This transcript is for a **Minneapolis Planning Commission** meeting. Please note that while your provided list includes the City Council and Mayor, Planning Commission members are separate appointees (though they often include one City Council representative). Based on the roll call and context within the transcript, I have identified the Commissioners and relevant staff. [0:17] **President Chris Meyer**: Welcome everyone to the regular meeting of the Minneapolis Planning Commission. Uh, my name is Chris Meyer. At this time, I will ask the clerk to please call the roll. [0:17] **City Clerk Staff**: Commissioner Chowdhury is absent. Commissioner Conley is absent. Garcia? [0:32] **Commissioner Garcia**: Present. [0:34] **City Clerk Staff**: Gordon? [0:35] **Commissioner Gordon**: Present. [0:36] **City Clerk Staff**: Jones? [0:37] **Commissioner Jones**: Here. [0:38] **City Clerk Staff**: Shepy is absent. Shepard? [0:40] **Commissioner Shepard**: Here. [0:41] **City Clerk Staff**: Wagner? [0:42] **Commissioner Wagner**: Here. [0:43] **City Clerk Staff**: Uh, Vice President Baxley? [0:45] **Vice President Baxley**: Here. [0:46] **City Clerk Staff**: And President Meyer? [0:48] **President Chris Meyer**: Here. [0:49] **City Clerk Staff**: There are seven members present. [0:51] **President Chris Meyer**: That is a quorum. Uh, first we'll move to the minutes of January 20th, 2026. Is there a motion to adopt those minutes? [1:01] **Commissioner Wagner**: So moved. [1:02] **President Chris Meyer**: All right. Is there a second? [1:03] **Vice President Baxley**: Second. [1:05] **President Chris Meyer**: Any discussion? All right. All in favor say aye. [1:10] **Commissioners**: Aye. [1:11] **President Chris Meyer**: Opposed? Abstentions? That is adopted. Uh, next we will organize our agenda. Staff is recommending that item four be discussed and item five be on consent. [1:16] Was anyone here to speak against the staff recommendation for item number five, which is 4238 and 4240 Fremont Avenue North? All right. Not seeing any. So we will have that on consent. Is there a motion to adopt that agenda? [1:35] **Commissioner Shepard**: Moved. [1:36] **Commissioner Jones**: Second. [1:37] **President Chris Meyer**: All right. All in favor say aye. [1:39] **Commissioners**: Aye. [1:40] **President Chris Meyer**: Opposed? That is adopted. All right. So, we'll open the public hearing for our one consent item, item number five. Did anyone want to speak to that? [1:51] All right. And we'll close the public hearing. Commissioners, were there any comments or discussion about item number five? All right. Is there a motion to adopt staff recommendation for item number five? [2:01] **Commissioner Garcia**: So moved. [2:02] **Commissioner Wagner**: Second. [2:03] **President Chris Meyer**: All right. All in favor say aye. [2:07] **Commissioners**: Aye. [2:08] **President Chris Meyer**: Opposed? That is adopted. All right. So, we'll move to our one discussion item. Uh, 760 3rd Street North. Staff is Andrew Liska. [2:36] **Andrew Liska (City Planner)**: Thank you, chair, commissioners. Again, this application before you is for a site plan review located at 760 3rd Street North. This is a three-story spa proposed at just over 34,000 square ft. The site is located on Third Street North and 8th Avenue North. It's currently vacant. There is a dog park and a surface parking lot. Uh, currently no alley serves this site and there are no natural or significant natural features on site. [3:09] **Andrew Liska (City Planner)**: Uh, a variety of uses make up this area predominantly residential, although there are commercial uses across Third and also along Washington. A mixed-use building abuts that shared lot line along the southeast. The Blue Line LRT extension plans also call for 8th Avenue to go underneath the viaduct connecting to Fifth Street North as well. [3:35] **Andrew Liska (City Planner)**: Again, this proposal before you is a three-story 34,000-foot spa and wellness use. There are pools, tubs, saunas, steam rooms on the first floor. Second floor is made up of locker room facilities as well as massage services. A smaller third floor uh connects to a rooftop deck with a pool area. There's an accessory food and beverage use enclosed. Also restrooms and a lounge area. This use is permitted in this zoning district. The applicants have applied for the site plan review. They've also submitted a minor TDMP. [4:11] **Andrew Liska (City Planner)**: Going over the floor plans, we see the lobby in the upper right. That's off of Third there. So again we see the pools, tubs, spas so on and so forth uh that make up that first floor. Second floor again locker room uh facilities, some massage areas there. Most of the third floor is that uh outdoor area, the uh rooftop deck there with the pool. Uh, small area is enclosed along that abutting uh property to the southeast and that's where the bar lounge area is. Uh, some restrooms. [4:53] **Andrew Liska (City Planner)**: So staff reviewed this development proposal, finds it does comply with most of the zoning code standards with three aspects needing alternative compliance. Those three are blank walls, window requirements, and general landscaping and screening. Staff is supportive of two of these requests, both the blank wall and the general landscaping and screening. Uh, code requires that any facade