[Music] foreign [Music] [Music] good morning I would like to call the planning and the economy committee special meeting to order I would like to welcome the following members who are present in the council chambers council members say and wire I understand council member Okimoto will be coming in shortly and we are also expecting remotely by video conference committee Vice chair Cordero pursuant to Hawaii revised Statute section 92.3.7 this meeting will be conducted as a remote meeting by interactive conference technology with the following procedures in effect for the meeting members of the public will be allowed to provide oral testimony remotely or in person in the council chamber on all items on the agenda when each item is taken up all persons who register to testify in person will be called upon first followed by those who register to testify remotely persons who have not registered will be given an opportunity to testify following the registered testifiers for those standing by remotely utilize the zoom raise hand feature to indicate your desire to speak for those joining us by telephone only please press star 9 to indicate your desire to speak before testifying each person shall State their full name and will be limited to a one minute presentation on each item HRS section 92.3.7 requires all votes at a remote meeting to be conducted by a roll call and less unanimous our first call for objections and if there are any I will call for a roll call vote for those council members participating from outside of the council chamber under HRS section 92.3.7 the meeting will automatically reach us if we lose audio visual contact with you and cannot reconvene until we re-establish contact therefore please announce beforehand if you will be voluntarily signing out of the meeting written testimonies including the testifiers address email address and phone number will be available to the public as described in the posted agenda as a courtesy please turn off all cell phones moving to agenda item number one for Action resolution 23-121 confirms the nomination of Catherine a tatchner to serve as the Director of Land Management of the City and County of Honolulu with the nominally nominee like to say a few words good morning chair good morning council members thank you for thank you for the time and for the consideration uh cat taskner I'm grateful to the mayor for the appointment and I'm happy to answer any questions you may have about the goals and responsibilities of this role thank you for your consideration how about I start off with the just the first question and then I'll I'll we'll rotate uh can you explain what your priorities are as the department of land and manage Department of Land Management director yes so the department of Land Management is the newest City department and as such I think one of the priorities that I have as director is to establish a good foundation we don't have policies and procedures standard forms and so I really want to build that so that going into the future dlm can be a lot stronger other priorities include driving execution on affordable housing Transit oriented development and other City priorities thank you I wanted to welcome council member Okimoto as well as council member dos Santos Tam members any questions uh council member wire I'm all the chair and Mahalo what's his credit director um wanted to say appreciate your service and I think your resume speaks um for its self um I was curious do you see any opportunities I'm giving your background to do more interaction with the law school in terms of encouraging like either JD Advantage jobs or trying to pull more practicing attorneys into the city yes 100 and I'm actually very happy to announce that we recently hired the city's second dedicated clean water and natural lands program manager a recent Richardson grad a lot of the work that we do is negotiating you know purchase and sale agreements and other legal documents so I agree having that expertise in-house helps so um we've had a couple Richardson volunteers who have gotten their gotten their externship credits but certainly on a prospective basis would love to see more of that that's awesome all for that Mahalo chair councilman thank you very much Madam chair congratulations Miss tashner the question I have is that two years ago when we started off on our journey uh the five members of the council who were freshmen and as we went along yes your department is the youngest Department in the overall cabinet the only concern I have today what can we do to support you and your department in the conversion of these third-party hire what you no I don't call it a third party what you call Professional contracts that you like I would like to see them be converted from these you know professional contracts to a civil service position so that there is that stability and preservation of the knowledge that they have accumulated yes that hello okay so hello Okay cool so yeah this kind of goes to setting up a good foundation for the Department of Land Management although we've been around for about five or six years only one of the intended three divisions were ever set up and so as we one of the goals is to set the foundation and so we're going through a reorg right now and we're hoping to initiate Union consultation so that we can build at least the second leg um and pick up staff on a civil service basis versus a you know personal service contract basis which is temporal Madam chair my follow-up just said I wanted to say for the record that uh I think for us as council members I apologize for not the not in support of the creation of the new Department based on the premise that there wasn't any funding at the beginning of this creation of this department it is the council members here who have supported the department and seeing that it follows through one final thought is that I hope by the end of this year Madam chair if there's an opportunity that we could have a discussion on all status of our City and County Properties that they have management over and the reason why I say this I don't want dlm to be like hcda you heard that representative marayoshi they're not taking care of all of these buildings that a city has approved the maintenance and the operations and that's a concern that we should be discussing also it's great that we acquire a property but can director find the how would you say the operations manager property managers for each of our properties that we have in existence today because it was brought up two years ago about even the parking structures of the of the uh apartments in Chinatown see and this is a concern I have as far as the added pressures that you will be putting on the department so I just bring this up for the record that I'm hoping that hcda listens because you know I don't want dlm to be in that same predicament yeah okay your point is well taken I think what we might do and we'll have further discussions um with the nominee uh after confirmation that uh we bifurcate it because there's actually a lot of properties that are not in your inventory right now and we'd like them to be in your inventory and chair Waters as you know has identified all of the City properties uh um by District so if any member does not have that list please call the chair's office and he can provide that for you uh it takes experts to know the uh potential viability for any type of project especially affordable housing but it's there and so what we will probably work with you on what you currently manage and what you potentially could manage because I know that we are working on the uh they have identified a property in Kailua and I'm going out to a night vision in the near future so it's not in the inventory now so your point is well taken um council member dos Santos Tam or I'm sorry Okimoto questions thank you chair Aloha deputy director I had a question and I think we did discuss this in my office but if you could just for the record I wanted and I thank you for giving your what you say your priorities will be I wanted to get your viewpoint on um the Department's I guess responsibility with the responsibilities I see is acquiring of properties and and um buildings but what is your viewpoint on the department managing such properties I kind of wanted to hear what your thoughts were on that not just acquiring but after the buildings are required what do you think your the Department's responsibility should be in managing these properties that's a good question so the department of Land Management Charter function is to protect develop and manage City role property interests we have an asset management division which oversees about 1500 affordable housing units so we do some direct management what I'd like to see our department do more of is enter into public-private Partnerships where you know if we acquire the land we can partner with a private developer to develop it I think that would probably be it's just another tool to add to the Arsenal as we look at you know how can we best utilize city land thank you thank you chair council member dos Santos Tam did you have any questions thank you okay my next set of questions includes just the status of your reorganization can you provide us an update on on the status yes so as I mentioned dlm was intended to have three branches we currently have one the reorg to create Branch two the asset Development Division we're almost done we've drafted about 90 for about 95 of the PDS we're hoping to finish that this week thereafter we'll put together the package to go to the union for consultation so we're right on the eve of it I hope by the next time we take the snapshot in February we'll have some new Civil Service employees and our staff thank you as you know 225 million dollars was appropriated for affordable housing and 35 million for homeless Services facilities uh to your department in the fiscal 24 CIP budget can you share a little bit with us about how you're proposing to tackle that part of your kuleana yes I think one of the one of the tools that you you're probably most familiar with is acquisition we are working on several large Acquisitions that will draw down on a large Corpus of that uh that appropriation we're hoping to close them this year this calendar year how many uh staff do you currently have on board that works on acquisition and construction projects and how many of those staff work on affordable housing specifically we have four staff in our asset Development Division plus a um but actually we have five excuse me plus a secretary they're all dedicated towards Acquisitions and development and they all work on affordable housing oh good to hear and how many development agreements for City lands is dlm currently overseeing and are there any more in the process there are five five development agreements where the city owns the land and entered into a development agreement we're working on a couple more including one for the Kailua property that we're gonna go see okay so in the process is just that one Kailua property or you have others in the work we have others in the hopper uh can you identify some of the challenges that you had in the last two years and how do you think you can overcome those challenges as council members say he said we're here to try to support agencies in providing them the resources necessary to advance their objectives one of the challenges you've actually helped us all help us to solve already one of the challenges was the restrictions of the money from the prior Appropriations we were able to work with you in the new budget beginning for the fiscal year 24 gives us a lot more flexibility to build products so thank you for that that was very helpful other initiatives were hoping to work with City Council on are I've shared with you a lot of you my concerns not concerns but I think opportunities to refine chapter 38 to give ourselves better tools to enter into Leasing so okay thank you so much members any other questions I'm going to now proceed with uh in person council member Wire yeah yeah just quickly maula chair I was curious um director uh it doesn't have to be your position exactly but in terms of dlm when we're talking about affordable um what does that exactly mean and only ask because it seems to vary even across departments in the city and of course from the city versus the state and so are we looking at particular Amis when it's in your inventory or what does that look like Corey is at the 60 Ami although we have some assets that are lower and some assets that go up to Market okay we'll Hollow for that follow the chair consumers say did you have any more questions yes I just wanted to share with the director that I hope by the end of the year we will complete the acquisition of the three properties you came before this Council if you recall the three properties okay I was as a school teacher may I asked one of my colleagues do they know what the three properties are no oh okay I would like for you to tell us what the three properties are the first one would be the cpb building yeah on I believe School Street the second one would be our blood bank where I used to donate blood on Dillingham and pool Holly and the third one will be the Hawaii State Federal Credit Union building on halekauila pretty good in my memory okay you get an A for that okay if there are no further questions we will now proceed with in-person testimony clerks do we have any in-person testifiers chair we have one in-person testifier we have representative Scott matioshi representative Mata Yoshi good morning everybody Scott matioshi here on uh to testify in support of Catherine tashner for director of Land Management I will not be taking any questions about hcda uh you know I've known Kat for a long time I've known her for about over 10 years and when I started my legal career I worked with her as fellow Associates at Law Firm when we first started you know I was always impressed by Kat's hard work and dedication and really her desire to give back to the community too she sat and sits on so many boards dedicates so much of her time to the community I was always very impressed with Kat both in her work product and also uh just just personally as a friend of mine uh you know as the current