All right, I'll call the meeting to order at 7:03 p.m. Um, please stand for the pledge of >> allegiance to the flag of the United States of America to the stand. >> Any changes to the agenda? All right. Anyone want to make approval a recommendation for approval of the agenda? >> All right. I will second. All in favor? I >> I. >> Um, no one's online, right? Republic comment. Okay. >> Announcements. >> And then approval of the minutes. So, consider approval of the following minutes for October 28th, 20 That should be 25. Says 26. >> I was like, did I lose a year? >> Okay. >> Like the minutes were correct. >> Yeah, I didn't I didn't see anything, but now I'm curious. Yeah, the date on the agenda is correct. >> Yes. Okay. >> I didn't notice anything. Did >> I'll make a motion to approve. >> Okay. Anyone want a second? I'll second. All in favor? I I um looks like there's no public hearings tonight and then we're on to general business. So consider amendments to title 11-25 of city code regarding residential lot standards presented some research research was focused are council's influence on the metro area more. based on draft two ordinances for discussion tonight. simply amends the standards district. Second option separate ordinance also reduce that zoning district. It did require a change to the purpose of both districts and wetlands or slopes. This is table shows the changes. So current standards 84 size would be reduced in houses. from 25 concept. closer to the road. is potential changes to our district standard various point size. That is essentially wide lot. That's today's standards. 556 reason in the discussions with several of the developers model house or medium density areas could still be approved by yellow. So yellow are Most folks kind of are developing your feedback. questions, comments. Um, thank you for bringing this forward. I am very much in s support of um reducing the lot widths. Um see if we can't incentivize some type of housing. And again, we're already doing this by PUB. And I think a lot of it um it it streamline staff's time. Sorry, I'm just comparing again. Searching the packet. >> Why did the deeper lots go for zoning one R1? cuz I think that would make their blocks different, wouldn't it? To go 130. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I didn't know >> road to road. Yeah. Craig didn't send a response. They have a 65 foot lot right. working on standards. The draft as follows 8,3 are which is also our three district. and they have smaller setbacks, I'm assuming. feedback that I was hearing from you and >> but I would think an R4 or five would be because those are meant to be zero lot line you know but I mean it's like if they have to still meet the building code requirements of fire suppression. Yeah. >> Yeah. So, we've got two options here. >> That's what I was just going to ask again. I'd be supportive of option two, but I also would understand if um we wanted to go with option one and then next year as we are revisiting this again, we can bring it up. >> What was the main difference? >> Five feet. 65 60 and 55 and what was to two I mean option one and option two I'm talking the difference between >> the only option district No, I'm not. So >> yeah, I So is it >> 65 60 and a 55. So >> So essentially option one is to make R2 lot width reduced by five feet. Option two is both R2 and R3 reduced by 5T. In the last meeting we just talked about the R2 correct >> mostly. >> Okay. >> Mostly at the end of the presentation. >> Yeah. But I don't know if we really need to go to 130 depth. I mean that's >> what's our So the depth right now is 120. What is the Can I ask a question? What is the depth behind of the houses behind it mean? I can't imagine that being 120. Unless they meet it because they're on a hill. >> They don't look that deep at all. I feel like they're in my living room with me. I do. They do. And their lights are amazing. >> Right here. I feel like it must be because of that slope. Must be because of the hill the grade. >> Those are smaller here. >> Those are smaller. >> Do these measurements in this one. Your lot was like 120, right? >> Mine >> my depth is I can't remember it's big. >> Is it? >> Yeah. I have I think almost 100 ft cross Is that like a third or something? >> I think Yeah, I'm a pie. Because I'm like on a >> curve. Okay. So, I hear you say, Brad, that you would be okay with doing option two and also a shorter depth. Okay, >> I'd support that. And like what Renee had said, anything different can also go through PUB like everything else does most. >> Just avoid some PUDS coming forth I guess. I mean >> so this would R2 and R2 are synonymous with on your map all the yellow and then R3 and R2 are the bright yellow. >> R2 is the diluted yellow. What about >> Yeah, that's what I said. >> That as well. >> Yeah, >> I like the deeper LS. That's my feel like we're taking away green space and it's just building a top building. >> We're getting away from having that small town feel and the openness I guess opposed to just putting houses on top of houses. only got 40 ft to work with. So yeah, >> because of the seven. So yeah, I don't imagine, you know, I'm thinking like the R4, wouldn't