As an expert transcriptionist, I have reviewed the dialogue and the provided context. Note that this is a **Planning Commission** meeting rather than a City Council meeting, so while the staff members (Alex Sharp, Sharon Hills, and Tim Benetti) match your list, the voting members are Planning Commissioners (Schindler, Scanlon, Mahowald, Pruitt, and Sandahl) led by Chair Kirch. [0:00] [Music] foreign [Music] [Music] thank you [Music] [0:49] **Chair Kirch:** good evening I called the April 5th 2023 Apple Valley Planning Commission meeting to order the the first item of business is the approval of the agenda any changes from staff [1:05] **Alex Sharp:** there are no changes thank you [1:08] **Chair Kirch:** any from Commissioners [1:11] **Commissioner Schindler:** move approval [1:13] **Commissioner Scanlon:** second [1:14] **Chair Kirch:** approval by commissioner Schindler and seconded by commissioner Scanlon any discussion if not all those in favor signify by saying I I opposed name motion carries the next item of business is the approval of the consent agenda consent agenda items are considered routine and will be enacted with a single motion without discussion unless [1:34] a commissioner or a citizen requests to have any items separately considered it will then be moved to the land use action items for consideration approval of minutes for March 15 2023 annual meeting recommend approval [1:55] **Commissioner Scanlon:** moved [1:56] **Commissioner Schindler:** second [1:57] **Chair Kirch:** moved by commissioner Scanlon and seconded by commissioner Schindler any discussion if not all those in favor signify by saying aye aye opposed nay motion carries the next item of business is number four public hearings looks like we do not have any public hearings tonight then we go to number five which is land use action items and that is Dix Valley service and presenter is Alex Sharp [2:31] **Alex Sharp:** thank you chair as noted this is a conditional use for site plan billing per authorization for advanced Valley service uh yeah we are seeking recommendations to the city council this evening from the Planning Commission again the two actions are a conditional use permit for the exterior storage of vehicles and a site plan building permit authorization for 15,488 square foot garage for Dix Valley service the site you previously reviewed on at the public hearing on March 1st 2023 it is located at the northeast corner of Johnnycake Ridge Road and upper 147th Street West as note of the public hearing there is significant [3:18] easement on the property it is a 3.15 Acre Site with a large Magellan pipeline easement and is required to treat it all its own storm water the site plan has been updated since you last reviewed it there are a couple primary things that I want to highlight that were noted in the public hearing the first and foremost is the applicant has been able to work with Magellan to move a little bit of their Northern parking lot into the Magellan pipeline easement that will require an agreement with Magellan the second is the purpose for moving that up into that area was to move essentially the entire site covering outside of the perimeter easements on Johnny Cake Ridge Road and upper 147th the Civil plan shows that a little bit more clearly though it is a pretty [4:04] densely populated plan um the primary purpose for this was to because of the density of utilities Within These corridors principally the fiber that is in that area so staff the city engineer and the applicant have worked together to move those uh burning aspects outside of the easement and interior of the site and then shift that entire site slightly further north the stormwater Pond will be in the northwest corner the city engineer has been working with the applicant and this will meet all regulations it will be a private storm water Pond no public Waters will go to it so a separate maintenance agreement will be brought forward to the city council one of the primary items that staff sought from the public hearing and [4:51] planning Commissioners also expressed some desire to see was a layout of the storage on the site this is also included in your packet the site would allow for up to 99 passenger vehicles at up to eight feet in height and then the area shaded in blue which is attached in that draft resolution as well would be four vehicles up to 14 feet in height this could vary on the number depending upon how many trailers they would have in it box trucks potential for RVs and would certainly allow for some of the passenger vehicles as well so a number is not set in the conditions for that right now but the conditions do state that all vehicles at 14 foot or less in height must be stored in this area between 8 and 14 foot essentially [5:39] the other piece to note on this uh was that a fire turnaround was a diagram was required at the public hearing this is something that the fire department has worked with the applicant and this meets fire requirements so if a vehicle were to uh have a fire from after an accident or things of that nature the fire department would be able to service the site there is an additional fire memo that will be added discussions were occurring late with that and so you will see a memo on the city council agenda and an additional condition referring to the fire Marshall's memo that will be one piece that does get added that is very commonly added after Planning Commission review as those relate to fire code not to zoning ordinance the landscape plan has been amended per [6:27] staff recommendations