e e get to the right packet Workshop let's call the workshop to order roll call please council member Cole here council member schweer is absent council member Wong is absent council member nordby here mayor mongi here get a motion to adopt the agenda please so moved so moved counc member council member Kohls and council member Norby all those in favor say I I I thank you very much thank you mayor we have three topics tonight first up is uh Century College design students presentation on 916 student house uh selections and we have a tight schedule tonight but uh we got you guys about 10 minutes to present please come on up please all right come on up welcome welcome back yeah we got the boards I always get a little Envy when I see the boards and I need to do some [Music] stuff okay everybody in place we ready this is an I assume okay um thank you so much for having us my name is Katherine Harrington I'm the instructor of these this little crew here um who worked on the house this year and it's always such a pleasure we love this whole partnership with nor St Paul with uh 9916 and with uh uh St Paul College it's just such a great great great collaboration and we're thrilled to show you what we've come up with this year a little bit different so I hope you'll like it thanks Katherine uh thank you for having us we are honored to be be here and appreciate the opportunity to design for this project in the interest of time we're going to jump right into our design concept uh this year we wanted to take a different approach aesthetically from previous year's projects we decided we wanted to go with a transitional contemporary style to set it apart from its neighboring home we took inspiration from a donated countertop and built the rest of our design around it we wanted to use elements that were complement that would complement the countertop so we selected upscale color palette with Cool Blues and warm organic wood tones that would Elevate the overall aesthetic the lighting we chose accentuates our selections and illuminate the clean lines throughout this design beginning with the exterior we employed a combination of horizontal sighting and vertical board and batting to evoke visual Intrigue and to create a striking contrast against the backdrop of the black roof meanwhile the vibrant Hue of the front door beckons you inside with its inviting Allure upon stepping inside you'll be greeted by the seamless transition where the warmth of the luxury vinyl planks gracefully meets the carpeted stairs leading to the basement continuing into the open living room you'll be welcomed by the clean contemporary finishes that offer boundless potential encouraging you to Envision this space as your own to the left you'll discover the mud room and laundry room where a stunning custom crafted floating Walnut bench commands attention against the backdrop of a striking blue paneled accent wall it's the perfect place to take a seat while you get ready or to drop your bags off when you come home exiting the mudroom leads you into the heart of the home the kitchen we opted for a Sleek white quartz for the perimeter countertops strategically highlighting the focal point of the room the stunning Granite Island countertop the island Cabinetry is a warm and elegant Walnut which complement the cool blue tones of the perimeter Cabinetry to enhance the modern aesthetic we chose slab doors for a clean streamlined appearance these doors are Tastefully accented with Champagne Bronze poles that Infuse a touch of Timeless tradition beyond the Cabinetry lies the backsplash featuring dimensional tiles that introduce depth uwing the kitchen with a subtle sense of movement and Intrigue the clean lines of the tile Echo the essence of transitional style and effortlessly guide your gaze through the space moving down the hall you'll discover the main level bathroom which may be small but makes a big impact the abstract lighting dances playfully off the mirror brightening the room and highlighting the high-end quartz countertop that creates a sense of luxury this Ambiance extends to the primary bathroom where the selections Echo those of the kitchen once again showcasing the beautiful granite countertop which rests a top every homeowner's dream a double vanity meticulously placed lighting highlights the clean lines of the space embodying the Contemporary feel of the home descending to the lower level you'll discover two bedrooms a family room and the lower level bathroom which gives off an inviting earthy aesthetic featuring a quartz countertop and a captivating pattern floor it offers a Timeless charm that welcomes you in overall this design really meets our starting criteria and fulfills our vision to create an original Unique Home that exudes sophistication and creates value for the homeowner with our custom selections and wellth thought out concept The Real World experience that this project has given us has been invaluable it has shown us the reality of interior design things don't always go as planned and sometimes you must overcome obstacles but even with all its challenges seeing the final product is well worth it we want to thank you again for this amazing opportunity to participate in this design build partnership thank you thank you thank you beautiful finishes looks real nice any questions yeah can I do that again run no it looks great it's on video YouTube thanks again yeah thank you for everything work I appreciate you appreciate it you're way more creative than I Catherine thank you for coming back every year I love this oh that's awesome thank you thank you so much your assistance thanks for yeah good to see you thanks a lot great work um we need to pre-budget Workshop it Tom's not here oh okay uh mayor this is where you tell your favorite joke your favorite dance that's right part of the entertainment [Music] committee yeah did a nice job any updates back there Ron want tell us about all your trees you've been cutting down or anything like that or I got fill some time here yeah come on up bring Randy that's right partner in crime there's nobody you can give some sort there's nobody behind you to look for I me yeah yeah a boy you like to be on that's off to the crew I see them back out cleaning the sweeping the streets again that's awesome yeah we're out for a second time right go around nice um yeah we would thought we were way ahead of the game because uh we didn't have snow so we got through the city one time and well now we're starting again which is good the trees are budded and once those start you know to fall we get that cleaned up um trees contractors in work he's got 50 trees to take out for the EAB that part of our grant um the I get the big thing with that we got going right now with those is all the dumps are closed for us to get rid of the trees um I guess over the winter time where we usually bring our trees and they chip them up uh down at Pig ey they use that for energy or burning the energy or to heat for energy um the burner went out and I guess they can't get one for two months so all the dumps basically right now are closed for us to uh drop our trees so what we're doing is we're piling them down at mcnight in the old tennis court down there there um until we figure out what and if when we can start uh