This transcript is from a City of Grant, MN Townhall/City Council meeting. Based on the context and known officials, the speakers have been identified as follows: * **Mayor Huber:** The meeting chair. * **Kim Points:** City Clerk/Administrator. * **Brad Hanson:** City Engineer. * **Christina Scipioni:** City Attorney. * **Councilmember Giefer (Tom), Councilmember Rock (Bob/Jeff), Councilmember Clark (John), and Councilmember Tufty.** *** **[0:03] Mayor Huber:** ...the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all thank you. **[0:18] Mayor Huber:** Councilman, we've all had an opportunity to take a look at our regular agenda this evening can I get a motion to approve that please. **[0:22] Councilmember Giefer:** I'll still move. **[0:24] Mayor Huber:** Do I have a second, Bob? **[0:25] Councilmember Rock:** Second. **[0:26] Kim Points:** Councilmember Giefer? Aye. Councilmember Rock? Aye. Councilmember Tufty? Aye. Councilmember Clark? Aye. Mayor Huber? Aye. **[0:43] Mayor Huber:** All right thank you Kim. Uh you've had your consent agenda with our bill extended for about a week now I would entertain a motion to approve our consent agenda please. **[0:53] Councilmember Giefer:** So moved. **[0:55] Mayor Huber:** Do I have a second, John? **[0:57] Councilmember Clark:** Second. **[0:58] Kim Points:** Councilmember Giefer? Aye. Councilmember Rock? Aye. Councilmember Tufty? Aye. Councilmember Clark? Aye. Mayor Huber? Aye. **[1:05] Mayor Huber:** Aye. Thanks Kim. Brad, good thing we got you fixed as we're coming right to you first. Brad so once you go ahead and take over for our public hearing I don't know if you want to kind of talk about that a little bit or you just want me to fire it open what do you say. **[1:15] Brad Hanson:** Okay let me introduce the project a little bit but I'll turn it over to you for the public hearing to conduct the public assessment hearing for the project on Honeysuckle and 115th. This project was originally petitioned by residents that live on those streets um and last November actually and through the process the council had approved the public hearing and moving forward and ordering the Improvement project after the hearing I think in April and then in May Council authorized me to go out for bids for the project. We did receive bids for the project uh at the amount of $299,873 and 30 cents uh the construction costs indirect costs including legal administrative costs are a total of $350,873.30 and the city has budgeted uh and is contributing $34,785 dollars and 30 cents to the project. **[2:36] Brad Hanson:** Uh again the the improvements are anticipated to be funded by special assessments to the benefiting properties in accordance with the assessment policy and Minnesota state statute 429 uh the total benefit amount to be assessed is the project costs minus the city's uh contributing amount which is a total of $316,088. Uh there are 25.75 buildable units for this project uh there are three units that are a quarter unit uh those those uh Parcels are either fronting another road or their driveway comes off of uh another road for the city's uh assessment policy uh that the assessment for buildable unit is $12,275.26. Um and anyone wishing to object to the assessment must do so in writing and file with the city clerk 30 days after this assessment hearing uh assessments are proposed to be paid in equal annual installment amounts over 15 years for a single family residential property beginning in January of 2024 with an annual interest rate of four and a half percent um per annum. Uh the assessment may be paid in whole with no interest charged at the entire assessment is paid within 30 days of the adoption the assessment the council May at its discretion defer payments of this special assessment for any Homestead property owned by a person 65 years of age or older or retired by virtue of a permanent or total disability for whom it would be a hardship to make the payment so with that said mayor I would turn uh turn it over to you for questioning before the the hearing or go ahead and you can conduct the hearing. **[4:34] Mayor Huber:** Real good uh Brad just real quick Let's uh clarify a couple of things because they it's not a bit mix to my ear um 30 days from this hearing in order to object in writing is that correct. **[4:47] Brad Hanson:** Correct. **[4:48] Mayor Huber:** And then from this hearing date 30 days to pay with no interest correct. **[4:52] Brad Hanson:** Correct. **[4:54] Mayor Huber:** Okay okay real good and then the deferment plan for those 65 and older with permanent disabilities or other such conditions uh when how has that been paid is that paid upon what sell the property? **[5:06] Brad Hanson:** Yeah is my understanding there. **[5:08] Mayor Huber:** Okay any other questions for Brad gentlemen before we open this public hearing now would be kind of the time to get some information from Brad. Jeff? No? Anyone else? **[5:19] Councilmember Giefer:** That's me. **[5:22] Mayor Huber:** Real good real good let's go ahead and open up our public hearing for the I like to call it Hone, but you just never know on that one Brad hold on yeah who knows. I'd like to find a guy that called it that anyway uh Honeysuckle / 115th Street and Hillcrest Court Street Improvement project. Like a motion to open up our public hearing so we can hear from our residents. **[5:41] Councilmember Giefer:** So move. **[5:44] Mayor Huber:** Mr. Giefer do I have a second? **[5:46] Councilmember Rock:** Second. **[5:48] Mayor Huber:** Thank you Bob. **[5:55] Kim Points:** Giefer, aye. Rock, aye. Tufty, aye. Clark, aye. Mayor, aye. **[6:00] Mayor Huber:** All right thank you Kim. So what we're going to do is go ahead and have anyone who is interested in speaking on this project come on up to the microphone and please sign in there's a sign up sheet up there um so we uh if we do need further Communications we won't be having sort of a back and forth with you we want to listen to what you're going to say and then we're going to go ahead and respond afterward if there's some things we can possibly help with. So do we have some folks here for this public hearing on Honeysuckle, 115th and Hillcrest Street? **[6:34] Kim Points:** And Mr. Mayor and council members if I could just add please speak clearly into the microphone so staff can hear. **[6:39] Mayor Huber:** Yeah yeah you can feel free to adjust it if that's necessary if you want to do that okay I'm going to ask one more time for any public comments regarding this project on Honeysuckle 115th Street and Hillcrest Street. **[6:52] Councilmember Giefer:** Motion to close. **[6:54] Mayor Huber:** But we have someone online. You know what, Kim, understood that we haven't had COVID in so long I'm not used to people popping up online that's almost a new one um and how do we handle this we this is the first time we've done it here at the uh at Town Hall Kim does that come through your computer through our speakers or not? Okay well let's go ahead and get them teed up then and we'll hear their concerns here and then if we get a full name and an address please. **[7:24] Resident (Ms. McCarthy):** Can you hear me? Yes yeah all right address is [Redacted] and on the letter that we received it says that the payment had to be made in full by November 10th doesn't say anything about paying it in 30 days from today. **[7:52] Brad Hanson:** Yeah mayor let me clarify that uh typically it is 30 days but November 10th gets us uh prior to Kim filing it to the county so I think we did put that information in the letter that they could pay it to the city prior to November 10th um so let let me clarify that they they do have uh until the 10th of November to pay it. **[8:13] Brad Hanson:** Well we haven't awarded a contract yet for the construction but uh OMG uh was the low apparent bidder for the project um they have done work for the city in the past on Justin Trail um the work shouldn't take more than two weeks once uh the contract is awarded and we've uh provide the notice to proceed to the contractor so at this time we're in anticipating the work starting not until after Labor Day but it should be completed before uh the middle of October. So we give them a large enough window to give competitive bids to get their work done but once they get started they'll stay on the project and complete it uh most likely within two weeks. **[9:24] Brad Hanson:** Yes you'll always have access to your driveway 24/7 there may be intermittent you know work being done right in front of your property at certain times but for the most part you'll have complete access to your to your driveway. **[9:41] Resident (Ms. McCarthy):** Okay and then um if there's any problems um do we complain to you or the company that does the work? **[9:51] Brad Hanson:** Yeah you would go through me first and then I'll relay uh the message to the contractor we typically have at least one meeting before the project starts where I get the contractors Foreman's information and the superintendent so in case something does come up we can communicate that information to them and then we'll be communicating on a regular basis. **[10:13] Resident (Ms. McCarthy):** So you won't be able to get in and out that sort of thing? **[10:16] Brad Hanson:** Yeah typically we only do one mailing to the uh the neighborhood and that would be just when we know the Project's going to start um we typically will have an inspector on site that will provide that information in the uh kickoff letter if you will so that in case you do have any questions that you could call that inspector but but really we only have the one communication and that's typically right before the project