My husband's doing it. He's got to tell me. >> Okay. So, >> I I know for a fact it can be done. >> Okay. [laughter] >> Yeah. Yeah. >> [snorts] >> Thank you. >> [snorts] >> This is the most people we've had in a long time. [laughter] >> It's warm in here. >> You have your jacket on. Sorry. [laughter] >> All right. At 7 o'clock, I'm going to call this meeting to order. >> Please join me for the pledge. >> I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> All right, thank you guys all for coming. And Christie mentioned something ahead of time, but we don't get visitors all that often, and it's actually kind of a bummer how much of our work happens in a vacuum. So, I truly appreciate you all taking time out of your evenings and being here tonight. Um, let's see. Can I get a motion to approve the agenda, please? >> I'll make a motion to approve the agenda. >> Got a motion by Council Member Pchman. I'll second. Second by Council Member Conrad. Any further discussion? All those in favor say I. >> I. Oppose. Same sign. >> Motion passes. All right. um community comment. So, we're going to talk about the Mount Hope Road Trail in a little bit, but if anybody else has anything else that they want to talk about um that's unrelated to that, now would be your time. Going once, going twice. Okay, we're going to move on. Um up first, we have under presentations and reports, we have our legislative update from Representative Harter. Harter, come on up. Welcome. So, um, Representative, we talked a little bit about this in previous years when we have shared our legislative priorities. It's been like an email and you've been like, "All right, great. Good. Got him. I'm on it." Um, but we kind of wanted to try to do something a little bit different this year. And we have invited all of our kind of upstream, if you will, elected officials to come and join us so we can kind of go through the legislative priorities. um for those of you in the room because we have an audience every year we come up with I would say like five to 10 legislative priorities and that's kind of what we want to see get done um in St. Paul at the state capital. So it helps provide a little bit of direction and hopefully gives you like a feeling of what's important to us here in Carver because you have a lot of communities that you're working for. So, um, with that, um, I'm going to just kind of go through all of them at a high level. My personal pet peeve is when someone reads PowerPoint slides to me. So, I'm not going to read this document to you. I know that you're literate. Um, but the first one is not going to surprise you. It is um, our certified levy project funding. As you know, it's a $13 million project. We're still sitting at about a $3 million funding gap. Um, and we've been really proud of the work that [music] we've done and super appreciative of the help that the state capital has given us to this point, but we still need a little bit more help. So, I don't think you need to know anything more about that, right? >> Well, I'm well aware of that. And of course, you are top three priorities because many I mean, many cities in our district have have needs and they keep coming forward with more needs. >> Yeah. >> Um, but when they ask for the top three, yes, you are in the top three. >> Awesome. um to get this levy done for your residents here. That's really important. So, >> great. >> Ah, yeah. Is it on? Yep. >> Is it on? >> Um well, I appreciate that. And I know um Carver perhaps seems like a onetrick pony because we just keep coming for one singular thing. Um but it's it's that leving that's important to us. >> Um the other thing um that's important to us is the support of local decision-m. We've heard of some one-sizefits-all solutions from the state capital that we don't love in the city of Carver because we're different from Albertville, from Albert Lee, from Chaza, and even communities closer to home. So, um, we want to preserve that because respectfully, we think that we know our community best and want to preserve that right to come up with those priorities for our community. >> Right. And we we've talked about that before, too. the local local control, which is very important for for the city and for the residents that you have more say in what you do. Um, and that of course is important. That's one of my I would say it's a priority of mine because when I was a county commissioner, I mean, I people heard about that, too. How come you keep making laws that we have to follow and you don't send any money with it? I mean, everybody feels the pinch on that. So, >> we just keep working towards towards that. But, yes, I hear you on that for sure. Yes. um Minnesota paid leave exemption for cities. I know that that's a hot button topic and we could probably talk about it all night. >> What the city's policy is is that we have always had paid leave for our employees. That's part of their benefits package. That's nothing new. I don't think that this law was written for city employers. What we would be asking for is for an exemption from cities for paying into that fund because essentially as you know what we have to do is we have to tax our residents to pay for that program. So it's taxing for a tax for a program. So I'm sure you understand that >> if I may. >> Yeah absolutely. That's why we had you in we want to have a dialogue. that is I would say you know of what I hear from residents and business is true um is the paid leave program because it was well it was not very well thought out. The intention was probably good >> but it was not really thought out as well as it probably should have and it here again it's another oneizefits-all. Um there really were no exemptions for anyone. So if you have one employee you're going to be doing this program too. So, as a taxpayer, you think of how many times that you're paying for paid leave, you know, cuz you're paying it at the township level, which I'm a part of. You're paying well, here at the city, >> at the county, >> you know, and at the state. I mean, how many times do we have to pay for a program? And most companies, not all, provide a benefit plan that meets the needs of their employees. I mean, and that's what we really should do, you know, is let the cities and the businesses decide how how they want to do their benefit plan. >> For me personally, I don't think it's the role of government to tell a business whether it's city or otherwise what your benefit package should look like. I mean, we did have a bill, well, there were many bills for exemptions. I had one for agriculture cuz you know I'm an egg and you know there were other ones and the one that that came to the house floor was to delay the bill for a year to give it more time to roll out whatever the case might be. And as you if you're following along as you know that was laid on the table. Um and of course the the start date was January 1. So of course that bill won't be coming back up. [music] But uh I agree that yes, more work needs to be done on that on [music] that legislation for sure. >> Thank you. Um the next one we have and we have five so we're more than halfway there. Um is public notice requirements in newspapers >> as you know probably coming up on two years. I think it'll be like two years in [music] April. The Chaskahara folded which was our local newspaper in this area. Um, it's still a requirement that we post all of our notices in the newspapers. So now the city of Carver's official newspaper is the Waconia Patriot, which I think that there are like probably less than 100 folks in Carver that are reading that newspaper. Hopefully I'm wrong, but what I'm trying to say is is that seems like an outdated requirement. It costs the city money to post that in there. And in communities that like truly don't have a local newspaper, community newspaper, it's going somewhere and we're checking that box, but it's not fitting the intention of that legislation. So, we're not