Thumbs up. >> All right, let's stand for the pledge of allegiance. I >> pledge allegiance >> to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thank you so much. Roll call, please. >> Council member Nordby >> here. >> Council member Woods >> here. >> Council member McKenzie >> here. >> Council member Schwar >> here. Mayor Mongi >> here. >> Can I get a motion to adopt the agenda, please? >> Some moved. >> So moved. Council member Schwar. >> Second. >> Second. Council member Norby. All those in favor say I. >> I. >> I like it. Everybody's on the dime today for this. Good deal. All right. First up is a presentation and for the holiday lights award and AA is going to take that over. >> Welcome. >> Thank you, council. Okay, once you can see it on your screen, let me know. >> Okay, so we're back. Um, so I'll kind of give you the overview of what this was. Oh, >> can we have it up in the front screen, please, if you can? >> Yeah. Thank you. >> There we go. >> Awesome. Okay, so um residents have submitted their house, different pictures. Um what they're going to win is a um a sign that they can keep on their front yard. It says winner of the holiday lights contest, be featured in the newsletter tomorrow as well as on our social media um so that other people can enjoy their lights. So, how this is going to work is um you all got a blue sticky note in front of you. I'm going to show you four different houses. Um you guys will pick your favorite. Um I'll collect the sticky notes and then that will decide the winner. Okay, so submission number one. We have some nice candy canes. Very sparkly. >> Very nice. >> Okay, so that's >> Can we oo and a >> Yes. Can we oo and awe? >> Yeah, of course. >> Please. >> Number two, more colorful. >> Yes. >> Very nice. >> Depends what you like. Number three, we also have a back porch view. >> It's kind of fun. >> Very good. >> And number four, it's >> a big tree. >> Tree. Big tree. >> Okay. So, here's them all together. So, please write your your vote and then once you're ready, I will come and grab it from you. >> Did somebody borrow your guys' ladder truck to get that tree done? Holy moly, that's impressive. Okay. >> Have a GLG to get up there. >> Okay. And the winner is number four. So, the resident will be contacted. Congratulations. >> Um and then I'll get that signed to them and they can display it um for this season. >> They were all great. It was fun. >> Yes. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, council. Merry Christmas. >> Merry Christmas. >> Thank you everybody for submitting those. >> Yes. >> Participating. Mhm. >> All right, moving on to the consent agenda. Um, item A, December 2nd, 2025, city council workshop and regular meeting minutes. Item B, general claims of 1,785 or 782,6206. Item C, H claims of $1,8623. Item D, 2025 annual review of attendance of boards and commission members. Uh, item E, resolution accepting donations for November of 2025. Item F, building permits for November of 2025. Item G, resolution approving the reinstatement of Patrick Lee to the planning commission. Item H, arts and culture commission appointment. Uh, item I, resolution approving the 2026 fee schedule. Item J, approve the 2026 city council meeting calendar. Item K, annual resolution appointing acting mayor for 2026. Item L, 2026 annual polling place designations. Item N M special event permit for the history cruisers car show. Item N, approve surplus equipment from the fire department. Item O, approve abatement of dead ash trees. Item P, Ramsey, Washington Metro wershed district memorandum of understanding for removal of sediment in North St. Paul pond 7 and 4. And item Q, approve software and service extension agreement between the city of North St. Paul and Census. >> Thank you very much. Would anybody like to pull any at this time? If not, can I have a motion? >> I make a motion. >> Council member Swear. >> Second. Council member McKenzie. All those in favor say I. I >> I thank you very much. All right. Next part is meeting open to the public. John Schwall evening um council and mayor. >> Good evening. >> Um John Schmall, 2750 Chisum Avenue. The uh subject is the chlorine uh added to the water. Uh a couple of weeks ago, whatever it is, I found out about it because of a posting on Ring. Someone said, "Have you heard or have you tasted your water or smelled your water? Smells like chlorine." Well, on our side of town, North and West, no smell. I don't know if they injected it in the well on that side of town. No clue. But anyway, um about 10 years ago, I attended a seminar, whatever it is, put on by Ramsey County, and there was a uh professor from the University of Minnesota. It had to do with water and uh problems with water, uh as a source for drinking water. And his position was is that all water should be chlorinated. without a doubt it should be chlorinated to the point that he had decided uh that uh his cabin had a well and he would not drink that water he'd use it for bathing or whatever but he would bring he lived in St. Paul he would bring his water to drink from St. Paul where he lived and St. Paul's water is chlorinated. He was that adamant about having chlorinated water. So I decided, hey, I get up here and I'll tell the council this is what a learned person thought about chlorine added to water. And man, was that met with a like this. There was a movie that I remember Eli Wallock in it something about uh Posi or whatever and they were asked for their badges and I remember the statement going we don't need no stinking badges. So the response that I got 10 years ago from the council was we don't need no stinking chlorine because our water doesn't need it or something like that. You know, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Thank you. Thank you, >> John. Do you happen to remember his name? >> Do you happen to remember his name? >> No, I don't. So, 10 years ago, >> thank you. >> Thank you. >> Two years old. >> Well, I used to opposite. I used to go from St. Paul and get water in North St. Paul for my in-laws. >> Go ahead. >> All right. City business action items. Uh, first up, item A, adopt the 2026 final levy and budgets. And we'll probably move on to A, B, and C with Dan here. Um, and we'll move on to the 2026 non-levy budgets and then capital improvement plan. So, I'll turn it over to finance director Winnick. >> Uh, mayor, council members, I don't have a lot to say uh today about this. Uh you know this is the culmination of about 8 months of work uh starting what the department head has going through and preparing their budgets um to uh meetings uh for review with the city manager and myself to presentations to city council. Um we uh met on December 2nd last uh city council meeting and a workshop kind of discussed uh where we were at with the 2026 and where we wanted to be with the levy. And so all of the budgets and everything that are presented in front of you today and the resolutions are all in alignment um with our meeting on December 2nd. And so overall uh when you um take the city, the HA, the EDA, and again the city has a number of different components um made up of the general fund, street maintenance fund, park fund, asset preservation fund, and the debt fund. All of it is an 8% um levy increase over um last year. And um what that results into is a difference of uh $638,000. And so the resolutions, there's three of them. Uh there's a resolution for uh adopting um the final levy um for North St. Paul's general fund, park fund, street maintenance fund, asset preservation budgets, and setting the final 2026 general purpose and debt service levies. Um, so there's that resolution um that needs to be voted upon. Then there's the HRA levy and the EDA levy. But before you take any votes on to them, wanted