longer than 25 ft be broken up with a uh a facade recess, window, door, etc. The blank wall is along that uh southeastern uh lot line where that adjacent mixed-use uh building exists. That existing structure ranges from 0 to 4 to 8 ft from that lot line. Building code really limits what you could do in terms of breaks there. Uh, staff finds that complying with that is not really practical as it would largely be invisible. [5:52] **Andrew Liska (City Planner)**: Uh, next we have the landscaping and screening. A total of 47.2 square feet is required to be landscaped uh with that one tree and one shrub. Uh, staff finds that uh the red outline here uh is the footprint of the building. Most of that available area uh is made up in that recess associated with the front uh lobby entrance. Some facade breaks along and finds that uh meeting that landscaping uh requirement is not feasible for this. That blue line uh at the bottom is where the blank wall is adjacent to that existing structure. [6:34] **Andrew Liska (City Planner)**: The alternative compliance not supported by staff is regarding the first-floor windows both on Third and 8th. The zoning code requires 30% glazing. The Third Street has 26.4% glazing whereas the 8th Avenue side—again required to have 30—has 0% windows. Uh, staff recommends denying this and adds a condition of approval requiring that that 30% windows are met. Here's a rendering of the proposal. So again we see the lobby on the right there. Uh, one window. The rest of that Third Street facade uh largely windowless. All of that 8th Street facade is windowless. [7:23] **Andrew Liska (City Planner)**: Just going over again how we're looking at this. We take a band between 2 feet and 10 ft. Take a look at the width of the building. And that is where our window requirements come from. There are more windows associated with that lobby area that are not included in uh in those calculations being that they're over that 10 ft above grade. Uh, here's the eighth side. Again, largely void of all windows. Uh, again just in terms of square footages, the Third Street you know, 28.2 ft short of that minimum 30%; 8th Avenue side 355.2 square ft short of that required glazing. [8:08] **Andrew Liska (City Planner)**: So with that, staff recommends approval of the site plan review. Worth noting is that condition four uh regarding those windows, staff adds that the 30% window shall be uh added to that Third and 8th side to meet those uh requirements. I'll be here for questions. The applicant is also present. [8:27] **President Chris Meyer**: Thank you. Um, so the blank wall is not depicted here, right? It's it's behind this like next to the adjacent building. Okay. [8:40] **Andrew Liska (City Planner)**: It would be abutting that adjacent structure. [8:42] **President Chris Meyer**: Okay. Are there any other questions from commissioners before we move to the public hearing? Not seeing any. Oh, do we have a whole list? Oh, wow. Okay. [8:48] **Andrew Liska (City Planner)**: Uh, Chair Meyer, could we give the applicant an opportunity to speak? [8:51] **President Chris Meyer**: Sorry. Um, first, yeah, we we'll do the applicant first. You have uh 10 minutes for your section and apologies for that. [10:05] **Michael Margulies (Project Representative)**: Thank you, Mr. President. My name is Michael Margulies. I am the project representative for 800 3rd Lot, who's the developer of this Bath House project. With me tonight is Travis Talmage, who's the co-founder and the co-CEO of the Bath House, and he's in from New York, to provide a little bit more operational information to you as you make as you consider this uh as you consider this site plan. [10:30] **Michael Margulies (Project Representative)**: Planner Liska has presented um a site plan for approval with the condition that there will be 30% uh of window glazing on the first floor. We submit that the alternative compliance that's shown in the site plan is more than adequate for the planning commission to approve the site plan as shown. The 30% glazing requirement stems from a number of concerns. And the rationale for the glazing requirement is to provide a safe and eyes-on-the-street environment for the building and for the neighborhood. It's to raise the quality of the building exteriors, making them cohesive and attractive. And it's to make the buildings visually interesting and enhancing the uh pedestrian experience. [11:20] **Michael Margulies (Project Representative)**: The key points I'd like to leave with you tonight are that imposing the 30% standard actually makes the building and the neighborhood less safe, that there's more than sufficient alternative compliance in place to achieve the goals of the 30% glazing standard and that the site plan is adaptable to possible changes in use in the building if the future needs required. So I want to talk about safety for a minute. Contrary to the goal, the 30% standard imposing it here would make the neighborhood as well as the building less safe. [12:00] **Michael Margulies (Project Representative)**: Mr. Talmage is going to speak in greater detail to this issue and particularly how this building operates, but the rationale behind the glazing rule—safety and security—is actually put in jeopardy if the standard is imposed. So the first floor that uh Planner Liska showed you has a number of uh amenities of 7500 square