ha hereby call to order the rosille Economic Development Authority meeting for uh Monday January 22nd 2024 Mr C manager SL executive director would you call the rooll for member strong here member Scher here member Aton here member gra he's here can we hear him says we're in a practice session start webinar oh ah we kept them out I'm out of practice here hold on all right this is the most the most suspense we've had on a a roll call in a long time member grath still can't hear you but he's clearly here he's here in president Ro here thank you and with us at the table here we have our Economic Development attorney J ferini who's at the sort of end of the table on my right and our executive director as mentioned before pat trudon on the other end of the table on my left we also have various staff uh department heads some guests who will be participating in the meeting and we'll introduce those folks as uh we proceed with the various items on the agenda I would ask folks if you have a cell phone to be sure to silence it or otherwise assure that it doesn't disrupt our meeting this evening with that we'll ask folks to stand if you're able for the Pledge of Allegiance I pledge aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all right next on our agenda is approval of tonight's uh Economic Development Authority agenda uh are there any changes from a staff perspective this evening there's not Mr President all right are there any members who wish to make changes to the Eda agenda end of this evening if not a motion to approve the agenda would be in order so move second it's been moved by member Scher second by member ston any discussion on that motion uh hearing none Mr TR would you call the role member strong I member schorer I member Aton I member gra thumbs up yeah you can use interpretive dance fing for for for the simple thumbs up thumbs down thumbs up would do do we have a vote from coun from Member gra on the approval of the agenda distress poor guy I know really he's gonna type it into the chat you might not be able to hear us need to get this to work muted he can't hear us he can't hear us that's a problem Ian is here hello Ian gra can you hear us nope he call in his phone it's j sorry to interrupt um he has to be able to be seen and heard and you all have to be able to be seen and heard in order for yes in order for him to be considered present at this meeting for purposes at the open meeting law right so at this point until that happens he is not present at the meeting that's right so do we want to work offline to see if we can get things resolved and we'll proceed with the four of us who are clearly a quorum of the of the Eda and then once we can get uh member gra back in the in the full communication both ways then we can we can consider him part of the meeting again why don't we do that yeah all right we don't want to hold things up any longer than we have to so with that then we have actually just to note the roll call does not include member of GRA until such time as he's back into the meeting uh with that then we've got our uh well we need one more vote on the agenda president Ro I didn't take your attendance this was on the motion to approve the agenda so we have four votes in favor of approving the agenda and the agenda is approved thanks to everyone for your patience and the technical difficulties here uh not a surprise we're a little out of practice with this so we'll get it we'll get it straightened out but with that then uh just to note that we'll forego uh general public comment at the start of the Eda meeting and we'll we'll do that at the start of the council meeting which is our usual practice with the Economic Development Authority meetings and that means we can proceed right into the business of our Economic Development Authority meeting this evening and the first item of business is annual election of officers uh Mr trean would you introduce this item yes thank you uh Mr President as you mentioned uh annually we do elect officers to serve uh as officers for this board um so we are looking uh for the board members to nominate a president a vice president and Treasurer and for reference we have who's currently in those positions in the staff report under the bylaws the secretary is me as executive director and the assistant Treasurer is our City Finance director Michelle petrick so specifically we are asking for you to um make a motion to appoint a president vice president and treasurer of the Eda thank you Mr treas and past practice has been uh president the vice president tend to be the mayor and acting mayor and then the treasur is sort of the the open position so uh looking for uh thoughts from the Council on that Treasurer position certainly councilman BR I will move uh mayor row as president member grath as vice president and uh member Schroeder as treasure to kind of switch St and I out there a second I will also second if that's not sufficient why don't we why don't we do that we'll have so we have a motion from uh members Pon second by member St to appoint uh as the as the president uh himself as vice president uh member gra who is the acting mayor this year and is the treasurer member schroer we have a motion and the second is there discussion on the motion treas would you call the role please on that motion member St I member shorter I member Aton I member gra I back in the meeting uh president I that motion passes unan ly 5 to Zer with all members present and voting uh then that brings us to I believe that's it for this item as you noted in the bylaws it already directs that the secretary is the is the city manager and the uh assistant Treasurer is finance director so we don't have to take an action on those as I understand it uh that then brings us to a a far more interesting and substantive item which is the recognition of recipients of our annual Roseville sustainability Steward award uh and this evening we have uh both Genie Kelsey our housing and economic development program manager and Noel ban who is our sustainability specialist all right I'll get these you know after a few years I'll figure out these titles uh with that I'll turn over to them to introduce this year's winners and talk a little bit about what folks are doing out there yeah again I just wanted to give you a little background on uh this program if if you know the Eda has and prior to that was the HRA was funding this program and recognizing sustainable efforts in our community uh last year in 2022 we actually worked together um with Public Works to revamp the program and make it more of an um all-inclusive I guess I opportunity for our residents in your packet you have that revised application since then no other changes have been made um for your recognition we may bring it back at a later time for you to look at some other um maybe enhancements or modifications just because sustainability is always changing and improving in today's market so I'm going to turn turn it over to Noel we did work together in order to review all the applications that were submitted this year and um came to the conclusion of who our three tops were great so we had a lot of really competitive applications this year I believe we had nine or 10 I can't remember the number off hand um but we'll start with our gold winner um our gold winner is Jim and Susan Nelson um they did did a lot of very impressive things a little too many to all mention here but one of the big things that really stuck out was they do a lot of community involvement with with the city uh they volunteer at city park events including the most recent Buckthorn Dragon stack in November um they also installed a large solar uh system on their roof this season and they've been going through a really long-term Landscaping project project replacing all their um their plants with pollinator friendly things and Native plantings and that sort of thing so they've done a fantastic job with the community we're glad that they also I wanted to note they have a plot at the Rice Street Gardens which isn't technically a Roseville location but as shows their commitment to the community overall so we're really glad that they're here and congratul congratulations Jim and Sue come up sure right congratulations yeah thank you so much conations there you are that will help your uh your plantings or whatever absolutely so this is thank you you thanks for all your [Applause] work next for our silver award we awarded Bruce and Susan Calhoun uh partly for their Community involvement they also worked with our Reservoir roods rest restoration and they've adopted a storm draam near their home um they had a home energy Squad visit back in March Mar of 2022 and then recently followed up with a solar installation also this fall um so we are very glad that they've done a lot of good work and Susan is here today so if Susan would like to come up and receive recognition two Susans today congratulations thanks [Applause] for and finally our bronze winner was not able to be here tonight but our winner is John mlly um John also adopted a stor drain and has done some energy efficient efficiency work over the last several years including um inst installing a programmable thermostat as well as replacing a inefficient furnace and he also installed um solar energy this August so we are glad to have John here he did a great job so we'll connect with him later to provide him with his winning check so so thank you all for supporting the program and we're glad to continue recognizing residents this this year thank program have uh it's worth noting that we this is also a program that we can recognize businesses as well and as was noted in the report we we didn't quite have uh qualifying uh activities this year to to make an award for a business so we'll uh we'll continue to look for those opportunities and certainly want to make sure that folks in the community know uh first of all know about what they can be doing to be sustainable to help the environment uh but then also you know that we are aware of what they're doing so that we can uh certainly reward people for those efforts and and help to publicize what's going in in our community so thanks so much for that thank you all right great that concludes then our presentations related to the sustainable Steward award and we look forward to the next opportunity uh for those uh that then brings us to our next business and final business item here this evening on the Eda agenda and that is to consider a memorandum of understanding uh with the center with CE we'll call him uh regarding energy audit services and Mr Kelsey is here to introduce this item as well thank you president row and board members I just wanted to um provide you with an opportunity to continue the program of us subsidizing the energy Audits and also the home um visits uh that are done by CE on behalf of Excel Energy currently Excel Energy every three years does have to go out for bid um and they are in the process of finalizing that review and also fin finishing their progr procurement process in addition to it sounds like there may be some slight modifications this next year coming and because we're not fully aware what they are we are not able to enter into another three-year contract but in order to keep the lights on as I call it on a program that we've been doing for since 2010 so quite a long period of time um we need to enter into anou we did have our attorney draft thatou in order for your consideration in addition to I just want to let you know we continue to budget $122,000 a year for this energy audit services and it actually helps about 200 to 230 um homeowners in Roseville uh we have not been taken advantage of the whole amount but we continually uh broadcasted out there and it is a requirement that if you do any enhancements to any of the or use any of the loan programs here in Roseville you must conduct an energy audit but it's not prior to doing the loan it's just through the process so for your consideration and I do need a motion um with the resolution attached uh is theou for um authorizing us to continue the program until the end of May of this year or unless otherwise noted sooner um and I I believe we might have that wrong date in there so I'm going to make note of that right now that on theou it says expired oh I'm sorry that was the contract that expired December 31st of 2023 but we are continuing this through May in item one down below of their agreement it is through May 31st of 20124 that is in the where has clause on first page y right are there questions from uh members of the Eda for staff on this request for the memorandum of understanding we'll just check if there's anyone from the public who wishes to speak to this item this is once again we're considering a essenti a short-term agreement to continue our energy audit services for homeowners for five months is um well the process that they're undergoing with with Exel energy uh wraps up uh they've been our provider up to this point and would hopefully continue to be that and so we're just looking to offer a short-term agreement to fill the Gap until they're permanently in place again uh is there anyone from the public who wishes to speak to that seeing no one then uh we'll move to Eda consideration is there a motion from the Eda relative to this mou second move by member St second by member Scher uh any discussion on the motion member strong Scher other members keep the lights on we go and efficient with that then Mr trudon we have the motion before us to approve the resolution authorizing the memorandum of understanding would you call the role please member strong hi shter hi member Aton hi member gra hi president Hi motion passes unanimously that mou is approved that brings us to the end of our business items for The Economic Development Authority this evening is there a motion to adjourn move move by member Edon seconded by member stra to adjourn no discussion on a motion to adjourn Mr Tre would you call the role please member St I member schroer hi member etton I member gra I president ro hi that motion passes unanimously the Eda meeting is adjourned at 6:17 p.m. we'll take a short break to transition to the Roseville city council meeting Good Start Right hereby call to order the Roseville city council meeting then for Monday uh January 22nd 2024 the roll call Will Stand has called for the uh Economic Development Authority meeting that immediately preceded this with all members present but it was member go officially he was he was uh he was in and then out and back in so we've got him accounted for and I just noted all members present for the the council meeting so I think we're good uh with that then uh we will forego a second uh reciting of the Pledge of Allegiance uh and before we go to approval of tonight's agenda I did want to just take a moment uh and I forgot to do this at our last meeting uh but I wanted to just note the passing of a former council member uh and actually this occurred late last fall in October uh but I think it's important to recognize uh this person for their long service to the community uh and and acknowledge their passing uh this is Pat Johnson niggard who was a city council member um in the early 2000s late 90s I think something like that for one term also served on the Planning Commission prior to that um and was very involved in other ways volunteering in the community uh it's probably worth noting also that she had significant uh involvement in the Park and Recreation program especially uh financial support for the program in the form of uh hard work and long work on the on the uh Central Park Foundation including uh some time as president of the foundation and so uh Pat was 88 years old uh and was as I said a longtime resident of the community and certainly uh served the community in a number of ways during her uh time here as well as even after here as an advocate and I forgot to mention the whole uh piece about lton Lake Park which is largely uh there and continues to to thrive as a result of her efforts as well as other folks in the neighborhood in cluding Carol Ericson who's a good friend of hers and also has worked along with the city uh for a long time in in in parks and so once again just wanted to uh note and and uh respect the passing of of Miss Johnson niggard uh and certainly uh we wish condolences to her f f friends and family and hope that her memory can be a blessing to all with that then we'll move on to consideration of tonight's Council agenda Mr Tran is there anything that needs to be changed from a stat St perspective this no there's not Mr Mayor uh and then also check with council members council members anything that needs to be changed this evening on the agenda there's no consent agenda so nothing to remove doesn't appear to be the case all right then a motion to approve tonight's agenda would be in order so move second it's pleas moveed by council member shter second by council member Eton uh Mr Tre would call the role on approval of the agenda council member St hi council member sh hi council member Aton hi counc member gra hio hi that passes unanimously we have our agenda for this evening next on our agenda uh just to to make the the uh Fire Dog even more anxious as we'll take some time for a public comment uh and this is a chance for members of the public uh to speak on items that are not on tonight's agenda but may either be of interest to people in the community or related to City business uh we do provide opportunities for public comment as agenda items are considered but we always do want to at the start of each meeting provide an opportunity for general public comment uh in those categories I just described so we'll check with folks here this evening is there anyone here to comment this evening under general public comment regarding items not on tonight's agenda it does not appear to be the case uh so then we can proceed with the agenda the rest of the agenda and the first item uh for which our fire dog is here uh is recognitions and donations and we have an opportunity to meet ashes the Fire Dog uh as well as to to thank uh the generous Don owners uh who have helped to make that possible we have Chief rosan and assistant chief uh shrom with us this evening to make these introductions and to uh let us know what is what is up with ashes you got it uh well good evening mayor and Council uh we have a very special guest tonight um and we want to formally introduce Ashes to to council as well as take a minute to uh recognize and thank uh Hugh and Julie Tibido and Julie is here tonight uh for the Their donation their support of our program uh over the last few years uh We've better addressed you know firefighter Wellness especially uh mental health of firefighters uh with our uh immersed mental health specialist but also ventured into the world of of getting a k& therapy dog uh research has shown and also working with Jonathan bunt our immersed mental health specialist um that these types of programs have been very successful to reduce stress and fatigue uh of First Responders we've seen uh a growth of the program uh both uh broken Center police and fire departments as well as multiple other fire departments um around the metro and state have ventured into this this program as well so we're pretty excited uh for that to to be the case and to have ashes uh so not only will ashes be utilized by our firefighters to improve their their Wellness uh in dealing with stress and mental fatigue of the of the work they do we'll also be able to utilize ashes as part of our community outreach events public education opportunities and of course out on critical and sensitive incident scenes so as part of Ash's training which uh Chief schr will get into just a little bit um she will be able to go out both in the fire station and go out to uh critical incidents and provide that comfort and Care both to Firefighters uh First Responders and also to members of the community so with that being said I'll introduce Neil to introduce ashes and kind of talk about some of the training and obviously we can open up for for questions that the council has well mayor members of council thank you for having me and Ashes here tonight I'm honored to be able to share our program with you in the entire city as many as you know the fire department as the chief mentioned has placed a strong emphasis on our mental health of our firefighters and being Innovative and Progressive has brought us to uh to include ashes as part of that mission as well the development of our therapy Comfort Canan program is one more example of this approach and while only a few months into this program as the chief mentioned Ash's presence for our firefighters uh in the firehouse has been quite evident on a daily basis beyond the impact within our Firehouse our program has been able to begin expanding its reach to all of the city staff I'm frequently requested to make visits over to City Hall and have subsequently become the most invisible employee we have subsequent to Ash's Shadow and I'm totally okay with that so not only that she's also been uh directly involved in several of our community outreach events uh including just our general training around the community we've been at rosale mall several times I'll talk about that in a moment but each one of those opportunities have been great Outreach opportunities for the fire department in our community as well so while this program has required the support of the city and fire department I would miss not not to once again thank the tibidos for the generous Financial donation that has made this program possible in addition to the tibidos generosity rosale Center has provided both financial support as well as being incredibly supportive and allowing us to train within the mall helping to prepare ashes for her work in highly Dynamic environments so for those people who were there over Thanksgiving when we were there apologize for the Barking in the corridor but uh it was a great experience if you follow her on Instagram you saw her Santa pictures as well while we were there in addition rice pet clinic which is just across the street of Rice Street in Little Canada has been very generous in providing Ash's first year of Life uh vet care for free as well as providing a lifetime discount on her Veterinary Care as well lastly I want to recognize Soldier 6 and trainer Tom who provides us with our weekly training and guidance on preparing ashes for her service dog certification and specific training for her therapy work to come for those who do not know Soldier 6 is a local nonprofit organization whose mission is to provide service dogs to Veterans First Responders and first responder agencies who are in need of the life-saving benefits of a train service dog while their mission is straightforward the work that goes into achieving this mission is immense from the coordination of trainers who will teach handlers and dogs alike to the huge fundraising effort that has to occur to meet the financial commitment it requires to get a dog from puppy to certified and even to maintain that certification for the life of a dog at a cost that can easily exceed $30,000 we're grateful for the support of everyone mentioned above our entire community and the council for your continued support of our firefighters and our mental health program any questions that I can answer questions ashes what kind of dog is ashes ashes is a silver lab she came from a breeder in North Dakota just south of bismar ties to per Minnesota as well which uniquely uh Soldier 6 um head trainer his name is Mike is a employee of kln Brands which is based in Perm Minnesota they provide dog food and uh not to be an ad for them but the wiie wabby licorice that you buy at the store is also a Kon family brand um so they they are the a key function and supporter of this entire program as well by donating them at Mike's time to Soldier 6 to be their lead trainer count and chief Brosnahan what is your running total of how many other agencies have asked you about how they can get it done well I actually got into a little bit of trouble at uh most recent Ramsey County