I can't wear my jacket in the sub >> here. Why don't I move over here? >> Do you have to come up to the kids? >> I think we had two folks from that console. >> Yeah, that's >> I just came to watch. >> Can't you believe he did that? >> On brand for me. Schmidt's not here, >> sweet line, >> you come down here unless you're staying for the whole meeting. >> Um >> Oh, maybe not. >> You're welcome to stay. All are welcome. >> Don't stay home. >> Eat dinner. >> It's uh it's bachelor night, so my wife is going to be at the neighbor's house with her girlfriend. So, I've got nowhere to be. Kids are at grandma's. >> Oh, that's nice. >> Yeah, we've been piloting that program. Um, >> kiddos are going to grandma's house on the days that we work because both of us get home around 6:37 anyway. >> So, by that time, it's like, okay, let's grab something to eat and put the kids to bed. >> Yeah. >> So, we didn't really spend that much time with them anyway on a work day, unfortunately. So, >> makes sense. >> Laura, I saw your husband at the Victoria Lions tournament. >> Yes. Saturday. Very nostalgic going there. >> Yeah. >> I got out. >> Oh, were you playing? >> No. No. >> I thought you went out like >> No, but it's easy to fall into fun habits there, right? >> It is 5:30 and we got a hefty agenda. So, I will call this work session to order from Monday, July 21st. Um, first we have the city manager report. Mr. Uh, mayor and council, if it you okay, I'd like to push the city manager's report to the end so we can just in case we get our guest for council, we can also get Deputy Nelson uh on the road. >> Sounds good. >> It sounds like they don't want you here. >> Okay. Uh, any council requests? >> Hearing none. Okay, then it's up to you, Deputy Nelson. Carver County Sheriff's Department. What's going on in Carver? >> Excellent. Um, you know, for the month of June, not a whole lot. As you see in my weekly reports, you know, we we kind of average right around that, you know, maybe five or six report calls most weeks types of things. And when I say report calls, it's the ones that were required to make reports on type AB offenses on criminal matters. And sometimes we'll make reports for things that maybe require a bit more explaining, even if it's not a criminal matter, just might be a little bit more questionable. Um, nothing really stands out there from the June report. Um, our traffic numbers, I believe, were a little bit better than our prior month. So, I'm happy to see that. I would still get on my team a little bit about getting those numbers up. I'm partly to blame for that, too. Our numbers could be better in my opinion. I think we can get on um less JCP traffic stops, more collector streets, that type of stuff. I've been really trying to get on the guys about getting down here and getting some stops in front of things. Um, being a little bit more visible for our local population. Um, steamboat day is planning. I'm continuing that still. I'm in conversations with a number of people just trying to finalize what we need from the sheriff's office. Um, with that coming up quickly, we want to make sure that we have our shifts posted so we get that adequately covered. >> Thank you. >> Um, appreciate that. >> I didn't receive any direct touch of truck or vehicle fair feedback. Um, other than from my deputy saying, you know, hey, it went well. I don't know if anybody else has heard anything. >> I stopped by. It looked great, but you guys were outshined by a fire truck that had to leave in the middle of the event. >> Yeah, I believe I believe Logan was there after his shift, so I don't think he had to leave. So, at least he got to stay and and be present for the whole event. So, >> apparently leaving is a big job. >> You get to turn. >> Yeah. Um I have kind of talked with a number of city staff uh most notably some public works guys uh regarding like vandalism and some other issues at like our parks. Um most recently Lions Park had some small graffiti and some fireworks charring. >> Um doesn't sound like there's any cameras up there and there maybe hasn't been for some time. Is that that's something that would really help us, you know, work forward and try to identify some of the culprits that are maybe doing this? I know um is that Iron Ironwood or Yeah, Ironwood Park is also another kind of hot spot for some activity that having some cameras out there would be especially helpful for our uh investigative process. >> Are you having the uh sheriff when they're in town then check all the parks because Lions has always been a hot spot because of the way the shelter is tucked back there like that and the amount of homes that are pretty close right there. I mean, but Bluff is also another one that's tucked back there, too. So yeah, they're all unfortunately pretty well off the beaten path or off the road from at least a drive by. You actually have to enter those parks. So um something I've definitely passed on to my twoight guys and I hope that they're getting after that a little bit. Um >> can I ask a quick question? Can you remind me why we don't have a camera? >> It's primarily access to technology. Uh a number of years ago we tried a um a cellularbased technology and um it wasn't reliable and so that with the combination of the cost we discontinued that so we >> when you say a number of years ago how many >> two okay >> can I just if we want to look into this like we have cameras um and they're ones that like we bought off Amazon and I think it's three or $400 for like I don't know three of them or whatever and you it there's no payment after that. You just monitor and it comes to your phone like you just have the app on your phone and we don't pay like a yearly or monthly thing for it. >> It's hooked up to your home's Wi-Fi. >> Um yes it is hooked up to Wi-Fi. So that's the issue. >> Yeah. >> So is it worth running out there? I mean, I'm sure the city has some subscriber with each of the three carriers because there there has been some improvement done in the that might make that work better. Before we go buy anything, I can show you how to put each carrier phone into a test mode and that'll give you the DB level at that site. That should give you some a pretty good idea of what to expect. >> Not I mean just >> I don't know what DB level. >> Sorry. Sorry. Yes. Now the what the uh what the actual signal strength is versus um you know the bars on your phone. >> Okay. >> Yeah. So it's the engineering information about what's present in that site for all the carriers. Um well could be this is a topic that Andrew and I haven't connected on yet. So this was uh Chad Shell kind of worked on that. So, I think with Andrew on board, uh, the two of us and Paul can talk about, uh, some alternatives and maybe take another swing at it. So, >> the only reason I bring that up is I know that the carriers have added capacity and spectrum at those sites. >> I mean, we do have fiber into the wellhouse and lions, I'm imagining, right? >> Talking about lions. Are we talking about community? lines >> probably. Yeah. Or final. >> So, there's probably a way to do that. Uh we just haven't solved it. >> And it it hasn't been, you know, egregious by any means, but it just, you know, small vandalism over time. Maybe it just kind of increases and maybe it's the same people doing it every time. >> We have we have had it over the many years a lot. And it I'm wondering usually if I'm thinking >> don't we get another wave of it right before school starts again? It's when school's out and I think right before school starts. So if you could just maybe let your deputy or your other folks know again >> to make their swings through the park locations. >> Yeah. And I think I think these last couple that I have gotten were weekend hours too. So, week nights, um, couple gravel pit calls that I've gotten recently. Actually, I hadn't gotten any for a while, but we got some trespassers at the gravel pit again that, um, Mueller has let us know about. So, we've been trying to track those down as we receive them. But, um, that just continues to be a bit of a hot spot for explorers of the area. So, um, >> young explorers from what the Facebook post made it sound like. >> Yeah, exactly. It's And most of them. Yeah. And credit to Mueller, they have a really nice camera on their dredge where most of the kids convergate at and it's just I mean it's like the one at the gas station which just a pure face shot as you walk up to them. >> It's not. >> Unfortunately though, like it's it's still like this process of trying to figure out whose kid is this, you know? So, >> a lot of times we get some help from the community and and other people. Hey, do you know who this is? But um they're taking it pretty seriously. We're issuing citations, criminal trespass citations for people that we do identify. So, >> while we're on this topic, Brent, I'd like to in a future meeting get an update on >> I believe we have cameras on the walking path, the outpass one. Not >> I thought we did something because we really saw an improvement like for a while there was >> no um that was really a specific challenge. We got cost and it was I think in the neighborhood of like $20,000 >> uh specifically because they're uh there was like an antenna relay system and they couldn't get