you budget detail this is the first meeting that works session that we go over the budget detail you've had your workbooks you've had several budget meetings to date already where you discuss priorities and and set the max tax and so we are coming up to the final meetings we also have set aside a work session November 26th if it if it's necessary and we're hoping to get through everything tonight but if you have things that you want to further discuss as a council that work session is available and then the next council meeting is Tuesday December 3rd and that would be the adoption of the 2020 budget and CIP and approve the top 40 tax levy and the fee schedule those meetings all begin at 5:30 at Burnsville City Hall here they can be watched live on our website and the address is there on this slide you can also find more information about the budget and the budget document on our website and when we start out looking at our budget we really take into account the council's mega end statement the that how are we going to deliver services to meet a community needs that we're looking at being a well balanced city with amenities and using partnerships and a wide range of opportunities to live work learn and play for a reasonable investment so that is the base of what we do when we began the budget process last June these were the considerations that were our guide to developing the budget we always start with sound financial policies council has their financial management plan that provides the constraints for setting the budget one of the big focuses we have is to maintain a fund balance of at least 35 percent of next year's expenditures so that we have enough cash flow and then a contingency above that and we look at council priorities when we are looking at how we set up the budget of course staff are careful to make recommendations that build on a foundation for a sustainable future we have our five-year financial plans for every fund that the city has and in your budget document you have that that gives you two years worth of history the current year where we're looking at being it for 2019 and a projection for 2020 as well as four years into the future with some high-level projections of where these decisions that are made for 2020 will lead future budgets we also look at how to deliver current services most cost-effectively and seeing the highest quality services for the lowest cost much of the increases are attributed this year to increases in cost of doing businesses such as annual maintenance contracts and and increases in wages health insurance workers compensation PRA contributions all of those things that affect us as a service organization staff in all areas looked at current service levels and reviewed operations to find ways to deliver the services that are expected each year brings new challenges and new opportunities to meet those challenges and changing needs or keeping an eye on the future and new priorities back in September council met and set a preliminary tax levy that we refer to as the max tax that's the maximum levy that increase that you can approve at this point which is a six percent increase and that's the total city levy and EDD a levy combined we look at those levies combined because you have control over both of those levies so we like to be as transparent as possible and look at those things as as combined levies also it was discussed a plan to increase the utility franchise fees to provide long term sustainable funding for maintaining and replacing the city's facilities this allows for less debt and more Pago funding for a lower total cost of maintaining the facilities in the long run the alternative to this is to raise property taxes in the future for debt levies and capital replacements and/or to reduce the council's priorities for replacement of those facilities plans that would be the alternative of the franchise fee increase and then that would likely require additional debt and the extension on the term of debt as we go forward if that were the case this is new this year we did a one-pager front and back that we included in the most recent Burnsville bulletin it's also included in your budget workbook and included on our website it just gives you a high level high overview of what the key points of the budget are so I would encourage everyone to take a look at that particular piece so what does this budget accomplish we feel like we've met the goals that we set out in June with this proposed budget we looked at economic development priorities and funded those the EDA levy has been reduced which provides future capacity for funding the council's priorities and objectives in this area some of the expenditures remote to the general fund so you'll see a corresponding increase in the general fund for that but it does free up the EDA levy debt service has been consolidated and simplified and we continue to take advantage of refunding opportunities and and the use of debt wisely so we're trying to minimize debt but use it where it is appropriate franchise fees are proposed to moderate property taxes in the current year and in future years and the increase is proposed as a one-time increase without future proposed increases in the foreseeable future of this plan to the franchise fees infrastructure and enterprise funds are managed in a fiscally responsible manner designed to maintain the city's assets responsibly and at the heart of it all is maintaining a high service quality so how do we perform all of those governmental services that are the citizens expect from us in areas such as Public Safety and Community Development and Engineering Road Street maintenance park maintenance all of those different areas how does the six percent levy impact individual property owners there are many things in the formula that impact an individual property tax bill of all of those things up there so where do we look at residential value changes the market value homestead included exclusion changes as property values change commercial values change differently than residential there's new construction the TIF district D certifies and fiscal disparities change of all of the things that are on this chart you as a city council have control over just the city levy increase so that levy increases 6% how it affects individual property taxes are based on a lot of different things and it will vary by property in Burnsville in 2020 the median valued home so that's the the home that's right in the middle there half the homes are lower valued and half the homes are higher valued that's risen about 5% that's very close to the average increase as well which was about six point nine percent in valuation across all residential properties so in 2020 the the median home is two hundred and sixty seven thousand five hundred for commercial and industrial that's so closer to an eight percent increase overall so in 2020 total commercial and industrial was 1.7 billion dollars of value in the city of Burnsville since we last met the we did have received some updated valuations when you saw this chart or a similar chart the average that are the median valued home increase was more like a three point seven percent because the valuations changed and we have some fiscal disparities numbers that came in it is now two point five percent with that six percent increase so we had some valuation changes we had fiscal disparities exact numbers which I had had some conservative estimates as part of that as I was calculating the tax rate so that's good news from the last time you saw this the other that that's the middle column to the left is a example of a two hundred thousand dollar home something that was that was valued 200,000 last year if that increased that home increased by 5% it's more like 2.7 percent and for a 400,000 about 2.1 percent now every home will be different because every valuation changes at a different rate they do not apply a set percentage increase across the board it is based on all kinds of sales data and the county goes in and review the properties in every certain number of years so it changes neighborhood by neighborhood and house by house but as as an average this is what we're looking at so the the monthly increase of a 6% levy is about 2.2 dollars and 25 cents a month at this level this is just a little excerpt out of that one-page document I showed you a few slides ago and where does the where does the services where do the dollars go for services just to give you kind of a flavor for how much the median valued home is paying for these various services so and that's on a per month basis and so for that for the property taxes that are collected in Burnsville that funds police protection funds fire protection and ambulance services now ambulance services there's also fees associated with that but there is a there's a property tax portion of that maintaining roads and parks and vehicles park amenities enhancing a park amenities so your parks capital fund natural resources recreation opportunities promoting strong neighborhoods and maintaining property values or your economic development initiatives and then replacing and moving roads and then just efficient and effective services as we look at organizational services this slide gives you a lot of detail but for one slide but it shows you where the property taxes are increasing and what that level of property tax would be that 6% represents a total of 2.1 million dollars of increase the city levy is increasing and the eda levy is decreasing and as I mentioned earlier we're moving expenses from the EDA fund to the city and I think in the end it's a little more efficient way of doing business and so we're doing that this year so the getting into some of the the specific fund details we're looking at the facility we have a facilities fund and back in 2014 I believe it was we did a facility study identified that there were a lot of long term needs a lot of deferred maintenance and and also replacement needs that were facing the city and we implemented at that time to fund phase 1 a franchise utility franchise fee and that was used to replace the remodel the police facility add on the garage and then we were looking to the future for expanding or doing replacing fire station 1 and working on fire station 2 in the future and some improvements to City Hall in the future it was a long-term plan why did we go with franchise fees at the time it was to diversify that the revenue stream for this and so that all properties and Burnsville would contribute to this basic maintenance of the city's facilities it's even tax-exempt properties we'll pay a franchise fee on the their utility bill so that expands the the base all revenue collected on franchise fees stays in the community so that is another nice thing it doesn't affect the fiscal disparities calculation so it is if it's collected in Burnsville it stays here in Burnsville how many how many taxes on properties do we have in Burnsville do you know offhand I don't have that we can get that information for you that'd be nice thanks yes did I may have had that in the background but we'll get that for you and what we're proposing for this budget process is to increase the franchise fee to provide for the long term stability fund that fire station one replacement and the future changes to City Hall and Fire Station two we did look at what other cities of our comparable size and then the metro area are charging for franchise fees and we used our revenue and fee management guidelines as we're looking at that and we're Burnsville falls in there so that was also considered as we look at this year's budget we look at where projected property tax increases for current service levels would be these are very conservative estimates as we look at what are the projected increases in costs and what are the projected increases in other revenues and fees and that sort of thing and and and we like to be conservative as we're looking at projecting say permit fee revenue or EMS revenue as some of our bigger ones we don't project those to be aggressive because that would would distort this that can and we hope to come in better in the future but we are looking at future increases of five percent to four and a half percent over the next four years if we yes how much of the current cranes in the air projects and you include in your forecast so in these forecast these are straight levy dollars as opposed to the tax base that it would be spread over so I think you're getting at how would that affect those individual properties back when we were talking about like the median home value is gonna see more like a two and a half percent this year so that is is a difficult one to project but it since there are properties that are going up in buildings that going up there is guaranteed that there is going to be an increase in the tax base that that is all spread to so you can expect that it would be something less than this so those numbers 5 5 4 4 net for net actually don't include any of the anticipated valuations to come online and those projects get booked to the gotcha this is a true worst-case scenario for the most part yes you know we could always have an economic downturn or other unexpected things unfunded mandate some increases in costs and inflation's and those kinds of things we do the best we can but you've completed the compensation study so we know those things are rolled in here and that's a phased increase that's already in there we're building labor contracts off of that we estimate that there are gonna be some inflationary expenses current expenses and we're not projecting that our permit revenue is maintaining I have us a site and one of the future slides it talks about permit revenue where it's been and where it's going we don't we try to keep that more at a level or conservative and if those things come in higher than those help offset this in the future as well but we don't want to over project and because we don't it's so volatile based on the economy so that's the projected levy but the tax expansion would have mitigate the expense to the homeowner or the property owner yeah so we do the levy itself you're craftsmen if we do not have an increase in the franchise fees that means that we would have to issue debt if to fund fire station one we still we are issuing debt but we were funding the plan is to fund that through franchise fees if the franchise fees don't increase then that would mean that we would have to fund that through a debt service levy and so that would mean