Chiefs meeting so all the ram County Chiefs get together for this meeting and they were giving me some crap about how much of a hard time they're getting from their city managers and their city councils of where their dog is at um so uh but yeah we've Neil and I have um fielded frequent questions from from departments and we've just kind of said the same process I mean some of it depends on their agency and what they're looking for but um we' feeled quite a few U inquires on how to get a program like to started other questions because we short so um how often can we have ashes come visit us during our meeting Council anxiety frequently as you would like we we don't want get to burn out ashes too quickly I would say was that fun if you don't follow her on Instagram at least you can see her uh her common Adventures each and every day so check out the Instagram that she's created for herself as well appreciate the city staff that's helped support that effort as well given given that she's so Adept with it is she helping out with people who can't restart their computer absolutely absolutely is she are you her main person is she with you all the time she go home with you and things like that is that yep so she comes to comes to work with me Monday through Friday which allows us to have her exposed to all of our ships since our firefighters were 24 hours at a time um so she comes to work with me Monday through Friday and then she comes home with me at night and sort of integrates with our dog dogs and our kids at home uh and then long term as she gets through her certification and is a little more confident in herself she'll certainly be able to spend the night at the firehouse if a crew is looking for that activity as well but I'm trying to make this as a as much of a stress reducing opportunity for the firefighters so the the work side of what goes into training her and getting her certified isn't necessarily falling on them but I saw that too is being taken care of falling ashes so okay thank you I don't think it could be understated the the sacrifices that Neil and his family and Christy who is also a firefighter with our fire department is kind of his or Ash's uh you know secondary uh trainer and so the bringing a dog into your home especially a puppy um and some of the training that's involved is of obviously you know has impacted their lifestyle and their home life and those things too so we really appreciate the the sacrifices he's made with that so um a sign a sign significant contribution um of of Ashes uh came from Hugh and Julie Tibido um obviously the tibidos are no stranger to the city Roseville as well as the the public safety departments uh they supported K9 programs uh AED purchases health and wellness initiatives Etc uh so when I originally brought the idea of a Kine Therapy Program to the city manager uh he said well David that's a great idea but you got to find some other way to find it so uh he recommended we go find a way through donations and we did that and we uh reached out to Hugh and Julie and so uh Julie's here with us tonight Hugh unfortunately couldn't be with us uh this evening but uh I sat so we sat down uh to to talk to Hugh and Julie about this program and and all the benefits and some of the need things that would come from it and Julie looks at me and she says well how much would it cost so we gave her a number um she thinks about it Taps her pen a little bit and then promptly wrote us out a check for more than what we we asked for uh for the program and so I think that just goes to show Hugh and Julie and the contributions they've made uh the great stewards of the city of Rosell that they are and so we'd like to publicly thank Hugh and Julie for the work they did to get us up and running with with ashes and with this program so hi so again we'd like to thank you for all the work that you've done for us and helping us get this program up and running and being such a supportive Steward of the fire department police department in C R yeah it's been wonderful and we did get to take Ash's U like maybe her third day with us we a to take her over and visit with with h and jie so just next week or so that was probably a condition of the of the contribution ashes will visit plenty of Ash's time sure for sure wonderful um if the council's okay with it would you be will to take a picture with ashes jul absolutely just tell us where you would like us to I I don't know if I plan that case put bunny ear behind Wayne well it's over here we can be with Wayne Wayne that might be better resolution over there but we can turn Wayne Any Which Way [Laughter] you're G to get funny light yeah way yeah where's Wayne headed he'll be on the right okay the TV gotta jul you got kind of Blue from the screen little closer maybe yeah you perfect three all right that looks great one more three good awesome thank Youk thank you so much welcome photoing the dog follows you about I think so so hard not to borrow her she's so cute we need to uh probably Way Wayne can you turn a little bit to your left I guess be his right is back all right once again thanks to everybody uh including certainly the the tibidos but also as was mentioned rosale and the veterinary clinic and everybody who's contributed uh to support the effort uh of having ashes uh serving our department and our community uh and we look forward to uh as she grows up and grows into that role uh and has that certification with that then we'll proceed with the other items uh on our agenda uh and this gets into our business items uh and the first business item is item 7A which is to have a discussion of the Stope scope duties and functions with our representatives of the human rights inclusion engagement commission and we can certainly take a moment if we need to to kind of get set up for them so don't we take just a couple minute break for that we can get back on here in our meeting meting we're back uh from a short break just to get everybody set at the table here uh for this discussion I want to welcome the members of the human rights inclusion engagement commission who are here this evening uh and to thank everybody on the commission for their work uh over the last uh several months I think in this effort uh to uh you know provide some thoughts as to scope duties and functions and I know that you've been having good discussions and being thoughtful about this uh and so uh maybe the first item is to go ahead and I know our chair was not able to be with us this evening uh but our vice chair Amanda Becker is here uh and if you'd like to introduce yourself as well as the other members of the commission and then we can uh get into the conversation sure yes I'm Amanda Becker and I've been on the commission uh almost three years now so Elliot Elliot Frank um Dave tidball and Kathy mccomber welcome so I thought it might make sense uh and certainly anybody who can correct me if I'm wrong in this assessment but it might make sense to First hear from the commission uh you know as to sort of your thought processes what you uh noted or observed during your conversations things that stood out to you uh either about you know uh existing language in the uh ordinance related to your commission and well as well as what you're proposing uh us to consider uh and just kind of open it up to the commission uh to begin with and then maybe we can follow up with conversations and questions if the also wants to do that so I'll turn turn it to Dave um Dave and um chair uh rich and myself had an initial sort of subcommittee meeting to discuss the scope before we brought it to the Commission in full so um Dave and I have a little bit more intimate initial uh insight into how things started to turn but I'll let Dave speak a little bit on behalf of sure our subcommittee yeah um we met for a couple of hours after getting the directive to take a look at the scope and see if there were any adjustments or things that we felt need to be made and we had both read it previously and spent some time in email back and forth about things but still we met for a couple of hours and went around about several things relating to what the scope was before and the conclusions that we came to was that we wanted to find a way to it felt like it was more complicated than it needed to be um some things were more specific than we thought should be in a scope document um and it felt like some things were repeated in several different ways several different times and it just seemed like maybe we could simplify it too so actually we changed very little in what we thought was the content and the overall meaning of the document even though it looks substantially different when you just first look at it I think maybe the easiest way to describe what we did is to look at the title of section 20502 which in the original document is purpose objectives duties and functions and in the document that we proposed merely says purpose and function um it felt like the scope document should say more broadly about what our mission is what areas we should be covering and things rather than getting into more specific objectives and duties which seemed to be in that original document there were some things um specifically for instance about evaluating programs and policies as if we were supposed to on an ongoing basis be involved in doing that all of the time a number of things were like that in the original document so rather than taking out those two things we decided to do a document that describes what we thought was the role of the commission and how it functioned within its content parameters with that role and that's why we came up with what we have here which is basically three different roles that we feel like the commission does it's it advises the Council on matters pertinent to the content that we work with I used the word Ambassador because I think of an ambassador both as one who communicates to an outside audience what it is we're all about and things but also an ambassador receives from a Community Information um needs and things like that and expresses that so that's kind of a two-way communication thing that I thought the term Ambassador fit and then um an advocacy role for human rights is both an educational kind of role to make sure that human rights are always considered as important and part of the work of the city um but also for people who feel like they are having difficulty ities that their human rights are not being respected that they have a place where they can feel support for what what their issues are and help them be addressed appropriately so the basic meat of the new scope document is to describe those three roles for the commission and then finally because of course we do realize that the commission does specific things within that scope the very last part of um 205.000 2 describes the process which as I understand it has a fairly long standing that we put together a work plan each year we collaboratively agree that this should indeed be the work that the commission does this this year and then we go out and attempt to do that work and report back on what we've done and that process is an ongoing thing and that's where we narrow down to specific objectives because they can vary from year to year as needs arise as issues come up and things like that so as essentially I guess those are the differences we stripped a lot of that language out of the scope document and put it in the work plan discussion that we do um together on a regular basis I think for us um this felt like a good opportunity our commission has really been trying to land on some of the questions I had when I first came into the commission which were what's really our mission and vision as a commission because this actually initial scope document felt really um intense more like a job description to me than um kind of a understanding of what we were walking into and what we as a group were going to come once a month and sort of um have action plan around and so this felt like a nice opportunity for us to take a look at that scope and really figure out what what what we are because from this opportunity we've been able to really start we've doing a lot to work around the semantics of what our our commission is doing and I think that's helping us firm up our work plan more because that as well has been when I first walked in and and seen our work plan alongside the scope it was a it was a little confusing to me there felt like a disconnect and um there was a lot of time spent trying to figure out why we were doing things on the work plan with what the scope that we had all walked into and signed on to her so I think this really was a nice opportunity for our commission to work together and say what are who are we what do we really want people to read join the commission sign up participate and then hopefully when they see our work plan and they join subg groups and they have an action plan everything feels more cohesive and and feels like it it allows space for us to be flexible as a commission but I think really understanding that we are we want to be ambassadors um we want to be Advocates and we want to advise and and being able to with those three words come up with like a value statement that we care about people in this community that our commission is about relationships that's what we're about and that to be able to put that into less words um but but strongly I think it was really important for us so so I guess we weren't super surprised when there was a little question around why it looked different because we were really intentional about the exercise um I think what it does is help us align our activities well with it's clear how they derived from the the proposed scope document change and then that lets it flow into the processes we'll use in the work plan and the activities we do to accomplish the goals yeah more specifically and in agreement um it allows us to to accept a mission and a Vision Direct all of our activities towards those and yet assign a structure that then allow in turn allows us to Define objectives within the scope and a work plan for each of those objectives and we're actually in process of that right now yeah we've been working on that so we're hoping you'll accept the scope so we can continue to do that you don't have to change your whole work plan and um U I stopped halfway through the process after the subcommittee Met um I did an initial draft writing of this the whole commission spent 45 minutes or more talking about it and with a couple of small wording exceptions decided that this indeed did fit what we hoped you would agree to and so that's how you Reed the whole commission voted on it then and that's how you receive the document that you have right um and I did want to just I realize I don't know how many people at this table were involved in the drafting of the original or around for the drafting of the original code so I thought I'd just take a moment to provide some context to that uh because I acknowledge that it is very specific specific and and um was a lot of words and and it it came from the evolution of two commissions into one Human Rights Commission and Community engagement commission and how to make sure that we um you know respected the the the somewhat different but yet similar sort of areas that those two uh work in and so I'm not surprised that it's it was probably overly wordy um and very specific uh but we were trying that's that's a part of what we were trying to do was just trying to make sure kind of everybody understood uh but but I you know I can definitely you know I I don't take it as criticism having been involved in that drafting that uh that it it uh certainly can be improved and and and I appreciate the notion that you have of of simplifying and being more straightforward about things I think that that is it wasn't so much a critique as since we were given an opportunity to rework things which was a good idea we thought to take a look at it we felt well we might as well do the best job we can and so it looks a little different but I again I think if you look at what it's designed for I think it the intentions the scope of what we would what you could see people doing on a commission like that is really virtually the same it's just done differently and I think clearer for us at least more clearly and succinctly and what all the members not just in consensus but in an unanimous consensus feel is that the work that Dave and Amanda and Rick did um to create this document meets the essence of what we think was what was intended by the original document but defines it for us better so that we can actually to our job and still meet your original intent right uh questions uh council member strong thank you or thoughts yes well I know you guys have had a problem with retention and do you see the rewriting as a way that would improve that with a different understanding of what the goals and expectations are for the organization I having been in nonprofits mission and vision are high on my list of things in which drive us when in our work so I I think so I actually was thinking that especially on the way over here just um I think again having come in you know about three years ago now just having the opportunity to hopefully set up new people coming in to feel more confidently like um we've you know in this recent future looked at the scope and it feels feels like something we're all in alignment on and building off of um I think it almost feels like we have a kind of a New Foundation built like we took a little time to rebuild the foundation clean it up and we can build on to that because I think we are aware we we are concerned about retention we're concerned about Outreach we're concerned about getting more youth on our commission again I think to do all of that we're kind of right now in the not quite as fun work of doing consensus workshops figuring out an action plan figuring out our language it's not the most exciting work and it doesn't feel for some of us like this is why we joined the commission is to figure it out but the truth is it's a commission that's going to continue to evolve and change as roseville's needs change and demographics change and um so I think the exercise is is worthwhile because we need to practice together as a group being in alignment on our words because so much of what we do is about the people in the community and and we were finding that out when we were going to events and people were saying what is this Human Rights Commission and I was you know I don't want to direct people to the website it's like what are three words we can use to we're ambassadors we you know help advise and we're advocates for you you know finding words and language that feels easy that we all agree to and that can hopefully make people in the community be more Curious and show up or participate so absolutely I also think you know how it is when you start something new it's like drinking from a fire hose and you can't figure out which of the many things you're being exposed to are the critical ones and what priority I think this language change makes it very easy to see the kind of Mission Vision value scope thing and drill right down into what will be our work plan activities and be able to say yes I can see that this links to this this links to that and I don't think it was as clear in the original language and it makes a lot of sense if you're trying to merge two disperate things and keep everyone happy and and in answer specifically to your question uh council member St the the what this allows us to do is when we recruit people to serve on the commission it is a volunteer commission the people who apply already have the drive they already have the desire to do these things but if we can present to them here is our document here are our Three A's that that fit our our mission and our vision and plac before them here is our structure of how you would fit in and where you can make choices to be part of it that you can do a lot better getting people to serve and stay on the commission I think we can meet and exceed the expectations of someone new coming in where in the past that might not have been exactly and I'm I've been sitting here listening to them say wonderful things but actually they left out one of the most important parts um we've been spending a couple of months worth of meetings working down to what goal do we want to have for the work plan for this year and you hit one of the two that we put on there which which is which is to create a structure for the commission an internal structure for the commission that helps us Define for new people what we do helps us along the way to retain people and as we as people leave helps us to capture some of the wisdom and experience that they had while they were there that is one of the two primary goals that we're working on on the work plan that you will see in March when we get back together so yes that was top on the agenda as well right other thoughts or questions oh I was I was going to say if if we wanted council member grath to participate he'd have to refresh himself on how to use the raise your hand feature we would have to refresh ourselves on paying attention to that I see he has done his part and I appreciate that being pointed out to me so uh council member gra sound muted nope we're still not hearing you can't hear it's going out and in wants to come back okay all right any other uh while we're waiting for that any other council members uh or do we have to wait for uh council member gra to come back so that he's not he's missing something okay okay right did you have a I did have a follow-up question um I don't know if in your assessment of your scope if you considered membership number because you guys have a larger uh commission than some of the others and so that means there's always four or five new people coming on uh given so if there was a consideration on whether yours should not have as many people as we recruit for new people so that there are less new people but then you want enough blood to do what kind of work so I really especially respect Kathy given your duration on how long you've been on this group so I don't know what your thoughts or what if you guys address that I I don't think we thought about reducing it because the it's set in the in the legal language but there is a lot of work to do and we do a lot of it through subgroups that are under the Quorum number so I'd really be uh concerned of we've in the past been down I don't know two or three members and it really impacts how much we can get done so no I think in this instance this commission works really well with that many voice at the table yeah we would have to limit the especially the Outreach um Ambassador and advisory work that we do if we had fewer people to be able to share the burden as it were counc member gra is back council member gra your thoughts or questions oh sound still no audio yeah sorry so Pat as the host of the meeting can you check if he's muted he's un par okay so at our end we we should be receiving it by try his phone we might have to have one source for video and one source for audio if that works we go to other council members in the meantime B questions council member shter thank you so much for doing all this work um you know obviously it was time to relook at it as as our mayor talked about your group was bringing the two commissions together and actually that's how the nine started too because they didn't want to they wanted to make sure people from both commission could be on it so that's where that nine came from and and and it's you know most of the other commissions are at seven and then that was going to be one of my questions about um you know is it do you need to look at how you do the subw work and stuff to make sure maybe seven would work better for you but obviously you've you not You' to already talk about it on that side so I'll go on to my other questions and comments then um I did want to revisit um what the role of the commissions are according to chapter 201 of the advisories commissions it says advisory commissions are established