This transcript appears to be from a White Bear Lake City Council meeting. Based on the context provided, I have identified the speakers including Mayor Dan Steffen, City Manager Lindy Crawford, Finance Director Ms. Kinser, Public Works Director/City Engineer Paul Copy, City Attorney Troy Gilchrist, and various Councilmembers. [0:00] **Unknown Speaker:** happening and I'm not supposed to hold that the repo I'm guessing so yeah oh yeah good evening Mr [0:17] **Unknown Speaker:** Jones that's what that was what came to me the guy that stands out under the wing and keeps you know make sure that you're not veering too far off to one side or the other he didn't have any cones in his hand or you know those flashlight whatever so what are all the cars in the parking lot for CU they aren't all here wonder the same thing I I did a pin check on what's on the agenda today there's no pinnings there's [Music] noology are you responsible for all those folks yeah well I was going to say money is what gets people motivated she's the guardian of the [1:06] **Unknown Speaker:** [Music] money and now miss kins is about yeah it is it's not even question so I went back I asked her just right now little bit laughter be but I actually want the bigger one that's got like all [1:38] **Mayor Dan Steffen:** the quiet yeah but the clock was wrong the clock is off by 3 minutes all right we're going to call the meeting to order will the clerk please note those in attendance all will be noted will you please join me in the Pledge of Allegiance I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all 2 a minutes of the regular city council meeting from October 10th that entertain a motion to approve those minutes do I have a second [2:17] **Councilmember:** second [2:18] **Mayor Dan Steffen:** I have a motion a second all those in favor say I any oppos motion carries item 2 B [2:24] **Mayor Dan Steffen:** minutes of the city council work session on October 10th i' entertain a motion to approve those minutes [2:29] **Councilmember:** Mo [2:29] **Councilmember:** second [2:30] **Mayor Dan Steffen:** I have a motion a second all those in favor say I any oppose motion carries minutes are approved item 2 C minutes of the special city council meeting on October 17th to entertain a motion to approve those minutes [2:41] **Councilmember:** moved [2:42] **Councilmember:** second [2:42] **Mayor Dan Steffen:** a motion of second all those in favor say I I any oppos motion carries item 2D minutes of the city council work session on October 17th to entertain a motion to approve those minutes [2:54] **Councilmember:** so moved [2:55] **Mayor Dan Steffen:** do I have a second [2:55] **Councilmember:** second [2:56] **Mayor Dan Steffen:** motion second all those in favor say I I any opposed motion carries all right um [3:04] **Councilmember Edberg:** yes abstention on all four of those [3:07] **Mayor Dan Steffen:** an abstention noted for all four of those item three adoption of the agenda do we have any corrections or [3:11] **Mayor Dan Steffen:** amendments I know we're going to add item 4E as the settlement agreement for the lake level litigation so I have that was there any other amendments to the agenda council member Walsh [3:22] **Councilmember Walsh:** Mr Mayor I'd like to move uh 4 d off consent I guess it would be go to 8A new business uh just so we can have a just a short conversation about it [3:32] **Mayor Dan Steffen:** all right so item four 4D which is resolution approving edible cannaboid products licenses for multiple edible businesses will become item 8A under new business any other Corrections or changes council member edberg [3:46] **Councilmember Edberg:** um thank you Mr Mayor I was unclear as to your suggestion for the um uh Lake litigation item is that is that on for Action is it where where you to clarify [3:55] **Mayor Dan Steffen:** I was proposing to add that to [3:57] **Mayor Dan Steffen:** item 4E on the consent agenda [3:59] **Councilmember Edberg:** oh I would pref I've not even seen the the memo yet so I would prefer that we not put it under consent unless I see it here is this the same thing we've seen before yes I'd still think we should have a different uh have it pulled and under a discussion [4:17] **Mayor Dan Steffen:** does council have a recommendation one way or the other as to where it would be most appropriate on the agenda [4:21] **Councilmember:** I would favor keeping it on the consent agenda [4:25] **Mayor Dan Steffen:** what could this Council have an opinion on this so [4:28] **City Attorney Troy Gilchrist:** Mr Mayor and Council you know the typical practice is if a council member wants something withdrawn from the uh consent agenda they can and then typically that it goes on um under new business uh usually the [4:45] **City Attorney Troy Gilchrist:** first thing under new business but we've already had one item pulled off and so it would become second item under new business uh keeping in mind though uh that if this happens if you wouldn't mind Mr Mayor giving me an opportunity to speak a little bit before we get into the the me to that one [5:02] **Mayor Dan Steffen:** sure okay we will add the uh settlement agreement for the lake level litigation to item 8B as new business are there any other additions corrections to the agenda seeing none I'd entertain a motion to approve the agenda [5:16] **Councilmember:** so moved [5:17] **Mayor Dan Steffen:** I have a motion to Second any uh all those in favor say I I I any opposed [5:24] **Councilmember Edberg:** [Inaudible opposition] [5:25] **Mayor Dan Steffen:** all right we have one opposition motion carries we have an agenda item four consent agenda [5:32] **Mayor Dan Steffen:** i' entertain a motion to approve the consent agenda as amended [5:36] **Councilmember:** so moved [5:36] **Councilmember:** second [5:37] **Mayor Dan Steffen:** the motion is second all those in favor say I I any opposed consent agenda is adopted item 5A Ramsay Washington Suburban cable commission check-in and 2024 budget Miss Crawford whenever you're ready [5:54] **City Manager Lindy Crawford:** thank you mayor members of the council uh so tonight you will receive a um a presentation from our uh our representative John uh excuse me John Johnston Eric Strauss uh Cindy Arco and Mary Klein from SEC who are here just to give a check in um in your packet is their 2024 budget as well as their 2022 um Financial audit and annual report so I will turn over to Mr Johnston [6:17] **John Johnston:** I'm John Johnston I'm your [6:19] **John Johnston:** representative to the Ramsey Washington Suburban cable commission I'd like to thank you for blowing through by me in a consent agenda about a year ago and appointing me so I believe I was the only happy to do it that uh applied so um I did have some experience in another town and another life so it's been a pleasure working with this group um they've got some exciting things to share some changes as you know over the last year and a half to two years in the cable commission and uh we're getting better so today we've got Cindy Arco who's going to present first she's a business man manager she's responsible for subscriber complaints and daily admin tasks as well as overseeing the day-to-day operations we've got Eric Strauss he's our transition consultant and he's helping the commission with the operational Direction and then the [7:05] **John Johnston:** technology updates and then Mary Klein those of you that have actually watched the channel see a lot of Mary she's a production and content manager and she develops a lot of productions for FCC member cities including meeting with City staff shooting writing editing and distributing content so like I said they've got some normal updates to share with you and then a couple of exciting things so Cindy [7:34] **Cindy Arco:** thank you John and thank you all for inviting us uh to share some background information on who we are and what we do along with some exciting updates we are from the ramsy Washington Suburban cable commission which [Music] [7:50] **Cindy Arco:** [Music] operates give me a minute we are from we'll go back we are from the Ramsey Washington Suburban cable commission which operates SEC suburban community channels providing Community media for our member municipalities my name is Cindy arle like John introduced and I am the business manager the cable commission started in 1981 cable television first arrived in 1983 and Comcast has been the cable operator since 2002 the Ramsey Washington Suburban cable commission is in a joint Powers agreement with nine municipalities here's a list in order of the cable revenues received which also determines [8:36] **Cindy Arco:** waiting voted wait weighted voting Oakdale and wiper Lake are the two largest member cities followed by Lake Elmo wiper Township mamei Grant Delwood Birchwood and willery the cable commission works as an advocate for cable customers and helps with cable complaints Ramsey Washington Suburban cable commission is funded by 5% F franchise fees and 2.75% Peg fees paid by cable subscribers in the member cities Peg stands for public educational government our Peg station operates here in Wier Lake the commission leases the building on County Road F and belir and we leas it from Wier Lake I [9:25] **Cindy Arco:** said that already we are a small staff of seven employees business manager production and content manager a multimedia journalist which we are in the process of hiring this position will be responsible for assisting the production and content manager with City Productions we also have a mobile production coordinator who is responsible for scheduling and coord coordinating the production truck for all member cities we have a sports producer who schedules produces and broadcasts High School sporting events a master control operator who programs and operates the master control system and monitors the video and audio quality for all members and a part-time AV and it [10:13] **Cindy Arco:** technician also we contact we contract with Freelancers to help with remote Productions like concerts parades and sports we have some new and exciting things happening at SEC we are in the process of downsizing our building space to accommodate a our smaller staff to a third of the size we currently operate in construction will begin this year staff are able to office where they are currently while the area is being remodeled and then move into the new space upon completion we're redesigning sec's website to improve functionality the new improved website will be a resource for cable subscribers and better serve our member municipalities and last but not least [11:01] **Cindy Arco:** the commission approved a new production van this will replace the current production truck that is 21 years old and still operates in SD the new production van will be in HD and is expected to be here by the end of November and with that I will introduce Eric Strauss our transition [11:25] **Eric Strauss:** consultant thank thank you Cindy and thank you Council and City staff for inviting us again um as Cindy mentioned the uh SEC staff is excited uh and looking forward to the new production B this is similar to what we're um will be receiving hopefully like I said