used I I see some apparently we're on what is MCS hereby call to order the Roseville city council meeting for Monday November 27th 2023 Mr city manager would you call the role please council member Aton here council member Graff here council member St here council member shorter here here mayor Ro here uh and with us at the day we have our City attorney Rachel Tierney who's on my right at the end of the day and uh the other end of the dayas is our city manager Pat trudan Uh and we'll also have other staff and guests participating in the meeting and they'll be introduced as uh those agenda items come up uh we would ask if you have a cell phone to be sure to silence it or otherwise assure that it doesn't disrupt the meeting this evening uh we also want to make folks know uh aware that there is information uh about the meeting available to the public on the back table underneath the clock in the back of the room uh there are multiple copies of tonight's agenda uh as well as one copy of all of the materials which is in a three- in binder which is available for your uh use if you need to refer to that during the course of the meeting um we've got a number of public hearings tonight and so we'll go through the process for uh what's involved and what the sort of the rules of the road for a public hearing are uh as we get into that but uh uh that should give us at least an introduction uh this evening as to what's uh going on and we don't have any remote participants this evening so we shouldn't have to provide the procedures for that so with that we'll ask folks to stand if they're able for the Pledge of Allegiance I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic from which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all all right next on our agenda then is approval of tonight's agenda uh this is an opportunity to check with our staff as usual to see if there are any changes that staff is requesting to the agenda as it's been presented this evening there's no changes by staff Mr Mayor all right thank you Mr Tron uh check also with the council members are there any changes that council members would like to make to tonight's agenda or any items in section 10 uh that council members would like removed from that section for separate consideration all right does not appear to be the case um for most of you that are here this evening uh various agenda items will come up and you'll have an opportunity to speaker ask questions as those items come up but we also do have a section at the end of our agenda uh starting at the bottom of the first page and continuing I believe onto the second page uh it's section 10 which is called the consent agenda this is a number of items that are typically considered fairly administrative and usually aren't uh theoretically terribly controversial and so they're grouped together as a single action at the end of the meeting after we've uh gone through all the rest of our business however I do want to check at the beginning of each meeting just to make sure if there is somebody here that wishes to either make a comment or ask a question about one of the items in section 10 at the end of the agenda the consent agenda you can let us know now and we can actually move that item earlier in the meeting so that you can uh be able to participate on that item without having to wait to the very end so just double check with folks if anyone is here for an item in section 10 of tonight's agenda once again starting on the bottom bottom of the first page and continuing on to the second page items 10 a through 10h uh and if you're not here for one of those that's okay but we do want to like I said check at the start of the meeting if there is anyone here for one of those items if you just let us know at this time and we'll make sure and consider that item separately is there anyone here for an item in section 10 of tonight's agenda that does not include the budget and tax hearing it does not include the Youth Hockey Association uh gambling law it does not include the public hearings about various um um easement vacations on various rights of way um and it does not include um the liquor license renewals just for the example of a few things that people might be here for I don't see anybody seeking recognition to be uh par to ask a question or comment on on item in section 10 so on that basis and with no changes from a staff or Council perspective and uh a motion to approve appr the agenda as presented would be in order so moved second it's been moved by council member shorter second by council member St to approve the agenda as presented for this meeting uh any discussion on that motion seeing none all those in favor signify by saying I I I opposed that passes unanimously we have our agenda for this evening that brings us to our first opportunity for public comment this evening uh we will have uh public comment opportunities as we take up agenda items but at the start of each meeting we also do provide an opportunity for public comment uh on a general basis not related to the agenda items this evening it might be something that's of general city business uh related to or something that's of interest to people in the community more broadly but not once again on tonight's agenda um and as I said we'll have an opportunity for public comment on agenda items as they come up but with that uh just a quick uh synopsis of the rules of the road for public comment we do by a council rule have a three minute time limit per speaker uh and I try to enforce that uh uh generously and gently uh but also then we want you to start your comments with your name and street or address address comments or questions to the city council uh and uh they'll be taken into account by the council if there is an answer that needs to be done uh or in the case of the general comment if there's a response that may be required we may have to follow up after the meeting uh we don't always have the answer right during the public comment with that I see we have a member of the public here for general public comment this evening and so I'll recognize Mr Hat Roger Jr Wagner place in Rosell Minnesota uh I just have a quick question and I make going to make it hypothetical so you didn't have to move anything from the consent agenda if a tenant at your strip mall to the north that the city owns doesn't pay their City what utility bill and then you send it to Ramsey County and put on the property taxes does the city then actually end up paying the water bill or is there some other procedure you have for that we can follow up on that and that may come up during our discussion about the uh certifying the water bills too so stay tun okay thank you all right thank you for your question hello hi good evening mayor R and City Council Members thank you so much for giving us the opportunity to speak tonight my name is Karen zakovich I'm a resident at 1160 Josephine Road um you may be aware that we were subjected to an extensive gas line replacement project in our neighborhood this fall um needless to say that hasn't gone well up until this point um on onor about September 20th we noticed that um we have two brick and granite staircases that go up each side of our home and um there was fluorescent paint that was sprayed on the granite and brick um I brought that to the attention of Tyler vanus who is our contact at XL Energy um and he assured me that those spots would remove be easily removed with upcoming rainfall I can assure you that has not been the case um I have been in touch with Tyler vanck at EXL energy on numerous occasions expressing Our concern um only to be met with the same response we're going to take care of at the end of the project we're at the end of the project um those paint spots are honestly our biggest concern however many neighbors have expressed um frustration with the state that their yards have been left in at this time um I did talk to Katie at the city council about a week ago she referred me to Jesse who was the head of Public Works and I spoke to him um at length kind of about our concerns especially with the paint and the bare areas of dirt that were going to be left for the fall and winter and the erosion and things like that that could happen um I don't know who followed up with that exactly but a couple days later a water truck showed up at our house and sprayed the dirt areas with water and then kind of this Green Seed mixture it sounds like a lovely sort of response to what we had been faced with however now our driveway and two vehicles that were parked in the driveway were full of Green Seed spray as well um as of late we've reached out to Tyler again my husband on one occasion and haven't been able to get in touch with him to find any resolution um I did get a hold of Tyler today it it it really is just now a mute point about this paint on our steps um and you know he says oh well I thought someone was going to follow up with that the week before Thanksgiving gosh I didn't know that hadn't happened so it's kind of just this runaround and to give you kind of a backstory of that is we just purchased our home in August and the member or the people that lived there before us had lived there for about 40 years I have paperwork that can sustain the fact that this project on both sides of our house with the granite and brick steps we're in excess of $60,000 when they were done 20 years ago so my real concern is how is this going to get taken care of how is this going to be made right um and how is it going to be put back to its original condition that's going to match both sides of our home and then um we have a member in our community too who emails the entire neighborhood and kind of just keeps everybody a breast of what's going on and I reached out to her and just asked you know hey we can't be the only ones that are really frustrated with how this project went so she was kind enough to send out an email to all those residents and I did hear back from a person who lives at 1180 Josephine I have permission to share pictures of their property and their concerns as well they had a giant water truck that drove through their front yard and as possibly possibly also caused extensive damage to their sprinkler system um so yeah it's just really disappointing um how this has all kind of been left and in talking to Jesse at the Public Works he also said that the intent was to keep this permit open through at least next spring or summer um knowing that you know this time of year it's hard to put things back to their rightful spot and the way they were kind of thing but I guess I'm just I'm I'm really hoping that that's true and that someone within the city council or within the city can follow up with Exel and just make our yards right again and make our property right again I mean we've really suffered probably tens of thousands of dollars worth of damage just to our home alone and I'm not here just on behalf of myself and my husband I'm here on on on behalf of our neighbors too sure we really take pride in our houses y I'm going to have to stop there we did bump up tough against that that's all right uh I think what we'll do though is make sure that we follow up with our staff to see that we can can uh make sure we're after EXL and their probably their contractors to to make sure that they follow through on their their requirements on that so and I do have some pictures too feel free to leave those with Mr Tron and then we'll make sure we can all get those thank you so much on behalf of me and our neighbors we appreciate your service to our community greatly thank you for being here thank you and certainly we're sorry you're going through that great is there anyone else uh here this evening for general public comment uh not specifically related to an agenda item this evening with that then I'll close the opportunity for general public comment uh and we'll go ahead and move into our business items our first business item this evening is our annual hearing on the proposed 2024 City budget uh and tax levy and we sort of lump in with that also our um utility rates and everything else that's that's affected by our budget um and so uh what will happen this evening we have our fin director uh Michelle Petri with us and uh there'll be a presentation about sort of the general information about the budget and then we'll have an opportunity for members of the public to uh weigh in uh following the rules of public comment that I just went through earlier in the meeting and we can reiterate those again uh and then the city council is not taking action this evening as far as making decisions about the budget or the tax levy uh we're receiving your comments this evening uh and then uh we may have information we request or want followed up either based your comments are our own uh interests uh with staff and then ultimately uh the STA the city uh Council will take action on all these matters at next Monday's meeting uh that gives us an opportunity to have a few days to uh respond to or deal with any inquiries uh and then try to make sure by the time we get to next Monday we're able to have all the information we need to make our final decision so certainly if you're here this evening for the budget uh this isn't the last meeting about the budget you may want to uh also uh either come or tune in to next week's meeting uh for the for the ultimate decision- making with that I believe I'll turn it over to miss Petri and uh to begin the presentation this evening related to the budget and tax levy thank you mayor um we have a brief presentation before you open the public hearing um the purpose of the budget hearing is to provide information on the 2024 budget and tax levy and utility rate impacts and to provide citizens an opportunity to express their views on these impacts the budget process began with three areas of discussion whether there was a desire for changes in existing programs or service levels was there a need to establish new programs or initiatives and the acceptable level of property tax and fee impacts on homeowners we we started the budget process way back in March by reviewing available cash Reserve levels we discussed legislative impacts and tax base changes in June the overall tax base for Roseville grew six six there back one um 6.65% and the median valued single family home grew by 4.35% this is a lower percentage increase than we saw in the 2023 budget process in July we had an overview of the capital Improvement plan which is a large part of the budget the city manager presented his recommended budget in tax levy in August the preliminary budget and tax levy were adopted in September and at that point in time the city's tax levy increase was 8.99% and the Eda Lev Levy was presented and since then we've reduced the Eda Levy by 133% in November we reviewed the draft utility rates and fee schedules the prelim AR 2024 budget is $ 69.6 million this is an increase of approximately $8.3 million the increase is due to inflationary cost increases Capital project increases and Personnel cost increases the non-property tax revenues support the budget by 58.6 % the levy proposed is 28 m785 280 which is an increase of 2,373 896 or 8.99% the large changes or what accounts for the changes in the tax levy are Personnel compensation adjustments related to the class and compensation study there was reclassification of personnel which includes increasing some FTE um the funding for the firefighters the six fighter fighters that we put on two two years ago use utilizing Federal safer Grant dollars um has now come on and the full 600 is 600,000 is shown here but 400,000 is shown as a reduction in the capital Levy because over the course of the last two years we had been increasing the levy so we didn't bring the full 600,000 onto the levy in one year in addition the inflationary costs were 744 th000 approximately so the tax Levy covers operations capital and Debt Service and Debt Service increased slightly and that's a function of what we have scheduled for principal and interest payments the capital Levy was reduced again 400,000 of that was related to the safer Grant and that was moved up into operations and then we identified three capital funds that could reduce their Levy in order to offset increases in the operating Levy services that are covered by the city's property tax dollar 32% of the property taxes go to fund Police Department 16% funds the fire department 20% goes to Parks and Recreation 18% covers Public Works and facilities and 14% goes to General government again property tax is not the only ta Revenue source that we have that supports these functions property valuations most of you received your preliminary property tax statements last week and what you will notice perhaps is that your assessed valuation increased the Ramsey County assessor's office is responsible for determining the valuation of all properties residential apartment commercial and Industrial valuation notices are sent out in mid-march to all Property Owners which show estimated values for 2024 um which is basically when the assessor has submitted their valuations into Ramsey County Property Tax Department in November like I said the uh proposed property tax statements were mailed out um using those valuations and using the preliminary levies that were set in September by the county City City School District and other special taxing districts concerns or questions about valuations can be directed to the assessor's office and I've noted the phone number there General appeals should occur in April of the Year prior to the payable year but the assessor can also provide data to support why an individual property may have gone up for 202 for the median valued home is $349,900 the median