June 3rd Town board meeting to order first item on the agenda is the approval of the agenda understand we have we have M Mr chair we have four additions and one point of clarification added with your supplemental information we'd like to add under consent 5D Ramsey Washington Suburban cable commission 2018 financial report uh added agenda item 9A uh sprinkling regulation change requests 9B uh request for tent use within the township uh then I've got an other uh just a water Gremlin update that I'd like to provide the board uh we can do that last what 9C that's do 9C and then uh just point of clarification under revised consent agenda item 5A to read as follows we've in your packet you have the information for this but is not noted on your revised consent agenda 5A should also have point4 for Benson airport as part of the archery deer hunt in 2019 got that Scott I do okay that it pat yes sir all right hearing that do I have a motion to amend the agenda or to approve it as amended I will move the to approve the agenda as amended have a second second all in favor say I I I all opposed that motion carries item number three is approval of payment of the bills so moved second all in favor say I I I I all opposed that motion carries item number four I need approval of the minutes from the May 20th 2019 Town board meeting any changes additions bations I saw none move to approve I'll second that all in favor say I I I all opposed all right item number five consent agenda Scott you want to do that for us okay item 5A 2019 archery deer hunt approve the 2019 Ramsey County cooperative deer management implementation program in the following areas of white bir Township one tamarak Nature Center on October 28th through the 30th and November 18th through the 20th item two Otter Lake Regional Park on October 11th through the 13th and November 1st through the 3rd item three pop Lake County Park on October 11th through the 13th and November 1st through the 3rd and item four Benson airport on October 11th through the 13th and November 1st through the 3rd item 5B moing requests in accordance with the Portland Avenue moing fees policy approved the Ming request for the 2019 boating season June 1st 2019 through October 1st 2019 for 5373 and 546 Portland Avenue item 5 C fourth quarter financial report receive and item 5D the Ramsey County Suburban cable commission 2018 financial report based on the finance officer review and recommendation receive and accept the Ramsey Washington Suburban cable commission's 2018 annual financial report did I get all of it you sure did okay I will look for I'm uh um proposing all these submitting all these for approval second a motion I'll second that motions made in seconded all in favor say I I I all opposed that motion carries number six we have old business we have none so we'll move on to item seven our first public hearing is a conditional use permit request this is Three Oaks of White Bear Township to allow a modification of landscape plan uh this is a public hearing so I'll need a motion to wave the readings noting it's been properly published so moved second all in favor say I I I I all opposed and then I need a motion to open the public hearing so moved second all favor say I I I I right Tom all yours okay part of the Three Oaks development off of Centerville Road north of County Road H2 that was approved by the town uh in 2018 they have come to us with a request to modify the Landscaping plan that was approved and that's shown on the screen here primarily they would like to have some modifications to the southerly portion of the property along the border here North Oaks company has been working with the property owners in here to modify the Landscaping plan and they' come up with a proposal um there were some existing trees in this area that were planned to be saved as well as in this area here these have all been removed and this is a newly proposed Landscaping plan extends down the property line right here and then this was a Grove of oak trees um that had more had planned to be saved but uh uh many of them were removed uh due to a grade pretty steep grade change there so this uh project was approve received Town approval of a conditional use permit again last year they are looking at a modification to the Landscaping plan which requires approval of a new conditional use permit um this was reviewed by the Planning Commission at their meeting uh in May and the conditional from it was recommended for approval as shown here I'm off hand you know the the number changed from the original plan to how many trees are now on this plan quantity I don't have Gary do you have that well we'll get to him in a second Steve you got any other questions of Tom well it's not necessarily if I guess it is of Tom um you know the Landscaping obviously what is left of existing trees the South Side the South border nothing okay so we don't have to worry about them dying then uh so we're we're we're losing I guess my my question Tom is uh what's the what's the time frame of this of a landscaping PL like this what what what are what have referenced me in time how long they get to do this I'm looking for viability I I don't want to start Landscaping project and then and then not you know that's the end of it and there's it's not living up to the bargain because it is an awful awful open area to the South so um what's the contingencies can we talk about you know I don't know if we proved an actual time frame but this portion of it I would anticipate to be constructed as soon as possible now that it's ready to go additional Landscaping comes when the individual units are built so there's a Landscaping plan for the individual units but this is a buffer plan along here so this can be planted at any time so to the to the East End that's that's buffer Landscaping it's yeah it's a buffer between these the new property or new development here and the existing properties south of there and then there's a retaining wall in in the there was a retaining wall in the original plan that has been taken out so this was a location of their retaining wall right here so okay according to Gary it was moved to the West although it's not shown on this so there is going to be right here so it this is the area of the retaining wall along here and this is where there's a fairly steep drop off between this property and the three property we'll get you in a second CH SC you got anything of no okay I'll think about Larry you want to come up and give us your uh take on this this change before I open up to the [Applause] [Music] public North Oaks company the developer of the Three Oaks project uh um the original intent was to screen all the properties to the South with existing trees to the east and west uh end of the properties meeting with the easterly property owner trees on our property were diseased uh so we made a decision to remove all those trees and then replace them with the new buffer landscape plant the trees to the West were intended to save as many Oaks as we could with the size of the units that the builders proposed that was going to be very difficult we've made an attempt to screen what we could with the boulder wall in place and we'll see what oak trees we can save if they can't be saved we'll replace them as part of the landscape plan the new landscape plan most of the underbrush is Buckthorn which I think would be desirable to move and replace we hope to have all that done by Fall do you know if with those oak trees uh was the drip line Disturbed with that so you the odds of them surviving if they don't survive we'll take them down and replace with as big we can and then you have any other Landscaping plan at the at the bottom end of the of the retaining wall that would be on the individual Lots okay well I when you say on the individual Lots so that's who who's whose responsibility this will be an association so those Replacements and maintenance of those uh plantings would be for the association to manage it'll be part of their budget so if they choose nothing there's nothing well they still have to adhere to the landscape plant sir that no all right thanks Larry all right any other question to Tom all right hearing none I would look for a motion to open this up for public comment open move to open for a public comment I'll second that motion's Maiden seconded all in favor say I I I I I know we have some neighbors here if you want to make a comment to this please come up to the podium state your name and your address Jake Walton 5440 Centerville Road um I'm immediately next to that uh the Westerly three lots um I don't feel a lot of care was taken in saving those oak trees they're very mature trees they've been there for years and Mr Eagles just stated that he was out of town when it happened so um you know that's pretty easy to say um I just wish a little little more care would have been taken to to preserve those mature trees and I and I don't feel North Oaks did their due diligence to make sure that happened so now they're proposing just to take them down and replace them with I'm sure much smaller trees I don't think we'll ever see Oaks of that size there again um I'd like to see them it's only three that are left but but now Jake those Oaks are on North Oaks company property though correct absolutely okay but but in in the original plan they called for them to stay at for the original conditional use permit right yep in that in that plan they were they were proposed to stay and I understand it is on their property and and they can do with their property what they will but they um it was a conditional use permit right so so that's what we're here talking about and I just feel like they they should have have given that a little bit more thought you know they went in and wiped it all out and then they came back and wiped some more out I just happened to stop home that day when they were taking the rest of the trees down and exposing the roots and cutting out some more for the retaining wall so it wasn't like they did it upon their original excavation just feels kind of sneaky and underhanded so well I know you've met out there a couple times with with Gary have you talked about any other matur trees being planted or the plan is to wait to see if those'll survive well his their original concern was to take those trees down just just so there's no just take it down now and and put back in something as big as they can well I feel that you know the the trees deserve a chance you know see if see if they'll live I mean it's only three Oaks I I my my concern is that they do they do die and then they're not going to be able to get back in there with the other plantings to replace them I think that's something we can add to their conditional use permit to make sure that at least stand behind but what I'm getting is are you comfortable with them doing anything else I'd like to see it stretched further to the east you see there's nothing behind that third house that's wide open lot three yeah it just stop they they it just stops there I'm not sure why cuz they're used to be you know that was all sumax and brush so I mean there's no screening there I'd like to see that carried to the to the east You Know cover the back of that lot as well I don't know it's just a huge change from what was there my property value went up $40,000 this year and we lost all those mature trees I'm not quite sure how that works thought it mine I know full disclosure I'm also a neighbor here so great I won't be voting on this so I just I I think it'd be nice to see North Oaks held um accountable and and you know give us some give us some decent buffer there give us some decent trees that's where we're used to so Mr chair after we hear the residents can Gary come up and see if he can address any of these yeah just back Jake do you do you have a an idea or a plan of mine what you'd like to see I'd like to see those Three Oaks given a chance but I mean anything over and above that as supplementary trees for now I'd like to see that solid trees all the way across there you know what I know I know leaving the Three Oaks is tricky because then any trees you put in there are going to have to be like underbrush to them or you'll lose them when you go to take the other ones out right so it it kind of puts us in a bad spot you know do you go ahead and just take them down and then put in as large of trees as they can I guess i' I'd like to know what that looks like um um the pictures that that Gary's presented us are from the north side from the North Oak Side which really doesn't do its Justice from our side you know I I I think any of the trees we could get planted up on the high side of that Hill would be beneficial to both properties you know the houses on the on the North and my property our property I just we're accustomed to having that those big Oaks there for so many years and it just kind of it's seeing them go I mean I don't they don't grow overnight so I I think they call it Three Oaks cuz there's only three left on that entire property