[Music] thank you [Music] we'll call the city council regular meeting to order for Monday August 7 2023 would everyone please stand for the Pledge of Allegiance of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all foreign councilmember Porter here councilmember Wilson here mayor Hoyt here all right is there any changes to the agenda not Nick Holly Katie all right seeing no changes I would look for a motion to approve the agenda so moved second motion by Katie second by Steve on favor say aye aye aye all right bear with me here for a second you got your agenda I'm backed out all right moving on to item number six which is our citizen comments um because there are because we have a item on the agenda that is a public hearing uh the citizen comments portion of the agenda would be reserved for any items not on the agenda so if there's anyone here that is wanting to speak not on the Great Oaks cup application this would be the time to do it yes sir please state your name and address David pripsloff 20255 Aiken Road bear with me on the time because I've got a lot of questions and I left the family vacation North or Brainerd at three o'clock to come to this meeting to get some plants across and I'm going to go right back to that family vacation so I put my due time in I'd like to thank one council member because I emailed all of them councilmember Nick stop by my house one time to take a look at the mess that's going on out there that was the only one that stopped to give us anything my first question is when did the council approve that project month would be fine when did you approve the project this is not the time that the council would get into dialogue okay well we'll we'll have unfortunately from my last meeting I never got no response so I don't know if that system has been changed since I was on the council but I got no response from the last time so I thought it'd be prudent to kind of wait for the answers here now I'm not sure if protocol has changed or not we will have the administrator and the Public Works director follow up with you after this meeting okay so that's the first question is when did the council approve it the second question is what did the council approve as far as that project because when I called John the city engineer back when you know at the last meeting we were here there was a letter sent out to us without not sufficient notice I was told that project was a Mill and overlay it's a full reconstruct and I'd like to know where the dollars came for that because for me if I'm told I'm pretty sure it's in the minutes if we're all told it's a Mill and overlay and it's x amount of dollars as soon as you go to a full reconstruct it's probably going to be double that amount how do you how do we get to that point because they are Milling on a Wednesday and a Thursday they did the reclaim they reclaimed everything on a Friday which means they the last part that was left they milled it up to the base and left and I have pictures but if anybody would have came up you said one council member we were left with a dust storm on that Saturday and Sunday now I'm not sure if this is the first project but the cities ran before but it's obviously if we can't put in a contract that when we go down to the base and we're going to have the whole neighborhood full of dust for a weekend no granted I don't know why but at eight o'clock Monday morning the water trucks are out there and watering that but really they didn't give a crap about the residents that live there and pay taxes because we live with it all weekend a major dust storm and it's like I you know if we're going to hire a company to do the to do the work I think the engineering should say hey we need to do certain things to keep our residents you know at least enjoyable and have a life that we can live outside our outside our houses on a weekend like that was that was just terrible um so that was the dust Patrol the little overlay the cost and the funding of it I mean go back to the funding you know we we threw in this bike path that we and this is again something I didn't get any response from the last time but we seal coated that within the last three years and now we tore the whole bike path up well we normally don't do that but we did now and because we got State funding to do it well that bike pass is like a highway and the Aiken Road itself looks like 494 and if we don't keep the speeds down it's going to be 494 because that's how fast people are going to go that's how fast people still are going I appreciate the company and the city or whoever had anything to do with getting additional speed limit signs out there and the enforcement they've been doing obviously enforcement can't be everywhere every every time I understand that but I mean just tonight I came home and at my place for a little bit and it's like I even called Morgan it's like the the project manager and said hey your red pickup trucks are going about as fast as everybody else so if you can't if we can't keep the company that's doing the work abiding by the speed limit how do we expect anybody else so that's you know but that was that that that issue when it comes to the speed I certainly hope we have a plan in place already for the speed on that road has that been discussed at all is that going to go back to 45 miles an hour because if it does several spots one closest to me is 203rd street but I know it's at 198th and I know it's at a couple other places that they put a concrete pad on the bike side on the bike trail on the trail side of the road with I forget the proper terminology but with the little bumpy things for the blind to go across they're on both sides of the road do you have anything slated to put crosswalks at any of those we'll get that answer too if you either way whether you put a crosswalk there or you don't you've given a lot of people a false sense of security of Crossing that road now because now you're telling them the cross over here because you got you've got a concrete pad and they think they can cross across whether it's a kid an adult or whatever and if we're going to have go back to the speed there's going to be deaths on that road and unlike in some cases we need to curb that before there is one not a certain number we need to curb that before there's one because what we did there is we just made a trap for people to do that and there's no development I mean development's not going to happen on this side I get it when future development happens you put those things in but and I get to that I'll be told this because there's State funding here which I don't know why we ran to the state because it's a city road but you know democratically we got to spend all the kind of money that we got to spend here we tore up a bike path that didn't need to be tore up looks like we widened it quite a bit it's 10 feet wide looks like we raised it quite a bit too right across from my road they put three feet of fill in there I like to know what's going to happen to that fill when they pull the silt fence out I'll tell you what's going to happen it's going to erode and just go right down the hill along with probably one of your plow trucks in the in the wintertime because it's just you you have to put a retain wall if you're going to put three feet of fill in something to put something on top of it you need a retaining wall amount of silt fence because the silt fences will come out and this stuff is just going to erode right down that hill and I'm not kidding you there's three feet of fill going on that road why there's so much concrete curved gutter from across me North me to south of me I don't understand that I mean unless there's some favoritism the people that live down that road I mean even they got a little additional fill and bass going down that road because where it has it they're going to pick they're going to pave that the road and saw all those to the five houses down there oh I do know there's somebody that lives down there that does work for Mac Miller and I hope we're not getting you know better treatment over on that side than we are on the other side another thing I was told by the engineer is that I want to ask the question why did we tear up the bike the path well we've had a couple residents you know concerned about the drainage and everything with with the bike pass takes a couple residents to change a whole bike path yeah a couple residents on the other side me and myself neighbor talked to John and another or Morgan and another guy out there as to why the Culvert that 203rd street wasn't fixed yeah the whole thing dug up all you had to do is put a culvert across on on the one side on the North side 200 and 3rd Street it's just again the old Culvert flat you know a half half of uh Culvert that's cut in half at an angle but on the South Side big old brand new end on it with all the fill in there and all the all the dirt we just kind of doing a half a job we don't fix what we could have when we had it you know if we want to say we put in these concrete pads for future developments we don't have to tear it up we probably should have fixed the Culver before we even went forward we just are wasting money at it um Dave just like the excuse me just like the last meeting when we met after the meeting and discussed it with the engineer I can't do that that time I'm not going to give up my family vacation I've already given up six hours of it just to come to this meeting and get my point across I obviously see that you know and I enjoyed the time that you know and appreciate the time that I had last time after the meeting this time I'm not going to do it but then I say I'm coming here with no answers from that last meeting it really doesn't do me a lot of good to stick around more and waste more of my vacation because I had to come here tonight to get these planes across to wait another two weeks I just think going farther down the line doesn't get me nowhere so I put my time in to come here to get my point across hopefully this time I'll get answers but I'd like to get back to what I what I was doing before I came here today yeah Mr Mayor uh we'll provide a written response uh this time uh some of these questions we thought we had answered last time but we will prepare a written response to all the questions I'm noting here such that they're they're fully documented can we make sure that we send it signature required so that we ensure that it makes it certainly to mrsoff yep appreciate it because then that was one of the things that I had to talk to Morgan about is I did call John one day when I came home from work backed into my drive and my mailbox is laying out I was dumbfounded why we're pulling mailbox out on my side of the road I just we're making the 494 out there and we're going wider we're going farther into people's property and then when my mailbox creates pulled out I'm kind of wondering how far are you guys to come into my property and it's obviously and also he said call Morgan I call Morgan and it's like well we need them out so when they come down with the paper they they they're not in the way well he said your mailbox is up a couple two three house I think is that 20235 and we went out there and it's like our number wasn't on it so whoever was in charge of putting the temporary mailboxes with numbers on it ours wasn't there so we you know I called Morgan he said I'll get that fixed tomorrow so the next day somebody had to crack that but and that kind of goes to my other point I don't when I pay my taxes part of my taxes comes to the city none of it goes to macular Construction I and I talked to Morgan about this I'm like it seems to me like why should I be told to call the project manager I don't pay taxes him they didn't engineer to me they didn't engineer the job they're just you know the project they're doing it if I have a question in which I have done call the city talk talk the engineer then told to call Morgan and it's like that's straight on the phone I don't think that's fair I don't pay tax to you guys I think we have an engineer that Engineers this project and has all these details that's the way she'd get it from but obviously that's not the way it works we'll go through we'll make sure that all the questions get answered we'll provide you with documentation that's been requested and we'll make sure that it comes to you as expeditiously as we can I don't believe that's the end of the conversation well I think there's more to that so we'll definitely we'll pick up in that area okay can anybody answer the the question they asked you as soon as they're done putting the wear course on are we pulling the 30 mile an hour speed limits or are we going to do some kind of evaluation before they're pulled and go back because obviously we've you know it's been said before if we pull those and go back to a 45 it's going to be a lot harder to come back to what we want I mean I'm not saying it needs to be 30 out here but the way this road is and I get it I had said it last time I've been through those Street those speed studies watch what you asked for I get that but this is a a road that looks like 494 now and whatever the speed was before it's going to be higher we have areas out there that are more urban District than they were before we have a lot of places where we're we're expecting people to cross over to that path and I you know whether it's a 35 or 40 you know I I think we need to come down a little bit it's a city room I think you guys have the jurisdiction of that and uh I'd like to see that you know something happened with that before or you know those signs the speed limits taken taken down because it's going to be a lot harder going the other way we will address that as well because there are conversations that have taken place since uh our last meeting here so and if there's any workshops or anything that deals with that if I can be if that area can be notified to come to a workshop that'd be great because like I say this whole project we had a workshop last year but this year it seemed like it was full steam ahead and to me I you know I can wait for the answer but when I was told that it was Milling overlay after the first two days of the Milling I went for a walk and when I got down the 208th Street it was down to the base it reminded me of a project that we did when I was on the council it was a sunny side project but sure Wilson you're probably well aware of that project we had all over her face because we had an engineer engineering firm at that time that didn't do any borings out there and then when they milled one inch of asphalt they were down to the base and we had the fix that the right way well that's what I kind of thing happened here is if I were told it was a no overlay and we change it to a full reconstruct because at one area we go down to the base that's where the funding and how fast we get funding comes into it it just now comes to the question what did the council approve and if it's if there's something that at some point in time that you guys did approve as far as the paperwork I'd like to have a copy of that so I know what you approve because you either approved of no no really or you've approve the full reconstruct either approved it for let's say three million dollars or six million dollars it's one or the other because to me I think it got changed Midstream based on what I what I saw there and obviously I had had experience back with it when I was on the council thank you David we'll get all the all the questions the documentation that you've asked for we'll get it to you and like I said in an expeditious Manner and we'll make sure that all the questions are answered all right thank you thank you is there anyone else you like to speak for an item not on the agenda sir please state your name and address my name is Mark McLaughlin my address is 4825 203rd Street West I'm the neighbor just south of David um so I don't have a lot more to say except my property uh is of up and suffered water damage from flooding from the ditch and now it's been made worse and I've seen absolutely no improvements on the west side of Aitkin road with all these now I get from grass I go from grass to concrete now I'm going to have to go from grass to gravel and the road is widened so this the incline down into the ditch that drains towards my property allows me about uh it's I measured it it's about eight inches level until it reaches my Foundation I've done probably four to five thousand dollars worth of landscaping around my house because of the flooding that I get not from the torrential rains uh that we haven't had so far this summer in Farmington but from the torrential rains we get in February because the uh snow plows fill up that ditch I went out there last winter because the ditch was starting to fill up after that rain we had and then it got really really cold and everything started to freeze well it was backing into my into my yard in this few years before I had eight inches of water in my yard and water flowing into my Foundation so now I see this happening I see absolutely nothing doing to improve my issue I see all these major improvements to my neighbors across the road both sides I'm gonna you know I pay taxes here my wife and I are retired we're on a fixed income you know that took a big chunk out of our savings to fix that so I wouldn't have water in my basement every winter and now you're doing this to me but hopefully we can find a way with the engineers solve this problem but the one thing that David brought up