starts. **[10:48] Resident (Ms. McCarthy):** So then we have to come— **[10:52] Brad Hanson:** Yep you can certainly I would be the point of contact. No they will not be working on any Saturdays and Sundays unless the city would authorize that and typically that's not the case. **[11:09] Resident (Ms. McCarthy):** Okay all right are we good. **[11:12] Mayor Huber:** Okay real good all right Brad uh you're the point of contact on these uh this uh these contacts do not go through Kim in any way that you you handle all of that? **[11:22] Brad Hanson:** Yeah typically most of the I'll put out a letter the contact information mine contact information will be in that letter so that they can come to me directly with any questions they have on the project if it is if it's a some other emergency they certainly should go to Kim but if it's project related um they usually uh they typically can call me. **[11:45] Mayor Huber:** Okay well that's good to know I just want to kind of flesh that out uh to make sure we weren't uh on you too hard there see if we could spread the load but it sounds like you're uh you're well prepared here so uh looks like that's all we have. Kim do we have anyone else online? **[12:00] Kim Points:** No other commenters. **[12:03] Mayor Huber:** Okay let's go ahead and close our public hearing motion to close. **[12:04] Councilmember Giefer:** Motion to close. **[12:05] Councilmember Clark:** Second. **[12:06] Mayor Huber:** Thanks John. **[12:07] Kim Points:** Giefer, aye. Clark, aye. Rock, aye. Tufty, aye. Mayor, aye. **[12:12] Mayor Huber:** Thank you Kim. You've all had a chance to go ahead and go through Brad's memorandum and he hopefully kind of explained it and uh started it out for us. Total assessment $316,088 and then the payment options available on this uh for all of the classes of assessed properties. So looking for the consideration of resolution 2023-14 so that we can declare the costs—pardon me I wanted to jump right to it. 2023-14 I misread the number. Go ahead guys declaring the cost to be assessed. **[13:00] Councilmember Giefer:** So move resolution 2023-14 be approved. **[13:07] Councilmember Rock:** Second. **[13:08] Mayor Huber:** Thanks Bob. **[13:09] Kim Points:** Giefer, aye. Rock, aye. Clark, aye. Tufty, aye. Mayor, aye. **[13:21] Mayor Huber:** All right awesome thank you Kim now let's move to 2023-15 the certification of the special assessments for the Honeysuckle Avenue project. **[13:30] Councilmember Giefer:** I will move to approve resolution number 2023-15. **[13:36] Councilmember Clark:** I'll second that. **[13:38] Kim Points:** Giefer, aye. Clark, aye. Rock, aye. Tufty, aye. Mayor, aye. **[13:46] Mayor Huber:** Aye. Brad do you want to talk about 2023-16 before we move on that do you have anything to say? **[13:51] Brad Hanson:** Yeah please mayor. Um so the next resolution is accepting the bid for the project and typically uh in past projects we've awarded projects before the special assessment hearing uh this project we've done it a little differently where we are awarding this project after the assessment hearing. Now my understanding is people have 30 days to contest their assessment but but that must be in writing to the city clerk um for this project again I feel like it's a low risk to the city to award a contract tonight so we can certainly do that or if Council wishes we can certainly wait until the 30-day period is over and award this project at the September meeting. So we put this on there not knowing you know if we were going to get any contestments tonight um so uh we could either table it for next month or we could move on uh adopting resolution 2023-16 tonight. So uh with that mayor I would uh gladly answer any questions. **[14:48] Mayor Huber:** I understand why you did that Brad normally when we have these projects if there are contestants we hear from the people at the public hearing. I know when my road was done four years ago I think we had eight or ten people sign protests of that project here uh in front of the council so we don't have anyone here tonight of course those folks have 30 days from tonight's meeting would that also be a November 10th date Brad or is that 30 calendar— **[15:10] Brad Hanson:** Yeah they would still have up to November 10th to pay their assessments so if that's what you're asking. **[15:18] Mayor Huber:** No I'm not I'm asking if they were to file a complaint or file a protest. **[15:21] Brad Hanson:** No so so they have 30 days from tonight. **[15:24] Mayor Huber:** Okay so 30 calendar days to file those protests and people will be able to see this meeting online uh very quickly so I think we're safe actually awarding or accepting a bid and awarding a Construction contract. **[15:58] Councilmember Rock:** Oh sorry go ahead um so so Brad you mentioned that you know you could wait uh to the next meeting but what is the impact of doing this tonight versus waiting? **[16:03] Brad Hanson:** Uh really there's no impact I think the contractor is planning to start after Labor Day anyway I I'm not exactly sure the date of the September meeting um but it would just allow us to do all the pre-construction meetings at the end of this month so that when the contractor was ready to go to work in September if they decided they wanted to start right after Labor Day uh that week they would be ready and and and you know every all the agreements would be signed and ready to go. But if we don't and wait till the September meeting then typically getting contracts signed uh and get on getting all the administrative work done takes about two weeks so they wouldn't be able to probably start until mid or late September and that's really the only difference other than the you know the small risk that the city is taking on by assuming there's no contestants. **[16:51] Councilmember Rock:** Okay so that was my question about the contestants it really doesn't affect us by approving this today versus next month because if they're going to contest they're going to contest. **[16:59] Brad Hanson:** Correct. **[17:01] Mayor Huber:** Correct. Okay all right thank you. It changes nothing it's just a little more efficient way of doing it and like I said in history normally normally they're here right? You've seen that before John? **[17:15] Councilmember Clark:** I think mostly emails so yeah um I'll I'll move to approve resolution 2023-16. **[17:29] Councilmember Rock:** Second. **[17:31] Kim Points:** Clark, aye. Rock, aye. Giefer, aye. Tufty, aye. Mayor, aye. **[17:34] Mayor Huber:** Hi thank you Brad on that one let's move to our next here looks like we have another public hearing teed up for the Knollwood Drive Street Improvement project. Uh any questions for Brad on this or Brad do you just want to tear up for us first? **[17:48] Brad Hanson:** Yeah let me tee it up a little bit mayor. So this is a project uh back in 2020 I think in the summer 2020 we had a petition filed to the clerk uh by a resident that lived on Knollwood Drive. When we received that petition um 62 percent of the residents that lived on that street signed the petition originally um as we moved forward um through the petition and then on to the feasibility report that the council ordered and adopted I think in December of 2020 um both uh the Knollwood Drive and there were two other projects that were included with uh that Improvement project I think Inwood Avenue was one and 105th Street was the other and so there was three projects originally part of that feasibility report. Well at some point between ordering the feasibility report and getting to the public hearing we heard from the resident that had championed uh the petition that they no longer wanted to pursue or move forward with a project so at that time Council only ordered the improvements or the Improvement hearing for Inwood Avenue and 105th Street for that project. We held the public hearing for those two streets and nothing came about the residents were not in favor for a majority of the residents that attended that public hearing were not in favor so Council decided not to move forward with any of those streets. Well uh probably a couple months ago we did receive uh an email that was filed with the city clerk from the resident that originally petitioned uh or championed the petition of the improvements on Knollwood Drive and we brought that forward at last month's meeting with a revised cost and feasibility report that reflected the cost for construction in 2023 or 2024 um so we as a staff recommended moving forward with the public hearing for this project and that's what we're here tonight to discuss and to conduct is a public hearing on whether or not uh the council wants to order the improvements for Knollwood Drive. **[20:10] Brad Hanson:** Now you know I have gotten a few questions from residents living on this on this particular Street asking about voting and I just want to remind everybody that you know we typically or we do not do any formal voting on whether or not a project moves forward this is you know the the council's discretion whether to move the project uh for from this point um again you know I think Council really likes to hear from uh residents living on the street whether they're in favor or not in favor either in writing or at this public hearing so we really appreciate and really uh want people to come out and express their opinions one way or the other but again we don't take a formal vote on these kind of issues we let the council uh decide based on the the available information that they have at their discretion to decide whether or not to move a project forward. You know at this point the City is at complete risk for the monies