value in 23 was $335,500 state of Minnesota has n a number of property tax rebate programs um more information can be found at the Minnesota Department of revenues website and on Rams the County property tax website the 2023 legislative actions did drop one in the past to qualify for for homeowners to qualify for the special refund your property tax had to increase by 12% or more the legislature dropped that to 6% so more people may qualify if their property changed drastically which would impact their tax bill some utility rate impact items as we also do provide the utility rate estimates at this point in time we have continued investment in infrastructure replacement or extending the life expectancy of the infrastructure we are implementing the second year of the updated utility rate study which was done by Ellers on the Storm drainage water and sanitary sewer funds as a reminder St Paul Regional water cost increased in 2024 as in 2023 by 95% mcea mcees cost which is in the sanitary sewer fund for Roseville our cost increased 12.5% this is the third year of the new contract for recycling um which resulted in increases in the recycling rates and the council has continued to approve small increases to start building reserves to purchase carts at the end of this contract a brief overview um and of note there was a question when we discussed the utility rate so I've got two Alternatives here um The Proposal which has water increases going up by 8% sanitary sewer is up 2% um and then I provide an alternative that shows the residential sewer at 0% if we make no changes or deviation from the the utility rate study recommendations the quarterly increase for all Utility Services would be $15.25 that breaks down to $58 per month or $61 per year if we were to provide relief on the sanitary sewer side for residential itial properties both in the base fee and the usage fee the total quarterly increase would be $13.7 or $4.50 per month and 5484 per year um we are hoping to get feedback tonight as to which option the council would consider or would like to consider um so we can present um a final utility recommendation next week so what's the budget impact on a single family residential home property taxes for the city would increase by $7.98 per month the Eda would go down by 21 cents per month month utility rates at the proposed ERS rates would go up $58 so the net estimated increase per month would be $12.85 and over the course of the year that would be $154 2016 and this is based on a residential property again at the median value of $34 99 that uses approximately 4,000 gallons of water per month for comparison purposes last year we had a 6% increase in the total City Levy which resulted in a higher monthly change than the current proposed budget um between the city tax the Eda tax and the utility rates the change from 22 to 23 was 1345 and as you can see the change between 23 and 24 is $12.85 and for some interesting information um because we do always B the budget presentation on the median valued home you can see that from 2022 to 20124 the median value at home has increased by over $50,000 with that are there any questions all right thank you Miss Petri questions from the council for staff oh Mr trean just I'm sorry uh not a question but uh just a clarification um she mentioned at the beginning but the Eda Levy has been slightly reduced by $13,000 from what was passed in the not to exceed so that number of 21 cents per month reflects that new adjusted number so I just want to make it very clear because it's not really highlighted here in the agreement so we did lower the Eda Levy by $133,000 from what was approved in September okay and I was just going to say that's the what's being proposed by staff cor because the Eda or the council has not taken action on that recommendation okay yeah right and I was just going to clarify maybe for members of the public also a little bit about how how this all works and I hope I can do it about a reasonable amount of time um so a lot of decision makers have a an impact on your property tax bill that you as an individual property owner whether you're a business or a residence pay um number one is the state legislature sets kind of the rules of the road for everybody to follow um and they say uh things like you know what types of classes of property there are and and how those taxes are calculated so commercial properties of some types have certain ways of calculating their tax uh Residential Properties below a certain value have another way of calculating their tax and then higher value Residential Properties have another way and there's probably about 20 or 30 other ways but that's all set by the legislature and doesn't usually doesn't change too often um then there is the uh work that as what's mentioned by Miss Petri that the Assessor does each year to adjust property values uh based on their analysis of the marketplace and what's going on uh locally to the properties that are being taxed and uh and in fact I think the assessor tries to inperson visit each property in the county once every so many years uh just to kind of verify some of the mathematical calculations that they do um so those are a couple of the non City of Roseville actors in this process um and what tax you pay on your property is is very directly related to what your valuation is from the county assessor's office um then the other piece of it is the decisions that the City of Roseville makes along with the school districts uh along with the county itself because we're all using property tax based on state law as one of our major funding sources um and the way it works for the property tax for the city tax is that and for other entities is that we we determine our budget and we figure out uh what um other sources of revenue will be covering those costs and what costs can be reduced and what has to go up and things like that and in the end kind of whatever is left to pay uh based on the budget is what um is paid for by the property tax so a big chunk of our budget as was mentioned by Miss Petri almost 60% is not paid by the property tax uh probably a huge portion of that is paid by the utility fees uh for your water and sewer and recycling uh and storm water and things like that which which are handled on the uh on the billing of that uh and usually for the most part the fees that you pay especially for your usage of water uh is primarily we're trying to essentially pass through our costs that we get charged by the city of St Paul in the case of water and by the Met Council in the case of processing the sewer um we do provide some incentives in the water billing to uh encourage people to use less water uh so the more you use the higher you'll pay uh but that's generally how that's set up so back to the property taxes um the the way it works is that the city does all those calculations we figure out the the gross amount of property tax that we would have to collect in order to fill the gap between what we want to spend on the budget and what we've got in terms of other revenues and then we certify that amount to the county and the county then takes um all the values in the City of Roseville and adds them up based on what the assess are determined they know our total uh tax that we are asking them to collect and essentially with a few other factors that I won't get into because they're very technical and complicated they take the total amount we want and divide it by the total amount of property value in the county and it comes up with the percentage and then they apply that percentage based on the formulas that the state has determined to each property based on the value that you're uh assessed at to determine what your actual tax is so when U Miss Petri and we talk about the median property in Roseville we're talking about the median single family home home there are of course other types of properties certainly commercial industrial and other types of Residential Properties um but the vast majority of homes in Roseville are single family homes and and so taking the average single family value seems like one reasonable way to to sort of assess what the impact is um but of course depending on what happens to your individual property based on the assessed value and where you sit in the state's system of How It's calculated that can have an impact on what you're ultimately being asked to pay so um what we're asking for comment on this evening primarily is our budget that we're proposing how much we want to spend uh and then also that tax amount uh that we're uh wanting to collect to uh pay for what we're spending so hopefully hopefully that helps and hasn't been too long and and too cumbersome to sit through uh but like I said primarily what we want to do is hear from uh the residents and taxpayers this evening in terms of that uh that this tax hearing so unless there are other questions or information from the council we any rebuttal from Miss Petri of anything I got wrong um this is our time for a public comment on the proposed 2024 budget and tax levy um and once again just to review for folks who may have come in after the start of the meeting uh the process for public comment by city council rule is that we have a three minute time limit per speaker we ask that you begin your comment or question with your name and either your address or your street name um and then uh you've got your three minutes to make your comments and or ask questions to the council uh please direct the comments or questions to us uh if we need to respond to questions we'll sort of accumulate the questions on a list over the course of the comments and then Circle back at the end to provide answers uh if they're technical we can answer them usually fairly easily if they're more philosophical that may have to come out during our Council deliberation on our our ultimate decisions um and then uh the other thing is um that everybody gets kind of one chance to speak per agenda item uh if you can't put all of your comments into your three-minute period and you happen to have them written down uh you can give a copy to Mr trudon and he can make sure that the city council uh all gets that uh and then you can certainly also follow up uh by email or other means to contact the city council if you're not able to to uh within your three minute time limit get everything uh that you need to say said so with that the other thing I'll say is that we do have the two microphones and the two chairs uh and so if there are a lot of people that wish to speak uh we can have one person speaking and the next speaker sitting at the other microphone and ready to go uh so that will kind of keep things moving and if you want to be the next person after that you can even sit in the front row and sort of be ready to to get up to one of the two speakers seats um you don't have to uh move or adjust the microphone at all uh and if you do have a name that may not be obvious how to spell uh we want to make sure we get it right in the record uh so once you're finished with your comment or question you can step off to the side there is a clipboard there and you can write your name uh just to make sure we get the spelling correct and that can happen sort of off to the side while the next person is speaking so we kind of keep things moving hopefully in an efficient manner uh anything else I forgot about the the rules of the road sounds all right okay well uh assuming you can remember what the first thing was that I said that's sorry that it was so much stuff here uh we we'll be happy to open it up now for our official hearing on the budget and tax levy and welcome you to uh come up and uh speak to the city council so feel free uh to have a seat at one of the two microphones and and provide your input and I can say all of this is going to apply to our other hearings too so I don't have to repeat myself now right hey Roger H Junior Wagner please it seems like consensus consensus is that inflation next year will be about 2 and a half% there's the uh the rate that you use to figure the budget around that or that's one question and then U did you adjust the budget so that when we have a really large snowfall that the plows can move 24 hours a day or are we going to have long periods of time when they can't move and the roads become impassable and then I have a question about claims since you don't budget for claims you don't have a fund for claims where does the money come from to pay for claims and it would be nice if the department heads and the city manager and assist assistant city manager did not have their wages increased next year by a percentage greater than what their employees below them they're what they're because it looks like they're going to get about 9% increase but just like tonight you're showing the firemen get only a 4% Plus 3% and it doesn't always look good when the bosses get bigger increases than the people underneath them so it maybe could phase in the department heads and the assistant manager and managers over two years or something so that their percentage increase is not greater than the people working for them and that's everything so thank you thank you Mr s thank you is there anyone else from the public who wish to speak to the proposed 2024 uh budget or tax levy or for that matter of utility fees right van I live on uh oops you're you're going have to wait wait till they have a seat so we can make sure yeah V I live on County Road C2 West and my property CH uh property valuation went up 40,000 and my questions are similar to what the gentleman before me was asking um how do you justify a 9% increase in my property valuation when the inflation rate is less than 3% can you answer that question we can follow up with you on that any other questions or comments um yeah and again as for Roseville uh budget uh my property tax went from 1,400 to 1600 to 12 and a half% increase and again I'm wondering why did it go up over 12% if the inflation rate is only 3% okay that those are my questions you have any answers we'll uh see if there are other questions and then we'll follow up at the end of the public comment here all right do I feel this just uh maybe write your name so that we've got the spelling from the rec is there anyone else who wishes to speak to the proposed budget and tax levy we've got the other microphone available all right doesn't appear to be the case so we'll go ahead and close the public hearing and public comment opportunity for the 2024 budget and tax levy and would note that we will as I said be taking this up at our next meeting on next Monday evening uh and certainly if uh you have comments or questions at that time related to the budget feel free to bring them in at that point as well certainly we're not uh closed to hearing from the public at any of our discussions about these matters uh as to the question that the gentleman had and it looks like he may have left the room but we'll go ahead and try to provide some answers and miss petrick you may have to help out on some of these things um I I can say on the property values uh and what Ramsey County does in terms of how much they change an individual property value and that doesn't necessarily relate specifically to the inflation rate the inflation rate is a is a federal government calculation based on a sort of what they call a market basket of goods and they look at how much those those cost and changes in those costs over time and that's what they do to calculate the inflation rate housing is a factor in it but they can also depending on which number you look at exclude housing as well and I'm not 100% sure which number is being talked about but regardless of that I don't think there's any question that as people have looked at the marketplace both for rental as well as for uh the the cost of purchasing a home uh I don't think there's any question that the general trend has been fairly significantly upward so that's why there isn't necessarily a direct correlation between property value changes especially your individual property and what the generalized inflation rate is Miss Petri correct um again the county assessor establishes the assessed valuation for every single property so an individual residential property may only see a 1% increase but other properties may see a 12 13 14% increase we use the average and again the total value all property within the City of Roseville went up 6.99% we use averages at average residential valuation because again properties are going to change at different rates and the assessor may be able to provide the comparables to what caused an individual property to increase they do come around every five years to examine properties and they do ask a number of questions with regard to any changes with in your house have you added stuff to your house have you removed rooms you know all these things go into factoring in how they determine the valuation they also look at comparable sales and sales valuations over the course of the last few years have been I I've never seen a housing market quite like this where prices have been exceeding what they were posted for that's now filtering in to the valuations over the last two years in those comparable sales okay thank you I think that that probably answers that one as to the the snowplowing uh I don't believe we've added anything into the budget for uh being able to to completely plow the city within or to operate over a 24-hour period rather than having the shift operations now sometimes depending on the event we may still use overtime there are still things that we do to try to make sure that we're maintaining the safety of our roads uh but we have not budgeted for uh a 24-hour plowing operation as the norm that's correct okay right