that I really want to bring I'm retired I'm out in my yard every day the traffic down that street not only does it go way over the speed limit it's mostly I would say 40 percent of them are on their phones distracted and my wife and I have been working on our Gardens out in the east side there and I have seen so many close calls with young children women with a carriage behind their bicycle because someone's going too fast down that road and they're not looking you know how much time it takes to get over that little rise coming down Aiken road heading south to get to that place where you're going to put that safe intersection for the kids go across less than five seconds at 50 miles an hour yeah you tell me a kid can get out of the way for that you have to put some sort of pedestrian overpass so you can get all the people that are on the west side of this wonderful Trail that's on the other side of I like what Dave said 494. think about that a safe pedestrian overpass over that road solves all your problems thank you will you make sure that um we have his information and okay thank you Carolyn you can come up you're good I'm Caroline Ryan 208 Walnut Street and um I won't talk more than two minutes promise but my concern is in some of the neighbors is the condition of the homes that are downtown and so um I guess we'd like it looked at the lines I'm getting mowed um but there's property where windows are being broken I see there's someone put something on one of the doors now so you can't get in the front we can still get in the back they're empty how you know one's an empty house and and there's some other it's not keeping our downtown looking like it should or like it did okay Carolyn if you if you would um either connect with Lynn our administrator and if there's I'm not expecting it in all the addresses but you very much well may uh if you just get a list of the properties that you're aware of to land and then we can go through chord uh through um uh code enforcement and just see yeah we'd appreciate that plus the sidewalks getting um plowed in the winter because we're down you know we're so close to downtown and that everything's getting plowed and shoveled especially getting onto the street so absolutely the neighborhood would appreciate it thank you thank you ma'am anyone else for non-agenda items all right seeing none we'll move on to item seven which is our consent agenda we look for a motion to approve the consent agenda motion second motion by Nick second by Holly all in favor say aye aye aye all right moving on to our public hearings uh the next agenda item is a public hearing for the appeal of a Planning Commission decision regarding a conditional use permit for expansion of a charter school within the B2 zoning District I'd like to open the public hearing at this time and Tony go ahead and proceeded thank you mayor council members uh yes before you this evening is a pl2a Planning Commission decision that was held in June the Planning Commission uh reviewed a application for conditional use permit for Great Oaks Academy at 115 Elm Street in order to allow them to expand at that location the Planning Commission took two uh votes that evening the first one was to allow for the expansion on or within the what is called the Great the at-bat space which is attached to the existing School location and then the that uh was approved by the Planning Commission with the four uh with a unanimous vote the second action was to uh review the um east side of the site where the existing strip center is located uh with that proposal uh Great Oaks was proposing to switch that or renovate that strip center into uh Middle School classrooms at a gymnasium at a courtroom or not courtroom uh like a plaza if you will outside the plank Mission did take a vote on that it died at a 2-2 vote so it was essentially uh denied at that point per code the applicant has 10 days from the date of that decision to appeal that decision to the city council if we did receive that Appeal on June 20th and from that day from that date the council has 60 days to hold a public hearing regarding that appeal hence that's why we're here this evening um do you want to mention that staff did have six conditions that were um staff was recommending approval of basically the conditional use permit at the Planning Commission as part of that we had six conditions um which are outlined in your memo um I don't know if I I won't go through those unless you want me to but they're in there for your uh consideration also in your memorandum I did include kind of a timeline for the various approvals that are actions if you will that were part of the Great Oaks um expansion at that site they did receive a conditional use permit in January of 2022 and that was to occupy the existing grocery store at 115 Elm Street then on February 10 2023 they did apply for amendment to that original cop to a lot of expansion of school at that same location March 14th the plane commission opened the public hearing and took testimony on that conditional use permit at which time they kept they did continue that public hearing to the April 11 2023 regular meeting at that April 11th meeting playing commission closed the public hearing and voted 4-0 to deny that requested cup um May 11th uh Great Oaks uh then reapplied for Amendment to the original cup this application included revised plans based on discussion that had previously happened at that Planning Commission meeting uh then on May 30th uh we did hold a special Planning Commission meeting with Great Oaks Academy a general discussion occurred regarding the site and use of the property no action was taken at that meeting and then on June 13th of this year the plane commission did open the public hearing and took testimony on that reapplied conditional use permit the plan commission as I mentioned took two votes they voted 4-0 to approve the expansion into the former at bad space and then denied the East Side expansion as part of that with a failed vote of two to two as I had mentioned on June 20th the city did receive the appeal of the playing commission decision uh and that is attached and this evening is the actual uh public hearing for that appeal the action that is requested uh this evening is to hold the required public hearing upon closing the public hearing staff recommends that the city council approve the appeal thereby approving the requested cup with the conditions outlined in the playing commission staff report and adopt by motion the attached resolution of approval thank you sir so at at this time Leah do you want to do yours first or sure yeah just briefly to let everyone know that councilmember Porter has chosen to recuse herself she'll be up on the Deus but won't be participating in the deliberations or the vote thanks and then at this time Council will um direct questions towards staff regarding the recommendation the stipulations or the conditions of the approval if proposed but prior to that for those watching and for those in attendance there's a few notes that I want to get out there on the record first and foremost for those that don't have background or context uh we have our zoning code and our ordinances this has been determined by both the Planning Commission the city council it lays out proposed uses and there's a list of permitted and conditional uses within each zoning District a conditional use is a listed specific type of structure or land use that may be allowed but only after review and with appropriate conditions or restrictions as provided in the zoning ordinance that approval is obtained through a conditional use permit that is a permit that is issued by the Planning Commission in accordance with procedures specified in this title as a flexibility device to enable the commission to assign to assign Dimensions to a proposed use or the conditions surrounding it after con after consideration of adjacent areas and their functions and the special problems which the proposed use presents for example in a B2 District which this subject parcel is in examples of conditional uses are automotive repair major automotive repair Miner bed and breakfast brew pubs child day care center convenience store with gas Dental Laboratories apartment dwellings funeral homes grocery stores hotels I could continue to read the long list but one of them being public and parochial schools so this is a conditional use application and a permit and an appeal regarding a subject parcel that is within the zoning guidelines that have already been previously approved by the Planning Commission and city council during this process it is the job of the council to listen to the appeal staff recommendation and also public testimony which is why this is a public hearing it is important that the purview of this deliberation stay within the conditional use guidelines and our city code 103-5 under conditional uses specifically States conditional uses as specified with within each zoning District may be allowed or denied by the board of adjustment in accordance with the criteria and Provisions listed herein the board of adjustment May establish any reasonable conditions of approval that are deemed necessary to mitigate adverse impacts associated with the conditions of use to protect neighboring properties and to achieve the objectives elsewhere in this title at conditional use shall be approved if it is found to meet the following criteria the proposed use conforms to the district permitted and conditional use provisions and all General regulations of this title number two the proposed use shall not involve any element or cause any conditions that may be dangerous injurious or noxious to any other property or persons and shall comply with the performance standards listed in this provision number three the proposed use shall be constructed designed cited and orientated and landscaped to produce harmonious relationship of buildings and grounds to adjacent buildings and properties number four the proposed you shall produce a total visual impression an environment which is consistent with the environment of the neighborhood number five the proposed you shall organize vehicular access and parking to minimize traffic congestion in the neighborhood and last number six the proposed use shall preserve the objectives of this title and shall be consistent with the comprehensive plan at this time council member Wilson if you have any questions for Tony or any other staff I have not okay council member burnetts I have naughty um Tony just for clarity can you list the reasons given for denial from the Planning Commission do you know that off the top of your head the reasons for denial essentially revolved around traffic and safety uh in and around the site from you that's it Tony the only question I have for you um goes to the criteria under the recommendation that staff is making to approve the cup and that is number four as listed in the pack it says westbound right turn Lanes must be constructed at the intersections of Elm Street and 1st Street and the school private access within two years of the cup approval the turn Lanes must meet County approval um to date please correct me if I'm wrong we have reached out to County staff and we have not received a determination as to whether or not those proposed turn Lanes would meet County approval at this time that's correct okay thank you sir uh if I ask one question absolutely um with regard to that I did have one written down that first street right turn lane um currently there probably isn't a whole lot of give to create that without getting into the right-of-way or the the property of that building on the corner is that something that can be done without acquiring that property I don't know that I have that answer um being that there hasn't been any design done for the turn Lanes um so I don't know that I have a good answer for you on the present road construction one could not be without modifying the curve right the road is not wide enough there correct they would have to modify the curve correct thank you all right any other questions for Tony or staff maybe not all right so then at this time we'll ask the applicant to come up and present any information that you'd like to my name is Paul McGlynn I'm the director of Great Oaks Academy my name is Colin O'Neil with the expansion team and the Great Oaks parent we just want to address some of the concerns around the traffic safety and I'm going to let Cullen uh address those for you um so one of the things too before getting into that is to highlight a few things um that Mr wippler mentioned as part of the process um so as you mentioned we were in front of the Planning Commission in March originally and then again in April um that was our first application which was denied and then we put in a second application I want to highlight a few things that we addressed in that second application which is the one being heard here tonight and as part of our appeal um so one of the things and and we took the Planning Commission feedback that was given verbally and in their findings of fact and made sure that we addressed those concerns in our second application um so one of those was they asked us to show the full K-12 build out which we did and that includes up to a maximum enrollment of 840 students so that is three classroom or sections of k through eight and then two of grades nine through twelve to get to that maximum of 840 students we included a estimated projected enrollment growth year over year from now until when we would reach that number and that's included in our application one of the things too is they were concerned about sight lines through the property there are two properties to the north of us and so we originally had the gym oriented across the property and we shifted that and so we shifted it to the north of the retail strip center um have the future high school as part of that gymnasium Edition and then shifted it as far east as we could to maintain sight lines and so the other thing too is that will allow us to um oh you're getting that ready yeah I've got the I've got the bigger one and so uh by shifting those buildings to the north um it allows us to I think address the aesthetic concerns sight line concerns and make sure that we're constructing an addition that is complementary to the surrounding buildings to the surrounding properties and allows for better traffic through traffic flow through the site um we also provided an updated traffic study that was for full K-12 enrollment that was included included in our application uh we provided a traffic flow plan which we can put up here on the screen too if needed and I'll talk more about that that traffic flow plan is for parent pickup and drop-off and then we also address some safety concerns so you can see here we have two crosswalks between the current elementary school and the courtyard space and the the properties there to the East and so those two core those two crosswalks excuse me would be for minimal Crossing of staff and students between the properties the courtyard there creates a nice Avenue for passage between the two buildings and that courtyard would not be used for recess or any kind of play like that there would be a fence on the west side there and around the South will have bollards and that will be for more educational space and just some outdoor space and again to allow a continuity between the two buildings and make sure that any any staff or student using that space would be well protected and during those heavy times where we have traffic for parent pickup and drop off and anytime throughout the day any Crossing there will be monitored there'll be crossing guards making sure that people are getting across safely Elementary School students would be not even having to cross and only potentially older students would need to cross at certain times middle schoolers and high schoolers [Music] um and that that would that would be a limited Crossing as of 25 26 we would have middle schoolers having a separate route a separate time coming to the school they wouldn't need to cross anymore and then we would hope to have the gymnasium built at that time and actually have a food service at that site too so the crossing would be a nearly eliminated except for rare circumstances by 2526. um so with regards to the traffic flow um one of the big things that's changing for us this coming fall is that we're going to have dedicated buses up until now we haven't had those we've been sharing and so we will have five uh dedicated buses for Great Oaks Academy starting this fall and what that allows us to do is to optimize the pickup of farmington's students and their families in the Farmington Community and that will minimize the amount of Farmington parents that are doing drop off and pickup we also will have one of those buses doing pickup and drop off at a Lakeville site so that parents from Lakeville and the surrounding area can do a drop off and pick up not at this location one of the things I wanted to highlight is that our car count this past year on average was about 180 cars per day you know 180 in the morning 180 in the afternoon and we were able to manage that by doing two stages based just on alphabetical vehicle and so that we really were able to be efficient it took some some practice in those first couple weeks but we got very efficient at circulating that traffic through the site so that was our car count was 180. with having five dedicated buses um our car count for this coming year