ft. It's got a number of pools. It has three saunas, three pools, a Turkish bath, and other amenities. The people who will be customers and patrons of the bath house will be wearing very little clothing. They'll be wearing bathing suits. You'll be making them uh and they have an expectation of privacy and a reasonable expectation of privacy. [12:50] **Michael Margulies (Project Representative)**: So imposing the 30% window coverage would allow people from the street to peer in to ogle the undressed patrons and making them feel very uncomfortable. So put yourself in the position of you in this position, your spouse or your partner in this position and imagine how you would feel if you were undressed and on display because of these windows. We feel that women in particular would feel insecure and unsafe and this feeling would continue when they conclude their visit of the amenities, step outside and perhaps face the same people who've been looking at them through the window all the time that they've been uh in the spa. [13:30] **Michael Margulies (Project Representative)**: The other odd event that occurs here is that the inversion of the temperature caused by the steam in the facility and in the bath house will also cause the windows to steam up, which will essentially create a free graffiti wall for people to write on. So in both situations, allowing people to stop on the street to stop and stare at people using the amenity and writing who knows what on the windows essentially creates an attractive nuisance at the least and a dangerous attractive nuisance uh at the worst. [14:01] **Michael Margulies (Project Representative)**: There is more than sufficient alternative compliance in the plan to allow this site plan to go forward as presented. As Planner Liska showed, there is on the first floor of the 8th Avenue side, 0% uh window glazing. But if you look at the totality of the building, we more than exceed the window coverage. On the second floor of the 8th Avenue, which requires only 10%, we meet uh a 30% level of window coverage. And on the Third Street side we meet a a 60% uh window coverage. So if you look at the facades in their totality, these facades meet the window coverage and far and far exceed the window coverage. [15:00] **Michael Margulies (Project Representative)**: And why is this important? It's important because this goes to the goal of making the exterior of the building attractive and improving the pedestrian experience. We think that the building design and the window coverage on the first floor is consistent with the goals uh behind the 30% rule. The overall design of the building avoids monotonous facades. The design is high quality evoking an old-world bath house design and fits in with the warehouse uh district. The North 8th Avenue facade contains design elements that are effective in breaking up the first floor facade and making the facade architecturally interesting. [15:40] **Michael Margulies (Project Representative)**: We can actually improve on that if we have to by adding more architectural element in terms of vertical uh landscaping on the exterior of the building. The second-floor windows on 8th Avenue exceed the window coverage by 300% and they create an impactful visual design easily seen by pedestrians. Meanwhile, the North Third Street facade with its large and open entrance is visually appealing and fosters street level activity, transparency, and visual interest. [16:15] **Michael Margulies (Project Representative)**: The third question that has come up is whether or not this building is flexible for the future. What happens if the future uh use of this building changes? The building has been designed in such a way as the panels on the 8th Avenue facade can be removed and replaced with windows if the use of the building changes materially in the future. So there's sufficient alternative compliance to approve this site plan. Imposing the 30% standard creates an unsafe environment for the building. The building overall exceeds the glass requirements. These existing additional glass on the building and the other design elements make this building interesting. It makes it safe. It makes it a cohesive design and one that enhances the pedestrian experience. I'm going to let uh Travis Talmage uh join me now and explain a little bit about why this building is designed as it is. [17:26] **Travis Talmage (Co-Founder, Bath House)**: Thank you for having me. Um, my name is Travis Talmage. I'm the co-founder of Bath House. Um, appreciate all your time. Excited to be here. I have family in the Twin Cities, very fond of uh of Minneapolis. So, always exciting to come back here and we're excited to hopefully bring our business uh to the city here. So, I want to just give you a brief overview of our business because I think it's important context for what I'm going to say about the windows. Um, our business is very on the nose for what it's named. It is a modern version of a bath house. It's really focused on sauna and contrast therapy. [18:03] **Travis Talmage (Co-Founder, Bath House)**: So, we have multiple different kinds of saunas and very large ones at that. Multiple different types of pools, steam rooms. Um, and so we're in the temperature business. It's people getting hot and cold and doing that in a really great environment. Um, we have two locations that are open operating in New