you want to go like a five foot setback, you know, on the sides because they were meant to be side by side. So I mean, >> yeah, in the high density >> in the for say one factor you wouldn't want to is just drainage. It's a lot harder to get >> I'm sure >> range with 10 ft instead of 15. That's my one reason. >> Well, it sounds like the consensus is the option too. Okay. >> Um I was thinking option two just with what Brad had said >> with uh >> because I thought Brad had said option two. >> That's what I thought too. >> And 12. So it was the three of us. Option two with the 120 and then Nicole 130. Was that option two though too? Right. Or did you want to wait until >> it's option two? >> Yeah. >> So I'm trying >> I'm confused. >> I'm trying to find the packet. >> So like I say I was >> So option one is just R2 just the R. >> Oh, I see. Okay. >> R2. >> Yeah. >> By reducing the five to 5T. >> And what is our current R1 at? 85 >> and 120. Oh, it is. >> I don't really want to touch that one. >> Yeah, >> we do have some really pretty areas out here. >> Do you think what you've seen on these developments coming forth, are they going to fit in this category or are they still going to what less? I mean >> right now we're reviewing two concept plans and let you know about the second one. All of the districts. There is another concept plan that we just received in the last couple days 40. >> Wow. What do you put on that >> detach home for a town unit? >> There's a market out there for it. Well, affordability is the big thing for today. Yeah. >> Interesting. >> Well, I mean, >> consensus Sure. >> So, I was under the impression the 120 was our standard, but you're saying 140 is our zoning one, our R1. So, Yeah, I see. >> And that you're saying is 50 square foot larger lot than what would it be? Just like 100 square feet less or 120 >> less >> less than than what's already 8,400. >> I guess that's not a hill of beans either, but I'm just saying as long as it doesn't affect their quantities, you know, they don't come complaining about it. I've got one less house I can sell. >> Yes, I know. I know. It's all about the money. per acre. Bas 650 lotion I think so often But that was an alley. >> That was an alleyway, too. >> Yeah. and detached garages, you know. So, I mean, it's a whole different world out there. >> I think the bigger issue we've seen add something% more space. I know in my house it was the same way. I just didn't have much of a backyard until I built the wall and then So, can we split the difference? Is it a 125 or you can do whatever we want choose, but I'm fine with that. or an extra five and 10. I mean, >> 25. >> Personally, I, you know, I liked our discussion the last month and I feel like I I'm really leaning towards option one. >> Um, I understand the reason for option two, but I feel I feel like a bigger discussion even with the city council to get their thoughts and hear what they have to say. I think that would be helpful as well. Um, is there residents here too? So maybe they can invoke more of a discussion with more people to their meeting. I don't know. Yeah. >> Right. Ask for individual feedback. Right. Yeah. This is 80 what we just talked about a couple months ago between Dakota between Dakota and the school that area. Okay. Heights is south of the >> Those are 70. Is that the number you were stick that you had in your head with the 120 or the an R2 or Yeah. Does that 30 work with >> that 30? >> That's a good size. >> Yeah, they're not building smaller houses. smaller lots I feel like still big houses >> that's fine we can table it I guess is that what you're thinking That's my thoughts. But >> you were saying that unless we had a consensus now, then the council wouldn't do anything with it anyway. >> We could still carry something forward. We just adise them if it's not vote on ordinance amendment or any planning applic. >> Yeah, >> I see. is the is the question of maybe wanting more feedback to the R3 standards. >> Yeah. Well, I would like to know their thoughts on the R2 standards as well, but >> specifically Yeah. >> I think that we know that there is >> many I think that certain moving first. >> Well, like I say, I >> the option one you're saying and then just change the I know. Thanks, What do we split the difference? Make it 125 and then the 65. What do you think? What do you think? >> I'm on oppose. >> You >> are we doing option one or option two? >> Option one. And then just the depth, you know, to get it closer to the not going over in square footage, just keeping it close to the original 00 just go 125. And what would that make it? You said 65 by 125 is like 60. >> Okay. >> See, I support 120. because that's what other cities are doing too. Yeah, that's what we're doing >> here. I'm just trying to gleam all that from here. That's >> But again, we're going to be reviewing all of this next in 2026. So, I mean, >> for >> getting something Yeah. >> comprehensive map. >> Well, I think that's don't So, what does changing the going down to Brad's suggestion to 125 ft deep, will that impact this or this development or no? Okay. Well, I'm willing to vote whatever. We'll move this forward for for everybody. