This transcript is from an Oakdale Planning Commission meeting. Based on the context provided and the roll call, the Chair is **Dallas Pearson**. **Luke McClanahan** is the Planning Manager. Other Planning Commission members present include **Commissioner Toyoda**, **Commissioner Campbell**, **Commissioner Solorski**, **Commissioner Hagen**, and **Commissioner Willenbring**. Note: Timestamps are approximated based on the flow of the meeting as the original text did not include them. *** **[00:00:00] Dallas Pearson (Chair):** Yes, call to order the Planning Commission August 3rd, 2023. First order is the Pledge of Allegiance to the flag of the United States for all. Luke, if you could call roll call, please? **[00:00:15] Luke McClanahan (Planning Manager):** Yes. Pearson? **[00:00:16] Dallas Pearson (Chair):** Here. **[00:00:17] Luke McClanahan (Planning Manager):** Willenbring? **[00:00:18] Commissioner Willenbring:** Here. **[00:00:19] Luke McClanahan (Planning Manager):** Campbell? **[00:00:20] Commissioner Campbell:** Present. **[00:00:21] Luke McClanahan (Planning Manager):** Solorski? **[00:00:22] Commissioner Solorski:** Here. **[00:00:23] Luke McClanahan (Planning Manager):** Toyoda? **[00:00:24] Commissioner Toyoda:** Here. **[00:00:25] Luke McClanahan (Planning Manager):** Hagen? **[00:00:26] Commissioner Hagen:** Here. **[00:00:27] Dallas Pearson (Chair):** Approval of minutes. Does anyone have any changes or comments on the minutes? Seeing none, may I get a motion to accept as presented? Second would be Thomas... all in favor? **[00:00:35] Commissioners:** Aye. **[00:00:36] Dallas Pearson (Chair):** Any opposed? Thank you very much. Old business is none, so we’ll go straight to the new business: a public hearing for Sarah Noren at 6449 49th Street, conditional use permit for home occupation sale of hatching eggs and chicks. Luke, report please. **[00:00:50] Luke McClanahan (Planning Manager):** Thank you. So the location of this request is 6449 49th Street. If we can bring up the image on the screen in just a moment... this property is located west of Castle Elementary. And yes, the purpose here is for a conditional use permit for hatching eggs and selling chicks. The zoning of the site is R2, which is low-density residential. The surrounding neighborhood is residential. Just a little bit of request details: as mentioned, the applicant is seeking approval to conduct egg hatching operations and the sale of up to 100 chicks at a time. Currently, the applicant is allowed by the Police Department to have up to 50 chickens on the property and that is through a keeping of animals permit—and the Police Department did note that that is the most allowed for chickens of any property throughout the city. **[00:01:45] Commissioner Campbell:** Luke, can I ask a question? You said 50; I noticed in the report it says 25 though on page two. **[00:01:52] Luke McClanahan (Planning Manager):** Oh, did I say 50? Yes, 25. Thank you for correcting. So moving on, this image is the applicant’s site plan which on the north side there is—you can see 49th Street, the applicant’s home. There is an attached garage, there’s also a separate detached garage, a chicken run, and chicken coop. And just a little bit to the south there on the southern part of the property is an existing barn. Just a little bit of operational details about this use: the incubation period for eggs is approximately 21 days. So after the chickens hatch, they are relocated into a brooder, which is essentially a chicken nursery—a little containment area where they are kept warm—and that brooder is located in the attached garage. The applicant reports a "sweeter heater" will be used; this is an infrared radiant heat panel and that’s used for the chicks after they hatch. The applicant reports that this is a safer alternative to the standard heat lamps. Operations are seasonal with most hatchings occurring in the spring and summer time to allow the hens to rest. Hours of operation would be primarily in the evening and weekends. The incubator and brooder would be cleaned after the chicks leave those facilities and cleaning would be done with a vinegar solution. Once the chicks are hatched, customers would have one day to one week to pick them up, and it’s anticipated that customer traffic would add an additional five to six vehicle trips per