to give the city council an opportunity to ask any final questions, um, concerns, um, and if there's any changes that they would like to make at this time before they vote. >> Thank you, Dan. Is there anything? We were pretty thorough. I think through our meetings, >> you've made it pretty clear, Dan. Meetings have been fantastic. I think we're, in my opinion, I think we're heading in the right direction. >> Agreed. >> I agree. >> We're good to go. >> So then we'll take the first resolution uh which is adopting the final 2026 general fund, park fund, street maintenance, asset preservation, budgets, and setting the final 2026 general purpose and debt service levies. >> Can I get a motion for that? >> I'll make a motion. >> Motion. Council member Schwar. Second. >> Second, Council Member Norby. All those in favor say I. I. >> I. >> Uh, and the second resolution is adopting the final 2026 tax levy for North St. Paul Housing and Redevelopment Authority. >> Can I have a motion on that, please? >> So move. Council member Woods. >> Second. >> Second. Council member McKenzie. All those in favor say I. >> I. >> And the third resolution is adopting the final 2026 tax levy for the North St. Paul Economic Development Authority. >> Motion, please. >> I'll make a motion. >> Council member Schwar. >> Second. >> Second. Council member Woods. All those in favor say I. >> I. I. >> Um the next item is adopting the 2026 city non levy budgets. Um and these are internal service funds, enterprise funds, and special revenue funds. Um that have budgets. Um and there is a resolution that's uh with there. So the the enterprise funds proprietary funds in and internal service funds are in proprietary funds. You'll have the electric, the water, wastewater, surface water, solid waste, fiber optic, uh building maintenance, city mechanic, equipment, information technology and insurance. And then in the governmental funds or the special funds are the community center, the community event um budget and the fire relief um budget. And so there is a resolution to adopt those 2026 non-levy budgets. >> Thank you. May I have a motion, please? >> So move. Council member McKenzie. >> Second. >> Second. Council member Schwear. All those in favor say I. >> I. Thank you. And then the third item is to adopt the 2026 2035 capital improvement plan. Um all of the items that are in the column of 2026 are incorporated already in all of the budgets. Um there will be a discussion tonight on one of the items that is in there for 2026 and that's the the ladder truck. um all of the items in 2026 um have funding um and you've just kind of gone through and approved those. You do have options on the capital improvement plan that if there's an item that um you know you want to be brought back in front of the city council, we can certainly add that to the resolution. Um but um I think we've gone through the CIP and and and saw the changes. There were some changes uh towards the end, but I think the biggest one, which we'll hear a little bit later about, will be the ladder truck. >> Sounds good. Motion for that. >> And we need a motion to um approve the uh to adopt the 2026 to 2035 capital improvement plan. >> Yep. I have a motion, please. >> So move, council member McKenzie. >> Second. >> Second, Council Member Schwear. All those in favor say I. >> I. That ends my three items and wraps up another year from a budgetary standpoint. I do want to say with uh all the sincerity in the world, I thank the city council very much. Um it is a pleasure to serve you. Um and I look forward to another year and I wish you a merry Christmas and a happy new year. >> Appreciate it. You too. >> You too. >> Going to head down start on the 27 budget now. You know, it's kind of it's kind of funny. It's kind it's kind of funny. We we've got audits starting in January. We got our traditional January, February, and March U meetings with that. And then yes, in the meantime, when in March, once I get the numbers solid, then I start the budget and get them out to all the department. It's just kind of a secular cycle. >> Groundhog Day, the movie, >> it is. It just keeps popping back up. Yeah. Over and over again. >> Oh, appreciate it. Thanks. >> Thank you. >> All right. Next up is item D, adding application definition to the city code. We got community development director Ken to discuss. >> We're going to play musical. All right. >> We got a new face over there. >> Good. Oh, >> we're glad to have you. >> Thank you, mayor, members of the council. So, this item is brought before you in another effort to clean up and clarify some of our city code and processes. Specifically, we're proposing to add the definition of application to the definitions in our general provisions in our code. We surprisingly don't have one. Maybe there wasn't ever a need for one. Uh, and so again, I'll give Sarah full credit on this. She started taking this on because we had questions uh from especially one contractor or vendor who uh wants to or has been in the past submitting all their applications on paper form. and we've really pushed and before my time to have everybody submit things electronically and they continued to resist and so when reviewing the code to say if we could mandate it we didn't have strong enough language in the code to do so. So this accomplishes that in part because we now add a definition of uh application in the code and we uh again Sarah solicited advice from the League of Minnesota cities and our city attorney and in summary we can uh add the definition of application and with the wording that we have uh clarifies all applications must be made as specified by to the staff and that way we can mandate that they submit it electronically. The only uh option out of that is if for example somebody is unable to say with a disability or some kind of thing we would make accommodations for that. But uh we want to uh again add this language to the code. And so the proposed definition which is in your packet says and it's an ordinance an application is the formal process of an applicant submitting a filed and complete form furnished by the city and that's the key word to North St. Paul for authorization to conduct a specific activity. The form and all documentation are required as a pre prerequisite to the city considering the activity permit or license. And so it's our recommendation to add that to the code. And then therefore we can go ahead and uh require electronic submitts uh consistent with that wording and again unless there's a specific reason they can't. So that's our recommendation. There's an ordinance in your packet that would add that language to the code. >> That's all I got. >> Any questions at this time? >> Is there a fee when you do it? Submit uh through the computer system >> or is there an extra fee? >> There's the electronic filing fee. Yes. Okay, >> I just asked about a reasonable accommodation and if it's if a reasonable accommodation states in the code and it Jack was just informing me that it's >> you're good >> upon request. Yep. So, we're good. >> Good. Okay. All right. We need a vote on that. >> Yes. There's a an ordinance and so we'd like somebody to make a motion to adopt the ordinance. >> And get a motion, please. >> I'll make a motion. Council member Schwar. >> So move. >> McKenzie. >> Second. >> Second. You're so move. You're taking the mayor's job, huh? >> All those in favor say I. >> I. >> All right. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> I don't want that job. >> Up is second amendment agreement with read that again. Um, next up is adding the uh second amendment to the agreement with Rum River Consultants. Back to you, Ken. >> Thank you, Brian. Members of the council, and Mr. Mayor, we uh are presenting an amendment to the Rum River contract we have for our building inspection services. Uh what prompted this primarily are two things. They proposed revisions to their fees which were in the contract and we had now put those fees into the fee schedule rather than the contract. And secondly, the current contract didn't have a time limit on it or time frame. It was open-ended. It didn't say it would end in one year or three years or five years. So the proposed contract now has a five-year term with uh agree it can be extended mutually by both parties. So that's those are the two primary changes that we're proposing. So it cleans it up for both parties. Uh Rember has uh reviewed this and is ex they will accept it assuming city approves it. So we're recommending approval of the second amendment to the contract. >> Okay. Thank you. >> I've heard good things about Rum River as far as how we've been they've been working with the city. I've uh Is that what the overall has been? >> Yep. Work with Yep. We haven't I haven't heard anything out of the ordinary. Have you >> I've not heard any bad news. >> No. Which is >> same here. I've heard people that it's a little bit more streamlined and a little easier and very they get out there at a at a decent speed. So, >> good. Yep. >> I had a motion, please. So, >> move. So, move. Council member Woods. Second, Mackenzie. All those in favor say I. I. >> Thank you. getting the names right tonight. This is really >> slow down. I know. Or >> maybe I got speed up more. >> All right, so next up is the solid waste and recycling collection service agreement RFP. Um, as you know, we've been working with FA, that company through uh Ramsey County that helps out uh coming up with the RFP. Uh we have our contract is through tennis now. That goes through August 31st of 2026. So we're just getting the process going going out for bids from other companies. Um most everything is going to stay the same except for that we're looking at different options for the bulk pickup. Um, currently the contract uh says collection from the city now for solid waste and recycled pickup weekly Tuesday through Friday, having the collection of yard waste available as an optional service. Having bulky item curb pickups uh available for residents with a fee. Uh continue the recent added food scrap program. The city will continue to provide the primary customer service for taking telephone calls and billing for the services as part of the utility billing and to continue using the 35 65 and 95gallon collection carts and the hauler is will be responsible to oversee the maintenance and storage and delivery of those. So the new part is uh the contract will run from September 1st, 2026 through August 31st of 2031. five-year contract. Um contract would include three one-year extensions if uh both parties agreed. Um so the city is encouraging the responding contractors to include options and costs for the city to continue with the bulk waste pickup. Um just certain options that you might have. Um you know, do you do it monthly? Do you do it quarterly? And so they'll come back with different options. And even though that you hopefully will get bids from many of the different haulers, um if we find one that you like uh and approve, we can go back to the other haulers and say, "We'd like you to put a bid in on this option because that's what you guys liked." So, um deal with that once the RFP comes back. Um is there anything you'd like to add to that, Ken? >> Uh If if I may, yes, we uh Brian outlined it very well and we did have the city attorney review both the proposed RFP and the draft contract and all his incl comments are included in the documents. And what we're asking the council to do tonight is to approve the draft request for proposals uh as prepared and as in your packet. and and if it is approved, there's a motion for you to do so. Then we will release it tomorrow to the public to the uh internets to start soliciting the bids. And if I'll just take a minute, Brian, if you >> please don't mind. The whole process I'll put this is on the screen. This is in your packet. Uh assuming it's approved tonight, we publish it and send it out for requests. We the first or they are due back to staff February 13th. We start evaluating them middle of February to middle of March. We would do interviews if we need to with certain vendors that clarify things, talk about bulky waste if we need to. We complete our evaluations by staff by middle of April, April 21st. We'd bring it to the council with a recommendation for witch hauler. Then we start the final negotiations. Then we bring the final contract to the council in May. Uh hopefully that's executed and put in place by June 1st. They start the their business on September 1st. So, there's a lot of steps to go through before we get to the hauler. This is really step one of about 10, but this puts it out in the world saying we're looking for trash haulers and we're looking for their responses. So, that is what we're asking for tonight. >> Okay. >> And you said you have a is there a third party? Is it FA? That's >> FA. Yes. FA is a consultant that Ramsey County uses to help prepare these and it's at no cost to the city. Yeah. >> So they've been very helpful in putting all these documents together. >> So FA will collect all of that information and >> No, we get to >> Oh, we do. Okay. So it's still >> together. They will help us do the evaluations, but it's staff me will be taking them in and >> you get the glory of all that. >> Yes. Collecting them and all that, >> comparing, contrasting. >> Well, and but we have a team within the city and both the finance department and community development with Chris and myself. We'll review them. We'll score them. We'll rank them. hopefully come out with one or two that we think are the best. Bring that back to the council. >> Great. >> And um to be clear, those trash can are the cities right now that we have because one time we had new new trash hauler and they came and picked up cans and dropped off. So we're going to get new new haulers but the same cans just in case people like I still got the same one. >> That has not changed. >> Correct. And all right, I have a motion. If everybody has any Let's try that again. No questions. No more questions. I have a motion, please. >> I'd like to make that motion. >> All right. Thank you. >> To talk trash. >> All right. Council members. Who's else going to talk trash? >> Second. >> Second. Norby. All those in favor say I. >> I. I. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. Item G is authorizing purchase of an E1 Metro 100 foot Quinton ladder truck. We have uh Fire Chief Minger here. >> Hello. Aren't you going to come stand by? I just had to get the look. >> No show and tell. You didn't bring one up. >> Yeah. >> Hello, Mayor, council members. Uh, thanks for having me here. Um, in the packet submitted, uh, information regarding the E1 Metro 100 quit, uh, along with me here this evening, I have our assistant chief Jordan Wardell and Assistant Chief Ethan Johnson. Uh, both of whom were on the, uh, truck committee with other members as well. Um, they're here and support and potentially help ask answer any questions as well. So beyond the packet that and information that I had submitted, obviously I'm here before you to answer any questions that you may have, but I also have um additional information that I'd like to um add uh upon that. So I'm going to get started unless you have question. Go on. >> Right ahead. Thank you. Um as as stated obviously our current ladder truck is over 42 years old and well past its useful life. Uh current NFPA recommendations uh a frontline truck um should be replaced after 15 years and removed from service after 25. Um our community obviously we