a big jump in 2020 to 2021 to fund the debt service and then there would be some increased maintenance kinds of things that we're planning on to come out of franchise fees so that's why you see the purple the purple bars I should have explained the green bars or the chart you just saw the purple bars are if we don't increase franchise fees these are the kinds of increases you would be looking at in the following years and then 2024 again is another big jump because that's when the next phase phase 3 where we're looking at improvements that first City Hall in fire station to those that big jump so again more debt service and the debt service that we have planned is at a more minimal level with franchise fees because we can go more Pago will still have some debt service but we're able to go more Pago so you have less enter cos if you are doing it through property taxes we would end up having to to do longer debt probably and also more debt and so then you have interest costs that increase that funding so in you know these projections there are a lot of options that would happen structure as we look at that structure in the future but these are one projections on that constant results so in the green where it says with franchise free fee increase what if you were to add what the difference is on that franchise fee what would that be so we have 5% projected property tax increase for current service levels say in 2021 what is the franchise fee on top of that as a percentage of their properties a percentage because if it's 10% then what does it matter if it's not 10% it matters so it's difficult to make a decision without having that piece of the information so it is I'm Sam Kim's I'm sorry calculating there in my head it would generate three million dollars in 2020 and then there would not be an increase from there on that is a so every 1% in property tax generates about $300,000 so what the franchise fee does for you is mitigate the ups and downs so you're you are really just looking here at at what five years old if so so as you can see the green bars are more level there would be a one-time increase in 2020 and then more level with the debt service you're gonna have more ups and downs so what it would be perhaps if I'm hearing this correctly is if you added it on top in 2021 it would be slightly under the 10% when you look at 2022 though it would be probably higher than the 6.5 percent because it's leveling it out rather than having it go up and down is that correct so it so when you raise the property tax levy it's gonna it's gonna stay at that level and it's because this chart is looking at just increases on it so it grows I'm not sure I'm answering could you state your question again I'm sure so for and I realize that the franchise fee isn't gonna go an additional up each year but every year it is up it would be up over present okay so you have that amount that would be higher than what we have now so if you added that on top that amount that's higher on top of the projected property tax increase what would that look like and if I'm hearing you correctly without raising the franchise fee you have property tax projected property tax increases that go up and down with it it levels it out more and if it levels it out more then that would mean for example in 2021 it would be the 5% projected property tax increase and then an extra amount with that franchise fee that would be a little below the 10% and then in 2022 it would be the 5% but with the franchise fee that would bring it above this the six point five percent if I'm hearing you correctly on that leveling out where is that incorrect so if we were to put the franchise fee increase in it would go in the year 2020 and you would see the big jump in 2020 and then there's no increase so since these are just just the increases as opposed to I think what you're thinking of is the dollar amount how would the dollar amount as a chart look then it would I think that's that's different but it would only show up as an increase in 2020 because there would be no increase on that portion if you're adding the two together you would actually see the green bars come down if you did them together because there's no increase that if you're spreading the increase over the total no that's not what I'm asking there will be an increase there just won't be an additional increase every year but there will be an increase period and that increase will not for example go away in 2021 so it will be there again and it will be there again in 2022 we will not remove the franchise fee if we vote in an additional franchise fee so even though it's not a percentage increase what I'm asking is because how this is positing is this is why we're doing the franchise free because it brings down the projected property tax increases but if the additional amount which is every year it's an additional amount it's not an additional additional amount but it's an additional amount if that amount is basically the same as property tax increases then what's the difference like then what would be the difference if you would just do property tax increases where it goes up and down a little bit or you do that versus the franchise fee with the property into it with the franchise free fee increase so that's the information I'm looking for is there a monetary benefit other than making things more equal is there a monetary benefit to our residents for this franchise free fee with additional property tax increases so the monetary benefit is that it spreads it to more taxpayers so there are more taxpayers pain so each individual is paying a little bit less and then we are able to use more Pago funding so we're not using debt so you're we're not paying for interest on that it'll just phase in Burnsville it's one other because our property tax increases they get confiscated like our property tax is a portion them just get taken away and they're like thank you very much Burnsville residence we will just take this money and give it to some other city correct on the commercial side yes we have to contribute 40% of our into the pool and then there's a calculation and some of it comes back Burnsville the countries were a contributor to that so so some of our property taxes and the commercial properties are going into the pool and going elsewhere so on a franchise fee so for in order for us to raise more property taxes to raise the same amount of property tax it would we'd have to raise more property taxes in order to replace the franchise fees so those are the monetary benefits and those are a little hard to cut to quantify and there also is a much longer view to this as well it's not just these five years when we're looking at it so some of them as as we're looking as I mentioned the purple virus are assuming that we would extend the debt longer so citizens would be paying longer on this then then it under the green method I think that you're asking me to compare the total dollars collected between the two I think that might show the picture that you're that you're asking yeah and also what that looks like for your average residents for what's coming out of their pocket like how does that affect how much money comes out of their their pocket you know is there a benefit to doing that and if I may ask a follow-up question with French franchise fees what can you use them for and what can you not use collected franchise fees for so that is it's based on your policy that in Burnsville we're using them for the facilities and we have proposed in this budget document to expand it slightly to some park facilities and the park trails that are associated with that maintenance of the park of some of the park trails associated with that it matches up to the the expansion of the property tax base as to was paying and the kinds of things that that they that those property owners would value so there will be some overlap like with the hospital and with the school district and some other and nonprofits and churches trails that are we have a lot of trails and they start needing a lot of replacement and but two minutes no no you don't remember Keeley's at his hand up forever we'll come back to you all right so why would a city not eliminate property taxes and just go with franchise fees all does everybody pays it is it's a it is also a different method that that would be a very it that would be a flat so the franchise fees are a flat rate as opposed to the property taxes so you would be talking about setting them do you have I don't I don't know that I don't know that I have it I'd have to check to see if it's statutorily allowed we'd still owe in to those pots of money that yes correct I mean it's um what comes out to a council philosophy right so some cities do a lot of fees some cities do a lot of rely more on the property tax you know so it really depends on the makeup of the city and the council's philosophy and how to collect those revenues I don't know that I've ever thought about or ever asked the question about collecting everything through franchise fees so I I would be interested in examining that further with more data if anyone else is interested in examining that further I can't imagine all how those franchise fees would go to cover property taxes well we can imagine it but we don't know it which is why we would need more information yeah it's a cup of coffee okay right councilmember Keely has a longtime advocate of franchise fees not originally to take out our special assessments because I would like to be one of those cities that doesn't special assess properties when we come through and do the public road but I think that'd be a worthwhile discussion I'd be very interested in learning more about that I think even if it's considering what we use it for broadening that to further reduce the dependency on the levy I would be very interested in that going a hundred percent I'd certainly like to know the answer to that question as council member shirtz Schultz would put forth that would be a very interesting exercise it might be a bit of a stretch but who knows we might learn something we don't know right absolutely um and I'd like everybody to pay because everybody benefits from it question you mentioned a number you said three million is that the dollar amount that's in that ten percent purple pal you'd in your answer to councilmember Schultz you know a couple questions ago you had mentioned there's a three million dollar you knows me for that debt service or whatever so branch franchise fees currently generate 1.2 million dollars and we were talking about changing them from $1 to $4 that would generate an additional 3.6 million for a total of 4 million PowerPoint okay so the increase is 3.6 million right okay so if if you were to a simplistic answer to your question is 10.5% levy increase to raise 3.6 million at three hundred and forty thousand per one point right so it takes ten and a half or ten point six percent of eleven crease just to do what the franchise fee is doing on top of the six percent this year or the five percent next year whichever where you want to put it in levy that that is paying for everything else yes so we'd be looking at a 15 and a half percent levy increase if we said let's just throw the whole burden that we were gonna go after in the franchise fee let's just throw it on the levy and not do the franchise fee that increase of three point six million would send us up to about fifteen point six levy increase to achieve the same dollar goal the reason that it's not quite that big is because you get to that benefit to the question earlier when a hundred percent of the people are putting into the franchise fee it becomes a little less burdensome on the I don't know how what's the rough percentage of properties I don't know if you do it in numbers or in dollars that are off the tax rolls that don't pay property tax is it 15 percent of our 20 percent of our land or whatever I think that we estimated that it generated additional hundred thousand dollars in franchise fees and - from those properties and at the higher rate would be four hundred thousand in the term in terms of property tax I don't know how you really measure that in like number of units of property or acreage or valuation like what's the dollar value that's off the property tax rolls divided into the total property valuation of Burnsville so you know we I know Saint Paul and Minneapolis have really high numbers they have a high percentage of property that does not pay property tax I don't think ours is that high but I've never known the answer to that question what is our percentage of property value that is actually only gonna be paying franchise for everybody no and then what's that quote lost property tax revenue right if it was taxed what would it be that's really what we're trying to cover in the franchise is that is to recapture the lost property taxes on properties that don't pay including the city and the school district dental profits in the form of a franchise fee which is a little in my book even more user-based everyone uses the roads everyone uses the drinking water everyone uses the parks and so tend to think that everyone should be paid for and and we are really only capturing the part that is for the facilities so it's not for the services of policing park maintenance and street maintenance and all those things yes and that was our own self limitation because we wanted to control we didn't want to say our just gonna use franchise means we'll just throw it in the general fund and use it for whatever we want we and I think rightfully so put limitations on what we're gonna do with it we said facilities and that takes a lot of burden off of trying to you know capex all these things like a new firehouse right which is very expensive and so and I think I agree with you expanding the expansion of other facilities and I believe and correct me if I'm wrong the understanding with that decision was parks dedication and you know has its fund and that's what was funding that parks but we don't really have a steady growing stream of park dedication or Park related fees to maintain all of those park assets it was basically deficient in funding and we were struggling and we were constantly having to move funding in that area to be able to fund replacing the buildings and keeping the fences and whatever all of those assets and the parks so expanding our franchise fee to include facilities that happened to be in parks was the right thing to do and in retrospect that we probably should have just