Call the Ware Tone board meeting for September 3rd, 2025 to order. First item on the agenda is the approval. Patrick, you got any changes? Um, no changes from staff, Mr. Chair. Board of anything? Nothing from me. Nothing from me. All right. I need a motion to approve the agenda. Move to approve the agenda as part of the packet. Second. All in favor say I. Opposed. All right. Item three is approvement of payment of bills. Sign off, Steve. I signed off. Move to approve payment of the bills. Second. All in favor? I. All right. Item four is approval of the minutes from August 18th. Um, do you guys receive them? I know they came kind of late. I did. I I saw nothing. Neither did I. Move to approve the prior minutes of the August 18th meeting. Second. All in favor say I. I. All right. Item five is a consent agenda item. We have six. Uh, the board have any issue with these? Yes, Mr. Mr. Chair, I'd like to pull off for discussion item 5D, the 2025 liquor license. All right, Beth, I'm fine. All right, then I need a motion to approve the consent agenda items minus 5D. Anyone? Anyone? I'll move to approve approve the consent agenda minus 5D. Uh, so I'll second. All right. All in favor say I. I. I. All right. So, we are going to go to item item 5D is a 2025 liquor license for uh what is this? Mia Kaza restaurant. Uh Mr. Chair, my my uh issue with this has to do with the certificates for insurance as it relates to the location at 1011 Meadowand Drive. Uh in our packet we received copies of the uh uh liquor liability uh cert and it does name Whitebear Township u as a certificate holder. However, uh in the descriptions of the operation, nowhere does it mention where this location is. The only insured is located at 14637 County Road 11 in Burnsville. And if you follow down on and Mr. attorney. You can certainly look at this and see what your thoughts are. There also is the property coverage. It's the same issue, but they provided a certificate for workers comp which lists the location of 1011 Melands Drive, which is the location of the business in the township. So, I I I don't mind approving it subject to um that a cleanup of the description of the operation. So, it's clear that it's intended for the liquor liability to cover uh the second location that they have. It'll cover the physical location. Yes, in the township. Got it. That that's acceptable. Okay. So, that would be my change. I I we can approve it uh subject to uh that correction of the description of operation locations. Does that have to be sent back through the insurance company or Yeah, but Riley can take care of that internally with the with the customer. Uh they'll just have to issue a new certificate adding that because it does add White Bear Township as a a a certificate holder. So, they know we exist. It just doesn't say what location and we have no interest in the Burnsville location. I would say I would say as well. So staff will take care of that. So I'll make a motion to approve 5D subject to the uh changes to the description of the operation location. I'll second. All right. Motion's made second. All in favor say I. All opposed. All right. Item 6A, the Southshore Boulevard jurisdictional transfer. Yes. for the board's request. Um I did just send um I got it. Okay. The most recent copy of this agreement that Mr. Isacson from Ramsey County sent to me this afternoon. It should have all of your signatures and signature lines required as I believe Ramsey County passed this yesterday. Right, John? Um See if I can pull it up here. Right here. Look at mine. Chad, you looked at this, didn't you? Yeah. Put the package up. I got it. I just I was looking to see if there was a a date or a number we can refer this. There is. Looks like it would be 902 2025. That's the date that looks like that would have been yesterday. It was signed. Mhm. Yep. That's what you've got on the signatures for the uh commissioner. All right. So, technically though, Patrick I I didn't sign this. So, no. But we don't It'll be ratified upon your signature this evening. Uh I have no document to sign. Well, you want to try to docu sign this here. You just print it out and sign it tomorrow. Actually, I'm not going to be here. Oh, um that's what I was getting at. I like signed tonight. He's gone tomorrow morning at like 6:00 a.m. till next Friday or next Friday. Should we have him bust on over to my office tonight and sign off on this or you can wait till then? Okay. Can we docu sign this, Chad, or not? Or does it have to be a You can docuign this. Sure. There's no nothing wrong with that. Well, after the meeting, you can Let's work on logistics. Okay. So officially then as of tonight when we signed this, Southshore Boulevard will now be property of the township. Well, no, it has to be approved by the Minnesota Department of Transportation. Then it becomes the property of the township. Right. So this is just being forwarded to them, right? Exactly. What's the time frame on it? I have no idea how long mind takes to do think the turnaround is on that, John. Yeah. Why don't you come on up? Just give your name and address for the record. Good evening. I'm John Mazatello. I'm the deputy director of public works for Ramsey County, 1425 Paul Kirkwald Drive, Ardan Hills, Minnesota, 55112 I think it is. Um, Southshore Boulevard as it stands this evening prior to your action is not a county state aid highway. It is a county road. So, the resolutions get forwarded to MINDOT for recording purposes. It does not necessarily need their approval. We're sending those documents so they know it is now counted as a township road within Ramsey County. To clarify, it does have to go to the mendot. It does have to go to actually approve it. I don't