you'll see a slight stagger in the trees and kind of a z pattern to try to make it worth less of a linear particularly along the southern property line along 147th this was to allow for greater growing space between each tree the other piece that you'll notice is that the fence is slightly down from the top of the berm and you'll see this a little bit more clearly on some of the following slides but that is a condition that staff has added to the draft resolution is that the fence be moved up to the top end of the berm or the highest point of the berm to achieve the highest level of screening by doing so um the site diagrams actually demonstrate that an eight-foot vehicle would not be visible already from all surrounding [7:13] trails and public property so they're already able to achieve that without even having the fence at that top of that berm but staff worked with the applicant to move that slightly further up so for instance on this diagram the fence would be moved up to the top end of the berm rather than slightly down on the toe end of the berm this allows for the applicant to have a little bit more room for snow storage staff's on a number of benefits out of moving that up and the applicant was more than happy to work with us to do so [7:50] here's a another West cross section this would be along Johnny Cake Ridge I'm sorry West section on 147th so this is kind of at the corner of Johnny Cake Ridge Road and upper 147th again demonstrating that from the public Trail a vehicle would not be visible they did [8:00] choose larger Vehicles such as pickups in this diagram to demonstrate that the smaller stands would definitely not be visible from public right-of-way this is that East cross section so I'm gonna scroll back just to allow you to see this a little bit more clearly the West cross section was taken from an area right around here these cross section was taken from around here and then the Johnny Cake section was taken around this location all three locations they were able to demonstrate that the vehicle stored on the site would not be visible from neighboring Properties or from public right-of-way additionally opaque fencing has been added all the way around the interior section of the site so that it will not be visible from neighboring Property Owners with the exception of crossing [8:46] the pipeline easement you saw this at your last meeting as well but want to really highlight that this is a opaque material solid fencing they've got it at their existing location which is the image you see at the top and the left that has been installed since they originally opened it still is in great condition and they are proposing to use a similar product which is shown on the lower right here's a floor plan of the 15,488 square foot garage the South End would be on the left of this that's where you'll see most of the offices the rest will be the storage for their tow trucks and service vehicles one of the items that staff in the Planning Commission we're looking for [9:32] was some updated facade information uh some greater detail to the facades we are seeing that through the addition of these textured block areas it's the same material but with a different coloration this is consistent with what we saw in buildings like Opus and Scannell where you just highlight certain Corners add a little bit of color variation to help break up some of the massing this is on the south and north elevations these are the smaller of the elevations where you really start to see this reflected a little bit more is on the East which is the rear towards Lifeworks and the West which is interior to the site with that I would open it up for any questions the two actions that we are seeking this evening is a recommendation on the conditional use permit and [10:18] conditions as outlined on the draft resolution and a recommendation on the site plan building permit authorization [10:28] **Chair Kirch:** okay thanks Alex Commissioners any questions for Alex uh commissioner Scanlon [10:35] **Commissioner Scanlon:** Madam chair Alex when uh for recommendation we should do these in two separate recommendations [10:43] **Alex Sharp:** Chair Kirch commissioner Scanlon that is correct [10:47] **Commissioner Scanlon:** okay all right and the applicant is okay with the various um items from the report in terms of... [10:55] **Alex Sharp:** commissioner Scanlon they've not expressed concern over those we just spoke about the bike rack piece prior to the meeting [11:03] okay other than that these are minor pieces that are often worked through [11:07] between Planning Commission and city council if there needed to be a slight rewarding [11:13] **Commissioner Scanlon:** all right what is the desire Madam chair I recommend approval of a conditional use permit for an exterior storage of vehicles subject to conditions 1 through 16 outlined in the draft resolution [11:32] **Commissioner Schindler:** second [11:34] **Chair Kirch:** made by commissioner Scanlon and seconded by commissioner Schindler any discussion all those in favor signify by saying aye aye aye opposed name [11:47] **Commissioner Scanlon:** Madam chair I recommend approval of a site [11:50] plan and building permit authorization for a 15,488 square foot garage subject to conditions 1 through 17 as outlined in the draft resolution [12:02] **Commissioner Schindler:** second [12:03] **Chair Kirch:** motion made by commissioner Scanlon and seconded by commissioner Schindler any discussion all those in favor signify by saying aye aye opposed nay motion carries