month. Moving into the review criteria for this conditional use permit and according to the zoning ordinance, we have to follow very specific review criteria. Of the 13 review criteria, staff finds that four of the criteria are not met. The first point here is that the property is guided for low-density residential use for the city’s comprehensive plan and the zoning is R2. Staff finds that this use is agricultural in nature and it does not align with the comp plan guiding or the R2 zoning. The second point is that the use must be compatible with the intended character of the zoning district. The R2 district is intended to provide for low-density single-family detached dwellings and directly related complementary uses. Again, the use is agricultural in nature. The third point here is that the use must have minimal adverse environmental effects. When the city’s Development Review Committee reviewed this request, several concerns were raised about the agricultural nature, potential impacts from waste generation, and potential for attraction of rodents and other predatory animals. The fourth point is that noticeable nuisances including noises and odors cannot be produced. The fertilization of the eggs would require roosters, and although the city’s code of ordinances does not prohibit roosters, staff does have concerns about potential violations to the noise ordinance and odors. City staff did receive five written public comments from nearby residents; four are in support and one is in opposition. I did make a typo in the staff report regarding the resident’s address who is in opposition; the correct address is 6365 49th Street. In closing, staff finds the request does not meet the review criteria and recommends denial. However, if the commission is inclined to recommend approval, there are suggested conditions listed. This is a public hearing, and I believe the applicant is in attendance. **[00:06:00] Dallas Pearson (Chair):** I guess the first question I would ask is, in the process of hatching and producing the chicks, are they at any time outside of the garage or the building? Or is that better waiting for the applicant? **[00:06:15] Luke McClanahan (Planning Manager):** My understanding is no, but I would defer to the applicant for a more accurate answer. **[00:06:20] Commissioner Toyoda:** You had mentioned that the applicant currently is authorized up to 25 birds. Typically we allow no more than 10. Does the ordinance have a limit on the number of animals that can be kept? **[00:06:32] Luke McClanahan (Planning Manager):** No, and there’s a lot of discretion with the Police Department issuing that permit. **[00:06:37] Commissioner Toyoda:** They’d be using the chickens on site to produce eggs—are they going to be bringing in more chickens to do that? **[00:06:45] Luke McClanahan (Planning Manager):** I’ll have to defer to the applicant, but my understanding is that there is a rooster on the property already. **[00:06:52] Commissioner Campbell:** I had one question. When they did that permit, did they look at the square foot of the property itself, or is this just no matter how big your property is you can have up to 25 chickens? **[00:07:05] Luke McClanahan (Planning Manager):** It’s at the full discretion of the Police Department. They look at the entire property, the condition, the size. **[00:07:12] Commissioner Campbell:** One other question about the letter of opposition. What was the general theme of that? Was there a particular component or just in general? **[00:07:22] Luke McClanahan (Planning Manager):** They are opposed to just the commercial nature of this use. **[00:07:26] Commissioner Willenbring:** So if I read this right, they’re seasonal. If they’re doing six months out of the year, that means they’re going to have the excess chicks there for six weeks out of the year, correct? **[00:07:40] Luke McClanahan (Planning Manager):** Yes, it takes 21 days plus the seven days for pickup. So roughly six weeks. **[00:07:50] Commissioner Hagen:** Thank you for the report. My question is on those specific findings where staff felt that the applicant doesn't meet them—do you have data to back it up or is it a staff assessment? Second, is this guided by the zoning or the comp plan? **[00:08:15] Luke McClanahan (Planning Manager):** To the first question, the staff review is based on