in near the end of November as Cindy has mentioned um one of the other notes on the van uh is that the new vehicle is budgeted with equipment at about 30% less than the original truck they looked at purchasing back in 2019 so even with cost increases and things like that um we still got a good value uh uh for the purchase [12:11] **Eric Strauss:** um SEC TV uh this TV station houses all the it and terminal equipment necessary for routing live and scheduled programs on cable TV it includes recording of programs scheduling slides between programs uh servers for streaming each channel uh including all the city channels uh a video on demand server for All City and Community channels and sccc works uh behind the scenes uh with the cable provider and Metro inet to get the city's live programs like our council meeting tonight um back to the station Hub and then out uh on the cable uh uh franchise system in Whitebear lake so um [12:56] **Eric Strauss:** SEC manages all this uh behind the scenes and always has staff on duty for live city meetings to work with City cable casters and ensure quality signals and recordings the current 10year cable franchise was adopted and took effect on April 1st 2021 the prior franchise was actually one of the best in the country I've seen a lot of franchises that was one of the best um and for two main reasons uh Peg fees are normally restricted to be used for Peg related Capital Equipment purchases uh and in that prior franchise there was a special exception made where it was allowed to be used as an operating Grant they don't do that anymore and so that was a big adjustment [13:42] **Eric Strauss:** with the new franchise so that was a big change um the second reason that the prior franchise was special was that the peg fee that uh was negotiated was also one of the highest in the country uh to help with the operating and and Equipment uh needs of SEC and the cities member cities uh the new franchise is still very good and uh has one of the highest Peg fees still in the um uh state of Minnesota due to these franchise changes along with ongoing reduction in cable subscribers which we call Cord cutting um it means there's less available funding for SEC operations and for our member cities uh just a little note [14:29] **Eric Strauss:** uh the change in the cable subscribers this is white be Lake uh since 2015 there's been a drop in cable subscription about 40% um uh to today so uh we're aware of that seeing the decline in in Peg funding in uh 2021 the cable commission made the difficult decision to eliminate three staff uh positions at SEC and not replace two additional staff positions uh when they opened uh and we also trimmed operating costs wherever possible this reduced the 2022 operating budget by more than 40% and the uh commission has continued this direction of cost savings through uh the smaller [15:16] **Eric Strauss:** staff size while offering quality local programming for all our cities and our residents another thing I wanted to mention is our Municipal Grant uh Capital funding uh the current grant program began uh in 2014 and is set to was set to expire in 2019 each member City received 115,000 plus a weighted distribution of unused funds from a prior grant program the funds were restricted for production equipment for city meetings um that deadline um has been extended um many times for some some of the member cities we're finishing up projects and things like that and needed a little more time [16:01] **Eric Strauss:** um I'm happy to say that is finally expiring at the end of this month um so then uh um uh we'll be able to look at a the commission will be able to look at a new infusion of capital funds from those Peg franchise fees for All Our member cities um uh also included with the grant it's important to note um SEC staff gave a an equipment list uh like a most favored equipment list so that cities had very similar equipment so that one cable casters could um go from one city to the other when needed plus also if there's an issue it's easier for our technical staff to assist [16:49] **Eric Strauss:** in any repair problems or troubleshooting um the 2024 commission budget uh as was mentioned is in the the council packet uh as along with the 2024 audit as far as the audit I don't really have um a lot on the audit um Cindy does a great job uh keeping the books for the Auditors um uh since I've been helping had nothing but great reports from the Auditors uh and as far as the budget it has remained fairly similar since 2022 when it was reduced to help address the funding changes that I discussed earlier uh we did add uh a column an additional column in that uh far right side that's [17:35] **Eric Strauss:** a 2023 actual uh which really I think helps to see the comparison on where we're at uh at that time um in our budget um we do anticipate uh about a 2% decline uh decrease in cable revenues for next year and and another important budget note on how we do the budget uh for like staff salaries that's usually one of the bigger items and wages they are tied um through um our our bylaws that they're tied to all our uh weighted member City increases so for 2023 it was [18:22] **Eric Strauss:** 2.64% um so you see a lot of numbers going down things like that uh and a lot of that due to the cable revenues decreasing cable revenues for member cities the cord cutting the decline in cable subscribers and that's happening Nationwide uh techn technology is also at a point where you can watch uh cable Style TV uh through the internet which we call over the toop the cable franchise is a great thing that protects our city residents with buildout service requirements while reimbursing cities for the right the use of their right away uh there is currently no franchise fees on internet providers so our cable provider can [19:09] **Eric Strauss:** there is no fees on the internet side uh of that but um I was going to share kind of ending my part on more of a positive side uh there are several legislative efforts at the state level um that would adjust for the new technology we call modernization of the uh funding model of cable television and uh once a Bill or Bill is ready into the next session um we'll make sure we share that with all our member cities hopefully get support uh as you can see kind of uh the trend that we really need to modernize uh Peg funding for our groups so um on that little bit more positive note I'll [19:56] **Mary Klein:** turn it over to Mary Klein our SEC production and content manager that has more fun stuff oh boy now I know what my interview subjects feel like it's hot under these camera lights I've got some empathy well good evening um again I'm Mary Klein the production and content manager for secc thank you for allowing us to speak tonight I've been with SEC for a long time in fact I was reflecting upon it and I realized that since I've been with SEC I've had three dogs I've moved four times I've gone through five vehicles and I'm not even going to get into [20:41] **Mary Klein:** relationships um but I have truly grown up in this organization and I've watched the city of Whitebear Lake grow and evolve over the years too but what has always remained constant in my opinion is this great working relationship I mean for me it's been been an absolute pleasure to work with white BR Lake City officials City staff the residents it's just been such an enjoyment so um it's a partnership that I hope will continue for years I'm going to show a video in a moment oops oops but first um I just wanted to make a distinction between our two channels so we've got Channel 16 which is our government Channel that's where you'll find your [21:28] **Mary Klein:** City Council meetings um and all the stories related to all the all the events that we cover for white bar Lake throughout year so to date 16 has produced 46 videos for the city of Wier lake that is not including City Council meetings now we have Channel 19 which is our community channel so any anywhere you see our truck that's where you'll find that content Market Fest High School sports parades so to date 19 has produced 39 videos for White Bear Lake so total 85 videos so far have been [22:18] **Mary Klein:** produced for Whitebear Lake exclusive to Whitebear Lake to put it into context we've produced 164 videos for the entire all of our member cities so more than half of our production content is for wiper Lake and I'm going to keep clicking because we found out it's going to take a lot of clicks to get to my [Music] [Applause] [22:51] **Mary Klein:** [Music] video hello everyone Thanks for tuning in to the first edition of Lake Area beat I'm Kurt Freon I'm Tracy manek and this is Lake Area [Music] beat for White Bear Lake for a touchdown will be number 21 Levi [Music] [23:42] **Mary Klein:** arvig got the mayor over here we got City Council Members um yeah I think we have the entire [Music] group worried about Dr [Music] we want to hear from you I love when people email and call me with story ideas that's what we're here for we want feedback good and bad hopefully good but um here is our contact information please reach out to us um like I said we want to continue this partnership and to see it grow and evolve and and I thank [24:29] **Mary Klein:** you for your support and for your time if you have questions yeah [24:32] **Mayor Dan Steffen:** uh well first of all thank you just for presenting and and giving us a good snapshat on what you guys do day in and day out we only see the final production so it's nice to see staff and kind of the behind the-scenes stuff that it takes I'll just compliment you on all the the local videos that kind of make white bear special and the surrounding Community it helps kind of tie us all together and gives us a chance to kind of see what's going on that we otherwise wouldn't so I thank you for that and thank you for the presentation and with that if Council has any questions or comments please council member edberg [25:08] **Councilmember Edberg:** mayor um as we look at emerging Technologies or as we see what other communities are doing whether it's part of or communities [25:15] **Councilmember Edberg:** outside of our uh um Coalition are there things that we are not doing that we might want to think about are there uh emerging opportunities uh um programmatic or atic uh kinds of uh uh programs uh what's out there that U uh you as one of our professionals would encourage us to think about [25:38] **Mary Klein:** well that's where I think the feedback from residents and counil you know helps us so much because it lets us know what you think of what we're doing in what direction we should be you know looking towards so I would open I'm going to throw that back at you what are you seeing that we [26:00] **Mary Klein:** should be looking at um well I do see um an evolution just with the the um immediacy of Technology I've already started to format some of our content based upon that meaning shorter faster content um even the production Lake Area beat that we've been doing for 21 years we've shortened a little bit shorter Clips just the brevity is where I see kind of the future of video going um in terms of technology I don't know if if uh someone I'm not the tech expert I'm more the