[Music] to the United States of America and to the Republic indivisible andice roll please counc member here council member ju here council member Norby here council member Cole is absent and mayor mongi here get the motion to adopt the agenda please move so move council member s second council member Norby all those in favor say I I I thank you all right it's all yours thank you mayor we got two City business action items this evening U First up is health insurance carrier change and pleas turn that over to Dan mayor council members uh got some good news on our health insurance uh for this year uh at least two of the members were here last year when we got the news at the 11th Hour um that our carrier at that time which currently our um was increasing our insurance rate 50% which was quite a quite a shock for us um last year after we received that we um shed a consultant Insurance Group and they ran an RFP and um the results were uh we had a couple of vendors that were going to provide a little bit of a savings but it wasn't enough this year we went out again Gallagher and RFP number of responses and right now we're recommending um changing our health uh insurance company from keep to um United Healthcare uh is a 177% reduction from where we're at gave us a 2.36% is a much better um it has uh more of an open network um in the state of Minnesota it has no primary care provider designation needed no referals needed within the network um uh can seek the Care at the provider and Clinic of their choice they also have value added programs aards program a zero virtual visits program an employee assistance program self-care by able to quit for life there's a number of they also offer insurance he met last week with committee unanimously decided so what does that mean for where we're at in the budget process in the budget we uction manager myself will uh meet later to come up with some options of what we can do general fund including the not with that um the insance carrier to move the rest well respect of everyone at the table what are your plans on increasing or leaving the employee contribution the same the employee contribution to to match so why would you decrease the employee contribution if potentially next year the contribution would increase that's part of the option saving from a levy standpoint recommendation one of the components to that stays within the Bud he's totally believe part of the reason why our insurance I do um they look at two years the ratio of claims to premiums two years ago was 27% other words what it means for every dollar that we paid in premiums they lost for the what drove that 50 um our premium ratio this this past year um was considerably the opposite 50 uh premiums went up consider year but yeah we're riding on a poster oh yes one of the options of that money I mean something to consider too is that if you went to Peep and then United Healthcare if you find and go shop the market place again you're going to find a new a trend of people wanting to pick you up because of the uh so I would keep into consideration that um for all of the employees at this table if you move from peep to United Healthcare to Preferred one Blue Cross Blue Shield you name it it becomes inconsistent for your employees as well so I would recommend that you wouldn't decrease the contribution for potential increase in the future so that could happen that would be my recommendation so the employees component to that they're going to be charge did these contribution Parts is I can't speak on behalf of the table but that's me and my C says that's what I would do too but that's not my loud and clear and that's kind of what my S I'm done that y just the resolution needs to be yes to gain Clarity what we're approving or not approving tonight is just the move from provider a to provider B it's not what council member schwe brought up okay yeah so you're approving the move and then you're authorizing the mayor and the city at a later date that perfect thank you than 30 council member second second council member Co all those in favor say I I I thank you next up and City business action items is U Item B capital Improvement plan 2024 that back over to you Mr the capital Improvement plan has been distributed to the city council members um actually quite some time ago and um as I've been saying over and over again um that the cap a lot of money um it's really what drives a significant part of your budget investment now Levy increase part of that 8 and a half% now that we start to go through the dialogue and looking at the plan already heard um Public Works [Music] director Richie um talk about the even that 2% still drove the PCS down so is there more money than you invested export and but obviously it's still going down one would say that more money is going to need to be invested as far as our facilities are concerned we've all seen what happened to uh the community center part of that is lack of planning that's why we've brought in since I've been here a 10-year uh Capital uh Improvement plan um looking um and trying to to understand to financial plans what we need to start allocating that in addition for the facility is one of the big pieces that we need to it is one of the items that plan is to allocate $25,000 assestment of our facilities it does is it goes from top to bottom covers your exterior grounds it covers the exterior of facilities all the way through watertight your hdac and and looks at the useful life of those pieces of so that we're we're covering everything once we do that what we're going to end up seeing is that the cost for our facilities in are going to go up significant um we've got a number for parks we've got a number of studies that are still um to be done um for our Parks um there's a lot of different Visions for our Park system obviously um you can see that we ended up having to move some of the you know like wood uh Parks needed to be moved out I think I think we had to move it out to um for funding to be available that's even at a 0.55 Levy increase and when we look at um well that covers the the three major areas our our streets um Parks um the other areas seem to be doing pretty good even equipment will require um an increases in our internal um charges to departments um in the funding um there's a number of Big Ticket items that are out there um this is for you to ask questions all the department heads are here make sure that you're comfortable you understand what's being requested give us staff Direction and what you want to see as far as the future for the city um and whatever you say in adjustments we'll make adjustments through uh Improvement plan we'll make adjustments from Improvement plan which will have impacts in we'll be able to make recommendations next year uh additional funding on those so I thought for t what we're going to do is that we're going to go look at our Capital Improvement plan um from a categoric standpoint in other words we're going to look at you know equipment and any questions that you have regarding equipment U please ask uh department heads were the ones to request so they should be able to answer any questions related to them um then we'll go through you know say works and and so forth so with that why don't we start off um with the equipment fund itself I asked a general question certainly you certainly can um so again as we look at each one of these plans yep by I'm going to pick on Park and R because it happens to be the page I've got open there's 2.8 million dollar set aside for Northwood Improvement I had no idea what that is so by approving it as it stands does that mean we're setting that money aside to move forward not necessarily knowing what it is there are descriptions on the projects themselves that are in the backup document um we certainly can ask uh the department uh head who submitted that request to give clarification for any of those at the end of the day when you approve this plan because we're on an annual budget process you're truly only approving the 2020 that was the piece I needed thank you what it what what is is Good from a planning standpoint for our department head um is that this is kind of the plan unless something drastically happens that they can follow and that they know their next year piece of businessing for it becomes very very critical obviously not to say it's not critical in other areas but for the streets so they can start to work with WSB ahead of time identify those streets start to get ready um with the engineering components to it so when the when the year starts um in the spring that they've got their bids out they've got results and they're hitting Road working um and so um yeah it uh it it helps us plan now to answer your question a little bit deeper um what it all of these items what it does is it feeds in to what is the need to be able to fund if you decide later