Based on the context provided in the transcript, here is the formatted version with speaker names identified. **Note on Identities:** * **Mayor:** Dan Rice (based on meeting context) * **City Manager:** Lindy Crawford * **Police Chief:** Referred to as "Chief" (Chief Dale Hager) * **Public Works Director/Engineer:** Paul Copy (referred to as "Mr. Copy") * **Council Members:** Bill Walsh, Kevin Edberg, Steven Hughes, and Heidi West. *** [1:06] **Mayor:** All right, we're going to call the meeting to order. Will the clerk please note those in attendance? All will be noted. Thank you. Will you please stand and join me in the pledge of allegiance? I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. [1:34] **Mayor:** All right. Item 2 a, minutes of the regular city council meeting on March 11th, 2025. I'd entertain a motion to approve the minutes. Motion a second. All those in favor say I. Any opposed? Motion carries. Minutes are approved. Item three, adoption of the agenda. We have one addition. We're going to add a 9A discussion of the parking lot trees at banning and fifth. Uh it's a well, we'll get to that when we when we get to that. Um are there any other additions or corrections to the agenda? [2:05] **Mayor:** Seeing none, I'd entertain a motion to adopt the agenda. Second. Have a motion to second. All those in favor say I. Any opposed? Motion carries. We have an agenda. Item four, consent agenda. I'd entertain a motion to approve the consent agenda. I move. A motion to second. All those in favor say I. I. Any opposed? Motion carries. Item 5A, donation of the Wiper Lake Lions Club Police Department drone. Chief, whenever you're ready. [2:30] **Chief:** Mr. Mayor, members of the council, thank you for having us here tonight. Um, tonight I'm here to talk about um adopting a resolution or asking you to adopt a resolution accepting a donation from the White Bear Lake Lions Club. Um, as the council knows, Minnesota statute uh 465.03 authorizes cities to accept donations of real and personal property for the benefits of its citizens. Um, the White Bear Line Lake Lions Club is about to make our the second donation uh this winter to our police department, which we're extremely appreciative of. [3:05] **Chief:** Earlier this winter. Um we've been working with Rihanna O'Brien and um they they made a significant donation to bolster our DARE um program with the police department. They asked if they could do more for us and we did see a need. Um as the council knows, we have a pretty robust uh drone program. We have two outdoor drones uh headed by uh Captain Tuma doing a great job with those drones. Although we found that there is a bit of a need for an indoor drone and one might think that it doesn't matter between the two. Um, outdoor drones are uh designed for a very specific purpose and that is to be outside in a lot of space. And anytime you need to get inside a building or next to a building or next to trees or something like that, it doesn't have that functionality because it recognizes that there's a danger or a hindrance to their movement and it doesn't allow the drone to get close enough um to a a space to a wall, let's say. [4:02] **Chief:** Um, and so an indoor drone is specifically designed, it's much smaller, and it's specifically designed to go into tight spaces. Um, we've had in the recent past, we've had a need for an indoor drone. We didn't have one on a pretty serious incident here in White Bear Lake. Um, it turned out fine, although an indoor drone would have ensured that it would have been fine before we had to send an officer in to make sure it was fine. So uh tonight um, we wanted to be dramatic and we wanted to fly a drone in the back door and fly it right up to you, Mr. Mayor. It's on back order. [4:46] **Chief:** So, uh, evidently evidently they are very popular and, uh, they're in demand. So, we weren't able to get it here tonight, but I do um uh ask uh recommend that the city council adopt the attached or the resolution that's before you accepting the receipt of uh this donation from the uh White Bear Lake Lions Club. And I thank uh the W Lions uh club members here here tonight. [5:16] **Mayor:** Thank you, Chief. Um so, just to be clear, there's no formal presentation of the donation. Um, that'll maybe we can do that another time, but I hope to. Well, I mean, but to me, this is one of those no-brainers, but I just I do want to take the opportunity to thank the Lions Club for their continued generosity and uh I would recommend that we accept this donation. So, council, we have a resolution before us. What would we like to do? Move to approve. Second. [5:40] **Council Member Bill Walsh:** The motion and a second. All those in any further discussion on this only. Mayor, do you want us to stipulate as a part of this motion that you should receive an in-person demonstration at a future council meeting? [5:54] **Mayor:** Be a surprise. It should come flying in a requirement, but it is welcomed. So, leave it at that. All right. Any further discussion? Seeing none, all those in favor say I. I. Any opposed? Motion carries. The resolution is passed. Thank you. [6:18] **Chief:** Thank you, Mr. Mayor. [6:20] **Mayor:** All right. Item 5B, statutory change expanding use of the Ramsey County Housing and Redevelopment Authority request for support. Miss Crawford. [6:29] **Lindy Crawford (City Manager):** Thank you, Mayor, members of the council. Uh, Ramsey County is here tonight um to present their um request for support for uh uh economic development and housing or excuse me, economic development authority. Um, so with that, I'm just going to kick it right over to Ramsey County so they can present it better than I can. Um, Um, thank you, city uh, city manager. [6:46] **Mai Chong Xiong (Ramsey County Commissioner):** Um, so I am Mai Chong Xiong. I'm Ramsey County Commissioner for District 6, which is most of the east side of St. Paul. And I'm also our the H the chair of our HRA, our housing and redevelopment authority. Um, I also have here um, Commissioner Miller who represents you all here too on the county board. Um, as well as uh, director um, Josh Olsen of our community and economic development team. We're here today to speak with you all about um our um proposal this year at the cap um and just welcome an opportunity for us to have a conversation about what we're trying to do with uh do there. [7:32] **Mai Chong Xiong:** Um so the we'll also provide an uh overview of our CED or our areas of work as well as um go over our economic competitiveness and inclusion plan. That's what helps drive um the overall direction of the department and then also give you an update on how um the HRA levy has been used. This is uh we're into our third year here of having the levy. Um so I came into office about just two years ago and had the honor and privilege to chair and be able to help um you know steer and help guide the programs um in the first year of like rolling it out. Um and so with that we've seen a lot of successes. Um so just happy to talk with you all more about that and then also um what this economic development ability would do um with this request at the capital. Um so that's what's looking ahead and what that would mean. Sorry. And then again, um I won't read all of this, but then you know the vision, mission, goals are steered by, um the Ramsey County Board of Commissioners. Um we provide the broad direction. And then I'll have uh Commissioner Miller over here just speak more about our our plan vision, how the county uh breaks down to BJU, everyone. [8:53] **Commissioner Miller:** Good evening. Uh thank you, Commissioner Xiong. Um, like