that have been spent on this project to date including the feasibility report it's not really until you get to the assessment hearing where uh which is the you know further down the process of the Minnesota state statute uh special assessment process and so um it really does not uh impact whether the the project is ordered tonight or not the only impact is again at the risk of the city of putting together plans and specs and going out for bids. So I guess with that said mayor I would certainly uh open up to questions from the Council of yourself gentlemen. **[22:04] Mayor Huber:** Okay first and obvious question have you heard from Inwood and 105th? **[22:15] Brad Hanson:** No so they are not part of this hearing at all they again decided back in 2020 or the council decided not to order that Improvement on those on those streets so we're really just uh we're able to dissect the feasibility report use the information because we've already completed that for Knollwood even though it was done uh two and a half years ago. I think City policy allows us to go up to three years using the same feasibility report um so that that is what we've done but the champions for those two projects in wooden 105th has anyone reached out to them I mean are they aware that no one knows. **[22:52] Brad Hanson:** So in our city policy mayor states that after the initial public hearing so we've had again the public hearing that we had back in 2020 or 2021 was just for uh those two streets 105th Street and Inwood and it did not include Knollwood drive because they did not want to move forward and so um at that time the project you know or information hearing was held but after the hearing uh there was not enough sediment or sentiment sorry um other residents to move forward so Council decided not to move forward with a public hearing. Now in our City assessment policy the city citizens of those two streets or the residents of those two streets would have to repetition the city if they wanted to uh move beyond the public Improvement hearing and they would have to have at least 75 percent of the residents um signing a new petition and we would have to start all over so to answer your question no we have not received anything from either one of those streets to move those projects forward. **[24:00] Mayor Huber:** Understood they were turned down that turns the process on its head and you start over. You see what I'm trying to do I want to try to recoup the city's costs that we put in the administrative and we put in into the investigation of this project and the initial engineering so we always try to pull those folks back in if we can at lower costs. **[24:19] Councilmember Tufty:** Tom, well not to mention that everybody might get a lower assessment because you have more people doing it like lower the cost for everybody so right. **[24:32] Brad Hanson:** And just to note we to answer the question is we didn't reach out to them nobody reached out we we haven't reached out to them we typically let them reach out to us and so I you know I didn't feel like it was necessary since uh they decided back in 2021 or whatever it was to not move forward so um they might have said no so we don't know. **[24:52] Mayor Huber:** Yeah it's uh again the process just to let you all understand in the audience and at home the process resets we do not go out looking for streets to do to assess you that's Saint Paul that's Minneapolis you get a letter that says say congratulations your street's getting done it's not how it works out here you have to come to the council and make us understand that you want that done is it ultimately up to us are we empowered to do a street sure but we've tied our own hands by having you do it so that empowers our residents doesn't empower the council that's the way Grant sort of runs. It would it be nice to get those other two in absolutely it would I would like to have seen those those in there and I wish they would have jumped on but that is upon them. All right um any other questions for Brad Jeff nothing. **[25:46] Mayor Huber:** Okay let's go ahead and open our public hearing if you're ready unless you got a question. **[25:48] Councilmember Giefer:** I would like to move uh we open the public hearing. **[25:54] Mayor Huber:** All right Mr. Giefer is ready to hear and we got Bob on the second. **[25:57] Kim Points:** Giefer, aye. Rock, aye. Tufty, aye. Clark, aye. Mayor, aye. **[26:01] Kim Points:** All right thank you Kim. Council members I would like to begin the public hearing saying that I did receive comments from some residents uh Justin and Jessica Betchel at 9220 Knollwood Drive they had a couple of questions but basically their feedback was uh they support moving forward with the Knollwood Drive repaving Project based on the current estimated costs. Uh Joni Knutson um is very supportive of continuing with this process. And you received a letter from Bradford Anderson Nori and Hamarato uh on behalf of the resident at see where his address is here uh address 9211 Knollwood Drive North and basically this letter outlines uh several different reasons and a request to um put this project on hold until uh some other issues are taken care of such as the city properly notifying residents so that was their request for the public hearing they wanted it on the public record that they would like to stop the project at this point. **[27:18] Mayor Huber:** Okay and that letter was from the resident or from their representative? **[27:21] Kim Points:** It was their on behalf of the resident at 9211 Knollwood Drive. **[27:26] Mayor Huber:** Thank you very much so we've got two yeses and the no there okay let's go ahead and open it up to the public do we have some folks here who would like to speak on this Knollwood project? Feel free yeah we'd like you to come stand up and write down your address and feel free to adjust that microphone if you like we are we're not very aggressive up here it's pretty easy we just listen. **[28:17] Terry Frederickson:** I'm Terry Frederickson my address is 9190 Knollwood Drive and I had thought I had sent a email to Kim but she doesn't mention it so I want to make sure that I'm on record with you as fully supporting moving ahead with the project our road is in need of real improvement and this is the only way to get it I'm strongly in favor. One note before I sit down my compatriots would be very disappointed if you were to get off as easily as I would have let you uh I think the council's road policy is inspired given the hand you're dealt with in the city of Grant you keep our taxes low and I think the burden of maintaining improving streets is very equitably laid back on the citizens and democracy being what it is that's an imperfect solution but is absolutely the best that we have and I think our support along Knollwood at this point is very strongly in favor of the council moving forward to the next step thank you very very much. **[29:56] Mayor Huber:** Thank you sir mm-hmm the audio is not picking us up it doesn't go up any higher. So this gentleman wrote down his address so we have that and we have a yes from him. **[30:25] Kim Points:** Yep I got it okay. **[30:41] Marilyn Ochs:** Good evening I'm Marilyn Ochs and my husband Jim we're at 9130 Knollwood Drive and we both totally support this change in the road to get this taken care of and hopefully improve you know the road that we have so that's our street and then Ann Crum who is across the street from us wasn't able to come but she also sent a note over to say that she was in favor of doing this so I can give this to you so that is both us and the Crums that are supportive thank you. **[31:37] Mayor Huber:** Thank you. **[31:40] Joni Knutson:** Hello I'm Joni Knutson from 9235 Knollwood Drive um I just had a question if we have more if we're going to be able to have more input after the bids come out. **[31:54] Mayor Huber:** Brad do you want to take that do you hear that? **[31:58] Brad Hanson:** Understanding what kind of input are you looking for are you looking for input to the design or do you have questions about Communications or typically what happens after this point we would be authorized by council to prepare the plans and specs um for this road and and and for this road we would typically go out and do some geotechnical work as well as scoring of the the existing pavement and then below the aggregate base just to make sure we have a good base underneath the road before we um do the improvements um so all that information is gathered and then we put together the plans and specs when we go off for bids. So um I'm not sure what kind of input that you're looking for or what kind of communication you're looking for. **[32:48] Joni Knutson:** Cost wise. **[32:50] Brad Hanson:** Yeah so the cost again we estimated the assessments at $25,000 uh just over $25,000 uh the project cost to date that we're estimating are $219,000 dollars uh just over that and typically when I do my estimates I'm fairly conservative so that when we do get bids in that uh the assessments will go down based on the construction costs um so um we would provide more information as far as what the cost will actually be at the assessment hearing similar to what we did tonight with um uh you know the Honeysuckle Avenue Improvement project so there will be opportunities to get more information on the final cost once we get to that point if if Council decides to move forward with ordering the improvements tonight. **[33:48] Joni Knutson:** And there will be another opportunity to vote on that if the price is higher than the original estimate? **[33:55] Brad Hanson:** At the time of the assessment you know as we talked