[Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] all right we'll call the meeting to order uh good evening welcome to the January 4th 2024 meeting of the motanka Planning Commission the commission generally meets on the 1 and third Thursdays of the month the schedule and tenative agendas can be obtained by calling the planning department or by checking the city website at minaka mn.gov the commission holds public hearings on land use applications from a specific process standpoint that means we make recommendations to the city council on rezonings subdivisions conditional use permits and amendments to the city's comprehensive plan zoning ordinance and subdivision regulations we also make final decisions on site plans signage requests and variance requests and expansion permits unless these requests are part of an application that must be heard by the city council in that case the commission makes a recommendation and the council makes the final decision the city notifies Property Owners within at least 400 ft of the sites post signs on the properties and places notices in the Lakeshore Weekly News and the motanka memo any agreed party May appeal a final Planning Commission decision to the city council if you wish to appeal you must submit a written request to the city within 10 days of this meeting from a broader standpoint the city's comprehensive plan zoning ordinance and subdivision regulations are the city's best efforts to codify a balance between individual rights and community respons responsibilities individual rights are easy to understand Community responsibilities are more subtle but the idea is that we as members of the community agreed to limit our individual rights for the common good of the group The planning department the Planning Commission and the city council are charged with managing the sometimes difficult Balancing Act we ask you keep this broader perspective in mind as we review tonight's applications again welcome uh staff please call rooll Waterman here Banks here Henry here Hansen here Maxwell here Powers here Cher Su here there are seven of us seated here tonight um next up on the agenda is uh approval of the agenda and I don't believe we had any changes no changes chair all right so would someone like to make a motion to approve the agenda as posted I'll make that motion chair uh motion Maxwell I'll second the motion second Henry all those in favor signify by saying I I motion carries uh next is approval of minutes from December 14th 2023 uh meeting Commissioners any changes to those minutes doesn't look like it then I'll take a motion to approve the minutes from December 14th I'll make that motion motion Waterman a second second Banks all those in favor signified by saying I I I I motion carries uh next is report from staff thank you chair Commissioners uh welcome to the first meeting of 2024 hoping that we'll have a as good of year as we've had in the past and um just a few things from last year the last council meeting of uh 2023 was on December 18th we had quite a few items from the Planning Commission uh that carried forward to that couple things on the consent agenda uh were extensions of uh previously approved projects uh those included the ABDO Market house this is the uh menaka Apartments um uh Pride minaka Apartments yeah on exceler Boulevard there in Glen Lake uh that received another uh 12-month extension um we expect that that'll still go forward and then the second one was the uh Bowers uh monoco and onx celier and Baker Road an extension to that um building in the rear of the gas station uh property for the servicing part of the project so those were extensions uh we also had the um bantis point road that was the flood plane um U and conditional use permit item that was approved by the council and then we had the introduction of uh the uh Graco manataka project which is the the site of the former Hillcrest Nursing home so the ordinance that'll go along with the master development approvals on that project was introduced at the council uh we're still um the uh development team is making a couple more changes to the plans before that comes back um probably will be into February at this point before we see that one again and then lastly um I think I had reported at our meeting in December that the uh Orchard Road uh garage that's the um large um one in the rear of the property uh with the condition use permit for the size and the height that you had recommended nilon um the Council had um basically rescinded their decision on that and reconsidered it so the applicant brought back that garage without the the porch Dormer on it so same size um ultimately the council uh decided to vote that down so um that was the decision on that and that's all from um yeah it was the W project if you remember that one yeah um so that was the last meeting of uh the council's um year uh we've got an upcoming meeting on the 18th of January will be our next meeting and then um we have a full schedule going forward so um that's all I've got for tonight looking forward to a great New Year again thank you great thank you uh I actually just have a quick question um on you mentioned a couple different uh extensions what's what's the fee associated with that or how much does that cost in general um so for for extensions um we don't have a fee associated with that okay for the first three um that's basically the policy on extensions as we'll do three of those yeah okay I'm just curious thank you uh Commissioners anything to report yeah commissioner Powers I just have one thing to report which is that this winter has been the mest in my lifetime it's just amazingly nice so I took the opportunity to walk over to what do we call it ridg Dale Commons our new park so I took my little dog scout who's 10 months old today by the way and still full of puppy energy and we go over there and walk around and it's just a wonderful place it was well lit for the holidays it looks very nice and I just think we did a wonderful thing with Ridgedale common so that's all I have to report great thank you all right um moving on to uh item number seven which is uh consent agenda items uh these are typically a little more routine in nature and we'll be passed with one motion unless someone would like to pull an item and have a full discussion and vote on it uh we can do that as well so uh item on the agenda tonight is item 7A conditional use permit with locational variants for an educational use within an existing religious institution at 120007 uh excels Boulevard the recommendation do the council adopt the resolution approving the request Commissioners would anyone like to pull this item and have a full discussion on it doesn't look like it uh would anyone in the audience like to pull this item have a full discussion on it also doesn't look like it all right then I think we're probably ready for a motion on this one um would someone like uh to make a motion on this item I will make that motion uh motion is Hansen I will second second power staff please pull the commission Waterman yes Banks yes Hansen yes Henry yes Maxwell yes Powers yes Cher Su yes motion carries uh and this is a recommendation to be heard uh by the city council on January 29th uh so good luck with that project um uh next is moving on to item eight uh and we have uh no items on the uh non-consent agenda which brings us to uh item nine and I'll just kind of uh spitball here um concept plan this is the first step in a multi-step process and I'm guessing you've got a chart that will show the process if not I can actually a chair I didn't include that one tonight but we'll talk about it Starly new year off Rusty Mr Gord so anyways this will be uh the first step of many potential uh meetings on this potential uh item and with that we'll also uh hear from uh the proposed developer and then we'll also take public comments um if you can be uh concise with your comments that would be helpful as well um but if there's uh larger that are larger me we can also have people come back if there's additional things but uh so with that uh our item is item nine a concept plan for residential care facility development at 12620 minetonka Boulevard and again this is just a discussion there's no recommendation no votes uh nothing like that just a chance to get feedback and I don't know it says Miss Reigns in here but one of you two which lucky person Mr Gordon I will take care of it tonight chair thank you um this is uh a concept plan and I'll talk about that in a moment but let's just first um understand a little bit about what's um being asked for this evening with the concept plan by English Rose so this is the property on minetonka Boulevard um it's in the Mills uh commercial area it's just down the street uh from Big Willow Park as well uh which uh kind of surrounds uh two sides of the property with the creek flowing on the Northern side it's about almost 3 acres in size uh it's very low in uh topography there's a lot of wetland that I'll or flood plane and Wetland that I'll show on a later slide um and there's an existing uh single family residence on the property that's been there for many decades um this shows um the slide from the applicant just showing um that in a different map form and what the applicant is proposing here is to really change the use of the property uh from a single F single uh single family home to uh four buildings for um basically a kind of a community Village uh uh for dementia care and each of the buildings would have uh units in the building for that purpose it's organized around a central uh driveway and kind of common area with uh Trails uh for the enjoyment of uh guests the trails also connect to the city's Park and trail system uh for some offsite ability as well I mentioned some of the uh features on the property that it's low uh it's up against Mayha cre uh the darker green areas show uh where the flood plane exists on the property and this this is the flood plane that was um um previously reviewed by the Planning Commission when we had the ordinance and that at that what we call the atlas 14 update so it's the most current flood plane model so it represents the the newest uh available data that we can model uh so it keeps it it keeps those elevations in check for the for future development and and consideration of flood potential so those are the darker of the two greens there and then the uh the lighter green is a little higher in elevation than those darker green areas so that's where the buildings sit mostly you can see a little area on building number one that um has flood plane running uh through it here uh the applicant was proposing to do some flood plane mitigation to allow that building to be located and sit in that position so that is generally uh the overview of um what's going on with um the property they provided some typical illustrations of the kind of the character that they seek for the buildings again these are uh designed to be similar uh in um their appearance and function and uh kind of organized around a common area so again this is our concept plan review tonight we're uh not making uh recommendations to the council uh we're not um moving forward uh a proposal that grants uh entitlements for land use uh we're we're simply talking about the idea uh in this conceptual plan review so the topics that uh We've posed here and and certainly the Planning Commission can um um can pose others uh are on the screen I'll get i'll get to those