Welcome to the Mound City Council. It's Wednesday, November 12th. Uh can we rise for the pledge of allegiance? >> I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> All right, we got our agenda. Do we have any amendments? >> We do have the police report that came in. Um, but we don't have a police officer here. There was a fire call about 6 minutes ago. That that may be where he is. So, I sort of whatever you'd like to do with that, we could just let him come up and speak if he shows up or Okay. >> However you prefer, but I don't think >> he's not on the >> No, it was not on the agenda. Okay. >> But we have this here. >> You do. >> So, we should put this into Yeah, we could just amend it into the reports at the end. >> Everybody got the report. >> So, we're just going to amend that into the agenda. >> Um, >> all right. Can I get a motion to Oh, go ahead. >> I want to pull a >> Oh, we're doing We're just in the agenda first. >> Give me a second. >> Okay. So, let's give me a motion to approve the agenda with the police department uh summary. Uh, I'll make a motion to approve the agenda, uh, amending the Oro Police Department report into the agenda. Might be like item 8.5 or something. Sure. >> Okay, we got the motion. Can I get a second? >> Second. >> Any discussion? All those in favor, please say I. >> I. >> I. Those opposed. All right, that passes. All right. And now we got consent agenda and um let's read them first and then we'll see if we want to talk about any of those. >> Does someone want to go through those? >> Sure. >> Okay. >> Uh consent agenda items A through D. A approve payment of claims. B approve minutes from the October 28th meeting. C pay request number one in the amount of $232,845.79 to Whitmer for project 25503 and D pay request number three in the amount of 371,85658 to GH asphalt for projects 25501 25502 and 255. >> All right, we got those. Does anybody want to pull any of those? >> Okay. >> I'd like to pull a >> pull a. All right. Anything else? All right. Can I get a motion to approve the consent agenda? Sans A. >> Motion to approve. >> Okay. Got Can I get a second? >> Second. >> Roll call, please. >> Council member Heric. >> I. >> Council member Mcanini. >> I. >> Council member Pew. >> I. >> Council member Castellano. >> Hi. >> Mayor Holt. >> I. All right. B, B, C, and D. Pass. and go ahead on A. >> Okay. Um, Mr. Mayor and colleagues, I'm pulling A because um I feel frustrated in the fact that every month we get this financial report which is 30 to 50 pages listing every check that's been written and it's like a void. We look at this information and something may look a little odd to us, but we don't have it in relationship. And so I'd like for us to direct the staff in coming up with a better financial report starting in 2026. Um, you know, having run organizations my entire career, I would do reports that reflected the amount to date against the budget. So you could see that. And we we have no way of knowing where we're doing in terms of our budget each year by looking at this report. plus the fact that it takes 30 to 50 pages of paper, we could eliminate that by having a more efficient report. And so that was one reason I wanted to um pull that agenda. >> I I like that idea, but I do like seeing line lists because I go through it every couple weeks to see >> what amounts are going out. But I but I think a more thorough um look at it would be great, too. So, we get the I think it's like maybe quarterly or every maybe like once a month, but there's a page at the end that gives us like the super high level, you know, like the balances of everything, but it's not really >> super clear at the end. >> Yeah. I forget what the title of that report's called, but >> Well, it's in here. >> And the checks aren't the same every month either. So, I mean, they would have to be like >> just spelled out with the ones that are written >> micromanaging, I feel like. Um, and I'm not sure that a lot of other cities, um, I did talk to a colleague in man, um, in Minnetonka, and they don't get a report like that. >> They're a bigger city. So, I mean, if if the the idea of this is for us to be able to do some sort of overview, management, supervision, looking at just amounts, um, doesn't help me know if we're managing the budget, if we're over or under. It just tells me that there were five checks written for Microsoft for each of the program areas. Or I guess um, one revelation this month was the liquor store buys a lot of THC. >> Yeah. you know, so it whatever it is called so people are having a good time amount. Um, you know, so it it's not informative. >> So you want to see more than the fund summary at the end. >> Yeah. I mean, I think the run rate >> Yeah. to just give us a budget against the budget, you know, what's been spent to date. Uh, we have a city manager. I trust our staff. That's their job to manage with the finance people. Um and that if there was some overage or you know inac inaccuracy that they would bring that to us and say you know this is uh a change we need to make or we're over or we're under whatever. >> Right. I like that because it does provide some clarity and um truth and can actually go out and look at it. Yeah. Disclosure. >> Yeah. But I do like seeing the checks only to your point which is partially I think what Sherry's trying to say which is >> you know >> this is showing the checks that are written out that looks like different they see batches but I'm assuming they're running through different funds. >> Yeah the fund number >> it seems like the liquor store has well half the report. >> Yeah >> because it's all the every single thing they buy it's in there >> right every time they buy beer it's more beer bought. >> Yeah. There's multiple phases of it, but so, you know, I guess I'm more concerned about the top level, like are they making money or not? And does that help >> our town, you know, >> and we get that from them. You know, the liquor store does give us that yeartoday report. So, we we do see that. But I also do like I like seeing it and and I'll tell you there's been times where you know Jesse and I have talked I'm like well what is a lot of times the description doesn't it doesn't >> I don't know what that is >> and I'm like why are we spending so much you know thousands of dollars on a cell phone bill or something like that and I'm like >> we all peel through you know I do the same thing >> said no >> uh 128,000 to >> right >> pmber companies well it does say los cost you know improvement so we can circle back to see if it made sense. But, uh, I I like that and I think maybe we should add that as a priority for our party list. >> Yeah, there's probably like 10 different ways to do it, you know, like what do you want the report to say? >> Well, I leave it up to the staff to come back and recommend what they think would be a useful financial review tool. >> Yeah. >> For us, >> because they manage the budget, you know, they do a good job of that, but it'd be cool to see >> the breakdown of it. I think the only variable is like we'd have to consider like isn't it um twice a year when the property tax increments like go in. So it could look like we're like >> getting way ahead when we're not. >> I don't know. That might be the only moving >> but but you can indicate that >> like the fund balance will look super low but it's really not >> right. I'm sure he's advertising that. I've, you know, line item for years and, you know, are we buying things on Amazon that we could get cheaper than if we went somewhere else, right? Or Home Depot or it's not even in our city or do we support, you know, our hardware store, you know, and again, there's discussions on that all the time. Um, sometimes they got to get something quick, right? There's some issue that they got to fix. But um I I guess we dork it out in our finance meeting, right? So which we're having Tuesday morning again. Um so I'm fine reading those numbers like that, but we get it randomly not in the packet like this though. >> Yeah. >> So I think we we're maybe a little bit more on top of what's happening behind the scenes. So >> Well, maybe in that >> maybe you should have more of those every time. >> Well, no. I I don't necessarily think that all of us need all of that, but maybe if the finance committee rethinking its responsibilities, right, >> if you're the ones to to sort of scrutinize the line items, um you know, I just think that that this is um you know, I mean, I've been doing this for now for seven years. >> Yeah. >> And every time when I go through it, I just think, why am I doing this? >> You know, I ran How does this help me? >> Yeah. I ran nonprofits for >> Yeah. 30 years and I never had to give the line items on my um checks. I mean now if a check for me it was over like $5,000 then we reported that. So you could do that you could say over a certain but you know to see like when they were changing out phones I guess in the last couple of months to see every single phone they're all the same. What what was the page point of having a page with, you know, those five things on there? That wasn't value added for me. >> Well, I appreciate that transparency to to know what each of >> it's transparent, but you know, do we really need to know that? I mean, we have a city manager, we have a finance director. I think that that's within their job and that we're to be a little bit above that. I don't think we need to be doing as much micromanaging. >> He has limits that he can do on his own. >> Yeah. >> And actually, we've talked about that, too, cuz >> we want to replace this projector >> and he has all rights to just do it. >> And through our conversation, he's like, well, plus he didn't know the building, right? >> But I was like, just go buy a, you know, fix the problem, right? You have the budget, you can do it. Mhm. >> Do I need to see the little, you know, at the same point, you know, we're responsible for people's >> Well, we could have policy that acquisitions over >> We already a certain amount. >> We already do. And >> so I said, "Well, just go buy the TV if that's if you think that's right. You're the You're running our city. >> Go buy the TV." And I think he's going to go buy it. I don't know if he did yet, but >> it's on sale here. >> It's going on sale. See, he's a good city manager. >> Um I don't know. We could just do like priority for next year is to ask for maybe like a few different versions of what they think might answer our questions. >> Yeah. Like do you like this one? Do you like this one? You know the info. What info do you want? >> It should just be a high level. >> This is from >> I like the >> I like to see all the transactions. Me too. >> So I would leave that in there. But I would say a summary >> would be helpful. >> How does this relate to >> you know the year? you know because again we we don't meet all the time >> when we do meet and we're looking at the budget I mean it's >> we are kind of seeing that so >> maybe maybe they could just trans update that file >> yeah if it was like then you just update >> maybe we're talking on Tuesday morning maybe we can sneak that into the conversation >> um we're meeting the finance committee so or if you have other ideas with other cities maybe get it to Jesse then we can work on >> work do that uh with our priority list I would leave it to the staff's discretion, >> but they want to >> get what you want in there. >> This is perfect. >> Yeah. >> So, maybe show a word about >> So, one of the things that we'll need to do is take a look at what the requirements are for payment of claims and what the city has to have in front of it council for making its approval. >> Um, I just doing a quick research and there's some statutory requirements. Doesn't mean you can't have even if we have to have an itemized list like this. so you can approve the payment of claims. It doesn't mean that you can't have more information provided. >> I think I'm sure I think in my discussions I had with the council member before the meeting, it sounds like that's at a minimum that's what she's looking for is to get some context to what's in front of her. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Like I see Mory's Buffalo Ford 4100 repair truck number 420, right? I mean it kind of explains it all. replace the air vea cut holes and for plow mount blah blah blah 4 grand right um I mean we have to approve it but >> it's already spent right >> and but you could we can call you and you can talk about it but instead of >> doing all that is there better context that you can figure out so that >> I would say just from the standpoint of how much detail we do provide we're probably more transparent than the average city and I think that's >> was a council directive previously and it's >> certainly doesn't need to go away but um you know we do these monthly reports but I think something basically what I'm gathering is something a little more easily digested uh and that would be good for the resident too so I think we can put our heads together and come up with something >> okay >> again keep the list but on top of that maybe do a summary at the end or something about >> well Michelle just pointed out to me page 2900 which I've never even seen this. This is a total breakdown >> of the general fund and >> wa water all the funds. So I don't know if this is not part of every packet but this shows a lot more information than I think Sherry what you're asking >> balances what did you say >> 2900 it's at the very end of the agenda packet. >> Yeah. So we do include that once we close for the month council. So it's not every month. Sometimes we're behind, maybe six weeks, but that's what we do include. We can spruce it up, >> get it more, you know, intuitive and more detailed. Absolutely. That can be done. >> This is nice to see. >> So yeah, like the other one here is this budget reporting for the month of September. >> If we had those each month and then cumulatively have them in one file that we could go to and pull up. >> Yeah, we can break that on the website. >> Absolutely. We can break all nine months out, break it out more, and maybe >> do some graphs, make it look a little more visual. >> Yeah, exactly. >> Thank you. Okay, >> that would be great. Yes, >> good. Good idea, Sherry. >> Thank you. >> All right. >> You good with that? >> All right. And then do you want to make a motion to approve that? >> Okay. So, I make a motion to approve >> a um on the consent agenda. >> Okay. Uh we got a motion. Can I get a second? >> Second. >> Okay. Any other discussion? All those in favor, please say I. >> I. >> Those opposed. >> All right. A is passed. No. >> Um, number five, we're going to go comments and suggestions from citizens present present that their item is on an agenda. You want to come up? We'll give you three minutes. >> Welcome. Can you give us your name and address? >> Yep. Lisa Anderson. Scott Reed. Scott Reed. >> We're at 4754 Manchester Road. So, we're here to talk about something that has been a complaint that has >> that has gone into the city a couple times about uh 4762 Manchester Lane. Um I think Kathy, you may be familiar with that. I don't see um Andrew here, Andy here, but he's certainly familiar with it as well. >> And and this is Val's neighbor. >> Yes. Yes. Thank you. Val couldn't be here tonight, so um I can't speak on her behalf, but you know, she has concerns as well. So, as we understand that the permit was granted for a fourth driveway to put in at the residence. Um that's still under the ground coverage. That's great. We are all for people improving their their property, but what I don't feel has been addressed is um the junk in the yard and the um the amount of storage of things in the yard. So, if I look at our city ordinances, it talks about excessive storage of items in the yard. I don't know what the definition of, sorry, a little nervous. Excessive is. Um, and then the other ordinance about accumulation of junk, debris, rubble, or construction materials. I don't know what is considered accumulation, but if you look at the property, um, and I think there's been several people out to that property, it's got a lot of stuff. >> What's the address again? >> Yeah. What's the address again? You actually have photos of it, too. 47 >> 62 >> 62 Manchester Road. >> Um, >> and while I think, you know, it may be uh coming down to a little bit of a neighbor um, you know, not liking each other and I think uh, you know, I can probably say the neighbor's a little salty because I actually called the city and said I think he needs a permit for the excavation that he's doing on his property. He did need a permit. Um Andy did come out and he had to put in that black piping for erosion so that the dirt would not go into um the you know the water the water the water system. But I just feel like our voice as residents it's not being heard as far as um you know if I were to put my house up for sale that would be be a deterrent. Definitely be a deterrent. >> It would drop our property values down majorly. >> Yeah. So I'm just um asking if that can be looked at or considered again. Um, >> may I approach with these photos? >> And I also have photos from this evening, too. >> Okay. >> On my phone. >> Yeah. So, just a couple of things. I know we only >> makes it difficult for us to back out our driveway when he has a truck and trailer parked in front directly in front of our driveway when he has room in his own driveway. >> Okay. >> And just I I know we only have three minutes, so um I just the permit. How long is that permit good for? And is there an inspection done after that driveway is put in? >> Jesse, can you speak to that? >> Building permits are good for 180 days. Okay. >> They can be extended, but there's inspections. Yes. >> Okay. Um, so I know that obviously he had to present a plan for what he was doing. Does it the driveway bump directly right up to my property line where I have a very huge tree that I'm concerned if there's something not done right foundationally it's going to affect >> that tree? >> I don't know the specifics of where it's going. Okay. >> Um there are setback requirements though. >> Okay. >> Believe it's at least a couple feet for driveways on side lot lines. >> Okay. >> So they will need to meet required setbacks. >> Okay. So, somebody will be out and and watching what that because I'm assuming he's doing it himself and not having it professionally done. >> Yes. >> Which concerns me. >> I did drive over there over the weekend and I could see was taking trees out and >> Yeah. >> and Val was very heard about that. But I mean that's >> and now we have logs laying in both >> and you know >> how long is that going to lay there for? Well, and I I have talked to Jesse, our city manager, about this and um Andrew Drilling, you know, who's our compliance officer. >> Yeah, I've spoken with him, you know, a couple times. >> So, I I think we we I think you're alerting us to we need to do a better job at keeping >> the residents who have a complaint, a valid complaint. Um keep them in the loop of of what is being done, even if nothing's being done to date, just that you haven't been forgotten. and we have had several conversations about that. Um, so hopefully this will help in trying to get a new process in place that we can keep ongoing problems on the radar >> and keep residents alerted to to what's being done. Yeah, we'd like to go out and sit out on our deck and be able to enjoy our backyard, but we have to walk out and look at all that garbage with a a smoker, a pellet smoker with the attachment rotted off, two uh gas grills, construction materials, logs, everything else. We can't go out and enjoy our deck anymore. >> Well, a lot of this falls under it's not fun to go out there anymore, >> right? And and I understand that it's been difficult because your previous um neighbor, you know, kept his kept beautiful and that's entitled to what they want to do on their property. I am just looking at what our city ordinances say and wanting to understand what is our definition of excessive and accumulative because from my point of view, my simple world, it's excessive. >> Yeah. Yeah. It it looks pretty cluttered. >> Yes. >> And like this evening, I came home from work. I had leaves blown and in our driveway. He didn't have the consideration to blow those leaves out of our driveway. Plus, he has a truck and a trailer parked directly in our driveway, which he had to back in and out twice to get out of our driveway when he has spaces in his driveway, his driveway to park that truck and trailer. Yeah, I mean I can understand your frustration and it sounds like Jesse, you guys are on top of it and we'll keep them all in the loop on what's being done. >> Yeah, I can give you my card here. >> That'd be great. >> Thank you. >> When was the first official complaint complaint? >> Um couple months ago. >> Yeah, it was >> okay. >> Two, three months ago. >> Yeah. I mean in all I mean it was a struggle to hear back from the city which is again concerning because I actually >> called when you complained. >> I actually came in to the city and spoke with somebody. So did my neighbor Val. >> You talk to >> um I talked to Andy at the time. >> Okay. >> I'm I think maybe Val may have talked to Jesse the first time. >> Okay. >> Um then she sent an email uh because I think Kathy she ran into you at some event and sent an email to Kathy that went unanswered for maybe three weeks. So, she sent another email um that didn't get any attention. And then she sent a third uh very powerful email, very frustrated email. And that's when she got a call from I'm not sure who called her back, but she was basically told, "Hey, he's got the the permit." Um nothing we can do about the junk. And so, you can only imagine as a resident how that felt. >> And who who said >> I don't know who called her back. I could certainly find out who who did, you know, eventually make that phone call to her. Uh, I I believe it was Andy. >> Okay. >> Because I I did just speak with I've spoken to her several times >> and um I mean I really I really understand the frustration because nothing is more maddening than just not being contacted when you've left message after message. And >> this started a year ago. >> Oh, >> you you know the >> he's been working on this project for two years. >> No. It was it was the fall before last that he started working on this without a permit. >> Okay. >> And I don't understand why you have >> uh ordinances and they're not being enforced when you're supposed to have a permit for that. >> Yeah. >> Well, we're getting a little long on our three minutes, but yeah. >> Uh first of all, we have to have have a complaint, right? So once that if that was two years ago, shame on all of us for not following through, right? if it was only two months ago. These things take time unfortunately and it's terrible. The attorney can talk to it, but uh we are the last two years we're really trying to get a little bit more teeth into when we do send a letter >> that actually something is going to happen. Yeah. Now that just cuz you send a letter someone goes, "Yeah, my neighbors, you know, mean to me, right, toss >> and then another month goes by and then we say these do unfortunately they take time." So now that you've come out, we're on top of it. Um I do want to talk maybe at the end of the meeting about our enforcement uh position as as it is anyway but I'll >> great >> uh talk for listening appreciate thank you for listening keep in contact with you >> uh anybody else. All right. Hear none. >> Number six. Guess what? Congrats. You want to say something? >> I was just going to introduce our new deputy city manager. So, we have a resolution in front of you appointing Ila as the acting city manager. We thought we could, it's normally a consent item, but since this is her first meeting here, um, thought she's up for it, maybe to approach and then we can >> Can I take some pictures? >> And and I apologize. >> Uh, we just did a workshop and um, she was sitting there and and I thought you already met everybody, so I apologize for that, but I've already had one meeting with you, but no, >> very very excited to have you here. So, >> welcome. Oh, well, thank you, mayor, members of the council. I'm Laya Mihi. I'm the new deputy city manager, and I'm very excited to serve your community um in this role. I come from the city of Hopkins. I was there for 5 years as the special projects and initiatives manager, and before that, I was at the city of Shakpi as well as with WSB, a consulting firm as a planner. So, have a lot of experience in municipal government, but very excited to get to know your community and work with each of you. Um, and hopefully very few times as the acting city manager, except for that we hope Jesse takes, you know, a