about tonight at the assessment hearing there's a time for residents to contest their assessment so if if I'm wrong with my conservative estimates and for some reason it goes up uh you know significantly from where it's at uh the time to voice your concerns would be at the assessment hearing and so you would have an opportunity to contest um your assessment and um if there's an overwhelming amount of people that are contesting their assessments then the council could kill the project at that point and not award a Construction contract. **[34:40] Joni Knutson:** Will we see another vote besides what we're doing tonight? **[34:43] Brad Hanson:** Um again it's it's it's really not a formal vote it's just people uh participating in the public assessment hearing and again that would be the opportunity for residents to come and voice their opinions to the council because that at this point it's really the project is driven by the council but it's but it's using your uh and and other residents input to get gather information on whether or not to move the project forward. So um I I guess I don't know what else to say there other than you know the next opportunity would be the second public hearing and which would be the assessment hearing after we received bids and know the ultimate cost of the project. **[35:31] Mayor Huber:** So what what are you saying just to clear that up just make it a little shorter just like the last project we talked about you would have 30 days you'd have 30 days if those costs came in and you thought those costs just weren't tenable for you you would be able to voice your opinion at that point. Again we're looking to be driven by the neighbors on these streets we're not looking to make these decisions ourselves we want you to make them so that's what I I want to do there now I have a couple of things that I want to say but it has to be after the public hearing. So Kim... whoops. **[36:03] Mayor Huber:** Kim can you take care of that for us please? So while they're doing that... **[36:21] Kim Points:** I am muted the microphone the laptop completely off. **[36:25] Mayor Huber:** Okay you're completely yeah okay you're good. I just wanted to say very clearly because it's it's confusing and assessment hearing is a public hearing it's not just them ordering the assessments it is a public hearing similar to this where you come up and say hey those preliminary costs were $20,000 per resident they came in at $25,000 dollars we do not want this project to move forward so that is your time to talk about the bids okay again you're going to drive us right okay so but we are going to take in the totality right for everyone that we hear from so as Kim said earlier I already said I wanted to go through with it you wanted to move forward and there is a difference we have eight residents on the street and I believe seven of the eight are interested. We have one more person to talk here um so that's all I have thank you. **[37:36] Tara Christue:** Thank you hello my name is Tara Christue I live at 9060 Knollwood my husband and I are in favor of the project provided that everyone is equally assessed there was a point where some of the Lots three of the eight Lots were double assessed based on the availability of splitting the lots and that's since been changed provided it's not changed back we're in favor. So I want to thank all of you for your hard work I know that the this is hard on many levels the volume the controversy etc. I appreciate it I wouldn't want to do it I'm not going to take a turn. So I have a question for Brad I don't see him is he still here I see Kim I see oh he's just not up. Hi hi um I have a question about 2016 Knollwood was supposed to get sealcoated but they weren't do you have records as to why that didn't go through because we haven't had a seal coating for 19 years and I'm curious to know how that happened. **[38:43] Brad Hanson:** Yeah so I'm not sure when the last seal coating happened on Knollwood um but I know that the city again uses maintenance dollars for these projects as well and so I think in 2020 we decided uh since um this project was petitioned we didn't we haven't done any maintenance for the last couple of years um and so except for maybe some pothole patching and things like that um I'm not sure what happened to 2016 I I came on board I think late 2015 or something like that and so I'm not sure if the road got seal coated or not as part of the Street Maintenance project. But again I know there was money allocated for Knollwood Drive I think the number let me look it's $16,431 dollars that was budgeted for maintenance which would be the seal coating and so maybe it wasn't done in 2016 but I I have a feeling that those monies were allocated in 2020 um but anyway um if if this project does not move forward I know there are some issues with the road and so we could certainly use those uh maintenance dollars to do a seal coating or maybe fix the large pothole or maybe a combination of that kind of maintenance for your roadway if again the project uh does not move forward to a full reconstruct. **[40:17] Tara Christue:** Okay so we're not sure what happened in 2016 but it wasn't seal-coated right okay um yeah somehow that fell through the cracks so yeah Knollwood was last seal coated in 2004. We've gone for 19 years without being seal coated um in 2016 um if it had been done it would have been helpful we I don't know how quickly we would have ended up at this point um so I'd like to say that based on the road maintenance data on the city website I analyzed it we've got 74 roads or something Knollwood is in the bottom 10 of getting attention um something like 58 roads are on the 10 to 12 year schedule that you told me about for seal coating and then there's 15 roads that are have been done much much less frequently. So the reason I bring that up is not to pass blame on anybody I know like I said it's hard to run a city however I would like you to take that under consideration when you are thinking about how much money the city can contribute towards this because we've got the seal coating coming up on the schedule if we don't go ahead with this redoing there was the seal coating that was scheduled 2016 there was money earmarked for that and we didn't get that done so there's also the fact that we've had years of deterioration that were kind of accelerated because of the lack of seal coating. Three separate points of revenue that I ask you very humbly to consider looking at carefully and putting our way putting towards our project if we choose to go forward okay thank you. **[42:21] Kim Points:** All right anyone else? No one else okay let's go ahead go ahead public hearing is that will raise your hand or there should be a button down below to raise— any of you like to speak? No. **[42:36] Councilmember Tufty:** Can you read the letter from Crums? **[42:38] Kim Points:** I'm not going to read that entire letter I was advised not to by the City attorney no we did notice it'll go into the record for anyone who would like to review that. **[42:47] Mayor Huber:** Let's go ahead and close this public hearing do I have a motion. **[42:52] Councilmember Clark:** I'll move to close the public hearing. **[42:54] Mayor Huber:** Thank you John in a second. **[42:55] Councilmember Rock:** I'll do the second. **[42:56] Kim Points:** Giefer, aye. Rock, aye. Tufty, aye. Clark, aye. Mayor, aye. **[43:18] Mayor Huber:** Hi thanks Kim. Uh couple of things. Our engineer that works for one of the largest engineering firms in the Twin Cities and when he says he does conservative estimates he does okay he doesn't want to surprise anybody with an end project cost. With that said the price of oil is volatile and it makes up a large amount of the cost of these types of projects. We don't know where that price is going to be coming up when this project will be done obviously we have bids coming in but some of those contractors may actually hedge their bets a bit as well. However I will just read an example because I think it's illustrative of Brad's technique in doing this the last one we talked about the Honeysuckle 115th and the Knollwood coordinating roads or not in the Hillcrest Court the other 115th Court Brad's estimate the engineer's opinion of cost on that project was $439,064 dollars okay it came in our low bidder was OMG Midwest Inc Rogers of the grand total bid of $299,873.30 so Brad is a very conservative estimator and I'm glad he does that because in all the years I've been here he has never overshot one of these projects he's always undershot by coming in high on the front and I I think that's very important and normally uh we're all pleasantly surprised on this and normally we get very very good support because of Brad's professionalism in doing it this way. Again we've never been surprised. **[44:56] Mayor Huber:** The second point that was brought up the seal coating in 2016 would be very honest I've driven Knollwood many times um I do my clerk tells me never to do this but I do it I drive the roads okay and I look for problems and I bring it to staff's attention. We have 70 about 77 miles of roads right now and that is a lot of roads for one part-time employee and consultants to keep up with. Brad does not work for the city of Grant he works for an engineering firm he's a consultant. We have one part-time employee she sits right here so I do some of that and I point some of the stuff out. My opinion: 2016 you sealcoat Knollwood you have very pretty black busted up sealcoat right afterwards. There was no point at some point roads don't hold together from sealcoat there's just not enough structure left to hold it together sealcoat