to provide a method for Citizens input and our advisory to the city council and so that's where I started from because that's where commissions are are developed to do to help advise us particularly and I was looking at your purpose and function and this this first paragraph you have there I think there's a really nice job defining what the city is trying to do for me though it's too broad and I I think it would make sense to bring it down to what specifically the commission does to help this and actually that first paragraph under empowered and directed by the city council which is that Shall Serve to advise the city council and present and preserve and propose City policy programs and procedures to ensure they are designed to and it's inclusive and promote activity and respect human rights to me that actually sounds more like a purpose for a commission how you wrote the other one was beautifully done to U talk about what the city is trying to do but for me it seemed like it needed to come down a little bit to how it's specifically for the um commission and then um I have to say when I read the paragraph about The Advocate Part and thank you for talking about that because I was um you know a couple of comments on that one was this it's suppos you're supposed to advise the city and not individuals and so I was a little uncomfortable about that becoming a legal issue if you're out advocating for individuals especially if they have something against the city so to me that that that was an uncomfortable piece on that and that um I think speaking to our city manager that a lot of times um those type of issues are handled at the state level and not at the commission or and and the attorney could probably talk more that and so that this particular paragraph I was being a little uncomfortable particularly since the liability and and going back to that the job of the commission is to advise us and that Advocate Part I'm I'm having a little trouble so maybe you could talk around that a little more to explain how do you how do you deal with those issues and just maybe just really quickly I think specifically the way it's written it sounds like you're advocating for people who have human rights uh issues that the city is being accused of yes is how it kind of looks like it's being worded and so I think that's why I was that's why I was uncomfortable so so what did you really mean to say what we need to understand we um we talked a great deal about that sentence and be being an being an advocate for human rights is a a difficult position to be in because it almost always involves a variety of different Authority structures because supposedly a violation of a person's human rights has been done by some entity usually a group what whatever it is could be a a business a labor union a City a state something like that you know we did not intend it to sound like we would be involved in legal matters um what I remember of the discussion was that it is sometimes a very lonely thing for a person to believe that they are having human rights problems with an organization with a government or things like that and it was more the feeling that a person like that needed somebody to help guide them through the process help be a communication um conduit do it for um things to feel that they were in some ways at least supported in the in in the difficulties they were having and we the reason we actually included involving the city was that we had left that out it would give the impression that we would be get involved in any human rights problem that any citizen had with anybody and we thought that in a role of advising and all that also that ambassadorial role we felt like we had more of a duty to help help the communication happen help help people understand how they go about doing this or doing doing that or doing something else we the the discussion if I remember it right was that almost all of this legal work gets done by the State Department of Human Rights and that's appropriately where it should be um so we there may be a more clear way to word that but we felt like some it was a part of our mission to help that whole process um have good outcomes and particularly as it related to the city small C City yeah I think that's the the thing that that caught attention to is when it when when this the word city is capitalized that tends to refer to this organization specifically and I don't think that's what you meant I think you meant the the city more broadly but not outside our city limits necessarily yeah if if and I think what we envisioned also is that if we're acting as advocates on a human rights issue it's an advocate to the city council specifically for resources or anything that the city can do to be of assistance not because the city is the source right and it the the messages often come it's rare that someone would come personally to the um from the public would come into to the one of the meetings they certainly are welcome but we do get the messages through the inbox for the Human Rights Commission which also goes to whoever our staff liaison is and we never have and never would um try and work through something without engaging City staff that's kind of but we're the we're a conduit for the information whether people no matter what they feel like they're violated that we have we listen yes and pass it on to the appropriate and often and recommend them to the Human Rights Commission for the state if that's where it needs to go and I think that's why we did decide on on May serve as an advocate because I think that there that is kind of what the commission comes together and sits around and we do have multiple voices and ideally we have multiple voices and perspectives to have these conversations when people do come to us with concerns I think it is important that we hold a space for that conversation and dialogue and that we may have to advocate for them which we would then come present to you as an issue that something maybe the city can I think you're right the wording isn't quite right involving the city but might be that the city could in some way support change so there's probably some language adjusting still Rebecca too on yeah being more clear well and I think you know just as an example something that we had thought about as a as a maybe a hypothetical during the drafting of the of the earlier language was the notion that if through the receipt of individual people's individual issues over time the commission sensed a trend about well this particular type of in infraction against somebody's human rights seems to be happening a lot in our community perhaps then the commission could say um you know not specifically advocating on behalf of an individual even but saying this issue seems to be in the Forefront of our community you know we've had some discussion we think here are some ways that perhaps can be addressed in the role that the city has to to address some of those issues and make recommendations to the to the city in that regard that was something that I think was a part of the thought process as we were initially envisioning this and I don't know if that kind of matches with at least part of what you're thinking about in in this area is that that's exactly what we were thinking about and the hard part with this one is I you have to have this kind of conversation because when I first read it it sounds very like we're going to get into life trouble and you're thinking seeking just resolution that also makes it sound like you guys are trying to come up with a solution for this issue for the individual and I guess this is why I'm feeling uncomfortable with this paragraph on if you know if you're talking about more on um educating and um finding a space for people to be able to speak you know that that's makes a lot more sense versus and so if we have to have this kind of conversation to try to Define this then say if you're all gone and we're all gone the next group might not understand our conversation and so that's where having something a bit more clear on this and not and not from the Le aspect of it and and I think you know being that that these two council members are involved more broadly in the sort of the updating of our code language it might make sense if we wanted to if you wanted to and you wanted to to maybe get a couple of the commission members together with these these couple of council members to to work through after we're done with this discussion you know where wherever we end up kind of putting the language to it that that works for everybody going forward and I have one more question sure this is an easy one I think why did you take out the perform other duties and function as directed by the city council that came off of the uh old um I guess because that's in all these commissions yeah I I wouldn't object to it being there it's just that the paragraph right before that pretty much says what we how we function on a regular basis specific projects and initiatives designed to you know we put a work plan together we talk about it together we agree that that's what the work plan should be and one would think that in that whole process whatever whatever the council wanted us to do or whatever we felt like we should be doing should be all taken care of well we're trying to have a consistency in the formats of all the commissions so that's that that's what I what I said if if if it helps in the whole process to have that sentence in there I don't see why why we would that's what I wanted to find out if I don't see why we would object it's just we didn't put it in there because it seemed redundant to what we were writing so you didn't you didn't spend 40 of your 45 minutes talking about that so no actually we didn't and there have been some directives that are ongoing um that we are making sure that we include in our work plan as well things like proclamations for example and and so on but certainly if we had a directive we want to make sure that we address it and I did want to get back to council member gra because I I know he had wanted to be a part of this and and and wasn't able with technical difficulties it sounds like we got it back on the phone so voice so we have audio all right council member G still can't wait it's got to be here transcript is showing him speaking but we cannot hear him so it's not coming out over our system here in the chambers maybe yeah yeah microphone is green can you just turn your volume on your laptop my volume can hear that but it's gonna be gonna be an echo I keep trying okay and he just signed in using his phone is the computer the problem but he has to be visible well he hasn't he has to be able to see us it's if there's not going to be a vote it's less of an issue you can allow him to participate but he would it be considered present at the meeting as a voting member under the open meeting law but I don't I don't this is a discussion item so I think I'm actually just wondering if he could try signing in using his phone not just call using the app on the phone for both audio video technology move away like my my work computer won't do certain things and so I have to use my phone for reasons I don't understand and don't appreciate he's back but we still can't hear the volume was off on the thing the volume for Rebecca's got the answer here I don't know if you can hear LS of we just can't have's EO there okay now we can hear you okay good I'll make it very brief I just want to say I appreciate the work they've done I think this is getting to a lot of the points that I've been worried about or concerned about as far as retention and direction and understanding and making the uh goals and and work uh simplified the other document was too complicated so I think what we're doing now you're headed in the right direction and I support that work and if uh if a council member Aton and Sher want to talk to them about those two issues I'm fine with that I think that's a good idea thanks thank you council member gr right just have to make sure we don't have echo of situation uh Council strong I know you had wanted to mention something I did um I just wanted to make sure we didn't remove from them the power to be a mediator by be through advocacy um when I go to the State Department of Human Rights uh website it indicates specifically that local human rights commissions are essential to building a thriving joyful Minnesota typically established by Charter or ordinance local commissions operate at a city county or Regional level to protect human civil rights promote equity and inclusion local commissions engage in a wide range of activities from mediation to education and Outreach so I don't want to mute their ability to be an advocate um for others within the city to be that space because if they're not going to be able to be that then I don't see that they should have human rights as part of their name because it is um part of the essence and the meaning of what a Human Rights Commission is and does is that they serve as that advocacy piece and so I don't want to remove that from from their ability and their goals and their actions and I appreciate I think semantics there can be adjustments but I think the ease of 3 a um is a great reason and we have to find a way to firm up people come in excited we have to make it easy for them to be able to engage and get involved and stay and um I don't know what we're going to do to engage and make um make uh request that uh the chair Becker stay on but um I think we need that continuity to make these things work we so appreciate the work you've done but I I just want to make sure we're not getting into the detail saying that they can't have a space beyond because to me that is inherent in what the purpose of these groups is well I do I just want to be careful though certainly that language at the State website is encompassing of sort of all human rights commissions across the state and different cities do have different roles for for their commissions um and so just because it's mentioned in the states sort of general statement doesn't necessarily mean it applies to every city I think they're trying to Encompass sort of the range of things that different human rights commissions across the state do so that would be my only caution there that we don't you know that we don't necessarily give ourselves a role that is only there in another city because it has a specific Charter provision that says it does that or something like that so but but that being said once again I think there is a concern on the part of the council I'll express it uh that I I don't believe and I and I'll say it this way I'll say it two ways one is I think there is a concern uh that representatives of the city as an organization take on a role of advocating for individuals in individual cases um I don't know that that's would be considered appropriate by the folks that put us here in in these positions um and second of all I I don't know that that's entirely fair to the members of the commission either to put folks in that role uh because that may not be something that that a particular individual or individuals are knowledgeable about or maybe want to do or feel comfortable doing um and so that would be my only caution once again is is is we need to think about it in a way that that provides for the best preservation and advancement of human rights in the community uh maybe not necessarily involving specific advocation for a specific case and a specific individual um because sometimes um there are there are always a lot of factors that can be involved in that that we may not all be pry to so that that's just the caution I would put on on there um go ahead I um if it would be appropriate just as a process of working on this um since I take it council members Aton and Schroeder are kind of working on this scope thing together um it's unfortunate that part the part of my brain that likes to work with words and writing doesn't work well with the part of my brain that needs to listen to what people are saying so I have jotted down a couple of ideas for possible different wordings but it just to sit here and actually do that is not appropriate okay but I do the same thing though if if it were if it were appropriate for us to have some back and forth via email some suggested language work around that a little bit take it back to our next commission meeting and talk about um suggestions I had suggestions came back to us um and a possible rewarding at least of that first sentence in that section um to see if we can come up with something that retains what uh council member St was talking about about the need for um human rights to be uplifted as an important emphasis but without putting us in the wrong role Visa the government and things like that I think I've got a shot at a couple of ideas for language for that but this is it just doesn't work to do that here but if it's okay for me to do an email exchange um we can see if we can work something out between now and our next um Commission meeting um to see if then we can hash it out there and take a vote on something to revise that part I think that process makes sense and I think that's kind of what I was envisioning oh what I mentioned earlier uh council member Aton you haven't had a chance to weigh in yet here so I don't mean to put you on the spot but certainly want to give you that opportunity several as as member gra mentioned several of my questions have been addressed and I appre appreciate that everyone's bouncing these ideas off um you said I think as you were talking about how uh you came to this new proposed language you said you're keeping uh using new language simplifies and clarifi clarifies things but is retaining the old themes and broader purpose is that fair that's what we think we did yes okay um how does that then clarify your concerns with it in congruity between the code language and the work plan oh um the the way we wrote the scope gives us basically three different broad roles um the advising role Master role the advocacy role at least the way it's written now which was a kind of a neat pneumonic thing to do um within those roles in any given year there could be things that were in that old scope that we might end up doing there's a fair amount of language about evaluating City policies and programs for instance something that it appeared to me when I attended the meeting back last May where all the diversity um uh equity and in you know all the Departments it occurred it seemed to me that they were already doing a lot of that work and they actually have the expertise to do that work but there may be sometimes where you need another opinion um actually sometimes it's better to have an opinion from folks that are just don't have an expertise in that so there may be some times in a work plan where we need to do some evaluation of something and we would get together and agree that that's what we needed to do that year and we would do that but if it's written in the scope it makes it look like we have to do that all the time and um commissioner Becker and Commissioner James both sat there and said well we've never done that you know and I I've only been on a year you know but they've been there three or four and they said well we've never done that so it either looks like we're shirking our duties or that's not something we're really supposed to be doing and in that case why is it there you know so that was part of the notion of taking some of those specifics out it's not that they're not important or that they might not be useful at times just that it gives us the flexibility to determine when they're us useful and why they're useful and we get to we decide that together were there other things that's that's a great example thank you for that David uh are there other things that um you pulled out for that kind of purpose that kind of reason I don't use the word purpose and get it crossed up but you know other there other specifics who said hey we need to pull these out because we're not really doing that or we don't do this very often and it seems strange to have outlined here I think that's how I think it was specifically how it was outlined because I remember my first or second Commission meeting seeing the work plan and saying so where's evaluating and where are we advising and where are we engaging and those three words to me if in my brain I had to put them up on a board and map out the work plan it was just like a disconnect I'm just I'm like an engage is such a big word we better be engaging or what's what is how are we even effective if we're not engaging so like I didn't even want to see engage in here because that's just like that we better be doing that that should be built into our our words so what words that if we have to every which is our plan every fall we are going to actually do a consensus workshop and decide what our goals are for the year not our work plan our goals those goals have to come from our words our our values and our mission and if we can be you know we want to be ambassadors we want to um advise we want to Advocate we'll disc that but you know if those we know those are our three um guide posts then that allows the Commission in whatever state whatever members to have a clear idea of what our objectives for the year are going to be based on our goals based on those three things and I think trying when we were trying to do that before those three abs and C's just felt like they weren't they weren't in line I think with what we you know we're hoping to accomplish because I because I think we do I think retention is going to come when people feel like they've been part of a work plan part of goal setting they've been in the community they've been talking about City things feeling a participatory experience and I think we just have to practice doing that work right now in the Commission State we're in and so we are we're doing a lot of that work and that this really was an opportunity for us to take a step back and and say like then semantics let's like figure that out and and those those were the three specific words that I think we felt like we don't need to rewrite this this still works in a lot of ways but if if someone was going to look at this come on we want them to be able to feel like those bullets are in line with clear and understandable from the very get-go and that as they get deeper into the work they see the alignment instead of like you say looking at it and saying evaluate number one here is evaluate we never evaluate yeah we kind I and I do want to take another opportunity to provide some of the historical context just that at the time this was originally written we didn't really have that capability as strongly as we do now on staff we hadn't we hadn't gone through the gar process we hadn't done a lot of the things that we did and so I think the expectation of the council at the time was well we'll give that to the commission to do and they'll do they'll do all of that for us and and it'll be great but I think the reality is that we we've evolved as an organization which is such that that became really confusing to you as you came on to it um I did also just want to note officially that nothing bad happened to Mr Frank he just had another obligation he had to leave yes he had to leave I'm sorry so I just wanted to note that so that folks didn't start to wonder what was going on I didn't want to shorten your yeah yeah he he was not upset with the conversation as far as we know but council member if you had other things you wanted to go over I'm okay for now that that helps because I wanted to get into what pieces you were pulling out and with what intention yeah see I was looking through here and we we got going on other stuff there's a there's an item that says recommend strategies for actively promoting and encouraging effective and meaningful volunteerism which isn't a bad idea and the city staff has a whole program that does that and that's not saying that sometimes it might not be a good idea for us to take a particular niche of that and do that it just didn't seem like it needed to be in