we've coming in with the comments proud there you are how are [Music] you right I will call the meeting to order at 6:33 let's stand for the Pledge of Allegiance ready G hands overedge Al the flag the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God with liy and jce for all call please council member Cole here council member schweer here council member Wong here council member nby here mayor M here get a motion to adopt the agenda please some moved some move council member Cole second second council member Norby all those in favor say I I I thank you presentations all right uh well thank you everyone for having me today I'm Henry Schneider of open window Productions and we had the very fine pleasure of producing a video for the city uh there's in fact two videos that we have to share with you guys today uh the first one uh is a full two and a half minute version well not quite two and a half minutes close to two and a half minutes that uh showcases all that the city has to offer um for businesses uh and for residents alike and then for the uh short version it uh promotes more in a generic sense the city as a whole so if you like I can begin with presenting the full version it is it going to go on the monitors if I share my should I share my screen is that what I have to do and hopefully there's not a m is okay sure [Music] audio unfortunately we don't have our normal system we're using this temporary still because of issues let me share one more time and check audio sharing settings this is our normal situation may not have had audio checks okay thriving business Paul is a place where history meets opportunity right in well that sounds like it might be the best that we're going to get sure for this right now that's fine thriving businesses are a Hallmark of society in the city of North St Paul is a place where history meets opportunity right in the heart of the Twin Cities metro here you'll find a supportive local government and a small town field with big city amenities North St Paul has an excellent infrastructure structure including easy access to major highways as well as a variety of commercial properties to suit businesses of all types and sizes from public transportation our own private utilities and outstanding Public Safety North St Paul is built for business the city has been fantastic at reaching out and the police force came in the fire department would come in after the inspections and just shop with their family and it just felt like we certainly belonged here and they gave a ton of support North St Paul is a city on the rise with a rich history and a promising future what I can tell you having been here for a year now and then the development process before that the city gets it in the town itself they are really excited to see the revitalization that's taking place and they're loyal they want to see local businesses succeed North St Paul is clearly open for business but it's not just about business it's about Community too North St Paul is known for its robust community and engagement in Lively events from the history Cruisers car shows and music in the park to the fall Roundup parade there's always something happening here I've been in North St Paul since 2007 they're doing a lot of stuff a lot of different things with uh Apartments they're building in Downtown they're fixing the streets so they're bringing in more people into town and they've got the car show in every Friday night throughout summer which is a phenomenal event for everybody to come down and see all the classic cars the whole street is you know it's got different people serving food foods and stuff so it's like a little great Fair every weekend it's time to bring your business to North St Paul and become part of our thriving business Community contact us today to learn more about the opportunities that await you here obvious a little audio delay there with the uh the playback but uh people who see it through social media through your email thumbnails through all the different places that you guys are going to be able to share it they'll get the full experience um if there's any questions I can answer those or I can move on to the uh short version of the video as well very good please continue you cut that ribbon very well mayor thank you all right so this is the short version uh 30 second version so a little bit more sharable when was the last time you came to North St Paul it's time to ReDiscover Minnesota's oldest bar ReDiscover the restaurants and the delicious food ReDiscover something sweet ReDiscover the parks lakes and trails ReDiscover the events and Community ReDiscover North St Paul that one obviously a little bit less focused specifically on business so it you Works more universally something that can go out uh really for any purpose and really just highlight all that the city has to offer whether you're trying to promote upcoming events um or do a generic promotion to call out the city uh that one should work really well uh particularly on digital platforms but really anywhere questions thoughts feedback thanks for letting me have my kids present oh glad to have them yeah no that's aome very good both of them thank you I like to right to the point it be good for social media catches your eye skateboarders all the different things we're doing now yep awesome my pleasure well thank you and you guys have all the files so you're able to utilize those and if there's any follow-up questions we're available to answer anything that you guys need help with all right thanks thanks guys tough act to follow just saying BR I know guitar my son one time for old project okay so I probably don't need to be sitting up here the whole time this is really um just a brief introduction on the next agenda item for uh staff from indot Consultants from indot to present to you kind of their interim progress so far on the trunk Highway 120 study which is generally they have more detail but from on the south end of the study is highway or interstate 94 on the North End of the study is uh Interstate 694 right so it's a a lot more than just North St Paul but they're going around to all of the cities and providing an update on where they are right now in the process and what's yet to come and I think there's been some public engagement already and certainly more to come as well too but they're going through the process of evaluating different Alternatives kind of you know you start with everything on the table and start narrowing it down so at this point I'll turn it over to um uh Travis and Ryan from I'll let them introduce themselves we also have Adam Josephson who's um from mot as well in the audience you guys ready is technology we're gonna see with us we gonna see just a quick note on our side we're still don't have our board for our soundboard so we're up here at the table it's just our media thing there so everybody can talk loud and we apologize because we're still waiting on parts great see if we can share right to the PowerPoint stick on all right well good evening everybody um I'm Ryan codington I'm a project manager at mot um with me tonight is is go ahead Travis uh Travis Weber um project manager for WSB and of course Adam Josephson is um the East area manager he's in the audience tonight um so thank you for the opportunity to present tonight like uh Morgan kind of stated it's kind of an interim update um so why don't we go to the next slide there Travis so just a little bit of background um like Morgan stated it goes from 94 on the south all the way up to 694 on the north um few years ago we scoped a project in mot to look at the pavement and the Aging infrastructure we quickly realized that there's a lot more to the story than just pavement and and signals that is needed out here um and so we started uh a comprehensive study of the area and we've been we've been working on that since 2020 and so um we're stepping through the process so kind of this is not news to anybody but this is kind of the existing conditions of 120 it's a two lane two-lane roadway with shoulders um residential and Commercial accesses there's lots of them um and with those businesses and uh commercial accesses there's both uh mail service and garbage service and other things that need to occur on that shoulder um for those those uh those residents um there's a railroad crossing in the middle um and there's a lot of signalized intersections lots of schools very constrained RightWay lots of utilities rural drainage and a real lack of bike comp estrian accommodations and that's kind of what led us to start the study so some of our stakeholder engagement that's happened to date and it will continue um so uh on there we we've talked to met Transit about the transit service that runs along 120 um we have a technical advisory committee meeting that meets once a month um Morgan tips on that for us um and so we uh we've been we've been meeting consistently for a while now um we also have a public officials meeting um that meets periodically and we'll have another one of those coming up and uh oh I missed one sorry we we did have a public openhouse kind of to kick off the second phase of the study um and we'll have more of those coming as well um we've also had a lot of Engagement with our our internal functional groups both the geometric office and Min uh the mind. bike and ped um the Ada office really trying to gather all that input to to further our alternative development but some of the key takeaways we've heard so far um and a lot of this probably isn't news um but uh we' heard a lot about safety for bikes and pedestrians people really want to be able to use the corridor from more than just um their cars uh there's a lack of sidewalk and Trail so people really don't feel safe as they're walking or navigating that roadway and then we heard a lot about congestion of the 120 and 36 interchange which a lot of people you're not in your head yes we we've heard that um and there's a real need for vehicle safety as well with those signalized intersections really um anticipating where people are coming from um and knowing knowing where to expect those cars to come out onto 120 pavement condition is nearing the end of its useful life um and that's what led us to start this endeavor um and accessible improvements are important uh storm water management is another big uh important consideration cost Effectiveness Implement I can't say that implementable um is another important consideration on this study really what's something that we can all shoot for that that's manageable that we can all hopefully deliver and uh make it a better Road for everybody and then the last one on here is something that uh the elective officials have brought to our attention is how do we future proof or how do we we look at the future of this roadway and as Vehicles become connected or automated is there infrastructure that might need to be implemented um to make a smart quarter kind of for that Future Vision so that led us really to um phase one of the study uh and that that was not Travis that was a different consultant and so that's this is kind of where we left off um so this was our our primary and secondary needs so really what we primary needs are things that we really should do uh or have to do on the next project and then secondary needs are more um would be nice to do or other considerations that kind of thing they kind of fall into um a secondary category so our primary needs are Vehicle Safety congestion at the Highway 120 and 36 interchange walking and bicycling accommodations pavement condition are our primary needs and then our secondary needs are congestion and access at other locations where traffic backs up with that I'll turn over to traffic sure so from there really you know we started to study at that point having the primary secondary needs and we wanted to look at the whole university of Alternatives anything that might be possible along this Corridor what might fit there were no bad ideas but it all gets filtered and screened through this lens of the primary and secondary needs if it doesn't address those we rule them out and that's really this first what I'll be talking about at the level one screening but even prior to that one of the things we looked at and talked about in those Tac meetings was the need potentially for a four or five Lane section we wanted to address that right away and whether or not it would be warranted if it'd be needed um and what we found through studies initially we studied the traffic the demand that's there today the demand we're expecting in the future for growth and whether or not we would we would have that traffic demand to need the capacity of the additional Lanes along this Corridor and one of the things we initially found through those traffic studies is that it's not warranted that we don't expect that traffic growth it should be very stagnant its relation to 694 the fact that this Corridor is largely built out not a lot of high demand growth that would be coming that might increase this traffic by you know 30 40% over the next even 30 years so we looked at it through that lens is there a need for it and then also looking at the rightaway impacts what would that mean right now we've got a very constrained RightWay as Ryan talked about in some of the constraints we have a five Lane section there with turn Lanes we're talking in pedestrian features you know it's a 100 foot footprint and you look at this entire Corridor map