but what we want to do is really kind of answer some of the larger questions the policy questions that were framed in the staff report so is the land use uh something we would consider uh knowing that we've got a property that's zoned R1 will need to be rezoned to something different um and we'll also need a comp plan Amendment uh to take it from a park designation to some form of residential so those are kind of the policy questions uh uh to be um commented on this evening and then we can get into some more detailed questions about the site plan uh natural resources the design of the buildings and other things uh the commission uh would like to discuss so um if the concept plan um review is is favorable uh for the commission the council and the applicant and the applicant seeks to go forward uh after we're done then that would be the formal review process the the development review process uh on that slide that the chair had mentioned that's not in the slide deck tonight so we'll have a second level of review that will grant uh entitlements uh if the project is approved in whatever form that comes back so again um we'll have U discussion with the Planning Commission and the applicant uh next and then if there are public uh present we will take a public input uh this evening as well so with that I think I will turn it back to the chair for any um anything that I missed otherwise the applicant is here and I think we can engage in a discussion great thank you um if anybody has any I just have a quick question it's not going to be deep in the details on this just curious why why you would need a comp plan uh amendment was it it was as Parkland yes even though it's zoned R1 currently the thought was it's going to go back to Parkland yeah it's it's it's a little uncommon where we have a a single family parcel that's guided differently than its use uh especially a use that is kind of infers a public use and that really has um a history that goes back many decades uh in three comp plan Cycles where it's been guided as Park um some of you will recall the efforts that happened along the creek Corridor to the west where the city was purchasing uh properties single family properties much like this one along the creek so kind of between 494 and Baker there were there homes in there the city purchased those and turned those to park well that was the plan for this property too um the city and the owner have have not been able over the over those many decades to come to terms for a sale um but the city's kept its interest in having it as Park and guiding it as Park we recognize that if we can't you if if it's not going to be Park we're going to have to give up that designation in the count plan because um we do need to still provide the owners use of the property and we can't essentially hold it hostage you know with a park designation if we're not going to buy it or something like that so that's the recognition exactly the context I was looking for so thank you for that you're welcome um okay uh Commissioners anything else for staff otherwise oh you have something commissioner hson yeah please maybe I don't want to put words in your mouth so would you say then be you're the city is at a point where they're no longer pursuing Parkland designation at all for this property it's wiping wiping the hands um here it it's kind of a two-prong question where it we we still have interest in it for Park um the current owner has basically decided to pursue other avenues for sale of the property so um you know if we were able to come to terms we would be amenable to it um if if not then we need to kind of concede the designation to allow use of the property for what it's being used for or some other reasonable use and and not keep it as as Park property y I would imagine a gap in price would be my guess guess of what's driving it okay great yeah commissioner Powers just for a point of clarification how long has the city been thinking that this would be a good Park property well it it uh chair and commissioner Powers it goes back to um the at least the 99 uh comp plan where it was designated as Park and you know far back into the 90s were those conversations happening I'm not exactly sure looking about 30 years a long time yeah three decades and why do you think it'd be good for a park well um for one I'll just put up the slide here this has um Park land on both sides of it so you've got the big Willow Park uh directly to the west or the East and the trail systems and the facilities in it and then you've got the Mills Landing Park uh to the West so that just provides again kind of a bridge to both of those uh Parks so you could uh continue Trail systems through it and you know maintain what's really a green Edge along U Miha Creek thank you and that was part of a larger strategy you referenced right that was a strategy part of the park referendum um I'm going to forget the year in the in in the early '90s yeah yeah makes sense thanks um all right uh if the uh developer would like to come forward we'd love to hear from you if you have a presentation like to offer comments uh we'd love to hear it if you can give us your name and address for the record and welcome thanks my name is uh Joshua W I'm the owner and operator of a company called English Rose we provide care for uh people um people who need 24/7 care usually and we provideed in the comfort of their of their own home home or in one of our single family homes so we run we operate Care Homes right now I operate um six of them five in a dino one in in a t and um and we have about 15 clients where we provide care in the comfort of their own home and um I'll go through my presentation I think I'll go through it quickly I went I did this with the neighbors like four weeks ago and I slowed way down but I have a feeling we're a little more businesses so tell me to slow down if I'm going too quick but I'll I'll kind of clip through it pretty quickly with your permission sounds good okay how do I Advance this do I do it yep you just use the arrows cool okay we can skip this page you've seen it already that's the property you've seen that page also so we'll skip that um the new flood plane you know if I would have found this property two years ago I think what would have been proposed would have looked quite different because uh I think it was only months ago that the new flood plane regulations were fully in place and it does make most of this property undevelopable and so um that's why the houses are laid out where they're laid out okay um the homes are going to be beautiful um English roads uh all six of our homes are are very well maintained they're embedded in beautiful neighborhoods and we're beloved by our neighbors in all six of our neighborhoods we take care of our homes really well and they're very nice this is an example of the first home which we brought to Market one year ago in motanka so this is my first motanka home it's address is at the bottom 9804 oakd Trails if you want to drive by and take a look that's kind of gives you the sense of of the quality of what we do okay um I added this next slide in just for a cute you know a cute thing which I bought the house from my mom she built it in 1971 and this is the house I grew up in and I just bought it from my mom two years ago and now I still own it and now it's a care home uh in minaka the homes are beautiful both on the inside and on the outside so I think that's the point I'm trying to make with all this stuff I think going with the neighbors though you know this was super important I wanted to get that point across I'm not sure it's as relevant to you guys so I'm just kind of flying through these pages when we're um this is this is an English rad home that we have designed in concept we call it our perfect home home it's shaped like an l and so when you see my homes in that concept plan I just I didn't I just used this home and plopped him in there and so um but nice architectural detail very residential um lots of Windows um hopefully you think they're beautiful if you don't I'm happy to change the style but and I'm just going to do do spend just a couple minutes telling you about an English Rose I'm not sure it's totally on point for for Planning Commission but um people don't really come to to live at English roads because of our beautiful homes they come because of the care they get and the care is topnotch we we hire we we have a very serious vetting process by which we hire our caregivers they're very highly trained and that uh really is the difference uh between English row and everyone else that runs Care Homes um the other big difference is in a Minnesota the average caregiver ratio for long-term care facilities is 1 to 18 one caregiver for 18 residences residents and English R it's one to three so between hiring the best people training them really well and keeping our ratios really small um that's that's why English Rose that's kind of the core of English row it's not really the houses um I'll skip this page this just talks about I think you know the city of Mina has I think over a hundred care homes in it uh in in in neighborhoods so you're not unfamiliar you get to live a very normal residential family like life instead of being in an big institution and so um as you know we got a we got the Baby Boomers uh aging right now uh I love this uh there's lots of statistics on it but this is this is my favorite one um we're going to have a 70% increase in the senior population in America between 2020 and 2060 it's just an unbelievable metric and by 2060 25% of the American population will be seniors so it's a big you know coming up with Housing Solutions is and and uh Care Solutions is a big part of you know they said um before the pandemic hit they said this is the biggest uh Health crisis facing you know America um and then the pandemic it so I don't think it's the biggest Health crisis anymore but it is a pretty serious issue for for communities and my there's there's something going on outside of America uh that is super inspired and it's not just Care Homes you know there's big institutions for memory care then there's these Care Homes which are awesome and and communities are are dealing with this big bulge in the population that's going to happen right now in in with within the senior population and they've come up with something that is being referred to as dementia Villages these are multiple Care Homes all organized in a really thoughtful way together into a neighborhood and they're in Amsterdam and they're in Austria and they're and they're in uh Australia and and um Norway but they're not in America yet and this is the most Innovative thing going on and my dream and my vision is to build the first dimensia Village in America I'm going to need more land than I have here at this little property cuz I don't think four houses is going to qualify as a dementia Village but I just want to take this last minute to just tell just to share my vision with with you or if you happen to know of a big piece of land in minaka that I should work on I'll gladly give this one up and and go to there this is what I want to do I want to do a dementia Village this is an example of a a 15h home dementia village where everyone who's living in these homes has dementia but they're living in a community that feels like the normal communities that they grew up in and and that they live in this is the most UN non-institutional and Humane version of dementia