thank you thank you very much [12:28] **Alex Sharp:** you're welcome thank you [12:35] [Music] [12:41] **Chair Kirch:** moving on to 5B is short-term rental ordinance and that also presented by Alex Sharp [12:56] **Alex Sharp:** thank you chair this is a ordinance amendment that was initiated by the city at the direction of City Council on March 15th the public hearing was held on this item I'll go through some additional details on that later but staff is Seeking a recommendation if the Planning Commission concurs this evening following ordinance amendments we did include an amendment to some other sections as reference in this but the Planning Commission does not provide recommendations on those draft ordinances provide a high level summary of the ordinance essentially this ordinance is was written to clarify the city's current practices that short-term rentals are prohibited use within residential zones this is not passing or adopting anything any new regulations [13:43] to the city's current practices it was simply uh directed by city council to provide Clarity and explicit Direction within the ordinance there are a number of sections that are affected by this these include home occupations accessory dwelling units the definition of residential district this is again to add Clarity to the ordinance not change any current position the city has had of all of these rules have been in place for a number of years there were quite a bit of comments at the public hearing both for and against the proposed ordinance these are summarized well within the staff report [14:30] and the meeting minutes really go into a lot more of the detail if Commissioners have specific questions on those I do believe members of the public here are here this evening on the item it the public hearing was closed at the prior meeting so it is up to the commission as to whether any additional comments would be accepted I believe that the staff report did as good of a job as I was able to try to summarize the general consensus that was presented that evening [15:08] one piece of this ordinance is a adding some additional definitions the definition on the screen here was one that I presented at the Planning Commission at the public hearing essentially it says short-term rentals are those that are less than 30 days [15:18] long-term rentals are a common use within the community and would still be a permitted use the commission talked quite a bit about the commercial aspect of the lodging piece one of the pieces I wanted to emphasize during this presentation was that it's not the commercial side of the term that we're attempting to regulate it's the lodging versus residence the home is intended to be a residence not used for temporary lodging there are ancillary commercial items that can happen as part of Home occupations in a home where it is still a residence so the the lodging aspect is where the ordinance was written to try to provide the clarity [16:04] the other primary section of this ordinance is a whole new section that was added on short-term rental prohibited this is a new section as you see here the underlined is all new terms [16:22] the recommendation of approval of the ordinance amending the code scene before you I'm available with questions [16:34] **Chair Kirch:** Alex Commissioners do you have any questions for Alex commissioner Mahowald [16:41] **Commissioner Mahowald:** I do believe I mean the the proposed changes are achieving what appears to be the desired objective I still question the the need for it [16:51] um I'm uh it again if the solution is just an outright prohibition the the the changes that are being put forward completely achieve that but I just don't think it's a necessary prohibition I think um there certainly are concerns raised for and against short-term rentals I just don't see there being a significant harm that requires an ordinance an outright prohibition and obviously that's the city council's directive that's the the move that they want to go but I do believe that [17:37] short-term rentals whether it be Airbnb or VRBO or others are are would be advantageous to the community I have and we my family has has rented them throughout the country and um and while I appreciate the concerns about turning a creating a commercial or not using it strictly for long-term residential purposes I I do think that the way these businesses are operated and I said businesses uh is well complements well the residential [18:24] neighbor character of of of any neighborhood um so again I commend the staff for for achieving the objective that the city council directed them to do but I I plan on opposing it because I don't think it's necessary [18:49] **Alex Sharp:** chair Kirch commissioner Mahowald I will ensure that comments are included in my staff report as it goes forward to city council and encourage council members to watch the meeting [19:05] **Chair Kirch:** commissioner Scanlon [19:10] **Commissioner Scanlon:** Madam chair Alex has there been issues in the um with with what we're trying to control here in terms of police calls or [19:12] um anything of that nature that has brought us to this point or bringing for these changes or I shouldn't say changes clarifications [19:25] **Alex Sharp:** chair Kirch commissioner Scanlon there are ongoing Code Enforcement cases pending uh they are A Private Matter that we do not share specific cases um but there are cases ongoing yes [19:43] **Commissioner Scanlon:** okay so it is specific complaints okay so it is something that um it there there's it's been