Welcome to the Mountain City Council. It's Tuesday, November 25th at 6 o'clock. Can we rise for the Pledge of Allegiance? >> I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. [clears throat] >> All right, we have our agenda. Do we have any amendments? There is one amendment. It is in front of each of you. It's a letter from Jeff Johnston, 2306 Norwood Lane on the matter of the um dog daycare. >> Okay, we all got that in front of us, right? >> Okay. So, we'll just amen amend that in. Uh can I get a motion to approve the agenda with that amendment? >> Motion to approve the agenda with one amendment. >> Okay. Can I get a second? >> Second. >> Any discussion? All those in favor, please [clears throat] say I. >> I. >> I. Those opposed. All right, that passes. And then we have our consent agenda. Does someone want to go through those items? Can do that. Um, all right. Consent agenda items A through G. A, approve payment of claims. B, approve minutes from November 12th regular council meeting. C. Approve resolution 2593 approving permits for 2026 Spirit of the Lakes Festival on July 16th through 18th waving fees for purpose of public gathering. D. Approve resolution 2594 approving variance for property at 5459 Bartlett Boulevard. E. Approve ordinance uh number '05-2025 amending chapter 101 of the Mound City Code uh regarding general and administrative provisions related to planning case escrow accounts and temporary sign permit fee and F pay request number two in the amount of $33,732 to PER companies for uh Lost Lake Commons phase 2 project PW2510 and G pay request number four and final in the amount of $8,980.96 to Whidmer Construction for water treatment infrastructure improvements phase [clears throat] one project 2512. >> All right, we got all of our consent agenda items. Does anybody want to talk about any of those? All right, hearing none. Uh, can I get a motion to approve the consent agenda? >> Motion to approve. >> I got a motion. Can I get a second? >> Second. >> Okay. Roll call, please. >> Council member Heric. >> Hi. >> Council member Mcanini. >> I. >> Council member Pew. >> Hi. >> Council member Costellano. >> I. >> Mayor Holt. >> I. All right. All that passed. So, if you were here for any of those, uh, everything passed. Number five, we got comments and suggestions from anybody that's present that their item is not on the agenda. If you want to come up, we'll give you uh three minutes. >> All right. Not hearing anybody. All right. Number six, Mountain Citizen of the Year. WHILE WE'RE ALL HERE, YOU GUYS WANT to do that really quick? >> We're just trying [laughter] to get >> um it's it's up to you if you want to come up now or if you want to just listen. >> It's up to you if you want to be on this. >> Whatever. Whatever. >> We'll have you come up in a minute if you don't want to. Otherwise, you can come up now. Um so first of all uh uh was it two years ago we decided to uh create this new program called the Mountain Citizen of the Year Award. Uh so this is our second year and so we're proud to announce which he already knows because there was a story to this. [laughter] Um he was at work the other day and uh they announced it on the the loudspeaker and and the uh I guess the owner of Jubilee, right? Um >> Bob >> Bob announced it saw a video was awesome. Uh and so how we got to the video in the first place is because I called Todd and he uh did not answer my phone call which is fine. [laughter] He didn't know who I was. So I called left a message and said hey Jason the mayor mound can you uh give me a call back when you get a minute. I didn't want to give it away. So I don't know if anybody would call me back if I said that or not. You decided not to. [laughter] Uh, from what I understand, you thought maybe it was about your water bail or [laughter] water quality >> in jail. [clears throat] >> Um, so funny kind of a funny story, but um, again, tonight the city council is honored to recognize uh, like I just said, the 2025 citizen of the year, Toddrandle. Mr. Crannle had several nominations and I think actually uh two years in a row now um which touched on the following. His welcome, kind and friendly attitude and the way he wears the pride of mound on his sleeve. The way you can count on a hi, how you doing when he greets you at Jubilee. And finally, Todd's willingness to be the trusted safe driver driver and sober cab for residents as they go for drinks or even to lunch. Uh Todd's wife Terry wrote a biography about him that we would like to read now and give just hang with us here. >> All right, Kevin, you want to go? >> Sure. Todd, >> kick it off. >> Toddle did not grow up in Mound. He married into this town 40 years ago and chose to make this community his home. If you have ever met Todd, you would know that he loves his family, this community, and Minnesota sports. Just ask him. He will tell you all about his grandkids, how great it is to live here, and all about the game last night. He will also tell you life is hard. We will all fight tough battles and no one is immune. [snorts] >> Todd will tell you we do we do not succeed without some failures. Even um even greatest players in sports have missed the game winning spot, thrown a pick, sticks, or get get called out for um stealing a home. Todd is increasing, I'm sorry, is incredibly open about the struggles he has had in his life. not having um enough food to eat, having at his car for um for a time, I guess, living out of his car for a time and struggling with alcoholism. Todd has lived things and endured the hard stuff in life. [clears throat] Um he has helped his neighbors. He gave back to his community. People ask why we go and go is now now um someone who is not non-judgmental who always has a a smile on his on with a kind word for everyone and who will give a job to anyone who would work hard and wants to be second a second chance. Todd will tell you he is very humbled and grateful for this honor. He says he doesn't think he deserves it and that others have done far more for this town. We have great firefighters and people who have started food shelves and community gardens. It is true. He is not a firefighter saving lives. He did. His son is, however, [laughter] he he he he did, however, create a one-man company called Catch Ride, offering a safe ride home on weekends when a little too much um fun has been had. People ask, "Why do you give up all your weekends doing this job?" And the answer is simple. As a recovering alcoholic, he knows how important it is for his customers and the community that no one drives home after drinking. In his younger days, he had always had a safe ride and wanted to safeguard that for others. We will never know the lives he might have changed or even saved. It is also true that he has not opened a food shelf, but he has worked for over 18 years at our hometown [snorts] familyowned grocery store, Jubilee Foods. Here he has hired and trained many of our fellow neighbors. Even in the crowded store, Todd has a way of making you feel seen and heard. While he talks a lot, he also listens genuinely and cares. His heart goes out to the generation generation before his and he will go out of his way to make sure their experience at the store is enjoyable. Sometime someone once told Todd singing happy birthday, let me repeat that. I I was ahead of myself. Someone once said that Todd singing Someone once said that Todd singing happy birthday to him at the store was the only birthday greeting he had gotten that day. It is a small acts of kindness that Todd does every single day that makes this community great. >> Todd's dad once told his wife Terry, who married Todd 38 years ago at Our Lady of the Lake Catholic Church, that Todd always takes the hardest road. That is true. The path Todd took was difficult. Yet, it made him stronger and kinder. His life is an example. That tr life is truly a marathon. That if you fumble, miss a free throw, or even strike out, there is always another game. With hope for that walk-off home run, just ask Todd. He'll tell you. Um, I think we we got what 500 likes or something on Facebook. I think you've hit our all-time high for [laughter] likes >> per Facebook. >> Um, one more thing. One more thing and I'm gonna have you come up. Um, Todd, you are exactly the kind of person the city council imagined when we were thinking about starting this program. the citizen of the year and is clearly welld deserved from myself, the city council, and the community. Thank you. >> I'd like to ALSO >> YOU WANT TO COME UP AND SAY SOMETHING? >> TODD, I'd also like to say, Todd, I'd also like to tell you that you are by far the brightest part of this gloomy day. and and I I and I can't think of a more [laughter] >> that might be later. But congratulations. >> It's I love the y. Everybody knows they call me talking to at work. I I very appreciate it. You guys I don't know how to thank Kath came. It was a couple Sundays ago and it is true. Mayor, I apologize for turning [laughter] on the phone call because I'm like what did I do? What did I do? But I didn't talk about the water bill, but I think it's well on its way to uh [laughter] a positive thing. And I'm like, and I got it in the mail, this uh uh thing, and it's like, oh no, what did I really do? What am I [laughter] really? And I ran into uh Mayor Holt at he came up to me at that Christmas tree lighting at the Christmas tree lighting. It was like, Todd, hi. And I'm like, oh, mayor, I apologize for the phone call. You probably It's okay. It makes for a great story. [laughter] I am very I I you know what? I I there's a lot I see a lot of faces in here that that really care about me and I appreciate I love you guys. I see my grandkids. I see my son. I see my daughter, my wife. I see Betsy. I love Rob here. I mean, you guys sure it's all the Kaggles back there, Mr. Hammer. I I I thank everybody. I appreciate it. And it's it's it goes so heartfelt. I was so when they came in Sunday real quick. I I I was so my I saw a couple sisters though really quick and I promise [laughter] I promise I promise I got to tell the story because it was really neat. It was really neat and unique. I saw so I see a sister-in-law come in and I'm standing in my course Sunday. We can wear whatever you want to uh Viking football when Vikings play. God bless the Vikings. I know they're not doing that. [laughter] We're still purple fans. We're still purple fans. My son is why they have season tickets. They go all the time and I know real quick and I said and I see a couple sister-in-laws come in and I'm like, "Wow." And I went to my boss and I'm like, "Wow, what's going on? I got some family here." And usually my brother stops in and says, you know, he's right out of nowhere and stop and says, you know, stop and say hi. And and I'm like, God, I see a couple other grandkids come in and I'm like, "What's going on?" I'm like, why? [laughter] Come on. What's What's going on? I had no idea. I didn't put two and two together. I didn't. I didn't. I didn't put two and two yet. And next thing you know, it's I know the time. I got 10 more seconds. >> You're good. You're good. You're good. [laughter] >> It's our favorite thing all year. My boss my boss comes out of the out of the [clears throat] office and it's a big congratulations and all all my family comes and it was it was really heartfelt and I it's I'm really humble. I I mean, like I said, I don't want to waste everybody's time, but I thank you. [snorts] And I am a citizen of Mount. I've been out here for so long, and it's it's it's a bedroom town, but I I love this community and and I I know we build too much sometimes and stuff like that. I won't say much anymore, but [laughter] the people that work in Jubilee, everybody I see, I I do appreciate. Whether you spend a dollar, come say hi. You know, say hi. You can always say hi to me on the street. I always have a word for you. So, I appreciate you guys. Thanks. Thank you. [applause] [applause] [applause] >> Okay. Well, my face can't get any brighter. [laughter] [clears throat] >> Wow. It's the honor. Just it's unbelievable. It it's it's so surreal. That's when I use the word today. I use surreal. Good. >> That's right. >> Just back. >> Oh, please. Everybody, please go in the middle. Oh, you want me to go in the middle? >> Do you mind coming on the >> So far, I owe you. >> You owe me nothing. >> You've earned You've earned this. Wonderful. You can stay on that side. >> I sure [applause] >> thank you. Congratulations. >> Oh my god. >> Wait. So I don't have to return your phone call when you call. >> They'll call back. >> Yeah. You know, it's really important. That was so >> I mean I >> the phone calls come back to back [snorts] then [laughter] then you're Yeah. Then you got to answer. Yeah. >> It's a two [clears throat] phone call rule. >> Oh, and there's Jubilee Forever. >> Oh, wow. And All right, we're going to move on to number seven, which is a follow-up uh council introduction to review additional information from Max Bitterman. Want to come up? >> Good evening, Mayor, council, members of staff, guests. I'm Sarah Smith. I'm the development director for the city. Uh tonight we have Max Bitterman with us. Members may recall that he was at our October 28th meeting uh at which time he uh presented a council intro to visit about adding uh proposed animal dog daycare training and boarding facilities uh as a use in our land use table. >> [snorts] >> uh it's not currently allowed uh or listed as a permitted or conditional use. And so Mr. Berman presented his concept. Uh members of the council asked that he rejoin us at a future meeting to bring back some information uh with regards to his current facility that is operating in downtown Minneapolis as well as to share some preliminary noise information. Uh this is a council introduction. [clears throat] So we we as staff do not provide recommendations or do a technical analysis of the request. This is an applicant [snorts] or an interested person's opportunity to share a concept with the council to see if it's something that is worth pursuing. Uh it's important that we're not dealing with a specific site. Although the interested site uh for Mr. Berman is located at 4851 Shoreline. Uh, a study would need to be done to determine number one if it is a use that is acceptable not on the site but districtwide within within a zoning district and which district it would be uh permitted either as a permitted or conditional use. And so Mr. Mr. Bitterman is with us this evening. We did uh send notice out to property owners within 350 ft. That's normal and customary for a council intro. So, with that, I will be happy to answer uh questions. Uh, Mr. Bamman did provide [clears throat] an updated slide presentation, and I think our city manager has that ready to to be brought up uh so that Mr. Berman can help walk through the additional information that he's provided for the council's consideration this evening. >> All right. Thank you. >> So, with that, thank you. Nice to see everyone. >> All right. Mr. Berman, do you want to come up? >> Sure. >> If we did have a dog wellness club in M, we would definitely do annual K9 good citizen [laughter] >> or K9 would be [snorts] the first or PD they would come in and we do the same thing. [laughter] Would you guys allow that? Okay. >> All right. So, yeah, the things I added I think you can click the hyperlink there. it'll take you. And so that's what we found out. This was all um on the left side the testing results that we did at our current location and then just researchable data about the different sound management approaches that we'll have. Um I think you can play that video. I I show in real time the decibel testing with the footage. I don't know if anyone wants to see that or not. I think it's a couple minutes of fun. was thinking media comm's not getting citizen of the year. [laughter] >> So while while that's happening, explain what the top part is there. >> Top left or top right? >> Yeah. A lot. >> Uh so in the top left it shows, you know, I labeled each one um the duration. It's kind of self-explanatory. And it shows the maximum decibel level, the average, and the minimum. There we go. [clears throat] You can blow it up on the far right bottom there. There's some audio. I don't know if you got audio there. Yeah, I believe this is the sound test with dogs. And if there's not audio, won't mean much, but it it does have