chair of Labor in the house we have a lot of issues I know both city and state with hiring good people and I have personally been trying to recruit cats to my private Law Firm for about five years now so uh while I you know I'm regretting that she will not be there if she's going to be director of Land Management I think it's an incredible get for the city to get someone of that quality in this position uh you know Kat has been a private law attorney for a decade I mean she has invaluable experience at that level I think that she's going to be a rare asset for government and for civil service to hire someone of this caliber and I just really encourage you all to confirm her as director of Planet management thank you thank you representative Mata Yoshi you know if you have others at your law firms where the city can recruit we would greatly appreciate it uh members do does anyone have any questions for representative Mata Yoshi thank you so much clerks are there anyone else in the council chamber who would like to testify chair there are none we will now proceed with remote testimony clerks do we have any remote testifiers chair we have one remote testifier we have Angela Young good morning Angela Young Aloha chair Vice chair and the city council council members Angela Melody young testifying in strong support of cats nomination although I don't know her personally I've heard a lot of good things about her and I look forward to some of the work that Kat will do with her knowledge and the coordinating coordination she's talked about and no one talked about the emergency Proclamation that just got activated last week um and that was about providing relief for disaster damages losses and suffering and to protect the health and safety and Welfare of the people the emergency order suspense laws in order to expedite the building process and it creates a building Beyond barriers working group consisting of state city and non-government agencies projects some of the things that has talked about be integrated within the emergency Proclamation and it's only set for one year so and also really looking forward to some of the proposals from the ACT 279 which appropriated 600 million for the Department of Hawaiian homelands because there are a lot of projects that should be in the process of groundbreaking soon thank you Angela thank you so much and we are actually looking at the implications of the governor's Proclamation and I highly recommend you spend a lot of your time going over to the legislature in the fifth floor over there asking a little more questions about that with regard to the Genesis for that and you know all of the people are going to be part of that working group but at the city council we're going to be looking at it but thank you for your support for Miss tachener clerks are there anyone else standing by remotely to testify chair there are none members we are in discussion hearing none the chair recommends that resolution 23-121 be reported out for adoption any discussion any objections reservations hearing none so ordered foreign ER moving to agenda item number two for Action Bill 43 2023 relates to building permit fees we have for the administration today Don Takeuchi opuna director of the Department of planning and permitting good morning chair Kia Aina members of the committee Donna Puna DPP for this bill 43 we are not supportive of this measure we believe that the triple fee penalty is useful for us in our enforcement for unpermitted work um I think since it was enacted in 2020 I can kind of go through some of the numbers that we have it was an enacted July 1st in 2020 and from then to December 30th 2020 we issued 315 novs for unpremitted work or for triple fee penalties in 2021 there were 616 novs in 2022 596 and thus far in 2023 we've issued 437 novs um this is important because it acts as a deterrent from people again moving forward with construction without a permit uh we think a permit is necessary to ensure life and safety thank you thank you so much members before I open it to questions I'll I'll be asking a series of questions myself first could you share with us how much a is a building permit fee now um so it I think it depends on the value of the uh work so I can't give you exact numbers but I can come back to the committee on that do you have a staffer with you right now oh okay no I do not um do you think that the triple as opposed to double building permit fee helps to disincentivize Property Owners from starting construction prior to obtaining a building permit I think so I think triple sounds very I mean a lot more than double so yes and in addition to Triple building permit fees what other Financial penalties are assessed on property owners that start construction prior to obtaining a building permit so I think there's daily fines if they continue the work but it's the initial triple fee if they are working without a permit okay I think um in addition to what I initially asked I'd also maybe like a summary of like all of the fees cumulative fees that uh per annum okay sure okay members any other questions council member wire oh thank you sir I'm a hall of director um first I was curious I know you're not the introducer but through your conversations do you have any knowledge of the underlying facts or reasons for this conversation are there issues going on that you're aware of in the community or no actually I've not I I'm not sure what the origin of this you know bill was okay I appreciate that do we know what the payment rate is for novs um or a lot of them just outstanding pending payment or are we seeing payment made on fines by offenders um so since since this newer Administration came in we have made a change in policy I think it was like a almost instant reduction to five to ten percent of the fines and we've made it um that change to require 100 unless there were extenuating circumstances as far as collecting we we are short staffed so it's not like we're able to quickly collect but we have that and then the collections agency that came in several months ago um the rate at with which we are collecting I think we're we're still working on that uh it's kind of slow at this point but we will um improve that process too and be able to collect sooner and quicker yeah I appreciate that is there a standard policy for um when further action is taken when non-payment occurs or is there some discretion there or what what goes on in there consideration I think generally when people have fines they correct they pay the fine and then if it escalates and people aren't as um willing to make the corrections pay the fines then we can do other things whether it is a attached to their driver's license or registration liens and then collections or even foreclosure it does depend uh we check I think those further steps are are in the minority like I said but it does depend on the circumstances and if we hear a lot of issues that continue and we need to be more forceful I appreciate that um just a couple more questions if the chair to entertained the Mahalo um so it sounds like I'm hearing you're saying this particular section of the ordinance doesn't preclude uh discretion when there's extenuating circumstances is that yes that's true okay um could you give me some exam or give us some examples of what those extenuating circumstances would be so it's Case by case it depends on what the the specific circumstances are it could be that they were somehow um they didn't get proper notice or they didn't know a very uh I mean just specific reasons where they they they couldn't comply for whatever reason um but we look at it Case by case we want to make sure that we have full compliance and full payment of fines but we will listen to whatever they think might factor into a reduction no I appreciate that because from the communities perspective I mean obviously you want to portray fairness and that you're not you know doing deals for different folks right you know making sure people make do on what they owe great I'm just wondering um if intent I know this is civil but like on the criminal side intent is generally a very important element right and so I'm wondering if intent factors into into this equation understanding that folks may be coming from different backgrounds or experiences and maybe you know engaging in conducts with without full knowledge of the law not that that's ever an excuse right but yeah I think it just depends on the circumstances if it makes sense that this fine wasn't necessarily based on their action or inaction so other factors or just um yeah it just depends okay I appreciate that and then last question do we have any knowledge or any data on I guess the socioeconomic um level could be generalizations too of those that are giving fines assessed for violations do we see it being a certain type of development um over another or is there any information on that um we don't collect data on that so I don't think we would be able to determine the type of or if there's a trend towards the types of offenders okay because it could be anecdotal too and I just ask because I know we have in our community um multiple entities that are out uh intentionally violating and engaging in conduct because they know they can get away with it yeah and then sometimes you'll come across folks maybe kupuna maybe other you know people in the community that are more operating not a necessity or what they're dealing with right in the immediate right versus contemplating all the broader implications and and the rules and regulations right yeah there's different yes there's very different types of offenders I would add that you know if you have to do emergency work then you can put in a permit and be able to proceed with construction so there is that option too we just have to understand the circumstances that require immediate construction but um again we'd preferably we definitely want a building permit before construction begins of course follow apologize any other questions the chair recommends that oh I'm sorry uh we will now proceed with in-person testimony clerks do we have any in-person testifiers chair there are none is there anyone else in the council chamber who would like to testify please come forward to the testifier podium and state your name for the record seeing none we will now proceed with remote testimony clerks do we have any remote testifiers sure we have one remote testifier Angela Young Angela please proceed Aloha chair Vice chair and the city council Ashley Melody young testifying in strong support cares testifies and support um because in a sense I think the city is providing relief so instead of a triple fee the fee is being reduced to a double fee um without reading section 18-6.2 A B and C it will be hard to understand Bill 43. what is the fee for we must read the chapter in its entirety this chapter is about building up permit fees it refers to table number 18 Dash a fees for permits which is a table or schedule for how much a permit fee is according to how much a project valuation is worth valuation is a Project's total worth for example a project that is worth a hundred thousand to five hundred thousand the permit fee will be 700 plus 10 per 1000 of the total valuation originally the fee for the penalty was a triple fee and it's being reproduced to a double so to simplify what is being amended in the bill it's saying when a work is when a permit is required but the work has already started before the approval of the permit there will be a penalty fee which will be the double please summarize please summarize please and um this payment of the double fee will not relieve anybody for meeting the requirements to execute this work nor will it relieve them from other punishment so thank you thank you so much clerks are there anyone else standing by remotely to testifier chair there none members we are in discussion council member wire just not reservations thank you noting reservations of console member wire the chair recommends that action on resolution Bill 43 2023 be postponed to a date and time to be determined by the committee chair any discussion any objections reservations hearing none so ordered moving on to agenda item number three informational briefing update on resolution 22-207 urging the city Administration and the Liquor Commission to take action to restore public trust in the Liquor Commission including a Liquor Commission Administration enforcement System review report of findings and recommendations members as you know the council passed resolution 22-207 October 5th 2022 to urge the commission and the administration to take action to address concerns and allegations raised about actions of some of the staff at The Liquor Commission since then the Liquor Commission has been working hard to find an administrator and staff although they have struggled with that Mahalo to Anna hirai for serving as acting administrator despite the challenges of the task also I have seen how much effort the city Administration has put into finding well-rounded Commissioners to fill open seats to figuring out how to handle complaints and to diving deeper into understanding the practices and procedures of the liquor commission's enforcement system this past March the deputy managing director and the acting administrator presented before this committee to share with the plans for a review of the liquor commission's enforcement Services section and that review was completed in late June the results reviewed revealed the need for significant improvements and included key recommendations moving forward which I'm excited about because the goal here has always been to create a stronger Liquor Commission of course the work that the Liquor Commission does is so incredibly important to public health and safety to our economy and to our economy so Mahalo to the administration for undertaking the review and for coming today to share some highlights and next steps so I look forward to hearing more details about what steps have been taken to create a stronger liquor commissions members for your information the presentation is in your handouts and available online as mayor's message 163. we have with us today Deputy managing director Krishna jayaram and assistant administrator and