done it that way in the first time right just that any facility in the city doesn't matter if it's in the park or not could fall under this you know the benefit of this fund require you to fund it from the franchise fee but it does give the opportunity the option right yeah it it says that it's in the potential right that's necessary budget package together every year it gives you the flexibility to do that so within the parks capital fund just to recap there there's a tax levy within the property tech or within the parks capital fund and that's for maintenance and the park dedication can only be used on new things so as we've used park dedication over the years and as we have more park dedication right now for a period of time here we're adding new things and those new things have to be replaced in the future and those we've added a lot of trails and trails require a lot of maintenance because it's bituminous just like roads and so they need resurfacing and all of those things so that has greatly expanded the the part that needs to be funded from property tax levy so when we were discussing back in September the the thought of using these franchise fees you gave us direction to say how can you moderate property tax increases and that's where we said well we can expand the use of two to all facilities and then we added the the parks trail piece of it because it seems to be sort of related and that it's a facility it's connecting facilities and it's it's a need and a use that is used across all the property owners that are in Burnsville so it was moderating those things and I think just backing up a little bit too there are some other things that we've moderated that was the whole package when we did the franchise videos it was a package deal we had a lot of moving parts if you remember we moved because we did the franchise fees built that into this projection we could move the remainder years of the host fees from the landfill out to the Ames Center and pay back the general fund for that 1.2 million dollar loan so there's host fees that are going to pay back the general fund fund balance which frees up the general fund fund balance to be used on one-time expenditures and and freeing up property tax levies we also simplified the debt structure and the EDA we freed up the EDA fund of their 400,000 of towards that aim Center debt and replace that with general fund and that gives we actually then in total have reduced the property tax portion of that funding so while this is it sort of seems like it's an apples-to-apples it's kind of Apple it's a little bit of apples to oranges in there also you know as as you pointed out the three million would equate to another 10 million on top of the 6% for 20 20 percent on top of this but we're only seeing five percent difference there well that's because I've made assumptions that if we go if we were to go the route of debt service we would extend that service so we wouldn't have as much debt service and that were funding those facilities maintenance needs with property tax levy so the higher amounts in different years and you would see that in the out years as well councilmember keel is gonna have a follow-up question that I'm gonna have a question when he's done okay go ahead okay just so I understand the franchise fee because I wasn't really on board in the beginning but I kind of got on board when I kind of looked at it our franchise fees are kind of a number four dollars a month whatever I'm paying that's not going to change over the years but as we expand our tax base if we go to more housing in the city we have more users in the city the revenue will actually increase without my fee ever going up so we're actually bringing more revenue to the city without raising any property taxes at all through that period of time correct correct I mean that money can be used for right now we're using the facilities but we may get to a point where with some of the density and housing is that we're all looking at through twenty four twenty forty that some of that money can be used for other things besides facilities which would actually help us keep property taxes down through that through that franchisees I'm like wrong in that no you're correct in that another thing that's sort of related to that that I forgot to mention earlier as a monetary benefit to everyone is that the franchise fee starts when people turn on the meter and with property taxes the tax base doesn't come until the year in which the the property probably the year after the property is finished so as the building is being built and starts to it starts to become occupied they their property it takes a while for their valuation to hit the the property tax rolls just because of a timing it's an annual thing we keep ourselves on track we can raise our revenue every year in the city if we keep on track of what the track were on today yes then just here's the the reason I really here's an example of why I like the park facility to be included in this we took a tour mayor and I and I can't remember who else came along and we saw we went to a ball field and one of the dugouts had rotted boards all along the bottom and it was he was like way past time to replace and I think about our Park fund and it's been the victim of of the cuts through those lean years and so we extended the life of these things to the point where it was kind of embarrassing it would be really foolish to stand there and say well you know that needs to be replaced but we can't use those fees from the you know their capital or franchise fees for a couple thing for this building because the sitting in a park but that building that's not sitting in a park we can use it for that so that building you'll get well taken care of this was just gonna have to wait until we find the money didn't make any sense so that's why I really like the facilities being all facilities any other questions so fun bounds policies you've seen this in a previous presentation as well it just again bringing it that we are where when we set the budget we are looking at that fund balance and and making sure we're in the the target area for what we need and fiscally responsible and then use use of fund balance for one-time expenditures as necessary so we don't want to sit on more fund balance than we need we certainly want to have enough that is fiscally responsible but as it is becomes available we're going to look at one-time expenditures to reduce property tax levy this is just a visual of where we are and where the fund balances above the targeted range so we have had some growth in fund balance particularly in 2018 and 2019 and we're projecting growth by the end of 2019 in 2018 our results came in a million dollars ahead of budget so it added if you were if you look at the kafir' it says we increased funds by two hundred seventy thousand but you had actually in your budget plan to spend seven hundred and some thousand dollars so we're ahead of plan for 2018 which grew the fund balance and that was because we had revenues that came in ahead particularly in permits and EMS and then across the board there were savings in expenditures by all departments and that's not unusual the savings in all departments is not unusual we usually come in between one and two percent under budget because we departments take it seriously to stay within their budget sometimes there are things that are out of the control that that's where it is for 2019 projection were projected to be a million dollars ahead in that is looking at permits and Fire Department revenues particularly permit revenues and those permit revenues really are designed to pay for the inspections and community development area and all the support organizational support that are in that area as well and then we had planned some use additional use of fund balance for the compensation study first year implementation if you remember at the very beginning of this year 2019 when we came to you and said this is what the compensation results were and how are we going to phase this in over a number of years there was you know that was a part for to do 2019 the budget had already been set so you were spending fund balance there so those are the major areas where 2019 has changed additionally just what we were talking about because the redirection of the host fees the payback of the aim Center loan over the next two years is gonna provide general fund balance councilmember workman I can you can you clarify the name Center loan for me because I've heard in one meeting that this is gonna extend out to 24 or so and now I'm seeing this is being paid back in 21 there was in the budget we were projecting that we were going to be able to start paying that back that was the longer 2024 before we dedicated the host fees back to the Ames center fund so in dedicating that aimed the host fees back out of the facilities fund and into the aim Center fund it goes back to the general fund quicker then it had so this this loan just as a point of clarification happened when the facility began in the early couple of years projections didn't come in where they were it was the other very beginning of the recession and and host fees from the landfill didn't come in as as they were expected to come in I mean those years so the general fund provided for cash flow that the aim center needed now it's been pretty static for quite a number of years now but and slowly paying back but it would take a much longer period of time to pay back so that's not inferring that the construction loan is being paid off by 21 it's not the construction no not the construction loan it's a secondary one the depth if you were referring to the debt service that's and that's right this has specifics to a separate loan that was issued for operations during recession yeah we sure of the obvious I can deficit keep the light instead of a straight transfer we required it to be alone to be paid back yes just a point of clarification thank you so planned uses of fund balance in this budget are what we've most of them are very consistent with what we've done in the past the sustainability and recycling program comes out of the landfill abatement reserves that came a while ago and our reserves by state statute to be spent on that sort of thing so that draws down that fund balance the council has a ten-year plan to contribute some fund balance to the ice center debt of a hundred and forty thousand a year that comes out of a reserved fund balance as well and then we have consistently used fund balance to fund elections that's an every other year expense so instead of increasing the love you one year and reducing it the next year and up and down we have done fund balance for elections and so we continue to do that for 2020 and of course with a big presidential year that is it's kind of a it's a two hundred twenty thousand dollar estimate at this point in time for elections because as you saw we generated a good number ahead of budget on permits because we've had a lot of activity over the past two years coming in ahead of budget the community development software that was planned to be spent out of the IT capital fund and then therefore would be IT capital levy we are proposing that that is funded through the fund balance that was generated from permits so that reduces the amount that is needed in the IT capital fund over the next five years we are expecting that that Community Development software would probably be a hosted solution at one time we thought it would be a purchase of a big system but we're projecting more there will be an annual cost so we we are planning to do that for five years and then capital equipment transfer there as you saw in your background we're proposing two inspectors one in fire and one in permits and they will need vehicles and so use of that permit and EMS revenue that increased the fund balance to fund the capital needed for that and then there were some fire and police equipment replacement so removed from the general fund to the capital fund so that is just a matter of moving those so there's a there's a few big types of equipment that occur on not annual basis that are better handled in the capital fund to mana moderate those increases in and in property tax levy so we move those to the capital fund and then it has been the council's policy to address entrance monuments on a every other year or I think we've skipped to year did we skip those got two total we have two so we are proposing that there is fund balance available to do another entrance monument of course $75,000 and that would be a use of fund balance and they have in the past we had 50,000 you might have noticed but those the costs of those have increased and so we're allowing 75,000 could I ask a question about the implementation of those where we add in the cycle of getting them all done I know there was gonna be so many of them we're gonna do one a year are we halfway through we have one or two left or is there a lot left so if you think we have seven major highway entrances the 242 s the 213 s and 3 and 35 pulling ones we have completed are the two on 13 so I was driving 494 went in Dean Prairie and saw they got one right in the right-of-way it was which was used to be outlawed right as all that - yes he met savage how are they getting it done Oh so that's so them we contacted Minden said there's some change and they indicated that for sure for the northbound 35 and southbound 35 e there would be a spot for them southbound 35 W is a little more tenuous so that's where we prioritize we do the 235 then will you very wait to see if we can get southbound 35 W and then the 242 would be our last I kind of bring this up because I I'd like to explore options of accelerating getting those done you know the reason we made it a decision to do it once a year 50,000 a year over seven or eight years was we started this decision back when things were quite a bit different now with all these moving parts and all this revenue and the savings coming through can we get these done quicker because with all the building we're doing right now and all these apartments and all this other stuff going on it'd be nice if they were all done and in from my perspective now I know we can't do them all one year but can we look at discussions of how we can take some of this money that we've saved in all these other places and say we just finished this project so all of our entrances have these highly desired monument signs and and so we're done with this installation like says they are every