care out there I'm totally inspired by it and I'm still looking for that big piece of property so um one thing that makes my my property you know I'm trying to you know I'm trying to fake it as a dementia village with four homes but I would love you see that little thing that says Barn I'd love to have a common building somewhere on the property that we can use as a community and that makes it more of a of a dementia Village um and so I just want you know I call it the barn just for Aesthetics it's not a barn the there be no animals there but we could go there we could bring residents from different homes and do bigger projects there so I hope I find a spot somewhere in this in this project to do a common building and kind of look a little bit like a dementia Village um lots of reasons um why I think this will be good for the community um we got the the booming Senor population super Innovative care care solution again no dementia Villages or this is call this a dementia whatever smaller than a village if we can think of a term Town um that uh this could be the first in America like this um I've been doing this we've been doing this for 25 years okay so it's not some yahoo who says oh I read I read the I saw the chart of of the aging and I want to get into business and I know some people who've done this and tried to get into this business and they're really bad operators they're not good we've been doing this for 25 years we're great operators so you're betting on a good horse um better than six homes let me clarify that I'd like to I I wish that was pulled out of there exactly but if it doesn't become an English Rose Community I think it'll just become single family homes because it's it's an R1 and it'll get subdivided under normal R1 rules and they'll be single family homes and I just we take really good care of our homes and I've been meeting with the neighbors and and taking their concerns into consideration and like what's the exterior lighting going to be like like do you have protocols and policies and I can Pro make those kind of promises and I can keep the trails open and connected to the to the other public Trails if it's one owner as opposed to get subdivided between three four five or six or however many houses can get put on there um it's going to be as green as possible I got resource challenges here we got trees we got flood planes we have Wetlands I'm going to obviously um planning to adhere to all of those so no worries on that I want to stay connected to the public parks the whole idea of dementia Villages is to invite the community in and not necessarily as opposed to locking people who have memory problems up up in a building you want to actually invite the community in so when I was thinking about where this property is I think the best way to do that would be to make those Park connections as robust as possible if you have any other ideas some some places have like doctor's offices on the village some people uh some places have um educational centers I just came up with the trails connection but I'm open to any other ideas the more we can invite the the the community in the better um it'll be inspired and beautiful um Min a lot a lot of my a lot of my homes are in a Dina we have a lot of motanka families who they want to live next to their mom and dad that are in in facilities like this and so proximity is important I could go find a big piece of land in Madina but I won't be serving my community I was born and raised in minaka and I live in minaka now and I want to I want to do this for the community and also be really hard to get caregivers out there so minak is like my dream location for this um and there'll be new jobs new jobs our caregivers make between 20 and $30 an hour and um we you know creating a bunch of new cool jobs I think that's it I think uh I hope I hope that was quick enough I think so yes great thank you uh Commissioners do we have questions looks like commissioner Powers is I have a couple questions sir um have you visited these homes in Amsterdam Austria Australia and elsewhere no but my wife is told me that we will be you know if this if this comes to fruition we need to fly out there and go visit these communities why haven't you um just the C if you're so inspired by this why haven't you gone just the cost I'm just kind of waiting till I get into the zone of doing a dementia Village like when there's something real I think that's the time to go out there and other places have come to Minnesota to visit English Rose um where we have a international reputation definitely a national reputation and um people who are developing things like English Road have come to us and if I would say if the Planning Commission city council and if like yeah let's let's do this then I will go out there and make a tour and visit all these places and they'll welcome me and and we'll learn we'll get a lot of details like what what are the specifics like another reason not to go too early is I really wanted to I really want to learn from what they have to what they you know what their insights are everything looks great on paper but until you're operational you don't really know what the challenges are so I want to make sure that you know I want to be able to show them my plan and my layouts and and ask them specifically what I need to do and take notes in order to make this as successful as possible so I think the timing is this year not not before so um just to follow up on my own question with a comment U you had you're trying to persuade us that it's inspired by these villages in other parts of the world and you're speaking very highly and very approvingly of them yet you haven't seen them yeah that's totally true I've just been reading a lot about them okay so a little bit of a puffery on there on your part there so are you in affiliation with any medical uh Staffing any medical community any medical third party providers that work to support you or to guide you well we have a team of nurses and a doctor but we don't have anything more than that in terms of developing your properties oh as far as no we've never I think we're we're we're pretty good at what we do developing these homes and um well Min Department of Health Li oversees what we do the only reason I'm asking that is dementia people with dementia there are it's kind of a special subset of humanity at this point and it's growing like you say yeah and it requires a certain sensibility to sensory understanding now I know the area of Acoustics has been quite it's acoustic sensory awareness as well as visual sensory awareness these are very specific fields in engineering and there's many businesses that incorporate these architectural ideas into their architecture do you do that do you think about that do you do you seek counsel from engineers in those fields yeah I here's my here's my two-part question but you might you might consider it more puffery so I take a little risk in answering it this way go for it well one is we're we kind of are the experts you are the experts absolutely other people come to us for advice we've been doing this a very long time this idea of taking care of people with dementia in single family homes is almost invented in Minnesota by Jane Claremont at English Rose mhm I mean this is this is what we do MH however but you're building new construction here yeah my only reason I bring that up is that it this is different than the the one where it was your family home that was already built yes this is new construction so you have an opportunity to do something entirely different with this idea agreed and so I've been um I I I I forget the guy's name right now but he's also really well known locally there's somebody that specializes in this specifically when it comes to Acoustics yeah Steven orfield yeah so I've been meeting with stepen and his granddaughter and talking about if I can make this happen Contracting with them to have them partner up with us and think about all right exactly when it comes to lighting and it comes to Acoustics how can we take this to the next level as opposed to just building a single so you have met with him oh yeah many times but there's been no reason for us to engage yet I've told them I I found this land and I have this vision and so you know and so we're talking but and there's other people like Steve that we would be very interested and partnering with just to make sure that we're doing everything you know the English Rose brand is truly we have to be at the top or we have to be ahead of just the normal things going on when it comes to caring for people with dementia and so if I get to build new homes and especially if they're clustered onto a campus I'm going to go visit around the world all the people who do this I'm going to partner with people like Mr orfield and his expertise in Acoustics this is going to be I want this to be my life's work I mean I want this I just wish it was bigger I want this Village to be my life's work and I'll do it at the highest level absolutely I'm not just going to put six homes up that that are you know that just qualify as Minnesota Department of heal Health licensable this will be this will be very inspired okay thank you yeah other questions yeah commissioner Banks you have a question thanks chair um joshu I I caught your first name can you repeat your last name for me w w TS and Tom all right and I have uh quite a few questions if you can bear with me um let's start with um your vision for this um property with the four homes what size these are you they're about 3,000 square fet okay um they don't have basements cuz we don't need basements and it's best to have uh all the bedrooms on the main level that's what makes them this kind of long shape sure and um you know what it might be 3500 I just can't remember if the garage is in there or not sorry so roughly between three and four we'll say safe um how many residents are you anticipating being in each home so um flexible on that goal would be nine nine nine in each home yeah nine bedrooms and that includes and then what about staff staff don't live there we have three shifts two staff or more at all shifts and so staff come and come to work there but they don't live there okay um any family or invited to stay in these facilities like spouses well we have a husband and wife uh um who are moving in as yeah as a couple so that can happen but that's then two people that counts as two of the nine or two of the six depending on the size of the house so they would have two rooms well we we have a husband and wife right now who who are happily married but they've um they requested different houses so they're living just a couple blocks away from each other um every family is different so someone may say same house different rooms someone may say king-size bed together together it really depends and as as the disease of dementia progresses it gets it can get really challenging to stay in the same bedroom as as somebody who has dementia and anyone with dementia are they able to travel drive a car or is that totally off limits for them as well that's totally I mean yeah I'm going to the short answer is totally off limits so so I'm just I'm just thinking about parking and great question I have one H I have five dementia homes Memory Care Homes and I have one assisted living home so it's licensed under a different rule than the than uh with the Minnesota Department of Health if you have an assisted living home you