Anna hirai of the Liquor Commission Malinois for both of you for joining us today today good morning sir good morning council members thank you for this opportunity to present our work to date and and thank you thank you thank you very much for your continued engagement and focus on a Liquor Commission so this is an update for from what we last presented back in the spring uh just to just to recap very briefly as you know Council pass rezo 22 207 uh we're in Council Express serious concerns about the performance of The Liquor Commission our establishment of resources to review and urged us to adopt policies to restore trust we did respond in a letter uh later that year uh informing the council from our about our philosophy which was that leadership is so critical to do this and that the Improvement must be from the inside and that we're very much focused on on identifying a new administrator who would lead this change so I want to update all of you on various aspects of our efforts so first uh the administrator search status so we conducted a search uh early in 2023 as I've reported to this Council are both our top two finalists ended up with drawing so uh we we did take certain actions which I'll share later but the Liquor Commission itself commenced a new more extensive search currently we are optimistic that they've been up selection made late summer so that's our goal sometime in August we hope to be able to name a new administrator and and please uh if there's a question is along the way we also started a complaint investigation so as you know there's a number of complaints there are filed with respect to actions by The Liquor Commission uh we reported that we are going to issue an RFQ we did that we posted that in May the deadline was June 5th unfortunately under the procurement oracles you need three responses in order to move forward and we only got one so we extended the deadline we conducted additional Mainland Outreach and so the deadline was this past week July 13th we did end up getting three respondents so now the committee is looking at those three respondents they will go with the with the most qualified one have negotiations with that entity to start this investigation process so this one also I am hopeful that if we can come to an understanding with it with one of these NDS we'll have a fall notice to proceed this entity will look at all of the investigations that have been not excuse me this entity will look at all of the complaints that have been submitted from a particular date last year to now and then uh the systems review this is the systems review that was conducted by Hui Chen it responds to complaints related to the enforcement Services section in particular it started in February ended in June and the report has been made public Miss Chen did present to the Liquor Commission at a at a public meeting um and uh and the report is available to all of you all if you don't have it please let me know I'll make sure to get a copy for you unfortunately Miss Chen couldn't be here so she is absolutely the expert on the report how she went about it I'll try to answer questions if any as best I can but she is the subject matter expert but Top Line is what uh what the what the chair addressed uh Miss Chen identified a lack of clear policies procedures training Reliance on paper documentation unreliable data need for Need for training and need for leadership so now that Miss Chen's report has been accomplished we are moving to addressing the problems and we're focusing on Miss Chen's recommendations we're trying not to focus on on assigning blame at this point we're trying to We're just trying to move forward in recommendations so um to date after Miss Chen's report was uh was was made public we've had multiple discussions with Mr Rai we've had multiple discussions with Miss Chen uh chair and vice chair and we're we're coming up with a plan that focuses on both uh agency leadership as well as employee buy-in and we're establishing timelines for each of Ms Chen's recommendations as well as who will be responsible for each of Ms Chen's recommendations I have details if you want to go into the details um but a quick recap she had 17 recommendations in total these are all of her recommendations and um it's a it's a bit of a balance we're trying to set a plan in place but we're also anticipating an administrator to come in in August so we want to do as much of the leg work as possible but then have the administrator ready to put his or her imprint on how this plan should roll out uh in addition to the administrator surge the the investigation and the systems reviewed we have a number of ongoing improvements at The Liquor Commission that I want to share with you so there is training we're going to be having a national liquor law enforcement Association training for for investigators there is a new licensing dashboard that has gone live we anticipate a liquor control system the liquor control system in Liquor Control information system to upgrade this is a digital platform for Liquor's work and we are talking to DHR about capacity building within Liquor Commission we think it would be helpful to get one or two more high level individuals in The Liquor Commission to help help us move forward in this manner so this is at the Liquor Commission as far as the mdo level we continue our Active search for Commissioners I am very appreciative of the council you've moved on Miss Martin and we're hopeful that she'll be in place by December is my error with respect to Mr patillo so we're still looking for one more commissioner um if if council members you have such great influence and Outreach and and Connections in your communities if if there's somebody out there who you think would be willing to take on this this commission and it is a hard commission it meets weekly at 4 pm um we have three men on there right now we are adding Miss Martin I'd love to add another strong woman woman commissioner but um if there's anybody out there please let us know uh we're also um engaging much more directly with the agency so in the past the liquor The Liquor Commission has has functioned as a attached agency to BFS but we will be engaging much more uh frequently and much more extensively so I will be involved uh with the Liquor Commission I'll be working directly with Miss hirai and whoever the administrator is we will be expecting The Liquor Commission to be at our cabinet meetings going forward and we want to just incorporate them much more into the into the administration as a whole I think that's been something that's been lacking in the past um also we do believe that there's a need for a change in culture at The Liquor Commission and so that's something we want to work with both the Liquor Commission leadership as well as Liquor Commission Personnel in developing that in that in developing that culture and finally we are in the process of establishing a fact-finding function within the city this is actually uh thank you to uh chair Kiana this is the Ombudsman position so uh Miss Chen and I have been talking about it we are in the process of developing a PD and we're looking at other jurisdictions and other other municipalities that have similar function to figure out how we how we how we craft that PD and design that PD um and we will report back to the city council on how that's going and how that's looking so that's my report I'm here for any questions miss your eyes here for any questions thank you thank you uh Deputy managing director before I start off the line of questions I have to tell you I am very very pleased uh with both the leadership of uh your office as well as the acting administrator harai because uh this took a lot of work and uh I'm I'm just hoping that it's this type of leadership that we could um we could replicate in some of the other thorny issues that we're working on and I know that um you know one of the agencies of course that is under the gun is the Department of Permitting and planning and of course we're having an update later today but I just want to tell you that I'm very happy with um what has been done so far and of course now the hard work begins with regard to implementation for both short and long-term objectives but I have a little more confidence now than I had a year ago in the process thank you chair let me just start with reorganization first the 2005 audit recommended a reorganization and the 2019 follow-up audit indicates that one was in process I understand that a reorganization review staff positions will take some time and coordination with the unions but it's been a known issue for nearly two decades therefore in addition to what you have already mentioned can human resources start looking into the situation now so that when an administrator comes on board they can hit the ground running on this but sure absolutely and if and if the assistant Administration has any any background to offer on the reorgan I'd welcome her to share her her thoughts um thank you good morning uh committee chair and members uh Anna Karai with the Liquor Commission if you could pull the mic down a little more sorry there we go um the basically the there is a reorg effort that has been in process for some time now it was initiated by the former Chief investigator and the former administrator and got to uh with respect to a draft organizational chart and position descriptions that was first I believe submitted to DHR in November of 2020 of course the timing could not have been worse if you recall what was happening in 2020 and then again was uh I think resubmitted in June of 2021 to uh both DHR and and BFS um we we certainly can uh update the new administrator with respect to the status on this this is something that probably needs to be reevaluated uh mainly because uh just in Broad terms the reorg effort was which was very specific to Field Services would have made positions within the investigator pool progressional instead of promotional which means that rather than having individuals wait for someone to leave in order to progress up the organizational chain in terms of position they would just uh they would fulfill certain tenure and performance requirements also I believe making the investigative pool at a certain level uh an actual poll that could be drawn upon by both licensing enforcement so that would be some good flexibility the issue we have right now that the new administrator will need to evaluate is that unfortunately we are well staffed and Licensing our enforcement numbers are are are fairly dismal right now we've got a enforcement supervisor two shift supervisors and a total of three field investigators two of which are out on leave so that's a an extremely slender uh I mean shift supervisors aren't supposed to be out in the field uh but they're having to go out so with those uh somewhat diminished numbers then we are constantly uh trying uh or pursuing recruitment that's something the investig uh the new administrator will need to evaluate in terms of whether this particular proposal makes sense to get in place or if uh he has a different idea so that's the challenge with that thank you so much I'm going to move on to the use of Technology now I understand there is software that exists to help with determining where enforcement should occur based on input criteria has the Liquor Commission looked into purchasing that software yet uh currently we have you've heard uh the deputy MD refer to the lcis2 or son of lcis as we like to well I guess I'm the only one that likes to call it that but uh that was wrote the initial rollout was in FY 18 and the first function that we rolled out was the audit function so since FY 18 we have that system has had the ability to generate random selection of licensees for audit um so um in fy24 in enhancements to the enforcement mode will include that randomized selection of licensees for uh inspection or investigation what we have to the challenge will be identifying the criteria that will go into the system so that the randomization is actually somewhat slightly deliberate as opposed to just truly just pulling names out of a hat so that is already in place and it is uh in the lcis2 rollout for fy24 so that will happen this FY thank you on the budget and resources fund up front um I'm trying to understand if the Liquor Commission has the resources needed to implement the necessary changes identified in Ms Chen's report I'm looking at whether you have sufficient funds within the liquor commissions funds second are you going to need funds in the upcoming budget and third uh are I'm just wondering if there are remaining uh arpa funds that might uh be utilized to achieve some of your short-term objectives um I'll sort of speak unfortunately a lot of this happened while we're spanning two fys in terms of when the budgets go in uh for example the uh the special investigation uh fact-finding does uh the deputy MD identified uh hope uh in an ideal world uh that would have taken place uh the procurement and encumbering of funds would have taken place in FY 23 because we had sufficient lapse funds to cover the cost of that that did not happen in FY 23 so that throws it into fy24 and that was not part of our fy24 budget so what we have done is that since that's going to be a significant unbudgeted expense we have looked into our existing budget that has already been approved and we greatly appreciate the additional training funds that you gave us because we're going to start using them almost right away in uh this fall at not just the NL EA that was identified but also the it's called the clear training that will counsel for licensing enforcement and Regulatory that's the the extensive training that results in investigative certification we're going to have to look elsewhere in the fy24 budget to to address that expense and we have identified some areas but it will mean that we'll have to make sort of priority decisions not to do certain programs in order to fund that one Deputy managing director you have something to add to that thank you chair what I wanted to add was um the the creation of the budget basically Starts Now for next year so as we are looking at all of Miss Chen's recommendations as well as the prior audit findings one of our areas