kind of stacked on there the red sections are areas that would have very significant RightWay impacts rows of homes that would need to be bought out relocated really not the appetite to go forward with something like that especially when the demand or need isn't there for something that robust so almost in a pre-screening phase we eliminated the four or five Lane section from further consideration in our level one screening for the rest of level one screening as I talked about kind of the rest of the univers of Alternatives so taking anything evaluating really the different Lane configurations that we could have and that might be kind of an existing two-lane section A three Lane section two lane divided signals are roundabouts um and you know through the lens again of safety and operations looking closely at the Highway 36 intersection from the operations there limitating the congestion and then bike and pet options as well again addressing those primary needs and that's really what it was and those were that's how they were screened and so we'll talk about these in a little bit more detail here um once we get kind of through high level results so we've we completed our level one screening results we looked at all these different options and there was a myriad of them and really what came out of that that met the the the primary and secondary needs were from a typical section or Lane configuration standpoint was a two-lane divided which would provide a raised medium in the middle and I'll I'll step through these and a three Lane section as well at the major intersections that currently have signals we evaluate if signals still operated effectively or roundabouts would operate and really those those were only evaluated again from a traffic and safety standpoint and what was determined is that both operate effectively and it's not looking at impacts we'll look at that further down the road in the Highway 36 intersection we looked at both grade separated and also at grade options so we wanted to make sure that there wasn't some new Innovative intersection design that would meet the safety and the traffic needs and what we found at looking at probably I think eight different atg grade options modifying reconfiguring how that would operate jts different configurations like that none of those at great options would either meet safety needs or the traffic congestion need so we're moving forward only with interchanges into the level two screening and then lastly the p and um bicycle options what we found is that well we don't expect traffic growth it's still a large volume of traffic that's out there like 10,000 vehicles per day that we currently see so it's not safe at that volume for bicycles to share the roadway in any configuration whether it's shared it's bike Lanes or even buffered bike Lanes it's best from a bike standpoint that they're off the road so moving forward looking at shar's path off street bike Lanes as well as sidewalks for p and bike options but not on street so that's how we went through and and really completed our level one screening of that so to take a little bit deeper dive into the Alternatives moving forward I'll start with that three lane option and in the upper right it it's probably a little bit tough to see but you can kind of see the typical section can configuration how this might look and so it's it's the three lanes one lane in each Direction north and south and then the center left turn lane and it also um includes shoulders on here Ryan talked about a lot of access points for residences for businesses so garbage Postal Services making sure that there's safe space for that to operate with we've got boulevards and then both pedestrian and bicycle facilities we show um a shared use path on one side or another it really doesn't matter the footprint would be the same can be configured a lot of different ways but um just for the sake of illustration we show it in in one way so this kind of promotes that full access to um still that three Lane section would not restrict side streets uh driveways to right and right out you'd be able to go left in and out as we kind of show and illustrate on the bottom left as as the layout would dictate when we look at the two-lane with raised median it's a little bit differently here we've got one lane in each Direction and again we've got the center median and that promotes a little bit more access control so we'd have right in right out at minor side streets at driveways and so what it makes up for in probably safety really there's some access inconvenience so someone trying to take a left turn out of a side street will'll have to go in this case South come around make a u-turn at an intersection around about our signal then to provide um to go north again but um this would also provide that same shouldering so that emergency vehicles would be able to pass stopped or stalled Vehicles as well as garbage and Postal Service as well kind of the compare and contrast with our two primary sections that we're showing mentioned along this Six Mile Corridor we have 14 signalized intersections right now that we're evaluating and that's what we did at least on a screening operational analysis just making sure with the traffic volumes we initially looked at what a roundabout operate and that's really all we looked at further considerations are a little bit more detailed traffic operation looking at turn lane considerations the RightWay constraints will these different intersections fit will they modify access how they operate with bus pedestrians all of those things will be considered as we dig into this further so on our options right now we show roundabouts are possible at every intersection but you know whether the r whether the rightaway impacts are going to be acceptable or not or some of the other operations that's what we need to dig in further as we move forward into the study at Highway 36 as I mentioned we're not going with that great anymore so just looking at the interchange options so much more in-depth traffic operations looking at property impacts this creates even in a tight tight area a pretty large footprint to put an interchange in so that's going to be a big consideration the connection to Margaret Street here that currently exists and looking at interchanges that can perpetuate that connection to Margaret Street we've heard that feedback the potential impacts in the continuity of the Gateway State trail there's a relatively new bridge it's only 10 years old so when this gets built can we preserve that how we can we continue that what would the interchange do to that and we got to evaluate whether 36 would go over or under uh 120 we've got a very high water table in this area and the feasibility and constructability of that is in consideration as well and then the Glenbrook small area plan that is being completed as well we haven't seen the results of that yet but if there's going to be pieces of that that we want to incorporate or Implement as part of the study as well and so with the interchanges um we're going to be looking right away at least initially at five different configurations the conventional Diamond you know diamonds with roundabouts potential for a single roundabout you know other considerations might be a single point Urban or diverging diamond but again access uh the size of these their operation certainly be considered and those are the things that we'll screen initially before we go into much detail detail designs again just kind of giving an overview of the different types of options that that might be considered so those were certainly the things that we're screening moving forward as we move forward in the study and so really next steps for this study you know we're having these series of meetings so we're going to meet North St Paul with Maplewood with Oakdale with Washington County with Ramsey County with landfall so we're going to meet with the cities and counties provide this kind of midpoint update and then come back to the elected officials Group which is I guess best described as the Coalition of the cities and counties um to help kind of propel and move this project forward um give them an update as well then we'll go back to the public with our level one results level one screening results and then more detail on the options going forward and then complete kind of our screening analysis we're going to document the impacts the issues the benefits of all those things hopefully with the outcome of narrowing this down even further to get something that we can fund that we can Implement to move forward in the next next phases of an environmental document something you can build a design project that we can move forward so those are the certainly the next steps that we'll be looking at probably over the next I'd say six to nine months you know as this moves forward I would say Ryan so that's that's kind of where we're at we wanted to provide an update answered questions today so that um concludes our presentation but um can certainly answer anything you might have thank you very much I know there wasn't anything on even on the horizon anything so the only thing new was it was uh it was submitted for quarters of Commerce um and it was evaluated um it wasn't selected but it did it did go through that process um that was pretty much the the newest um newest update anything else that I know of the state bonding tour probably know keep that I'm in that perspective can I make two points of clarification the council and public benefit you asked me to sit up here I did come on uh so the Glen Brook small area plan that you mentioned that is being conducted by the city of Oakdale corre correct y so that's an Oakdale effort that's ongoing and will help to inform your efforts from the corridor um and then I just wanted to point out you know so you are not at the the stage yet where you're really kind of determining pedestrian facilities uh what side of the road where exactly you've got kind of these Concepts but I just wanted to make mention for the council's benefit that um which has been discussed many many many times uh certainly in the past that Cil Silver Lake Trail connection along the 120 Corridor in some fashion you know that is encompassed with the corridor study now a lot of these Concepts I don't know you know we go through them pretty quickly even at the technical committee level um but they are showing a a an off-road Trail shared use Trail facility I mean right now I think it's on the opposite side of the road of of Silver Lake and maybe that's okay and best I think you know their efforts future efforts will help to determine that um and help inform you know that component of kind of the overall Vision multimodal vision for the corridor so I think it's just important for the council to know that um a lot of times city council and and City staff talk about the Silver Lake Trail as a standalone item there is some component for this study which does encompass that kind of uh non-motorized Transportation need in the area and so whether it's on one side or the other I think you know that it'll be good to again continue to hear public feedback continue to see how the menot study shakes out knowing that some version of that or a vision of that will be included um even though it may not be called The Silver Lake Trail but it is in in what they're looking at is that accurate representation okay absolutely it's been that road a little bit further to the east so we can have a regular path around the lake with with all these Alternatives as well what we're looking at they both those either the two-lane or the three lane almost by halfen stance right now they have the same footprint from the edge of the sheries path the edge of the sidewalk the same width that we're looking at and because in some areas we don't have that much right away we're going to look at centering the roadway and seeing how the impacts look on on equal on both sides we're going to evaluate shifting it to the West as well as shifting it to the East and then kind of in a matrix looking at what those impacts look like in some in some segments as we've broken this up it might be better and less impactful to shift it you know to the west to avoid full property bies that might happen on the east or vice versa so all of those things you know where it's going to fit best we're going to look at kind of on a segment by segment approach and we've broken that up you know through the six miles into 14 different segments essentially between the signalized intersections and Beyond as well so to really break it down on on where this best fits and a lot of that would get determined in further projects in final design and preliminary design that would happen you know long beyond the study even but we're going to at least take an initial glance at at what that is and and where it might just to help inform future in Environmental Studies and and projects going forward it was February we had it at the Oakdale Nature Center the one is there still the same Um passion for this project has it died down has it gotten more where are we at as far as the the where it's at I think there's there's passion I think it it's the study's taken a while right um you know it we kind of did it during coid for phase one and that was that was uh problematic um but uh you know we made it through that um and so I think it we've heard very strongly that there's a desire to do something um I