offloading these trees somewhere so you're probably going to see big piles of trees down there if people see that that is why we don't really have an option right now um the County dumps where the residents would go to the cities could never dump there um this year Randy made some phone calls and we got in where we could go out there and dump for a couple weeks and they just started to fill up too quick so they stopped uh letting the cities go and dump there so like I said if you hear anything or people say why are they why is there all these brush and stumps or logs piled down at mcnight that's what that is for um three wide campfire is what we're putting up that we're do yeah and right now you know like the county we usually dump out uh um Ramsey County Jail out there we have a spot out there but they're full out there also they've been chipping but they have excessive amounts of wood chips right now and they're trying to get offload those or get rid of them it's just a spacing they don't have room for them so I'm glad we got the space to put that there for now yeah so the goal this year with our grant is uh the contractors will remove hopefully 90 trees and that'll add to like the 120 that we have slated to remove for the EAB so this year 120 and that 90 next year hopeful us hopefully for us we'll remove another 120 and 80 additional 80 trees and then the year after another 80 trees um for the grand part for the residents I believe right now we have 10 residents that have have uh inquired about removing trees we basically we go out there look at what they have make sure it's an ash tree um once we get kind of a group of 10 of them together we put that all for bid to a contractor he comes in gives us the price so we kind of handle all that work for the the residents so they don't have to you know go and track down get a few bids and then we handle that um just basically through us our city Forester Josh and Randy and I so that's kind of uh update on the EAB or the the tree and the tree Grant stuff that we're working on um what about the trees for the residents like trees that they that are up for grabs up for grabs um that I'm pardon meay Monday 8 8 am. oh that's when they can sign up for it all right yeah there you go yeah Monday 8: a.m. you can get your tree Monday 8 a.m. I didn't know that how's the irrigation project at Casey going irrigation project at Casey is we'll keep feeling we keep feeding you there's nobody behind you it it is done it it is done he finished up midweek last week so so Randy out there working yep I got the big wave yeah now that whole uh that whole inside area in there is uh all irrigated so our plan is is we're going going to I think we um air rated that area we're going to go black dirt seed it and try to get that grass inside that area nice around the Pavilion you know that's that's the goal um it'll be a little bit of challenge growing grass with seed there just because it's very well used but we're going to you know do what we can do to to get some nice grass in there um when do you turn on the air Raider at Silver the air Rader at Silver would have gotten turned on over the winter okay um but the county monitors that oxygen levels in the lake and because the lake was um Frozen over then it was opened up again and then there wasn't much snow there was enough light apparently that got through there where we didn't have to operate at all this year awesome so we got through that got through the year without uh having to operate that we're not sure how much life left on that thing so it was good to not have to test it huh yeah I mean hopefully I I I can't remember how how many years we are into the the new motor the rebuild that they had but um yeah um like I said we started Street sweep street sweeping again um summertime help we got all of our summertime help hired for the year that awesome so that's really nice normally we're kind of into it and we ask some of the you know the people that we've hired if they got any friends but we got that fulfilled for the year so some of those will be starting at the end of April and then some of them mid uh miday um for that so fantastic yeah um what else you guys want to know showed up you look like you may be off the hook keep it going you're pretty good warm-up back big time well thanks Ron thank you all right appreciate bud I had no internet connection we had struggles up here as well signing lucky we had somebody over there in it that uh got me uh booted up or got me back up give me just one second sure and there we go didn't we just finish this yes doesn't it seem like we just finished this it's kind of like a a year year-long process um it's kind of crazy but uh good evening mayor and council members uh tonight we're we're going to have a little bit of our 2025 pre-budget Workshop um this isn't the official kickoff to it but uh pretty close to it um so I know in the past there's been some um questions and discussions on how do we compare with rates um not just the property tax rate but also some of our utilities and so tonight we're going to kind of show you a little bit of that information and then kind of set the stage for the 2025 budget and so uh you know the purpose of this meeting tonight is to provide information to the city council um in preparation for the 2025 budget um it's to provide an opportunity for the city city council to discuss and direct staff uh on the 2025 Levy Target um there was a uh I think a retreat earlier in the year um that city council had with the city manager um this is some of the highest priorities for the 2024 and as we can see number six on there is a keep taxes affordable is is kind of a vision component to it and that really is where um the uh budget um kind of comes into play uh not only there but also um balancing the affordability with being able to try to accomplish some of the the main um priorities that city council has so kind of want to start you off and kind of tell you take a look at how our Market values are are doing uh there so there are preliminary numbers that have come out from the assessor's office um again for uh the taxes payable in 2025 the assessor um uh values are as of January 2nd of 2024 um so they've just recently come out um the preliminary uh median value home increasing is only one at 1 and a half% um for this payable 2025 in comparison to the past two years it's been 9.2% and 15.5% so you're seeing that uh home values have uh you know started to go flat um after the the huge increases that they've been in the past um preliminary Market values overall including apartments and Commercial and the residential um are only increasing a 8% um in comparison to the past two years we were at 7.7% and 17.7% again so it's not just um residential home values that are are going flat it's across the board um we're seeing that they they've finally flattened out um here's kind of just a graph you'll see graphs that kind of depict everything um that we have this is of a median value home um you can see from uh 2017 it was approximately 167,000 and in 2025 and these are for the payable years um we'll be up to $333,500 um again you can see that line up up there from 24 to 25 is starting to flatten out but we've had some huge growths um ever since 201 22 three and four