creative [26:47] **Mary Klein:** content but does that help answer yeah any other questions [26:50] **Councilmember Jones:** council member Jones thank you Mr Mayor I just want to compliment SEC and Mary you're the face at least to me have been for a long time um but it's just it's what you have done for the city and what SEC has allowed because I think there has been some I don't want to say bending the rules but favoritism I'll say that because you know we're way be um but we definitely I really stepping in towards not only the city but the Arts the nonprofits the organizations that I've seen highlighted and that to me I think [27:34] **Councilmember Jones:** is even more important then it it really is there's not they don't have the ability to shine lights on themselves and when you folks do that that really helps so thank you [27:46] **Mary Klein:** you're welcome thank you [27:47] **Mayor Dan Steffen:** all right well thank you again for the report do you have anything Miss Crawford [27:51] **City Manager Lindy Crawford:** yeah I just want to the feeling's mutual Mary staff loves working with you of our police fire myself all of us so thank you for what you do we enjoy the partnership at at um at the Normandy Center so and thank you to John for representing us so well and thank you again and council member at Berg I will think about what you said I'm a processor so I think and then I'd be happy to reach back out to [28:21] **City Manager Lindy Crawford:** you and start a conversation okay very thank you thank you thank you all all right let's jump into item 5B finance department quarterly report Miss Kinser whenever you're ready [28:34] **Finance Director Ms. Kinser:** good evening mayor and members of the council tonight I'm here to give you our quarterly update for the third quarter of 2023 for the finance department and the license bureau operations in the city council packet there is both the summary of revenues and expenditures reports for your review um the reports contain notes if there are any um slight variances in the numbers there wasn't anything significant that I need to point out um past that so just kind of a short notice [29:08] **Finance Director Ms. Kinser:** there on the finance department I guess the bigger part of my presentation is just updating you on the activities in the license bureau we have a very busy um department and you've been updated on that frequently um there are some exciting things that have been happening uh in 2023 the Minnesota leg legislature approved immediate one-time direct financing or funding for Deputy registers based on their 2022 motor vehicle transactions so as a result of that in July our department received 61,2 157 um it was nice to get that Revenue to help support our fund and our operations so that we can help our customers um the legislative session [29:56] **Finance Director Ms. Kinser:** also increased ined the fees for some of our services and that had been part of our legislative agenda that we had been um hoping would happen um for the driver's license filing fees the when someone gets a renewal of their driver's license um instead of $8 for every transaction we process as of October 1st we now get $11 and for every new um application and a new application would also count as if someone had a standard driver's license and then changed to a reeler enhanced ID license that would be considered a new license too we get an additional $8 also on October 1st the they increased the fees for the motor vehicle [30:44] **Finance Director Ms. Kinser:** tab uh filing fees so we get an extra dollar for every one of those um these though these fees aren't exactly what we had hoped for in our legislative funding they are helping us cover our cost to be able to help the customers and process their transactions uh one of the big things that has changed is in May the city of Maplewood chose to close their Deputy register office and this has significantly impacted our operations um so I've been looking at kind of that Maplewood effect from May to uh the end of September looking at our transaction levels that we had last year during that time and comparing them to this year our driver's license uh [31:29] **Finance Director Ms. Kinser:** transactions are up 16% our tab renewals are up just under 7% and our motor vehicle transactions are up 10% so as we look forward you know there's been there are very busy times that happen with our department I think there now it's at a point this fall where it's a little there's constant there are lines they aren't as long summer is typically are really busy months so as we look at the total number of customer transactions that have been handled by the department so far this year well through the end of September we've processed 65,000 231 transactions compared to [32:15] **Finance Director Ms. Kinser:** 6,797 so that is a number of customers that come through our door on a regular basis every day and um our staff is excited to help them the dealership turn transactions are also increasing that's a good Revenue source for our office it will be interesting to see if there's any changes in that now that there is the strike with the the Auto Workers but for 2023 um through September we've had 2,179 um transactions and in 2022 for that same period um we had 15,1 159 so it we had high levels of those transactions before we had Co it dipped down through Co and [33:01] **Finance Director Ms. Kinser:** now kind of we're rebounding which is great because that's a good Revenue Source you know as we have our customers we have our customers who come in for their driver's license and um tab renewals but our other main customer are the the vehicle sales that we um process their transaction for here in White Bear Lake um so just to uh reminder for people who may be watching in the audience they often wonder when is the best time to come and and visit so that they can try to avoid the lines so um on average customers seem to wait 15 to 20 minutes in line however there are busier times so if you come on a Monday or Friday lines will typically be longer uh [33:49] **Finance Director Ms. Kinser:** if you come at the very end or the very beginning of the month your lines will be longer um so midweek and mid Monon are important keys to remember and put a plugin for Tuesday evenings we're open until 6:00 p.m. and typically the line starts to slow down about 4:30 qu to 5: so from 5: to 6: p.m. is a great time to come visit great thank you for the report council do we have any questions for Miss Kinser B M Kinser um I may not be looking at the numbers correctly but I'm looking at the summary of revenues and [34:36] **Councilmember Edberg:** expenses um for 2023 uh year to date 2023 and it looks like we are running a slight negative or an excess of expenditures over revenues if I'm looking at [Music] 23 uh million versus 22.9 million it's not huge um but we're running a slight negative however we are seeing increases in customer accounts increases in effective October 1 increases in Revenue per customer and uh high levels of increase levels of uh efficiency measured by transactions per hour do you have a projection for where we might end our fourth quarter and whether we are looking at net positive [35:23] **Councilmember Edberg:** I'm reflecting that um several years ago pre pandemic the license bureau ended up uh generating sufficient funding that we were able to transfer six digits into uh uh to support other City operations I'm kind of guessing we're not on that pathway at the moment but are we ever moving toward that or what's your what's your best guess of where that might be going [35:46] **Finance Director Ms. Kinser:** Mr mayor council member edberg that's a great question yes um in the past we did um have revenues that we would be able to transfer out and we would help with our pavement management programs for that um I don't see that happening now I see us working towards as we are as of October 1st we're gaining more revenues um we've had some [36:08] **Finance Director Ms. Kinser:** change in our staffing model a bit we've had um when some fulltime vacancies have come open we've um hired part-time staff um so that we can control our expenditures but I see s more is breaking even as opposed to having those large um balances that can transfer out of the license bureau okay thank you any other questions [36:31] **Councilmember Jones:** council member Jones just one quick observation with your license bureau that to me is impressive is the overtime hours with the increase from year to date only 18 hours which is 00 something that's impressive and to the staff so thank you [36:49] **Finance Director Ms. Kinser:** thank you [37:00] **Mayor Dan Steffen:** all right thank you Miss kiner for your quarterly report let's jump into item 6A certification of delinquent utility accounts miscellane private miscellaneous private party assessments and I believe you're handling that to miss kinw [37:13] **Finance Director Ms. Kinser:** I am Mr Mayor members of the council tonight we're having public hearings for both our delinquent utility bills and for our nuisance um miscellaneous property assessment charges um so first I'm going to give you a little background kind of on both um the city bills Property Owners on a quarterly basis um the payments for their utility bills are due 35 days later after they receive the bill um each year we conduct a review of our accounts to find all accounts that have delinquent balances that are [37:47] **Finance Director Ms. Kinser:** charges Beyond 30 days um we look at active accounts through June 1st and we look at final um accounts where people have moved out of their um properties through July 1st we send notices to these Property Owners to let them know that there's a potential assessment of amounts that are delinquent on their account and that they would be assessed this year and collected on next year's property taxes uh we provide information on their payment options so that they can avoid certification and the dates that they can make the payments through um we share information about the public hearing tonight where they can come and speak to the council regarding their account uh that are delinquent or they [38:33] **Finance Director Ms. Kinser:** can if they can't make it to the meeting they're allowed to write letters um to the city council so this year we sent 842 notices out to Property Owners um since we sent them out in the beginning of September approximately half of those accounts um that received notice notices have made payments to bring their accounts current so when people do call to discuss their delinquent bills staff refers residents um to Ramsey County if they're seeking help through any kind of programs that they might have to help them pay their bills um we also have a flyer that we put in the three fall [39:19] **Finance Director Ms. Kinser:** bills so we bill on a quarterly basis um so each of the Fall bills will have a flyer in it that talks about energy assistant programs through the community action program of Ramsey and Washington counties and um so those will be mailed out with the bills in early November December and January so that the customers also have um information that could help them we