vacation or two. Um, and you know, I am happy to answer any questions that you have tonight. Otherwise, it's just great to get to know all of you and, uh, we had a great work session. So, thank you for letting me be a part of that. >> Yeah. Does council have any questions? >> No. Welcome. >> Welcome to Mount. >> Great. >> You want to take a better >> Yeah. I I do. Um, are you gonna be handy or anything or >> do you want to >> What do you want to What do you want to say? >> Well, I mean, >> if you'd like me to hand her something. >> Shake, shake, shake. >> Maybe Jesse shake her hand. >> I certainly could. What? Whatever you want. >> Well, why don't you come up here, shake each other's hands, and I'll get the word. >> He wore a dress shirt today. >> Someone else. >> No, she >> Well, that's really want to shake your hands. >> Yeah, do it. >> Whatever. You want to help? What? stand next to each other. >> Yeah, I'll just duck. >> Cool. >> Welcome. >> I'm shaking your hand. >> I didn't get a picture of that. Get >> crazy. >> All right. So we actually have to do the resolution 2588. Does someone want to make a motion? >> It's on page 2864. >> I can do that. Okay. >> Um I would like to make a motion approving resolution 2588. Okay. >> Got a motion. Can I get a second? >> Second. >> Any other discussion? >> All those in favor, please say I. >> I. I. >> Those opposed. >> All right, that passes. >> All right. Number seven, we got uh public hearings. A action on resolution 2589 adopting a street reconstruction and overlay plan. So, Mr. Mayor, members of the council, we do have two public hearings to be held today. These are in relation to basically our next five years of CIP as we've as we've kind of gone through the financial management plan and as we continue to update that. Um what we can do is as a city is hold one public hearing at the front end of this what's called the street reconstruction overlay plan. Um which essentially preempts future uh opportunities for reverse referendums. So, at this time, there's a you'll actually see in the in the packet, there's a a very nice memo from Noah that lays that out that um we're giving the public an opportunity to sort of see it all up front at once and then annually we'll come back to issue debt for these road projects over the next 5 years. On top of that, uh the the second public hearing is related to tax abatement bonds, which is basically a a way of paying for bonds with specific properties. And then at the end of all of that, we have an actual bond issuance that does not require public hearing, but is part of this overall conversation that's going to pay for portions of the um commons project, street projects over the next year, some sewer, and a number of other projects. Um this was something that was going to be two issuances. We're doing it at one time for two years worth of issuances to save a few bucks from issuance costs. So, uh, Noah's here. Um, Stacy's here from Ellers as our, uh, um, representative there. We've got Matt Bowman, city engineer. We got Ryan Preach, public works director. All questions can be answered, but um, first things first, I can pass it back to you if you want to open up the first public hearing and then we can sort of go from there. >> All right. I'm going to open uh, public hearing on the adopting a street reconstruction overlay plan. if anybody wants to come up and tell us what you think. All right, I'm going to close the public hearing none. Um and on a are we voting on that? >> So yes, >> 2877. >> Yes, 2877. And um obviously happy to ask or answer any questions related to that. Um there's a list of all the roads in there. This doesn't mean that we're going to necessarily have to issue that amount of debt. This is just uh an opportunity to, like I say, preempt some of the future public hearings that would have had to happen in order to do that yearby years. So, we'll just kind of tee it up for the first five years. Does >> council have any questions for Jesse or anybody else in the room? >> I have some concerns about this. I mean, it feels like it came out of the blue. Um, I mean, first of all, talking about the tax abatements, I thought we already had all the money set aside for lost commons. So, I don't understand where this is coming from. Also, with the street reconstruction plan, is this a new what is it? What are you calling this? Um, >> S O. >> Uh, yeah. Is that something new that we're that that we can utilize or >> No. >> So, first about the park, we had the money set aside for phase one. Phase two, we were always going to issue debt. So, that's what we're doing now. We're issuing debt for phase two of the Lost Lake comments. Phase one was uh paid for by the land sale. >> That makes sense. >> Well, we did have it in the budget to do this. >> Yep. This was always in the financial management plan. This is the last time we'll be issuing debt for parks um throughout the rest of the CIP. And I think I wrote a memo back in May when we were discussing this that if approved we will be issuing debt for this park related project. >> Okay, I missed that. Um because we in 2024 we >> I think it's confusing because there was two phases. The first phase was we sold land for $700,000. We utilized that to build phase one. Now we're on to phase two. We can't cash flow that in the parks fund. So, we have to issue debt, which we'll do. And then that point forward, the phase three that's in the CIP, we're hoping to build up our balances over time to pay for it. That's the plan as of today. Um, to talk about the SRO, the city is used to um special assess for properties as part of the financial management plan. It was the goal of the council not to special assess moving forward on the next generation of streets. So, we're redoing all the streets from 2023 and 2020 or 19 that were built. We're doing the next stage, the mill and overlay, keeping up the maintenance. A goal was not to assess. So, we need to find another avenue to issue that debt and this is it. >> Did we did we pass that to not pass on to properties or when? >> Uh that was before us before >> it was in the fall of 2023 as we built this out. >> Okay. >> No, you the >> to not assess. >> To not assess? >> Yeah. to not assess was June of 24 is when the financial management plan was adopted. >> But the non-assessment that was that's been >> longer than that. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. That part of it >> guess that was due to the >> you were like the last one to assess. Yeah. >> So So we did get challenged on the last one. It is getting harder to prove the assessible value. We did cap out at 6,600 bucks in 2017 because of the the cost of the projects. council at the time felt that no longer assess. And then this is our planned issue debt. It's still going to be paid by the taxpayers like all that. Um but that is our plan. >> This whole thing looks like we're getting really close to our complete debt limit at 675. Um I I feel like I need more time to understand this and I I'm not sure if I >> So we're not going to issue any more debt. that isn't already in the financial management plan. We need to be able to use a statute to issue debt. And this is the one Stacy. >> But we just issued debt in 2024. >> We did for utilities. >> Okay, that was utilities. >> Sewer. So what we did in 2024 was we went back and between 2021 and 2024. We combined all that expense and issued debt to once again to save on issuance costs. But that was utilities. Now we're moving on to streets, which is different. And that's why we also need to have this is because it's not being paid for by the utility rates. >> Will this affect what at that time Stacy we got the double A rating. Is this going to affect our rating at all to issue this much more debt? >> Do you want me to come up and speak in the mic? I'm happy to do that. >> Yeah, come on up. >> All right. Give us your name. >> Yeah. Thank you, mayor, members of the council. Stacy Quiling with Ellers and Associates, your uh financial adviser. So the question is will uh issuing more of this debt impact your your rating and the answer simple answer is no. We look at that and when we had our last rating call with the rating agency we project going forward and they've seen your long range financial management plan which is part of what they like in securing that double A that you have but essentially we've been forecasting that's this will be coming down the pike and so they like to see the reinvestment within your community. So you should be fine >> but this fits into the long-term financial plan. That's kind of like the I think the important part to mention if I'm understanding that right, >> mayor, council member, that's correct. So, this was all these projects were input into the CIP as part of that. The uh street reconstruction plan that you're doing the public hearing is just one step that you have to do. Uh then you have to uh come before you each time with plans and specs for each of the projects. So, the one that's before you is the 2025 and 2026 projects that you will be actually issuing bonds for this year. If you're going to do a bond issuance in 27, then we'll come back before we get the plans and specs and what the bond would actually look like for that. >> So, we're I mean having a public hearing obviously to follow statute and be transparent, but this isn't a new expense. It's not >> it's in our CIP. It's in our long-term financial plan. >> Well, if you remember the >> I wouldn't say ex Yeah, maybe Excel spreadsheet. Remember, you know, we had some bonds falling off and then we had some coming back on and >> remember that, Noah. Right. >> So, >> we've we've seen this. It's just the different way of seeing it, I guess. >> Well, I mean, you you look at our the 2025 20 26 reconstruction and mill overlay and then, you know, you get out to 27 and 28 and 29 and it's a lot. >> Oh, I know. Yeah. So because this Ryan is constantly ongoing that the the overlay the miller this never ends does it? >> So is this something you're going to have to look at every single year? >> Mayor council member yes we look at the numbers every year and we work with staff to have those updated uh because they change. Those are estimates right and they try to put inflationary costs in there but it is what it is and once they know what the actual projects are that they're going to fund that year we'll look and we'll realign. So if you have 15 20 streets on the mill overlay for 2027, that may not necessarily be accurate. We may have to add more >> if if you remember when we were talking about our budget in September and and then I said something like, you know, if we can kick a project, you know, the next year, we don't have to do one of these projects. We're not doing it. Right. At the same point, I think it was Matt, right? you were sh you're showing the the time lapse of how long these projects last the arc or whatever, right? And then there's like that break even >> and unfortunately, you know, we're already kind of tight as it is. This is just a procedure to kind of do what we've already planned to do with our plan with >> and it's more of a procedural thing versus um you know when we come back in the future you know 2027 20829 that's going to be they're going to come with actual hopefully harder numbers at that time. >> And mayor you hit the nail on the head. You're you're setting up a process right and setting the table for what you may do in the future annually. you make the decision about what streets actually get done and what you're actually going to finance with debt. That will come back before you. What your book ends are is that basically every project that's listed in there is something that you can fund or not fund. If you're going to add a totally different project that's not in there, we're going to come back through another public hearing process. Also, we are capped at our maximum amount of what we would actually issue. But again, debt issuance is an annual decision that you make based upon the projects that they're bringing forward. It just it just looks when I look at this like, you know, we've made a lot of progress with your help, you know, to to move. It looks like we're going to move back to the 2016 era of 60 grand. And, you know, and this doesn't even bring up our water, >> you know, with what we need to and we're getting close to our cap point. >> So, what if we have an emergency? What if what we don't