the scope document at the now because and and the mayor was correct back in that the environment was different sure and so and that's again that's why we we've had this project of it's time to rewrite you see there's a great deal of wisdom in going through this apparently reing absolutely I did want to provide a little bit of feedback on my part as well and I know I want to be respectful of people's time too because we do have a few other agenda items and we don't want to keep you all evening although we we enjoy talking with you um and this is very helpful um what just an observation I had was that it it seemed like in the uh in the organization of the draft that establishment and membership is is pretty much handled basically by the first paragraph and that some of the second and third paragraph get into that purpose area and that's just an organizational thing um so I don't want to dwell on that but it's something certainly through the process of conversation with our with our able drafters of all the rest of the code that that we can we can work through that and get some consistency there um the other thing I want and and the other part of that is that it it came across to me as I was reading this that uh and and I don't want to use that language because it might not be right but but that that the human rights aspect of it maybe wasn't enough in the Forefront of those two or three paragraphs there um so it's just a maybe a recommendation that as we look to tweak this that that we find ways to make sure that that isn't sort of receiving short shrift in the language there um um and I'm I'm going to maybe just a little bit respectfully disagree with uh council member schroer on the first bullet point about the advise I think does really fall more under sort of Duties and functions rather than roll or overarching over the other two but I don't want to it's just kind of off top of my head after hearing that comment so I don't want to dwell on it too much say that again mayor please well um I didn't I didn't want the first bullet to sort of become something above other things because I think it is one of the three areas as I understand the way it's been structured so I didn't want to to sort of pull it up and above everything else but there may be some some language from that that may be able to shift and that's because the original charter of all commissions talks about they're advising and that's why I was thinking that so um but yes absolutely I agree that that this commission doesn't have to be doing a lot of what the original language was asking for because we've evolved and changed from there so I appreciate that I I did want to just ask maybe for some elaboration about sort of the the what you envision as as to how the Ambassador part works and maybe in what areas of what the city does or what's going on in the community or whatever how that looks or what you might be doing as ambassadors uh because I wanted to make sure I understood that um that part of it because that could once again maybe be interpreted incorrectly by a casual Observer I think I I'll speak personally but I hope that there's some of this in my entire group but I think a big part of using the word Ambassador is um being a part of a commission feels like such a nice entry point to participating in Civic life and I think that we're all really hopeful or have had a lot of conversations about how do we get more citizens involved in Civic life and I think that of course the initial reaction for everybody is nobody's going to care about it until something matters to them but I disagree I just do I think that we have to take that word Ambassador and we have to go into the community and we have to be excited about what it means to participate in your government because it's our government and I think the more we can do that at schools the more we can do that at our senior housing and our apartment meetings and that we can show up and say from our commission that we are an ambassador not just for human rights and issues but for the city that it's important to learn about what it's like to be on a commission a commission that values people and relationships and what it means to be part of a community is to have a commission that cares about your rights and you being included in those so I think an ambassador is a great word for us because we will make people feel included when we go out there and tell them they are in they are included and so I think that that's a lot of our work it's it's not it's not um engaging showing up all the time and so I think we when we talk about our work plan and our goals it is about how how do we show up and when we come when I go to a high school events and I don't have any kids but I care about these kids in the school how do I show up with my Human Rights Commission badge and what am I saying you know I want to be able to say to these kids who are excited about govern government that this is an opportunity for them and and it is something that kids care about because they might care about parks and finance and planning they might but they they sure better care about other people and not feeling lonely in your community and caring about we have a a lot of space I think to be a touch point for um bringing people into their civic life that's that's kind of how I feel about ambassadors other thoughts from other Commissioners too we've um we've done a certain amount of brainstorming about things just people think of ideas and stuff and um we think it might be a useful thing for the commission to develop um what would amount to a database that includes a variety of contacts with a variety of different groups and organizations in the community both so that when there is an issue that we want feedback from seniors from recent immigrant populations various things like that we have some kind of relationship that we are working on with them that we can acquire good firsthand information from people who are part of this community about how people in this community feel about certain issues and so one of the things this isn't in stuff we've talked about for a work plan this year I don't think but one of the things we've talked about is developing an ongoing type of contact database kind of thing that we have ongoing relationships with a variety of folks possibly working with the folks in the communications department and things to develop context also because I think hidden perhaps too well in that section is the notion of a truly inclusive community and um another thing that we've brainstormed about is having a kind of a the kind of a program that a speaker's Bureau uses to take this is who we are this is what we do to a whole variety of different constituencies and actually Amanda does some work with taking uh people's stories for instance we talked about having a program that actually takes stories from a range of communities smaller communities within the larger communities and makes that available through one of us on the commission to um Lions Club programs um neighborhood programs programs at senior residences and things like that where we just talk about what's it like to be in includ what re what community really is Roseville because we all get in our own little neighborhoods and niches and it could be something for an ambassadorial type of role to make sure that we're all um um I lost the word um introduced to each other so that it's not a shock to people from one part of the city to know that there's this whole immigrant community over here and they have these issues and things like that it seemed like a role that on an ongoing basis a group like us could play since we are community members and um we thought that might be kind of function but this this is all kind of brainstorming stuff that we've done on occasion and I don't think any of that's in the we talk about for this year but anyway those are just some kind of reactions to that very briefly we do the typical what you might think of ambassadors are the FaceTime the tables at juneth and at rice larpenter and so it was very helpful to have name tags with their names on them and in this last year we got t-shirts with um City of Roseville and so we're just another face of the city out there approach aable and I'm willing to talk to people and give away goodies marketing goodies that they can put in their bags and take home I I went for instance to um a session on uh homelessness um at the Lexington Parks Building couple of months ago um Prince of piece Lutheran has been working on this I've lost the name of what they call that yes okay and um there were people I mean it was really cool because the whole police Community Action team was there literally but there were people who talked as if they didn't know quite how to get in touch with people who do the policies about this kind of thing and I was able to raise my hand and say I'm a part of the human rights inclusion and engagement commission and this is one of the kinds of things that in trying to make a truly inclusive community you know we are supposed to advise the city council about things like this so if you were to talk to me or someone like me about this we would see that you know if you didn't feel like you were getting there in other ways that you're you know we got your information to people and that's you know just showing up as Kathy was saying in places like that we get a chance to do that too thank you I appreciate that uh C strong did you have comment question follow um I just wanted to really I really appreciate the Ambassador item um feel like that really reflects the E and the i in your name equity and inclusion um over the last three years it has been the most frequently requested commission for people to be on sometimes having far more people than there are opportunities for membership um it's been the most diverse of the people um ethnically and um geographically and socioeconomically of any gr one person and so I appreciate you taking the look at it um holistically I I think as soon as you leave out any one part of the h r i or E then it becomes a whole different entity and so I I um just make sure that my fellow Council um members remember that this is all part of the piece and that this is an aspirational for all of us to be we really appreciate you being there appreciate how well your group is represented at the parade how you you show up and be there um not everybody has the most respect or or um trust in elected officials or uh First Responders or other things and so you are kind of a conduit and I appreciate that and I want to make sure that we lift up your interest in being that Advocate Ambassador if that's within with some parameters um so be it but I I think that all of the A's are really valuable in the work that you do and I really just would want to find a way not only all of you but maybe even class members find out you know I know a lot of people have come and gone and and if we could find out if something like this would help help them stay around longer have you know if they had a more specific Direction I I don't want to get into the semantics where we're limiting and actually making it harder for we want to be really clear so that people feel like they getting what they signed up for and that they stay because it is what they thought it was and I don't want to get I realized that the words were created in a certain way but as time separates us and a pandemic separates us from that creation of this combined group maybe those words don't necessarily make sense anymore and then people who weren't on the commission at that time are able to look at it with a fresh face and fresh eyes and able to make it better and um different at the very least different and have it be so that more people feel like they can stick it out and not only for their one term but maybe stay on for two or fill that partial term and that we have because it's a lot more sexy and looks than being on the Planning Commission or the finance commission so we have to figure out how to make people feel like it's worse to get around other uh comments or questions from Council Members or follow up on the conversation I I did want to check in with uh our two Representatives who are working on this with all the commissions and and see if my suggestion was something that made sense to you in terms of working with the commission on perhaps adapting this language I I think I had one question from something Becker had said and it's kind of I think then other people have kind of brought it up more so um thinking about that Ambassador role that's broader than human rights is that what I'm understanding that you you envision the folks here that they would be engaged in representing the city in more ways than that I think some of the conversation has come from understanding that there's two commissions that have come the human rights and the ethics engagement Eng engag Eng and so I think we see that as the engagement piece but not apart from and maybe the inclusion clearly what Comm commission we are yeah yep um one of my questions around sheer amount of time time and not just because this would be a big thing to be aware of and be at a lot of events but to be aware of and understand the things the city is doing all the time because that put you in a tough role where you show up and say hey we're here to represent the city right we we're here to represent the commission okay I think that's I'm here in the city and the city broadly and okay I'm saying Roseville and the Human Rights Commission we I think we we don't step outside our lane no and I think my my dialogue I'm not really as much worried about stepping on the side lane as the tremendous amount of work you be talking about the amount of information you didn't know the amount of that's the kind of thing I you want to be reading all of our planning cases about all the land our job and so I'm trying to trying to find where that but I think we should I think our I think some of our responsibility should be to guide people to a website or to City Council meetings City Council meetings happen on Mondays at 6 p.m. if we don't know that like we should know that you know I mean all the details I agree it's it's too much but we can certainly Ambassador point you to the department that so it's to help facilitate that engagement and that inclusion of people in as you had said the Civic activities right you can't feel you want people to feel included so and knowledgeable and know where they can go get their resources and that they're invited to come to these meetings I think that's important that we include that sometimes it's a I use the we use the word explain here to explain how they function um sometimes despite every effort you could possibly make it's difficult for people to look at something that's an official document um an official policy an official procedure and talk to the people who are responsible for that as just a citizen um because it feels like there there's a kind of a a power differential thing there regardless of anybody's intentions that way sometimes it's nice to have we're all volunteers we're citizens of the community and sometimes it's it could be just like talking to a knowledgeable friend down the street and saying I really don't understand this I want to understand it but I really don't understand it and you could give the same explanation but it wouldn't wouldn't have the same meaning it wouldn't have the same feel to it as the next door neighbor kind of approach that somebody can give who's a volunteer um who we have no enforcement Authority or anything like that we wouldn't want to have anything like that um but to to to be an interface like that to to help a person deal with whatever issue is like that might be a useful thing for people like us to be able to do to to stand in the middle yeah thank you does that make sense then to as the followup from this discussion is to try to synthesize all this into an update to this language that uh that can work and go back maybe to the commission for for their uh reconsideration at that point you know the only thing I would say is what we want to do is if you almost want to give this to someone who has not been working on it and say when you read this what do you think it says and I think that's kind of what I'm looking for is to so when we're not you know um you know cman Reston said that is when none of us are around anymore if someone reads the document will they be able to understand clearly and I think that's what that's what that be your charge right and that's the charge right to make sure that's what we're working towards and that maybe when you write I I know I've done that before then I'll hand it to someone who hey will you read this and tell me what you think and then that you get soone because when you work on something a lot you have so much of the background behind it it it sometimes starts to look a little different so yep all right that's okay well I appreciate everybody's time this evening I know we went over our our time so but I think it was a good conversation and helped helped understanding hopefully kind of both ways in terms of of where everything's kind of coming from so um why don't we make that the the charge then to the uh to the folks on the council as well as folks on the commission that have been involved in this to to try to maybe uh you know may make sense to me but I'm not going to tell you what to do in terms of if you can do it via emails that's fine too um but whatever um tell me what that will be I never can I never can Council all right uh thank you again to everybody Council M gra anything we missed or anything you want to make sure we talk about or you feel it's pretty well covered uh I feel it's pretty well covered if you can hear me y yes we can yay I think it's pretty well covered I think that uh you know the commission's work is good I think uh council member Schroeder's thoughts are appropriate but I do think reading through it I try to stand back and think of what it sounds like to a lay person or Su who hasn't worked in human rights for years and I I don't think that's a bad idea but I think that the this the commission has done that already good for review though thanks right thank you thank you so much for all your enjoy the rest of your evening all right we're approaching our 8 o'clock hour does it make sense to take our our 8 o'clock break all right why don't we do that we'll take a short break here set up we're back from our short break here uh and back to our business agenda here uh we're up to be so we will move right into that right away 7B is to consider the purchase of an electric vehicle fire engine or a diesel fire engine for the fire department we have our chief and our assistant chief back and I understand that ashes is not assisting you with this part of the meeting she here in spirit all right welcome and look forward to your presentation this evening wonderful thank you mayor and councel uh good evening as the mayor pointed out with the introduction the main purpose tonight is just to have the open discussion and hopefully achieve some direction from Council on uh stance versus a an eeve vir engine uh purchase or continuing with our convention conventional diesel player engine um just quick you know background um uh sure you have the documents there within your packet uh kind of go through the pros and cons of both the diesel and Electric engines uh as well as Financial impacts of both I know that's been uh a question that multiple council members have had to kind of walk through and talk through uh we have presented at the finance commission as well um and I know Miss uh petrick is here as well to to help answer maybe some questions that maybe I just quite can't quite answer as far as that go that goes um we have been in the past practice uh of fiveyear replacement uh based B off NFPA recommendations the NFPA recommends a fire apparatus is switched out after every 15 years um in total but in a first out capacity uh between five and 10 year increments is their recommendation um the two driving factors for us to be here tonight and so why why you're asking why tonight uh one is we're looking to to save in save some money um our main goal is to lock in uh 2023 pricing for both the diesel fire engine and the electric vehicle engine uh as well as the construction time frame right now it's between 14 and 19 months for an electric engine between 21 and 24 months for a diesel fire engine so getting uh locked in prices the at the 2023 rate uh as well as trying to get into the construction timeline and uh the construction queue if you will uh with our uh with our vendor so those are the main reasons that we're here tonight to try to kind of walk through and talk through those processes um as far as the the timeline um Neil and I have been looking at uh replacement options for our engines for a couple of years um in 2022 we started the conversation at least about electric engines uh then in early 2023 um I brought the idea to of the electric engine to the city manager um he and I along with Neil started to kind of look at pricing cost uh the CIP Department goals City sustainability goals and thought it would make sense to bring it to council sooner than later um we talked about that maybe about a year or so ago and then that's when we came to City Council in summer 202 23 which you can see here uh during one of your CIP discussions um uh the assistant chief myself came up for maybe 10 or 20 minutes and talked a little bit about um Electric engines diesel engines we also uh discussed ambulances versus the the current medical rescue uh vehicles that we have um so from there uh late summer we invited council members and City leadership to uh take part in a demo operation uh that we had we had a demo vehicle and I think three came out uh to kind of poke around take a ride in it get a kind of a feel for for what we're we're dealing with and what we were kind of talking about in November uh or this fall I did first of two presentations with the finance Commission um for the request of the mayor and Council to have the finance commission look at apparatus and and timing and and those types of things so I did that in November and then in uh January this uh past couple weeks ago uh did a second presentation with the finance commission to talk through um kind of the the pricing the impact uh to the budget and impact to long-term uh finances for the city the finance commission uh voted or at least decided uh recommended to council that it would be best uh to to go the EV route uh looking at the options for for bonding and for for the equipment notes which we'll get into in just a little bit one of the questions and conversations that came up when we were here before the last time and when we were doing the demos was um how many of these vehicles have been purchased how many are in service where are they at and so I worked with rosenbower just to give some sort of a visual uh example of where uh worldwide the trucks are at how many are in production how many are in service uh in North America so far in service we have uh Los Angeles city fire uh Vancouver just placed one in service Rancho cam California is placing one in service the Navajo Nation and then Clark County which is Las Vegas Clark County is actually using a demo unit right now they have it on lease for I believe it's four or five months uh went in service just ahead of the F1 race that was in Las Vegas a month or two ago and is uh incorporated as part of their Fleet right now they'll be purchasing um one or two of those units as well most recent orders from Boulder Colorado they added a second which was an order that was in place when we talked the last time so they purchased a second one um and then just sort of aside not St Paul fire is uh in the process of doing their final inspection on theirs and we'll be taking delivery in the very near future as well so I'm just a quick look at what's happening sort of around North America and then you can kind of see on the on the other side of the map just showing uh worldwide where the vehicles have been