were some very significant increases um again overall um Market values from the assessor's office again um we're just shy of that uh 1.5 billion um in market value um again you can see that significant increase that really started taking off in 22 and 23 tax capacity so first kind of a little bit of what is tax capacity so tax capacity is utilized to actually calculate um the tax rate of a jurisdiction than is applied to all of the properties and so tax capacity um takes uh the market value and then um the Minnesota um by Statute um puts different percentages for different um real estate classifications uh for instance a a residential property um is usually at 1% Market or commercial properties are higher uh so what happens is the market value is then multiplied by this percentage and it's turned over into called we call it net tax capacity um it's a tax capacity then you take whatever you're leving and you divide it by that total net tax capacity of your unique taxing Authority and you calculate your taxing rate that rate is then applied to all net tax capacities on all properties so the more commercial property you have the more you know for equal market value the more tax capacity you would have versus a pure residential type of community um so that's kind of a little bit about what tax capacity is and it's in the the graphs that I'm going to show you it's important to kind of see kind of the trends of that tax capacity and kind of the composition and I think you're all of the composition of the city of North St Paul um but it's kind of interesting in seeing um that because it also shows you where your tax burden goes to um so um kind of some highlights that you're going to see is that a Residential Properties make up over 85% of our tax base um in my my uh first year here when um we were going out for the first Bond um SNP gave our our rating and they give kind of a little description they called uh the city which I took kind of offensively at first uh when I had heard it they called it a basically a a bedroom community um and I thought well that's kind of offensive um what they really meant by that part to it is that we're predominantly a residential um Community um and we don't have a lot of businesses and Commercial um activity that's happening within the city we have fantastic Transportation on major highways that are around here and so people live here um but they work somewhere else um and I think you're you see that you know what that residential property is being made up of over 85% of the tax base that's actually a true statement um uh the tax uh increment capacity has increased over nine times the amount in 2015 uh tax increment taxes are captured by the Tiff District so when we've had number of our developments that we've done in in recent years it's adding to our market value um but not necessarily to our net tax capacity that we're using in our tax rate um because it's captured um it's captured to pay off if we have a payo note um it's um if we go out for a bonding um related to um a development um that's in a tiff District it'll go off to pay off that that bonded debt um but it doesn't get captured um and utilized to reduce your tax rate um so even though Tiff um helps on the economic development side to it um it hurts as far as the net tax capacity and not lowering your tax rate so it doesn't help offset the burden that the the residents are are seeing in their own homes some a couple of uh graphs here that kind of depict that and this is going from payable 2014 to 20 um 23 you can see the upper line is residential and you can see where that is significantly increased over time um 5.2 million in tax capacity to 12.3 uh but you can see the commercial component to it is is only risen 1.6 to approximately 2.1 U million so you can see that again our residential um component of our tax base has been growing significantly um our C our commercial is pretty stagnant that comes into play when you've heard me talk about um fiscal disparities um so we're considered in the fiscal disparity World a winner um a winner because we contribute a certain amount to the pool but we get so much more distributed back which then is multiplied by the prior year's tax rate to actually give us real dollars um that those dollars are then reduced from whatever we put out for a tax levy um and then um the net amount is what actually gets distributed and calculated into the tax rate that's applied to properties so if you've heard me speak and we'll there's a graph here um that'll show what our fiscal disparity dollars have been over time and I think we're in the range of about $1.2 million so if you thought about if that we didn't get that additional $1.2 million and every $71,000 is 1% Levy increase you can see how significant that would be and how higher tax rate actually would be if we weren't getting the fiscal disparities but it's a double-edged sword we're getting it because we haven't had the commercial um growth in in Pro commercial property growth in comparison to the Metro um area um here's here's a depiction of of the of the tax increment tax capacity that I was talking about that gets actually captured um that goes into Tiff districts and you can see again um since 2021 um it's grown significantly because we've had a number of of big um developments that have occurred um the Centennial Building um you've had um quick trip um property um and so those are in Tiff districts and the net tax capacity is being captured by those Tiff districts to pay off obligations that we have for those so those are actually um not you know when they calculate the city's total net tax capacity there's two components that are then reduced from that net tax capacity to arrive at the tax capacity that's used for the tax rate those two components are tax increment and fiscal disparities and so our fiscal disparities has been pretty flat but our tax increment has been increasing [Music] significantly and we'll kind of move on to looking at some graphs for our Levy fiscal disparity dollars and our LGA and transfers in um our Levy has uh has increased 7.4% on average over the last nine years um our fiscal disparity dollars has averaged a 3.1% increase over the past nine years and again the fiscal disparity dollars reduces the amount of Levy that is paid by property taxes um our LGA has averaged a 1% increase over the past nine years and I know we've had a number of discussions on LGA and for a number of years uh there was a huge concern that um the state may start taking away um local government Aid um that hasn't happened happened at this point in time um and actually in the last legislative session they actually incre increased um local government Aid so um again if if local government Aid were to go away um we get a total um uh including general fund and we put some into streets and we put some into um the parks uh we get approximately about $1.6 million in the local government Aid so again you can see that what type of impact that would be if you take that 1.6 million and divided it by the 71,000 it would have a significant Levy increase impact for the city and then transfers um transfers in um has decreased $659,000 over the past 9 years uh the significant decreases were in 2017 and 2018 um and by reducing those