need parking spaces for everybody you need different bathroom setups these will be uh licensed as dementia homes so that um yeah so different door access systems different fire codes sprinkler systems things like that okay so in terms of parking garages what do you envision so all my other homes have six bedrooms and there's always two or three cars in the driveway and so and and I'm happy to do a study we can also go by I mean just drive by and look and we have um so there's two to three cars and someone may visit and a nurse may come you know there could be five cars per home and this is now going to nine so we're just going to uptick that by 30% so um instead of we do a 1 to3 ratio so at a 6% home we'll have two caregivers that's two cars so at a 9 person home we have three givers that's three cars and then you just you know if there's an extra two cars maybe now there's an extra two and a half cars so we definitely need to think about that in in planning this this property okay and so that's four cars per home yeah but don't please don't quote for the record please don't quote me not quoting just a car study will definitely be be thoughtfully done um on your slideshow on your slide back on page 17 yeah uh yep here you have an aster by the one one of three for English roles what does that Aster represent it looks I yeah when I have an asterisk in one of my presentations there's always a footnote at the bottom now there's one missing so I think I meant to remove that asteris my guess is though I can kind of remember an earlier version of this deck usually our ratios are closer to 1 to two because um we have uh nurses who don't really count as caregivers okay but so we have one nurse per for every two homes so so that's a half person right there that's always in the homes then we have activity coordinators physical therapists we have occupational therapists I mean the amount of staff that we have in the homes is never three you know one to three it's always two but I think for I just want to go caregiver to caregiver and so this is a pure caregiver to caregiver ratio but the truth is our Staffing ratios are actually I think you would say lower more like one to two one to two and a half okay U and last question um the barn um facility that you have there in the center of the property yeah uh is that for public use or just I thought it could be like like but I just don't I haven't come up with and again I think visiting these places around um the world will give me ideas and insights of what else we can do like education you know I was we were thinking yoga exercise designed for seniors but then I'm thinking but but then there's the marsh you know that just got bought by the city of minaka I'm not sure what I can bring to the community but I'm wide open to these ideas I would love it to have a really cool interesting you know use for the public well I just wonder how that would change the use of the property if there's a community building on the property versus for residents for residential but that's probably something you have to work out with the city yeah i' be yeah I would balance it I mean I'm I'm pretty civic-minded you know um I ran a nonprofit before this I'm not you know I'm doing something that benefits the community is what my career has been about and so I'm in the superv Visionary I'm very into any ideas that we can come up with where this could be where where the city of manka would be proud and honored to have this in their city like Rochester has mail I mean that's that's what I want you know if it was just a little bigger that's what I want you know I would I would love the city of manka to be like we're all you know we're we're hosting the first Dementia Village in America okay all right thank you you got it other questions commissioner Maxwell did you have a question before I was reading by language I I did but Mr Banks took most of them but I do have one other question um about your your six existing homes were any of those things that you constructed specifically for this or were they all existing homes that were updated for this use they're all existing homes that were updated which was the business model for the whole industry but that may be coming to an end and it's very complicated but the minister Department of Health had a major revision to their laws about what these homes have to be and I think the era of renovating homes and turning them into demena Care Homes has come to an end that um the the amount of firewall protection and they have all these new standards that will make doing the business I'm in I think it's an I think it's an unintended Consequence the the the the upgrade of our laws Minnesota was surprisingly behind in this area of our laws in dementia care facilities that's poorly described but I hope you understand what I'm saying they finally upgraded them so that we're on par with the rest of America as far as safety and width of hallways and all these other criteria but it might have accidentally wiped out this industry Because unless you can do a new build like weend turning your family house turning your home your personal home if you you and if you decided I want to do one of these in my home it's pretty hard now these days so okay this will this will be these will be the first newly built um single family homes that will be licensed by the Minnesota Department of Health for for dementia thank you yeah commissioner Waterman you have a question thanks chair uh two areas of questions uh Joshua one just the the city and its observations brought up questions for the Planning Commission about um safety yeah um and I was just hoping you could comment a little bit more about that both in terms of safety for the residents especially I imagine where they're headed is Visa the creek Visa Vis you know pretty busy roadway yeah a and then I don't think safety is the right is where I'm going with this but for the trail connection if you could just comment a little bit more about how you designed that any any concerns with more like the public getting too close you know people cutting by on bikes I think it would be actually fairly busy okay with that so um you know demen dementia care homes are just in single residential neighborhoods you you know a lot lot of the neighbors don't you know um you'd be hard to even tell that they're there um dementia residents don't spend a tremendous amount of time outside when they go outside they have to be 100% um um supervised thank you so it's those simple words I can't remember they have to be supervised uh very closely and so we're in neighborhoods we're in all of our neighborhoods and we're out walking every day that we can when and spend a lot of time time outside but we're always one to one supervised and so in this in this situation we're only going to have in this little neighborhood we're only going to have dementia homes four dementia homes instead of a normal where you'd have one dementia home and then a bunch of single family families live living there so I don't think there's a desire in this model to keep a distance between the public and and our residents I think we want as much integration as possible because our residents are always supervised um we have one two two homes right now that back up to ponds and you know our residents aren't out in in the backyards and so our residents are really inside the homes or they're supervised so I don't see the creek being a a a threat to the safety of the residents at all um and I did I answer your questions kind of yeah kind of gave me a good overview I guess the only followup is just I'm I'm going under the assumption that it sounds like there are very specific licensing requirements for dementia care so that this would comply with oh yeah whatever's in there yeah we're audited we're we're licensed yeah Al we are part we are a part of the ecosystem overseen by the Minesota Department of Health so second area question just you mentioned kind of wanting to or the intent to adhere to natural resource constraints and I know sort of a chicken and egg you know just trying to figure out is this the right plan or not how much have you worked with the city to Fig to understand our tree ordinances and which Wetland protection rules would be in place here the reason I'm at let me explain why I'm asking is like there are we've seen concept plans come that like look interesting and then when you really get into the details it becomes like highly impracticable with all the variances that would be required where I just yeah would hate for developer to get too far down the road so how much have you gotten into that the weeds so now we need to hire the engineer and I'm interviewing three Engineers all of whom have worked and with developers in the city of minaka so they're all pitching to me that they're quite familiar with the resource uh requirements and they will be the ones say okay this is my dream what can I do and they may come back and be like based on all the calculations and the runoff and the tree withs you know you can build two homes you know who knows what's going to come back this is just my concept so great thanks my expectations are managed commissioner Henry you'll be next commissioner P thanks chair just a few followup questions from my fellow Commissioners too in the presentation if I heard you correctly you mentioned that the proposed house that you had up on the slide you deem it the perfect house yeah and also I heard that in the neighborhood meetings that people wanted to have diversity in the architecture so how can you marry up the perfect house with variety are you going to have one with a flat roof one with a gabled roof some small differences like that or would you materially make things different so you'd have several perfect homes right so um I you know if you look at um this development right here they're all the same houses right and so there's a question strategically do we do four single family homes that don't look architecturally connected at all or do we do four homes that are all that basically look the same and I didn't know the right answer to that but I think I I'm I'm falling on the side of let's do four totally unique homes and um so that the whole idea is that you're not going your loved one's not going to an institution they're going to a neighborhood that feels comfortable to them that they're familiar with and so why would all four home hes be the same color in the same architectural style that starts to feel a little cultish and so I'm leaning very much towards four totally unique homes just like any neighborhood in minona would look and then the neighbors AC uh we we were at a bonfire in their backyard and we were chitchatting about this and they all preferred that much more so that's just that confirms that it's not going to look like this we're going to do four unique homes and perfect is more about widths and doorways and bathroom locations and where's the storage you know when you do a renovation you know your toilet paper maybe two floors down and the you know you just you know nothing's perfect because you're trying to put this thing together when when we've done this Perfect Design it's really just more the layout we'll find four perfect designs so thank you functionality is what I meant yeah and I assume that this is born off of a lot of experience that you've had with these homes that you've remodeled and you know what you want to do logistically y can you tell