year for five years one year for five years is what's in the current budget right yeah so it's definitely better than every other year but don't take five years to do it yeah faster yeah I just think we I mean at 75,000 and with a million dollars in savings and a million dollars in additional revenue coming in in in through these revenue streams it the reason I put more value on it is it's a huge visible perception benefit for fifty to seventy-five thousand and with all of our growth the building going on I I kind of I'm now questioning why we're staying with that original track that was designed many years ago when things were quite different and is there any way to accelerate it you could argue we get better pricing if you well yeah yeah it's gone off from 50 to 75 because I'm dragging it out right where do you come up with the yeah and we are dragging it out because we've had to afford it not that we suddenly can afford it but it looks like we can with all the savings we're getting in other places and then because by the time we get them done they're gonna be a hundred thousand and now we've paid it cost us what two used to cost to build one because in year four MEU you're saying it went from 1575 when we get the year three four and five what's it gonna be it's not gonna stay at seventy five probably 75 is an estimate as well so it's you know we've had this discussion when it comes to infrastructure and roads and bridge no it's do it cuz everywhere wait it adds substantial costs that we have that discussion at i-35 let's keep pushing to advocate to get it done now it's overdue a need and every time we look at the delay of a year of a year the dollar amount just keeps escalating exponentially five and thirteen classic example I think it started out at 15 million and it took 48 million dollars to complete it by the time it finally got through all the approvals and funding lined up and actually got done it was a 48 million dollar project not a fifteen million dollar project ten or ten years to get it done yeah so my personal ask for the rest of the council is a staff to look at options to accelerate that and get those it's in her entrance it's done as quickly as possible I think the timing with everything else we got going on in the economic development is actually justifies it that's my perspective we'd have to add it into the budget I know I it's fun bounce is it it's already in the other - no I'm I'm suggesting we look at fun bounce going further that we've yeah that we've assembled through a lot of savings and see what can be afforded so through state through savings should we have it yeah that's one of the levy increased just fun balancing it might be just maybe it's two years that our one here or something like that but something faster than one a year we couldn't get the one on 35w cellphone no matter how hard we tried I don't think the way to 35 to 35 and then go to County in 40 do we have to scale it Kelly I'm answering your question we could we could we can certainly work through an option with fund balance your other option would also be use of EDA fund balance so there's some fun bouncer that's your choice then you know then it's not available for other things but that would be another option I don't know how the rest of the council looks at those monument signs but I think they have a big impact on the perception of our city looks I think it's a big pride point for people who live here and because we're doing all this building that's what's really fueling my push to do this is we have all these cranes in the air and all this new building going on and tons of new residents that are gonna move it in I think I would just like to see these done sooner than later I think it goes with the overall branding of the city dan it's a with all we're doing the water tower and everything else that we're to enhance the image of the city other people come and visit does that mean we need to put the you belong here underneath the Burnsville no I don't think we need to know I think we would stick with this but right on the highway honest raping you and your friends take care of that well just to close out that discussion what what do you I guess what do you want to hear city manager leave from the council on that as a formal direction well acting mayor Gustafson and consulate I think we'd appreciate some direction we I think Jiraiya's point the 35s are easy the two 35s are easier with minutes change in process and and permissions 35w is gonna be a challenge so we'll need to have some time for that and 42 we'd have to work through that so I I don't want to commit for Ryan you'll have to correct me if I'm going astray but I think we could begin working on and I think we've already talked about a staff level to do that our logical plan would be the 235 and one year the 242 is the following year then see what we can get done 35w it's funny we were talking about this cuz I was just on 35e coming in to burns all the other day and I saw that sign and I thought that might be a good spot for our green stub sign that's still in the utility closet but I had thought about that and here we are talking about it and less than three or four days ago so I think the 35 ones are more of a priority than the 42 I think that schedule you're on right now it probably makes more sense agreement here everyone yeah 235 it's the 235 ease right you got the warmest one yeah 42 42 so that is it are we talking this year or in 2020 did we do one in 28 no no this was this was a skip year so this is 2020 so we would just go to - next year - and 2021 and then hopefully 35w would be ready in the third year and if there's a location there has to be a certain distance from other signs they put on if so if there's a location we'd be able to know by them but I've received confirmation the other two they would have a reasonably decent spot forum cool I'd be great I think something you should do both good ideas down once in a great while well once a year Kelly we can continue so this pie chart just demonstrates for you how the general fund is funded and as you can see it's seven almost seventy percent sixty nine percent funded through property taxes and charges for services being the next largest at fifteen percent so this shirt demonstrates what we were just talking about with permits and licenses and how much has been generated like I said we we don't want to be overly optimistic when we estimate permit revenue coming in because of the fluctuations and if we if we do estimate them high and then it goes the other direction that means cuts and and and in a problem for the following year so we would rather look at how are we going to spend it after it comes in versus spending it before we we have it and as we are looking at the future years we have them very flat in those projections so and we'll continue each year we update will continue to update EMS revenues are a little different there have consistently their their increase their runs are increasing every year so those revenues we have built in a small increase but we again are conservative so the blue bean budget and the green being how the actuals have come in we're we budget for an increase but we are a little below actuals every year there's a lot of there's there's a flexible fluctuation in this to with health care laws and regulations and how much medicare and medicaid pays and all of those things that we don't have a lot of control over that could change so that's where we keep that conservative estimate it just backing up there to that there are service implicit implications service delivery implications that go along with the number of runs increasing as well but these revenues generate fees and charges you have a whole section in your book dedicated to fees and charges that include all of the various fees and it shows you what the fee was for 2019 and what the proposed fee is for 2020 the liquor license is proposed to increase I point that one out only because it requires a public hearing so as part of your budget adoption there will be a public hearing associated with that one particular increase as we look at the expenditure side for the general fund we're a service organization and so as you look at that that big piece of the pie is people I apologize those funds are very small there but people is the big blue section of that chart and so all of the things associated with with staffing which includes cost-of-living adjustments and you had your compensation study implementation that are implementing step increases over the next few years to catch people up to the market - and to your pay philosophy which is to pay in the middle of the market competitive leave that is going to really help also with retention of employees and and being able to hire good and great employees so the currently we have 283 FTEs those are full-time equivalents that is those are your full-time staff not we don't calculate an FTE for seasonal staffing and this is the budget includes a year two of the phase compensation study we have higher than usual health insurance increase funded in this year as well as we had a challenge with health insurance and it's year two of Public Safety pension increases our workers comp rates are increasing and that is consistent with other cities - workers comp rates are just increasing it's experience that's our claims experience and claims experience across cities mr. chair mr. Dean Mary is that are we in a statewide pool or sit areas are we looked at just as a city behind the state unemployment pool so we are covered under League of Minnesota cities insurance trust and I think all but maybe it's a bigger two cities included in them I think I mean it's virtually everybody so our experience could be exceptionally good but we're part of a pool that if the pool has a lot of heavy claims we're gonna be impacted by the premium and and we've had some experience we had a lot of good years and and we've had some experience issues as well so experience does weigh in to our rates we get the benefit of the pooled rate but if we have the significant spike in claims our premium is going to reflect that so our cities under it and individual even on that policies I can't give you the insurance guy insurance information can I so we're part of an overall pool Kelly chime in if I go straight here but they look at our experience and then we get our rating based on that so if we have some catastrophic claims that will reflect negatively but it's moderated by our participation in the pool and we do have some stop loss kinds of parts to that and we have deductibles associated with that so it's not a huge increase I so I don't I don't mean it to call it out that we have this giant increase but it is a trend upward and it is one of those things that's taking a bite out of of things are there like risk prevention things we can do to mitigate some of that loss or are we all ready we are all ready we've had a Safety Committee for quite a number of years that's represented by all departments on that Safety Committee we get suggestions from the league and you know what areas to address they help us with that it's so we are doing and have been for quite a number of years and I guess the more I think and I'm sorry for speaking out of turn the more I think about it I mean our police are part of that pool as well correct I mean and so there's only so much risk assessment you can do in law enforcement or as a post to say forestry which would be a more controlled environment typically what you want to do is you you have a sense you get reports based on what kind of injuries you're seeing throughout the organization they're not attributed to individuals but then you as the employer you take steps to put in programs in place to help address those issues that you're seeing and some of them are just inherent to the job Public Safety is one of those areas that are inherently risky Public Works is as well you often see claims in public works so but we are doing some department specific and looking to do some organization specific development on those areas as well so building on what we have right now I'd be interesting to hear more about that as that produces itself is that becomes more tangible thank you and then we are also investing in organizational employee development in this budget as well so increased revenues and service pressures some of those same revenues that we were just talking about the EMS services and the permits and licensing services means that there's a lot more to do well those revenues are up because there's a lot more services that are are being needed in those areas so we are addressing those with these FTEs proposed so in fire a fire inspector to begin to address work load volumes that also does free up some of the things done by the current administrative staff so it's helping in that area and that would be funded with the additional fire department revenue which is basically EMS fees generated and then in Community Development a building inspector and inspections assistant so it's two FTEs to address the permit activity in the backlog and funded by permit revenues that have already been collected and are anticipated and in Public Works they are proposing three FTEs for public works maintenance trainee positions so these are positions that would be replacing seasonal staff and maybe Ryan and Jeff do you want to speak to to the efficiencies and thoughts that you have on that well the whole industry Poe Burke's industry crosses over with construction and as construction booms hiring qualified maintenance workers is a very difficult challenge and we also have challenges finding seasonal workers on this on the same thing and the thought is if we can open up to full-time positions you don't kind of train our own maintenance workers for the future opportunities for within burn zone and other places as well gonna be modeled off the Ostia sole program here with the police that works really well for them they you get like an extended trial with this employee and see if you like them before you before you move on as opposed to a one interview for an hour and I'm hoping you got the best here we should be able to really have a build some bench strength for ourselves and we're replacing more than one group seasonal employee this is I was at almost six or seven reproduction and seasonals in order to defer to fund this out so but we think someone who's wanted to get an industry is probably worth the equivalent of two seasonals any situation so it's balanced or