is really to keep water from penetrating the road and then picking it up when it freezes right your road was past that. Now the point made was well wait a second dollars perhaps were supposed to be destined for that road that is a fair point that is a point I think that the council can take under consideration and certainly look into I think that's a good point and we want to make sure that the maintenance dollars that are allocated under our road program program are spent properly on these roads especially roads like this so point made I appreciate that. **[46:30] Kim Points:** Members I'm going to add to that. I believe that Knollwood is scheduled for the sealcoat this this uh fall which we do sealcoating in the fall. I do get calls from people first thing spring as soon as the snow is gone "when are we getting our sealcoat" that is a fall project. Um I also know that the road supervisor that you recently uh put on board is waiting to hear what happens at this meeting to get out there and get those potholes fixed on Knollwood for the city that they're supposed to do the maintenance. The city was waiting a little bit to see what happened from this the other thing the potholer is just getting through all of Grant so it's not like Knollwood was just completely ignored we haven't gotten to all of them yet but the road supervisor is waiting to hear from me today about what happens with this that is an example of spending your money properly waiting to hear what we heard before we do that you could have come all come in and said "nope we're all done we're not going to do this" well then he goes out starts potholing right? We try to save it. **[47:24] Councilmember Tufty:** Yeah um so then Brad with the money that was originally planned for this fall sealcoating could that reduce the budget of this project if it goes forward and I think that's what one thing you're— can you confirm that. **[47:53] Brad Hanson:** Um there's $16,000 just over $16,000 dollars allocated to this project if it does move forward. **[48:00] Mayor Huber:** At this point there's $16,000 however what I'm saying is the council in my estimation I think the council may be interested in doing just a bit of research and making sure that we have you know allocated the proper dollars to the project I'm not saying we haven't Brad I'm not saying that we have but a little bit of research um just to make sure nothing wrong with that done well. **[48:32] Councilmember Rock:** I think one thing you said and we used to do this before we set up our schedule um but sometimes roads way back when it was really we didn't have we didn't have the maintenance schedule for seal coating we just did not sealcoat if we thought it wasn't worth it that was the mentality. But then we stopped that because everybody pays taxes and they deserve the road to get fixed so we would even if it was all alligator... alligator? What is it? Thank you well whatever—it's correct a lot looks like an alligator. Um we would still seal coat it you know just because it would look real pretty for like Jeff said for a year or two and we'll be right back in the same wow was that worth $10,000 dollars probably not but it made you feel good like you're getting something out of it so decisions were made. I don't remember what would happen a year ago so I'm not sure what happened in 2016. I know the $16,000 Brad that's our seal coating and plus some potholing at this year correct that we're adding? Okay so he's nodding his head. So if if they're with I'll go with the mayor if there's some thing we can figure out why it got missed it could have gotten seal coated it just didn't for some reason then sure we can we I'm I'm I'm with the mayor on that one but I just don't know and make sure that we're doing it right. But um with that said we've got a consideration of resolution 2023-17. Kim you're coughing that usually means you're gonna say something really wow she got a tickle that's all I get off easy there looking for a motion on 2023-17 the consideration of ordering improvements and again starting the process. **[49:57] Councilmember Clark:** So moved. **[49:59] Councilmember Rock:** Second. **[50:00] Mayor Huber:** I have a first and a second sounds like John and Jeff the second one. **[50:04] Kim Points:** Giefer, aye. Rock, aye. Clark, aye. Tufty, aye. Mayor, aye. **[50:16] Mayor Huber:** Thank you Kim and thank you all for coming tonight. Uh we're going to escape our city planner who has no action items our City attorney this evening is Christina if I'm saying that properly? Okay Christina and Christina is going to talk to us about an interim ordinance prohibiting the operation of cannabis businesses in this city. Christina take it away. **[50:42] Christina Scipioni:** Good evening mayor and Council it's a pleasure to be here in person I've been to Grant Town Hall um so I did talk to Nick about locating it and it was very easy to find it's very lovely. Um I this is a complex topic so hopefully you had a chance to review the memo before you tonight is an interim ordinance on cannabis businesses and the definition of cannabis businesses in state statute includes everything from sales to events to manufacturing. So this interim ordinance is under one of the new laws that allows you to adopt an interim ordinance beyond what you typically can which is just one year through January 1st 2025 which is when theoretically the office of cannabis management will begin issuing licenses. But there's a lot of unknowns when it comes to when they'll actually begin issuing licenses there's a theory that this is a big industry and they're excited to get going in Minnesota and they'll make sure this gets up and running as soon as possible instead of delaying until 2025. Of course tribally regulated land is already selling these products so what's before you tonight is the cannabis interim ordinance. What I will be bringing next month is uh an interim ordinance on hemp businesses so when the legislature adopted this law they changed the definition of cannabis businesses and removed hemp businesses from it but then they forgot to go back and add in hemp business to the other parts. So there's nothing um stopping the office of cannabis management from issuing theoretically tomorrow licenses to hemp businesses and then being legal in the City um so that will be coming to you next month but for now we're just focused on cannabis businesses and this will prohibit them from operating in your city through January 1st 2025 allowing you to study the effects. **[52:34] Mayor Huber:** Excellent very good um so what we are really doing here for those in the audience and those watching as we are prohibiting the operation of these cannabis businesses in the cities um it's just probably not necessary the breakout between cannabis and hemp just if you don't understand hemp is a plant used to make rope Believe It or Not Thomas Jefferson dedicated a large portion of his plantation to growing hemp there is no THC content in it for all intents and purposes so I don't know that we would even... yeah we'll talk about that I guess later we've already had some farmers in town growing it so we will go there but uh gentlemen questions for Christina? Questions for anyone on this? **[53:21] Councilmember Giefer:** Oh no we're all good. **[53:23] Kim Points:** Mayor council members just this is a public hearing so we need to open it and see. **[53:30] Mayor Huber:** I wanted to want to talk to you first and make sure that you didn't have something to add here all right let's go ahead and open our public hearing on this one guys can I get a motion. **[53:39] Councilmember Rock:** Motion to open. **[53:41] Councilmember Giefer:** Second. **[53:43] Kim Points:** Giefer, aye. Rock, aye. Clark, aye. Tufty, aye. Mayor, aye. **[53:49] Mayor Huber:** All right again uh public hearing we want you to come on up and tell us what you think about uh this proposed ordinance let us know whether it's something you agree with disagree with when and why we'll need your full name and your address please approach the podium if you'd like to speak on this issue. All right doesn't look like we have anyone interested in cannabis business tonight. No one online? Yeah that's right you gotta check. Go ahead and close it motion to close. **[54:19] Councilmember Giefer:** Motion to close. **[54:21] Councilmember Rock:** Second. **[54:23] Mayor Huber:** Thanks Mr. Giefer thanks Bob. **[54:24] Kim Points:** Giefer, aye. Rock, aye. Clark, aye. Tufty, aye. Mayor, aye. **[54:33] Mayor Huber:** All right uh since I was so quick we don't seem to have any resistance or proponents uh so nothing either way. 2023-73 uh looking for a motion. **[54:52] Councilmember Clark:** I will move to adopt ordinance number 2023-73. **[54:55] Councilmember Rock:** Second. **[54:56] Mayor Huber:** I was waiting for Bob all right all right. **[54:57] Kim Points:** Clark, aye. Rock, aye. Giefer, aye. Tufty, aye. Mayor, aye. **[55:05] Mayor Huber:** All right Christina if you would uh talk to us a bit about adult cannabis in public places. **[55:10] Christina Scipioni:** Sure can. Um mayor council real quick um before I move on in case someone's paying attention to this um the hemp um ordinance that I'll bring next month will not apply to agriculture they are separately licensed through the state of Minnesota um it is for retail and manufacturing of hemp businesses and hemp products um so just so that no just to clarify. **[55:37] Mayor Huber:** So they're going to re-license fiber manufacturing because that's all it is I mean you could make clothes out of it you can make ropes out of it you can make everything out of it what you can't do with it is