she had mentioned, the Ramsey County Board's current priorities encompass our mission, our vision, and the goals of strengthening individuals, family, and community safety and well-being, um, promoting economic prosperity and investing in neighborhoods, creating access um, for to opportunity for all residents and businesses, and being fiscally responsible. And now that we have a full board of commissioners, we'll be revisiting our strategic plan and priorities later this year. [9:30] **Commissioner Miller:** Next one. So, um, these are our current seven strategic priorities that the board has identified and is helping guide our work. Um, these can also be found on our on our website and go into more detail, but you know, residents first effective efficient accessible operations, advancing racial and health equity and shared community power, aligning talent, attraction, retention, and promotion. um putting well-being and community at the center of justice and um systems transformation, advancing a holistic um approach to strengthening individuals and families, responding to climate change, and then intergenerational prosperity for racial and economic inclusion. And then this right here is a visual that really helps understand the breakdown of the county's strategic teams. Currently, it is divided into five focus areas centered around our residents and they include health and wellness, economic wealth, uh growth and community investment, safe uh information and public record safety and adjustment with the strategic team encompassing all four areas. And now I'll turn it over to interim director of community economic and development Josh Olsen. [10:35] **Josh Olson:** Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Uh, council members, thank you for this, uh, invitation. Um, I'm going to walk you through, um, you know, I know that we're here to talk about this legislative uh, change. Um, but we've been doing these presentations at several other cities. Um, and along the way, almost every single one of them said, "What are you doing with the HRA levy today?" And so, I think, uh, wanted to kind of give you a little bit of background um, on on what we've been doing with the HRA levy, but specifically, what is our department that leads this work? And I I bring that to you because we're new. Um we're actually the newest department um within Ramsey County. Um I've had predecessors who have been at the county for longer than than I have. I've been with the county for 15 years. Um who have been working with you alongside of your staff um bringing and supporting affordable housing redevelopment um activities um but we really hadn't been fully formed. And I'll I'll speak to that um you know with these subsequent slides. [11:33] **Josh Olson:** So, um, our community economic development department is broken into four areas. Um, and they're they're right there up on the screen. Housing infrastructure programming is by far our largest area of work. Um, but we also have um a growing array of programs um within these other areas as well. Um, specifically within our redevelopment programming, um, we do support, um, individuals within my office, um, support the largescale real estate projects that the county has going on. Um, probably the most notable of those is, uh, the redevelopment of the TCAP site um, in Nardan Hills. [12:13] **Josh Olson:** But that last um uh box there in the corner uh related to business support and growth is an area where I think we want to speak to you a little bit more about that tonight. But it is an area that we've been seeing um tremendous amount of uh interest by our community partners including cities um as well as from our business community directly. What where can um you county be involved in supporting us? Um this next slide is very busy and I fully recognize that. I promise I won't walk through any of these slides, but I do really want to focus in on the areas in the blue, the key points that I want to call out. [12:48] **Josh Olson:** Like I said, we we're a we're a department that's about five years um in the making and we've had a lot of activities, a lot of responsibility shift on us. Um but I think what's core to what a lot of these throughpoints across these entire things that have incurred in that top line which are things that have happened as well as the numbering a number of uh uh funding streams that have come our way or come through our department is that we've been trying to build a much more responsive um and diverse mix of programming across those four lines that you saw um on that introductory slide as well as developing a much more sustainable locally driven funding model. Um that's a key point um that uh kind of leads us a little bit to this next slide. [13:36] **Josh Olson:** But I would just say that um we have when I started with the county years ago, but when I started within this particular team, um we predominantly were a federal entitlement. Um so we managed federal programs. Um, CDBG, which I noticed was one of those activities and awards that you approved on your consent agenda, has been the line share of our of our department for 20 plus years. Um, that's always an area that is goes with the ebbs and flows of things in Washington. Um, it also comes with a lot of rules and restrictions. Um, and we'll speak I'll speak to that a little bit here on these subsequent slides, but the key point is that we didn't get to control a lot. We were told um by federal and other agency, federal government, federal agencies how we would use the funding and it always has been difficult to spend at times but also hard to align against priorities that the commissioners um stated earlier. [14:38] **Josh Olson:** Oh, the one thing I wanted to just mention um Commissioner Xiong mentioned, you know, our economic competitiveness and inclusion plan (ECI). Um this really is at the heart of the work um of my department. Um it becomes really our north star um for our work. Um but really kind of drives at the intersection of how the county can be impactful um be a really quality partner, an important partner um towards investing in community through workforce programming um redevelopment uh placebased investments. Those are the things that are along critical corridors for example supporting the expansion of affordable housing um and stabilizing affordable housing um as well as supporting businesses. [15:21] **Josh Olson:** So the one of the first recommended actions of that ECI plan—and sorry I'm using acronyms and I do apologize if I float them in my my speech. There is an acronym key at the end of my presentation. We did that on purpose. Um that I'm I'm we're quite full of them um because we we deal with a lot of federal government programs. Um but our HRA levy, our uh housing redevelopment authority levy was one of the first recommended actions of that ECI plan. It called for um the activation of that HRA levy. Um the county um you know had had an HRA, long-standing HRA, but had never levied. Um we're actually the last county in the metro area to do that. Um and it wasn't without, you know, big actions and big decisions. Um see, so we approved um the county approved the HRA area of operation. [16:16] **Josh Olson:** That's a very um specific term, but really basically the area um of the county um in in '21 to begin um the HRA levy in '22. Um as I said, Ramsey County was the last county, metropolitan county, to activate their levy. Um, just this past year we had about $13.6 million that went into the HRA levy and again that funding is guided by the ECI plan that we released in March of '21. Within the HRA levy um we support