This transcript appears to be from a City Council meeting in **White Bear Lake, Minnesota**. Based on the context provided, the speakers include the **Mayor**, **Police Chief Julie Swanson**, **Community Development Director Jason Lindahl**, **Finance Director Kerri Kinsbutter**, **City Manager Lindy Crawford**, and **Councilmembers Edberg, Walsh, and Jones**. *** **[00:00] Mayor:** Rather than just procedural depending requested Roberts it's a majority of that just counts the chair is in doubted um we're going to call the meeting to order the clerk will note those in attendance thank you please join me in the Pledge of Allegiance under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all thank you all right let's jump right into item two approval of the minutes I noted there was one correction on page one the second to last third to the last sentence or line rather at the end of it it just stops at the word more I think it's supposed to say more discussion period so with that correction I'd entertain a motion to approve the minutes I've motion a second all those in favor of approving the minute say aye any opposed motion carries him its pass moving on to item 2B minutes of the regular work session from October 18 2022 entertain a motion to approve those minutes Motion in a second all those in favor say aye all right any opposed motion carries immense pass moving on to adoption of the agenda I'll just make make one note regarding there are two four F's and the first four F should be four e in the packet and the second four F is the correct 4f so other than that notation I'd entertain a motion to adopt the agenda move to approve I have a motion a second all those in favor of adopting the agenda say aye aye any opposed we have an agenda moving on to item four consent agenda uh I'd entertain a motion to adopt the consent agenda so I'll move second the motion a second all those in favor say aye aye any opposed consent agenda is adopted jumping into item five a the bi-annual Police Department report chief Step Up. **[01:15] Chief Julie Swanson:** mayor and Council thank you for having me tonight we are here for our second report of the year and I know that you have a very late agenda so we're not going to keep you here very long so it's much shorter than it was in the spring but if you have questions please don't hesitate to stop me in the middle of it or ask at the end or if need be you can ask me in the coming weeks also so this Slide the first slide is our Police Department staff and it's a little bit of a repeat from our spring update but it was just more serving as a reminder to you what we have for staff or what we're supposed to have for staff because as others are in the state of Minnesota we are in a staffing law or I don't want to call it a crisis but it is definitely down so we have the police chief two captains four surgeons and then typically 18 Patrol officers assigned to regular Patrol and then that in addition we have four investigators and two school resource officers and then obviously we have our administrative staff and community service officers so we are authorized for a strength of 31. we are at 30 if starting next Monday we because we do have a new officer starting on Monday but we have a couple out on Medicals and when we have the two in training there is just a significant strain on patrol because there is a um there you know we're not quite as full strength currently the vacancies are on our regular daily Patrol but hopefully we'll see that sway I think what our biggest change is is that when we have recruited in the past it's usually only been for one position and we're currently just in a cycle of doing it but we're getting really good at it and we've gotten some great candidates so um ponvilli started at the end of September and then William will start on Monday and both will come before you next month for their swearing-in ceremonies so we currently have one additional vacancy and we posted that position today and hope to have somebody on on hired in December um but we will not have them in time to bring them back for the swearing-in ceremony so you want to move this light I don't have the clicker so just some of our community engagement events a lot of them were the same um but we definitely were down during covet we didn't do anything really in 2021 and we slowly ticked back up and we are definitely at pre-pandemic levels for that so we did a lot of our regular things donuts with the cops at the farmer's market floats with the fuzz at tallies and a couple of you were there for that our bigger ones are safety Camp which was held in August and we had 60 kids participate in an all-day safety camp and then National Night Out we had roughly 50 parties that we attended and some of you attended as well and coming up we well we've now are currently in our coffee with the cop and seniors there's a lot of coffee and donuts in the fall with our seniors we just did that at Pioneer Manor and the waters so just uh like I said a lot of the activities are the same as they've been we're always looking for new ones and we stay very very busy with that and Christmas is no exception so the most recent we did was the Fire Department open house and then I always forget the High School homecoming parade but it isn't that big it's nothing like the manitow Days parade but it still does take some resources and if anybody is in downtown at that time there's a lot of kids without parents and so we are stretched a little thin for just a couple of hours so you can move the slide we talked about training in the spring but I put this slide back up here because I wanted you just to be aware of the training that we've done I know that in the weekly updates you've seen some training videos some training photos we obviously have to train um every four year or every four year cycle of our post license we still have to put in 48 hours of continuing it every three years 48 hours Barbara Schneider Foundation everybody's been trained in it it was just a recertification we the bigger one that we did that I know we shared with you was we did the team arrest and control Concepts which is training to do two or three people to make an arrest to try to minimize injury to the suspect injury to the officers and just manage it a little bit safer and then as part of that training we also did active shooter training before school started at one of our schools the school district is very kind about letting us use their school I mean the school had construction going on they're getting ready to start back to school this was in August and they were willing to share it with us but it was very effective training I think we concluded a video but if you didn't get to listen to it the the training officers do a great job they piped in mute or they piped in screaming and kids yelling and music just to kind of offer that distraction in the re reality of it and then they trained a couple of different scenarios and I have to say we couldn't do it without our cert team members they're in a future slide but our cert team is our community emergency response team and they really their goal is to or their their mission is to help us in Emergency Management situations but they are such active volunteers that they tend to be role players and they're a little bit different than the police reserves because they're you know people with regular jobs regular lives a little bit older and they are great role players because it's very authentic when the officers are going through it um and they were our role players that day and then we have monthly roll call training so there really is a roll call every shift in the morning and at night just like you might suspect and we monthly will train on arrest Concepts taser mace just you know escort holds and different things so that we're constantly in that training cycle and we accomplish what's required in that first