York about the same size. Um, and we're building eight across the country. We're going to open four this year. Um, and uh, very excited about about Minneapolis. So, the first thing I want to talk about is we're very committed to the city. Um, this is going to be in excess of a $25 million investment uh between us and the developer. So, we take sauna and bathhouses really seriously. Um, and we're doing that to really build a wow product that we think the city and the residents will be very proud of. [18:44] **Travis Talmage (Co-Founder, Bath House)**: Um, we're also a big employer. Um, we will conservatively hire 60 to 80 people here, potentially more. Um, so we create a lot of jobs. They're all better than prevailing wage. Um, these are jobs that people can live off and and make a career out of. Um, so I want to walk through the layout of the building a little bit and specifically the first floor. Our intention is not to go against what the zoning committee wants with the windows or what the neighborhood wants. We do this with a purpose. Um, our business is really designing best-in-class, best-in-the-world facilities. In order to do that, these amenity areas, which is on the first floor, it's really important that they're done the right way so that customers can have the best experience possible. [19:40] **Travis Talmage (Co-Founder, Bath House)**: When people are in there, as Michael just said, they're in bathing suits. They're going to different saunas, they're going to different pools, and it's really important that they feel comfortable. Um, I don't know if you guys ever sauna or cold plunge, but it's quite a stressful experience. It's supposed to be stressful, and if you're not comfortable, you're not going to get the most out of the experience, and people feel exposed because they are in bathing suits. So, one of the things we spend a lot of time on is the lighting design, not only for aesthetic—all of our locations that we've opened have won numerous design awards—but it's also because we designed the lighting so it's very flattering so that people are comfortable and can get the most out of the experience. So, we would never put windows in an amenity area. Similar to if you were going to try and build a great theater, you would never have windows in a theater because it disrupts the product. [20:08] **President Chris Meyer**: Can I go over a little bit? [20:10] **Travis Talmage (Co-Founder, Bath House)**: Okay, I'll try and make it quick. Um, so anyway, on that first floor, this is our main area where all the pools and the saunas are, and so people looking in on the street would be very uncomfortable for guests. Um, and I think it'd create a really awkward dynamic. Um, as Michael said, if we had windows, they would steam up. We would never let that light into our amenity areas because it is designed to be a completely controlled environment so that the guests can get the most out of it. [20:41] **Travis Talmage (Co-Founder, Bath House)**: Um, so the other thing I just want to mention is we spent a lot of time designing the space. We had a lot of offers to come elsewhere within the Twin Cities and greater Minneapolis. We want to be in the North Loop. We believe it's the best place for our business. We think it'll be a great addition to the North Loop. This is about as small a viable footprint as we can work with. I would love to have an entrance and lobby on the corner. That would be my preference. It didn't work once we started laying it out with where the stair towers would have to be and the elevator and all the stuff. So, this was a sacrifice to get this in this location and make it a really incredible world-class product. Um, it was not because we don't want to do windows. The windows don't work with our product. We think it would look bad. We have some proposals about doing some greenery um on the brick on the first floor. And as Michael said, we overdid the windows on the second floor. Um, it's not really ideal on the second floor, but we were able to make it work with the transom windows. So, um, I'm happy to answer any questions and just want to give you guys some context on why we designed it the way we designed it. [21:43] **President Chris Meyer**: Thank you. You said you have proposals for greenery. Is that what you said? [21:47] **Travis Talmage (Co-Founder, Bath House)**: We would be open to doing some greenery on the first floor, like some vines. Um, but we can't do windows. It doesn't work with our product. [22:00] **President Chris Meyer**: Okay. Um, I I want to understand more about why you can't do windows. So, you know, the rules require, you know, um transparent windows, but if we required windows, but um allowed them to be opaque, would that still work? Or is the issue with the water like being close to it? [22:25] **Travis Talmage (Co-Founder, Bath House)**: My opinion, opaque windows—that's not going to look as good as really nice brick or brick with some softening with some vines or something. Um, the light even coming into the space gets difficult for us because then we can't control the environment the way that it's ideal to be controlled so that customers can have the best experience possible. We're in the hospitality business. We're in the business of making people happy. We want them to be in the best mind space when they're in the space to get the most out of