a number of different programs um predominantly in the areas of um housing and redevelopment. Um I'm sure that you've been aware of several of these because I think that you've come through for random awards um related to kind of large-scale projects who may have sought funding um from Ramsey County through our competitive solicitations. Um critical corridors which I know there was a critical corridor award that went to the city here uh related to county road E and your and your um your work with Gem Lake and Vadnais Heights which we're really excited about. [17:15] **Josh Olson:** Um but other programs that maybe you don't see as much on a day-to-day basis. And that includes some of our down payment assistance programming um that goes directly to residents as they look um for new homes um for the first time in some cases, first time in in their family through our first generation program. Um you know, as you can see, we housing takes up the majority of our funding. It's not our only source HRA, but it is definitely becomes the line share of how we do it. Um, you know, I would be remiss if I didn't say this because I hear it from you, uh, council members here in suburban Ramsey County, but also from, uh, council members in St. Paul. What about parity? And we really strive to create that 50-50 split between programming in suburban Ramsey County as well as in the in St. Paul. And you can see from um that this was in '23 um actually '24 we were actually closer to 50/50. Um I think we were within about one tenth of a percentage. [18:24] **Josh Olson:** So I'm speeding through these slides. I apologize. But I want to set the stage a little bit about where we've been going and how we've been doing it. Um so just this past um now '23, so one year past um we you there was about $183,000 that came back um of the HRA to projects and program uh recipients within uh the city of White Bear Lake. Uh represents two first homes and then that critical corridors award. Um we certainly want to to do more with you um and we're excited by that. [19:04] **Josh Olson:** But this is purely a snapshot and I mentioned it a little bit earlier uh that the HRA is but one of a numerous funding streams that we manage through our department. And so sometimes we like to look at this um ROI, the return on investment across all of our funding streams and where it's been going. Um and so this doesn't show a whole lot more that's maybe happening in uh White Bear Lake, but I want to call out a couple of a couple of the other things that are happening. um including our support of homeowners who are in need of rehab. Um and sometimes that's paired with your programming or um separate from that. Um we also have instituted new programs um that I do know um some representatives um within your community have taken advantage of which is our new critical repair program. Um which really was a an evolution from where we started. um when we heard when we had this as a federal program only: "this doesn't fit my needs, I have issues, I have a leaky roof, I want to stay in my home, how can you help us?" [20:08] **Josh Olson:** Um and so one thing we did do um as part of um a change in the last couple years is we've reformatted or revamped a little bit of our uh critical repair programs um to support individuals who are in desperate need of staying in their home um this program also has a sub program that supports individuals within manufactured home communities which is a a much different kind of program but um all the all the more important too um because in most cases they don't own the land. So you can't apply a a mortgage or some kind of uh restriction on the land if they don't own it. Um this is just a three-year profile and very quickly just to show that you know we've had some awards. Right. Um the word that we just saw earlier um on your consent agenda doesn't actually show up on this this one. It should show up now um or it will show up in next year's 2024 as that award occurred this year. [21:18] **Josh Olson:** And very quickly um just to give you a snapshot because I know home um some of our wealth generation programming is an area where um we've seen a lot of response and um from White Bear residents um while those those figures that showed a little bit earlier um showed residents taking advantage of those programmings, we actually are seeing a little bit of an uptick. And so while we haven't closed our books um or closed our data books uh for 2024, uh we did see four residents or six residents I should say um buy uh new homes um or buy homes in White Bear Lake uh this past year. Um that represents about 13% of our total um spending. So, um, which is great to see that based on our kind of calculations, um, residents are in White Bear are taking advantage of this program more than the rest of, uh, the county. [22:21] **Josh Olson:** So, this is that was the appetizer. Here's the main event. Um so I wanted to call out um you know our ECI plan again [Music] um was an amount it was a great amount of work to really look at the intersections um and linkages between the areas of affordable housing redevelopment, workforce development and small business. And as you can see from just the some of the statistics that we pulled from that um ECI plan, investing in affordable housing um won't lift us out of the housing crisis that we currently are seeing. Um, and one way where we think that we can begin to start to see those improvements, um, investments that go beyond just affordable housing, but the invest in in the growth of jobs and the growth in wages, um, as ways to kind of build a much more prosperous uh, Ramsey County. [23:05] **Josh Olson:** This is uh, that small business programming is also an area where we haven't really had the ability to kind of go deep and go far right now. some of that programming that we do have um is limited to our general levy and there's a lot of um pulls tugs and pulls on the county's general levy um including supporting people who are in in certain in dire needs. So, we've received uh logical questions um on how we we will use this business programming. And while we haven't built out the array because we're seeking that legislative approval, um we certainly want to articulate very clearly that we're going to continue to focus on affordable housing. There is a major crisis in our community. Um our ECI plan called out a need of about 15,000 units that we're behind um in terms of supporting um deeply affordable um units. So that will continue. [24:00] **Josh Olson:** We're going we're making substantial strides. we have in the last several years using American Rescue Plan dollars, repurposing a lot of federal funding deeply, you know, using the HRA levy to kind of create affordable housing, but building on that work where we want to start to move in the direction of supporting businesses alongside of that work as well. Um we do that because we learned a lot during the pandemic when as that earlier slide that was very busy um called out uh we were that my department was thrust in to the position of helping to support businesses in need during the pandemic. That's work that we had not necessarily done. It's definitely not work that we necessarily signed up for either. But nevertheless, counties were called to action to do that. [24:53] **Josh Olson:** And what we learned through that process is that in particular in Ramsey County, um the geography of not Ramsey County, not my organization necessarily, but the the geography of Ramsey County is that we have a fractured business support system. Um certain areas have a lot of resources, certain areas don't. um there