line of sight. >> Okay. >> So um >> but maybe then that type of update I'm sure we actually had cameras in there. >> No. >> Okay. Um, other than that, I don't really have anything else. If anybody else sees anything in my reports or had seen anything, >> I have a question for you. So, would you like a couple numbers are they going up at Heartwell Heartwell? >> I mean, and we'll say crossing specifically. It seems like there's been more coming in. >> We've been pretty busy there lately. It usually >> come on in. >> Yeah, we've taken a number of calls there lately. It usually revolves around certain residents like maybe somebody who has some bad interactions with us moves in and then for a you know a short while there we might have a number of contacts with them until the situation either gets resolved fixed or they get moved out or something. >> Okay. >> Um nothing that has been happening. There's been a couple arrests there in the last month but nothing jumps out at me as being like really crazy call or anything that uh wasn't really alarming. It was pretty run-of-the-mill type things. Okay. So, um, but yeah, definitely one of our higher call volume areas. >> Um, I have a couple questions. Earlier this year, we put a lot of thought into a parking. Have you written any tickets for people parking in the parks or parking on the street for days? >> I've never I I personally can't recall writing a ticket or actually I did write one or two. I memory is a bit foggy. I know I warned a lot of people as soon as it came out because it gave me a little bit more teeth as far as like, hey, time to move. Here's your warning and next time the ticket. >> Um, I could actually say that to people now and be confident that I could follow through with it. So, I think it's gotten a number of people to at least move their cars when I've requested that it, you know, it comes up, people report it and let us know, hey, this car has been here for a long time. Okay, I'll come by. I'll warn it and then I can actually follow through on the tag if I need to. Um, as far as parks go, I haven't gotten any calls about parks. I did go after a lot of cars at the Metro Transit Station right away. I know that was kind of a hot spot. We had some long-term people parking there, and I actually towed a few cars out of there, too. So, >> um, but as as of like other guys, I know a few other guys have written some parking citations, but it hasn't really been >> a lot of self-generated stuff. It's it's more the ordinance has really helped us more with like a citizen complaint side of things because when people do complain in the past it was a lot of like sorry like we can ask them to move but we don't really have anything to follow through with here. >> Yeah. I think car station is where I notice them the most and I'm not driving through there at 3 in the morning so I don't know if they're gone by that time. Uh my other question was you mentioned you're watching speed and thank you for that but I think like and just to reiterate what you said I think folks know the conditions where they live. So we get a lot of folks especially on those streets or the busier streets but Mount Hope Spring Creek Drive fourth street like you name it. So appreciate you giving a look. Yeah, fourth street can be difficult at times um just with kind of the general curviness of it and where cars are coming and how we have to whip around on them. Six streets always I mean if I want traffic stops, Six Street's going to give them to me. Most people will go >> 40 miles an hour on that all the time. Unfortunately, no matter how many times I hide around the corner by the block wall. So, um >> I saw you there. >> I'm only going 31. So, >> get her for 31. >> Definitely still something we're definitely keeping an eye on. But I've Yeah, I've reminded some of the other guys like, "Hey, JCP stops are good." Um, but also get in on some of those actual city streets, too. So, >> awesome. Any other questions? >> Okay, thank you. Enjoy your night. >> Excellent. Thanks. Thank you very much. >> Okay. Um up next we have um the future bus transit discussion with Metro Transit if you're kicking it off. >> Yeah, thank you. Mayor Council like to welcome Charles Carlson uh the executive director with uh Metropolitan Transit Service Transportation Services and uh Bradley Bobett, a senior planner also with Met Council. Uh so um just a little bit of background for every or actually before we get into that um just so uh Charles and Bradley know everybody in the room. Christy, would you mind starting off and just go around introducing ourselves? >> My name is Christy Mock and I'm a city council member. My name is Courtney Johnson. I'm the mayor. Welcome. >> Andrew Simmons, public services director. >> Lori S, one of the other council members. Kayla Pascal, council member. >> Eric Bersman, council member. And I also sit on the southwest transit board. Okay. Lyn Shy, finance director. >> Vicky Sunsean, city clerk. >> All right. So, just kind of before I turn it over to Charles and Bradley, just wanted to kind of um give a little bit of of a brief background of where we've been at with trans transit. Uh so, since 2015, the city's operated uh with Southwest Transit operating bus service to uh areas of Minneapolis. Um that's it started out as a federal grant uh for operations. it became defederalized, but Metro Transit has been involved in kind of how that's been put together frankly for the last uh decade. Uh based on where we're seeing uh grant funds going, we're expecting to conclude service uh for grant operated service for bus service. And so this is part of an ongoing conversation. Remember Erin Smith was at the last work session kind of uh setting the stage for this. We're having Metro Transit come out here uh tonight to kind of provide what I call kind of a book report or kind of a research project on what they do and how they do it. And then our kind of the third part of this is bringing out Southwest transit and talking about what they do so that uh the city council set up to make some long-term decisions as it relates to transit. And so uh Erin and I have had a conversation with Bradley and Charles related to this. So the outline here tonight, the council can take this uh in any direction you want to as the discussion continues. Uh but what we've asked Charles and Bradley to talk about is one an overview of the services that are provided in the metro area by Metro Transit and then two how that intersects with a history and overview of what's called optouts or subur suburban rate providers. So not just Southwest transit but there's I think Minnesota Valley, Burnsville, etc. have different uh Plymouth have different service models. Uh the background and kind of financial backbone of uh the transit taxing district, how that works, kind of some basics of the the financing piece uh for the viability of future bus service in Carver. And then finally, the viability and funding opportunities related to microtransit. So that's the southwest prime of this area, but there are other models that are being explored throughout the metro. And then finally, any questions that the council has. So with that, I'll turn it over to Charles and Bradley. Thank you. >> Well, thank you. Uh thank you, mayor and council members. Glad to be here. Um we're glad we were second on the agenda because we left Minneapolis at 4:15 and the 212 construction. So >> when we left it said seven minutes extra and then it turned out to be 39 minutes extra. So but we're here and uh just in time. So thanks for having us. >> Um so yeah we'll we'll we'll talk about all all those various things but uh you know I think I have some notes for myself. This could become more of a memo for you at some point but figured we'd uh we'd kind of explore this a little bit through conversation first. So uh within the Met Council there are two transit operating divisions. Uh one is Metroransit and the other is called Metropolitan Transportation Services and that's where we're from is is the second division. In that division we do contracted transit service. So we operate microransit in uh the metro transit service area. We operate metroobility. We operate Transit Link which is a service uh that serves Carver that we'll talk about. Um we also in in a separate role within MTS serve as the planning organization for transportation in the city. So we're the fedally designated planning organization that does uh work to manage the region's longrange transportation plan. We assembled a list of projects uh that gets published as the as the transportation improvement program or the TIP and some other uh long range planning type roles. We're here in kind of an intersection of those of those things. Um so we're here as the transit experts for the region. We're here as the planning role, but we're also here from an operational role. So it's it's a little bit of a unique sit situation in that we have that all concentrated in one department. uh but it isn't the main transit operator which is Metro Transit or we work very closely with Metro Transit. So that's one distinction within that council um for who we are. So within uh within our plan uh within the transit investment plan that um that Bradley manages uh we use market areas. Uh so we we do