of focus is certainly on looking at these items and then thinking about what we're going to be asking for in the budget for Liquor Commission going forward and to your to your common with respect to slfrf uh that's certainly a possibility um as you know Nana will be presenting on this next we we are trying to um meet the council's expectations with respect to Hazard pay and other projects so there there's a balancing that we will need to do but certainly a possibility chair okay before I leave on the budget I do want to say that as you guys look at the um to update the job descriptions whether it be for high level or eating entry-level investigators and you consider a modifying descriptions to ensure that they're properly compensated I just want to make sure that you factor that in when you you calculate your budgets so a budget for a potential increase so that we could improve the job descriptions and so that they could be their salaries could be increased sure hopefully for the managerial as well as for the entry entry level investigators thank you my last question has to do with Administration Council powers it's my understanding that state law governs most of the liquor commission's powers and that the administration and council's powers are pretty limited namely it is related to budget appointing and confirming liquor Commissioners and improving and approving the fee structure is that also your understanding the chair you're correct that's basically my understanding there is a commission that hires administrator and administrator hires the assistant administrator they're not like a typical Department that reports directly to the managing director thank you for that um I I wanted to point out then this shout to make it clear that in spite of this I think the administration and the council has been pretty diligent in working on addressing these concerns because of the importance of the liquor commission's work and I just again wanted to Mahalo both of you again and hopefully send the message to the hard-working good staff at The Liquor Commission that I know the scrutiny doesn't make your job any easier but that we appreciate you sticking with it and I want to support the Liquor Commission in making their improvements thank you so much okay I'm open to questions for other members council member wire um thank you chair and Mahalo Deputy managing director administrator arrived for all the work you're doing um I know it's thankless and there's a lot to do so appreciate it um I just wanted to you know like I said Mahal you for the internal review and processes you're going to be going through um I guess on the external level or at the macro level I'm curious I'm given the mayor signed uh Bill 2521 in March the anti-bias and inclusion uh Bill I'm just curious if there's any updates on broader city um reforms or programs that have been implemented uh in terms of that type of training so council member wire just to make sure I understand your question correctly you're talking about the anti-bias bill and whether uh on our application in a city-wide manner or with respect to this particular agency well it could just be updates um that we were able to share with the community because it would apply of course to The Liquor Commission but also broadly to every city Department I'm assuming right so um I guess just to specify have there been modifications to our employee training for city employees since since the bill passed thank you councilmember so to my under to my awareness DPR certainly has moved on this item um I'd have to give you a full response I'd like to go back to departments and get a better sense of where everyone is and I think that would be more helpful than than my guessing at this point no that would be extremely helpful maybe just a little write up if can on on the progress certainly happy to do that okay thank you follow the chair council member Okimoto thank you chair I do have multiple questions this first one is for um thank you Deputy managing director um you mentioned on page 10 of your slideshow the technology and plans for ongoing improvements could you give us maybe a timeline and how much you estimate this modernization will cost if you're referring specifically to I'm thinking that's what page 10 was about but in general I wanted to know yeah yeah let me let me defer to the administrator who shares the details on on timeline and the cost as well thank you for that question so with respect to FY the fy24 there we go um which will be which will include system enhancements to employee registration the mobile platform which would include enforcement and that randomization enhancement uh you approved a an amount of 125 000 so that's phase six of phase eight uh of the uh L2 rollout uh fy25 uh phase seven system enhancements fifty thousand dollars and FY 26 phase eight final system enhancements I hope fifty thousand dollars so we're at the we're in the home stretch of the L2 rollout which has taken about three times as long as I we originally thought but that's what happens with the bespoke system we didn't know at the time that was going to take this long thank you I had I had several other questions you know really I I'm not sure if I'm reading the same audit that everybody else is reading and I I understand that when you're in a position no one understands what you're going through unless you're in it so I can't speak for um the the the staff that you have and what the Commissioners have been doing but the audit itself had really to me troubling and kind of jarring information that was provided on a lot of the and not just inconsistencies but really concerning information of what's been happening and so I kind of wanted to get to the root of that because I do I do want to be able to address these issues so if you could if you could just tell me um tell us I I know that in the art work chart on page seven of the audit it has the organization structure and you currently are the assistant administrator and so there's the Pocus are a couple of Commissioners but the administrator is still missing admin Services officer in the field services officer but for your position how long have you been with the Liquor Commission and during that time I I know that you've been there you've said how many I think longer than anybody else can you briefly describe what policies have been implemented to help combat any past scandals and the concerns outlined by the auditor's office there was a lot of concerns in this audit correct so when that I believe that's the 2005 audit and we periodically go through an update uh in terms of progress in terms of uh the audit reports recommendations um the only thing I can say is we have gone as far as we can go with uh we we do have some outstanding or in process uh audit recommendations that we have not been able to take off the list but uh our position is that a lot of those do involve either something involving a charter change and or other City departments and we continually work on those each administrator I've worked for and um the the upcoming new appointee will be my fifth administrator since I've started at The Liquor Commission in 2000 um has has uh taken up the Baton and tried to move it forward and uh it's unfortunate that we've not been able to clear the deck so to speak of those recommendations but it's not for lack of trying um administrator how long has that position been vacant um um Mr picaro left the position and in April of last year and he was there for how long he started in I believe it was in 2013. so on average you said this is your fifth administrator on average in 23 years so yes we're looking at about four five years that they're in um they they've ranged in term from about two years to about eight years roughly okay and and your main and from your observation the reason that this position I'm I'm I can see the difficulty of it but it's been difficult to fill what are the main barriers uh well I think current publicity is probably a huge disincentive from someone wanting to adopt the role and there's there's just a I know it's a it's a fairly specific skill set uh a liquor control and uh the fact that it is uh at one point in time uh both my position and the administrator position uh were civil service positions which may have uh brought a degree of comfort in terms of stepping into a a role that sometimes is a lightning rod for controversy and a charter Amendment removed that uh civil service um protection so to speak I don't know it's hard it's hard to say there's a fortunate there's always someone who who is interested uh after uh yeah a diligent search and willing to take up the challenge and and you mentioned um the training and the audit has a lot of information on the response from the from the staff on how there's lack of training or consistency what are the the what are the efforts been taken to address that I'm guessing because there's such a turnover and then you have pukas in here how what is going on with the training because the if you guys saw I mean those who did get to read the audit is a lot of things where people are logging in multiple locations at one time reports are being done I mean it seems some of the claims almost appear to be fraudulent some of the I'm not the claims but the reports how could one investigator be in multiple places and then there's reports of them saying that they're not properly trained so what is going on in the department that we can address that well a council actually did take a huge step in terms of I I believe our training budget uh was increased by almost twenty thousand dollars a lot of that is dedicated in fact most of that is dedicated to investigative staff which would include a licensing investigators if uh if there's a need but Focus mainly on the enforcement so that's uh and it's not just uh investigator skills but some of the or objective investigative skills but some of the soft skills also in terms of something they call Verbal Judo and de-escalating uh certain types of situations that um we are finally able to provide that training because we have the additional funds to do so and we appreciate that we're gonna and we're taking full advantage of all that extra monies that was you know have been dedicated to that glad that we could support in that area because I think that's something that if you have properly trained um investigators and then we won't see the the problems that were identified in the audit but going back to you talk about the licensing and enforcement and on your org chart there are there is that one area where the field services Chief investigators is again vacant and there's the two licensing and enforcement underneath that with licensing could you explain to us what is going on with the licensing and why does it take so long to get a license well um as the deputy MD mentioned we did launch a licensing dashboard we don't identify investigators by name but uh basically applicants and licensees would be able to go in and and look up where they are in the queue so the licensing section is is acutely aware that there are eyes on on the backlog and we're working to address that I have been pretty liberal with giving them on demand over time in order to address that backlog and if there is a if there is a true emergencies they can someone can always call me and I can uh devote individual attention and a response with respect to and sometimes there is like a a large commercial closing that just simply they need more information and I can provide that so just for my if you could repeat to me or um what what is the backlog exactly and what's causing the backlog uh yeah I think it's it's speed of processing and so uh something that went into effect a January 1 uh this year acts 76 uh statutorily reduced the scope of Investigations that would be conducted in terms of Licensing that is greatly I think has has proved to increase processing time of license investigations because now a licensing investigator must stay within those described area in terms of the areas of inquiry whereas previously they felt that they uh were required to do go above and beyond in terms of uh investigative scope and now it's it's fairly short inscribed in uh act uh the ACT 76 which amended the 281. so one of our performance metrics for um our agency is that this is the first year under that new act 76 so we we need to establish a baseline in terms of how fast um a licensing application can be processed so we can establish a baseline for future performance Improvement we're acutely aware of the uh the issue involving our backlog and we've been as transparent as possible the licensing dashboard shows exactly for each investigator how many items are in his queue what has and what the average days and process are okay q and if I could go back to something that I just kind of mentioned earlier I think one of my main concerns was just the alarming um I I don't know if they're inconsistencies or inaccurate reports that were conducted or input so right now if you could explain to me an investigator goes out there and and I'm I see that you it was mentioned in here that the time of their their shifts there's one of the deterrence from getting qualified um people because you if anybody has a family then they're working 7 pm to 3 A.M which is not ideal but a person goes out there so are they using um pen and paper are they doing things um with technology or with technology to put it in because there were a lot of entries that were inaccurate inaccurate and some grossly enough where there was HPD had to be contacted for you know there was an account for that so could you explain to me what is happening so I understand when an investigator goes out there what are they doing yeah currently there's um uh I guess for lack of a better term a double entry with respect to the in and out and premises visited so that's both paper and then it is later input electronically now as you know anytime you have multiple inputs the the opportunity for error kind of increases so one of the improvements that we're going to be able to do with the new lcis2 is um uh explore mobile digital input sort of uh when an investigator visits a premises that will be uh backed by GPS now this is this is something that has to