the real time sound meter. This is me saying hi to Thor. No, I said hi to Fen. That's the big great Dane there. Um, another bump for saying hi to Thor. He could get citizen of the year for sure. >> And then I just kind of showed the results there. And then the next one we did without dogs. So, in this one here, we did have a stray dog who refused to go inside, but she just sat there quietly, so >> we didn't worry about it. It's >> kind of a Where's Waldo thing? You should be able to spot her soon. There she is. That's Sunday. We our findings were that it was almost the same. >> And that's just with them hanging [clears throat] out. It wasn't like with them barking, >> right? It was just kind of a sample of what it's like with the dogs. And you know, this is all just bonus footage, I guess I called it. It's just the dynamic there. It's [clears throat] not a traditional dog daycare. It's boutique. It's one of the questions was our size versus the larger ones. It's about a quarter of the size of what and what we would expect to do on Shoreline of what you would see at like downtown dogs or a larger uh rural place like um Jean Spot. Um >> that's Papa. He's great. This is a quarter of the size or what? >> It's about a quarter the size of those places as far as how many dogs we have and you know for boarding and for daycare. I guess what this illustrates too is how it's embedded in a community. Um we talked about last week traditionally dog daycarees are put away set away to allow for dogs to behave. There are people squeaking and screaming because the dogs are so cute. >> That's Olly right there, the big fluffer. He gets a lot of fans. We have people that come to the market just to see our dogs. So, it's kind of a thing >> so they can just go in and out of that door there. >> Yeah. When the weather's nice, we try to be as open as possible. The only reason there's a tarp on that fence is because they're doing construction on Royalston and Border A. But we just have a 4ft fence typically around the whole place. >> Then on the right side is that so barking dog is 70, barking dogs 80. >> No. So that's just researchable data. That wasn't related to my personal findings. >> Okay. And you're saying, >> but your your your decibb were 53. >> Yeah, 53 average. So that and it the app that I was using it gives it a comp, you know, a comparable. And so it's like quiet office or refrigerator hum was what they compared it to. >> And the farther you go out, the less decibels you you get. Cool. Does council have any questions or not comments? >> Um, no comment, but just one question because I can't remember the plan exactly, but just cuz since you have each of them called out, if you were, you know, getting far enough that you submitted a plan, you would have a soundproof fence, an arborite hedge, and a pine tree. You would have all three. >> Yes. So, [clears throat] if you go back, I think a couple slides, I have a picture of about what we plan to do. try to cut the fence as short as possible to allow for parking and also to maximize distance to the neighbors. Um, and yeah, that drawing is accurate as far as what we would plan to do. >> Could we suggest doing like maybe like a higher hedge to maybe dampen the sound even more hypothetically? Yeah, like if you had a I think fence type, what what I've been learning is um kind of loaded composite vinyl is the soundproofing method that's most commonly used. The height of that is something we'd obviously would probably want to be in the code. >> Yeah. >> And also the hedge height is something too that we could certainly do. >> But you could do the vinyl and then hedge with Harbor on top of it. >> Yeah. Around it. Yeah. >> Around it. you know, I drove by, well, I drive by there every day, but you know, as I'm going to work and come home and I'm trying to just imagine it there. And um >> yeah, I I'm glad he did that. I mean, the the the big thing I think that I care about and I think most residents and a couple of emails we've gotten >> Yeah. >> is just the sound, >> right? >> Yeah. You know, the whole parking thing, you know, there's cars coming and going. [clears throat] Um, I'm not that worried about that or like you don't have any guys there. It's it's literally just the barking. Um, >> if there's any barking. >> Yeah. [clears throat] >> Yeah. Our dogs are inside after 900 p.m. right now in Minneapolis and they [snorts] don't go out until 6:37. But if we were in a So the whole idea with a dog wellness club is it belongs in a neighborhood, but there's a balance to that because no one wants to live next door to 60 dogs no matter how well behaved they are. Um, so there's a balance between the traditional model of being in a warehouse, you know, and the dogs go in a dungeon and there's a nice lobby versus having them actually have a place that looks more like a monastery where there's a playyard and it's in a community. Um, and so, you know, threading that needle is tough, but one of the things I would think if we were in a spot like this, potentially you guys would want to have rules about when dogs can be outside. Um, and there's nothing explicit where we are that there's any time we can or can't be outside or that the dogs have to be attended while outside. But I would think in a conditional use or a new zoning rule, you'd want to have supervision um 100% and you'd maybe want to have rules about days and times and days of the week when dogs can be outside because the nice thing is if they have to be attended, if for whatever reason someone had a problem with how the dogs were behaving while they were throwing a party in that house over there, um there's a person there who can bring them inside, >> right? >> Um so it's it's a part of the neighborhood in in that way, too. So, it's a really good question. >> Okay. >> I wasn't really concerned about the the parking level either. I mean, it's like it seemed fine. Um, and I'm sure some of us have neighbors that like they're I do that dogs make a lot of noise already. You know, I guess the total amount of dogs was what a lot of people's comments were most concerned about. It's just >> knowing how many. Um, I think you said it was like 40. 40 would be the average that we would have, but 50 would be not. It would be extremely common to have 50. But something that was brought up that kind of goes to that point last time was it was related to like how do we create objective measures like if we're able to execute an uncommon result with dogs in the community um that just can't be replicated by everyone who would apply and try to use the same code. How do you have something that is um where you can use discretion without discrimination? Right? And I thought about doing certain things like a K9 good citizen test where someone who wants to come in and do this. You guys have an opportunity to assess their ability to work with and manage dogs. Um the same way any dog with public access has to do whether it's service or an emotional support dog. Um, we could create a a test like that for competency because very few dog daycare owners not only don't have a comp they don't have a competency in making sure dogs do well together and behave, but they're also uninterested. Um, and so it would be something that would be a huge problem if we just open the floodgates for anyone to have precedent to come in without you guys being able to assess the commitment to making sure it belongs in these kind of areas. Max, this one for me is a hard one and I appreciate you're addressing some of our concerns. Um, I love your business model. Um, but I feel the same as I did the last time you were here to present. I'm just really concerned about changing our zoning. >> Yeah. in in the neighborhood area because it is going to impact a lot of the neighbors in in terms of just how the the feeling of the neighborhood and the So that that's my biggest issue here. It's not your business model. I think it looks like a beautiful um place for dogs to come hang out. >> Yeah. Um and and you've addressed a lot of the concerns for barking, but there are some citizens that are concerned about losing that neighborhood feel if we open up the zoning. It's not right where your location, >> right? >> I think that's a good point because the best case scenario would be that this enhances the neighborhood and it's great, but then next person comes along and puts one in a similar spot and it's problematic. Well, if you opening open up all the zoning, >> right, >> it could be every other block, you know. So, I think that's what my biggest >> concern is. Yeah. >> Um the impact of of of us changing our zoning to accommodate your business. And I don't think we can open up zoning just for his business without doing the whole >> area. Now, we would need to do a study to determine if the use uh is acceptable either as a permitted use or as a conditional use in a district. And what district is that? Because it's not just this one. It's all the properties that are in that specific classification. I believe this one is commercial, you know. So if so, in other words, if you meet the test for if the code does get amended and uh Jack and Joe Smith come in and want to apply for a CUP, if they meet all those conditions, they go through the process, we have to approve the CU if they meet those. So it the first question is, is is this something that should be in that district? And if it is, what are the requirements that are established with the zoning amendments? Because we're not dealing with this specific site. We're dealing with all of them and the first question is do we think this should be considered >> as an allowed or as a permitted use in the district and if we do we would have developed the ordinance and then as a subsequent if it's a conditional use then you come through that process. The first question is should we be changing the zoning >> right? Is there a chance you could bring up the the whole district that that zoning if we change the the zoning rules what that would look like? >> It might be nice to see that. pop up the zoning map here. Um, just give us a moment. >> And related to that, I wanted to know um, have you looked at other sites? >> Yes. >> And mound. >> Uh, no. >> Okay. >> One of them was Spring Lake um or Spring Park rather >> and they don't want it anywhere in the city. So, that was easy. Um, but Long Lake has been a lot friendlier and we have another opportunity there which would be our other move. And same thing with Excelsier. So, there's a few spots they'd want us to be >> because I think there might be some other spots in mound >> that would be less intrusive >> to impacting neighbors. Um, we don't have a whole lot of sites, but we do have >> You may have some gems. >> Yeah. >> And this is forunate because that location right there, if it were just that location, it didn't impact the zoning. You know, it's perfect. >> You think it would work? I do, too. Um, and I but I still understand the concerns of those surrounding neighbors, too, because >> you know, if it's not the every other block thing doesn't matter. It's 100% of where you live if it affects your house. So, I >> Yeah. See, I think there are some other sites where you're not as close to residential. >> Yeah. Want to look at >> that's what happened when we met with Long Lake a couple years ago is they loved what we're doing. They want it, but they own the property we were looking at and they didn't want it right there. And so they just started calling me with all these listings. >> Well, maybe you could meet the challenge and see if you could find another >> venue or area that might suit this without having to change our zoning. >> Yeah. >> Into the neighborhoods. >> I would be open to that because I think for us being in the west suburbs is great. This is probably the furthest west we would look for store two. Um but yeah, you know, I live in Orno. It's an easy commute. So >> appreciate you're going to the efforts so to >> um make the >> present the changes we asked you. >> So this is the map of >> and it's what the purple areas or >> no the light blue on the far right >> triangle >> the middle lot. >> I have a question for Sarah. I mean, we kind of >> talked about this a little bit already, but like not just specific to this site, but if we amended the city code to have this be >> like a permissible use in the city, what other implications are there that we maybe haven't spoken about or haven't even thought of. >> I mean, that's the purpose for the study. I mean, we want to look at what are the what are the needs? I mean, obviously, noise is a big one. Screening. When we look at conditional uses, generally it's we kind of look at it as a permitted use with conditions. And the conditions generally are to protect adjacent uses. Things that we see that are common with the CU um hours of operation, enhanced screening, uh maybe more higher levels of landscaping, um limiting activities, numbers of numbers of units for lack of a better word. um and determining what those exact provisions should be. I mean, I don't know. Is there a square footage per dog ratio? I don't know. Like, >> you could scare a lot of potentials by making it where they can't jam as many dogs as a >> can by me. We have animal unit per acre, you know, out out the fridges and that that determines how many um units you can >> alone. That alone would get rid of a lot of people, >> you know. So, but that's the purpose for the study, you know, because it's not allowed in any of our districts. I'm just trying to think of what other parts of the city code it might affect or if it's like a non-issue, you know. >> Well, anybody that's blue. So, if you see So, in this district, you can see the blue triangle on both sides of the street and you can see the whole corridor on the east and west side of 110 uh abuing Lost Lake and Lake Langden. That's the mixeduse corridor district. Um, you know, the other district is the green or the mid green rather, and that's the mixeduse downtown. uh you know so the the question is if we allow it where should it be not dealing with a specific site should should we yes or no what are the regulations and what district should it be in >> thank you that helps to look at that to see how all-encompassing making that change would how it would affect mount >> council her do you have anything to say Um, so if we change the zone, it's only going to change those areas in blue or would it affect all of the different mixed use type? >> I don't think we know yet. I mean, I I I think that's the purpose for the study is is should we have it? Should we allow it? >> If so, where should we allow it? And how do we allow it? >> And then, you know, not looking at any site specific because we can't we can't allow a zone on a specific site. We can't we can't do that. has to be allowed within a district and so that's what we determine is it appropriate and if so the type either permitted or conditional if it's a conditional then you go through the process subsequently after the code gets amended and I think we would I mean with respect I think we would look to you know other other communities maybe that have looked at these and again dog daycare while it's uh not a new thing it is becoming a more frequent thing I think in in today's times and we see that you know it isn't just like boarding it's a little bit different animal no pun intended >> I I hear you >> so member this is a council introduction so this is our chance to give him advice if we think he should come back you know to planning or if we're just not comfortable with the concept so he doesn't spend a lot of time and energy >> appreciate that >> you know moving forward on this so I mean it sounds like we're kind of mixed I I think by the time you get to planning and you know back to us I mean I'm open to the concept I I that area is a little a little tight but I think with the right arborite and you know I like your sound study I mean >> to make especially the residents right in that area >> feel comfortable you know I'm talking maybe >> just a handful of houses right there you know across the street I'm not that worried about but it's really just the ones right there >> I completely Remember Jason or Mayor Holt, this has to do with the entire district. >> Yep. And I'm comfortable. >> It's not just that location because that location is fantastic. But >> and I'm comfortable with even opening up to