sorry its budget neutral but you're just shifting into not quite there is some investment but definitely and these are the three seasonals who were last year winter that we had to hire for them in the snow plow so these the ones you've already hired then also last year we had to you know those were six months so those folks are gone okay and then we are in the proper I mean we're in the process of attempting to hire these now by the way I think the right I think that very I really like that concept and I'm happy that that materialized cuz I think that's a smart way to handle that on the community development side with the two FTEs at some point I thought there was some discussion about cross-training internally is that part of this process or work where does that fit into this green box extramarital Gustavsson in council I'm at this point there's been no council direction to change how we do our code enforcement so we have while we have pulled of some of our proposed enforcement staff as a kind of stopgap it's a temporary measure should there be any further changes to our code enforcement philosophy we would have the ability to do more of that well is this an opportunity to do that yeah you see manager Lee could you give the council some because I know we've talked about a few times but I know this is one of those things that I was wondering okay when are we gonna have the come-to-jesus discussion on it and make that then make to change it if we were going to make a change do we have that on a future meeting schedule or something that is already booked or do we need to put that councilmember Cillian in the council I believe it I'm going after memory after lookup is it perhaps on the all-day work session I believe that was referred to the all-day work session because there are two components when you think about cold enforcement's and what are you going to enforce and then how are you going to enforce it so those are those are two opponents that I do understand the consul's talked about I understand there's some other you know thoughts behind how to do that but at this point I don't recall any specific council action in changing that direction I'm gonna look around the table and see if perhaps they misunderstood I I feel that council keeps expressing a direction and expressing impatience in that direction and so I'm just gonna note that at this point I'm very impatient and I don't know how many more times Council needs to talk about this and express a desire for this to move forward so my patience has gone on this particular topic so if it if it isn't already on the all-day work session let's make sure that it is but let's let's get this moving forward because each time this comes up we feel like okay we were asking to move in this direction and we we understand that you have to wait for us to take a formal voter or that kind of thing but dang I think we've been ready for a while so I don't know how else to put that more bluntly and I would ask my other city councillors are you there yet based on prior conversations aye aye and I wish I had all of those memorized that maybe we weren't clear on our direction with a firm recommendation but that this was something that we wanted to discuss and revisit and kind of redefine our philosophy on code enforcement but now that I'm seeing too FTEs as part of the budget process are we putting the cart before the horse before we get to that conversation because if we proceeded that way are we gonna have I asked to walk back to new employees acting mayor while I would suggest that we have the discussion I would rather not wait till the all-day work session if this could be done in December but I think we've already hashed it out I'd like to move forward with a decision and I think all we need is an opportunity at a work session if we can put it on December's and and have the discussion we need obviously some information from staff on who and what they do and that but they've I think we've already actually migrated in this direction in a temporary sense let's just codify it in a permanent sense this is what we want those folks to do period going forward before we hire on any more additional staff in that department understanding there's a need there I only haven't enough information to tell me that the need is temporarily addressed by these retrained and refocused enforcement folks we need some maybe some further facts from the city manager city staff on exactly what that is is it a hundred percent gap filled and if those people that have been repurposed in that area are they good candidates to be permanently repurposed there or are they gonna come back and we're gonna do some other shifts but ultimately I think it's time to make the final decision we have a placeholder for an additional budget discussion should it be needed and maybe that might be an opportunity for this just yeah we had that placeholder for November 26 depending on what how today's tonight's meeting went occurred and what other questions you might have I will note that when with the the stopgap that we're doing right now with our code enforcement staff that it does we're paying overtime there too so it's not exclusively moving there from enforcement over to building inspection it's it's additional hours that we're having them work to try to reduce that stopgap 1,500 roofing permits and you know all the development that we're seeing in town that's that's what we're trying to tamp down a little their address I should say enough correct me if I'm wrong our building inspectors have to be specially trained to be building inspectors they have to go through the classes and we have two inspections that are so trained now or but are they up to date with their licensing you know hours and all that you know I'm acting near Gustafson I have to verify with Jenny but yeah they are able to pick up on some of the inspections that we need we don't I do not know because right now we know that our homeowners which we've gotten emails from and our developers are behind because while we were doing great things to promote all the building in the city we didn't do great things to back up that the building that came at us and a lot of it came out as fast and we are we are playing catch-up and and this is this is gonna be going on a long time so I understand the need to look at crossover but we may we need to take a look at what do we really need with what it's gonna look like and and how many inspectors do we really need out there to keep up with all that's going on I mean this this multi-housing thing this is not you just stop in once in a while and see what's going that's there's a lot of apartments being built out here and takes a lot of time we have we have one plumbing inspector we have one electrical inspector in this town that's not very good so anyways so but I agree with you that we've all agreed that we need to look at how we're doing enforcement and how many people would need for enforcement and can we move people over to the inspections area and start working more on the growth of the city and how do we make that happen I also remember work on there to answer your question I think the number is two right now because that's what's the ask is is two full-time employees that might change next year senator village picks up probably gonna need more than two but then I think we need to clearly define what our expectations are for code enforcement and then justify that what the how the why so if it's feasible to move to from here to here without hiring two FTEs you know I'd like to do that well I think we should let step it's the next video tell us how they can do that it might follow up question to say managers is that enough time to do that well you know um yeah I think I think I can work with Jenny to to get some information back to the council yes so we're gonna come back on the 26th at 4:00 this faster than I thought you could so great I was shooting for mid-december give myself a little bit of wiggle room if I talk to Jenny in the morning and she's you know more information comes forward you know it might end up being a December but I know I understand that this is a priority I think we had had this for the followed a work session but we certainly can bring it forward yet this fall for the sake of our budget discussion it seems to make sense to discuss that now even though it's funded by permit fees collected and anticipated fun yes fifties we could capture that revenue and use the existing staff or some combination of that I just don't want to put our inspections in jeopardy and keep causing our residents and our businesses to spend thousands and thousands of dollars because we can't get our job to agreed I'm 100% with you I you know we have a bandaid on it right now indeed might not even be big enough to be actually doing the job that it needs to do that's why I kind of think this still has a lot of urgency and you want to make sure we don't select and then the question is what what is what are those overtime employees doing in code enforcement that they maybe potentially wouldn't need to do where they could commit their nine-to-five to exactly this and I think that's what we need to export yeah acting mayor Gustafson and council I think that's that's the kind of the crux of the question right the council's priorities thus far has been defining how and what should be enforced and we can change and to redefine what is enforced we can change in defined how we read how we enforce it so it's a process and it's a and it's a action at this point there has been no you there's been modifications of our code but there hasn't been a direction or a thorough conversation from my perspective saying we will no longer enforce X Y or Z so stop enforcing that and thus there's a impact on staff staff time right so there's two questions for the council to two way through to talk through and what their preference is fortunately we won't have as much garbage screening code enforcement which was evidently the the number one complaint city complaint so that should hopefully help their department not have to know that so no but what we're talking about is if we have two two of our code enforcement who could then move into inspection instrument and then they no longer have to do code enforcement because we've lessened that amount that may be something that helps so we are that would help we don't know how much though would be helpful to hear Jenni's plan if she plans on keeping them doing that plus the other if that she feels she needs four of them I don't know acting mayor Gustafson and council I mean the plan is for the additional staff to help relieve the logjam we have and understanding that the the building and the construction that we're seeing today there are tales with all of that yeah and building inspectors talents skills and expertise will offset that so the skill set that a code enforcement officer brings is different than a building inspectors Ursula training it's different background so again I'll let Jenny help me with speak to the talents and the expertise needed but there certainly would be Oh a transition period where we to have any of our code enforcement staff be then asked to do building inspections because those do require different levels of expertise all right we'll talk about this in a couple of weeks the remaining expenses in the general fund are things like the Dakota Communication Center which our dispatch the insurance legal and audit professional services utilities feel major I I can't read them you can read them to my my point in here is that there's not a lot of room for changes in these areas because there's a lot of big expenses that there's not there's not a lot of area i guess 'sir moving on to the special revenue funds so in the that type of fund this there's about 2.8 million dollars of expenses and we're talking the big ones would be the cable and the EDA and then we also have forestry and sustainability so just talking about the EDA fund and I've already hit on a that a little bit we move the staffing to the general fund eliminated the transfer to the Ames center and increase the debt service levy in the general fund as a comparison I the year 2019 budget includes the elf grant revenues and expenditures and the equal amount I excluded that from this chart so that it didn't distort that comparison but you can see 2019 has more revenues and more expenses and we've dropped down the revenues and the expenses going forward 2020 has some one-time expenses related to retail analytics to the there's some professional services related to the landfill agreements that are in in process and then also a placeholder for some activity in center village so those are more of a one-time as you see the 2020 not going forward and those are actually the things I was just talking about so I can skip over that one the other big fund special revenue funds of the cable franchise fees and this one's kind of in a transition period of time cable franchise fees are very flat or proud or are probably declining which we don't know if we but we've projected them flat in this case and this would indicate that we are spending down fund balance in this area this fund does contribute a hundred and eighty five thousand dollars to the general fund every year from the franchise fees that are collected so likely we will need to as we we develop the next year's budget for this we'll probably be looking at declining that which would leave a spot in the general fund we are looking at a communications plan in 2020 so looking at what is the what what should the communications department be doing and so this fund really pointing out here yes we know the trajectory that it's on and it will be something that will be more to come in the next few years as we look at that and refine this further oops two at a time they're so included in the budget document is the capital improvements plan there are some big things highlighted here and what's coming up Heather Hills water tower rehab this in the stormwater fund the sustainability guide plan is being updated Lake Marion regional trail is a big thing in the parks capital fund we got Nicollet Commons water feature in the vehicle replacements we have a fire truck in the next year those are always big when we have to replace those and then of course in facilities fire station one replacement is starting land was just approved to be purchased in 2019 and the construction plans would begin in 2020 and we have our normal Street reconstruction and technology capital