uh as to claims I believe that I don't know that that's insurance claims because certainly were insured through the league of Minnesota City's Insurance trust and they would be handling any insurance claims but we may be sort of self-insured for some things this is a question that has come up before what we budget is for average Insurance costs we have a riskmanagement fund where we account for all claims what we budget is an average of those claims whether it be work comp or property and liability those Insurance charges are within every Department budget and the the funding comes from the Departments into the risk fund where the claims are paid out so if we have a a tendency towards more claims history or higher claims in the past history that will affect the average that we use and we might budget a little more in in the years corre but we haven't changed the insurance number in five years okay okay um and then um I believe the percent increase for sort of the management I think I think that's referring to the changes in the classification and compensation study uh because I because I believe generally speaking for instance cost of living is the same for each class of employees and for all nonunion employees it would be a a fixed amount for everybody for our Union employees it's based on the contracts and so whatever the contract is is what the uh the budgeted Cola would be for those um so I believe um there there may be some differential as it relates to the total amount or the percent change um for certain classifications within the classification and compensation study but that may be because of sort of what the starting point of those is as opposed to other factors yes uh Mr Mayor if I could that's correct um just generally speaking we're um I remember at 8% below the market minimums and 10% below the maximums across the board each position does vary uh a little bit so department heads just like other uh employ employees they going to see different results depending on where they started off and how the classification system came forward and indicated where they were in the market and then then also another variable is where they're currently in the current system and where they would potentially move to so it's really across the board as far as affecting people differently and that is just an outcome of us doing this classification and compensation study especially after a decade when we're so far behind so um you know there is some variability on it but all in all we're trying to pay at Market uh for all of our employees including department heads all right thank you um I think that covers the oh and just in terms of for General purchase type of things supplies um our inflation for that is probably somewhat comparable with the 2 and a half to 3% but there's specific things in there like our cost for water purchase from St Paul which is I think 8 or % per year or 6% or whatever it is and then once again the change in the cost with Metropolitan Council for the sewer processing uh and then specific things otherwise that might be in there that might be different percentages are are just based on the specifics of those marketplaces like I know our fuel costs in past years went up quite a bit higher than inflation because fuel costs were going up quite a bit faster um but those are actually I think kind of decreas or increasing less quickly right now as opposed to other things yeah um for St Paul water was 9 and a half% increase um met council's over 12% increase we have various contractual services that increased five to 8% um for non-contracted items we generally use a 3% inflation rate and it just so happens that some of those big percent increase items are also some of the biggest chunks of our budget tens of Millions ofar of impact right I mean not of impact but the number on which that percentage is applying it's a large number yeah yes right anything else from the council at this time uh information we might like to have before next week uh or questions we have for the staff um I think one of the requests I heard in the presentation was any uh guidance from the council as to which approach to use on specifically the sanitary sewer whether to use the the proposed and planned 2% increas or whether to go with the zero uh for the sanitary sewer uh and that's why that impact was differentiated in the report are there thoughts from the Council on that particular item uh council member Scher uh yes thank you so much for putting this together and also putting in the alternative um for the for the um utility increases I you know as I said last meeting on this that I was in favor of trying to keep everything as low as possible in this area considering the increase in um property taxes and everything else so I would be in support of doing the alternative increase because anywhere we could save the uh residents a little money I think we should and just to clarify the alternative increase is a 0% increase no increase but the other one yeah for those right sanitary store right okay uh council member St I would just like to counter with that different question than if we do go with a zero increase for um residents at this time what do you uh predict might be the impact um in 2025 in 2024 yeah in 2024 as we plan for 20125 um the 0% increase in the base and usage fee is roughly $71,000 Less in revenue for 2024 for Residential Properties right and so then we have to make that up I think the question is don't we have to make that up in at some point yeah because the rates continue to be so rather than a small percentage of increase right now are we talking a rather large increase next year then to make up or because the utility rate study called for five years at 2% and then going down to 0% we would just hack on one more year at 2% on the end in five years I just want to make sure we don't have a balloon payment coming at a later point that is much more jarring and shocking to everyone um and again we are going to have an update done to the utility rate study next year but at this point I don't see anything jarring in the sanitary sewer system unless met Council goes crazy with increased costs other thoughts from the Council on the sanitary sewer options and of course we don't have to make our decision tonight it's just staff would like if we can to provide some Direction but certainly I it wouldn't be ridiculously hard to include both options next week too Council mayor shorter oh and I just wanted to um and thank you for um before when you showed us what the um fund balances were I just wanted to point out that that particular fund is very healthy and we do have some reserves built up in that fund already and which I agree that I don't think for this this coming year that we're going to have an issue with staying at suro council member haton for that reason I I would generally support the 0% in this area because I believe that fund is more than healthy really um and we probably wouldn't need to do a tagon increase for the 2025 budget um because it is so far in the good right now so far in the black so I that's why I would generally support that 0% of this time Council gra I would support the 0% for those reasons but also because we are going to have another update next year by ERS on the study and that will give us more information so I would support that for now right and I was going to note that that um one of the things that we do each year is we project out 20 years in the fund and see where the Balan is going and so we'll have a year of 0% to see how that impacts things plus the study and so I think that that can make some sense so uh it sounds like the general direction from the council is to look at the 0 per. okay great and that's an item that we can increase yeah if we want to we can't increase the tax levy beyond what we passed in September correct anything else from the council um for staff to be looking at our questions right thank you very much uh once again appreciate the input from the repu as well as uh the work that is done by the staff each year to put together the budget on a 60 $69 million organization it's not insignificant certainly council member i' just like to comment for the public just so you know the reason that we have the lack of questions is our budget process starts in March and we've seen this many many times so if it it doesn't seem like we have enough questions it's because we've talked it to death so just see never never never no we we we've had at L discussions thank you all right with that uh we're ready for our second uh public hearing this evening uh this is a public hearing to consider uh a bank of um liquor license renewals for 2024 um and I would note we did have a bench handout in relation to that I think there was one additional uh requested renewal added uh sort of just under the wire so we've got that wherever I put my bench hand out um there we go um and with that I think Mr treas are you introducing this item yes uh thank you Mr Mayor this is as you mentioned a public hearing to consider liquor license renewals for 2024 we do have this bench hand out there is one addition Sean we got the paperwork back from the state uh here literally today so we want to include them in this cycle of renewals so we have a variety of liquor licenses that the state allows us to Grant out and for Roseville we are looking for you to take any com on the renewal of seven offsale intoxicating liquor licenses 10 off sale 32 non- intoxicating M Liquor licenses 21 on sale intoxicating liquor licenses 20 on sale 3.2 non- intoxicating Malt Liquor licenses 17 on sale wine licenses four Club liquor licenses four Brewery licenses and one micro disy offsale intoxicating liquor license so it's a whole slew of them that we're looking for approval here uh tonight we I would also note that we do do compliance check twice a year and we do list um the establishments that have uh failed um over this past uh two-year period uh threeyear period um that shows that this for your information that's something you can consider uh whether or not to uh prove it so as I mentioned this is a public hearing so uh we'd welcome any testimony and then at the end we would look for Action by the city council uh if there's no objections to approve all these liquor licenses and with the paperwork down again to the state and uh they can move for forward at the start of the year to uh be uh good uh from the U legal side of it and selling alcohol all right thank you Mr TR are there questions from the city council on the proposed and these are all renewals correct there's no new licenses in here okay so these are all people that have had licenses in the past uh and are seeking an annual renewal essentially great any questions from the council right is there anyone from the public that wishes to comment on the proposed renewals of liquor licenses for the various uh license holders in the city this evening anyone from the public seeing no one then we'll close the public hearing on these renewals uh and we'll proceed to council consideration I believe they can be taken up as a single motion that's correct I move approval of all of the licenses second all right it's been moved by council member etton seconded by council member crof to approve the renewals uh as outlined that includes the addition of chesan uh as was noted by Mr Tron uh discussion on the motion as the maker of the motion Council you as the second council member gra no we we did have the people who have had um non the compliance checks un failed and they were here and we discussed them so I feel comfortable going ahead with all of them right any other discussion on the motion right hearing none all those in favor of approving those renewals signify by saying I I I opposed that passes unanimously and those uh renewals are approved uh that brings us then to our third public hearing this evening uh this is a public hearing involving um resolutions to vacate various uh Street easements and rights of way um and we have our city engineer Stephanie oh my gosh I just lost Smith Smith and it's such a difficult name to remember Stephanie Smith with us this evening to uh present the uh various a that are being proposed uh and then initiate the hearing uh welcome Miss Smith thank you Mr Mayor so today we have um five areas that are proposed for vacation um multiple rights of way throughout the city um this map does an overview of the areas um they aren't in alphabetical order uh because this is phase two of a series of vacations that we were doing um we had an initial series of vacations back in June and those ones were the least controversial and we're kind of moving through our list of vacations these ones also are relatively non-controversial we did send out notices to property owners that were deemed to be affected so that would be folks that were within the pl the original plat that dedicated the right of way or easement as well as properties that were within 500 ft of the vacation area um comments received were relatively mild in nature and generally were just kind of asking what is a vacation um a vacation is where the city uh releases its right over that property and then the property is generally um it's returned to the underlying property owner to do with as they see fit so um we can go through these individual areas as we um as we take a look at them so vacation area A is for unimproved portions of the mount Ridge Road RightWay um as you can see South of brener Avenue instead of having Mount Ridge Road continuing South instead there is a public Trail so the area that has the trail on it will be retained as right of way but because it's a trail instead of a road a 60ft width RightWay is not needed so portions of either side would be vacated with the proposal vacation area e was originally platted as quote walk in the plat of Minnesota realy company's aaso and it connects between Milwood Avenue and West aaso Boulevard um the area is not intended currently or in the future to have a walkway constructed over it and so it is proposed for vacation vacation area s is the portion of unimproved cariss Avenue and unimproved Kent Street these were originally dedicated with the plat of the surrounding properties but there is currently no roadway dedic no roadway improved on it nor is there one proposed for the future um and as a note there is a private driveway that has been constructed just south of 1960 um 1960 Dale Street um but that it but that portion of the ride of way is anticipated to go towards to that property to the north so that would be part of their parcel vacation area cc is a portion of unimproved Draper Dr Draper Avenue which um was originally dedicated with the surounding properties but currently has no roadway constructed on it nor would we propose to do one in the future and vacation area FF it was platted as an Alleyway in the plat of CW Michael second edition and it is not currently improved with um a public Improvement of a walkway or an Alleyway and so we would propose it for vacation um a public hearing is required by the Minnesota state statute 412. 851 um and we can move forward with the public hearing and Council doesn't have any questions to start out with all right uh thank you and I should say I I I think I promoted you to city engineer which Miss Lowry may may be concerned about but the assistant city engineer hopeful one day to be the city engineer reps um but with that being said uh do we have any questions from the Council on any of these proposed EAS Vacations or RightWay vacations one thing oh council member graph just to remind us how that is divided when it's ad joining other properties how vacations divided up so the city can't say for certain as it is determined by the County surveyor office they're the ones who make the final determination on where the area um is a portion to for the properties but in general it is um it is usually divided amongst the properties that are adjacent to it in the original plat where it was platted thank you all right uh and Mr treas I believe you've got uh some remarks to lead off the uh public hearing this evening yes before we jump in I would note that publish and Le legal mail notices have been provided for this public hearing legal no notices appeared in the city's legal newspaper the Pioneer Press on November 10th and November 17th 2023 and mail notices were sent on November 14th affidavits of publishing and mailing are available in the office of the city engineer and we did not receive any written objections to these projects all right thank you uh and I should note also for the public um two things one is that uh generally speaking the the rule of the road so to speak is that PRI property is to be privately held unless there is a public purpose to public entities such as the city uh holding property uh initially these various easements and rights of weight were dedicated as part of projects that were built at the time with the expectation that the city would uh put some sort of public Improvement on them uh however it has been determined over time uh that nothing is going to be built and nothing is required to be built uh and so by law uh cities and other public entities are not uh supposed to hang on to property uh for no public purpose because it is supposed to revert to private property holders uh and so that is the reason that we go through these processes every once in a while is when we've determined that um there is there's property that the city is holding a right over that we should not continue to maintain generally speaking uh as we just noted it gets kind of split in various ways based on somebody else's determination as to uh which of the adjacent Property Owners will get which portions of those those rights of we