professional opinion and research. Do we have statistical data? I would say no, but the fire hazard concern comes from the Fire Chief, and waste disposal concerns come from the building official. To the second question, the zoning district provides more direction as to the stated purpose of the actual neighborhood. **[00:09:00] Commissioner Campbell:** He’s saying there were concerns about the waste. Currently, they’ve got 25 chickens, right? Everything issues with waste disposal with the 25 chickens right now? **[00:09:09] Luke McClanahan (Planning Manager):** Not to my awareness. **[00:09:11] Commissioner Campbell:** The other question I have was kind of along his side—most of your premises is based on it being an agricultural use versus a home use. At 25 chickens already, I’d venture to say we’ve already broken the agricultural point at that point. **[00:09:28] Commissioner Toyoda:** How many of those uses are currently present in the neighborhood? Just backyard chickens? **[00:09:35] Luke McClanahan (Planning Manager):** I don't have that information offhand. **[00:09:40] Dallas Pearson (Chair):** I personally know of at least two others. But to verify, these are supposed to be hobby type things. This isn't a business? **[00:09:55] Luke McClanahan (Planning Manager):** Exactly. What the applicant is requesting spills over into the need for a conditional use permit because of the retail sales and overall nature. **[00:10:15] Dallas Pearson (Chair):** Open the public hearing for Sarah Noren, 6449 49th Street. Is Miss Noren present? Would she like to come forward? **[00:10:25] Sarah Noren (Applicant):** Yes. First off, I’d like to thank the city of Oakdale and the staff. My name is Sarah Noren. Four and a half years ago I was in a car accident... this led to over a year of physical therapy. I found the chickens to be a huge success in my ability to adapt to my new life changes. They have taught me patience. I have read dozens of books and hundreds of articles. I do everything to ensure the safety, health, and happiness of my chickens. I now feel a huge sense of community. My passion for chickens is immense. They are my pets and I want to share this joy with others. With your permission, I would like to hatch and sell baby chicks as a small hobby. **[00:13:00] Dallas Pearson (Chair):** One question: is there a rooster currently there or would that be a new addition? **[00:13:05] Sarah Noren (Applicant):** I currently have a rooster, yes. To overcome the noise, there's what they call a no-crow collar. It muffles the crow. **[00:13:20] Commissioner Toyoda:** You have one rooster? **[00:13:22] Sarah Noren (Applicant):** With my flock of 25, I currently have three. I will be picking the best two to mate with my flock. There won't be additional roosters. **[00:13:40] Commissioner Willenbring:** And the location for the incubator and the brooder? **[00:13:44] Sarah Noren (Applicant):** The incubator will be in my house in a spare room. The brooder would be in my garage. I'm only hatching eggs if I have orders. I don't intend to pump out hundreds and hundreds of chickens. This is simply a hobby. **[00:14:30] Commissioner Campbell:** Just confirming, so everything is pre-order? **[00:14:34] Sarah Noren (Applicant):** Yes. **[00:14:50] Commissioner Toyoda:** I know some cities limit backyard chickens to just hens. Do you intend to cull your chicks? **[00:15:00] Sarah Noren (Applicant):** I don't have a way to sex them reliably. I would only be able to sell what they call "straight run"—males and females. If I'm stuck with extra roosters, I would use my resources to find a home or cull them. **[00:16:00] Commissioner Campbell:** How much additional waste would your monthly brooded chicks produce? **[00:16:05] Sarah Noren (Applicant):** Very little. I use grass clippings and wood shavings which go into my compost for my gardens. **[00:16:30] Dallas Pearson (Chair):** Quick question for Luke: she’s got a permit from the police for 25 chickens. If she goes into chicks, does she have to apply for another permit? **[00:16:40] Sarah Noren (Applicant):** This is specifically for the chicks. The police station guided me to Luke to pursue this. **[00:17:00] Commissioner Hagen:** How long are the chicks in the brooder? **[00:17:05] Sarah Noren (Applicant):** 21 days to hatch, then into the brooder for one day up to