know what we're doing with water? >> That's why this makes me nervous. >> True. But that's why we're doing the utility rate study to see if we somehow do get 15 million and we took the other 15 million roughly. Um how how do we pay for this? And it'd be through the utility rate side. This is you know kind of a different subject per se but yes >> and mayor council member that debt limit is only for tax supported debt 100% tax supported debt. So any utility debt that you issue does not account for that. Right. So the utility portion of the debt that you're issuing in this bond issue doesn't count towards that debt limit. The tax abatement bonds that you're issuing as part of this does not count towards that. It's only 100% tax supported. And so that's generally going to be street reconstruction bonds. Uh capital improvement plan bonds that you may do for a new city hall, new public works facility, new, you know, fire hall. Those types of things are typically what's traditionally counted against that. or any equipment certificates that you may have for large purchases of, you know, vehicles or fire engines or things of that nature. So, >> and and in that we do have a large purchase for the new sweeper, right? We're going to need new sweeper coming up >> sucker leaf sucker whatever it's called. >> So, yes, the back truck is going to get moved from 2030 to 2027. We've worked on updating the financial management plan. Our goal is still to cash flow that purchase and not issue a equipment certificate at this point. So, >> okay. And how much is that? >> And could be up to $900,000. >> Yeah. >> But we have, again, we all know the story. We have 30 lift stations and that's a a tool we can't be without. So, >> Well, but what's the next tool we can't live without? I mean, I agree with um Councilwoman Mcne that right? And um I'm not comfortable with this because I don't feel like we've been given enough time to really research this. I mean, I didn't pick the information up till Monday, so that's partially on me. Um this is a public hearing and we have no one from the public except for these three people. And I'm going to guess they didn't know anything about this. >> No, just learning. >> Yeah, >> this hearing about it now. >> And so that's a concern that I have. Um, I mean, I get that this is a go and all that fun stuff and I understand what she's uh what the lady from, um, Ellers is saying. Um, I have to say I'm not comfortable with this. I would like to see it tabled to our next meeting. >> So, let's table it and then you guys can call them and >> I'd like to do more research. >> Yeah, >> I would too. I mean, we are, >> as Kathy was mentioning, um, sorry, Council Mcadin, I had a hard time with that. Um, yeah, I mean, this just feels like we're getting awful close. I mean, I don't know, and maybe the lady from Ellers can, you know, explain it, but I mean, this it's the same pool of households that we're taxing as far as the estimated market value, but where in this calculation includes what they're already accountable for for the school bond issue that was just issued last year. That's That's a school district. That's nothing to do with us. >> But it's the same pool of people that are getting taxed, >> but they don't have any control. >> That's has nothing to do with us. >> Well, it's are the ability of the school district >> and the city. >> Yeah. >> Same households to pay back that debt. It's coming from the same pool of people. >> So, I mean, I don't know if that's part of that calculation or not. I would think or expect that it would. >> We got to run a city. >> I understand that. >> Regardless of what the school district decides, >> I understand that. But in that calculation is the MV which is 2,ion250 or 2 billion excuse me 250 million which is the estimated market value of the households within our districts. >> So how does that relate to the school district >> because it's the same you're paying as a household. >> Oh I know. I >> taxes for the school and for any bond issues. This is a general obligation bond or a go whatever you want to call it. At the end of the day, your ability to pay your taxes is what they're concerned about. That also affects our bond rating as a city. >> So, mayor, council member, um, you are correct. You can go ahead and change it. So, the mayor's correct. You are only in charge of what? You're not in charge of the school's budget or the county's budget essentially that's out there. >> Your only way to pay for these roads because you do not have enough cash. You don't have cash to do it is to issue debt. And this is your only mechanism to do it. >> You can also tax higher, but anyway, go ahead. >> We could set a higher level, but you have costs now that you don't have cash to pay for the projects. So, we can delay the or you know, continue the public hearing, right? If that's what you want to do or it's already closed, I guess. So, if you want to delay your decision, >> uh, but essentially what we'll have is that we're going to have to push off the sale of the bonds. So, that's just I look to Noah to make sure that we got cash in the interim. Uh, because we do have projects and costs that you approved in checks tonight that are going out that we were anticipating that we'd have bond proceeds. So, uh, this will push that sale out and and we'll look to see what the implications are with that. But essentially, when it does come back to you in two weeks for approval, we will need 2/3 approval, um, majority, uh, for that plan to be approved and so that we can move forward with the bond issuance. >> Well, I'd like to take a closer look at if you look on page 28.87 87 when it shows the actual from 2016 we were up to 67 and actual cost in 2024 we got down to 33 which is great projected in 2026 33 but again my concern is this takes nothing into account if we have to do any financing for water >> I know this is a completely separate subject >> I know but I I know it's a separate subject but we're getting so close to our limit moneywise I I'm concerned that are be thinking far enough ahead to make sure we can deal with. >> So, the whole point of the financial management plan was to >> get a grip on our debt issuance. So, we're going to issue, as far as the plan, about $28 million through 2029 in total debt, not counting the water treatment facility. >> Currently, right now, we are at just about $34 million. We have a plan to manage our debt, and this is one step. We are coming up on 20 years of the street reconstruction projects that started in 2003. We can decide not to maintain them, right? But we do we're not going to be able to cash flow that entire process. We would never be able to do that. It's it's an impossibility. We I mean we'd be levying significantly. We're talking like 567 million above what we're doing now of the $8.3 million we're living just to cash on that. I don't think that's realistic. I think this is a good plan. We did talk about this in the spring that we were going to be issuing debt for the parks and the streets. What we're doing now is we we're laying out what our plan is for the next five years and we're grabbing 26 because Mr. Mr. Balman has started the preliminary aspects of the street the preliminary work of his street that issue one debt issue is excuse me debt issuance to save on money. This is all within the financial management plan that we've discussed and this is our avenue with state statute to issue debt. >> So with the disconnect of getting to the top level of kind of what what you're saying can you explain that better? >> Can you I'm sorry. Can you repeat that? you want to say of what you're >> well you mean my concern about we're getting close to our debt limit uh you we were at 67 now we're at 33 333 but isn't our debt limit we can't exceed where did I read that earlier today x amount of money which we're we're almost there >> I don't want to talk out of school and miss a statute so I'm going to bring up the expert on that >> okay thank you Stacy thank you mayor council member your statutory debt limit today based upon your market value is about60 67 million and you even after all of these bond issuance if you did them all and that's what it cost you'd still have over 40 million in debt issuance ability and again that's only counted for 100% tax supported debt. So whatever you do at the water treatment plant doesn't count towards that. >> So but we're going to be issuing every year for the next five years and next four years and not including 2026. >> Uh mayor council member that is uh definitely a possibility and that was planned for in the plan. Uh so because you did not have enough cash uh in your reserves or could tax enough to be able to pay for those. So >> so as we looked um I can't remember the next few years but we had like the long-term financial plan or the levy was kind of you know small increases like we've been doing. This is all accounted for correct >> in that for the coming years. So, if I'm saying this right, um, like it's taxpayer funded, uh, debt like to get the streets like I mean it's it's not it's a not considered debt. It's a different kind of >> debt, right? >> Am I saying that right? >> It's not going >> it's it doesn't count against what we can borrow. Am >> I making sense? >> No. >> Sorry, but no. >> It's in our plan. It's not additional. It's in our long-term financial plan. All of this, >> mayor, council, yes. All of this is in your long range financial management plan, which we spent a lot of time going through to get you on the path to be something that was financially that you could support uh for your community and for your residents. >> So, our plan, you know, low levy increases over the coming years has this wrapped in it. >> That's correct. >> Okay. >> So, if we deviate from this, we're deviating from our plan. >> Correct. >> Is their whole point. This is we all vote well I think we all voted for a long-term financial plan. >> We did. So you're this is you're showing us that what we agreed on. >> Yes. >> And and it's just concerning to me to go backwards. >> It's big. I mean but I think a lot of it is that it's also us showing I mean for people that want to dig into it like >> how much of a streets how much are you guys spending on this you know and at least we can we can say this is planned for you know. So to that point, what are we going to do about these? Like the water fund is $6 million in debt. Again, >> our run rate anyway, I don't know if that's offset by something, but >> you're very close 6.7. >> So that is part of the plan. So the the next meeting we're going to be talking about utility rates as well with as we start them helping us at the 2026 rates. I want to touch back back on council member Mciny. Part of the plan that we developed was to limit our debt issuance as best we can. The current plan we have, our last debt issuance is in 2029. We're hoping from 2030 to 2033, we'll be able to build up enough fund balance not to issue debt. >> So that was that was the plan from the start and that's where we're going. >> And we're still with our was it 2030ish 2032 to be at the levels that we need to be at with each of our funds. In other words, getting out of water. Getting out of the hole, get out of the sewer hole. Right. >> 2030 is for water. Storm is another topic that we'll have to discuss early in 27. >> Yeah. >> Um but yes. >> Okay. So the the five six million that were in the hole for water, which >> talked about a lot of times >> is we have a trajectory. If we stay on our plan, we will 2030 >> if we stay on the plan. if we're able to um increase rates to the levels within the financial management plan that will increase >> and yes that does not include the water treatment plan. So we need to stay on our plan and it's not a great number because we got to we got to raise rates every year to stay back on on our water plan without even thinking about a water treatment plant. Yes, we know that. >> And it's this is where we are. And again, I think we've talked about this like here we all signed up for this and >> this is how this is how we got here, but um a lot of this we didn't do to ourselves, but we're trying to fix the problem and kind of get us out of the the hole that >> we find ourselves in. >> Huh. >> It's the first time we've had a plan in a long time. It is. And I appreciate all the work you've done to show us, >> right? >> You know what's happening here. Um, you