um it contributes to your tax rate increase um and I have a slide here that'll kind of show you that component to it so first uh graph that you're seeing right now will depict the overall Levy that um the city has and that includes the general fund um Economic Development Authority and the Housing and Redevelopment Authority and you can see that um since 2015 it was at about 3.9 and it's now at $7.3 million um in uh the payable 2024 uh again that's averaging about 75% Levy increases on an annual basis um fiscal disparities you can see it it it significantly Rose from 2015 to 2020 um you see there's a dip in 2020 to 2021 um that dip that's created in 21 and 22 and it stays there um a large part of that has contributed to the 0% um Levy um that was done in 2021 um uh you know during the the co time um since that since that time um our levies have been closer to the market value and the net tax capacity increases so we've pretty much have held um our ground in the fiscal disparity dollars but again you can see at nearly $1.3 million if we were not a winner in the fiscal disparities um we would have a significant increase um um in our tax capacity rate and again um over 85% of that would of that increase would be a burden on our um residential side property um this graph right here depicts the general fund local government Aid and the transfers in um the orange graph up on top is local government Aid and you can see that's been pretty stagnant um it's been pretty pretty consistent over the years um and this is what's included in the general fund um so it's been you know it's within $100,000 from where it was in 2015 so it's been been a pretty steady um resourceful income even though that there's been talk in the past um but at the state level of reducing local government Aid um you can see the transfer in um in 2015 and 2016 was about almost uh 1.5 million um that was reduced over time right now we've been transferring in about $820,000 what a transfer in is is that it's transferring money um from your utilities from your um Eda and HRA in the tune of $820,000 to the to the general fund so in other words you're subsidizing your core Services of the city um by the dollar amount of $820,000 if you were to reduce and get away from transfers again you're looking at an approximately 12% Levy increase to be able to get off of that dependency of of transferring in um the mayor had shared with me uh that at the time uh a number of years ago when he was looking at buying a home and he was looking at a home here in North St Paul and he was also looking over at Maplewood and uh one of the decisions that uh he made outside of the of North St Paul being a much better City um was that uh the tax rate was significantly less than Maplewood part of that reason is you're absolutely right it was uh but part of it was because we were subsidizing the general fund um by more um transfers from our utilities and you can see that being depicted in here um that there was a significant drop um in the 20 uh 20 17 uh in 2018 and you'll also see I'll show you the uh chart on our our tax rate and you'll see in that 2017 and 2018 where our actually tax rate goes up significantly once we get off of that transferring in so now we'll take a look at that tax rate and uh the city tax rate has increased in in average of 0.9% over the P past nine years uh the city has a third highest tax rate in Ramsey County and that's significant um and you can see how it's changed over the years but again if you look at what happened in 2017 and 2018 um you know we we jump up over three percentage points in our tax rate and that's um mainly due to um reducing the transfers in from our utilities um here as uh just a graph of showing what the payable 2024 um tax rates for the cities that um are solely or partially in uh Ramsey County and you can see that um we're only behind as for for the highest and that's not the greatest thing to be at uh behind St St Anthony's and St Paul um and we've now caught up and surpassed Maplewood um with our tax rate um another question that had been asked in the in the years past is is how do we compare on our utilities and so we went out to a number of websites from cities um that are around here um and then we made the Assumption of utilizing a 12,000 gallon water consumption on a monthly basis um so we would have something to be able to do a do an annual calculation on what the cost would be for for the utility portion um and so this is what it showed to us um and as you can see we um got information from Lake Elmo vness sites Oakdale Woodbury Cottage Grove and North St Paul and mountains view um and you can see where we're at today um if you take water waste water surface utility and garbage um we are um about $400 higher than the the nearest one to us um being U Mounds View closely followed then by vness Heights and then Lake Elmo um now the question is why do we have such a high utility rate well it really comes down to two components one it's the transfers that I have talked about um so we currently transfer 2 $5,000 on an annual basis from the water utility to the general fund and $145 from the waste $145,000 from the Wastewater to the general fund and $80,000 from surface water to the general fund if you were to reduce those and bring them down to zero again they those would have a right now would have a significant impact on our property tax rate but the last column there with the aster of North St Paul that's what it would do uh for our residential side of our utilities um for the water Wastewater surface water um and garbage doesn't change um but that's we would still be approximately $26 higher than mountains view um that's significantly um or the biggest contributing component to that is our Capital needs it's our infrastructural needs um that we have in the city and those have been included in our uh Capital Improvement plan but in the in the in the approved um Capital Improvement plan that we from last year from 2024 to 2033 um between bonding and and uh what was going to come what's on the plan for bonding and and for the water fund um there's a total of almost $15 million worth of capital needs um when we look at waste water we're going to see that there's over 10 million uh when we look at surface water there's another 10 million um those are really the contributing factors that make up that other $260 if we didn't have those huge infrastructural needs um and it really has contributed um in a large part to our streets um because anytime we do a full reconstruction in our streets there's a street component there's a water component a Wastewater component and a surface water component that's there and those are all included in the capital Improvement plan in addition to that we have some relatively big expenditures that are on the horizon for the water one being the water tower um and then um we have to replace all of our meters um that we have uh because they're coming to the end of their useful life uh so there's some significant um capital expenditures that are on the horizon what this is showing is something that I've been trying to say for the last couple of years is that it's so important when we get into that Capital Improvement program that we're really having and spending the time on our