so I'm gonna turn it that big spike in the middle I just have a quick question Kelly on just for my own knowledge and maybe people watching I'm that what's the Nicollet commons water feature well the nickel Commons water feature has been leaking water for a significant amount of time I think we it's been run up to Council probably at least two years ago and I think as you look at it it was designed for you know occasional a parent to have a kid walk through it or something like that we never anticipated they were gonna be daycares dropping buses of kids off or the water features so it's a it's heavily loved how about that and in need of some investment okay to keep it to keep it sustainable and the way it's currently used I remember in that first open and they had the limestone rock on the bottom of that good river and it was clogging all the filters and that got pulled and I agree I'm I don't know anybody anticipated this becoming you know a modified water park mmm-hmm so it makes sense that it's probably getting beat up more than plan biggest situation is water loss it's weird it was almost picture percent of water as opposed to being recycled it's like I don't know the exact number but it's losing a lot splashing it Alton oh it's it's not fully known yeah but we're gonna have to replace a lot of the componentry to get to the bottom of that very good thank you Oh councilmember thank you acting mayor some years ago we put an investment in I believe it was water purification chlorination because it was being used as a public wading pool instead of just a water feature to occasionally sprinkle your feet in at that time was there any underground work being done to put that in or was that all in the pump house building type of thing most of it was in the pump house okay we feel the majority loss is probably in the underground piping is where we need to pull with this like project Ruiz the cracking possibly or whatever so it's like a sprinkler system that's got a leak and it's feeding your lawn deep down under big so unfortunately it's beating the concrete the aquifer No so Ryan and I are tag teaming a little bit here but so this is just gives you a visual of order of magnitude and the different funds that we have aware capital projects are for 2020 so IT capitalists and their equipment equipment and vehicle funds those are just dealing with replacement needs in those funds and I broke out facilities into two portions the facilities fund where we're just maintaining and replacing everyday kinds of capital needs and lots of facilities that is the first column and the second column is the actual construction of fire station one and of course that number on fire station one is to be determined we're really at the very beginning process of designing the building and figuring out exactly what that number will be and you'll have lots of input on that as it comes back to you in in that process the normal process of of the project parks capital is and we've kind of discussed some of these other things as as we've gone to so parks capital that's our park improvements and replacements and then Street maintenance those are sort of those extra things around the around on Street maintenance would be guard rails and crack sealing is that where bike paths are coming on as well those would be more in the parts capital side of things okay and then improvement construction fund those are your and the ITF fund those are your road and Street projects go through there the ITF are the things that are funded with the ITF Levy and MSA Street aid from the state and then the improvement construction tend to be those things that we share with Dakota County and other agencies so equipment and vehicle fund this this fund is challenged there's increasing costs of vehicle replacements new technologies and requirements and past assumptions are changing on the use of vehicles we are proposing that in 2021 there will be a fleet study and we will be doing some research in 20 and 20 2020 and 2021 just to make sure that fleet is right-sized are we taking advantage of other options and and looking at you know what we should do with those vehicles and then the new vehicles as I mentioned earlier would be funded from a fund balance transfer from the general fund you can see the green line is our fund balance and that dips down there is the purpose of a capital project fun is that it's you can't keep those kinds of expenditures completely even year after year there's some big needs spikes and needs we you can see on the blue lines those are our revenue sources those are pretty even but we manage the the ups and downs within the fund with fund balance so the red red lines peak because you have large vehicles like this year we in 2020 we have a fire truck we have some ambulances that are in there and some large street one so there's just some needs where some years are higher than others and the fleet department has a whole schedule of all the vehicles and we try to manage that as best we can similar to how we will hopefully be quickly resolving inspections and code enforcement the new vehicles for the inspector positions will also need to add that on to that discussion so that we can have that wrapped up in there as well no Ryan do you want to hit on that I cannot guarantee those for us exactly an or thirty two thousand five or thirty eight but yeah but it's that is a very expensive vehicle and when we talked about assumptions changing so if we were looking at the the fleet replacement policy and one of the big situations is is the old that calls for replacement every eighteen to twenty five years and they are worn out after twelve and when you replace a fire truck you you've got almost zero and residual value that it's it's almost hard to give them away so these things really hog depreciate extremely quickly and you can see the cost and that's one of the big reasons why the fund does have some of those challenges streets is one of the big dual axle trucks and a front-end loader that's necessary and the police that's a pretty much an annual situation there we replace six five spot five squats each year that's how fast they go through I'm the fire truck and the ambulances also very much driven by the increasing number of runs so we're putting a lot of miles on those a lot faster than we had in the past particularly the ambulances they are picking somebody up with in Burnsville but they're typically delivering them to a hospital outside of Burnsville they you know they may be driving Hennepin County all kinds of hospitals throughout the metro area it's a lot of miles on thank you acting mayor justice and a question on the fire truck it struck me odd over the years I've heard Craig and Heather and just we haven't had this discussion you know talking about when these big assets reached their end of life for us right is this the size of city we are I look at you know fire trucks like the one that we are apparently going to retire and think of what is the small community who needs a fire truck but can't afford their 833 thousand but would love one for two hundred thousand used or 150 or a hundred thousand users right that don't they do they go out buy brand new trucks or where do they get their equipment from if it's not a hand-me-down at a discounted price yes it happens that way I've heard several times that our usage of vehicles actually is up there with the Chicago's the Detroit's and that type of thing so our used market is very minimal to known those cities are buying new trucks they're also getting used trucks but probably not a used truck from a full time fire department that has our hive usage I will literally tell you if we get 20 grand out of a fire truck after it is wow 12 years here we are lucky so it takes such great care of them I just can't believe that you know when we look at the condition and I a mechanically right drivetrain axles trans you know transmission those could be factors that might be needing of you know a twenty thousand dollar overhaul or a fifty thousand overall but the rest of the vehicle we take such great care of them it blows me away that they have no residual value other than to say twenty thousand three I think we know what it takes to keep it on the road past twelve years and I think they know that we know what it takes to keep on the road the past twelve years so they can afford to buy it at twenty grand the only way they can afford to buy it at twenty grand it's because they know there's gonna be 50 to 80 grand a year to keep it going just because there's it's that that life sorry I cut you off councilman working my father wants on the Rural Fire Board in Minnesota and they do get grants and they work together so they might have one truck for four townships in one city and they do work together it's probably offset some of those extreme costs you know I want to buy one of these trucks one day they're only 20 grand I just want to be a fire truck owner for twenty thousand bucks is I thought they were whole more expensive that unless you know the collectors that we deal with the fire master you know that some of those are very old so I can understand those are not that expensive unless it's some sort of collector value but these things look like they're at least a hundred thousand on the back side I just can't believe that what we'll Walzer give us for it they buy used cars they advertise carve off the top and make a little living space inside the big water tank what Preppers live in the tank so this is the facilities fund in looking at and we talked a lot about this already as well 2020 is the fire station construction a just purchased the land in 2019 and then 2024 is the year that phase three which is its fire station two and City Hall from the original facilities plan that was the year that that hit so as you can see on the Green Line there with this planned franchise fee of increasing the franchise fee you're seeing your fund balance go up through the year 2023 and then a sharp decline and that's because we would be using cash available from that collection to fund part of the improvements in 2024 so this does this the timing of 2024 is from the original plan that was done quite a while ago this provides you some flexibility and splitting those projects up into City Hall and Fire Station two those two do not need to be tied together as far as bidding goes or those the projects would be maybe they would maybe they wouldn't but they are not as related as you know doing fire station one and councilmember workman Kelly does this consider a potential sale of the land that the fire station sits on now as part of it is not in this facility's plan because we don't know the timing or the amount of that or the future uses of it but if it if it went if and when it is sold it would go back to this fund and stager those thank you yep I think we've already talked about this particular slide so the franchise fee proposed we very tacked a lot about this as well so the residential is one going to for the commercial has three tiered structure so it's small medium large these are flat fees and they would be proposed to increase proportionately with the residential increase so and I believe in your background we did show what those rates would be really um this is again for clarity and anybody that might be tuning into this when we talk about residential does that include dense medium and high density residential or is that in a separate category I believe so it it has to do with how they are billed through the utility company but yes so if they have separate meters they would be at their residential rate okay if there is a facility that has one meter and they they are responsible for spreading the cost of utilities out to whomever is within their building then it would be at the commercial rate and then there's three commercial rates small medium and large is that based on square footage it's based on the utility company's definition of what those are so it's usage usage rates so it's not so they will fall into a category of small medium large based on their that's that's how they define how the utility companies define it so it it's a very kind of getting back to our earlier discussion it's a very simplistic rate structure as opposed to the property tax which is valuation based and everybody is very specific on what the side the value you will have properties of many values are lumped into the same category the reason I asked the question is because if let's say one of you know the new apartment buildings you know each unit has their own meter that's $4 per meter or you know it's an $8 franchise fee that's gonna yield a higher amount than a large commercial building with one meter if an if it's based on usage I would think that a large apartment building would have a higher use because of the residents as opposed to say a storage facility that's just got the lights on and you know maintaining 65 degrees and so that's you know I guess that's gonna impact residents differently depending on how they're defined and it would be helpful to know that you know for either our lower-income high-density housing units or inversely the other ones just to get some clarification on that should we be asked about that in the future I believe they're typically from what what they told us when we first implemented this the utility companies they're typically separately metered and then the thing we don't know about commercial properties is that commercial properties can have more than one meter as well so but there's that that's something that we don't know or and can't control but so it is a per meter charge so if commercial property might have multiple gas meters and one electric meter but they might have vice-versa or they might have multiple we don't know that and the utility companies are they were very strong about wanting a flat fee that is that's the typical franchise fee as opposed to based on usage that's difficult for them to implement and it's not consistent with what other cities do so so we think that as far as residential goes those are generally individually metered units and then everything else is gonna fall into one of those other three commercial categories okay and as it was described to me at during the last process these small ones are typically more of a small can be more compared to a residential unit on the size-wise for a commercial they're they're kind of a comparable before you get up to the medium size on them the large view more of an industrial the big giant boxes that