believe it takes a formal action on their part. No, but they have to record it. Correct. And once they record it, once they formally acknowledge it, then it's complete. Correct. If I implied that they have it, right? I did. That was incorrect. They don't have to approve it, but they do have to receive it. Correct. And acknowledge it. Correct. Yeah. Well, so Chad, that is the date when the the the two-year maintenance under this well under under the statute, the transfer is formally complete when Mandot records it in the records. But for your question, so you want to know when the two-year agreement begins and ends. So that time is that when that's when the clock starts to run. Okay. Yeah. To answer the question, yes. All right. Thanks, John. Well, after the meeting, we'll see if we can get this figured out. So, Okay. And I'm here to answer any other questions if they come up. Yeah. I think that we should be able to hash this out. Yeah. Okay. All right. Thanks. All right. So, we can move on this for now, Chad. Yes. Right. So, I need a motion to accept thisou. I'll make a motion to accept the memorandum from RAM between Ramsey County uh and Whitebear Township of the maintenance of Southshore Boulevard. Uh the one that is in our packet is not correct, but there is a we were emailed a an update. So, we're going to go on the 9225 memorandum signed. Is that that is correct. Okay, that's the motion. Motion also include authorization of the town of the chairman of the chair of the town board and the town clerk to execute the uh theou. Okay. I think there was a signature line for the town attorney sign too. You really wanted on that if you recall. Oh, I wasn't. Yeah. So you So I'll add that to my me my motion. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Clerk. Motion Motion's made have been seconded. All in favor say I. I. All opposed. All right. Uh, let's see. Seven, we have no public hearings. Eight, we have no new business. Nine is at agenda. We have none. So, 10 is open time. We have some people in the audience have to come on up. Uh, name and address for the record. You, too. Okay. Hi. Mary Fehey. My address is 5301 Heidi Circle in the township. 55110. I'm Julia Leman. I live next to Mary 53 5305 80 circle as well. Okay. What would you like to talk about? Let's talk about the property at uh 2537 Street in the township which is right around the corner from our properties. Um it is a lighted house. There are a number of uh things posted on the door that indicate that um you know most of them are from Mike Johnson who's the compliance officer saying that the house is is condemned and the most recent one was actually I have a copy of it. I think I actually sent a copy of it. Yep. But it was um it was posted a year ago in August of 24 and basically says that the property is condemned. It's beyond rehabilitation. it's not fit for human habitation and that it is the township's uh intention that the property be demolished and that the owner has uh can either file an appeal um within a certain specified amount of time since this was posted in August of 24 or um and to have an abatement hearing or uh the property would be you know slated for demolition either they the owner could demolish it or the that he would and then file a lean against the value of the property. Again, the the date of that letter is August 12th, 2024. The date that he gave them uh for the deadline for demolition was October 19th, 2024, and the house is still there. So, I guess I'm wondering what is the status of this where we stand. It's it it is not good for the property values and safety of the neighborhood. In my opinion, the board and Mike Johnson just reviewed this last Friday. Okay. Our exec meeting. Okay. It hasn't gone away. It's still on our radar. The the problem is property owners have rights and we've been dealing with our town attorney and Mike Johnson to proceed according to ordinance and I believe the last one is a beyond the abatement order. Correct Chad? Yes. prop procedures. Mike will have to prepare a list of all the defects, what has to be corrected. Then the town board will adopt a a resolution directing the owner of the property to correct these defects from the certain period of time. Normally, it's 60 to 90 days. If they don't correct those defects within that period of time, then the town can then apply to can apply to the court for an order allowing the town to demolish the property. This is all required by statute and also case law. It's designed to protect the property rights of the land owner and I understand what your position is, but that's the way that's that's a requirement. And so first next step is Mike's preparing the list right now. Next step will be the board will hold a hearing on that and adopt a resolution directing the owner to to correct the deficiencies Mike's lists on that list and they fail to do so then the town can then proceed to uh apply to the court for an order allowing it to demolish the home. So what you're saying is the deadline originally given of October 1920. You're gonna have to speak up. Yeah. All right. So what I'm understanding is the original deadline given of October 19, 2024 was a soft deadline. It's part of the process, but the town can't simply tear a house down. actually the town nor no m can no governmental entity can simply go in and tear a house down without giving the owner due process and under the statute due process of what I've just described. So I mean what Mike did was he did did everything according to the procedures under the ordinance but that's just the start. I know it it's it's it's it's deceiving because it appears that okay well the house is still you know time's passed they haven't done