dialogue and looking at what our Capital needs are and and asking ourselves the questions is there better better way of doing this or other ways of doing it um and the reason is because it's such a driving factor in our overall budgets and you're seeing it and how it has an impact on our utility rates um so when we come to that component this year we really need to have that serious dialogue and and whether there's some assumptions on on useful life of of components that we we push out um if there's things that we need need to make tough decisions that we don't replace it um for a number of years or so forth um but um we need to kind of look at some different components there to see what we can do to try to reduce that um Capital um expenditure component because it drives so much of our budget so with all of that information um kind of want to bring us back to which um council member Cole said just sound like we just finished this and D he's absolutely right we just did um so where we left off with the 2024 general fund budget and and we've shared these in the past so again this is kind of our general fund budget showing it Revenue by category and you can see um we have a large dependency on uh advalorium taxes property taxes uh where 56% of our revenue is coming from property taxes and our intergovernmental which includes that local government Aid makes up 19% so you can already see 75 % of our general fund revenue is coming from those two sources and then the other financing source which is the the third biggest at 8.5 is the transfers in um so we're already over 83% of our Revenue um you know and when you look at a budget um there's really two sides to it there's one your expenditure and one your Revenue um and you can see where our Revenue sources are so it means that um we really need to start looking at is there other ways to generate some revenue for the city um and um you know we briefly have thrown out the idea last year and we we did some exercises of of maybe that there's um you know with the the legislative change uh for the Cannabis distribution maybe that's something that the city looks into more seriously um um another thought that I you know have had um is that maybe we contact uh our legis lators and and see if there's a willingness to change the municipal liquor um statute um that currently says that um municipals with a population of 10,000 or less can run their own Municipal liquor store uh maybe we can get that changed maybe we can increase that population from 10,000 to 15,000 um it was kind of interesting I I went out to um uh the State website and pull down the other day and pulled down the population for cities in the state of Minnesota I I was amazed that that well well well over the majority are underneath 10,000 um if we were to change that from 10,000 to 15 it would impact 28 cities um and then there's probably I didn't count the the upper part to it there may be about 80 cities that are above the $155,000 threshold so maybe that's something that we could get um you know State legis ation to make a change that we could end up having a municipal liquor store throwing out those two ideas because what it's illustrating is that we need to come up and think differently to be able to come up with some other Revenue source for the city um so we don't continue to put a burden on our residents um the other side of the equation is expenditures and that's going to be coming through our budgetary process we're going to have to take hard looks at things um and kind and there's a couple slides here kind of show you just a prelimin area look of where we're looking at for 2025 so we're going to have a lot of work to do uh the next slide shows our expenditures by categories um and uh Personnel is 64% um and contractual Services is 28% so again you're seeing the two driving factors on this side um you know um being approximately 83% of our expenditure budget in the general fund uh expenditures by departments you're seeing the you know for 20 for the 2024 budget um Police makes up 43% uh law enforcement uh makes up um just shy of 15% so you're you're seeing what is known as Public Safety um that we're you know 59% of our budget is Public Safety um and so I mean those are areas that you know you know maybe we need to take a look at and you always look at some of the biggest areas first to see if there's some way to to reduce any expenditures um take a look at where we're at right now and there it's a number of assumptions and we can look at those but just to kind of give you an idea of just kind of a very preliminary prelimin area where we're looking at for the 2024 budget estimate again really after I'm done here and just a couple more slides I really want to get a discussion with city council and kind of get a direction of where where we're looking at these budget numbers are department heads have not prepared them we're just taken from where we're at last year making some assumptions of kind of where we could be at really looking for city council to say Hey you know we really need to to bring in a levy at such such a percent and it's going to be less than than what's going to be depicted here um what we're looking at right now for an estimate is a 7.6% estimated Levy increase what that uh what makes up that is our salary and related benefits um and the number that you're seeing there um the 173,000 that is taking the assumption that there's a 3% cost of living uh we all know that um all of our Union contracts are up at the end of this year um I'm just using the 3% um because that's what our current contracts have um and then also step increases so we're doing a a salary projection based upon the assumption um also uh workman comp compensation costs um increase of about uh 46,000 um the financial plan for building maintenance allocation and if you remember that that was an area our facilities that um Des desperately will need um Financial Capital help in the future um that uh what we've shown in the capital Improvement plan um is not in my estimate uh it's a far cry from being totally comprehensive um but included in the CIP for 2024 was to have a facility assessment of our facilities so we could really put good numbers into um our Capital Improvement program um so then we can make sure that we're planning um to have funds that would be adequate to take care of our facility needs and boy this thing's terrible uh and then the equipment um allocation costs based upon our financial plans um needed a 4% um increase um only amounts to 20 there we go only amounts to $20,000 um and then um our other line items we basically just made the Assumption of a 3% increase again department heads have not looked at it it's not looking at each individual contract it's just trying to get something out um to kind of um make make you aware of kind of where we're thinking we're at um and then we started last um started this year last year's budget um process that we included a 2% for our Street Maintenance remember we developed a plan for 10 years um and um if you remember that that 2% was basically to hold us to where we were at with our road rating um which was somewhere in the 50s it wasn't moving us up higher um it was a way to start getting um us moving in the right direction um to maintain and