are a smaller community with uh three and a half square miles. uh we don't get as much road miles, but uh a lot of the use on our trucks, all of our trucks are really when they're on scene for hours and hours and and running and idling and running the pump at uh high high speeds as well or high RPMs is what I meant to say. Um our city has changed a lot since the first time we got our first ladder truck and or the platform truck in 1982. Um at that time the primary reason for that was uh for Franklin Park apartments with the three to fourstory buildings and now as we have added in recent years um many more three to four story buildings. Uh the need for a ladder truck uh continues. Um, a lot of these areas as well have smaller roads and smaller uh parking areas to get a larger truck in. So really I I want I can even remember when the mayor first get got his his uh position as mayor and came over and talked to me and one of the first conversations we have was about our equipment and the cost of it and how it would affect our taxpayers. And I would even say before that for me knowing that the replacement of a truck of what we currently have was going to be an expensive uh task. So, taking this opportunity at this time um to really look at how we provide service to the community and if things could change and um not to just look at, hey, we have this truck right now and we need to replace it as is. And um that was not the route we went. Uh we looked at many different vendors. Uh we talked to many different people. I've had many conversations with surrounding communities on what they have and how we provide service to one another. Um, and really the determination of coming to this uh specific truck um made real good sense and I'll kind of go through that a little bit more. Uh again, the replacement of our current truck platform and platform means it has a bucket on the end to carry the people in. Um that specific truck, the brand, the Sutfen would be 2.4 to $2.5 million. I knew that that was not going to be a feasible task for for us. So, we talked about how can we adjust our operations to uh still be able to work within the scope of having a ladder truck without a platform and really um talked about a change in operations policies and potential procedures and how we would be able to respond and what differences we would have to do and what have other departments done as well. A good term that I've heard recently was the term called right sizing and really looking at it uh differently. Um can I take a single axle truck with a 100 foot ladder and waterway work? And the answer was yes. Um, we compared it to a large extension ladder that you have on the side of your house that takes a couple people to carry versus a um little giant that could take one that can do the same job. I like that analogy. Uh, department staffing and response has changed over the years. Previously, structure fires, we would look to have as many people as we could get on the truck, six to seven people. Um, with the change in how departments operate and with auto aid, especially during the daytime, knowing that we have staff here in the station, our goal is to get out as quickly as possible and utilize the incoming staff that we have with auto auto aid as well. Our ladder truck is a primary response vehicle. It's a frontline vehicle. puts the second truck out on all of our um structure fires, alarms, and other types of calls as well. Uh this type of ladder truck uh does not need a large crew like our current ladder truck needs to operate. It could be done with a minimum of three people. Um and along with like I said the auto aid agencies uh that we have there really is no other truck like it in the immediate area. Our neighboring departments have um much larger uh trucks than than what we are looking at. A big part of what I was looking at as well was beyond um today, tomorrow, um more into the future, beyond potentially 5, 10, 15, 20 years. What does that look like knowing that we are having our trucks for more than 20 years? I'm not going to be here for all of that time. and the next person in line, I want to be able to set them up for success as well. So, I looked at it as well as um there's some things that could be added or removed from the truck, but um for us, it's going to be the second out truck, but potentially maybe the next person in charge wants it to be the first out truck. So making sure that it has those items on it if those changes were to be made at that time. So trying to set it up for success in the future as well. Um recently I've been meeting with uh the insurance service office ISO as it relates to our city's rating um and have learned a few things. uh they uh recommend or require that our city has uh two engines and a ladder. Now, removing a ladder completely um does uh what they call lose points. Uh they look at the the fire department as a whole. Um they look at our water system, how it's supplied. They look at how we respond to structure fires, whether they're residential or commercial, and how it affects that. So, um, if we were to not have that, obviously it's going to, uh, affect the ISO rating. Um, going from a platform to a ladder with a 100 foot ladder, um, doesn't change the the points at all. Uh, as well, like I said, we had a truck committee as as well. Um, that uh was part of the decision-m um part of that was obviously our officers here and other officers, engineers, and firefighters uh to help make and determine this uh decision. And we've been very open with the department um discussing this and talking about our change. And I would like to say I believe we have a full buy in by everybody and understanding that that um and I think part of that too is obviously because the majority of our members are um you know live in the city and understand uh keeping a budget in check if if you will um to make the the most of our our money but still be able to provide provide a product that's going to help us as well. In the last five years, um the costs for um service and repair on the truck um has it has been quite a bit is uh well over $46,000 in the last five years, averaging just over $9,000 each year. Um let me see. Is that the cost for the turret itself or is that for the engine part of it or you got you got injectors going out or things like that? >> So with the the ladder itself a lot of moving parts. So that those costs could be incurred from the pump itself. >> Sure. >> Um we >> I mean I was here when that truck was built back in ' 82, you know. Yeah. >> I've seen the truck when it was on my street putting out that fire. the problem that we've been having over and over again um as I I've reviewed the um invoices for repairs. Uh so for the last 5 years or more, we've been having problems with the controls in the bucket that operate the up down the left right and the extend. And it's just due to the nature of it it it being that old and there's no uh affordable solution to it. So, we've been having problems um twice within 2025 where we had to have that repaired. Um the last time in the fall, the pump did not the the pump did not pass. >> I saw it sitting out here getting repaired that afternoon out in the parking lot. >> Yep. It did not pass and it had to go into the shop uh for repair as well. So, um, that's kind of my in addition to what is already in the packet. Um, do you have anything else you guys would like to add? Otherwise, I'll >> Yeah, you can do it, Jordan. >> Mayor, members of the city council, thank you for having us tonight. Um, do I need to stand? >> No, you're good. Uh I would just like to echo I think uh Chief Minger throughout this entire process um as we've been evaluating multiple different apparatuses really reinforced fiscal responsibilities. We've