will actually be reduced even though our enrollment is growing our car count will be reduced to around 129 cars on average even in the following year as we continue to steadily grow we will be able to also add more dedicated buses as we do that again limiting the amount of car traffic that has to circulate through the site in fact we estimate that we won't actually get back to that 180 car count until our final year of growth when we reach our full Max enrollment so if we were able to do it uh last year we will certainly be able to do it uh going forward I'd like to address your two call it I've been working with Marshall lines and part of our struggle in the beginning was the economy of size we weren't able to afford dedicated buses for our own routes so we were finding routes that fit around other districts that meant we couldn't provide as as many students with bussing and parents drove as I worked with Marshall lines we're already working on a possible second bus for pickup this year it's not likely we'll get it but we are working towards that so we could pick up even more students in Lakeville every year that we do that as we Outreach further we will have more buses and we will lean heavily into parents to use those buses in order to reduce the number of car drop-offs so I think what we've put here is a fairly conservative estimate at this point of what we could reduce it to so yeah and with the traffic flow you know we presented a traffic flow in our application and that was reviewed by third party traffic or Transportation engineer and included in the traffic study and their determination was that could absolutely work and of course City staff reviewed it as well and is recommending approval that said you know we are um more than willing and wanting to work with the city county City and the county going forward to to maintain a long-term and sustainable traffic flow plan if if something were to need to change a few years from now or even in the short term we would be more than happy to to work through that um there are multiple ways to circulate traffic through the site the what we the one we presented is the one that we believe works best and and we know that it will work but we are more than willing to continue to work with the city in the county going forward on that um we believe that our our application um meets all the city ordinances required for approval of the conditioning's permit um there are things that we discussed in previous Planning Commission meetings that we'd be happy to go over again if needed and we for sure want to answer any questions that you all have of us I guess I would just like to include for myself personally I like I said a Great Oaks Academy parent of two to both my kids go there um I just want to say how much of a positive impact it has had on our family and our kids and I just know how much it has impacted um not only just all the students that have come to the school all the parents the staff but we believe that we're having a positive impact on the community as well and we really want to be a long-term um you know strong part of the Farmington downtown area and the Farmington Community and have a a positive impact on on Farmington this this cup application for us is really critical it allows us to continue to grow and to have educational and recreational space for our current students as they grow older that's our model just as our current students grow older we want to have space for them and then we just bring in a class of incoming kindergarteners each year and so we we need this space to facilitate that growth to have space for our current students and those future students as well thank you thank you all right at this time uh Council if you have any questions or comments for our applicant ali uh I actually do have a couple of questions um one of the things that you brought up was um the capacity for vehicles right now for 22 and 23 being at 180 and that dropping down to 120 and then only seeing that come back up to the 180 in your final year of of growth which I presume is when you're seeing your Juniors and seniors coming in or at least your seniors what is your projected and I'm sorry my my uh form here keeps tapping out at page 43 so I think it's after page 43 and I'm not getting there what is your projected enrollment for 11th and 12th grade uh 48 so or excuse me 48 for each 96 total 96 total and so with with that increase of only 60 vehicles that presumes that a percentage of them are bus riders or what is the plan for parking for those students and for their transportation needs that's a great question we're going to put a cap on the number of students that can drive to school 11th and 12th grade so it'll have to be some form of Lottery system and there'll be a cap on those that can drive to school yeah and that's that's included in here as well that cap is right around I think 30 and then 40 and 50 50 being the max um and so that's something that we'll continue to evaluate we won't have 11th and 12th graders for I think four more years because again we're not going to be adding them they will it will be our current seventh graders that that you know when they get to that age so yeah we'll have a cap on the number of uh student drivers that can park on the site okay then my my second question has to do with the um the traffic patterning that I had seen in one of the documents here shows that the patterning that you're expecting has at least from what I could see on the document the majority of vehicles coming in westbound making a right hand turn or they're coming from the intersection of uh Elm Street making a right-hand turn into the parking lot and then leaving um in another Direction how how are you planning to manage that is is that the extent of the traffic plan and how are you planning to manage that and what about left-hand turn entrances yeah I'll put I'll put up what we have here in our application so right yep and this this is just for parent pickup and drop off just for Great Oaks traffic during those times public traffic and normal just during the day traffic will just come in straight to the property so this is really focused just on that pickup and drop off so this is basically what we did this past year with the exception of the short Loop there for the middle school because we we didn't have that of course so coming in on First and queuing in front of the building and then exiting down back onto Elm and so again we were able to do this with 180 cars and so we'll certainly be able to do it going forward with less and as we go back to 180 we also do say like I said we do staggered times and we'll continue to do staggering to keep that traffic flow very efficient and moving we will have in the current year coming up we will have a b c pickup and then the current year after that we're going to look at an ABCD pickup that separates the number of cars coming to pick up and it's worked very well where when parents know this is the time they can arrive and and we're pretty strict about that so that does decrease the traffic flow considerably okay those are my only questions right now I have known that you asked I was going to ask okay nothing nothing all right councilman Wilson I do I have a slew of questions is your traffic engineer happy to be here at the traffic study person here today yes or no he is not okay so um you know just kind of a quick broad comment um does a charter school have to follow the Minnesota Department of Education guide for planning con construction projects in the state of Minnesota now granted a portion of the west side of course is already constructed but for new construction is that a guide that isn't that is important for a charter school to be aware of I'm not absolutely sure the question you're asking but I'll give you the best answer I know which is that for instance coming to this year because of the at-bat is an adjacent building to the building we're in the footprint we're in we don't need a guide or permission from mde I make them aware of it they know it if it's a separate it's what they would consider us a separate site let's say we were building away from 115 Elm Street then mde would need an application called a second site application this is considered a one-site area so at this point we can move forward with the construction as long as we're not doing a second site does that make sense yep I just wanted to confirm that yeah and part of the reason I pointed that piece of it out is um on page 55 of that particular document it does note under Health life and safety or health and life safety avoid locations with nearby high density freeway commercial or commuter traffic flow avoid noisy congested or environmentally hazardous areas EG near major highways or busy intersections heavy Industries sewage or chemical plants power power and gas lines railroads and or feedlots so I just wanted to note that um Mr McGlynn um going back to and the console up to this point is not seen this formally um I have taken a lot of time to review and make sure that I'm serving the residents while with reviewing really everything dating back to January no 2022 watching all the medians parents have submitted so many amazing you know letters and comments about the school there's you know obviously a lot of uh probably Pro School individuals here others have concerns about it um but one of the questions I wanted to ask you is back at the January 11 22 2022 Planning Commission meeting when this was first being brought up you were having a dialogue with the Planning Commission chair and the Planning Commission chair you know pose the question as you look at this referring to the west side is there anything that you could see in the school and design that you that you say is missing boy I wish I could have that and your response was about 10 acres of Greenland I don't see that as a possibility which you know again I think is not applicable per se to the application but I think it was it was an awareness that this is a very small site for the build out that you were potentially looking at um no formally the city did not see any further activity on the site until February of 2023 um and while our discussion on that grand and glorious day of the ribbon cutting isn't per se evidence one way or the other we did have a really nice dialogue and you pointed out it was either you or one of the individuals with school pointed out that your plan was to you know construct across the whole area which um you know and essentially take over that that Eastern side that's under consideration today and then um that might be incorporated in your high school and middle school as we see depicted here um and of course we didn't formally see that until a few months later back in February so um it just kind of makes me wonder if that was kind of a plan from the beginning and you guys might know that internally um but I just wanted to note that part of it um excuse me in our packet I just want to make sure because I think I understand this in the packet there is a letter from Wellington dated May 12th is that pertaining to the at-bat site only I believe so okay yeah okay that's what I thought all right um um all right I will skip the traffic questions for a second um but those are kind of important ahead I will comment to um do we have a slide up with the transportation plan just really briefly councilmember Wilson this would be a good time for questions for the applicant and then the deliberations can happen oh okay so you know you asked some questions that they seem like they wanted to answer oh okay thank you and then we'll go to college yes I will wait for the and then we'll answer yes okay thanks yeah thank you um um so with regards to the for the first one about this being more of an urban setting I mean there's no doubt about that it is more of an urban setting for a school we don't have 10 acres of you know Green space but um there certainly is presence for schools of this size being in more of an urban setting and we're going to be following you know those best practices and one of those is like like we've been talking about increasing our use of busing busing is just in a really efficient way to obviously get students in and out of the site to reduce the car traffic congestion so we're very aware of of Elm Street being a busy street and we're going to be doing our very best to make sure that we're not adding to that congestion by using busing and staggering our our traffic flow um with regards to to timelines for the build out um you know we were uh at the time of the January um cup January of 2022 the school was in its second year had 190 students the the in open enrollment um in 2022 was in March and was more than we could have ever expected and it caused us to have to react to that enormous um enrollment and so uh we we chose to add more sections uh we we now had the space to do so but more importantly we wanted to make sure that we could accommodate as many of those families and students that wanted to be at Great Oaks as we could and um and we also recognize that that gives an opportunity to bond which is not an opportunity that comes around very often for a charter school and so we had to uh adapt we had to adapt that situation and we knew that one of the consequences of that is that we would be back back here sooner but the plans to grow to the east did not come into play until that happened uh in the fear of being redundant um the speed at which the move was made from bethel's Rock to 115 Elm Street where we renovated the Wellington renovated the grocery store was pretty quick Wellington renovated it under the idea that it'd be a k through eight two grades a piece within the footprint that includes at bat as our numbers Rose quickly and our waitlist swelled we made a decision to meet the needs of the communities around us by adding the grades which is what Collins stated once we added the gate grades to kkk11222 there was clearly we were going to fill that space much quicker than we had anticipated that did put us on the bonding wrote once on the bonding Road council member we did look across to the strip mall yes and it was our intent to move into that strip mall and turn it into a middle school and as well add a gymnasium and a high school that would wrap around that gymnasium so I I don't know if that offers you the origins or the Genesis and as well as the evolution but that is how it occurred so that's where we find ourselves today okay and as a as a follow-up to that January 11th meeting the intent at that meeting based on the presentation was to move the high school into the green space on the North and that would be a two-story building there was talk of that yes there was and there was some the consideration when looked at structurally and with some of the air you know where it is next to adjacent to the uh the nature area um um so that that the cost of building a new structure there uh on that site uh was prohibitive and size wise was prohibitive uh plus if you went up two stories I'm not a engineer but I can let Cullen uh talk about that yeah so so building in that that location was was not going to be feasible from a financial standpoint and just a feasibility standpoint given the the geometry the the how the size and if we were to go up two stories yeah I would have uh we'd have to consider snow load drifts and all these other things on that adjacent building it would make it um detrimental the other thing too is that um in that January 11th meeting that was part of Wellington's conversation that that actually that was not discussed with us prior um so once we took a hard look at where we could grow that location was ruled out I guess I would seek your reaction though I mean it was very clear by Great Oaks Academy staff at that meeting that the high school would be in that North Korean area I mean it was very specifically stated so even moving to the east to begin with was a strong departure and the Planning Commission I believe had to take you know a strong request to actually get the full build out which was presented in May so you know that that delay is unfortunate um I I guess I can't add a comment about that but um based on what I based on what I saw on the video last night as I watched it it was clearly stated that the high school would be um in the you know we'll use the green space where we can enjoy it but that'll be our future high school so there was there was there was no doubt about that well and I think that's what I said that every everything changed when we saw those enrollment numbers in in March of 2022 and recognized that we would have an ability to to bond and and to be a full K-12 school that had three sections of each grade and at the time of that January meeting I don't believe that that location that site for a build out had been thoroughly vetted I I I want to just say I have no doubt I stated that um because we were working under the premise of two grades a piece uh and and that built on the uh what would be the North Lot would have been sufficient but once we went to three grades it was not going to be possible so I'm sure I did state that okay thank you for clarifying that one one question that I read or a question I have pertaining to this traffic study um the traffic study says actually the 2022 one in the and the most recent one they're a little bit different but they say about the same thing um it is noted on the traffic study and Page Three that quote the proposed Great Oaks Academy on the site located north of Elm