to actually do that Northwood project decide not to obviously and and nothing substitutes it there's going to be money that's available and those are the questions that need to come up so it's absolutely excellent question to start us off and and hopefully we get a lot of that dialogue um tonight and in the question so just one quick followup so approving a plan and item the way it exists doesn't mean we necessarily are approving something seven years down the road that doesn't give somebody okay I like the headshake thank you yeah and some of those numbers I Haven even picked on you yet no but and well and I'm thinking most of these are mine and a lot of them I didn't even put the numbers in so I mean the stuff that's way out um to try to go and put a real number on that right now it's really hard to that' be really hard to do so a lot of these numbers in here I'm like where' this come from or I I mean the Northwood park building I hadn't even heard of it so I mean some of these numbers I mean I had to concentrate on 2024 and 25 and some of these numbers out here are just like a number out there that I don't even know where it came from but to go and try to get a real number for every one of these line items it's not realistic right now so perect thank you go easy on me Tim I will I promise I got your back okay thanks if you look at the vehicle and equip equipment first um us to it which um page 12 of 204 13 of 204 and continues all the way down to page 14 of 204 of of the summary page to it there's a long list of equipment on there so the question and how will go unless you want to do it you know a different way is that are there questions with any of these items that are on this equipment all of these all of the equipment on here um is if it's a general fund um request um it's funded through the internal service mon equipment if it's a Enterprise fund like uh Water waste water electric they're paid for by the funds my only question other than the fact we own a lot of nice stuff um is more on the police interceptors there appear to be the only thing that's on its schedule you know look like a replacement every five years is there is there did I miss something as I try to draw lines across is that really the only thing that we have timed out where the rest of them are just kind of like when they're closer to being really tired uh very good question no the the reason why you see that this is a 10year plan and all of the other equipment is year plus so you're only going to see it being repe months on there where uh are on a 60e um replacement cycle I assume moving that in or out really doesn't save the city much because the value of the vehicle drops and the replacement value goes up and well it it it it it does save because you push it out um you know a year or two um look at that over a 40e cycle save you significant or do you only save it once nope you will save it over that 40-year cycle because it's being pushed out further and you know further so you know EAS I all used 42 years so if it's a six cycle you're replacing them seven times seven times let's just say $100,000 is $700,000 now if I'm replacing them once every 10 years I'm only doing it four times so I just absolutely those adjustments thank you I believe we we' made that switch in this going from five years to six years yeah I remember them being shorter yeah they're pretty beat up but it's like one question I have is how much you maintain some of this equipment and vehicles there are some Vehicles here um to you know oil changes breaks Etc I'm just wondering for some of those vehicles that vehicle that might have a different so I'm just CC council member Wong I think that's a excellent item that you brought up I don't have a specific answer for you today but that's something we definitely should try to take a look at to see because you're absolutely absolutely right so in the operating budgets for whether it's an Enterprise fer General on that's the fuel cost um cost for vehicles and so absolutely we should take some sort of look and and be able to provide some what is a trailer camera I'm sorry trailer camera uh kind exactly describe actually it's a you probably seen them mobile re with a telescope arm cameras top thought like a regular like a pull in a trailer camera I'm like that's one hell of a price for a trailer camera yeah okay the ones they just put out there and put boom up and Dome and listen exactly okay thank you is that like one probably sawu around still water when the river was all real time do we have priority oh priority I'm sorry okay that we can like it out um we it the issue that would come into play is what network is the actual internal so if we were to borrow it to have this in City the only ones that can work pleas yes you could borrow it out um I have a staff M technology idea where you put it uh ball games uh copper theves in town uh parks that get graffiti on them all over wherever the crime is is driving the need for it case exactly all over how far out U I think it's four units so it's kind of more expensive on option that us all the features which truck is yours on here that's that's out a few years it's the one with the lift kit okay and the glowing light blue and green you can have the thumper radar mounted onto it radar detector yeah how care do you have any sort OFA not not in readily available but popularity in them Cera who is now going to be and I'm going to get arrested in please some other agencies that I don't have anying how do you how do you count the crimes that would have occurred if have this there that unknown factor or that unknown stat of how many did it deter okay yeah any other questions on the vehicles and Equipment we'll move on categorically is uh buildings and facility Improvement but before we do that why don't we just take a little moment and there is some pizza here in between someone has to be the first one that first one I was like the guy with the gun to go first got make sure it's good that's right take as many as you want page nine of 204 your packet is that's what we were just I am notx Diner tonight later yep p yeah I had a client to I can when I started working really if I had a truck oh gosh you scared me for a second I had a fire would surpr me over send him a bird he said okay abely not technology working call me am I present or absent mentally or physically both you're present at 501 thank you yes would have made Sate what's [Music] that I became the president of the I told you he's not here I don't have that congratulations as a reminder guys um GNA something for me but should we speak up because the speakers are having a hard time picking this up all right let's continue uh facility if if we could go back to equipment real quick um I just was wondering um there's Bobcat on there a few times and I'm just wondering um I mean there's a lot of vehicles here are there opportunities that have happened or um are foreseeable in which um Vehicles may be on their way out can still be used in maybe another department Etc or buying use is that an option I think it's a very good option when you see Bobcat Bobcats can be schol cats can be a skid steer but yes you are seeing in in multiple um departments from Electric um has bcats listed on theirs Parks and Recreation has Bobcats listed on their Street Maintenance has Bobcats listed on theirs um so let's turn it over to Let's kind of look at both John from the electric and Ron Public Works want to kind of address that U just real quick we the electric site has one Bobcat tool cat dedicated just for the department bcat but that's a shared cost or shared um for the bobcat and we also have Bobcat tool cats two of them and them Vehicles basically take care of all the snow paing of the sidewalks and paths and them are probably two of the vehicles are that go out daily summer and winter just because our town is not you know not that big um they're used we use them for um picking up dirt uh seeding black dirt uh restoration um you can put you know snowf flowers on them snowblowers um so there's something that gets lots of hours on them um all year round so so it's by the time I think we have these on a I think a six-year replacement program is what they're on by the time we're done with them they're pretty much um shot because they're used so often on your buying use like the on the Bobcat itself the normal Bobcat it's like $330,000 government savings you'll get that on the back end basically when you go create it in or sell it cost is so reduced for government that use probably yes and you do a handing down vehicle y so we we do repurpose um you know a lot of our vehicles as best that we we can it's five years not long enough replay I mean that it sound like I mean and I know a little bit about that type of equipment you're using it that much I think that's kind of The Sweet Spot we've kept them