through concerns or complaints that have been brought forward have kept this at the or brought it to the [19:58] Forefront to perhaps to bring more attention to it [20:01] **Alex Sharp:** Clarity our code enforcement department is except for on a few select issues such as trash cans and bagsters is not a proactive code enforcement department it responds directly on a complaint basis we will not and do not go out looking for code enforcement issues it is something that we once received a complaint it is kept confidential and staff responds to as we are required [20:34] **Commissioner Scanlon:** correct okay yeah totally respect that um and then just for clarification and I for I'm repeating I guess what you've already said is that we're not the only thing we're doing here is just bringing clarity [20:44] to an ordinance that's already there we're not taking away or doing anything differently than it's it's just bringing Clarity to a better definition or understanding of the Ordinance [20:56] **Alex Sharp:** Chair Kirch commissioner Scanlon that is correct ordinance for those of us that work in it in a day-to-day basis we we would all come to the same conclusion ordinance is not in a common language friendly way of understanding this allows that [21:18] **Commissioner Scanlon:** okay thank you [21:25] **Chair Kirch:** Mr Schindler [21:30] **Commissioner Schindler:** yeah I've I've I've struggled with this I'm going to be honest um [21:30] you know I for a long time you know I've I've been in in situations where I've lived next door to a house that's being rented out on a long distance and to be honest I find that that tends to be where the problems mostly because when I and I as another commissioner said I've I've kind of um the rnbs all that quite a few times and it's like you you're going there to stay there for a couple days or a week in somebody else's house I mean you're doing that because you don't you want the Privacy to feel like you're at home and and going out and visiting the [22:17] sites or whatever so um whereas it's not it's whereas if you're a permanent renter or a non-shore-term renter I feel like you you're not getting the equity in the house and however you tend to live your life you're it's going to have a long time to show whereas on the short term what what's the person not going to get the grass cut in the two days that they're staying there I mean I don't you know most of the time if you have one of those types of homes you have to keep it up and it has to look nice or else people aren't going to rent it or it's going to get bad reviews so I feel like that self police is pretty well but my real issue is I feel like the housing market has basically left uh single people behind and they can't afford and and as we [23:04] listen when people came in here and I I know a lot of people that I work with that do not a lot but a few that it helps subsidize them being able to own a house um and we've basically our society is priced out single people coming out of high school and college from having home ownership you know and I just think that that's not gonna I don't think it's going to go the other direction and I think the the age of the people that are buying homes now are going to be very much more open to this kind of thing and I think our that things are just changing um and I just don't I don't see that fair to have a distinction of if someone's around I mean either way you're using it as your home whether you're living you're staying [23:49] there for a month or you're staying there for a weekend or you're staying there for two years you're that's your home for those particular days of your life and so you're using you're not using it to you know throw a huge party or I mean obviously people could but I guess I bet you they would never rent another one again through any of those sites they did that so that's why I just think that I just can't can't support this I don't know you know it's it's tough because I really do agree that you know you don't can't control your neighbors um and it's a lot nicer when everybody's in it for the long haul and has equity in the house and it has a neighborhood that works together well and keeps everything looking nice but I just think [24:36] that the way things have begun I think that some some things you're going to have to change the way you think on you can be as Fair as possible so thank you [24:43] **Chair Kirch:** you know I have empathy for both sides I I can see both sides but I guess where I kind of go is and I'm just going to be honest about it is that some people work very very very hard to move into a very nice neighborhood and I know I personally wouldn't want to wake up every day and not know who my neighbor is I'm very close to my neighbors I have a very good relationship with them and um so I go the other way you know like I said I I understand both sides I understand the change of times and [25:22] everything but most people who have a and I'm not saying that every neighborhood isn't important but when people work really hard or nice homes and everything I don't want to not know who my neighbors are I believe that was commissioner Pruitt was next [25:31] **Commissioner Pruitt:** yes thank you madam chair and Alex if you could please um yeah I appreciate it uh just to help me understand because I agree it's it's tough you can see it from both sides um at the previous meeting the the public hearing there were discussions and there were also suggestions that if it were to be allowed short-term rentals uh considerations such