us about how long you've had you've been in the business with these single family homes that you've renovated versus you said you've been in business 25 years how many of those years have you managed these homes versus inhome Care at the places 20 it started with a single family home on Blake Road right when Blake Road turns into interlock and it's the little white farmhouse there that's that's an English Rose suite and um and that was 1997 the home care only started about 10 years ago because more and more people want to stay at home as long as possible and so they're calling us saying I don't think my mom's ready for to move in can you guys provide the englishrose experience at her house and so that's how we got into that business and now it still represents a very small portion about 10% of our revenue is in home care and um but it's growing more and more people want to stay at home as long as possible which means for us more and more people who come to English Rose Suites and lives in one of our homes are much further along in their dementia progress we had one home 10 years ago where it was six residents who were all there for seven years seven years no one we never had turnover people were going into our homes much earlier in the development process now people are staying at home much longer and by the time they come to English Rose oftentimes wheelchair bound incontinent um need to Hoyer lifts in and out of beds so our business model is changing a little bit because I think the preference is to try to keep everyone at home as much as possible but this is the core business we're in thank you you answered other people's questions about safety too have you worked with the city do you anticipate having to have a fence on the minona boulevard side of this area no and in 25 years with Home Care in homes have you had any patients that have for better term gotten loose and then gotten onto a road and had any close calls so we we we um it's called elopment Uh that's the term I thought that was getting Meed but in this industry elopment means someone escaped um and um I think in 25 years we've had two elopements and um neither of them you know amounted to more than the next neighbor's lot because we're so highly staffed we don't miss people for very long but they got you know one lady crawled over a fence you in the backyard like it was pretty impressive no one knew she could do that but she got over the fence and she made a break for it she didn't know where she was going she didn't know why she was doing it she you know but she knew she wanted to get out of that backyard and the neighbor called but we have to report those to the Minnesota Department of Health that's public information um all of our violations you know any of those incidents are reported to the Minnesota Department of Health thank you and then from a resource's point of view this may be premature and this also may be a question for the city too but I noticed that there's a lot lot of impervious surfaces on the flood plane primarily the driveway and the barn to and I'm assuming that you'll do the due diligence with your engineers with the city to make sure that whatever you design is going to be in accordance with all of the policies yes of course I mean I can't say there won't be a variance I'm not a developer I don't even know what that you know but yeah we're going to work within all the rules and see what we get if something looks super goofy well then we may say well maybe we should ask for a but but yeah did did you ever have any ideas about putting the connection from park to park on the creek side yes just it was very similar to um should the houses match or should they not match should they should where should these Trails be and I my intuition was to put them on the creek side but all the neighbors across have said like please don't do that put them where you have them okay we don't want we don't want to see these strangers and so okay I would go either way you know very open to neighbor and City you know feedback just tell me what you guys want CU that's not critical to my core business model which is caring for people so what's your ideal number of homes in your vision of a dementia Village I mean if I could do six I would be um and I don't want to do bigger I I I want to do a little a little dementia Village and a lot of dementia Villages have like fake retail in them if you see that article in the New York Times about dementia Villages you know there's a there's a cafe and there's a movie theater and there's a barber shop with a you know a red and blue twirling thing and we think at English Rose all that's a little a little bit um just trying to sell flashy sales it doesn't addly add value to the art life and so the bigger you get the more of those splashy amenities you can have I don't want those I want to keep it intimate our whole business model is hyperlyte and so I don't want it to get too big so six is my answer okay last this is more of a suggestion than a question but for the barn have you thought about some way to put people to work and people like to have tasks to do so I'm thinking if you have park to park people that are biking walking through they like to drink coffee have smoothies love it love it we we do that in our neighborhoods we also Garden um um you know in Holland is that no Holland's Netherlands in the Netherlands they have um dementia Farms so you have a big barn in the Middle with animals okay and then all these houses around the outside and they do organic farming they do child care they do um I forget the other things but it's it's like a work in farm okay they take care of the animals equestrian therapy obviously they're not taking the lead our residents in any of these things I mean if I could get one out and you know that would be a whole that'd be the ultimate dream would be do something as as amazing as that but I'm not ready to go that far away I want to do a dementia Village a little bit tighter um density and in a in a first second third ring suburb so but I you know I love these ideas so yeah what could we do if we created this this little Barn could we offer lemonade could we offer you know coffee absolutely could could we create a little cafe for for for people to come and actually visit with people with dementia and not be so scared of it and and that would be I mean first of all that's the best idea I've heard so far so I'm taking that idea so if this happens we'll be doing something like that because that that's an awesome idea thank you yeah I think commissioner Powers had a had a question you'll be just a couple of questions sir um do you have a working relationship with a general contractor right now that you would use yeah and who would that be dovetail um they they do single family homes they don't do so we have to decide do we go commercial or do we go residential we're doing residential these are single family homes in every respect yes they have smoke compartments and a lot of technology that make them licensable with the Minnesota Department of Health but ultimately these are single family homes and so we um I've worked with dovetail um they become close personal friends of mine and when we renovated this home here you know the learning the learning curve was steep I mean we're on the we're on the phone with the Minesota Department of Health all the time wait how does this work and what about it what if the door swings this way and so they're really experienced in this now I mean really they've done one but they're super motivated to do this campus or to do any other homes I do I'm sorry I didn't follow they're really experienced they've done one yeah I I corrected myself I said to me they're really experienced now I wouldn't want to use I wouldn't want to start over with a new JN contractor I was like well they've only done one so you can't call them that experienced but um they're my guys and and and they're great and they're and they're inspired by the mission of the business I mean usually they're doing two3 million homes for rich people on lake minaka and God bless them that's great and this is you know this is really this business has a lot of heart in it and you're helping people and they're totally inspired by it so I'm going to I'm going to stick with them with dovetail and then how did I'm just curious how you became aware that this property was available so I um I drove by you know I'm I'm I'm in my mind wanting to do a dementia Village but there's not a lot of properties left in minaka there's the two on Plymouth Road one on each side that I wish that that I wish you know were mine okay and I miss them and I drove by and saw Roger Anders Anderson yeah Roger Anderson's home so I just pulled over and drove down the dirt road and got to the house and there's cars in disrepair and you know tractor equipment and the the the garage is leaning and I thought I wonder what's going on here and suddenly I heard can I help you and I was like uhoh and a an hour later we were good friends and I told him all about English Rose and my vision and he was pretty inspired and we shook hands right there like an oldfashioned deal and that was it thank you yeah commissioner Hansen you have some questions I probably have um a couple City Planning questions and then I have a weird interaction with compassion in this care setting a lot of weird experiences here so why tonight is in your proposal there's four 3500 foot homes why is four the right number for this site when you could shrink them down and maybe do six because if I shrink them down I got to put elevators in them I could do six that's what I you could do six probably well okay I I could do maybe with five bedrooms on one level and five up or four bedrooms on one on the main level and six up okay and that may be the way this ends up going based on setbacks and Josh you're really you know there isn't place to put the flood plane like I I may have to go to an elevator model but it's not my those aren't my dream homes soon as you have an elevator you know feels a little more institutional maybe when there's an elevator and also the families are like wait my dad's going to be up here but the kitchen and the hangout areas down here even though it's psych even though it may not be totally relevant it definitely sends a different message and they don't feel as comfortable with their loved ones on a different level and so my dream is to do these big long flat houses sure Noe that that's helpful when I heard you say six I didn't think we were that far away so that's good like experience that you're lending us there yeah I mean so four gives you four gives me all the bedrooms on one L square footage and on one level okay yes they I I've already realized you know I may have to go to multi-level houses so okay um my you know when I see a staffing ratio of one to two and a half yeah I'm I'm really um I have to take a step back because that to me means this is private like elite private pay yeah yep unfortun so like um this is a you know dementia doesn't know your net worth um but when I hear like I just struggle with that because I don't think there's a diversity in housing stock we're just building a really nice home um for somebody who needs that right but I you know I struggle with that as a as somebody who's really experienced in title 19 that we're not serving um a broad population here we're serving people who can afford yeah I struggle with your service I struggle