longer we've had them like for seven years and the axles go out on them and it's like a $16,000 repair gets to a point so I think if we can keep on that kind of rotation with them that's I think that's a sweet sweet spot for us okay um you find yourself replacing and maint like doing a lot of maintenance on some of those higher on like an axle or something like that are you doing that kind of stuff already with that fiveyear plan yes and that not not like the $14,000 repairs um we do a lot there's there's a fair amount $5,000 repairs on those machines because we use them for Ping the sidewalks um and put snowblowers on them and the the arms that are on them that hold this equipment they get bent and it's a super common problem with them and that's a $5,000 repair the alternative which we kick back and forth every year we talk about there are sidewalk machines that are out there they're $280,000 equipped these are 60,000 65,000 machines I guess they're a little more now8 something yeah they're probably $80,000 now but I don't want to say we're not we're we're kind of pushing them to the max with how we're using them but we weigh weigh out the options for what these other machines are these sidewalk machines they're kind of a just a onep purpose machine but they're built way way more heavy duty for that kind of a lot of cities that plot all their sidewalks that have these machines you know I believe oale has like four of them but they're they're super expensive they're over a quarter million dollars and moving on to facilities from facility Improvement um any questions anything that pops out you'll see um that there's an item on there for facilities I spoke that earlier also see um police REM model I think I came up budget discussion as as holding cell and report writing and I truly believe this is here are being understated yeah that garage door is pretty shoddy is there a reason why we're putting it out till 2025 we just fixing the one Bay that's dented on the please yeah yeah um they don't make those panels anymore either so spot so is this this is for all the doors that's that's the rough estimate of it um the new modern version is buil is there a chance we can get that one B at least at least fixed I do have a quote for it but the the they describe it where it's it's not going to look like the one that doesn't look like the other ones uh but that's what that what was that don't make them anymore so we'd have to order from Canada and ver but yeah I can't Dent the door either so well it's not that it's not usable right it still works for how long well you know uh by this one hopefully till 2025 if uh it's that's when the funding comes through but um well it was yeah for a couple GR that hopefully at least I personally think we should get that fixed that's not on here though that's that's not a I mean the full replacement is the 195 estimated in the well this is my first year going through this so I'm not really sure what that looks like for is it similar to repair they think that to repair will it look similar then what they told me yet we found a couple panels in on top of the lockers that were in there and now we're off of replaces as it is right now it's been hasn't been repaired by by you all no it's it well somebody might have thrown a shoulder into it to try to get the uh the dent back in assignment so it's back on the rails but it opens and closes now so it's the DIY repair noticeable on the ex panel that yeah that that I'm not sure I know that they're a heck of a lot stronger so they can withstand Theology of them what to happen is door starts to come down as squad car is backing in stop it ifad car happens to be sensors were back up to the squad caral improvements that will now in the in the current are they just trying to get in quick and close it too quick or so they're on a timer which is also kind of a security issue if we're running out of the uh running out of police station on a call uh the door is going to stay open for a while without a cop sitting there hey I want you know this door closes and nobody runs inside the police department new ones can and and it closes in two seconds versus that's the there like motion sensors that you can add on to the existing garage um from like preventing it to to damage the tops of squad cars possibly um I don't know what that looks like or or the cost that that might be but the the sure thing is that the new the roll top ones do come I mean there you need working doors so what that and when that looks like Keep Us 2 isur current wouldn't say it's just an isur I'd say functionally and to properly make sure that your cars get in and out on that timer not to mention making sure nobody go into the garage yeah I mean that's a safety definitely a safety impact relation to is something that has occurred in the past not that I'm aware of thankfully for the PD or for us we've have had issues primarily um the ambulance uh garage door Bay uh similarily because of theive use and the amount of times that they come and go from that location it's multiple multiple times a day because they're not just responding uh for us but they're leaving here multiple times a day and then once that truck leaves and comes back then there's another one coming in for coverage so that door goes up and down a lot and it's been replaced a lot in the past and we have a similar issue where their bottom panel which is a a metal one is damaged but um same issue these garage doors were when the building was built for whatever reason uh they're coming from Canada and it takes a long time to get them and we have tried to um have spare parts and panels because we've learned that lesson on how long it takes so um we have a couple glass ones right now but uh I have uh lower metal one for the uh ambulance Bay on order and they're trying to locate one because similarly same thing gets hit just because the theirs is on a timer um and they open it too soon before they start backing in and hit that safety device that ibeam or that sensor takes that little uh bit of that that garage door coming down and hitting the top of the ambulance happened before so that's where most of the issues come back on that area honest if they had a policy like us when you're backing up a fire truck that truck walking it in um we've had that issue before too because at the garage door coming down so we've made some adjustments on our side but still um it it is it's a problem doors and maintenance in general so I just replaced the one of our garage doors and it was out for seven eight weeks maybe just because we were waiting for parts [Music] question would you say that impacts the service provider into the garage like how much time is out of day to address it weeks for the part yeah like else you can well for for this repair it was the motor um so it all depends I mean uh whether it's wintertime I mean these doors in the fire Bay are extremely heavy and they have um engineered basically two large Springs on each side with a spring inside of them that are held up on casters to hold the weight of those heavy glass stores going up and down on cables and the maintenance for that so um there's a lot of factors that go into it but uh we generally uh we've had the same contractor who knows our equipment and knows what to expect and what's needed on these repair repairs and like a vehicle they need to be maintained as well um when he was out here doing it he's like we gota fix these two doors because the cables are getting frayed before something breaks and falls and so we're trying to keep up on that as well because it's it's often I'll get a call whether it's from Lev view or somebody else in the middle of the night or on the weekend be like our door won't close what do we do door how much damage has happened to the vehicles when you hit these doors what happens then are we out of commission or just take the off it's it's more damage happens to the door the bottom panel and of the our garage doors is metal and then the other upper panels are all glass and again um time so that I can remember that we've had a fir Tru back in into it generally the ladder that sticks up and out further on the engine that was first to hit the door on the ambulance pretty solid on the top and they're hitting that panel and busting out the wheels from the tracks and happening but not significant damage to the vehicles it's more to the the garage door itself and the it's a big issue in in all of these buildings whether it's ours or other stations that I see how they're trying to deal with vehicles coming and going the problem no matter the high maintenance the new doors you guys talking about the ones at the new opale I mean me new Maplewood North were they accordion go on that way I'm not sure what he has I doubt they have enough space for that no the the ones the the speed roll toop ones are PR common at at most