well there's the three on the other end down by the that's the three I'm talking about so um I don't think I don't think they had much regard for the should we call it six Oaks maybe I I don't know but but I'd like to see it stretch further um to the east to buffer that that other lot as well the third lot and I understand what he's saying about the Buckthorn I I agree with that that's all under brush scrub brush but those big Oaks they deserve a chance they should have been given more respect when they went in there and did their Excavating unfortunately we've seen this happen before in the township uh The Cottages was a prime example we lost some big mature trees that they're supposed to go around and they just went right down the middle so yeah I know it's so the guy running the whole the guy running the machine isn't accountable right not really like I said it's their trees so if they Ru who should be accountable in that case all we can do is have the developer make make up for what's inconvenience you guys have suff that's all I'd like to see happen okay thank you hi I'm uh Leaf eishen 5451 Peterson Road I'm the property adjacent to the southeast corner of the development um I I have two concerns um I see there are little Flags in the ground where I'm told there will be trees but we're already getting pretty far into the planting season so are there any assurances that when they put in the trees in the heat of July or whenever they get there um that if they die they'll be replaced so I'm assuming there's going to be high stress for these new especially the deciduous trees which have already leafed out the Evergreens I understand not so much um so that's that's my major concern is I see some potential trees not not living and do we have any assurances that they'll be replaced Tom do state in the conditional use permit that they're required to uh I don't know if it gives a time length on how long they have to uh make sure the trees survive yeah they're they're supposed to be maintained by the Association to Eternity they die they need to be replaced my assumption yeah well I happen to speak to the uh the guy that was out there looking to put the flags in and plant the trees and I know he's a little concerned that it's gotten late in the season too but take her chances this obviously didn't help having this thing get pushed back cuz that was kind of critical timing and with the ground being so wet that I understand we've had wet spring and all I just wanted to voice my that that concern my other concern is we were assured there would be no construction traffic on our tiny little gravel road well I I've documented plenty especially last Friday there was four big triple axle trucks that came down all trying to turn turn around I made sure one of them did not turn around and crack my concrete driveway uh I know one of them did mess up EDS driveway pretty bad yeah it used to be all concrete now it's all dirt they really so uh I don't know there's a great big orange sign that says no construction traffic so I I don't understand what else we can do I yelled plenty at that cement truck driver but they're just I know thank you voicing my concerns all right anyone else any speak your piece and run uh Denny Peterson 5474 Peterson run all I can't remember everything I wish one thing we should do off what we're talking about we got to get a speaker system in here I got hearing a I ain't hearing nothing but okay I thought North Oak said they were going to plant hundreds of trees I thought on that South Side because they had access to a nursery of some sort of their own Nursery now I'm getting old I might not caught all that but I thought there was going to be tons of trees there actually there's probably along Peterson Road right now I think they planted 10 pine trees I didn't even ask for pine trees I'm getting pine trees now Jake could probably use pine trees but I mean I know North fses got money and they got trees so uh it's a good development I'm I mean I've lived here a long time so I know someday I would go this way but they're doing a good job but I think you probably could take care of the people on the south side and give them some trees like cuz I'm thinking all that Dead Space there on Tommy on that other one that was going to be all trees to my knowledge yep good portion of it and now it's uh wide open so I would think even if you put it on like on Leaf if you put it on people that already Liv there if you planted trees on their property they'd probably be letting you do that and be happy with it but um what else L of them up here uh so is there anything plan for I suppose they can't plan anything by the swamp area is that going to be untouchable or is that that's that's really wet down there but I I had your same concern because maybe I just heard something different but I I even put Gary on the spot and asked him the original plan showed 54 trees that didn't count shrubs I don't believe but it was 54 trees and I thought it was a lot more than that too so that's why I'm curious to see with all these changes what that count went up to right right cuz I I'm pretty sure when him and his partner were talking about they were talking about trees up and down that whole southide so that's all I got right thank you all right anyone else going once going twice all right ask for a motion to close the public portion have Gary talk oh yeah we can do that well maybe just in case yeah Gary you got I just got a couple questions for you if you want to come back up talking about the number did you actually uh take a new count of what you were going to after this plan changed the types of landscaping the original Landscaping was mostly higher trees we went to more of a layered so we have a shrubs along with the higher deciduous and canorous trees but that's long so the number is more but but different types but that's more long Leafs area um pretty much both ends it's hard to tell especially for my view it it looks like it's got a little sparse there I know when we walked it I when you look at the Topography of what's there in the middle it's a high burm and higher trees to the South these units will sit below that BM so any screening trees I would able to do would wouldn't really affect anything they'd be too low okay so that's why we decided once the grading was done it became obvious that any screening trees in the middle weren't going to serve any purpose there will be trees and individual Lots but those are going to be at an elevation probably 7 8 ft below what the top of that fence line is to the South but I'm still confused are you saying the tree count stayed the same just the lower shrubs count went up we didn't have any shrubs on the first plant okay we just had ornamental trees and deciduous all right so the we're going to try and save the three oak trees by Jake that's our goal if they don't make it we'll place them whatever we can that would be significant as we can fit in there well one of the other suggestions that he had was a little further to the east is that possible that's where it starts to that's where the slope enters in and don't we'll get it as far over as we can we're willing to work with the neighbors that's that's the whole commitment here is once the units are built it's a lot easier to see what is the more beneficial screening now we've got a unit built on the west end so it's pretty good now to see what the visual impacts will be but are you going to have a problem once the units are in there to get back there for bigger trees well that's that is the issue with trying to save those big Oaks if we do plant around them it's going to restrict what we can get in and out of there so I know even now it's awful wet back there well we're pretty high and dry no I'm talking about along me or or leaves just for planting it trees cuz it it's a it's muddy it's it's going to be workable and what gets planted this spring versus what gets planted fall just on what the condition of the trees are will be the determining Factor when we finish I'd like to get it all done as soon as possible but there comes a point in time when it's going to be stressful for the plantings and they probably wouldn't make it anyway so what uh have a one-year warranty from the provider from all trees and like I said the homeowners association will be responsible for long-term maintenance well that makes me nervous they come and go yes I was going to say that makes me nervous also because they come and they go just as he said well we're going to fund them fairly substantially to start with well that that's where I was going is a a year is not is not that long for for having any type of screening I I I just want to make sure we' got some money set aside this is not going to fall in a hole and have nothing there but dead Shrubbery and dead trees were we willing to bond the oneye warranty can you give me a just kind of a a status on I I saw there are two lots sold on the culac yes the one right next to me is sold I believe yes uh what about the new one they got the foundation in right next to Peterson Road that's sold sold yes so you've got what uh four sold in there then yes uh so we plus the two models at six you're six out of 20 8 three more are scheduled to start fairly soon all right I'm just kind of curious to see how this if this is going to be if it's going to go as well as the Pine Tree one did so oh I anticipate it will all right any other questions Gary no no thank all right thank you all right last chance any other comments all right motion to close the public portion some moved second favor say I I I opposed all right Tom under that uh conditional use permit I don't have the here I don't think it's in here is it do we have the actual landscape wording well you would be adopting a plan and a plan date so the Landscaping plan that they had proposed is dated 51419 and that's the plan I showed on the overhead well that one I according to my looks like it's 42 trees and uh probably 70 smaller trees shrubs that's all about right showing 40 two yep trees remainers are shrubs yeah 66 shrubs it looks like and 42 trees again I'm thought the last one was 54 somehow it seems like we've lost trees here 12 of them to be exact you don't have that original one do you I do yep uh 22 36 yeah 58 on the original plan with no shrubs well me personally I would like to see that 58 stay in place with the shrubs that's up of you I'm I'm going with more trees to person I I think that that's a great accommodation I I understand the retaining wall piece and I don't know if the residents are that Keen over it but it makes sense if it's a high wall already the trees aren't going to help much so but is you're looking down but I think the idea here is that they're going to try and save save the Oaks although I think it's suspicious but they're damaged but I'm all for saving mature oak trees cut down trunk the problem with and that that is I'm sure is a true statement and that damage is done um so we've got to figure out what's the best solution going forward uh the issue as I see it is if they go if either if they if they're not going to make it and he put more trees in front of it you're going to have access issues just as they've said um Gary have I'll ask has there been any arborous looked at those trees yes certified arborus and what what is the condition that they've told you is it viability of what think we should give a chance okay so the certified arborus says worth a chance well having said that I still think we should plant as many trees on there as originally proposed if possible and the other question that I has I know you said it's one year guarantee on plants and shrubs but and and you say you're going to have some I guess I'd like to see what in or have it put in writing something so we know we have some assurances that this stuff is going to actually happen because our luck with homeowners associations are sketchy follow through can I ask a question of Tom was that on original Bond I don't believe trees were covered under that no so we would add a new Bond to cover that we're fine with that me all right so keeping the original tree count of 58 plus all the added shrubs does that I I think then that gives them some flexibility for the neighbors too if it looks like we can add supplement some of those extra trees got you fine Mr chair I think you also have to add a clause amending the bond to include preser true preservation a warranty yeah I think that's what Gary just said so yeah yeah but that's not part of the development agreement you need to add that to your resolution all right to amend the bond to add to the bond uh the tree warranty maybe you want to go beyond one year too well I I I personally think you working with the tree trust and they're they're doing multiple years three years three yep three years um which I think is is about what's should be acceptable Gary personally we can so we don't lose ground I I like to see a longer warranty I don't know what are you formulating motion I am but I've got to see