think the the hard part we're going to run into is the funding aspect of it um and trying to find that Gap that's going to exist between the menot funding and and what what the study determines right and so trying to trying to gather though that momentum is going to be the challenge but the more the more we talk to people the more that we've had all these these engagement efforts it's really I really just want to be able to to walk I want to be able to bike I want to be able to use my street and I don't want to be scared to come out of my house and so we've heard that okay right you're with now were we on is this been on the radar or is this something that hasn't even have a date to even to look at as far as this project on your guys' side mentioned you know standpoint the things this stud is looking at are improvements for the cour Brian talkinging the system is this was this even on the radar for enhancement as far as minda was looking at it wasn't so it's not like we're getting moved up it's we're not even on the list yet to I'm justy what the right vision is from the commun realizing that to that a grou you guys aren't for against it it's just not on the radar yet is what you're saying okay we don't most of our program is some expansion projects that's good to know so it's not like you guys go out and have a vision of things it's more along the lines if somebody brings it up in the study and then you it moves forward it's not like it's it's you guys looking it over decide which one you're going to do major infrastructure redone to reduce on it we know we have to do projects out here we know that Vision that's what you do all the time it's not like we're asking for something weird um different cors you know like this one elev from okay a lot of a lot of qu say like 94 for thank you um for I happen to live on 120 and my neighbors talk to me can you um how come yeah um not gonna lie the biggest question I get is what sort of impact can they expect and where are the best places for them to have voices um so and how does that process work for those that have property that border 120 right so the best place that can have impact is at the public meeting when we're going to have that to kind of um really uh the whole point of the update was uh to really look at kind of what what alternatives we're looking at and see if there's something we didn't consider hey guys I I don't know if I really agree with what you just said okay then we can go back and reevaluate and really to to kind of bring them up to speed and then they can share their feedback we we go through after the meeting we summarize the feedback and we take it real seriously and look at it and see if how to incorporate that into the study um if the is it right away the RightWay changes how does that affect residents is that an imminent domain they have no choice is it um so all the time there' be a municipal consent um Pro process that that takes place um if there is property needs that are are needed there's a process for that um and so then you go through that process if you settle um ahead of time then there isn't um that taking if if you do have to go to condemnation then sometimes that what condemnation okay um basically that's part of what you were you were uh getting to there's a process for that and and the the property owners are compensated um by the law basically um but so yeah it's a it's a it's a very specific process that that we follow want to say thank you for putting the energy and time and studying this Corridor it's definitely and that intersection is has been really dangerous so it's been a big concern um for us for a while now yeah I think I go ahead I'm Sor part it is I think people think it's for Farther Along further along than we are because everybody's talking about like it's going to you know shovels will be next summer or spr yeah it's it's hard to get these things going and really um getting that common vision is really what we need and so when we when we all are talking with the same vision and the um elected officials are are going to that bonding session and they have that that shared Vision that they're they're talking about it it's really going to help hopefully drive that that conversation forward yeah no and I just want to thank all three of you um for coming tonight um it's always a topic that's that's that's on the mind of of all the Resident um you know going back to well beyond well before I was on Council um when 36 was originally dropped um the city lost a lot of access points so 120 and 36 is very valuable to to the access point for the city we lost three access points at mcnight we lost an access point at first um so we want to make sure that you know we've got a seat at the table when it comes time to to talking about what that intersection is going to look like um as it is a core a core concern for the city um you know so thank you for for keeping everything moving forward I think North St Paul hosted a meeting almost a year ago now um I think commissioner Kowski uh took took lead from from Washington County to to help facilitate so you know long you know will house you want to have meetings um bring the public we'd love to love to house perfect yeah and that that was the whole intent to that that marget street connection we've heard that that loud and clear um and so that was uh I know the Glen Brook area plan was with Oakdale but how does that relate to the the maret street access and how does those two line up and all those considerations moving forward are are very important um and definitely top of mind for us y thank you thank you thanks a lot appreciate it I think we're have to put a camera if they do that big huge one round roundabout oh I looked at that take a look and see how people are gonna handle that one I'm screwed that looks like it's gonna be quite thing maybe Gary Queen can be right in the middle of it there you go that way you can swing around get your order it's got to be quicker at the drive through make it a quick drivethru all right Robert welcome am here you are if I was summoned or invited my here I am either way you're you're more than welcome how of that great mayor council member thanks for having me Robert do of the Eda um before I get on myel um you know we talk a lot in in our annual reports in the last couple years and we keep an eye on the or the 12036 intersection because that's access to the city but um what just one note on that and I know we're not going to speed mot up but we call that area down there Commerce Park U the old BP station that was there city owns at now um of course there's the empty lot owned by Guy Nam Tom galani used to be United reyolds or the circus buildings I call them that are of the Burger King all of that stuff the remaining uh housing behind the senior facility there um none of that including the bank property um developers the general uh consensus out there with the development Community is nobody is going to touch that with a M that declares what's so from a eda's perspective um number one don't lose access miss the ball on that in Mar can't lose it there and number two to um we can do something with all that dirt a lot of it's right for some um again I I'm not entirely sure uh the topic to you know the intent of what I was supposed to cover tonight um we did have um I certainly W relish the opportunity to to address coun be a little bit with um some of what the Eda is doing uh also um you know we did recently have uh at our most recent Eda meeting we haveed up where people in the council for not doing something and um you know in hindsight or with the benefit of hindsight looking back and and what's unfolded um I'm not entirely sure that's that's accurate or correct um but but it was u a driver for me I think to come here here tonight and and talk a bit about um you know what the Eda is doing uh I will I will probably I I I'm going to talk a little bit about kind of what unfolded specific um uh with a property that we're trying to do and and kind of how the interchange between Eda and Council can be more effective you know so my My Hope Is that however I might come across the the intent is do we how do we get better at what what we do collectively within um and so um I I just saw this as a good opportunity to hit on a few things um you know one thing one thing that uh I uncovered in in trying to put together some notes is that um and I I kind of will take a fair amount of the responsibility for this is that when when the E the Eda operates as a as a kind of an ongoing concern you know as does the council but unlike the council EA has about more on the Eda since it 2009 and on the predecessor to the Eda for two years PR so um you know whereas with the council um and the mayor I think I've uh I can't count the number of council members I think the fifth City manager just during my tenure at the Eda and sometimes uh I think we lose sight of the fact that um you know we we do things and operate and to fulfill our duties in a manner um based on having the historical information and what have you but don't realize that there might be significant information Gap things we know or think we know what the council a lot of historical information on activities and things that have been done on some of these um and so one of the things that uh has become clear to me is that collectively uh you know we need we need to do better at that and and I when I say we collectively but mostly the Ed and making sure that know when we're asking Council for something um that you know we're we're conscious that um you guys may not have the historical information that we're making decisions I and I've kind of discovered even with our our Council Representatives the mayor and council member Cole um you know we've done some things or or we are discussing things or move through things quickly at the table um which might be easy for me or you know furong and a couple others that have been there for a long time because we know all the history we don't take time to um you know I that that is something that caused a little bit of uh Ruckus at our last meeting uh I think and then and when I try to digest that and you know how do we how do we find ourselves in the spot um you know there it's clear to me that if collectively we um had could Institute some better processes about how we treat the parcels at the city um how we manage them um not only from the standpoint of uh what do we want to happen with them but what has happened with them in the um and creating a process within the city I talked to Brian about that uh yesterday um about creating processes what does the city council require for you know development activities um if if we can be more forward thinking about that I think it will serve you know because there'll be a point on the Continuum from my perspective hopefully soon where I won't be at the table and it'll somebody else um and you know others will be in your chair um to be able to pass this information on or have good processes and all that we've got checks and balances and what's happening uh find ourselves at a point where we have you know diverging interests if you will Council expects or wants or desires or thinks is happening and what's actually occurring um the Eda what um does does that make some sense to the group or okay um you know one thing that uh I I did want to point out one thing that you know is uh regardless of what you know what goes on in the back and forth you know one thing that's abundantly clear to me and and we've always we been the Eda have always operated in this manner is that um we understand that almost everything we do requires a council appr um you know the Eda is not running Rogue and thing doing whatever they think is right um we we've uh done a lot of work over the years to um you know create uh things that help us understand what the vision buying from the community master plan probably be recent and relevant uh document to help us do that so um we're not trying to do things are are at odds and so and we've always tried to operate in that manner and so and hopefully that um uh anytime there's a a concern um you know please please understand that but uh certainly uh us or however that works to the council representatives to haywire here need to um the um before I I kind of get into some of the maybe the specifics property which is what caused some of the roughest um we have uh the Eda and I know uh a couple new council members um so I I'm not sure how familiar you are familiar you are with the Eda what we do we're supposed to be doing um there is uh and I it's not my intent to spend the entire evening does but I did I did want to kind of summarize a little bit for for those that um are kind of new to it if you will uh and and what I just gave you I printed directly just off the city's website summary of what what the Eda is charged with what our powers and Duties are um and and the things that we're supposed to be doing and for me the key takeaway of the handout I just gave you is you know the purpose of the Eda is to precipitate future development increase tax base promote employment and enhance overall quality of life and a conscientious and coordinated effort um when you get into the uh you know some of the specifics when you look under powers and duties talks about traing and defining Economic Development districts negotiating options to purchase sell these acquired rights in easements for economic development purposes