but different from the fire I know what you're talking about what you've seen there and we don't have enough space in between our doors to allow that put close pretty quick yeah anything when this uh the building cameras were updating the quality um a nine it's right above the assessment of 25,000 I know you mentioned when you had damage to yours you couldn't really even tell what was going on your car on AR is that what we're talk about replacing cameras they fed with wax cable it's not running Cat 5 digital picture a lot more clear much better resolution that's good because there cameras make a big difference as far as their quality so make sure if we're doing it we're doing them right thank you move on to capology there's not a lot in there system ccil AV technology we need to move that forward [Music] yeah tomorrow we all that forward yesterday for real yeah how long ago was that put in that audio here and9 long before I don't think so 18 maybe 18 or 19 believe on this item um Cherry had reached out to uh Metro inet um and 9 North who actually does all of our recordings um these numbers came from them and the time slots came from them my understanding is the motherboard is out know if that's going to cost us the cost of the whole thing again while we looking at another plan to try to figure out what we can do think we should get pricing for unit so that way we do get the motherboard we can gos AR I mean parts are going to take this long we can't afford to have something else go down again is if you have that information installed and I mean technology changes really quickly so it's just the audio part of it everything else is working just fine I don't know so just one second even know the other room was hooked up so it has audio and visual that one give them in room this size and we go through our it people to do this or is this Marco the one North putting it through them go a person or a company I mean for what it's worth we need to figure something out for our community I mean right now we have to shout to hear and I watched the I can't remember what it was some commission you can barely hear anybody which I can't imagine right now what it sounds like hear four five words next four five internet too we're going straight out through certainly if we can find a solution for that I forcy and communication with the all the time just in here to give us just opinion from somewhere else any other questions on the capital on to Parks playgrounds paths open space so for me the first one that jumps out in 20124 of the tenant court rehab uh talking in Trails um Brandy was able to secure $1,000 or something is so is the original number left what you were able to scare as a grant this amount that you see here includes the grant secured fund I think somewhere else in the document it separates the funding sources I thought the project cost when it originally came was around a quarter of a million dollars and then the grant was going to come off of that there were some requirements for the grant agent uh prevailing wages and they did require kind of full adaa compliance we couldn't phase it in so we're adding a little bit of extra cushion on here just to make funding when we have the bed come hoping it'll come in last I'm left scratching my head the program was a quarter of a million dollars without a grant correct and with the grant it's it's 462k no the money if you go to the project page it'll break out the impact of the fcall you're absolutely correct it was approved in the 2023 budget at 250,000 for bid on to it it came in I think about $400,000 was the total amount then they got the grant that dropped it down prices have gone up a little bit because of I didn't remember I didn't remember the 400k that came in I just remember what was approved you're absolutely right okay 8 yes yeah dang right I noticed there's a couple plans on here um for 2024 the Mite Fields Master planning um I'll just say that there are plenty of Grants out there right now for active living type grants so if I'm not mistaken both of those are fees to pay a consultant to see what it looks like it doesn't have anything to do with lift and shovel one for dird it's it has to do with planning can you talk about the passive part yeah that the recommendation that came out of that passive park in that document is a number of City Parcels that Al line I think it's the cross the street from m& home the point of bu is to prepare those it all the all the trees all the ones that are wooded with the high slope or is a big giant triangle at the intersection it's the slope the wooded slope okay cool and the sidewalk along M kn that is pulled out from the master plan as well with where I think you're going that there is probably some transport so we could try to the prioritization of these items I'm also pulling from those thinking of when project should happen on staff availability um long range plans out speak to some of the Gateway Trail improvements that was again from the Redevelopment master plan and I don't think there was any specific guidance there other than we a number of places in the downtown there was access in terms of appearance um the city's responsible for that well go through do you I would wag your money that the DNR would say that access improvements for local access to their Trail would be the responsibility of the local exploring as you know if there's going to be some study or investigation as to what the right improvements might be some of that would involve Co well the only reason why I ask is because you were painting inside right um one of those tunnels yeah and we're told pretty much not to yes because we were that was do so the DNR oh DNR yeah DNR maintains Trail they plow it and maintain years and then doing this it's so I guess I'd look at that for the trail access improvements because I if DNR is responsible for that then should in the past there was a lot of discussion around way finding signs would that also be a part of that certainly could be included in the scope out of curiosity are we responsible for the signage of the Gateway Trail itself so at Rotary there was a new sign that was placed with the mapping of it did we replace that we newly installed it I think we insted it okay questions on the parks one of the things I've heard a lot of people talk about is a general theme and I'm hoping this improves um with the funding that was dedicated to a a dedicated Grant um procurement position um I I think we're all hoping a lot of these can be you know reduced from the city budget and and more Grant Focus it'd be interesting a as we progress along this path next year in the year after to to be able to see how much of these have been reduced by by that position that was created to make sure that there's value in in what's created um there is another report in here that does show everything by funding source we only identif second I want to do a quick little recap of the discussion that we've been having uh some of the items that will be further movement cost perspective um looking at stesy and then came up some parts moving I am keeping notes I was going to go at the end I I'll kind of give you a update as we're moving thank you other question question as the park playground open on to Pavement preservation a number of different items I dominantly would you're going underneath Street Maintenance and will be known as Rehabilitation that's the additional R add major projects that are on the pavement preservation Andy Endor Morgan lot did that redo them all you know we'll assess them and see what they actually need this was dollars that were put in I we got some rough rough numers square foot numbers for what these numbers will be fairly close to like redoing them whether it be a maintenance overlay or grind or if we just steel codom or whatever it might be just before they get too far you know past gone where we had to really redo them all um the striping um just so you guys know our main roads the county does our striping for us so they have you know big truck uh so each year depending on paint paint has gone up the last couple years but the county comes in we they have a map and they do you know seventh they do Margaret they do first they do pretty much kind of the all the main thorough fares around um you know Public Works building that is that is what that striping striping nearly all of that you parking lot no oh they don't they don't do any parking lots it's just kind of main roads we have a company that does okay yeah that that striping is basically just for that to the casy lake parking lot is that um both parking lots or just um I [Music] believe I believe it's for both I'd have to I'd have to look I believe it's for both though mone's Downstream but what's the old Medical Center parking lot why am I drawing a blank what's the old Medical Center that's that's right next to