be we have to go through with the Union pretty intensely because there are there have been issues in the past where uh in terms of uh putting GPS on our agency cars for example so this is something we'll have to work with the union on according to you most of the errors were just human input errors it wasn't someone being dishonest some of it it was just reading it it seems like some of this was input not just by mistake but it was I would say it's probably both um input error largely input errors and carelessness which which should be eliminated if you're entering mobile that's backed by GPS now the the item that was uh somewhat um that was identified as being referred to hbd I think uh was actually a mistake um in in terms of the way it was described but that is something where um the investigators gonna I think was asked to just make an explanation to Ms Chan in terms of what actually transpired because they didn't realize that that action had been taken um uh before it came out in this the system review and and moving forward you see um I guess even going back because you've been here since 2000 so almost you know 25 years now have you seen an improvement a decline or the same with qualified people then being trained properly are there evaluations then are they updated on things or are they just hired and then kind of left to to do what they will in your time it's almost it's over two decades that you've been there yeah it's it's largely it's an ebb and ebb and flow process it is highly dependent on the quality of the chief investigator that the administrator picks now we have been without one since uh late fall of last year and that's because I uh even when I was transitioning between acting and assistant I was not going to make as an important and a pick uh as a chief investigator for the administrator to come that is as simply as too important so so you go to the administrator and then that person be responsible to choose or select the investigator is that the chief investigator the chief investigator and with that position being empty what I would think that that's a huge um Gap so what's what difficulties are you experiencing because that's not filled either who's covering for that person is that basically I'm I'm covering both the administrator position and the chief investigator position we didn't um we we I guess we didn't anticipate that the vacancies were going to extend this long but it is um uh we're just uh maintaining operations while we're waiting and if you're filling that position underneath that position as a licensing and enforcement which you've mentioned multiple times having difficulties so what what are you doing in that area and I I I'm sorry that you have to fill so many gaps but this obviously is an error that you mentioned is is in high needs so what are the efforts that you're doing to address the licensing and enforcement since you're filling that position that's right now both of my contact basically is with the two supervisors so there's a license uh licensing supervisor enforcement one thing I sign off on all of the timesheets and uh time sheets and approve uh overtime and they just simply update me verbally with uh with respect to um activities going on in their section okay thank you for answering my plethora of questions I appreciate yourself thank you chair thank you councilman Richey good morning Miss urai morning well listening to the discussion it's been very frustrating and I I would hope that the deputy MD would communicate with our state legislature in regards to chapter 89 which is collective bargaining and chapter 76 77. which is our civil service laws I'd rather go back to creating a foundation or a Baseline saying what are the minimum mqs for an individual that would like to hire as a chief not Chief Inspector but a regular inspector reporting to the supervisory basically it is two years of investigative or inspectional work or and this is something that was implemented by the the uh the former Chief investigator and administrator um uh an undergraduate degree in a sort of a related era in a related field such as criminal justice so they substituted in that educational equivalent for actual field investigative or inspectional work which is sometimes wasn't well wasn't impediment to getting people to apply that's the point with your eye at this point in time after all these years at the national level or at the state level we should have some concrete curriculum or minimum qualifications for these type of positions would it not have been okay if we talked to the community colleges and creating an associate degree that certainly would be a a possibility and opportunity we have in the past participated in job fairs that for example like Chaminade has a criminal justice uh uh undergraduate degree program just to answer questions in terms of what it might be like to work for the Liquor Commission as an enforcement investigator this I just want to start off by word Who We Begin that's the whole point I think for us here for me personally I think you folks are doing an excellent job covering all bases you folks do go to the liquor establishment you folks all go to the wholesalers to look at their annual sales report what I'm trying to get at is that this individual that is an inspector has to do all of that he even has to be an auditor in looking at the finances of a wholesale company a restaurant Company restaurant business or a bar business and I like I said to you earlier this past two years I enjoy reading your weekly report because I look at the citations and then I see the Appeals and that's where I feel comfortable to a degree but why are we not recruiting you see if I know Miss Chen talked about policy is it the state's policy or is it the four counties policies are we all together in one as far as the curriculum that's number one number two the qualifications of these inspectors or does it vary from four counties the qualifications uh well all of our uh investigators are uh union members that's why I say chapter 76 77 chapter 89. are we here to do something or we're not here to do anything and that's where I'm coming from and I hope whoever what what uh bu are these inspectors in um three and four bargainville units three and four which is hga pardon me which is h-g-e-a yeah well that's where I think maybe the administration approached them to see you know what can we do to improve the system itself or it's just gonna be the way it is as it continues on are we are those two three chapters tying the hands of the Liquor Commission I don't know but I bring this up because this is the kind of discussion we need openly and publicly I'm not unbashing the union I'm just trying to figure out a way that we can improve the system and the service that that we can have in place rather than having it continue on for the past it started with the audit of 2005. so that's 18 years ago and we're still at the same position today this morning that's the way I feel because we're not going to the core problem of was it the mqs that is standardized throughout four counties is it the SR that we have to you know pay them a better rate because we have a person of a jack of all trades if I had an accounting degree would I qualify in doing a lot of the audits not in the not in the criminal side as far as enforcement of you cannot do this you cannot do that can I see your uh employee list are they licensed or whatever registered right the employees have to be registered at every establishment this is the kind of stuff that I can sympathize Madam chair with these particular workers and having this discussion thank you very much I did talk to Miss Chen I did talk to commissioner Hong because yeah and I did talk to the deputy MD did I want to help again once more let's get out of this rut and move forward and finally Madam chair in the budget these past years they generate more revenues than what we appropriate the funds for so there is an excess that they're generating excess revenues that goes into the general fund but thank you very much for generating the excess revenues okay Mr you don't have to respond I just wanted to share my manao with you folks thank you thank you council member say councilmember did you have any questions thank you thank you for the presenters we're gonna proceed with in-person testimony clerks do we have any in-person testifiers chair there are none is there anyone else in the council chamber who would like to testify please come forward to the testifier podium and state your name for the record seeing that there isn't anyone we will now proceed with remote testimony clerks do we have any remote testifiers chair we have a remote testifier Angela Young Angela uh this is on the report that was conducted by the administration by Wei Chen okay um so okay about the report I can comment about the Liquor Commission like in general uh what no I would like for you to comment on the report that's what this this hearing is about please uh please provide your manao on the report that is what the sharing is about okay I was actually going to comment about the prejudice against gays but if it's just about the reports then never mind okay thank you so much take care bye-bye uh clerks is there anyone else standing by remotely to testify chair there are none members we are in discussion council member Okimoto thank you chair I want to thank again the discussion that we had and thank you for being here to answer our questions I think I'd like to see more updates uh I do have concerns because if we had an audit in 2005 2005 and 2023 and the same when I wasn't here for that previous audit but if the situation hasn't gotten better and I some of the reports that were in this audit are concerning to me I would like to see if we are funding the the commission and you know we can provide training I just would like to ask that we get more updates on what's Happening along the way sure but what I would like to be focusing on quite frankly is the report that was done by the commission so you have that in hand as well right you're correct yes and part of that they did have things and it was Broad and I asked them questions about you know um the the modernization of the technology so I if if I if Sheriff yes I would recommend that uh periodically we would um we would get an update just as we get an update on arpa funds and a DPP permitting process we'll get an update on the implementation of this report that would be great and of course if there are other recommendations in the previous audits that you're concerned about that you believe that um this report hasn't covered then please bring that to their attention thank thank you thank you chair any other comments by any of the members thank you so much we're going to move on to agenda item number four update on the allocation and use of American Rescue plan act Cisco recovery funds members for your information the presentation is in your handouts and available online as mayor's message 164. we have for the administration Deputy managing director Krishna jayaram good morning again chair council members thank you for uh having this hearing and thank you for your continued focus on slsrf I have a relatively brief presentation it's going to cover uh the current status of the frf commitments and I did want to update you uh council did pass a hazard pay resolution and I just want to share with you what we're doing with respect to that resolution so as of July 15th uh tranche 1 is 98 committed out of the 193 million 190 million is committed tranche 2 is 74 committed sorry sorry of course Deputy managing director we've just lost Quorum ah I'd like to delegate to delegate to um council member dos Santos Tam pursuant to console rule 8D uh council member is designated as temporary voting member thank you uh thank you chair so with respect to current commitments as of July 15th tranche 1 is 98 committed at 190 million dollars tranche 2 is 74 committed at 143 million dollars so as of right now uh 87 of all of the frf monies are committed and by committed what I mean by that is that it has gone through the frf committee and that the and the Departments are executing on projects and this is our publicly available dashboard uh it shows you that same amount approved the expended number is uh is on the is on the right at 124 million and the encumbered number is in the middle and incumber number is a is a point in time uh the the most important slide uh at least for my purposes today in terms of what I wanted to update to council member is is this next slide so the council Pastor Razo asking us to look at the use of frf dollars for hazard pay so we are in the project of evaluating and scrubbing through all of the tranche 1 projects primarily and we're looking for projects that aren't performing as well as we believe they should be so we're looking at all projects that proved prior to February 2023 because we feel that anything prior to February 2023 we should be seeing significant uh movement in terms of the project execution so for those projects prior to February 2023 if they've had no funds encumbered or expended we will be calling in the Departments to have a discussion about what's happening with those projects additionally we are looking at project where dysport there's a disproportionate incumber expenditure rate meaning that not as much has been encumbered or expended as we would hope so again for those projects we'll be having the Departments come in and having a discussion about where they are and the purpose of this is to make sure that we're on track with uh with the December 31st 2020 24 encumbrance deadline as well as to see if they're non-performing projects if there are good reasons they're non-performing those are monies that we would like to identify from tranche one that could potentially be used to address the the hazard pay issue that the council raised and I kept my presentation brief today but I'm here for any questions thank you members members any questions Deputy managing director do we have an idea of a project in the queue that don't account for uh so what you have uh two plus uh 26 percent well what's the remaining percentage of funds that are available of the entire frf about 30 percent hasn't been committed in