I'd like to see three years one year plus the two two more for plants and shrubs trees and shrubs and I'll make a motion to um how about I get back to what we actually have to say are we all done then so y based on well I guess it's based on the Planning Commission staff revie and recommendations approve the conditional use permit and Zoning certificate and requirements for Three Oaks of Whitebear Township to allow modifications of the Landscaping plan to add uh to the the bond the uh tree and shrub uh warranty of an additional two years and adding a total of back to the original 58 trees plus the shrubs is that that cover it I think I said a lot I'll second that all right motions made but second and all favor say I I I uh let the record note I will abstain as a affected property owner all right thanks folks all right moving on we have item number 7B uh sidey yard setback variance request for 2630 Southshore [Applause] Boulevard okay uh this is also a public hearing so I guess I'm going to need a motion to weigh the reading I'll make a motion to wave the that it was properly published and wave the reading I'll second that motion made in seconded all in favor say I I I all opposed all right motion to open the public hearing so moved second all fa I I all right Tom okay property on the south side of White Bear Lake South side of the township uh this is Southshore Boulevard right here Forest Court and this is the property in question right here 2630 Southshore Boulevard it's a request for a couple of variances to construct a new garage see in this aerial photo this is a single car garage that was tucked back into the southwest corner of the uh property here that garage has been removed and the property owner would like to uh construct a new 24x 24 garage requiring several variances originally the request was for a 10t side yard setback variance from the south side that would bring a new garage and driveway right up to the property line again the original request was a 5.2t side yard setback variance on this side which would allow for a 1T sidey yard setback and then an overall green area variance of of 5% was requested during uh uh review well the town requirements for corner lot 35 ft from a rideway two rideways in this case here both Forest Court Southshore Boulevard and then 10-ft side setbacks for a normal corner lck from each side and rear but they're both called sides in this case it's an undersized lot of record so the sidey yard setback along this side drops from a 10t requirement to a 6.19 foot side setback require requirement and that's based on the uh again the size or the width of the lot when the variance board reviewed this they recommended approval of variances they recommended approval of a 7ot side yard setback variance on the south side that would push the garage 3 feet from the south line as well as the driveway a 3.19 ft side yard setback variance on the west side that would leave it with a 3ft sidey yard setback and then also recommended approval of a 5% green area variance as requested uh 30% is the uh maximum coverage permitted by the town uh 35% is proposed so that's a 5 foot variance Planning Commission reviewed this uh in may they also recommended approval of a 7ft sidey yard setback variants uh but requested a 5ot setback for the garage and then a 3ot setback for the driveway on the uh West Side they recommended of approval of a 3.19 ft side yard setback variance same as the variance board and then the Planning Commission also recommended approval of the green area variants 5% as requested so this is is uh laid out showing uh the recommendations of the Planning Commission so 3ft side setback 5ot side setback driveway tapering down to 3ft right here location of the garage as proposed you can see it's over a portion of the new the former garage but it is set back further from the lot lines than originally uh the original garage so the variance is recommended for approval by the VAR and Planning Commission as modified Tom because this lot is under sized was that green space calculated into that it doesn't make a difference it's doesn't overall yeah 35% maximum coverage or 30% maximum coverage for this property you run into that with the undersized lots of record uh the green area variances are more common with those Scott I don't know where to start with it just a lot of numbers um I'm just going to keep listening well it's always been Town policy to allow certain amount of variances to get people two stall garages I mean we try to these single stalls and small garages they can't get all their stuff in them so obviously the the township looks better when you had a little bit bigger garage with stuff put away so we we we've been pretty flexible in that but it seems like we just constantly battle this I these these get excessive after a while and our uh our variances have been a lot lately so I I know we have to scrutinize as much as we can so if I understand it right it's a it's a larger structure but it's moving further away from the line from the property line corre is that correct yes and that does decrease obviously the the discrepancy on the the requirement for the variance anyway but so it's still a variance but it's not as bad of a variance correct yeah we always battle with the the the term uh reasonable use of the property because if you have a garage that's reasonable use you can use your garage but like I said we we've always been pretty much proactive to try to get these small garages and ones that are in need of repair replaced with a two-stall garage so I get that point I I don't know how hard you guys worked with the Varan board or the Planning Commission if this is absolutely the best they can do with it I mean I know you you folks look at it a lot deeper than we do so yeah it was the location was shifted around a little bit one of the primary reasons why they're shoving it as far south as possible is the power pole right here you're right at the end of the driveway so trying to avoid the power pole with the driveway no were you at this plan I was at that planet and and that was the big consideration is trying to give them some access not have the power pole sitting right on top of what they need for driveways but um I think it's the best solution for the there was a comment that you had made earlier about and I I kind of lost track of which commission it was one had approved it for a certain number of feed another commission suggested a different number of F feet I heard 2 feet and then 5T and then another one agreed so what's the overall recommendation to the board from the from the Planning Commission basically it's the same plan the only change was the garage the recommended setback by the Planning Commission was shifted 2 feet further towards the house but allowing for the driveway to be a a 3-foot setback yeah so it's a 7ot side setback for the driveway but a 5-ft setback for the garage what what does that put for the distance between the garage and the house H they don't see that Dimension well I I do know you have to be at least 6 ft otherwise you have to fire rate the garage oh yeah it'll be more than 6 feet all right any other questions of Tom we'll get you just in a second that's okay okay you got anything else Tom Steve no all right I'll will look for a motion to open up the public comment portion so moved second all in favor say I I I now if you're the applicant you can come on up sorry we have all these we have all these legal things we got to do um okay just state your name and address my name is Marilyn spay and I live at 2630 Southshore Boulevard white pair Township and I am just trying to put this garage up and um actually I'm not sure this going to be popular but when I look at this if if you I don't know if you can see it as well but there is that green space is that what they call that town between my garage and George okay so the driveway is going in three but but the garage is over five so the driveway is going to come in come up and I'm going to have like couple feet on the south side of my garage this is going to be just nothing he has two feet between his my property line and his driveway so we've got 7 feet of Green Space right there and we're going to have to take care of that somehow I'm not sure what we can plant there because you have to be a foot and a half from each other's property line to plant anything so my suggestion is as long as the driveway is coming up 3 ft in why couldn't the garage just be 3 ft and the driveway goes straight in the other concern was safety and getting fire trucks through or any kind of medical emergency where I have that key there that's an empty lot and so anybody could come in there drive in there's no issue you can come straight up from Southshore the home we we'll call it George's home uh next to me would be the one that would be at risk and you can come straight up from Southshore to his home as well so I don't think we're cramming it in where we can't get um any kind of emergency vehicles through there the concern with the electrical pole is in the winter there are like say one two three five driveways three across from me and everybody is plowing snow it's four it's a very narrow like one of our narrow roads that we all have and it gets really tight and is so I think if I can fan it out at the end I'm told but once I get in I think it would it would be aesthetically I think better looking but I also think it would be easier to get in to just get into the garage if you're just going straight in that make sense would you like to see one of these you guys these okay and maybe I'm not hitting what your concerns are but I just wanted to explain that all right thank you okay should I what you're most comfortable with oh all right is there anyone else would like to comment on this proposal all right hearing none I look for a motion to close the public portion so moved I'll second that fa say I I I all right Tom anything to add Steve got any other questions they only so just so I was clear what the Planning Commission and you discussed is exactly what you were just telling us here or did I miss something no I'm moving it a little bit there's 5T the garage only the driveway is already at 3 ft at the from my property line got it the garage is 5 ft which means the driveway is going to come up and it's going to have the curve to go in um because it the garage is over 5T George's driveway um from his my property line to his driveway is 2 feet so if my garage is over 5 ft now we're at 7 ft for Green's face is what I'm saying and since the driveway's already been approved by one board um I'm wondering if the garage could be moved over 2 ft so that I could drive directly into my garage instead of having to come in and Cur in and it's a small area so this is this wasted land I believe that's where the various Board of the Planning Commission are at odds I thought about this after the meeting I'm sorry but there would still be four feet of Green Space all the way now so Tom right now the request is uh 7 foot gr so that's 5T out the building 3 feet yeah 7 foot variance is what the variance board recommended for both the driveway and the garage the difference is the Planning Commission recommended Shifting the garage 2 feet further from the lot line uh for a yeah uh 5 foot garage variant right now I'm still all right everybody confused okay sorry Planning Commission recommended a 7ot side setback for the driveway 5 ft for the garage okay that's that's what I'm going with okay the difference from the variance Board review is the variance board recommended a uh uh 5 foot setback for both the garage and the driveway yeah so making those 2 3 ft from the lot line is that 5 ft driveway is going to be paved yes well as a board I tend to obviously take our commissioners and our their recommendations quite seriously so I Steve what what was your impression when they were going through this I I think they were trying to make this this work and I they thought they had some agreement but obviously after the fact yeah and I mean I just I started thinking about it and I was trying to see the reasoning behind moving the garage in 5 ft but having the driveway only three that after you know you're sitting in a meeting and you're thinking okay and then you start thinking about that so what is the purpose of that only because we View a building as a permanent structure where the driveway can be moved if need be yeah and my neighbors are not here they were all in agreement as to a one foot being one foot from the property so I just thought I'd asked because I was trying to figure out why that would be set up I should there still may be some discussion as to where the structure actually is going to be and so maybe that has to go back to because I'm hearing two different things from different commissions and the and the property owner well the board the board has the right to to do what they want but but that kind of kind of usurps what the Planning Commission really planned to do okay and reluctantly I don't want to do that