know, my brain just needed more explanation because to me, I just feel like we keep going backwards, even though I know we we all want to get us out of this situation that we were left with. Um, and sometimes numbers don't look as encouraging as maybe we discussed earlier, but >> I think if we had the chart, I know we don't have it right now, but right, >> if we had like that that Excel thing that remember you saw some dropping off, some coming back on, >> but then at, you know, 2030, 2032, everything's looking a lot better around here, right? >> If we stick to the plan the next how many years, right? >> And we and we're paying off debt. We're adding debt on as we go, of course. But the goal is to limit it cuz that was a mandate from the council. The best we can do is right now is issue debt through 2029 and then the last four years not issue debt while still maintaining our streets. >> Right. >> And the other concern I have is you know we're projecting on these 27 28 29 which is pretty substantial. >> I mean a lot could change by then. That that's why that that's what brings me concern going into the future that maybe the best late plans aren't going to get us out of that. >> There's rarely a CIP schedule where there's something that isn't added that we did not foresee. We just have to live with that and do the best we can with the plans we have. There's going to be times that comes up where oh we have to do this street or we have to do this force main. That's going to happen. It happens every time. >> So then do we reforcast or no? Yeah, we absolutely for we have a model that Ellers helped us develop uh Stacy and Kyle that were able to um forecast that out. Additionally too, we're still going to be issuing debt responsibly based on the plan. We know our mandate and part of it is we are issuing one debt for two years to save on money. Well, I mean, I I completely trust your expertise in this and obviously with Stacy's help. Um, you know, and I guess there's just nothing that can make me feel great about this other than stick with the plan and we'll see our benefits. >> We're in a heavy infrastructure industry, cities. We have to maintain them and it's not realistic to cash flow the amount that we have coming up in the five years. It just isn't. I know we're not talking about the levy right now, but can you just tell us why why shouldn't we just go up to 15% on the levy, right? Instead of doing something like this. >> I I don't know if we'd get to those dollar amounts to be able to cash flow. We're talking about major street projects. >> So So even if we went up another nine or 10, depending on what we >> It wouldn't. Yeah, >> you you can't >> you'd have to go up another nine. Yeah. And then when we start getting to >> I think 2027 and 2028 is when we start getting two to three street projects in a two-year period. And the numbers just get daunting, >> right? >> It was a major step. We are levying over a million dollars in the street CIP fund. We were doing 200,000 not that long ago. It is a major step that we've taken. >> Yeah. >> But you can't get 5 million. That's I don't think that's a realistic option to do every year just in this. So the other option is okay levy this or we just delay and we just see what happens with our roads. And obviously with Jesse, you know, we talk about that and we in our finance we the four of us are usually talking too of okay what exactly can we push off or you know do we need to do things and I think >> I don't know if it was you or Eric but you know I know we we did push um a project or delayed it a little bit if we could >> conditions based we always look at conditions we don't just do a project because it's on the CIP. Exactly. Typically it's on the CIP. It's been a problem for two years prior and we're just doing it now. So, what you're doing is you're kind of resetting the clock on your streets with the 20 year that you were discussing, >> right? >> And that's what we're that's we're just because we started in 2003 >> and now it's 2025 and we're starting that first street that we touched. >> I think we had a half hour debate about >> push push it up if we don't have to do it. like let's not do >> can you can you talk for those of our residents who are listening the this is probably you shouldn't even have to uh disclose this but what's the difference between reconstruction on all these streets that you show and then we know what mill and overlay is but the cost for reconstruction has got to be pretty considerable >> in 2017 we we were forecasting this out because we knew there was coming. We thought Millano overlay would be very inexpensive. They've turned to look like street projects of back then. I'm going to call Matt Balman to the stage. >> Okay. >> Then maybe he can give a better update for that. >> Good evening, Mayor and members of the council. One more time on the question. >> Um well, just tell us a little bit costwise the difference between reconstruction that's recon redoing the whole street versus milling overlay. Uh roughly it's probably 20 to 25% of the cost to to do a mill and overlays. The reconstruction it varies a little bit depending on how much of the like the curb lines that need some adjustment or some of the the other utilities we need to just make small adjustments to. But that's generally what what the difference is. And then the the extent of the disturbance is is really what people will see the most because we're doing work outside of the curb and into uh their yards past the uh still generally in the rightway but into the yard. it it affects them a lot more, >> which is what they did on West Edge, which was they ripped the entire thing out and came up 15 feet into the yards and so on and so forth. >> And and that one was a little more than usual because of some of the the Met Council pipe that was in the area as well. >> And that was considered reconstruction. >> That's a full reconstruction. And so we will mill an overlay if we think we can get another 20 years out of the pavement. But if the utilities below >> ground are showing some distress or we think they're un they're they're showing that they're undersized, then we would default to doing a reconstruction. >> That's a helpful explanation for people to understand the difference >> that you you try to get you try to do mill and overlay whenever possible. >> Yeah, that's we we default to that to to the extent we can. It's usually it's conditions based. So depending on what distresses the road is seeing, then we'll decide if it can be reconstructed, mil and overlaid. some can be reclaimed. So, we can actually still do a similar process, but we're staying in within the curb line. So, that kind of a balance between those costs >> and part of that determination is you look at the pipes. >> Well, what we're doing right now with the feasibility study for the 26u >> 2026 street projects. >> So, we we have a general idea just by driving them, but then we get soil borings and we we evaluate everything in more depth >> and then we'll come back with what our final recommendations are and then we'll go to final design. But again from my understanding a lot when you make the decision on reconstruction versus mill and overlay is what go is going on underneath >> the road what you can see above and then >> correct some >> some of what you can't see though so we get soil boring so we can see several feet into the ground at specific spots and that kind of reinforces what we reinforces or sometimes redirects what we think needs to be done. >> Okay. So like West Edges has such a heavy traffic load and that's increased through the years they upgraded sub whatever that's called the underlying. >> Yeah this subgrade. Yeah. >> Okay. >> Sorry. Yeah. What's called >> right? Thank you. >> So I think this is Noah though this abatement portion of this. >> So it's taking away the tax levy >> from these 12 properties. >> So what was that tax revenue used for that's not going to get it anymore? Like We were using that tax revenue was all across the CIP or what I mean >> for all across the city. So we're just assigning that to issue the debt for the park. >> Okay. So then that revenue is not going to be in the budget for that anymore. It'll be over in the paying for the park. >> We'll be still issu we will still receive the same amount of tax revenue that we're planning for. >> Okay. >> So we're we're signing it to pay for the park debt service. So we're just dedicating it basically to the work that services >> sort of like >> Yeah, exactly right. >> Is that part of showing like we have to show that we have a plan how to pay it back? So you have to kind of like use that to quantify the amount >> the issue that through that state statute. >> Okay. >> They didn't say there's me take a look at the agenda. >> Any other questions for anybody? >> Yeah, looks like it. >> Thank you, Noah. >> Thanks, Noah. So we can approve of 89 and then then you go >> do another 25. >> Okay. >> All right. Uh does council want to chat about this? >> Um just 7A. >> Uh we're just on 7A still. Yeah. >> There is a resolution on 2877 if we're comfortable. Um >> I'm comfortable with it. >> I'm comfortable with it because I know it's in I don't have the slide. that's from, you know, way back now, but like in the long-term financial plan, knowing that this is kind of like baked into that and that we have the plan and it's >> part of what those future levy increases are. I don't have any questions. Yeah. >> Well, on the things, maybe it would be nice before this gets on the agenda to say, "Hey, to refresh your memory, >> you know, go back and, >> you know, relook at what we've discussed because >> how it ties into the >> Yeah, how it ties into this because we go through so much of this date, you know, every meeting that it kind of gets lost sometimes in the translation. So maybe going forward when we have something of this magnitude, maybe Maybe it's just me. I have a bad memory. Just say, "Hey, reboot. Go back to April and look at this and that'll bring you up to snuff here with why where we're going forward with this because I know we've talked about it and obviously we all agreed on it and why suddenly I'm feeling nervous. That would have helped me to go back and refresh my memory. I don't know that I can support this at this time. I really need to do a little more homework and get a little more information and I don't feel like I have my questions formally formatted to ask at this point. >> Yeah, >> that's on me. But >> yeah, >> do you think going back and looking at our previous discussions would help you? >> I mean, and I did try to do that, but unfortunately the website, our minutes and stuff is down. But that's >> Yeah, I know. They'll pick up. Yeah. >> Um Well, I do remember our commitment from the past, so I'm I guess I'm okay with it. >> Okay. It's never good to have to put into debt and to tax people more, but you know, I think we we did set up a good plan with the tears and keeping the levies low. So, I think we put in the thought >> that needed to be done. >> All right. Um, I mean, three of us are comfortable, so we can move forward unless we want to table it for two weeks. >> Yeah, you need >> you need four. >> That's what four, right? >> Oh, I thought it was three out of five. >> Super majority. >> 23. >> Oh, super majority. Okay. >> Well, you're not comfortable voting tonight. >> I'm not, but >> Okay. Council Mc, are you comfortable? >> Well, I I I don't know if I'm comfortable with with this until I can go back. if you could just point me back to our graphs and charts so I can see how we got here. >> Yeah, I think we could do a refresher on the financial management plan. Um I do think if we do table it we're tableabling the other two for tonight as well, I would assume. So we'd be we'd be done for the night. Um and then we kind of regroup what we want to do. Can you just bring this into a PowerPoint, get that Excel spreadsheet that shows >> what we agreed on >> all our long-term you probably have it teed up for our levy discussion. >> No, I have to caution. We are redoing the financial management plan and updating with >> the updated costs as we go, which we will always do. So, it's not going to be dollar for dollar. That's going to be impossible to do. But we can show you that our plan is to issue debt as we start the first phase of the street projects because we can't cash flow it. By 2029, we're