into contracts uh as limited partner you know there's there's a lot of things uh the scope of what we're able to do as an Eda is fairly broad but again um none of that stuff uh really happens without the consent and and and so where we've gotten at least recently have gotten a little sideways on some of this is um myself included but others on the Eda at times that felt a little tethered in our ability to execute we're supposed to be doing I don't necessarily I don't blame anybody at this table or or the EA table as far as that goes it's really just a function of um not having you know good good processes uh in place and and setting and doing a few things that I think would would help that a great deal um one of one of the uh I did want to say you know as I was looking through this last night um you know there's there's little if anything that the Eda on this list in terms of what what we're supposed to be doing or um should be doing you know that we haven't done or aren't doing at this point I think the only thing I saw on that list is uh about owning a parking ramp and running a parking ramp or something we haven't done that yet we have no parking ramp um oh yeah May operate and maintain public parking facility housing facility that we have not done but just about everything else on that list we either do on the regular or uh you know we've done in the past or we are doing uh the video watched earlier you know that was the Genesis of that was at the Eda paid half of it whoever P um you know which is you know again part of the uh you know growing North St Paul and changing perceptions you know what the city um but as we you know we're always open to scrutiny uh certainly um things come across your table that that we may be involved in um you know one of the one of the things we do need to that we prefer and want to avoid if possible is particularly when it comes to dealing with developers is undoable when um when we deal with uh you know commercial developers um we understand that they don't the pace at which they desire to move and want to move and regularly move sely at odds with any government moves understand that um and most of them understand that too but um for us to be able to to be effective with um you know developers particularly out when I outside developers when I say outside outside developers I'm talking about developers that don't have connection number of people in this town you know including myself that have some tie here and have developed property in this test a little bit easier to deal with they understand um but when we're trying to get big money investment private money investment from the outside to the north to North St Paul um you know there's just a lower level of Tolerance in patience for um foot dragging as they see it we need to we need to find ways to to act quickly if of you know guidelines that we have um the um and what what happened recently is is we kind of got we got a little bit sideways on that across the street I'll talk about that minute one of the and one of the spots that we don't what kind of unfolded uh the other day is U one of the one of the spots that we get in is is that the Eda and its members are trying to execute what they believe their responsibilities are and and and then when they get throttled or or feel like you know somebody you know we're being held back from executing what we need to execute and in this case again it it was at the time it was a perception of the council that wasn't in hindsight that wasn't the case at all but um that's how it came across well it it's important that we understand that the people on the Eda you know th those folks are you know possess a high level of expertise in a number of areas you know development Finance they're all volunteers um and and the spot we don't want to find ourselves in is where we've got this uh good Brain Trust down there trying to execute you know what they've been asked to execute spending their you know personal time uh and capital to get that they feel like they're being really have to be cautious of that in my opinion because that if if that kind of vibe is out there it's going to be very tough to get people to serve things that the Eda um the so to to kind of cut to the Chase and what happened the other day real quick is at our last e meeting the Eda presented a memorandum of understanding for the parcels that are owned by the city across um and we we we had approved it and we forwarded it to council the reason we forwarded it to council Eda does not control that property the Eda is titled to some entity within this so we needed to get the council approval that on that document um and we did that as a matter of course course because uh you know technically we have the authority right here but we don't own the property so we need to get the counsel fairly simple document I don't I'm not entirely sure what happened I think it went to a council Workshop uh maybe the there wasn't a quorum there was some discussion about it and and then ultimately I'm going to blame myself because I missed the first Eda meeting in many many many months in September and I came back in over thinking this thing was executed and down the road and it wasn't and and you know so um I was trying to figure out what happened um and uh however it got sideways doesn't matter um the point being is that if the Eda had the authority to do that which is what you're asking us to do here at s know and work on developing properties you rely on the Eda to do do that we got to find a way to get the Eda the full authority to do that on the parcels that we we need to be able back and we need to be able possible and uh uh theou in this case is a uh it's a very simple document if you're not familiar with it it's a document that basically in the case of the property across the street it says Mr developer uh we will we will agree that for a period of time in this case I think was three months um we will will not engage with others and attempt to convey sell that property or develop it with somebody else will give you the exclusive right to work on it and we won't cut you off from under your feet in exchange you will go spend the time money and resources to put your stuff together and bring it back to us to see if you have some conceptual reasonable conceptual plans finances Etc and then it takes off from there I mean that the Eda needs the ability to do that quite frankly on every property that the city owns don't kind of tie in the eda's hands got to figure out a way to get um if that if that's in fact what you want the Ed um the um you know the the request uh you know so this request comes back and next thing we hear is that there's uh and and again I'm not sure the current status of this it doesn't really matter but you know we're we're getting appraisals we're replatting the property we're doing all kinds of things that personally as a developer construction person real estate person third that we would be doing any of that um there's no point in it at this juncture um and um and and so what we've done is effectively slowed the process down when you slow the process down uh it becomes problematic um not not to do proper due diligence but when you slow it down Developers get leery they get itchy they get scared um why why does that happen it happens it can happen for a lot of reasons um you know one of the uh you know I've said this in the Eda table quite a bit uh you know indecision in time kills development um and it can be for a lot of reasons you know developers uh often times um you know they they may have uh uh they may get leery that they're going to get uh stuck in some drug out process with not really committed to developing property within their City have you particularly if that happens on the front end you know they jump ahead to okay what's it going to be like you know the memorandum of understanding done which is a very simple document what's it going to look like when we get to financing and if or whatever else might be involved you know and replatting and blah blah blah um and they're just like well we don't have time for that we need to deploy our money and a lot of times that's what it is they have cash and they need to deploy it um and and we're not talking about you know bucks here we're talking about millions of dollars that developers when they come in and we want to capture that as from you know as a city if we can um and that doesn't mean that we you know accept anything that comes along that's not what I'm saying but what we do is we do need the opportunity to play this stuff out so it's important that we do everything we can you know to uh be cognizant of that and I think we need to get to some new processes and I've got some ideas on um that will help us you know act more promptly one of the big issues um and and this is a bit of a history uh you know from my perspective um over a decade ago um when we finally got the Eda going one of the first things we did is we number of you know you sit around the table okay what what do we do so one of the first things we did is like why why do we have all these empty Parcels in here and there's no developers knocking on our door and every single developer in town is over there in St Louis Park you know building everything they can in a new development every single week's going out you know what are they doing that we're not doing you know Outreach and we found out in Fairly short order um the development Community basically thought we were we were unfriendly to developers um now you know not in a Minnesota nice unfriendly way they thought you know we had no process we didn't know what we wanted collectively this you want that I want something else um and and so they just avoided us like the plge because time is money to them you know these are Commercial Business people time is money and and they just avoided us like the pl so collectively as a city uh the Eda the staff planning uh the mayor and counsil at the time you know we went through a whole process to say how do we become more friendly to development that involved you know part of the Genesis of of uh getting the Eda to do certain types of activities uh we redid the zoning we redid the process of you know kind of application planning and site reviews and all this other business um got the word out there and it took a long time and and as you can see you know around the town which I think most of you have well if not all of you the stuff going up here I mean that's a re you know that's going up now Lily building all the stuff down the old anchor block site all of the stuff is you know that's outside money and and um that's a result both of those efforts willing to come in here and say the time will spend our Capital here because it's investment and it's known process known out of it form and so if we start going backwards in that regard U you know we risk we can regain the unfriendly label a lot quicker than it takes to gain the friendly label and we just we just can't let that happen collectively um the uh so so the delay in this mou uh or in this memorandum understanding that we had across the street you know one of one of the things that was frustrating for me and I I guess personally and I think for other members of the Eda is again this this scenario where we have people that have been at the table they they they know just about everything that's happened on that property since we tore the you know the acquired it and the dentist buildings were torn down and and what it's done since it's sat there for the last 1 years um we know we we have all of the detail of the prior uh agreements that we've had with developers over there we've seen what people have tried to do we know what will work what don't what an you over to the council what track it took uh we don't get it back and we're like what's going on what what but when you look at it in hindsight again um you know we didn't really equip whoever you know received it on this end with all of that information you know here's a concept plan that quite frankly up and that's fine um's this mou sign it which I'm not sure I want to that or whatever um and that that just puts us in a in a difficult position you know with this developer and potentially uh we risk losing that that opportunity um and we want to make sure that that doesn't happen so um you know moving forward what what do we do I think the key things for me uh from my perspective is that um there are some specific tasks I think we can do um you know one of the things particular is um you know creating good uh jackets or good files on every property that we have get the history I don't even think we do that now if we don't some of these properties have have been lot um and and we should have all that information and have it at hand and we do go uh to try to do something have it available um moving forward I think it's important that the Eda has got to commit to communicate more clearly if we have time Sensi need to get approval on this um and and we're going to work hard to do that through staff and I'd certainly encourage a deeper engagement between the council and the Eda to help prevent any um kind of diverging positions between the Eda and the council regarding our efforts or anything that we're working on um I I know we we do issue an annual report as required by our bylaws to the council every year that you know that's a kind of a synopsis of what you know has occurred in in in recent times and