line every year and then obviously we have shooting four times a year and we have a Communications training coming up next week with the fire department um something that's new uh is we have always had the Community Advocate Program for the last couple of years that is our shared mental health worker that we share with Roseville North St Paul New Brighton and Saint Anthony police but we the position kind of was a little bit stagnant with covid because it made it harder for them to work and then that person left so that there was a vacancy at the Northeast Youth and Family Services of that position and a new person started this past week Joshua Grant and he's already off and running we have had a couple of cases that we've been pending for a few weeks and saving up and he's already tackling them so if you remember that's the shared caseworker when we have our frequent calls for service to certain people or certain houses they don't always want to talk to the police and that person can sometimes be that liaison so they don't obviously a goal before us they come after us as a referral and we've used them for people in crisis people suffering from mental health down to dementia patients who keep leaving their home and the family hasn't maybe put them into an assisted facility so there's a lot of variety for that person and we're happy to have them because they tend to have more success than we do sometimes with these frequent calls and they know the system better you know Ramsey County Crisis is there but as you can imagine and it was a reminder today when you all got that Alert on your phone there are a lot of people in crisis and there are a lot of mental health calls so they're overrun with it and this is just another opportunity for us to try to help families and not have it be that uniform that's trying to work with them so we can go to the next slide and then the other big thing and this came before you at the last council meeting but we have a new mental health officer Wellness consulting or consultant he started officially last week with us and he will actually be in the police department tomorrow his name is Jonathan bunt and I'm very excited about him I got to utilize or I got to meet him and see him in action in the spring when Roseville had their officer involved shooting because he is a consultant for them as well and I have kids that work for Roseville and I got to see him interact with the different officers and a little bit with my own kids who are on both different ends of probably how they would respond to somebody like that and he nailed it with both of them so I was very impressed with his services and just the Rapport that he had with the officers so we're very excited to have him I know the police officers are very excited to have him as is fire and he's going to hit the ground running tomorrow and join us just for a roll call in the morning so it's very exciting and so thank you for helping see that through for us because I think it's key and it's certainly something that we like to present to our new officers or our candidates that we have things like the building going on or the officer Wellness or just different training opportunities those things all come into play when trying to recruit so thank you and then just some of our continued partnerships that haven't changed and you're seeing a few of those joint Powers agreements coming before you but we have the violent crime enforcement task force which is also kind of known as the drug task force we have one member on that we currently have two members on the SWAT team and one SWAT negotiator we have one person on mobile Field Force that's our bike officer who is typically deployed when there's large Gatherings protests riots and he's on a bike and he's on a joint Ramsey County team and then obviously we still use the BCA in a big partnership with the other Ramsey County Suburban police departments so here's uh what most people are interested in are calls for service and this is for the year so I provided you some in the spring that were for 2021 this is what we have to date for 2022. so so far we're at 17 500 calls which is actually kind of low um I think it's low because we have less officers working for the last couple of months we kind of had the covet thing still going on so people were still calling us a little bit less and our with our fire department being fully staffed or more fully staffed than they've been in the years past the officers aren't going on all of the Medicals they go on some but not all they kind of gauge what the call is before they'll go and so I think that that is the reason for the calls being down I would suspect we're going to end about 22 000 calls or maybe 21 000 calls but in the height of it we have had as many as 28 000 so it's um but nothing like nearly like that in the last three years and then just as a reminder we provide services to the city of Gem Lake also so the calls for service to date the person's in crisis that is uh it is what it is is when the person is in crisis but there isn't another crime that's occurred like there isn't a domestic that's gone along with it they're um they're not being cited for something so it's 178 calls this year and I would guess we have one a day um and there are a lot of repeat people for that but that is pretty steady for what was last year domestics were at 109 that's slightly up um in that uh again is family related or um significant relationship with somebody else and most of those include an arrest the disorderly persons are the things such as um maybe leaving a bar and being loud or being on the center median panhandling things like that and then the motor vehicle thefts that was that is up definitely and you've seen that in your weekly calls for service we kind of had a little bit of a spike at some fitness centers but I would say that that has dropped back off there was a couple last week but it was all related to One Call and then assaults is or thefts from Otto is almost a hundred and that also is probably pretty consistent and you see those in your weekly updates and a lot of them are catalytic converters but for as many catalytic converter thefts that we have we have people stealing purses bags anything that they can see in a car assaults is pretty uh pretty even from the years past and just as a reminder the assaults of 63 calls is not domestic assaults so those are maybe two friends fighting somebody if they were randomly walking down the street and got assaulted which does not happen very often but has occasionally happened that's what an assault is categorized as we had 17 overdoses 14 were not fatal and three were fatal which is exactly about where it was last year and just as a reminder we do carry Narcan and they use it quite often um which at night I think we'd have 17 fatals if we didn't have Narcan so I am happy that we're able to do that that's been only about a year and a half that we've been doing that and then the bigger one is the traffic stops so far in 2022 we've made 3038 traffic stops 1800 of them got warnings 12 or 1100 were citations and then 73 of them were DWI arrests and um there has been a little bit of an uptick in crashes with DWIs so the DWIs is pretty pretty average for what we've had the last few years our bars are not open like they used to be and I was at downtown a couple weeks ago on a Saturday night and one of our very popular bars was their last call was at 9 30 on a Saturday night so that's why I'm sure our DWIs are down um and then all of our data is published to the City website and then um just I kept the slide in there about the Civil Service Commission just to talk a little bit about the hiring so as you know that we have that established in Charter they oversee the employment promotion discharge of officers and really what their the service that they've provided basically in the eight and a half years that I've been