or easements um and certainly that does increase the square footage of of individual properties and can affect your tax value uh for future years uh but on the other hand it also becomes your own property again and you have the right to do whatever you will on that according to what is allowed um and so that is uh of course once again one of the philosophies Behind reverting these properties back to the private property owners is that that that is their right ultimately um in the end with that then this is a public hearing it's an opportunity for members of the public to either speak to or ask questions about any of these proposed easement or RightWay vacations um and then as we noted earlier we've got the three minute time limit per speaker we'd ask that you state your name and address or Street uh to begin your comments uh and then uh if you have questions we'll uh try to get those kind of corraled in the process and then answer those at the end uh and so we'll open up the public hearing uh and seek public input on any of these proposed easement or right way vacations uh and then we'll uh once the hearing is ended we'll proceed to council consideration is there anyone from the public who wishes to speak to any of these proposed easement or RightWay vacations this evening if there is feel free to come up to one of the two microphones uh for your comments or questions all right doesn't appear to be anyone here for this this evening one more opportunity is there anyone here to speak to these vacations of easements or for rights of way there we go hello and welcome hello good evening thank you everyone um I'm one of the affected homeowners and so I just have a question um once again can you your name sorry yeah my name is Stefan timer I am affected at uh CC which is the 1946 adjacent 1946 Fairview um and so my question is simply about the um uh will someone a Serv may be coming out and helping to delineate the new line for me I purchased the property a couple years ago and it's always kind of been a hey who's is this um I've been taking care of what I believed to be mine based on the location of other things but it be I'd be curious if this would be a point where I could count on knowing where a line is um for my own information so that's uh and thank you for for your time and for all you do thank you thank you for your question we'll check if there is anyone else who wishes to speak or ask a question about these proposed easements or rvo vacations all right seeing uh apparently nobody else we'll go ahead and close the public hearing then uh and uh we'll start with that question um and to the extent staff can answer it I don't believe that there's an automatic process by which um somebody say from the county or something comes out to delineate those uh those Chang property lines but I'll defer to staff just to be sure um yes mayor I am not aware of the county having a process where they would automatically do that um and generally the county does not um delineate property lines upon request it's usually something where you would have to hire a surveyor to do so right and the process takes a little bit of time as I understand it for these to be filed with the county and sort of in the system for a surveyor to know about the change I don't know if it's a few weeks or a few months or exactly what it is but I imagine that if one wanted to hire a private surveyor to to delineate those property lines for themselves they would want to give the process some time to to complete so that that surveyor is a away aware of that change yes mayor I'm not aware of what the exact time frame on that is either um it does require a little process on our end where we need to where the um city manager registers the vacation and then it kind of goes through their process where they make the determinations of which properties that those RTS to right I can imagine with everything else with government it doesn't happen instantaneously all right so uh that's to the best extent we can't answer that this evening but that's a good question all right we've got the request before us we've got um the the uh five resolutions a through e I'm just trying to track the the letters don't match of course as was noted so um I had to check with my for that again um I believe we're being asked to adopt each resolution individually that is correct um and because the uh because the proposed vacations are led by the city it does require a four fifths majority right thank you and thank you for reminding us of that so we'll need five motions we'll also need at least four votes in support because I think the requirement is a two-thirds majority which on a five member council is four all right uh Council council member Aton I would move the vacation for resolution a from Mount Ridge Road it second it right been moved by council member Aton second by council member Scher to do a on Mount Ridge Road any discussion on the motion hearing none all those in favor signify by saying I I opposed that passes unanimously meeting the two-thirds majority requirement I move resolution of resolution or move um resolution B all right second it's moved by Council St seconded by Council Ren to approve resolution B which is vacation e as you're keeping track at home discussion on the motion hearing none all those in favor signify by saying I I opposed that passes unanimously meeting the two-thirds majority requirement I move approval of resolution C second right it's been moved by council member gra second by council member St to approve resolution C if for property s uh discussion of the motion hearing n all those in favor signify by saying I I opposed that passes unanimously meeting the 2/3 uh requirement I would move to um move um resolution D adopted right it's been moved by council member shorter second by council member St to uh approve resolution D which is for property area CC uh discussion on the motion hearing none all those in favor signify by saying I I I oppos that passes unanimously meeting the 2/3 requirement and then finally res resolution e you should make this all right I'll move resolution e for f it's been moved by uh buo seconded by council member Aton any discussion on the motion hearing none all those in favor signify by saying I opposed that passes unanimously also meaning the two-thirds requirement all right anything else on these items this evening doesn't appear to be the case thank you again to staff for going through this process and I'm sure the next round will be coming before us at some point when uh it's determined what which ones those are going to be uh with that then uh we're uh up to our next item which is uh not a public hearing this is an item to discuss uh the possibility of changing Roseville statutes uh excuse me Roseville ordinances in relation to lawful gambling in the city specifically chapter 304 uh and the requirements related to um charitable gambling establishment numbers and limits and I'll turn it over I believe to Mr Tran for the presentation on this item thank you thank you uh Mr Mayor uh as mentioned uh this is a request by the roosville Area Youth Hockey Association to consider amending chapter 304 which is our lawful gambling uh ordinance to allow up to five separate locations within the city to uh for a nonprofit uh organization to conduct lawful gambling our current code as you may know uh allows up to three locations en caps their overall number of gambling permits to 12 just for your information lawful gambling includes Bingo pull tabs Raffles paddle wheels and tip boards uh currently as I mentioned or made Ian I didn't mention we have eight uh that uh are totally uh issued in the city uh the Youth Hockey Association has three at Lucky 13 High Pines brewing and the roosville bingo hall uh I have also listed the remaining uh um license holders just for your information and just as far as some history when this was first created in 1992 the city council at the time limited the total amount of uh lawful gambling licenses to eight and uh was only limited to one uh holder uh for nonprofit the feeling at the time was that they wanted to make sure that the impact uh that the lawful gambling proceeds can make to organizations was felt throughout the community in a variety of different organizations however over time that has changed uh starting in 2011 uh the city council did amend the code to allow uh up to two locations for lawful gambling that was at the request of the Youth Hockey Association then a little bit more recently in 2017 um the city council did amend uh to have up to three locations to conduct for lawful gambling that was also requested by the Youth Hockey Association at the time we actually did a pretty extensive overhaul of chapter three or four and among the things we changed was uh increase the lawful gambling premises permits from 8 to 12 and then we also better Define the trade area where the charitable gaming proceeds derived in real V must be spent by the nonprofit organization so uh in front front of you tonight is uh questioned by the Youth Hockey Association uh about possibly amending the ordinance I know they're representatives in the audience that will speak to it and I did include written information that they did provide me regarding their request right thank you Mr trudon uh and certainly this would be an opportunity for the representatives of the road for Youth Hockey Association to come up and uh kind of let us know what the thoughts are and and what the request is and and uh make their case and once again if you could start by introducing yourselves certainly and feel free to pull up a couple of extra chairs if you're all gonna speak you can share share the microphones uh I I will start um my name is Philip discard I live at 3120 Sandy Hook drive um you want everybody to introduce first and then that might make sense go ahead um Angela short and I work at 2525 North Snelling Avenue but I live in hamlake Minnesota I'm Ashley Horwath I'm the gambling manager I I work at 2525 Snelling as well um I currently reside in Little Canada but it's important to say I grew up at 2345 hour back it my M it is important gret and Hopman I am the President of Roseville Area Youth Hockey um I uh bring the area to Roseville so I live in Little Canada um but I live at 20 2661 Civic Center I have three boys on hockey so i r unofficial residence yeah so I I will start I'm the CEO for Roseville youth hockey along with multiple other uh volunteer positions within the association um we have found that there's significant Rising costs within youth hockey right and our job as a board is to try to keep costs as low as we can so that we can have more uh partici participants more athletes be able to play hockey um the current uh locations that we have do provide us nearly $300,000 in helping us be able to reduce costs uh however we've seen that the we've had to raise fees year-over-year for our athletes because costs of Ice costs have been increasing um equipment increase referees we've seen a 30% increase in the cost for referees this year and the one of the the triggers that we have to keep costs low is through charitable gambling um we are very limited on where we can go um to increase our locations uh much of the the cities around us are right we couldn't go to Rapids because Rapids doesn't touch Roseville so the way we can spread or try to increase our our footprint is by cities that touch Roseville we've learned that Minneapolis who um has there's bars that requested us to go into their location does not allow us to uh to move in there unless you conduct 50% of your business within that city so we are very limited on where we can go and the request is then to come to Roseville because we do have one location currently was uh actively recruiting us to come into their location um has already signed paperwork that they want us there um and this was our next step is to get that increased uh so that that's really the point I wanted to hit home is we have a large number of uh athletes um we need to keep the cost low for them and uh maintain our numbers as a uh first ring suburb uh offering hockey youth hockey if you look around the youth hockey uh footprint there's very few first ring suburbs that still have their own own Association um the other piece is I I do believe over the last several years we've represented rosville very well uh within youth hockey we've been uh last year we had two teams at peewee attend go to state um the year prior we had a peee team go to state so the the the product we're putting out uh is representing Roseville um I would say well um in comparison to the rest of the state and so I just kind of talk to you about statist statistics our numbers as Phil mentioned um we're we're a small Association the only other uh first ring suburb is Bloomington Jefferson Minneapolis in St Paul have condensed um that to be a really flourishing sport in the city and they only have one team each so we're really trying to make sure that we make accessible um hockey accessible to everybody we our our mission and vision is life lessons on and off the eyes we're not just making hockey players we're making community members we're making future coaches future board members future city council members um we have been a testimony to the sport um we are front and leading in Dei was which is an initiative that matches with the city's um Mission uh so we're one of the first um associations in the state to have a Dei um board member um and I'm proud to say that um he is now working with Minnesota hockey and USA Hockey to get policies and procedures to make sure that all of our athletes are supported in this sport um we were funded we were founded in 1964 so we're going to be 60 next year Don black uh was a inaugural I see Jason Shing he was an inaugural um component of our history um you know the JC's were our first fundraiser and then the BFW sponsored us we've been really trying to make sure that we can keep this accessible to everybody and our being a 501c3 that has enough expenditures and income makes this kind of like a unicorn in in Minnesota charal gambling but by giving us the opportunity to have more locations we'd hope that we could give our funds to other 501 c3s so you know football soccer really make it so that we can have not just hockey in Roseville but other accessible sports for all of our kids because we are a very diverse Community um I'd also like to just share that you know we do a lot of fundraising um for like the kids too so all of our Bantam teams do community service our Bantam B1 um uh level has uh for the past six years done uh kids kids for kids fighting for cancer last year they ran uh raised $10,000 and one uh a night with the Minnesota Wild uh We've continued to put back into the the arena uh we're one of five user groups in the arena um but we do have we our partners Midway speed skating we put an $118,000 drink rail in we put the second scoreboard in we helped with the oval to get the uh um the budget over there with the state to make sure that we could have an outdoor um outdoor rink um we're all very active within the community and we're really proud of where we're from and by giving this opportunity I was president or just about being president when we asked in 2017 so I I I've been here a long time um but I ask that you just do this for the kids do this for the community to keep growing and and um I think it's a really good opportunity for not just our kids but all of the all of the community just going um I I think they both hit on a lot of things um that are very very important one little thing I would add is um to be honest not all of our locations make a ridiculous amount of money one specifically um I know for a fact it's two people that said hey let's start a business in the city we grew up in which is Roseville they don't do really great so for us when we're well that's horrible they they're not they don't make the most money compared to some of the other locations and um you know so for us at this point when another ones come to us which we do project would make a lot more money for our kids you kind of have to do the dance when it's the limit of what are you going to do so far we've said we're not walking away from you you know like you're Roseville so we are mindful of that also there's not any other youth based Roseville Charities right now that are functioning that are looking for these locations um my kids play multiple sport I'm a big fan of multiple Sports a athletes if that's what you want to do just they don't need to dive into just one um if that was the case I don't know that we would actually be here but we do feel like it's an immediate give back to the kids in our community and we do also give back to the high school too so we we give donations back to both high school teams um and really try to honor the kids that went through our program and then go to our high school and so we're we're just trying to make it you know a legacy in that way um we've had a lot of NHL players we had a first Miss hockey Winnie bro uh who was inaugural in women's hockey and still is and she's on her board right now so she's been giving back to the sport her entire life as as her sister um Marty seric who continues to give back um he lives in cough cough Edina I know uh but he he comes back and still gives um back to our kids as he runs um a summer program for them so all of every all of our alumni comes back and gives to us I think I am the assistant gambling manager and I am out in the bars most of the time I'm the one that kind of handles everything with the bar owners and most of the time when we get asked by other people that are in the establishments like Hey how do we get this going in our place we really want