a little bit about what we're working on but when you only see that once a year it's hard I I canot you know unless you're a council rep to the Eda I don't how you could possibly um we should probably find a different methodology to to do a more frequent update maybe that needs to be some sort of core to keep council members what's out there so and things um I talked about control these Parcels earlier um I I don't know what it looks like to be frank uh I I do think that if we have uh if we have property within the city that is available for development and property it needs to be in the control of need to be able to act on stuff and we need to be able to do it um you know without subjectivity to the timelines and to be clear nothing's getting built on any property without it hitting your desk it's not going to pop up across the street if conf one of the interesting things that we found out as part of this part as part of this process are things that we should be doing as an Ed and there was somebody suggested that we uh begin to replat it uh I I I think I found out from you that those Parcels aren't even all owned by the same entity within the city well if we're prepping a pro a parcel for uh Redevelopment get them all Under One Roof you know let's get one owner so we're not dealing with that at the 11th and this is the kind of stuff that um or know that you know that you know Jo Smith who died 22 years ago doesn't own some sliver that runs right through the middle of it right um so there there's a lot of things that we can do and again I think the Val I I'm not sure who asked me somebody May or you might have asked me you know what's the pitfall of signing control or maybe it was you Brian you know of these properties to the eada I'm not sure I know that answer um other than to back stop it by again saying um whatever is going to occur on these properties under our bylaws and under the way we operate kind of hit your desk anyways we just need to be able to operate aou is is just a good example and that's why keep could assigned it on the spot not have to come back would be working on something hopefully spectacular that we would see next month instead of all down the road um so I I would encourage the council to I don't know if that's a council activity a staff activity e is asking for it we need to find a way to get those properties within our control it might be as simple as a not sure what it looks like but need to do something to um uh would ask I know that in the consent agenda tonight there's a couple items in the consent agenda that I would like U thatou I'm talking about is in the consent agenda um you know Salvage your opportunity to see what this um and bring it back to you for we get executed tonight um the other thing completely unrelated to anything I've talked about tonight um one of the councilman Co Cole and I tried to throw my own Redevelopment master plan in my face about what could and couldn't be done across the street over here um uh I did never acquest I'm glad I didn't I think that there was him before the meeting I found a loophole um but um as I was uh going through there I noticed some the consent agenda we have uh an approv I think it's an approval of a representation agreement to sell 25797 that's the case that we try to put Green Space I I'm not really sure how that have we got to this point with that but I would ask that the council pull that and entertain a discussion with the Eda or let the Eda comment or or take a position on this because that's city land and if it's City own land he developing it not selling it or more importantly what we should do when we did our visioning document we said Green Space we should be figuring out how to make it Green Space we tried and we didn't get to an agreement on costs and but that's what we said it should be document says are we now putting it up for sale I would ask that we revisit that view last thing we should do is be selling the owned property without taking the time to understand what it does for the city in terms of can do for the city in development and a lot of times that might times particularly that parcel is a good example as a standalone piece you say what do I do with this little thing is anything in there A lot of times it's a going to have to sit on it for a while we put some grass in there patch us over a but long to to get to to you know uh let it get out of our control for a few bucks because we need the money I would say we did bring it up at the Ed and we couldn't decide on it we thought we'd put it up for sale I think again I'm G to blame myself it's the one meeting I didn't make it to in a long long time I think is where that occurred and we had the I I clearly I've I've learned that I cannot leave you guys we also discuss the snow removal how much used as a place that's where we're talking about Paving it there's just a whole a whole on what we were talking and again not sure how it got there to be honest I just noticed it in the consent agenda t the mic excuse the opportunity that as well um so any rate with that I know I rambled a bit but um hopefully hopefully uh that's helpful and um I thank you for I appreciate you sitting on it I actually viewed the meeting I've been viewing the Eda meetings recently just because again theou for development at the marget street site uh when they came that gentleman came to propose to us his idea I mean it was a little out there kind of came out nowhere on my end um that's how I viewed it so when he came in and presented I felt like he didn't have the best marketing how are you going to get how what are you doing here and how you going to promote the the concept the concept of it right so I felt I wasn't ready to move forward with any of that on my end I'm speaking on behalf of myself here not at the table um that's where I was checked on that piece I I do while viewing that last um your guys' meeting I do personally believe that you have a good point there's a reason why we elected or we elected and created an group um it's for you to you all to help develop the city um so for example theou that you're asking for and to move forward with makes complete sense to me because have the Eda if you trying to assist with this and it we're holding things off it's not fair to you all um and I don't want to rehash that meeting by any means and it's available to everybody at this table to view online um please don't well I mean it's it's there it's well worth watching it's there and it's it is what it is at this point but this led to this discussion which is important to have and for the council to um uh in regards to I just want to touch on that site um in between sidewinders that we'll call it the um unofficial parking lot uh I was in favor of putting it up for sale uh but again you make a valid point I mean why would we sell something uh to somebody that we don't have control over either uh but much to Tim's uh Point too it's it what what does our Redevelopment plan look like and if we're putting if we're looking at the um the Margaret Street uh facility does it match and does are we following the Redevelopment plan that you guys all have well uh so I do believe that we are putting the cart before the horse and moving uh forward with a lot of things that we're not we should be doing we shouldn't be doing um so in regards to the m us I I do stand in favor with what you had indicated with that because that is why we have Eva um can I'd like to maybe speak to one of your points um you know the the you know there's traditionally a process of when a developer wants to do something sometimes it might be Eda driven or staff driven uh sometimes it's developer driven where they want to get you know what we'd kind of call a council read because everybody knows at the end of the day things wind up Council and Council SC um I concur with you that um uh you know what was presented um the opportunity across the street wasn't the best but in terms of you know just not necessarily how the uh I think John dobs did it yeah I'm not saying about how he presented it or whatever but one of one of the things I first you know and he and I have talked about it and he's uh conceded to this point um so I'm not saying any for me one of the first things I said is what you're rendering looks like a Tin Shed and there's no way we're putting a tin shed across the street from the city hall go oh it's not gonna be a tin ched that's what it looks like I said and you're G to have people that look at it and they'll never get it out of their head that it's a tin and so okay he he gets that right um and so the the process we're getting into is um is to provide the opportunity you know he's heard that feedback hey this is a development across the street from the city needs to give sufficient stature um if it's over there there's a whole bunch of other uh information that kind of comes with that development but we have to get into the process now I'm not going to spend the evening talking about all the the nuances about those Parcels over there and what what at least I believe can and can't be done and what's been not not likely to be a housing project over there um and um you know and and there's a lot going on with the type of project that he's proposing you know around the highly beneficial and fit Square in the zone what we want in this Council pointed out those haven't had the opportunity to fully you know that area is listed as prominent based on it being in the downtown district listed as three things it's listed as multiuse it's listed as downtown core and it's listed as transactional trans transition transition zone which has zero definition which I love and that's what I'm hanging my hat on transition Z undefined but anyway we'll get there I it you know some of this stuff just has to play out right and um I I think that's important I can understand your frustrations um I also I also see but are you I mean in the meeting it got a little heated um so um but I also understand to some of these buildings downtown some of us didn't know that candy store was coming in what a great asset to our community um so how we wrap our head around what comes in down there from a rental standpoint I don't know but I'd really like to know how we can because that there is a fine gentleman that owns that that has a lot of ideas for this city and um I know not only myself uh but but I know others too have invited him to go to an Eda meeting because of the ideas that he does that's I mean um you know the one thing on the you know we talked about you know why you don't sell land um just one example of what what bad could look like if somebody can and buy that property the city that to build there is nowhere near what the vision calls for nowhere near what anybody at this table might like tell them no we don't want to find ourselves in you know no reason to put ourselves in that so myself too just trying to gather the information didn't know that was really going on over at Margaret till you brought it up didn't know it was you know we started January you know I knew there was some talk back with bang it didn't really didn't go on I'm just trying to get my head wrapped around that also when it comes to and I we agree we disagree on this is for myself as appr appraisal just kind of understand what we have as a value we paid ,000 for one of the Lots over there we paid 175,000 for another lot and there's other four Lots we don't know I don't know what they are yet so the great last one yep exactly so that's where have to understand as taxpayers what we have into these things you know if we you know one comment was we give dirt you know or we give tax when when I was there that day at the Eda so I want to and that was yeah that's fair that was a bit flipping but yes well but we have to know what we're giving away so we have to know the value so to me it's part of that portfolio we do not have here's the lot here's the demen here's who owns it here's what we paid for it here's what the appraisal is for it there's your packet move on with it from there that's where I am because right now it's nobody knows what he's going to pay nobody knows what what it what it was worth what we put into it we have to justify us you know get elected have to justify what you know where we get this and how we understand um as far as it doesn't matter like that one lot over there 440,000 well that wasn't paid for that but we have to understand what it is now and where we're going to move for that right but we also have to trust that we put that in the eda's hands I mean we're gonna we'll just sa we're going to be done in four years and they have already been working on something two years prior to us being elected we have trusts that are revisiting everything we have trust that they've made the decisions properly and not go back and say well we need to do this this this and this so when it comes to the appraisals and things like that I mean the fine example is um and I think it's a fine example is the 17th in Delaware land um where we got all those proposals and we came in as new Council and we're like oh but what if you know we have three of these but now what if we pull back on this and right now we're getting appraisals for it but now we've held off on three of those developers even though there was a plan moving forward for us to vote on you know I mean I mean well we're the ones that people vote to go in and out so we have to understand what you know