um we identify the region and kind of identify transit market areas. uh that's based on population and employment density. It's based on automobile ownership and availability and it's based on intersection density. And from that we create sort of a composite index of what types of transit services make sense where. Um so Carver is right on the border between what's called market area 4 and market area 5. The difference between those essentially being where it makes sense to run commuter express service or not. Uh and in market area five generally it would just be demand response dialer ride type service. We'll talk about we'll talk about that. Um market area four generally could you know could support express bus type service. All of these the plan recognizes are determined on a case- by case basis, but the market area guidance sort of tells us what may or may not make sense. The actual experience of operating it is something we have in Carter and that that is um you know a lot more instructive uh for for how we proceed. >> Is there a population size that brings you from three to four and on? >> It's more about density of population. Um, so we're doing the analysis at a pretty granular level. It's a census block group. So it's the size of about a neighborhood. >> Okay. >> Um, and so you know when you look at like the map that's on Charles paper there, those are all kind of conglomerated together from a bunch of smaller spaces and it's I have to recall the actual figure from the plan. We we analyze like what's the median kind of population density. Um if I'm remembering market area two, which is kind of more like Richfield, kind of south Minneapolis, that's like 11 people in anchor. Um and then it goes down from there. I'd have I didn't look it up real quick while we're talking. >> We can follow up on >> Yeah. So cars are the part of this equation. How many people operate vehicles? >> Yeah. >> Right. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah. So if you own if you own a bunch of cars, you're very likely to use them. If you don't own a car, you're unlikely to use it. If you're if you don't own a car, you're more likely to take transit. It it is more, you know, market areas one, two, and three are sort of the the key application of a lot of planning decisions. When we get into the more express areas, it to a certain extent becomes about what's the minimum mass for a service to make sense. And in the park and ride, in the pre-COVID park and ride planning days, it was a couple hundred cars. So, a couple hundred cars worth of people wanting to go to the same place at about the same time was the formula. Um, and I think that's why the Carver parking ride is roughly 400 spaces. It was sort of built around this idea that that's that's how you get to the level of a frequent all day service or a frequent peak service is uh a few hundred people going. If you have a a larger facility closer, you often can operate more frequent service and then that has sort of a gravity effect. It pulls uh folks to slightly closer in. So going to East Creek, going to the other Southwest stations, it's probably a lot of what's happening uh because a higher level of service can be provided because there's more people. So it's that's sort of those are sort of the the planning tensions that that played out. It's been very different the last five years. Uh so a lot of the things that worked 5 years ago don't really work anymore. It's more in Metro Transit's plans and and I can't speak to Southwest's plans. Uh but it's pushed more toward uh concentrating parking right at facilities uh concentrating service at larger facilities that people drive to. uh building new facilities was more about relieving over capacity issues at those facilities that are a little bit closer in. That no longer exists because of the way that demand has changed in the last few years. So it's long way of saying it's all sort of individual case by case. I think the experience we've seen is that there's not a ton of demand especially the last you know since since co uh but services continue to be available but generally it involves across the region not just here driving a little further to location that has more frequent peak service. Uh what we do operate is transit link. Uh so that is a shared ride uh service that uh serves the parts of the of the metro area that don't have regular route transit uh where it's infrequent or unavailable. Uh so it's it's a reservationbased dialeride system. Uh it operates on weekdays from 6:00 a.m. to 7:00 p.m. Uh we operate it in in uh MTS. Uh but in our version we are actually partnered with Carver and Scott counties uh to operate it as one uh one service uh that they call Smart Link um that operates in both Carver and Scott. >> Can I ask the clarifying question? So is Transit Link and Smart Link the same thing? >> Same thing. Yeah, it's sort of the the flavor of Transit Link that Scott brands with Carver. Uh we operate through intergovernmental agreement to Scott County. Carver County pays Scott County to include uh some of the services here, but a lot of our of our funding with Scott is actually both Carver and Scott. So that's that's how we fund it. Um there have been about a thousand rides from Carver uh home addresses on Transit Link in the last 18 months. Uh so >> colony or city? >> Uh city city. So I'm just talking city of Carver about a thousand rides >> right around a thousand in 18 months. So 50 to 80 a month. There's some seasonality. Um 90 95% of that is from three users. Uh so one one person accounts for about half of those rides. Um I don't know who it is. I don't know where they're coming from. I don't know where they're going. But just to give you a flavor of the the usage, uh it's very useful to a few people is um the the current condition of it. So if there's ideas of how we can make it more useful, it's certainly something we welcome. Uh we talked with Carver County uh about a year ago about you know what are the uh as as we had new sales tax money as they had new sales tax money that is available for transit services you know what locally uh within you know at the county level uh would be useful. Um they identified that uh you know maybe night or weekend hours on transit link would help. Uh but uh the nearest term thing was expanding a one day a week circulator route uh between Waconia and Norwood Young America. Uh so that's something we implemented in partnership with them based on that based on the identity that launched last October. >> What's the wrership on that? >> I'm not sure. Um we've heard that, you know, it's something people are interested in. We have a low fair on it. It's a $1 fair compared to um you know, roughly $4 for for regular transit link. But the idea was that people um to do shopping and things like that um had they couldn't do that in Norwood or America anymore and going to Wakonia was the was the answer we were able to come up with. >> Are there restrictions on Smart Link? Like it's not being utilized out here. Why? >> Yeah, I mean it's a >> Is it just weekdays? >> You it's it's a weekday service. You reserve it um you reserve it ahead of time. Um if if there's a fixed route solution available for your trip, it will connect you to fixed route. Uh so if you called and you wanted to go down downtown Minneapolis, they would bring you to a Southwest Transit Hub and you'd connect. >> If you were going to Cologne, they would bring you to Cologne. >> Yeah. >> Um I >> And you'll go wherever. You'll take me from my home. >> Yep. Yep. It's the grocery store. It's general public. Uh it's um it's for anybody. It's an accessible vehicle. Yeah. I think they're It's not an on demand service like Southwest Prime is. Okay. >> Um so that you know that could be a factor in it. Um >> tell me what that means to >> you would >> I know what on demand means but like >> yeah you would reserve your trip you know by calling somebody and setting up your trip or um >> how far in advance >> um great question. I think one there is some same day service availability but generally it's it's up to a week ahead of time you can schedule a ride. You're typically people are typically scheduling 24 hours to a week in advance, >> right? >> Yeah. >> So for So Southwest Prime is subsidized by us, the city. Transit Link is subsidized by the county. >> It's funded by the state. >> State motor vehicle sales tax funds. >> Okay. So the counties don't kick in. >> Uh the counties have bought up services. So for example, Scott County operates weekend service because they paid. So we operate a base level of service and then they paid county money to increase uh the level of service. >> Okay. So they're county property taxes. Okay. This cities don't pay directly into any of those. >> No. No. This this is this is a regionally operated service that's funded with state funds. >> Okay. >> Is it a revelation to us that there is no special need required to use this? I thought there was too. >> Yes. For me it is. >> Yeah. So it's a general public service. I'm thinking of Metro Mobility and there is a need for that but I >> for me it's a surprise that it's out there and available to our residents. I >> Yeah, we will follow up with some additional information. >> It is an available service. You know, I