Street and East of first First Street will generate fewer trips than the previous grocery store use on this site there is no reference to that in the study so I don't know if there's a formal study document that was created are you aware of what the source would have been to have drawn that conclusion yeah I think the transportation engineer is drawing on um experience with these types of building uses I think there are standard numbers being used there for a school of a certain size and a grocery store of a certain size and I will say that the traffic study that was done was intentionally done conservatively assuming sort of worst case conditions for traffic just to show that that could be feasible correct and I'm not trust me I'm not trying to challenge the knowledge and wisdom and the expertise and the metrics that it takes to do a traffic study but what I am trying to figure out is if there is a report out there that would actually validate that statement are you aware of any one that would validate that you know fewer fewer trips than the former grocery store are you aware of any traffic study that would confirm that well we didn't include on our application but we could talk their transportation engineer and and produce that but I will offer you this that in in the short conversation I had with him after I believe it was the second study uh he was talking about cycles of traffic and because the grocery store had certain hours that went all day long the cycle of traffic would in fact produce more traffic throughout the day than we would given our you know morning afternoon being very let's close uh that way I put it shorter Windows of time that would be I think that was part of the thought but I don't want to put that out there until I have that traffic study right in front of me so right and if I if I could make a comment I think that would be probably a very fair statement Mr mcglenn because the only possible conclusion I could get to that comment would be um Family Fresh from 7am to 10 p.m total trips right um but I I the reason I want the traffic engineer here is I don't think it's a relevant comment for our discussion tonight because we are focused on two distinct narrow periods of time agreed yep and that's why we're working to reduce the volume of traffic at those times as much as possible because during the day the traffic is very minimal okay um last question I have I had the luxury back in college of having one of the greatest jobs in the world I was a school bus driver uh transported kids actually throughout Minneapolis throughout the Mounds View School District and the one thing I know is that cars and buses do not mix at all so given that would you describe your phasing of ABC and the Staggering of buses as a transportation plan or as an ideal goal that on paper looks good okay that plan that you the ABC we did a b this year so let's start with talking about drop off I I have a window of time by which the buses drop off and then a much larger window of time by which the parents drop off so they can begin at about 8 A.M and they go to about 8 40 for drop off and about 180 cars that has worked out so that buses when they come in can come down the lane and pull up at the front drop there and the students come out while the parents still are taking the inner Lane I think and dropping off there are times buses arrive in the morning when there are no parents there and they just come right up to the front drop we've not seen any issue though I know what you're talking about because I was a bus driver for three years myself um we've we've tried to mitigate that greatly then when it comes to pick up the buses we have our students all line up a b c d this year so we have bus one two three four they're all lined up ready at the door the buses come one two three four and they're they are they're out and I got a great compliment for Marshall lines they said that was the quickest pickup of any school they had because of the way we did it we were able to get them out of there in a very short period of time and then we don't allow a pickup or B pickup from parents until the buses are all gone once the buses are gone we say parent pickup a all the kids from around the school that are parent pickup a come down to the waiting Zone then we start that we are usually done with that about eight to ten minutes then we call B all the B students come down and we get parent pick up B out the doors so it's very efficient and keeps the buses and the Autos separated this next year we've set a time so that the buses will arrive at three three or three Marshalls trying to get right in round three three we want them gone by 3 10. we're giving ourselves kind of a long window usually we'll take us about to load those buses I'm guessing we'll be out if they get there on time which sometimes be honest with you they can be delayed but when they get there on time we have them all out in about six minutes they line out one two three four the buses pick up they're gone then we'll start parent pickup a pair of pickup B to follow parent pick up C to follow it greatly reduces the flow going and coming in and going out to the to the main street but that's how we're going to do it and then the following year will be an ABCD and in 2526 we'll have staggered times I don't know no getting too much into the weeds here but Middle School will have its own bus pickup time and its own parent pickup time and then you have Elementary have bus and pick up time being different so we're hoping that'll greatly reduce the traffic but to answer your question in short now that I've done it in Long uh yes we've thought about that greatly and we have a very organized plan and we have about in our drop-off in our pickup I mean our drop-off we have 10 to 12 staff that will be out there guiding traffic in and we wear vests orange vests and um we have placards on all the cars we have walkies it's a very efficient system because we know that how we do our business will affect the downtown Farmington businesses and traffic flow so we try to do it very efficiently to make sure that we have the least impact on them that what what would you envision the situation to look like if let's say in a couple years you've got a c parent or a d parent that needs to pick up their son or daughter early and you know they arrive and you know it kind of Goofs up the system yep you know I guess long story short life happens yep how can you how can you truly believe that the plan on paper is going to work out to enable smooth traffic flow throughout the site right is there really a way that you can truly guarantee that 100 percent no but I can tell you this year it worked incredibly well I had the very problem you stated we had the group a group b for the very first few weeks I was out right up where they turn in left and coming you know into them uh First Street there so when parents they have placards it says on their windshield Jones B if Jones B came in when it was a time I would go to Jones B and I'd say I'm so sorry you need to go park in the parking lot and then come back around when you're time is ready I will tell you that there were some parents that were frustrated with that but after doing that for three weeks they realized that we were serious about making this system work we would not allow unless of course it was an emergency and then we asked him to call us ahead of time if you're a b parent you're in B pickup if you're an a parent you're an a pickup otherwise you got to go stop just park in the parking lot and wait till your time comes then you have to come all the way around again and it worked by the time we were into three weeks it was like clockwork they we very rarely had a parents or B parents come during a pickup or uh B parents come during a pickup it really worked well so it does take a uh if you will systems take time for Learning and then you have to have what I would call um fairly consistent and hopefully benevolent enforcement of those systems so that people understand how important it is what I told those parents that were upset I would talk to them I say the city of Farmington has to see that we're serious about working with them and reducing traffic flow because we saw what happened that first day on the very first day of school a b almost all came at the same time we had backup that was not good so that I sent out an email to all our parents that I said we cannot have that happen again we have to have a come when a comes and B comes when B comes and I made clear that if you didn't I would ask you to go around and by they did after a couple weeks of that we had absolute adherence well absolutely we had very strong adherence so uh I think it works really effectively if you communicate with people and you follow through well I think just in some of the important thing is about buses and cars separate at separate times and that like I said we did it this year with 180 cars we will be reducing next year and staying under that number and not reaching it until full enrollment so if you look at the card a student ratio it's going to be continuing to drop every year because of the increased busing with the um current properties outside of the site they do have the option to use either first read or the row that goes right in front of the elementary school correct correct okay so it's three o'clock 240 245 it's the heart of all the activity and you've got you know kind of traffic going in and out both probably your side and the other side do you envision any um safety issues for students um from those that are not using your site no we don't we we don't and so public traffic will come in the main entry there and then be able to drive straight through between the courtyard and the elementary school and again we'll have crossing guards we'll have staff all of that will be very well monitored and administered so they will be able to flow through and continue North from there and exit either on first or back back through where our traffic is exiting so no safety will be of the utmost importance and we definitely believe that we can do it safely in fact it'll be more safe than it was this past year where cars were zipping in and going you know cutting across the parking lot that won't be feasible so we won't have cars going faster than they should through there and we'll be able to make sure that they go in safely straight through the site and I would say that I wish you could experience the the pickup because we have a fleet of staff that go out there previous to the bus arriving they put out orange cones all the way down so that there's individuated Lanes so we know I gotta show you right here there are cones that go all the way down so if they're once the staff is out there in the orange vests if a person is coming in here they just say you know you can use this Lane Equipment keeping that other lane open for our bus pick up and then prepare and pick up we do do two so when it comes time to do that parent pickup there'll be two rows of cards coming down here right that speeds it up fast and we have a staff that uh so on our sidewalk we have a front sidewalk there's about eight staff members in here as a student comes out the parent pickup they know to take that student directly to the car get them in the car especially if you do that because remember there's the two lanes and so we want to make sure that there's a staff guiding them to the cars there we we do that we've done that so well that we've got to you know we leave ourselves 10 minutes that's how quickly it goes and we make safety parallel if you saw it you'd see how well organized it is the safety is very serious to us Tony maybe you know the answer to this is that road that goes through is that a three-lane rotors that generally uh is that generally a north south one car each Direction type around yes yes um it kind of has the mediums when you come in but what is the constructed traffic flow uh well it's not a road per se it's just a drive aisle um I don't know the exact width um does anybody know how many cars that can hold from a width standpoint safely I can tell you three you can hold three yeah I can do three we've added two columns right and let's say a car comes in and they're saying I just want to go to the post office we don't get many but they do that happens at three o'clock we just Usher them through and that's already when we have two cars here so it does fit three I don't know if that's the best usage of it but we they can get a car off but during a segment of time there will be two lanes that are occupied in one lane vacant essentially free to use per se right yes for for a period of time yeah okay and again this is short short window yep yep so let's say right at the Confluence of everything going on the post office sends out a Twitter that the limited edition Barbie stamps are coming out come up and get them you know we've you know so everybody races up to the post office and you've got all kinds of traffic going on obviously that may have been an extreme example but the reality is you could have two lanes being used individuals wanting to enter the site or go to the other businesses or leave and you could literally have a stuck situation correct where you've got two lanes of cars of parents a consumer two cars going in different directions and the other line two yeah two cars going in different directions do you have a remedy for that problem yeah no there won't be two cars going in the same very opposite directions so our traffic flow flows South cars coming in coming north have their own lane and then they would exit either out onto first or they could loop around and go through where our parents are sure they wouldn't do that but they could go out onto first so there would never be a situation where they're head on but if I'm if I'm at the post office and I want to exit the site and take a left which is something I've done before to me it sounds like that at least at that segment of time I would not be able to do that because all Lanes would be essentially blocked I actually understand what you're saying and you're saying okay we got the person is coming for the Barbie tickets away Barbie stamps it's limited edition here just finished up business got the Barbie stamps is coming up correct correct correct if we run into a situation which the staff out there highly trained if it's a situation I've always said you give you give away you figure it out so you could say to the you go up people hey we can we can have these cars move up for you you can get around our staff will work with people we've actually done that where a car is like well I need I want to use that way up we're like okay cool just give us a moment we move the traffic along and we let that car up and there's so we will pause our situation for safety whatever the case may be and there's still the option of exiting on First and we have rarely run into that okay and then the only other question I have at the moment the um turn from Elm into the middle school area that is only a parent circulation correct that turn from Elm to Middle School correct that is a parent or teacher or other turn in eventually we will have middle school buses so you're all buses in that area as well again at different times at different times okay one school starts later all right thank you sure any other questions you're good not at this time no okay just a few questions um councilmember Wilson asked about the traffic study and as the enrollment increases his question was directed more towards do we do we have a datum for what the traffic cones were prior to the school going in and the only numbers I could find published were from the D.O.T 2019 they're measuring about a half a block North of elm and a half a block south of almond first they measured 820 vehicles per day now when in 19 that happened we have no idea but the grocery store closed December of 2019. and we had covet and there obviously affected traffic but there was also a liquor store the the city leased space out of there are other contributing factors there my question for you is if we do have a datum of at some point in 2019 a traffic number of 820 and based on the traffic study that is included in the packet as enrollment increases past particularly that 500 student mark the traffic study states that there are am Peak entering an exit 559 visits so roughly 263 to 297 I assume that accounts for vehicles of employees that are driving in and staying and not leaving during am Peak my question is you have it sounds like you have a scalability plan for the buses to reduce it from 180 twice a day down to approximately 129 that's right where are those numbers in years like FY 2627 2728 when the traffic study says that it's not going to be 180 twice a day it's going to be 290 and above per day are you are you planning on scaling through additional bus service yes okay and that's actually was in the cup application we did it by year and we showed the number of uh buses we'll have in that year and the number of autos so go ahead oh no I was just going to say that again the the traffic city was very much a conservative conservative study so they that engineer was assuming higher volumes of traffic than what we will be doing okay and you you have already predetermined that there is a cap on your total enrollment at a built out K-12 number 840 yes 840. yeah um under no situation would that change correct okay have you explored the viability of going to a bus only campus have you had any internal conversations