I we have them for a purpose um so you're saying you are going to make a motion siding with the Planning Commission yes okay perfect that's what I want to hear something yeah I I'll move well B this thing says based on the variance board what am I looking at 10 Planning Commission oh it doesn't say oh no I must be on the supplement I'm on the wrong well anyway based on the variance board Planning Commission and staff review and recommendation approved the 7 foot and 3.19 side yard setback variants to allow construction of a garage and driveway has laid out a motion been made do I have a second I'll second that all in favor say I I I all opposed all right you got what the Planning Commission recommended if you want to change that you're going to have to come back to us go back to them right yep yeah all right thank you Mr chair there was also a request for a 5% green area variance no I didn't see that and I'll amend my motion for the 5% Green Space variance that I guess planner is noted still okay with the second there I'll second that all right it's yeah all right moving on uh let's see we got going in item eight new business we had Kent Jefferson 514 something West Avenue request for minor subdivision okay this is a uh property located in the bald eagle neighborhood okay we have Still Water Street up here Ridgewood here Ridgewood Ridgeway uh and Mr Jefferson owns this property right here actually back in 2003 he requested approval of a minor subdivision that would split this lot in two and also split off a chunk of the lot back here which was sold to this property at 5154 squaring up this line here originally it was taped like this so the town approved that in 2003 that uh transaction took place but Mr Jefferson never got to filing the subdivision here of this lot which created 275 foot wide Lots uh lots that are square footage of of just over 20,000 Square ft each Town zoning requirements say minimum lot size 12,000 Square ft of area minimum lot width 80 ft for a uh a new lot today this total the size of this particular lot is 150 ft wide by 269 ft deep and the proposal is to split it right down the middle um it requires two 5 foot lot width variances again because the lots are proposed to be 75 ft in width whereas the standard is 80 ft wide but the Lots as proposed far exceed the 12,000 Square ft uh requirements and again this was approved by the town board in 2003 it just never filed so has to go through the uh subdivision process again because that approval would had uh lapsed back then so when this was approved it was approved to uh subject to a number of uh requirements by the town provision of 10-ft drainage and utility easements around the lot lines uh requirement that they add a 5 foot access easan and that is for the property to the north can see the driveway encroaches onto the property a little bit here still the case as it was in 2003 so an easement was recommended at that time uh for Access for that property owner over this property payment of par dedication fees and then especially uh no additional variances would be approved by the town board for any new homes so because it's an undersized lot the home will have to be designed accordingly it's important to note that this lot was assessed for two assessments uh back when utilities came through uh and that was another reason why the town supported the uh uh subdivision back in ' 03 several residents in attendance at the variant or the Planning Commission meeting most of their concerns were relative to drainage in the area this is an area that does not have Municipal storm sewer everything sheet flows either to the South uh towards the river tracks or further north here sou to the north towards Bald Eagle Lake it's pointed out also during the review process by the property owner to the rear that there's an existing fence and shed that's encroaching onto the Jefferson property there and is aware of that and is willing to offer uh easements for that particular uh property owner to keep those there so again review by the V uh Planning Commission and the variance board because of the lot width variances both recommended approval uh subject to the same conditions of 2003 uh submission of the 10t or inclusion of 10ft drainage utility easements the 5 foot access easement for 5157 West Avenue payment of Park fee for subdivision and uh no additional variances for any new homes Tom did you uh or actually Dale do you are you familiar with that area yeah I mean it the drainage there with two new houses put in there is that going to be an issue there there is pretty flat so we don't have much for sto we don't have any storm in that area to connect to it's to be a challenge yeah I did suggest the Tom they look at some alternatives for maybe some onsite storage or is there a room there for it I don't know that's I don't know exactly if there if there is I was just looking at Google Earth view here L you know anything about that area I don't I hate to see this get split up and a couple homes put in there and we're going to create some problems this may have to be uh studied a little bit before they the designs and the placement of the homes and we would recommend a grading plan as part of this proposal and there's an opportunity for rain Gardens here if that seems to be fitting that's a good option to take care of uh some drainage concerns at least hold it till it overflows the applicant here yeah you have anything to add um not much from my name Jefferson um couple things I want the the gentleman that was most concerned about the drainage was over on Ridgewood going east I think what three houses down apparently they have a pretty good problem down there because it drains through between lots and going back towards the railroad tracks um on here you got a couple things one is the lots are big they're 20,000 sare ft I don't think like we talked about with a couple people there you're not going to obviously increase the drainage the portion where there's hard service might be a little quicker and most of that's going to go to West Avenue uh with the size of the Lots there's more room to be able to deal with drainage um we didn't talk about this I was talking about it with the neighbors one thing here is the houses on both sides are back quite a ways they're probably at 50 70 foot setbacks and normally I I would assume the township it's 35 ft or in line correct so if we're going that far back from the street versus being 30 35 ft that also gives area to help in drainage I don't foresee uh because there's such a big area they had some problems on the West Side off a mead Road this summer um or last winter the 5137 something happened to his well and was pumping out an enormous amount of water so she got flooded out and back a little bit none of it got to the houses but that was just free flowing with you know no control over it so with the size of the lots and uh it going to West Avenue I I I think we can adjust to that what kind of soil is out there do you know you know I think it's just clay sand I don't think it's it's you know uh it's not terrible it's not clear sand so he just mentioned a well isn't there sewer water out there time yeah I don't know he he actually wasn't sure if he if he ever was hooked up to city water he has city sewer but he's still running on a well and um and he's the gentleman to Stanton the one on 5137 he's about 35 ft from the lot so his house is is quite a bit South um you know if we were sque you know trying to squeeze into a little lot like North Oaks is trying to do and you're going to might have problems but with this much area in there um and like I said being set back from the street I I wouldn't foresee any problems there's some topography on there and he shot enough so we can come up with a good drainage plan um so that that's most i' I've talked to a number of the neighbors you know every everybody seems to be okay um you know you got the opposite problem these guys everybody want to save the trees over here I got neighbors saying well take that one down it's going to fall in my house and take these old ones out so um it's all in what you're working around but we'd keep a certainly the back end of the Lots keep those in a natural state so there's some privacy in there um all right appreciate it thank you you got any questions no thanks sir okay any other questions of Tom that you okay all right uh looking for a motion to Grant the uh lot minor subdivision I'll make that motion based on the variance board Planning Commission and staff review and recommendation approve the minor subdivision with two 5- foot lot with variances I'll second that motion made in seconding all in favor say I hi I I'll oppos all right motion carries moving on uh 8B rich and Kim Lucio 5691 Orchard Avenue request for a uh another variance going to squeeze a lot into the township these days yeah okay 5691 Orchard balal Lake here obviously uh Orchard Avenue in this area right here uh bald eagle open space owned by Ramsey County is over here and Luc seals would like to uh add a Lakeside pool between their home and Bald Eagle Lake it's a proposed to be a 14t wide by 28 ft long pool that's 300 92 Square ft they're requesting approval of a 10.4% green area variance and a 142 square foot Lakeshore accessory structure size variance lak Shore properties the maximum coverage permitted is 25% for Lakeshore properties they're proposing to exceed that by 10.4% in addition the town permits a uh one Lakeshore accessory structure this is consistent with DNR Shoreland management requirements that lak Shore accessory structure needs to be set back 10 ft from the lake um they're proposing to exceed that lak Shore accessory structure size with the pool uh 392 Square ft so the difference is 142t variants currently the existing coverage on the lot is 46.9% so in a couple of phases what lucios are planning to do is to eliminate a lot of that hard surface and trade it for permeable pavers you can see the driveway accessing the garage this is on the street side the sidewalk proposed to be replaced all the area around the pool proposed to be permeable pavers existing fire pit is proposed to be removed or there's a patio back there it's proposed to be removed that is hard surface also uh with the changes again 46.9% now changing everything to pavers which we don't consider a permanent or per we still consider that a permeable surface the coverage would be 35.4% so that's uh the 10.4% variance request ested for green area and then the other request for variance would be the 142 ft lak access restructure uh variance again for just the pool itself so reviewed by the variance board and Planning Commission and both of those variances were recommended for approval um is this President setting have we ever allowed that large of a variance over a Lakes show accessory I'm afraid doing this are we going to have boat houses this big boat houses are permitted up to 250 ft in area um yes we had one other one up on baligal point was actually a larger pool but it was a larger property too but that one did set the precedent he what you got I love fools wow oh no I I listened to this at the Planning Commission so that and they you feel I guess you listened to all the conversations there and and all the back and forth yes um they were pretty much unanimous except for one person who was philosophically against pools pools by the lake or just Pools by the lake was there a Reason by the lake doesn't like Lake wol it's by by the lake there you go I don't know she didn't say so leaving the philosoph philosophical concerns to the side um with there's there's variances that are being made it looks like when the house was built there were variances and it is an undersides lot but the commission's talked all through that and I know that they've got a lot more expertise in that area I think the uh the variance board approved it first and they were satisfied that that it met the uh all right just for making this happen so those were my questions Tom that area over there is that s and water yes yes all of this area is served by sewer and water all right I I personally too close to the lake but that's just me I mean we've had so many discussions about Lakeshore properties and what you can do and can't do and I know they're expensive so I know everybody tries to fill up as much as they can on them uh We've caught in a lot of backlash from it also so but this that this is kind of a secluded area back there too it's not like Hugo Road that that kind of got out of control yeah and and there are a lot of structure pitting it in there and this qualifies as I I just always worry every time you grant a variance somebody's going to come right behind it going you gave that guy in now it's a road we can't go back on all right any other discussion looking for a motion well based on the variance board Planning Commission and staff review and recommendation approve the 10.4% green area variance and the 142t Lakeshore accessory structure square footage variants for the construction of an inground