any manner and uh how many how many projects are in the queue uh in terms in terms of projects that have been approved under both tranche 1 and tranche 2. there's probably in the neighborhood of 30 to 40 projects that are that are being worked on what the red that there that third percent oh sorry um by projects in the queue you mean projects that have not uh been moved forward um there's there's probably a good half half dozen to a dozen projects that have not yet been executed that could account for the remaining uh and what percentage um do you think uh is available that we need to um maybe um encourage you to pursue do we have any flexibility uh if I'm understanding the question correctly the the projects that are not yet been committed yeah the Departments are struggling to figure those out um so that will be a discussion where we will come back to the council and share why the Departments are struggling and get guidance from the Council on what a council might want to see done with those funds and can you explain again about the hazard pay so the Council passed a resolution asking us to look at frf as a possible source to address Hazard pay issues and that's that's what we're doing in uh in looking at the non-performing projects in tranche one to uh see uh where you can get the funds correct to the extent that they're non-performing if there's a reason they're not preferring to Claude back that money and reuse that potentially for our foreign I do not have a definitive number that's something that we're working on now answer membership did you have any um comments because they're going to be wrapping up this section uh this is on the arpa funding and if you look at the last uh page on non-performing projects the deputy manager just explained that this is the criteria that they're going to be looking at for those projects that are not performing to potentially use those funds for the hazard pay no I'm happy I'm happy that you are losing using the frf funds for that particular area because uh I think for those First Responders they need that hazardous pay funds as a discretion but will it not be up to uh can you speak into the mic please will it not be up to collective bargaining to make that determination or is it all for counties that are going to go in as one to say yeah we are going to address hazardous pay for the non-performing service so council member thank you for that question part of the reason I couldn't answer um the the chair's response as far as the final dollar amount is because that is a matter of discussion and so we do not have that number yet we're trying to see as much as possible we're trying to be disciplined about the usage of frf money so we will pull back anything that is underperforming or non-performing and that will give us the flexibility Madam chair may I just say one final thoughts and comment I wanted to say thank you very much for really pushing and initiating oer in getting our rent utility program off the off as far as moving ahead on it because it has really benefited the renters who have not qualified for this particular fund thank you thank you thank you councilman and the ranch utility relief program has been as much of a success as it has been because of the support and encouragement by the city council so thank you thank you councilmember wire do you have any questions relating to arpa I'm not at this time chair thank you thank you councilman okay um thank you so much for your presentation we will now proceed with in-person testimony clerks do we have any in-person testifier chair there are none is there anyone else in the consul chamber who would like to testify please come forward to the testifier podium and state your name for the record seeing that we have no one we will now proceed with remote testimony clerks do we have any remote testifiers chair we have Angela young online Aloha chair Vice chair and the city council council members Angela Melody young testifying in support of the American Rescue plan act funds as it relates to um everything that we just talked about and the hazard pay eligible to city employees who've performed essential work during the covid infection that resulted in a public health emergency um and you know I don't think there should ever be an oppressive work style where people are slaves and work without getting paid um so I'm looking forward to the resolution theme finalized thank you thank you so much perks is there anyone else standing by remotely to testify her to testify chair there are none members we are in discussion council member Okimoto thank you chair and thank you deputy director for um presenting to us I I maybe had just one suggestion on your you guys are on the slide for the non-performing projects maybe um just like just a suggestion if we could shift some of the unencumbered funds to help EMS expand core with some of the projects that you had on here it's just a suggestion I didn't ask in the form of a question but thank you thank you thank you council member we are now going to move on to agenda item number five informational briefing update from the Department of planning and permitting on building permit process backlogs for members for your information presentation is in your handouts and available online as departmental communication 532 we have for the administration Administration today Don takeuchiapuna director of Department planning and permitting good morning chair and committee members thank you for this opportunity to provide another update on the dpp's building permit process backlog so you're familiar with this chart which shows you some of the statuses that we have provided previously as well as the most the most recent status on the bottom row we have been able to come down a little bit in the pre-screen phase but it has gone up a little in the code review and that is again the shift of the backlog from the pre-screen to the code review as you can see from the first status to the second status from emla to April 6th there was a big drop and we've kind of held steady since then but over the next few months we think we'll see another big drop based on the a lot of the things that we have been doing um for one thing I think we reported uh several months ago that the backlog in the pre-screen phase was about 3 600 applications and today we're at about 1100 so that's a big drop and I think the staff are working so hard on that so again to address the backlog we are focused on three major areas it's the people processes and Technology for people we continue to hire in the last since January we've hired about seven um plans examiners for the residential side so we've been very successful there on the commercial side we do have the 15 engineer positions but we have not been able to fill those we we are working hard at trying to but competition is I mean we it's hard for us to compete with private and federal but we will continue to to um try to hire and come up with creative ways to to get some Engineers on board under that we have recently created an internal surge team to work on the pre-screen and residential code review we've recently trained them on the pre-screen so there's about seven staff volunteers that are going to help to add capacity to the pre-screen so again I think that's going to be that's going to help to show a great a greater drop in the pre-screen area and then below that we recently established a pilot job training program and this is using personal services contracts and focusing on high school graduates college students college graduates and retirees who may be interested in this type of work we've created training for these positions and if you might not have the experience currently if you stick with the program you may be able to gain the experience in order to get a civil service position through this program and then lastly the contract for the ICC code reviewers to help augment uh more likely in the commercial side some of the review we are working on that contract and hope to get that going to which will help as we try to hire engineers and train them that this will at least help to bring down the backlog while we try to make those hires long-term and short solutions for the processes we continue to re-engineer and streamline our business processes we've established Sops for instance in the pre-screen area we went and looked at our current process and really slimmed it down took out things that we thought were unnecessary so the pre-screeners now have new tools to help them pre-screen plans more efficiently and effectively we continue to work on removing Outside Agency Reviews and shifting shifting those reviews and approvals prior to submittal of the building permit application I know I presented this to you last time so we're working with the different agencies we've get we've been getting good feedback and we think that in time we'll be able to move those outside of the building permit process but will require a lot of information that we need to create to educate the applicant so they know exactly where they need to get these reviews prior to the application of the building permit and then lastly um for processes Michael cat our planner who helped to stand up the Oahu historic preservation commission he has looked at the the role of this commission and his role as the staff person of the commission and how that will help streamline so uh part of it will be the rules that the commission will that will begin to establish will be able to clearly delineate what types of projects should or shouldn't go through shift d right now are clerks kind of um have a kind a basic understanding of what should go to ship D and what shouldn't but there can be definitely some more refinement in that area and through the rules process that will make it even more clear to the public and applicants also Michael cat as a liaison between Shifty the applicants and the commission when clerks are unsure of where the application can go he can have a second look and make a determination otherwise he can provide it to the commission so that they can do further deliberation and review the third area is technology and so this slide if you look at the picture I don't know if you know what that is but that's a Pneumatic uh tube Machinery that up until last year we were actually using to deliver our payments to Treasury and right now it uh in 2021 there was a flood and uh it broke the pneumatic tube machine and we couldn't find anyone to fix it but thank goodness um but now it serves as a paper towel holder but this is the technology that we we began with just a couple years ago and it's important that we really update technology our current permitting software is the Posse permitting system and it works with the e-plan system which is the submittal uh software for the plan so Posse came about in 1999 for the department and if you think about it back in 1999 we were still using flip phones we didn't even have smartphones we've come a long way since then and technologies have certainly evolved and improved Posse is a highly customized platform and we're reliant on the vendor to make modifications so when we need specialized reports or we want to add a check box in our permit applications we have to ask our vendor and we'll build hourly so it's not a very sustainable relationship Posse lacks automation so many manual processes within Posse so when I've sat down and tried to do the pre-screen myself I'm having to check and move information here and there within the system again we lack a centralized financial payment system we got to replace this pneumatic tube with online payment and a lot of we have a lot of different types of payments whether it's permit fees or otherwise that needs to be quick and efficient and the system lacks transparency I know that we all deal with this well council members deal with this we're constantly ask being asked where is my permit and the new system will be able to let anyone know where their permit is in the process and how long it's been here or there and where it needs to go next the e-plan system which was which is started in 2013 and it really hasn't been upgraded since then it doesn't have a it works in conjunction with Posse but it's connects only at two separate points so when you go into Posse and you open up a project it goes to e-plans but then you have to log into e-plans and you watch this um swirly thing as it thinks and tries to connect so the connection can be better between the electronic plans and the permitting system so to deal with these issues with in with respect to technology including short-term rentals we're looking at um some vendors to help with the enforcement and registration back to its very Technology based so recently we have added capacity to our e-plan server we've also did a request for information for potential software permitting systems and staff has sat through 14 different vendor demonstrations and from there we issued a request for a statement of work under a state Master agreement naspo contract to uh directly contract with one of the permitting vendors so this is very exciting because I think within a few months we will have a contract and we'll be able to move forward with setting up that new system a new system that will have automated processes centralized financial payment systems will provide detailed building permit application status accessible data and Reporting and integration with our inspections we also need to upgrade e-plans to the latest version I mentioned that we're we're pretty far behind so we're trying to work on the contract to get that updated which will provide some um Comfort to the applicants because as we set up the new system we still have to move forward with Posse and e-plans and make that transition simultaneously so it's important that we keep the current system running and give it all it can to work effectively and efficiently but at the same time we will be installing or bringing on the new system a major part of kind of where we feel that our current system is kind of feeling is is because we lack full-time support or management of the I.T in our department so in 2019 we did have two full-time positions that were overlooking our GIS our Posse our e-plans but since then we we don't have