the district saying why don't we allow this in our town, right? We I think we should be more friendly on having more businesses try to come in. But then when we get into the C, we would restrict, you know, his hours and, you know, how many dogs or, you know, whatever else. we can tighten it up a little bit. So, I am comfortable with that personally. I know there's only so many options that we're going to play put these anywhere. >> Yeah, I'm kind of with you where I think it's a valuable service. I think someone mentioned that last time. It was like it's something that our residents would probably really like and use. I can appreciate appreciate not wanting to be in like close proximity to it, those concerns, but if we have the opportunity to put um you know certain stipulations in the city code on it, I guess like the density and hours and all that stuff, I'd be more I mean I'm I'm comfortable with it. >> Well, Sarah, where would we go from here? Is this something that you could come up with a couple scenarios that could or or is this something we would tackle? >> Well, I mean, this is a council intro. They're not, this is not meant to be obligating the city to approve or not approve. This is your opportunity to provide feedback to the interested party. Um, they can so choose to proceed, you know, and pursue the a text amendment. Um, those that doesn't mean that it's going to get approved. It doesn't mean that it won't, right? >> But those expenses and that time are are borne by the requester whether or not it gets approved or not. Um and then we start the preparation of the report and the analysis and the study and then we start the process a a text amendment uh goes through the planning commission first and then it goes to the council with the public hearing after uh the appropriate notification has been accomplished, published and or mailed. And then after that, if the if the council so chooses to approve, then whatever the whatever the approvals are, if it's listed as a conditional use, then an interested party can start that process. We have run them concurrently. I think this is a little bit bigger than what might be a little bit a better approach to to research the matter first before starting the study. I they can certainly request that. I don't it seems like dealing with it first as should we do the use first rather than and get that question answered formally and what does it look like but I really think now it's within the requester and the property owners perview now depending on whatever you know feedback they get from the council and folks that might be with us this evening that may have some comments they'd like to share as well >> I [clears throat] just I would give like high level like for me like I would say thumbs up but I mean it could move along and And >> you know, density changes or, you know, like, oh, we we didn't want that. I mean, I could totally change my mind, but right now I would say >> I hope you pursue it, >> especially me. >> With the with the amount of unknowns that are out there, it's like >> it'll cost time and money and it can No, and that's, you know, that's between me and me. But I appreciate that, you know, your concern over that. That helps. I mean, that's kind of where I'm at, too, where I could tell you tonight, but then in two months, I could tell you, right, >> it's just not the right thing for us by the time we get more facts. And so, >> am I right that no one wants is to just encourage me to waste time and money, but definitely would see some potential here and would be open to it. There's a lot of that, I guess. >> Yeah. And we've had the same thing where it's been like different developments in buildings where we've said, "Go for it." And, you know, people come back with something, we're like, "Well, that's not what we thought you meant." You know? >> Right. The other thing just an idea too and I I know you want to be real like open like concept and like indoor outdoor. I think I'd be even more comfortable if you limited the outdoor and do more more indoor and maybe that's not your business model but >> just saying it. So >> yeah, definitely it's better it it kind of reduces risk of what happens at the daycare, right? Because when you're inside versus outside. Um, but >> like if if you said like, you know, an hour, every other hour, every third hour, we're going to let the dogs out. I mean, unless there's like a major issue with a dog, but >> I think we're No, I think that >> more than we're supposed to. >> Well, I'm just giving them feedback. I can >> Yeah, >> this is the whole point. >> I think you said like in seasonally it's like a lot of the times the dogs are just like, I don't want to go outside in the winter. They kind of >> Well, I mean, it's a mix, right? Like the malamutes want to sit outside all winter. Yeah, >> it's hard to bring them in and in the summer it's that, you know, the tight furred muscly ones like to sit outside and the burners and the malamutes are refuse to go outside. >> So, yeah, I think a big thing for us that makes us different is that it the experience is a lot less confined, but given the nature of that property, it has beautiful um you know, windows and the garage doors. I mean, it's not a bad indoor facility for the dogs. So, >> that's what I'm saying. the indoor part of it. I just outdoor with the barking. >> Yeah, >> it could come down to that. I don't know. >> No, it's I love the indoor part. I think it's a great building for that [clears throat] indoor. >> Um >> I'll leave you with for me, love your business model. >> I'm I'm overly concerned about changing our zoning to that entire area. Right. >> That's that's my concern. >> Yeah, that makes sense. Um, >> I support the idea. Um, because I believe that dogs can be trained. >> That's what they do with the >> exception [laughter] dogs. >> I get it. I mean, like there is a lot of concerns with the whole, you know, changing the zoning for the whole other areas. I get that and that's where I was saying later I might change my mind but >> right >> I think that's what [clears throat] I'd like to hear is more from you know what do we have to do to change that zoning >> and then what criteria would we list as a requirement for that particular business type >> and that's what planning and then of course us would not go in the >> right how do we get that going then >> uh well this is just the feedback part >> so then he he can choose if he wants to to go the next step and I I will say can you just pause for one second I want invite the public up just >> this isn't an open meeting we did that last time but just out of respect someone came out I want I want them to be able to >> talk so does anybody want to come up and say anything >> if you came out for this >> y >> you give us your name and address >> my name is Joel Brad 4876 Portland Boulevard okay >> so basically two houses away from this um >> and you know no offense to was Mr. Berman >> yeah no offense Mr. Bitterman, I I I would prefer this not >> go forward. Um I mean I I love dogs. I've had dogs. I've used dog boarding facilities and dog daycarees and stuff. I just think this is not a great spot for it. It's small and it's wedged in between. I mean, two sides it's basically open, but two sides it's houses. Um I've talked to a few of the a few of my neighbors and I haven't heard anybody that's in favor of it. Um, I mean, I know sometimes the dogs can be quiet and stuff, but if there's really going to be 40 to 50 dogs and that what to me is a small space for that many dogs. I have a hard time believing that it's going to be as quiet as a office or, you know, refrigerator. Um, dogs get excited, dogs play, even ones that are well trained. Um, and it just feels like there's there should be a better spot for it that's maybe in a more industrial area not surrounded by houses or you know, I mean, three you go three minutes west and you're in farmland. I just don't I don't understand why it's needs to fit right there. It just seems like a small spot for me. I I can't imagine there won't be just constant barking. >> Yeah. >> But I mean, I I hope and that's no reflection. I'm sure you run a really good business. Uh, no offense to >> No offended. These are all rational concerns. >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like I said, I've used dog boarding and daycare and stuff before and it's a valuable service to have, but I just don't think it needs to be right in a neighborhood. I we just moved in and uh like the end of June and honestly if if it would have been there when we were looking at the house. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And if we and the and the neighbors next next door to us too that are actually one closer. We're two away. They're one away. Um they just moved in like a month before and honestly if if there would have been a dog daycare there I don't know if we would have bought the house just over that concern. So >> okay thank you. >> Does anybody else want to say anything? >> Yeah I actually my name >> Come on. >> Sorry. >> My name is Gus Pierce. Yeah. >> And I live right across the street from Joel. >> What's your address? >> Uh 4869 Bartlett. Thanks. >> Um my wife works from home. I mean, we have one dog in the neighborhood right now that's would be further away from where that facility is planning to go >> and the dog is inside their home all the time and it barks and we can hear it clear as day, >> right? >> And it's, you know, I just can't imagine I would move. I mean, there's no way we could have 40 dogs. >> And I think about all my neighbors. My next door neighbor, he couldn't be here tonight. I've talked with him. I mean, it's just it really degrades your property value. I mean, having something like that, that noise, you can't sit on your deck, enjoy it. Um, I just can't imagine it. So, I feel, you know, it's just not a great area. And if you have to change zoning, I mean, it kind of seems like it shouldn't be there. So, um, >> um, yeah, that's my >> Thank you. Appreciate it. >> Thanks, guys. Thanks. >> So, I'm on the agenda, but I could go now on the neighbor [clears throat] or how you want to do that >> on the agenda for >> Jeff Johnston. You put in my >> the amendment. >> Just come on up. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, >> so I live we live on 2306 Norwood Lane. >> Okay. >> And um I think it's just for this area it's a bad idea. >> I mean, I've looked I've looked through the um the PowerPoint. Not many details in there about I don't know number of dogs that are going to be out here. Max, did you say >> just talk to us? >> Okay. I was going to ask him a question on that. >> Ask and then he he can respond later. >> Okay. And so the number of dogs are kind of undefined to how many dogs are going to be there. >> I think I heard him say that >> the place in Minneapolis was 25%. It was 25% and this was going to be a bigger facility. Yeah. >> So then the question is, well, is there going to be more dogs because of that? >> And then I looked where their where their site is now, it's not in a residential area. It's an in, you know, it's surrounded by freeways and there is no homes around there. >> Yeah. >> And it seems like to put this in a in this neighborhood in the middle of the neighborhood is not a really great idea, at least in in my mind. >> Right. And then the other thing, the consideration is there's going to be a lot of waste. I mean, >> yeah, >> dog poop and urine, it's going to go somewhere. And I in my in my letter there, I just kind of just gave some ranges on how much it is is one it is for one dog and how many you're going to times that by? But it seems like seems kind of odd if it's 40 25% the size down there and then we're going to only have the same only 40 dogs here. How many dogs is it? I noticed they do some special programs or they were doing programs down at um the one in Minneapolis too. So that's what I just, you know, I just don't think it's a good idea. And then the other issue, I mean, since we've we originally were from Independence, we were in Spring Park and we bought a house in Norwood six years ago and we we love it here, but you know, it's been one thing with the sewer and the water quality and all of that stuff. And now you see all the lakes around there and now you're going to put, you know, how many dogs are going to be in that thing and you're there's going to be I guess the urine will run into the sewer and drains and stuff and I don't know what they do with the how they handle the manure part. >> So, >> okay. Thanks. >> Yep. >> Appreciate it. >> Thank you. >> Anybody else want to come up? >> Yeah, come on up. All right. Give us your name and address. I'm Terry Grant. I live at 2320 Norwood Lane >> and I understand the noise issue and all of that, but I want to come from the other side as someone who would use this facility a lot. >> I love the training classes and I know I would use it a lot and I know there's a lot of neighbors that would use it a lot. >> So, even if this location isn't the right location, I really hope we could keep it in mound. >> Yeah. Um, we have so many businesses that are identical, same bars, same and to have something like this I think would be nice to have in mound. >> Yeah. >> And I get the noise thing, but when are we're in the summertime in our backyard, even in the winter time, we can hear back channel because of the lake. So, if you're gonna limit a company because of the noise, >> it's kind of hard to do for one company but not another. And I know they're in Spring Park. >> Yeah. >> But the noise carries over, right? So, just the other side because I know a lot of people are against it, but um just so you hear from someone who would really >> love it and use it. >> Cool. Thank you. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> Anybody else? Come on up. >> Give us your name and address. >> Scott Gates, 4407 Wilshshire. >> I'm wearing my land use hat even though it says Gus sent me. Um, >> from a land use perspective, [clears throat] I think staff has the right idea. This is a perfect conditional use. Um, you don't want to make it a permitted use because you don't have the controls. You don't have the ongoing control. With a conditional use, you set standards and they have to continuously live up to them. If they don't, you have the ability to come back and review um review that. I think you use the conditional use and say for this use, it's a conditional use. Here's the standards for that conditional use. You set them out right in the ordinance, the expectations. I think you need to, it was good to have the noise study. Um, [clears throat] you can take that a step further and have a professional noise analyst do that, prepare a noise map, come up with some specific quantifiable standards. Noise is different in the average public's mind than it is in the form of when you when you say it's a nuisance. We can hear a lot of things. 