with it too it's not my ideal um you know the reason the dementia Villages work outside of America is probably because of universal healthcare and so that's why they haven't shown up here in America yet you just can't make the numbers work um and so yeah we uh we're all private pay it's a bummer um I would is what it is yeah I mean but that that's the way i' I've come to I've come to term of two ways you know I really am am I would have gone on to run a not for profit I'm really in in serving the community and so in this way I'm serving people in need who you know um they need somewhere to go but you know you know how I feel good about what makes me feel good is the caregivers I have a 100 caregivers on staff who make 20 to you know let's say 20 to $25 an hour okay before they get into like assistant management positions it's not a lot of money okay it's a lot of single parents um they have second jobs um um they're just getting by a lot of kids lot and um we do a you know I could do a whole presentation about what we do for our caregivers and um to change their life and to make a a meaningful impact and give them the stability and the 360 support that they deserve because they're they're a little bit living on the edge for for a little bit and you know lots of transportation problems lots of housing problems and we step in and that's kind of how I feel that need for me is by work is by the work we do with the caregivers because our residents are are are a unique percentage of the population that don't need that kind of Community Support yeah and I I always struggle with that too I mean you're hiring a custom home builder and you are saying to me that your employees have a tough and tough time making ends meet Y and I struggle with the dichotomy of that so do I um so that that makes me give pause to this as a project to say I think as a I just lean into comments a little bit here as a site you know a dementia care site is some something that is an awesome idea to me um I want to make this be the right one and with your length of time in the industry I feel like okay here's a pretty good partner but I want to ensure that minona gets a really good product not just a really really really Elite know highend I'm with you product well I don't sense that en entirely quite yet but well I don't know what else I can do but I actually don't it it's um and yeah I just I don't know with my business model what to do about that yeah so yeah it's not your macroeconomic problem I mean the reason the reason the Staffing ratios in Minnesota look like that is because with public money that is the Staffing you can't go below 1 to 18 you know it might be 1 to 10 but that's this is an average and so sure so that's just not the business I'm in yeah and if I'm in that business then you need scale right and then you need a building you know that has as many people as possible in it because your margins are so and so it's just not the business I'm in yeah and I hear that and so that's probably the education we need as we go along this journey from concept plan to proposal to say why is this project a really good fit when it's serving a select few versus a more utilit approach so I I hear that and I'm not trying to push back at you I'm trying to pressure test this a little bit yeah no I I appreciate I think you're right on point and if there's if if there was a way to give back to the community and use our expertise yeah you know I'm all about it does does each of the four structures have I'm assuming its own kitchen oh yeah these are these are single about personal care where is like uh haircuts stuff like that how well that's all BR in okay um the homes are really just this they are a home R1 yeah R1 subdivision I mean the these they could be converted back to you know take a big Master uh uh uh primary Suite you know take a wing of it and just turn it back in then the other ones are for kids bedrooms these are just total single family homes and then you go get the license to do a care home through the Minot Department of Health sure makes sense okay that answer your questions um yeah I just have for comments okay can you hold them for a little bit perfect any other questions for the developer all right I think you thank you for being patient and answer all our questions we may have more for all right we will open the public hearing if anyone would like to come forward and offer any comments on this item feel free all right looks like we lost a couple people so we'll close the public hearing uh and Commissioners uh we've got commissioner Hansen you ready to go you were the comments on the top of your mind got momentum so before before I forget and require some Elite uh care I think that compassion is something as a Planning Commission we don't get to do very often so I think um you know moving from a park when I put my planning my boring planning commissioner hat on uh sorry sorry Lauren uh um moving from a designated park to a place that provides a um a true quality of care that people are deserving no matter their income level um I think that's a a good thing for us you know it it's probably my personal problem that it's not serving people who I think deserve this same level of care um so maybe as a throw it into the ether as a public policy I wonder if there's affordable housing that happens in dementia care from a from a state policy perspective um in the future um or we we find a way to say to work with developers like this to say we want one unit in Europe in your facility to be designated affordable housing essentially I don't know the you know the rule rules or the laws around that but but I struggle personally with probably the the income and that's not Planning Commission but that's just where I sit I I feel what we've seen tonight is um heading in a an nice Direction I think there's a lot of refinement that we haven't seen so be curious to come forward and see if we see elevators see a second story I that doesn't bother me as much I trust the the business side of this to know what will work or what won't work and I think then about the site I think I would like to see clear definitions around parking I think about a staff LEL if you're going to have 36 bedrooms or whatever there ends up being here and you're staffed at one to two you need 18 employee parking spots all the time and then you're going to have crossover and you're going to have Amazon and food service and so you probably need 40 parking spaces you know realistically in my head and I didn't see that tonight um and you'll work with the staff and and get there but I think you're gonna have a little more traffic than maybe What that particular mockup can handle right now what do I know um so I I I guess from a design I I agree I think I'd like to see four homes that are of the same you know General feel but they do have different characteristics that to me feels more like the neighborhood I live in where none of the all all the houses look like a 1950s Ranch but they're all a little quirky and have some sort of lean to on it um and then I think what I would also like to see I'm sure the the developer can get here too but if the trails are connected which feels like you know uh a little bit of an olive branch in some weird way i' I probably would want to see some signage to say you know like from from a public standpoint educated like we want you to come here but we want you to come here with respect and um I think citizens of minona would do that frankly too so kind of where it's it's fine I'm not all in yet but it's it feels like an appropriate use of the site so great thank you for sharing Commissioners other comments commissioner Henry what do you think well first of all thank you Josh for the for the thoughtful presentation and the the work that you're doing with the community it's in terms of use and in terms of utility for the community I think it's a really high use of of of what we can have that land be used for and I'm a huge proponent of Parkland and my first thought when I read this was it needs to be a park because you've got park on the one side park on the other side and I really want to see that connected I'll leave that up to the city up to the land owner and to make sure that they did all the diligence and the city always does to make sure that all avenues have been exhausted and I still think that it would be better as a park that being said if it comes down to it and the city and the land owner can't come to an agreement and it has to be it's developed in a different way then I couldn't think of a better way to develop it than to have an assisted living facility specifically memory care because there's so much potential for interactivity with the community and I think that's what I don't say that I'm going to say it's it would be change it to a PUD because of a public benefit but I can see there's a public benefit in having a memory care facility on both sides of a park because there's potential for educating a lot of the the people that live in the city about what how it operates and that's why I I had the idea of having some way for people who are living there to feel worth and to have a job and also to provide a public good because people like coffee and smoothies so I thought why not do something like that and I can mix comments with suggestions as well I also think that you could do some kind of a maybe once a week bring in pets that need adoption and then you could have the because who doesn't love dogs and cats and everything else too it would be be good for the patients it would be good for the community so think about that put that in your in your packet but aside from best use of the property I think it's second best use in terms of site planning again I trust that the city is going to do their diligence to make sure that everything is is where it is planned to be if I could ask the city questions and I think it's premature to do that I would ask some questions for example how much fill are the are the are the bases going to need for all these houses I've driven by it before I haven't walked their property but I know it's really low so that's a concern that I have lighting for the bike path it's going to be on the road side so I think there needs to be lighting because people are going to ride it in the night and it shouldn't interfere with people that are living on the north side of the of the creek I'm wondering about Wetland setbacks and flood plane setbacks and I'm looking at all the impervious surface on the flood plane with the with the driveway with the barn I have concerns about that but I also know that would be the time for it which now it's not but if these were designated R1 which it is now without having any variances how many homes could fit on this property and that's that's a key question I think that you're going to have to ask the city you're going to work with that so I look forward to hearing that in the next proposal if it comes to that and I hope it does in terms of building design I really like your idea Joshua about making each one unique because that is more like a neighborhood and people like to have their own special house you wouldn't go to one place to say well I live in unit 3 versus I live in the modern home versus The Farmhouse so personally I'm a huge fan of modern mid-century modern I like what you did with the minaka home so I'd encourage you to have a flat roof a gabled roof somewhere somehow to distinguish the houses from