purchased and where they're headed for in service operations training and and subsequent being placed in Frontline service for those departments as well when we look at the process um to get to where we're at in the context of a new vehicle something that's a little bit more Innovative um I wanted to take just a second uh each one of these pictures represents a different area of uh what we will call proving of the equipment uh so when rosenow was in the R&D stage they knew that this was going to be a question that would be asked of anybody that was purchasing something that's new and different in the fire service especially in North America as we tend to be a little slow on the change uptick uh and so the the truck itself or the project itself went through some very significant TR uh testing which is sort of abnormal in the fire service we don't spend as much time as maybe a typical car manufacturer might on R&D work they don't you just don't see them building vehicles and then putting them out for that robust testing so just a little bit of a glimpse of where the vehicles have been um and as we look at that just to kind of take sort of the um the proving work that went here we look back at what lafd has done so we have about a Year's worth of data from them now um the vehicle went on a little over 3200 calls a little over 8,000 Miles um all told their energy backup system which we've talked about ran for 45 5 hours consuming about 50 gallons of fuel so for them diesel fu is a little bit more expensive on the west coast but an estimated Savings of 4,500 gallons of diesel fuel which is right around $25,000 for them in an operational year period so from the perspective of saying that the vehicles should or would do this um they're seeing that as a a very confident working solution in the in the field as well some of the benefits uh of at least the EV piece that um we've talked about with conso it's been in your your packet as well but um we've mentioned over the years but uh the fire safety ones are are critically the reduced cab noise and the ergonomically enhanced design are uh substantial for longevity of the firefighter uh we've talked about kind of the steps uh currently a diesel fire engine we we step down about 24 inches um every time we get in and out of the vehicle where with the new vehicle or an EV engine it'd be about four to six inches um reduced uh you know lifting and and uh lifting heavy items over your head everything drops down to pretty much your forehead level uh so some of those pieces uh we did mention as as Neil just did in the last slide with with LA County uh reduced operational cost of apparatus we could see anywhere between you know 8 to $15,000 a year of savings between fuel oil um deaf and and other uh drivetrain maintenance things that we do uh we believe at this time that it increases the life cycle of our primary engine uh Five Years on a first out capacity and then into a 20-year total time frame of the vehicle where we're currently at you know 5year incremental and a 15-year uh life cycle of the engine um we also think it's important to be on the Forefront of Innovation we get that there are sometimes risks with that and I think that you know the fire department as well as the city has never really shied away from being Innovative or creative with with many of the things that we do uh and also I think it's a huge plus to have a Minnesota manufacturer um I think that's uh going to be key when we have service items that we need um they are also very large companies so getting staff support um and getting repairs done at any kind of need are happen very quickly and I think that'll be a positive with with working with this current manufacturer who we do have a pretty long established relationship with uh just kind of a cost uh side by-side comparisons we've uh shown this uh time and time again uh so right now the conventional diesel engine uh is right about $1.1 million um if two years ago you would have told me that a conventional diesel engine was going to be$ 1.1 million I would not have believed you um so postco we were still under the full assumption that it was around $750 to $800,000 for a fire engine uh but postco those L between equipment shortages labor costs um it has balloon to price you see today so that is what kind of drove us in the last year or so to say is there a better option A better long-term option something that would work better for both operations and and financially for the city um so you see that on the side here um with h with a $ 1.8 million EV engine a 10year uh replacement schedule there are some grants and reimbursements available we've been working with Noel bachan um in the Parks public works department um on some grants and reimbursements that we might be able to to work into uh to try to reduce this price a little bit with uh this next one um talking about the financial piece and this is what we uh discussed or presented also with the finance commission um so on the top if it's a little bit tough to see is the cash option um of our our table uh it completely depletes our our CIP equipment fund and this is with just the diesel um going that direction as well as then on the bottom is what it would look like with a 5 to eight year and it's looking as though um with Miss petrick's recommendation as a seven-year note would potentially be the best potential option um as far as solvency with purchasing a diesel fire engine as we move to the next one this is again um similar tables uh but with the electric uh fire engine again would also completely deplete our existing um fire and Equipment fund and then um with an equipment note uh for this one because of its longevity of of 10 what we believe to be 10 years uh before we'd have to replace we do say stay solvent uh for a longer period of time with uh the the approach to the EV engine and doing the the approach of equipment don't not bonding Chief if I could sure just um just mention here so as as as the council may be uh recalling that we need to have some attention to this fund here over time um because of these really big purchases and increases in prices and so um as you know each year with the CIP we do look to tweak what our contributions are to each fund uh and we identified this early on as something in moving forward we need to make some substantial investment in to remain solvent I would say with either of these options we use the equipment note um it's important to remember that we're still increasing our debt Levy with new Levy dollars uh we either need to come up with new Levy dollars to pay for that debt service or find other sources of funds um contribute less perhaps to a certain fund although as we've been looking at that that's still going to be a struggle even if you do this one time here so while the chart looks good is because we're taking that out of the equation and funding it through a different source so I just want to be very clear so the debt service is not in these numbers correct yeah yeah yeah um and so so I just want to really be careful uh and and make sure it's really clear to everybody on The Debt Service uh for um for diesel engine uh over a seven-year Noe just 4% interest is is is a point is $187,000 annually uh for um uh electric it's about 290,000 so that's the difference on an annual basis now if you did not want to do an equipment note you could also look just to add um additional Levy dollars into the cap Improvement fund into that particular fund and fund it through that either way you're still talking about an increase going with the equipment notes is a little bit smaller for an increase of Le of new Levy dollars or repurposed Levy dollars we have a lot of options and we're not necessar here tonight to sort all that out but I think it's important that you understand that tonight that if we make a decision we still have to come back and figure out funding strategies for this and most likely it's going to impact future budget Cycles regardless of what we do uh electric or diesel it's going to be a decision we'll have to be creative as we move forward in the budgeting process but I just want to make sure that's really a clear understanding this is additional cost so and just to understand that too I mean one of my one of my Impressions when I was thinking about in past years generally using bonding to pay for Capital versus paying cash is if you use bonding you're taking this large cash balance you've essentially saved up and theoretically you're taking a little bit out of that each year to help pay for the debt service and so I don't know that it has to be a situation that 100% of The Debt Service is necessarily coming from new Levy as I understand it because theoretically you could be taking some of that from the fund itself that you've set aside for that cash purchase I think the Challen yes I I would follow that too and that was my my my thinking initially too but as you look especially with the fire equipment fund they're so expensive and we haven't inflated those costs that we're going to run into problems again uh very quickly uh even if we were to repurpose that 180,000 or 290,000 we put about 330,000 of Levy dollars each year we had talked about uh last year uh in future years putting additional $200,000 in there to help stabilize the fund we shifted a bunch of onetime money Public Safety Aid and some it money this last budget cycle that's onetime money it helps certainly but it needs some ongoing support and as you go further and further out right you know you're not inflating those numbers and the 1.9 or $1.1 million engine is going to be 1.5 2 million whatever it might be so it's something systemic we have to look at with our CIP but I just I I think it's important to bring that up just so it's not an isolation thinking wow we if do the equipment notes we don't have to worry about raising any additional Levy dollars or finding additional Levy dollars elsewhere well I think we have to think about our plan going forward too is do we do we move from saving up cash and paying cash for each of these to a model where we always use equipment certificates and we're just doing Debt Service each time not that that makes it any less expensive but then you know it's just another way to sort of handle the dollars um so but that's that's not necessarily like you're saying a conversation necessarily for this evening but part of the understanding right C to make sure we're clear on this that we would continue to use the same input we have right now for our CIP for the fire equipment and vehicle fund and we would have the additional whether we add to the levy or whether we do an equipment bomb um we' probably because of the shorter term thing here we almost need the bomb um because of these higher prices correct you're correct our initial analysis would show the continued Levy support of 300,000 plus an additional Levy support depending on what option you go with we would want to refine that of course as we get closer to it but um right now we don't have any of that and obviously with the electric engine if you get Grand dollars which are nice to think about but you can't count on right now um you know that could certainly impact that there's other options you have existing fund balances elsewhere to help pay that the EXs cash Reserve fund uh we've taken a quick look at other funds and don't see anything that's really that we can um adjust you know and as so as we move forward in time here whatever the decision is because once again even with a diesel engine we're going to need some some assistance and some creativity and how to fund that we'll be able to come back with some better options to consider and how to balance that very sensitive to the fact that just raising uh tax Lev by 200 or 300,000 before we even start on the 25 budget already puts us way behind given everything else um but but this is an issue even if we weren't talking about electric engine this was an issue we would have to be talking about as part of this budget process and how to fund this fund if we were just going with a conventional diesel engine the electric fire engines brought it more to the Forefront now because we're kind of at this decision point and whether to lock that in or not um and so it's a little bit earlier in the game than we typically get at but uh still important fact that I want you to make sure that you're aware of that cognizant as we move forward and if we can maybe just while we've got this graph on the screen so and if you compare it to the previous one you can see the big the big red next show got it there we go okay perfect the uh you can see the replacement timing for the diesel option is is you know more frequent Replacements that's the the red spikes there uh and then on the electric option that spreads them farther out which is part of the reason that financially it in the near term it it looks a little better um just to help us understand what each of those spikes are I imagine on the diesel side every whatever five years or so that is your that is your uh first out engine correct um and then I it looks like there may be another type of engine or some other apparatus down in that 2040 so that's what that's when like there's a ladder of replacement that's a 20-year cycle we bought our last one in 2020 so I mean there could be options to you know evaluate when to replace that and how that might be able to move around but sure that's what that's that's the bigger Spike you see in 2040 is a a dual um engine and lad purchase y here appreciate that clarification thanks right thank you for pausing for those those questions and discussion uh great discussion thank you um so uh we'll work with our preferred venure V as far as the electric engine a couple of the items um that they have proposed to us um is a 5-year bumper-to-bumper warranty which um is a great Advantage um I'm not seen a five-year bumper to- bumper warranty on a fire engine before um if there was there would be a substantial cost as well as the a 10-year battery warranty which would get us through the entire initial lifespan uh of it in a first out capacity um a a traditional warranty for conventional diesel engine is about a one-ear warranty um so Bumper to Bumper with that as well um would be on the table so those are one things uh some things that contractually Ros bow has reached out to us about I think they have a high interest in finding a partner uh in the Twin Cities metro that um they can kind of utilize and that we can also utilize their services um I think they're looking for kind of a a unique fire department that provides lots of uh different types of services um whether it's from like a headache to a structure fire to an elevator rescue and everything in between um that's what this engine does and so I think they're kind of looking to partner with somebody that does that not call 911 for a headache surprised how many do dep on the headache I suppose yeah ccer one thing I did want to point out on that 10year battery that's something we actually pay for it's not in it's it's something you would actually add an additional cost in for yep there is some cost associated with it um the one thing to highlight is it's not an option that they offer to any other customers so to speak it's something that they've uh they've provided to us as an opportunity given some of the questions that Council had when we were the last time so uh we went back to them asked them that question um they said yeah there certainly is some cost associated with that much like there is any sort of a warranty um but that they would be willing to stand behind it in an effort to to sort of show our Council that yes um they they are confident in its performance and and that is a part of the sort of that contractual agreement the battery warranty actually includes the equipment around the battery as well yeah it includes the high voltage system so that they're not um it's not like you're television remote where you can just pull the battery out and set it on the table it's a little more intricate than that so replacing the battery if you will is is a little bit more complicated just like replacing the engine in the vehicle is um so there are some Associated components that go along with the battery that would be a part of that process as well and I know that the 10-year battery warranty is a common time frame in on electric Passenger cars and hybrid vehicles that's fairly common so I don't know if you're paying extra for it one way or the other whether it's explicit or implicit well the warranty 40,000 and a replacement battery costs you 42,000 so just to give me an idea of the cost today it costs 42,000 yeah yeah exactly yep right all right so this was just a quick representation uh we mentioned the Departments that have trucks in service on order and so this was just to end it on sort of a visual of of what's out there right now the Clark County one which as I mentioned in Las Vegas up in the corner the yellow one um fun note that was the truck that we did the demo in so when we were doing the demo it was red if we remember that is wrapped in yellow in their fire department's uh color scheme while it's being used by Clark County as well so just a little note to play off of so we can handle any uh questions that Council may have discuss Council sh just um are there any benefits with the diesel over the EV it's the same thing we do today yeah there's consistency um consistency in our operation I mean transitioning to EV would there be some some training ahead of time that our firefighters would have to do to be better prepared is it would be a different piece of equipment that they would be operating um so outside of consistency I no I'm not thank you counts very strong I know I knowe the time frame for um getting the vehicle for the EV vehicle is shorter in order to lock in the pricing would we be delivering that then whole year sooner to the uh fire department if we were to go ahead with the EV uh it'd be about five I think between five and seven months earlier so I would anticipate it if if we went with diesel I would anticipate probably this time uh 2026 um or so Christmas time maybe 2025 and then if we would with Eevee maybe late next summer okay one of the things that and I know this is a question that we got via email too one of the things that Rosen bow is allowing us to do is to make the purchase now um they'll put the truck in its build queue and then they will build and deliver it um they will allow us to stay off our first payment or our payment of the vehicle until January of 2026 so that keeps us in our sort of replacement window and cycle and our training cycle for getting a new vehicle in service while also giving us a little bit of a tail end of when we actually have to make that payment to help with timing and sort of the finances side of it that's sort of a benefit on our end of it too thank you council member Aton uh thank you for we had some extensive responses that you provided to lots of questions for me so I really appreciate that um one question I keep having in the back of my brain you brought it up again is you talk about essentially the height difference between these vehicles why is the EV so much lower versus saying hey let's just build the diesel lower I don't understand so there's there's a couple of different things um one of the things that is really uh really driving the change is uh the e is not built on a frame so big diesel fire trucks and all vehicles until the late 80s early 90s were built on two big steel IE beams on a frame and everything got built on top of that um most modern cars now are built on what's called a unibody construction there is no more frame everything kind of comes together in one and that's very similar with the EV so the ev's frame if you will is actually its battery and it's living right underneath the vehicle itself so there is no big frame that has to have everything sitting on top of it when we build a diesel truck we take that frame we stick it on big tires and then we put everything on top of it and it keeps just building up from there because of the size of the components right so the engine that you put inside of a diesel fire truck is uh you know half the size of the table that we're sitting in front of right now and that just simply requires space um which keeps moving things up and up and up and unfortunately uh fire trucks are not going to get in that context any smaller because the components that make a diesel engine viable nowadays are only getting bigger I.E the emission systems um use have gone from a tail pipe that was the size of the chief's water container now to something that is this big around that has to get nestled onto the truck as well so that's the big driving factor is um the simple construction of being able to handle the size and the weight of of a diesel truck thank you um one of the questions I had for you guys is kind of data on we're looking at the potential for this being a 10-year first out engine and how we can know that um certainly in the US and North America you pointed out some some departments that are just getting them in line or had one for year and it would seem that Europe might have had them a little bit longer what's the longest that we've seen one of these in service so far anywhere so the testing um and that's really when they started with the project was uh anywhere between six to eight years they've been in testing um so given that context the the main component being the electrical Drive Line system is something that was developed by Volvo and that's been around for roughly 15 years in terms of the being confident in its longevity when we look backwards to say uh you know what do we have that's given us the confidence excuse me outside of the electric drivet trank component um the rest of the vehicle is using very similar components to what we have on our Fleet right now and so what makes our Fleet unreliable in the fire service actually is the drive line um nobody makes a diesel engine any longer quite designed for the vocation of the fire service and what I mean by that is most diesel engines are designed for semis they start and they drive for thousands of miles at a time before they get turned back off and that's how they're built um our vehicles start they go from start to driving at uh what I will say maximum load to stopping to starting again to coming back and then being turned off which is one of the hardest drive cycles of any uh diesel apparatus on the road and so that's where the reliability issues start to play diesel fire vehicles and this isn't unique to Roseville this is just unique to diesel engines being used in this location in general so when we look at that being the reliability issue our water pumps are not a reliability issue and it's going to have the same water pump as the rest of our fleet has so we have high confidence in that um we think that because of the transition to EV and based off of what um what moving parts and what unreliable issues we see with diesel being gone we'll have that confidence to have a reliable vehicle for 10 years okay one of the things we talked about again thanks for responding late afternoon to more questions but one of the things I asked about is what happens with our second and third engines because if we have let's say we have the new EV and it's going out for 10 years that puts those second and third ones at 15 and 20 years which is different from our current cycle and one question is do we need three I think that was a question that came up and and if so how are we going to handle that or do we have concerns at 20 years that that third backup that we might need for XY situations would not work well I think it allows us some posibility in that um you know looking at just kind of time frame right now we have three diesels obviously that go you know 2010 2015 2020 um I think if we were to fast forward to 2035 um looking at it I think that the 2020 engine um would still remain in service as a reserve uh capacity now a lot of it depends on on wear and tear and and how well it functions um it's compliance testing we have