Sidewinders yeah that's one we oh that's same property we keep talking about you right you were right really we're g to talk about that again property there you go thank you yeah to rename that and if we can do it for 29,000 let's do it now like I said some of these numbers are need some adjustments that you pick that up any more questions on oh sorry I was looking at the it's 2025 but it looks like there's 210,000 allocated for Suppa between Margaret and Helen for the parking lot um I guess um what I'm thinking with that is um Redevelopment master plan um how does that intersect with oriented I don't think that it has any recommendation that parking lot any within that way unless there's suggestion and the mcnight parking lot that's on here for 2025 also will have to do with that plan and what that's going to look like and what that because that that mcnight parking lot was on for 2023 and I believe the number was we yeah $250,000 and if we were going to do something different with the tennis courts or just what's going to happen down there so again we pushed it out we doubled the number um just not knowing really what the plan's going to be so we use that parking lot this use that parking lot uh yes not as much as they used to but there there is some are there um to the park itself for mcnight I believe we have some there's money in there for fencing um um Dugout yeah dugouts two of them are redone two of them are not it it was my that once we had a completed design plan then we would be able to have accur kind of that whole mcnight complex with that master plan that they're looking at I think that all kind of I'm assuming that's all going to be kind of included in that whole plan there's been some discussion around that with parks and R what that was they would like to see that look like other questions move on to Ponds natural resources um here uh quck I usually have to um yeah you know everything short right um yeah Emerald ashb um that's just you know keeping up maintaining our um trying to stay on top as best we can um you know grant opportunities out there so um yeah that that's kind of brief overview that ponds vegetation that is for that money is put in for maintaining all of our um rain Gardens uh rain Gardens all the different ponds that we have Quick Trip uh up by Christ Luther T Church behind um silver yeah but silver leg maintaining all those PS I think I spoke about a little time or a little bit at the last um meeting but they're planted they put in you know hundreds of plants in there and they need to be maintained we have our people go in there and do it including myself and pull out the wrong stuff so this is kind of for maintaining all of our all of our um ponds so they stay working how they how they should there's a lot of money that goes into them Morgan you can correct me or add there's the bottoms of these ponds are meant to drain when they're done there's uh drain tile on the bottom of them um so they just need to be maintained and upkept properly so this is something that'll be an ongoing year after year add that um it's more than just storm water function too it's Aesthetics I mean a lot of these basins are in residential areas across the street or next door to people's properties and they expect to not have invasive species or thistles going to seed and that sort of thing we've had a lot of complaints years um so this item does it's comprehensive it's not just one Basin it allows them all to be kind of managed uh by horticulturists that know what they're doing and uh includes weeding and um replanting if necessary if some of the good species die out uh and really is kind of an add-on it started with the Silver Lake biofiltration Area um at the corner of night and Lake Boulevard where um unintentionally City Maintenance did Crush some of the drain tile that was in the ba the bottom of that Basin and then then it stopped functioning from a storm water standpoint so um these folks are using small equipment or just hand tools um and they're definitely well qualified to make sure that that sort of thing doesn't happen again which the fix for that was a lot of funding from both the city and the Watershed District to repair that um back to where it was previously and so um these dollars will help everything working from a storm water standpoint but also hopefully reduce complaints from the people that live around them like and how they're kept up and how they're managed how about round Silver Lake on the the South Side there where they're trying to bring it back to Natural is that they look at that too as far as noce trees are starting to pop up and starting to yeah don't think that they manage Shoreline um if we wanted an opinion I think they'd be qualified but we've also got the Watershed district is doing any work on that Shoreline uh is going to require a permit from The Watershed District as well too so that may be a coordination item if we're thinking some of those volunteer trees are getting out of control um but there is there has been some kind of partnership back and forth in the corner there knowing that uh city does City Public Works does do some mowing so there's some areas that are mowed like lawn areas but aren't Shoreline that require permitting and then there's other areas that require kind of more hand workk I guess from right now it seemed like this summer was a test and it seemed to work out really good I think they're probably the best they've looked in a while and uh the pond dredging and maintenance um that's different than the in gardens that's kind of some of our catch ponds that get filled with sediment that we Monitor and they it might have to be mucked out in the winter time to make have the capacity to keep everything flowing and working the way this whole category not that it would affect the budget um is there an education partnership opportunity there where does one go to learn the people that we hire to do this umh is any of that coming from centry um so the the city could certainly provide educational materials to the public I think both Watershed districts that are within the city so Valley branch is that area immediately around Silver Lake pretty specifically and then most of the city is Ramsey Washington Metro Watershed District they always are looking for opportunities to um provide more educational material now there may be a cost share but you know uh uh I was more wondering about like like the student build housing or the teachers at oh where you to learn this is that sort of educational opportunity that I'm not aware of but I think that um there's certainly North St Paul and other cities have some versions of this infrastructure that if there were an educational facility like the high school for example or you know grade school or something from a technical college standpoint that wanted to you know learn more more about how we do things we'd be open to that we had uh years ago we participated North St Paul participated with the U ofm resiliency program where we actually had uh a lot of graduate and undergrad uh students come out and build their Capstone projects and everything from engineering to like law to community planning um and that was many many years ago but you know one of the things was that I participated on was a a hydrology class with some some uh engineering students at the University and they did a study in terms of uh phosphorus loading it's going to sound really boring and Engineering like but phosphorus loading within the community and how and what were some of the more most coste effective ways that they could identify you know is it building more ponds is it doing you know and so and one of the outcomes from that study by those students was that the most cost one of the most costeffective methods was kind of advanced or increased or more aggressive streets Sweeping in and around kind of our Lake areas um I just think you guys are doing early or double or more more street sweeping in around those Lake areas than in the past as a result of that right so um I think the opportunities are there I I don't know of anything specifically but if someone were to contact public works or even myself I'd certainly you know encourage it as something to consider especially if it's you know low or no cost the city other questions or resources um in terms of um invasive species um are there um ways in which you're doing that to manage now sometimes we have talk about um different ways of managing Vats um for example is that something or the the for the pond maintenance um just kind of generally well no that has been brought up to my attention multiple times about the goat so it's definitely something we're gonna check into again I don't have any experience with that but uh there there's there's a grant out there for it correct apparently there's a grant out there for goats and um yeah they'll come in