as you know permits rules requirements could be maximum you know bedroom size size of [26:10] Home distance between homes were any of those considerations reviewed uh prior to to this meeting as was pointed out by commissioner mahowwald um you know it's basically a choice of here's the rules we're going to put them in stone or or you vote no and I and I just I think at that meeting and I felt you know this boy this dessert serves discussion and fully understand that's what we're here for but you know if this is put on the table is you know it's it's a Prohibition I think was the comment or not um it would help me to better understand the thinking or the thoughts um considerations that maybe were reviewed um you know if you have any insight into [26:55] that [26:56] **Alex Sharp:** Chair Kirch commissioner Pruitt if directed staff would bring something like that forward you've seen things like that with our bagsters with our chickens with special events where sometimes Urban Affairs has been assigned to study something or Planning Commission has been assigned to study something they are directed to do so then by the city council in this case that directive has not been provided the discussion that has occurred was we need to clarify our ordinance staff and City attorney please clarify the current ordinance and thus we have brought that forward [27:40] **Commissioner Pruitt:** thank you I appreciate that [27:42] **Commissioner Sandahl:** Madam chair Alex um I'm also struggling with this um I um I have some similar opinions with I don't really want random people next door when my kids are out playing and I don't know who there is you know but I also understand the other side of wanting um wanting to be able to use a home as an Airbnb um I think what I'm struggling the most with right now is that I understand that what our goal is to just clarify that's all we've been directed to do that's all we've been asked to do um but as as has kind of been mentioned I feel like there's a lot more discussion that needs to happen um with this and so I don't know you [28:27] know um the new language it's clarifies it does exactly what we were asked to do so therefore should I say yep we should just vote Yes on that then or is it possible for us to say you know it's good language but like we would ask that maybe this be reviewed a bit more you know I don't know kind of what the next steps could be [28:44] **Alex Sharp:** chair Kirch uh commissioner Sandahl I think I'm going to lean on my City attorney a little bit on this one um I believe our directive was and the action request is what the commission needs to act on but I would defer to you Sharon [28:59] **Sharon Hills:** Madam chair correct so the council at a [29:12] work session did direct that in ordinance be prepared um to provide clarifying language that as to what a residential use is in a single family District or any residential district for that matter um so the ordinances in front of you you can act on it however you could make a motion um to recommend to you know that that the issue be studied it goes to council and the council then will decide whether they want to pursue having a study done I do I'll just throw this out it's and it's not to discourage or persuade or you know whether you want to make that motion but for historical purposes because you weren't you know on the [29:59] commission that that um the council did thoroughly review this issue [30:04] **Commissioner Scanlon:** what year was it [30:06] **Sharon Hills:** within the last three four five forward [30:10] **Alex Sharp:** 2017 was the last time it was discussed okay that's that's what I'm that's that's what I was referring to it [30:17] **Sharon Hills:** so the this issue has been discussed with Council you know and they had reviewed the issue as to whether they should allow short-term rentals [30:26] **Alex Sharp:** so 2017 just prior to the Super Bowl uh the discussion came up again at an informal session I think it was a robust discussion at that time where the current ordinance uh [30:46] felt that there was Clarity enough as the years have proceeded and the question that continually has come up particularly as residents haven't been able to read us again because code does code is a a document that lists the permitted uses not the not permitted and this is an attempt to provide that Clarity that is somewhat outside of the norm but at the time in 2017 the discussion council did come up about civically short-term rentals and The Surge of them that was going to occur prior to the Super Bowl [31:27] **Commissioner Sandahl:** I would just say that considering the feedback that we've been getting the difference of opinions here it feels to me like something that should be a little bit more in-depth discussion and like research type you know at that time right [31:40] **Alex Sharp:** sorry at that time staff brought this forward um seeking what direction we should take and we've had pretty clear Direction in both sure both occurrences [31:53] **Commissioner Mahowald:** Madam chair Alex um one of the things I mean I do appreciate the comments on on both sides of this um but where where I struggle with is and and I I get it that the the nature of the complaints is confidential but if the nature of the complaints is there is a [32:17] short-term rental next door and I'm pretty sure city code doesn't allow it that's one thing but and in this uh amendment is is intended to clarify that once and for all to me that's different than there's a short-term rental next door and they're having