each other I think it's going to be good for the community Community it's going to be good for the people that are living there let's see massing it's pretty massive the way it is and it feels to me like you've stuffed as many houses as you could on the land that could be developed is that the right thing to do normal developments I would say no with h with memory care I don't know the jury's still out I could see the benefits of having as many people there I do like the idea of dementia Villages Memory Care Villages so to start at 4 it's not a bad thing generally then you heard my opinions I I wish it would be a park I hope it's going to be a park but if it can't be a park then I think this is going to be a really good use of the property great thank you commissioner Powers love to hear from you well thank you uh in 2060 I don't plan on being around but I guess a huge part of the population will be older um you know I don't know how we go [Music] from R1 to a business to Light commercial light industrial or whatever you want to call it if I if I go out and I bought up four homes on Rainbow Drive let's use Rainbow Drive as an example I bought up four homes on Rainbow Drive and then I came to the city and said you know I'd like to put in a dance studio here you know because young people need to learn how to dance or skate or you know color crayons whatever children need to be educated you know adults with dementia need to be cared for they're it's all in the equation it's all in the social equation would would the city let me turn it into a private pay business model on those three or four Lots um right in the middle of a residential area where it's and where it's already zoned R1 and I want to change the zoning to private pay so I struggle with this enormously whether this is a park or not a park if this piece of properties are one forgetting what the comprehensive plan asks it to become it's it's struggling to get that I'm struggling with how do you go from R1 to two three or four private pay locations for dementia care that's that's my big struggle on this uh regarding uh your idea Mr wart um I'd like you to having what I've just said you know you just take it into consideration I'm only one person and I won't even be here to vote on it when you uh bring It Forward um I would say develop your presentation more thoroughly and more honestly and you'll go further with it you've got everything that you need except you need to so like you say 1 to 18 versus 1 to two but then in a kind of an off-handed remark you say well it could be 1 to 10 it could be that's an average so your slide doesn't say it's an average of 1 to 18 or maybe it does maybe it does well highlight it in other words you know bring a little bit more honesty to your presentation I think a little less a little less salesmanship I think you'll go a lot farther with the city um I don't think 've never done this before going from going to a development of a property in with new construction so there's a lot to be learned I would suggest did you speak with Mr orfield uh at length quite bright very good guy I know him I've known him for very many since high school and you could you you won't do better than talking with him um so keep developing the idea and um I think it's interesting how you I like the fact that you um decided just to drive up to the front door and knock on the guy's front door and say can I talk to you that's very smart that's what you have to do you can't wait for the sign to go in the lawn the other thing is is that if you did want to do a dementia Village if there's such a thing uh let's show a real picture of one from somewhere else I I saw a concept of one there's a picture of a concept of a dementia Village a proposed for 15 in New York I believe it is it'd be nice to see some pictures of actual ones that are up and running and I can't tell you how to spend your money but I would certainly go visit somewhere soon and so you know exactly what you're talking about firsthand and not anecdotally so that that's what I would encourage you to do so keep it going and I now know where English Rose comes from because I drive down Interlocken to Blake and I've seen that name so many times and I've always wondered what is that and so now I know thank you thank you and just to clarify when commissioner power says he won't be here his term is up uh at the end of the month I hope the project doesn't take that long doesn't take to 2060 uh thank you commissioner Powers uh other comments commissioner Banks thanks chair um yeah Mr W thank you for the the presentation um really ightful um I think sentiment is pretty much the same at least amongst what we've heard so far um I'm sure amongst all of us um conceptually I think you know it it sounds great it looks great on paper uh in presentation um I think what you're trying to accomplish is Noble uh I do agree with commissioner about uh just the affordability aspect of it and if somehow you can work with the city to see if there's any options or see if the state has you know any funding grants or anything where at least you can provide uh this same great service to um you know a couple other uh people outside of your current uh scope um conceptu yeah looks great I I think in terms of this particular location I I do I do see you know some some challenges uh I'll start with the uh the site plan so in terms of you know you know being off of minona Boulevard you know if we say four residences and there's you know average of you know husband wife and two kids and a dog um this fits perfectly right but we're talking um 36 individuals and a lot of staff and deliveries and uh things coming in and out of of this this particular area so when I think of this site and I think of all of the potential traffic um the parking that you'll need uh coming in and off of motanka which you know it most residents wouldn't want to see this in their in their residence off of a colder sack but at the same time it feels like this would be the place for it but because of the volume of traffic that you're going to have going in and out um it I'm just concerned about you know uh traffic being blocked on motanka it's it's there's even now otonka right there uh very close to this facility or where you're you're looking uh there's a a speed sign and it's therefore for a reason um so that that's you know one concern that I would have and and to see how that would uh you're you're going to have you're going to need the the parking you're going to have the traffic uh just because of your model and I don't think there's much you can work with the city to alleviate that I think a perhaps a as you get into the details and you can really figure out what parking looks like um you know I would say if you think you you need parking for 15 cars double that just because of the nature of your business and it is a business um and as someone mentioned you will have deliveries and uh you know like you there there there'll just be a lot going on right and people coming and they're not staying long you know U families coming to visit maybe for an hour um someone coming to give a haircut you know so it's going to be a lot of traffic flow and so I would be concerned about that on in that particular area where um you know there's no traffic light unless you know the city would be willing to put one in or something something of that nature also in terms of U the the site the so you know we're and and I'm not you know I don't I don't know anyone with demena this the condition and you you know know about it hear about it read about it a lot um but I don't know firsthand but when I think of um 36 potential residents right um in this location the public access that you're allowing you're providing between one park to the other um you might have ways of keeping the residents in it sounds like they're not able to go out unless they're supervised and I'm just concerned if you have a way of keeping people out um you know to keep them safe while they're in their homes and you know without fences and and I'm glad you don't have fences in your concept but without that I I just I I I struggle with how they're safe and not able to get out and if they are able to get out you know it's there's a busy road there's a a creek on the back um there's a park where they might go get lost um and then also you know if you have you know people able to use the facility like the barn or people who are passing through because of the the trails uh how are you going to make sure that the residents are safe as well so from a site plan perspective those are the two things that I would want to see um as you as you you know put more meat into this uh building design I think some of the pictures you've shown and and the home that you uh renovated in minetonka um is great I have no I I think I would prefer I sell the the the building with the L shape the white building with the L shape and I understand that's just for placing on in your in your um your design but I would hope that it's not going to be that right it looks looks more like the ones that you've renovated and some of other homes you showed um but again I think we all can agree if they if each home slightly looks different uh that would that would be ideal uh let's see and then uh so and then also the in terms of the natural resources you know I think I would have liked to have seen you do a little bit more work with the city before this concept um we we see an overlay on the the flood plane but I've heard you mention you know it might be four um single level homes you might have to go to six um twostory homes it sounds like there's a lot of flux in there that will be based off of the research you do and the information you get from the city and I think I would have rather you've done more of that so we can see and understand more of what this really will be uh in the future uh but with that um I think you know you you have your your work set out for you in terms of flood planes and setbacks and things of that nature and ideally like you I would hope that it could remain for a single level when you do bring this before us um but again that'll depend on you know how how well um you work with the city on that so okay thank you great thank you other comments yeah commissioner Henry have another comment well I do one question and one comment thanks for letting me jump back in too one question for for the city in its current form could the current R1 zoning be kept uh chair commissioner Henry there might be a possibility for that uh we haven't there's certainly enough lot area to do that um the question is the the buildable uh footprint for uh each of the home sites does it meet 3500 Square ft um we haven't done any analysis on that to know if that's um could be kept with what's proposed certainly that first building where the flood plane mitigation was going to happen um that looked like that would be an issue on that but could it be reconfigured don't know thanks that was just to piggyback on what commissioner power is some of his concerns to so if it is R1 it sounds like conceptually you could potentially still have this function of of memory care and keep R1 okay thanks and then one other suggestion for the developer I'm more of a glass half full and another fun idea I don't know the practicality of it either but I do like the idea of bringing the public in to show people what a Memory Care Facility looks like and one way to do that could be to make