it. [22:50] **President Chris Meyer**: Okay. So, greenery is one thing you've considered. Have you considered murals or other artwork to break up the exterior? [22:58] **Travis Talmage (Co-Founder, Bath House)**: We wouldn't want to do murals. I think that's just difficult to do something that everybody's going to agree on. I mean, look, for what it's worth, we think this is a really beautiful building. Um, this is one of the buildings that we're proudest of and we have eight of them being built. Um, but no, a mural we would not want to do, but we would we would be open to doing—I can give this to you guys if you want, but we did a rendering with some vines on it. [23:15] **President Chris Meyer**: Yeah. Can you please show that? [23:25] **Andrew Liska (City Planner)**: Excuse me, Mr. Chair. Um, the document camera is not working today. [23:28] **President Chris Meyer**: Oh, no. [23:29] **Andrew Liska (City Planner)**: So, um, we can maybe pass it around. [23:30] **President Chris Meyer**: Yeah, that'll have to do. [23:31] **Travis Talmage (Co-Founder, Bath House)**: Do you want me to pass around on one side? [23:33] **President Chris Meyer**: Yeah. [24:10] **President Chris Meyer**: You said that um that there could be removable panels if the use of this building were to change. Is there a way for us to verify that or have that as like a condition or something? [24:20] **Travis Talmage (Co-Founder, Bath House)**: The developer is going to build it so that it's future-proof so that it would be designed in a way where you could knock out those panels and put in windows. [24:23] **President Chris Meyer**: And would the panels be like where the grass is on on here? [24:25] **Michael Margulies (Project Representative)**: Yeah. On the lower—on those bays that you see the uh the vines in. [24:35] **Andrew Liska (City Planner)**: Mr. Chair, that could be a condition of the approval. [24:38] **President Chris Meyer**: Yeah. All right. Other commissioners, questions for the applicant? [24:43] **Commissioner Gordon**: Yes. What's the proposed uh floor to ceiling height of that first floor space? [24:48] **Travis Talmage (Co-Founder, Bath House)**: 16 feet. Thanks, Michael. Yeah, 16 feet. [24:51] **Vice President Baxley**: Yeah. Hey, thank you. Yeah, I think this will be really exciting. I'm trying to figure out the floor plan relative to the facade, and it appears uh you've got a big window into the steam room next to the front door. Is that... [25:05] **Travis Talmage (Co-Founder, Bath House)**: It's into the office. So, we we actually redesigned that. The office was not originally there, but we wanted to try and get as much glazing as possible. So, we put our staff office there um so that there was extra glazing. [25:18] **Vice President Baxley**: Okay. So that's not a steam room. Okay. Um, and you said you were able to get some clearstories working on the second floor. Um, why wouldn't you consider that in the first floor um in the... [25:35] **Travis Talmage (Co-Founder, Bath House)**: Those are locker rooms and back of house spaces on the second floor. So we put transom windows up high because we're okay with natural light in there. Um, but the whole first floor is amenity area. So it's all the sauna in an open area and... [25:50] **Vice President Baxley**: So the sill of this window, if you've got 16-foot ceilings, would be above people's height. It would just let light in. It would be private, right? [25:54] **Travis Talmage (Co-Founder, Bath House)**: Yeah. And so we're trying to avoid... we want to control the lighting in that space. [26:05] **Vice President Baxley**: Lots of ways to do that. I'm imagining... [26:08] **Travis Talmage (Co-Founder, Bath House)**: I mean listen, we're we're not good at very many things, but we're very good at building this product. So, you know, we we want to make a material investment, make it a spectacular product, and you know, we just we know our business and we know that this is the right way to do it in the amenity space. [26:18] **Vice President Baxley**: Good. I'm I'm sure you've toured lots of spas around the world that basic light is a a huge component of how that works in there and it's controlled and it's very thoughtful and you guys do a great product here. It's just it seems like this could be a win-win all the way around. [26:34] **Travis Talmage (Co-Founder, Bath House)**: That's why we have the the rooftop which you know we intend to to have open throughout most of the year. Um, and so that gives kind of the the outdoor element of the experience. [26:50] **President Chris Meyer**: Other questions? All right. Not seeing any. Thank you. [26:55] **Travis Talmage (Co-Founder, Bath House)**: Thank you. [26:58] **President Chris Meyer**: So, now proceed with the rest of the public hearing. Um, so do we have Evelyn Carbry? Welcome. Introduce yourself and you have two minutes. [27:05] **Evelyn Carbry (Public Speaker)**: Great. Thank you to Minneapolis Planning Commission members. My name is Evelyn Carbry and I'm a resident of the Herschel Lofts located at that property, the mixed-use property adjacent to the proposed development at 760 North Third Street North. I'm here today to express my concern about the proposed development, especially the request for the variance for the required 30% window minimum along the first floor. [27:40] **Evelyn Carbry (Public Speaker)**: I've