the chief is to oversee our hiring processes and there were sometimes I never would see them in the year now I see them every month so they're very very busy and active we have met three times in the last few months to start hiring processes so we meet with them to explain the hiring process then we do the hiring process and then we bring the list back to them to show where everybody ranked and just to keep the integrity and transparency into the process and they certify the list and then we start hiring from that and you got to be quick right now because you can have a list and in a week it's not valid anymore so you if there's somebody on there you get to grab them and get them on board and again it's the three members that are appointed by the mayor and then just our volunteer groups have all picked up their activities again we are currently at 15 reserves and they volunteer about 2 000 hours a year and they there's something new for us it was done back in the day but we have a couple of young officers that to train them in a little bit quicker put them through at a Reserve Academy in September so they were able to provide training to everybody at once for a couple of weeks and then had a little party for them at the end but that sped up the height or the training process for them because we were down to like five or six Reserves at that point and again the reserves are a great feeder process into our CSO program and also into becoming officers I uh was explaining to one the new officer that's starting next week about one of the shifts and I'm like oh they you know what they all worked here at one point they were all either reserves or csos so one of our night shifts basically everybody worked here before they or volunteered here before they were an officer uh the cert team we held an academy in April and got some new members and I've talked a little bit about their involvement but they're there to help us with absolutely anything that we need whether it be a search for evidence or um Staffing the green tents at Market Fest they just are a huge help to us Triad is our senior citizen group they meet monthly and it's a joint partnership with the sheriff's department and the senior center in White Bear Lake PD they're also very involved and they are pretty excited at this time of year because they get ready for Christmas and have a little Christmas lunch for police and fire which is a lot of fun and then our citizens Police Academy is in its fourth week and their did traffic stops this week and it's a great group there's about 12 of them and it's pretty fun to watch them go through it and get to learn about the police department that's changed a little bit this year Sergeant Tuma is overseeing it and he did a great job of include shooting almost every member of the police department to provide some sort of instruction to the citizens Police Academy so they get to meet everybody at some point which is a lot of fun and that's it. **[13:45] Mayor:** thank you Chief thank you I don't know if anybody's got questions I have one quick question and then I'll open up to the council so of the 80 vehicle thefts that we've had have any of them been where the victim was present or so-called carjacking. **[14:05] Chief Julie Swanson:** no not that I can remember um no I don't think so okay so um most of ours have been that somebody's keys were taken from a locker at a gym or they left their car running or they've just simply been stolen because they were Hyundai's or Kias but not that there haven't been any carjackings that I can think of so there might have been there's one that I'm thinking that they might have been present but not in the car. **[14:35] Mayor:** okay like in an apartment parking lot what are the of the things you hear on the news of actual carjackings were at least Lucky in that regard where it's a property crime and not a potentially dangerous situation that would be helpful thank you Council any questions for chief Swanson councilmember Edberg. **[14:55] Councilmember Edberg:** thank you Mr Mayor Chief I've got two um so I'm looking at your data and 17 500 calls year to date um roughly uh 450 a week or about 7 60 calls a day um that's I'm trying to picture what 60 calls a day looks like um diving down a little deeper you gave us a breakdown of domestics and other assaults and and totaled about a thousand and then the traffic stops were about 3 000 but there's still another 13 000 out there somewhere what's the other 13 000 calls for service. **[15:30] Chief Julie Swanson:** well a lot of them are are like self-initiated field activity so um they're called proactive police patrol so they're going through a park or they're going through an apartment complex parking lot there's a lot of assist citizens where people just have a question for the police there's frauds thefts so there's you know theft from vehicles but then there's thefts like theft from a bank account theft from their mailbox you're starting to see it in the last few weeks more of the charges that are coming from these cases because I've been able to track them a little bit easier but our biggest calls for service are thefts like damage to property assist citizens Medicals and then um just you know like I said random calls not too many significant I mean I would say that we have a low level of significant calls I mean there's some big ones and they take up a lot of resources and a lot of time but that's not the norm every day but you know our day shift is probably busier than the night shift but the night shift has more intense calls at times I mean although I'm not saying day shift doesn't because they sure do but um there's also a little bit more resources during the day even though all of the shifts are running a little bit short there's more resources because our school resource officers are here our investigators are here in admins here. **[16:55] Councilmember Edberg:** so my second question tries to put some of that in context in the current environment that we're in there is we're in political season folks are talking about violent crime about um increases in I look at the data that you presented how fearful should we be my I'm looking at the numbers that you have provided Us in the past and I don't know that we are a violent city I don't know that those ways the carjacking conversation that the mayor just asked about um Etc what what's your perspective what's the message to our community about how safe is our community and and what's going on out there. **[17:35] Chief Julie Swanson:** I would say we're still a very safe Community um you know yes there's our surrounding suburbs have significant calls and like I said we've seen some significant calls people just need to be aware of their surroundings but at the same time it's a very safe Community my own parents live in the community I don't worry about them I don't worry about them going out at night I will say to them don't go to a shopping mall at night and not pay attention to what you're doing because that is where those things occur well we don't have the large retail we don't have you know those areas that have driven you know drawn people of the violent crime um but it's not to say that you you can be lacks about it either you have to be cognizant because we've seen an increase in crime that we've never seen before but I feel like white bear is still very safe I live here my family lives here here and I'm not worried about it and we have great community members I think that pay attention to what's going on as well and they let us know when those things are happening. **[18:40] Mayor:** and okay thank you councilman Walsh. **[18:45] Councilmember Walsh:** thank you Mr Mayor so I want to talk about the community advocate position again um we had a long discussion about this the other night talking about ambulance calls and things like that so they're they're they're still reactive from