to do annual testing you know for multiple pieces of the apparatus as well as the pump system I think as as long as it's still functional and operational that we would probably continue it in a reserve capacity we didn't exchange emails about how uh our ladder truck does have a water tank and a pump and can function as an engine so there could be situations where in in a pinch um if we needed to and if this engine wasn't going to work as a third out anymore um in that Reserve capacity maybe we can transition to having that ladder be that that third engine if we really needed do we see situations where we need three or is that where Mutual Aid usually comes in yeah I think is we're we're we use the second and third one the first is getting work done on or whatever right so we want to have two pumper apparatus of some form available all the time we do yep um but I think it brings up a great topic for a lot of our shared services there's opportunities to partner partner with other communities to maybe it's a shared Reserve vehicle that a lot of agencies have I think that's a an opportunity that could be out there um you know why should us and Maplewood and Lake Johanna and whoever else have have third and fourth vehicles that are just getting dust and hang out the fire station what if there was a shared vehicle so I think that between that option um the extension of our current 2020 engine or potentially utilizing our existing ladder truck as technically an engine which it is and can function like one I think we have options to fill in those gaps that might exist orur so I guess Mike there are a lot of positives you've outline those my concerns are around the essentially additional $100,000 a year it would cost to move to the EV all of it's going to be more expensive no matter what we get um and that is a concern but it is a reality but that additional 100,000 and just being able to count on that 10year piece and how that affects our other engines and our ability to respond to things in our city so those are the things that I go how we making this work does this make sense I did want to make sure we checked in with uh council member gra too um because he's not on he's not on the screen anymore with the power maybe we need to bring back if he if he's prepared to be back on the screen maybe he's there he is um any uh questions or or comments you have council member gra that we I don't mean to put you on the spot if you didn't have anything that's fine too but uh how was my sound your sound is excellent okay great um well reading through this you know it isn't the first time we've covered some of this stuff so um I'm pretty comfortable with it the uh financing obviously has to be further research I like the idea of something lasting longer um just from an environmental standpoint having uh a vehicle last an extra five years is a big deal because there's a lot of waste to be getting rid of things that quickly of course the uh the costs are less per year for uh servicing the vehicle um I understand council member anon's concern about yeah but is this really 10 years or not but listening to uh the uh the uh Department's spokesman there say that you know they're comfortable with it I think I I accept that analysis and um I think being able to lock it in now rather than waiting for prices to go up is an important factor so so I don't have any real questions we've gone through this before and I read the material carefully and I thought it was well presented and uh I uh I would I would be supportive of going ahead with EV the electric vehicle so that's all I have all right thank you council member gra uh did want to check in with council members any further questions otherwise I want to make sure and provide an opportunity for public comment although I don't know that I see any members of the public who aren't otherwise here for other purposes this evening uh that being the case uh I would be prepared if there's no further questions if the council's prepared to take an action this evening in the form of a motion and the motion would most likely be a a decision between going forward with an electric or a diesel at this point is kind of the question counc M strong I'd like to motion to enter in into a contract to purchase an EV fire truck it's been moved by Council mayor ston is there a second to that motion I'll second it all right seconded by council member schroer uh discussion on the motion uh council member ston is the maker of the motion not much more I just appreciate your Innovative approach I think especially the the in um as more and more um Industries are regulated by OSHA and there's more changes uh coming down the pipeline um as far as safety um I think is really important that something that we can address like the height of these vehicles can be um there are so many physical challenges to being a firefighter the way the way it is so if there is the set small piece um as we look at trying to diversify our uh you know the amount of firefighters who aren't maybe 6 fo five gentlemen but maybe smaller people and um people who identify as women um that there maybe would be an opportunity if some of some of the factors obviously there's other plenty of other factors that require them to be very hearty but um but just removing something like that and I think being on that Cutting Edge I appreciate your honor ongoing both of your ongoing commitment to trying to see new ways to do things and look it's really great with a new dog so we're gonna trust you now thank you council member St if only we could power the vehicle with the dog not not the dog pulling it I the positive energy the power the positive energy of the dog anyway Council Mary schroer is the second of the motion yes um what I I don't think it's a if it was a when question for me and you know were we on the Leading Edge or the bleeding edge kind of question in my head and so um that's where I was going back and forth on this and um so I guess um you guys have done a lot of research on it and it is our future to go there it just again is is this the time to do it and it at this point looking at the different scenarios and looking at the information from the finance commission I know um this is you know has a big chunk of money more than the diesel you know but in the I do like to look at longterm on on these things and so um it it does seem to make sense at this point all right thank you other discussion on the motion right uh I would just add um I I agree with what council M schroer said about sort of being on on you know the where you want to be on The Cutting Edge or not I think that and I'm glad that the the Chiefs brought it up this evening the the technology with the diesel engines and and drivetrains I think you know a there's the issue with just they're designed for one type of service and they're being used for the fire service I I think I seem to recall in one of our past discussions that just the manufacturer of diesel engines for a lot of different purposes is is kind of going away at some point too which gets to what council member schroer said so I wanted to make sure that was part of the conversation um and and then I would just say that you know in my experience in my in my other job working in Industry a lot of apparatus uh that's Machinery in industry is powered by electric motors uh and electric motors have a tremendous history you know going back you know over a 100 years of being very reliable in terms of a source of Motive Power for things um and so that aspect of it it makes me fairly comfortable that this the 10e expectation is pretty reasonable uh I know I've been in Plants where they've got the same electric motor driving the same equipment that was there you know before anyone in this room was born um and so that just kind of tells you obviously there are other aspects that need to be can need to be maintained but I think we've got a pretty good track record just in terms of electric as a source of of Motive Power so I'm supportive of this and I think we we've got you know an indication that we can make the finance part work and I think everybody will be in that mode between now and when our payment is due in in January of 2026 uh and so that's why I'm supportive counc gra council member graph yeah just to add in you know one of our goals is to reduce our carbon footprint in Roseville and this is a this is a nice step uh to to show to the residents that we have been listening to what they're asking for and what one of our goals are so um I as I said before I support it and I thank the department for all their work and just to pigb on that I did mention to also say that this is exactly the type of service that seems to work really well with electric you know quick trips in and out um nice warm garage in the meantime um you know that and that's where uh a diesel engine you're getting into a lot of situations of idling uh where emissions are especially you know pointed as opposed to over the road where emissions are a spread out geographically but also generally the running situation is such that it's not as high of an emission as an idling situation so thank you council member gra for mentioning that and Council M sh also I think we have better opportun unities for Grants and and different ways of funding this even though this is a more expensive vehicle I think we might have some more opportunities to help from that aspect with the the funding of it it's still a big number but hopefully we can come up with some creative places to um get some help on it as well yeah it's our goal to be very aggressive with pursuing grants and reimbursements as we get into this for sure all right we've got the motion before us to authorize the purchase of an electric fire engine as opposed to diesel uh in this round uh and Mr CH would you call the RO please council member St hi council member schroer hi council member Edon hi council member gra I mayor row hi that motion passes unanimously and we've got Direction on that item thank you again for everybody's hard work on this thank you thank you to the next steps all right that brings us then to our third business item uh which is to uh look at the green too ordinance engagement strategy and this is in relation to uh towards enactment of a green too ordinance uh not necessarily this evening considering that enactment but uh correct so I wanted to introduce all of the representatives almost our entire Public Works uh staff C A lot of people you used to be promoting them now you've just cut them all I realized as I was saying it that I was like leaving out a lot of street workers and plow drivers and all the didn't sustainability sta exactly so with that Jason staff yes hello thank you for making it to this point in the council meeting um thank you for making it to this point yes thank you for St well yeah and before I begin I just wanted to check and see if it would be useful to go through all the specific ordinances of the other cities I've okay I've reviewed them in the the packet in the presentation we'll just kind of move past those into um the history of the discussion maybe a little bit why we're looking at this and then we'll go right into our recommendations for engagement um so we've been discussing this with the public works commission since March of 2022 or at least that's when I came on board with these discussions um we've had several conversations with them throughout the last year and a half and they are supportive of moving forward with an engaging strategy to get a sense of whether or not this would be appropriate within the community um some benefits to an ordinance like this it would reduce the use of sarone packaging which is one of the most egregious U materials it just it breaks down and just just incrementally smaller and smaller pieces but never really goes away um there are p and some of the takeout container materials that are in there so we can reduce the um continual um addition of that into the waste stream and it's also supportive of the mpca solid waste plan and we'll go very nicely alongside the Ramsey County food scraps pickup program that will be coming to Roseville sometime hopefully 2024 we don't know yet cross um and then it also adds consistency with other nearby communities so other communities that have these ordinances in Place Minneapolis has has been in place since 2015 um skip ahead Ed is the most recent one there was was adopted in 2022 um they gave their rep uh businesses about 12 months to adapt and comp comply now compliance is required starting this past July uh St Louis Parks was effective in 2017 they've been making continual changes with materials and exempting different things based on what feedback they receive from their businesses and St Paul's is also another recent one they're currently still in their educational phase with businesses they're not really doing enforcement yet um we may have some um interesting events we can follow their lead with that they're hopefully going to be putting on sometime later this spring um so implications that are specific to Roseville in this sort of an ordinance we don't do our food inspections they are done by Ramsey County um and Ramsey County doesn't have the author to enforce ordinances on our behalf so that would mean we would have to dedicate some kind of Staff time to do education and Outreach of businesses to let them know what's going on what the details of this ordinance are and what it means for them um food trucks aren't inspected by Ramsey County so that would be just another area that we'd have to consider for this type of an ordinance and Caterers are one entity that are typically excluded from these types of ordinances just because of the they're ba they may be based one place but operate many other places so it just makes it difficult to try to work with them individually on that um so what we are recommending for this ordinance is to follow the lead of these other cities um one entity that is consistently excluded as healthc care facilities just because of the nature of the food that comes in and out and how that's regulated it's much more difficult for them to conform with that kind of Regulation um and then foods that come prepackaged by a manufacturer obviously there's no way that they can control that um and there are some additional exemptions that we can maybe make based on what kind of feedback we received from residents throughout uh businesses throughout the engagement process um we're recommending complaint-based enforcement so not really taking a really proactive approach by going out and visiting um businesses frequently but if we get consistent complaints from residents that some business is not complying that we would touch Bas with them and see what we how what we can do to help um maybe invol that would involve some site visits some letters and that sort of thing um then we would put together some kind of an informational packet for new restaurants coming into the city so they would understand what they would have to expect from Roseville um there are quite a lot of BU um resources available for businesses uh we're really lucky we have bis recycling which is based through the county wastewise is through the state but also kind of works in tandem with bis Recycling and minimizes a new organization that's kind of involved with all of them that specifically focuses on reducing single use plastic items in restaurants um they have a lot of really great resources that they can offer to restaurants um there's also Grant grants that are available to restaurants uh they can get up to $10,000 to help offset the cost of adding additional bills or excuse me um additional bins additional signage um even containers and that sort of thing we do have some restaurants that have already taken advantage of those grants throughout the last few years um and there are more significant grants available for kind of high capital projects that are for really significant waste production which wouldn't really apply in this case so we're recommending an engagement over the next three to five months um our first opportunity to announce this is actually in about 36 hours at the Roseville business council meeting um so depending on how this conversation goes I'm planning to do a brief introduction of what that what we're proposing and what we're hoping to engage with businesses on um we have a couple of surveys that we've drafted so far one for businesses one for residents that we includeed in the packet for you to look over and we we get those uploaded and ready to go on the website pretty soon so we can start Gathering feedback pretty quickly um we'd also like to do two to three kind of conversations listening sessions to talk with businesses about what they can expect from this ordinance and understand how we could maybe support them through the transition process if they were to um move into that space um there are many speakers that we could include from Ramsey County um we've also recently spoken with the Chamber of Commerce um gr Roseville excuse me not gr visit Roseville is also involved in this and as well as the Hospitality Group um they're all kind of we're keeping in communication and we're going to be discussing how we can all collaborate on these types of things too so that we can be as supportive as possible to restaurants if if we would move forward with this um and then we would also do some um mailings and flyers to restaurants um when we did our bu business Outreach in April of 2022 uh the mailings are a really successful way to communicate with businesses so that would be a tactic we would use to communicate all this as well um in about six months we would recommend bringing this back to this group to discuss and see what we learned throughout this process and here you know make a decision of whether not it would be appropriate to move forward with this ordinance and then if we approved it we would give restaurants at least 12 months to adapt go through their inventory um and find ways to get new new material materal and then we would also work with things like business Recycling and waste wise to help connect them with suppliers that have access to these types of materials as well uh post 12month phasin again we mentioned that complaint complaint-based enforcement um depending on staff capacity we could also arrange annual site visits to restaurants just to explain the ordinance look through their inventory see how we could help support them um this is a tactic that St Louis Park is actually taking right now and I'm hoping to go on a visit with some of their annual site visits to see how they manage those and how those conversations go um and then as I mentioned that informational packet for new restaurants so was a pretty record quick presentation um so any questions I threw a lot of information there's a lot more that was kind of included in the packet and that that we didn't discuss but so the so the main ask this evening is to kind of go say yes or no to the to the engagement plan or offer any suggestions or tweaks that we have in that regard absolutely y all right with that in mind questions or feedback from Council Members Council M I love the feedback idea and I I think that 36 hours if you're ready uh sounds great to get it going um I just was wondering I was thinking on um Jamie Becker fin as owner of MAA that I know she's done a lot um on her own and I just was hoping that you guys would be able to maybe lean into that small business space um since all of her product or all of her um materials are recycled and such she probably has kind of a what what works and what doesn't work and then it seems like it'd be really nice for a small business that maybe they would have a resource of um I don't know if a buying group so to speak but maybe a resource um you know if you need straws or something here you know like if they if we were searching out that information if we could keep some type of kind of contact to make it easier because a lot of the small businesses maybe have limited capacity to be checking pricing and and if we're getting some of that information or someone wants like Jamie Becker wants to share that information and um you know they could maybe be kind of a community resource to one another I think that would be really helpful and getting uh enthusiasm around moving something forward exactly and that's one of the things we're thinking with those kind of community conversation listening sessions is bringing in restaurants and businesses like MAA latapatia misant or some other ones that come to mind that are already using materials that would be in compliance with what we're proposing so they can talk about their experience and how it's been for them obtaining these materials um tips that they might have with finding the right materials and trying to you know convert what you're currently using into something that's either composable or recyclable so we definitely plan to lean in on those resources and lift those restaurants up as great examples as and we already have in certain ways but not necessarily for their takeout containers so feedback questions comments uh counc M gra and then okay um thanks thanks for the presentation I I I agree with council member St that the uh feedback form is really important um just one question I had was what have you heard from other cities that what bumps in the road have they had and are I'm sure you're factoring that into the process you're doing but can you give me any examples of that or has that been looked at we have talked with other cities quite a bit on some of the difficulties that they've been having um it's been kind of a mix of different challenges across different cities some have been actually having a really easy time with things like large chain restaurants where they've already had to deal with this in other cities nationally where they've had to adapt so it's not as much of a burden but there was another city that said they did have their biggest issues with chain so that might be that's kind of where I'm really interested interested to start getting that feedback from our local restaurants to hear where they're having issues um I had some really early conversations with a couple of local roal businesses that have gone through the biz recycling Grant process and in the last 12 to 18 months really the supply chain has shifted quite a bit from there weren't a lot of things available a lot of restaurants were really scrambling to try to find different materials that would work for their food um now there's just a lot more options out there I think now the bigger issue for restaurants is really Staffing and kind of some of those challenges so I'm sure they're not really going to be really thrilled to hear about this so that's kind of why we're going to really push some of the resources that the county and the state can offer makes sense thank you Council sure yeah and actually on that note too I did like in the Minneapolis ordinance where they held a packaging Fair including manufacturers and distributions with you know that could actually help because I think especially small businesses they just don't have the time to research these things and so the more re you know especially if they actually have an opportunity to talk to a manufacturer or distri you know someone who's Distributing that I think that's really a nice thing for them and in here we talk about there's 108 restaurants and I guess my point would be let's make sure we talk to and get feed back from a lot of them because again small businesses may not want to take the time have the time and so what if if the if they respond with the mailing great but you may end up having to go out and visit more than you might think and so with 108 I think you're going to have to figure out how many each week you're going to have to hit to get to that you know six-month period or whatever so yeah and we've talked quite a bit with um just internally about some of the challenges that some of our local restaurants might have especially we have some immigrant owned restaurants where they also have other soci um Social Challenges