that oversight and we need to get that again because so much of our technology like I said the short-term rentals the um permitting e-plans it should all be under a manager within our department who understands our business business processes and our subject matter I mean we really do appreciate dit who are very supportive of a lot of the infrastructure technological infrastructure in our department but it's important that we have someone full-time in our position to in our department to really understand everything that we do and make sure everything's running smoothly we get the latest updates Etc so that basically um people processes and Technology this is how we're tackling the backlog we're well aware of our shortfalls and how we're going to tackle each part of this but I wanted to address you know we're doing everything we can but we often often get called out about us holding on to permits for a very long time so this slide is is a recent just a very current um example Hawaii news now called us and this um developer or this Hot Pot restaurant developer said that his permit was with DPP for over 352 days and I would like to say that that's can't be true that a permit is never completely always with DPP this next slide looking at his particular building permit application the pre-screen definitely is kind of a long time it looks like 86 days and that's what we're focusing on and that I explained that we're trying to tackle and will significantly be reduced the DPP code review was a hundred days and then it went through our zoning plans for 14 days hfd for 10 Wastewater Branch 3 and broader water supply for two but it was with the applicant for 145 days which included these were paper plans so prior to our requirement that everything comes to e-plan so part of that time is the was the actual physical delivery of the plans back and forth and then some of that time was also with the applicant addressing comments but we just want to be uh put it out there because Hawaii news now we we gave them this information but they didn't say that well that's it wasn't 350 days with uh DPP it's back and forth in other areas but we will continue to work on slimming down our time that it's with us but people should be aware that it's not always with us and it you should be aware of what you can do on your part to um help make the process go faster so again you know people think we're it's all all these plans are just waiting at DPP when they're wondering where their building permit application is but sometimes it's with another agency or with your consultant but always try to get the facts from your consultant or DPP about where your permit is provide good quality plans because that just makes it go faster and you don't have this cycling of comments and um trying to address comments and when you get comments address them fully and that will help on your part to get the your permit processed quickly um and efficiently so with that that's my presentation I'm open for any questions thank you thank you director you know with regard to so we do get a lot and I send a lot of risers over but can you tell me when is the system going to be up and running where people would be able to go online and find out exactly where their application is so with this new software so hopefully we can contract in the next few months it's going to take one to two years to get the whole thing set up but um we can phase parts of it and I know that this would apply to all new permits coming in right so whatever's in process while the system's being set up it would be hard for us to provide the status part but if it's a new application we can try to have that as one of the first phases that when you put your application in it'll automatically say where the permit is so I would like to say you know within a year hopefully that that will be the case um for any new permits that come in once the the system is okay and can you explain to us then because we stand at the Via risers what can we expect when we send a riser in is there a warm body over there to be able to find out what happened and to give us an update on where it is and what the problem is yes so whenever we get a riser and we get an application number or TMK we go into our system and it we it shows a listing but yeah that's it's not a public publicly shown status but we do it takes a person to manually go through and find that information and even go through the comments and pick read through it and understand what's happening with the application uh thank you for that I have to tell you that we found out that a great percentage is for is with the actually applicant or their uh the person their agent or Handler and I I don't know what you guys could do to maybe do a workshop to just uh or or an educational awareness campaign about how applicants may also want to check with their um with the person what do you call those people who help them uh just their Consultants they're runners okay Runners they're architect Engineers I found that a lot but um okay and then uh my other question is your increase in your pre-screen in the first page yes and you talk about the months you actually gave numbers with regard to the number of applications um do you think and um and you've said that it's actually decreased the number of applications because you're addressing the backlog is that correct that's correct they've moved up they've moved out of that area so there were like I said 3 600 several months ago and now there's 1100 in the pre-screen queue that means everything else is already in the system that's why right correct well uh that might be handy to to be here so we can see the actual numbers because a logical question would have been um why did we have two months in April and then we're back down to two months in July and that's because you've whittled down the overall number of applicants correct right yeah and when we get through this pre-screen backlog that the 1100 we will be able to stay up daily with what's coming in so it's just getting through that big amount and when you think that's going to happen I I think in the next couple of months next couple of months okay and then tell me about again about you I know the code review is complicated tell me again about how you're going to um help in shortening the time for the um code review so for the code review it's it's a lot of Staffing that we're trying to augment those reviews it's also that ICC uh review the contract particularly for the commercial reviews um and then when we do get through the pre-screen backlog we can use that staff some of them to move towards the residential code review as well so it's about capacity and moving that capacity around based on when we can move the and when do you expect that uh time frame to decrease further for the code review it's going to take a little bit longer I think um generally I think that the three months certainly we want to bring it down but it's it's it's pretty reasonable compared to the pre-screen which has been probably the the worst part of it yeah that's that's where the bottleneck has been right okay thank you so much um council members councilman wire oh thank you chair and Mahalo for um this great news director I was curious so the seven plan examiners that were added from January those are uh service contracts or Civil Service those are actually Civil Service awesome yeah okay and then I just wanted to touch base on the approve to issue um what is that process again because I know we previously talked about waiting for plans to get picked up for permits get picked up so maybe if you could just explain a little bit more about that sure so the approved to issue is once the permit has been reviewed and approved by the examiners then it's we call the applicant to come get it and make their payment provide their contractor statements at that point so it's the processing of the the payment Etc and getting that necessary documentation okay appreciate that what I mean what would cause that number to have come down so much from two months on our side if I'm assuming we're typically waiting for the applicant in that area oh so from two months to three weeks yeah yeah we we really tried to um have staff focus on that area because we we were able to just I guess certain areas make sure that we you know lower the backlog there but so that that area specifically the technology the automatic payment will just make it instantaneous okay yeah so that will be once it's approved we should be able to click a button and then an email is shout out to the applicant and they can pay online and they'll get their permit so it's a technology issue but we still continue to try to bring down that line too okay the only reason I ask is I feel like if if was as soon as we send notification to the applicant like maybe that should be our timeline right where we're like oh this is what we made yeah um at least in my mind so I don't know if we can shave like just cut that out or not um I know you said the 1100 is going to come down and did I hear correctly when you said once we get through it there won't be a backlog at all or is there a certain number we should be looking for um yeah I think it's we can daily the staff can keep up with the basic rate that comes in Daily weekly it's just we just gotta get through that big mountain okay perfect and then just last question do you know if the governor's emergency proc affects us at all or it's too few projects to really make a difference we still have to look at the proclamation and how that's going to affect us yeah okay okay I'll leave it at that then I won't dive deeper Mall of the chair thank you councilmember that would actually be a good informational briefing to have uh something on the governor's Proclamation great idea maybe we'll we'll let director review it first and then we can dive into it okay okay thank you council member Okimoto thank you chair my question actually was connected to what council member wire just asked you but I did want to thank you you know it's such great news and I know that the department even before I got into this position has been a an issue that everybody talks about so I appreciate you coming down and explaining to us I'm a visual person I appreciate the cartoons I'm sure many of the all of us have been victims of the media not um portraying what we do or say accurately so as a former teacher I appreciate you throwing in cartoons there because it helps even someone like me to be able to explain to others when they ask or complain about what's going on these are really good statistics and I just applaud you to hear from 3600 to 1100 that's really significant so thank you thank you um I did just in conjunction with council member wires question I I was going to ask what are your thoughts on um you know bringing the numbers down and so you mentioned that at some point the goal is to get it out and and when do you anticipate that being able to happen where we don't have the backlog yeah so the backlog I think again maybe in the next couple months the pre-screen we can get down it's going to shift then to the code review um when we get enough staff I think and then the technology so that when that all comes together I think we'll be able to say I ideally like a commercial project should only take one to you know one to three months residential one one and a half months at that and maybe even better but it's all these different you know being to have enough people to do the job and then the technology is going to be really really awesome as far as Automation and streamlining can you remind me when that when that technology was going to take effect yeah so I think it's um we're hoped to get into contract in the next couple months and from what I understand a lot of them can start to phase in uh parts or functions within a few months within it you know so we might see things within a year uh to really uh affect the process and then this last column here so you're into your estimation total average duration at the end of all of these things if we could align them properly what are your thoughts on what would be the total average duration for a um so yeah I think it would be like one one to two months for residential and maybe one to three for commercial okay thank you director thank you chair thank you so much uh thank you uh director I think we're going to move uh on uh to in-person testimony clerks do we have any in-person testifiers chair there none is there anyone else in the council chamber who would like to testify please come forward to testifier Podium and state your name for the record seeing none we will now proceed with report remote testimony clerks do we have any remote testifiers chair we have Angela young online Angela this is about the BPP permitting process yes PPP our building permit process backlogs um you know with what's going on at kahole across from Queens it's really proof that there can be expedited permitting process sees to address backlog the kahali that was Voting why and I and then there was also talk about the other Islands there will be more alcoholics which will bypass the backlog and Antiquated permitting processes I really hope that there is a plan to integrate where we're at with DPP and the emergency order and the seat plans as it relates to housing and homelessness the emergency order applies to the city in the way which it creates the BBB building Beyond borders working group which integrates the work of the Department of budget and finance and counties permitting department and the Board of Water Supply and it delegates power to the chief housing officer while suspending the laws of chapter 6E for shift d section 46-4 County organization Administration chapter 77 officers and employees chapter 103 D of the Hawaii public procurement codes section 201h as it relates to housing development exemptions for statues Charter provisions and rules and section 205-3.1 A and 205-4 as it applies to the land use commission and chapters 343 and so yes hence I'm in support because it is possible to process backlog and to address the permitting um concerns thank you thank you clerks are is there anyone else standing by remotely to testify chair there are none members we are in discussion council