say okay thank you got some of your shots and could we get what those commercial rates are there in your background we call those out please in the presentation yes okay next oh yes yes yes yes because I mean we're rolling out exactly what the residential is so if we could do that for the commercial as well that would be I think helpful so for commercial small is $12 the commercial medium is $40 and the commercial large is a hundred and eighty dollars so that's per month per meter so they are so with the residential going from one to four the these were increases the same percentages okay so for example the small changes from X to X it changes from three to twelve and from on the medium it went from ten to forty and on the 180 it went 45215 yeah oh yeah forty five yes see that is it thank you really appreciate that then ours our businesses can kind of hear yes where that's going to thank you and then as far as implementation goes and once you make the decision it takes a bit to there's some notification processes there's some notification of Public Utilities Commission and then they have to hit a billing period so parks capital fund we've you know we've talked about this as well so we have in 2019 some the the big number is really the Lake Marion regional trail in there that was budgeted revenues and expenditures that will you'll see that in a carry forward that will not get done by the end of the year but we just show it there as in and out so the revenues will come along with with it there's very a small portion of that project that is funded from the city there is a gap in that project that when it comes when when the final funding happens I think at this point in time we're thinking it still needs some funding is that correct Ram that's the likely scenario what people know once we get busy but we'll be working on joint powers agreement with Dakota County DA they know where were cash-strapped on trying to fund too much more of the trail and development fees are limited to improvements park improvements and so we keep track of that in this particular fund so there are the as you can see that green line is pretty high in the fund right now and that is because we have some we've we've been fortunate to have some park development fees coming in we don't have projects for them yet so they're set aside and and they will be identified we talked about Nicollet Commons already scope still developing nice picture trying to keep this moving if that's all right with with you and then like just what I was speaking to we have a whole slide on that the infrastructure trust fund the two sources in that fund are the MSA which is state aid and ITF levy and we did take out of the ITF levy the part that had been going to park so 10% was going to the parks capital fund and we move that directly to the parks capital so the that fund were basically trying to match what we put into the improvement construction every year with what's available and Ryan speak to the specifics in the highlights there's some more slides that maybe it'd just be best just to go to the next slide and so we have three contracts that are we proposed to go out one is in the central 13 area I don't think you probably don't want me to read off the streets at this point in time but there's there is no Street reconstruction this year which is the total curb total water main replacement it's all either reclamation or rehabilitation a lot of our funding for like water main replacement is going into the Heather Hills Tower so that's the concept behind that and we have plenty of streets that aren't very much in need that don't need to have water main and then Southwest Burnsville will be our first year of going through resurfacing out there remember the whole process we went through so we plan on getting some of those roads improved in 2020 this project is it's being developed now we had some really positive news once again with Dakota County with their new cash share policy ad the maximum percentage of the project that the city will have to pay is twenty five percent so that's gonna very much help we got two points explained our federal grant and then Dakota County will cap our share at twenty five percent of the costs and then we still are compiling exactly how that's going to be funded but we are pretty close at this point by the time this thing is all we want I'm very confident we can make it project oh yes and this one is on car 42 Dakota County is planning on studying all the way from Savage all the way to where it hooks into highway 55 going to tastings and a lot of exercising to be done on multimodal pedestrian biking that sort of thing helped how can we cross the road it's also just gonna kind of beyond us do we need six lanes where we don't need it they're gonna try to find some low-hanging fruit to do some improvements near-term but a lot of the results like they are gonna be you're gonna need some further study like Erika bill solve sorry 42 and cedar with this study they're gonna have a some significant extra that they'll have to really focus in but we are a funding partner and a project partner with this and they'll definitely be taking our traffic study that we're doing on senator village into account the project manager for this project is on our project management team so it won't be forgotten and then this just gives you some perspective on our enterprise funds the majority of our enterprise funds are the utility funds the water and sewer the stormwater fund which that so the concept of enterprise funds is that they are fee based they are user user fee based you're the people using water or the ones paying for the system and then same with our recreational facilities the AI Center golf course on the Ames Center in the water and sewer fund I've mentioned a number of times and our other presentations that we're going to be doing a utility rate study in 2020 we always do a utility rate study but this is a much more comprehensive long-term rate study as we look at the structure of our fixed and variable costs and as we're projecting out so just issued an RFP to have to have a consultant help us with that and then our big uses in the water fund is Heather Hills I think that's on the next Munson the utility rates say Heather Hills rehab that's full rehab above the exterior into Interior coatings it was done approximately 12 years ago I think somewhere along those lines Todd 15 years ago and now it needs to be totally redone ground water treatment plant repairs is actually a electrical repairs in the water trim plant that was part of the ground water treatment plant rehab project we do say the pour bids we got on that we decided to not do that as part of that project weary budgeted the money and going to be doing in 2020 and variable frequency drives are the drives that are on the electrical motors so electrical motors can fluctuate with water usage we have several large ones of those at the water treatment plant that's where the 350,000 is going also there just for clarification the 550 electrical that's original equipment from 1970 or so right yeah that's good replay so 55 yeah this is there's pretty big stuff so they don't have fuses but yeah and in the storm water fund we're including that in the utility rate study as well and we are using fun bounce and I think fun balance had been built up so it's not really as much of a concern that it's being used it's available for you so that is supplementing these at this point real quick we've been studying the entire city for determining what where our needs are in stormwater management if we spend our money here is it gonna prevent something major catastrophe from happening and if we let this go that can be okay so that's what our planning is on resiliency improvements checking out the model and figuring out where we can best spend our money to either improve a situation that's pending or prevent something from happening park ranger improvements that possible Park I believe that is having some challenges right now we always supplement the street improvements with drainage catch basins and those kinds of things and sustainability plan update that is underway at this point is just including the black tag Road area as far as water drainage or is that just one of those things where could you elaborate a little more well that road floods every years or any consideration into that area as part of this planner is that something just kind of an accepted norm in that area yeah we could not possibly control the fire of those yeah it's just difficult under and also we've turned our road over to Xcel Energy we really own up to the brand the very extreme east and west end of that now okay so we end up having to make repairs but there is no we would want to spend some money armoring the banks that there's no way we'll be able to flood proof the road okay thank you could we ask Xcel Energy to flood Bluth roads since they own it they sometimes that the flood proof the plant you should see it already has experience and extend it down that road tower they are so the Ice Center fund has been consistently meeting operating costs with operating revenues they fund most of their regular capital replacement through the ice center fund through the fees but there are some challenges here and with with renting ice time and competition among eye centers and availability of ice it's there's there's been there's been a decrease in number of people participating in those types of programs so it's one of the things we're watching and they we will adjust expenses with revenues as we go but I think this is one of those key places where the decision that you've made to include major capital funding in the facilities fund versus this fund help this fund not need general fund support so that would be the you know the other option on here is that if it if if it were funding all of those things you would need some tax levy support in this fund in the future possibly the Ames center fund has that the funny little line hanging off the bottom there and the negatives that's a that's what I was talking about in the pain back of the loan so it had owed money to the general fund and we're showing that is going to go to zero and their fund balance is able to maintain at a level where they can fund some of their capital or replacement needs to so they are so basically this fund has now become operations and capital funding it'll be much easier fund to be able to look at what are the needs of operating this particular fund without a lot of ins and outs that were in that particular fund and they will they're moving into a stage now where there are some replacement needs so they are it's ten years old and facilities start to need some things in there so and then as we look at the operating portion of this budget they are meeting their operations so meaning they're the actual things that are going on there are paying for themselves the costs of staffing and and maintenance and repairs and that sort of thing are being funded from the revenues one thing to note that the naming rights for the building are projected through 2023 so that original agreement goes through 2023 so that's that is the reason why you see a dip down and in the fund balance there the theater is still projected to go through 2028 and we are at the summary been a long presentation but this comes back to that one of the very first slides that I brought up we believe that we've addressed the goals that we set forth at the beginning was to keep us on using those sound financial policies building a foundation for sustainable future as we look out in the long term in making these decisions and it maintains the consistent level of service so we haven't made a lot of service changes in in doing this budget and high quality service and quality and efficiency oops and that slide that was the last site are there any questions I just wanted to clarify acting mayor Gustafson n' cones like i thought we had put it on the all-day work session the proactive versus complaint base and I just wanted to kind of verify my memory because sometimes it's faulty so it looks like at the August work session the council directed this to the 2020 all day work session to discuss complaint based method for code enforcement so that's why I kept thinking oh we were working on it but we weren't ready for it so just point of clarification if you still want information on the 26 I'll work with Jenny to bring that forward but that was a topic for the upcoming work session or all-day work session I just mentioned that I think prior to what we saw tonight I think that would have been sufficient but if we're budgeting money for something that might resolve itself potentially yeah I would ask that we move it up certainly and the other piece is we could certainly hold off on any personnel decisions until the council makes that policy decision on complaint based code enforcement so this certainly wouldn't proceed until we have that clarity maybe we'll get there on the 26th thank you for looking that up any other questions thank you very much for the presentation great job you guys do a lot of really good hard work on us and I know you start right after this budget start working on next year's budget school we really it is appreciated all right we're moving on to round table and on the round table we're gonna talk about citizens comments at council meetings and councilmember Keely has asked this to be put on the round table it feels like it's been so long ago we talked about it I know that we council agenda ten minutes set aside but I've never interpreted that as hard a ten minute hard rule in fact we've deviated from it so many times that's why I got the impression it wasn't a hard and fast rule and I don't want to see the council use it discretion their indiscretion Utley depending on the situation I think we are the people's house I think we are elected by the people to listen to the people who come before us and when I was acting mayor and we had a full house of people I let everybody speak and I didn't care if it was gonna take it you know the meeting three hours or if that whole public comment period was going to end up being 90 minutes I kind of feel like we as a council need to ensure that going forward our meetings are structured as such that if people want to speak they're allowed to speak and that we do not have a repeat of the situation where we invoke a ten minute rule when when and if we want to as opposed to letting people speak that come before us and so you know