anything let's get the bulldozers out there no it's not that's the way it works my question is did Mike just jump the gun on this because what no just wait because what he said was that that the uh a duly appointed officer of Whitebear Township has performed an inspection of your property and has determined the dwelling to be dangerous and dilapidated to the extent that it is unreasonable to repair the structure, which would suggest to me that he's already determined that the systems are not redeemable, should we say. And then he further gives a date by which uh the it should be demolished and removed. And he gives in in the third paragraph uh he he says you know you have a right to appeal this but we need to hear from you by this number of days. So that has long passed. So what was the value of posting this if there's no teeth in it there? Okay. There is teeth but you have to look at it from this standpoint. This is what I think the point that is being missed. that that's Mike's position. The owner may have a different position and the owner has the right to say, "No, Mike, you're wrong. You should never condemn the house to begin with." That's why it has to go to district court. I've been a builder for 40 years. Every house is repable. Every house. But what we can condemn it to to say that it's not repairable. Problem is, if you want to spend enough money, you can repair the house. So that's up to the property owner and and so when he says, you know, you can appeal this and we need to hear from you uh by prior to the abatement deadline or seven calendar days after the date of the abatement order. So he's they've given the owner the opportunity to file an appeal. Has that happened? As far as I know, I don't know if he's they filed an appeal or not. I cannot say. I presume they haven't because we've never had a hearing on that. I would know because I would be at that hearing. However, what you're reading is not the final step. It's the first step. Next step is Mike has to prepare the list I just described of all the defects, all the deficiencies and the town board has to conduct a public hearing at which the owner has the right to appear and the town board can then adopt all the deficiencies. Either e it can adopt all the deficiency mics lists. It can fail. It can decide not to adopt any of them or it can adopt some of them. In the past, the town has always adopted. It's always followed Mike's recommendations. Okay? But that is step two. And if they fail to follow through on step two, then the town has to apply to district court for an order allowing the town to demolish it. And we have to serve that complaint on the property owner. The property owner has the right to appear in front of the court, front of the judge and argue their case. This is all part of due process. It's under the statute and there's case law that requires we do it. So did Mike jump the gun then on this? Because this No, no, no, no, no, no. You're let me let me let me let me explain it again. Mike, what Mike did was the first step. He didn't jump the gun. he took the first step. In that case, I think my follow-up question is how what is the timeline for each of these steps that you're describing? Because as a resident, I've lived there now for five years. Every time somebody comes to visit me, I tell them turn right by the haunted house. So, what I'm trying to figure out is I talking about this going to be next step is before after Halloween. Once when my kid graduates, what I be talking about? Okay. Once Mike prepares the list and the town board conducts the necessary hearing and adopts Mike's list, the township has to give them anywhere from 45 to 60 days, sometimes 90. It it's done. Okay, that's that's after that time runs. If there's nothing happened, then the town files files a complaint petition with the court requesting an order to tear the house down. That takes another 90 days more or less because there's a 20 day the once it's served the owner has 20 days in which to respond, file an answer. They file an answer. Then the next step is to move for a summary judgement motion on the whole thing or the court can hold a hearing. It's up to the court. Once it's in the court, once it's in the district court, the judge controls. And to use the Stillwater Avenue property as an example, that turned into a default because the owner initially hired an attorney, but then they failed to carry it through. So, we had a hearing on that and the judge gave the owner of the property an additional we had the hearing in October and the judge actually gave them through March to correct the problem and they didn't correct the problem by March. Then we reapplied we applied for the order final order allowing us to tear the house down. So if you want to know the time frame, the initial order, the initial hearing in front of the front of the town board was in August. The court, we were in front of the court by uh I think it was late October, early November, I forget exactly. Then the court again granted them time, which the court can do. And that time and they gandered them till March to create to resolve the problem. And I believe remember correctly the court actually decided to wait another 30 days after the dead deadline passed uh to issue the order. And when they didn't do anything within that by the time frame set out by the court, the court then issued a final order directing the allowing the town to tear the house down, demolish the house. So the house came down in uh okay June that year. It was Mayor June I think wasn't it? Something like that. Mayor June. So you're talking about 10 months. This whole process we went over on Friday to get Mike on the path to get to that point. it it