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> What are Oh, we are talking R2. R1 or R2. R2, not R3. >> Yes. >> Okay. There's so many twos and threes and ones confusing. >> So I propose we do one and then just do the 125 option. >> I can go for that. >> Yes. Second it. Motion by Brad, second by Joe. And then we can get feedback from council on R3. Thank you. >> And then we're on to shoreland management ordinance update. This is really just under We don't have the shorland district ordinance. commercial. So that pond or that over there doesn't isn't affected. >> Yeah. >> So they provided us provided of the ideiate this one off the list. That was talked about probably 20 years ago, the trail around there. So, and they talked about a marshw walk maybe and Um, but have any of those lots on the north side of that sold now or no? >> Behind you? >> Yeah. >> Okay. I was like going through there like, "Wow, there's no houses there." You know, maybe they don't like the 80 foot of whatever or whatever the number is. I don't know. >> Chase development retain those four down there. >> But I saw they had stakes in their yard or like a a signage. Yeah. >> No, like a sign that says DNR protected water or or >> you cannot build beyond this point or you cannot mow beyond this point or >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I think it's important to let the people when they're buying the lot to know that that's a requirement because they're going to mow right down to it if they could. So >> that they have to put Yeah. Yeah. >> Environment, which is where they want The shorland is pretty relatively low impact. to low density residential, but the issues come when you're looking at commercial or industrial and high density just isn't accounted for in their model ordinance. So, >> that's the whole reason we couldn't develop the corner over there because of the wetlands. You know, it made it a lot that just didn't work for any of his plans. So, >> between a lot of resial And so that council was telling us >> Oh wow. >> Good luck. we'll support you whatever happens. >> So that's this green highlighted map or whatever that you're referencing the wetlands and of which one of the DNR >> and which is two and a half per acre or whatever >> this will impact then the future development around >> yeah I was going say even >> and even the development that we've already approved >> the town homes. >> Yes. >> There's two lots of left takes a while. >> So what was the impetus to them doing something now decades later? Interesting. >> Right. >> Right. >> We don't have much shore. It's swamp land, I guess. So, >> do we is there an opportunity to push back a little bit? I kind of heard you saying a little bit because this is going to impact a lot of future development. Holy Hannah. Yeah. >> And Oh. In a commercial. Yeah. But in a residential lot, what is your percentage? >> You can get away with resial >> because of all the paved and roof under 10 acres under one roof. It's interesting you got it on there now. building is in there. The water >> pretty current and the roads up here are in there. >> Kind of interesting to see now what Nick did to this land here >> and you know what it could look like. I guess is what he's got done is pretty cool. >> Better than what it had been for 30 years. You ever drive up there and drive to those dead ends that face this way and >> and try to figure out what could happen here? It just kind of It looks big. I mean the lot or the land that that Nick and his partner own there. What discouraged me was driving down Riley Road >> and looking to the right and seeing, oh, those are supposed to be lots over there. >> And there's no curb cuts >> and there's a big ditch. South >> Bart ended up at the very last minute >> for those north ones. They couldn't come to >> really I thought they negotiated those because those were on the plot or the >> plan. >> Yeah, I know. I know. So right now he would eventually be able to get that property from lots >> called it outlawed on his or something. Oh >> my except >> with the I R L >> cuz Yeah, it's kind of interesting. There's a ditch there now. I mean, there's like how do you get driveways? You're going to have to fill in. >> Oh, it is. Yeah. >> Yeah. So, is that temporary or >> So, what would Bart even do down there? But you got to get to it. >> No, no, no. I'm talking on the south side of James. >> There was lots over there behind the whale house. There was >> there was a there was a road edge and or like there was all kinds of stuff done to it. >> Yeah. approval to start building >> cuz I think they only owned half the road at the time. >> I couldn't build the whole >> Yeah, but it won't If you got a ditch there now, you can't access those. >> Oh, I see. >> Interesting. I digress. >> Lot of houses popping. The other one looks like uh they're doing curbs or curb and gutter down or >> Oh, it's p up north there. Okay. >> I have a friend that did the huge back co machine up there. So, he ran it. That's what he does for a living. So, very, very muddy. So I wasating the engineer property south of Meadows and so the city would like to acquire this piece. owns this park. >> So four acres is