pool at 5691 Orchard Avenue I'll second that any other further discussion all favor say I I all opposed and motion carries all right item 8D the white bear Market space what I think we miss see oh sorry about that I didn't want to do any more variances all right item C Uh Kevin and Julie Lun 5932 hobby Lane okay hobby Lane also on Bal Eagle Lake Northerly portion and uh what we've got here is a proposal for a 1265 ft garage to be attached uh and that is proposed to replace a previously detached garage in this area right here that was 691 Square ft the detached garage was 17 1/2 ft from the hobby Lane RightWay 35 ft is required in this zoning District the new garage is proposed to be a an attached garage this was detached is proposed to be shift it a little bit further from right away there uh with a proposed setback of 20.4 ft and that requires a 14.6 ft setback variance it's uh also the size is over 1,000 square ft that's the town's maximum size for a garage or an accessory structure there is a section of the ordinance which allows an exception to that for lots that exceed 22,000 Square ft and have to be on a designated Wetland area or Bald Eagle Lake or a budding County open space area this lot is over 22,000 Square ft it does abut Bald Eagle Lake and therefore the variant word when they reviewed it the Planning Commission felt it qualified for the ex to exceed that 1,000 square ft uh that being the case and I'll note one other thing the 1265 132 ft of that is part of a mudroom so be part of the home itself rather than the garage even though it's shown in the footprint of the garage there so variance board Planning Commission both looked at these variances and recommended approval uh specifically the ride of-way setback variance of 14.6 ft and then secondly the that's not a variance it's an exception to ordinance 8 as permitted by the ordinance to exceed the 1000 square ft garage size requirement Tom how much did you say that uh mud room was 132 that's actually a separate room in the from in the garage then yes oh is there a reason why you're considering it garage it's just part of an addition shown on the footprint here so that was a that was a detail that they noted during the baren bo well I I was curious because then it wouldn't be as a as much of a variance if it was considered part of the addition and we wouldn't be trying to push another 265 Square fet chiseling at this point yes so understand that's a that's a good point and yeah you could reduce it uh from 1265 by 132 I mean if it's if it's not part of the garage and if it's just part of the addition I guess I'd rather see that number changed sure that 133 square foot so what's that bring it to 13 no yeah 133 square foot exception to ordinance number eight so that puts the variance to 1123 did I do that right 1133 yeah 33 sorry so it's going to be 113 33 ft yep versus a square ft no I know this is we've done a number of these in the township because of the circumstances with uh next to open space and so it's not quite out of the ordinary I guess as long as we keep that numbers somewhat as low as we can it again we don't have someone coming back looking at it any other questions of Tom Steve oh you're waiting for me to do something no I just uh is is the applicant here you okay with what we just did y okay perfect just a numbers game so really nothing is changing as far as that goes no no no all right I'll make a motion based on the variance board Planning Commission and staff review and recommendation approve the 14. 6 foot right of-way setback variance and in accordance with the ordinance number 8 section 5-29 pointb approve the construction of a garage exceeding 1,000 square ft uh in area I'll second that motions made in seconded all in favor say I I I I all right motion carries on your way right item 8D now we can do a white pair maker space Oh Boy you again Tom yep all right yeah white beer maker space is uh a new business opened up in right on the edge of the LEL Edition near the corner of County Road J Highway 61 they're set back behind the bald eal Sports and the holiday station and originally uh when Zappa Sports was there the uh owner of the property prior to the lways in the maker space uh had a sign on the holiday standard uh primarily because they purchased that property from holiday and were allowed that space as part of the negotiation that was a franchisee store at that time now the corporate office has taken over ownership I believe lendway approached them uh for space on the sign but they are us utilizing that for another ad and not interested so lways approached the adjacent property owner of bald eagle station or B eagle quickstop and he would allow them to put up a 4x6 uh Simple Wood sign on the property um but ordinance does not permit that uh it says uh sign placement of signs need to be on a property it can't be on an adjacent property or located elsewhere in the town so this is what's being requested is the town to allow an exception to that requirement allowing them to put that sign right on the abing property and um actually be in kind of in front of the store there but again I'm not on their particular property so the uh Planning Commission reviewed this recommended approval in addition to that there was a secondary request and this is by the owner of the Bal will Quick Stop to consider allowing Message Board signs that flash a message more than once every 30 seconds which is what the ordinance requires they have a couple of message board signs and they're uh hoping to change that part of the ordinance now no recommendation from the Planning Commission on that that part of it is going back for additional review at the June meeting uh but they did make the recommendation to allow the uh the uh maker space sign on this property here so this sign is on the property not in the road right away correct it will have to be 10 ft from the right of way 10 ft from the property line to meet setback requirements do this sign a a monument what or what what is this no it's a fairly informal wood sign you could call it a monument that but that'd be stretching it a little bit I mean is it all got a graphic but is it on a just state your name and your address if you want to lway um my address or the building probably the building your address 3743 Thomas Court okay that is H yeah we've got that picture I'm curious as to how it's is it sitting on the ground is it on two post be on two posts and how high off the ground not Way High I can't remember what he said two by you know he doesn't really say but they're on two 4x6 or they're on two 4x4 post and what's the dimension of the sign 4x6 4x6 the little Lighting on it is there it's unfortunate I mean that that this occurred the way it has to occur but you need this you need signage I'm I'm it's not it's hard to find without some signage oh yeah very much so and I'm sure holiday would appreciate some traffic control so they don't have people wander around and they're a lot looking for you too so yeah all right any other questions comments no I'm good that all right thank you I'll make a motion based on the Planning Commission and staff review and recommendations approve the signed permit request at 5966 Highway 61 with the understanding that that sign as uh I guess laid out in the application does not change at the 4x6 sign I'll make I'll second that then mo may second all faer say I I I I'll oppos all right motion carries thank you all right moving on item 8e Street Improvement 2019-3 the neighborhood meeting update that you Larry yes thank you Mr chair and board members we held a neighborhood meeting last Tuesday evening um for the 2019 Street Improvement project um includes the the streets of the Hobie area Park View Drive in Fenway Court West and woods area and Whitebear Parkway um east of Oakmead um we had almost 30 people attend the meeting and what was interesting about the meeting is uh um only at the beginning Mee I asked how many people came to the the neighborhood meeting in February and only one person raised their hand so it was kind of a whole new group um for that uh that second neighborhood me meeting for this project well that means you did a really good job explaining it to the first group credit were creditor too well yeah I don't know exactly what that means cuz I've never had that happen before but um it it was a little bit different meeting so I wanted to explain some of the things I went over over in that first meeting about the overall pavement Management program so I spent a little more time than I was expecting to on on the overall pavement Management program and why these streets were selected so um after the presentation um we had a number of questions and uh discussion items and just to give you I put a memo in your packet regarding the the highlights of that that discussion um there work there were uh specific concerns in the in in certain areas uh replacement of curbing um limits of the work drainage concerns um you know kind of a description or or reiteration of the mill and overlay process that we're proposing and so going over that um there were three items that were kind of a little more uh um you know talked about uh one was uh truck traffic on White Bear um Parkway their concern was that some truck traffic um isn't patronizing the uh existing businesses on Whitebear Parkway it's kind of a they're using Whitebear Parkway as a shortcut um you know and and are they have are they paying for the improvements and um certainly the people the the properties that are commercial industrial on wiper Parkway the as a part of the project are paying um their share um according to their Frontage along the project but other prop other trucks that are maneuvering through from other businesses in the community um certainly aren't and unless we had a toll system um you know we wouldn't be able to do that so we had a little bit of discussion on that um the in the future when when their streets um are completed um for those other businesses that are driving through they would certainly have to pay their share when they do their um streets um White Bear Park is also built to a little higher standard um anti in anticipation of more traffic it is more of a collector route in and out of that area um it's a connection so we had a bit of a discussion on that um the other another item that was talked about was uh The Accelerated degradation of certain roadways um if you recall when we started this process in um discussion last fall on pavement degradation every street degrades a little bit differently depending on the traffic the uh soils the drainage we''ve tal talked a lot about um so certain certain streets uh are we're proposing some improvements on some streets that are really only 13 years old as early as 13 years old so um there's question about that certainly um again every street degrades a little bit differently um the last I wanted to talk about was uh a discussion on on using a an assessment out mod that's equal across all different areas um there's on the Hobie area their improvements um they don't have curban Gutter and there wouldn't be replacement of of individual sections of curban gutter so there's a question about well our project is is less involved and and less expensive than the other projects um shouldn't we be less than um on their on our assessment so um so there was some question about that all three of those are fair and reasonable too we are expected as much mhm um certainly all all areas if we if we use the the preliminary rate of 3,000 based on the numbers we've computed every area is getting a break on their assessment um certainly there's going to be inequities between the individual projects each street is varying with in varying in width and and improvements so um some areas might have more um curb replace than other areas and it's just um until you get into it you don't know um and when you say get into it you're talking about get actually doing the work work yeah um there is some efficiency in doing all these projects together at once so um hopefully we get good bids and um you know it's uh there're just efficiencies by doing all these projects as one project versus doing them individually so those are some talking points around some of those questions um I last thing I wanted to mention was tomorrow night at the public hearing if the board chooses to order the officially order the project um that is a super majority is needed for that which is four fifths votes um to only unanimous in other words unanimous in other words well thank you for carving that up for us so I can only pull one and a half hands up so I just want to mention that I if I if I forget to mention it tomorrow so we and staff is recommending that um during discussion tomorrow that you at least until the assessment period is finalized in September or October that you still uh refer to the assessments as your preliminary assessments we we will adjust per our bid process if need be and the township will either carry the burden of some risk if they go up by keeping