getting eyeballs on it and or the right eyeballs on it. >> So, >> okay, there again, I am on your same page. [laughter] >> Okay. >> Okay. So, this has been uh sort of a thorn in my side back from when I was county commissioner because I used to say complain. I guess you can use that word. Um you know why we have we're paying for a website. Taxpayers are paying for a website. Okay. And then here again now we're paying for uh a newspaper which in the county that I live in is on the east side of the county. Virtually everybody else doesn't get to get to see it, right? And so people miss the notices. And so the first year that I was in office as your state representative, I had um an amendment to a bill um and that one well it failed. Um [laughter] >> you win some, you lose some. >> I win some, you lose some. Uh but this year, uh the bill that I had that did pass, um has to do that if you don't have a paper of record, well then you can use our website. And some of that was based upon Scott County. So Scott County has zero newspapers. Um and and so for them the bill that passed that would benefit them because instead of having to go outside the county, they they can use their website. Now the goal would be that yes, everybody uh could be able to use their their website. But as I have learned in the legislature that it's it's little by little. So this part passed um this year. It'd be on, you know, be great if Carver could use their website, but you do have a paper of record, which is the Bakonia. You know, if they went away, then you could go ahead and use your website. So, little by little, we're going to be chipping away at that because I've already had conversations with the newspaper people and some other people that there's going to be further work um on that part. It would be great to do it all at once, but wow. I mean, when I did bring that up about just people use the website, I can tell you about the phone calls and the emails that I got from various people. So, it is something that I am committed, you know, as long as I'm your state rep, to keep working towards allowing you to save some money and use your website. It's going to be piece by piece. >> Appreciate that. >> I mean, and years ago, um, I think it passed that public works, I think, could use their website versus their paper records. So, that was the start. So we just I have learned in the legislature that's not all done and we're done. It's just piece by piece that we keep moving it because you have to get more people on board, >> you know, to see what we're going with the end goal. So >> it's a marathon and not a sprint. Right. >> That's right. And so yes, we are still working on that. But yes, that that is one of my >> my goals for sure. Yes. >> Great to hear. Um and then for the last one, support for suburban transit providers. Can I tap you on the shoulder again? So, Council Member Pchman is kind of our transit guy and knows way [clears throat] more about this than I do. >> So, the concern that we have is if you're Met Council, uh really you're looking at Southwest Transit who services us as the big buses. So, getting people to and from downtown. >> Uh that is uh that's their view of public transportation and that's fine. That's what it was for many years. Uh really what we're concerned about is how that impacts our residents for use of public transportation to get to the airport, to get to the state fair, to get to the Renaissance Festival, all of those other things that get customized to the community, our use of Southwest Prime. So there was a little discussion we had when um Senator Gruinhagen was here. uh re this would have been the last meeting uh why this is a concern and it is losing that uh customization to the suburban communities and how those communities receive public transportation. And I'll I'll end too since this is the last of our uh priorities. I'd like to know what helps you go to battle for us. Any of these priorities, what can we provide you? I know that we've come down and uh we've talked to you about the levy. I know you're well briefed on that. Uh uh our mayor testified uh with you for the need there. Uh is there anything else that we can do that we can empower you to to go and fight our initiatives? >> A lot of ammunition, but yes, do keep in contact um with what's going on. this transportation thing. This one I was not uh fully aware of until a few months ago and I had a a meeting with um I want to say the person's last name was Hansen. >> Yeah. >> Um >> Cara Hansen. >> And that was the first that I I had heard. I I said, "Well, why would you want to get rid of Southwest uh the bus station when I'm aware of so many people in the city use that?" And as far as I as far as I can see, I see you expanding services. I mean, you have the four-lane highway going out towards Norwood. They're going to be expanding. You have Watertown. I mean, I I just see further expansion. So, this idea that that we should cut that service here, no, I'm not for that at all. >> Is >> Well, I appreciate the [laughter] position. I think there's also been some concern about how funds are managed and cost and >> cost even at the leadership level. Uh, and where that may be true in one of the other municipal districts, um, Southwest Transit, uh, has one of the lowest operating costs. I would consider Southwest Transit a model of public transportation, certainly in this age, postcoid, where we're [clears throat] moving beyond big bus travel. So, I appreciate your awareness. Uh and um you'll see more about this I'm sure in 26. So continue to to um to move uh our priority forward and again if there's something we can give you that helps you tap us. >> Yes. Uh for sure and depending upon what happens with if there's a bill that somebody is proposing to eliminate south southwest I don't I don't know if that is the case but if it is then of course I'll be reaching out because we're going to need some people to come and talk about it. Um like I said I would not be in favor of decreasing the number of options that people have for transportation and for increasing the options which is better for the community. That's it. >> Well thank you. Those are our legislative priorities. I appreciate just going back and forth. If you have any other questions, feel free to ask. But this might be the time now where we'll give you the opportunity to tell us what your crystal ball is saying that the upcoming legislative session will look like. >> Well, well, uh, yes. I want to say that probably, uh, there's going to be a lot of Well, this is a policy year and there's going to be a lot of discussion on a variety of topics. Fraud of course is on my mind uh frequently because that is our tax dollars and and when we are defrauded of money and have seemingly little no way to get under control and to get our money back. I mean that's very concerning especially when you have residents uh people in the district that struggle right now to make ends meet. I mean everything is going up and then yet you expect to pay more and that just doesn't work for uh many people. So there are some bills that are being worked on uh to address that. What's in that legislation? I haven't seen the written language yet, but that will be be coming. But last session, there were some steps that were taken to mitigate some of the fraud. And that was was uh providing new staffing reporting for internal controls, uh maybe giving some more whistleblower protections, and then perhaps if fraud is suspected to stop the payments. I mean, that is is uh fantastic. But it's not a one-time mistake. It's been going on for a long time. I mean they think that it's in the neighborhood of 9 billion. I mean that's just an estimate and we don't know for sure. So that is a priority on that. And of course capital investment is a priority as well. Um but we will have to see where where that where that goes depend upon what the budget forecast looks like when it comes