post this information in these on the city's social media sites so that if they don't see it in their bill they've they might see it when they're um prising their social social media so the city will accept payments we had a um initially before we come to the council we ask that their [40:04] **Finance Director Ms. Kinser:** payments be made through last Friday so that we could prepare the council memo um to bring to you with the resolution the city however continues to accept payments through the end of November we don't need to send our the certification notices in right away so that you'll approve um the resolution tonight but the um Property Owners can still make payments through November before we send in the information to Ramsey County we make sure that those payment those items have been taken off our list um so um I'm not sure if there is someone that's anybody that's registered to speak tonight at the public hearing but there are five people who sent in [40:52] **Finance Director Ms. Kinser:** letters um requesting the council uh consider not uh assessing their delinquent utility bills to their property taxes I've included those in your packets and given my recommendation on um to whether you uh approve their request or deny it and keep it with the um certification list uh as we prepared the resolution for this year um last year the mayor had asked that we look through the resolution and work with the city attorney to update it to describe how we handle any of those requests if they if the council does approve to Mo remove one from the list um so the City [41:38] **Finance Director Ms. Kinser:** attorney and I worked together to update that resolution to make sure that is appropriate so in regards to this item I'm asking that the council approve the attached resolution to certify any delinquent accounts as of the end of November to the appropriate County for the assessment to of the 2024 property tax statements and as we refer to just the appropriate County because we do have those few um homes that are in Washington County so that's the part on the util uh the delinquent utility bills uh quick portion on the um miscellaneous assessments during the year the city provides um several Property Owners with services that we require reimbursement [42:24] **Finance Director Ms. Kinser:** for um it would like Property Maintenance tree removal Lawn Care um that code enforcement deems is necessary since the property owner isn't taking care of the these tasks and then we invoice those um properties for the work that is done um a second Type U that is being added this year is police response to false um to false Security Alarms um police officers responding to Security Alarms make every effort to find a valid reason for why that alarm is going off but if there is no valid reason the police department tracks those responses and notifies property owners that a fee will be charged um once they reach the [43:11] **Finance Director Ms. Kinser:** fourth response and going forward um just because this is drawing our resources away from their duties and so they're trying to have the property owners be sure that their security alarms are working and only going off when truly needed so we haven't assessed this in past years however I was looking through ordinances and did find that um we our ordinance that was adopted in um 2005 gives the city authority to assess the unpaid fees for this category so I included them this year regards to both the property maintenance and these false Security Alarms the city has build the property owners for their services at the properties um as with the utility billing accounts we've sent notices to [43:57] **Finance Director Ms. Kinser:** Property Owners we alerted them that the assessment was possible for um these amounts that were do we provided information on the when they could make their payments and um shared information about the public hearing tonight if they would like to speak to the council about the D delinquent amount so in total there are five invoices for two properties that remain unpaid um both of them relate to the false alarm security alarm responses as with the delinquent utility bills we will accept payments on these accounts through the end of November um before certifying any unpaid balances to Ramsey County so in this [44:42] **Finance Director Ms. Kinser:** item I am asking the council to approve the attach attached resolution to certify any delinquent accounts as the end of November to the appropriate County for assessment for the 2024 property taex statements [44:54] **Mayor Dan Steffen:** thank you Miss Kinser at this time I will open it up to a public hearing for anyone who would like to speak to the issue of delinquent utility accounts and I'll note that I do not have anyone on my signup sheet seeing none I will bring it back to the council so a couple questions Miss Kinser one the resolution as written I want to make sure I have this clear are you saying that it is certifying the delinquency to the county but carving out those five that have have reached out and tried to make [45:29] **Mayor Dan Steffen:** arrangements with the city or are they included [45:31] **Finance Director Ms. Kinser:** they are included um Mr Mayor I um I included them they're on the list I'm recommending based on information and reviewing their accounts and their requests that we continue and include them on the list so we wouldn't be taking anybody off the list we'd be assessing the list as it is in the packet [45:51] **Mayor Dan Steffen:** okay and then just to clarify on the commercial side the false alarms we give folks about four screw-ups if you will and then at that point then we begin assessing and I mention it because I've had some experience this in my day job um alarm systems sometimes take some [46:15] **Mayor Dan Steffen:** time to work out the bugs but four is more than enough to kind of figure things out and uh I I note that because I'd be in favor of certifying those you have to get your alarm system working properly and if you can't then shut your alarm off I mean that's just how it is you're you're you're sucking up police resources and fire rescue resources for false alarms we think we've given them more than enough of a buffer at four so enough is enough so I I would support certifying that as for the few the handful of people that have reached out I mean I would be amenable to making some exceptions because it is such a small amount of people I here's where my head is if the total list is so many and and for the handful of people that have taken the time to write a letter to the city saying I'm falling on hard times I [47:00] **Mayor Dan Steffen:** want to work with the city I want to formulate a plan and for not a great deal of money in terms of the city's budget um I would be open to working with those folks knowing that we're not foreclosing our ability to certify it the next year round if we needed to so I would welcome a discussion on that if the council was so inclined and with that council do we have any questions for Miss kin vadder council member edberg [47:31] **Councilmember Edberg:** thank you Mr Mayor Miss Kinser can you remind me of our policy on what interest rate recharge on um uh on these uh uh Collections and do we have a consistent one across all such decisions or where we add on that we didn't used to [47:45] **Finance Director Ms. Kinser:** Mr mayor council member edberg you're correct we did not um have a similar interest rate in past years however this year based on um a comment that you had made we made it consistent so the interest rate that we use for our special assessments is 2% above the interest rate that the city received in its last Bond sale and so our last Bond sale was 3.72% the interest rate for these assessments is 5.72% [48:20] **Councilmember Edberg:** thank you and then Mr Mayor from just a procedural question um are we going to entertain two resolutions one for the commercial one for the home uh [48:30] **Mayor Dan Steffen:** that's correct y they're two separate resolutions great thank [48:33] **Mayor Dan Steffen:** you any other thoughts or comments from the council or would anyone like to make a motion to approve one of the two resolutions [48:40] **Councilmember Jones:** Mr Mayor I'll make a motion to approve the certified and delinquent miscellaneous private property assessments Sans REM uh with removing the five res Residential Properties that accompanied our packet [48:58] **Mayor Dan Steffen:** so I'll take that as a motion to amend the resolution as before us uh removing those five and then a motion well we just stop there you you would remove those five a motion to amend the resolution as written to remove the five properties that have reached out to the city do I have a second on [49:18] **Councilmember:** that motion a second [49:19] **Mayor Dan Steffen:** any further discussion on that so [49:22] **City Attorney Troy Gilchrist:** Mr Mayor please Mr Mar Council just for clarification was those five on the miscellaneous or were they on the utility [49:28] **Finance Director Ms. Kinser:** utility okay [49:29] **Mayor Dan Steffen:** I believe the motion was on the miscellaneous resolution sorry if I was reading it wrong okay so let me let me re-clarify council member Jones was your motion to amend the applicable resolution as it pertains to residential homeowners to remove those five names that have reached out to the city which I believe is the second resolution in our packet [49:57] **Councilmember Jones:** yes [49:58] **Mayor Dan Steffen:** okay and then uh council member angrand would you be seconding that motion okay any further discussion on [50:07] **Councilmember Edberg:** that we good just to be clear Mr Mayor which motion which resolution is before the council right now [50:13] **Mayor Dan Steffen:** the resolution certifying delinquent charges related to the municipal utility system assessment for the city of White Bear Lake that's correct okay any further discussion on that council member Hughes [50:26] **Councilmember Hughes:** yeah Mr Mayor I was looking through the packet that um kiner put together I thought it was very comprehensive and um yeah I'm not in favor of removing these five properties if the people want to get um up to date on their payments they have up until the end of November to do it and if not it seems like in all five of the cases these are um uh frequent users of this system and [50:54] **Councilmember Hughes:** um and it sort of seems like I'm I'm I'm not trying to speak for them but it it looks as if this is sort of something that they kind of count on every year so I'm sure they don't but um you know when we're talking about seven of the last 10 years or um four of the last six years this isn't first time second time or even third time uh for some of these people so I won't be supporting the Amendment to the resolution [51:24] **Mayor Dan Steffen:** all right any further discussion on this seeing the none all those in favor of amending the resolution say I I any opposed [51:35] **Councilmember Hughes:** I [51:36] **Mayor Dan Steffen:** the uh motion carries the [51:40] **Mayor Dan Steffen:** resolution will be amended to remove those five names from the applicable resolution all