to support a Roseville based team and we have Roseville Roseville utake is in our name like we can't go like he said to Blaine and be like yes Roseville utaki sponsored it because they all come looking for places that will give right back to their community and I would love to help more of those businesses become um bigger establishments and things like that and help them grow as far as having this they know our teams will come in they know that we will bring different parents coming in in between time and it's a mutual relationship to keep their business growing also and every single location we've had is so supportive of us which is very nice to have just want to keep growing that all right do we have questions from the council councilman Bron uh first I appreciate all of the things you've highlighted you are doing the community I absolutely see that and we appreciate that um starting with the students and the kids um and moving through other contributions um I have a few questions um the first one uh you mentioned that uh Midway speed skating is your partner is it only at the Bingle hall or are you partnering at the other locations also only the Bingo that was my understanding just gray um to fold off on that basically we have a structure so we have half the days of the month so this month we have 14 and it just kind of flexes but legally when one of us is in session the other one could have nothing to do with it so we share the building and we just have a rotating the schedule mhm all right thank you um and then the other thing uh Richard you brought up and said hey we want to contribute to other sports is that something that's formal or something you're saying hey let's this could be something we could do I think if we get the five locations you know if we get up to and in when you're 501c3 in Minnesota you have to spend as much is you bring in right and if we get to a point that we because right now my budget's sitting about $900,000 and so you know we we an average guesstimate it's it's a guessing it's a forecasting okay we're going to get 300 $300,000 in charitable gambling now let's say we get five locations and they just take off and we don't have we have 1.2 million we're going to have to give that money away and we want to give that back to other organizations that are 501 c3s like baseball fast pitch soccer and that so informally yes but formally I would like to get get it there and I think we can okay thank you MH C gra well thank you for the presentation it's good to learn a little bit more about your organization I've heard of it of course but I wasn't aware of all the things you do for the community and I guess I'm really impressed with your Dei work that's that's great to hear wondering if you do anything with scholarships or how you do how you're working to in the uh different skin tones on the teams or gender those sorts you want to speak to that yeah yeah well currently we have a budget about $25,000 that we have financial aid and it's a very um you know um there's only three or four people in the factors of who makes the decision and it's accessible to anybody and and no one will be denied um for whatever they can pay so if it if it's a minimal amount uh we do have a lot of other Scholarships in the sense of trying to help the kids continue hockey is a sport that is all year round now um to Ashley's Point multiport athlete however you can't put your skates away completely so we do find other um Avenues to help our our kids to continue continue to skate in the summer um and then if you want to yeah so I'll just uh highlight that we have about 30 families that participate in that financial aid so they submit an application uh as Gretchen referenced our uh three people go through those applications and Grant what they request that money comes right from charitable gambling um so there is uh roughly 25,000 a year goes to just families that are completely in need um we've seen the requests increase year-over-year um and I do think that's because of the rising cost but their kids really do love love the sport uh I would say we are one of the most diverse um associations um we haven't I don't have any statis statistics on it uh but we have uh we're very diverse and we have transgender athletes um that are playing with us um we have yeah we're just we're we're a Melting Pot it's something that I like to highlight to Minnesota hockey not only is our not only our kids diverse but our board is too and so we mimic each other and I think that's really important that the kids see someone like them sitting on a board that they could make systematic change within a sport that is the culture of Minnesota um so um you know I was one of the first female I was the first I am the first female president of Roseville Area Youth Hockey never played the sport so there's that caveat too um but also I was the one of the first female um presidents in the state and so i' I always found that important to highlight to the girls um that you could go into a male dominated Sport and be able to do that another highlight I would like like to talk about to is firstgate so firstgate is a program that we uh cultivated years ago it's about $50 um we make it very very easy um we've partnered with played Again Sports in St Paul um and we used to have all of the equipment like at our disposal but what I found and what we found is that we didn't want to give any new family um ill-fitting gear because right it's very important that they stay protected so we donated all of our equipment and threw away the stuff that didn't work and we have a we have a partnership so they get a coupon they go down there they get full outfit of hockey they come and they have six touches with us to see if they like the sport and then if they do like it that that coupon code goes into their registration for $250 they usually touch the ice on our registration for $250 about 50 times so it's about $5 a skate you can't really get anything for $5 anymore um we have professional development that comes out so through our four-year-olds up into our 14-year-olds we're able to provide professional development for skating um checking is really important so we're doing a checking Clinic to make sure that the boys learn how to not only give a check but receive a check because concussion and everything like that we really trying to take uh take it to a level of um like I mentioned life lessons on off the ice of like taking these things that they're learning through coming to the um to the rank and coming to learning in the locker room and apply that to their life and in disciplines a quick follow quick followup quick followup is no one's turned away because of a lack of funds no correct never yep we've fund several families with 100% 100% yes Cil strong um so how many paid staff do you have right now we currently have two and that is the first time this is the first time we've had that okay well back to the 2019 uh 99 form it looks like there was two at that time too yes so well I guess um well we have four we're talking about the gambling yeah for the gambling Angie and I are the only ones that are salaried employees assisant gambling assisant gambling manager and gambling manager it also list is Gretchen is receiving uh funding from the um in 2019 MH I wish I know you might want to check it I might want to check that well you it's on the public record $35 an hour for $110,000 in 29 on the 990 tax form oh that was when we had the embezzlement and I was running the Gam H because we didn't want to lose our Gambling License and so I took it so that's um I do not that your official um address is actually in uh Shor view um at least at that time at 3570 Lexington Avenue in Shore View so just curious that is our accountant okay um and Shel and um of those 30 families that are receiving financial aid how many of those families live in rosille I don't have that information for you you um we are Roseville area so it is anybody who's within the Roseville area school district um or anyone who chooses to participate no no there's waivers and it's we're the most overg governed sport in youth sport so you have to there's waivers and we have a district in Minnesota hockey you can't you have to be able to play where you live or go to school to go to school or you go to school yes okay I can count off my head in of those 30 people right now I think there's for sure 11 at the top of my head that live in Roseville gotcha um are any of the students are um how is the financing determined is that based on what type of it's like free and reduced lunch or how is that determined who receives financial aid yep so there is a a list of questions that we ask and we one of the questions is how much in funds do you need uh to how how much do you need from us and I believe this year you gave everybody what they asked for yeah and we do we don't ask for a free reduced lunch we don't ask for any documentation it's it's it's on their Merit and honor um you mentioned that you have some interested party um another organization in Roseville that's seeking or that is seeking you out are you able to share who that is uh certainly Buffalo Wild Wings okay um who has started to reach out to all of the youth hockey associations where they're located has um the open in Cloud Oakdell is now going and when they they came to us they just because this is new since normally corporate most chains that's not really what they want but they're leaning into that and yeah their ask is they're going to the local the local um hockey teams gotcha and then just the last thing as far as looking at your 990 it looks like um ice rental is one of the biggest um but you're saying like depreciation and what what items are you owning that you contributing that we own the bingo hall the building okay the building itself is what we depreciate okay um and I did in the letter provide our expenses or what we we pay to Roseville Ice Arena the oval um and the county the county so Roseville Arena our spend uh last year was 116,000 our spend at oval was 41,7 120 Oscar Johnson Ice Arena 190,000 uh all we contributed to the 1% tax for Roseville 14,000 the 10% fund for Roseville tax of 31,000 and in state taxes we paid 344,000 which is more than our contribution amount to the kids and that's all under the state gambling law yes yep I just wanted to highlight some of our our expenses that some of our spend in Roseville and then then where some of this money goes okay right other questions from the council okay um so just a couple of things um in relation to um sort of how this this works you know under our system right now so you've you've you know said you've got a fourth establishment that is seeking interested and you're asking for potential to have five so that you have I'm assuming some flexibility some ability to I've actually we've already had to decline one other area because we didn't have enough and they were able to obviously search farther out so they found a different charity to come in from a different where that falls under the rules but you know not being able to even entertain that idea to help Roseville and our organization was frustrating in that too you know so we do have others that do ask it's just a matter of there's Al other things coming in that are being built too like I know at some point maybe Old Chicago will be something else that might be and that's rosille so it's just about maybe being open to having more ways to make more money for the kids that she's saying that the Old Chicago might be a different business May interested saying there's they come back but they're closed something yeah just saying that there are other avenues that come in at some point possibly so and my follow-up question too is is uh do you look to the potential to do any uh charitable gambling opportunities within St Paul or is that just a a marketplace where you can't as an outside entity get into St Paul has some interesting rules associated with uh charitable gambling okay M may know a little bit about that so what we've been able to if if the a location tells uh a charitable or nonprofit that they don't want them in there any longer it's a one-year weight period until they can get a new anywhere a new yeah and and the vocations make money right so they get a a portion um of the proceeds or the sales the net Gaming revenue um so for them to lose uh a location or a 51 C3 for a year is very difficult um we are always looking though uh the nice thing is that Buffalo Wild Wings waited for us to be able to get to this point um if we're able to get the approval move in there I will be having the conversations with them about um their Maplewood location um because there's no one in that location currently but I wanted this is the one location that he really came to us for to start with I will then seek seek their other their other location all right any other questions we appreciate you being here this evening and in making your case to us and all the work that you do in the community with our young people uh really appreciate you're highlighting that as well uh so I think the council will do some discussion here and perhaps provide some guidance to staff as to whether uh we'll bring something forward and what it might look like uh and um stay tuned in that regard uh we'll go then to the council discussion so feel free to relax in the uh in the comfortable seats that aren't right in front of us thank you for everything you do thank you thank you thank you so uh just to kind of check in with the council does the council wish to uh look to have staff bring forwards uh some uh potential changes to the ordinance um councilman Bratton mayor I I would be interested in changes but I I'm wondering about the thoughts you know one of the reasons we had a rule many years ago was making sure no one completely dominated the situation right um they are doing good things and they're the only groups other than the primary owners of some establishments that are not doing this so I I think it makes sense to open some doors my question is whether there should be trigger for um reducing that if other organizations do come in we've hit our Max so we got a Max of 12 let's say they have five no one else has more than one do we cause that to knock back down to four or three with a three guaranteed if we have other organizations does that make sense I think I get the sense of what you're trying to trying to do there and may more complicated legally than it's well that's what we pay Missy the big dollars for right um I I think that's that sort of gets to what I was wondering about I was kind of looking at it in the sense of of you know one of the OB objectives is to make sure that we're sort of supporting diverse needs within the community um and and you know I was just doing of course being an engineer I did the math and um you know so five of 12 is about 42% of the overall sites and of course right now there's only eight premises so theoretically five is actually you know over half um and and that could get concerning um potentially if if the objective is not to be as as was said you know dominant and and how do we address that do we try to assign it as no no single um um charity can have more than half of the current licenses and that if the number of premises increases you know then potentially they could have another one or something you know I I don't know how you put that into a code necessarily but that might be a way to try to get at it my concern is I I don't think we would want to necessarily take something away from somebody once it's been once they're using that and dependent on the revenue so I wouldn't want it necessarily to be something that that you know triggers a a takeaway where maybe over time an establishment may decide not to have that charity or have any Charities uh at that establishment just through natural attrition maybe something could be dealt with in terms of how we get back to more parity in the system uh that may be something we want maybe staff and our our legal folks to take a look at you know thinking philosophically how to address that um because I definitely you want to be respectful of the original notion of not having one entity so so dominant but I don't want to have a system that is just like yanking yanking things away from people all the time too um so those are some thoughts council member strong and then and I agree and I worked in a nonprofit Administration so that's why the questions centered around the 990 because that really does kind of tell who an organization is I appreciate all the work you do and I appreciate I'm sure the oval has great appreciation for your input and all that you add to it I just want to make sure that we are if we are talking 11 families that it's really hard that live in Roseville that we're saying okay and you can have over 50% of our establishments I just looked did a quick search and you know we often hear about Roseville area fast pitched feeling like they're not getting enough attention in the Parks and other things you know do these other organizations know that they would have the opportunity to do this I mean is this a publicly known entity is do they have to have someone who's um you know partly paid on stop to even know that you know baseball football NSSA fast pitch you know all these organizations could have something and I would be somewh in agreement with um council member Eton and saying well you can have it for now but I even more so uh agree with mayor Row in that once someone has that it's really hard to say nope take it back because and now you've relied upon that income I you know I it's really hard to balance that but I I feel like it's best to make sure that we have an opportunity for other it's