the houses carbon neutral super insulated uh look up if you haven't seen it before about architecturally there's a passive house where it doesn't even need furnace so it's so well insulated and a lot of people don't know about that so it could be a good way to bring people in show them about Energy Efficiency and talk about memory care facilities at the same time thanks great thank you any other comments commissioner Waterman thanks um picking backing on a lot of what the other Commissioners have said I I mean I think this is a good idea and I see the value and not everything with uh dementia care being institutional or a single family home and certainly inspired by what you've done I remember reading that article in the St tribut months ago I'm like oh yeah that that's a great that's a great thing how cool so it's really it's fun to see you here tonight presenting in motanka um no particular order I mean regarding the design I I don't have a strong opinion on the uniformity of the homes uh kind of appreciate the neighborhood input uh you know sure you know different styles I do like the idea of single level but that's not necessarily essential um getting into land use uh just I I think that um a dementia care facility like this and Care Facilities generally may be easier when we're talking about putting them in minona may be easier than at a site like this where you can get some um uh some scale rather than when we've seen these come through in neighborhoods where um you know there's there's just direct their neighbors that are directly impacted this is a little bit unique in that you have a single R1 lot and it's really just surrounded by Parkland um so that has some legs I think it's an interesting option to have the trail cut through I think that that provides a certain amount of public benefit because I mean in my view um I I see I I really well let me talk about zoning then I'll get back to the trail I I do struggle with rezoning generally especially when it's not surrounded by by similar uses so if on either side you have Parkland and then we're talking about doing something with this specific lot other than Parkland I I struggle with that and in addition with the comp plan kind of indicating that the the preference this would be Parkland um so you know I I put a lot of weight on the comp plan of course with an eye towards there's a property owner and that property owner should be able to do something with that uh property um and I almost kind of agree with what commissioner Henry said where you know I think in my view the best use of the site would be a park but this has some potential to be the second best use bringing it back to that trail concept I think that if it's not going to be a R1 single family home a single one on there and we're talking about some sort of subdivision I I really think that there has to be some sort of Trail cut through now whether this is the right Trail I I would prefer to see it moved a little bit further away I do if we're talking about these as single family homes I think kind of what commissioner Banks was talking about in terms of safety for the residents like if you're going to have people kind of cutting through with some frequency and I think that the trail system does get used maybe bringing it a little bit further away or further protecting those homes is a good idea um so overall I I think it's very interesting on the flip side I think environmentally and with regard to our ordinances I think this is going to be a really challenging project to develop uh with the intensity that is uh envisioned with the four buildings additional ovious surface the parking considerations the trees um so that's not a no it's just sort of when for me I've really struggled when a project comes forward asking for a lot of variances usually I I'm not in favor of those um but uh but like I said I you know could be something to consider if there's if there's something to move forward with I just I think this is going to be a real challenge when when you really see the details and look at all those real considerations on the site understood there's not a lot of developable land in minona and it sounds like you really want a larger property wish I had one to to show you tonight but I think you know go to got to keep that in mind that like great concept this might not be the right site but definitely not a no from from my persp perspective great thank you any other comments commission commissioner Maxwell I'd love to hear from you yeah I agree um I like the way you said it commissioner Henry that this would be the second best use for this land that Parkland makes a lot of sense um and that's why I'd like to hear more um if this comes forward as a formal proposal from the staff around what's the history of that interaction with why why do we think that that's not an option in order to make that Rec recommendation whether or not a comp plan Amendment would be appropriate um as far as this uh R an R1 use I think makes sense it's already an R1 to have residents there I can't argue with that but in terms of the the density right right now there's one house there um and this is a significant increase in density and I'm thinking particularly about the increase in impervious surface in this Wetland area and so close to the creek um we've already talked a little bit about parking that the parking demand here may need to be higher than what you've mocked up here and that would be even more impervious surface so that would be something that you have to consider carefully what what is happening with all the runoff uh from that impervious surface um and I think the um the Watershed District minihaha Creek Watershed district will be um helpful in establishing that and they you certainly have to follow their their uh regulations but working with them earlier rather than later would be uh um helpful uh the rest of the uh items I I think for the the trail connection is a a unique um public impact here I like what you mentioned about this potentially being a single owner so you can get that continuity across this entire site rather than if it were to be a an R1 subdivision having different owners for each property then uh that'd be more less less continuous more uh disjointed through there I kind of like the idea of having the the walk or through paths being on the um Creek Side I don't know you said the neighbors disagree with that the reason I think on the North side makes sense is because we've talked about traffic you've got to Loop the way it is right now a loop coming through and if you're going to have people driving back and forth I'm picturing you know my kids on their bikes whipping down there and it just seems like it'd be a safer um for the public uh on the other side um I'm not particularly concerned about the safety of the residents having um people walking by on the paths I I see it similarly people walking by the street in front of my house in my neighborhood or walking on the sidewalk uh in any any neighborhood and your doors can be locked and I don't see that really as a concern from my perspective um and then um we we've also talked about whe what would an what would an R1 look like here how many houses could we get um potentially rezoning to a PUD I think the trail connection could be a potential public good there but I think it would be worth exploring whether I think it'd be probably at the city council level or potentially at the edac level whether there's any way we could have affordability as the public good tied to approval here which you know in a PUD we would do that if it's a multifam housing we can do that and so can we call this multifamily housing or not so I think that's something that maybe weak is not in our purview but something that city council edac could explore great thank you any other final comments from Commissioners otherwise I will go and wrap uh wrap us up so uh I'm a little bit more bullish on this proposal I I like it um I I like the kind of theme of it's definitely the second best use of this uh of this property in fact I think R1 is the wrong zoning if you look at everything around it this it makes no sense that there's a househ so that's why it's kind of like an island already so I I think this is a great way to tie in more of the community I think um the devil will be in the details so that I agree that there's going to be challenges so brace yourself for the first meeting you have with the with the engineer I think it but at the same time don't if there is a variance or to required don't be scared to have the conversation with City staff because we approve variances all the time as long as they're reasonable but I agree with commissioner Waterman if it's you know a list this long of all these variances needed then it's probably not going to work but at the same time if it's reasonable if we're not too far off don't be afraid to to request that um going back to kind of some of the devils in the in the details and I know this is just a concept but I would want you to work closely with staff have to think um pragmatically about the traffic flow both of cars and also of pedestrians and bicyclists if we're going to have uh the trail come through there what's the best place for it how does it interact with cars coming and going um I know in the past the county this is a county road if I'm not mistaken um the county is not like multiple curb cuts for one property so you may have to do some sort of loop or culdesac of of some type I don't know what would look like but I have a feeling that will probably be um kind of table stakes in order to to make this uh work I do think parking is going to be a bigger issue than than we than we think um so we'll want to be thoughtful with that do we have the staff in the garages and then you have other parking available or however you need to manage that but um that will be definitely a thing also the I love the idea of the concept of the barn or some sort of central whether it's maybe a gazebo or something else where you can have interaction with the public but just be thoughtful with that because I would hate for I wouldn't hate but it would be challenging if it was such a wonderful draw that you have people driving in and trying to park in there to attend whatever smoothie or movie or whatever public good well well intention may cause more headache than it's worth so just want to be thoughtful with how that interacts with the public but that's a detail number 632 you'll have to work through um the other other thing is just as I think about the other alternatives to what could go there I definitely think this is Far and Away much better I just hope that um the uh the practicalities of it and some of the uh variances aren't too numerous and uh grave that it can't happen so I hope uh I hope it comes hope it comes through and uh I I like the like the concept so everything else is just taste and details and can get worked out but partner really well with the staff they're great they'll help guide you the right direction so any other final comments from Commissioners doesn't look like it so uh good luck with this uh you've got a a lot of work ahead of you potentially but uh hopefully it's uh it's worthwhile so um we will move on to item number 10 would someone like to make a motion to adjourn I'll make that motion motion Waterman I'll second second Banks all those in favor signifi by saying I I I motion carries we are adjourned good night [Music] [Music]