this is very difficult to get property owners to to abide by this answer our responses and it it's almost impossible to get them to especially when they're not around that I this this guy's been kind of not available for quite some time. So it's not that we're not being patient with them. This is on our radar and we've got another house from the same situation and in my time around the town we've only taken down two houses. So, this is this is kind of unique for the township and it just it's a process. There's just no way to fasttrack these. And one of the point I know it's not it doesn't answer you you guys' dilemma, but it actually does in so many ways. You're giving us a timeline that's better than five years that I've watched it slowly fall into disrepair. So, uh, the timeline that you indicated of a year sounds delightful to me actually comparatively uh to what is it's not to say that they come in there and they try to rehab that house and they're welcome to uh so my but I have a question for you. I did appreciate you saying homeowners have rights. So, as homeowners um is there we're not talking about like a porch infringing on somebody's will too big of a fence. We're talking about based on on your line dangerous structure. Is there an expedited process for dangerous structures? No. Okay. process I described is the if let's say you had a house that was partially demolished you know due to say a fire or other natural occurrence there we could probably do it a little differently because that's that but even then you have to give them time to uh to correct the problem you just you know the court is very protective of the rights when I say property property owner. I'm talking about the owner of the house that's to be destroyed, the target house. They're very protected of those rights and they're going to make sure that those rights are protected. And so we that's the that's the process we're required to jump to to go through. Every government's required to go through it. Has Mike Johnson given you an idea of when his uh piece of this puzzle will be ready to review? when we talked when we talked about it after the exec meeting last week and I believe he should have the list ready soon. We can follow up with him. I can follow up with Mike. You send him an email tomorrow and ask him how it's going. Great. That'd be great. I will tell you Mike does his job. Well, and that's fine. But his he is one of the few pieces of this process that you have some influence over. You can't make the court move faster. You can't make the property owner move faster necessarily, but you could like make sure Mike understands that. Um, Mike's Mike's quite aware of what he's of his obligations. I don't mean to I don't mean to disparage him. Yeah. I will tell you this, the house on Stillwater was one. We had another one uh on Township Drive where the owner actually did dispute things and that took a lot longer. Mhm. Eventually, by the way, eventually that house was actually re rehab. Close to 10 years. That house is actually rehab. Steve's neighbor. That was Yeah, that was one of my neighbors. So, so I mean that was uh that one was a lot more complicated and therefore more timeconuming. The the courts are is is they're kind of leaning towards they they give them every opportunity if they they fix just a couple things and say, "Okay, work with them." And because the courts they don't want to really hear this stuff, but they have to eventually. So, it's do a little, push a little, do a little, push a little till, till it gets to the point where you can't do it anymore. And maybe they'll take the steps as it turned out on the Still Water property, say enough is enough. So, okay. And I understand what you're saying. I just have a couple few more questions. So, so if the property owner says, "Okay, well, we'll we'll fix a little something." They did start to about a year and a half ago they started to remove a deck and Mike posted a stop work order on the door and said no further work is allowed on this property. That's because because he wanted to see a total building permit not just a peace meal. He wanted to see a total building permit of what they were going to do not just replace one window one door. So just so I understand. So when there's and I've seen the paperwork that they have to file for vacant properties and it's extensive. They have to give an accounting of all of the systems in the house and they file that. Do they only have to do that one time? Well, they pay that every year. Not they pay they pay a fee every year, but do they only have to file the paperwork one time? Well, they file the the plans to rehab the house once. After that point, they have to carry through with those plans. Okay. Um, and do you guys have that? I mean, do you is it on file with the with the township? Tell you if they if they've done that or not. Sure. I can check though. Well, it' be under the vacant building registry. So, somebody would know what at least the original intention was for it or Well, we have guidelines what what falls under vacant building. The biggest thing is just nonoccupied, right? And it I mean I the registration I've you know looked through it. It's impressive the amount of things that they have to account for you know in in terms of of maintaining a a vacant building and and describing what their plan is for it. Got anything else? Is there a way that you can kind of keep the neighbors informed about what's going on there at all or is that just like no way we can reach out to find out those next steps? You can always send us emails. Well, you know, as citizens and you can keep coming back to open time, but who would those emails go? Mike, you can send them