a preliminary assessment fee flat or gain some benefit if it's going to cost us less than what we thought um but you have the opportunity to adjust your assessment rates um uh in September or October even after approving the project right yes and property owner as as a part of that process we'll have an assessment hearing an opportunity to speak to you about about their thoughts about the final assessment whatever is decided by the board but for right now we think you stick with preliminary all I I will reiterate when you talk about preliminary and do as much as possible to Define that so that they realize that that is for budgeting purposes for them as well as it for us and what this might be we don't have a better crystal ball without actual bids but pull people lock in on a number they think that's all that's going to be and and it needs to be reinforced in my opinion I sat the meeting a week ago they heard that number they locked in immediately and they think that's that is the number and so whatever we can do on our websites our news letters anything else preliminary is just that we don't really know that is our best guest at at this time yeah so and again it's different than past assessments well the other because that that is the the big point the people on Hobie up in that area um you know they weighed that in as well why is it equal why is it equal across the board and there are a lot of reasons you can live with that but I I think the other key on this is to talk in general terms about options on on how it impacts an individual household whether they pay it up front they they do it over time uh and keep talking preliminary all the time because that you as I've said in the past we have lots of uh more mature households and newer households and they need to understand how that impacts their livelihood from daily living and this gives them a a kind of a vision of where we think they're going to be there are a lot of moving Parts still yeah um but we are starting to narrow it down yep to get to the point of where um we can make those types of decisions permanent so I'll say Larry wherever you got your graphic for the first screen keep that can't ask for a better better one than the bear all right so just to confirm tomorrow at aake school at 6:30 630 yes uh it will be cable cast Okay anything else lar no thank you right this just informational correct yep y all right any other questions lar before we move on did a good job okay item 8 f p Lord Portland Woods storm sewer uh who hand on this one yes I'm handling this one so um every year the township undertakes certain storm sewer improvements throughout the community where um deterioration is occurred or there's failing um storm sewer systems in our community um the item before you is a storm sewer Improvement um actually a correction of a failing system on Port um Portland uh Woods um it's it's east of Portland Avenue between third and Portland Portland Woods Third Street in Portland Woods um currently that Culvert is failing and Public Works staff um have to pump water out of a pond because the the Culvert isn't uh draining and so um there's a additional Public Works time involved with uh with this area because of a failed system the Utility Commission recommended this project at at the at the May meeting for improvement so tonight we we are looking for approval of of a let me say it um authorizing preparation of plans and specifications and um authorize advertisements for quotes for not to exceed amount of 20 or 2900 for Portland wood storm sewer project noting funding from the storm Water Utility Fund was this basically culbert work yes I I should say that this is for the the U tkda portion of studying the area sizing the Culvert and um going out for quotes the project itself would be estimated um at a $10,000 Mark what we that deal if I can add a little bit so it's a uh a driveway cover to provides driveway access for a twin home on off of Portland Avenue North in the right in the Portland Woods area north of Portland Woods Drive there anyways um the some years ago when they uh put the twin home in there they extended the Culver to the South to accommodate the drainage of that ponding area and they put a weir wall in but evidently at that time the pipe the original pipe section was there for a drive that had been there for I'm not we're not entirely sure how long that has you rolled it away is it a corrug what's that is it a corrugated it's a corrugated metal pipe yeah it's like an 18inch corrugated metal pipe so the end that they extended looks really good but it's the original pipe so there there's no way to just jet it out well we did try jetting we got in once we got beyond the uh newer section of pipe it was going out in another place oops so we we we were we were trying everything to get it open what's the time frame on obviously we want to get this done this year yet oh definitely so Dale on our lengthy list of utility storm water projects Y is this in the top part or is it named something differently because I'm I'm not seeing it on the list yeah so this was added uh Dale penciled in on the last meeting in May I it became more of a priority I guess but I did have the number in there I just penciled it yeah so it is it it outranked all the other ones that you had listed already because what we want to do is reduce when we Pump It takes about 8 hours to pump the thing on Public Works time and we've done it well all right the good news the county was doing originally but when they figured out it was the town's cver we were you know we got no I'm not going to ask they were doing it but didn't send us the bill right that's correct Perfect all right any other questions of Larry or Dale all right it looks like we want two motions here first one to authorize oops hang on hang on well why he's finding and I'll uh based on the town engineer review and recommendation authorized tkda to prepare plans and specifications have a second I'll second all in favor say I I I all opposed all right second one is to authorize Advertising based on Town engineer review and recommendations authorized tkda to advertise for quotes in an amount not to exceed $22,900 for the Portland Woods storm sewer project noting funding from the storm water utility fund I'll second that made second all in favor say I I I all opposed all right moving on item G the 2019 inii project that's M so in early April I had April in early may I had bring to the board a quote to send out to contractors and the board approved it and uh I did email it to so the scope for the project I'll step back cover project is continuing on with the uh inspection and sealing of sanitary sewer pipe joints particularly around the Bald Eagle Area where we still have some Vitus clay pipe but also a check on the uh the polyvinyl Pipe PVC pipe that we have out there too that you know there could be leaks in that potentially so we'll be doing finishing up the original televising uh joint ceiling that was identified in 2016 and then moving on to televis another area for potential inii which is just a good you know to doing a condition assessment via televising for the pipe sections so I had in my estimate well going forward we did I sent those uh bid packages out to three uh contractors who typically do Regional in the region do the pipe joint ceiling and televising and I did rece receive only one response of bidder and that was Ritter and Ritter I did send I did send it out to visur and hydroclean who we've used in the past for different projects I reached out to him you know I had talked with him prior to the bid being do and then afterwards and they um with the exception of hydroclean hydroc clean I had as I mentioned my M I had not um followed up with my call to see why they didn't bid and when they did call back this week they said that because they don't have a 21in packer to seal a joint we have a couple of 21in joints that need to be sealed so they um did not bid I did touch I did talk directly with Vis sewer and they are just booked out for the rest of the year they're not even looking for work they just took on a 50,000 foot uh joint ceiling project they just got we got with all the other projects they said we just can't we couldn't give you a bid so he and he meant he he apologized for not calling falling but so the end result is we we did advertise in the paper um the local legal section twice on May 15th and 22nd we did I did send out the three bid package to the different uh for mentioned contractors and R and rear was the only one with a responsive bid uh it was a sealed bid when they were open on the uh 20 just last Thursday and they uh the bid the bid we got from Ritter Ritter is competitive when I compare to the numbers of last year so my recommendation is uh that we award receive the bid and award it to the bid to Ritter sewer service for $ 32,2 75 that was the question I was going to ask you uh in comparison to the past this is in still in the ballp with one bid it's hard for the per foot number in the joint ceiling yeah they're very competitive with the the other two against the other two biders that did not provide it I know you mentioned the other two you had used in the past I can't remember Ritter and rder have you used them yeah we used them uh last year okay yep yep I'm sorry I should have I feel thank you but I we'd have used them too so just for my information uh was our did we start this project a little later than last year that we only had one bidder or is there timing is timing everything on these yeah well they it just seems like you know things everybody's going it's a busy year and I think a lot of it's been magnified by the the amount of ground water that's out there right now water so I'm thinking there's a lot of a lot of deficiencies are being recognized right now in fact another Township in the southwest Metro was calling me about we' recommend they had a service line that they needed work done on and so this is this year's project how much more do we we have to well we got we got about 50% of the system we've gone through televis so we' got about 50% more to do yet now will we have a lot of joints doing with that it'll be determined by the next round of televising that but with the televising how much of that is the clay pipe versus the uh PVC and this particular project no no no I mean Township wide when you say we're only 50% done yeah did you did you target like the clay type first yes Are we almost done with that yes this is wrapping up the clay so now we're just going to move on routine check our existing system with PV PVC and concrete reinforced concrete pipe just to make you know check the we don't have any leaks theoretically should be better conditioned theoretically theoretically yes Dale is there a reason in your recommendations here you're not more specific on the area or well actually I have a map I didn't I guess just for the record I we have to I can kind of give I can give a verbal on that area so like I did I did on the original bid do you know one we approved the document for bidding so the are is nor um west of West Avenue south of H2 east of Otter Lake and north of the railroad tracks that encompasses the entire project that kind of clarifies a little bit so yeah I apologize for not including that again in okay that is a description of the area all right any other questions no hearing none I looks like we want two separate motions one to receive and one to award so I will say based on Public Works director review and recommendation move to receive bid from Ritter and Ritter in the amount of $ 32,2 75 second second all faor say I I I and motion number two based on Public Works director review and recommendation award the contract to the low bidder Ritter and Ritter in the amount of $2,275 noting the funding from the storm Water Utility Fund second on that second all favor c i i i all opposed all right motion carries moving on uh item H oh we can't do this one this the probationary period for our new town clerk treasure do we just like do thumbs up thumbs down approve or disapprove does he have to sing or something yeah don't you have to get up and make a speech or something I think you guys are tired of listening to me talk already well at least you're sitting now when you interviewed you stood the entire time so that's I think um through the whole process that we went through to replace Mr short um I don't think we could have hoped for or anything better I think it you filled a good spot there Mr Patrick thanks Ed guys oh I would be looking for a motion to disapprove everything I just said well I'm going to disagree with you there Mr chair based on Town Board review and recommendation and in accordance with section three employment subsection F probationary period of the township employee handbook Patrick kristopherson is hereby appointed the township Services is a full-time town clerk treasure guys are so mean yeah I I just had to breathe a little do I have a second on the motion I'll second that motion made in second and all in