right with that I would entertain a motion to approve the resolution as amended [51:50] **Councilmember:** move to approve [51:51] **Councilmember:** second [51:52] **Mayor Dan Steffen:** second any further discussion on this all those in favor say I I any opposed [52:00] **Councilmember Hughes:** [Inaudible opposition] [52:02] **Mayor Dan Steffen:** motion carries the resolution passes we have the second resolution that is before us that is the resolution certifying delinquent 2023 miscellaneous private property assessments for Recovery of city of white parake expenses I would entertain a motion to approve that resolution [52:19] **Councilmember:** sorry I have a motion a second [52:21] **Mayor Dan Steffen:** any further discussion on that seeing none all those in favor say I I any oppos motion carries that resolution [52:26] **Mayor Dan Steffen:** is passed all right thank you Miss kinf thank you all right item 6B final assessment role for the 2022 Southshore Boulevard sanitary sewer extension project Mr Copy whenever you're ready [52:39] **Public Works Director Paul Copy:** thank mayor MERS of the council I'm going to just run through just a quick background just to uh for recollection um a quick uh map from the uh City's last comp plan just showing the last couple of areas that have um existing um on-site septic systems uh in lie of City sanitary sewer uh the area on the south side of Whitebear lake with the arrow is the area and that uh is under this this is uh accounts for roughly half of the remaining 25 or so um systems that were [53:13] **Public Works Director Paul Copy:** still um on septic as as uh as of the uh last comp plan um so this uh takes about 13 or takes 13 properties and moves them to the ability to uh have uh Municipal Sewer Service um there's kind of the highlight of that area so those are the 13 uh they're large acre Parcels near the lake so it's beneficial for the lake from a water quality standpoint not having septic systems you know that close to the lake which ultimately uh leech uh into the lake so uh a great benefit to the city to get uh these last remaining partials off um so the improvements uh we did it as part of the county Southshore Boulevard Trail and and roadway project [54:00] **Public Works Director Paul Copy:** we extended about 750 ft of sanitary sewer uh to get us uh the rest of the properties up to Bel Air um onto that uh Municipal sewer system um the total cost of the improvements were $170,000 of that going through our um a review process with our uh property appraiser um the each property is being being assessed $111,000 um for a total assessment amount of $143,000 um so each of these Parcels uh like I said is getting an $11,000 assessment um that assessment period would be uh over 15 years and like Miss [54:46] **Public Works Director Paul Copy:** Kinser had said the uh current interest rate is 2% over that bond rate bond rate or 5.72% and this would be payable on the 2024 taxes so as you can see on there we had a it's a long ongoing project uh that the count working with the county to get the Southshore Boulevard project completed uh we're at that last Milestone at the bottom for the assessment hearing so uh similar to what you uh just had heard um per statute uh 429 for the consideration of assessment role for Southshore Boulevard uh sewer extension project uh we need to have a public hearing so um official notice was published in [55:32] **Public Works Director Paul Copy:** the uh newspapers as well as uh notice asent to benefiting properties um this was a little bit unique where we allowed um some extra time for property owners to consider uh delaying that assessment uh until hookup um as of uh that deadline at the end of September we did not receive anybody um or any properties that want wanted to do that um we actually to date have um of those 13 Parcels we already have five of them connected one is um ready to connect he has to do some additional interior uh Plumbing I actually have two properties that don't currently have structure so once a structure is built they would have it so that leaves us with you know five yet to be connected so pretty good [56:18] **Public Works Director Paul Copy:** uh initial run at getting folks connected uh we'll continue to work as septic systems uh were to fail so we um uh would require that they have um inspections at minimum every 3 years so um that would be trigger to have them connect at any point their subs fail um so again tonight uh similar to the previous um uh presentation uh residents can appeal their assessment through written notice uh as of uh right now we have not received any um uh not sure if anybody is here to speak tonight but we have to uh to date have not received any notice of appeal prior to this meeting um so the action that uh staff is recommending is Council hold the [57:05] **Public Works Director Paul Copy:** public hearing for the 2022 Southshore Boulevard sanitary sewer extension project and ultimately adopt the resolution approving the assessment role for the project and certifying them for payable 2024 property taxes [57:19] **Mayor Dan Steffen:** thank you Mr Copy at this time I will open it up to a public hearing and note that I have no one on my signup sheet but anyone who would like to speak to this issue is welcome to come forward now please and if you could state your name and address for the record as you come to the podium I would appreciate it thank you [57:38] **Jane Kerus:** my name is Jane kerus I represent Southshore Trinity Lutheran Church which is technically in the township however we do own 2464 Southshore Boulevard which is in the city U Mr Copy when I spoke with you uh [57:51] **Jane Kerus:** few weeks ago wondering why I got two letters and everything I've figured that out what I would just like to ask Mr Mayor and and council members has there been any decision to perhaps lower the interest rate since the projection trend is to go down in the next what I would consider shortterm two to three years or is there any other thing that would would has been decided upon since receiving the second letter as well about decreasing the $11,000 for people who have no structures [58:24] **Mayor Dan Steffen:** can you speak to the the interest rate and where we arrived at the $111,000 assessment um I'll start with [58:29] **Public Works Director Paul Copy:** the $1,000 assessment and then uh Miss kinb might uh as long as she's here this evening uh we can talk a little bit [58:37] **Public Works Director Paul Copy:** about the interest rate as far as the $1,000 assessment uh what we did was as we uh evaluated the um total project cost you can see that not 100% of those costs were actually assessed uh we evaluated that with an independent Property Appraiser looking at what that uh cost and benefit or the uh cost of the project and what that benefit would be against those properties um per chapter 429 our assessment um chapter within statutes requires that we um only assess what that property benefits we typically will drop it a little bit just to make sure that we're well under that amount on that property appraiser um providing uh [59:22] **Public Works Director Paul Copy:** felt that providing sanitary SE service to uh Parcels that do not uh the $11,000 FS Falls well within that benefit for those properties um like I said we've already had uh five properties hook up a 61 ready to go um and even some of the ones that uh the five that have not connected yet we've had discussions with some of those some of those property owners that um you know have relatively new septic systems otherwise you know they uh are going to make that change when they can so they uh those Property Owners feel that benefit as there and as well as our appraiser as far as the interest rate I don't know if Miss Kinser wants to comment any of that as far as I'm not the financial expert on [1:00:11] **Public Works Director Paul Copy:** uh the market and Trends and things like that so [1:00:13] **Finance Director Ms. Kinser:** Mr Mayor members of the council um we have a a consistent policy of how we've set the interest rates that we've done on our um assessments uh we make sure that the the property owners or the utility bill um customers are paying the same interest rate where we are the added 2% covers the extra work that we do by submitting the certification process and then maintaining those special assessment spreadsheets through the year we have extra tracking that we have to do with our um audit and things like that so that's what that extra 2% is okay thank [1:00:57] **Jane Kerus:** you Mr Copy Miss kinb thank you very much for your forthright information Mr Mayor and council members thank you very much for the opportunity to speak thank [1:01:12] **Mayor Dan Steffen:** you would anyone else like to speak to this issue seeing none I will close the public hearing bring it back to council Council we have questions for Mr Copy or I would entertain a motion to approve the resolution council member Walsh [1:01:27] **Councilmember Walsh:** uh thank you Mr Mayor Mr C just a just a technical question um um the septics the wells the septics are still there so we pump it one last time and then cap it I mean what's the process uh you talk about seepage into white be Lake I mean what what's the sort of closeup process for that yep uh [1:01:50] **Public Works Director Paul Copy:** council member Walsh mayor members of the council um as far as that abandonment process that is uh overseen by Ramsey County they oversee the on-site septic uh system program within Ramsey County um so what they Property [1:01:58] **Public Works Director Paul Copy:** Owners would do is they would hire a contractor that would come in typically break out the top of the uh septic tank uh pump it out one last time uh fill it with sand um take out any uh remaining structures that uh are easily taken out but typically abandoned in place um and then the uh um system then is pretty much sealed and uh the uh I'll call it continuation of water to go through it stops that leeching of of uh contaminants into the lake and so just I'm just so I'm 100% clear that it's we're assessing the $1,000 um but but they don't people don't have to sign up they don't have to [1:02:44] **Public Works Director Paul Copy:** hook up right away there's an additional cost to hook up for them as a homeowner so they're I could run my septic for a few more years until it fails and then I got to come on um that's sort sort of volunt Ary still uh mayor members of the council that is correct uh so our code states that once sanitary sewer is available to a property um we would no longer allow issuance of a uh say they their septic system failed they would not be able to come in for a permit to uh rehabilitate to repair that septic system they would need to connect to our uh Municipal sewer sewer system thanks [1:03:22] **Councilmember Edberg:** council member edberg Mr Mayor two questions Mr Ki so in the original part of your presentation the total [1:03:30] **Councilmember Edberg:** costs of the project are in excess of what we are assessing or proposing to assess where what funds are paying for the difference we're I think it's about I don't know 10 20,000 something like that um where's