a party there's loud noises there's uh extra traffic there's all sorts of things happening in the yard obscenities are being yelled at my children other disturbances things like that which again would be of grave concern and I know that most of the discussion or much of the discussion at the public [33:04] hearing involved a short-term rental in Doyle's Court um and it sounds like there was an incident back in December of 2021. um and that was a learning experience for the homeowner and again I the homeowner took a remedial action on their own to to notify the police department to get those short-term residents evicted so in kind of following up on commissioner sandals thoughts it just seems to me it's are there are there disturbances or disruptions potential nuisances other sort of [33:51] disturbances of the piece at short-term rentals that are that are occurring at all we don't know because we don't know the nature of the complaints and if there have been disturbances or disruptions or other sort of untoward activities at these short-term rentals is that occurring at a greater extent than it does throughout every neighborhood in Apple Valley unfortunately there are disturbances there are public disturbances there are domestic disputes there are things like that that occur in any neighborhood in any City and so I again trying to act on something based on complaints that we know nothing about it just seems to me that further study [34:39] is warranted and the other thing too is as I and there do seem to be Provisions in place and also Provisions that could be tweaked as was previously mentioned with regard to the the the number of short-term occupants number of vehicles no no on-street parking things like that that could address some of the other concerns obviously nobody has a right to disturb the piece or create a nuisance but we don't even know if that's at issue here um so anyway I guess that's just I just wanted to follow up on on those because you know you you live next to uh neighbors who might have two kids in high school and you might have two [35:24] parents and two kids all driving vehicles and you might have uh a neighbor that has a sport court or a swimming pool and gets visits by all the kids friends during the summer and the the cul-de-sac fills up with with traffic that that's that's living in a residential neighborhood that's so again I'm not saying that everybody should be able to come in and have 15 people living in their house with 12 cars parked in the cul-de-sac but I don't know that that's the issue that we're trying I mean I don't know if that that's a problem so again I just kind of wanted to offer a few few further thoughts because I think this is a good discussion to have and I [36:12] think there are ways to allow people to use their homes um with that can be done safely and without significant disruption um but I again I just think further conversation further study is warranted [36:20] **Commissioner Scanlon:** Madam chair Alex the city is the petitioner for this correct [36:27] **Alex Sharp:** correct [36:28] **Commissioner Scanlon:** so where knowledges are acting up we're not under a timetable necessarily to have to vote on this tonight [36:35] **Alex Sharp:** chair Kirch commissioner Scanlon there is not a 60-day or 100-day clock as we are the applicant correct [36:44] **Commissioner Scanlon:** and based on [36:46] uh Sharon's comments and some of the comments uh coming from here in the public and it's been six years now since you last maybe looked at this in more detail is to step back make a request to see if the city council is interested in looking at it in more in depth before we take a vote on it and then if that's the case to just look at things you know what are the neighboring communities doing is there means of regulating it or so forth so sure to to go forward with it and instead of just taking a vote tonight that possibly might not [37:46] move forward [37:47] **Alex Sharp:** chair Kirch I I believe the City attorney has some piece with that I may be able to offer some clarity too if that is the commission [38:09] **Sharon Hills:** Madam chair if I may So currently there's an application it is a pending ordinance it's an application I would recommend that not table it and then ask the council I should to stay what I would recommend is you act on the ordinance so that with the recommendation so the council knows what the position is of the Planning Commission members and then as a second piece you could make a motion to [38:33] recommend that the issue be further studied because it needs wreck to go to council for them to then write to make a decision just due to legal process pieces [38:52] **Commissioner Scanlon:** understood but just to be cut the clarification so we should go ahead and put a motion forward and see what direction it takes and then based on whether it passes or doesn't pass asks for the city council then to take and whether a further review is warranted or their desire [39:13] **Alex Sharp:** Madam chair the questions now whether it passes or doesn't pass what I'm hearing the commissioner says regardless they would [39:27] like the issue to be considered thank you I mean that's what that's what I'm hearing and chair the way to achieve that is through a motion [39:40] and a vote so that city council receives that motion and vote [39:55] **Chair Kirch:** understood but before we do that I just want to talk to the audience and the public hearing was closed by me last meeting but if there is anybody that has anything new not