isn't necessarily a a follow-through with businesses to ensure that they get the needs from being an entrepreneur all the way up um to you know wellestablished second you know second first and second stage businesses those that are growing. [25:27] **Josh Olson:** So, um, we are piloting some work in order to, um, help with that capacity building of many of our community- based organizations who are doing that work on behalf of counties and cities. Um, providing those more technical resources to businesses as they um, you know, write that business plan, execute that business plan, and grow and hire people. um but also kind of working through those areas about uh finding you know flexible capital that can meet their needs um where they're at. [25:59] **Josh Olson:** So um where we are at today and that's a again I I gave you a long story to get to this and I apologize but wanted to kind of set the stage of why we we'd be at this position. Um so we are currently up at the capital um seeking a change um to our HRA language. So we have our own statute um that uh is very restricted or it is restricted to affordable housing programming and redevelopment because of that nexus between those other disciplines. We really believe that this is our opportunity to carve out a little bit of money out of the HRA to help small business programming. Um like I said, we we do some of that uh programming through our general levy. It's about anywhere between $300 to $500,000 a year. Um, but we'd like to kind of move some of that over into uh to the HRA levy. [26:47] **Josh Olson:** So, um, the one thing I want to call out though is this legislation does not change the impact does not change or impact the formula for the HRA. The HRA levy is what it is. Um, but that it kind of seeks to kind of clarify um, what are the eligible uses, but also gives you city councils um, within Ramsey County the ability to opt in or opt out of that. Through a successful uh legislation, we really believe that that's a core value. We've heard from cities as we sought to do this last year kind of late in the game. Um but asking this, you know, again, not changing that this is not a new tax. This is purely just changing the eligible uses within the HRA. Um and then second of all, giving that ability to kind of opt in. [27:32] **Josh Olson:** And what that means is for you as a city, you may choose to stick with the existing programming that is housing and redevelopment or kind of seek that expanded use. And we believe that in many communities, including yours, um I think that that's a a really good opportunity to kind of bring the full folks a full host of um ROI um year in and year out. As you saw from those earlier slides, um you know, some communities have a lot of affordable housing happening in their community and see so they see that um you know, estimate investments happening fairly frequently, but I know in some communities affordable housing projects take a long time. They're complicated. Um they may not be a fit in every single corner. And so this is an opportunity to kind of expand that um that funding array. So I think that is my last slide. Yeah, I stand for questions. [28:30] **Mai Chong Xiong:** Um I just wanted to um add that I would love to see more projects from all throughout Ramsey County and this just provides us an opportunity um to invest in whether it be businesses and or housing. Um one of the uh things that I wanted to add in our current HRA is that for any of our projects that we approve, we always have city support already too. So, um, having city support, um, would still apply with this economic development ability request. And I stand for any questions that you may have. [29:05] **Mayor:** Thank you very much for all the information in the background. Very helpful. Council, do we have any questions for the county? All right. We got to have a question. Well, it's not a requirement. I don't have any, but Council Member Walsh, if you have a question, please. [29:21] **Council Member Bill Walsh:** Well, thank you, Mr. Mayor. I guess I'm just thinking about this opt-in opt out thing. I'm just trying to figure out why would a why would a city opt out? I mean, it's not it's just an available resource, available fund. What What What have you heard that would—I mean, is it just some caution? Because you've said over and over that it's not going to affect the HRA side, so that that funding is going to be there and we've got all this new money coming into housing with the sales tax and everything. So, what what what are the concerns of cities that said we want to be able to opt in or opt out? Can you characterize that? [29:54] **Mai Chong Xiong:** I mean I think some of it has been around like just priority like concerns that we may not be prioritizing housing um uh in this case and then others are just more where they're like they have their own economic development authority. How does that work? Um and if it's needed. So that that's just been things that the cities have been grappling with. I don't know if you want to add. [30:20] **Josh Olson:** Yeah, I think I would I would just add um Mr. Mayor, uh Council Member Walsh, I think one thing to add is I I related to what Commissioner Xiong said about, you know, city priorities and city activities. Um I think there's been a healthy skepticism about the county's involvement in the past. Um we we sought this legislation 5 years ago or a version of this, I don't want to suggest it's the same thing, a version of this and it was done very poorly. Um I'll just come out and say it. And and I think there's a that skepticism is "is this another inroad into something else?" [30:56] **Josh Olson:** Um and I think what we we heard through that engagement last year was we don't want this to be serve as another place to get to a tax and I think we've created the—I mean taken away the ability within the legislation that the county is going to be able to tax through this EDA. So we've removed that issue. Um I I think it really kind of comes down to priorities. some communities care deeply about like expanding the amount and increasing the pace of affordable housing in their programming and so for them it's we watch more want to focus on those those core areas while others I think we've heard like no we see the intersections we're not going to have that big project every year um so this is a way that we can kind of see that development happening. [31:41] **Council Member Bill Walsh:** Go ahead. [31:43] **Josh Olson:** Um mayor council Walsh I would just add to that that this is a an opportunity for a partnership that uh you know services that we we have one one economic development and housing coordinator, right? This is a great opportunity for a partnership um on services that that we really can't offer at the city level and that you know um a different priority set that our than our chamber has. So I I'll let you finish, but I would recommend that you adopt the resolution when you finish with questions. [32:14] **Council Member Bill Walsh:** Another one, Mr. Mayor, just just the legislative track. What uh authors in the House and Senate? I think I saw a Senate author. What's a House author? And where's where does this go? Do you expect this to go stand alone and be a bill that can actually pass with this divided legislature or is it going to get tucked into a housing bill or where do you see this? [32:38] **Josh Olson:** That is a great question. Um and and it's some level is kind of a a mystery um crystal ball piece. Um it appears that we're going to have a hearing on the Senate side next week um on the tax side. So it may flow through the tax bill um and or the local government bill and last year that's where our local state government bill that went last year. That's where we thought. So I think it's going to wind up most likely because it's such a small bill um tucked into kind of an omnibus bill um related in those areas. [33:09] **Council Member Bill Walsh:** Okay. Thank you. [33:10] **Council Member Kevin Edberg:** Council member Edberg. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. So, like uh Council Member Walsh, I agree that it's um it's an option that we have and I don't see any reason why we wouldn't want to take advantage of it. Um I've seen the county um invest in our community in the county road E project. Uh our staff were involved with two other communities um part of the ward that I represent. Um, so the county E project, we've had a couple of brownfield grants that have come u from uh Ramsey County as a form of business or housing development assistance. Uh, our Rambler Revolution several years ago was funded uh in part with CDBG funds via the county. So, our relationships there have been productive uses uh that have served our community. So, uh I don't know exactly what these new programs are that will be rolled out. Um but the past record in my mind has been uh has been uh positive. So, um when we're ready to for a resolution, I'm prepared to move. But sure, whomever else. [34:11] **Mayor:** Well, while we have the county up here, are there any other questions specific to the our county representatives? Seeing none. All right. [34:22] **Josh Olson:** Well, Mr. Mayor, if I might, um I'll just leave this with you. This is just a couple copies of our uh annual report from last year. Um as well as our resource guide so you can get a a better collection of like all the programming that is coming through our community economic development department. So I'll just leave it with your clerk. [34:38] **Mayor:** Great. Thank you very much. Thank you. All right. We have a resolution before us. I would entertain a motion to approve the resolution. All so move. Second. I have a motion and a second. Any further discussion on this resolution? Seeing none, all those in favor say I. I any opposed? Motion carries. The resolution is passed. Thank you again for coming. All right. Item six, public hearing. Nothing scheduled. Item seven, unfinished business. We have nothing scheduled. Item 8A, under new business, the White Bear Lake Area High School neighborhood parking. Mr. Copy. [35:19] **Paul Copy (Engineer):** Um, mayor, members of the council, tonight uh is an update to our last item on February 11th where we uh reviewed uh some proposed parking restriction changes uh based on the uh functionality of the north campus uh looking at uh engineering and police review of the area, how the um different events and school parking were functioning. Um based on that uh staff sent out over 400 uh requests to the surrounding properties as directed by council. Um gave uh those folks about 3 to four weeks to uh send any requests. We had a lot of back and forth with uh residents. Um of that we had uh we received 40 comments back uh telephone calls and emails. um had a little bit of back and forth with uh people mostly um just how the uh uh permit parking would work in the area. [36:20] **Paul Copy:** Um so that was kind of the majority. There was a few kind of one-off um comments, not necessarily bad, but things that we'll watch um not necessarily that we could react to at this time. Uh we had one change that we would recommend as we as I get through my presentation um just for uh consistency through the neighborhood with the permit parking. And then uh we did hear again um as we discussed a little bit at the February 11th meeting uh some concern for uh safety on Bald Eagle Avenue and the intersection of uh Night Street with pedestrian crossing and uh vehicles going through that intersection. [36:55] **Paul Copy:** Um based on and then the other thing I'll touch on is 12th street uh was still we were still working on the final design for 12th street at the time that we had spoke about uh the uh parking around the campus and I'll go through that. So of the actual parking restrictions that we had uh proposed uh very well received. Um so based on that we would no park the south side of uh Garden Lane uh no park Bald Eagle Avenue from 6th Street to 9th Street which is under the city's jurisdiction. We'll also uh tonight, one of the recommendations would be to uh um have the county no park uh Bald Eagle Avenue from 9th Street to the uh tracks of the north city limits, which is under their jurisdiction. Uh would be a a formal proposal to the county to do that. [37:51] **Paul Copy:** Uh, as far as 12th street goes, uh, what we decided, uh, uh, based on the final design is to just have the, uh, not have any permanent no parking restrictions, but rather have the permit parking restrictions for 12th street. Um, that was the input and and, uh, feedback that we did receive from the neighborhood. So, that's the actual signed parking restrictions. As far as the permit parking goes, um you can see Campbell Circle was the the one that we got a few comments on or questions on um why it wasn't included. Initially, it was, you know, looking at how far people might walk and and whatnot. And there was uh three folks or so on Campbell Circle that said, "Why not us?" But so after looking at it, it made sense to add them in as a no parking or a permit parking area um just to uh alleviate some of the uh uh temptation of people parking on that cul-de-sac. So that would be the uh final uh staff recommendation for the permit parking. [38:54] **Paul Copy:** Um, one thing I'll note, the uh again as mentioned at the February 11th meeting, uh the permit parking for South Campus is been uh included in uh city ordinance. Um so that will need to be modified um to one add the north campus area or the White Bear Lake Area High School area. Um as well as remove the uh previous south campus no park or permit parking area. Um Miss Crawford has started working with our city attorney on the uh on some proposed language as well as some other modifications to the parking ordinance. So that we anticipate coming back sometime this summer um as a overall package versus piece mealing it together with just the permit parking. Uh so that we do have it in place for um as we for sure before we get into the school next year. So that'd be the idea. [39:48] **Paul Copy:** Um some of the um improvements, the uh uh what we can do is as we do the uh uh 12th street improvements, um we'll leave that alone until we get the uh uh permit parking in place. Uh the one portion that we would do immediately if council um authorizes staff tonight would be to no park uh 6th Street to 9th Street, which is under city's jurisdiction. And then uh staff would also be recommending that council um direct or authorize staff to um request no parking on Bald Eagle Avenue from Ninth Street to uh the North City limits uh to direct that proposal to the county to to get that no parked. [40:40] **Paul Copy:** So um as far as recommendations go, there would be two resolutions before you tonight. Uh the first one is to uh uh a resolution requesting Ramsey County designate no parking or park restrictions on Bald Eagle avenue from 9th Street to the northern city limits. Um as well as closure of the off- street parking area on the east side of Bald Eagle immediately north of Ninth Street. Also review a traffic and safety concerns at the intersection of Ninth Street and Bald Eagle Avenue. Uh the second resolution would be to uh designate no—designate parking restrictions on