hoping to have enough fund balance where we can cash flow 2030 to 2033. That was always the plan. Um, and it was always not to use special assessments. That was that was the goal of the financial management plan from the start. Um, and this is the only avenue we have to issue debt to continue on with our street maintenance. um long-term long-standing street maintenance program that the city's had the mill and overlay every 20 years and to reconstruct after every 60 and do crack sealed between every four and nine years. >> So, I guess there's just a little disconnect tonight. So, are we fair enough we're not blowing the alarm here if we table it for two weeks? >> I don't think we're blowing the alarm. Um, but if we if we're not comfortable issuing debt even in the future, then I think we have to relook at our 2026 street projects. But >> let me clarify. I'm not afraid to issue more debt. That's I just want to understand exactly all the details around this whole thing. >> Yeah, >> I just don't feel like I've had >> the differences. We're in the finance committee. So, we're just this is just like >> there's more information >> table stakes for me and council member Kelano. And again, maybe if we just got a little refresher course prior to these meetings, we wouldn't have to >> Yeah. >> You know, >> so yeah, I mean, >> make you have to wait two more weeks to for us to go, "Oh, it clicks. I I got it." >> And I think the street the SRP maybe is it is a new thing because we're not special assessing. So, we have to access another state statute, >> right? >> But you are in control the whole entire time. What we're doing is we're we're we're grouping together so we can do the 26 that we've already um allowed the preliminary testing to do. I think you guys want to do the 26 street project. Now is the time to issue debt that cover the 25 and the 26 and what debt one debt issuance. >> So what you just said the 25 we haven't already covered that. >> Well that's in here. >> No the 25. So that was that was part and that got >> I saw that in here but >> and so that was delayed because we want to issue with the park too as we were finalizing the park. We need to have hard numbers on the park before we can issue debt. So that's why I issued that memo saying moving forward we are issuing debt on streets and we are issuing debt on parks. I should have called that out better. That's on me. But >> well there you've done a great job. >> Yeah. I I just I just need a little more visual help getting me up to speed on this stuff and and I think from day one I've said I understand it better when I see a little backup. >> I I think perhaps if we just ran you with what our debt estimates would be for the year and I I know I did it through 26 as a point of making that we are paying off debt and we are adding debt back on but our total debt is similar. I don't know if Jesse could go to that page. Well, and to explain how we were at uh you know, we went from 60 I can't remember 67 to then we're going to be 33 >> five. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Here it is. No, that's not what it was. That's not >> how we stay for 25 and 26 at 33 still issuing debt >> because we're paying I mean because we're paying off in February and that's the point of it. We want to it's unrealistic for us to get the debt this early this low because we do want to maintain everything. So we are we do have a plan to manage it. And the other thing is I'll just repeat myself are in the plan as of right now. The last time we're going to issue debt is in 29 and then we can do the last four years of the CIP that we have scheduled off of fund balance and utility rates. Now, that's a hill to climb and there will be some pain as we do that as well, but that is the goal. So, we do have a plan, but we can spell it out better. Absolutely. >> So, we need four fifths. I know council P is going to be gone next meeting. So, assuming all four of us show up, it's just they need three out of four. >> And we'll also be talking about utility rates at that time that meeting too. Kyle will be here to present what his recommendations are for the 2026. >> I'm not I'm not but the statute is it is it four fifths of the entire council or four fifths of the quorum that's there >> at the meeting >> at the meeting. Okay. >> Two3 >> I think it's two3 isn't it? >> Well I mean it's super majority so super majority and supermajority with is >> so even if there's only three of us two of us could pass it >> two out of three. >> I don't doubt I'll have any problem with this. We we did agree on it. I just need a refresher course how we got here. >> And now would be the time to we can activate with Kyle too to kind of give us some insights where he can throw that slide. He has it already. I've been using it already what our kind of our debt plan is, but it might not spell out everything you want at this point. We can have that updated and thrown in there as well. >> I guess what I'm hearing is we're going to table it and bring everything we have tonight to the 25th meeting. >> Okay. Mhm. >> With just a little more clarity. >> Yep. We'll work on that for sure. >> I I think it's going to help residents, too, because >> I think everybody needs to know how we're getting here. >> Even though I know we're all as a group wanting to get us in the best position, >> you know, all all our residents want to see us have. But >> it's a big step. Yeah. And it we're coming up on the 20 years. So now now's the time, right? The last >> five years we didn't have to worry about this, right? We were just doing crack seal and some minor street stuff. Now we're entering that second generation as well. So it's a big deal. >> That's helpful to hear, too. Yeah. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> All right. Uh can I just give a motion then to table uh to specify both? >> What's so table? You can just do table >> 7. 7 A and B. >> Yeah, let's do the public hearing 7 B first and then table it. Why why would you have to do a public hearing if we're going to do it next week? Anyways, >> why we have to do the public hearing now because it's matter cuz you have to do it later. I mean, you can do it any way you want, but >> Oh, then we could say we did both the hearings. >> Yeah, cuz he did both the hearings. It was not because >> because the it was noticed for today and even and even though >> we don't do it then. Well, but even though you even though you don't need to put the notice for for a continued public hearing another public hearing can be made at this meeting without doing anything. But you did notice it for today and that's the only reason why I would say >> I so I would say um intering it differently. Take 7A you can do a motion to table it then go to 7B open the the public hearing close it and then do a motion to table that one. Got it. Okay. All right. Can I get a motion to table 7A? I'll make the motion to t table 7A. >> All right, you got a motion. Can I get a second? >> Second. >> Any other discussion? >> All those in favor, please say I. >> I. >> I. Those opposed. >> All right. That 7A is tabled. Uh 7B, we got action on resolution 2590 approving property tax abatements related to financing phase 2 improvements to Lis Lake Commons. I'm going to open a public hearing now if anybody wants to come up. Hearing none, I'm going to close the public hearing. And can I get a uh motion to table 7B? >> I'll make a motion to table 7B. >> All right. Can I get a second? >> Use a second. >> Second. >> Okay. Second. Uh, any other discussion? All those in favor, please say I. >> I. >> Those opposed. >> All right, that passes. >> Uh, so I guess we're tableabling number 82 then. Yeah. Okay. Uh, can I get a motion to table number eight? >> Anybody want to make a motion? >> I don't want to table them. So, >> okay. I get I got it. I got it. table. >> What? What's table number eight? >> I'd like to table. Sorry. I'd make a motion to table item number eight on the consent. Oh, no. On the >> Yeah, consent agenda. Sorry. Just regular. >> Just the regular agenda. >> On the regular agenda. >> Down here. Down here. Down here. Okay. >> Sorry. All right. I make a motion to table item number eight on the agenda. >> Got a motion. Can I get a second? >> Second. >> Any other discussion? All those in favor, please say I. >> I. >> I. All right. >> Those opposed. All right, that's tabled. Uh, number 85 was police. He's not here. Um, so I'd say let's just move on from that unless anybody wants to have a discussion on anything that's in the board or police or All right. Number nine, we got comments and reports from council members. Council member Pew. >> Um, well, we had the fire meeting. Um, >> thank you. last week and we're making progress. >> We uh left the meeting with three items to be resolved. Um and um it's basically down to our fire department and and St. Bonnie reaching some compromises on issues specifically around our retirement um system. we have lumpsum and um a monthly payout whereas they only have a lump sum and so um resolving that issue will um probably be the thing that will help us move forward in the future on that. So that's it. >> Let me can I expound on that just a little bit? >> Sure. >> Okay. So the other thing in that so what she was saying was the lump sum versus pension. So we got two different pensions, right, that the relief association association does. We're trying to merge those into one. You only can't have one plan. You can't have two. You got to merge into one. And they got to agree. And the relief association, 51% have to agree on the plan. We're kind of caught in a pickle right now on that. Um so what we're going to try to do is me and uh I'm actually one of the trustees of the fire relief association. Um that's just by nature of this job, this mayor thing. But um so we're doing that and then gonna try to meet with a couple maybe not too many people in the room and see if we can kind of see what we can all agree on and if we can move forward and if we can't this can kind of kill the whole deal. >> Um so we'll have to kind of see what we want to do. If it's >> How do you feel about this deal? How do you feel about where we're going? It's a long process and it's when we got into this and council member Larson would probably say this too. Both of us were like let's go let's go let's go. was just, you know, we know we want, you know, the the firemen, they for the most part, they wanted it, you know, at the at the start. I mean, very well overwhelmingly like don't not do this, right? They wanted it. >> Um, you know, a year and a half or however long it's been now. >> Um, we haven't even got to the budget. So, >> wow. >> I mean, we were we're trying to get going like January this whole thing. like we were supposed to be signed on, you know, in June >> on this whole deal and no, I mean it the average is 5 years before you even get you know so we were already now what the chief will say is well we've been chatting about this for 10 years you know already before we even started getting to the to this part. Um, so yeah, I mean it's it's it's it's not that hard, but it's hard. It's it's interesting. And you know, these two pensions that, you know, it's a big deal. Um, they got to they got to figure them out and it's, you know, yes, we have, you know, 2% money, you know, we, you know, we kind of helped them put that in there, but it's their money, right? And but their members have to agree on it. So we're talking retired people, so you know, whoever is getting their check, right? and there's, you know, 30 of them or whatever that getting checks and they don't want to stop getting checks. Well, we're saying, well, what if we give you a lump sum payout and just buy you out and it's, you know, so again, there's both sides and so one, you know, we have the pension option, which eventually those will kind of disappear because most of most of the people want the lump sum. They want a pension and the pension is good, but it's not that good. You know, it's like, yeah, give me my money and I'll make my own pension out of it. So, we're we're stuck on that a little bit. And then um so we're going to try to see if we can over the next two months figure that out >> uh with we we have a a date January >> 17th or 12th or whatever it is uh a fire meeting again. So we just kind of can the meetings for the next two months. I mean it was every other week for like you know well