for me on the money side of it to where where we are with it as far as the appraisals that should not be something that should be something as the city works with the EDM we need to have numbers to go off in my mind when when I was referring earlier to um know creating some processes and then I mentioned you know we should have a jacket or a file on property know why we wouldn't as a city you know have a process of maintaining raise value on the properties that we own um kind of silly properties I know what every single one's worth at least what I think it's wor um and we should know that and In fairness the Eda the one property we own but that's right here and if I walk up I'm probably know to that's not that old but you know why don't we have that on every parcel that we that's the question I've been asking and and where's some of the frustration just to be clear where some of the frustration is we're in the process of trying to get something done done by me I'm out we're going to spend eight weeks getting appraisal to find out we make that group I have a pler of reasons why that whether it was articulated well or not why that those things shouldn't hold up what we're doing it's not a function of whether they they should be and I think again this is in the interest of us getting better at what we do should collectively do that because I would love even for my when I say mine edas from from our own perspective you know we have people that come in and out too asons or or members of the Eda um and it would be great to say okayy somebody's interested in this parcel because I miners in a tattoo shop and we could open up the file even if we haven't been there and we can say okay well we tried to do this back in 2006 and we did this and what did we pay for it and and blah blah blah blah blah and what do we use it for right so we we have a I mean we should have that on when we in a process that Council me it would have I would think have approved by Council you know but a process that says you know home every five years we get it updated what stop with the Delaware and the 17th is we're paid 140 150,000 in 2002 and we're looking at you know anywhere from 70 to whatever so to me there has to be some justification as far as where we're at with it what we paid and the value and things like that then we could always say it's for the good we're going to do this but I think we have to stand behind it and not and be able to to get that that's where I am with it just understanding that there's going to be negotiations it's not going to be 400,000 that was the appraisal set we understand but that's where we go from and work our way in what we paid for it and this is uh this is a spot to me where we can get decidedly better as a city um Eda H has and not saying we don't but has a I'll say a stronger appreciation for the types of things that Council Cas with and um and we don't just send us P um we we were able to come and give you all of that information and have a um you know we're keeping dockets on all these you know here's the history into it this is what we've tried to do yes we paid 140 and we're able to sell I don't even I'm not familiar with I'm familiar with the property but not the issue and you know yes we paid 140 and now asked to sell it for half that here's why you should do that here's why that's a good deal for you then you guys don't have to sit up here and rack your brand because there is issues with the property the sewer has to be moved there's cost to develop that and that's understood exactly so that becomes part of the the the appraisal we know the amount we know we paid then we know okay we have to turn now from there because this needs to be done I'm just speaking out loud but in hindsight you know from an eda's perspective um human nature why would we engage on stuff on if the council were to say paa you do all this as a matter you know to me that seems like I agree because that you know the due diligence of getting it and then like you said well it will change we won't be here but we were the ones that the the people look at and elect so we are accountable and that part of that is things keep coming up we have to understand if we continue down the path of the developer across the street I would fully expect to be back to the Eda back here to this group why it is I I love the idea of a jacket on every property if I could make that a motion and have that happen I would one of the things I'd really like to see in that jacket too when like the mor the note that you want us to sign thank you um is expected variances that would have to be approved for the project to go forward one of the things I'm still even unclear about the the project that's proposed there is although I um is whether or not there would be any variances that we'd be required to pass in order for that um property to go up there as they're intending I was under the impression that one of the reasons why it was brought to us in a previous Workshop is there were going to be some variances that we would have to approve um so so things like that in a jacket where we'd like you to sign this you know no variances or this would be the assumed variances that would have to go um to make this happen to me would be wonderful information for us to have the variance issue would come at a much later date there's a lot of work to get done very few properties within the city particularly in the downtown district district for development let me we all going to have VAR can't tell you what they are but that's the work the developer needs to do and um so but you know I do think that uh again getting some of what as you just described it you know us communicating better that we want you to approve this in it it's it is exactly what I said it is earlier we'll allow you to work on this for a period of three or four months promise not to sell it out and I was more ask for the variances to be fair to them if if for the project next door they were going to ask for variance to for to be eight stories we could say you know what that's going to be a deal breaker and we'd rather not have you invest but but that's kind of that's the kind of stuff that the Eda does all the time I can't tell you how many developers that I have met with over the years that had ideas of doing with in this town and I don't even need to take it to staff or planning or or Council or anybody they came and said that a gonna happen right and that's not me playing king that's just me knowing that it's not going to happen they're not going to put an eight story hotel across the street from City Hall yeah just you know but it's that information sharing so we're not blindsided on what the expected result and intention would be would be wonderful I like to see that relation and talk about it because I learned a lot at that meeting even though you know it was good everybody left fine but it got you know it got opinions and I think we were able to discuss and think you thought about things I thought about things and everybody else at the the meeting does because we said we're dropped in new so a lot of this stuff is we don't know the history I got a lot of history from emails I've received from people about the property and different things so it's it's been it's a it's a large learning curve in this time so that's what we're trying to figure out yeah it is and we we we have to do better right because it's easy for me to sit there and say oh geez some council member wants to put housing or wants to do this over there and I've been down that path 12 times already well the council member doesn't know I've been down that path 12 times you know they don't know that we we beat our head against the ball made a better process for including a you know hey we sign up to do something that feedback loop that tells by the way we've played this out and it doesn't work and here's that would be good information exactly 100% I I'm I'm getting into a bit of Utopia now I mean it's good information we can all dream glad you uh came up because I think it was good information to be able to talk over this because there was questions and just understanding where we should be as far as us having prepared the you know a jacket of some kind understanding the past where we looking for the future and you know where we're at to start with would be great I really would think that would work out well for us so did you learn that you can't miss a meeting well so I missed one totally joking so I missed one when this was originally presented the day job got in the way of the city job that was intentional and I miss the workshop okay this is gonna be dice so first off Robert I want to thank you for coming you possess the most institutional knowledge of any of us at the table probably combined um so sharing that is I mean it's it's huge um yes it was a spirited meeting it I think it all for the most part ended well I think there may have been a few bruised people along the way um there were some pretty direct stabs at Council um so I actually had staff with Brian's assistant go back and take a look at how many things has the Eda brought forward to council and I came up with over the last five years about 10 things seven of us seven of which were passed hands down four to one are completely unanimous um two which is on the same topic have yet to be resolved and that's the the space on sth and the last one is what we're going to talk about tonight that you know for the for across the street so to say that this the council doesn't support the Eda um I think was a bit harsh um I think it was out of line um and I don't think it's in the spirit of of what's here uh council member Wong sat on the Planning Commission for two years until she moved this year um I've sat on the Eda for two years now when the seat was vacated by another council member um and the only piece I wanted to bring up during that meeting that I wasn't in attendance at was the city spent three years putting guard rails um and a vision together for what downtown would look like um and the only piece that I wanted to bring up was it doesn't what's going in with the exception of the transition zone which is undefined it doesn't meet the other two um the other two areas that were there and that's that doesn't mean for or against I just wanted to bring to the attention um I am aligned with you that the Eda does need some wiggle room they need the opportunity to to to to move on their own to cut some of that time down um you know I I completely agree but I think there needs to be boundaries your guard rails put up along it as well and if if we see something skirt in the direction maybe that's when you know we bring it to a workshop we bring it to something um to make sure that council is still aligned with it going forward because um it was a 10 boxes of six foot fence put around it that's what was presented um it's unfortunate um hindsight's always 2020 but um I fully plan tonight to pull those two items off the consent agenda to have further conversation um so they aren't just you know so they they are discussed and I just want to thank you again for spending all the time and energy to to bring this group up to speed I hopefully I was clear you know that with the benefit of H insight and I I haven't rewatched the meeting so I'm not it's um I I don't again I I don't think that there if people were upset at Council and I don't know that that's really the issue and um but that that would have been ill place for sure thank you than Robert appreciate it appreciate you want to read off the consent agenda thank you mayor consent agenda item a 3rd 2023 Workshop minutes Item B October 3rd 2023 regular meeting minutes item C General claims 3 million 25952 and6 the H claims of 9,474 item e 2579 7th Avenue listing agreement me purchased energy sa kit for coning requirements for 2023 mg school resource officer agreement for ISB the mou for development at the marget street site I approval of consent settlement agreement J resolution adopting change of Workshop meeting time a declaration of surplus for and re-approve ordinance amending the 2023 Municipal seed anybody want to pull any yes okay um go ahead you item a please so work that minute more um I would like to pull e the sth Avenue listing agreement and I would also like to pull H theou development Margaret Street for further conversation that go down under the yeah yep okay all right thank you all right so we go to uh meeting open of the public n we have John SCH do we have to approve the ones we didn't pull first oh do we have to maybe probably wouldn't hurt all right so move thank you from counc Norby council member Cole all favor say I I I thank you worried about where I was going to put them thank you John I'm alling up go f closer to the the mic thank you that's a pleasure it's a pleasure next anyway John schal 2750 Chisum Avenue Nur St Paul uh mayor councel uh it's wonderful the workshop meeting Time Is Now official it is no longer out there you know somewhere in the Netherlands thank you and uh it only took a month with a probably a city that isn't extraordinary it might have taken a year anyway working Council yeah we worked on it uh I would just like to say that there sometimes there's free entertainment in North St Paul I was going to uh Cub on Thursday night when it was raining and windy and uh I'm on aiel and there's this truck that is coming towards me I'm headed towards cub and there's a engine running on the