been looking at all these different apparatus and that's something I really admire about Chief Melinger and um both his push and determination to get the right pieces of equipment and apparatus for our city to protect our citizens but also as he alluded to maintaining that fiscal responsibility and recognizing the tax burden that places on the citizens of the city as well as I mean we all live in the city as well so we understand and recognize that. Um, one thing I would just like to add is the modern fire envir environment presents a lot of unique challenges. Um, and he kind of as he alluded to, some of our neighboring communities have enhanced their fleet, purchased new apparatus. Um, and the truck that we currently have doesn't necessarily provide us that opportunity to respond to the fire dynamics that were called to address, especially with the multifamily um, occupancies that are being built in downtown North St. Paul. um if we have really have a fire anything above the first floor, we're going to be looking to a piece of equipment like this to really make a impact on the on the fire uh potential rescues and most importantly an elevated waterway. So that's all I have. Thank you. >> Thank you, Jordan. >> Thank you. >> Questions? >> Yeah, if you don't mind, I have one and this probably is a two-part one for you and one for Jack. Yeah. >> Um, how many uh floor building do you feel this can safely um handle? I don't know if handle is the right word, but but um safely fight a fire on. And then as we grow as a city, if someone puts forth an application that is a higher floor than what number they give here, is that okay for us to deny that permit based on us not having or would we be forced to get different equipment later on? I can I I'll I'll start and kind of go like I said I've had uh conversations with the ISO uh gentlemen um we've had hours and hours together reviewing um many documents and our training files and such. So the conversation of minimally because we have a three story and above um requires us to have a ladder. Um there's no doubt that if the potential was there to go five, six or seven uh stories, which there are communities around us that have those apartment buildings that are are going that route. Um there are other fire protection uh items that can be placed inside the building that can help that. There's not much beyond um a 100 foot um type of ladder. Some go to 110 um but that's fairly typical of what most uh departments have and carry whether it's a platform or a ladder type truck. So I hopefully that answers that question. Um, but I would have to I'll not to take words out of um the city attorney's mouth, but going by my conversations with the ISO officer, we understand that depending on when we look at building an apartment building, making sure that there are what we call fire roads or fire lanes around it, that there's a protection system. Um, we know if as you go higher four, five, six, seven, you're not going to be able to to reach everything with that. >> Um, in terms of the applications, I mean, that's going to depend on what kind of an application comes in. In general, the existing zoning districts already have uh maximum height allowances within the code. Um for most things that is going to be three stories. I think for the MU3 we go as high as potentially five stories. But as of right now we would have to change the code to allow anything higher than that. And so if we were to get an application for a building that fire service could not, you know, service, um, presumably we would just deny the application as not meeting the current code and then we would deny any application to change the code because it would require additional firefighting resources. >> Okay. Thank you. Would you ever consider holding on to your ladder truck as just an absolute backup >> there? Um, >> once even once you get your new rig >> due the fact due to the fact that it would be uh help in case you couldn't get above some type of a fire. There's departments that do have reserve vehicles and you do get points added back in to ISO as well for having reserved vehicles. But no, that was not necessarily uh my my thought behind it just because of the added cost and ongoing maintenance. It >> I might think differently about it if it wasn't quite so old. >> Yeah. But because of it, um, there are, like I said, it it has we have gotten the useful life out of it. >> And currently the ladder on that truck, we haven't climbed it in 15 years because the requirements now require a minimum of 18 in on each side. Um, >> okay. >> This one just basically has a handle on the on there are no sides to it. So we have not >> climbed that for years and years just due to safety. So >> because it's been retrofitted once and the high maintenance on it thus far, I would not want to keep it as a reserve. >> Maybe we can offer it to former council member Kim Tim Cole. He could add it to his fleet with his engine. >> Well, hopefully he's listening. >> Yeah, he might be interested in a ladder truck. >> Um the the ISO the ISO requirements. Um I'm trying to get the recommend the recommended and required because as you were discussing, >> are we as a city required to have a ladder truck? It >> it >> or is it highly recommended? >> It's highly recommended. So what ends up happening is um within the fire service, we kind of look at it as we're being uh supported by or guided by um three areas, ISO, NFPA, and obviously our own city um ordinances, determinations, budget, and things like that. ISO is going to give our city a rating that's going to affect all of our um homeowners and our business owners. If that rating the you have a rating of 1 to 10. Currently, we're at a three. I want to stay at a three right now. Okay. It's not likely that we would go to a two or one. It's very difficult to get there. Um, most full-time fire departments have a difficult time getting to it, too. So, we have a great rating right now. Um, if we were to drop a a rating, that basically rating goes out to those other insurance companies that homeowners, business owners look at, and it's a rating that the insurance company goes, well, this fire department is doing a good job in their fire response. Mhm. >> So, how they determine take that information and adjust >> determine our ratings. >> Correct. >> How much it's going to cost. >> Excellent. >> And each insurance company may do it a little bit differently, but the rating remains the same for all of them. >> Okay. >> Hopefully that >> complete clarity with that one. Thank you. >> Also, you said right sizing. Is there spots now around that uh the the size truck we have now that can't get to that the new one would be able to do? >> Yeah. So, surprisingly as we were um going through this and and realizing one of them that we knew right off the the top was Silus Point Apartments. Um getting into that parking area. There's three uh apartment buildings with garages in there and it's very tough to get our current engines in there and our our current ladder truck um will not make it around any corner and get to to into position where we would need it. So um this single axle would be beneficial. Um the colleges of North St. Paul another small road type facility um where we would have a difficult time. The new gateway town homes, three stories, mult multi- >> levels, multi-pull units, smaller, narrower streets. Um, >> Crestwood Drive, >> Crestwood Drive, town homes. >> Yeah. >> So, that opens up a whole another area that we haven't had before. >> Park on the street and go up over the top then. Is that what you would generally do? >> If you >> you try to get as close as you can to be able to do it. Um, but I can guarantee you today if something were to happen in some of these