to me and my Mike Patrick and Mike Johnson. Mike Johnson. Okay, that's helpful. Sure. And by the way, there will be a public hearing uh that you know the order I'm talking about that the the town has to issue. That's a public hearing. So, and that may be also your chance if by some miracle that the property owner does show up, you may be able to voice your opinion then. My my unhappiness and you will get notice of that because you're you said you're right across the street or right around the corner and there's a radius that we have to provide notice for public hearings. And I just have one other additional comment and maybe you can speak to this. Okay. Because you've had an experience with a a house near yours. Um so I had a long and interesting discussion with the Ramsey County as tax assessor. Um it was interesting and I said, you know, does this kind of condemned property or or you know, dilapidated property does this, you know, how how how does this impact my my tax assessment? And he said it doesn't. we don't consider it at all. They look at they look at real estate that has been sold in around that your home and see what that value is. And most of them have not went down and can honestly say that that's an argument to be made. But it's doesn't really hold water in this environment today. Well, he didn't think it held water at all. So, even if that somebody comes in and says, "Look, I'll buy the property and I'll tear it down and fix it up." It's still not going to help your value. Your value is still going to be up with everybody around you. Not that one. Well, I I was just thinking it would be a drag on the value of the homes nearby. You would think, but not when it comes to the dollar. It may limit some some people that come to look at your property because they say, "Well, I don't want to live near that house." But but that isn't the final answer on the evaluation. That was still worth worth in this hole. That's what I was told. I just thought it was an interesting uh interesting conversation. He's a nice guy. Done. Okay. Thank you guys. Thank you. Appreciate it. Ralph, you got anything? Ralph Tilma, 4294 Oak Lane. As long as we're on the subject of houses, there's a property on South Birch Lake Boulevard that is unoccupied. Um, and the lawn and landscape is severely overgrown. Give me a ballpark where it is. Um, maybe if you if you don't have maybe you can mail it. Email you. You got Patrick's email address. You can email it to them so we can have our code enforcement officer go by and Okay. So, I'll email you the address, but it's it's between Oakme and the next street there, right in that section. It's on the east side of the street. How long have they been empty? I don't know. A long time. Yeah, we'd like to know that. That's for sure. Like, like you just heard when they're empty for up to a year, then we start charging a vacant building fee because it's sitting empty. And one thing that may make you feel a little better know that process I talked about for tearing a house down that does not apply apply to tall grass. Well, I I know that but it's really uncampl looking. Sure. And like you said maybe there's a fee for that or actually if it gets too long if it gets too loud the building inspector will send a company out to mow the grass and and the homeowner will be charged. It's been a long long time because there's brush growing in the driveway. So, they can't get a vehicle in and out right now. Get get Patrick the address. He'll have get it to Mike and he can get out there and take a look at it. Somebody should look at it. The thing is the township's a little bit of a complaint driven township. A lot of things we don't know about unless a resident brings it up to us. So I we appreciate that that you're going to let us know because you know if Mike doesn't drive down that road for four months, you don't drive down every road. No, you would miss it because it's so overgrown you would wouldn't see it. I appreciate it. Well, no, Ralph, that's that's important. I'm I appreciate you bringing it up so we can get it on the list of And when are we going to get a town constable? I'm all for it, Ralph. Oh, you applying for the job? Yeah. Will you swing by? I'll get you an apple. Nice to have one. Oh, I remember those days. Yeah, I believe it was Norm Thurmer. It was. Yep. Yep. Okay. One other question about the um bow hunting on township property. Those folks that are going to hunt deer, they have to abide by the hunting laws. They have to be licensed through, I believe, the Minnesota Department of National Resource Natural Resources. They have to have a license, a bow hunting license even to qualify. Yeah. and they have to uh abide by the rules on number of animals taken and that sort of thing. Absolutely. So, this isn't something where we're just going to go out and kill a bunch of deer because we think there's too many. Nope. No, it's just a hunt for they're just getting to hunt in town. Yeah. So, they don't have to drive up north. Yeah. Yeah. Ramsey County has kind of identified by different areas how many deer they think need to be taken and I don't think they can exceed the maximum for that area and they do it by doese's and bucks if they allow that. I believe that to be the get and it's in that material that they shared with us. Well, if there'll be one less deer you can hit with your car. Yeah. Well, um I don't like to drive at night. Don't blame you. All right. Thanks, Rob. Thanks, Rob. All right, seeing no one else, I need a motion to see receive a agenda materials and supplements. So moved. Second. All in favor say I. I. I need a motion to journ at 7:33. Thank you, board. Second. We are journ. All stay up, you guys. Oh, okay.