that they're dealing with on top of running a business on their own so we plan to do as much Outreach as we possibly can and and a packaging fair is one thing we've been talking about for a long time from since we started this process um that's one thing that St Paul is hoping to plan a couple there was going to be one in the fall but it never want up happening so hopefully there will be one this spring that I can attend and start getting some resources and copying the things they do and learning what they did wrong so we can avoid that so yes that's a good point learning both directions exactly but yeah trying to help connect um businesses with those resources as as quickly as possible is something that we're really hoping to do counc BR hi someone who brought this up about a decade ago um I don't know approximately super excited about your work and um about I'm I'm actually really excited to hear that there are more resources for restaurants I know we paused that discussion because we had this pandemic thing and we didn't want to put pressure on folks so uh to be coming out at this point and that there are more resources and hopefully because of that the prices are U better for restaurants that this can be something that will be a change but won't be an insurmountable problem for for folks so I appreciate the work you've done so far I think the Outreach you're doing this is going to be great um will this include things like uh the to go uh bars whatever at berer Lees or at Cub it could apply to certain things in Deli so I know St Louis Park in Minneapolis it does apply to certain Deli items um but there may be a case for exemptions based on just availability of materials that are suitable for certain packaging types of things um so like if they have salads that are you know readily prepared I think that would be an easy thing where they could have a a compostable or recyclable container but things like deli meats that go in a bag that might be fall under that kind of there there was a film that's excluded in Minneapolis that's less than 10 micrometers thick or something like that I'm not sure what yeah I wasn't thinking about like you're getting your deli meat packaging but yeah if you're going through a buffet line that the end of it bar has a wonderful array of things it's really a fantastic thing but um but a lot of that could theoretically be considered takeout stuff right and um could be packaged I would think in the same way that if you were at misant or something like that so correct so we have I believe the C was around around 30 some other food establishments that are not necessarily restaurants but are convenience stores grocery stores that sort of thing that we would also include as part of our Outreach okay yeah I just thinking obviously a community store is almost always going to be getting prepackaged stuff from a distributor different from some of the other things so yeah except for the hot dogs on the rollers just they they never leave the rra the hot dogs where's the food safety testing those babies no but I think that's a good point because you know there are things that the various grocery stores prepare on site for people to grab on the way out and part of that engagement process will let us know how feasible that may or may not be for those rest those grocery stores to be able to comply with that sort of thing so all right so uh I guess the main question here this evening is do we have issues with the proposed engagement plan uh do we want to rewrite all the questions on the surveys let's do that for the next survey 10 p.m. yeah we our hope with the survey too we really don't have any demographic data on our restaurants so we're hoping that we can maybe gather a little bit of data on that as well and also just get some information on how residents perceive this and how what are their Recycling and Organics composting habits and how can we kind of use that to inform our process with the food scraps pickup program as well so all right good great so uh I don't know that we need to take a formal motion I think there is no objection to proceeding as outlined so with that go yes would you go home take care of yourselves well I will yeah stay tuned for a a brief presentation at the Rosa Business Council on Wednesday morning so thank you very much thank you appreciate all the work on this and this is uh the Public Works portion of our meeting and that's why we got the the representation so our next item uh in that category is to receive our storm water update pardon me oh oh um and so we've got Ryan here this evening to uh give us that part all right mayor councel thank you for this um it's I don't know how quiet I'm gonna follow up all that but um I think this is just as riveting so UHS are pretty exciting I know I try I try um but um I don't think I've ever done this for the council before we did like our uh surface water management plan a number of years ago um but I don't think we've done something specific like this Jesse's probably done it in like the work plan uh things like that but uh this time you get me uh so basically this is just our overview uh we're going to go kind of through all of our uh ins and outs what we do with the storm water uh fund and you get to see uh um kind of how the sausage is made in here so so this is what uh infrastructure looks like in Roseville 126 miles pipe goes in Every Which Way Direction uh the red ones are our pipe uh green ends up being a private pipe um historically we haven't tracked a lot of the the green private pipe but since they Connect into our system it is way easier to know that if you know uh there's a basically a spill at a site where that pipe goes to to connect into ours and then where it goes down the line so it's uh it's a little bit more work and I thank Gelinda our G coordinator all the time for uh appeasing my questions and helping me out um but otherwise yeah it's like we have you know almost 9,000 almost 10,000 other structures between catch Bas and manholes all the way across the city that you know uh Steve's Weber and the streets crew do a fantastic job uh maintaining and keeping an eye on and uh we also have some wonderful residents who you know adopt storm drains and you know do some of this volunteer stuff that actually helps us out a lot um once you compile on top of that we also have rain Gardens infiltration basins things under the roads you can't even see and those are things that we add into this too so we're watching everything from the pipes catch Basin uh manholes NS and we have ponds included uh and all these functional ones like the ones that infiltrate water and you know those are handled much differently than just like our pond or obviously a pipe so we have some uh specialty uh work that we do in here um just to make sure that that these do function uh we need them to function we obviously have some uh overall drainage issues across the city so each one of these dots is there to supposed to help kind of reduce the issue um help improve water quality um so we rely on these things a lot and as we started talking about the drainage issues you know this is about half of them uh these are more of the critical ones around the city um not just like some of the nuisance backyard ones that we get um those ones are those ones do have you know multiple properties draining somewhere but you know it's like these are the ones that you know stop the flow of traffic and uh have much bigger consequences and this is kind of what they look like everything from backyard to uh major yard flooding we see Street flooding that you know that can happen even from just a catch Basin being uh plugged but um kind of the the unicorn in the group is that bottom right corner the fact that we actually have a picture of a catch Basin um that's s charging so water instead of going into it is coming out of it so once we find these these are the ones that you know are the most difficult for us to tackle and to remedy and to try to figure out you know what is actually going on here because water should be flowing through the pipe not basically getting backed up to the point and then you actually have water that's above it coming down and then pushing water out of this so um we don't have a lot of these but we do have a few and and they're much harder to tackle than a lot of the rest of them um then under the very rare occasion so far um mostly 2011 it looks like this is all 2011 thank you I was going to point that out um but we had the big rainstorm July 2011 we got six inches of rain in three hours um this is what Roseville looks like after that um top left and bottom left uh is all Godfree pets so this is Fernwood and larpenter Avenue Godfree pit is the big pond just just north of larpenter just north of larpenter just west of like the animal hospital now there's like the um not Napa but one of the other Auto Park stores there um it's just to the east of fern uh Fernwood so it's just like this is a big Regional issue and this is what happens when too much water goes in and it doesn't it can't get pumped out into obviously St Paul fast enough and then St Paul also looks like this so there's really no place for to go so you know this is uh cars being flooded and um this is essentially about a block away couple blocks away um so it's like water is seven eight feet deep at the lowest spot in all this so um again these ones don't happen a lot thankfully um and then you know flooding elsewhere from County would SE in Fair viiew um to Bennett Lake as we kind of shift to uh basically inspections maintenance um you know very simply this is what you know catch Basin looks like you know when it's in good condition one that's been uh maintained by whether our street schw streets crew or a contractor just that kind of blue green paint on it that basically Seals Everything up um adds basically the lifespan of it and then there's just some minor repairs on the top and then there's a picture of the structure on the bottom bot that is historic it is falling apart it looks like they actually use you know um probably a block structure there you know they could have used uh Boulders at the bottom for all we knew to build some of these so we have some very old structures as a lot of these things were built mostly in the 60s uh when Roseville was really kind of uh you know developing so we have uh some old infrastructure that we're trying to you know maintain keep an operating condition um because again we have 9,000 of these scattered around the city um pretty hard to remove and replace all of them at the same time one of the other things that we really started to do uh that's been really beneficial and helpful is we'll actually go through just like our sanitary sewer we'll go through and we'll do this televising and this happens to be in the area that we're doing our PMP and County Road B reconstruction this year so last year we went through and started to televis a lot of this to find out what the pipe looks like uh for the most part you know in this area pipes in good condition we did notice in this one um basically just a couple of pipes that were offset and you know in a lot of cases it's not a big issue uh it happens that you know this Mainline pipe that runs basically North is it's you know under capacity so we start to get a little bit worried obviously if this pipe's under pressure a lot and we have offsets you know it's going to slow down flow you know do we get some more scouring around this when it gets a little bit older things like that so what we end up doing if we do find an issue like that is we put in liners so this project probably looks uh familiar for at least one of you at the table and uh basically this is our pipe going to Alam pond that's your house it's a driveway um so my neighbor actually oh it's the neighbor um but yeah we have uh when we do get issues with our pipes uh this is a big diameter pipe we can't dig up and replace it where it was um this is the alternative for it is to go through put in a liner uh it's really interesting process I won't go into the details right now um but basically getting this through there getting it with hot water pressurizing it and then you get uh the picture on the right where you have this nice clean surface again uh water can flow through don't have to worry about uh kind of the scouring and everything happen happening around it that was the case that was discovered actually they were digging in the garden and the pipe had collapsed and so the ground disappeared out and they could see down into the pipe so there was clearly an issue clearly an issue yes and uh the feedback from uh the residents you know inspecting our pipes is very uh very helpful too as we look at prioritizing our projects um this is kind of our next fiveyear uh layout for our PMP um again kind of that pinkish is the the PMP reconstru area on County Road B just south of 3635 and you know these are kind of the maps that I end up looking at as we start you know building all this stuff out to find out how we prioritize funding and projects and where we're really going to start looking at this um and you know I very much appreciate uh um you know the Public Works director uh you know appeasing again my random comments as things come up on these things and you know is patience with me so it's great um but again it's like this really kind of helped helps us look at these areas where we're going to have projects because we really want to tie projects together because you know we can go through with our street we can remove the street we can put in the project with our storm funds that really kind of helps you know extend the storm fund budget because we're already going through doing the work instead of going through and doing everything all at the same time so um but at the same point in time this does kind of hinder just you know getting some more of those critical projects completed like you know if we do have the sear charging uh catch Bas and manholes you know it does delay it because we're trying to uh work through all these projects at the same time and um get things going forward and then as we kind of look at the project side of it you know it's like our storm ponds are um again 60 years old 50 years old a lot of need repair we have a lot of uh inspections that happen to them whether we do it or consultant does it and um you know we are trying to make sure that these things work this is County Road SE and Fairview there's just a lot of you know from our side this doesn't look good because there's a lot of things that are tilted and you know clogged and things like that so when we go through and we do repairs on these projects they're major repairs at this point it's we're spending uh you know this is $330,000 for dredge a third of the pond and to remove you know put in a new outlet put in a new Inlet um and these are kind of what we expect when we go through and do a lot of projects now other ones are basically historic flooding where roads over top uh water over tops roads runs through somebody's Garage in their house um and as we kind as we identify and work through all these projects this one came up again in 2009 and we didn't get to it until our 2022 PMP um I think the homeowner every time I see him for his patience he has been fantastic and you know when we finally get get to it now we're looking at doing a project that's going to remove a little bit of water you know it's like we got it as size as big as we can because once we start digging we basically have utilities on one side of the road utilities on the other side we have private property so it's like this is as big as we could possibly get it that it would fit in this area it does make a nice Improvement for the property it does lower the risk of water over topping the road going through his house uh everything like that so it's it's a very good project and a very good place but overall it's like we could use a few more of these basically on that c Corridor C2 Corridor and again this ends up being kind of one of our biggest um issues is basically that yellow dot is uh a backyard there's a manhole this one sech charges um basically it'll blow the manhole cover off we'll get scouring around it uh it's very very hard for us to uh tackle this problem basically because it's 90 Acres of residential and a little bit of uh institutional um property we basically own anything in the right away but again where the utilities are in this area is very difficult for us to actually install a project so in this case timing wise it worked out where I was actually working with Concordia Meadows Atrium the tal Home Association up there they were managing a pond I said hey what happens if uh we expand that pond a little bit um you know in the end everything worked out they were all for it um we got to basically reroute storm sewer we got to increase um about two and a half acre feet of storm water storage in this you know all from us working with again Concordia Meadows to basically work within our drainage utilities again that they've been managing you know since this was put in about 1991 but the problem with this overall project was when it was installed in 91 it wasn't built to plan so now all of a sudden we're we're noticing that it's not built to plan we have these drainage issues so by adding the storage that should have been there originally you know that's getting us closer to where we need to be again um but again when we're looking at 90 acres and we have a basically a big drainage issue and um have very little way to work our way out of it every little drop will count but again pre- constructions on the left um post construction and then uh we worked again with them to basically that we'll we'll do the Prairie planting and things like that for Habitat um lack of you know ease of Maintenance things like that again it helps with our pollinator friendly Community uh we can check a lot of boxes with uh you know a project like this very large scale um you'll actually hear a little bit more about this eventually uh we have we're working with race Creek and St Anthony and New Brighton for this Jones Lake Project where now we're looking at basically a $10 million project to help alleviate you know when we look at our 90 acre scale now they're looking at the drainage from three cities going into the same pot so um this is a fantastic project where uh the three cities by working with Rice Creek we can see a very dramatic Improvement in just our overall drainage in basically that Northwest side of Roseville um so we're working very closely with them and uh we just had a meeting with uh DNR and uh Army Corps to see how feasible the project is on their side so so far so good everything works out um and then we also kind of add in you know our regulatory it's we have ms4 permits we have a surface water management plans you know there's a lot of a lot of components that we're putting into the storm water bucket that we try to basically check with each project that we put in and again as part of the regulatory in ms4 uh Municipal separate storm sewer system permit sorry for that ms4 um but we have these total maximum daily loads these are the areas that we have to focus on water quality as part of our projects to basically help improve water quality of the downstream um you can kind of see that uh it hasn't gone up a lot from basically our annual storm sewer budget um on the left the total annual available money for storm water improvements I was historically just our CIP but we did actually move some money out of the CIP into more of the operating role because we are starting to do a lot more maintenance um so we didn't think that should be under the just the CIP role so we just moved it out so I apologize for the long name uh nomenclature at the top but um overall it just kind of shows that we've been pretty flat kind of throughout the years and uh we did kind of A needs assessment in 2022 where we basically need to be spending about $2.2 million every year to replace our infrastructure um to keep up basically to its life cycle again a lot of this was in the 60s 7s so a lot of the manholes catch basins storm sewer that you saw is you know past its uh life is you know when you kind of start looking at the engineering standards behind it but the way we maintain everything the way we inspect it it's all operable it's all safe um but it's just like there's kind of the the big burden to just kind of make sure that we are on top of this we're using everything efficiently um and then you know just the big um note with this slide is you know it's just like as we are kind of moving forward with this it's like you know this fun we do try to spread it out as far as we can and you know any money that we do put in here is well used it covers a lot of area and um yeah we kind of make the most of it and hopefully uh you know as the years go by it'll just you know inch up each year and um you know we'll take one big massive increase if if it happens but you know slow uh slow progression uh works well for us too so with that what I was going to say we just approved a fairly substantial increase to our storm water utility fee for this year starting this year so that's a part of the reason for that is what you've just shown here is the the need for the funding yep and then yeah just the overall the way the projects kind of come together and the way we kind of you know have them installed and the way we coordinate them out you know that was the other just big component for tonight is just make sure everyone is comfortable with you know the way we plan and program these because again it's like you know for say the bostard one again it's like that's 90 Acres we would have to spend a million dollars and we would improve it some and you know it's like we would use basically our entire budget for one year to make an improvement to help that one um one property basically and you know it still wouldn't completely solve it um so it's just something that we we chip away at when we're in the area we have the money we have the resources things like that and I think that's kind of the general theme for a lot of the projects I know the the other big one that we've is more a little more public is the the flooding under Fair viiew or under 36 at fair viiew so that's same thing there's there's no one solution it's a bunch of little projects that'll end up getting that solution so similar to the bosard and uh the Fairview and see that's kind of the way we we look at doing these these projects and Godfrey pet and benett and all of our other ones that showed up on that 2011 slide yeah I remember that we did things at the SE and Fairview Pond to help improve fair viiew at 36 we also did some things as part of the rosedale's recent projects to try to improve that so it's like you're saying it's kind of taking things as we as we can to try to make those incremental changes well and I think one of the challenges we have too is that every single infrastructure project that's been done in Roseville since the well since the 40s has been done to the current standards at the time in terms of storm water management which creates challenges when a they get old and then B they're undersized by current standards anyway so we have to deal with it so yeah this it's always something we're needing to pay attention to we appreciate the reporting on it this evening and uh keeping us informed and I think that helps explain that rate increase that folks are seeing any questions or feedback from Council Members good work all right thank you thank you thank you next on the agenda this evening is uh consider ation I've got a note for work folks related to the previous presentation just want to De feed some back um this is our next item is to take a look at uh doing another Community survey and some specific uh notations as to some changes suggested from our last one and we have our assistant city manager Rebeca Olson with us this evening a significant portion of the administration department feel like you get yourself in trouble yeah to uh well yeah to uh introduce this item to us and seek our input this