out in this month. Um the last one was showing that we were heading towards a looming deficit. I don't know if we still are. We'll find out um when that comes. Uh the one thing that's changing at the Capitol, which you will see when you come to visit me, is that there's going to be some changes in security. So before if you were going to come to a committee hearing to testify, you would just park, walk in, come to the room. Well, that's going to be changing. Um you'll park, you'll come in, you have to go through security, and it'll be similar to like an airport. What that's all going to look like, I haven't seen the final plans yet. They're still working on that. And then I think there's going to be some more security if you come up to my office. Or I should say come up to my cube. You've seen my cube. [laughter] >> Are you still in the temporary office? >> So yeah, there'll be some more security there. Before they had the doors open, you once you get up, you could go Well, that's going to be changing too that there'll be more uh security on that. So just be prepared um for that. And then of course um the other thing I do hear from people which we sort of alluded to in a couple of your powerpoints here is taxes and the amount of taxes that we're paying. I mean all all across the board. I mean it could be your city, it could be state, whatever that you're paying in. Uh as far as like the state in 2023, you know, we had the $18 billion surplus and of course that was spent and that wasn't enough. So we had to add on 10 9 10 billion on taxes and fees which I hear about now because some of those bills are now coming to light that people are paying you know the higher fees or taxes or whatever that that it can be. And so it would be great to uh roll some of that back. Um but we will see how that goes. In the house it's a tied 6767. So you have to get you have to compromise and get buy in on both sides. So that's the wonderful thing about having a tie in the house. And so we just keep working together to see what you know what we can do on that. But I do appreciate you reaching out to me. Everybody in the council reaches out people in the city. I get a number of emails from people in the city on a variety of issues. And I just appreciate that people do reach out and let me know their thoughts and feelings on just about everything that's happening. >> You said it's a policy year. It's a bonding year. Correct. >> The budget year last year. >> It was a budget year last year. It's mainly policy this year, but I have talked you I heard about the bonding and as you know, uh, bonding is last day, the last minute. [laughter] >> Well, that leads up to my next question. And you were great to get us on the House Capital Investment Committee's bonding tour. Boy, when was that? Septemberish that they were out here. >> They were here and you guys did a great You had a great presentation. It was great for them to see the actual levy, what's happening, so they could see, you know, visual. Um, and so I'm going to, of course, every project that I have, I'm going to get on the, you know, the meeting list so you can come back to the committee, you know, and once again, you know, talk about the needs of the city and hopefully we can get that funded. With the bill last year, I was really hopeful that at least one of the projects in our district would have gotten funded. I mean, there's a number of them and of course, uh, disappointment happens and well, our district didn't get anything funded. So, >> and nobody got anything funded because there wasn't a bonding bill. Um, what does your gut say on the likeliness of it happening this year? Again, it's a crystal ball question. >> I'm going to say it's 50/50. >> Okay. Okay. [laughter] That's not what I wanted to hear, but I appreciate your honesty. >> Well, I mean, you just you just don't know. Yeah. I mean, there are some people uh they're all for bonding, right? And then there are some people that, you know, well, they don't want to spend any money. Okay, so you have that and then I'm I'm somewhat in the middle. I'm like, yes, our projects need to be funded, but then what else is in this bill? I mean, it's just one of those things with an omnibus bill because you just don't know what's in it. >> Yeah. Awesome. >> Well, thank you so much for your time. I don't have anything else. Do you guys >> really appreciate you coming out tonight? Thank you so much. It was good seeing you. Thank you. Take care. Um, okay. We have no public hearings this evening, but we do have a consent agenda. Can I get approval on that? >> I'll make a motion to approve the consent agenda. >> Motion by council member Conrad. >> I'll second. >> Second by council member Persman. Any further discussion? >> All those in favor say I. >> I. >> I. Oppose. Same sign. >> Motion passes. All right. Um, we have one business item on the agenda this evening and it is the Mount Hope Road Tail Trail Connection. [cough] >> [clears throat] >> Mr. Mayor, >> mayor and councel this. There we go. >> And welcome to everyone that is in attendance tonight and for those watching online. So, uh, from a kind of a government nerd perspective, this is a really fun topic to be talking about because we don't have a proposed trail or a suggested or recommended. It's, as you can see, there's a a trail gap that the city council has identified or walkway gap, traditional off streetet uh walkway uh from uh Lions Park to about Casey's along Mount Hope Road. And so uh in the spirit of that uh request, staff has developed three concepts. So the council is learning about the details of these concepts. at the same time uh residents, citizens and kind of interested uh community members are. And so uh tonight we'll be running through a high level uh conceptual piece and I say I kind of dwell on conceptual in that uh once or if a certain scenario is chosen uh uh engineers go in and kind of develop official quantities and really kind of uh hunker in on pricing, cost estimates, etc. And so know that any one of these options or scenarios can be tweaked. Um I also want to welcome and introduce Luke Connor with Bolton and Mink. Aaron Schmidt is not available tonight. So Luke is going to be answering any of the technical questions. And then uh for those that might be new to uh the council chambers, want to introduce Dave Anderson, the city attorney. Uh there are some pieces and scenarios that involve rightaway acquisition. And so I've asked it uh Dave to just to kind of give a overview of what that uh entails. And so just to kind of get everyone on the same page, uh we have a few pictures so it kind of can kind of understand uh this is a very tight corridor. Uh meaning you I you can probably kind of understand why there isn't a traditional sidewalk or trail just because of the topography and some of the utilities that are in the existing rightway. Um, as you go further north, you can see a pretty significant retaining wall system. Um, and one of the things that's not uh self-evident by looking at this is the the rightway. Uh so where the kind of the city can build the street is kind of offset with where the street is. Meaning that uh the the boundary for the street is real tight to the curb on the right side and go is actually quite a bit on the west side kind of past to where that sedan or right where the front of that sedan is. And so um which further constrains the ability to to place a traditional uh trail or sidewalk. And then finally, >> just explain right away real quick what that means >> to folks who might not. >> Sure. So right away is the area um where you're it's typically um about 10 ft back from a curb. Um and that's where your actual property line is. And anywhere in between that right ofway is where the city can construct a road, can bury water and sewer utilities, can operate uh storm water. So you can see those storm grates. Uh so although traditionally a property will cut the grass or