regarding the bus usage at these intervals because of the middle school being built out and having some congestion have even started having internal conversations regarding what if that doesn't work like it looks great on paper right but what if it doesn't work um the conversations I've had with my operations director and with the expansion team has been to as soon as possible afford more buses and that's again economy of scale the more students we have the more buses we can get because buses busing is expensive it's one of the highest costs other than uh Personnel that a school has so my effort my hopes will be to persuade parents to take the buses that we will provide them whether we could go to being just a bus campus that conversation has not occurred but we certainly have talked about strongly encouraging parents to use the routes that we're putting out there so for the very reason you're talking about the congestion so we could have those conversations and that would be kind of fall under the heading of working with the city and the county so absolutely we have to be affordable Marshall lines has its limitation because it serves you know multiple customers multiple places but as I talked with Justin he says hey you know as long as your enrollment goes up and you can afford it we can create more routes for you so okay yeah so the goal is to to have the option for pickup drop-off but to have as much busing as possible that would be our strong push yeah okay um just one follow-up question to that and and I oh I'll eat it like this you've made a statement earlier about how the parents listened right and and they followed the direction because this was what we needed to have happen correct do you believe that based on in order to keep this site safe non-injurious um reduce congestion in the neighborhood do you believe that your influence of the parents and the and the direction that you could provide to them that you could achieve 80 percent of your enrollment via busing provided all other mechanisms funding things are in place correct do you believe you could achieve that I'll adjust it this way the Fidelity of our families and parents is so strong that if they thought this would be a way they can maintain this school of choice in their Community the answer to your question is yes yeah and and 80 if we're to use that as a number on 840 is 168 so we're right in that ballpark for where we believe is going to be uh what we're doing for our Max parent pick up and drop off yep thank you I don't have any other questions before we open for members of the public is there any other questions from my peers to the applicant I actually do have uh um two follow-up questions uh one regarding the parking spaces that are available for students and staff it looks like if you're capping out high school students at 60 staff at approximately 78. where how are you designating parking in front of or Behind the Green Space um as far as like where students are parking where staff is parking yep so uh high school students would only Park on to the north of the courtyard so that'd be a designated parking area for high school students staff um would also likely be to the north of the courtyard as well to maintain as much sort of open parking as we could on the south where there's more entry more daily traffic if you know the minimal amount so yeah well designated areas for staff and for uh High School pick or high school cars when we get to that point had made the comment before that um outside of certain circumstances there's really not any reason for students that are in the I'll call it the primary building the larger building to be moving back and forth across the courtyard into those buildings so students going back and forth in that space is is not typical won't be typical absolutely it will not yep um so then it and this might be something that's hard hard to predict right now but um I'm just thinking about things that are all school activities um we're not talking about daytime we're talking about concerts we're talking about evening activities we're talking about a club or this or that because a lot of our conversation is centered around the day today but what is the plan and the process for when you are congregating families and extended families of your students in a space like this and and managing the traffic flow for that so we have done that um in our playground area and also using our north side and using our mixed use space is what it's called inside the building at the grocery store it's a fairly large it's not a gymnasium but it's a fairly large open space where we've done movie Nights we've done parent uh Veterans Day Celebrations there uh we've done um Harvest festivals this type of thing has taken place inside the school and we sometimes then in uh reasonable weather use our playground and north side too we actually have hired a person that will be exclusively working with our extracurricular activities and also working with our parent Association and we're working with bethel's rock as a place that we do some of our activities throughout the year our larger ones because they have a space that's suitable we're also looking at doing soccer and basketball and other sports over at the bethels Rock facility at this time I don't ever see S4 4C is given the space using any place but our playground our side Courtyard is going to be exclusively let's say a high school or a middle schooler you know I'm seeing some trees benches they can go out and sit out there and have a lunch our gymnasium will be a huge place for having community events that's why we want to build a full-scale gymnasium we'll hold Theater events music events and such things here also if we have K through six doing let's say drama or a parent night or something that's happening there we use or sorry K through five we'll use this makes you space there's really not reasonably any area here that we can use the only time I see this possibility is if we allow if we let the city know we have a kind of a fall thing you know where we have um food vendors come in and they serve food to the kids and we can talk in carving and that type of thing for that one evening which I think goes from 5 30 to 8 30. I can see issues of utilizing that space just for that but we've let the city know we'd let everybody know but it becomes somewhat challenging when you think about where does everybody part right and we know that so we have to figure that out in advance we're never going to put ourselves in a situation where we organize an event that we can't sustain in our space safely so I don't know if that answers your question but are you are you asking more about during the day having students cross for a like an all School event it was it was kind of a double question I mean the first component of it was how often students do need to cross and that was answered the second question is you know with an enrollment of 840 capped if you had an all School event You're Expecting I would say at minimum 840 Vehicles given the fact that there could be extended family in addition to you know students we just won't be able to do we won't be able to do that that would have that many we we would never like Mr mcklin said we would never put ourselves in a position where we could not have enough parking for an event and so during the day to speak to that part of it K through five as Mr Miller was talking about has a multi-purpose space for those types of activities so again they would be self-sustained on the west side and then the gymnasium would be for middle school and high school we don't foresee having the entire east side or west side cross for an event during the day so but I want to with Claire I understand your question and I've thought it myself actually you know how would we ever do an all-school event when you've got 8 and 40 students that's at least 16 let's say 1600 parents right coming and let's say they don't all come in the same vehicle it's unsustainable so what we're going to have to do is the school is limit ourselves to events that are say okay we're going to do the K through three musical that's on this night and then four through five does its Musical on another night we have to figure out some system by which to utilize the space we're in so I don't ever foresee us having an old school event at the same time just can't happen any other questions or comments well the comment perhaps just and it'll lead to a question I I have one concern when I when I listen to well I have a few but I one concern that keeps popping up and bubbling up to me when I when I listen to you talk about um your projections and your goals and your ideals for the school um and how it relates to safety and the use of space has to do with some of the things that you've reacted to up to this point um okay in the sense that we had a plan for the school and we had a plan for a a two-story high school but in reaction to you know what we found what what you would found out later to be the case a two-story high school isn't going to work um in reaction to larger than expected enrollment we have to move to three classes instead of or three session sections instead of two and there's this need for adaptation sure and I can appreciate that these are good problems to have when you're talking about people that want to be a part of your school right my question is is it is it a cautionary Tale in the sense that what happens when you have far greater than 840 students that want to be a part of this what happens when you have [Music] um high schoolers that want to participate in sports uh is is the extent of what we are looking at here the extent of what we are looking at um or is this something that could balloon further that you're not prepared for like where where is your stopping Plan 8 40. yeah and this is the maximum that this site can sustain so we are we are committing to an 840 maximum enrollment for this site and and sticking to that so I absolutely understand your question and concern and um but we have looked at this fours and backwards every way that is that is our maximum enrollment for this site and we won't be exceeding that I think it's important you also said about sports that's why we have hired somebody to look at relationships with other uh churches and other places around that we can do Sports at other sites and provide transportation from there to those sites we realize that there's limitations to the site we're in um or classical school we're going to offer excellent education uh for 840 students but we understand that limitations but by what we can do for events and sports and we're going to have to work outside of those parameters elsewhere that's what we realize so no more questions two council member bernass's point is there a number that would cause you to search for other sites besides this current one that would cause you to look for something maybe out of town or do you mean if we got enrollment that went past 847 yes we're capped at 8 40. that's our our desires to have 840. is that am I still not addressing the question you're asking no I was just curious if there was an interest high enough that would cause you to go look at building a new site somewhere is there a number that you know of course out of reality we don't have a set number for that and we're we're a ways off for me and you're telling that yeah understood thank you appreciate the question any other questions no no any other questions I actually have two more um I want to go back to that bus circulation now that you mentioned it um have you talked to Marshall Lyons to find out if um a bus going west and turning into the site towards the middle school is actually doable um no I haven't had that exact conversation no okay because I looked at that very carefully over the weekend and again having driven a school bus those do not take you know their school buses are not known for short-term tight turns and you know uh you know high performance all that kind of stuff I I would challenge the ability of that of a bus to adequately turn that way and I I think it would be very important I I would encourage you to talk to the bus company because I don't think a school bus can make that move and make that flow work at all I would be I'd be very surprised we can certainly have that conversation and like I said at the start there are we can cue buses and in a different way if needed for middle school and high school we have the space to the north as well available for queuing so we can address that concern if it is one yep um the last question guys I wish this traffic engineer was here um mayor Hoyt referenced the 840 which is the Dakota County number that of trips down First Street um that same study showed Elm Street at 12 614 with our most recent study of 2021. so when the traffic engineer was doing this analysis do they consult with or are you aware if they consulted with Dakota County numbers more you know the most recent numbers or if they reached out to the city of Farmington uh to find out you know any type of construction or other activity that might change the numbers to help you be aware of the safety around the site I don't know if they reached out to sneer County to see if there's anything that has changed but I do know they used that information you quoted and they also set up cameras and took real-time data during the week for two full days to capture real-time information on traffic on numbers and counts so they were using as current as data as they could get do you know if two full days is the industry standard for a traffic hunt and what we were talking about yes but we were told by them is that they were absolutely meeting what was the industry standard okay um okay thank you all right if there's no other questions by Council for the applicant then at this time we're going to um open the public hearing for or not open the public hearing but have residents and or interested persons come up and speak if depending on the number of people that want to speak I just ask that please be orderly keep a line and before anyone speaks I'm gonna read off a little something do we have anyone that's interested in speaking okay have you come up to the mic please state your name and address we'd ask that you'd limit your comment to five minutes yeah possible okay um and just please be respectful my name is Paris dirty I live at 19732 Meadowlark way for many years excuse me my throat for many years my family and I have dined at Wang's Kitchen Tony and Joanne have been our neighbors we follow them and their families on Facebook and oh by the way Wings kitchen's got really good food a lot of best Chinese restaurant in Minnesota a few years back they represent the best that a mom-and-pop shop restaurant has to offer businesses like wings and hail nutrition Verizon USA Nails should be nurtured and supported wangs for instance has a customer base that spans the entire metro and Beyond and brings those people and their money to Farmington my brother-in-law and his wife used to come from Cannon Falls to join us at Wang's dinner for dinner and they loved it since the pandemic they now come for takeout when people ask me what Chinese restaurant to go to in Farmington I say Wang's Kitchen with the new apartment building coming into Farmington I would think we'd want to surround it with as many businesses as we can to service the tenants everyone would benefit what will the school provide for new residents of that building I don't know I think it would be a disservice to Farmington to allow Great Oaks Academy to expand at the expense of the great businesses that exist there currently we still don't have a grocery store which we all want and I know it's a difficult subject but if those businesses are forced to leave there's even less opportunity to spend our money in Farmington and we'll all suffer the inconvenience of having to take our business elsewhere thank you thank you [Applause] David Marsh tool for First Street to live right behind the school let me start and Paul and I have talked numerous times I don't have an issue with school but going 840 kids in that situation with two and a half three acres doesn't fit the 180 to 200 Cars a day you're all welcome to come sit on my porch any morning or any afternoon when they pick up and deliver he does a good job of staging it but the problem is try to turn left off First Street while they're trying to turn in so the 840 that Mr Mayor you pointed out that was from 7 A.M until 9 00 p.m and we had a liquor store we had crazy Dance Moms late for picking up their dance kids but that was expanded throughout an entire day we're talking 180 cars in a 20-minute window and now with the with the traffic flow there's not one person that goes down the center aisle to the post office okay there's a giant safety hazard on First Street in Elm Street and it's because of the traffic flow and how the parents get into the school again I want to reiterate I don't have an issue with the school but imagine if you live next to that situation and you were trying to you had a medical emergency in your family and you were trying to get an ambulance there and parents were backed up down the center lane all the way out to Aitkin road trying to get in that school in the morning and now you've got westbound traffic coming from three getting out of town at eight o'clock in the morning it's impossible my sons both took the school bus and that was their corner for their pickup could you imagine that today now there 16 and 20 but