repeated from last time but something new to bring to the floor you're more than welcome to come to the podium anyone [40:22] **Bonnie Brezoff:** Madam chair and um Commissioners I wasn't present last time and so I get your name and address please first Bonnie Brezoff and I'm I'm from Apple Valley and I do live on Doyle's Court um in an Apple Valley for 37 years and I I think I don't have something totally new but I think the perspective of what's being shared here again um in our court there are four homes and when one has been turned into more of an Airbnb um having lived there 37 years what I find with four homes because that's kind of your neighbors it's really a lot a loss of 25 percent of the neighborhood in that regard and there really isn't then a community with within that because of the coming [41:06] and going you don't know it used to be Fridays is a weekend you look forward to and now it's like how many cars and how many people are going to be at that home and you know what else is going to be going on and there have been some issues and and they have been addressed but you just never know I mean it's sort of the unknown of what activities is going to go on when the cars are coming when the car doors are um being closed and open as far as in the middle of the night lights coming on and off and it's just um it really is kind of both the loss of community neighborhood but there is a level of disturbance and if I would have approached every time there was a disturbance it just it would have been ongoing but there's sort of a level of Tolerance that you build up and then you [41:52] just think okay it's just the weekend I'll get through it um and then you just wait and you think okay what's going to happen the next weekend so I would just say you know I'm hearing the discussion tonight and and not knowing where it's going to go but I would encourage the consideration of keeping you know neighborhoods strong and keeping a sense of community um my background is public health I worked in the county for over 30 years and was public health director and health and well-being is about relationships and it's about Connections and when you start having that not happen whether it's in the in the city of Apple Valley or other places you really lose out um you lose out on having that so I I see the lack of community the lack of [42:39] having a solid neighborhood and then the ongoing issues of there are disturbances it's what level do they rise do you keep calling and worrying about it where our bedroom faces I can hear a lot of it especially if we open our Windows um and again maybe not bad but I'm a light sleeper so do we move our bedroom and try to redo our house so that we're toward the back and not facing the court I think there are a lot of issues that homeowners and residents face and you may not hear all of them but um but they are there and the to me the sense of just having a community and feeling like you know your neighbors and you can not have people just coming and going that aren't online into the [43:25] community is a real it makes a difference and I would encourage you to make sure that's kept here in the city of Apple Valley so thank you [43:35] **Chair Kirch:** you're welcome thank you anyone else [43:44] **Dave Greenewald:** my name is Dave Greenewald I've lived at 5860 131st Street West in Apple Valley for 36 years now I'm adjacent to the property in Doyle's court that they're referring to and I have had no problems with this I I guess I get most upset with people trying to tell someone else what to do with the property that is a fundamental thing for me but also you can't dictate Utopia I'm sorry it just can't it could be that way um these Pro this property has been maintained it's been managed [44:30] and my yard is right next door and I have not had a problem and I just think some things I watched your last hearing I heard about these 15 cars that I have never seen and I think that was fictitious and uh just wanted to clarify that the only time I've seen multiple cars is when the owners have been there so I just want to put my two cents worth in in that regard but this has been as well managed I think as it could be so thank you [45:11] **Chair Kirch:** thanks Dave any others [45:17] **Austin Lewis:** my name is Austin Lewis I live at 14019 flagstone Trail here in Apple Valley uh for the last three years my wife and I had been operating a short-term rental out of our home we began that because we didn't see that it was uh against the rules here in Apple Valley before we began that it's a it's just a little portion of our house that we use there's a little mother-in-law Suite that's built onto the side of our house and before we moved into it we thought that'd be a great opportunity for us to um uh run run an Airbnb or a short-term rental there before we began that though we we went ahead and asked our neighbors if if they would have a concern with [46:02] that and uh no one showed a concern about that so we we went ahead and started operating and we've been operating for three years now and and not once have had a complaint from a neighbor um they're uh uh like has been mentioned before plenty of disturbances in the neighborhood but none have come from our property we do our very best to keep our property up as uh any owner of a an Airbnb or short-term rental um does their very best to keep their property looking most appealing so that more people will come visit um we also have a short-term rental in Burnsville that we purchased last year [46:49] it's a full single family