smoke it so— **[55:50] Christina Scipioni:** Um the mayor if I may the the hemp businesses manufacturing is about um products for humans so like edibles there are buds out there um and non-consumable products so it's not manufacturing of non-consumable or non-human they're processing. **[56:15] Mayor Huber:** Thank you very much let's move forward with the adult cannabis. **[56:23] Christina Scipioni:** Sure so um mayor council this ordinance is before you tonight for your consideration a lot of cities are choosing to move forward with it there's not there's a lot of news articles I'm not sure if you've seen them about this topic public use of cannabis is not prohibited under the new law it's up to individual cities to move forward with prohibiting it this includes places that are generally um accessible by the public unless the private property owner has expressly permitted it. So that's like potentially parking lots of businesses should they not choose to allow it on the the premises then the city automatically has something in place um it'll also include your ball fields sidewalks streets things like that. So that is what's before you tonight and I stand for any questions. **[57:12] Mayor Huber:** There are on the specific one of course of course yeah any questions on that? **[57:16] Councilmember Giefer:** Yes sir you heard our description something to discussed. **[57:21] Mayor Huber:** Gentlemen I'll just add to that we did talk about the set of Staff level and the main reason for bringing this forward was actually your town hall the ball field people out there you know kids playing baseball basically a thousand other places so again like any other ordinance though you know enforcement is uh is always an issue well let's hope that smart adults will just keep it where it belongs. So uh do I have a motion to approve this ordinance 2023-74. **[57:51] Councilmember Clark:** I will move to adopt ordinance 2023-74. **[57:58] Mayor Huber:** Thank you John second gentleman? Tom you've been kind of quiet tonight. **[58:02] Councilmember Giefer:** I've done a lot of seconding in my lifetime. We've been up to the Young Bucks to take over a little worried on this one too oh yeah. So I'll second. **[58:12] Mayor Huber:** The newbies don't worry about you there buddy. **[58:14] Kim Points:** Clark, aye. Giefer, aye. Rock, aye. Tufty, aye. Mayor, aye. **[58:19] Mayor Huber:** All right uh new business gentlemen obviously uh whenever we do there real quick um we have some summary publication resolution— **[58:31] Kim Points:** They're under new business I'm sorry I apologize for energy. **[58:35] Mayor Huber:** Yeah nope that's fine yeah no worries no worries I missed a number before so usually Kim's all over me yeah yeah can't be missing no so we've got under new business the authorizing the summary publication of both those ordinances we just talked about obviously as you remember they go on a short form in the newspaper saving us money and printing costs and putting it back into the roads. 2023-18 authorizing summary publication ordinance that we just passed 73. Do I have a motion. **[58:53] Councilmember Giefer:** Kiefer move. **[58:55] Mayor Huber:** Do I have a second. **[58:57] Councilmember Rock:** Second. **[58:58] Councilmember Tufty:** Thank you Kim um question do we hang on a second are you questioning on this I'm just the numbers I'm trying to figure out somewhere in order yeah they're not in order 23-18 it's 20 this should be 17. **[59:15] Mayor Huber:** This should be this should be 17... 73 73 in the ordinance summary and I'm 73 yeah that's right ordinance number 73 on the bottom this is considered an ordinance of an—no this is a summary this is in the ordinance right but if you look to your town oh so we've got consideration of resolution 20—no I'm talking about what we already voted on yep the public hearing consideration of that and enter the mortgage yep okay well 73 okay if you look at the bottom line on A but this is it references it always say I'm getting screwed up with ordinances and and summary results. No an ordinance—Martin in 73 this is ordinance summary 73 ordinance summary so it's this on there and then this one drops down to B that line 74 see so 74 comes down here for summary resolution and then 73 comes down here after our public hearing then we voted I know I know that and it comes down to the this says considerable ordinance interim ordinance this is not an ordinance this is just the summary I think they're mixed up that's what I'm trying to tell you can you explain this Kim I'm not having my— **[1:00:46] Kim Points:** Mr. Mayor and council members I must correct you. Before you is the ordinance number 2023-73 that prohibits the operation of cannabis businesses in the city which was under the city attorney's items below that under new business is consideration of a resolution because the resolution authorizes the summary publication of the ordinance. **[1:01:06] Mayor Huber:** See all we're doing is authorizing I'm just making sure we're right that's all I'm not I'm just making sure these numbers seem like they're goofy but certainly the corrections to Numbers if need be but I do believe they are accurate okay. Yep keeping us on the straight narrow here um have you called Tom? **[1:01:21] Kim Points:** Aye. Same thing down here we've got consideration of resolution 23-19 authorizing the summary publication of ordinance summary 2023-74 the adult cannabis in public places so once again same situation do I have a motion to approve this resolution. **[1:01:41] Councilmember Giefer:** Kiefer. **[1:01:42] Mayor Huber:** Do I have a second. **[1:01:43] Councilmember Rock:** Second. **[1:01:44] Kim Points:** Giefer, aye. Rock, aye. Clark, aye. Tufty, aye. Mayor, aye. **[1:01:49] Mayor Huber:** Okay good we'll get those in the newspaper and we'll get rolling on those. We've got consideration of language revision city of Grant rules of procedure we talked about this a couple of times guys the procedure was changed sometime back um because we had unfortunately some council members that just couldn't kind of follow the rules and we were spending a lot of money on uh on consultants and then we had council members some council members had information from the Consultants they had called 20 minutes before the meeting and then other council members had no update on that. **[1:02:40] Mayor Huber:** So some council members were not peer keep in mind when you come up here under a weak mayor system we are peers I have one additional power because I'm mayor and that is simply to run this meeting that's basically it otherwise my vote counts no more than anyone else here. **[1:03:00] Kim Points:** Mr. Mayor and council members I'm sorry I must correct you you're also weed control I believe. **[1:03:06] Mayor Huber:** Well that's right I am weed control first state weed control don't run me over in the ditch while I'm taking the weeds I appreciate it yes why do you think I voted on that so well I'm a weed control. So anyway anyway the point is this we've had some concern about this among council members because we had some kind of uh tough language in there we were dealing with some tough times uh some tough Council people at the time and we had to kind of equalize this pure relationship among us so we all had the same information when we were making these decisions that's key under a weak mayor system. So because again I don't count anymore than anybody else so we had "it is forbidden to contact City staff forbidden" we've had some issues with that and I see hopefully in here we have uh looks like a rewrite of this I'm not sure who did this but I'm going to go ahead and read this new one which might be amenable to the rest of the council: "for all current applications or city business in progress the city council members are strongly encouraged to not contact City Consultants directly the preference would be to communicate questions through the city office." Kim this would minimize City consultant billing costs and all council members then could be provided new information if deemed important by Consultants or the city office. So basically we have someone who is going to ask those questions for us we're going to put on a writing she's going to come back to us and say "hey great question the Consultants want you all to know this" every one of you so that we're again back in that pure relationship if we end up calling the Consultants ourselves there's been situations especially in the past where people come in and say "well the Consultants told me this and the consultant told me that" and sometimes it gets mischaracterized often mistakenly but it doesn't matter it creates a problem again in that relationship up here we're here to represent our individual voters we all need the same information. Kim did you have something to add? **[1:04:48] Kim Points:** Mayor council members I guess I would just make a suggestion it's certainly up for discussion um the verbiage uh that's very clear um it's kind of just long to me I was just going to recommend that uh I'll read this what it says now coordination through the city administrator keeps costs down and eliminates the duplication of work city council members are forbidden revise that to say city council members are strongly discouraged from contacting City Consultants directly strongly discouraged from contacting directly I don't I don't think it's a problem. **[1:05:39] Councilmember Tufty:** Anybody else well hang on— **[1:05:43] Councilmember Rock:** I don't know I mean to me strongly encouraged is fuzzy in concise and clear I think our goal should be to have clear concise language that is not open to interpretation