then hopefully in the future um possibly increasing that um to be able to increase the the ratings on our roads and then we also had a 1% that was dedicated uh for Building Maintenance in parks and again um I you know that 1% for building in Parks isn't going to be enough um but that's what is making up this 7.6% um estimate for the 2025 budget um unknowns um like I had mentioned just a little while ago um all of our contracts are up uh we're going to have Union negotiations and so those will determine what that cost of living increase right now at that 7.6 is including a 3% um again uh facility assessments of our properties um we have not been adequately taken care of our facilities um and so we desperately need to find out what those numbers are and making sure that we putting the right amount of money aside um to take care of our facilities now and into the future um there again department heads haven't submitted um any of these numbers so there's uh no changes in the uh full-time equivalence the FTE um you know don't know if there's any um you know um additional FTE that are going to be required from department heads or are asked for um but this does not include any of that um and then it raises that question um yeah we've got uh we're looking at that 2% Levy for our streets should that be higher um if we want a higher uh rating in our roads um Parks um I think we split that 1% um I think 045 and 0.55 of that um went between parks and Facilities um should both of those be increased um and then um what's been an ongoing dialogue is is the community center um and and what impact that would have on an operational side to it Andor a capital side to it for um the city and and where do we find that funding and and what type of impact that'll have on the the levy so with that just trying to to find out what your initial reaction to all this information um what parameters should we establish to make decisions that impact the the budget either a capital or operating basis and what percentage of Levy increase is tolerable with all the information presented so I'm turning this over to you um get your feedback questions and hopefully we can get some direction uh that uh Brian and I can pass on to the department heads and start to really develop a budget to come back and have meaningful dialogue with city council well thank you Dan I appreciate we all appreciate this update I think it's uh very important I'd like to see it uh just a synopsis every quarter just to see because I think we just have to stay on top of this especially with the numbers we're seeing I think it's going to it's definitely going to have to be in in front of us more so thank you for putting this together I'll start yep um couple questions for and again thank you uh great present presentation I appreciate all the information um really helpful to put this in um forward to us um going to start with your transfers ins slide I I thought there was a big number that wasn't shown there that I was a little bit surprised about we voted for 1.1 million transfer in from the electric uh correct this is a depiction of what's in the general fund um that one point 1 million went to the street fund um to start that that's why you're not seeing that okay in in this this is the general fund that has a direct impact on our taxpayers um yeah um and for the 7.9 um percent increase that you're forecasting right now um that's only with the statute or the the the transfers in that are currently on the books the the standard 300 from Electric and those right there's nothing bigger correct right that's that's holding it at that $820,000 okay correct and how long does the moratorium go for local tax I believe another year those were my questions about the information presented to us thank you very much I know that um when I was talking to um Brian there was some streets and some other things that were coming in at Double what we thought they were going to come in is that correct Brian yes some of the uh Road reconstruction projects that we looked at next one up is uh Gerald bule area um that initially that project was going to be including the Chisum area as well but once they saw the prices come in that was had to be cut in half found that was some of the other things that were out there also last year we had funds that we thought we were going to be able to redo the parking lot out at mcnight um Fields um that ended up coming in double the cost of what we thought it was going to be so that was put off um just we just haven't seen these prices settle down since we've seen these huge creases um partly due to the pandemic and that that's just uh supply line issues to just general costs it's seen some high rates increases so by the kind of the prices with that with that 2% for the for the streets that's probably going to be a little little weak then when it comes to uh looking forward probably well I I think absolutely um you know and again just just from the information that we had last year just of where this was going to if we were able to do what was on the plan that it was going to hold our rating pretty much a slight increase uh but again it was still rated in like the 50s on 100 point scale um so if you're what you're hearing from Brian is if we not able to do all of that um we're not even going to be able to attain that so yeah so we're we're looking that you would end up having to to bump that up and that 2% Levy for the streets actually came be part of this because of the no not having assessments so that's when we put when the council put money into there because for a while there there was no assessments and no extra money put in correct correct so now we're starting to feed the piggy bank yeah there there's there's that and then um you know I think at the time that uh the decision was made not to do special assessments um the plan for the streets was um was basically um every other year to do a major reconstruction in bonding um we on our plan now it's not only that but it's also this pavement preservation um component that has been added um that that's really where that $1.1 million transfer to help get that off the ground and get going that and plus in this year we um increased the levy 2% to put it in um to the Street Maintenance to be able to to carry out that plan um you right there you can see that we weren't so those two those two contributing components requires us to Levy something that maybe in the last plan there wasn't the need for a levy um but we would have never been able to increase our um streets uh rating um with the the plan that was I think presented at the time that the city council made the decision not to do special assessments so at the end of the day yes that's a contributing factor and we've also tried to pick up the plan a little bit so we don't lose too much ground on our street um rating program with pavement preservation component we seen those high C costs as well with the healthy part project that was initially going to be done last year but the quotes came in so high that we couldn't do it and then unfortunately enough we got a $400,000 Grant so we were able to do the project for coming for this year but the prices have just gone really high yeah when I look at all these numbers they're pretty shocking and you look