thinking the traffic >> when it when it comes down to it, you know, a lot of times if folks have a car available, it might just they might find it more convenient um to use the car. >> Yeah. But we have a high level of, >> you know, not everybody does that. And >> we have a high level of prime usage in our community for which we we the city pays >> Yep. >> three4ers of that cost right now of those prices. We're anticipating to double if not triple. So like if we could say, "Hey, we've got another option for you." >> Yep. Um, did you mention that Scott County kind of subsidizes and puts the weekend service into play through their financing of those costs? Has Carver County ever expressed any interest in >> uh what we've done so far has been to introduce that circulator route? >> Okay. But that's it. >> And that's only been going since last year, you said. >> Correct. >> Okay. >> Correct. >> Um, so yeah, so the city leads two services as you know. Uh there's the there's the grant funded express bus service where Southwest is extended and there's the Southwest Prime that uh that so the grant funding is running out. Southwest Prime continues as I understand that's supported by your general fund levy and then you contract with Southwest for that. So Southwest just to just to clarify um Southwest is a uh joint powers board of uh Eden Prairie Chaza and Chanhassen. uh they were permitted in the 1980s uh when the transit system was almost exclusively funded by property taxes uh the they were granted permission to like remove themselves from uh the the metransit's predecessor system the the MTC and operate their own transit service and so 12 cities altogether uh did that so Plymouth Maple Grove these three cities and then a number in Scott Dakota Um and you know which operate as MBTA. Southwest transit is you know convenient way to think about it is that's Chanhassen, Chesca and Eden Prairie operating as cities together. Um it's so so they formed a transit agency of their joint powers as given to them by the legislature in the 80s. Um since then property tax is no longer the basis for funding. uh it's it's state motor vehicle sales tax, it's federal revenue, it's uh regional sales and use tax. Um so the the window for that opting out really closed in the 80s and so we we work with these other transit providers that are uh comprised of joint powers of those cities that that have that. Um so certainly they're um they've got discretion in how they operate. uh we are the funer of them as the council uh through a mix of uh primarily motor vehicle sales tax but also the sales and use tax u federal funds and some local property levy funds. We're going through a process right now of how we allocate funds amongst transit providers between the council and um the 12 replacement services. So that's that's a work in progress that is underway. Might be a convenient time to switch to talk about the transit taxing district. >> Sounds good. >> So in state law, the council has discretion to extend service beyond the taxing district boundaries. um but has to determine you know how uh the law is how we deem necessary and advisable uh basically to get compensated for the cost of that service if it's going beyond the uh transit uh taxing district boundary. Um as you know Carver's not in it is that's where the that's where the the border is here. um we can't levy that tax unless a city not in it uh have agreed with us on a service expansion plan. And so kind of the basic process of how it would work is we'd have some conversations like this one. Uh the city and council would uh decide and agree on a what a plan might look like. You would request you would petition us to include be included in the in the debt service levy. Uh so the taxing district um is a capital debt service levy. It's not used for operations. We can only we can't we can't spend that levy money on anything but debt service. Uh so every other year we get permission from the legislature to issue transit bonds. uh we then levy this uh debt service across across the you know the better part of the Twin Cities population uh to service that debt. Uh so you would ask us to include that. I think normally we'd need to know by roughly June 1st but we haven't we haven't nailed that down for this conversation if it's something that remains of interest but certainly we would um we would then include you in our within our proposed levy. We tell the department of revenue how much we're levying and where we're levying it and then they figure out how much each um you know each each property and and city owes. Uh we would then execute a funding agreement over whatever transit service uh we would be agreeing to and then uh if you're if it's a situation where we're providing funding to you and you're hiring Southwest for example, you would then go hire Southwest to do that. Um, it probably would make the most sense for us to work with the city and the city to work with its provider, whether that's us or Southwest or somebody else, uh, versus us sort of managing a side service for you on your behalf, just because it it could get kind of complicated in terms of the numbers behind this. So, so the overall process is you ask us to extend the tax levy, we would do that and then we have some agreement for for what that means for you. you know what is the funding source because it's capital only. Most likely it's not that like the council would give you some other funding source. Perhaps it'd be equivalent to what we levy in your in your city and then that would augment transit link that we provide and you know whatever else you'd like to do. Um in terms of amounts uh Carver in 2024 had what just over 1 billion in taxable market value. So that's a big milestone. You're growing very quickly. The numbers were very different when this was looked at about 10 years ago. Um >> very >> that is uh about 210 of a percent of the region's taxable market value. Um our debt service levy is about 55.3 million in in 2025. So on that on that level it's around a 100,000 annually uh that we would be levying. Um but that may be a whole region metric. Um when we compare the rate that we that we so our average that we use and I'll get to the Carver average in a second, a third a $300,000 home would see about a $47 tax impact from the from the transit levy. Um so at a billion dollars of tax capacity, that's about 150,000. So, this is all to say I don't know the specific number, but it's somewhere north of 100,000, probably as much as 150,000 that would be levied in Carver. And on your uh per year 2025 city budget, the $425,000 average home uh would correspond to about $67 where this stands. >> Um now, >> what's the home price on that one that you use? >> 425. That's what I use as the taxable value. The market value is a little bit higher with exclusions. >> Um, >> so can I just make sure I've got this straight. So we say potentially say we are interested in y >> joining the met the taxing district. We've got a plan where it says we're going to do routes here there and the other place and then the value that we get in ter like I guess my question is are there any extra other fees that we pay? >> Yeah. you for that service. >> It it I mean it really depends on what the structure is. I mean kind of a hypothetical is we'll extend this tax into Carver and then we'll grant you funds equivalent to that. >> Okay. >> And then and then you can only use it on transit services but you know but feel free to define those services. We'll write down what that is. >> We would potentially get1 to $150,000 worth of transit services. >> Yep. Yep. >> Is it only money derived from that or are there other sources of money, federal monies? Is there anything else that makes that a larger pot of money to us? >> Yeah. Um I mean that's that it it is a possibility. That's how we've approached it elsewhere. I think the difference is that transit link is is the service we otherwise provide. So that's sort of the the motor vehicle sales tax funds. Um in other cities that have joined the district, it's been combined with some motor vehicle sales tax but for a very specific service plan. And now actually most of those have uh ended. >> True. >> Uh so uh Columbus, Forest Lake, and Maple Plane joined Bay years ago. They had fixed route service for a while. Those routes were no longer viable. They're still in the taxing district. Uh but there isn't service uh fixed route service in those communities uh because it it was really based on, you know, the viability of that fixed route service. Uh so it those were augmented by other funds. This this is all to say based on the council's market area uh potential and based on the history of of service here. What would be guided regionally is service like transit link. Uh what would be above that would come into the picture from this from this transit taxing district conversation. The other thing I'll add about that is that joining the district doesn't net additional funds. it only spreads our levy across a bigger area. Uh so the dedication of funds through joining the taxing district is a reduction in otherwise available council funds because we're you know so it's a slight redu it's a tiny reduction in everybody's property taxes to service this debt uh and dedicate equivalent funds