lived in the area since 2015. First as a resident at Third North across the street and now as a resident and homeowner at the Herschel Lofts for the last nine years. I like many others in our community are concerned about this lack of windows in the building, especially that it will reduce neighborhood safety and that it could be a potential liability um in trying to lease the building in the future should the Bath House development not be successful. [28:10] **Evelyn Carbry (Public Speaker)**: So, I'd like to address a couple of points that uh Michael brought up in the previous presentation um about the concern that windows would decrease safety and that the steam could lead to graffiti. Um, I would just encourage this commission to consider uh another nearby structure. So, that is the V3 Center located along Plymouth Avenue. They have a pool on the first floor um right along Plymouth Avenue which as we know is a highly trafficked street which is entirely windowed um including they have women-only swim nights. Um, people feel very safe and comfortable going to this facility. They have shades that they bring down so that women can go there and swim at women's only nights. [28:45] **Evelyn Carbry (Public Speaker)**: As well as I have been there several times including last week when it was minus 20. And yes, the windows were entirely covered with steam and I can safely say that there was no body that came along and tried to do graffiti with the steam. Um, I realize that the Bath House has stated a long-term commitment to this location. However, um given plans to open similar businesses such as the Watershed Spa at 250 North Third Avenue later this year, as well as recent closures of nearby businesses such as the North Loop Galley and Rumble Fitness, I'm not convinced of the long-term viability of this business, and I like my neighbors do not want any building, especially a vacant building without first-floor windows in our community. Thank you. [29:22] **President Chris Meyer**: Next, we have Lauren Carish. [29:26] **Lauren Carish (Public Speaker)**: Carish, nice job. Hi everyone. I'm Lauren Carish. I'm the HOA president at Herschel Lofts, the one that she just talked about. Um, I've been in contact with many of the residents as well as we had a formal uh meeting with many of the residents in the building to talk about the concerns. Our primary concern is the request of the variance of the lack of the windows along the street-facing facades. [30:00] **Lauren Carish (Public Speaker)**: For safety, I would like to counter what Michael was saying: that as a female walking along the streets at night, having some sort of reflection, having windows allows for safety to be able to see. You can sometimes see the people behind you. It allows for um it just allows for more feeling that more eyes are on the streets. Street-facing facade windows provide visibility and reflection which allow pedestrians to be more aware of their surroundings and see who may be approaching them from behind. [30:40] **Lauren Carish (Public Speaker)**: A long blank wall removes a layer of uh passive safety. While lighting and cameras which they had stated during the North Loop planning zoning meeting was that they would have ample lighting and lots of cameras—um, you know, we live in the city and in the North Loop, we've had cameras that catch crime, but the police always say, "Unless you know who this person is, this videotape really doesn't do anything." Um, so that doesn't really help. [31:10] **Lauren Carish (Public Speaker)**: There are also aesthetic and neighborhood character concerns like not having the windows, especially if you're going to turn when you turn a street into a major street um when the light rail plans to go in on 10th Street. You know, this is a street that people are going to be walking down constantly, driving past constantly. Um, and I think the view looks so beautiful from up above when you kind of have that aerial view with the pool and everything, but really when you're on that ground level, you're really only seeing a brick wall. And it's nice that they can have greenery, but we all live in Minnesota and let's be honest, nothing green is growing right now. So, it's going to be just a brick wall. So, really appreciate your time and uh thank you for this consideration. [31:40] **President Chris Meyer**: Thank you. Next we have... Michael already spoke? Oh, okay. So, several of these are for the Bath House. We had Travis. That was one. Um, how about Rachel? Rachel Carpino. [31:56] **Rachel Carpino (Public Speaker)**: Hi. Um, I'm Rachel Carpino. I also live in Herschel Lofts. Um, I obviously we're talking about the windows. Um, my main concern is this is just um... I guess my main concern actually is that I have friends in Brooklyn who have been to the Bath House and there has been a lot of issues with mold and other things. There are pictures of it online. There are articles about it. Um, I don't know how I feel about that considering it will be attached to our 100-year-old building and if we get mold on that, that's going to be a big issue. [32:45] **Rachel Carpino (Public Speaker)**: The other issue to me is North Loop um seems to be lately overrun with a lot of corporate uh places, not local, right? Um, which we have now two puttery places. We have a bar for darts. Um, and they seem to be consistently going out