98.8% are not nuisances. We don't like them, but they're not nuisances under the traditional idea of that. One way that that gets handled [clears throat] in similar situations, I can tell you the new hotel and restaurant um the shoreline that was a big concern of uh Spring Parks and residents. Um neighboring property owner uh with the apartment building was adamant that it was going to be a horrible situation. It's not turning out to be that way, but they did address it. They addressed it by using a pretty simple noise monitoring system that continuously monitors, records, so there's a constant record. Complaint comes in. You can go back. You can see this complaint was at 4:44 p.m. on Wednesday. You can see what that history looks like. That protects the owner so that he's not getting treated unfairly. Protects the homeowners because they have a method to quantify that. So I think your conditional use permit conditions kind of lay the fear about well we open this up to everybody. First off the blue zoning other than that little area is pretty isolated. So I don't think you have a lot of residential on that. There is a little bit of residential here, but these are indust not industrial, but they're already business uses. And somebody could come in there with one of the permitted uses and be way way noisier than this. So anyway, that's my perspective that I think you have some tools. The conditional use permit is the tool. The rules that you develop for this use as a conditional use give you the controls and the standards and then you have the ongoing ability to address that. Requires some conditions like monitoring and some of those kind of things. let it prove itself and if it's a problem the conditional use lets you come back and say we can't have you outside because your noise history >> is but then Scott once we do that with this business now we've opened up the entire >> the entire section >> that we now have new applicants that want to do the same thing now suddenly >> this is I'm being the devil's advocate I like your concept >> um but now [clears throat] suddenly his fails because he he fails to meet his cup, you know, agreement. Y >> and then but we have other businesses along in that district now suddenly it can get out of control. >> Um I [clears throat] think if you set I would turn that around on you a little bit. If you set good standards and those standards put him out of business because he didn't comply with them, that's actually a stronger position because anybody else can come back in and request this again. Um, in this case, you'd only be talking about a particular use for this for dog kennels. That's what you're going to that's what you're going to create a conditional use for dog kennels to allow it in that zoning district as a conditional use. And Sarah can throw something at me anytime I'm wrong or rebutt me, but you're going to create a conditional use for dog kennels in the mixeduse district. Everybody's going to play play by the same rules then and you have the same control. It's a really big tool and I'm dealing with this in a helping some people on a data center in Monomony. Big issue there. Their code is ancient archaic. These guys can do whatever they want pretty much. So now they're trying to deal with that and after the fact and when you're dealing with meta even though they won't tell you that um they've got more money than God. They have to try and figure a way to do this and that's what they're going to have to do. They might not be able to deal with this one, but if they put a conditional use in, you could do it as a PUD, but conditional use gives you the tools that that you need. And it's an ongoing tool as well, so that if it's not working, you can call them back and call them on the carpet, have a discussion, and maybe you amend those to those restrictions and standards. I think it's just it's something that gives you an opportunity to do this. Try it. If it works, if they meet the rules, great. If they don't meet the rules, then you go forward. And I don't think it prejudices I think it's a positive in your other districts that now you've you've created some additional rules and standards in those districts. So, that's just my thought. Thanks. Thanks, Scott. >> Yep. Thank you. All right. Anybody else want to come up? All right. You want to come back up, [clears throat] >> Max? Sure. >> Or >> you want to say that? >> Yeah. >> I think our citizen real quick. [laughter] >> We We heard you real quick earlier. >> You know what? It's been such a just been a wonderful lucky lucky to be here. [laughter] Lucky I'm lucky you guys had I'm don't understand like so like when Jeff's coming up from I guess I just don't understand like zoning how you go about that what happens with businesses. So that's what when I like I got the letter it was like neat I get to say something again but but I I don't I I I don't you guys look at it like a different big picture. So we're we're new to the whole yeah to the whole thing. So, it it's it's it's kind of fun to look at businesses and how they go about it. And and I'm just anxious to see what either it goes or it doesn't go, how how they, you know, how how go about it. So, that's, you know, and I know my wife's I I get where where Jeff's coming, too. You know what I mean? And I do cuz he he's on the same block as us. And it's just it it'll be I think a challenge for you guys or a challenge for like us citizens to see and that's all, you know, just and I'll see you at the store. I know I will. Okay. [laughter] >> Thanks. appreciate. >> Thank you. >> All right. Um, well, you you kind of just heard everybody, so I don't know if you have any last comments. Otherwise, we'll >> Yeah, I would say to the uh the waste management. >> Yeah, >> it all goes into plastic and you can't smell it when you stand over the yard. >> Um, the drainage, we haven't had problems, you know, as far as the liquid side of waste. um you know having the antimicrobial filler in the turf that doesn't absorb moisture, sand, pebbles. Um you know for the 40 dogs per day average that we'll have like we do it's similar to Minneapolis. I don't know if that was clear. Our Minneapolis locations like that too. Um it just hasn't been an issue. We have people standing around hanging out there all the time. Um the cup information was really um useful because it sounds like it puts the burden back on me if it's written well. It protects you guys from making a deal that doesn't look the way you thought it would. >> Right. >> Where it becomes my problem and my responsibility if we can't execute what I say we can. >> Yeah. >> Um and that protects the neighbors too. >> It's it'll be pretty spelled out, >> right? >> What what you can and can't [clears throat] do or whatever. And it can be written in such a way where if some the people who have concerns those come to fruition then it triggers it not happening anymore. >> Um and so it's nice if those safeguards are there because you don't really know until you do something. You got to have protections in place for things like that. So that um but that's pretty much it. you know, it seems like the same the noise, the waste management. Um, the back channel brewing comment definitely resonated with me because I'm like, how would they be quieter than us? But, >> right. >> Um, >> well, does council have any last suggestions or advice before ways? I would say if you do decide to move forward with it, um I can see planning wanting to know, you know, there's a lot more variables to it than just saying this, but like if you could get a reference of like three or four other facilities of a similar square footage size, >> okay, >> indoor and outdoor and like how many dogs they have, >> you know, like as a planning commissioner, I would want to probably verify that and call them or >> Yeah. But, you know, if it ends up being like, "Oh man, they only have 20 dogs, like this business model isn't going to work or 40 is like dead on." I have no idea, >> you know, but I think they might like a reference point. >> Sure. >> I like your business concept. Um, but I don't like your site >> and so I would encourage you to look at other locations within Mount. >> Got it. Which one's I mean, it's not approved anywhere. I don't know what those colors mean, but [laughter] like the the indigo, light blue, I feel like all of it. >> Yeah. I I can't decipher the colors that well [clears throat] from my >> Yeah. standpoint. >> I think wherever we were, we'd probably be pretty close. >> There are a couple of sites on Commerce and on Lake Shore. >> What are these zoned similarly to places that are adjacent to homes? >> I think what she's saying is there is probably other open sites in mound. >> Mhm. that your concept could work better than that that site obviously got >> would it be concerning to have me get approved with the conditional use permit for one of those spots but then someone goes to the edge of it that's closer to houses >> in that same zoning you know what I mean so the fact that it covers all the same zoning >> maybe that could be one of the conditions is it has to >> be so far from a house or something >> right >> okay so yeah that makes sense >> um any last comments >> any last comments Okay. Well, >> all right. >> I don't know what you're going to do, but you you know what we think. >> I'll be at the pond on Saturday for [laughter] auction, so I'll see you guys. >> Go get them. >> Yeah. Appreciate it. >> Yeah. Thanks for taking the time, everybody. >> Thanks. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> All right. Number eight, uh, continuation of tabled items from November 12th city council meeting. Uh, we got a action on resolution 2589 adopting a street reconstruction and overlay plan. >> First, we need a motion to remove from the table. >> Oh, can I get [clears throat] Oh, he's gone. That's fine. Can I get a motion to move this from the ent? >> I'll make the motion to remove the following item from the table. >> All right, I got a motion. Can I get a second? >> Second. >> Any other discussion? All those in favor, please say I. I those opposed. >> All right. So now that's not tabled anymore. So we got a action on resolution 2589 adopting a street reconstruction overlay plan. Does anybody want to comment on that before we >> Well, if I guess I'll just mention to the city council that this is continued because there was some information that um handful of you looking for generally surrounding our debt limit and how much debt this plan um calls for over the next five years and how that relates to our FMP. I'm happy to take questions. Noah's here. We have Kyle from Ellers. We got the um hopefully everybody that can answer all of them, but I I think that in the packet there was a little bit more information regarding what the debt levels will actually be over those five years. I think there was some confusion with that that uh just how much debt comes on or off at any given time. So, >> can we pull that up that page? So >> 16 >> 2026 that's issuance 2028. So 7.2 8 8.5 2028 we're at seven. 2029 five. So when you add those total up, that's the 27 that we're talking about, right? And Noah, you want to come up? >> Yeah. >> No, I finance director. What you see in front of you is our debt management plan. So for through 2029, we'll be issuing debt to fund our necessary CIP. By 2029, if we stay on our plan through the last four years of the financial management plan, we will not have to issue debt. And when we come out of the plan, we'll be at levels close to where we are now. So that's what that's indicating right there. >> Okay, that's somewhat what I was asking for last time. I was like, can you show the >> coming on and coming off? But >> if you want to scroll the slide just before this is our plan for streets that Kyle has developed for us uh to fund our necessary street improvements. Quick reminder, every four to nine years we do a crack or seal code. Every 20 years we're doing Miller overlay and then after 60 years we have to do a street reconstruction. By 2030 we should have enough fund balance built up in our street funds so we don't have to issue debt. We can't get there overnight though and we have to keep with the plan and issue debt as we go as we continue to keep our streets improved. >> Does council have any questions for Noah on this? No, I really appreciate your addressing all this and giving giving us time to review this again. These were really helpful. Um, you know, to look at after reviewing this and sitting down with you and going through it. I'm going to amend my concerns for the most part and feel comfortable with our strategy going forward. It does definitely fit the FMP from 2024. Um, you know, I I'm still a little concerned about how close to the the debt we'll be getting at the 44 debt limit. >> So, with that debt limit, that will not apply to any water sewer debt. >> Okay. And I've read that a couple times. So, I keep going back to we're getting close to that, but you're saying that that doesn't have anything to do with getting close to >> if you're pledging water or sewer revenue. It does not apply to that statute. I spoke with Stacy at Ellers. They've never have a city that has gotten close to that. Um that's part of the stuff they manage for us as well when they issue debt. So I understand your concern. >> Mhm. >> Um I don't I don't think we'll be anywhere near that. >> I appreciate it. Thank you. >> That was like the comment I made last time when I was stumbling over my words or was I was saying it's like different debt, you know? It's still debt, but it makes more sense to me, you know, like seeing how it's it's like the 27 million. how it's broken up, >> right? >> And then I think we should um you know even use that slide like when we're talking about the street projects or when we're doing the mill and overlay like putting it in our newsletter. There was that slide that I think Matt had that showed like it most made sense to me when I looked at it as the 20-year cycle like where it goes like this and then up and like that you know like to how it extends the life. >> I don't know that helped me a lot. I I agree and I think putting a lot of this in on the website under your streets, you know, where you have towards the news and highlights towards the back end. I think a lot of this would be really helpful for residents to understand. um you know that this is ongoing and and what you've assigned you know in 2025 206 through through 29 and that was an ongoing strategy which we lack prior to this which is how we got in this problem and and I think anytime you can highlight that for residents even me as a council member I appreciate really having a thorough understanding of it. So I mean we appreciate all the work you guys do go to for budgeting too and and know all the work you go to to put these things together. So I think that more residents can see to understand this the more helpful it is. >> Okay. >> And this has been very helpful. >> All right. So >> 2993. >> Do we have a >> Oh, do you have something? >> No, I just wanted to say um I do appreciate staff and Noah putting all this together. Um, I did spend time with them um the other day to go over this. Um, and to Kathy, to your point, I think it's very important that we do note this on the website and at least make it available and have a place to point people to that have questions. We're making a big transition from assessing the residents along these roads for this. And I was part of that in full disclosure because West Edge got caught up in this. And it's unfortunate, but we haven't planned for these expenses and set money aside. And this is a big transition from, you know, assessing people and having cash available versus going out and actually paying for it as we do it. Um I'm hoping that, you know, I didn't go out and look at every one of these roads. I'm hoping I know West Edge was recently done and I think it was done because it was on a timeline. Um, I'm certainly not a street expert, but I don't think it was at the exact time that it should have been done. Um, when they did the I'm sorry, I don't know what it's called, but the >> melan is that they're not melanin. They just put in tar and then put gravel over it and then swept it all off. >> Crack. Yes. So, um, I'm not sure, you know, I'm assuming that this is correct. Um, because I have to depend on, you know, the experts and what they've told us. Um, I'm hoping with this plan that we can get back on track. I am very concerned about the amount of debt. Um, and I understand the limits and I've had it explained to me. However, you know, when I have debt, I may owe my family money, but that money is still a payment that we have to expenditure every month to make those payments. That may not be con, you know, considered in my, you know, debt rating or my um, but I think long term this is concerning. I'm hoping I've got Noah sent me some information on the bond issues and when they're maturing and how we're paying those off. Um it sounds like we'll be in line and be able to do that. Um but I think we definitely need to make sure that we're transparent and we're very clear on what's going on here. Um you know >> I I agree, Michelle. And I think also just for the people that live on these streets, you know, they can kind of prepare mentally. It's like, oh wow, my streets on for 2029. I I I I find this all so interesting. All the infrastructure and all the work that we do. >> Yeah. >> And and as a resident, I just sit around halftime going, "What the heck are they doing on my street? They just redid that two years ago." You know, so I think all residents appreciate more information on this. So I think you wrote it out really well when you divvied up the streets and what you're doing with reconstruction versus mill overly and seal coat. It'd be great to put it on. So, it's ongoing so