at this is you know my house my budget if I knew that uh you know these are the expenses I don't think 7.6 would even keep me out of the hole I'm I'm just treading the way it looks to me we're not really gaining anything We're just trying to hold still I unfor unfortunately um I think that's a pretty accurate depiction of it yes and that's not with adding you know some new services or or yeah or really I guess raising the bar um so yeah I think that's pretty accurate and um the good part to it is is that um you know we did start raising Levy for our streets and our parks and and our fac facility so we're aware um of the need um so I think we're on the right path I think we're doing a better job you know as far as developing that comprehensive Capital Improvement plan um you'll see um in um the month of May our our financial statements um will be totally complete um and you've heard me say it before um you know we we did well in all of our you know as far as our fund balances um in the general fund um in our Enterprise funds um so if we were just to do a snapshot and stop time right now from a pure Financial standpoint we're sitting good um so what this means is that this budget will be a very critical budget and what I mean by that is we're sitting in a very good position that if we really make smart strategic planning processes in decisions moving forward for the city we got we got a good opportunity in in time to get ourselves out of the pickle that we're in today um and so um it's really to make those churns um in this budget um coming up um and that's really why we wanted to try to give all the information out ahead of time before we even have department heads even starting that budget process Dan I have a question for you about tax disparity um right now Ju Just in whole numbers we transfering about eight 8 and a qu million or I sorry $825,000 from our Enterprise funds yes 820,000 yep correct by not having that on our tax levy how much money are we losing in fiscal disparity I would have to do a calculation um I can't just get off the off the top um I would assume yeah we're definitely losing something on fiscal disparities but you're you're then well it's one way or the other it's either your utilities are higher or your property taxes are higher um you know the residents are going to pay for it um so in other words what I'm saying is that if if we didn't do those transfers we actually could for to drop down our utility rates and and that was that option that was way over to the right hand side on the graph but you would be raising your property taxes um and so um you know the median value home is going to pay for it one way or the other but um you would save you would save some but I'd have to do a calculation to figure out what that would be I don't think it would be I'm thinking maybe under $100,000 that it would save okay thank you it's just helpful for me know what numbers we're talking about yep um that's a great I'm going to feed off of that one you said there too because you said either you pay the higher utilities or the higher property taxes correct correct so I'm looking and we're the second highest for the pretty much property tax rate and we're the highest for um utility rate so we got high on both of them is that correct am I wrong on that um that's where we're at yeah you're correct so right now St Paul 300 and something thousand Maple Woods you know 35 40,000 you know as the small ones what our population we're closer to Mountainville which is 34 and we're at 43 that's usually the one we compare ourselves when people ask questions usually we go it's Mounds you when it comes to kind of our sister city for size and different things is that correct yeah that's correct I mean they're uh about the you know closer in size population's almost identical um they just have more of a commercial uh makeup than we do okay um yep so they're not a bedroom community probably then they have a little more commercial little little bit more commercial um we're carrying a considerable amount more in debt um than they are um and that's part of again the 2% for the streets was to try to get off of some of that dependency on our our debt um in part of that 10-e plan thank you I can see where you mean pickle when I look at those two things together just to mention another speed bump that could happen uh depending on the water Appropriations lawsuit that's out there um the DNR could force us to go on surface water which that would be it's hard to tell what that would be for extra rates but they would probably they'd be selling us water on the wholesale level um did they ever talk about what that cost if say it's a million dollars if we had to tap into that who would pay for that cost I thought we were done with that once we signed our thing no that's why we signed it well we agreed to some of the uh steps that were on there but the DNR has the ultimate Authority they can come back and say you don't have to uh or you need to get on surface water and that goes with every city that's in that lawsuit I thought we had a once if we stayed under the gallons and agreed to there I thought that was the end of it I was of that same understanding yeah that was the frustrating part about that is how little we use are well within their parameters but we're kind of the lwh hanging fruit um as far as proximity to tapping into a surface water through Maplewood on a future Workshop because I'm in the same opinion of all these were that was done can we have an update on that absolutely because I I thought it was to bed as well we have just the man here that knows all about that oh okay thought that's way had a s of relief okay oh no you ready for me I don't know uh I don't have a ton um I do see 2025 planning is we have a lot more headwind than Tailwind um I think that the Union contract coming up for 2025 uh the timing of the last one was beneficial for us it was done well before um you know a lot of the increases took place um and I would assume that there may be um some some they may be looking to even up the score um to B to balance it out a little bit so I I I do see uh I would love if we could keep it at the 3% number um we'll have to we'll have to time will tell in the next six months um the decision in 2019 to pass the zero Levy predicated on Co did that put us in more of a tail spin long term is that part of the pickle that you reference you know it it did from the standpoint um to achieve that 0% I believe there was a reduction of four FTE um which if you recall um in 2023 budget we brought it back FTE so that was a part of that you know that Levy so yeah um so it did put us back you know a step or two we we did catch ourselves up in 2023 PR pretty much with the FTE part to it um and that was really kind of our focus and then last year was our focus on really starting to dedicate plans to help with our infrastructure which will be another component to to the 2025 budget um I mean what has in your opinion what has contributed to the situation the position that we're in you your term pickle um well I'll I'll just I'll just cut straight to the chase um I I think there's been a lack of planning in the past um and that's where I you know you've heard me say it over and over again I think that the CIP plan