member wire just wanted to say Mahalo chair um I think all the info briefings we had today were extremely helpful and look forward to continued conversation much we are last agenda item number six informational briefing update from the Department of planning and permitting on development and sustainable communities plan schedule and Transit oriented development plans and Zoning status members for your information the presentation is in your handouts and available online as departmental Communications 531 we have again for the administration Don takeuchiapuna director for the Department of planning and permitting thank you chair so yes you have the report I also have staff here Dina Wong for some of the plans and Tim stritz for Tod if there are any specific questions on this update I know that you guys give these updates but can you highlight for us what we need to be thinking about here that is we're anticipating that action by the council in the near future let's see um for the near future for plans um I'm gonna differ is that as a trick question hello good afternoon chair and members of the committee um we have quite a few plans in process and the first one that's going to be headed to council is our primary urban center development plan update we are so far targeting transmittal to Planning Commission in October and following that it will head over to the council there are other plans are further behind um let's see we're anticipating um the North Shore sustainable communities plan we're looking at having a public review draft out in the first quarter of 2024 so that's quite a ways out and then our Waianae sustainable communities plan is we just held our first we had two pop-up events this past Saturday so it will be a while before that heads over to council okay so uh the primary urban center development plan is going to be uh the most likely one coming to the city council sooner than every everything else is that correct yes and then uh fourth quarter uh well when you have the Planning Commission hearings how long does that process take um it's you it is a lengthy plan but is usually one hearing oh one hearing okay and so you're talking about what September October September between September and December we're anticipating having a transmitted Planning Commission and holding a hearing in October oh October okay and then after that then it will be transmitted to the city council okay thank you for that members any questions yes council member wire thank you chair um yeah Marlo for the update just to come back to the North Shore so first quarter that's the calendar year so like January time frame of next year okay and then so that would be kind of the same process so we'd expect that to be later in 2024 that it gets finalized or right the public review draft will be released and then we have the about a few months for public comment and agency review um then we incorporate that in the same process it goes to Planning Commission and then to council okay so when Community Workshop what does that look like um the one we just held um well that was for Waianae and it was a little bit of a different format instead of the usual Workshop where we have it in the evening at a school cafeteria we held it at two farmers markets um one was at nanakui and one was at Waianae and it was more of a um we had a booth where we had boards set up and we just had it staffed by DPP staff and consultant staff and just talk story with folks that were there at the market to get their input awesome so in terms of the the North Shore one we don't necessarily know what the format will be is it so far yeah because ever since covet things have changed so much A lot of it was online but we're trying to get back to more in-person engagement okay mahalo thank you chair thank you councilmember okimoro thank you chair if um director could come back I just had a quick question kind of a follow-up and I know that you mentioned you hadn't yet read all of the Proclamation that the governor just um released but I'm gonna ask you this and hopefully maybe we can get back to us so with what just happened with the governors of build better housing projects what is dpp's role going to be to ensure that the projects comport with sustainable Community plans supported by Community leaders and the neighborhood boards based on my interpretation of the emergency Proclamation all of these plans are meaningless specific to housing so do you know what the Department's plans will be the governor's new Proclamation well I think it it so I from what I understand I'll go through that working group first and then they're going to prioritize and and then it'll come to DPP or come to the counties and and we'll have an opportunity to look at it what the proposal is and what they're looking to waive at that point I think we will assess you know what the impacts are and whether it requires some kind of um you know what it can do what they can do quickly to maybe address some of the impacts or how these things might be way but we want to ensure some semblance of order and um be responsible and so it it depends I think we'll we'll try to have our input in these projects but we need to know more about the process okay yeah I was going to ask if you had some concerns maybe up front because of what's been it was just announced and how it relates to your department and the responsibilities that you have yeah I mean I think it's going to be a matter of when we see the first one and how we're going to deal with it but yeah it's it's uh it's um very bold initiative thank you director thank you chair thank you councilman Rocher maybe it's for you or for uh Miss Wong I was shocked when I read the article about Department of planning and permitting taking the initiative to rezone the Halal property is it because of the Tod D plans I was distracted I didn't catch that the question was when I saw the article in the paper about DPP taking the initiative in rezoning the halawa property by the stadium why is that okay so um Tim strikes acting to the administrator um that is what's on our update here so it's before the Planning Commission next Wednesday and assuming they close out the public here and you the the two bills two related bills would likely be transmitted to um Council here the following month and one of the bills includes zone changes and that is to and the other bill is to establish the special district that's currently in place around um Aya and Waipahu Rail stations a total of five so far and it would just extend the boundary and those regulations over to our uh halaba so those two items are to implement the key recommendations of the halava area Tod plan and so like uh for example one of the the biggest areas is the stadium property which is currently zoned for single family residential but that doesn't fit with the vision for Tod in the area that was developed through the Tod plan no no I'm happy thank you very much for clarifying it and for the three of us here at this point the four of us sometimes we don't know what we're approving or we do approve the plans for the dod and even the zoning and that's why I'm concerned very much because when I look at the report uh we we approve the olive wanted Tod of last year but we did not approve the zoning of the Tod for Ala Moana right and then when I look at the next page the sustainable Community plans explain to me what is that now Dina or Tim the development sustainable Community plans what are those are would those be in conflict with the Tod plans oh lower make it put the mic lower please sorry okay so our development plans and sustainable Community plans file under the general plan and they set forth our broad policy direction for the growth of the island and the Tod neighborhood plans are a bit more refined and they do need to be consistent with the um uh DP that they are part of so you can think of it as like a tiered planning structure with the general plan at the top and funneling down into the Tod plans and then all of these plans are implemented through um things that are zoning code and other rules and regulations okay it was just uh Miss Wong I I'm just intrigued about some of our plans that may conflict with our other plan it was zoning and will that plan take precedence over the zoning um like like the Tod I don't know yes uh council member I think what might be helpful in answering his question I think you should clarify first we adopt the plans and then you implement it via ordinances and rezoning right that has to come back here is that correct for the Tod plans oh the the Tod oh there's there's adopting the plan and then there's implementation that requires additional um steps correct as far as Tod um process goes the Tod plan is adopted first and that sets the stage for the recommendations for us to come back before Council to present the updated zoning and special district regulations however in the interim there there is an uh a section in the land use ordinance that allows for certain properties that qualify to use an interim plan development Transit permit and those have been active in the Ala Moana neighborhood and when a project does use those they can supersede the existing zoning and essentially use the what the Tod plan recommends in anticipation of us eventually coming in and change the the zoning to match that as part of their their project proposal but see for me that's not planning properly you you just piecemeal in it in the Ala Moana area because you can come back for the zoning we should be adopting the zoning first like for the alimony to these zoning to be discussed or to be determined which is pending projects that are going on previous to my time here didn't have any zoning am I correct we're following the structure in in the Landis ordinance so it we do have to wait until the plans are adopted before we can come in to change the zoning what you see a lot of kind of to be determined status on that because it does take a lot of effort to submit those packages and so we've been focusing on the the rail station neighborhoods along the line that's um you know already open so that they can take advantage of the the rail ridership and support the system thank you very much Mr straight and uh my point is just that we may have the plan they're going to go through the IBT ipdt process which then circumvents our Ala Moana Tod zoning because you're having all these projects that is just piecemeal for me rather than a comprehensive plan of developments in the Tod maybe I'm misinterpreting it but I just bring this up for discussion uh like if I made just just to um address that so there definitely was I I think um something that related to your concern there before the plan was adopted there were various versions that um developers were using or incorporating uh of the plan into their ipdt projects because um they use what the current version is that was I think the longest plan to take to get adopted now that it's adopted they have to follow what the plan says and then those that plan will also be what you know we're presenting to the city council yeah thank you Tim and finally the question I post to myself in the kakaako Ala Moana area District they don't have to follow the city's plans right because hcda controls the whole the property of those areas so they approve everything that we may disagree in regards to the Ami they have it at 140 the city has it at 120. and that's where I'm just confused and lost so now we have a lawsuit pending with the heart in regards to condemnation a project I think they had anticipated that they're going to get the Heart Project going because that's where they wanted to have their particular development all of this I'm just hoping we're not doing it piecemeal by actions of the city council if you're going to tell me what the plans and the zoning would be great if we're going to have permitted uses in regards to hotels in great but don't go and have it all piecemeal by different projects so I just bring this up because yeah I do attend the Ala Moana neighborhood board and I do see what the private landowners are doing and with and is that consistent with the Tod or I whatever idpt plans zoning so though the kakaako is essentially in the hcda jurisdiction and the city doesn't have approval over those projects uh so we don't they have their own Tod plan I think it's still in draft if I recall the status of it the Ala Moana plan does actually extend a little bit and overlap into the the hcva uh kakaako District because of just kind of continuity planning but it has no like legal jurisdiction there it's just for kind of incorporating that those Fringe areas into the the planning of the Ala Moana section thank you very much thank you members who are going to move uh into in-person testimony clerks do we have any in-person testifiers chair there and none is there anyone else in the council chamber who would like to testify please come forward to the test fire Podium and state your name for the record seeing none we will now proceed with remote testimony clerks do we have any remote testifiers chair we have remote testifiers we have Angela Young Angela you have a manao on the Tod plans and Zoning status um yes yes I'm testifying um in support of the update from the DPP um development and sustainable communities plan um schedule and the Tod plans um the transit oriented development plans the city's planning process is made up of three distinct tiers as the as the first tier at the first tier of planning the general plan sets policy guidance for the islands with all subsequent development plans policy plans and regulations of the city to be consistent with the general plan the second tier consists of the eight Regional development plans and sustainable communities plan of the specific mechanisms to implement the two higher levels of the planning hierarchy and these include the ordinances and regulations such as the land use ordinance and Zoning Maps the subdivision rules and regulations and the city's Capital Improvement program um thank you so much okay okay clerks is there anyone else standing by remotely to testify chair there are none members we are in discussion seeing no discussion there being no further business the meeting is adjourned [Music] foreign