what it sounds like so correct we got some talking actually maybe moving towards something but we'll bring it up again you know when do we get to the point or would it work or what are your thoughts on uh proactive work you you mentioned persons in crisis 173 or so-called and a lot of them are repeats so the crisis happens on Friday night at 10 o'clock at night you know what about sending somebody over there Tuesday afternoon you know how's it going you know are you connected to services are you keeping up on meds what's going on I mean is that possible with this position do we need more time from them do we need a full-time position maybe for a community advocate to what are your thoughts on that. **[19:40] Chief Julie Swanson:** um I would say yep it's reactive for the sake that that's how we identify people but it is proactive to a degree also because we have identified those people then they are meeting with them more regularly because they don't meet just because of the one call they will meet with them regularly until like services are attained and it it's very um ironic but as soon as one problem is solved another one crops up and it's and it's a lot of it's very cyclical where somebody will be not needing police services and then the next minute um they're gone for a while and then the next person comes in so it is reactive to the sense that we have to identify it first but they are being proactive and that is reducing our calls for service and our interactions with them and I know it's keeping people safer I mean for me when this was presented it was the former Roseville Chief who presented it we had one specific Community member that we were dealing with regularly and they would confront police we knew who they were but at one point he confronted two Troopers in a parking lot and he sold lucky he didn't get shot because they were like talking car to car and he walked right between them them and kind of came out of nowhere and so when this this idea was formulated I thought that's exactly what we need it for and we haven't dealt with him in a long time so it was successful uh it has been successful it's just I and then answer to your question about needing someone full-time for sure we do like at some point we definitely need to consider that I think there's a lot of resources that need to be you know done throughout the city but that should be something on the minds but it also needs to be thought out and you know well thought out so that it's successful because otherwise I think you just kind of spin your wheels and. **[21:30] Councilmember Walsh:** so to be clear so there's a reactive beginning but you're saying that the visits are happening when there's time on a Tuesday afternoon when things are calm so there is some follow-up once and like following up with their therapists or following up with the courts we have another one that we're working with within the community um so we're following up with the prosecutor's office to see where that individual is at in their in their mental health evaluation so there is a lot of proactivity too. **[22:00] Councilmember Walsh:** I got to believe at some point it's cost effective I mean and and I'm the last guy that wants to spend more money or add people because people cost a lot of money in this business but with with both those calls and ambulance calls it's Gotta you got the math has got to work on this we ought to keep looking at this because I got to believe proactive stuff on the front is going to cut down calls and calls are expensive calls are because for you and they're more expensive for that ambulance so for sure. **[22:30] Chief Julie Swanson:** you know Roseville for example they are the ones that initiated this among the suburbs and they do utilize that Community Advocate but they have another um full-time mental health person that works with homelessness and other activities but there's just there is a need but again like I said I think it needs to be well thought out and planned before put into place so that it's not set up for failure. **[22:55] Mayor:** there's a couple follow-ups to that so what if how would you describe when you have these kind of repeat citizens in the community that are just frequent contacts frequent calls do you feel like that hinders the ability for law enforcement to be able to take other calls is are you able to manage it I'm trying to get a sense for you know I have in my head while we've we're going to this house for the third time today meanwhile someone really needs help and we're our resources are spent here is that have we reached critical mass with that yet to kind of to Bill's point. **[23:30] Chief Julie Swanson:** no I don't think so I mean you know calls are prioritized and as long as they're not out of control the calls can be prioritized and you know more pressing thing can take place and we do have enough people to respond and um I'm not saying that it might not get to that point and there are times when it's critical but not on a regular basis. **[23:55] Mayor:** um so my other question is so we we know we've identified certain people in the community and they're they're repeat calls and law enforcement is diligently showing up because that's that's your job what solves it is it a person getting back on their medication are they being incarcerated do they die and without Ingram and what it ends at some point what what do you think ends of that frequent contact. **[24:25] Chief Julie Swanson:** all those things I mean it's uh I think it's the most common thing to end it is usually somebody going back on their medication or going back into therapy or getting help like additional help the goal behind this program is to not put people in jail and you know the jails are full they are completely full not taking misdemeanors and not taking out a County Warrants because they're so full and that's not our goal you know that's why we have the community advocate because we don't want to incarcerate people that have mental health issues unless it becomes significant and again you I mean you heard about it today it happened in another community and we don't want that to happen but um I the the the usually the success is the medication treatment and follow-up with a therapist but other you know there are other things that sometimes come into play sometimes they just leave the community for a while or they go and they get put into a hospital for a while and then they come back and sometimes they're great and sometimes they're great for a while and then things happen again. **[25:35] Mayor:** sure so I guess my ask would be to come full circle on both those questions I'd be particularly interested to know when does it reach critical mass where it is like wow our resources have gotten to a Tipping Point where other more classic law enforcement calls are being not neglected but suffering in response time as a result of that and then if it is really the contact of getting back on their medication seeing their therapist if that's sort of the secret sauce maybe a position like that can sort of fill that void so that we we have better resources so again that that'd be my ass is just keep us plugged in to if and when we get to that Tipping Point because I wouldn't be opposed to that I think you're right there might be there might be an economic argument for why that actually makes more sense it's not just a drain on the city's budget let's just hire another employee there's a way to ask actually for to make sense. **[26:30] Chief Julie Swanson:** for sure and I think that I think it is you know something to certainly put on the front burner but don't forget that the police probably still have to go you know what I mean like they they're not police officers and so at some point it's still going to bring in police but that's okay sure because um you know that that connection might be made a little sooner than what the connections