what you're looking You don't envision any road coming through there. >> But if the city has the land, >> I see. try to preserve their ability to I see. Makes sense. >> Good knowledge. I'm sorry. Did we get sidetracked because of my ordinance and amendment priorities. >> Yeah, I'll just this shouldn't take long. Um we just have a small list of what is it? One, two, three, four, five, six, seven. Um things that we think are important enough to look at our code and consider amending and bring it back to you guys. Um so I think there's two ways to approach this. you know, one through seven, one being the most important or high, medium, low. Um, I think maybe I, unless you guys feel otherwise, maybe high, medium, low priority is the best way to go forward. Um, maybe I'll just go line by line and kind of preface my opinion on it and we'll go from there. Um, so the first one is data centers. It's not, you know, that's in the news a lot, very controversial. I think it's I think that's very important for us to get some language in our code about um what do you guys think? >> Okay. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> It is. Um so okay, consider that high. Um >> no, it's it's a pretty fair opinion. They're pretty, you know, large controversial high water users things that >> um Yeah. I think current data center would be considered a warehouse distribution facility. So there is one requires >> any water right now. I'm not super concerned about this. separate city. We don't have water. >> It's not going to be knocking on our door. Right. >> Okay. >> Yeah, I didn't know that. Um, moving on. Um, exterior building materials, steel roofs are currently prohibited by city code. Um, I'm not going to act like I know much about this other than that Gary, our building inspector, asked me to add this on here because he sees value in it being permitted. And we would make that clear. We wouldn't allow like an aluminum, you know, a tin roof. >> A lot of them are the shingles that are made to look like a shingle, but they're metal, right? >> Referring to. >> Yes, that's what I'm referring to. >> Okay. So, I would say I don't know, low to medium. It wouldn't take a lot of time to do, honestly. So, >> get it done. >> It's an easy one to get off the list. >> Yep. >> All right. >> Good with that. All right. >> Um, next one is screening. So, review screening requirements for commercial industrial uses and residential buffer screening requirements. Rene, do you want to expand on this a little bit? I'm not sure exactly what it was there for. >> Um, well, one thing specifically is screen doesn't segments fence broken up by trees at all landscaping. Yeah, I I'm with you. >> Yep. >> I thought that. Yeah. So, >> yeah. medium. >> Medium or low? >> I think that's Uh the next one is um should exterior parking of trucks be permitted in industrial districts um permitted or accessory use or conditional. >> Do we have any problems now with that in any of our industrial area? No. industrial industrial distrib. 25% require something like >> I don't know specific think I've seen stuff along I've seen stuff along highways where there's like >> the storage where people park their semis so they can get in their car or go home and then they you know for weekend parking or whatever those rental facilities or whatever. Is that what you're going toward or that's not? I think that's also >> part of the question >> or RV parking for seasonal storage. >> I see. >> Yeah. big business storage. employees build >> since I've been here questions from small building. >> I would think that this is a low priority, but Okay, >> you guys fine with that? >> My font is so small. >> Uh the next one is a signed ordinance um reviewed in its entirety. I'll be blunt. This is extremely time consuming. So for that reason alone, I would say to not make it a high priority because it's kind of and it's also Rene's >> baby. So like she would be doing the work and she's already got enough going on. So we just didn't want this to get lost. But um it's kind of been on this list I think well before I started here as something we as >> gone through it a few times. Will this >> now? Would this though address the profanity say on flags? No. >> First amendment. Wow. >> Yeah, I got that call about a thousand times >> during and they are a-holes. Just saying. >> They're our neighbors. Got to love them. >> Um short-term rental ordinance. Um this is pretty much based around Airbnbs and VBOs's. Um I think maybe not in the last couple years, but it was becoming very very popular for a while. I'm not sure where the trend is today, but um I think this is worth looking into soon. >> Do we have a >> we have a rental do we have a rental registration yet or no? Okay. Well, from experience, so Northfield, we just added uh short-term rental as a definition, and we've been working with the state, too, to collect um the taxes from those. and we only have like 40 in Northfield. So, I can't imagine how many uh short-term rentals like for Yeah. for Airbnb. >> Only 40. >> I think it's lower than what? >> Yes. >> So, I was I'm wondering how >> what do we have here, >> right? >> What is our At one time they were talking