residents can as always just go to one shop stopping and know that they can find information and what they're looking for. So, I appreciate >> the thoughtfulness in putting this together >> and maybe even a tight little paragraph, you know, mill and overlay what that means, how long we expect the road to last >> due to the, you know, what's the result of that? What does it end up doing? and the cycle of it even though I guess you do say the cycle somewhere in this every 20 years every >> but the the more simple bullet point information I think >> all of us that aren't as bright as you guys um do have an appreciation of the information >> and it will also help you feel the questions you can just say you know I'd be happy to answer any questions you have but we've built this out on the website [clears throat] please go there and look it would be very beneficial for you to have a better understanding >> or And and you know that brings to just because we're talking about putting this into the street portion of the website, the information on the well that you put out in this recent newsletter. We need to update that too because there's nothing that's been put on the water portion since our July 22nd meeting. So that info should be included because that was really good info, Mayor that was in the newsletter and [clears throat] that's nowhere to be found on the website. >> Yeah. Um, it's an ongoing conversation regarding our communication strategy, which I'm now well verssed in. Um, and I'd say as staff, we agree that the more we can sort of save off questions by having information available, that's that's better for everybody. >> Let's update the water tab and then Leila, we'll talk about the newsletter and then maybe we can add some of this to one of the pages or something. Right. Because this is a well thoughtout plan. >> Yeah, it really is. >> And you know, if you ask the average person living in the area and you said, "What are they spending $22 million on?" >> Well, >> are our roads really that bad? I mean, you know, we have to replace them. >> But a lot of this is proactive, too, to keep things from going south. So again, the more you can explain this in simple layman terms, >> the easier people um >> can digest it and and the money being spent. [clears throat] >> Cool. >> Thank you. >> All right, we got a resolution here, page 2993, if someone wants to make a motion. [clears throat] >> What page? >> Uh 2993. I can do that. Okay. >> Uh, resolution to extract Oh, wait. 2993. [clears throat] >> Yeah. >> Oh, resolution adopting a street reconstruction and overlay plan and approving the in issuance of general obligation street reconstruction bonds. Resolution number 25-89. And just for the record, that's a motion four. >> Yeah. >> Motion four. >> Okay. So, we got our motion. Can I get a second? >> Second. >> Any other discussion? >> All those in favor, please say I. >> I. >> Those opposed. All right. That passes. And then we also have uh B action on resolution 2590. This is on page 3002. It's right there. >> Do we need to take that off the table, too? Uh, do we need to untab it or does that go with the other one? >> Um, what was the original motion for the >> Well, we unt. >> Okay. What's on table B then? >> Okay. Can I get a motion to unt. >> Okay. I make the motion to unte item B. Um, [clears throat] action resolution um 2590 approving property tax abatements. >> Okay, I got a motion. Can I get a second? >> Second. >> Second. >> Okay. Any other discussion? All those in favor, please say I. >> I. >> I. Those opposed. >> All right. That's untd. So then again, B action on a resolution 2590 approving property tax abatement related to financing phase 2. Uh on page 3002, could someone make a motion for this resolution? I >> can do that. Okay. >> I would like to make a motion approving resolution 25-90. Resolution approving property tax abatements. >> Okay. Got a motion. Can I get a second? >> Second. >> Any other discussion? All those in favor, please say I. >> I. Those opposed. All right. That passes. All right. Number nine, we're 2026A bond issuance resolution 2591 providing for the issuance and sale of 7,240,000 of general obligation bonds series 2026A. We got a resolution on page 3016. Can we get a motion for this resolution? I'll make a motion for resolution um is that right? A motion to >> y >> resolution um oh gosh providing for the um issuance of and sale of 7 million gosh 24 to 240,000 uh and general obligation bonds um series 2028 >> Mr. 20 26A. >> Oh, 26A. >> Yeah, technically it's it's a motion for approving the resolution. >> It's a motion for approving the resolution. Okay, >> good. All right. Got the motion there. Uh, can I get a second? >> Second. >> Any discussion? All those in favor, please say I. >> I. >> Those opposed. All right, that passes. All right, number 10. We got Kyle uh Sawyer [clears throat] of Ellers and Associate recommending 20 26 water institute water and sewer utility rates. >> No, I finance director. I'm just going to give a quick background. At the July 22nd council meeting, the city presented a water treatment solutions update where we talked about financing a possible water treatment facility. As you know, the city is eligible to receive below market financing through the PFA. The PFA highly suggests that we update a utility rate study to make sure we have a plan to be able to pay for the debt service of a water treatment plant. At that meeting, council directed staff to receive a request for proposal from Ellers to update the utility rate study and financial management plan. That proposal was approved at the September 23rd meeting. It is in two phases. Phase one will be um presented tonight by Kyle. Phase one recommends our 2026 water and sewer rates and phase two will be completed in early 2027 and that's where you'll get more of the >> early 27 phase two will be completed. >> The study. >> Yeah, the study. Y >> 26. >> Oh 26. Yes. >> Okay. Scar me. >> There you go. I I skipped a year. Uh which will >> go into deeper to the financing options of the water treatment facility as well. So tonight, uh, we have Kyle Sawyer with Ellers. He's the director of fiscal consulting, and he will be recommending our water and sewer rates for 2026. >> Thank you, [clears throat] >> welcome. >> Thank you, mayor, members of council. >> Jesse, >> bye, Matt. >> Um, so I got a PowerPoint prepared here tonight. I think >> Jesse's my go-to here to get us through the slides. So, I'll wait till we get that queued up and and some of this has been previewed already tonight throughout the presentation. So, uh a little bit of this is repeat here, but uh first few slides here are just really the stage setting slides just give you a little background. Uh some of which Noah has already mentioned. So, first slide here just to give you an idea of the timeline, uh the work we've done to date and the work we have ahead of us here. Um so we actually presented the original financial management plan first in September of 2023. Um we had a component of that that touched on the utility funds. Um with further discussion with council we uh were approved to do a combination utility rate study and financial management plan which we presented in June of 2024 uh and which was approved here by this council. Um, as Noah mentioned, July 2025, a request was made from the PFA um for a um lower rate loan um and uh they highly suggested to do an updated rate study. I was here in front of you back in September um presenting a proposal to do an update to the rate study and financial management plan. Uh here we are tonight uh with phase one of this study looking at the water and sewer funds and the the really the cash flow needed to fund the projects. Um so that's phase one and that'll be informing the 2026 rates and I believe the the fee schedule is the next item on the agenda. So uh very timely there. Um then the kind of our next our next steps and timeline here. Um we were planning to meet with the finance committee in January to review uh the further development of the financial management plan incorporating the water treatment plant scenarios. Uh we'd be back here with the city council in March of 2026 presenting those scenarios. In June of 2026, the city would determine or or find out if state bonding was awarded. uh that would then further clarify which scenario the city would be pursuing for that water treatment plant. Uh so really finalizing things July of August once we know more about the funding. Uh as we go along we'll obviously know more about the cost of the water treatment plant as well. So uh that's the timeline there. >> I love this timeline by the way. >> Thanks. >> That's very good. >> Thanks. Well, thank you Ila for the suggestion. So um so just to give you a little background on phase one, phase two and what we're doing. So again, we're here we're here to I'm here tonight to talk about phase one. Uh really our our main goals here are to to inform the city council about the 2026 rates for water and sewer. Uh make sure they're being set appropriately. So we're looking uh in a in a moment I'll go through all sorts of changes that happened over the last year. Um some being related to the construction, the CIP plan, uh additional costs, changes in consumption, and then the Met council charges for sewer, uh which is the largest um cost within the sewer fund. Uh so we're really looking to bridge the gap in the rates between now and phase two. Uh and just to remind the council, you know, as we as we did our last study. Um you know, the water rates, there was no increase to water rates from 2018 to 2023. So [snorts and clears throat] we're really still closing that gap. Uh storm rates were reduced by 90% in 2018 and didn't see an increase again until 2025. Uh that was storm and then sewer rates have seen an annual increase of 3%. So, uh, really we're closing the bridging the gap between now and phase two, but also still bridging the gap from historical increases, uh, or lack thereof in some cases. Um, phase two, we'll look at the funding scenarios for the water treatment plant. I know we met with the finance committee. You know, the the big ballpark numbers now are either 15 million or 30 million. That will evolve uh, as we know more and we'll develop those scenarios accordingly. Uh, we'll also be looking at franchise fees. We made some assumptions on franchise fees here, but uh we do think that that is a tool to gain additional revenue as well and looking at the frequency and about how much those are increased as well in the future. Um and then really we'll finalize the updated financial management plan and rate study with the water treatment plan funded in it. Um and then you'll have a plan going forward to set rates for you know arguably the next six or seven years. So uh next slide. Uh so just to remind you the all the funds here listed were were in the uh the work we did last year for the financial management plan and rate study. You'll see the five uh funds crossed off there on the right. Those are not part of the update. So working with uh city staff uh we felt the work that was done through those five funds was really sufficient to to set the path going forward. So our focus were on those on the left and tonight our focus is solely on the water and sewer funds. So uh some of the assumptions. So first one here um if you recall we did this rate study in 2024. When we did the rate study we looked at all the usage data so we could look at your tiers. Uh the council approved new tiers in 2024. Uh to do that we look at the last full year of water consumption to really give us a benchmark. And so we did that in 2024. That last full year was 2023. Um, I'm not a weather person, but you know, looking back, 2023 was a pretty dry year. 2024 and so far 2025 are pretty wet years. So, we really we we try to rightsize the consumption so we're using the right projected water consumption going forward as that's really driving all of the fees collected for water and sewer specifically. Um, so in our previous study, we we were realizing that we were having a pretty wet year in 24. So, we actually only used 95% of the 2023 consumption in our model. uh we've now reduced that to 90% as we continue to see this trend in 2025. So give you a little background. Um in 2025 through September of this year uh the consumption is 86% of that same time frame in 2023. Um we set it at 90% um because really the last uh quarter or four months of the year is largely unimpacted by um the rain. So in October uh to December 2024 that was 107% compared to 2023. So we actually saw an increase in 2024 even though it was a wetter year. So uh felt comfortable landing at the 90% uh for the the assumptions we built into this model. Uh and going forward uh no change in our increase in expenses in CIP inflation. We're still setting that annually at 4%. Uh the Met Council charge is another very significant charge. uh that's in the sewer fund and if my memory serves me correctly that's in the 60% of your total operating cost for sewer is one charge from the Met Council that is out of the city's control. Um our previous model assumed a annual 7% increase. Um and there's there's a two two-year lag with the Met Council. So they're looking two years back and how uh how much you used uh how much how much water flowed through their system um for sewer treatment. And so, you know, in 2026, you actually got hit with a 16.6% increase in your MET council charge. 2025 it was 7.6%, 2024 was 2.3%. Um, not only are they looking at uh your your inflow infiltration, they're looking at all the other communities that are a part of that system as well. So, you you know, depending on how the other communities are doing, and they also have their own individual operating budget to set too. So, there are a lot of determining factors there that are out of the city's control. Uh we did in this case increase our assumption by 8% to to 8% instead of 7%. So just a 1% increase annually. Um but to give you a perspective on dollars that's a 1 $1.3 million more in expenses from 2026 to 2023 just by increasing that assumption 1% annually. So uh a pretty substantial number there. Uh some of our other assumptions here, we do have all the capital projects uh with the exception of the water treatment plan incorporated in this phase one model. Uh so that will be part of phase two. Uh we're still having the storm water projects uh funded by the capital improvement fund which is uh largely funded by a tax levy. Um we continue to look are continuing to project a 5% annual increase in gas and electric franchise fees annually. Again, we're going to look at that more detail in phase two. to see if it's the right frequencies to do it annually and maybe there's a uh you know a bigger a bigger bite that can be taken maybe semianually but we're going to look at that in phase two and see where we can potentially draw up some additional revenue from that source as well. Um and one minor change we uh shifted the community investment fund liquor transfer to the water fund in 2026. So a minor $60,000 shift of revenue there. So so let's talk about what's changed since the last time uh we were here presenting [clears throat] um capital improvement plan. So just a just a year ago, we had a capital improvement plan. We've now gotten an updated plan. Um the total change uh we see in the water, sewer, and capital improvement funds um is a well, it's 5.6 million and then we have a 5.6 million more in capital and water and sewer and about a million dollars less in the capital improvement fund. Uh with the majority of the water and sewer increase happening in these first two years. So 3.4 million of that 5.6 6 million increase occurs in 26 and 27 for water and sewer. Um some new projects that are really the large the largest part of that $5.6 million increase. Uh the water meter replacement is a $2 million project and some sewer force mains uh at 1.3 million. The additional increases we saw in the water and sewer funds were just the same projects. They're now more expensive. So um so even more than the the 4% inflation we have built in annually. Uh and actually cap the capital improvement fund saw a slight decrease in project costs. So uh a benefit there. [snorts] Um so we obviously have more costs in the water and sewer fund uh strictly from capital and the Met Council as we mentioned. Um so how do we going to how are we going to fund