of business, right? Like they're really expensive. Um, in Brooklyn to go to this Bath House, it costs like $225 for a monthly membership. You can only go five times. If you want to go more, you got to pay more money. [33:30] **Rachel Carpino (Public Speaker)**: Um, we're already getting HOA fees out the roof uh our condo buildings in North Loop. I don't see it being a viable option for people to really go consistently and so I do think it will eventually fail. Um, I would also like to mention, this is as an aside, it seems on their website, they do talk about how they use... they mine Bitcoin um, and they use the heat from that to heat the pools and so it's just another layer of oddness that I would like to mention and it is on the Bath House website. Um, so I don't feel great about it. It just gives me a weird icky vibe is what I would say. So that's I guess all I have. Thanks. [34:10] **Devon Brown (Public Speaker)**: Thank you for allowing me to speak tonight. My name is Devon Brown and I live in the Fowl neighborhood. Um, as a bodyworker for 11 years and a former educator at the Aveda Institute, I both work in and personally seek out these environments. I've spent most of my 20s in traditional banyas in Bergen County. Um, I've rented out the Watershed. I've flown to Atlanta specifically to visit Korean spas because facilities like that just don't exist yet in Minneapolis. [34:50] **Devon Brown (Public Speaker)**: And I've never seen a facility like this with windows um that give public access um to people partaking in the activities within. Um, what excites me most about the Bath House though is that it is community-centered and it's not built on exclusivity and solely on membership. They do have a day pass option. Um, healing modalities should be available to people when they need them and not restricted by status, income level, or scarcity. Um, regarding the privacy, bath house culture is deeply rooted in respect and boundaries. [35:30] **Devon Brown (Public Speaker)**: These are spaces designed for restoration and not display. People come to regulate their nervous systems, recover from stress and injury, and reconnect with themselves and not to be viewed by passerbys. Uh, for that reason, I strongly support the request for the variance in the window ordinance. Transparency to the street is valuable for many types of businesses, but in a bath house setting, privacy is just not a preference. Privacy is fundamental to the purpose of this space. Uh, reduced visual stimulation, what we might think of as gentle sensory deprivation, helps the body shift into parasympathetic nervous system state where healing and digestion and recovery can occur. Lower light levels and a sense of enclosure allow the nervous system to downshift from vigilance to restoration and that's part of the therapeutic function of the environment. Thank you. [36:16] **President Chris Meyer**: Thank you. That was everyone who signed up. Did anyone else want to speak today? Anyone? Last chance. All right, commissioners, were there any questions that people had before we close the public hearing? All right, I will close the public hearing. [36:34] **Commissioner Jones**: Question for staff? Is that acceptable? Andrew... Should the tenant not renew the lease at some point in the future? My understanding is that if this passes today without the window requirement, there is no real way for planning to require that the windows be installed in the future. Is that correct? [36:50] **Andrew Liska (City Planner)**: That's correct. [36:51] **Commissioner Jones**: Thank you. [36:52] **President Chris Meyer**: Um, Andrew, like um in regard to the proposal to have the removable panels, even though we couldn't enforce that they actually remove the panels, um do you feel if that was a condition that the staff would be able to verify that they're removable? Like we haven't done something like that before. So, I wanted to ask about that. [37:15] **Andrew Liska (City Planner)**: I would imagine we could work with CPED (Community Planning and Economic Development) plan review in something like that. [37:18] **President Chris Meyer**: Okay. All right. Commissioners, what are your thoughts? I do want to clarify something that was, you know, in the letters that were sent to us and in in the public testimony—that there's no variance being requested here. Um, what's being requested is alternative compliance. Um, technical difference, but it does have consequences. Like, um, there's no need for any finding of practical difficulty or any of those things. Um, the Planning Commission today can uh just choose to approve or deny the requested alternative compliance. Commissioner Shepard? [38:00] **Commissioner Shepard**: I do have some thoughts. The purpose of a zoning ordinance is that the good of the community supersedes the good of one individual business on it, particularly since no businesses are permanent. So I I find that kind of a difficult bridge to cross. There are many ways to introduce glass glazing in a building that are not necessarily transparent to light or vision. And the only reason I've heard that that was not done is because you didn't think it looked as good as brick. Maybe so. But we're not an architectural review board. But I would find it actually not possible for myself to accept a blank facade constructing a blank facade on 8th and Third... those