we've canceled a handful but you know this is constant. Plus we have the fire commission every quarter just like you know police well police is three a year maybe. Anyway, um, so anyway, that's one thing. Then we got to go, okay, well, how how are we splitting them, you know, the revenue to fund this whole thing, right? You know, Mound has all the assets. You know, St. Bonnie has all the assets. Minrista and Spring Park, they've been paying in this contract for years. You know, how does that get resolved? Does it I mean, we haven't even got to that part yet. And I'm we've there's been high level discussions on that. And it's we're not even that's going to be the next thing. So if we even get agree on the P then it's going to be that >> and then can we come together? >> Um I think I think we're all on the same we want it. Yeah. >> It's just how do we >> when you say you want it? Are you talking about >> the lid dis whatever we're talking about the >> uh joint powers. >> Joint powers. Okay. >> Yep. Um, you know, funny enough, >> Waroise, he just signed their joint powers for their fire. >> Yep. They're going kind of back back in. So, um, I've just recently heard uh up north Sandstone area. They're looking at doing some kind of uh actually I think they want to do a lid uh lake improvement districts. That's like a school district for a fire department. >> I said, "No, I don't want to do that." Right. >> Um, now the good thing it does take it off your budget on the city. the bad thing, but then it's like its own taxing authority and I just don't want to that's a whole another thing. I I thought that was be harder to get to agree on that. Although it's very similar JPA and are similar. It's just how how the money gets funded. >> You know, we all the council still agree and send the money to them. Um they'll be kind of a board that we would have point whether it's again that's the that's the other thing too. Then the governance and stuff we still haven't agreed on that. So pension, budget, governance, you know, some of these guys, you know, they do um the budgets or the numbers and stuff for our fire department. St. Bonnie does their own thing. How do we merge those two together? Does m, you know, do we still do it as mound? Do we still get paid? You know, how do what do we get paid? You know, there's a lot of details to work out. So, >> well, there was a lot of conversation when this first got rolling that, you know, we want to try to maintain our >> name >> Mount Fire Department. Is that still >> 100%. That's not changing. >> Okay. Thank you. I just been curious where we're at with that. >> It again, we're not even to that. That's like the last last part. But yeah, it would be the whatever J, you know, whatever we want to call ourselves and then it'd be Mountfire and St. B. Okay. But big picture, it' still it'd be called the Lake Minnetonka Fire Department or whatever we want to call ourselves, right? >> We wouldn't rebrand our trucks. We wouldn't rebrand anything. >> Good job. >> Um and that's >> that's what we started out saying we don't want to have to see happening rebranding. >> We would we would have a chief, right? Um >> eventually we kind of have one and then maybe a couple deputies and then you know and that's my question is like you know as you know maybe down the road we have a different chief or whatever like how does how do all those guys agree you know they're all like camaraderie type people right and they're very loyal to their department how do you combine the two now it's they do it all over the state >> but >> well Chief Peterson you know should have re retired years ago is he still hanging on. Yeah. >> Hoping this gets somewhat resolved. >> He's the one who brought this up so he wants to do this. So, um >> yeah, that's Yeah. >> So, are we working on all three of those >> issues simultaneously or are we trying to finish the pension and then move on to the >> Right now, the pension is a big sticker. >> Pension's a big >> Yeah. So, we really have to get through that or it's it's just >> the plan administrators involved or >> Yeah, we did uh the mountainside paid. Remember this came out of the relief money. So it's not our money. This is the relief's money. But >> uh was it I think it was 10 grand that they paid for actuarial >> study. >> And then you know part of it's like well you know the mound paid for that. Well St. B what are you doing? You guys pay for the next one or you know if we have to like figure this out. So, um, >> so they still have to vote on it and everything once you get >> there. Both their members have to vote. Um, whe you know if even if they're retired, they still get a vote. >> Yeah. >> Um, and to merge the two pensions. So, if if that doesn't >> is it 51% vote. Is that all we need? >> Right. >> Yeah. >> So, I mean, it's not >> horrible, but you know, you get one person that doesn't want and then, >> you know, they're all talked to, you know, I I don't know. We'll see. >> It is. Yeah. So, following pension, what is the next topic of >> I say pension, budget, >> budget, >> how we're going to, you know, split the cost between all the different cities because now we're talking >> what, five? We already have four. So, five. Well, technically have five already. So, then we'd kind of have six. Shorewood doesn't really count. I mean, we'll probably keep them more as a contract. >> They kind of bowed out early because Okay, we have the far side of >> uh the island. >> Um, they were part of the original discussions and then this and >> are they still they're not still there? >> Well, they've more or less >> they'll go with what we >> two departments to figure out their things and then they would assuming the JPA is stood up they would just stay on as a contract same way there are today >> but then >> and then number three was what then? >> Well uh budget >> well then like how are we going to governance governance >> because remember all of us have to vote on this too. >> Yeah. So, >> right, >> if if Sherry and I aren't sending this up, right, >> and it fails and we just wasted two years of I mean, this is a lot of work. It's this is not even this is one part of what we do. >> Then you do all these other things that we do up here. You know, I know we're all busy. Um, this this project alone has been a whole bunch of work. A lot of work, >> which we all knew and anticipated, >> right? >> Yeah. >> This is more than I thought, >> but we haven't had an update in a long time. So, I'm glad you brought it up. >> Yeah. Yep. Um, do you have anything else? Council March. >> Um, well, I guess you know, just remind everybody that our tree lighting is next Thursday. And then I'm not sure how many of you guys follow there's this young kid on it's called Wandermore, Minnesota. Anyway, I followed him for throughout his adventures when he was in South Dakota, North Dakota, but he's been in Minnesota and he just went through mound >> and took all the pictures. So, I'm going to send you the link. I meant to I was I haven't been in the office all day. He was just here the other day and called me because I when he was over in I don't know where can Cass or something. I'm like when are you going to come up you know western suburbs and he goes so he called cuz I wanted to take him around and of course I in photo shoot downtown all all week and I couldn't meet it but he took some good pics and got around really well. So I'll send you that link >> to post on Facebook and um Instagram. He did a good job and it's a really fun it's fun to look at all the cities around. He's been fun to follow. Um, other than that, no, I don't think I have anything else. >> All right, Council Kano, >> I don't have anything. Uh, Council Heric, >> I don't have anything. Are you going to Oh, wait a minute. What about the the Thanksgiving dinner at you talking about that? I have the sheet there. >> Thanksgiving dinner. Oh, >> the at the Legion. Oh. Um, >> or I can do it. >> Um, I actually there's a >> that thing. >> Oh, you want to talk about that? >> Yeah. Just so that everyone's aware and anyone that's watching, um, the West Tanka food shelf and the American Legion um, and the DECA from Mount Westonka High School. Um, and a lot of the churches and stuff and different community uh, friends and family are all invited to a free Thanksgiving meal. It's Thursday the 27th um from 12 to 4 pm. It is free, but I would imagine if you can make a donation or afford to, they would appreciate that. >> They are looking for donations and it's hosted by the West Hanka Food Shelf. >> Um but also the Legion will be setting it up over there and it's I think they're >> their fifth annual I think. >> I've been Yeah, I've been to one of them and they do a great job. Yeah. I mean >> and they're they get a lot of customers. The American always does a beautiful job with the food that they prepare. So, it's a nice way to get out, meet some of the people in your community, support the food shelf and the Legion, and um have a nice sit down dinner. >> Cool. >> That's all I've really got. >> I'm glad you're meeting. One thing I want to talk about, Jesse, with our uh enforcement issue, um, and this has been going on for years, and I know it's something that I think as a council we need to kind of just bring up again. Uh, I just feel like, you know, I'm not singling out who does our enforcement. I'm just saying the job and the different polls of that job. I think we need to re imagine um it feels like that part of the job is being this part and the other part of the job. In other words, the fire part of what he does is this much and this part gets left behind. When I first started council, that was one of the first things I said is we need to have a better uh update on when there's a complaint, right? Okay, now you're in the system. There should be some kind of, you know, work process of, okay, it's been two weeks. Shoot an email to the person that complained. Hey, it's been two weeks. There's nothing going on. Hey, next week there, you know, people need to be communicated with or then they come out like this and then it's it's embarrassing for us and it keeps happening. This has been going on for way too long. So, I think what you need to do, this is me saying this and you guys can agree or not, but is you need to come back with us and say how we're going to fix this cuz it's been I've been doing this what, three years, whatever. >> Too long, four years, five years. >> You have three years. >> I wanted to budget and it's been the same. >> I wanted to budget in a part-time code enforcement person. >> Yeah. you know, because I understand that there's just not enough hours or days in the week for, you know, for what people's job descriptions are now where it's not, you know, personally a fault of their own. There's just not enough time. >> Yeah. >> You know, we're small officer has to have a certain personality who's not afraid to be the bad guy >> and time, too, you know, like >> and Yeah. And Andy is so swamped, you know, with the fire department. He's the most pleasant human being in the world. >> You know, >> if you got a couple hours each day, it's just not enough, >> right? I mean, I've talked to Jesse before. I mean, if we can come up with a better tracking mechanism, kind of like, you know, if you work in the business world, there's a system that tracks work orders. So, there's a process in place that would actually trigger, you know, once a week somebody would see, okay, we had 15 complaints two weeks ago. Have we done anything? Where are we? Let's follow up. You know, I don't know that I mean that I would call out Jesse as being the one to make sure that everything got taken care of, per se, when it's really Andy's or the position for the code enforcement officer's job to do it, but then Jesse's taking calls from citizens day in and day out, you know, and that's not really good. I don't want to say that's a bad use of his time, but I'm just saying we could probably manage the situation better with a process in place. Um the other thing or the other component to this which I think people are overlooking is our ordinances to a certain extent are somewhat loose just like the couple that came up earlier and said you know what does an excessive amount mean you know and we don't really lay out exactly what you know the amount of you know blight is acceptable and what are willing are we willing to accept we are very closely