to that uh to Carver. Uh so it doesn't create more money. uh instead the council, you know, might entertain dedicating a portion of funds equivalent to the levy uh as um the exchange. >> I don't know if we can answer this question, but let's say we we do this and you said we would set up a separate relationship with Southwest Transit by way of doing this. How does that impact Southwest Transit or does it beyond just that money going to them? because now they're picking up additional population. Does it give them revenue coming from other sources? >> Yeah. So, when they operate transit service, uh they report to the federal government and would earn uh earn funds based on the service miles. So, every every mile of service they operate for car related service, they would get um somewhere on the order of 70 cents. >> That includes prime of federal funds including for including for prime >> the net gain of them is more than the 150 or 100,000 we would be directing >> um potentially you know depending on the depending on the service and how it's how it's factored in but the council doesn't receive those funds southwest would receive it as the provider we do receive funds for transit links miles that we would operate regionally um but that's um you know that that helps us with the capital cost of that service. >> Um, >> oh, sorry, Brett. Could you remind me what we spend about approximately on crime each year? >> Uh, we were budgeting about $50,000. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> So, you used I think it was Maple Plane as an example of they're in the taxing district, but they don't have service. >> Correct. Any longer? >> So, once we're in, we can't get out of the taxing district. >> Well, it's a little more complicated than that because we would have a service agreement that relates to the tax. >> Okay. Um, these changes just became permanent a month or two ago in terms of those other routes that had been suspended for several years, but were suspended, not terminated. Now they're terminated. So, some of those conversations could begin. They still have the infrastructure associated uh with joining uh those um you know, you can park and pool at those locations. Um they're looking at various housing opportunities with those locations, but um It's um you know it's unlikely that fixed ground service will return soon based on how much things have changed in the last couple years. >> Thank you. >> So as you can tell I'm not trying to sell you but I I do want you to understand what it what it could look like. >> Yeah. No, I appreciate your willingness to let us let in and ask questions come up. No, >> just for clarity purposes, Charles, can you we talked about this a little bit at our meeting, but could that transportation plan include instead of fix bus service, could that be a funding mechanism for micro transit or any selfless? >> I think it could. I mean, that that's the kind of service that we could, you know, define and agree to. You know, I think the difference is that when you're levying it yourself, you can it's not an all or nothing to a certain extent, whereas joining the district probably involves calculating, you know, it's about this much figure 150,000 or so and that's the that's what you have to work with. But you could levy right now. You could levy 45 50 75 you know what whatever you want versus asking us to levy a fixed amount and then um you have it back but you can only use it on transit purposes. And do you have, you know, do you have sufficient demand or do you expect sufficient demand to uh reach that level? And all of this is new policy ground for us because before the model was build a parking ride, it fills up, build a parking ride, it fills up, build a parking ride, it fills up. And so, you know, there we haven't had a join the taxing district conversation with anybody for many years because the model underneath it has changed so much. Um, you know, the other thing going on, I mentioned that we that we were working with Transit Link on a a transit link circulator with Carver County. Um, the county, you could talk to the county about transit funding availability. Uh, 17% of the transit the transportation sales and use tax, 3/4 cent sales tax in the region that that was uh that started in 2023. uh 17% of that is um off the top to the counties. Uh 17% of that 17% uh is um available for transit purposes. So 41% is for roadway reconstruction that doesn't involve expansion. 41% is for active transportation and 17% is for some combination of transit, complete streets and offsets to a a separate climate law. That um is a longer story, but um uh you know of that the county could pay 17% on transit. That's about a million dollars a year. I don't know what they are planning to use it on, but they can't they can't take that 17% and spend it on um you know road expansion. It's limited to purposes in statute, transit, complete streets, climate offsets. >> Sorry. Uh questions. >> Well, you've been answering as we've been going on. I will say comment anecdotally again block party this weekend so I got lots of feedback from my neighbors about everything. It was great. Um it sounds like my neighbors that use transit drive to Chaza and park in Chesca because we just don't have regular enough service from Carver Station. >> Um that >> How many would you say that is? >> Um >> we use your sample size neighborhood Meridian Fields. So, we've got 150 homes. >> How many of your neighbors? >> My neighbors, I think only one of them was talking to me about it, but she said that there were about six or eight people that will occasionally >> Yeah. >> drive to Chaza and take the bus. Um, my question, and I know that this is a variable, but and maybe there isn't, maybe this is too hard to answer, but for 100 or $150,000 a year, what does that look like in terms of bus service? Because I think we're getting primed for kind of a deeply discounted rate right now. I feel like does that look like fixed service? And then like maybe a part B to that question is like what are your thresholds for discontinuing service? >> Good question. Um it I mean it would really depend on your structure with Southwest and what their cost structure looks like in a way that I'm just not familiar with. Um it's not you know in our in in MTS's service uh we deliver an hour of service for um you know we'll round up and say it's $150 an hour. So it would be you know a thousand hours of service u which is you know a bus uh for half the day or so. It's you know it's not a it's not a huge amount of service. >> Sure. >> Uh it's um >> but it would maybe be morning and afternoon even rush hours. >> Okay. Well, that's >> for an increment not to Minneapolis. >> Okay. >> Uh is the is the thing to keep in mind. >> Okay. So, what does that increment look like then? Just a Chaza or it's going to eat Prairie or it's going >> It would really depend on a service plan that >> on the fly >> operating for an hour. So, >> right. Yeah. >> And the buses are going to look like what I would think about if I went into Minneapolis or St. Paul. >> Um I mean it all depends on the on the service that >> Okay. >> You know, I think If >> that's what I'm thinking. >> What's what's unusual here is that under a normal circumstance like Carver joining the taxing district would make you part of Metro Transit service area and then Metroransit would be your service provider and then it would look like that bus because of the geography in play. It likely would be cost prohibitive to do that. Just pulling the bus out from Bloomington uses half the time. >> Um, right. So, you know, contracting with Southwest for that kind of service probably makes the most sense or uh something like that. And we operate transit link with small buses. They look more like the metro mobility buses. >> Yep. >> Um and you know that that's running all over Carver County and Scott County. And it's um you know, it's just a different service structure with a with a smaller lowerc cost vehicle. I should note metro mobility because we're on this topic. The metro mobility service area is defined by the legislature. Uh so that's that's defined in statute for where metromobility serves. So joining the tax taxing district does not extend metro mobility service uh into into a city. Only legislative uh change to the metro mobility service area does that. The state as of July 1st is wholly responsible for the cost of metro mobility. Uh, so they have um discretion over even more discretion now over where it goes based on the funding that they're responsible for. >> And I guess I don't know are we in Metro Mobilities? >> No. >> Are according to the map, Chaz is the closest >> Chesa is >> but not even Victoria, >> right? >> Um I guess kind of going back to my question of when you determine that a route isn't viable anymore. We're looking at reports where we had 104 passengers last month. >> Yeah. >> And that is the lightest l month month that we've had this year. >> 104 and what? >> Our fixed routes. >> Fixed routes with Southwest. >> Correct. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Yeah. Um, but even then looking back and I'm looking at a table that goes back to January of 2022, I think our highest row has got to be our highest month may have been 203 passengers a couple years ago. Exactly two years ago. >> Yeah. >> So, >> yeah. So, on our >> it feels like we don't have >> transportation did not bounce back in postco. >> Our our past heristic would indicate that to be viable you'd want about that many a day. >> 100 a day. Yeah. >> Okay. Yeah. I don't think we had that many when we were doing like >> 200 a day >> at our best. >> I don't think we were doing that well in June of 2019. >> Right. Right. >> Or ever. >> Never. >> That's what >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> So, just to kind of what I hear you saying is based on the data, there isn't a viability in the short term for fixed post service on a carver. Is that correct? That's yeah. >> So any transportation plan that this city council would want to endeavor would be focused on micro transit whether that's uh through directly through met council and smart link or through uh prime southwest. >> Yep. >> Yeah. We're expanding our micro areas, but generally, you know, that our minimum size that we're looking at is a five bus operation, which is um in our based on our hours and things like that. Nominally about a million half dollar operation for we opened one in Woodbury. Uh we opened one in Roseville. We're opening one in Bloomington on August 15th. uh and then in Blaine on August and September 16th. So that's sort of the geog our next geography is in somewhat somewhat larger uh but suburban areas that don't have a lot of fixed route service or don't have high performance fixed route service >> when I'm looking at that June number that we have. I mean that because it's it says passengers that's the one weight trip that's >> that's a single ride. >> Yes. So I mean even if let's just say they rode 30 days which obviously there's not that many but that doesn't even that's like two people a day two or three people a day that are riding in a year. That's not much. No. >> Especially I mean if we're looking at >> there were 21 business days in June. >> So maybe three or four >> Yeah. a day. >> Mhm. >> Those are some pretty empty buses. >> Mhm. Yeah, >> that's frankly why the operations grant us a >> last well yeah >> co not having any service for a number of months >> but looking at the cost of what it would be per year to levy that's >> thank you I'm sorry to say but it doesn't I know you're not trying to sell us but it just that seems like a happy number for two to three people >> but smart link we can continue to use and >> Yep. No, it's available to you. >> There's like no route that's too short. I could get a ride from my house that's less than a mile away to come down here to a meeting. >> Quarter mile minimum is the walking distance that we would expect. >> We have to go around the block. >> That's longer than a mile. >> Quarter mile walk. >> I think Yeah. What am I supposed to do? Drive me in circle. the history of the history of this program may be maybe helpful to know. Um, this came from amalgamating a lot of county and nonprofit based services that uh officially were general public services that anyone could ride, but if it has a name like senior community services, uh, it doesn't feel like it's available to you as a member of the general public. And that was not true. Uh and um so so part of why why the council consolidated some of these things while still partnering locally so that there's there's some local influence over it is so that it was clearer that this is a general uh a generally available transit service for places that don't have uh the demand for fixed route service. >> All right. Well, thank you for answering all my questions. I really appreciate your patience and willingness. Any other questions? >> Okay. Well, >> thank you guys for coming. >> Thank you. >> What instead of 212 do we take to get out of here? >> Old 212. >> Old 212. >> So, go down. What is it? County Road 63 now. Flying Cloud Drive 61. Flying Cloud Drive. >> It's faster to go to Shak. >> Get on 169 and then go all the way. >> I don't know. I went I went >> I've done that several times. >> Pretty quick. Yeah. >> Yeah. But no, I this morning ways routed me Flying Cloud Drive up and then you pick up 212 or 494 in Prairie is the way to this morning. >> You just got a chance 169. >> Good luck. >> Be happy to if you have further questions feel free to pass them along. We'll >> thank you. The answer to your question, by the way, the median density in transit market area three is five people per acre >> and four it's three and a half >> like three three and a half. >> All right. Um >> just keep going because I know that we got but up next is the draft 10ear staffing plan >> update. We close this you can leave this. Can I get the I'm sorry. >> That was incredibly helpful, Brent. Thank you for putting that together. >> Any lingering questions I had about the transit tax district and it benefit to our >> answer. Yeah. As numbers are going through my head, I'm like, "Okay, if each one of us knew that we could get 50 people to ride a daily, >> start recruiting riders for us. >> That's where I'm going." >> That's where I'm thinking. >> That would be >> social media message tomorrow >> because it gets you to the transit station. >> There's got to be something there though. Like, why aren't people using it? I didn't real Yeah, I didn't either. >> We didn't realize this. So, how would we >> It's going to be really hard to break people of the Southwest Prime on demand when it goes away. >> That's true. Right. I think Yeah. It's just a prime example of the transportation is not very well coordinated and >> Yeah. >> And also communication. >> And the other thing is >> night and weekend service because they only do 6:00 a.m. to 7:00 p.m. Monday through Friday was what he said. If the county could pick that up. >> I know. >> And if only we had a county commissioner coming to our meeting. >> Yeah. >> Tonight. Sorry. Um 10ear staffing plan. But people have to sometimes that just means you have to plan ahead. You get to just go, "Oh, I think I want to go right now. Come get me." So, but you have a >> I understand. I'm just telling you that's it's going to be hard to break people of that habit. >> Okay. For the real this time. >> Yeah. Thank you, Mor Council. So, this is the first of several uh presentations that I would call ingredients into your 10ear long-term financial plan. So, we have uh a conversation on staffing, but also streets, parks, uh utilities, infrastructure, and facilities. And really, the essence of this is to prov provide the snapshot. And if you are okay with that outline, that gets kind of fed into the 10-year financial plan machine. And then you can see kind of the impacts by year of these different investments that you'd be making. So, um we're also changing our format a bit. This year we've uh relying a lot on uh PowerPoint to make these presentations and kind of get into it. And this year we're transitioning into more of like a full report um with the idea that we think we can provide a little bit more context uh for the city council. So, um, just some background, some plan goals, um, are listed there. Um, I think the biggest thing I want to point out, just not going to I'm not going to read them, but we're only addressing full-time position ads here. So, uh, that seasonal, part-time, uh, ads we're going to take on a year-by-year basis. Uh, we'll recognize kind of trend lines, um, and so on and so forth. Our process was we're pretty deliberate. Uh we did an initial solicitation, prepared a draft, uh had a critical review. We all met in here and went through it. Everyone kind of made their case uh using the frankly kind of the the premise that you know if Andrew because of our budget and our limited resources, if Andrew needs something in 2028 in public services, that might impact what Vicki or Lynn needs in a different part of the city. And so we tried to create kind of a a shared space uh recognizing that uh there'll have to be priorities and decisions made. We went through a couple rounds of that. So uh right now we're in that uh presentation of that draft plan or in essence our seven uh step uh just a plan summary uh going from that population of what we believe by year end 26 to be around 78900 to uh based on projections 128 and 2035. So a population of 62 of a 62% increase over that 10 years. I really focused on uh not exceeding that amount for the increase in full-time staff over that same period. So, you can see uh we're slightly below the increase in community size. Uh some additional uh summary pieces, you can see our current uh state of full-time positions by department out of the sheriff's contract as well. And then planning completion for that 10 years from 26 to 35. Um and then I think um a maturing of our plan. So um not to say it was overbuilt, but in 2023 that was our first kind of 10ear snapshot. And as you can see by year, we've kind of gone down with the number of positions that are identified in that. And I think that's shows kind of an evolution not just of where we've come in the last three years, but kind of understanding what we might need, the feedback that we've gotten from the council. And and then now that we are looking out that 10 years, we can see some some of the trends that are are going forward. And I I would point out to like one of