could you imagine sitting out there with your kid a kindergartner trying to get on a school bus at that corner with the amount of traffic flow that we have my wife telecommutes right there's a value in everything I understood what I bought when the grocery store was there polices was there actually that was a grain elevator and that was a dead End Circle and then you it was a dead end Street couldn't go anywhere it was peaceful it was quiet we had the Vermilion River through expansion which it's going to happen in life now we have cars coming all the time but we have them all congested in one spot I made the suggestion at the last Planning Commission meeting and I'll correct Mr Whipple the other reason that your question was why were the situation denied it was traffic flow and it was because it didn't meet the conditional use permit our comp plan for the city those were the two and you can go back and look at the minutes on those but imagine the value of what my house is going to be with 840 kids across the street and what those other seven neighbors that I have right that does affect me that does cause detriment on me it doesn't increase the value of my house does it increase the value of my land and it makes my opportunity to sell at some point because I'm getting older and I want to retire and move up to the lake it greatly reduces who's going to be willing to buy again I don't have an issue with the school I think it's a great school and I support the parents there I've made the suggestion to Paul if we could throw up that traffic plan I've offered a solution at least for the elementary school I don't agree with the high school but if they put a turn lane foreign they've lost it numerous times you're never going to get that turn lane right here turning back arms buildings in the way I said put the turn light here move the Green Space to the north have all your parents come from the West because of the controlled intersection at QuikTrip you're gonna have to deal with the traffic on railroad tracks we're gonna turn right here have all your parents come in middle school high school or middle school or wrap around and bring your traffic flow this way then they exit and they go to the West it alleviates a ton of issues if you're willing to compromise and do so the way the current traffic flow says you can't go east and you can't go west off of First Street at any given moment when the parents are dropping off or the buses it just makes things terrible you know my wife telecommutes I have no less than 90 to 100 cars every morning sitting in front of my house idling and I have two springers right it's one thing for a car to drive by a dog doesn't bark in a car movie but when you have cars sitting in front of your house and my wife's on her conference call or trying to do her work those dogs are going nuts because they're just sitting there because they get there 10 minutes early granted Paul does a good job trying to make sure that doesn't happen but it happens and here's my challenge come on over first day of school I'll have donuts and coffee you guys can sit on the porch we'll count cars we'll see how many times the dog bark and we'll see what you feel like after sitting there for a couple days and and again I don't have a problem with the school but I do have a problem with the expansion because you're putting a square peg in a round hole here and it's not going to fit it's not conducive to our comp plan it's not conducive to the seven neighbors that I have it's not helping us you know the situation is there's you read it out Mr Merrick when you started this whole process safety there's railroad tracks you got quick trip you got Main Street and Elm right there you got first reading the traffic flow you got the stop lights past the park there's a lot of safety issues imagine imagine if one of their students had an accident in the morning and they were trying to get an ambulance to it you couldn't get there there's not a chance in good good green earth that you're going to get there at any given time so I really really hope you guys all think about that aspect because put yourself in my shoes in my neighbor's shoes because I kind of have been elected to kind of talk for everybody a little bit so think about that right I didn't move next day there's no outside of Farmington Elementary school there's not another school with a neighborhood around it right and that was because it was built when it was built everything else has a buffer right First Street shouldn't be considered that buffer thank you thank you [Applause] just a quick note for people the I.T person told me to stay people should stay on the mic if they want to be heard um otherwise it won't catch you over here thanks hi thank you I'm Jackie Dooley I live at 313 Walnut Street and I've just got some points that haven't been brought up yet I think for one thing let's talk about our Old Town neighborhood which has changed considerably since the the traffic's increased on Elm Street and the thing is is that years ago we were promised traffic relief on Elm when the roundabout by the golf course was going to come in that was going to that was going to alleviate the traffic on Elm Street and it's it's not going to get any better it's just going to get worse with the increase um development around Farmington um I'd also like to talk about how important the post office is to me I'm a letter writer I'm down there regularly buying those Barbie stamps and uh the route that we take now is behind on First Street I always thought that little cut through was the alley back there I did not realize that was an actual Road I thought it was the sneaky way to get to the post office that because it it's it it's a puny little constricted area back there doesn't seem to be a real Street seems like an Alleyway and yet they're using it for major traffic and getting to the post office is a distinct challenge especially if you're a pedestrian like me because getting across the corner by quick trip is just it's a nightmare it's a death witch and I I we usually eat the old people on either side of the corner we give each other that you know we try to support each other as we're trying to get across Elm okay here's another thing that nobody's brought up that I can think of has anybody talked to the DNR about because of the proximity to the river That's essential because that parking lot has created hot water that's flowed directly into the Vermilion our loved trout stream for years and it's all the Vermillion River Watershed Planning Commission has talked for years about trying to ameliorate that parking lot you know making plant sinks you know so the water can can trickle down instead of falling directly in I've not heard anybody address the DNR issue because when they talk about the green space behind the buildings on the North side where theoretically they were going to put the two-story High School in that that's been the 100 of the river that the DNR has complete control over as far as I know the best I know so that's another consideration is that has anybody talked to the DNR about this shift or these new projects because I think they'd be interested and let me think I think that's it for now context is what I've heard today are people talking about the inward construction but I'd like somebody to keep track of the fact that the neighborhood has completely changed since the traffic has been insanely nuts and it's it's really hard for the downtown area where where there's loads of senior citizens that are pedestrians to try to get their their milk and bananas at quick trip it's not got winter is just a living hell and the the like I said we should address that those neighborhood issues how this affects downtown in how long we've been there thanks thank you ma'am [Applause] hi I'm Christy Rhodes 617 Spruce Street so uh I've been following along since this was first requested in the grocery space and from what I've seen at meetings read publicly available documentation this expansion will not align with the city goals the comprehensive plan nor the city codes I've read through the draft of the approval and the draft of the denial attached to the online agenda and I agree with the denial points outlined and have some to add so city code section 10 1 2 a through J the first objective is um the zoning ordinance is to protect and promote the public health and safety and general welfare of the community I would like to point out that having an entity with a director on their board that states and I quote we are at War regarding CRT social justice transgenderism and every other sick ideology created in hell and that's an end quote and said uh it is so evil when speaking about the lgbtq plus community in a podcast publicly it appears that uh a lot of demographic in our community would not be welcomed or safe in this space so um also while reading through agendas this work session that you guys had just prior and looks like in the consent agenda you approved a public hearing I think in September but you're going to request a levy for the Eda or the Eda which is all of you to request a hundred and fifty thousand dollars for economic development to bring it to the council which is also you to have us consider spending more taxes and and maybe I think it comes to a vote I'm not sure I'm not sure if this is something that will come to vote but I cannot if this is approved I can't think of anything more anti-business nor better reason to vote no to a tax levy that is supposed to be Economic Development and supporting businesses and the like and uh with the mess of traffic and the apartments coming in that's going to negatively impact every business owner that's already down there that people try to get to for dropping off their kids at a daycare perhaps or maybe bringing their kids to gymnastics people are going to avoid this space and our other businesses will suffer so not only the ones that we might potentially lose but the ones that are staying people won't want to come down here to patronize anymore I mean from the business owners I've heard from anyway that's one of their concerns so um I can't trust that my taxes are going to be spent in a way that your priorities your comprehensive plan and your policy State because this just rids everything the the diverse tax base is no longer diverse in that space future businesses are not going to be allowed to come in because now it's zoned something else so if they do abandon the space when they grow too big um and they moved from a 20-acre site to five acre site or less than so it's very strange but anyway um when they abandon it to get more space than what we have an empty School and no businesses so I just I don't want people bullying our city and our leaders into rezoning when they weren't forthcoming from the very get-go thank you that's all I got anyone else wishing to speak Bob Richardson 35 Elm Street two houses from First Street lived there all my life my our parents bought the house in 66. Dave's been our neighbor since like 99 or 2000. uh that Center turn lane on Elm Street is for like three or four cars making a left turn either way like on First Street and for police and fire protection the county plows to be wide there 24 hours a day it's a major truck drought rnl Trucking and FedEx come through there 24 hours a day they're probably over the seed limit we've addressed the issue the police have uh put their radar detector just past Division Street on on Elm Street that's where the 30 Zone starts the 30 Zone should be pushed West on the other side of the highway bridge to slow traffic coming down that Arch Bridge because uh as able-bodied people you try to cross that street that it implied crosswalk if you're ready to go not distracted even on a divided it's on that road if I'm not if I'm not mistaken the traffic should yield to you if you're ready to cross at any intersection not distracted and sometimes one one lane stops and we wave the other two lanes back and we back up how do you expect children to cross that road I won't say the name but we have a neighbor in our neighborhood three of their kids go to this school they can see the front door or the playground of their school from their their house they actually walk 300 400 feet to the salt on First Street get on a bus and cross Elm Street and get dropped off to go to that school so you're saying the school is in a safe Zone one of the closest students three students own of 340 I mean that's one about one percent of their students cannot safely cross that street and the Planning Commission just the second thing about traffic flow the Planning Commission just accepted a daycare facility to go into a dexterity Dental one block away from this site the same left turn lane which the eastbound traffic coming over the bridge going into the school will be using and if any of the parents are coming for the daycare facility if they're coming from the East going to turn on Division there are going to be conflicts they're going to be head-on collisions in the left turn lane or tying up both ends of Elm Street at first and Division Adobe enter uh conflicting cars and uh and uh right now since secure counseling moved into the the corner lot there before Dr harms or the previous dentist they had the use of that extra lot where the playground is for their parking now it's a city street but there's actually about six to eight cars parked on the east and west side of First Street all day long in front of our in front of properties close to stop signs interfering with trash collection there'll be snow plowing in the winter so that First Street cannot be you it's not going to utilize as they're saying if you come off uh Elm Street you cannot tie up the north south through Lanes of First Street if they're waiting to go to the school they should be actually along the parking Lane and the parking Lane it's summertime but those same uh users of the Counseling Center are going to be there all year round and their staff right now the Counseling Center has like four parking spots that should be addressed for engineering or Tony I'm not sure if they're they bought the property but on Dakota County records the secure counseling property goes right up to the South Wall of the school so they could possibly alleviate some of that and build their parking lot for the counseling center and get get the cars off the street that what might help the school and snow plowing in everything else but I think letting that daycare we're just going which was agreed upon that traffic flow has to be agreed upon because if they have 135 students at the daycare or kids that could be another 135 cars each about the same time that drop off in the morning and pick up in the afternoon and there'll be a conflict in front of our houses tying up the bridge traffic and trying tying up maybe the left turn lane between first now and legally we witnessed it you cannot cross intersection in the left turn lane and throughout the school year a few cars each day were crossing Elm or a First Street uh personnel and going into the main Drive they were crossing the intersection and Center turn lane which is totally illegal because they're designed for left and left not a student and uh and uh I'm the when the police and fire have to take that center lane and if that Center turn lane is tied up like it has been this year six eight ten cars from Elm Street almost down to the park I mean the police and fire can yield but usually that Center turn lane is just a few cars in and out and and the traffic goes to the right for to yielding for the safety and for the traffic flow of the grocery store before that was over a whole day and maybe three or four cars going in at a time not not 80 going in a time when it wasn't targeted I mean like a super sale and it's a commercial licensed driver uh I've never driven School Bus I've driven lowboy semi and straight 26 foot box trucks even with that turn lane coming off Elm to the main uh the current main entrance a bus will not make that turn I mean without doing some modification to the front and that's all I want to say thank you [Applause] any additional comments before we close the public hearing as usual I can't keep my mouth shut um and I didn't hear I can honestly say I didn't hear half of what was said because I don't get my hearing aids until next month and these things need to be turned up louder yeah and we state your name and address oh sorry Patricia Sullivan 1008 2nd Street Farmington and I've lived in Farmington for over 50 years uh I my vision here is first of all I thought it was a mistake when the school was built there but that spilled milk can't go back if you double down on this I think it's just horrendous for the town you're supposed to be building the town up you're taking a big section of the downtown area and turning it into this campus we need more businesses and there's already at least three businesses there that will be put out of business it just doesn't make any sense to me and besides that all this thing about saying how a b and all this going to go as far as the trafficking is going I work for the school district for almost 20 years and 15 of them were spent out at North Trail my office faced the parking lot at the height when I was there we had 800 students it was a much bigger area we had a building in between and they put the um buses out in the back and the parking out in the front and there was parents out there and at times we had to call the police to be there because unless these are