shovel the sidewalk in that area, it really is property by owned by the city and so you don't pay taxes on that right away. Uh but it there's also private utilities that operate within that. So Excel, Centerpoint, telephone, cable, etc. Uh so we've developed three scenarios and again I'm going to kind of breeze through these and then we can connect with Luke or answer questions in detail. But the first involves what I'd call probably the most traditional approach. Um there is a retaining wall on the west side of the road. Uh this approach uh um removes that retaining wall. uh reconstructs a new retaining wall using what's called big block retaining wall that you see like along Sixth Street. Uh the current retaining wall in that area is Keystone, what you'd typically see in a backyard or front yard residential landscape and places a 10-ft patuminous trail um behind the curb. So the city would maintain uh that curb for snow removal, etc. to run from Lions Park uh to the uh intersection of Old Carver Road uh north of Casey's. Um the second scenario is a 6-ft sidewalk. Uh but it would be in patinus or blacktop and the uh two primary reasons for that is one blacktop is uh more cost effective than concrete and two the city maintains black top trails and sidewalks. And so because of the the grade and steepness of this section, uh we didn't want to put any one resident in a position where they were going to have to shovel or try to maintain a a very steep grade sidewalk trail. Um and also there's a more significant amount of snow that's placed in that because there isn't a traditional boulevard of grass and then the black top. So, you're going to tend to get uh heavier and more amounts of snow in that section. And so, we feel like the city public services staff is has the equipment uh to take that on. So, in this scenario, uh we keep the existing retaining wall, which brings down uh the cost of the overall project. Uh but in order to fit it within that rightaway section, uh both curbs on the east side and the west side of the road are rep or uh reported and repositioned. Uh and the drive lane west uh on Mount Hope Road to about 10 1/2 ft. Is that right, Luke? Um, so a lot I would say more work uh but less obtrusive as far as a retaining wall and um any other uh adverse impacts that property owners might have related to that uh wall. And then uh finally a trail option on the east side of the road uh hugging that curb line as you kind of float further to the east uh it really starts to drop off. So, uh this option does require uh I would say a a small but by property owner impact uh some rightaway um acquisition, meaning that there's not enough space between the lines to put the street and the trail on the east side. So, the city would have to negotiate with property owners um to purchase anywhere from 1 to 5t of additional rideway east of that line. So, I think right now I'm going to pause and just have Dave Anderson, the city attorney, uh for the council sake, for those watching and those in the audience just talk about what that actually means and the process involved with it. >> Thanks, [clears throat] Brent. Thanks, Mayor and Council. Um so um right ofway acquisition is essentially another way to put it is is acquiring an easement from land owners as you saw in both options B and C. Um there would be some uh right ofway necessary in order to carry out those projects. And so the way that's typically done there's a few steps. Um usually what will happen is once a project design is determined that will guide our city engineers to create what are called easement sketches or um show us the areas where the current right ofway boundaries are what's necessary for [music] the project and then they determine what um we have to obtain or acquire from the property owners that are adjacent to the project. And so the engineers put those uh sketches together and surveys and then the city is generally free to negotiate with property owners. Um these are typically arms length transactions, but um a lot of times we like to obtain appraisals beforehand just to make sure, you know, from a I think good government standpoint. One, we're not um purchasing something and ripping someone off, right? We want to make sure it's a fair deal, but two, we don't want to pay too much for the property. Um, obviously with public bunny, we want to make sure we're we're responsible with that money and um not paying more than we should. And so we obtain those appraisals um and if the parties are able to reach a deal, we would acquire the easements. And that's as simple as um preparing a an easement instrument that gets signed by the property owner, walk down to the county or at least uh years ago we used to walk them down to the county in order to record them, but now we do it electronically. Um and then once we do that, the wide the right of way is actually wider than it is today. Um there's a deal a type of deal or or project where um eminent domain would even be considered. I know that this council has been reluctant to do that um with projects aside from very important ones like the levy. Um that's always an option too, but um you know, typically when you're acquiring a few feet of rightway, a foot up to five feet, we're not talking about a ton of acquisitions here. Um you know, those are are generally negotiated because the impacts are a little less significant. and um it's for things public uses like pedestrian ways or other things that are [music] beneficial to the to the community at whole. So um you know I I would say um there's never [clears throat] a a standard path from designing a project and acquiring easements. It's sort of always some unique circumstances that come up here and there, but that's generally what what the process looks like. Um, I'd also add to that just from one easy way to think about, you know, the value of right away or the appraisal process is [music] that you think about it like this. You take somebody's property uh today, the value of their property today. So, if you own a house and it's worth $300,000, um, that's what you could sell it for on the fair market. Um what an appraiser does is they look at the property without the added right ofway, without the rightway that the city wants to acquire and [music] says, "Well, what could they sell it for um if they didn't have that extra foot of of um you know, land um on one side of the property?" And so a lot of times um the impact isn't super significant uh when we're talking slivers of rightway. Um but you know I guess every um circumstance [music] is is kind of unique in in and of itself. So um happy to answer any other questions but typically that's the way the process works with a project like this. I would envision it um looking something like that should the city want to proceed with one of the um options that does require rightway acquisition. >> Thank you Dave. So just a kind of a summary of these uh scenarios or pedestrian connections. So again, scenario A, uh you're reconstructing that existing wall on the west side. So that's the park side of the road. Uh constructing a new wall and installing a 10-ft puminous trail on that west side. Estimated cost is 530,000. uh we do have contingencies and kind of plan for kind of worst case. But I do want to mention in the council's experience with this is that at a concept phase, you know, this involved uh Andrew and Luke and Aaron Schmidt and the team kind of we walked the corridor, we talked about pieces, but it's largely visual using quantities. When the council actually orders plans and specifications, there's another iteration of what that plan has to look like. um and then a revised cost estimate and then ultimately it's the bid amount is what the project costs and so I would say you're at milestone uh it feels like that's coming up a lot today milestone one of a three milestone process. Um then I also wanted to note that uh although this is property tax dollars