and eat up all your buck Thorn and the tires off your car if you're not careful but no that's stuff that we're going to check into to Big Ticket item read utility 11 AG 11 so what you're seeing here is in 20 25 27 29 are bonding reconstruction project that you can see where the Sea Boulevard conversion design plan design in terms of the pavement pavement Rehabilitation plan um or Pro uh project um there was some discussion around um how streets were selected um based off of the of the PCI index PCI um we I think we had a question about what is the ideal like range um that we'd be shooting for um we I mean how much right right of it are we doing that's an important question and I know I wasn't at the last meeting so if I'm repeating things that were discussed I mean just interrupt me or whatever but um I think that uh every um every year we take a quick look at the city's Street condition um reexamining it uh boots on the ground a third of the city at a time so every third year we've got a reasonably accurate um representation from a PCI standpoint thr at a 100 scale to be able to kind of um rate distresses or cracks or failures um with a 100 being a brand new road that was just built and zero being pretty much it's gone to gravel at that point um to truly answer your question what is the right number it's going to vary City to City so um in my experience in North St Paul uh things have been more budget constrained or budget driven you know to do as much as you know financially feasible at any given time whether that's a larger project or a smaller project um and a couple different cadences have been used throughout the years but this idea of you know a larger reconstruct project uh like uh 2025 on the on the CIP is listed Buel Gerald and Shaunie drive that so that's up by Casey Lake area that's an area that has been in some fashion or another on the capital Improvement plan or pavement preservation map since 2013 really and it was out there right and so it's still in the future but that's one category of project that is more invasive it's certainly more expensive it also entails more underground work and um I think as myself and public Public Works have kind of convened uh over the well the last two budget cycles and CIP development uh Cycles we see less of those projects moving forward I know this is a 10-year plan but sometimes we're trying to predict you know how things might uh evolve I guess in terms of an approach so you see a couple here in the odd years I'll say the odd years 25 27 29 um uh and we see more of a shift towards again pavement pavement preservation less underground utility work although as you dig into the actual project possibilities here we are trying to identify some other utility Enterprise funding for things like manhole castings or things that might be utility related but you would take care of while you're doing an overlay for example we're trying to be comprehensive with that um being budget constrained the North St Paul city council has never had that uh active conversation about chosing a Target PCI number on average for the whole city um other cities do uh it's I can't say that the number that for example the city of mamei uses for a Target is going to be the right target for North St Paul it's probably would be a really Dum thing to say but it depends um one you know right now I guess based on uh on the right page here I think that for this year or going into next year the average PCI for the city is 56.4 okay um again using mamei who WSB does similar work with and who uh they have set a Target and um they uh have a similar amount of M roadway miles I guess just for comparison but again totally different Community different roads they have a lot of uncurved Roads there umal drainage in some of the areas so I don't think it's it's you cannot use this as an Apples to Apples comparison but they have a a a target of 78 there is a gap there in terms of where North St Paul's average road rating is and another city now um if the city council wanted to have further discussion doesn't have to be right now to you know modify or impact this particular CIP but as cips are things that are Revisited on an annual basis and can evolve you know in that 10year time frame that you're looking ahead that certainly would be something that um you know could help the city council and the public understand this is what we're shooting for um but when you shift from you know a budget constrained model I guess in terms of trying to evaluate what's next or what streets are next or what size project is next and if you go to a like a PCA Target constrained model just using the software as a model that doesn't necessarily mean that that's what you set your budget at but if you want to try to achieve something um then you know the uh funding levels probably are going that it's reporting back are probably going to be higher than you know what we have when what is proposed in this Capital Improvement plan and probably from what has been you know or implemented in the past I would say right so I know that um Ron had had some information that I gave him using just some general scenarios that we're trying to help inform not knowing what the right size of investment is on an annual or every other year basis but just trying to get a feeling for you know the what if scenarios um I think what what we have here uh and maybe we're I would admit that probably we're a bit conservative so I think that you know what was reported to you before is that at this level in of investment or a similar level investment for pavement preservation um plus the uh maintenance dollars that Finance director Winnick mentioned earlier together um that that that level of funding is not necessarily going to hold the average where it is it might decrease slightly over time and kind of a corollary question that came out of that was well you know what would it take like what kind of what level of investment would it take to hold it um the same so again there's a lot of uh it's it's only as good as the information that you put in so there's a lot of assumptions here but I did kind of ask the model those questions you assume in the even years only reclaim project which are more expensive they go through all the asphalt Pavements but they last longer than just regular overlay um the annual budget or amount needed to hold the average PCI where it is right now is approximately 2.4 million dollar a year all in not just go to um the indirect cost that go along with that if we assume in the even years only Mill and overlays uh the annual ual budget needed to hold the average PCA is approximately $1.9 million each now if you look at the budget numbers that are included in the CIP for pavement preservation and I my screen went off but it was like right around 1.7 you at approximately $300,000 give or take for um there could be maintenance overlays and maintenance overlays will uh impact positively the overall average score for the city right so that can be counted uh there are other things that are needed with those dollars too I'm sure whether that's filling potholes or other things right so you don't want to count all of that but it's I guess from my where I sit my opinion is you're not too far off from that and I think that's born by the numbers that we saw from an average PCI projection where we're at right now only slightly decreasing right it does go down you're not that there that far off and really there's so many factors that go into how long a roadway lasts right and that's why we rate the roads a third every year is because the computer's just assuming that an overlay is going to last X number of years I don't know number is but if you build that road on or if that road was built originally on really poor soils um it might be 15 years or less if it's decent soils and it's holding up well I mean it could be 20 or 25 years so there is some give or take with that kind of assumption that a funding number is going to hold an average if making that statement is important and it that may again the North St Paul has never set a Target it's always tried to do I guess from a general sense from a funding constraint or funding feasibility standpoint what can be done and trying to spend those dollars in the right order uh at the right time to try to maximize or have those dollars go as long long as they can knowing that sometimes it's not about um proving the worst streets first sometimes it makes sense to do some maintenance overlays or some um interim improvements to a roadway to try to extend its life to the point where uh you know maybe you can count on another 20 years out of that road before you come back to it as opposed to just doing every 15 years or less you're going to have to at some point every road is going to uh reach its of serviceable life or get to the point where it's past the point where uh it