back of it and a guy up on top and whatever and looked at what's going on and there's seeding at that time evidently it's the part of the contract or whatever to seed the edge of the road but the edge of the road with the wind uh from the sidewalk where they were uh blowing that papier-mâché type stuff with the seeds uh there was uh leaves along there so they were doing a good job of seeding the leaves I don't know if that's a media that uh grass feed uh really works very well with but anyway that's the experience on that um you council member nordby brought up uh about uh electric rates and you discussed a lot about electricity I got my hands on a uh uh city of St Paul EXL Bill and our rates are 7.3% higher than EXL and if you want uh to see my calculations and the background and data that I use on that I'll give it to you but I don't come with things like Dave Nelson is and giv you a w of paper like this that probably is going to be uh recycled immediately uh and today uh I was walking back from spks to my house the auto repair on 120 and happened to pass over 36 and my God the pollution smell the cars were backed up so I don't know if doing something to the 36 to get cars to move constantly would help out but uh probably would but it was gagging the the light at s waiting at centy yeah they were waiting at that it was gagging to walk over that bridge and so those people who uh in times now who say that their health is affected by roadways it certainly is in my estimation anyway all right thank you John thanks John all right anybody good thank you all right we'll close that and off to next up is a public hearing for special assessment hearing for unpaid bills and authorized the city of nor Paul certified to the county auditor's office all in take PE discuss you want to read that now no we need to open the meeting oh I'm sorry clst the public heting e public meeting at 8:14 now open it back up open up public he do we have vote on that okay thanks thank mayor thank you mayor council member members uh tonight is a public hearing on the special assessment hearing for unpaid uh utility bills um on September 19th uh the city council approved um the public hearing it's been published noticed um and notices were sent out to all of the parties um that have delin abilities um if it's approved tonight there's three resolutions that go along with it um kind of just some information on September 19th there was a little over $32,000 that was out standing um on 10th at time of this publication the backup material will show you without interest which into effect yet was 29,000 and as of of uh today it's down to 28,000 um after the public hearing is done um we'll still have 30 days um today um November 17th um at that time we will close them um we'll get ready to them to Ramsey County then they'll end up going Texas in4 um at that point in time they will include interest right now they're interest free U for solid waste recycling it's a six% interest and all the others have a 10 that um and if public has any comments regarding um any of this open it up to okay well there's three resolutions that need to be passed um by the city council um therefore uh North St Paul properties Maplewood properties and um properties that are in North St Paul um but they're built by the city of no were in the packet y so want to take a motion on that then can we do it all three in one shot yeah all right so move Council second second council member Cole all those in favor say I hi I thank you much I don't need to you have to close it okay thank you back there I will close close the meeting to meeting open to the public I'll close it I don't have my little thing here anymore go get it I just thought of that all right so now we got the city business action items so a is um from our can I start with it am I good all right for a it's at the at the meeting October 3D 2023 the city council had a close session um conducted a performance evaluation of the city manager the close s session was conducted pursuant of the Minnesota statute section 13 d. 5 sub division 3A thank you we got reports from the city manager so we have to go sorry we got our new letters okay a is a is done so now who's B no well it's B right so Workshop minute yeah so I pull that um just to kind of uh clarify what um I was trying to say um it's in paragraph two on page two of that document um and I in regarding the fines I wasn't suggesting that we increase fines I was trying to clarify um what the fines were and why they were that way that would be the only clarification and that's it thank you thank you so do we need to approve with change made so moved so move ccil member s all those in favor say I hi all right thank you item C is 2579 7th Avenue listing um I pull that um primarily over the concern that you know we addressed with with u Rd just my concern is if by selling the property the city would lose control over development of what the said property would look like um there's nothing that I can come up with that would stipulate if the property was sold the timeline in which a developer would build building thing it might sit vacant for uh another you know extended period of time so um I just wanted to pull it out and say um I am not in support of putting it for sale I think the time and energy of of Brandy getting everything already to go but I think that the property is better served um staying under City control so I will not be in support of of it moving on tonight I also will say that even though I did influence on the appraisal of that piece after knowing a little bit more about Eda and that Roberts um on Robert's behalf I I also think I I also will not support it because I do believe what he had indicated I think we should all more control and eda's plan far as I understand we'll still the appraisal we just won't put it up for sale because we're going to try to get appraisals for everything I'm just kind of clarify what you just appraising yep okay yep I I'll be in favor of that I am not in favoring okays good maybe and then it's voted down then we will move forward with that decision and is part of that just the no pra's going forward right come on yeah stret your back anyways you fell over there for a minute um the the motion on the table would be related to whether or not to approve the listing agreement Reed it's just the listing the list so we are not listing it that's what we're trying to figure out off the vote yep that's the only part we're going to talk about is not listing piing up put now yeah all right we vot on it go ahead Brandy the table could I ask a question yep in your opinion um any property that sells on Main Street like that how with their current zoning and rules and regulations that we have for Main Street how Divergent could a property truly be from the well um like in terms of variances well no uh I apologize I don't I'm losing his name um Robert was saying that if someone bought property they could put something out there that is not within the vision of Downtown North St Paul and I was wondering with with the zoning laws and the yeah um as I understand it the if Council wanted to move forward with the listing agreement we couldn't put it out for sale this is get get your question um if we had an interested developer or purchaser we could sign a contingent offer that they have to have a concept that would be approved by Council so I think that is an option if we wanted to try to move forward um if we had somebody interested in selling or sorry purchasing it they wanted to build something that was completely in line with boning we wouldn't have any reest they needed some kind of variance ory or any other deviation from from the regulations then it would have to come through Council first thank you for that answer I appreciate that sure I think part of it two after the meeting which I thought was very good have Robert here and just understanding now how they're going to enhance what we're doing right now it's kind of been just here like he said just threw it over there we didn't have any explanation so now that we're talking like packets and understanding what we have you know looking at what we paid what the value is um I would I'm G to voting that uh we don't for sales well I could add since that I am fully supportive of having a process established for how to deal with props um kind of a if this then that situation we would receive it as staff potentially as the first stop does the concept meet our plans does it meet our zoning which body does it need to be uh reviewed by and kind of have a flowchart that would help us is ask out who needs to review an you've on you've gone through a lot of different because we don't have a plan and I know it's been frustrating and it's been difficult to try to get it so I appreciate all you did but I think this got us to a spot now we're we're all on the same page moving forward so I apologize about what it took us to get here but I think going forward it's going to be better is there asking to or or one of you would motion to den I for vote um or we make a motion for but then we vote I depends on the motion okay I'd like to make a motion of denying it make motion not selling the proper correct I make a motion of not selling the property so if you're not in favor of selling it it's a yes here want to make sure everybody's on the same page because R sometimes flips it so I want to make sure I'm good thank you so your motion again please say it my motion is not dollar property okay all those in favor second oh oh I have to do that second yeah I second it oh I was just going to R oh oh my apologies oh that's fine on 8:30 council member we move the motion to not sell the property do I have a second please second council member Cole all those in favor say I I I thank you clear as mud yep we got her long as the Saucy stays good we don't have to know how it's made all right item D isou for development at maret um and I'm pulling that it was brought to uh it was brought to workshop on a night that there were only three of us present so we did have a quorum um opinion was given and the opinion was not necessarily in favor of theou and I recommended that it come in front of council at a later time when we all had five people here to represent um and again my primary reason for not being in favor of theou has absolutely nothing to do with the developers nothing to do with the Eda uh I appreciate the fact that that there are individuals and organizations willing to come invest into North St Paul um mine was strictly from the standpoint that the city spent three years developing um a Redevelopment master plan put in place that I know you had two years on from planning I had a year and a half on um sitting on the Eda and it didn't it didn't match the two criteria that I read uh Robert was wonderful enough to bring it to my attention that on page 37 uh it's also listed as a transition zone which is not defined as to what that development looked like um but the two areas that I brought up during the workshop is it didn't match because it's not it's it's defined as core downtown and it's defined as as mixed use so I didn't feel that the program in my opinion met those two requirements doesn't mean I'm opposed to it that just means I would I will vote a nay um moving forward with theou just based just based on the fact that I feel I need to protect the the Integrity the documents um as well as the vision and the guard rails that that were set for but it has absolutely nothing to do with the developer nothing to do with the development um it just has to do with guardrails that were put in place for future development of the city there thoughts on it yeah when I look at the um master plan too sea was related to be pedestrian friendly as well and so to put um it just didn't really match so um two questions one can we vote at workshops I was confused why it was at a workshop no it was a workshop to get guidance yeah um to see where where the alignment was whether we wanted to move forward with it or not we cannot vote at a workshop okay y um I proba I'm going to be voting I um for this memorandum simply be the main reason being um any property owner that wants to put forth um the time and effort next to a property because he already owns the property right by it um I'd be interested in seeing the vision he can come up with to see if it can become in line with our CIP and I I believe this property being next to his own um is our best chance of getting it developed my my was what I said in the workshop is we're taking property from uh another spot so we're gaining the doubling the the spot as far as the property we're going to be having the sewer and the in the aerial which is the easement in the middle of it um he has the parking behind it for anybody that's using the um that facility so it does take care of some of the parking issues to your point I'm just wondering maybe for clarification on theou is that if if we do not sign it or agree or vote Yes to it does that mean that the um um individual proposing this business plan cannot my understanding is it's just for for four months or something correct correct yep yeah it's not correct there's nothing that's getting past it's just to give them the time to figure out a plan that looks better and to understand what it is and the developer can continue to move forward with the development regardless of what the what the passing or the non-passing of theou uh theou just says