uh property owners along the project corridor wouldn't be subject to special assessments um >> would not be basically would not >> would not [laughter] would not be uh subject to special assessments. It would be uh paid for by the general property tax levy which is a good uh segue into financing options. So uh there this isn't a project that was is within the existing uh 10-year capital plan. So the although there are many of other sources, the primary source that could be uh used uh would be an inter fund loan from an enterprise fund and just provided some 5year and 10-year uh schedules for repayment uh based on our estimated concept costs. So, uh, we did give, uh, get two emailed, uh, feedback responses from residents, uh, that we printed out and put at the the deis. Um, so I don't know if how you want to run this. Mayor and council, if you want to ask some clarification questions and then give the residents an opportunity. We would ask that uh, residents could come to the front for those that are watching so they can hear you and just give your name and address so we can get that uh, into the record. Um, so what I'm thinking is we kind of hold this like a public hearing where we hear from you guys. Um, we'll we'll have staff answer your questions. Um, and we'll hear your opinions on kind of what you think um, of the options that we're considering this evening. Does that sound good? >> Sure. >> All right. Who wants to come up first? >> Okay. >> Great. My name is Jessica Olsen. and I'm at 504 Mount Hope Road. Um, so I will say the option most impactful on my property is the most expensive. Um, with the large retaining wall, I'll say that I'm not against the project. I am against a half a million dollar project or even a4 million project. Um, and I guess my biggest question is why aren't we considering the existing trail considering that's a big budget that we're looking at and making that safe or well more well lit or with guard rails or something like that versus disrupting a road that in reality I don't see how we could make this as safe. I don't think attracting foot traffic or bicycle traffic down Mount Hope Road is a good idea no matter how wide the trail is. When you say lighting, I just want to clarify. Are you talking about the trail that comes out the back side of Lions and comes >> like old trail I believe is I'm not too familiar with it, but yeah. >> Okay. >> I think that's what residents used to use. >> Thanks, Jessica. I appreciate it. >> Anybody else? Come on up. >> Okay. >> Good evening. >> Hello. >> Hi, John Casp. I live at 619 Mount Hope. So Brent, when you were describing scenario A, you said that the snow removal would be the city's duty because it was on the rightway. >> Correct. >> Does that stand for scenario C? Cuz at 619, that's my side. >> So I'm curious if snow removal then is a city responsibility >> for all. Yes, for all scenarios because they're in black top. If it was concrete, then it conflicts with the city's ordinance on removal. But if it's a black top >> trailer sidewalk, uh the public services department would remove uh the snow. >> Okay. So therefore, liability for negligence, injury on the sidewalk would revert to the city's problem, not the property owner. >> The it would be on the batumous trail or sidewalk. >> Yeah. assuming scenario C and it was in my yard. >> Yeah, I'd defer to the city attorney to answer that. >> Um, so I I guess I wouldn't Sorry, my microphone didn't turn on. Um, generally it it would be this if if if we're talking a trail and not a sidewalk, that is what the city is responsible for maintaining. But I would add that cities have something called recreational immunity. So, [music] uh, injuries that happen through the recreational, uh, amenities that they provide, um, they are, [music] um, protected from being sued. Otherwise, cities wouldn't provide parks and playgrounds and things because people get hurt on those things [music] quite often. Trails, I think, fall into that category. But I think to ease your mind, um, you would not be liable for injuries that happen within the city's trail, um, that happens to be in city rightway that's adjacent to your property. Um, >> okay. doesn't mean you wouldn't get sued by somebody, but you'd have [music] good defenses for it. Um, people get sued for things all the time that they're not liable for. So, um, >> okay. Um, I have a question. What's the slope or grade? I'm not sure who to direct that to. >> I can give that to Luke. >> There you go. >> Here we go. Um the existing grade I believe is like 11 and a half% down Mountain Hope Road. You're talking about like the steep portion of it. >> Yeah. >> Okay. In front of my house I did a measurement which is not at the steepest and it was like a 9.8. So I would believe at overall or somewhere it's more than that 9.8. So that makes me question having read the ADA, American Disabilities Act, and are >> how can you build the sidewalk if it's not ADA compliant? >> That's a D question. >> It's actually not. >> We have >> I'll defer to the engineers on design. I know they refer to >> I want to mention one thing when when we're discussing the ADA compliance here. So, the trail that comes out of the backside of Lions Park is also not ADA compliant um because we didn't use any we couldn't use any grant funds for that either. So, we do have trails in town that are not within that just as a reference to that this wouldn't be the only one or if it happens. But knowing that in 2023 we have begun to become ADA compliant, how can you now build a new sidewalk and still declare that you're ADA compliant? That seems hypocritical sort of. >> Do you have questions to answer while I >> I can kind of answer that. Um, typical rules say that you can meet the same slope as an existing traveled road. Um, they don't like when you go steeper and then I think you're more referencing like ped landings and stuff. Those typically we would fix up and make 88 >> or straight runs like Mount Hope with that much slope are non-compliant as well, not just the landings. >> Correct. But they Oh, yeah. So then as you mentioned the trail through Lions Park is not compliant and I've seen that that is supposedly scheduled for what did you call it? Remediation. So if you build a non-compliant ADA non-compliant sidewalk now when does the time come when someone says it has to be remediated the problems? So I think >> I mean why >> you're taking the definition of remediation differently? I think we might have Is that something that's scheduled to be resurfaced >> because I don't the Mount Hope Road for the uh >> Lions Park [music] Trail? >> I saw that it was non-compliant and it would need remediation of some I don't know >> 13,000 or $30,000. But >> does that get us Andrew? Do you know is that trail coming for steel coating or something like that for maintenance? Don't think so. Okay. >> Okay. How was the Lion's Park or I should say >> Well, if we don't know if Lions Park has to have remediation, then my next question I can't ask. So, >> so John, if you don't mind, >> I'm gonna take a stab at answering the question you posed at Council Member Mock. You know, I used to run and there's nothing but hills in the city of Carver. Older Courtney bought an ebike because it's uphill both ways to get to places. You know, I live kind of by community park. So, coming down here, it's less than a mile away. I should do more walking, but it's uphill to get home and it's a mighty hill. Just because of the topography that we have in our community, we can't guarantee that by um uh scope or I'm sorry, what am I trying to say? grade that we will meet that component of the ADA compliance. Kind of to what Luke said, we will make sure that there are those ramps. Uh the new ramps that we're putting in have those little nubs on them and they're if you see like right in front of city hall, they're tactile and those are for folks with um visibility or limited vision to be able