one week until the customer picks them up. **[00:18:30] Dallas Pearson (Chair):** At this time you’re just planning to do pickup, not shipping? **[00:18:35] Sarah Noren (Applicant):** No, I have no intentions to ship. **[00:18:45] Commissioner Willenbring:** How do you address salmonella? **[00:18:50] Sarah Noren (Applicant):** I regularly clean all my feeders and waters. My coop gets scraped down weekly. I use diatomaceous earth as a preventative measure. **[00:19:40] Dallas Pearson (Chair):** We're in virgin territory here. If we approve this, she could have this forever. We need to have some conditions here. What's the average order? **[00:20:10] Sarah Noren (Applicant):** I imagine it could be three to ten. **[00:20:30] Commissioner Willenbring:** You're asking for 100? **[00:20:35] Sarah Noren (Applicant):** I want the capacity to hatch up to 100 eggs if I have the orders. Most home incubators can do that. I have no intentions to mass-produce. **[00:21:45] Dallas Pearson (Chair):** Does anyone else wish to come up and make comment? **[00:21:55] Steve Savageo (Resident):** My name is Steve Savageo, I’m a neighbor on the east side. I want to say there’s no doubt about Sarah’s integrity, but when she first asked us, she told us there would absolutely never be roosters. Finding out tonight she has three is a complete surprise. I’m getting woken up at five o’clock in the morning. I am vehemently opposed to this. It’s going to be a disaster for my wife and I. **[00:23:15] Commissioner Toyoda:** Is there a fence between the yards? **[00:23:18] Steve Savageo (Resident):** They have a temporary piece of cheap rope stuff. **[00:23:45] Mark Mauer (Resident):** My name is Mark Mauer, I live across the street. We’re just basically concerned with how much traffic is going to be created. **[00:24:20] Janet Nordberg (Resident):** My name is Janet Nordberg, I am their backyard neighbor. The chickens cause absolutely no trouble. There is no smell, no waste problems. I 150,000 percent think this should be approved. **[00:24:50] Jason Noren (Applicant's Husband):** I’m Jason Noren. I wanted to clarify the fence issue. There is a temporary fence 10 to 15 feet back from the yard line. I plan to submit a permit to put up a permanent fence in the next week or so. **[00:25:30] Dallas Pearson (Chair):** Anyone else? Seeing none, I close the public hearing. Luke, if we were to grant this, what would be the requirements? **[00:25:45] Luke McClanahan (Planning Manager):** It depends on if you want to uphold staff's suggested conditions. If any conditions are violated, the CUP would be brought back to the City Council for revocation. **[00:26:10] Dallas Pearson (Chair):** I noticed nothing about noise mentioned in the conditions. **[00:26:15] Luke McClanahan (Planning Manager):** The city has a separate noise ordinance handled by the Police Department, but you could tie noise violations specifically to this permit. **[00:26:40] Commissioner Hagen:** I think we need to encourage small business owners. I support this as long as we make it by appointment only and within the noise ordinance. **[00:27:30] Commissioner Campbell:** I agree. The traffic increase is relatively insignificant. I’m going to support it. **[00:28:10] Commissioner Toyoda:** I look at the two states—current versus adding the hatchlings. I’m not convinced I see any difference. I’m going to be supporting the allowance of this. **[00:29:15] Commissioner Toyoda:** I do think we need to look at an ordinance regarding a cap on roosters in the future, though. **[00:29:35] Commissioner Toyoda:** I want to say, as their neighbor, we love the chickens. I hope the noise situation for Steve can be resolved. **[00:30:15] Commissioner Solorski:** I appreciate the comments, but I am not in support of it. It’s not following the city comprehensive plan. This is an agricultural issue in a residential area. **[00:30:40] Dallas Pearson (Chair):** I too am not, just because it is out of what it was zoned for. It could snowball. **[00:31:00] Commissioner Campbell:** I disagree. How can it snowball if we’re capping the number of chicks? If she’s not in compliance, there will be a complaint. **[00:32:30] Commissioner Campbell:** I’ll motion to recommend approval with conditions: applicant limited to no more than 100 egg hatchings at a given time by order, and compliance with