the things that like I think has been um shows a great example of how well this plan has worked is uh two years ago we had shown adding a full-time deputy in 2025 and now based on kind of that continuing discussion you'll notice that that deputy position is moving back to 2030. Um, and again, you know, we're going to track this annually, year by year, but, you know, Commander Wolen signed off on that, recognizing that, you know, things change from year to year. Um, so getting into the, uh, the full report. This is the existing plan, uh, existing 10-year plan. You may remember that we were converting that mechanics position to a utilities position uh with uh Kenneet Andrews line of sight recognizing that the mechanics position is best added uh at what whatever point the uh community decides to build a public services facility. um just because of the space requirements. Uh and uh with that in mind, we'd be considering or contracting for that service uh until we reach that point. Um moving forward to some of the >> Can I ask one really quick question? Yeah. Yeah. >> Because we had talked about July 1st for that mechanics fine if we're going to wait if we think that's the appropriate way to go. Um but I thought our contract we was going away with whatever mechanic service we were using. Yeah, we don't have a currently we don't have a contract with any mechanic. >> Okay. >> I don't know when that expired, but >> So, where do our things go now? They need work done. >> Depends on what's wrong with it. So, they get shipped off to different places. >> Just a local body shop or >> local or dealership or um implement dealer. Just depends out the type of equipment and what's wrong with it. So, >> Okay. And do we have any um major ones that we've had in the last year that >> I can't think of any but that's not to say that >> has coming out but I'm just saying is there something that happened I'm looking at like these big chunks right where we're like saying okay if we were going to pay this much but now we're you know if we're having to farm it out to other businesses to do it are we already reaching that mechanics amount that's all I was looking for. >> I see. >> Yeah. And the problem with in my opinion with the mechanic position right now is there's nowhere for them to work. >> Mhm. >> Because the equipment would have to move out of the building to get the piece of equipment that you need to work on in the building and then it's a lot of setup and take down time that's wasted. They don't have an office that would be usually the mechanic is working in the shop. they have an office um that they can get to easily. Um we don't have that space for them. Um tool space would be an issue. Most mechanics come with their own tools, so we have a spot to put those. >> Um so at this time, I would think our money would be best spent on a utility operator. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Yeah. And just for um just to highlight that like when Andrew started like my big push was like you get started on hiring that mechanic and it was Andrew and his perspectives and conversations with the team that came back and said basically just what you heard you know that we're not ready at this time. >> Are we doing minor things in the shop? >> Like what would that include? >> We're doing oil changes and we're doing everything that we can do in house we do in house. >> Okay. um which would is going to be a similar story when you get a mechanic. Sometimes when the plow trucks break, it has to go out anyways. It has to go to Ber or or wherever um to get work done. So, it's not like we're going to be able to fix those big diesel engines in house all the time anyways. >> Okay. Okay. >> Uh so, then here's kind of the plan overview. I'm going to run through it uh by year. One of the things that was introduced early in the document is you know there's kind of uh five levels of what we call a planning cycle. So the the first two years are that annual budget like things are you know pro popping up that you know we really need to do that justification piece but also budget impact. Uh that second stage is that critical review. You can see we have some items listed including that mechanic. uh but then also introducing this transitional and conceptual that um in the same way that I mentioned that our staff uh additions have gone down. You know, it's hard to look out five years and and know exactly what you're going to need. And so we have concepts that we've uh listed here, but recognizing that some of these likely or almost definitely will change. And then we added a kind of a monitoring piece that you know based on what we're spending through consultants or needs that you know we think this is uh of interest. Um but it might pop up and we don't want to like be in a position next year where we say hey we need this GIS specialists actually in two years and you're like well we were you didn't even mention that last year. So this kind of gives you a line of sight to some of the things that we're thinking about. So again for plan year 26 uh we have the internship program at contracted deputy. I do think there's some benefits for that internship program but one of the big pieces that you know my editorial comment and that I shared with the team is that we have some like generational type of facilities and infrastructure investments that we're making. And although an internship program would have some benefit, if everything's a priority, nothing is. And so that's one uh that we felt that we could push out. Uh then contracted deputy. Um if you have talked to some folks in leadership positions at the sheriff's office, and you might even hear this from Commissioner Fee tonight, it sounds like they're going to really struggle with vacancy uh coming up in the sheriff's office. So the idea of adding another position when we're down and I would say more down than what like there typically are uh and then also just based on like what we're seeing for like calls there doesn't seem to be uh a justification. So, uh, we have that push that out to 2030. But again, that's something that based on development, based on I would say like community conversation that that's going to be have to be looked at uh, every year. Uh, the hardest part with that is it's such a it's such a big ad. So, we probably looking to do that in like a phase approach where you, you know, add that in a July of one year and then fully fund it the next. um moving to 2027 with that addition with that conversion of that mechanics position into a utilities technician position. You know, we're still tracking on that one technician per uh 1,000 residents. There are probably a dozen different ways that you can put that together, but we've been using that fairly successfully. Um, and at that time based on Andrew and Paul and Jordan's recommendations, we'll make a decision whether or not that needs to be a utilities technician or a general technician. They kind of work across departments, but there is some specialty related to that. Um, and then we'll also continue to monitor part-time position, but with that add in 25. Uh, we feel like we could push that uh plan year back uh from 27. Um, which also then creates this kind of like uh I would say budget capacity or levy capacity in 26 and 27 as we're starting to try to build uh towards larger projects in the community. Uh moving forward to 28, uh we had a communication specialist. Um we do think that a combination of software upgrades, training, um and consultant support, we can meet those ongoing communication needs. We don't feel like we have the overall capacity to add a full-time position where they would have to do other things to kind of make uh their work week complete. Um, I would say probably the biggest change that you're seeing is moving the fire chief's position uh up from 2030 to this uh July 1 start year in 2028. So about by a year and a half. Um, if you get into kind of the details really I would offer that the need for a fire chief has probably been out there for decades. fundamentally like the culture of the way fire departments were created is through volunteers and community resources. Um but the amount of uh administrative work, not like administrative as in like sending out letters, but like filing reports, uh following up with residents, etc. that we're asking folks to do on kind of a part-time schedule is inconsistent with how the city runs every other department. uh you have an operating budget of over a half a million dollars. You have it's the biggest department by number with 33 uh employees. And so um you know initially the fire department or former Chief Trimbo and Deputy Chief Walsh are now interim chief Walsh were kind of pushing for something earlier. Uh but when we talked about it, the practicality of it is it's probably going to take a year plus just to put the position together and figure out how you'd do the hiring process etc. And so and just because of the budget impact, we wanted to kind of um measure the implementation strategy. You can see here uh you can uh how we compare to other cities in Carver County as it relates to adding that position. Uh we also did a peer city review so you can see kind of how we stack up with our other peer cities. Um and then a review of calls uh time spent and then uh expenditure budget. I will note I had this up here earlier. Uh the city's already spending on a combination of these two positions about $60,000. And so you're really not, although it's significant, you're not biting off the whole $150,000 uh um in in one bite, you already making a commitment. Uh those numbers are going to go down for the deputy chief if you have someone here on a full-time basis. >> Quick question. >> Oh, go ahead. >> Okay. Um 2028, when is lens and property supposed to be built out or begin building and then build out? because that's how many 500 or 300 acres? 