to have something that's tactile [music] that they know that they can kind of feel before they're in the middle of the street. So those elements will be incorporated. the ADA pledge um or or work that we did in 2023 was tied to federal funding. It was a requirement and Brent, loop me in if I'm completely wrong on this, but it was tied to federal funding that we were receiving for our levy improvement project that we had to kind of take that pledge and it's the right thing to do. But as we're going through and doing these street improvements that we put in those improvements in the crossings, there are a number of areas, Fourth Street, Sixth Street, Jonathan Carver Parkway, Mount Hope Road that are very, very hilly in our areas. I'm sure you know. So, we're never going to be able to cut down the grade on those areas. But for me, I'd rather see someone with who needs the practices and the protections that the ADA policy provides. I'd rather see them on a trail than in the middle of the road. >> Okay. Um I agree. Some roads aren't going to be able to be AD ADA compliant. And that's [clears throat] probably why there is no sidewalk or trail. It's just too steep. So that brings the question, have there been discussions like this in the past? Like when the trail through Lion's Park was built and what was determined then? Have people before us deemed it unsafe and therefore you shouldn't do it? >> The walkability. I was going to say, yeah, Christy and I are the longestterm council members. We were around for the Lions Park Trail and those issues didn't come up. >> Okay. >> I think >> Well, do you want to talk about walkability? >> Yeah. So, back when I was staff [music] here and before my council days, we worked with the county um and I'm pulling from from memory here from a number of years ago, but we worked and we had approved a walkability study. So, we um along with the with Carver County went through um rated our areas of town. Uh saw where our gaps in uh pedestrian walkways, pedestrian access were uh were um and then we mapped out some of those. I mean, some of those have been rectified at this point. So, one of those was Main Street West on the way out. There was um there was no sidewalks for most of it or some of them ran into retaining walls. Now, obviously, it doesn't go all the way out to the bluffs, but um you couldn't even get a block or two past without being in the road. Uh there was different ones. The Lions Park one was identified as well as um trying to find ways to get up to that section of town because we do have ways to get to a number of them. US Fish and Wildlife filled somewhat of a gap getting out to the bluffs. We're going up to Fourth Street. We go up um Sixth Street. Um and as Courtney said before, this is a town of of hills, so it does make it difficult. And when you're retro when you're looking to retrofit into areas of town that are already have already been established and for a while it it does get a little bit trickier. Um but that was part of the reason that we had that study and the council at the time um about how can we make Carver more connected? How can we connect so we don't have pockets of town that sit by themselves and our kids, [music] our families are are trying to figure out ways and trailblazing through or as we see in in areas that don't have that accessibility where I do see when I come down Mount Hope, people are certainly on the trail walking dogs and with family, whatever above Lions Park and then there's I mean we I think we've all seen right that there's people in the road walking down. Um I know I know there was a a question about whether we're want to attract walkers. Um I think we want to attract pedestrian attract pedestrian traffic. Um and have them be safe in all places that we can because they are they are walking there already, right? people are going to walk generally the shortest route to where they can get to unless they're out exercising. Um like real exercising rather than if they're you know you're going down to Casey's and you're heading home up Mount Hope. You're not going to walk down to Broadway to walk all the way up the backside to get to Sky View Lane. That's just not going to be that. [laughter] Do you? Well, >> walked up. >> I am happy that you were getting your steps in all day. It >> is in the year 2022. So being new to the neighborhood, it is actually a more strenuous walk straight up all that grade. Broadway has a slighter attack and then you get to the Lion's Park. >> It is easier. But anyhow, >> I don't So just the walkability study just called out the areas of town that were not accessible and were cut off, had gaps in them. So, one of the one of the I don't want to say charges of council, focus of council, but over the past number of years that that especially Courtney and I have been on is that we make sure that we are cognizant of that whenever a new street project is coming in. So, there are plans to eventually redo that corner down um by where the old coffee shop was. So, that if we're going to be ripping up something once, let's not rip it up twice. So, let's make sure we're looking at all the options and what we might be able to do. might want to do, might not want to do in that area, but let's take take a look at it now. So, again, we're we're hearing from you guys all right now and all of your viewpoints on it, which we will all take into consideration as we take a look at all these plans, but the walkability study really did address that um on the city staff, city council, and the county level. >> So, [clears throat] specifically about the sidewalk, not how it affects [music] my property. I understand bicycles are legal in Carver and a bicycle going down that path could easily reach 30 miles an hour legally. You put a pedestrian and a bicyclist on the same path, six foot wideoo, just a thought. Um, scenario C, which is the one that is on my side of the road, will create two crosswalks and three mailboxes moved across the homeowners away from the homeowners, requiring three homeowners to walk across that street without crosswalk to get their mail. And then pedestrians and bicyclists to cross in two other areas. Five new crossings on an 11 grade, 11 degree grade, whatever it was. You're introducing a lot of danger there for residents. >> Something to think about, John. >> Yes. >> Can I just interrupt you, Bren? Did you have something to add? >> No. >> Okay. >> Postal vehicles now will have to make three stops going down the hill rather than three stops going up. It endangers their daily job. Um, I think that through the years the city trail loop map identifies Mount Hope as a moderate difficulty rating. It's misleading. I think over all the years residents see a trail map that lists that as a moderate difficulty, but they don't see a path. So they think, "I want a path." If they knew how difficult and challenging that section is, they might not even use the path. I've been here five years or four, five years. The maps have always shown a trail route down that section of Mount Hope. People want their trail. Well, if you put a hot dog stand on the map up at Lions Park for five years, people are going to want a hot dog stand. I think that the trail maps are trissy. I might have trespassing. I lose a tree. I think the way I read that, my homeowner's insurance goes up with a sidewalk. that means my liability does go up no matter who's cleaning the sidewalk. Those are things I don't want. Um, interesting. Without it, I have safety from lawsuit. I delight in the use of my front yard without residents walking right through my yard. I have relief. Well, actually, cities covering the snow removal. Anyhow, safety and delight are two terms that describe paradise. So, right now, without a sidewalk, I have paradise in my yard. Build the sidewalk and I lose two conditions of paradise. I now have people in my yard that could trespass. They might be feeling attracted to some sort of