which I think that is and so for me "forbidden" falls into that category it's very clear and I don't think we should be making decisions on policy language based on feelings or anything that's open to interpretation so our our goal should be to govern based on facts Sound Logic and what's best for the city of Grant and the feelings that associate the word forbidden I don't think really come into play. And also sorry I also think that we need to think about it we included this policy in the first place I think we could probably all agree that none of us abuse the staff like we've seen with some council members previously but that could very well change in the future and I think we should be careful and do what we need to do to make sure that we can protect a city from what happened in the past happening again and um you know one last point I think we're looking at changing the wording as a problem that needs to be solved and I I rack my brain thinking of any times in the past that I contacted the staff directly or would have the opportunity to do so or the need I want to do so in the future and I couldn't think of any reason why I would need to to contact staff without going through Kim and and I think you know with the reasons that we have in here to reduce costs keep everything simple avoid duplication everyone on the same page I I think we should stay with forbidden. **[1:07:18] Mayor Huber:** So stay with the current policy in the current way it is expressed within the policies and procedures do I understand you correctly? **[1:07:25] Councilmember Rock:** Yes that's yeah. **[1:07:27] Councilmember Giefer:** Yeah well I can think of all kinds of reasons over the years I have and still do and I just did call the staff for questions on stuff that happens I get counsel I get people asking me questions about you know "can I do this in Grant" well the response shouldn't be just give them to Kim and what was it about well can I build a guest house for my grandma well I wasn't sure where we're at with that so I called Jennifer and asked her where were we at with that Jennifer why can't I do that and does the whole Council need to know that no I just couldn't remember you know I maybe I have a question somebody wants to know something it's a ambiguous and rather than going through Kim and then going to Jennifer I just go to Jennifer or I had to ask Nick a question because you know people when people elect you they assume that you're going to try to help them they elected you they voted for you they want you to try to help them so I've gotten calls throughout the years I've got calls have nothing to do with City business and one of the problems I have with the language is it doesn't say why you're not on what things you're supposed to call the city staff on it just says you can't call them forbidden to call them which to me is ridiculous so I know we had a problem in the past but you know things change all the time. **[1:08:42] Councilmember Giefer:** We've had rules we've changed our rules things have changed we had some things that were not going well we changed our rules things are going well you can always change your back if they're not. So I think to keep that word "forbidden" in there is is is is is just a bad thing also we're elected by the people of the city and for us not to be able to contact staff directly is uh I think kind of can be interpreted different ways that everything has to go one way I mean not necessarily in our city but any City you want to be able to have open communication because in open floor communication and I've never had a time where the staff wasn't willing to talk to me and just and never we never got billed they're just willing to help me with a question help a resident help me with something maybe for a council meeting that I didn't know about and I don't think any of that has to go to Kim and go to everybody that's just me having a question. I think council members because they're elected they should be allowed to do that if they feel they have to now should they do that all the time no we've always said that and we always said it before we had this but then we put it into writing because some people couldn't understand that we have the rule and then they decided to do that so I just think I just I think I if we don't if we just want to put a different language in there as Kim said but it doesn't address what you can or can't call staff but is it simpler Kim's version I don't care I mean I think I think we should call staff it doesn't say anything about what it doesn't say anything about why it just says you can't call them and that to me that's ridiculous so that's that's why I put this together by the way and it I don't care if this can be revised I don't I don't care but— **[1:10:15] Mayor Huber:** But yeah no I put it together because I was asking Kim asked me before to do it so I just put something together for discussion but I'm open to anything but I think I think the fact that we can't call not all the time nobody's abusing it but that we can't call and ask a staff a question which they're more than happy to take because they're great staff is ridiculous so that's that's it. Your your points on that I'm just going to respond to a couple of them I don't disagree on the general view of getting questions answered I got that but when you start saying it doesn't tell me what I can call them for what I can't call them for you and I know the situations being up here are so varied you have no idea what you're going to hear from residents I have heard stuff you wouldn't believe um so it would be impossible to put that into a policy in order to address that. Some of the examples you gave Tom frankly they can go to the clerk and then we can all get the answer. If you don't know a mother-in-law apartment I'll tell you what there's a couple other guys here that don't either. **[1:11:08] Councilmember Giefer:** Yeah but it was just a question right? **[1:11:10] Mayor Huber:** No and I get that Tom I get it big deal I get it it's not a big deal it is not a big deal however let me make my next point things are going really well right now I'm not gonna be here for long not sure about the rest yet but who comes up next who knows? They may be on the phone every day with the Consultants getting additional information they may be talking to them on the road they may be all over the place so I'm not going to be here to enforce any of this so a policy should never be voted on in my mind if you cannot live with the effects of that policy okay and that policy that we have in place mitigates the effect of us not being pure level up here it minimizes that problem and wait until there's a new election and then hoping that you have a majority so that you can put in a new restrictive policy because we perhaps have people that just refuse to follow the rules that's really kind of iffy. So um you know changing it to this uh keeping the other one is forbidden a word that is and you you look at the connotations over forget the feelings I don't care how it makes me feel that's not how I think okay but if we look at the connotations of it I sent out an email earlier today with I think 108 synonyms for forbidden um one of those will work fine I don't mind if we change it's not going to make me feel good it's not going to make me feel bad I don't care I'm just trying to make sure that the council is level they all have the same information. Jeff did you have something to say? **[1:13:00] Councilmember Rock:** Well you pretty much covered my points um the jumped on and Tom you agree with me that we don't have a problem now but I'm thinking down the road if something ever happens like we've seen in the not too distant past I mean who who on this Council voted for the language that we have now back in the dark days. **[1:13:17] Councilmember Clark:** Yeah we voted for it. **[1:13:21] Councilmember Rock:** Did I pay attention? Jeff so it made—how did "forbidden" get put in I don't know if it made sense then could it also make sense? I think the key benefit though is uh and Tom this this wouldn't prevent you from getting information to the residents that come to you you could still get to give them the information but the benefit I think will like Jeff said everyone would also probably have the same question it would be nice to have everyone get the same um understanding of of the of the questions on an application. **[1:14:00] Councilmember Giefer:** Just a random thing that a friend of mine calls me up and wants to know something about Grant and I have to call— **[1:14:04] Councilmember Rock:** Well that's what I'm saying that's what I'm talking about I'm not talking about an application or anything else yeah I'm not disagreeing with that but if they call me up and say how many—can we do this and I'm going you know I think it says but we haven't filed on a full application with Jennifer let me just give her a call and then she goes "yeah it's gonna work." **[1:14:26] Councilmember Clark:** So so you're doing that I've been doing it for 23 years I don't there's no one to complaining well I haven't despite the language see what I'm saying. **[1:14:35] Councilmember Rock:** Well that's it that's good government go against what it says you just said you've been doing it. **[1:14:40] Mayor Huber:** I don't care because I was the only reason this was installed was we had some people going rogue and we tried to rein him in. **[1:14:47] Councilmember Clark:** Yeah okay yeah and then I'd get people tell me oh just go ahead nobody that I'm not supposed to so I want to change it so it's fair for everybody why should I be special? So that's what I'm trying to do I don't