Stepford parents they're not going to listen they're going to be busy to get to work they're going to have a sick kid at home they they're running late they're running early and they want to move I even saw a parent run into another parent in the parking lot and we had a parking system going out and our principal talked to the parents our principal sent out messages the teachers talked to the students to try to encourage their parents and it did no good I went out there to try it a few times to try to straighten them out a little bit especially when they were hampering the handicap parking and all I did was get swore at and they paid absolutely no attention to the police so I don't know and we also live in Minnesota and if these buses are coming in they're not always going to get there on time they're going to be stuck out someplace or they're going to be late or they're going to be early I just and all the things that in at North Trail emptied out onto a not a really busy Street and yet it was a mess so good luck with this if you okay this because it sure isn't going to help Farmington thank you [Applause] hi I'm Mary jerny 19732 Meadowlark way in Farmington and the only thing I kind of wanted to add to some of what's been said tonight is um everything sounds good when it's a proposal or it's an idea in your head but you know what I don't know very many high school students who want to take the bus and I know high school students have to have a job and they need to have a car and they need to get going they can't take the bus and buses only holds 40 to 60 kids so if you have four buses what are you doing with the other 500 kids but anyway the other issue that I had is displacing this business I think is is horrible and I think that from my point of view when the school came in in the first place the kind of fed you a line and you agreed with it and everything and then they come back with a whole new idea and oh okay well now all of a sudden we have to displace everybody and we have to add to this and and do all of that no regard to the taxpayers or the citizens who aren't part of the school and and the price that they will pay for having the the school there um my daughter put a petition online this week um regarding you know retaining the businesses and she got over 600 signatures I think she emailed it to you guys I'm not sure but um people I mean we were also accommodating with the score accommodating people from Lakeville from you know students from Lakeville students from Newmarket students from wherever so it's it's not for the good of Farmington it's for the good of a certain small group of people and I think we owe some kind of loyalty to these businesses that have been here for years and and through thick and thin and through covet and everything else it I just I can't I can't stress how much I think that it would be a very very sad day I I think that all everybody runs on when they run for these political positions they all run you know saying we want new businesses we're going to retain businesses we're all about businesses and lowering taxes and what happens is we lose business and we don't get new business and taxes raise and where do when do we start doing something about it I don't know [Applause] any other public comment uh Eric Speck in 708 5th Street I just really just want to reiterate what's been said here tonight um I think there's two things you have the businesses in town you had wangs and Verizon they've been here for years and really just if removing those displacing those those businesses it's really going to set up bad precedence for here in town I think personally I know all of you have run on trying to expand businesses here in town and expanding at school to at the sacrifice of business is just really not a good decision for for this for the city itself moving forward so I hope you all kind of keep that in mind and just a second I think the safety is really the big the traffic issue is huge I mean you hear it from the residents that live I live a few blocks away so I don't have to deal with it so much but the residents here that are dealing with a day in day out and adding doubling the size of the school is not going to be any better by doubling on I'm impressed with your traffic skills that you have there by just really question of being able to do that safely you're gonna have parents are going to come early you're going to have these after school activities it's just not going to be good for the city and especially adding the apartment and all that so again just kind of reiterating the same thing but it's really want to have just there's more local support to not expand this school thank you thank you [Applause] oh my name is Becky LeBeau I live on 20731 Dyer's pass um I own a business in Farmington and I love kids kids are my jam I don't you can I mean schools are great um I just don't think it needs to be right here right in the middle of our downtown when I mean Joanna and Tony has anyone ever gone into the restaurant and they didn't call them by their name and then this is how we play repaid the one business and our town that's brought other people in all while simultaneously saying that you want to grow Farmington and support businesses you're gonna take it away listen I whatever you choose to choose I came up here to show my support for these guys when my father-in-law passed away my mother-in-law went to USA Nails to get her nails done when Jessica heard about that from hail nutrition she paid for her nails to get done at the business there these are the kind of things that happen there is nothing that the school is going to bring to our community and whether you vote Yes or no if you vote Yes fine but then don't stand up here and pretend like you're for businesses in Farmington because you are not and that's it [Applause] any other public comment all right seeing none then at this time we'll close the public hearing and we will open this time for Council to deliberate make any comments redirect any questions back to either the applicant or staff if needed start with councilmember Wilson can you define the parameters or can the City attorney to find the parameters of our deliberation certainly so um like the mayor said at the top of this agenda item the council is intent is um per code this is about a land use option a land use Choice whether or not this property owner has met the conditions and neighborhood opposition alone is not sufficient to deny information about traffic or like data or Intel or evidence from those who spoke is can be I should say um whether or not there's a private dispute between tenant and a landlord is not a part of our considerations that the council can take into account to legally make a choice here so really the focus would be on you know what's in the findings what's in the code feel free to have a robust discussion however I I'm not trying to just topple you know a really important conversation so sure thanks and it would formal opinions be deliberation this is where you yeah okay I as I noted earlier I have studied this um since its Inception and uh I spent a lot of time over the weekend I have conferred with our City attorney um you know this is a really really this is a really challenging one because um whichever way you decide you're you might gain a friend you might lose a friend but my job is to oversee the welfare of the community and look out for the interests of the community and make sure that I'm being consistent with our city code and that is the oath that we all take um as I look at this the the analysis points that I would support the denial that the Planning Commission has uh that I would support the denial that the Planning Commission made back on I believe was June 13th um in particular if you look at our Code 10-3-5 paragraph C um you know Great Oaks Academy basically it is it does the proposed use conform to the conform to the district permitted and conditional use permit provisions and all General regulations uh that's basically what this point is um I believe that the proposed enlarged use within e site does not conform to the conditional use provisions and all the general regulations of title 10 of our city code um I also have concerned with um conditional use permit item number three which is the proposed you shall be constructed design cited oriented and landscaped to produce a harmonious relationship rebellions and grounds to other adjacent buildings and properties that desire city code 10-3-5 paragraph three or paragraph C I believe subparagraph three based on the testimony of the Planning Commission here public hearings we also heard testimony directly here from residents that are on first read and very adjacent to first read an information contained in the updated traffic study and Analysis and on the analysis of the Planning Commission the proposed in large use to include the West section would not produce a harmonious relationship with the buildings and grounds to adjacent buildings and properties I would also add two on the traffic study I I really wish the Traffic Engineers have been here because I believe that there are comments in that traffic study which are not which might be factually accurate but it's being very much maybe enlarging the intent of the comment so for example I pointed out earlier that the traffic studies specifically notes that the proposed Great Oaks Academy on the site located north of Elm Street and East of First Street will generate fewer trips than the previous grocery store use on the site the applicant could not produce any factual data to support that the author of the traffic study was not here to support where that Source came from my opinion is the comment may have been a generalization of comments of traffic throughout that entire site so I do have concerns about the validity of the traffic study itself [Music] um the point number five um which is the proposed you shall organize vehicular access and parking to minimize traffic congestion in the neighborhood that is city code 10-3-5 C5 and I believe that that is a fail in that category as well even the reasonable conditions suggested by City staff and contain in the updated traffic study do not adequately mitigate the negative traffic impacts at the surrounding neighborhood that we would result from an enlarged use onto the e-section Dakota County objects to a second entrance to the property given the proximity to the railroad tracks which is reasonable congestion mitigation measures are too dependent on private access easements that are not necessarily irrevocable and unlimiting the number of high school students who would be allowed to park on the property with effectively no enforcement measures planned if enrollment for the 20s 20 30 31 Academic Year reaches the projected level of 840 students served by 78 staff staff will take up nearly half of the off-street parking available on the property students are visitors to the elementary middle and high school would likely be forced to find parking on adjacent streets or business parking lots the current traffic flow and drop-off and pickup times are already problematic with parent queuing up on First Street which has negative impact on traffic congestion in the neighborhood with increased enrollment over time and a greater number of students being dropped off and picked up daily traffic congestion would likely be exacerbated over time Point number six which is also a fail the proposed use shall preserve objectives of this title and be consistent with the comprehensive plan the city code 10-1-2 paragraphs a through J note this enumerate the objectives of excuse me title 10 of the city code paragraphs B through J are not impacted by the proposed and large use on the East property however the first objective of the zoning ordinance is to protect and promote the public health safety and general welfare of the community that is city code section 10-1-2 paragraph 8. the traffic flow and traffic congestion concerns described in this resolution clearly demonstrate that the proposed expansion to the e-section does not protect or promote the health safety and general welfare of the community particularly the safety of students facing facing traffic flowing through the campus in between the West and East section so it is for those reasons and the failure to meet Those portions of our city code that I would vote to affirm the denial that the Planning Commission issued back on June 13th [Music] okay uh I'd find myself in agreement with pretty much every Point Steve has said Steve has basically read some of these things I guess the additional points I would make to that are the additional testimony that was raised about the new daycare as well as the apartment adding additional traffic downtown if it's already a congestion problem we're adding more traffic down there I have a hard time um accepting that that problem will get any better with a double student account so tell you okay um I actually I have just one question to ask actually from Great Oaks chem academy one of the things that was shown um on the conditional use permit amendment was number four the attached plan calls for a future construction of a two-story high school that would be attached to the gymnasium Edition what is it that makes that two-story building more reasonable manageable buildable than what would have been on the north side of the original um the original scope of the project what is that two-story work and the other one wouldn't it's all about sight so it's not about how many stories so um the question that the woman raised about DNR that's a valid concern it's within the flood plain we believe um it's too tight from a geometry standpoint uh it's up against an existing building there are multiple reasons why that location doesn't work it's not about the stories so by putting the high school over on the east side in conjunction with the gymnasium the Middle School it also works better from an operational standpoint and the gymnasium would need to be constructed as a storm shelter per Minnesota building code and so by incorporating the high school in with that structure it's far more efficient and and works just works better from a construction standpoint and again the two stories that the gymnasium is two stories that the um so they'll have equal rough height same rough height and it can be all integrated together um at the risk of at the risk of sounding redundant there there isn't much that my peers haven't said that I am in disagreement with one of the things that causes honestly probably the greatest concern for me just speaking openly is I think the scope of the project as it was presented in 2022 was it was reasonable but um you know the expansion in the reactive nature of the administration to a desire for growth or for opportunity um gives me as great of pause as almost anything else does that we are looking at something that probably isn't fully fleshed out that it's it's all based on ideals and even those ideals when we're talking about over doubling enrollment but adding you know only 60 cars over the course of of this projection in growth I I just I don't think it's I don't think it's reasonable I don't I I think it's a great Pie in the Sky idea but I I don't know that it's going to come to fruition in that manner and um at the risk of repeating everything council member uh Wilson has said um I I find myself in agreement yeah I do and I have one more comment for the record there was another testimony about emergency vehicle access which I would totally agree with as relevant if you are in a traffic jam situation what the ambulance or police or fire risk is there to get into those buildings too not to put the Chiefs on the spot but do you guys have any anything to add on that the potential or the risk ambulances were mentioned and cars and police cars generally have a concern with it absolutely I would Echo that okay if I may I would just like again like can I address this the traffic thing one more time um we we know this works we've already been doing it and we can absolutely keep that car count to the maximum that we stated again the increase busing is going to be huge for us we did not have dedicated buses before and we do now and we will continue to add buses as we go as far as the traffic route through the site there are multiple ways to do that and we are absolutely wanting to work with the city in the county on a on a plan that will work in meets all um all parties involved we presented this one because we know it works we've done it already and we had the traffic study and the city staff a review and and recommend approval so we know that this works we've been doing it and we can make it work long term um but there are multiple ways to do it and we are absolutely willing to address those I've heard from multiple council members a concern that there was a misrepresentation in 2022 uh or at the meeting where that it was stated that we would use the north side as a high school that was never meant to be a misrepresentation but I will take full ownership if there was a misrepresentation and that when we commit to 840 we commit to 840. we have no plans to expand beyond that whatsoever at this site we're committed to 840. we're also strongly committed to making sure we are safe we hire staff exclusively for that and we put them out on that parking lot and yes I know it seems remarkable that our parents follow the directives that we put for routes a b and c but we have remarkable parents who very much want to see