a what do they call it? Attractive nuisance. That might even be me. I might be so attractive. [laughter] >> I become a nuisance. I mean, so I'm glad to end that on a happy note. I guess I've said what I need to say. >> Thank you, John. >> Thank you, council members. >> I actually appreciate the ending. It's to end it with a chuckle. Thank you. >> One other question. >> What's the next step in terms of are there other meetings for um I shouldn't say what's the next step. Will there be other meetings for residents to chime in? >> Yeah. So, I can answer that. Um, so the intent tonight is for the council to listen. They may or may not uh share a point of view. Uh, at our next meeting, which is Tuesday, February 17th, >> uh, it's a Tuesday because of the President's Day holiday, um, the council's going to be considering authorizing the city engineers office to prepare plans and specs for the bigger project. As you probably know, Mount Hope Road is scheduled for a reclamation project and uh there's also a lot of mil and overway mill and overlay and reclamation work in the Carver Bluffs neighborhood. So, the engineers office is preparing all of that. And so at that meeting uh the council could say uh direct the engineers office to say scenario ABC or you know we're going to punt on the trail for now or something in between or a combination of any one of those three or four. So, but that's kind of the cadence of events where uh we talked to the council at the work session uh at their previous meeting that if they did give an indication of where they were heading, that would give staff an opportunity then to communicate back out to residents and the community where they were maybe leaning and that may or may not influence whether or not someone wanted to come to the next meeting. So, >> okay. >> Thanks again. >> Thanks. coming. >> Yep. >> Who's next? >> I just say we're here just to really support John and >> Okay. [laughter] If you want to come up, you got to come up and speak because we have we have tens and tens of folks who are watching at home and I want them to be able to hear you. Can you introduce yourself, please? >> I'm Mike Peterson. I live on 4007th Street. So, not directly related, but Yep. I do walk the path down [clears throat] that's currently there and it's it's very sufficient. I guess I my comment would be it looks like you've got a solution for something that's not a problem. I don't think people will walk on there. I don't walk on there. So that's all I want to say. >> Thanks, Mike. Yeah. >> Any other thoughts? All right. >> Thank you. >> Hi, my name is Sean Stapleton. I live at 1200 Mount Hope Road. >> Um, couple things. I do walk it almost every single day and I walk with my dog almost every single day. I don't believe there's an easy solution. I can tell you that when I am with my dog going down the trail to Casey's, which will get used a lot more with the Carver Bridge going across the river, I plan on using an ebike because this whole accessing shock fee is going to be awesome. But two things to please keep in mind. If you would go look at police reports on Carver on Mount Hope Road, one of the topics we need to talk about is the speed in which people come down that road. >> Regularly we see people over 60 miles an hour. Happen to be really good friends with lots of police officers, etc. And it's one of our concerns. So at some point we should probably consider that. But the reason why I'm bringing that up is we've lived there 10 plus years. I think our mailbox has been hit three times. Our neighbors mailbox is gone right now. So if you are going to do something, the only thing one consider is heading down the hill. People tend to lose more control and go off to the right side versus coming up the hill. You'd go off to the left. I'm not advocating for either one of those. I appreciate the due diligence you guys have been doing in Carver. I really appreciate how you're making it more walking and biking friendly. Um particularly with the bridge now to Shaki. I own a company Minnetonka. There'll be opportunities to literally ride an ebike from Carver to Shockby to the new entertainment district and then all the way into Minnetonka. So to me, that's an excellent selling opportunity in Carver today and in the future. So I commend you on that. Um I would love an opportunity at some point when you talk about Mount Hope to discuss what we might be able to do for speed bumps or something to slow people down heading down the hill. It's pretty um crazy to see how fast those cars are, particularly at the lower down part of the hill. Um maybe at some point we talk about a speed sign or so. Who knows? Speed bump. I I'm I'm not I'm I'm a neopight when it comes to this. I just know living there with my dog and the dogs on the other side. It's the neighbors are quite nervous. The prior people had young children. They would put a sign out that would say, "Please slow down. Remind you there's kids here." And regularly we'd sit there in awe of 50 plus miles an hour. It's easy to do because it's downhill. >> But please could we keep that in mind? Whatever solution you're going to come up with, I'd really appreciate that. >> Sean, thank you. Can I just ask a clarifying question? You talked about the mailboxes being wiped out. Is that a year- round thing or is that more just in the winter when they're icy conditions? >> Um, I can tell you there's tracks in our yard year round, >> but they hit the mailboxes seem to be more in the winter because I think they go further up the curb. Okay. >> Um, but I do we do see tracks regularly in the grass and it happens to be we're on kind of where the street comes back and curves back to the right. Um, and we've seen delivery trucks, etc. end up on the curb. >> So, one of the things I'd love to figure out is how to just slow the traffic down in general for the road. >> Yeah, thank you. >> Thanks for the insight. I can share the the current project beyond the trail does include two digital speed signs along Lope Road. So, I know that's not a solution for everything, but it should help. And then we can mention to the sheriff's office to pay some extra attention to Mount Hope. >> I appreciate it. And again, I'm not coming to complain or advocate one way or the other. I just I think you guys have done a wonderful job gathering feedback and um Carver's really improved in the last 10 years dramatically. And I think you have an opportunity to keep doing the right stuff. So, thank you for your opportunity. >> Yeah. Thanks for coming up, Sean. And you said you're not here to complain. you can like this is your [laughter] opportunity like again we never get people coming to these meetings so like take the opportunity if the snow wasn't plowed in front of your house let us know. Um anyone else >> or don't let us know [laughter] joking that maybe he didn't do get it missed another one here. Um sorry anybody else? Okay, kind of keeping with the um public hearing format, this would be your last opportunity because I think we're going to talk amongst ourselves here. So, I just want to make sure that that's clear and give you guys the opportunity. We're always available at our next meeting via email, via cell phone. My number is 612727703. That's on the website and on every utility bill you've ever received. Um, but going once, going twice. Come on up. There we go. Come on up. I'm not a resident. Can I make Yeah. >> All right. >> All are welcome in Carver. >> So, my name is Roger Hinri. Uh I live at uh in uh Cologne, but the entire rest of my family lives in Carver. And I kind of look at this and I've been listening to this. I came to your work session and I kind of feel that you're really looking at it narrowly. kind of bothers me that there's only scenario A, B, and C. Where's D and E and F? Is is the only solution a straight line down the hill? You know, I think you could look at it wider and really think about, okay, these three