that coming from um I get that we under statute we can only assess for the estimated value for a property um so that's where we get the 11,000 but how how do we uh make the math work uh [1:04:12] **Public Works Director Paul Copy:** council member edberg mayor me members of the council um the additional uh approximately $30,000 funded through City funds um the uh sanitary sewer fund um some of it was uh [1:04:17] **Public Works Director Paul Copy:** replacement of uh uh existing manholes to be able to make the connection um and uh again that um Delta between the ability to um you know what that benefit or what that appraisal felt that benefit would be for that property so that we didn't exceed it um but uh so the additional funds were paid for um through city funding um through the sanitary sewer fund okay so what's the rational of assessing I I get that a pro a property that has a structure that is going to use the system um they're going to use it they should pay I don't have an issue with that what's the rationale between [1:05:03] **Councilmember Edberg:** so the parking lot in question has been a parking lot for as long as I can remember um what what's the rationale for assessing unused properties uh [1:05:13] **Public Works Director Paul Copy:** council member edberg uh mayor members of the council as far as the uh um I'll call it the properties that do not have a structure or ones that are currently on septic it's it's that ability to connect um so that um say the uh Parcels in question uh next to the church it is actually a it's not part of the parking lot it's actually an open lot uh the house was torn down they still have a garage structure on it uh theoretically the church could sell that uh somebody could come in and build a home on it um they would be required to [1:05:48] **Public Works Director Paul Copy:** connect to that sanitary sewer system so that system in place provides that benefit for uh that future parcel you know for example a somebody comes in and develops a a uh property um and they install water sanitary sewer storm sewer they're providing that instant connection that benefit for that property if it wasn't there that property would have to come in and install that themselves in order to to uh connect to that system so it's kind of in place ready to go for them once they uh actually build [1:06:31] **Mayor Dan Steffen:** I would entertain a motion to approve the resolution [1:06:35] **Councilmember:** move to approve [1:06:36] **Mayor Dan Steffen:** do I have a second [1:06:37] **Councilmember:** second [1:06:37] **Mayor Dan Steffen:** any further discussion on this seeing none all those in favor say I I any opposed motion carries the resolution passes thank you item seven we have nothing scheduled item 8 a a a resolution approving edible canono products license for multiple eligible businesses Miss Crawford thank you [1:07:07] **City Manager Lindy Crawford:** uh mayor members of the council um dur the during the 2023 legislative session the Minnesota Legislature enacted a comprehensive legislation relating to cannabis including the establishment of the office of cannabis management [1:07:17] **City Manager Lindy Crawford:** providing for the licensing inspection and regulation of cannabis businesses and hemp products taxing the Sal of cannabis flour cannabis products and certain hemp products and providing for the temporary regulation of certain edible cannaboid products so um once the office of cannabis management is uh established which is approximately going to be January 2025 they will become the regulatory Authority for uh the licensing of cannabis businesses and the cell sale of cannaboid products including that the lower potency hemp products or the edibles so since there uh would be no regulatory um Authority overseeing the sale of those products until 2025 the city [1:08:03] **City Manager Lindy Crawford:** council did pass an ordinance um on August 22nd of this year requiring a license and imposing regulations on the retail sale of uh of Edibles until the products are licensed through the office of cannabis management um seven eligible establishments have applied for the uh edible can product license and those establishments are uh sellers Wine and Spirits Cub Wine and Spirits elevated beer wine and spirits luns and B Le Wine and Spirits M&J tobacco nothing but hemp and Summit liquor so um consistent with our other business licenses these licenses if they are approved um they will end March 31 [1:08:48] **City Manager Lindy Crawford:** 2024 um at which time then they would reapply for Renewal the police Department did conduct a background investigation um for each of those uh um uh uh applications and found nothing to preclude the issuance of the licenses um it should be noted um however M&J tobacco and nothing but hemp were cited for failed compliance checks in November 2022 relating to the sale of Edibles um prior to the adoption of uh this edible cannaboid products license um and during the city's moratorium regarding the sale of low potency hemp products so um we do recommend that you issue licenses to uh those seven establishments um and with [1:09:35] **City Manager Lindy Crawford:** that we uh staff can stand for questions M Crawford Council questions comments what would' like to do council member Walsh [1:09:44] **Councilmember Walsh:** well thank you Mr Mayor we just to just to pick up on that last comment you know we spent some time here November 2022 uh with two of these companies uh because they failed compliance checks and I guess I thought at the time that that those failed compliance checks would sort of be on their permanent record but really can you just somebody just explain we we don't have the ability to we're the staff is recommending going ahead with with the licenses for those two even though they failed compliance checks a year ago just just help me understand that I guess there's there's what's the reason we're not we're allowing that to go through even though they failed compliance checks [1:10:20] **City Attorney Troy Gilchrist:** Mr Jo thank you Mr uh mayor and [1:10:22] **City Attorney Troy Gilchrist:** council members so as you recall I did attempt to address this in in the ordinance that you eventually adopted uh though it doesn't trigger those past noncompliance issues if there was a conviction that came out of that then yes that the ordinance specifically provides for uh if the applicant was convicted within the last 5 years of violating any federal state or local laws related to edible cannaboid products or the operation of the eligible business that would be a basis on which to to um deny now going forward um if there's a violation and you take action as a council against the license uh then that would that would potentially make them ineligible uh to obtain a license moving forward and that's not just on the sale of edible uh cannaboids it's if there're [1:11:09] **City Attorney Troy Gilchrist:** a tobacco business and they violate tobacco it could affect their this license as well so that's the piece that was added to this to try to get to that issue that Council has kind of wrestled with on and off over the last year and a half or so [1:11:24] **Councilmember Walsh:** well thank you for that so it's it's just we talked about this wild wild west we were in the wild wild west a year ago we didn't have this ordinance or un ordinance available we didn't have this licensing uh protocol in place uh so I'm I'm glad we do now and I'm I'm I'm thank you I guess to the staff because we spent a lot of time on licensing these products over the last year now so um yeah so I guess I guess I'm I'm I'm satisfied with that answer and I'm I'm happy the way things are set up up going forward so I'm happy to move approval of [1:11:53] **Councilmember Walsh:** the resolution [1:11:54] **Mayor Dan Steffen:** very good I have a motion do I have a second [1:11:55] **Councilmember:** thank [1:11:56] **Mayor Dan Steffen:** any further discussion on this seeing none all those in favor say I I any opposed motion carries resolution passes and the licenses are approved thank you all right item 8B the execution of a partial settlement agreement related to water levels in Whitebear Lake and before I throw this our City attorney I will remind the council and I'm sure Mr Gilchrist will Echo this this is not a global settlement meaning this is still active litigation so what we say at this council is critical because again the litigation is still ongoing and there's still at least one uh claim on this case [1:12:41] **Mayor Dan Steffen:** that is still yet to be tried so with that primer I'll throw things to Mr Gilchrist [1:12:46] **City Attorney Troy Gilchrist:** well thank you Mr Mayor and Council yeah just a a high L level overview here as you all are quite aware uh the lake level litigation ran its course uh and as a result of that district court ordered uh that certain conditions be added to the water Appropriations permits not only for the city of wer Lake but for other cities in the area uh as part of that process uh under the rules the city has an opportunity to challenge that um uh new conditions added to its permit and so really all of the Cities agreed independently but it just so happens that they all elected to challenge that so all of the Cities engaged then in a [1:13:26] **City Attorney Troy Gilchrist:** process of working through this contested case process uh through the administrative uh law judge uh to look at the four conditions that the district court ordered uh be added to the um um all of those water appro Appropriations permits uh through that process there were mediations that happened at least a couple of them very long uh try to work out uh an attempt to resolve the language of those four uh conditions in a way that uh satisfied uh the parties involved uh there was language that came close on three of them uh and now litigation has actually started the the the trial portion of litigation has started uh to the mayor's Point uh City staff are actually scheduled to testify in the near future on on this uh so this [1:14:12] **City Attorney Troy Gilchrist:** is still very much active litigation so I would encourage everyone not to get too much into the details but the point what staff is asking um the council to consider this evening is uh three of the the U conditions um excluding the um residential irrigation ban uh but dealing with uh the revised water supply plan uh condition uh the condition related to um uh having to uh make uh submit a plan to the DNR uh related to uh managing the per capita use of water uh and then finally uh on creating an annual report and submitting that to the the DNR those three of the four conditions the language that we're [1:14:57] **City Attorney Troy Gilchrist:** frankly fairly close to before uh did gel just recently uh with the associations agreeing DNR agreeing uh and so now it's before you as a council uh to um consider approving that so at least three of those four issues can be resolved and do not need to continue in litigation so then the litigation becomes focused on the U irrigation ban I'd be happy to answer any questions [1:15:23] **Mayor Dan Steffen:** very good do I have any questions for City attorney