the success of this school and so they do all they can to contribute positively to this school and this community so yes I strongly believe they will follow the routes that we set up for them in the times and I strongly believe that we will run a safe parking lot and school that's all I would say just really briefly the the January 2020 those past conversations any misrepresentation that shouldn't factor into the council's consideration of what is before them today correct thank you any additional comments for my peers at all Tony if you could would you mind putting that under specifically the Riverside West District here thank you sir you spin it the other way please all right so a couple of things that have come up um through some of the Planning Commission conversation it came up a little bit here tonight um for me breaks down can you tell us what we're looking at I'm sorry uh we're looking at a illustration that is represented both the 2040 comp plan uh and also the downtown Redevelopment plan it's specifically points out the Riverside West District which uh if you look to the far northwest corner where you see the river you'll see a building shaded in light green with what would be like a Red Q on it that represents the Great Oaks building as it sits today I wanted to put this illustration up there for a couple of reasons number one and it was alluded to and somewhat pointed out even in the downtown Redevelopment plan and the comprehensive plan which are guiding documents they're not ordinances they're guiding documents they they're it's a compilation of inputs from stakeholder information traffic study Transportation plans Census Data projections all the things it's a guiding document to provide a general Pathway to what those before us those elected those City staff envisioned for the downtown community in the respective districts and the reason I mentioned the Riverside West District is because that's a district that this particular application references um even in the readout even in the downtown Redevelopment plan it specifically spells out areas where it says that due to access concerns and or uh site and visibility concerns that it may be recommended that this portion of the site may need to be entirely reconfigured to offer the best potential layout for new space that's just simply a way of saying people had an idea of what that area looked like but nobody really knew until businesses organizations groups came forward with money prepared to make a transaction this is a parcel that was vacated by a tenant and held by a business from December of 2019 until late 21 when Wellington purchased it Wellington is a business Wellington pays taxes Wellington has inherited agreements with tenants that the city is no part of the city council the Planning Commission and staff has no position dictating lease terms lease amounts etc those are private transactions it's no different than asking a city council to ask your neighbor to sell their house to your best friend for a certain amount it doesn't work that way it is the same thing it's how business transactions work then this situation Wellington purchased property that anyone in this room or anyone in the community or anyone available could have bought Wellington purchased it they are trying to exercise a use that was previously adopted by city council our job is to determine whether or not that use conforms to the code as it's written today we may not like the rules on the field but we agreed that those were the real rules on the field and they can be changed but they can't be changed during an application process and a school was a conditional use and that's why we're sitting here today the criteria that's been listed there is a lot of I'll say combination of misinterpretation and also um inconclusive information you know we we still don't have the County's position on the traffic we don't have County input as to whether or not they will allow an intersection change a write-in right out the distance from the railroad we don't have that absent that nobody could make a recommendation or put a stipulation on a conditional use approval that had any bearing on traffic because we don't have the key stakeholder whose Road it is at the table right now that's a major hang up for me is that we do everything else aside we don't have the county at the table we don't have the County's input on what that in and out looks like because that may completely contradict the traffic study it may support the traffic study but we don't have that the second part and why putting this illustration up is one of the conditional uses under our code for this district is a theater now depending on the movie that's being played in said theater if they had bought this property and we were sitting here today deliberating the same conditional use of a parcel we'd be talking about the same issue whether it's Great Oaks or someone else there are Transportation issues that exist there is congestion that exists we have to work with the county we have to work with our city staff and we have to have a better idea of how we alleviate those concerns because no matter what ends up being here long term there's two parcel holders to the north right now they're USPS who's a tenant and the other one is a building that is only occupied by a dance studio what rights do they have when they come forward and say I want to put in a conditional use business per your code but I'm going to add another 400 cars on top of what you've already approved that's the position that we're stuck with is trying to Envision what is this going to look like built out under your plan but also adding in two more Parcels that could be used differently five years from now we have an obligation to you and and the financial side of your business to make sure that we're not leading you down a path that we come back later and say that all sounded great back in 2023 but 2026 somebody else has different plans sorry you can't grow anymore um right now there's too many flags that we don't have answers for today there's too many Transportation issues that we can't answer today I'm not saying we can't get them solved yeah a bus only campus might not look ideal but it might be the only way to solve the traffic issues for this location um it was earlier referenced about this site we haven't even talked about or explored and it's frankly not the purview of this deliberation tonight as to whether or not Great Oaks has viability as a k-6 with a 7 through 12 on a secondary site not part of it but it is a factor of consideration because um this campus is eventually going to be built out whether it's Great Oaks or Wellington has other tenants somebody else is going to occupy this space at some point and there are going to continue to be traffic concerns because this community isn't slowing down it's continuing to grow contrary to what other people think twelve thousand Vehicles a day on on Elm Street is increasing every single day um and there are more factors of consideration as it pertains to the traffic that again I don't believe we've seen enough as of this state right now to know that we're making a decision in the best interest and safety of all parties involved in proximity to the the parcel that question um the motion that's been or the action that's been requested in the agenda is to either accept the fact and findings of approval as submitted to deny or reject the appeal per the fact and findings as submitted or to approve or deny with other Council stipulations if I'm reading that correctly yeah I guess briefly so staff recommended in the memo to adopt the resolutions to approve the cup the council could adopt the resolution to deny the cup just to clean up the appeal language and stuff like that prove and deny um I guess one other option is we've consumed a lot of information tonight that might help us um uh kind of craft findings so one thing that we could do is just putting this out here it's to make a motion to direct staff to redraft one of those resolutions for consideration at the next meeting to take into account more of what we've heard tonight that is also an option so you could a motion to adopt the approval motion to adopt the denial or give staff time to revisit and redraft is yet another option thank you ma'am so basically there's there's some holes in the traffic and and submittal part of the appeal process is we have the right to the council reserves a right to bring in a arbitrator a third party to question documentation that's been submitted as part of the process and if there's question about the traffic study and or the validity of it the information of it we essentially don't have to make a decision if we feel that that would be though the limiting criteria to an approval um is that in the code mayor I I want to make sure I'm understanding you okay um I didn't see that in my code review when I was looking at the conditional use permit in the appeal process um that might give us even more reason to do the redraft so I can look into that theory basically how this process works out and it's different for every city so some land use education is planning commissions and a lot of other cities is merely advisory and the council always has the final choice in Farmington and a number of other cities the Planning Commission is also known as the board of adjustment and has ability to review cup applications as the final decision maker unless an appeal occurs and then the appeal guarantees the applicant a public hearing now in that provision about what the city council can do it says hold a public hearing and make a determination while inviting the applicant to speak so um that's what I'm coming in with uh here it's getting to be 9 38 also so I apologize if I'm thinking on the Fly here but um I I I'm curious mayor if you have that code provision or I I would recommend then this re-drafting option we are on a limited timeline because land use decisions in Minnesota are subject to Minnesota statute 15.99 so that is also something to consider uh something I talked to staff about is the possibility of sending it back to Planning Commission so that they can do their due diligence which is really what the city code says they have to do right that they are the ones who review these materials and make a choice and the council's merely an appeal board um but we would need more time to do that and we wouldn't be able to do that without applicant consent to extend that timeline so that I think is truly the full options but I'm you know open to council input on Direction and if there's any consensus on how you guys would like to move forward I heard some voices say maybe just adopt the denial tonight um so I'll leave it Leo what's our 60-day window so 60 days is the name of the rule well no I know what it is oh when when is the end of our 60 days I'll let Tony chime in here 19th I believe uh for in maybe clarification for me and Leah for the 60 days is it are we talking 60 days from the date of the appeal or the actual application um so it's 60 days from the application and then we extended it the code the state statute allows you to extend it once so yes so it goes through the middle of September by the 19th correct correct correct okay correct okay so there's multiple options for motions on the table to be considered um yeah I mean I encourage Council to continue to have this discussion I I definitely heard kind of one strong angle so other voices at the table feel free to chime in too but yeah there are plenty of options mayor Hoyt can based on what you stated Do you have a an opinion on the direction that we could take tonight there's a couple different options what I heard was that there is objection to some of the traffic information and the congestion and some of the comments that were made were reflective of not having Clarity on a few of the statements as it pertains to some of the the numbers and the counts and if posing this question if that in your position is the only thing that you stated five or six things so I'm just using this as an example if if that was the only thing that was precluding you from making a motion either way then In fairness to the applicant and the process you would seek clarification on that point before you made a motion either way that's where you would okay if you have multiple things that you're you're okay either way for or against then at any time you can make a motion to deny this the appeal as submitted approve it as submitted or approve or deny with other facts and findings which staff would have to change because they've been pre-preloaded and that would apply the same for council member lean if or even at all three of you it doesn't matter it's if there's something that you're missing that you have not received enough information to make a decision then you don't have to make a decision tonight but we do have a clock that we have to make a decision by yeah I mean from my end I feel like I've received a hundred percent of the information I need I wanted to present that about the traffic study because that was a comment that I think really should have had factual backing to it and it didn't but it doesn't change the conditions of the application for me um I would also note too that the comment earlier that the City attorney made relative to January 11 2022 and that discussion has zero bearing on my consideration as well again I noted that comment because it was an informal dialogue informal dialogues occur all the time but it's really not a matter of record or legal record that can be considered so Leah correct me if I'm mistaken but I will make a motion to affirm the Planning Commission decision to deny the conditional use permit and adopt the associated findings and adopt the associated Finance effect okay there's a motion by Steve is there a second second by councilmember lean call the roll please council member lean no councilmember Wilson so yes you want yes because the motion was to adopt the finance to deny then a yes would say you agree with Steve's motion that Paul would say you're against it can you recall the role please council member lean yes councilmember Wilson yes mayor Hoyt yes councilmember bernats yes all right we will get the findings the minute and handled we'll move on to item number 12 1 under new business which is our Park and Recreation advisory commission appointment and surely if you don't mind can I take this and expedite it you would like to show it okay all right so a vacancy was created on the park and rec advisory commission due to a resignation of one of our commissioners earlier this year earlier tonight we interviewed three applicants and after deliberation we um uh We've selected one applicant so at this time I would make a motion to approve the appointment of Cody Fishman to the park and recreation advisory commission pending a successful background check of the applicant for a term ending January 31st 2025. so moved second I made the motion second so motion by Hoyt second by Porter all in favor say aye aye aye any opposed nope motion passes city council Roundtable does anybody have anything that they want to share at this time are we I just wanted to give a shout out to my grandmother who turned a hundred or soon but we've celebrated it on Saturday so she had 13 children so there were a lot of us cousins celebrating so shout out to Ann Miller that's all thank you mayor anything you all got for tonight it's fair week it's fair week yes it is rides might still be open another 15 minutes so where's the Beer Garden right anything no I I just wanted to thank because we have Jackie here who is one of our applicants I wanted to thank you so much for applying as well as Ross Ross I'm so sorry Ross thank you um we love having people step up and want to serve and I hope that there is a capacity that we can put you in whether it's historic preservation whatever it is let's continue the conversation I just want to thank you all for coming um because I had to stay silent the rest of the time I had to say something so yes everybody enjoy the fair um get out and spend time with your neighbors and soak up that last bit of Summer before school starts heaven forbid I say the my kids call it the s word so anyway that's all I've got I wasn't gonna comment but I do want to uh thank Jason amundsen for his amazing I believe 18 years of service to our community we had a going away party Forum last week and um I forgot that I had done the Polar Plunge with them I think back in 2009 but I was trying to impersonate a cop and jump in Crystal Lake for that specific activity only that one limited time period just a case there's reporters here so thank you Jason and uh that's all I had when I have nothing tonight all right Shirley I don't have anything Julie Deanna John Kelly just one quick thing uh we have the preferred concept plan for Rambling River Park it's posted on the city's website under current news and I also saw it was posted on Facebook the Parks and Recreation Commission will be reviewing it at their meeting on Wednesday open to the public 7 P.M here at City Hall thank you man Chris um we're in the initial stages of the certification process we're working on that right now so let's about it thank you sir Chief I have nothing chief nothing sir Tony have you had enough all right he's had a long night I look for a motion to adjourn some moved second uh motion my port a second by Wilson all in favor say aye aye aye we're adjourned 9 48. sorry about that [Music] thank you [Music] foreign [Music]