that the city will not move forward in the next I believe it was three months correct um with any other developer to develop that property yeah so kind of first wrer refusal get a plant together that may be more feasible I guess where I'm coming at I'm trying to WRA I'm trying to wrap my head around all of it right now so so right there we're just saying you have first right nobody's going to try to you know it's not really going to be marketed anybody else you I yeah yep you have that's for you to just extend the courtesy of three months to get your plans together and to move forward with what's your what your design whatever else is going to be how it's going to fit in and that's when Robert says I'm going to come back and talk to you know once we get that far and say the reason why this should work or it's not going to work thank you is that am I correct yes yeah theou doesn't stop them from moving forward doing whatever they want it to the only thing it doesn't the only thing theou does is protects them from somebody else to come in and want to correct um which I think that if we have a developer that's interest the city would still hear out the first party while they're listening to the second party you ready for a vote vote so get my brain wrapped around to approve theou okay so we are so we are voting yes to either to extend the extend it to them for the three months theou correct correct me if I'm wrong I can go off on it so can you resay that for everybody that's L sure where this vote is to approve theou for the three or four month timeline for them to get their docu get their stuff together and put more money into it as far as the design and how it's going to look and how it's going to affect the community okay so moved your honor so okay I'll second second so Norby all those in favor say I I I okay okay no no he seconded it but he F yeah I can I can second the motion keep things moving forward me pretty good I thought he switch I see the way you're working it's it's pushing nine and correct so we're thank you no you they can but that continue to move forward with what they want to do right right good all right well that's done thank you everyone for that anything else what was was we that one more or not okay thank you all right report Commander um electric is working on some mapping updates uh did you get the p removed along sea behind the development at Lily building um in there they did get holiday lights that we purchased this year again so it's the warm white light or the multicolored the sub maintenance is now finished the uh power transformer um um and there's called looked good uh leak that we had but it was minimal and it wasn't back to do a little bit of sub improve commity developments working on their park plan and working on the inventory parks over today they got the chase conversion for the everything went well good yeah works is out street sweeping they're working on their second time around city for that stuff up doing patching and televising that on that channel 16 so we can watch it like Community when Rising as well so they'll be closing the over Lake bathrooms um blowing out CL system the student build house is moving along they're putting walls up today and within a week or two they'll have the gas service put into the house so they can get it closed in for the winter and do their work good fire department has their fire prevention week so that was up here uh November 21st presentation yeah that's awesome they had a successful booah they sold out this was nice delicious said they uh new water recipe boats week of getting it so that worked out was good they were pretty excited about it they were y rescue a dog and then a kayaker yes oh my goodness yeah both same incident the lady lady saw pulled over grabbed somebody's kayak and went out there and was over yeah oh man trying to save the dog she got bit in the face and she's still under wow wow yeah yeah what a woman kind of dog is this started clearly a runner I believe the name should be lucky yeah name the boat that have that as a mascot and they're out there have the dog in the one more um the hometown holiday light contestation opens November 6th uh closes on December 8th all residences and businesses addresses are eligible to participate Nur and Paul Business Association will provide cash prizes for the first and second place entries winners announced at the final council meeting of the Year website for full contest all right reports city council commissions and committees Jo uh sure oh she's scratching it all off now um so the arts and culture commission um met earlier this month and um they were reviewing um and just kind of reflecting on the Arts Festival and um there was some discussion about location and potential um for maybe downtown at one point that's feasible um you know um and then let's see because that could also draw in other business or other people to other business um and then um there's been a lot of discussion around the Turtles um and um I just wanted to kind of throw out an idea um for you all um and get get a little bit of feedback before I take it to the arts and culture but maybe like some sort of turtle campaign um maybe it's uh working with youth to kind of put together a turttle campaign or some um art piece that I think it's awesome just the way to get you know kids engaged too um I I'm confused um sure are you we're not gonna paint the turtles yeah where where they're getting hit by cars okay I just to make sure I didn't know if there was like a different Turtle thing I didn't know about station they're everywhere real quick that's awesome yeah frogs on my side of town yeah that's right yeah Washington County has like a tunnel for them um so um I also wanted to bring up we had a young artist um with a rock snake and I think collected almost like 50 rocks from different people in the community that painted it and so she had it all outside of her um house and um they're hoping that you know maybe that um well she also came with the family um to present the rock snake and um she also made a poem for for the event so I would really love to see uh if we could bring her in um she's in grade school so um I just think it was really wonderful community building activity that um a young person was able there and we interested in that I like the idea of it I think that'd be great to recognizer maybe we can have something like painting of rocks and hiding rocks in the community which would be really cool you could host it I'm sure she she's she's a bright one leer for sure um and then let's see um phase 1.5 of of the utility box is completed so um there are two new ones up on second um and just right around where we have we line up for the parade so two new ones there and then they'll can more and more maybe integrating a little bit more um for different artists um at median maybe um so just kind of pouring that Avenue um also the photos on the um on the boxes are a gift from a local artist so um photographer and so we were really fortunate to and I think that's it um I know that we sold a uh a snowy so that's a ah yeah so I think that's all I have for now um for the month of October there was no Planning Commission meeting the next Planning Commission meeting is coming up on Thursday November 2nd um um on the 10th we had a core Community Center meeting uh where we gathered back together to discuss uh and recognize the progress or lack thereof that's been moved forward since February um com the communication really pretty much stopped um after there was um funding on both the state and federal level so um the primary con the primary outcome was the core group is looking to meet again probably in November um and develop a presentation to have in front of council uh after the first of the year as soon as we hear of what's going on um there was also conversation brought up that can the community center be open for the walking trail can we do some other things over the winter months to allow residents to get to get in so uh we've got more things to talk about more dialogue but um you know it's kind of the chicken of the egg thing right now what are we going to do with it do we want to Market it without the development do we want to develop it without um you know the the infrastructure redone so it was um the the core group and and wal felt that they needed a little more time to um to gather their thoughts together and then they plan on presenting the council to bring everybody up to uh Eed met last Tuesday um here in council chambers I think Robert addressed the majority of what was done it was a highly spirited fun um conversation that took place around multiple topics um Henry was here and presented the the presentation from open window which was shared here again as well [Music] um the only other thing I've got in my notes is that the facade Improvement program for the downtown businesses is still in consideration to move forward um it was a program that the city did away with um several years ago uh and there's definitely I think some need for for the city to to to interact again so um next Eda meeting is nov November 14th at 3 o' in council chambers thank you that cover everything yeah okay very good um I also viewed the arts and culture meeting it was I'm making a point to view everyone's just because it gives me an idea of just what's happening and engaging a little bit more in arts and culture Eda didn't have a chance me but um I will next month because I I like that um this reminder to everyone and I highly encourage it because I don't know too much about it but I look forward to attending it next Tuesday on the 24th at 7M Norma worm is presenting at the history at the history museum regarding the history of the toy toy shelf um so I don't know too much about it but last time I saw her she invited the girls down to um take a look at the toys down there so I'll be bringing the girls to that and we're gonna check that out what's that date again uh Tuesday the 24th at 7 p.m. thank you yeah and I know they really appreciate when Council goes up and it's fun to see everybody that history history uh committee and group uh parks and recck meeting is next Wednesday uh the 25th at 6:30 pm in council chambers thank you very much my calendar but I wasn't quick enough hold on get back to it all right General business um yeah so I attended the hangtime board shop event on Sunday and it was a skate ride or a ride um on skates or skateboard um walking biking um and it was a loop down downtown new streets which was nice and then um we kind of whipped around onto the Gateway Trail and then back um um and uh the event was for um just a remembrance for those who have passed due to suicide and so um it was really wonderful to have a lot of speakers there um people sharing their stories and um just really um eager to share um ways of prevention um they talked about um the 988 number so that's kind ofid or crisis so um I was really excited to see um that they were partnering with nami uh other gentleman who um teaches teachers to um work on emotional social emotional learning with so just a lot of cool different things going on and Mom there um yeah just really appreciated the Community Focus that they had and um yeah great owners there they trying to uh just wanted to remind everyone we have a special meeting on Monday October 23rd at 5:00 pm uh I want to shout out to Randy uh in public works um for listing the truck on munis bid uh he got like two or three times what the trade in value is going to be worth so uh again I want to commend everybody in the city for what they do to attempt to save and squeeze every nickel and dime to you know protect protect all the residents so uh big shout out to Randy I wanted uh thank the entire part of har for the booya um phenomenal turnout it sold out again uh they were great just enough to let me come hang out on Saturday night with them for a little while into the into the we hours so uh I appreciate them letting me hang out with them as well um and as council member schwe brought up um both the food shelf and the toy shelf uh council member Wong and I had the opportunity to tour both last year it was actually a formalized visit um and all Council attended um I would encourage someone to potentially do that again um they're two huge assets to the city and if you haven't been there uh it's it's phenomenal um so I would encourage that we get something on the calendar um to to show up as even as a you know as as a council if we can great okay okay thanks one thing I did want to ask um as far as the community center are we ready for winter there I know we had a lot of issues last spring or you know do we have to do something to Baton Down the Hatch because I know we can't put money into it because we can't you know something does happen we can't get it back so are we be replaced are still tied up same thing with buy I was I was there earlier in the Saturday with the guys I was lot of camaraderie nice to be able to talk to him and it was a was a good time is then like Sunday morning pick up that's so nice nine o'clock grab my booya it was delicious so thank the fire fire department for that um they're definitely uh definitely a very special group and they they do so much for the community so iate that and um that's my side so call for adjournment so move so move council member Cole Norby was too late all those in favor say hi thank you everyone nice meeting appreciate it thank you