almost an opportunity for other organ reach out to other organizations and say hey do you know you can do this and Council sh well I want to make sure that we don't just concentrate on these numbers because I would hate to limit this because I do think this organization is doing some really good things for the community and the kids and all the work they're doing I mean you know know their EDI stuff they're you know and and that they're really spending you know money on on financial aid and so to say well we really don't want you to have too many of these and now additional families and kids and there's a lot of kids that go to Roseville High School that don't live in Roseville so I mean they're still in the community so I guess I want to make sure that um you know my view the more we can help out the community and and it sounds like this is um the businesses would like to do it and I I think yeah you open it up and let these because if you look at this list there are other people that are other organizations working on this and let them know we're looking at this but I'd hate to not let them expand just because we want in the future possibility that kind of a thing so I guess if that can do some good for the community in the near future how can we do that with without how can we balance the two I guess is what I'm saying on that side so and uh sorry we you've had your chance at the table but uh if if we may if we may want to ask questions to clarify things but I did want to note a couple of things on just on the the scholarships is just a part of of of what this funding goes towards in terms of your operations and so you know looking at just the number of scholarship recipients that may be R residents and it's a number off the top of the head too um is is not the whole picture and certainly I think basically as was noted everything that this organization does has to be for hockey players in the Roseville area school district essentially so that are not otherwise in other programs um and so that that's sort of the community impact um so and I do appreciate the notion of of wanting to make sure we are supporting the organizations and I think the reality probably is is that there is a threshold for any organization charitable organization to get involved in the support through charitable gambling that not every organization can can do do um and and then certainly it's got to be having a willing participant on the premises side as well um and that's probably a part of why we only have currently eight of our 12 premises even being used of which uh at least half are the organization itself um so that's you know that's I think that the marketplace sort of is is telling us what's out there right now and and certainly if other other organizations want to do the charitable gambling they've got to sort of invest in that infrastructure within their organization uh and not everybody's capable of doing that um not not to say that you couldn't band together or whatever but obviously there's there's paperwork involved in all that uh to put it mildly um so it it seems like and I'll certainly recognize other coun it seems like generally speaking we're looking to try to do something and I think it's going to require some it may not happen instantaneously um you know one of the things we could do is we could look at a short-term increase from 3 to four uh to to deal with the the sort of the pending transaction if if we're comfortable with that and then bring back more sophisticated language because this is not something that's changing every day certainly we don't we don't see the numbers fluctuating all over the place all the time so we've got some time if we want to be more thoughtful um but counc M gra thoughts from you well I'd be supportive of them I I think for me uh they're doing a lot of good work in the community they seem to be reflecting a lot of the values that I would like to see uh with Youth and um what the final document looks like is you know I that can be worked out uh I wouldn't want over half going to one group either I think that's kind of a number that we should be careful about but um I think we should proceed and and get get some information from staff on how how it could be written up C outs does staff have any uh questions about sort of what the council is kind of looking at or any um is this something that perhaps either already has been as part of the previous process or could again be looked at in terms of what other communities are doing if they're doing anything in this type of language area um Mr Mayor and Council I'm not sure what other cities are doing I know we spent extensive amount of time in 2017 really looking at the trade area to really make sure that it did benefit so we have these built-in standards that it's designed to benefit the fact that we increased it to 12 and I'm was trying to rec call when we change it from 8 to 12 I think maybe we're at 8 and the thought maybe we get some more the fact that we don't have additional um licenses out seems to me there's some capacity and for those that would want to be able to do it they choose not to for whatever reason as you mentioned maybe capacity or lack of interest on that um I'd be a little leery to be honest until I hear more about how we would either pull something back or have some automatic triggers in there I I think probably the direct routes the best way to do it change the number if that's what you want to do if it becomes a problem at some point uh whether the total number of licenses or there is additional requests um you can deal with that more directly with the the facts at hand at that time uh perhaps the solution the short-term solution um is to increase it to four um that would be a simple fix in the ordinance it's just changing number three to four and uh and 304 2 a we would need to actually publish that for 10 days so we couldn't take that up until the January uh council meeting but uh and then in the meantime I suppose we could look at what other cities are doing and how they've dealt with this this number you you kind of are building in this no more than half uh already just with up to five if we have 12 for instance so um I think perhaps the direct route's the best way if you want to fix something now fix it change that and we can continue to have conversations moving forward but I I I don't know in my mind at least how it would work with triggers if if something happens and you can write something in the code that automatically reverts Beyond taking business away I'm not sure what those triggers would look like so I think it's best to probably just deal with it as it comes up with the question right and I'm I personally I'm not sure that I'm ready to go to Five um yet but four you know seems something we could do and that would be as you said a relatively easy change so that might be the first step and then we can we can noodle on it some more and and think about you know because I've got thoughts in my mind as to how maybe that could be approached in terms of of you know how to do it without taking you know taking things away from people but I'm I'm not there yet in terms of what that might look like and and as as I noted Miss TIY may have some thoughts there too or or may want to defer to us um but either way I think that the short-term answer seems to be that the council is okay with going to the four and then we'll figure out if there's a way to try to you know to try to make sure that one um entity isn't dominating all of the premises permits CC M strong I'm not really comfortable moving even to four at this point I just feel like we so hockey I realize it's why it's here it's not the most accessible sport for the masses um most kids aren't going to there's just a lot of other you know baseball basketball there's other things within the city and you do need to have a gambling manager in order to have so you do need to have some kind of paid staff they have to be trained and all that stuff but I think you know if there's so few entities in entities in the city who are interested when you have someone who's trained and they're out there kind of I'm sure people aren't just coming you're you're like having to seek things out and so I'm kind of a little concerned that the few entities that might exist have the tenacity of the hockey people to to get them first and so by adding I don't know I just feel like it's always going to come out that they're going to have keep seeking more they're the ones been driving this this far and so they're just concerned that that's I not not to undermine what they've done well but just that there are a lot of other kids besides hockey players in this world and and maybe other people need some opportunities so and it's not known to be the most diverse Sport and I realize it helps to have the Dei and all that but I just concerned and I realize you know the people in the city but it's not our job as the city council of Roseville to um provide entertainment to the all of the Roseville area schools so uh it sounds like once again I think we've got the the plan to bring back the language with the four and then we can have the Council debate at that time y um I don't know if other Council M shorter did you have any other thoughts yeah no I was going to say I support going to four I think that's a good shortterm um fix on this and again other other sports have had the opportunity we've had enough permits for it's not like we're putting a new one in so they've had the opportunity and just that they don't come forward and don't want to get into it shouldn't mean that we should penalize somebody who's willing to do some charitable work so that's how I looked at that right we have our direction to staff do all right thank you again and we'll look forward to bringing this back probably at one of our January meetings yep January January I'll be in touch with you perfect thank you again thank you all right uh that then brings us to um item seven e which is to receive our final Envision Roseville report and we have our assistanc manager Rebecca Olsen with us this evening as well as a a cast of thousands oh wait there one other person um to uh bring this final report to us so we'll welcome you here and uh maybe reintroduce yourselves for benefit of the public and look forward to the presentation thank you mayor council members um I'm just going to take a second and figure out where I put the I'll go analog if I need I'll I'll you look like you're ready because we can take like a f minute break if you want to because we're close to our our 8 o' break time so we'll take a five minute break take this down they have a different ra secret St I'm a chain gum cheer always she doesn't want to bring it she's we're back up we're back from our break and we we are hopefully we're all set on our technical side I'll turn it back over to miss Olson our assistant city manager to introduce this final report on our uh Envision Roseville process welcome thank you mayor council members uh tonight is a culmination of nearly 24 months of work on this community visioning process um back in March of 2021 you began discussing the concept of community visioning and beginning to plan for It ultimately you decided to uh choose Dan Associates to help guide this work and Dan ederton is here tonight to present uh their final report on this Pro little bit of background this intensive community-driven process was intended to review and update the city's uh City's aspirations and also to develop outcomes to help us understand how to achieve those aspirations what you will hear tonight comes directly from the community this is the result of intentional and targeted engagement it was time time and resource intensive but this visioning process isn't the only method that the city uses to receive input there's multitude of Engagement channels that we have we've got City surveys we've got program participation public comment etc etc um the list goes on however this process was intentional about targeting those people that aren't traditionally involved in Civic processes um the beauty of this approach is that um although it targeted those who may be historically underrepresented it also captured other voices as well and this is one of the reasons we approached it in this manner because if we don't intentionally set out to reach those who are under engaged we might miss them but when we do set our intentions correctly we capture not only those voices but we cap cast that wide net and get other voices as well so throughout this process staff and the Consultants team were very cognizant of the relationships that were being built with people who participated if there were promises made such as the number of meetings to attend or if there was followup that was said to be done um we made sure that those promises were kept we realize that there's a level of trust that is being built throughout this process and relationships have to be established before people feel comfortable and confident enough to share their opinions with us and so our staff and um the rest of us here at the city see this visioning process is not just one project but a foundation upon which we can build um further relationships with our community so tonight you are going to receive this report you're being asked to just receive it this evening there is a lot of information in your packet um but Dan is here to kind of help you digest some of that and um you'll have an opportunity to hear from him review the findings ask any questions um and we can come back at a later point to discuss next steps whether it's adopting aspirations um developing strategic planning or etc etc so with that I'm going to turn it over to Dan okay thank you welcome Rebecca Mr mayor council members thanks again for for having me back uh I'm Dan ederton I'm with xan Associates we are the consultant team that you selected to work on this and I was our project manager I also want to acknowledge uh also in the room is Janna King who was part of our team uh and did a lot of really great work on this project so uh what we're going to do tonight is uh We've prepared a final document it's the final deliverable um it's not the end of the process but it's meant to be the document that can capture the deliverable you know it's the work that we did it's that documentation that you have and hopefully the foundation or the jump off point for you know now and into the future uh when it comes to visioning so I've got a slideshow I'm going to go through it's kind of long but I'll fly through some of the slides and I'll slow down on the ones that are a little bit more important and of course yell or or uh you know afterwards uh we can we can jump back as need so uh that's that's the intention for tonight here here's here's our agenda here's what we're going to cover I just said all of this but uh we'll touch on all all of the elements kind of in the in the work plan and finally land at you know what those Community aspirations and outcomes look like um so before we get into the nuts and bolts just a little bit of reflecting back on what we were trying to do this is what we set out to do at the beginning this was sort of our our charge uh and I think Rebecca captured it really well so I'm not going to dwell a heck of a lot on on this one uh but one thing that I do want to say is that um you know flipping to the definition of what a community aspiration is it's not my intention to read this to you but uh just to give you the cliff notes Here a community aspiration is intended to be that Northstar that guiding principle I say community aspirations because that's what we use as a side note you can I use that as a synonym with vision with guiding principles you know different uh vernacular but it kind of means the same thing it's meant to be that that that um that Foundation or that Compass Arrow to point the city now and into the future it should be aspirational but also attainable like it's not meant to be super Pie in the Sky spaceships and flying cars and all of that but uh it should be it should be something that we strive to right uh what is it not it's not specific strategies it's not your strategic plan you know into the future uh it's meant to provide the framework for that and have some criteria maybe that you can measure against as you get into that kind of stuff so um that's what that's what we're talking about this is uh reflecting back this is a timeline that I prepared in June of 2021 for our original proposal uh so just to this is part of the journey we've been on and we were going to end in summer and we're like six months past that and that's not unexpected there were reasons in phase one we extended a couple of extra months I came and talked to you I don't know last last winter and we decided to extend to try to get more responses under the first survey and we did that and we did something similar in phase two so the you know the schedule slipped and and uh kind of extended a little bit but it wasn't unexpected and you know tonight we're at the end of this timeline and and time to think about what comes next so uh the project itself as as was mentioned was uh intended to be Community Le and to do that we did a lot of intentional Community engagement was structured in two phases and what I'm going to do in my presentation is walk you through what was done in each of those phases some of this will be kind of repeat from what we talked about before but I've added to it and and fleshed it out a little bit so there were two phases phase one was the fun part it was the visioning it was getting out there and talking with people making all of those initial contacts and relationships phase two we said here's what we heard here's some draft Community