being made with a community advocate at Northeast Youth and Family Services because because we're sharing them and you know they have other caseloads so um and there's a lot to be said when the person's right in your building and there's communication with them on a daily basis and they're going on the calls with the officers I mean they can do that but I think the reality is we'd probably never leave them alone anyways but again there's a purpose to be served sure so definitely we'll keep you posted. **[27:25] Councilmember Edberg:** thank you mayor so expanding on the mayor's request I know that our police forces authorized for 31 sworn officers I'm trying to remember how many months of the last oh I don't know 24 when we've actually had 31 officers um in place on the job it just okay this is not a statisticianal kind of review but reflecting on folks that are out for health reasons folks that are transitioning to new employment etc etc my sense is that we Norm we don't have an effective force of 31 and it's probably in the high 20s most weeks am I crazy in that. **[28:05] Chief Julie Swanson:** no I've been Chief eight and a half years and we probably haven't been full strength more than a couple of times it's just I don't know it's the it's the nature of the job we for sure have had um you know people out and when they're out on a medical we can't replace them because obviously we're working for them to get better but it's not unusual and now it's just not going to happen because there's 170 job postings on the postboard website today and some of them are looking for 200 police officers but there's roughly 120 coming out of school every semester so we're not going to catch up but it's going to take a while I guess. **[28:50] Councilmember Edberg:** so expanding on the mayor's request it's I'm sensitive to you know do we need to at a future time when do we need to look at some changes in how we staff and how many we allocate and I don't know that it's time at the moment you I'm not hearing you um stamp your feet and pound on the podium and say we need blah blah fill in the blank but I wouldn't my sense is that we might there are days when we're not far from that and so it's like I think that's a dynamic that we as a council should be aware of obviously Senate manager you you are the one that has to balance all of that stuff but I don't hear our community saying we want less um and I don't know that we are making the job easier for those that are in that are doing the job so it's like hmm I don't know I look to wiser people than myself to try and come back with the discussion on what that looks like probably a discussion for longer than today. **[29:45] Chief Julie Swanson:** yep but when you talk about the job being easier no it's not an easy job but I will say the city and the council and the administration have done a great job of equipping officers giving them the appropriate equipment the Mental Health Resources the support I mean they feel very supported by the council so those things are great obviously everybody would love to have more help no matter what job you're in everybody needs more help so we would certainly never turn that down but I don't want to underestimate that they the support and the opportunities that are given to us I mean we feel very supported by our community by the council by the city and we have great equipment and we're looking towards that in the future here as well so thank you for that thank you. **[30:30] Councilmember Walsh:** sorry just two more things I'm sorry I just this is a great topic and just first of all I didn't I don't I don't want to portray this uh the community advocate position as a fiscal thing it is a fiscal thing I'm saying we can make it cost effective but I like to think of this as you know we're not a very big town we got 25 000 people 24 to 800 of us don't need much help and we're doing okay about 200 or whatever the number is you know from the you know persons in crisis or ambulance rights need extra help from the rest of us and so if we can be proactive and provide that better care as a community that's kind of the goal and then I think the judge of our system we're just reacting and showing up on crisis that's not good for them and it's not good for us so that's I didn't want to come across it oh we got to save money the other thing just a quick uh just a quick customer service uh um uh good story I I heard a very long story about a confrontation between dogs and then that subsequent a conversation a confrontation between uh humans uh and then a white bear police officer having to adjudicate that and nothing but good about the the job I don't know who the officer was but nothing but good about the officer in the situation because it was nuts and they were just like look you know go to your corners and so very split your dogs well very very good customer service and good report from one of the parties who was very upset but said that our guy did really well so some good feedback I I unfortunately I can't tell you who it was but let me share with everybody thank you. **[32:20] Mayor:** all right Chief thank you thorough report appreciate it great thank you all right moving on to item 5B quarterly Community Development report Mr lindahl. **[32:30] Jason Lindahl:** mayor members of the council as you just stated what we have before us here tonight is the third quarter Community Development report so we're talking about the periods of August excuse me July August and September um the item in your packet includes specific data from the zoning activities and cases building permit data and code enforcement activities um I'm happy to discuss or answer any questions regarding any of them but I guess it's just as far as things I would highlight for you um this kind of I'm sure this has been uh this will be no surprise to the council and that the city managers have been talking about um building permit activity in our department for some time here now and really the the Highlight I would say is the the increase in roofing permits and that the activity that's resulted in um in the in our building department just to give you um some quick inside the numbers so this wasn't really in your in your report but just to give you some sense of how the building perm or excuse me the roofing permits come out of the building permit data that you see there for a third quarter in White Bear Lake alone remember we do matamidi in addition so third quarter White Bear Lake alone uh last year we had 200 and or excuse me 131 roofing permits this year we had 696 roofing permits in the third quarter a year to date in White Bear Lake uh last year we had 256 permits this year we had 895 roofing permits and by comparison matamidai uh year-to-date 2021 49 roofing permits year to date 2022 874 roofing permits so um that's really been um the focus of a lot of attention a lot of resources in our billing department also being down a staff member you know we've we've really worked hard to try to um job you know cross-train job share have backup with people and so we're trying to stay on top of this and you know maintain the level of service that the community has been used to from our department in the city um with again that's just the highlights I'd be happy to answer any questions that the council may have. **[34:55] Councilmember Edberg:** Council any questions one comment one question um I'll throw the question and you can answer that later so we are seeing a reduced level of permits coming as the way the school construction and other things now we've had the rules this create a financial challenge for us do we are we did we accurately project what our revenues might be are we how are we playing and does any of that materially affect our uh our Revenue projections so comment was I would appreciate a bulleted cover Memo from you pointing us to what we should be looking at in in the several