can be overlaid right you're just kind of putting a Band-Aid on it it might look good for a couple years but it it those cracks on any overlay do come through um and so The Balancing Act here is to try to get as many of those roads and this goes to that shift of mindset as I was saying from Big underground reconstruct projects to more coverage on a pavement preservation standpoint over time could be 10 years away right before that total shift happens um but knowing that if some of that existing roadway that um might be in that uh I don't know 35 to 55 or 60 some somewhere in that realm where it can still be uh overlaid that um you'll be able to you know get the most out of those roads before it turns in into a large reconstruct W I'll just add we have the road studies done we go off that we we talk to the guys that do the black topping that walk the streets walk every foot of the street we all sit down talk and we just don't solely go off all right here's the all the lowest we're starting from the bottom you know the lowest scoring going up and that's how we're going to decide there's a kind of a lot of factors that go into it guys are like oh my God this road is way worse than this one and you know so we we factor a lot of different things does this road have Curb on and curb and gutter how much curb and gutter is going to have to be replaced on when we're doing these we're not going in and redoing all the curb and gutter in there but we look at well this don't won't take a ton of curban gutter so we can get more Road Covered the whole idea behind this whole process is is that there's we have so many roads that are are bad we're trying to get as much covered as we can um so we can tell the residents you know if we can get these roads covered up it'll buy us some time with the budget that we have and just try to get the most bang for our buck right now and we'll do this for a couple years see how see how we feel it's working out um and then go from there I think one thing that just also comes to mind as actor and I think we meeting too was um in regards to the the um the um visibility of that it adds and how the tradeoff may be whether uh for instance a sidewalk can go in or so delay that may delay um for another 20 years so with that said and looking at some of the plans and I'm just wondering if an update to the living streets plan Andor be helpful in arming the payment rehabilitation I would say that from a pavment rehabilitation standpoint um that could be held separate and as Ron was talking about other factors that go into whether or not a project might um be included or not like for example a planned sidewalk or um or a water main brakes is a one a driver from a maintenance standpoint um might be a street that might be perfect for a millon overlay but if the water man underneath it is failing constantly then it probably needs to be replaced and and might need to be fully reconstructed just to be able to get at that under um from a living streets plan standpoint um I'll defer to community development director how's opinion certainly I would say that there is um some good information in the comprehensive plan with respect to planed sidewalks that I think at the time was in intended to um hopefully supersede or at least provide more clear direction from a a non-motorized facility standpoint than the living streets plan originally did going back to 2010 or or about that time is when that was completed and adopted by Council there's a lot of discussion about um and projects reconstruct projects that the city LED that sidewalks that were identified within the living streets and were actually left out of that project whatever reason so um the comprehensive plan and the the chapter on pedestrian facilities or whatever it's called was supposed to help inform that certainly there might be um an opportunity for more information or different information than that as time goes on but I guess at this point usually what I would do is refer to the living streets plan and the comprehensive plan where that falls in terms of plan facilities and go from there would agree has enough detail like it's updated enough if to the point that we have projects that would necessitate or we could do another approach and say maybe we need a policy on definitively if we're right that kind of um in congruent approach to maybe a previously adopted planes the city to do everything that their plans say but that no consist consistency requirement for the non-com in the city correct and that would be like your point is that might be a policy disc yeah any other questions I'll just say that I still think it's under I absolutely I was going I was going to use this for closing statement but I think I'll use it now we've heard the words budget constraints we've heard we see that there's a lot of need how we move the c Index since the time that I arrived here we've made Quantum leaps our city council support and what have we done we've developed and we're maintaining a capital Improvement plan that's 10 years that didn't exist what have we starting this year or last year we started the other component to it carrying it forward this year 10year Financial plans planning up how you're going to fund it right at last year the insurance kicked in reduced the amount that we wanted to put in for this Rehabilitation this year took a different concept and a different approach dedicated levies for these May if you heard me 2% may not have been the correct amount and maybe two and a half but we're moving in the right direction and it's all due to the city let's keep on moving and yes even at 2% there's a budget constraint moving in the right direction I I applaud what this city um I did I did wanted to get that I was going to be my closing statement but now I'll have to come up with another one look forward to that but uh got all Fai in the world in you the next next item uh that we have and this is I think our last item because we started off with vehicles and equipment is the utility infrastructure preservation these are some pretty big ticket items and these are items that are related to our Enterprise bonds questions on there some big ticket items that I that which is replacement is they is there any opportunity with the federal infrastructure the top I I I don't know there certainly are for EV charging stations um in the area but just seeing and hearing things around in different cities um don't you know if like the big ticket item being underground wire replacement is probably a maintenance overy year thing that you got to replace the old so a lot of times um maintenance whatever might not score as well as expansion or enhancement of a system from a Lancy or sustainability standpoint but Dan point it certainly could be some I understanding is that literally with the EV Chargers that just across the board there's just not enough of that infrastructure unless you but um this be also State froming um it' be more of a destination if we head with the required lead and I I think this is the right category with the required lead pipe test that they're requiring everyone to do um are we expecting more direction of replacement that we're going to have to build into this in the future it is identified once the testing component of this is done as a city I would answer yes you don't know exactly what that's going to look like until we kind of go through this initial inventory phase um I think it's also gonna poent different cities will be different but you know say that if one City shows a greater need than another I think it might driveing availability potentially of I ija funds which are to roll through the drinking water Revol oh we have come across just with reconstruction projects a couple that I'm aware of maybe a little more um Leed service lines I don't think that we think that there's entire neighborhoods or anything like that um but we'll have to go through that process of that inventory see what it says and then and depending on how competitive those Grant dollars are see you know how they could captured some cities who are ahead of the curve or they know they have known for some time that they've had they have some issues that need to be addressed um they're already on the um intended use priority list if you want to call it with the drinking water uh revolving fund and so uh there are 20 2024 that are getting out lot of outstate communities but um in some larger cities like St so that could certainly uh it could you know you might have an area where if identified for capture of some of those dollars but at the same time we have some problem Mainline water M that would all get replaced at the same help offset water dollars for those types of at this point we just don't have the information to say it's this street or it's this area or do we even really have um an identified that's not you know a specific service