evening Miss thank you mayor and council members um so I will be as brief as I possibly can because I know what time it is um but I wanted to present this information to you tonight so tonight you're being asked to a approve a contract with Morris Leatherman for a community survey and then B to provide feedback on any questions so um to start it off I know that this the city council has in the past conducted Community surveys roughly every two years the last survey that was conducted was in 2020 Co through a little bit of a wrench into plans and so we have not conducted a survey since 2020 however we did do the community visioning process in within that time frame uh so tonight in front of you you do have a contract Morris Leatherman company is the company that we have used as a city to do the last surveys since I believe 20 at least 2014 that's as far back as I I went um and there was a direction that uh in order to maintain some consistency and benchmarking to continue to use this company with the questions that they have so um I can either pause here or we can go right into the questions I think we just keep going uh so um as part of your agenda packet you had some suggested edits to the the um questions for the Serv survey in front of you is the questions from 2020 I can briefly go through the suggested edits from staff but I did want to mention that any edits that are made uh staff does recommend using the survey company to to draft them given that they know how to write the actual survey questions so we can take feedback and work with the survey company on any uh decisions that the council makes said so the first the first suggested edit is to question I'm so sorry I have way too many papers up here uh to question 26 through 30 and these questions were originally designed or placed on the survey from our recollection when some of the park buildings were new and we can continue to have these questions as is or the park and rec director did suggest some edits here so really his suggestions laid out that instead of asking the questions of are you um aware of these Park buildings and this the community I'm sorry the cedar home Community Building he would suggest asking how well the following facilities and services are meeting the needs of the community and he listed some such as Community neighborhood parks open space and trails athletic fields Court tracks recreational programs community events and special Recreation facilities such as the community center I'm sorry Cedar home Golf Course um Hank and the skating center so that's the first uh suggested edit I can keep running through what staff has laid in here or we can pause for we maybe just check on this one very quickly here counc I appreciate uh you say I have not had an opportunity to speak with our park and R director but I was thinking that these questions seem to double other questions that are already in the survey and so I wasn't sure why we would ask the very similar questions in different ways I was just notic was that a discussion at all no council member it wasn't um I think if you're referencing the suggested how well the facilities and services meeting your needs I think what we could do if those are the questions that you'd like to consider we can combine them and just update some of the facilities and and um other suggestions into one question I just I just think that you know which ones starting yeah starting at question 18 we are talking about Recreation facilities we're talking about how people would rate them um upkeep of Park maintenance um Park programming right so we're going through and essentially hitting all of those and I would be reluctant to change the questions unless there was some real specific reason why these questions got to something much deeper I mean the goal is as much as possible consistency um and I I feel like these questions are getting to almost this exact same thing without being redundant and keep I I would actually just differ a little bit on that because it looks like this question that's being suggested talks about how well these specific facilities meet the needs of the household and as I look at the other question starting with 18 they don't really have a specific question about these specific facilities and then obviously 26 through 30 is very specific to those those buildings and the you community building y so I kind of get what this is getting at that isn't necessarily got at by these other questions 31 asks about uh Recreation and sports facilities and what's missing um so maybe there's an addition for certain facilities we want to add or we want to expand some of that but um when we're talking about Community version in neighborhood parks most people unless they're super Geeks like myself don't know the difference um why we're talking about that versus just parks in general um trails are mentioned multiple times in these questions um so I just so much of this is is delineated so if there's something specific that he would want to get that's fine but I don't think I would want to ask a question about six or seven different things that I think are mostly addressed so I I would put that back to him and I actually get rid of some of these other ones even Beyond some in that so I could I could be behind that that feedback of trying to not be redundant in that that section uh but also making sure that we do get at the information that's trying to be achieved through this so and I agree that we don't need to be specific about those specific buildings anymore yeah in 26 through 30 yeah so for me uh I don't know we bring this as feedback at 21 it's asking about uh participating in City sponsored parking recre events yes or no but we don't ask how they would rate them so I would actually add a question about rating them because several of these other things we ask how are using them and how do I think how are we doing so I think that's missing we do ask them if if they would like to see other things yep expanded or whatever but yeah we don't ask how they rate the ones they um I wonder if 24 is necessary are there any areas in the city of real where they are lacking Trails Pathways when we have a pathway master plan and when we look at the responses um it wasn't something where people were full of ideas no right so like why are we asking that question uh I would agree that 26 is not necessary are we aware of the buildings maybe 27 and 28 are adapted to include more facilities if that's desired but there's something about the buildings that are very specific and then 29 and 30 I don't what are we getting from 29 99% said yes they you know that's awesome but I'm not sure that's necessary right so we want some room um for another question or two for me those are questions that are um really not giving us any useful or new information or are just pass their [Music] time so I think that's good feedback and I hopefully between staff and mors lean can can work through that but I I would agree yes if we're getting 99% response on something that's not really telling us anything yeah yeah counc yeah number 10 um I do you feel welcome in the City of Roseville um and one person said no I just feel like there that's really a yes or no question if we really wanted an answer from it we should ask that in a different way like how could you feel more welcome or what could you know like I feel like is the sky blue or I mean any question where it's just like I feel like there could be a gradient in some there most of the time some of the time that's possible one of the things we do want to ask maybe about being a welcoming City because that's part of our yeah but then maybe then picture goal what could be what could be done to make you feel more welcome or something ask a further question instead of just a yes no I think it you know to what extent you know yeah maybe that rate at one through five how welcome do you feel or something like that so you can see the gradation yeah so just I think anytime you're going to get a 99 or one I mean it's not as helpful as if you asked um I wasn't sure what some of these scattered meant and I don't know if that just meant catch all any extra numbers but um was kind of curious to know how some of the questions were asked because it's like I don't know so there there open open-ended questions and so there were you know 2% of the responses entail probably like 30 other responses that don't amount to much statistically so it's like the other category right I felt like number 66 was there was um some similarity to 12 in there um maybe they could be combined so it's not just I don't know if you're on next door or Facebook there's a lot of people who want to really focus on the crime part and I think we if we could find a way to not maybe we want to know what the answers are but we also want to ask it in a way that it's not just what are the things you hate so I don't know um I was concerned about number 68 because when it said affordable housing rentals many few are much 69 what are we going to do if they say too much I feel like that's not something that we can change the town homes we don't have a lot of room for expansion we don't have a lot of things maybe we could change we could measure sentiment in a different way but I feel like it's you know do we have enough Town Homes well if we didn't where in the world I mean we'd have to move somebody out so I feel like if it's something that's attainable like would you like a million dollars well yes I would you know like don't ask somebody something that we have no ability to make subsistent changes like how could we cuz I mean you read the social media and you know people you know there's too many apartments there's too many this that or the other but I mean and we are landlocked so there is only so many things that we can do and again there's the trails and bikeways which we've asked a bunch of other times I just think whenever people PE get asked things over and over again in a slightly different way they take that like what are you trying what is the answer that you want me to give that's sometimes that's part of survey science in terms of making sure that you're verifying responses exactly but we do have a lot about Trails yeah um and and certainly just as an example if somebody if there was a huge cry out for Town Homes you know one of the things we have the ability to do is zone property and we and we can we could look at Future guiding for for properties and yeah exactly so so I think there is some benefit to some of um and then in 96 it just mentions drop off S sites Organics if we are going to use it as an awareness piece then I feel like we should talk about um we should add things that are also current like the CE audits or the electronics recycling or other um things that are available to people if if it's awareness or you know do you use these things or would you know as they roll out would you be willing or interested in doing them just keeping up with the latest things that are also happening in the city um I guess one thing I really found concerning in the last time that this was done is because it's so Random it there was very few people of color and the age um was fairly skewed and I feel like I realize that being random is one thing but I really think we need to make sure we um find a way to get voices of more than one just one type of people uh council member strong can I address that I I do know that they try to mirror the demographics of the city to get the respondents so that might be why um the 61% were white because that is more reflective what the community was so they're doing it on a statistically valid method and waiting actually 10% less than our current number of people identify as white so this is even probably more skewed towards people of color than our current demographics and it would have been yeah but I think you know remembering that there's other pieces of demography rather than just skin shap you know um so trying to be aware of other socioeconomics and other pieces like that and so wondering how those are identified before after are they people fit one are they aggregate you know like I guess you know wanting to make sure that they are accurately reflected in intentionally so I can tell you what I know um I don't know their exact survey me I'm definitely not statistics major by any means but I do know that they look at the demographics of the city when it comes to gender ethnicity income household size etc etc and they try to weight it and what I've heard is that they once they reach kind of their saturation level um then they've they've done that and they try to find the other groups like for example if they've reached the age demographic of 18 to 34 or whatever than any other surveys they would collect from other age demographics um but if you have very specific questions I would have to have Peter letherman address those because I don't know the rest of it I just want and I'm sure given our gear and other engagement and um pieces that that'll figure into our decisions just want to make sure that you know really reflect all of the people because they're very different depending on where you sit economically in our city maybe even more than some other characteristics right other feedback questions or do we ready to go to the next one yeah we kind of we kind of jumped off of of the one questionnaire uh sure mayor council members the next question is question 84 and it is actually the intro to question 84 that staff is recommending a change um the intro the the suggested change was really to just add the land trust program um at some somewhere in this opening paragraph uh because it's something that's relatively new since the last time so that's the suggested edit on question 84 I think it's fine I don't know that everybody knows what a land trust is but they may just glass over that right uh the next one is question 93 um again this is also in the intro section it's on page 14 where it says last fall we're suggesting just a updating that to 2019 and then before question 98 um the suggested edit is to add a longer intro where it talks about what Ramsey and Washington counties are doing regarding um food scraps pickup etc etc so it's more of an education piece so that they understand what what it is so that's the suggestion and and that word in obviously would go through the the process this is just the draft good that's my feedback yeah and then we get rid of 98 and 99 correct and maybe the beginning of 100 if a curbside collection program because there will be a curbside collection program it may be delayed by a couple years but that's the goal right it's it's being moved forward or say when a curbside is available yeah something like that instead of the F yeah um and then the last two are question 102 and 104 um the question 102 is this is just a suggestion we can leave it in but since the city no longer has a local newspaper would be removing that as the primary source of information um maybe they view local newspaper other it could be you know what they view as maybe the star Rie or Pioneer Press but just a suggested edit and then in question 104 um because we have a couple different things that are considered Roseville city news um clarifying it by just indicating that this is the printed City publication and with that those are the the staff recommendations but I obviously would like any further feedback from Council you could also on that one just add uh have you re do you recall receiving it in the mail because that's the way it's delivered that might be a way to get at that too CER strong I was just curious about the last question under gender it says do not ask are we making an assumption based on someone's voice don't really care if I'm not comfortable with that I think if we can ask people um well I think what they're saying is that's the that's the reported demographics of the in known information they have about I'm guessing because they're not actually asking the question I don't know what I don't think it's based on what they hear from the person but rather what might be otherwise available that the and so it's and we may want to consider adding additional categories under gender as well to identify just I was like oh do not ask just assume I think it was they were using other sources of information all right it better to ask people any other feedback on different questions so I I think generally the from my perspective the substitution of City emails for the local newspaper that's makes some sense because that's something we actually do um and we might like to know about it um the question about you know everybody I complains that we don't have a local newspaper anymore and I'm not sure that we need a survey question to understand that um or to know what to do about it because nobody's going to know what to do about it say what could so but it just got me thinking about it so I think I've I've worked through that now so out loud it's funny that only 9% said that that was their primary source even then I think that was kind of it was kind of on the way out at that point but but I think also there are a lot of people 9% for whom it was very important and a lot of people for whom it several issues piled up in the front yard every month all right anything else from the Council on the survey I we do need to authorize the contract you know I know sometimes people like to switch providers but I think there is that consistency factor that that would be helpful um we may want to think about getting into a cycle where at some point after so many year so many surveys we do and maybe it'd be a good discussion for a future time is to to think about how we approach that you'd go off for a bid like we do with what what else do we oh well yeah for some of our services where we we say threeyear contracts and something like the city manager could recommend going beyond the normal renewal or whatever anyway something to about that because there may be best practices as to how to proceed with you know bidding on those surveys I know there's a lot of entities out there now that may not have been out there in the past council member I will move approval of the contract with Morris Leatherman um cons considering the suggested adjustments that came up in our meeting second it's been moved by Council and second by Council Scher to approve that contract and note the feedback on the questions discussion of the motion is makeer the motion counc I'm good thanks second or I'm good all right any other discussion Council mayor graph we haven't heard from you in a while just want to make sure yeah thanks um no I think all your discussion was good I I think it's uh consistency is good right now and I thought the addit to the questions were good I'd read through them earlier I'm on board thank all right thank you with that we have the motion before us Mr tudman you call the role please council member strong hi Council M shoro hi council member Aton I council member gra hi mayor ro hi that motion passes unanimously and that contract is authorized and look forward to um I don't know that the council do we need to see all the questions come back before the survey goes out or are we comfortable with letting the process go forward I'm not hearing a lot I think you should go forward go forward all right so it doesn't need to touch back with the council then unless well that was one voice I that was one voice is there any objection to not having the questions I'll come back to the council hearing no objection I mean I think it'd be nice for us to see what's going out I don't know if we have to make a decision but if they're going to adjust and we've had a number of concerns that some things are redundant or I mean I think it might be nice for us to maybe in a consent just to have the opportunity to review it on its way out just to make sure if we had some substance change that we want to see well we could handle it a couple ways we could all we could get it from staff and provide feedback to staff outside of a council meeting and then that can be hopefully incorporated into the final product and then if we want to final look at it a consent approach could be used does that make sense or a the timeline is to get get them started fairly quickly here I'm not sure exactly when is this time is it April that's correct uh you are not a council member city manager Dron um that is correct they are hoping they have uh certain times that they like to do the survey because they're better times than others which is usually March april-ish um so I staff is happy to reach out provide the information to moris Le men see if we can get a response back and then look at the timeline and we can either send it out and or place it on a consent agenda we can go after I talk with him and maybe with the sending it out process the feedback may be such that it it's pretty pretty okay at that point so that sounds good that concludes our business items this evening we have future agenda review if we could have the screen up on the uh display here pet all right so uh we do have a meeting next uh Monday uh we have quite a few items on uh we do have uh C license hearing for a new restaurant at Harmar we also on the flip side of that we have seven penalties for tobacco uh one tobacco I guess and most alcohol violations are listed there so as you know we go through each of those individually and I'll take some time so we'll have to go through all those we also have a zoning text Amendment for motor vehicle repair a body shop as a conditional use and neighborhood M mixed juice zoning District we want to come back and discuss city council and commission rules of procedure uh just finalize that uh we also have a short presentation um from Chief shider about um a grant award for um funding for an officer for three years to be assigned to the Minnesota BCA violent crime reduction unit um it's really good news this is something that's going to really help us um be involved in U metrowide crimes such as carjacking and other things that are happening so we want to present about that um before um we accept that uh we have the ski slom course permit request which happens every year and then we also will have at the end of the meeting a Clos session uh for Westwood Village um I sent some preliminary information to the council we get a whole bunch of additional information here in the packet we'll talk about next steps with that after that on the 12th we have uh several items that you've seen before trust Housing Trust Fund ordinance adoption and the short-term rental ordinance I think those should be pretty straightforward we want to discuss street light policy and also review the budget process uh kind of work through as we start heading into the 25 planning process and then on the 26 uh we have lots of Public Works the department will be back for additional discussions and a whole slew of different parts of the code um regarding various things many of them are just technical uh there's a couple more substantive ones but assessments and payments for repairs but um in any case we'll have a full list of things there to consider that's what we have as of now all right any questions or feedback on the um upcoming agendas is the plan that the 12th meeting is kind of another work session kind yeah it's kind of shaping up that way that's about all we have on the agenda at this point so we can probably spend some time maybe be at the table again that works we good any council member initiated items for future meetings or reports and announcements the as on reports that includes council member graph just check and see if he's got his hand raised oh no most of mine are coming up this week I'll give you some next week yeah sounds good all right with that the only other item on our agenda is adjournment so mooves second move by Council M and second by council member St to adjourn no discussion on a motion to adjourn all those Mr charant call the RO please council member St hi council member schroer hi council member Aton hi council member Gra hi mayor ro hi that passes unanimously and we are adjourned at 9:41 p.m. thank you everyone