Pages worth of data uh not a whole lot of narrative but it's like you have a sense of context for you and your colleagues your staff have a sense of context for the numbers that I'm not I don't feel confident that I have so pointers to hear things that we are concerned about here are things that we are yeah or it's just news whatever anyway I welcome that kind of perspective. **[36:00] Jason Lindahl:** mayor members of the council I'll start with your second comment first that's that's actually very helpful to me um I I it's good to hear feedback from me from the council as we present this to you so we know kind of what interests you what what focus and focus you'd like us to have for you so please keep those questions coming and I can certainly try to make sure I pull out um some more kind of high level highlights as as we prepare future reports for you and I forgot walked over my appreciation for the amount of time the detail that is provided the effort that goes into capturing data this is more comprehensive than I recall receiving in Prior years so this is like two steps up so thank you for that and it kind of answer your first question in here second as I I think we're still within the ballpark of those projections and I would uh maybe defer to um city manager on that a little bit but I think we're still within the range of the things we've projected for us. **[37:10] Kerri Kinsbutter:** okay Mr mayor council member edberg I'm next on the agenda and one of my bullet points was that our license and permits Revenue are extremely high part of that is because the school district is finishing out their projects so some of that's permits but the revenue that we're seeing from the roofing permits is also in there too so when we look at that line item we are over budget for that so. **[37:40] Mayor:** I have one question so we in the consent agenda we approved a little extra help for the inspectors for all the roofs do you have a sense of you know how long we think that's going to go on I mean I assume the roofs are a result of Storms and eventually those will get fixed and it kind of should die out give me some sense of when we think that will will kind of stabilize. **[38:05] Jason Lindahl:** uh mayor members of the console that's actually a really good question um I I think I would partly kind of provide a little background context into the additional help that was part of what we requested from the console here tonight is timely in that um you know we're feeling a little bit more sense of urgency given the time of year we're in and the fact that Winter's coming it's really hard to do roof inspections if they're snow covered so what we want to do is try to ramp up our resources right now and try to get through the bulk of these things before the snow flies and then um you know assess um you know the use of the resources that you've allotted to us as the weather changes you know you know it depends on if it gets cold and we don't get a lot of snow we can still continue to to work through these permits it's really the kind of the weather change that that affects that ability and if you um I just highlight from you might remember from the con uh the contract that we just talked about tonight it is able to be terminated you know after 30 days if if we so choose to do that so um it really was a sense of you know we we saw the storm occur you know kind of in the spring and then in the summer we saw a ramp up in um over the summer months but in the in those first few months related to the storm but then you'll notice of the highlights of the numbers that I gave you in the third quarter is when things have really popped so we we kind of are reacting to that that substantial increase that happened in the last quarter and trying to sharpen our resources and focus them and get through as many of those as we can before the weather changes on us. **[40:15] Mayor:** and in the memo I don't really see any numbers so my question is do the permitting fees cover the cost to bring on this third party is it a break even. **[40:25] Jason Lindahl:** that was a a essential component of what we looked at the permit fees are you know more than double the hourly rate of the person that we're talking to so and even in the if you're looking at it not so much on a permit comparison to the hourly rate if if the the person that we bring on if they're scheduled to do you know three of those roofing permits at onward let's say we're still at that rate we're still covering costs so the idea is is that um the the the the connection that we're also required to make is that the permit is directly related to the work that we're doing so we're making sure we're staying within that range so we have some margin it's not a money loser for the city while we're yep paying for this third party. **[41:15] Mayor:** okay Council any other questions comments thank you item 5c quarterly finance and License Bureau report MS kinsbutter. **[41:25] Kerri Kinsbutter:** members of the council I'm wrapping up the department reports today I'm going to be talking about the finance department and the license bureau in regards to finance the revenue and the expenditure accounts are tracking very closely to where the budgets are except one item that I wanted to note is that the license and permits is more I just did a quick calculation we are 392 thousand dollars over what our budget is right now so between that final part of the school district and those roofing permits that's really had that Revenue be strong another and just a little side note on revenues when I was going through our Park rental fees are up so it's been nice that our residents were out renting our parks and really enjoying the facilities that we have it was lower over the last couple of years as we kind of went through covid but it rebounded nicely we had budgeted about twenty thousand dollars in park revenues and through September 30th we're just over thirty three thousand so we don't have high rental fees for our facilities so they've been active and enjoyed so that's exciting to see I can answer any questions at the end if you have about Finance that's the highlights I wanted to give you looking at the license bureau activities the license bureau continues to be extremely busy helping customers mainly focused on driver's license um renewals and applications for the real enhanced IDs right now the people need to have their license changed to the new format by May of 2023 so we're seeing quite a few people in getting that taken care of down the department handled just over 1700 applications in the month of September alone that brings our total just drivers license transactions to 14 574 for the year that's significant if we compare it to last year the department handled just over 1300 in the same month if we look at the year to date it's very skewed because last year we were closed for part of the year to appointment only and so that really limited how many customers we could help because they were on a very set schedule so last year through September it was significantly lower but it's great that we're open and that we're able to help the customers staff does mention that customers frequently tell them that other neighboring DMV offices have referred them to our offices because these DMB offices are having Staffing shortages or are very limiting their service to driver's license they're keeping it on an appointment only basis um probably for a financial reason because we get less from the state when we process those transactions um so we've been able to help them I hope that the customers that come are excited about the service that they've received and come back in the future with their other transactions the title transactions in the dealership work is down from what it hasn't been in previous years primarily because of supply chain shortages with the Automobiles and just recently over the last couple