or I would entertain a motion to approve the resolution authorizing execution of a partial settlement agreement and related documents council member Ed bur [1:15:35] **Councilmember Edberg:** thank you Mr Mayor so this one's on me I did not see the the memo in our packet I did not if if if we had [1:15:43] **Councilmember Edberg:** been advised that there was such an action coming I missed that uh in any pre meeting uh uh information when we when you asked for the consent agenda I saw a memo taking up a resolution that I didn't think I had seen before so I asked it to be pulled from the consent agenda so that's on me but um I have no issues with uh uh the city uh uh attorney's uh exposition of what we're agreeing to I'll move approval [1:16:11] **Mayor Dan Steffen:** very good do I have a second [1:16:13] **Councilmember:** second [1:16:14] **Mayor Dan Steffen:** any further discussion on this seeing none all those in favor say I any oppose motion carries the resolution is approved all right item 9A 25 M mph hour speed [1:16:29] **Mayor Dan Steffen:** limit for certain residential roadways I believe Mr Copy you're taking this [1:16:33] **Public Works Director Paul Copy:** I will take this uh thank you mayor members of the council uh uh kick it off um if hopefully most you recall we had a recently over the last several years uh Miss shimik uh did a very nice job running a an AV pilot project uh I was originally um um a whole Consortium of different groups in the U ofm mot um Chamber of Commerce originally started it so uh City Whitebear Lake jumped in and one of those requirements in order to run that pilot project was to reduce the speed limit on along the route to 25 M hour to meet uh certain safety requirements for [1:17:16] **Public Works Director Paul Copy:** that project um so kind of in uh I shouldn't say sight we you know as part of that process we needed to do a speed study of those roadways to do that lowering to 25 mil hour and um many of you might know that uh cities were given and I'm I'm going to mess up the date about four or five years ago we were uh cities were given the ability to uh lower speed limits to 25 miles an hour in certain cases uh um as they see fit um you can go lower to 20 M hour if uh you do a full engineering study and very in-depth process to get to that point um so we were able to use that [1:18:03] **Public Works Director Paul Copy:** ability to lower it to 25 M hour but uh what engineering staff did was we actually did those speed counts um well the roadway before the in early 2021 before the roadway was um resigned to 25 M hour um I included those um kind of Statistics Within the uh Council memo um I showed you both the or uh three different uh kind of points the 50% tile speed the 85th per tile speed and the average speed everyone looks at speed a little bit differently from an engineering standard uh we really look at the 85th perc tile speed meaning that uh 85% of the people are at or below that given speed um 15% of the folks [1:18:51] **Public Works Director Paul Copy:** based on um of you know years and years of engineering data and studies show that there's 15% of the public that are just going to drive over whatever speed limit you post um ideally that 85th percentile would be very close to the posted speed limit um you can go lower to 20 M hour if we were to move in that direction there's a cost that goes with redoing all these signs and having Public Works put them out so if it's not [1:19:30] **Public Works Director Paul Copy:** actually going to do anything in the name of Public Safety then to me this is kind of a no-brainer it was it was an experiment worth worth conducting with got good data the data says let's just leave well enough alone so my recommendation would be let's leave leave well enough alone so Council what are our thoughts on that council member Jones [1:19:38] **Public Works Director Paul Copy:** a number of communities around us uh over the last four or five years have uh Reign residential roadways 25 mph St Paul Minneapolis really led the charge with that where they redid their entire communities and adjacent to us I know mamea has done the same same thing um Rochester has done it in in a number of their districts as well as a a whole host of other communities I list them all um myself and some engineering staff even uh have been tracking this uh earlier this year I sat in in we have a kind of a quarterly Ramsey County city county Engineers meeting uh City St Paul presented and saw very little if any change in their speed limits posting [1:20:25] **Public Works Director Paul Copy:** from 30 m an hour down to 25 M hour it was .1.2 M an hour kind of inde cipher indecipherable um we recently did a uh sat in on a webinar for uh our city Engineers Association uh earlier in October um again listening to a presentation and those communities that did a similar mini study that we just did here here uh so saw no drop in speed limits posting from 30 to 25 mph so taking a kind of looking at the right hand of that uh table that I provided in the memo you see the 2023 um table and this is what it was [1:21:10] **Public Works Director Paul Copy:** signed 25 M an hour so we did this um it's still signed 25 mil per hour today but if you look it really mimics what you know again this is we're talking point you know a fraction of a mile per hour um very closely mimicking when it was sign 30 m hour so people aren't looking at signs they're driving what what they feel comfortable driving on the roadway and even if you look at orchard speed limits went up people are in more of a hurry along that roadway I I don't know um but uh it was reiterated in in the recent webinar that roadway design is really what affects um you know Road withd it's the curvature of roads it's you know [1:21:56] **Public Works Director Paul Copy:** Hills and Valleys it's um trees it's all that kind of stuff that make people you know want to look at the scenery want to look at you know say Lake Avenue for example probably you know if we did speed studies on Lake Avenue uh very low um people want to look at the scenery it's tighter it's people walking by uh we don't have that um along a lot of our roadways um we were developed you know white be Lake was developed prior to you know um if you would have a blank slate and go and design roadways design you'd have narrow roadways you'd have trees along them you'd have all these elements that would help make people drive slower um so I guess just in in summary um from [1:22:43] **Public Works Director Paul Copy:** what we're seeing what other communities are seeing is it's merely signing something 5 miles an hour lower is not making a difference um so um based on that uh staff would recommend that we so uh taking a step back the previous Council action um allowed at the end of 2023 the speed limit to the 25 mph speed limit to expire and it would revert back to the original 30 mil per hour and that's what tonight staff is recommending based on our study and other studies that communities have have done in similar reduction of speed so I'd be happy to answer any questions [1:23:23] **City Manager Lindy Crawford:** if I can just add to that so we're not looking for um any action tonight we wanted to have a discussion um with the city council present this information and if you wish to um have it expire sooner or if you would like us to do further studies um or post it 25 miles per hour that's the feedback that we are looking for tonight thank you [1:23:44] **Mayor Dan Steffen:** thank you Mr Copy and M Crawford um so here's what I think the 25 mil an hour mph speed limit sounds really good on paper but the the facts and the study show that it means absolutely nothing and so that alone to me says let's just let the speed limit of 25 M hour lapse and then revert back to 30 and move on with life um it also is worth noting that if we were to move in that direction there's a cost that goes with redoing all these signs and having Public Works put them out so if it's not [1:24:15] **Mayor Dan Steffen:** actually going to do anything in the name of Public Safety then to me this is kind of a no-brainer it was it was an experiment worth worth conducting we got good data the data says let's just leave well enough alone so my recommendation would be let's leave leave well enough alone so Council what are our thoughts on that council member Jones [1:24:34] **Councilmember Jones:** so completely agree got the stats what changing from the 30 to 25 I'm just waiting you know what we haven't seen and I'm not asking for it because I don't think it's necessary where's the tickets where's the accidents where's all the incidents reports that is saying everything needs to you know we've survived I don't know my Street's been around for 90 [1:25:00] **Councilmember Jones:** years um I don't see it but the true question as well as the police enforcement adding to that cost um is is is probably the ongoing cost that never ends so yeah people speed I've had too many requests come in for Speed enforcements in nebor neighborhoods and guess who speeds on the streets wow shocker 80% of the people that live on them and that's what I want to say to people to hear it and just sidebar yeah we should change all of our stop signs to say stop shal because wow we are horrific in our community with stop signs it just seriously St [1:25:46] **Councilmember Jones:** optional or yield signs I don't even know why we have them so thank you Mr Mayor I'm not really advocating for that for anybody that doesn't get my humor [1:25:56] **Mayor Dan Steffen:** understood understood council member edberg [1:25:59] **Councilmember Edberg:** yeah thank you Mr Mayor I'm in in agreement with your sentiments I think we should allow it to expire um it does cause me to think so the one of the primary public health safety complaints that I receive is around speed it's speed in the neighborhoods and it's 200 I um Mr Copy I know that you have been in regular correspondence with a couple of my constituents who have a particular um view on the speed at on their roadway [1:26:34] **Councilmember Edberg:** um and I'm sympathetic to that I don't know what we do and so that my conversation my question is are there other strategies that we can pursue that might either Force compliance sence or do we just say we're not going to do anything go and do what you're going to do I'm not comfortable with that actually but um the middle ground doesn't seem to be working do we have any wisdom on um what we do with folks who routinely drive 10 to 15 miles over the speed limit in a residential area so in my mind that's what the [1:27:22] **Councilmember Edberg:** conversation needs to go not in terms of whether we retain a speed limit or not [1:27:26] **Public Works Director Paul Copy:** mayor members of the council um um and I think the mayor kind of alluded to it it is um you know people are driving that speed um the kind of the two things that uh can obviously affect uh how fast people drive are um like I had mentioned earlier is what that roadway looks like um you know and obviously we can't blow up 85 miles of our roadways and start over you know it's we are where we are we obviously as we um do roadway projects uh we look at what