you know our lots are really tight in places I mean I know mine's not very wide side and so everything that my neighbor does impacts me, >> you know, so and if we're really going to be serious about cleaning up blight in our community, you know, we need some ordinances that are very definitive that we can actually enforce, such as I know we've had problems in the past with people parking 15 cars in their front yard. Well, the council the planning commission gave the council a a plan for three years ago on minimizing driveways and the council did not accept >> the planning commission's recommendation because people on council had four and five cars and they wanted to have their four and five cars. This has been their driveway. >> Well, I mean, I'm talking about cars in the driveway. I'm talking about cars in the yard. They're in the yard, too. They're in the yard. They're in there with the snowmobiles and with the fish houses and, you know, the boats and everything. >> You know, we live in a lake community. I mean, >> well, see, that's what everyone keeps saying the excuse, but you know what? You live in a lake community, then you you need to be able to afford to take care of your toys. >> Yeah. I mean, I would be happy if we restricted. I got a fish house in my front yard that I would love to leave. But um getting back to the position, I think one of the things that that we also have to recognize, we talked about this >> at the fire commission, and that is the fire department overwhelmingly gets a lot of emergency calls, which you know, people falling um >> wellness calls and things like that. And the police department evidently is referring a lot of calls to fire. So we've we did ask that fire and the police get together and talk about >> right >> better um >> coordination >> coordination in those calls. So that's taking up a lot of time. So it's you know everything is really multiple layers of of conflict and >> and and you know prioritizing and maybe what we do need to do is create another position. >> That may be the resolve. I I think what I would recommend for you, Jesse, is since you're our only employee, >> is that responsible for >> last year >> our enforcement position, right? I think we need to look at that and reimagine what that needs to look like going forward. >> It's not working. So, whatever we're doing now is not working. >> Yeah. >> What are we going to do to fix it? >> And I think look at other cities. is look, you know, I know this specific position and because of the fire, you know, multiple jobs, right? >> I get that. You know, you're going to if there's emergency, sorry, I'm not going to, you know, respond to your email. I'm going to go put out a fire. >> I get So, we have a we have a and I'm not saying anything about the person doing it at all. I I'm only saying the complaints and then people come here or people email me or call me and say I just can never get a response. I cannot get an email back. I cannot there's no communication >> and it's it's not good. It's not and it's falls well for me. I'm speaking for myself but it falls on us. Well, it it does call on us because they're calling us to get some reaction. And >> you know, Jesse and I have had the same conversation and how to fix this discourse between a complaint and um Jesse can't follow up with everything, but who within your layer of, you know, group, you know, maybe every Friday you look this list over and go, "Okay, these are two yearlong problems. We're gonna have Jesse always call this person and just give them a some feedback. Um Sarah maybe at the front can she she's aware of what the problem, you know, to your problems are. Maybe Sarah can be in charge of just once a week just following up with some of these long ongoing problems that we do end up looking like we're not doing what we and I don't want to I don't take on a problem without trying to find a solution for somebody. So when you tell me that, yep, somebody's going to follow up. I go, good, that's great. I know somebody's going to follow up. And then I get a call going, nobody followed up. You know, it just makes us look really inept, >> right? and and I I constantly always um praise our our staff because we have an amazing staff, but we are falling short in in feedback and and just communication with their residents who who deserve to just be followed up with even if they don't like what the comment is. Most people just want to get a call back, especially after five emails and phone calls and nobody has responded to them. I that would drive me insane. It's one of my biggest pet peeves. >> Yeah. It also goes to setting expectations. So if Sarah on the front desk is call taking these calls, you know, she'll say, "Okay, well, I'm going to turn it over to our, you know, enforcement person and they'll have to come take a look at it." You know, then that person is expecting someone to come out. So, we just stop the process right there. What's the next step? You know, and it's also some of these and I don't know if Sarah is equipped to even answer these type questions, but you know, some of them are going to become a legal issue, which obviously will slow the process down, which will take people longer to respond. So, if we know that it's something like that, if it's simple training, maybe we do a better job of saying, "Okay, Sarah, if somebody wants a building tore down, it's going to take a legal opinion. We'll have to get back to that person and let them know." This will take time. It's not something that's going to happen overnight. Why don't we set something on our 2026 priorities for >> We did. It's called good customer service for residents. >> Yeah, it is. >> But like that's not definable. >> But I think we've given the challenge to >> We could say like did we hit it? >> Let's let him let's let Jesse solve the problem. We've given him the challenge. >> But I don't want to say good customer service because then like you know I could say like well I think we checked that box and you could be like no we didn't. >> Yeah. Well Sarah's pleasant. Like my quick solution, I don't know that it's right, but I'd floated like the part-time code enforcement officer. I don't know if that's the best, but like, >> you know, I haven't done the homework to see what our neighboring similarly sized cities how they handle it. Or maybe they don't either. I don't know. But I don't know what the right answer is, but I think we'd all be willing to if it's a if it's budgeting a part-time position. I mean, I >> technically that's what we have. We have a part-time position. >> Very part-time. >> Okay. So then I think again I think back and say here's the solution guys and this is >> what we're going to do and maybe it's just >> we're going to follow a better response thing >> less than 30 hours a week >> split position >> if it was 29 is one person who works part time >> I think it sounds like we've all had a conversation with Jesse about our frustration with with protocol on this so why don't we let you come up with a solution present it to us and um hopefully it's going to be solve a lot of a lot of communication issues between residents and and our staff. >> We can also do a better job of leveraging technology which is another thing I think we've been short on. >> Yeah. >> In a lot of areas. >> Yeah. Without getting into I I had some comments earlier that I was going to share but I don't really want to get into complainant data in a public meeting. The other thing too is that's one thing we have to balance as well is every time we create a new spreadsheet and move data around, we're creating more data. >> And when when or if we set up something new, that's what we're going to caution is that if by doing this new process, we're creating hundreds of new documents. It's just making more of a backend data retention issue. So, and not to mention how some of that is classified as private, uh, you know, complaining data is private. We can't share that with people. So, I'm not going to disagree with anybody about how we get back to people or that there's better ways to communicate. I just want to caution that it's we're going to do our best to try to minimize the amount of new data we're creating. If if somebody sends an email that says, "Hey, my neighbor is doing X, Y, and Z." That's data. and if we move it around. So that's just where my head's going right away. It's not a comment on the actual uh facts of the >> So don't you think that when someone complains and then it's been a month and we've been on the same chain. I know we have. It's it's out there. >> And then they go, "What's the update on this?" And then I usually respond and copy you because they copied me on your or whatever. And then I say, "Jesse, what's the And then they do." Okay. Then a month later, what's the update again? Right. And a month later, what's it? Or two weeks later, right? And it's I don't know. I don't know. You've got to figure it out. But I I can't believe that other cities don't have some kind of process that's compliant that they can respond. >> I mean, in my work, if I did that to my clients every day, I wouldn't have clients. >> Yeah. Right. And that like >> these residents pay our taxes that that allow us all to sit here. >> Yeah. Could we just start with returning a phone call or an email? You know, when when a resident says, "I I've sent three emails and left two voicemails." Now, whether or not you're getting them, I don't know. But if Sarah's sending that person to your voicemail and you're not listening to voicemail, then let's not send them to your voicemail. let's find a better person to send that person to who who can actually respond to uh the the complaint and then to manage the resident's expectations. You know, there you can come up with, you know, every couple of weeks we'll try to deal with the two-yearong problems. every three weeks we'll deal with why is Dwayne 66 not being I mean you know you can come up with your we trust you to do that but I think for most of us the frustration is and for residents they just don't even get any response whatsoever in mo in many cases not in all cases >> I'd like to do what you said before maybe asking you know Jesse to look at neighboring cities and just find best practices for what works for them because we don't need to reinvent anything No, >> someone's doing something that works pretty good. We just need to >> Well, and he's the >> he's the CEO of our city. So, if if there's something if there's an issue with the person that's doing it or because he's getting pulled in different directions or whatever, we need to resolve that. >> If it's we need another person, we don't have that. He doesn't have time. >> That's what I kind of want. >> I don't I don't really care what the solution is. Like, we just got to fix the solution. >> I'm just mentally prepared for that, though. You know, I think I know everyone's busy and it's not like, you know, there's probably going to need to be someone else to handle that >> and that's fine if we have to re >> I'm ready for that. >> I know you you you're the one who mentioned a few months ago in our finance meeting that we wanted to take >> if we kept the levy higher to take that and and maybe take that. So, think outside the box on how we can fix this, but it's been going on a long time and we just can't keep doing it. So, um, beyond that, you're doing amazing >> and all you guys are doing amazing. Thank you. Again, it's just the >> We love our staff. >> Yeah, we do. >> This is just a little ding in the armor that just needs some attention. >> Yeah, it does. >> Uh, >> look at my >> Well, your first meeting, Leila, doesn't usually go that way. I don't think they are long, though. >> Um, welcome. Sure. >> Um, does staff uh have any uh anything you want to talk about? Number 10, >> uh, Turkey Bingo next Tuesday. >> Cool. Okay. >> Uh, right up right up the street here. Mountain Fire Auxiliary. >> Oh, nice. >> I didn't know that was going. Okay. >> Um, we got all the other A through D. Is anything else you want to talk about? >> All right. >> I didn't know we >> Did I say something? >> Uh, no. We're done with We can talk after, but we're done with public comment. Sorry. >> Uh number 11, we're going to adjourn. Can I get a motion to adjurnn? >> So moved. >> Any uh second? >> Second. >> Any other discussion? >> All those in favor, please say I. I. Those opposed. All right, we're journ.