months we've seen it really slow down I'm thinking the higher loan interest rates there aren't a lot of cars out there to buy and for the people that um are going to buy one it's costing more to buy the new car we have more customers that are visiting our offices this year with their tab renewals which is very exciting it's nice to have them in for their quick transactions we appreciate the business and the ability to retain the fees to support our operations just a reminder to the public that when they come into our offices when we process a transaction the transaction fee stays here with our offices if the transactions are processed online then the state receives those fees so it's always nice to have the people in the office and being able to serve them so with that that's my report if you have any questions I'd love to answer them. **[45:30] Mayor:** thank you for that first what's the fee that we received from processing a driver's license application or renewal and is it different for the enhanced ID. **[45:45] Kerri Kinsbutter:** Mr Mayor members of the council the fee that we receive is eight dollars and the fee has not changed through the time so it was when they had the just standard IDs years ago we received eight dollars with the implementation of the new um software systems through the state are agency now does more work we are updating the their system real time so any user can see that information and the transactions are taking longer but we still only get the eight dollars per transaction. **[46:15] Mayor:** that's for that across the board whether it's a normal driver's license or correct a real ID or enhanced ID and what would you say if you had to handicap the time spent to process a normal driver's license or an enhanced ID what's the difference between those two. **[46:30] Kerri Kinsbutter:** Mr Mayor members of the council when they have the standard IDs years ago we could process one in five to ten minutes so we were earning eight dollars every five to ten minutes with the real and enhanced IDs when we first started processing them they were taking about 45 minutes our staff through processing them and has helped reduce that time and just education to the public that people can go online do pre-registration so it's probably down to 20 25 minutes it depends on the transaction if someone's coming in and they haven't had a number of name changes and they have all of their documentation ready we can process them faster if people don't have all of their documentation or if they're quite a few things that they need to reference and check then that's going to take longer but it's still just the eight dollars. **[47:20] Mayor:** so it's fair to say and I know I'm just preaching the choir I just wanted to be on the record if you're processing two maybe 2.2 an hour at eight bucks a throw it's hard to monetize that when you factor in the labor costs for just a modest salary in the benefits package that goes with it fair statement. **[47:40] Kerri Kinsbutter:** Fair statement. **[47:42] Mayor:** And Equipment councilmember Jones. **[47:45] Councilmember Jones:** following up on that so I took the time to take me and my senior citizen mother and go get real IDs and we came down to the it was 22 minutes to process two but we were spot on I had come in and said okay I've got this this and this we had everything ready to go it was lined up I had pre-filled out the application so here's what I you know that we went quickly but that's only because the license bureau of the advice that I got here verbally and online and being ready um with the catch that oh by the way your mom needs her birth certificate because whatever the loop is that wasn't quite clear online which if not the city's website but if there was a problem I can't imagine what the staff goes through I mean to sit there and watch them document do all they had to do to process that real ID and I can't imagine if a customer and I'm sure there are many more than there were pre-2020. of just I'm a crappy person I'm going to make your day crappy because that's what I'm going to do today because I didn't do the right thing I can't imagine how much stress that adds to and the time factor that adds to sitting there arguing and it's their fault not the states not the person presenting it so I I really appreciated it uh they treated me horribly they treated my mom great so I would really like that so thank you Mr Mayor. **[49:10] Mayor:** anyone else on the council they were right to do so by the way right I'm sure you deserve it it's no no doubt in anyone's mind on that Mr Jones I'm just kidding any other questions or comments thank you all right item six certify delinquent utility accounts and City expenses incurred servicing private properties Miss kinsabato that's yours as well. **[49:35] Kerri Kinsbutter:** Mr Mayor members of the council yes tonight we are having a public hearing for the delinquent utility bill assessments and the nuisance assessments just to go over a brief review of how we do the delinquent utility bills the city bills Property Owners on a quarterly basis and the payments are due 35 days later each year we go through the accounts and see pull a report that has delinquent has accounts with delinquent charges that are Beyond 30 days overdue as of June 1st and when we go through that then we send notices out to each of these property addresses saying that they have delinquent amounts on their utility bill if they are not paid um before we do the certification then they will be certified to their accounts they're also referenced in the letter that if they would like to discuss their delinquent account with the council that they can come to the public hearing as we look at the number of notification letters that we sent out this year it's exciting to say that this is the lowest number of notifications we have sent in the last seven years so the people by looking at that way people are paying their bills and staying more current just under half of the accounts receiving these notices in the beginning of September um were brought current so the property owners made a payment to the city and brought a current when people do call to discuss their delinquent account with our Utility Billing staff person the staff person refers the residence to Ramsey County to seek available help through their services we also this year is new in the next three bills so the bills that go out now for the end of October the end of November and the end of December they will all have a flyer describing an energy assistance program that will be through the community action program of Ramsey and Washington counties um this will be sent out to everyone so that they when they open their bill if they don't take the time to call us they at least have the information in their hands so that they can call for assistance and we also post information on our social social media accounts to remind people that there are services available to help pay their utility bills as we go through this process I'm going to ask for you to approve a resolution tonight to certify the the accounts we're still accepting payments through the 18th of November so what you approve tonight if someone still makes a payment the 18th has to be a cut off the county has a new property tax system and there they cannot be lenient on taking any Lane payments so there's a process we need to go through to get the data ready to send to the county um so we just need that time between the 18th so we can get it well before the end of November um three residents did reach out and sent letters concerning their accounts and in my memo that there was a brief kind of description on all three accounts and a recommendation that I had given of how I would handle the accounts that's up to the council to decide if you'd like to follow our recommendations um so that was the utility billing side as we look at the nuisance