home and before we began before we bought the property we went to the city of Burnsville and they said yeah that's no problem we have a program set up you just fill out an application there is a three percent lodging tax that's associated with that on top of the tax that Airbnb already takes out um it was a very simple process again some of their rules included making sure that the neighbor the just adjacent neighbors were aware that this was going to be used as a short-term rental and again no one showed concerns there and it's been operating since last fall and not once have we had any complaints we do our very best to keep that [47:34] property also looking very well maintained um you know this was a great opportunity for my wife and I my wife stays at home we have four children um as everyone knows you know nothing's getting cheaper and so this is a great opportunity to for my wife to to do something that she can still stay at home with and she does a very good job of running that um so anyways there's a lot more I could share but um it's been a blessing for our family to be able to do this it's been an opportunity to teach our children um the value of work they've come over to well they've [48:20] worked at both properties now helping us clean helping us maintain the properties and my son wants to pursue real estate in the future and I thought well this is maybe a good opportunity for that and so it's been nothing but a blessing for us um like I said no complaints from any of our neighbors in fact some of our neighbors have asked if their families could stay there and uh our our last guest at our we called our little mother-in-law Suite on the side of our residence I was an elderly couple moving up from Oklahoma moving into an assisted living place in Savage but there was no vacancy there and so they needed a place just for a [49:05] short short period of time they weren't sure exactly how long they needed to stay but they finally were able to find a place and they just moved out today and nothing but gratitude from them and so there's so many stories like that so I I appreciate all the comments that were shared today and I just hope that you consider our words thank you [49:30] **Chair Kirch:** thank you commissioner Schindler [49:33] **Commissioner Schindler:** Alex did we I'm trying to remember from the public hearing did that did we did you look and see what our neighboring communities do [49:46] **Alex Sharp:** Commissioner Schindler that was not a item of the public hearing so we didn't look but it wasn't on the item but I think somebody discussed somebody's discussed at the public hearing but staff had not done a thorough analysis at that time I believe the last time we did so was 2017. most of the surrounding communities uh I believe do have some program for it I believe Eagan does not Burnsville does Rosemont does Rosemont does I don't want to speak too much from memory from six years ago [50:23] **Commissioner Schindler:** are there any that disallow it all together [50:28] **Alex Sharp:** I believe Eagan disallows it all together [50:31] **Commissioner Schindler:** okay thanks [50:37] **Chair Kirch:** any motion [50:41] **Commissioner Scanlon:** Madam chair I recommend approval of a draft ordinance amending zoning code 155.003, 155.382 and 155.363 as presented [50:52] **Commissioner Schindler:** I second that [50:54] **Chair Kirch:** okay so any discussion all those in favor signify by saying I [50:58] **Multiple Speakers:** I... [51:04] **Chair Kirch:** opposed nay [51:06] **Chair Kirch:** can I see who said nay... got that so it's motion carry or does motion not carry it's three and three I'm sure it doesn't I carry because it's a three three vote okay [51:28] **Chair Kirch:** therefore what happens next Alex [51:32] **Alex Sharp:** yeah Madam chair so so that recommendations proposal so we asked for a proposal [51:38] **Commissioner Mahowald:** oh I would like to make a motion to recommend that this issue be subjected to further study to analyze the uh potential benefits to short-term uh rentals in the community uh as they've been discussed as well as the potential adverse impacts of them as has been discussed and to include an analysis of what neighboring cities have done uh with regard to short-term rentals and [52:22] potential regulations or stipulations uh that would go with them if it's allowed [52:25] **Commissioner Schindler:** second [52:28] **Chair Kirch:** okay that was moved by a commissioner Mahowald and seconded by commissioner Schindler any discussion all those in favor signify by saying aye aye aye opposed nay nay that motion carries [53:07] thank you Alex thank you everybody moving on to another number six is other business and that is Tim Benetti [53:14] **Tim Benetti:** um thank you madam chair uh for your upcoming meeting schedules we have a Planning Commission meeting scheduled for Wednesday April 19 2023 uh right now I do not believe we have any applications so we might be canceling that uh if we need to our next one will be May 3rd after that uh at 7 pm our City Council meetings on Thursday April 13th and the 27th and uh that's all we have to report for today [53:52] **Chair Kirch:** okay thank you motion [53:54] **Commissioner Scanlon:** Madam chair I recommend adjournment [54:00] **Commissioner Schindler:** second [54:02] **Chair Kirch:** motion made by commissioner Scanlon and seconded by commissioner Schindler all those in favor signify by saying aye aye aye this meeting has adjourned [54:12] [Music] thank you [Music] foreign [54:40] foreign