Bald Eagle Avenue from 6th Street to 9th Street. Designating parking restrictions on Garden Lane from Lamir Lane to Bald Eagle Avenue and removing all current no parking restrictions on 12th Street from Division Avenue to Long Avenue. Again, that would be replaced with the permit parking once that's in place. Um, finally, uh, staff would ask direction to, um, have council direct staff to, uh, prepare the, uh, amendments to the ordinance, uh, for adoption later this summer. Be happy to answer any questions. [41:35] **Mayor:** Thank you, Mr. Copy. Um, first question. So, the I want to be clear, the permitted parking whole construct is yet to be developed. uh we'd have we'd have to amend the ordinance and then we'll have a discussion about is that during certain times of the day, is it during only the school year? All that all those details still need to be fleshed out. [41:59] **Paul Copy:** Uh mayor, members of the council, that is correct. We would do that with the ordinance revisions. [42:04] **Mayor:** Okay. Thank you, council. Any questions for Mr. Copy? Council member Hughes. [42:10] **Council Member Steven Hughes:** Yeah. So, we're asking for the county to review the traffic concerns at Bald Eagle and Knight. Can we just flat out ask them to put a stop sign in? [42:22] **Paul Copy:** Um, mayor, members of the council, they will there's a process uh that's required a uh um stop sign just intersection justification. So, they have to go through a process to do that. Um um to look at traffic volume, speeds, things like that to uh to look at whether that's warranted or not under um under those uh stop sign requirements. So, there'll be a process that they'll need to go through to do that. [42:52] **Council Member Steven Hughes:** I get that they have to do that, but do we have to do that? Can't we just ask for it and then they can approve or deny based on what their requirements are? [42:57] **Paul Copy:** Mayor, members of the council, that's generally what we're asking for. [43:03] **Council Member Steven Hughes:** I don't want to be—I guess I don't want to be squishy. I really I don't want to wait until somebody gets hit there before we slow it down. Okay. And then we are asking to re—uh sorry number two there removing the current no parking restrictions on 12th. We're not going to do that until the other ones are ready to go in. Right. Or are we going to have a period of time where there's nothing? [43:24] **Paul Copy:** Uh mayor, members of the council, um we did look at that. Uh there might be a few week period in there we hope to have. Uh so by the time we get in there do construction, it's going to be later in the summer. um hopefully about the time that we uh bring back the uh permit parking and the no parking ordinance amendment. So should align fairly closely. If we need if we need to react, we can always bring back a uh um kind of a intermediate if we have to, but we anticipate those to align fairly well. [43:55] **Council Member Steven Hughes:** Okay. So we're not anticipating a six-month period where there's nothing. [43:59] **Paul Copy:** No, that's correct. [44:01] **Council Member Steven Hughes:** Okay. Thanks. [44:02] **Mayor:** Council. Any other questions for Mr. Copy? All right, we have two resolutions before us. The first one making the recommendation of the county. I would entertain a motion to adopt that first resolution. So moved. Second. The motion to second. Any further discussion on that resolution? Seeing none, all those in favor say I. I. Any opposed? Motion carries. That resolution is passed. We have a second resolution designating parking restrictions on Bald Eagle Avenue 6th to 9th Street. Um so on and so forth. I would entertain a motion to adopt that resolution. So moved. Second. I have a motion and a second. Any further discussion? Seeing none, all those in favor say I. Any opposed? Motion carries. The resolution is passed. Thank you. [44:48] **Paul Copy:** Thank you. [44:50] **Mayor:** Thank you, Mr. Copy. All right. Item nine, our newly added uh item for discussion of the parking lot trees at the banning and fifth parking lot. Um I'll tee this up for you, Council Member West, and just for the council. This is a request from Council Member West. Um, I thought it was a good idea. We should at least have a discussion um about whether or not it's worth um having a public hearing on this. I've gotten emails and comments. It sounds like Council Member West is as well. So, that's why we're—that's why we added it to the agenda. Council Member West. [45:26] **Council Member Heidi West:** Um yeah. So, the city of White Bear Lake um used to be designated as a national tree city. Um, and we don't—like we still are. I believe we still are. [45:37] **Mayor:** That goes away. I think we still are. It's hard to tell with all of the dead ash and other tree fall, but yes, okay. [45:47] **Council Member Heidi West:** We would like to maybe be more closely aligned to a uh national tree city um in looks as well as designation. Um, and I've heard from um, people uh, in the community personally. Um, there have been letters to the editor. Um, we've gotten also messages from the environmental advisory committee wanting to um, have us save the trees. So, um, which we are going to be redoing the parking lots. Um, so I thought it would be a good idea to actually hear from the community um, in a public hearing and um, I spoke with the city engineer who said that there was still time to be able to do that. Um, even if we had that during the next city council for them to still put together the plans that we would ultimately approve or not, right, Mr. Copy? Is that how that works? Okay. So anyway, so I'm uh recommending a public hearing on the ACE parking lot trees. [47:06] **Mayor:** And just for clarity for the council as a matter of procedure, we typically have a resolution um can be in the form of a motion like this um ordering a public hearing and and noticing it as such. So um if it is the will of the council and they think that in order to make an informed decision on this issue, they'd like to hear from the public. Uh I think I want to make that available to the council. Um, so that's what we have before us. So I think the best way to do that, we can have some discussion on this first. Otherwise, Council Member West, if you wanted to make a motion to order a public hearing on this issue at the first April council meeting, that would be appropriate. [47:56] **Council Member Heidi West:** I would like to make a motion for a public hearing at the first city council meeting in April on April 8th. [48:04] **Mayor:** Very good. Do we have a second on that motion? Second. I have a motion and a second. Any further discussion on this? [48:10] **Council Member Bill Walsh:** Mr. Mayor? Just a a question on timing then. I mean, we are we we we we set the staff off to get bids and we're in the RFP process, right? So, this isn't going to slow this down. Was I not listening? Sorry. Uh we're just we're concerned we're not going to—I mean, we can adjust if we do the trees or not to do the trees. We can get the process going. Doesn't slow it down any. [48:33] **Paul Copy:** Uh, mayor, members of the council, as far as schedule goes, um, we at the, uh, March 11th meeting when we discussed this and and, uh, council gave staff direction to move forward with the plans and specifications, uh, we did, uh, factor into the schedule a review preliminary plans. And this was really to review the ACE parking lot um kind of uh some options or preferred option to um how we would add parking with removing the trees. That was the uh general direction at that meeting. Um