those uh and address those additional costs? Well, you need additional revenues. So we we in this plan shifted the gas and electric franchise fees to the water and sewer funds 50% each. uh those were 100% in the general fund and those are now 100% in water and sewer split evenly. Um and you'll see the really the cumulative total of what those revenues mean is 2.75 million additional in each of those funds. Um you know uh it would also be um noticeable at this point that you know we have $5.5 million in total franchise fee revenue that was in the general fund that's no longer in the general fund. So how are we going to uh fix that as well? So we'll talk about that here in a couple slides. I think the next slide is the bonding one, Jesse. Uh so some other additional revenues and this does align with um what Noah had just mentioned about the the debt plan. Um and we have your uh the last debt being issued in 2029 as he mentioned. Um and so we do have an additional $2.4 million more in debt being issued in this plan than we did have in the previous plan. Um but we actually shortened the uh the length of time you'd be issuing debt by one year into 2029. So um some minor some the increases are you know uh6 million in water 1.1 million in sewer and 7 million in the capital improvement fund uh to total the 2.4 million total in more debt issued for this plan. So those are some additional revenue sources. Um and then to touch on the tax levy as I mentioned we the franchise fees moved excuse me out of the general fund into the water and sewer funds. um a variety of ways we we really managed that. We we shifted around some of the where the debt was issued uh in the capital improvement fund. Uh we were able to shift some levy back into the general fund um especially with the decrease in project costs in the capital improvement fund. So, um they certainly aren't the same, but we do feel like they're still at a projected reasonable amount and u we'd come back with phase 2 with additional information here as well as we have additional uh funding needed for the water treatment plan. So, um our 2026 levy uh is still at that 6% as preliminary prelimin preliminarily approved in September. Uh and the updated plan looking at slightly higher increases in 27 and 28 at 8% and 7.7%. Uh, I do want to note specifically in 2027, uh, the Metro Planes TIF District descertifies next year. Uh, when you descertify TIFF district, that tax capacity comes back on the books the following year. Um, so that 8% will feel like a 5% increase to residents as you add that additional capacity from that increment tiff district that you did not have previously. U, that is it on the levies. These are familiar slides here that we had shown before. Uh so just to revisit really where the water fund is. Uh if you recall really the water fund has negative cash and has been um uh really kept stable through inner fund loans. Uh we do get the city out of the hole in four years. The same year we were getting you out of the hole in the water fund in the previous plan. Uh in 2029 is the last year of debt issuance. um really were able to get out of the hole in four years with the $288,000 of annual reallocation of franchise fees and the continued $165,000 annual transfer from the liquor fund through 2029. [snorts] Um same graph for the sewer fund. Um sewer has had positive cash uh and they have been um really supporting the water fund to keep them at zero or stable with their negative cash balances. So, um, as the was just presented prior to me, the issuance of the 2026 debt, a big portion of that is going to the sewer fund, uh, to fund new CIP projects and to support cash flow for a vacuum truck replacement in 27. Uh, in this fund, we have no debt plan beyond that issuance in 2026 that Noah had just brought up. Um, some spikes here to notice. 2024 and 2026 are the only debt issuances you're seeing here on this graph. Um in 2026 you have a significant equipment replacement which is why your target cash is higher. Um in 2028 lift station capital project again draw bringing that blue bar up higher. Um and if you recall I believe it's $350 or $360,000 of tax levy support is going to the sewer fund right now to pay for existing debt. Uh that tax levy is no longer needed in 2031 which is consistent with the previous plan we presented as well. So, [snorts] so some user impacts of uh the proposed 2026 rates here. Um you'll see here we have three different residential properties um identified as low, medium and and high volume users. So an 8,000galon user, a 14,000gallon user, and a 20,000gallon user. And this includes all five of the utilities the city bills for for water, sewer, recycling, street lighting, and storm. Um, so the low volume user projected to go up about $28 a quarter. The medium volume user about $37 a quarter. And the uh high volume residential bill would go up about $49 a quarter. One thing I do want to call out here before we get to the next slide, which has multif family, is you look at your low volume user in 2026 for all their utilities, they're paying $298.86, or I'll just call that around $300 per quarter. Uh, I just want to call that out here because I I often compare the low volume user to a multifamily unit and how much they're paying to give you a kind of a comparable there. Um, and then before we move on to the other side, the the other thing I have noted here, the the state has a safe safe drinking water fee that is again out of the city's control. Um, it's passed on to the residents, the city collects it and they turn it over and pay it to the state. Um, we're seeing a substantial increase in that water fee this year. Again, this is coming from the state level that they're increasing that uh 57% which is a large percent um or in in dollars it's not that significant $138 per quarter but um it is larger than normal. So thought that was important to call out as well. Um as I noted on the multi or on the the low volume residential user, they're paying about $300 per quarter. uh your quarterly low volume multif family user is paying $295 a quarter. So really aligning with that low volume uh single family residential you user. Um and you'll notice here we have the same type of structure, a low, medium, and high volume multif family property bill. Um you will notice the although the low volume multif family bill is 40,000 gallons, they only have four units to spread that across. So, which is why you're seeing their per unit cost be higher than your medium and high volume user because there are more units to spread across within those properties. But those are proposed to increase um about $115, $292, and $2,700 per quarter for those three different properties. [snorts] Uh the last user group here is our commercial properties. again small, medium and large. Uh the these are built monthly. So we do have the per month increase included there, but then also have added the per quarter increase. This is these are the only property classes uh still build monthly if I recall correctly. So your low volume commercial is going up about $87. Your monthly uh your medium commercials $256 per quarter and your large commercial is $661 per quarter. >> [snorts] >> So then to touch on the percentage of rate increases and then off to the far right there I have um shown you the impact of these water and sewer increases in a dollar amount for the low volume user the 8,000galon user. Um there are only two numbers that have changed since we last presented this. uh with the shifting of our franchise fees to cover the additional capital slightly higher um debt issuance amounts, we were able to keep the recommended rate increases the same as we did in the previous model with the exception of 2030 and 2031. Uh we actually brought those down 2%. So, you're getting back to your 3% annual increases in 2030, which is what what sewer was increasing annually. And at least from our our discussions in last year was kind of the goal for uh the city council to get those residential increases to about the inflation area or 3% annual increase for the utility funds. Um [snorts] this will change when the water treatment plan is incorporated. There's no no doubt that that will occur uh as we have to fund either 15 million or $30 million additionally um out of the water fund. So, uh further information to come there um and also be looking at, you know, again at the franchise fees and what we can do with additional revenue sources there. [snorts] Next one kind of just to to outline our current versus proposed rates here. Uh I don't really have a lot to speak to here, but just to give you uh just to give you the updated table of what the different tiers and rates will be um for your different property classes. All right. Um uh second to last slide here, our community comparison. So just comparing yourselves to your to your neighbors. So the far the two on the far left there are is mound currently this year and uh the second one is mound proposed for 2026. This one does only include storm sewer and water as recycling and street lighting aren't build in all these other communities as consistently. So uh it's not fair to include those in some and not in others. Um but if you do look at your um proposed 2026, you'll see the straight orange line across there and about the middle of the graph. that is the average bill across all these communities um in 2025. So recognizing that all these other communities will also have 2026 bill increases. I do think it's a fair assumption to make that you'll be at or below the average of these communities uh once they do set their new 2026 rates. So just to give you a perspective of where you align with the surrounding communities. >> I feel like you should just we should just say that like three more times. [laughter] Um just to reiterate next steps, these are the you know the shortened timeline that I showed on the first slide here. So uh we'd be reviewing the uh updated financial management plan with the water treatment plan scenarios with the finance committee in January. Uh back here with this group in March to present those as well. Uh we'll know more about the state bonding in June. uh and then be looking to finalize this plan in July and August of next year to inform your 2027 rate setting and beyond. So that is all I have prepared here today. So >> does council have any questions? >> I do. Yeah. >> Um, thank you for the [clears throat] I mean this presentation is awesome and I think this has been like probably one of the most critical or more important projects that we've stuck to that is going to eventually be very very successful. But the fran the eventually the sewer fund coming off the tax levy. Is there any like downside to um so the franchise fee instead of going into the general fund it goes into water and sewer does it go to the general fund first and then get dispersed to those funds or is it do does it go directly to those funds? Are we losing are we creating anything that's more restrictive or less restrictive by doing it that way? >> Uh no you you have uh full ability to do what you'd like with your franchise fees and there's no need to pass them through the general fund. they can get recorded directly into those utility funds. >> Okay. >> Yep. >> Okay. All right. I think that was really just my only question because that was just one of the changes. >> Yeah. >> Do do you want to go back to page 3032? So when I when I first put my name in to run for council, I said I want to lower the water bills. and and put in uh fixed the crossing >> crossing and the crossing. We got one out of two. [laughter] >> Um yeah, and then of course manganesees, right? And you know, we don't even have a treatment plant. We just pull it right from the ground. And [clears throat] then, you know, once I start, you know, you get here and then you start digging through all the, you know, you said we storm went down by 90%. Right. Right. And then we finally went up, you know, increased the rates in 2025. But what was that? 2017, 18 or something like that when we >> 18 they went down 90%. >> 90%. >> Yep. And to like $3 a quarter or something if I'm remembering correctly. Somewhere in that ballpark. So, >> but that's the those are the years that got us here. That's >> because it was so artificially low. It wasn't presented ever properly. We all knew that as residents. >> Yes. >> That the bottom was going to fall out. still closing that gap with these with these >> and I think thank you for bringing that up, mayor, because I think it's important for the residents to understand that >> it took a long time to get us here and we're we were kind of elected to get us out of this mess that was left with us and it was really the years of 2015 through 2018, wasn't it Noah? >> So, Storm was cut in 2018. It wasn't until 2023 that the average utility payer was paying more than they were in 2017. So that was the year. >> Right. >> And that's what was keeping us thinking, wow, this is great. Nothing's going up. But in the meantime, we were falling. >> You saw your orange, your orange bar here. Right. >> Right. Right. So, thanks. I think it's important for the residents. >> Absolutely. Yeah. >> Yeah. We weren't even keeping up with inflation, let alone >> anything else. So, if you if you look at it's kind of hard to see, but 2022, you can see 2023, we were when we first all took that hard vote and said we're going to finally raise rates for the first time in how many years, right? Uh then 24 really, I mean, we're just holding ground. 25 start making a lot of progress. You know, next year we're going to make even more if we pass this tonight. I mean, the whole point is like we were saying with bonding, right? you know, creating this debt. We we have to there's no way to float oursel if we don't do this. Now, this is, you know, the raising the rate part that covers the other side of it. So, you know, we'll see who's here, you know, in a couple years, you know, if it's August or not, and they stick to this plan or not, but at least I can go, hey, this was our plan. We're sticking to it. >> And so far so good, you know, two years into it. But um you know >> that's why I think it's important that we really make sure um as everyone said throughout the evening that there's really clear documentation >> as to why we did these things because this was really bold steps. >> Yeah. >> On our part to get us on the right road, >> right? >> And we don't want to lose that. >> And the funny thing is, I mean, we could we could just say, "Well, I don't want to raise rates." And you know, I mean, we get the emails, we get the calls, we see the posts, you know, we we could we'd be way more in the hole. And if if we didn't do what we did two years ago, but plus if we don't do what we're what we were probably going to do tonight, it it's you got to get out of the hole. You got to pay off your debt eventually. And you can't just keep going negative. >> So, yes, >> we ripped the band-aid off and it was ugly. And we heard, >> you know, from people, but not as many residents as I expected to hear from, honestly. Right. >> Which is a good thing. >> And and I think uh Leila, we should you know talk about this again in the newsletter. >> Um maybe even just bring this you know the water the sewer the store show these slides literally and >> we do want to go to historical rate slide that's at the very end after the >> and then show that too. Yeah that's >> we should have a whole I did include this at the end and include in the packet. It's something we presented at the >> the last year. So um >> this whole packet should be on the website too for people to read. >> Yeah. And you're welcome. Oh, never mind. It's not there. It was It was in the PowerPoint. Um, I did have a table of the historical rate increases from 28 to 24, which I know and Jesse have. So, they could if you wanted to. >> Well, those are great to look >> publish it. So, that's a 2018 to 2024 looking at what you did with rate increases and >> you see the 90% decrease in storm in 2018 and then zeros for the next >> eight years. So, >> right. And I think that'd be powerful [clears throat] uh Leila to work with Noah to get that slide to and you know maybe we do a whole you know one one page of you know showing I'm visual so like these charts actually tell a story better than maybe we go farther back you know on that that other 20 32 page that we had. Um maybe we show 