aspirations and um what what do you think did we get it right do we need to add what does that look like to you you know it was that kind of a discussion uh so uh without further Ado 3,500 plus Community uh interactions this is hard to quantify you know did some somebody attended a meeting and did they also leave a comment you know so don't don't uh don't lean too heavily on on the numbers themselves but I did did want to give you a sense of of kind of the scale um what we tried to do was be intentional about who we talked to but at the same time cast that wide to try to really get a sampling of of what's out there so a lot of live engagement activities many of you were there and and thank you for that out in the community uh we had a robust online program with surveys with interactive maps with a cool Hello lamp post tool uh with some Direct business engagement um workshops and interviews all of that kind of stuff went into this um I want to specifically acknowledge and credit the community Advisory Group you may it was months ago but you may remember this uh the council helped to form the group as did staff uh they they represented various backgrounds they were members of your commissions they were Property Owners they were business uh representatives and while they met just twice they came at really pivotal times and helped us to form what we were going to do to guide the approach so we met the first time right before we launched phase one and the second time right before we launched phase two so they were really that sounding board that helped us to shape and and vet and make sure we're asking the right questions that sort of thing um so uh they were great uh we focused um on community organizations and building Partnerships as a way to reach some of those Target populations traditionally un untapped populations uh our Focus was on uh bipo black indigenous and people of color it was on lower income uh it was on uh those those groups that are list those groups plus those that are listed on the on the slide students and families uh faith-based communities those types of things and so uh we reached out to all of them you know like all of the community organizations in Roseville and had some level of interaction with many more than were on this slide these are the ones that we sat down and really engaged with um so it's a it's a much smaller subset of the the bigger program um so those are there these are the community events I'm not going to dwell on this we had some really cool there's some cool eye candy in this presentation but uh virtual engagement um I I know many of you are are well aware of what we did here but we had a virtual engagement platform that had lots of hits we did hello lamp post signs in the community which were super fun uh and then we used the city's existing social media CH uh communication channels including social media including the email blast uh system uh things that uh that you already do uh and then in addition to that we had a specific campaign that was focused on business engagement that was led by Jan King who's here my slide is incorrect and I'm not sure why there's wonky formatting but there were 42 responses and not 40 and there were 15 uh targeted interviews and not 14 and so um you know this this wasn't meant to be huge numbers but instead it was meant to be a very specific targeting to get some uh some interaction with the business community and we can talk more about the findings from that in a little bit here just some uh I candy type of stuff that I've got for you now um get photos of of what these activities look like and I'm happy to go into the details of of any of them but in the sake of time for the sake of time I'm just going to kind of flip through some of these and get caught up on my notes so I don't miss stuff because I always do that um so that was that was phase one uh we went out and we asked folks what what's your vision for the future what's your vision now and into the future how are things looking what's important to you uh we we took that information and we tabulated it and so this is the really hard part you'll notice in the information that you received we gave you the raw data from the surveys which is really fun to look at a lot of very specific comments fix the pothole here add that program there that's all really great stuff but we needed to find a way to Wrangle that and to get it into something that we can use for this community aspirations so it wasn't easy uh we do have some data analysts on staff uh that helped sort of structure our framework for that essentially we read them all and we we codes we did a coding thing so if anybody's done anything like that uh survey review type of stuff that's that's what we did and that helped us to organize into the key themes uh we took all of that and we started to develop the draft Community aspiration statements um and kind of the outcomes what does it look like and started to bring that out we went to the community Advisory Group and in phase two asked the question do we get this right what did we miss that kind of thing so um that's what phase two was you can see kind of the the uh the the things that we did there so that's a a quick summary there's a whole lot of more detail to be told but of what we did for Community engagement uh where I'm going to go next is to really dig into the community aspirations uh just to sort of not bury the lead one of the key findings that that uh popped out pretty early actually is that know we were intentional not to start with the old Community aspirations because we didn't want to buy a the results but what we found is they they sort of lined up anyway so uh I don't know if that's good or bad but it was it was definitely an interesting finding they weren't exact I think maybe the uh magnitude or importance might have shifted a little bit here or there but generally the categories that we started with are the categories or themes that we ended with which which I thought was interesting um so with that I'll kind of jump into them um there's a lot of detail here and um while you know I'm going to be tempted to read everything to you I'm gonna read some of it to you and I'm gonna let you read some of it on your own uh so you've got some information in the report this is a summary this is like the cliff notes here are the here are the themes and the community aspirations so when I talk about themes it's like the three-word version of what the aspiration is talking about so that's you know what what does theme mean that's what I'm talking about so uh you can see that the key themes were transportation and infrastructure Green Space and Environmental Conservation that's the one that crept up or if it was newer in this go around that stuck out to me city parks facilities and programming uh city services and Civic engagement welcoming and inclusive Safety and Security Housing and Development and business and economy um so what you have in your report and this is where I'm not going to read everything to you but I'm going to kind of show you what's there so you can navigate it on your own right but uh for each of those uh categories those themes there's like a section in the report there's a section of slides in my presentation they're color coded in the report as well so you've got in this one for example transportation and infrastructure the first thing you see is just a this is a roll up of the types of comments it's not perfect if you start to dig into those comments you'll see they get really specific and that coding did kind of intentionally wash it down to a a common denominator for better or worse so I think that City and staff should look at those specific comments and take them to heart but that that wasn't the intention of this so I I say all that because I don't want to minimize that person who wrote me a long message about how important the on-ramp to Highway 36 is we agree and mot's working on it you know but I want to make sure that uh you know people know that their input uh that they provided wasn't wasn't for not it wasn't wasted so anyway uh when you get into this you've got a section for summary of the comments just to give you a of s what to the aspirations and then you've got the the kind of the the big shebang if you will the aspiration statement and then the outcomes so the aspiration statement is meant to be the bigger umbrella you know that sort of organizes us and the outcomes are meant to be the the teeth if you will the thing that the city might be able to influence or act on so um I'm I'm at a loss my original intent was to like like I said read this all to you I don't think I'm going to but I'll I'll maybe start with the aspirations transportation and infrastructure uh the words were well crafted or intentionally crafted based on that coding process I described and then based on reviews with the community advisor group and with staff uh but I would encourage you not to you C you can Wordsmith these all you want after I'm gone but but the the the the intention is hopefully there so for transportation we aspire to be a place with safe inclusive in well-connected transportation systems that support health and wellbeing of residents visitors commuters or sorry customers business this is why I didn't want to read it to you and employees regardless of ability to access cultural background or socioeconomic standing so it's a mouthful but then you get into the as the outcome statements that's the aspiration and it's where it's multimodal and well connected it's safe for people to walk there are policies that are supportive of Transit so that's that's the flavor right of what we're trying to go go through um so I'll kind of flip through these a little bit faster now and and maybe hit some highlights uh Green Space and Environmental convers Conservation was a big one and and but it was kind of universal the theme was well we should have that and we should protect it and we should value it right there wasn't a whole lot of uh Nuance to it uh there was uh some that that I'll get to around when we talk about development about you know I'm for or against multif family housing we we should keep green space but we try tried to par those out where we could um so there's a green space aspiration uh we want to we want to treasure our open space our Green Space Preserve it we want to be proactive about pursuing sustainability uh those those types of things so uh that's that one uh Parks and Recreation came up quite a bit um I I want to acknowledge that's probably the nature of where we went and talked to people right we were out in the community we were out at the parks uh I didn't say this before these themes or aspirations are in order of frequency right it's about relatively you squinty ey this is this one had the most comments this one but what they are not is they are not intended to be rank order we did not present them that way we did not ask the community to vet them in that way uh and so if there is a hierarchy applied to them I'll leave that up to you and staff later but as presented here Parks and Recreation is not meant to have more bearing or less bearing than the one before it or the one after it so I say all of that because Parks and Recreation had a lot we had a lot of comments about the different Parks the different programs and that kind of thing uh those those types of things so uh so there it is there's the the community aspiration for Parks and Recreation um maybe a new Nuance that I would highlight for this go around is that it was the um age appropriate and culturally relevant was kind of the the theme and those are sort of jargony words or or maybe loaded words but but the sentiment that underly underlies that in in my mind is um acknowledging that there are now a growing uh group of diverse communities within the city and they recreate in in maybe different ways than than the communities were doing in the 80s or whatever when we built the park buildings and so that the uh facilities and programming that we offer should start to reflect that and should do it in a proactive way is is sort of the sentiment that we got uh and then there were a whole ton of as you can imagine very specific comments on change this building redo that building use the buildings don't use the buildings you know there's a lot of that kind of stuff so Splash Pad splash pad and Community Center were the number one comments across the board we want a Shore View style Community Center and we want Splash Pad so uh you can you can take every aain building yep uh city services and engagement um this one the Nuance the difference between this one and the last one is this this one were comments that tended to be more broad it was more about Health and Human Services it was more about city services and access to Services um and it was about doing um promotion of city services in a way that's inclusive so uh that's that's the summary of the input and you can again see the see the aspiration statement in that theme of being inclusive and available to all people carries through in this one um there were uh encourage you to I'm not going to read them all to you but there were some nuances that stuck out in this one in my mind at least when it comes to the work that janana did with the businesses and that's why you you'll see a little bit stronger language in this one about rules and Regulation and guidance and and in my mind and Jana would would give a a much better explanation but this was about um Level Playing Field and being inclusive and enforcing our rules in a way that's fair and Equitable for everybody um so so that did that did sneak into this one uh welcoming and inclusive this one is a direct reflection of the fact that we've got more diversity in the city you know which is one of the driving factors behind why this effort was being undertaken uh one of the the some of the most important voices under behind this theme that we connected with were uh the uh cultural Liaisons at the school and in particular uh I didn't know this when we started but they have specific family nights for different cultures so for example this is a picture of African-American family night which was like the best event of all of them that we did and just so many insightful thoughtful conversations this was at high school so there were older students and parents um so really appreciated that and and also just one-on-one interviews with the cultural Liaisons they were able to say things like well that's important or no they're not going to come to that because they're not going to drive in the winter so you should you know it was that kind of thing uh which which really helped us so uh that's that's uh who we heard from on that one and again here's the here's the aspiration uh about Equity about again proactively facilitating uh opportunities for different cultures so that's that's what this one's about safety and security uh this one uh was was uh how do I want to say it was on my first read I didn't see it I was like well weird that that one dropped off but then when we dug into some of the Nuance it was there but it was maybe embedded in the park comment where it was like I want safer park facility or I want better access to park facilities and I want them to be safe and secure uh another place that this came out again was in the the dialogues with businesses and and uh you know I guess the direct appreciation for things like uh emergency response times that are fast and effective and responsiveness of police INF fire and all of that sort of being being important I think we talked about this last year another another kind of nuance around this one is when I'm out talking to somebody at a park they're not going to think about Safety and Security because that's maybe something that well they already have like but if you ask them is it important to have Fast Response times for an ambulance of course yeah um so anyway that's that's this one and and the nature of some of the comments uh you can you can read but there's an aspiration about it um you know police and fire and maintaining response times and support for police and and fire uh working on neighborhood uh issues there were some comments about crime and and houselessness and and things of that nature that did kind of become become recurring um so so that's that's some of the nature of of those comments and I think there's two more so Housing and Development this one is similar to the the green space one there like there wasn't a lot to say about it but there were a lot of comments and I'll just be really Frank with you they were on we want more development in density or we don't and and it wasn't possible to say you know this is the value that we go with uh that this one clearly won and that's probably not a surprise but what I took from that uh particularly in phase two as we went and started to ask some questions well what does that look like why is it what does it mean to you is that it's really about balance and people value the existing neighborhood structure that is here uh they value those single family you know they they like it that they know their neighborhoods and the kids could grow up together um and they don't want to lose that in favor of you know development that isn't isn't done in an appropriate way to respect that neighborhood character at the same time other people maybe recognize that there is a need for additional housing there is a need for more diverse um opportunities for for businesses you know within the city and and a desire to encourage that so that's it's this balance and it's about doing things intentionally is kind of what we took from that one and that's what we tried to say in the aspirations so we aspire to do that to value