favor say I I I welcome aboard thank you happy to be here all right next item item I the June executive meeting yeah now that I've gone through probation I can ask for stuff now good night uh so I've got um the league of Minnesota City's annual meeting is a 26th 27th 28th and does not get out until June or until June until noon on the now scheduled um executive committee which is the 28th so I'm wondering if you'd be interested in moving it to the 21st if not I'll just have to cut out on the last few hours of that meeting anybody have a conflict with that no I'm open that to I'm fine okay I'm fine I'm usually the one with the conflict so no I'm good really okay yeah okay I'm good great thanks folks all right so we need a motion to reschedule I'll move to reschedule the meeting of June uh 28th to June 21st executive meeting due to the town clerk's conflict do we have to put that that's what it says minutes I will second that all right all in favor say I hi hi allos and motion carry I didn't write this all right we have a couple of eight speakers added item item 9A uh sprinkling in for Westwoods yes Mr chair we uh Tom had this sent to him Friday today today pass it on talked about it among staff thought we would bring it for the board's attention sooner rather than later just because of the distance or the time between two meetings this month um what you'll notice in your existing ordinance about um water conservation or um irrigation system management the board does have the right to accommodate requests like this per ordinance Your Existence there are it is split into two 4our blocks 6p to 10p and 6A to 10A um Weston Woods is requesting running straight from 10p to 6A for their sprinkling needs if you'll see in the memo am I missing anything there Tom is that a humidity detector yeah yeah not like all would be what have they done in the past have they always done the 6:00 a.m. to 10:00 a.m. and 600 p.m. from their memo it sounds like that that's kind of their that's their history okay because I know that they Spilled Out quite a bit of of why it's a issue and why they would they they don't want to do it that way and why it makes sense to go from 10: p.m. to 6:00 a.m. all this rain I don't know why they're worried about it I don't know know I mean I read I read the memo personally uh what I've always thought and heard from uh people poers to be that you know it's not good for the turf to be watering all night long I I personally think it's a bad precedent to change our policy I leave it as is Tom are you the watering expert well it just seems a little strange to water eight continuous hours it's because it's a complex with 130 units it's not like they're all running all the time it's this Zone then this Zone but it's an 8 hour period where all to go through all the zones that's my understanding anyway believe there's a similar request coming from the Gil and Hills development which is right next door I guess I'm not a grass expert but I'm not even sure if it's if it's good to be watering in the middle of the night seems to me I always thought it was supposed to be duck on type things to M it's a better time for the grass to get moisture it allows the the grass to dry out if it in the daytime versus night and it gets mold uh creates U things they used to I don't kind of grass and M I'm no grass expert other than that's what I've always been under understanding and I just think we you're just opening Pandora's Box by by homeowner developments Homeowner Association next it'll be Three Oaks next it'll be some other one you're diluting diluting our ordinance and it's hard to it's hard to F monitor it I know we just got this tonight but what is there rationale why why does it have to be this way I I didn't get a chance to read all this well system better yep I think the main thing was that the way that they have their timer set up it winds up being more efficient for them they also list why it's a good idea because of evaporation and wind and yeah Turf use during the day and so on um I found it interesting um I I didn't understand some of this about unequal odd and even addresses but White Bear Lake White Bear Township is the only one in the area that requires daytime watering do we even know if that's true it's not necessarily true there's other Metro communities that have the similar watering ornaments it's Madness Heights has OD even watering I think as far as day I believe the same hours okay so then that's not accurate well under supporting information Ed you'll see what they've cited there um evaporation drifting into from the wind from the wind the wind doesn't blow at night huh actually it blows less that's what I that the people that do my irrigation syst system tell me the same thing we go from every person can say loss of use Turf areas patios and sidewalks during daytime watering windows we go 10 to 6 in in our development too yeah 10: a.m. 10 no 10 p.m. to 6A an NOA County yeah I know I don't know what's the pleasure of the board I guess we got your feeling on it got how do you think about it I'm I I don't feel strongly one way or the other I could be talked into either is the wind blowing [Laughter] sorry I guess on the one hand if if it's if it's been in place for a while and and it's worked for a while um to make the change now um I'm I'm not really seeing a a compelling reason I guess my only concern obviously you're supposed to have moisture sensors so you're not sprinkling when it's raining they do but when they fail how do we know because in the middle of the night they're still sprinkling while it's raining so there's no way to monitor this I mean at least during the somewhat of daylight hours it's registering that hey your system's not working correct because you are sprinkling in or the grass is wet it shouldn't be so there is an addition advantage of doing it at night when you we don't can't monitor you can't see what's going on that I guess that's where I would be coming from I'd agree with that and again like you say I it it's worked this long for I don't know how many years I'm not sure if we need to really change it I I don't I don't know if there's a compelling argument here I I don't remember when when did Weston Woods when was that created oh it's been a while uh 20 years 20 years okay so for 20 years years it's they've been able to to work around the daytime yeah and maybe they need to look at explore the different water supplies and controller options that they have available things get dated there's more energy efficient things out there than currently it's the easy answer to just say change it I U I think we're compliance is a challenge for us all right Patrick you want a formal motion for uh a denial on it enough that Steve sure um I'll make a motion to deny the the special request to change the water ordinance as requested by Weston Woods can I ask Bo a question um Tom alluded to another request coming I mean do we want to make this kind of a blanket resolution that doesn't allow for deviation from existing ordinance or do you want to hear it Case by case I don't know if it's going to matter to me I think it's going to matter I I think it's going to be it's it's going to increase the O opportunities to have non-compliance and and I just sick with what we have unless we're going to change our ordinance in its entirety so you should probably wor that that as long as uh is that a resolution then yeah coincides with coincides with current or existent ordinance I'll change it to that effect that uh I I I think the ordinance as is is stated properly for our for our use and pass a resolution that we're not entertaining other options at this time or this board isn't I don't know how to phrase it as such like we did for the uh one-way discussion but similar conversation that's what I'd like to see then start with whereas the town board has an established ordinance regarding water conservation um whereas the establish ordinance is based on was was considered and uh as a rational basis therefore be it resolved that the town board will not consider requests for irrigation system management outside existing ordinance well they draft it up your motion pretty well didn't they I like that pretty good see you know hry um Chad do we need any uh finding a facts for this or not we just we're stay staying with their ordinance staying with the ordin right I don't think you need to okay a fine I think you actually you've actually stated the facts okay Scott you second I'll second that all right motion made second all in favor say I I I motion passes item NB um I can't even read my own writing oh the uh graduation party 10 I got that one that was something I was contacted earlier today about we had had some uh student planning a graduation party up at me Park which is fine does not require Town board approval parks are used it a first come first serve basis uh but they took a look at the long-term forecast and looks like rain on Saturday and so they would like to put up a tent possibly if they need it uh however that requires a permit of approval by the town board to put a tent up in a park so that's what they were request is uh approval of a permit to put a tent in a town park uh that would be just this Saturday uh for a graduation party obviously they'll have to contact Gopher One and things like that when they drive Stakes but we'll let them know remind them of that requirement if this is approved so be one day only tent in the park well it says party from 3:00 to 7:00 when would the tent be up or it might come in Friday I don't know if they're renting it or not it's uh it's not a huge tent I think it's a 20 by 15 yeah 15 by 20 so I don't know if they'll if they're hiring someone or if they have somebody with a tent but typically if they hire it out they come in on a Friday is there a down on a Monday an application form or anything kind of what we come yeah yeah we just generally tell people first come first serve basis there is a shelter there they're just looking at this is back up sure you feel comfortable with this thing setting up for the whole weekend if we get bad weather I mean obviously there's Insurance associated with hold harmless I was going to say all of that the insurance piece that the township accepts no responsibility yeah when we uh when we rent a tent it's up all weekend and that's just their business hours how they do that but they are responsible for it okay personally have no problem with it with the caveat that whole Township is held harmless that would be um see could I yeah something to consider add something so the only concern I have with Tom is that are they Stak or are they just waited don't know because there are there are you know they should call on locates if they going to drive Stakes exactly that's what I said yeah I agree and they have to do that uh think I forgot Friday like right away you got two days to Mark so we'll ask where the location is proposed to just so we know yeah and we're providing no security so I mean if they set it up on Friday and it disappears Friday night that's or if somebody else is camped out using it that's the risk they run in a public park but that's true yeah so I I'd approve it all right is that your motion I I'll make a motion to approve the tent canopy request for the by Adele Harris for the graduation party of their daughter from 3 to 7 p.m. with the understanding that they may set it up earlier than that in me park but that they should be uh checking calling for locate service and that the township it's understanding that the township is no is being held harmless in no way responsible for damages I'll second that all right motion's made in second all fav say I I I all right that motion carries that should be the end of our agenda I had two added items Mr chair if you'll recall I don't so we covered them nope I had a I remember a water gemling upate up um just real quick following up on Two Bills uh related directly to the water Gremlin situation that the residents and the board would probably find interesting is number one the bill that sought a Statewide ban on tce which you know is the chemical that is being measured uh being released into the atmosphere the bill for that failed uh they set aside funding to study further the impacts of tce that was the only thing that came from that the that's part of the funding I remember the amount for the tree trust and the water gin to go out and uh petition to get people to stop using it or not it was a $4 million 4.5 yeah and then there was another 2 million or no a million or whatever for the tree trust and for water Gremlin to I think they were going to have a intern go out and promote non-usage of it so is that coming out of that part of the funding no the the the study funds are just going to be a a line item set aside for the Department of Health to analyze and evaluate impact of tce on the atmosphere state fund State funds versus settlement funds sounds like it okay um then the other the other part of it the other Bill the one that was going to officially