2017, right? And where we were at that point, >> you know, all the way through where we're trying to go >> because 2018, it'd be nice to see 2017 and how it stayed the same for >> three, four years. >> We have that in the budget of the average dating back to 2017 >> and then we analyze the rate increases every year from that point as kind of a >> a transition, shall we say, of that. So that'll be spelled out in the budget as well. greats as well. >> I'd like to point out something on page 3032 that you were just on and I I know I'm the only one that brings this up every year and I I need reassurance that I just read an article last week. In fact, that that's what made me think of this. Um, you know, like we have like I bring up in the years I want to be mindful I I circle this because of the amount of money we get comfortable with transferring from the liquor store. And you know, here's what I wrote down from the article I read. Um, and first of all, I think we need to be mindful of the declining liquor clients. And this is no fault of Ron because he runs an amazing liquor store and has benefited the city of Mound tremendously. But this was the great article. Uh, because of Gen Z and young millennials, drinking declined. Drinking declined. And it's going to be trending. they forecast for several years. So that that means a lot to us and how we allocate the money from the liquor store and I'm just curious as I've asked every year do we have any kind of a a plan you know in these till 2029 that we're allocating 165,000. You know what if our liquor sales continue to decline because of this generational gap? Where are we going to get the money? This is what concerns me and I I never seem to get an answer. >> So management plan, we lowered it from 360 to 300,000 starting in 27 to respond to some of those declining revenues. I am confident throughout that plan that $300,000. We are going to be able to cash flow that or not reduce the cash balance within the liquor fund significantly enough. So, you still feel that 165,000 through 2029 will be doable? >> I still feel 300,000 from 27 to 2033 >> is doable, but we have to review every year, right? The bottom keeps dropping out. I believe he was down 8%. >> Mhm. >> The fall has shifted some to eat away into that negative decrease year-over-year. I would like to see all the cash flows come in this year as well, but we did adjust in the financial management plan to remove it down 60,000 which is significant. There is a cash balance within the liquor fund that helps the negative cash deficits we have in the other enterprise funds that we have to maintain. We can't just grab all of that. But as we go on the years and that water fund cash comes up, we can bring that liquor fund cash down and keep the transfers going for rate stabilization. But that'll have to play out as it Okay. >> Yeah, because the building maintenance fund gets the other Is that right? Or >> the street maintenance gets the street water gets gets the other the other portion of that $300,000. So, >> um but yes, what to your point, we're seeing this in other communities, too. This is not an anomaly with liquor. >> Um >> consumption's changing to other things >> also sold at liquor stores. So, >> so that may that may shift our THC. >> They may that may shift the model. >> THC is coming up. our THC sales are up and >> oh yeah >> and the nice thing too is on our finance committee we have someone that runs a liquor store. [laughter] >> So we did talk about that's part of why we moved it down. Um I don't know if you want to say anything. Yeah, I mean I had asked the same question as council member Mccaneini to Noah about like the and he had mentioned the fund reserve balance like over time it will be able to sustain for a while but it's provided nothing just drastically keeps changing you know >> but um >> it's a whole generation of people that I guess have chosen health or like you said other means of whooping it up >> and it depends on what you know article it's like oh it's cyclical it's going to be or no it's forever you know people things are aging out or they're not. But >> I mean, it's definitely something to look at. But >> like you said, it's nothing on our operation. Our operation is great. It's just >> in the article that I [clears throat] had seen was saying municipal liquor store sales are down because, >> you know, younger generations aren't drinking as much and it's really it's all liquor stores, you know. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Well, I'm glad you talk about that in your budget meetings because it's important. couple years ago, I wanted to >> sell the liquor store. >> Yeah. I wanted to move on and um >> just, you know, get out of the business, right? >> Um and then I think after that, then we added Did we add Sundays or is that >> a while? Yeah, that was like 17. >> We're talking about the hours and then well us, right? We're talking about the hours and >> with Jesse, too. And you know, if we extend a little bit here, I mean, we're close at eight. >> I know. well aware of it, >> right? [laughter] >> I don't drink, but I just know I know many people that complain about how they complain all the time. People pull up and we're doing dark clothes. >> We need to talk about that again. >> Um I mean, Friday, Saturday, should we go open to at least 9 cuz you go over to me? Uh >> well, they just go down to MGM. >> They go to MGM and they're getting all the cash >> or they go out to St. Bonnie, that's a popular one, too. >> Yeah. Anyway, uh so again, point of this is yes, it's you know, we're getting out of the hole. Um and finally, you know, finally making some progress and should see some more progress. But you it's also like, you know, I know us five will be here for next year, but you know, after that, I hope whoever is here, hopefully it's us or there's other people, but >> I hope they stick to the plan because, you know, they can screw it all up, I guess, overnight. But if they don't want to do it, they don't have to. So, >> well, you can you can feel all of us can rest assured that we've done everything we can >> to to rip this band-aid out and make it as painful as possible to pay it off as soon as possible. >> Right. I think the argument is ongoing. It's like if we had only done this, you know, 10 years earlier, >> you know, the shape we could be in. Correct. You know, >> but you know, that brings up too, and Matt's gone, but Noah knows this. You explained it to me the other day that the secularness of the streets and fixing the streets, there was no strategy in place for years. They were just >> money grabbing to pay to pay for all that. So, >> you know, like in all things, we're getting a lot better at strate making sage strategy decisions that will help us in the future. it again. As a resident, I like knowing that no, there was no plan in place for for streets back, you know, 20 years ago, but we were having to find a way to pay for them >> to keep them. >> If there's any other way we could do this, we would lower the water bill rates. Our point is we can't. So, if you're hearing this later, >> well, it's going to be >> we're doing the hard thing we have to do. We have to get out of that eventually. Can't keep going in the hole. Well, it's going to be profound because every single tax and fee is going up. So, we're And that's why I like that you showed that breakdown of the dollar. >> Yeah. >> But it'd be nice to break it down even more to show >> from where their money grabbing from us from every walk in life. It'd be nice to see that >> so they don't just get mad at Mound for >> at the city. Yeah. Everything in life is >> Everything in life is going up up up. Yes. >> All right. Well, if there's no further uh is it 3043 the resolution? >> It is. I did you want to hear or have any discussion on the fee schedule itself or anything or >> Sure. I So that was just the presentation on >> just the utility side of things. No one's following up. >> So then the fee schedule as a whole >> do we want to look at that then? So, if I'm correct, the fee schedule as a whole is we're just really voting on a resolution saying that we're accepting >> like I saw all the underlying the changes are what we just went over. >> Yeah. >> The vast majority of the changes utility rates. >> Yeah. >> So, >> on the back that's all the utility everything. >> So, is there any notables that you want to call out or not? >> I mean, there's nothing significant um unless >> we can go through the changes. The changes will be a strike out and an underline. Strike out is meaning we're removing the charge or changing it. Underline is the new charge. >> Go to the next page. >> All there's not a lot of changes this year. >> Not a lot of changes been reviewed by the department heads and staff. >> Didn't we find too that like our franchise fees were kind of right in the middle? Sorry, I'm not like trying [snorts] to throw something out of left field, but yeah, we were like kind of in the middle. >> I believe Burnsville is the the high of $8 per residential, but if it's not a percentage based, >> so 78 101 uh Las Lake slips multiple so that we we're prorating that. >> Yep. We're increasing that $200. >> Yeah. >> And then keep going down and see if there's any >> What was that? The last leg slips >> rental fee. Yeah, they went from 1300 to 1500. >> Parks and racks cancellations. >> Shame on us. >> No. >> And then >> a couple years ago, we changed a lot. >> We did. And that's it's kind of a cycle of every two years when you >> So the water meters will change every year because we're just charge at cost. >> We need to. >> So whatever that amount, we just adjust to that. And then there's the utility rates that you >> It's a pretty great amenity that Kyle presented here. >> Yeah. Yeah, I think mine goes up 50 bucks every year. >> And we kind of knew this last year when we discussed the raise in rates. This is just showing us the actual final number. >> Yep. This is what Kyle had presented at last year as well. >> What the rates would be and he got us to that point. Again, we just need to approve it for 26. >> We always adopt the fee schedule at the meeting before we adopt the budget, right? >> Is that kind of just how >> it's one of the last two meetings of the year. It'll depend kind of how things flow. It worked flowed this way because we had Kyle here to present utility rates. So, it made sense to do it the meeting before. >> Question fees for >> the fire department. Wasn't our attorney? Weren't you going to draft some new fees for us to um for the frequent flyer ballers? >> That'll need to come in the form of an ordinance which the chief actually just was pulling the other day. Yeah, I we had that uh work session. I talked to the chief. I gave him some examples. He said, "Thank you. This is very helpful." >> And I I think [laughter] I think so. I think he is probably processing it. >> Oh. >> Um Okay. >> And um maybe at a certain point then we'll reconnect and >> so we don't need to worry about that. >> Yeah. that what that had to do with >> um it was looking at excessive calls but really looking at the at the issues with liposis, >> right? >> I think that's what our discussion was and that. So >> he has the materials that I sent over to him. >> Okay. >> All right. So >> 3043 if someone wants to make a motion for this resolution. >> I can do that. Um, making a motion for a resolution. >> Make a motion to approve. >> I make a motion to approve resolution number 25-92. Um, adopting the fee schedule for 2026. >> All right. Got a motion. Can I get a second? >> Second. >> Any other discussion? All those in favor, please say I. >> I. >> I. Those opposed. All right, that passes. >> All right. Num number 12, we got uh Thanks, Kyle. >> Yeah. Thanks. >> Thank you. >> Happy Thanksgiving. Yeah, you too. >> Thanks, Noah. >> Thank you, guys. >> Thank you, Noah. Thanks. >> You're going to miss the best part. [laughter] >> Sometimes Sometimes this goes another hour. >> All right, Council Member Pew. >> Oh, >> he's like, "Yeah, >> well, I made it. I'm here. >> You're here. I'm very glad." >> Prayer is scarf is >> I can't believe you're at the meeting tonight. >> I thought you said you were going to be up. >> Well, I was and I and I've been sleeping most of the time. >> Okay. And so >> good, >> you know, I just sleep and rest and sleep and rest and >> eat. >> I've had lots of great caregivers. One one of my former students brought me a week's worth of food. >> Oh, wow. That's great. >> She pre-cooked all these meals for me and stuff and other people came and took me out walking and >> That's great. >> So, >> well, we missed you at the tree lighting. >> Yeah, I know. How was it? >> And you and I have been together at that tree lighting for the last three years. >> Yeah. you're my you're my tree. [laughter] >> So, I we're happy to hear that you're >> recuperating and up and in the saddle again. >> Yeah. >> Thank you. >> Um All right. Uh Council Me. >> Yes. I have a few items. Um, >> well, I guess like all of us, our appreciation to the WCC and the >> public works for just I mean, they just knocked it out of the park. It was just fantastic. It was such a warm and cozy and fabulous evening. So, thank you to them. >> Um, and then a reminder for the free Thanksgiving meal at the Legion on Thursday from noon to 4. This event is um made possible by the donations and help from lots of local groups and businesses and of course many volunteers. And I was over there today. I donate our turkey because my oven just happened to break. And I'm like, really? You're kidding. >> So they took my turkey and they said they're expecting to serve 600 people this year. >> Wow. >> So that's gigantic. >> So it's you can you can donate, >> right? >> Yeah. and the food shelf you can call to get it on their um you know to-do list to help >> to help clean or set up or what have you. So, >> it's a it's a really great it's a really great um event. >> And then this it's going to be shopping Christmas nirvana this weekend in Mount. We've got the Gillespie Center and the Langden open for their holiday markets for a week starting Saturday the 1st >> through the week. And then Mama's Happy is back doing round two. Um, and they are in business Monday, December 1st or no, online. It's they're in business the December 4th through the 6, just a couple days. But they're they're back with a whole bunch of great stuff. So, >> I'm going to say have fun shopping local and mound at these great venues. And in closing, happy Thanksgiving to everybody. >> All right. Counselano. >> Um, I've just got a few things and got some poorly organized thoughts here. I'm kind of all over the board, but I had tried to sign up for Rave again the last time we talked about it because I did a long time ago and I I just don't get the updates. >> Do we even have Rave anymore? >> Well, the the link that's on our website, I went to sign up for it and it's not I don't know. It doesn't really let you. >> It's on my list of things to look into. I don't really understand. >> Okay. I was fully expecting you to just like show me how like I just I thought I would just did it wrong. >> Have you signed up for the e notify which is replacing rave? >> It's called e notify and then you can sign up for whatever you want. News highlights >> do them all separately. >> Yes, you can pick and choose whatever you want to get notified on. >> Okay. And then rave isn't going away. It's just going to be >> I think it I think the plan was to phase that out. We left it on for a little while while we transitioned into the new, >> you know, news. >> Okay. >> Um, >> I'll sign up for all of them. >> Okay. [laughter] >> It's on the same page, council member. >> So, just go to eify and then >> and I was going to do that in to try to figure it's a mystery to me. >> Okay. Cuz I was after I did that, I was like, okay, I need to go sign up for all these separately, but I didn't know if it was like either or or both. So, >> hoping I'm not the only one that just, you know, couldn't figure that out. But >> um and then I kind of just I wanted to um ask what all of your opinion was for like 2026 if we are all on the same page about adding >> like do we want to add a part-time role for code enforcement or how do we kind of want to I feel like we keep not really making a final decision to really >> I feel like we should talk about that in our