scenarios, none of them, everybody's going, "Yay, let's do it. We love it." I didn't hear that once. I didn't hear it from anybody in the council. And here it ain't from from anybody in the gallery. I think there's other options that you should look at. And uh you know, you mentioned uh the trail through the Lion's Park isn't ADA compliant. Well, putting another one, two wrongs don't make it right. You know, people with disabilities need to be safe on the trails just like everybody else. So, I think you need to look that I think you need to broaden your horizon and look at that. Look for a D and E and F. Those might be your best scenarios. >> That's all I have. >> Thanks, Roger. >> Thank you. >> Anybody else? >> Okay, I'm going to uh just read the two emails that I received and we'll give you guys another opportunity if you want to come up. Um, let's see. This one is uh from Connie Wolf. said, "Hey, Courtney can't be at the meeting tonight, but I would like to see Mount Hope Road improvement on a sidewalk. Um, is there any way to lower the costs? I don't know, local vendors." Regardless, it would be nice living in Spring Creek Meadows community to have this sidewalk to be more accessible to downtown for whatever it's worth tonight. Um, it seems unsafe for many walkers during Steamboat Days. I used to live uh off the other hill on Kerchie Hill Drive and it's a huge improvement now since the fourth street sidewalk was done. Um the other email that I got was from Brian Parker. Um I'm going to summarize this one because it's a little bit longer because he laid out the pros and cons for every scenario. Um but at the bottom he says, "My preference would be scenario C. reasons would be less cost tied into the existing sidewalk at the top of the hill and better walking access to homes on the east side of the road as you go up the hill. Having shared that, I recommend that two crosswalks would be adequately marked and signed to be safe to cross both during the night and day. Um, with a slope of the road, speeds can climb quickly as drivers descend into downtown Carver. Um, so with that, last call. Sorry, I'm looking at you guys because you're kind of the only group that hasn't spoken yet. All right. Um, okay. Thank you guys all for coming tonight. I truly appreciate it. Council, what say you? >> I have some questions around the existing retaining wall. So, the Keystone wall um my understanding is that was built about 20 years ago that is built with material typically used for landscaping. My understanding is it's porous. It's subject to damage from salt, the things that are coming off the road next to it. Uh it's subject to Boeing. Um what do we think is the projected life of that existing wall? >> Tough to say. Um another 20 years. >> Okay. >> Give or take. give or take. So, and the concern I have is as we go forward and I know this is an expensive [clears throat] option, but I want to think about the structure that's in place now. Uh, if we do this and we didn't consider that if we replace that, that's going to be what those I don't remember the term for it's the big block. >> My understanding is those have like an 80 to 100year lifespan. Correct. >> Correct. >> Okay. So, give or take 20 years, we'll be rebuilding this wall anyway, right? Correct. Okay. Um, I think that should be part of our calculus as we're examining these options. Maybe we're lucky and we get 20 years, but that's a that is a big wall of Keystone block holding back a lot of earth. Um, I don't think this council would have made a decision to build it that way. Uh, I think as we look at these kind of projects, we're not looking to pass a problem on to a a future council. We're we're making it a generational uh improvement. So, that's one concern I have. Uh the other concern is uh impacting heavily one property owner uh with city rightway or impacting several on the other side. So those uh I'm factoring that into so we can talk about the the cost of that wall but if we're facing it anyway I want to make sure that's part of our discussion. That's I I'll keep adding things, but that's [laughter] >> Do you want to opine like was that your opining on which scenario you prefer or >> Well, I I need to hear from from all of us. >> Okay. Uh, I just want to be sure that that is, like I said, that's part of the calculus because, yeah, it's a lot of money, but if we're faced with rebuilding it in 10 years, uh, a future city council is going to look back at us and go, why didn't they consider that? Just a brief note in response to the last uh comment like we can develop as many scenarios as the council likes and we can look at different things. Part of this is a cost calculation, a cost to have the city engineers office spend time to design. But if there are things that you want to look at, it can be a hybrid and we can go, you know, down to letter G if you wanted to based on the feedback you get tonight and your conversation. And you could look at, you know, not going on a straight line. So you have a full spectrum of choices. This is not where we have to end. This is where we're beginning. So, you know, if you can just figure that into your conversation, we can really go wherever the path leads us. >> Sorry. Something really good and bad at that all the time. >> You [laughter] wanted to use that all night long. >> All right, Lori. What do you think? I have some clarifying questions between Brent and um Dave is on the west side there would be less land acquisition like it's not like real straight. >> Yeah. If the >> it's it's not even from however it was developed when they did the curb and >> gutter. Are you talking about option A with the trail on the west side? >> If you don't mind going all three like where >> Okay. So if Yeah. I mean it's my understanding and I didn't prepare these graphics but I'll let Luke chime in if I'm wrong about this. Um there would be no right ofway acquisition necessary for uh option A and that's because we already have pretty wide right ofway there. So all the work would be done in existing rightway including um improvements to that retaining wall. U there would be a little bit of temporary easement that's necessary. That's the green part shown there. That's just because city staff and contractors would need to temporarily be located in those areas that we don't have right ofway easement um during the project for just um project related tasks, you know, staging or grading or things like that, but they wouldn't be making any permanent improvements in there. Option B, um that's where we start getting into [music] the permanent right-of-way acquis acquisition that would be necessary. Um, and it it appears that's all on the east side. Um, and that would just be the home on the corner there of Sixth and Mount Hope Road. Um, where you can see kind of that large triangular piece of permanent rightway. Um, but there would would again be some temporary easement necessary kind of all along the the stretch there. That's where the green um the green is. >> And I just would add and Luke can comment, the road is constructed in a weird way in that location. So may not be needed to acquire, but it would be best practices to do a cleanup in that area if it's hard to explain without actually being at the intersection, but it's uh Is there a better way to describe that, Luke? >> Uh, no, not really. Um, >> no engineering term for saying weird. >> It is a goofy way. You're talking Sixth Street, right? Yeah. um way it cuts that property corner there. But um so yeah, we would have to do some further investigation on that little corner piece. But >> it it appears like the road is like constructed and you know and it you know if you spend any time looking at old GIS of the county like some somebody at some point measured from the wrong spot more more than likely. Um and then I would just add I guess to answer the question um for option C that's where the right the permanent rightaway acquisitions