places, we might not be able to necess necessarily reach it for the difficulty of being able to um to get in there. >> Okay. I've noticed White Bear's got do they have a E1 also? >> They have a shorter wheelbase truck. >> Yes, it is a Pierce. >> Pierce. >> Yep. And that ladder truck is based out of their north station in downtown White Bear Lake um by their city hall. >> Right. >> Yeah, >> I've seen that one around. >> Yep. >> It's a nice little rig. >> It's very similar. >> So, right now with the old with the truck we have now, the outriggers that go out distance wise, >> and this is another piece of it. Um they call it under slung uh where the outriggers run from one inside or outside frame across underneath. The spread of the outriggers is a total of 11 ft. So basically, if you can open the doors, you have room to put down the outriggers and set up this truck where our current ladder truck um takes a a minimum of 15 to 18 ft depending on because the outriggers go straight out from just from the side. >> Okay. >> Um and it don't get me wrong, it's it's a great truck, but it requires a lot more space um to to operate. What's your build time on this new one? >> Uh, 24 months. So, uh, two years. >> Yeah, two years. Um, and that's that's a that's a good build time in this time frame. I do know, uh, the larger platform tucks are over four years. >> Now, is there going to be a place for Ethan to ride in the front then, or are they going to be able to mount him somewhere? >> I don't know if we'll let Ethan ride in the front anymore. And there's is there space for more volunteers on the fire department? >> Yes. >> Double checking. >> Yes. >> For those watching. >> Yes, we have room. >> Okay. >> Yeah. So, >> I mean, no, sorry. >> With the lead time and we got 24 months. So, I mean, right now, we're just hoping that everything stays together as far as where we're at right now. So, if we were to um approve this and sign the contract, we're going to be able to lock in the price as it is and lock in that time frame as well. Um, >> where are they built at? >> They're out of Florida, somewhere in northern Florida. >> Ocala. Yeah. I appreciate the research that you did on this um and your team. I think that with the two newer facilities we have downtown and the operating of our current the operation of our current um ladder truck. I'm I would be lying to you if I said I wasn't for it right away because it's it's expensive. But I also recognize that the correct me if I'm wrong maybe 75% of the team is a North St. Paul resident um andor they live just within the border. So, um I I personally think that it would be to our residents advantage to have this especially with two new complexes down downtown and I would really hate to see something occur and we don't have we we don't have the time to get to it. >> No, I I appreciate that. Um, and that's the one thing I wanted to express among you and the um, community is that there was a lot of thought and research and conversations behind this. It wasn't just, hey, let's replace the ladder truck and and move forward. I'm not up here saying we need this because it's what we have. It it there were other factors that went into it as well. And the three of us have sleepless nights sometime cuz we want to make sure that our response is is good. And I know that this type of of truck will be something that our members will be able to operate and set up and utilize as as well. That was a big part of it. Bigger truck um requires a lot more experience to operate and drive. You probably know that, Dave, right? Um, so that was a factor as as well, but um, making sure that we have the right piece of equipment for our department was what it mainly came down to. >> Got one more question. All right. Being it built in Florida, who is going to be able to do a service call on it and where are they going to have it repaired and and uh because are there local dealers that will repair a eun? >> Great question. So talking with the salesman up in uh Duth and also when we uh went out and looked at a similar truck at Egan Fire Department while the team was looking at the truck with the firefighters and the officers I was talking to the chief officers about those types of things on service and maintenance. Uh E1 has a uh service uh company that's in Ham Lake. Um and I was actually able to meet and and talk with them. um came highly recommended from the other chief officers that have >> So they do have a machine uh >> service center out this way. Oh, that's nice. Okay. >> So once it's up here, >> it's only 20 25 miles up. So >> uh deal with it. Yeah. >> Yeah. Well, that's good to know. >> Good question. >> I'm just glad we're opening up to more. I mean, before we couldn't get to certain places. Now we're we're able to get better service and be able to get to >> No, I think think about the alleyways on the avenues and north, you know, >> not to say that the big one couldn't get down there, but this one will definitely be able to operate a lot easier um and function within that area as well. My my concern is also we the ISO that we are compliant with our residents that they all get the same treatment and our fire department is up to the the codes of what our residents need and that's pretty important to everybody. >> Yeah, >> agreed. >> Any more questions down the line here? >> Jason, I can see that's his usual thought. Yeah, I have one. Um, and and this has less to do with you and more to do with Jack. Um, >> well, >> that's good. We got to pay him anyway. >> Coming, Jack. >> No matter what, we pay him. >> Just because of something that recently happened in Minnesota um on something like this, how much is required down? And if this company happens to go bankrupt, are we as protected as we can be? >> That's a great question. >> Yeah. I guess >> for a two-year lead. Yeah. No, >> I mean it's a good question. Um it's hard to um hard to predict the future. Uh I would say so I mean it's um you know we're we're paying we're putting the money down and they're promising to give us a truck and if they don't do that legally they have to give us the money back. There's always the risk of what happens if they don't have it. I know. I'm sure there's payment schedules. >> So, actually for this truck, we don't have to put any money down. >> Awesome. >> There you go. >> 90% is due upon completion. >> The other 10% is due when we take delivery of it. >> They do have a third option. Um, and I I've talked to Dan about this, but this is a a later conversation, but just as FYI, if we did put a down payment of whatever we wanted on it, um, before uh December 31st, 2025, it would earn 5%. After that in 2026, it would earn four and a half%. And then that interest earned can be used for um tools and equipment off the truck. That would potentially come off the top of the price that we have here. We don't know if we're doing that. We haven't talked about that. We need to do step one before we further there. But there is no down payment required. >> Awesome. Thank you for that. >> And I also just would add, I mean, E1 is a they're a pretty big deal manufacturer. They've been doing this since, I think, the 70s. You know, the reason the lead time is so long is because they have so many orders. I I don't know that we have a ton of worry about them going under. >> They're they got building stuff going up the east coast constantly. You know, it's what the bread and butter is. >> Oh, good. Any other questions? If I may speak, your decision really does need to be made tonight. >> Come on up and talk before nobody can hear at home. Thank you. >> Actually, your decision needs to be made tonight if you want to take advantage of the 5% because city council will need to adjust the equipment budget to be able to