priorities. >> Yeah. >> Um meeting and aren't we having a workshop coming up with that? When [clears throat] when is that mayor? >> And isn't that >> isn't usually the last meeting of the year or the first in >> probably I mean really any whatever >> we should probably get it on the books. I've got a whole list of priorities direct remember last year we fully talked about how we want to approach them advancing them here for that. I mean, I I think that's a part of a bigger conversation, but I agree with that, but I think it should be part of a larger discussion in the planning priorities list meeting. >> Okay. Okay. So, I think we're kind of on the same page there. But, >> I just talked to Jesse about that the other day, too. I said, "Well, what's the update?" >> Yeah. So would you guys mind expounding more on like that email you sent me about what you guys kind of were I know it's super like this week kind of thing but >> well so in the interest of not saying anything I'm not totally prepared to talk on I was going to ask the finance committee about some availability like maybe Wednesday morning next week because Thursday of next week the the final budget will be in the packet and we've been putting our heads together since two weeks ago um regarding how to tackle code enforcement and how that sort of plays in with our planning department and the budget as a whole. So, um we have a meeting tomorrow with a consultant to sort of start exploring some options that maybe supplement or maybe replace some of this possible part-time stuff. And we also want to talk to the finance committee uh just about some budget items that may already be in maybe already be able to fit in the 26 budget that can address this in a way that um I believe will get us to where the council sort of that discussion was two weeks ago. Um so thank you for bringing it up. [laughter] >> Sorry. And I was going to send an email uh tonight or tomorrow morning, but we were gonna kind of shoot for Wednesday morning >> um just to have a couple days after the long weekend to gather our thoughts >> and to give us a day before the packet goes out so in case we have some incredible light bulb moment, we don't have to scramble at a meeting or something. I guess I just wanted to bring it up because it was something that I had just asked you about and that I wanted everyone else to hear was like I think it's good that there are options if it's like a part-time city role or something that we outsource, you know, like we have a few different ways to tackle it, which that's what it sounds like. >> Oh, yeah. >> Cool. >> Does that work for you uh that day? >> What day? >> Wednesday. >> Wednesday morning. We could do teams if that works. >> Yeah. >> Whatever you guys want. Um, >> not tomorrow. >> No, not tomorrow. That's what I thought. >> Are are you able to swing by before? >> I can do either. >> Let's just do it in person at 7:30. >> 7:30. >> Thanks. >> All right. On the calendar. >> That's all I had. I just wanted to >> hear it. >> All right. Uh, council her. Um, I don't really have any big updates other than I guess to say some of the same things everybody else has said. Christmas or the holiday lighting event um was very wellreceived. And I mean I I heard a lot of people overheard a lot of people talking and they were very pleased with what they um were experiencing. So I think kudos to you know everyone that worked hard to put that together. Um, obviously public works did a lot of labor intensive work. Um, and um, the West Honka WCC, >> I always have a hard time with that. WCC >> um, I was talking with some of them um, during the event and there's some things that they want to improve upon and things that they want to do better and I think a lot of that, you know, are things that we obviously can help contribute to. >> Well, the park was built for events. set up around it. Looks awesome. >> Extra. >> Yeah. I mean, just things like I know I was talking to Dustin. Um the fire pits that we're borrowing, they were very smoky that night. >> And they we're talking about ways to maybe mitigate some of that, including I think maybe looking into purchasing few of our own. So, I think they're just kind of exploring that idea right now at this point. Um [clears throat] I don't think it's a formal initiative. >> I think we should have a movie night. >> Yeah. down down there, you know. >> Yeah. >> Um what's Kelly McCullen's movie? >> Home Alone. >> Home Alone. You should end >> or the Hallmark Channel. Predictable. Predictable ending. >> Hallmark. Yes. They always kiss at the end. >> There's always a [laughter] dog, >> right? So, yeah, there's a lot of ideas I think floating around. So, it'll be interesting to see how that develops >> over the next 12 months. >> Well, it's been great for the first 42 >> years. So I think it went really well >> and and there have been so many changes over all these years with how it >> is presented. So it's fun that things get mixed up every now and then. This has been just great >> and all the improvements down at Lost Lake Lakes Common just >> look just so fantastic and they really helped people, you know, meandering around with all the final. It was beautiful. >> Um, anything else? >> Nope, that's all I've got. So yeah, just to expound on that, uh remember we said we want to go bigger and better, right? And that was one of our priority lists for this year, which um congrats, we did it. [laughter] >> So, you know, we didn't [clears throat] do much work, but >> um and then also uh you know, remember putting Santa down down the channel a little bit, right? >> That worked really. >> That was just a good idea. And then everybody could go in that line there and everybody could go over here on the other side. So, >> it just worked out great. I was just like impressed 100%. If we got more vendors next year, if people wanted to >> be a vendor, that'd be awesome. I mean, even support your own >> I know uh you know like State Farm or you know farmers or Jones, you know, whoever. >> Well, that nativity scene was just so I mean those kids were just so animated, just so great. That was really a nice addition. So when I kind of left there and I think I was talking to Jesse and Leila when we were walking out and you know in my brain I was like you know we got to go bigger. We got to go we got to do the light the light ch you know the tunnel thing and we kind of did that. It's like I don't know I don't know how we do it better. So >> I just like if we did that again you >> Oh you don't need [clears throat] to up it auntie up >> I just like to go bigger better. It's going to be just naturally because more people and kids grow and we get new kids and >> yeah, >> the park will be >> a little more even finalized by then. So, it'll be just fabulous next year, too. >> Yeah, I think food is becoming a topic. >> Yeah. >> People said, "We have hot dogs. >> They ran out of hot chocolate." >> Yeah, that kind of thing. But >> it was >> all things that we can work through. >> Yeah. >> Uh let's see here. Um, we got to do uh Jesse's review next uh council. We only have one more, right? So, we'll probably kick that to like the last thing so we don't have to wait. Let the public sit here and when we go in the conference room. >> Um, what? Sorry. >> Yeah, Mayor Hull, I was hoping to catch you after the meeting to discuss the city manager's review. >> Yeah. >> Um, just because the city manager's review is typically run by the deputy city manager. um just so that manager Dixon doesn't have to hand out his own um process on doing that. >> Um and then it should occur in a [snorts] closed session following the meeting. >> Um so I just um >> I'm not sure that everyone is aware of this, but finance director Iverson has resigned. >> Um so we're >> Noah. >> Noah. >> Yes, >> Noah has resigned. >> Wow. Okay. Um, so we are in the middle of replacing that position. So have a little bit on my plate in addition to being four weeks in. So my request was to push that city manager review until January if the council's comfortable with that and then you and I can discuss how you'd like that process to move forward. >> So we do have a formal process that we have on on you'll >> didn't we sit down first and go through it last year? >> Yeah. And we're on the communications or the personnel committee too. So, um, but the goal was always to do it this last, uh, thing. Unfortunately, with the turnover, um, >> you're right. I did work with Maggie before. >> Yeah. >> Um, so it's not so awkward for you, Jesse. [laughter] >> Um, but, uh, >> yeah, thanks for reminding us on that. >> And then we would do a closed door session obviously, like I was saying, in the back in the conference room. >> Great. >> Um, is council okay pumping it to January? Yeah, I just wanted to make sure it got done on time, but >> raise and can be retroactive, too. So, I mean, that's kind of an important >> Yeah, Mayor Holt, members of the council, we we would make it retroactive should you choose to give an increase to manager Dick Chen. So, regardless of when we do it, um that just gives us a little bit of breathing room to go through that process for the first time. >> Cool. >> So, you have a few extra days to impress everybody. [laughter] You're going to be shocked. Trump off my Christmas list. [laughter] >> All right, let's connect cuz I >> Did you just tell her all the stuff I asked you for? >> Yeah, we talking and then >> just send me all that stuff. >> Uh let's see here. And then for January, since it's already November, do we want to start getting some dates on the calendar for our workshop? Um when we're talking about um priorities and stuff, I don't think an hour is going to be long enough. So I think we need to pick another day. Sorry. >> You mean two nights >> or two workshops? >> Uh I don't think one hour before a meeting is going to be enough. >> Oh, I see. >> So a little bit. >> So are you suggesting two meetings? Two workshops prior or two different? >> No, he's talking about one workshop on another day >> on a separate night versus two one-hour workshops. >> Yeah. Okay. I just wanted I think one of these years we just sat here, right? And then we just kind of like I mean it might take two hours. I I don't know. But um I want remember what happened that one year where I kind of went through all my stuff and I was like two hours in. I was like who else got >> stuff? That was your first year as mayor. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> I think I had a lot of stuff. >> Yeah, you did. You had a big big list. >> So maybe I'll come with a smaller list then. >> And I was first time council member. I'm like what are we t Huh? I come in here with nothing on my sheet. >> Right. So I I'd like to pick another I mean, we could do a six o'clock just some other off night, whatever works. But I think if we don't if you know, before we've done the like back and forth email thing to see what works and then it takes three months for us to get back. >> So, >> just give us a couple nights and let's do >> we just Yeah. >> Jess, do you want to just give us like >> Yeah. Otherwise, >> I mean, work with me. We got to make sure at least we'll make sure it's not a planning or any other parks or whatever night. So, probably a Monday or a Wednesday or Thursday. >> Well, if it's Mon Yeah. If it's not a Monday, I'm planning. >> Yeah. I mean, that'd be fine because even the Monday before the first council meeting >> can grab some dates and we can at the next meeting here, we can if everybody wants to come back after I send them out and check your calendars, then when we're at the meeting at in December, we can set that uh workshop if that's good for everybody. Okay. >> Okay. >> Um and then we also I think on the plan we got to do a planning joint meeting and a parks joint meeting. >> So it's going to be a busy first quarter, right? >> Um >> how many volunteers did we get by the way? Wasn't the deadline Monday? >> Or was it today? >> Yeah. Uh mayor, council members, we received seven applications so far. um all for either the planning and open space commission or the sorry the parks and open space commission or the planning commission. Um we have not received any applications from the docs commission. However, I think there may have been a bit of confusion on the new process with docs commission members. So I anticipate by the end of the week we'll have some docs commission members reapply. >> And there's two positions on >> on dock. I know >> docs. >> Yeah. and one on parks for a partial session and two on >> no one on planning. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yep. And mayor, council members, as part of the packet for next week's item, we'll provide you with the list of names. We're still working out just given the number of applicants um if we'd like to do a work session ahead of the council meeting just to give you enough time and so that we don't have a council meeting that goes >> many several hours. Um, so we're just waiting to see if those docs commission applications come in and then you should see early next week a schedule for interviews. >> You know, I should bring up really quickly, mayor, um, at the planning commission meeting the other day, um, they did suggest possibly whoever the lead in their in the commission is to be present at the >> the chair >> at at Yeah, the chair to be present at the interviews. So, I did say I would bring that up tonight. So, I'm glad you brought this up because I would have forgotten about it. Um, so it's something for us to think about. >> Um, >> like as they would have a vote or just >> Well, not I don't think they'd have a vote, would they? >> No. >> No. But and and I thought, well, it's an open meeting usually. Of course, anybody can come. >> Could you just encourage them to come? I was thinking maybe we once we discussed this >> I was going to have Sarah since it was the planning that said that maybe send it out to the it would either be Jason Baker you know he's the co-chair >> and if he so chooses but I want her to it also reiterate that well it's an open meeting but they get no vote and they wouldn't have gotten a vote prior to that shooting it over to us so >> I you know I think it's just a change that they were a little bit concerned about and wanted to be see how they could be part of it. >> And I imagine all the commissions might feel that way. I don't know. I'm assuming. >> And parks, they sort of said that um they recognize that whatever they do, it's a recommendation to this committee and u that if the board didn't want to do all the interviews, they would certainly do pre-screening at the request to the board, but they didn't. So, how many seats do we have on the planning? >> Because we lowered it, right? So, >> one and and it's a person who's been on it who's interested to and coming back. >> Okay. >> And then how many >> how many applied for it besides him? >> I I don't know. >> There was there was three people. So, four people applied for that >> for one position, but incumbent has has thrown their name in to be reappointed. >> Okay. >> Yes. So there's four for one >> and then potentially we're doing a workshop before our next meeting. >> None for parks. >> Well, not a workshop to interview >> three. We were kind of thinking that >> possibly we could if if you were to stick to your normal 15minute, you know, timelines for these interviews. You could do the planning interviews over the course of an hour, go into our meeting, then maybe do the parks interviews of backtoback towards the end of the meeting and then you could make the decision on all on both of them. I mean, we're just trying to look out for everybody's evenings because the last meeting of the year we try to get a lot done. >> Can we read the um Can you send out the interviews prior so we have some heads up to do a little research? I mean, just >> put our put our brains around who's actually going to be in front of us. >> Definitely >> informed decision, informed uh interviewing, I guess. Yeah, >> great. Thank you. >> All right. Um, anything else? I did see it was snowing out here, but I can't tell anymore now. I don't know if it's rain or snow, but great. >> All right, I'll take a motion to adjurnn. >> All right, we got a motion [clears throat] that >> a second. All right, any other discussion? >> Take 12. >> All those in favor, please say I. >> I. Those opposed. All right, we're journ