that um even [1:28:08] **Public Works Director Paul Copy:** since I've been here we've you know they uh some of the street reconstruct projects we would go and say we're going to replace this thing with a 32t wide Road you know we've actually backed that off a little bit you know we've narrowed it down um still do allow the you know the functionality of parking access to properties um but you don't need it as wide as people think you do and that actually slows people down you might have a car parked here and there people have to slow kind of weave in um as we um you know even get on with uh hopefully some of our reforestation programs we can start planting more Boulevard trees these canopies grow people when they feel confined people slow down um so as we as we uh move forward with different uh opportunities [1:28:54] **Public Works Director Paul Copy:** we can definitely change some of it like I said we can narrow roadways up we can um change the look and feel of them um the other side of it and I'm not the appropriate person maybe to talk about it enforcement is obviously um the other arm of it um which uh CC Jones stated I mean it costs money to you know um and uh we've all listened to our Public Safety you know report and things like that that there's not that they're not out enforcing traffic but they get pulled and called to anything from false alarm calls to you name it as we listen to their report so um those are the two kind of things that we see from an engineering community is design and [1:29:40] **Public Works Director Paul Copy:** enforcement are the two two arms of uh getting people to comply with speed limits [1:29:45] **Councilmember Jones:** council member Jones I okay I got to take the thank you Mr copy thank you Mr Mayor so I mean part of what we heard from our police chief and this has been going around in my head since he put some rather raw stats rather cold stats about where we are at with our police officers and every time I look at it I'm like okay well we we supposed to have 31 sworn officers and we're never full never somebody's hurt somebody's on vacation and we're talking not one two three we're talking five right now at least I [1:30:27] **Councilmember Jones:** think and Mr edberg we've been together along what we all have how many times have you heard we're full force never never We're Never full force so when we are asked to even go beyond you know 30 to 25 I don't know if we you know people are talking about speed Mr edberg asked the question about is there something we can do Mr Copy and that's what triggered and I'm not blaming you I'm saying okay what's more important Patrol Dennis and Dorothy intersection or be somewhere else and if we're down three four five officers guess what's not going to happen so I mean that's kind of just [1:31:13] **Councilmember Jones:** posing an open question there's nothing we can do about it today but it's it's putting the two together going enforcements and component I also like the idea okay i' I've got a neighbor that's wasn't happy with the city something about his vehicle in a driveway and you got to do something so he did what he needed to do and he Parks it on the street it's the best traffic calming device ever and I I just want to say thank you for parking on the street because it slows down the cars and so those devices do work and when we are doing trees or something maybe some areas can be looked at to do something different that that's more more than the cost of the tree and and I know funds are tight so I'm I'm I get it but it might be an opportunity to do [1:31:58] **Councilmember Jones:** something in the future thank you Mr mayor council member Hughes [1:32:02] **Councilmember Hughes:** oh thank you Mr Mayor I know Mr Copy a couple people in my neighborhood have looked for further stop signs I don't know if that slows down traffic at all um also I'm not advocating for it but I'm just wondering about speed bumps in some street that somebody wants it I know I don't nobody wants one I'm just asking if we're really trying to get people to go zero miles an hour and not you as an officer there you go it's just really take out your car uh [1:32:41] **Public Works Director Paul Copy:** mayor members of the council um another call that I get quite frequently you know just like uh you all get with uh speeds and stop sign concerns and and uh again I people tend to hate our answers all the time but um [1:32:56] **Public Works Director Paul Copy:** the the interesting thing in the U so US city engineers here's our traffic manual that we follow as this Manual of uniform control or manual of uniform Manual of uniform traffic control devices so we follow that to guide us and how we place signs uh striping on roadways things like that so it's uniform um predictable no matter if you drive in Minnesota or Texas or wherever I mean it is generally followed across the board do people make changes whatnot yes and those are are that as you travel you find confusing to drive in um as far as stop signs go the first sentence of that um the mute CD as we call it um is stop sign shall not be [1:33:33] **Public Works Director Paul Copy:** used for speed control um there's been enough engineering studies whatnot that show that um and council member Jones alluded to that people just if they are go through this quiet neighborhood 99% of the time and they never see another car approach they roll those stop sign signs and actually become a uh less safe because maybe the person on the other roadway say there's a stops and I can just go through it not have to look and the guy rolling it now of a sudden there's a collision so if you look at there's actually fewer in in a lot of areas there's actually fewer collisions on uh intersections with no stop control because everybody's kind of inching out kind of looking um the uh so yeah so from a stop sign [1:34:21] **Public Works Director Paul Copy:** stando Point not really effective uh for speed control the other thing that people tend to do is if you're going to make me stop I'm going to speed up once I get through that intersection to make up time that I lost so actually actually increase speeds on the other side of the stop sign so that's my my two cents on on the stop sign component the other uh component you asked about was speed bumps the problem with them in the state of Minnesota is we have to plow snow so to permanently uh put those in um like we have issues finding folks to be our police officers um I would have trouble finding people to be plow truck drivers because they would end up through the windshield all the time hitting them so um it is and I would [1:35:06] **Public Works Director Paul Copy:** invite anybody if you want to go on a snow plow Ride Along you hit even the smallest bump on the street um it's very noticeable in those big trucks that those guys drive so I'm not a safe condition um there's really not a practical approach to you know they do it in in parking lots uh much smaller equipment skid steers things like that that they're plowing with so uh more predictable it might be one speed bump in front of a Target store um very predictable where it's at they you know and half the time you know it's uh they use so much salt that they don't even plow um so so different conditions than our roadways are so um not really a practical approach in our climate uh they are used uh in other climates at [1:35:51] **Public Works Director Paul Copy:** times where they're not plowing and things so um but in Minnesota unfortunately not really in our arsenal of devices that we would use [1:36:00] **Mayor Dan Steffen:** so it sounds like the consensus is let's just let things revert back any final thoughts on this [1:36:06] **Councilmember Walsh:** Mr just quick question divert back so if we do nothing it diverts back and there's I mean I would go tomorrow if I C my way but that causes work and a resolution and all that so that's fine we can wait but I'm out I'd do it tomorrow if it was easy [1:36:23] **Mayor Dan Steffen:** yeah to me it's I'm with you I'm with council member Walsh I just assume that it was logistically simpler to just let it sunset and move on is that a true statement okay okay good okay so do we have the feedback we need I think so thank you that was a [1:36:37] **Mayor Dan Steffen:** good discussion thank you very good all right item 10 communication from the city manager all right thank you [1:36:44] **City Manager Lindy Crawford:** uh mayor we have a few um upcoming events that I want to share with the group so as a reminder to City city council and the mayor uh we have our boards and commissions recognition banquet uh Wednesday uh November 1st at 600 p.m. at Boat Works um I know some of you have already responded but please let us know if you're not available um otherwise we will plan on having you be there um our uh there's a proposed 2024 uh pavement Rehabilitation uh project information meeting um that's a a neighborhood meeting on Wednesday November 8th at 6:30 p.m. here so um notices have been mailed out um but [1:37:24] **City Manager Lindy Crawford:** wanted just to to showare that here publicly um next slide please and there is a another open house um for Washington County Century North reconstruction project so this open house is Thursday November 9th from 5: to 7:00 p.m. um that's at the Wildwood public library in mamidi so this is a reconstruction project um led by Washington County of uh Century Avenue or or 120 so um there's I think good information online about that or uh okay so um and then just in addition um I've sent a couple of emails to the council um last week um if you can just remember to respond to me on those um regarding [1:38:11] **City Manager Lindy Crawford:** strategic planning and then if there's any uh questions on surface water I'm looking for um some feedback by uh this Friday so um that is all that I have for tonight so thank you [1:38:24] **Mayor Dan Steffen:** any questions from M Crawford before we adjourn I see three students in the audience I assume you're from Mr mum's American government class four four of them no's more than one teacher teaching that yeah what was the teacher Mage Miss carbage okay very good well I I'll give you the same Spiel that I gave the the last group from a couple weeks ago I sat where you are 20 years ago doing the same assignment and I still remember that council meeting so it's one we're we're happy to have you here and we hope that you learn a thing or two about it and that this activity [1:38:56] **Mayor Dan Steffen:** keeps you engaged in local government long after you've gone on to graduate from high school and I can tell based on the fidgeting in the chair that you're ready to get up that you are following the agenda we are almost done there's only one other item of business and that's to adjourn but thank you for for participating and being here tonight and with that I will entertain a motion to adjourn [1:39:20] **Councilmember:** [Inaudible motion to adjourn] [1:39:21] **Mayor Dan Steffen:** all those in favor say I weour [1:39:34] **Unknown Speaker:** right well you keep saying but it's more than yeah I know malum teaches it still too but the but the other guys there's another teacher we're staying here oh great