here or service there is it can it even be packaged into a project we don't know that if you had a guess what year would you say the state would say that they want to set for a target for all lead lines to be eliminated 2045 is that has stated I don't know it hasn't been stated what I what kind of got out of the the webinars and things I've sat in on that is that they don't know how big this is going to get and when they talked about funding what they're going to have for Grants what they're going to have for help um what they're going to have for help for residents for City part I think that the first step here is them kinding to just gather and it's going to take it's going to take years to gather this information legitimately and when they talk about Escavating like I said if if I could have access to everyone's home tomorrow and find out what is in their house I still don't know what's on the other side of that curb stop connecting to the main i i i there's just not a perfect way to do that unless you excavate and that's that's possible to do that when you talk about bad roads they dig through the roads to find out what's going on there so they really they're very vague on what they're saying they're like hey we'll take this step there's going to be money money hey you can put in for help but we don't need I think one one of the webinars that sat in they said hey're we have and I don't quote me on these numbers but we have $40 million set aside for this and it's a hundred billion dollar project you know so they they they're so far apart on where things are at so I I don't know we don't really have anything honed in on that yet or when that's going to be I want to get through this first step you know I got till what August 16th of 24 October or excuse me October yeah cut myself short here we're gonna need those two mons yeah so anyway yeah I we don't have a good answer for that yet I I just have the expectation that this could be one of the big balloons out there that could be a surprise number for us as a city along with all the other cities so I was just kind of wondering what your thoughts are if you agree with that statement of a potential big cost for the city in a 20 to a 25 year plan I at least with the information I have available right now and you guys you agree or disagree I don't see it as being something where we think we're gonna find like to use the word balloon I guess I I I wouldn't characterize it like that there may be some costs and every to like as Ron said a lot of the agencies out there whether it's Department of Health or others they just keep talking about hey there's there's money there's going to be money there there's going to be money there for you now how that gets kind of prioritized and and whether it's competitive or not you know that's yet to be seen um so I think as soon as we have more clarity in terms of well what do we know and some of what at you know after you get to October of 2024 we know that you know we're not going to dig holes at every single Water Service in the city right there are going to be some that are going to be categorized as um unknown unknown or unknown with maybe you know just based on the age of the housing stock or the age of the water man that's in the street based on you know available information what year that was installed there is in you know there's a way to kind of uh categorize this and not going to know every inch of pipe necessarily underground but we can at least try to provide some sort of a a matrix so that the city and the state agencies and ultimately the EPA at Washington DC are able to get a little bit clearer picture of what's going on and what's so hard about it I've been here for 16 years um just the water Bain braks I've worked on been in the holes where you see somebody's line you have your this house hey this house was built in 1898 and they have a copper water line we came across it and that would be you think that' be L what so there's really no and I think I have seen probably we've come across probably five say a handful of lead services and if we've seen them in the ground we've got replaced them um again this is back you know going back the last 16 years knowing what we know now it be that hey we'd be able to document that and have that information but um there's just no real Rhyme or Reason I think you they're long you to eliminate houses that were built after uh 1976 I believe you can kind of take off the list as lead but on the flip side of that you really don't know what's going out to that main you really don't know but so it it's going to be a work in progress and appreciate that I really didn't give you a good answer but no that's what I know for now to to me you guys are more educated than I am so how concerned you guys are about that balloon or or possible Big Ticket item I've been losing for the last couple months I'm like I gotta get this done we get this done but wsp is gonna help us and you know just get this first step done and then I think it's just going to be kind of going from there to see how things are gonna and we did put in for some funding assistance for a chunk of that which we haven't heard back from them but we expect that the department of health will be paying for I don't know what is the overall effort or half able to apply for some of that assistance with that for this first step get that going and then moving forward here I'll be looking for every opportunity that we can other questions does PX impact your work here yeah oh here in North St Paul no not no not at this time but I'm I'm familiar one of what I can tell you about the p is that we never tested we never had to test for it up until the last year um Min Department of Health they extended the range out a little bit um we have um they've tested all of our wells they've detected some which is it's a super super low level it's not even you know close uh dangerous or anything like that but they've expanded out the area out from the campsite and they're just going to keep monitoring um two of our wells that had a trace in it but there's nothing that's close to dangerous level we have gotten through the CIP plan now I haven't heard any changes for the 2024 all the amounts that are in here for the 2024 column are included in in other source was the general fund you've already seen it if it's in the basically we've gone through everything I'm not hearing any again to kind of recap we're looking at the you know more information and Equipment counseling um sources that there's a lot ums in some other areas the next years um education that we're putting that two out that's going to allow us cash flow some major reconstruction projects instead of bonding um at the transportation plan plan making sure that they're doing in you know also aware of we go to the bottom line 10 years got 79 million dollar that have been identified and I think what we can see from the conversation today this isn't right and if we were to go higher or lower what just show is that is there was The Price is Right Price is Right higher or lower what would you go higher or lower higher absolutely higher so again what we're doing today and starting to dedicate some of those those Levy dollars is achieving in the right path of where we're going I absolutely you know feel for the residents that you know that it is a levy impact and I know each and every one of you do but if we don't we're going to be paying much much more into the future going to lose residence because we don't have adequate streets we don't have adequate parks and when that comes the burden's going to get even higher and higher but the costs have not so I want to conclude with I want to thank each and every one of uh the department heads for being here they're the ones who submit this they also get together and review everybody's CIP Plan before it is ever presented hold together City want to thank uh Mary K um developing this plan she took the leadership role in in compiling all of this information integrated want to thank Brian for for his support manager and leading the direction and making sure that we're doing this planning because if we don't plan we can't plan for funding we don't have funding doesn't matter what we do ever nothing's ever going to happen and I want to thank the city council support that they give to dep head just thank you everyone for your work and putting this plan together Monday night yeah football game kickoff is in 10 minutes ah plan accordingly the meeting did we want to can we do that here can we I don't know we we we received the letter from some cannot good not thank you that's on special all right there we go we got that answer all right there we go thank you all forj all right everybody all those in favor say I I swe and Co thank you I just made up two names good thing they're both here it was a tie everybody was a tie Tech