so we're moving ahead with that. [49:10] **Paul Copy:** Um if there were um the appetite for council to not remove the trees in the end um uh generally the parking lot would go back um as it is. Um we did speak um to a uh the potential of still removing one of the four trees that's the immediately adjacent to the ACE building or the hardware building. Uh that one is um hollowed out. There's some damage to it. Um, so fairly small area that it's in. So that might still make sense to remove that tree regardless of um the other one. So there's still some uh adjustments that would be uh need to be made, but generally speaking, the lot would go back um generally the way it is today. Um a few modifications that we'll look at that may add a parking stall or two. um improve flow through there a little bit. But um uh definitely uh we'll continue to move forward with those um plans per se and um can adjust if the uh council gave us different direction on the uh April 8th council meeting. [50:00] **Mayor:** Mr. Copy, I believe the plans and specs were they going to come back April 22nd? [50:06] **Paul Copy:** Uh mayor, members of the council. So the actual approved plans and specifications would not come back till the second meeting in May um where council would approve plans and then authorize staff to go out for bid. So we factored in that kind of intermediate check the end of April just to kind of hey here here's kind of the preferred because we kind of um during the uh um mobility study uh process we looked at some kind of high level how can we uh um adjust the parking lot to add additional um or remove the trees and add additional parking. Um so now it's down to the plan level. So, we wanted to do that intermediate check-in anyway. So, um we we do have that time. [50:52] **Mayor:** So, I think I have that straight, but I want to be crystal clear on this. If I'm hearing you correctly, the council has not expressly authorized removing the trees. What we have done is pursuant to recommendation said go out for an RFP with a design and bid that does remove the trees and then we will have the opportunity to approve that or not. Do I have that correct? [51:19] **Paul Copy:** Uh mayor members of the council. So between now and um at least our proposed schedule May 27th. May 27th based on count council direction between now and then. So, um if uh council um has a public hearing on the 8th, um but for sure by the uh um at least our planned preliminary plan check-in for the a lot on April 22nd, uh we'd want council direction to give us time to, you know, it's it's a tight schedule to go between that and the May 27th where council would actually approve the plans and authorize us to bid whether they whether it's removal of the trees or not. [51:58] **Lindy Crawford:** Mayor, to elaborate on that, the city council has not authorized us to go out for bid. Uh we are currently looking at configurations of that parking lot. So you the council has not authorized removal of any trees at this point um or or or any final layout. That's what we would be coming back to you with um at the end of May where that's when you would make that decision. [52:27] **Mayor:** Okay. So, it sounds like this is all very timely and we were going to take that up anyways and this is just an opportunity to hear from the public if the council so chooses. Okay. All right. Any further discussion on this? Council member Hughes. [52:43] **Council Member Steven Hughes:** Um, Mr. Copy, have we had a horticulture specialist look at the trees so that we know what's dead, what's not dead? You said one of them's been hollowed out. Have we looked at all three of them? And can we say—can we bring that information that same—can we have that information at the same time as part of the discussion? [53:01] **Paul Copy:** Uh mayor, members of the council, yes, we have had um horticulturists look at it. We'll—like I said, the the one next to the building has some damage. Uh a couple of the other ones have some have had some significant branches that have broken off in storms or just through um natural causes. Um but we can definitely bring that report back. [53:19] **Council Member Kevin Edberg:** Thank you, Mayor. Um, so, Council Member West, what would be the scope? Okay, you've proposed a motion to discuss the trees in the parking lot. Legitimate topic. Totally fine. I have no issue with that. What I would like to kind of raise to the—to all of our consciousness—is that issues of trees in the community have popped up in at least six or seven different places in the last—since last summer. [53:57] **Council Member Kevin Edberg:** So, just to mention some of them, we've got the trees in the—in the uh ACE parking lot. We have um a major ash tree removal process. We have a rem—uh restructuring of ordinances about trees on boulevards. We have had our environmental commission working on the removal of buck—buckthorn trees. Hanley's Lake was the most recent area for that. Uh and they're looking to repeat that in conjunction with our—I don't remember if VADMO or one of—one of the watershed districts. Um we've had some does—discussion about um uh replanting and encouraging private action to replant in areas that are not on boulevards. [54:44] **Council Member Kevin Edberg:** So the point is we—we've had a whole lot of individual topics coming up that you might—all fall under the conversation of urban forestry. Now, I'm not suggesting that we all need to take on all of those at one time, but at least in terms of how we invite the comment to public, uh, excuse me, invite the public to comment, do we want to be so narrow as to say the only input that we're really looking for is three burr oak trees that happen to be really old. Um, or is this an opportunity to kill—well, let's not kill—uh, okay. Kill two birds with one stone. Let's have—let's get a bunch of conversation on a variety of tree—of tree related topics that inform how we think about all of these other stuff because I seem to recall that the Boulevard ordinance is coming up. There there's other things. So anyway, how do we manage multiple aspects of a similar topic? And I don't have a strong recommendation other than to note I have a really strong impulse to want to encourage a lot more replanting—planting and replanting of trees in the community to uh restore our—our urban tree shed. So whatever form that takes, however we go about that, there's a whole bunch of things to think and talk about. But if we're going to ask for input, what input do we ask for? [56:16] **Mayor:** Council Member West, if I could just comment on the process first and then I'll let you respond to the exact question. U the way I understood this was it is a discreet public hearing to that narrow topic and just so the public knows what my thinking is. Um and I've made it very clear what my position is. I think parking trumps the trees. But um I also want the council to make an informed decision and participate in whatever public process that they think will help them make an informed decision. So because I have received eight or 10 emails on this particular topic—which is different from any other tree issue whether it's emerald ash borer or buckthorn—and because u one of my colleagues asked for it and thought it was important, I thought we would air it out. But my understanding going into this is this is narrowly tailored towards these particular trees in the downtown area which elevates the level of controversy and passion behind it. Good bad otherwise that's just the reality. [57:12] **Mayor:** Um, so in the interest of being fair and transparent to the public, that's why I was open