are my views on it. [38:46] **President Chris Meyer**: Okay. So that would be for the staff recommendation then and to deny the alternative compliance. Other commissioners? I guess where I'm at, um, so I definitely think in general window requirements are important um to have eyes on the street. I definitely think that's a safety improving thing in general. I I do see the argument for an exception for this type of use, and I think it's a rare enough type of use that I I could go with it. I do hear the concerns that if this closed, then this um windowless facade would would pass on to the the next owner and that um you know I wish we had a way to require that if that happened that they'd be required to add windows. Um, but I I think I would probably be on the side of granting the alternative compliance in this case. Um, other commissioners? Well, Commissioner Shepard, if you'd like to make a motion to adopt the staff recommendation, I think we can do that first. [40:02] **Commissioner Shepard**: So moved. I I would move passage of this with the staff requirement uh as stated in 1 through 7. [40:04] **President Chris Meyer**: Okay. Is there a second to that? [40:10] **Vice President Baxley**: Second. [40:12] **President Chris Meyer**: All right. Any other commissioners have any thoughts on this? So to clarify for everyone, the staff recommendation is to deny the alternative compliance for the windows. All right, seeing no further comments, uh, clerk, please call the roll. [40:34] **City Clerk Staff**: Commissioner Garcia? [40:36] **Commissioner Garcia**: Aye. [40:38] **City Clerk Staff**: Commissioner Gordon? [40:40] **Commissioner Gordon**: Aye. [40:41] **City Clerk Staff**: Jones? [40:42] **Commissioner Jones**: Aye. [40:43] **City Clerk Staff**: Shepard? [40:44] **Commissioner Shepard**: Aye. [40:45] **City Clerk Staff**: Wagner? [40:46] **Commissioner Wagner**: Aye. [40:47] **City Clerk Staff**: Vice President Baxley? [40:49] **Vice President Baxley**: Aye. [40:50] **City Clerk Staff**: And President Meyer? [40:52] **President Chris Meyer**: No. [40:53] **City Clerk Staff**: There are six ayes and one nay. [40:57] **President Chris Meyer**: That is adopted. So good luck with your project and thank you everyone for coming. Our last item uh for today will be to do nominations for executive offices. Um, so let's see what the script is here. So, we have three offices. We've got um the president, vice president, and secretary. And we'll just be taking the nominations for today. Um, the actual vote would happen at our next meeting. Um, so, would anyone like to make nominations for the role of president? [41:35] **Commissioner Gordon**: I nominate Chris Meyer. [41:37] **President Chris Meyer**: I accept. Thank you. Um, would anyone like to make a nomination for the role of vice president? [41:40] **Commissioner Wagner**: Can I nominate Commissioner Baxley? [41:48] **Vice President Baxley**: I don't actually want it. [41:55] **President Chris Meyer**: You don't? I thought you did. I thought that was something you were interested in and you were... [42:01] **Vice President Baxley**: Maybe next year. [42:04] **President Chris Meyer**: Tom, is that something you'd be interested? I mean, I've done it, so I think... [42:08] **Commissioner Wagner**: Yeah, I I've thought about it. Um, I do attend most of the committee of the whole meetings, so um I would be happy to to step in and help out. Um, I do feel fairly comfortable having been on the board now for two years, so um I'd be open to it. [42:23] **President Chris Meyer**: Okay. I'm going to nominate Commissioner Wagner. And how about for Secretary? Well, who hasn't done it? Um, I'm going to nominate Commissioner Jones for Secretary. [42:40] **Commissioner Jones**: I will just add a quick note. I was secretary last year and I did not do a single thing for the entire year. [42:45] **President Chris Meyer**: So, um the role of the secretary is typically that you sign all of the documents that come through and need to be recorded at Hennepin County. Um, I think though because we had Commissioner Baxley's electronic signature on file, we just kept using that last year. Um, which was fine because as uh in the vice president role that was also acceptable. Um, so that would be the main responsibility of secretary and then also in the event that the president and vice president would not be able to chair a meeting then you would step into that role. Um, okay, I'll work with you to get your electronic signature and we will retire Commissioner Baxley. We still have to have the actual vote. All right. Were there any other nominations for any of the offices? All right. Seeing none, we'll close those nominations. All right. Uh, so that concludes our business. Uh, we have no committee of the whole um for this week. [43:44] **President Chris Meyer**: Um, I don't know if we're going to keep doing those. It's been a while since we had one. Um, is this the right date? Okay. You've got two different dates on here. You've got the 17th and the 19th on here. So the 17th, right? [44:02] **Andrew Liska (City Planner)**: Our next regular meeting will be on Tuesday the 17th because Monday that week is President's Day. [44:10] **President Chris Meyer**: Okay. All right. Are there any other updates from staff or commissioners? All right. Seeing none, we are adjourned. Can you still celebrate?