is is so critical uh because that's really your road map moving into the future um and then once that's developed you have to stick to it um and um you know we have to avoid going sideways um and delaying things U for maybe some other type of purposes that that come along our way but I I think what you're seeing is that there's a catch-up and that infrastructure um we've let our roads go down well we can't stay there we have to start building it back up which we started last year um and hopefully we Contin continue in this upcoming year um there's work that our staff has to do um we need need that facility assessment uh we need to find out our conditions of our facilities city city since I've been here city council has done one heck of a great job of supporting and and um making those tough decisions on raising levies um um and I believe that if it's Justified it'll continue but if staff doesn't bring the true numbers of what things are going to cost we can't plan accordingly um and so we really that that the IP is probably the biggest component that that's there um and you know there's been decisions in the past that um and again you'll never hear me say it was a right de you know that it was a wrong decision I mean there's there's long-term benefits that can be achieved short run they can kind of hurt um you know a heavy investment in your Seventh Street um you know in the Tiff districts they hurt in the short run long run they're going to help I mean in any book on economic development that you go out there you got to build density if you're going to to build any economic um you know businesses in TRC in the area but they hurt in the in the short run um and so it's kind of where we're at but I I think to me again snapshot and time fund balances are in excellent shape we've started a plan if we continue on that plan um but we need to be aware that we are on the high side of well as mayor said everything um so we have to strike a balance I think that's for questions wise that's all I have I just I um kind of in the same camp with the mayor that keeping it at 7. whatever may may be a struggle um we're going to have to look have to look tight and I actually wrote it down but I thought I would end with it as opposed to lead with it uh compliment to you I just want to thank you for the long-term financial plan the 10-year plan um that came into being after it didn't exist before you came here so thank you for thank you for the foresight of looking forward and helping get us in the right path right direction thank you thank you any you indicated for direction yes and how to direct you guys moving forward I encourage that all the department leads evaluate their needs wants desires um I know that we were up for some fleet with fire department do we really I mean everything I want everything evaluated I'd like to see it all if it's if we have a truck that's decent and we are up for a new one do we really need a new one um you we're putting off some of these roads that us taxpayers are paying for and instead we're building up a new truck or something like that that we don't necessarily need let's put that money to road that we we need to get fixed I'd like to see that all evaluated very carefully that that'll be the direction on on the CIP absolutely I would also like to see you know you continue with your skills and suggestions I mean this is your this is what you do I mean this is you know you have the pulse of the finances and understanding and coming to us with you know concerns and that's why I said like to see this if we can do it you know quarterly just to understand how we're looking if we're improving some if we're not just being able to you know it's it it's not going to be good news some of it we but we can't avoid it we just have to hit it head on we have to decide we have to make priorities we have to take care of some things and we just I think this council's done a very good job of taking things you know go after things that you know it's it's hard to do and we work our way through it and stand back up and we go to the next one so I think we're going to have to do that with the budget too on this one we just got to have the information and willing to help we just got to know what we just got to have a presented like you said if the staff could present and understand you know what we have that really goes a long way so we appreciate that okay we'll do I'd like to Echo um what my uh fellow coun well councilman's by counc okay UMC member we're council members all us but you're mayor so I didn't know how to um uh and also if possible if you could present to us a few areas where we might be able to tighten the belt in some places that don't long-term hurt us so when we're making the choices in June July um we have some I if we need to tighten the belt there's some areas that are smart to do it and not long-term punitive for us okay you also mentioned the assessment on the buildings is that in the I heard that last year too is that um uh facility assessments is that going to be coming up yes that was there um it was funded in the CIP plan for this 2024 I'm not 100% sure where it's at I think the last time I'd heard that there were a couple of proposals that were received oh good um so it's still moving forward yeah okay perfect thank you because this building's 20 years old now and we're starting to get to that point we all own you know cars houses whatever we know we get to a certain point and money goes in y anything else anybody just thank you yeah thank I thank I thank you for this opportunity to to share some information and get us thinking and I know the year-long budget process uh but then I don't get to see as much so I can I kind of enjoy this so this is this is good but oh we we've got a we've got a lot of work to do and um I I I kind of play off of a um of a comment on our last um budget cycle and it was I think more the comment came up when we were looking at the capital Improvement plan and uh it was council member Cole had said what he would really like to see is the department heads to really wrestle with those tough ideas and bring their highest and best priority list to the city council instead of having the city council be the ones um you know making those those TP decisions um and so I I I Echo that and I think I'm hearing it not just on the CIP but this year but I'm also hearing it on the the operating budget where we really do need to the department has need to work as team and present a solid city manager budget to you um and then um let you ask the questions that you need but we need to be on the same page on our side so and that's great because when we're not here every day we're working you know we have our job so we know what is presented to us we're not walking around you know City Hall talking to people you know how is a going you know cool water cooler chat or anything like that it's we have to know from you guys because we're we're just here on on Tuesdays and other meeting days so it's definitely important all right if there's nothing else call for German so move council member Cole second second council member Norby all those in favor say hi hi I thank you very much we have two minutes or so so stretch for then we'll start round two thanks d y appreciate it