to giving the council the decision to decide or not whether or not the public hearing would help inform their decision. And I would urge the council to ask themselves that: would it be, if you're still undecided, would it be of benefit to you to hear from the public? And if so, then it would make sense to have it. If your mind is made up, then I don't want to go through the exercise just for the sake of having the exercise. It's so the council can make an informed decision. That's my thinking, but I'll let Council Member West answer your question what her thinking is. [57:51] **Council Member Heidi West:** Well, having um just heard about this idea, um you know, I think to um the mayor's point, the questions um and concerns have specifically been about these trees in the ACE parking lot. Not to say that um the overall like forestry, you know, topic as a whole and and wanting to have more trees um isn't valuable because I think that's a valuable conversation. Um I just I'm not sure that bringing that into that conversation—like I'm I'm concerned that it would kind of muddy the um specific um the specific um piece about those trees. [58:44] **Lindy Crawford:** Please, mayor. Uh, council members, if I may just add, we have yet to bring you that ordinance for um trees and and boulevard trees and our EAB program, but there absolutely will be opportunity for public comment during that. I would um I I would agree with Council Member West. And you know, we don't have that language drafted yet. So perhaps uh an opportunity for public comment once that language is available to get really good feedback um dedicated to kind of boulevard trees and and our EAB plan may be beneficial when we're when when we're at that bridge. [59:13] **Mayor:** Just one clarifying question for Council Member West. Um if this motion request is you want to hear from the public, that's fine. But I I do want to understand whether or not—cuz frankly my understanding going into this is different from what the reality is. I thought the presumption was the trees were coming down and that was the decision and was this a mechanism to bring the discussion before the council to make that decision or in addition to that to have the public hearing. I ask because those are two different things. Whether or not this was going to be brought up before the council and whether or not we want to solicit comment from the public. [1:00:03] **Council Member Heidi West:** Um I think that there was um an understanding that there would be the ability to have public comment about um the parking lot trees or or the parking lots. Um when I think what was—what was communicated was the whole like kind of parking um and rehab of the downtown streets there would be public comment. So I think people assumed that there would be time to do that and um so I just I just want to give the space to do that and and I myself like um I haven't decided that um one way or another. So I really would like to hear from the community. [1:00:41] **Mayor:** Fair enough. Uh any further discussion on this? Council member Edberg. [1:00:46] **Council Member Kevin Edberg:** Yeah. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. So, I'm totally fine with the a narrow um scope of conversation. Um I'll signal to the—my colleagues and to the—to the community that this bigger—there is a bigger issue of the urban forest—that uh is coming. Well, uh let's make use of some of these other planned opportunities to to learn about that and think about what—what do we strive to be? Because I don't think this is the same tree city that we were approved in 1961. Um the t time has taken its—a—taken its toll so we can have those conversations at another time. Specifically regarding the trees in the parking lot. I welcome feedback. I've been reading all the emails as have others. Um I'm curious. I'm looking for feedback on why these three trees merit special attention. We cut down 150 year old trees all the time in this country for all kinds of reasons. Um, and what is the unique contribution of these particular trees? Um, and I guess I'm—I'm looking for feedback on that particular question. What—that particular aspect—I recognize they were probably here about the time our city was incorporated. That's how old they are. Um, so there's—there's something meaningful to that. Beyond that, is there anything else that merits our attention? So that's what I'm listening for. [1:02:19] **Mayor:** Okay. All right. Any further discussion on this? Okay. We have a motion before us to order a public hearing at the first council meeting in April to solicit comment from the public as to whether or not to preserve or cut down the trees in the ACE parking lot. All those in favor say I. Any opposed? The motion carries. We will have a public hearing at the next council meeting regarding the trees. Thank you. All right. Item 10, communication from the city manager. [1:02:58] **Lindy Crawford:** Uh, mayor, members of the council, uh, we have a fire—or citizens fire academy—um coming up. Uh, it starts on um, April 2nd. There's still space for people to uh, review um, or sign up rather uh, through our website. So, I encourage if anyone's interested in learning more about our fire department um, to go ahead and sign up. This is the first one that we've had in quite some time. I don't have a date, but it's been quite a while. So, please uh everybody sign up. That's all I have. [1:03:25] **Mayor:** Thank you. All right. Thank you, Miss Crawford. All right. We are—I'm going to read something in a minute which will bring us into close session, but I haven't given my welcome to the high school student spiel in a few meetings because we've been distracted with other things. So, um what you're about to be asked to leave for is something that's unique that doesn't typically happen at council meetings. Um, we're about to go into close session, which is a a limited circumstance under which we get to um have discussions outside of the the public ears and outside of the open meeting law where we have to have meetings before the public. And it's narrowly tailored typically towards matters of litigation that are before the city. And that's what we're about to enter into. So, you get to experience that that some of your students that have fellow students that have been to the council meeting before have not. [1:04:15] **Mayor:** Uh I just want to say thank you for being here. Um 22 years ago I sat where you were sitting for Mr. Malum's class and completed the same assignment. So I say that to all the students to let you know that you never know um what—uh what—what comes of your future. I encourage you whether it's you run for mayor or city council or volunteer on one of the citizen advisory commissions to participate in local government because it's often forgotten in a world where we see what's going on at the federal level or at the state level it gets all the attention but at the local level here that is u where the really really important stuff happens like who shows up when you call 911 and how quickly they get there whether clean water comes out of your faucet whether you got a bunch of potholes all over your road. [1:04:57] **Mayor:** So, I'm biased because I'm the mayor, but I think it's pretty darn important. I think it's the best level of government, and I really do encourage you to participate in one way, shape, or form um as you as you get older or right now. There are volunteer opportunities for you right now. So, um before we go into close session, I know you guys need some papers signed. So, if you want to come up and do that quickly, um now would be a good time to do that.