assessment side there are properties that it's typically tree removal or lawn care that are not getting done during the year and so through our code enforcement the city pays for the services to be completed and then we build a residence when this happens typically the residents will pay the the bills it always comes down to just a few that don't get paid at the end of the year these properties were also notified about um their payments being would be certified to taxes if they did not make the the payments to the city so there are six invoices that remain unpaid for the year the total of the sixes um properties is one thousand three hundred fifty nine dollars the city will also accept payments on these invoices through November 18th so with that I'm asking the city council to approve two separate resolutions the first one is for the delinquent utility account assessments with the recommend accepting the recommendations for the three accounts the second resolution is to accept the nuisance assessment to recover the city's expenses from those property owners. **[54:15] Mayor:** thank you miss kinsbutter this is a public hearing and I will now open it up for anyone who wants to speak I will note that on my sheet I have nobody that signed up and I'm fairly certain nobody wants to speak to this issue going once going twice I will close the public hearing and bring it back to the council I just have one question before we jump into any discussion if there is any so I'd be inclined to follow what the recommendations are which it sounds like we're granting one resident who's at 2204 gardenette Drive North some leniency on this because they're the only ones that have made a good faith effort to make a partial payment and they've committed to a payment plan and we're confident that they will pay knowing that worst case scenario we can pick them up in 2023 if for some reason they renege on that the question I have and this is maybe for our City attorney as well my read of the resolution just says we're going to certify all that are currently on that list and it doesn't give us the flexibility so if we're reading the current resolution to follow the staff recommendation which is to exclude that one then I don't think anything needs to be done if it's the will of the council to exclude that one staff recommendation from the list then I think we need to monkey with the resolution a little bit is that a fair analysis. **[55:40] City Attorney:** Mr Mayor yes it's certainly not unusual when when things come up where staff wants to look more carefully at something or if something's been worked out you can just identify that essentially they're taking off that list for now and then when the resolution passes the list that's being adopted is essentially excludes them no from the certification but it kind of goes back to what was said I mean you know this list is going to be adjusted before it actually gets certified anyway to cut to accommodate any payoffs that are done between now and then. **[56:15] Mayor:** so I'll ask the pointed question does this current resolution give the city staff the flexibility to amend that list a little bit. **[56:25] City Attorney:** I think we have something more explicit uh it probably wouldn't hurt moving forward uh to have that flexibility recognized but given the fact that it was the report leading up to the adoption of the resolution it's understood that that's how this is going to work frankly this is not compelling staff to certify something that isn't legitimate to certify if it's been paid off it's been paid off so I I think you're fine for now we certainly can talk about next year. **[56:55] Mayor:** okay fair enough Council what would we like to do with this councilmember edberg. **[57:05] Councilmember Edberg:** I would like to honor staff's recommendations and make sure that our resolution allows them to implement that so whatever that resolution is I would move it. **[57:15] Mayor:** how do you want to frame that Mr Mayor I think based on with the analysis of the City attorney was the current resolution that's before us does provide that flexibility and we will be extra explicit next time around for any ones that we want to carve out but I think we're good to go so I have a motion to move the first resolution as it pertains to the utility accounts do I have a second. **[57:40] Councilmember Walsh:** second. **[57:42] Mayor:** the motion a second any further discussion seeing none all those in favor say aye aye any opposed motion carries the resolution passes which brings us to the second resolution before us which is a resolution approving uh certifying the expenses incurred for servicing private properties that would entertain a motion to approve that resolution. **[58:05] Councilmember Jones:** moved. **[58:07] Mayor:** motion a second any further discussion seeing none all those in favor say aye aye any opposed carries resolution passes items seven through eight we have nothing scheduled which brings us to item 10 Communications from the city manager Ms Crawford. **[58:30] Lindy Crawford:** members of the council just one upcoming event to share with you tomorrow I believe yep tomorrow from 6 30 to 8 30 p.m is the County Road E Corridor study community meeting Workshop uh four so this is where the recommendations from the the report will be analyzed prior to them being submitted to to the the cities and and private Partners in consideration so invite everybody to attend that um and then we did receive our Parks garbage truck um there are a couple of pictures of it minus the our decal the the the actual cost came in at just over 155 000. it was budgeted at 153 000 and the um so we were close considering the market right now but we couldn't order the original chassis which we had to get very creative with that so kudos to our Public Works employees to get that done so I'd have it outside but it's currently taken apart right now for to put some lighting in it so um just wanted to share that with you and then a reminder that our next city council meeting will be on Wednesday November 9th due to election day and then also wanted to just give staff um Kudos you had you received three Department reports um tonight and I continue to be so impressed with with all of our employees and just we have a lot of public facing departments and I have received probably three complaints about our employees in the almost year that I have been here which includes you know police fire and license bureau so um specifically our license bureau they're so positive with everything that they have to deal with and being in the same building as them I mean they complained about council member Jones of course but that comes with the territory no but I just want to say thank you to all of our staff so that's all I have mayor. **[1:00:45] Mayor:** all right thank you questions or comments for Ms Crawford councilman Bradburn. **[1:00:55] Councilmember Edberg:** so just looking at numbers in our in our fire or our ambulance report I don't think our city I don't think the residents of the city have the foggiest clue that there are 5 000 runs a year for ambulance service calls and and to the fire department 17 500 to date 20 to 21 000 police activities though okay so a lot of that is other stuff but and then things like um uh just the the the big numbers I don't think anybody has a clue yeah of how many how much work is actually done on their behalf with their taxes and I think that those are some numbers that we try and send a message because it gives a sense of scale anyway I think that's useful for all of us in evaluating where where do were our taxes going what's the value that we create etc etc. **[1:02:00] Mayor:** counsel any other comments all right seeing none I'd entertain a motion to adjourn second paper say I am we're adjourned you guys really want to stick around people someone just has to say second time.