the noise ordinance. **[00:33:00] Commissioner Toyoda:** Second. **[00:33:05] Dallas Pearson (Chair):** Roll call please. **[00:33:07] Luke McClanahan (Planning Manager):** Pearson? **[00:33:08] Dallas Pearson (Chair):** Nay. **[00:33:09] Luke McClanahan (Planning Manager):** Willenbring? **[00:33:10] Commissioner Willenbring:** Yay. **[00:33:11] Luke McClanahan (Planning Manager):** Campbell? **[00:33:12] Commissioner Campbell:** Yay. **[00:33:13] Luke McClanahan (Planning Manager):** Solorski? **[00:33:14] Commissioner Solorski:** Nay. **[00:33:15] Luke McClanahan (Planning Manager):** Toyoda? **[00:33:16] Commissioner Toyoda:** Yay. **[00:33:17] Luke McClanahan (Planning Manager):** McCauley? **[00:33:18] Commissioner McCauley:** Nay. **[00:33:19] Luke McClanahan (Planning Manager):** Hagen? **[00:33:20] Commissioner Hagen:** Yay. **[00:33:22] Dallas Pearson (Chair):** It passes. Thank you. Next order of business: Carla Munson, 7065 43rd Street North, conditional use permit for additional accessory structure. **[00:33:35] Max (City Staff):** Thank you. This request originates in 2021 with code enforcement regarding a shed constructed without appropriate permits. In the R4 district, homeowners are allowed one accessory structure by right. A second was built without permits. Staff finds the criteria satisfied and recommends approval. **[00:35:10] Commissioner Campbell:** So the shed is already built? Does she get charged a double permit fee? **[00:35:20] Max (City Staff):** No, the standard fee. **[00:35:45] Commissioner Hagen:** Is there a size limit? **[00:35:50] Luke McClanahan (Planning Manager):** The city doesn't charge for a building permit for structures under 200 square feet, but a CUP is still triggered for having a second structure. **[00:36:30] Dallas Pearson (Chair):** Open public hearing. **[00:36:35] Carla Munson (Applicant):** I have the shed... one is for gardening and snowmobiles, the other is for children’s toys so they are safe from the hazard materials. **[00:37:15] Chandra (Public):** I am Carla’s best friend. The first shed was gardening stuff, the second is kid-friendly. **[00:37:45] Unnamed Resident:** I live at 4262 Hallmark. Their house faces 43rd. The toys are all over the yard, not in the shed. It's a mess. **[00:38:30] Dallas Pearson (Chair):** Close public hearing. **[00:38:40] Commissioner Hagen:** We’re here to discuss the number of buildings. The condition of the yard is a code enforcement issue. **[00:39:15] Commissioner Campbell:** The shed is the least offensive thing I see there. I’ll motion to recommend approval. **[00:39:30] Commissioner Toyoda:** Second. All in favor? Aye. **[00:39:45] Dallas Pearson (Chair):** Motion passes. Moving on to the PUD Amendment for JB Vang Hudson Boulevard Apartments. **[00:40:00] Luke McClanahan (Planning Manager):** This is for a 130-unit apartment building. Up to 25% of units would be reserved for individuals receiving Integrated Community Services (ICS). The applicant is requesting 58 units per acre where 50 is the max. They are also asking for a reduced rear yard setback. Staff recommends approval with conditions, including that the building height should be met in the rear through a "step down" design. **[00:45:00] Commissioner Campbell:** I’m not a fan of this shared access condition. It feels like a taking without compensation to the applicant for the benefit of the neighbor. **[00:46:15] Justin (JB Vang/Developer):** I’m Justin with JB Vang. The ICS program is a contract the owner will have to service those individuals. We would be happy to work with Luke on the setback requirement on the northwest side. **[00:48:00] Commissioner Toyoda:** I’ll make a motion to recommend approval of the PUD preliminary and final site plan. **[00:48:30] Commissioner Campbell:** Second. All in favor? Aye. **[00:49:00] Dallas Pearson (Chair):** Planning and development update. **[00:49:10] Luke McClanahan (Planning Manager):** Expect a September meeting for a CUP and the Glenbrook small area plan. **[00:49:25] Dallas Pearson (Chair):** Council update from Council Member Engebretson? **[00:49:30] Council Member Engebretson:** Nothing to report. I'm extremely tired. **[00:49:40] Dallas Pearson (Chair):** Motion for adjournment? **[00:49:45] Commissioner Campbell:** So moved. **[00:49:50] Commissioner Toyoda:** Second. Meeting adjourned.