about that big track or or >> drag strip or whatever they were talking. Oh, you could rent your house out. But it was like >> I can think >> nowhere. Yeah. Are you googling it? >> Oh, Boulder Heights. >> Really? >> Oh, you rent a room. >> Yeah, that's One of my friends, he has a he lives by himself. He owns like a fourbedroom house and he >> just has an open thing. If you want to stay there, you can stay there. And he just he doesn't make do it to make money, just to pay less on his mortgage essentially just to a couple hundred bucks a month or he'll have no one stay there for two months, he'll have one person stay there for a month straight. >> It just it's different all the time. apartment. Okay. Um, temporary structures and carports. This is objectively not that important. It's just to clean up the fact that there's a definition for something that's not anywhere else used. >> So, it's a, you know, we have definitions for everything that's in city code, but it's just a waste of a there's no reason to have it. Or we would add the alternative. We would add, you know, ways you can build a carport. So, like the metal. Yeah, putting the wagon ahead of the horse. I would just advocate to get rid of the definition, but that's a, you know, that's the conversation to be had. >> I had one once. I had one once for a year out in my backyard because I was finishing my basement. I took all my stuff and put in there and built my basement had mice living in it. It's not fun to go through it in the spring and say, "Oh, look at this. It's rattling in there." you know, >> and like we already we require tarps to be put on >> boats. So like that already some protection. I did put it on here just because I looked I was doing some sort of project and there's no reason for it to be there. >> Right. >> And that's the point. We just need to be able to know have it set in stone. >> Okay. Low to medium. >> Yeah. >> You want people here, right? >> Right. >> All right. Low, medium, I'll say then. Um, and then the last one is secondary driveway access. Um, you know, we did issue a conditional use permit recently for something of this nature, and I think there's room to grow and be more clear and concise in our city code. and also just have a larger policy decision as whether or not we're in favor in general for it to be permitted and get rid of >> be discouraged circumstance where they already built this stuff. >> Yes, >> it was extremely vague and you could inter you could argue either way. So that's the number one fix I think >> internally with staff meet What does that mean? I'm thinking medium or high. Yeah, I'm thinking this is a little bit. Yeah. Okay. Cool. Thanks, last meeting 128 contract. This is concept. Orange sample. system. Awesome. building. How many is Five units per acre is what it says. You mean our water treatment Not waste water treatment, but I was like, we don't drink that. >> It's funny. Marty built that house what, 10, 12 years ago. Is that a deep pond up there? Like way deep. I just drove by and I was like, look, look deep. >> Is that because there's all that land to do? >> Huh? afternoon. They're spending money now. And how about the one next door? You said you went over that last >> Sullivan. Best case scenario >> then they would have to pay Dakota up to it or no or was that that after two. >> Oh, they're going to start on the west and work their way and then then do it. Okay. >> Nice. >> Yeah. Parks commission >> and you're leaving that road between them. Just leave it open. >> Yeah. >> Top and bottom. Wherever they Commission configuration. kind of like the trail out to the road. I Better than people walking through somebody's >> yard. People parked for the baseball league. >> Street on the street. >> How wide is that street? >> Yes. >> Which one? >> On 55th. You know there's >> both sides or one? >> Yeah. You can have opinion for their uses that we should >> guarantee the parks commission will not only us but also more orientation could be changed but this Oh, others. >> illustration purposes, but the park designation, the park type, >> that's like a common facility that's found in there. And we just asked them to superimpose stuff on there that >> just to show it fits. >> And I think when I was a coach one time, they really were lacking ball fields. >> Yeah, that's why. Yeah. >> It's a big PR win. This is a big win for for me at the parks commission. I'll tell you that. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I like the idea of like you say centralizing everything, the ponds and whatnot for the municipal works. >> Yeah. So, we'll see. Thanks. What's What's the name guy that had the the farm? What's his name? Bernie. >> Bernie. >> Yeah. Does he go south of that chicken coop house yet and do that? park down there and development. >> Huh? >> Okay. excited to see growth happening again. I mean a long dry spell >> I mean on the west side so south side east side bill Do we leave our bags here then with these? I'm assuming just let it in your bag and just leave it somewhere >> so we have just so we have the laptop and so we can log into it. >> Oh no, I changed my password so you never get I'll make a motion. >> I'll second.