pay if you wanted to do a down payment >> because it would need to be paid by December 31st of 2025. They also have another option that they would give a 4 and a half% interest if you were to do it next year. Um and what I had shared with uh Chief Melinger is that if you were to look out today and you were to look at investments for two years in which government can invest into CDs are going at in a two years is about a 3.8%. um you're looking at uh probably about a 36 on treasuries and you're looking at municipalities as about a 3.6. So I can't even get you 4% on, you know, on on on the money. But again, just as council member Nordby had brought up, there is always a risk associated with with that a down payment. But then you've also heard that this is a very reputable company. So, if you were if you were to go that way, we would need to have a friendly amendment to the proposed resolution where you would be authorizing the city to prepay some dollar amount in December of 2025 to take advantage of the 5% credit offered by E1. And you'd also have to authorize the city to increase the 2025 equipment budget by whatever that amount is and decrease the 2026 budget by that amount equipment budget. So those would have to be considered. I know it's throwing it at the 11th hour. Um you just brought this to my attention late yesterday afternoon that there was an option for for city to consider, you know, to consider that. >> What is your thoughts? What do you like to see? Again, it it's, you know, >> I mean, as as a guy who holds on to the checkbook. >> Well, well, again, I I mean, you know, they're a very reputable company. I wouldn't pay the whole thing down. I would pay a portion of it. >> Um, you get that as a credit off of your purchase of the um um you know, >> equipment that need on the ladder or the truck, >> right? So, it's really if you want to take that risk, where are you comfortable with um to be able to get that um you know, interest component to it. Uh you know, from a dollar, you know, from a dollar standpoint, what are we talking about? We're, you know, we're talking, you know, you're gaining, you know, you know, potentially a you know, a little over a percent of interest. Is that worth that risk? That's kind of, you know, your kind of look. I >> I looked a little bit at E1 as a company and they seem to be pretty solid, but again, there there's always risk associated with any of those types of moves. >> So, is there money to move around to put down? >> Yes, the equipment fund does have the the funds to do that, and that's one of the positive things what the city council has been moving in the in the past years is to be able to put ourselves into this position. And that's what we did with the um the Motorola Motorola order for the police was being able to get them to discount their price at over 4% rate that um if we were to pay it, you know, at once instead of amort, you know, amortization over the 5-year period. Again, that cash having cash is is is allowing the city council to have more flexibility um you know, as we move forward. So that's why this option is actually something that the city could seriously consider. Again, it's the risk that you're associated with it, you know, um for >> what do you have it invested in right now? What's your percent that you're getting with the money for that we have in that fund? >> Um we're probably averaging overall because I've got it spread over multi, you know, multiple years, you know, we're probably averaging overall probably about a 3.9%. And you've seen the the Fed has made, you know, cuts um interest rate cuts. They just made one here in December. Um so that'll start to to impact interest rates um on a downward side to it. Um even though they're looking at in 2026 not as many cuts at this, you know, at this point in time, but that's a that's a shoot. Um because you have strong leadership in the the White House that's looking for more and more cuts. the more cuts that there are, that means that, you know, your interest rates are going to go down. Um, so this is something that you would lock in um at that 5%. It my understanding is it's not variable on anything. It's locked in at the at the 5%. So, it gives you an option to to look at that. Um, and I just wanted to to be able to give you all of the information for you to make a decision. Um, but it would have to be made tonight to to to take advantage of the 5%. You do have time if you want to look at, you know, potentially locking in at the four and a half percent because that that I think was offered >> for 26. Okay. >> Dan, can you help me with my back on the napkin math just so we're all talking about the same thing. So, if we put down 1% for down payment, so 177,500 um over the two years, that's going to get him about 13,000 in free tools of upgrade. Is that >> Well, it's actually it's actually going to be a credit that can come right off of the price, right? >> Yeah. So, so at 1% that'll get us 13,000 off. That's 10%. >> Is Yeah. What what were you looking at for the amount that you were actually looking at? >> 177,000 >> would be 10%. >> No, it Yeah. >> Yeah. >> No, you're only 1% of that's only 1,700. >> Yeah. No, I said 1%. He corrected me wrong. 10% is what I was thinking. It's 177,000. >> Yeah. So if we did 10% I guess what is feasible is you know 10 20 I mean obviously we don't want to do a 100%. >> Well but what I'm saying is that if you do a 10% which is $177,000 is the incremental of what I'm I'm going to say the 5% versus a 4% is a 1% which is the delta from what we potentially could invest ourselves >> versus what they're offering. I don't look at it from the full amount of >> Sure. >> Right now you're at four almost four. This is one thing over. >> Now is yours 3.9. Is yours >> is your variable? Is that locked in? You're going to go up and down because this is locked in for 24 months. >> Yeah. What we have invested is locked in. But again, >> 3.9 will stay put. >> Going all the way through for five and a half years. So >> Okay. So yeah. So we're we're locked in at the 3.9 too. Also, I should say not two. So right now you're at about 3.9. So we're locked in as long as we've been locked in at the five would be two >> year. >> Correct. >> Yeah. >> So that's about a little over percent for what's that 17? >> Yeah. >> When you look at it that way, >> but but I wanted to make sure that you had full disclosure that all in front of you. >> Um you know, and especially when when Chief Melinger talked about that's something we can decide later on. You can't on the the 5%. You could on the 4 and a half%. That's >> so that 1% over that two is like 1,700 then, right? Because that was the original one you're talking about. So that's only $1,700 difference pretty much. >> Yeah. For for a 10%. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So to me, >> I mean, if you stay at the 3.9 where we're at now and we lock it at five, that's still about the same 1%. So about 1,700 over that time frame. >> So to me, if you're asking me would I do that, I wouldn't. >> Yep. Thank you. >> For that delta piece. >> Yep. I'd have to explain it makes sense. make the decision if you're all, you know, in in favor of >> of of approving this that we do move forward here now tonight. Correct. That locks in um at the first of the year there's a as we've mentioned before there's a 4 and a.5% increase in the cost of this which would amount to about $76,000. So we do want to lock into it sooner than later if city council is in in agreement with this is the right direction for the city. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's the reason why, you know, we run the way we do. We can ask questions. We come up here and just get it done and, you know, not formalities. Let's let's talk it out and see what's best. >> So, >> do you plan on do you plan on adding additional stuff to the truck? Is that when we purchase it? Is it basic? Then you >> So within the the quote from E1, >> the 1.75 uh includes um equipment and uh a shelving allowance to adjust things for the equipment. And I added into our CIP an extra $25,000 for uh the equipment that we're going to have to purchase as well. >> Perfect. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Thank you for thinking ahead. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Okay. As far as the are we good with without the friendly amendment for are we good just to leave it in our >> count for the 4%. >> Yeah. >> So we'll just go forward with what we have on here which is authorizing the the phase first phase of the layer of the ladder truck. >> Correct. >> Yes. >> All right. Can I get a motion for that? >> So moved. >> So moved. Council member Woods. >> Second. >> Second. Council member Schwear. All those in favor say I. >> I. >> I. >> Thank you all and for all the hard work. We >> Thank you, Chief. >> Appreciate what you guys do. >> Yeah. >> Appreciate all the thought you put in to this and, you know, deciding on the right truck for our city. >> Thank you. We appreciate it. >> Perfect. Thank you, >> Jordan and Ethan. Thank you. >> Yeah. Thank you as well. Good to see you all. >> Didn't mean to exclude you guys. >> Yeah. >> All right. Thank you very much. that much money for that little gain just doesn't >> that's why it's good to talk it out because at the beginning I was like waiting like decide now. >> Yep. >> You ready for your >> little updates? >> I am. So we had a staff meeting today. Um updates from their departments. Uh >> electric uh had their new apprentice start yesterday. So today was his second day. So he already came with experience coming from another municipal. So, he's going to work out well. Um, out of all the applicants, they he stuck out pretty good. So, uh, they're wrapping up their inventory count, uh, and getting ready for the audit, and they'll be here mid January to go over the audit with them. Um, they're also prepping for getting the electric over for the student built house, so it's not dealing with three or four feet of frost when they're ready for it. And they're also doing some planning on some upgrades in the substation pier for 2026. Um community development as always is working on just different ordinance updates. Uh so they'll be coming forward. Um they're also working on a year and review preparation that staff can share. Um communications. Uh Ava's work uh working on the new resident guide that we had started a while back. she's picking that back up and uh pulling that together. Um also doing the final newsletter for this year that'll go out tomorrow. Otherwise, she's going to be taking a couple weeks off and heading home for the holidays. So, good for her. >> Yeah, good for her. >> And of course, finance is uh getting ready for the auditors at this point, wrapping up the budget now and uh starting the process all over again. Uh, police had active shooter training today at the U of M. Assuming that went well. >> Good. And, uh, they've been doing a good job um, keeping our streets clear for the snow removal out there. So, appreciate that. Um, public works has been they're working on a potential grant for uh, the year 2020. Is it 26th or 27 for your uh next ash grant? Asht tree removal grant. >> Yeah, we're looking for >> still looking into it. Um getting the skating rinks ready to go. Uh as long as the weather cooperates and stays cold, they can have that ready for the holidays here. Um and he told you about the chlorination. They did have the test that passed last week. They did take another test what yesterday and they're waiting for the results on that. Um but still probably bringing that out into next year for uh keeping the chlorination going and uh fire as he was saying uh is working with the so ISO um for our insurance rating and uh they have training tomorrow with uh their Mayday operations and >> as soon as he gets the money he heads out. You notice that? >> Yeah. Yeah, knows how it works. That's all I got for you. I >> mean, it's true. >> All right. Thank you very much. Reports from commissions and committees. >> Parks and Recreation is not having a meeting this year this month. Uh the next one will be January 28th, 6:30 in council chambers. >> Thank you very much. Uh ADA won't meet until March. >> All right. We did have a meeting. >> Oh god. That's right. We did, didn't we? Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, we did have our December meeting. We went over the >> That was Andrew Nat's last >> Yep. Andrew Nats. Yep. And we went over the budgets. Um what we went through for our 25 26 what we did in 25 and 26. And then uh we're able to go through that and do some more as far as um changing some of the stuff for the grants um for the facade, lowering it down to 5,000. Right. >> And doing um anything else to 5,000. So that'll be 2500. 2500. >> Currently, it's at 10,000 that you'd have to spend before you were be allowed for a 50% um reimbursement. Um but another thing we threw out there is do we want to broaden the program? You know, working with uh whether it's mechanicals of the building or what have you. So, we'll discuss that the next meeting. >> Try and open that up a little bit more. So, we had a good meeting. >> You sir, >> um arts and culture. Uh we had an interview last week or last just after our last meeting uh for a new member and she got approved tonight. So >> she's perfect. >> Welcome Ashley. Perfect. >> Yep. The name like perfect. That was fun. >> Uh the planning commission I'm pleased to announce and I want to thank you all for uh confirming that Patrick Police will continue to be the chair tonight. We all voted on that and the normally scheduled meeting would be January 1st which is not going to happen. So, the next meeting of the planning commission will be January 8th. >> Oh, good. Good. Thank you very much. Any general business? >> I attended Holiday Hop. It was quite the event. It was very festive. Um, and the weather was wonderful. So, thanks to the business association for putting that on. It was >> well attended. >> Yes, it was. I was unable to make it and I'll try to Oh, at the next one on the coffee with the council. >> Yep. We're looking at setting up um Ava's looking at trying to set up a time in January for all of us to get together. So, >> um the mayor and I attended uh the Holly Jolly night um out at Casey Lake Park and it was a good time for all. uh very cold but had a huge bonfire with the help of the fire department and uh popcorn, movies, hot chocolate. It was a blast for everybody and Santa was there. >> Yeah, if we would have built a fire that big, we'd all have tickets. >> Um I just want to thank all the residents. Um the Christmas tree, the North St. Paul Christmas tree project um was a resounding success with the amount of stuff that was donated. So, just thank thank you all um for coming together and helping a great cause. >> Well, thank you. I was trying to remember if if there's anything else. I think we got it covered, >> Brian. >> Just wishing everybody a happy, healthy, and safe holidays. >> There we go. >> Yes. Merry Christmas to all. >> Merry Christmas. Happy Hanukkah. >> Yep. Yep. And thanks to uh >> Ava for what great job she does getting this stuff in this this is the month she's been doing a lot. So great appreciation for that and thanks everybody and >> anything nothing else. I'll ask for adjournment. >> So moved. >> So moved. Council member Schwear. >> Second. >> Second. Council member McKenzie. All those in favor say I. I. I. >> Thank you all. Our next meeting is January 6. January.