I witnessed he dined his meeting in there there citizen comment period when I was watching the replay and at no time did anyone even they just said all right now it's time for the public comment period they never said all right you only have 10 minutes so hurry up so I think we need to just set our policy to be the 10 minutes is nothing more than a guide and that's it just something to put on the agenda but maybe we need to augment that to say additional time will always be made for people who want to speak because ultimately that's what we do 9 times out of 10 I would agree with you Dan it's the years I've been on the council when we had crowds we let him speak and I mean you were around in the day so we're building the Performing Arts Center and everybody that sat in this room if they wanted to talk got a chance to get up and talk and we didn't shut them down so I do I do want to know for the council to talk about because I agree people should be able to him speak but do we want people to come in with full presentations and start taking up time we give us presentations on different subjects and that's worth it or just kind of give us their input on a certain thing I don't it's if they've put in the time and the effort to do something and that's their forum I mean unless it's like a land use application that would be appropriate to go through the channels that already exists one thing that we always said at Planning Commission and I think Elizabeth does a good job with us too is is if you're providing new information that we haven't heard yet that's stressed quite a bit which I think helps alleviate you know repetitive discussion of the same issue over and over but I think at the end of the day we have a pretty good sense of what isn't isn't appropriate for that slot right yep and and I'll Beco that I think it's okay to remind those that want to speak to something new and and it's not really necessarily productive to the end to just keep repeating the same thing over again I think it's fair to remind people that they might still repeat something that was said and that's okay but it does make them think about okay here's what I really want to add on to what was already said and that's just a constructive discussion and dialogue but it's still being allowed to move forward yeah yeah I agree with that night you know I think some you know just general guidance of how to have a productive conversation that's not a bad thing I do think that people they do get to come and they do get to speak you know learn all of these training things about how to be more welcoming and encouraged people to come in and speak to us and interact with us and be part of government so that would be a good thing and not not just the time but the the feeling that we're not supposed to respond or react to someone yeah I'm I'm not really down with that either I mean there are times when someone just wants to speak in front of you and it's okay you know thank you for that because there really isn't anything you can or what you know are going to act on at that moment but there are times where people have come in spoke in front of us and we do respond to them and we do start to take action or that kind of thing and so I think a restatement that yeah we we absolutely can respond back interact and if needed be take action or ask staff to look up something or you know whatever that the expectation is not that we sit there silently because I don't have that expectation for me so we made a policy decision on a public comment with our assessment policy yeah we did I mean she came up and recommended this change and we discussed it and ultimately made a decision during a public comment period and I thought that was awesome I thought that was a very productive use of the public forum yeah that was a good government yeah it was really a good example of good government responsible government and we don't we won't always do that but we need to at least acknowledge what they said maybe have some light discussion ask a few questions to say okay this is probably best that you know we have staff take it from here work with you and then you're welcome to come back again we're not gonna be able to answer this question tonight because it's too big it involves too many things but even then I mean if I was coming in front of council if I got my car drove to City Hall and came prepared to say something a bunch of stone faces and owned only one person saying thank you next I feel like I'm dismissed like okay well could you at least acknowledge what I just said right and maybe give me a little feedback I think that's what we should have a duty to do so and we've done it right in that situation so so how do we mold that then and create a policy on that we need to do we need to create a policy what mayor Gustafson to my knowledge the only place where there's a 10-minute limitation is in that little flyer that we have outside hey don't look to Mac I don't think there's any formal pop there's a formal policy no um city manager Lee is exactly right it's just a guideline that we try to limit the citizen comments to 10 minutes so that it doesn't take up the bulk of the meeting time and the only place that it's written is in the pamphlet for the people when they how meetings work that we leave outside by the agendas but the council is free to go as long as they want anytime they want there's no we could remove that from the pamphlet when we leave a setting I think there's a group here that says yeah do that and yeah acting mayor Gustafson it's probably time to refresh the path the pamphlet anyway yes I think that's a good idea thank you absolutely all right second on our agenda for the round table is the city response to the data requests councilmember Schultz okay so looking at how we respond to two data requests in what our present policy is for getting those out in a timely manner and I understand that sometimes this gets complicated because we're working with other agencies as well but I do think we need to take a look at how we respond to those data requests and if we need to have a default policy on this that is different from our current policy and one example of a default policy which I've seen in cities you know that have adopted it is if a data request comes in it is automatically given out by X date unless there is an articulated specific reason why it isn't and then there is a one-week review period every week until that data requests then is fulfilled there may be times when we can't give the data out immediately when it hits that point or we may have a prosecutor asking us to wait one more week because they have to interview another witness and I think that that's understandable but the default should be that we release the data not that we hold the data for a longer period of time I also think that there is a change in expectations that data is released sooner used to be acceptable and people understood if if it was months and months before data was release but now people are questioning why with the systems that we have it's not like we have to physically walk into buildings we have to have people travel we have you know those kinds of situations why decisions can't be made quicker so that is something that I would like us to take up and explore further on what is our current policy does it work does it need to change and can we make it more responsive to residents when they request I think that's it's a good subject to take up I'd like to also talk about our communications with those that do give us data request them to just make snow aware of what the process is what's going on and and if another agency does have a limb or the other agency but left but we do that and make sure that they're they know that we're paying attention to it all along so that we we care about what we're agreed so but I think you're you're asking to put on the all-day work session so I am Council that I'll put on the all day work session and we'll have a discussion about data requests our policy would be all right number three on our round table city's vision on tourism and that's councilmember workman so this came up a new of the presentation in her last meeting I think this statement was made that it's been 13 years that we've been utilizing the CBB I just I don't know the last it's working there's 14 well actually more than adds 40 years of Amy's been there okay so we've been with people that have been here longer than me might be able to speak to this I just don't know if this is something that's touched on or looked at often I just I want to discuss what is the council's desires what do we want to see out of the CBB other things that we're looking for what are our expectations of this organization I'm not saying this as a slight to the current system but is it worth examining what's been in place to see if maybe we have outcomes that were looking forward that maybe aren't being expected as part of this organization yeah yeah I think it's a great all day work session discussion and the dynamics within the CVB industry have changed the dynamics of the digital technologies that are available today to be used as marketing tools a lot has changed and the city is changing and we have you know different priorities and direction that we're going and I think there's a lot of good discussions points discussion points within the that umbrella that you just brought up about the CVB so I think that's an something we absolutely have to have on our all day all right melody please put it on our all day work sessions thank you we did we're done with everything on the roundtable so not reports on our advisory board Dan you want me to go first no caravan did I report last month the i-35 solutions the priority projects and go Thea's I for some reason I don't know how I did that if the meeting was on the 10th an arc oh yeah our meeting was on the 15th I'm sorry I was reversing the calendar when I looked at it MBTA board no major updates we did ever met council regional our members actually present at our meeting which was nice they spoke a little bit our representative didn't have much really to throw away and it was really doing any questions and the senior member who I believe is the interim possibly do you know the name of the interim Met Council chair was every the stepping downs mr. Slovak yes I think she was there cuz their name ring a bell anyway our big issue at MBTA has been [Music] the Met Council is proposing a change in reason a regional solicitation and Ryan stepped out he can speak more detailed about it but it's been a subject matter it's been a sore spot the sta their suburban transit Association which is our lobbying group representing all the opt outs has been working on this but there's a pot of money that is available in the budget cycle from the state that MBTA and other opt outs submit projects that could be expansion testing lines additional operating etc service basically and what the met in short what the Met Council is proposing is giving certain arterial bus rapid transit routes a big chunk access to a big chunk of that money leaving a small part for everybody else to fight for they currently do get these arterial bus routes do get a decent amount of money but codifying it into the policy eliminates the chance of MBTA or other opt outs to ever get more than a slice of what's left or today depending on the strength of the project they might get a bigger piece and and the arterial routes wouldn't well they want to sort of make it a little bit of a hard line where all this money goes to these our trail routes and here's what's left for you to fight over for your expansions that's not friendly to opt outs and opt outs haven't taken it that way and so we're pushing back so that's one of the biggest political issues that we're dealing with with the Met Council as everybody knows the Met Council is our source of funding and it's also our source of competition and so it's a very unusual and highly irregular arrangement in the state of Minnesota and as an opt-out member of our or opt-out board it's not one that I would have ever supported and wished there was a way for us to change the business model of the Met Council and separate it from being our competition and our source of funding let's see i-35 we did the I just have a couple notes actually I have a shout out for our outgoing I guess in January skip Dean house attended the Burnsville chamber public policy meeting and he brought with him a sheet to talk about the proposed liquor ordinance changes that we are now embarking on which we're gonna obviously hold a period of time in our council meeting to allow the stakeholders to speak about these proposed changes it's a lot of really good moves and cleanup of our ordinance and it takes that model as everyone knows that we created in the principal retail center area and applies that to the whole city and removes a lot of barriers there's some impacts on our justy stakeholder so I think it's important for us to allow everybody to have their their time in front of us to talk about their concerns and/or support and he gave a great overview and brought this sheet with a lot of information on it and discussed it with the public policy committee so thank you very much skip that was a great presentation it was very helpful the public policy committees is talking about the city budget next steps the franchise fees next up I did make them aware that today we would be talking about all those things so I don't they must be watching from home the one beauty of having a publicized meeting right you can just sit at home and watch I think that's it thank you thank you Kara mine is actually meeting like Thursday so catch me next time catch you next time no Vince I'm light on things I don't have really anything to report on okay well CBB we had our budget discussions a few weeks ago which we all approved at our last meeting so we've gone through that Dakota broadband we have a contract to look at which we're getting I think no never November fourth meeting is a third fourth fourth meeting so we'll all see that and as care gonna be here from the DV be as well do you know um she is coming to a work session in January okay yes so we haven't invited her to the December meeting that week okay and then since tomorrow is my May meeting over to court broadband as well so there'll be lots more to come on this in the next two months and with that I have nothing anybody else have anything great desire to adjourn should i what we have a meeting we're jerk you