want to be special and I and a lot of this crap doesn't that I talk about is stupid maybe and and the whole everybody else doesn't need to know "whoa here's the list of Tom's phone calls this month" you know and then you guys why would you want to even know that it's just like it's dumb stuff I don't—you don't—you don't—that's my whole point I don't need you— **[1:15:24] Councilmember Clark:** You don't. **[1:15:25] Councilmember Giefer:** Well and that's fine and I we well I and if I found something amazing I would gladly share because I found this out I didn't know this you know what. **[1:15:33] Mayor Huber:** Tom you bring you brought up and let's go back to that you made some good points there and especially in your first day when you said well I don't know what I can do what I can't do you know and a couple of things you just said make a lot of sense but instead of subjects they make a sense and they make sense in terms of time frames. How fast does someone need to know us are they are they talking to Grandma about moving into that house are they trying to split and there's a and there's a time frame thing. So you know I would always expect and and frankly I already know that almost all of the calls that you would make to staff would have a time sensitive frame you need an answer you need an answer now I get that it's fine and they wouldn't—most I I wouldn't call in applications I called right exactly or anything doing a city business because that's what you're supposed to do. **[1:16:15] Councilmember Giefer:** Okay I get that yeah this is not that this is this is just being able to talk to the staff because you should be able to talk to me if you have questions and not be forbidden to whether that's one word change I'd go with what Kim said I don't care but it doesn't say what in in this language well it doesn't say what you can or can't. **[1:16:34] Mayor Huber:** No it doesn't you just can't call them but you couldn't list them all. Anyway guys yeah you got good stuff in progress that should cover everything you're going to get stuff from that gentlemen this is your policy and procedure too I need to hear from both of you. **[1:16:53] Councilmember Tufty:** Yeah all right in my opinion uh what Kim said is probably a good settling point okay you've got designs developing and I think that— **[1:17:02] Mayor Huber:** That's not the way I want to interrupt you there that's not the way this is at all. It is not a side thing it is trying to make sure that we have peer information we're not abusing the staff. Now changing a word from from prohibited or from forbidden to highly discouraged or discouraged from contacting it's really the same because if the staff were to come before us Christina I'm going to use you for an example I hope you're going to enjoy this one okay I'm going to use it for an example she's going to come to me and she's going to say "this guy keeps going after your time." I get a packet this guy goes right now well leave me alone I never said to you I'm talking about I'm I'm talking mistake for you guys I'm talking about the future because planning policy and procedure for today you're not going to be here that long neither am I guarantee you right we're just not so I I'm concerned about it I want the highly discouraged some other words that keep our staff safe but allow individual members to contact them when they need to not just because not because when a non-time sensitive question can be referred right over there to that table and she'll get you that answer in a day or so in a day or so okay and especially if it's something that's a little complex I tell you what I would have sent that Grandma one right over to her and then she would have sent it back and I would have sent back and you guys get it all the time please distribute boom although she would have done it herself so um so. **[1:18:35] Councilmember Rock:** Tom just because I'm a suggestion that you don't keep doing what you're doing because as I said now within the current wording if nothing changes right but I'm saying like say 10 years from now five years from now um we have someone that's abusing the staff not like you are but abusing staff and the mayor who at the time says "you can't do that" they pull up this says "well there's nothing that says I can't it says I'm strongly discouraged not to but that doesn't prohibit me" and so this what I'm saying is leaving something that's less fuzzy than that um would protect us in the future. **[1:19:15] Councilmember Giefer:** Well this is a policy first of all it's not an ordinance it's not—well it's a policy and somebody could get on the council "nope we're done" and there's nothing anybody can do about it we're gone they could just change it. We change it we had to change it we had to do something so we did. But so that's that's not addressing his point his point—no I know what his point is his point is at some future Council when you and I are gone yeah would be able to enforce that and say "oh no it's forbidden and we'll censure the heck out of you" and then we'll tell our staff if this person calls you again it better be documented because the bill is going to his house okay if you even pick up the phone which you are forbidden to do you can still do that even if it says I strongly discourage you can still censure it's no different I think the problem is you're punishing the people now for something that may never happen yeah I am punishing because I'm not supposed to call the staff. **[1:20:07] Mayor Huber:** But you voted for it. **[1:20:09] Councilmember Giefer:** No I know years ago so I'm voting to change it now. **[1:20:11] Mayor Huber:** All right so because I've been told and was scolded at a city council meeting— **[1:20:15] Councilmember Rock:** Ah yeah there we go well no I worry though that I said so I I should be able to call everybody I'm not special we should be able to call the staff not all the time but I'm not supposed to be forbidden to call on the staff. **[1:20:30] Mayor Huber:** Well that's it we we've we've heard plenty and I think we know where all this stems from and we can certainly change that language I have no problem with it I just want people to be responsible. What I would really like in the future is when I'm gone is you get some different type of council person up here who's driving the staff nuts to have enforceable wording in there but you know what sometimes you compromise in order to keep the peace. Like Bob said I am not interested in any of the side crap what I'm interested in is having good policies and procedures that when I'm gone you're gone these three can enforce it against people that aren't like us that don't listen unless they get three up here to throw it in the trash can and then they throw in their trash can but I can't I can't plan for every eventuality I can only plan for some well let's just not punish the people now for that. **[1:21:26] Councilmember Giefer:** Well I haven't punished anyone. **[1:21:27] Mayor Huber:** Oh no punishing anybody not at all okay anyway are you serious do you feel punished right now over this conversation no I'm just are you serious trying to have a Sharon's understanding what I'm saying I'm trying to have a little fun. All right so I think the staff is being punished right now yeah I know yeah yeah. All right so what are we gonna go with? **[1:21:42] Councilmember Clark:** So I'm gonna discouraged yeah let's hold the hand strongly discouraged good for you yes. **[1:21:46] Mayor Huber:** Okay strongly discouraged good for you you do Kim's method yeah I like it yeah I'll do it will you do it? No that's fine I can be the minority that's fine four to one we're changing it to your definition your changes that you made that's what we're changing discouraged emotion you're gonna need a motion for that in a policy procedure I forgot doing that you're right we voted for it that policy will be changed the one word to strongly discouraging per Kim's per Kim's while strongly discouraged was our wording so right but cheap membership it was her idea yeah one word you got it you got it okay you bet I like changing that stuff it's good stuff okay good stuff we now have new policies and procedures Christina your eyes aren't bleeding your ears aren't bleeding you seem to be okay after that discussion sometimes you can really grab a driving attorney crazy with that kind of stuff okay we're good no unfinished business discussion guys do you mind Hey guys mind if we get through this let me I want to go home guys I got things to do you got things to do let's get out of here okay no unfinished business discussion items Kim absolutely not Christina Sharon got you here Brad already left yet enough of our stuff uh city council reports anything you guys want to see on future agendas thank God thank you so much I really appreciate that one I got that that's good community calendar I think it is Bob Tufty's turn to read the community calendar and his August tones go ahead sir. **[1:23:13] Councilmember Tufty:** All right Public Schools board meeting Thursday August 10th and August 24th modern media District Education Center 7 P.M. Stillwater public school board meeting Thursday August 10th Stillwater City Hall 7 P.M. Washington County Commissioners meeting Tuesday Government Center 9 A.M. **[1:23:44] Mayor Huber:** Bob you're absolutely right and anyone who wants to be involved should go to every one of those meetings move to adjourn. **[1:23:55] Councilmember Rock:** Second. **[1:23:56] Mayor Huber:** Kim oh yes indeed. **[1:23:57] Kim Points:** Councilmember Giefer, aye. Councilmember Clark, aye. Councilmember Rock, aye. Councilmember Tufty, aye. Mayor Huber, aye.