legislate a stakeholder group um that would have over oversight of the penalty funds derived from the water gemin uh settlement uh that one failed as well uh the neighborhood concerned citizens group is still functioning um but they have no mandate or statutory Authority granted to them by the state uh regarding distribution of those penalty funds well they never really did though they did they didn't in the first place they were hoping that that was going to be the group that would be assigned sign that Authority and that did not happen I do not and have not heard uh what is going to become of those funds there were a variety of options uh that were on the table for them to be distributed uh I do not have where they are headed for right now but both of those bills failed oh is that a done deal for the whole year then it's done yeah I will uh before before the next meeting I'll try to have some direction on where the funds the funds have gone do you know Chad I don't I don't know I don't either yeah just disappeared follow the money that's [Laughter] right so anyway just thought I'd give you an update all right I'm sure that's not going to make a bunch of people happy um is that it yes all right it number 10 open time anyone uh like to say something just stay your name and address for us please I'm kin Taylor and I just recently moved to 5211 West Bald Eagle Boulevard so um I'm trying to get up to speed with what's going on in my new neighborhood um I did get a a stack of paperwork from Mary Harrington from when she was active and participating and a lot of City things that were going on so I feel like I'm I I was recently reading an article in the pyer Press so I'm revisiting the one-way Street thing everybody cringes because I don't I'd like to get up to speed with that I feel like being a new neighbor in the neighborhood there's a lot of new people in there and I feel like I do have concerns about it and when I read through the documents um from Bill short I think was the previous I've got the entire documents from when they did studies from way back when and all sorts of material and apparently you know they approved everything back then but this is from 2001 so it's been an ongoing issue I guess I'm wondering where where I can find out the most information where we're at with that because according to this article in the newspaper which created concerns for me was that I was reading I'm not we're not doing any more about it it's I mean there were some phrases from you Steve that weren't all that appealing like is out of convenience that we're not or you know or um we're we're not discussing this anymore so I'm out of the loop sure so I would certainly like to hear a little bit more about well the best I guess starting from where we are right now yeah this board passed a resolution stating that we no longer consider West B Eagle Boulevard East B Eagle Boulevard uh an optional oneway so we we pretty much dropped the discussion on it um we we are going to be doing that road next year right so and everything from H2 going north C J will be done this year right so when that portion is done and the way they plan on doing it with narrower Lanes wider boulevards better striping for bike and pedestrian we're hoping that will be a better visual for the neighbors to the south of H2 to see when the road's done how much more bike traffic friendly the road can be and still accommodate two-way bikes and and pedestrians okay when you say widening the road well where they can they will wide the road or they're they're also going to narrow L do that create an easement for on other people's property though no okay it it's basically if they can take area out of a RightWay which is still their Road they can move they can make the road bigger they'll still stay in their RightWay not not going into people's properties understand the paved area takes up very little of the actual existing RightWay that's been dedicated when I say little I mean we're talking about only 50% of the existing RightWay is actually being used which means there may be pedestrians no for anyone for any for any public purpose there may be 60 ft dedicated for the road the road may be only using 25 or 30 yes so if if where there's room they can make it wider still stay within the easement which is their right but when they do this also they're going to narrow the lanes a little bit and that will also help make the road feel bigger because now you'll have more striping for walking and biking on both sides I guess I I'm sorry I keep inter but that's that's our plan right now okay I missed the piece about narrowing the lanes right yes it's just a striping effect but normally I believe they said 10 or 11 11 ft is a normal Lane and if they close it down to 10 that's 210 that saves you 2 feet that adds that to the to the curbs so that gives you more space on the side of the road plus like I said they've got more room going north on H2 that that road when it's done they've got a little more flexibility it gets a little narrower obviously going South but there still there still our spots where they can make that road bigger okay so but we're talking about H2 but I no just north of H2 south of H2 on balal Boulevard okay so I guess my concern still is the level of traffic that comes through there and the trucks and the speed so if it's still a County Road nothing can be addressed with the speed is well you're you're you're correct but we've been very clear with residents that that some of this is self- policing and if there's speeding going on as you said you know we put up speed monitoring signs they they help some narrowing will help some but if they're still speeding residents have to take it upon themselves to notify the sheriff's department to the to the oh to the police department Sheriff's Department County Sheriff's so just I should be yes and if you can get I mean you can you can do U license numbers I I can tell you that they will follow up on that but the sheriff's department is who does our policing for the town for the township once it gets to the city that's the city of White Bear Lake but you know Public Safety is still a item of concern for us but I think what the chair said is that we're hoping that the vision south of H2 on the boulevard will come from what they see north of H2 uh where they told us they're going to widen the shoulders to make it more uh access for families friendly people yeah I guess I don't see how that actually has any impact on the Southshore where where I'm at on that corner I I see it once again as as a cut through from people that not not wanting to go on Highway 61 because it's busy and it's a easy way for them to to skate through to get to the freeway and people constantly are blowing that stop sign I've seen two accidents since I've moved there where the stop sign at some yes so I mean people are are traveling very fast along there all the time we have I mean we've talked about decreasing the speed to 25 it takes a what a state petition I believe it's not something we can do uh it's it's beyond our control but that that is something that we are still going to be discussing when they go to do the road but but if you if if they're blowing signs we can we could request the sheriff to start sitting them more often if you've seeing this yeah because this the first I've heard of it I fact we uh did a check a while back and I don't even know if there was been an accident in that area for at least not reported for some time well there was one up on the corner of uh there's two on the on the corner of Stillwater Street and bald eal Avenue because people come off of the corner there and just speed all the way up the road you know there maybe there needs to be a stop sign on Still Water Street make that a four-way because you know they're pedal to the metal they hardly stop around the corners to get to either way on that intersection and it is a very hi trffic area for pedestrians and um have you seen the traffic counts I have I have them right in front of me here so I and I and it but I think from comparing them from they haven't changed a lot they've been fairly consistent so it's it's not like we've generated more traffic it just I guess sometimes it just seems like it but well I feel like I could imagine there's going to be some push back with people not wanting the traffic in their neighborhood I I think I can I can can see that being a problem um I also see that um the lake is just one of the townships you know pristine things to keep you know that that's an important thing so in part of the road because there's so much traffic there I've taken pictures of the level of how many big trucks come through in just in a single day not not to mention you know the number of buses and I mean heavy trucks I don't know what kind of restriction there is on on weight but there's constantly heavy trucks that are using that road and I I don't know if there is a weight restriction or not are we talking about delivery trucks like everything I'm talking like heavy equipment stuff and and I I've seen PE i' I have pictures of them if you don't like people that that have the dump trucks and and stuff like that so everybody is using that Road for whatever they want to use it for because that road is technically what do they call it a collector or Community County State 8 Highway yeah so and I know that when I looked at and I don't know if there's a new assessment for I looked at the 2010 projected plan I don't know if there's a new one there was a comprehensive 2011 plan yes and when I read on there on page 120 on the line it B basically said currently used extensively by pedestrians and bike riders and it continued to say the trail development should be coordinated with Ramsey County reconstruction and closure of one lane creating a oneway and that was your long-term extensive plan so suddenly I'm reading hearing this from a newspaper article well that's been a little misconcep I'm out of the loop no no I'm not saying that it's it's a misconception because that is an option it's not that it was decided to do that that was an option to us it's not something that was cast in stone like we have to do well then I guess I'm not quite sure why suddenly we're not tabling this to me this is there's not a clear reason why suddenly you just decided that this isn't going to be a one-way Street CU everybody that signed a petition back when was in agreement and approval of this and it never happened I don't know I don't know why other than the only thing I can think of is they were kind of their petition said well we agree to this one way to do it so maybe that left the people's arms tied on the board because they had this petition and the only way they wanted to do it was one way otherwise they don't want to do anything so they opted for nothing so everybody was in agreement on the whole I mean there was 600 people that signed this you know in agreement wanted to do this and nothing happened so now I'm moving in here here and I'm thinking okay the roads are going to get fixed this is what it's going to be planning and then all of a sudden why is this not a perfect opportunity to make this a plan and and have the county do this I I'm I'm I'm baffled now the thing is the county has to do the road period okay the county can only make the road so big period but why can't we coordinate the county and the township to work together to make that plan saying the road can only Built so wide when it's built so wide it can be striped any way we would like right okay what I'm saying too is if for some reason 5 years from now a new board decides they want a one way all that road needs to be done is restriped then the county will turn that road back over to the township why are we waiting five years this is being done next year this has already been gone for 20 well it's been discussed quite a bit over the last five or six years it's not a new issue I I I that's why I'm getting up to speed and I'm living on that corner I don't think this issue is going to go away I think everybody wants that oneway street I don't think everybody does as a board we get inated with all kinds of requests not to do it so not to do it yes absolutely because it's if it's if this is out of convenience I feel like if people can't drive a couple minutes to say to have a better there's a much Road grit and so much salt from overuse of that road it's just it's unbelievable it's all going into the lake so if you want to minimize the use of the lake and and help the use of keeping the lake clean I I think you I think you divert traffic I think your long-term goal was was spot on and all of a sudden I don't know where the pressure is coming from but that's my due sense and I feel like I need to to make it today so well we thank you for your input y I appreciate appreciate you listening I'll come back okay all right item 11 a motion for receipt of agenda materials and supplements so moved second motion made second all in favor say I I I I motion to adjourn so moved we adjourned at 9:18