500 acres. >> Yeah, it's like 300 that you know they're going to go through the planning process in uh the remainder of this year in 26. I would speculate that the first homes would be built starting to be built in the spring of 27. Uh >> as far as like build out and I just that'd be a wild speculation. It's, you know, anywhere from 5 to 7 years, I would speculate. >> And the reason I'm saying this is because I I think this is a nice plan. And I like this timing because right after this, we're going to have the southest area is going to be coming on that Lensen is a huge piece of property. It may say 8,800 is estimated here, but a year after that, it's going to be huge. And I'd rather not be behind the game on our emergency services. Um, I'd rather be a step ahead of it. You said uh the thought was it would take a year, year and a half to kind of formulate what that full-time job look like. Does Victoria or Laconia provide us a blueprint for that? >> They do. >> Yeah. Um I think frankly all all the the cities do I and I'm >> Isa waiting too long. I think you could probably do it sooner uh if you um said, "Hey, we want to get this done sooner." Um, part of this in my calculus is like a budget condition, but also kind of normalizing the thought of of taking a department uh that is not used to like full-time like they have full-time leadership, but it's like when you're operating under a part-time structure, you know, there's there's just going to be little, I would say, like characteristics that are going to change and um >> that's my worry right there to Christiey's point we're going to grow >> quickly >> and to have that structure and a place of working >> at that time >> and I would like I'd love to be in a position where we could spend like if the council said okay we are in this spot to like um start a framework for cultivating uh leadership beyond kind of what we're doing now so that we could create uh some a strong internal candidate pool tool. Uh because I when I look at some of these cities, I think um anecdotally the biggest success stories come from uh the first chief being from the community in the department and transitioning and understanding the culture as opposed to bringing somebody in um from another city or another part of the state and then having them be the first of everything, including just getting to know everybody. Um, there are pros and cons to that, I'm I'm sure, but that's kind of my internal thought process. >> If we kept it 2028, I mean, we're halfway to 2026 right now, right? You'll take you've got time then to talk to other things, get some of these procedures and how what this is going to look like in place, and then you can be ready to hire for someone to start 2028. I mean that actually it seems like it's so far away but the work that has to be done in between there I think I don't know I think that to me the timing is right. I'm glad to see where it is. I'm glad it's not 2030. I'm glad it's 2028. I've gone on record saying that I would support this for 2026 if we decided that that was right. Although I think um perhaps my second best choice would be 2028 because you really laid this out really well the rationale behind it. Uh then moving on to 2029 uh you know we're continue with that that technician position adding the mechanics position. You can see the justifications and I can stop uh whenever you need me to. So that fire chief's position 2030 um you see pushed up uh the contract deputy pushed back to a July one the the planner and community events piece and that's just kind of a broad term obviously but in essence as you know we have these huge developments we have one technical planner on staff and so the amount of uh the volume of work and it's not just those big developments it's the zoning questions setbacks uh chicken coupe stuff, that kind of thing. Um we feel like that the we're going to have a a real uh need to support uh the community development director. But I also think it kind of coincides like we're going to be at the tail end or at the end of our partnership with Chester Recreation and we don't know what that looks like. Um, but I do feel like that from what I've experienced, the council would want to continue like community events, programming, uh, whether it's farmers market, community gardens, etc. And Brenda Good is kind of, uh, the Jack or Jane of all trades in the area right now. And so I think there is a nice kind of like fit that you can do some planning stuff, do some community events in a kind of a you know deputy community development kind of role. Uh some GIS work that might be helpful to the public services. But we do think uh there is a kind of a strong uh area of need here in addition to uh you know communications that would be uh helpful for the city when you're talking about the type of explosive growth. Um so again that's >> would that be better called like planner and community outreach or something? >> It's not this isn't designated to like be the title. to describe, but we yeah, we haven't gotten into what that title should be. It's just we use the best way to that we thought would describe it to you all and folks that might be reading it. So, um but again, it's 5 years out. So, thinking about like what our needs are will become more refined. um 2031. Although we obviously could benefit by having an information technology position, the amount of money that we're spending on uh our service provider of about 50,000 is maybe 2/ird of the way towards like funding that just the salary of that position. So, um we want to continue to monitor that position. Um but again when you get to like priorities we feel like having that technician adding another administrative assistant is a better use of those funds. Um moving to 2032. Uh these are I would call them kind of basic needs related to technician additional utility billing and accounting support number of payroll number of accounts receivable or payable uh accounts and utility billing. uh we want to do a certain amount of cross trainining to help but having that specialist uh as we get further in kind of monitoring these needs or conceptual uh we wanted to earmark that uh 2033 this is uh largely or almost exclusively based on the number of new housing starts. Uh one of the great things with this position is it's it's filled from building permit fees. So whenever you add it, you're going to have a revenue justification that will meet that need. Uh 2034, that's when we get into that communication specialist, whatever that means. I know that seemed like when I think of 2034, I feel like it's like from the future, but >> yeah. So we're, you know, getting away from kind of that management analyst idea. And I mentioned this kind of in another area with the kind of the development of uh administrative services. I think there's different ways that we can accommodate some of those needs. Um public services technician again considering that ratio of one technician per 10,00 residents. We have a a strong kind of leadership umbrella. As that department grows, you know, you're probably going to see needs even probably further specialized. probably not within the confines of this 10-year plan, but Andrew and I have had like preliminary discussions about like right now it's uh you know general which is streets, parks, facilities, everything and then like water and sewer. But you might see that expand to like a third arm of like parks a park specialty area where you have a you know staff assigned to parks and facilities or grounds uh with a superintendent and and technicians under that role. Again not identified here but something that we're monitoring. And then finally contracted deputy. So that's the new plan year. So, not compared to anything, but if we're following that kind of 5year increment, if we're following kind of a general rule of thumb of how Victoria has grown their contracted uh deputies, this would coincide with that. So, I know that's a ton of information uh all at once. So, I'll go back to the summary if there's anything that you want me to kind of dig down a little bit deeper on. But uh with your support, this would be the ingredients that we would give to the Northland team to enter into the long-term uh financial plan. >> Because of the time, I think that we can give you feedback during the regular meeting. Are you okay with that? >> Mhm. >> Because I have just a couple thoughts, but I we're already kind of two minutes into our break period. So with that, I would entertain a motion to adjurnn. >> I'll make a motion. >> Motion by council member Pchman. Second, second by council member S. All those in favor say >> I sign the checkbook that's the business