our diverse neighborhoods but also to support the changing demographics of the community so that's that's what this one is about in my mind okay and then the last one uh is business and economy this was again a specific Focus that we wanted to uh reach out and talk uh talk with some some of the businesses and just to backtrack a little bit um it the business work that Jana did tracked with the phase one and phase two uh that the broader engagement followed such that we started out with uh a survey that was similar to the community engagement survey but specifically targeted towards business businesses so changing the language changing the audience a little bit you know but generally asking the same types of things and then we came back to them and Janna did the one-on-one uh interviews talking with folks with those draft sort of themes and aspiration statements to try to understand uh where there's alignment or maybe where there's you know Divergence between you know the the broader uh body of input that we were getting and what was happening with business and economy and my my you know my read on it was there wasn't Divergence there was alignment uh but there's more Nuance when it comes to business and there are more specific design desires and needs predictably right you're you're very focused on your own parking lot and that repaving or whatever the case may be um so so those were some of the the comments that we got uh wanting to support small businesses wanting uh the city to uh explore Avenues to help to incentivize things like revitalization and there were a lot of specific ideas within the comments but we intentionally didn't go there um supporting employment opportunities um all of those sort sorts of things the Roseville and Harmar comments also ended up in this category uh rosale rather sorry uh and Harmar comments uh people value those and that's hopefully not a surprise to you but uh rosale came up a lot and people have a like a personal connection to Harmar I don't know it's I thought it was weird because I walked in there and I remember Harmar growing up I went to the movie theater whatever it's fine but um so here are the business aspirations these ones are uh uh largely based on the work that Janna did but you know infused with what we heard from the community as well so uh supporting that diversity uh supporting options across sectors um those those sorts of things uh with a definite focus on small business locally owned no more big box those those types of things so uh that's a lot and I didn't I resisted the urge to read all of that to you intentionally uh but I do want you to read it and go back to it um just didn't want to leave you on a cliffhanger so findings but the findings were really the aspirations but but here they are uh General alignment with with what we heard in the or what you had in the 2006 Community aspirations with with some updates and and I think that's a positive outcome it I think it helps to validate what we did and um so so I think that's good uh it's intended to guide decision making um but it's not a strategic plan and in fact you should I don't you know it's future conversations with staff on exactly how that looks but you'll need to think about what what to do with that next um I think it's important to continue to leverage the relationships with those partner agencies the consultant team was there but uh Corey and Rebecca were at just about everything and they're going to own those relationships moving forward and that's huge um so I mentioned in the Raw data there are a lot of specific issues uh you know property specific things and it would be really pain F to read the many many thousands of comments but there are some key themes around uh things like Highway 36 around schools around you know some things that are that are are specific that we might want to look at and either share with our partners or think about addressing uh so that's that's what that is and then close the feedback loop or continue the feedback loop with the keg with your uh commissions with the community uh Partnerships that we started to build build to to let them know that this wasn't a oneandone uh thing and that the city cares and and values that input so uh that's what I have uh with that I'll i' turn it back to you Mr Mayor and uh happy to have any further discussion answer any questions and we can call on Jana as needed so uh well thank you very much thank you to the staff as well as everybody with Anan and and your your partners um for the work on this and and I appreciate the presentation this evening and certainly appreciate the the final report here I will uh open it up the council members for any feedback questions comments councilman Bratton I I would like to tell you that I appreciate uh some of the intentional Outreach you did I know that we talked early on about that a few times and for you to have found um the lisons and the schools and and specific nights to connect with people uh going to some of these events and uh in our community and using those as an opportunity to connect with people saying hey all these people are stuck in in line for the you know face painting let's just start talking to them um and using those times when people are out um to make sure we're talking to a lot of people so thank you for that right other questions comments feedback customer graph so I did read most of the comments that people made some of them weren't all included yeah you know they they didn't in the summer yeah that's great but um I thought that that was revealing for me it was sort of like door knocking when you're running for reelection and you hear this wide variety of things you know one neighbor here I'll say one thing and two doors down it'll be something totally different so that was helpful for me just to think about those things and um appreciate the work the reports you know very involved and the Outreach you did was impressive I especially like the efforts you made to the B po po community and got more information for us there I wasn't terribly surprised that the aspirations weren't very different from before because one thing you find when you are door knocking in Roseville that most of the people do like living in Roseville and they don't want huge changes in Roseville so um and the same with the development you get that little bit of tension uh tension going on where yes we want housing for people but we don't want to change our little block or our neighborhood so we're very familiar with that other questions thoughts feedback Council M Sher um I agree with um counselor graa I'm not surprised because I to the door door knocking PE you know you say well what would you like to change I you know no you know so many people did not have any um suggestions for change I mean they do have an idea what they'd like and and so on that piece of it and um one just one question you said you had 3500 um participants in this whole thing give or take just just for the um uh uh guesstimate what percentage of those do you think are actually from Roseville because I know some of them were you know um some students aren't from Roseville and some of the lamp posts might not be from Roseville so I'm just curious what percentag is from Roseville yeah uh the answer is almost I would say upwards of 90% I don't have a a a solid way of tabulating for instance if somebody was at rosale they could have been from anywhere but what we did ask in in our both our online survey our mirror the the inperson version of the questionnaire I had a a way to to sus this out and with our hello lamp post is are you a resident and so if I take the results of those exercises and sort of apply that sample to the The Wider body I can say that you know based on that a lot most 90% I think there were like two hello lamp post responses that weren't one of them was where's blooming Dales or something like that like it was like they thought it was the directory you know yeah I know because I read a lot of the comments too and some they talk about like downtown and so we have a downtown that was the one I where's the worst downtown but on that and and actually it's not a bad um feedback to hear what other people think of Roseville if you're coming in as a visitor or a you know you know coming through so it I was just curious so thank you and thank you for the other questions thoughts comments com strong um I just wanted to say that really I heard the same thing and continue to hear the same thing Community Center Splash Pad um those to be seem to be the two things and I know we've talked recently about the potential for a splash P um when I moved here 20 years ago I was told that that Community Center was just around the corner and I don't see it anywhere in the distance who told you that a neighbor you know it wasn't a reliable sour don't name names I don't think they live there anymore um they didn't get a community so yeah they moved um but I do appreciate the time and effort and I do appreciate that kind of the aha moment of going to that African-American family night and um I've long had relationships with the liaison having been a teacher and so I know that they can be kind of a kind of this pan like all of these things right in one place that you were seeking all these places and there it is so I appreciate that you located that but I did we paid them by the way sorry we did oh that's good I'm glad to hear that I know that I was at the Nature Center when you did one of your early events and there was a lot of interest um um from kids and being involved and there was just it was a a well populated table and I appreciated that there was a lot of interest and people wanting to be part of it and continuing to see that for a long period of time so thank you and I I'll just add uh when I first was approaching the the final report and you know I was wondering well what what are we going to get in terms of the the outcomes part of it because that's always kind of the challenging piece and I actually felt uh you know good about it because I thought you know for the most part you can take those and you can start to maybe develop some measurable things that you can that you can apply towards you know what we're doing and so and that's exactly what we went into this what I was hoping we would have is at least the framework or the the point in the direction of putting together some things that we can we can use to measure our progress towards these aspirations because that's always the biggest challenge when you do visioning is that you know it's easy to it's easy to sort of say here's what we want to be um the harder part is to say well what does it mean how do we know we're there you know and and so that that piece of it really really came out well and I wanted to you know say that I appreciated that that that was the case you know I know a lot of work on the part of the the consultant as staff and everybody was involved in in in getting to that point so I did want to emphasize and point that out uh the other thing I I totally agree with the notion of continuing to maintain the relationships that have been developed uh you know I can see us doing uh doing a flashy budget presentation at the next uh at the next you know African-American night at the school or I don't know but you know the that's not a good idea problem but there can be ways to help people connect that don't normally connect to some of these processes you know I mean that that that's the whole point of this is is to to develop those connections and find ways that they can work to help us do a better job of the job we do so I wanted to also acknowledge that that was that was good to see and and can be something that we can build on um so I appreciate that as well and I I look forward to hours of reading all the comments and my eyes will be bloodshot at the end of it but uh you know I I believe that that that's going to also kind of coincide with a lot of what we what we as the elected leaders here either in getting to these seats or in our day-to-day lives here uh so once again thank you to everyone thank you to everybody in the public that did it and and the only thing I wanted to to note is I also agree uh with the community Advisory Group continuing to be perhaps a sounding board through the rest of the the stages of the process um I also thought that to the extent I mean there kind of the easiest targets is not the right word the easiest people to connect with that were involved in the process but but sort of for lack of a better word an exit interview with those folks to say hey what did you think of the process what do you think worked what do you think didn't work what what should we have done differently those kinds of things I think it would be good to at least check in with those folks and if there happened to be a way to to you know to Ping people that participated in the process that we know who they are and we know how to contact them and just say hey you know what's your general feedback you know it always helps us to know how how people feel about you know how it went and and you know once again the outcomes are going to be what they're looking for but but even just to kind of rate the process because we want to understand uh you know probably for for our benefit but even for your own benefit there there may be something uh that you know you can take away as a consultant in this area from that kind of feedback as well other thoughts or questions from the council I do want to provide an opportunity for public comment I don't we don't have a lot of members of the public remaining here this evening but if there is anyone from the public who wishes to speak to this this evening this would be an opportunity to do so and certainly not the last all right very good well thank you again appreciate it very much and I know it was a lot of work and and now you can all go back to your regular lives right or or the work you're doing for other cities in the same area next one more immediately onto the Vikings game there you go go no thank you all right thank you all right that brings us then to uh consideration of so we go from the lofty back to the sort of the the nitty-gritty of our jobs here the uh the consideration of some amendments to uh various portions of title eight of our city code as it relates to the water and sewer uh rates and collection of charges and I'm not sure if it's going to be Mr trudon or Miss Petri looks like Finance director Michelle Petri is going to introduce this item for us uh and start the conversation petrick welcome back thank you um we are proposing a couple of amendments to the ordinance um title 8 Water and Sewer rates and collection of charges specifically section 80111 which relates to the water rates and collection of water charges and section 802.1 two which relates to the Sewer rates and collection of sewer charges currently the city adds a 10% late payment penalty um only on the most recent delinquent bill and we do not currently compound that late payment penalty in talking to some other cities they do compound their late payments so we are proposing to make an amendment to allow for comp compounding of the late payment penalty of 10% um in addition um the city certifies unpaid accounts to the county for collection with property taxes the current practice with regard to delinquent utilities is that any account in excess of 90 days pass due is is brought to the council after we've we notify all the accounts that their 90 days P due and they have a certain date by which they have to pay or we bring it to the council about 54% of the delinquent accounts show up on the list that we provide to the council for certification we have had a $25 administrative fee which the City attorney said should be noted in the ordinance so we're adding that language to the ordinance it's not a new fee it's been in existence that covers all the administrative charges staff time postage Printing and um then certifying it to the county in addition Roseville has merely certified the delinquent account with the late payment late penalty fee and then this administrative fee other cities certify with an interest rate and so we are proposing to add the ability to certify with an interest rate that the county would collect and then remove to us the reason we're recommending this is between our certification process where Bill is 90 days P two by the time we get through the process submit it to the county throughout the year and then it goes on the taxes in the next year it can be up to two years before we collect a delinquent utility account under the current system the financing of a delinquent account is really not that detrimental and I I use that lightly in the sense that 10% is a somewhat Hefty late payment fee but we have people who have been allow their utility counts to be delinquent to get certified to their taxes because there's a nominal additional cost for the city we have incurred the cost we've paid St Paul Regional water we've paid our staff we've paid met councel and our cash flow is impacted by delinquencies we could have factored that in to our utility rates but that's not fair to utility customers who pay in a timely fashion so keeping it really short and sweet that's what we are recommending amending the ordinance to include the compounding of the late payment putting in the fact that we do have an administrative charge and then putting in an interest pay interest rate for the county to charge questions all right uh just one kind of technical question just to understand how the interest rate portion Works in terms of the county collection does so do we certify it say we certify something I know we've got some on our on our um consent agenda tonight that goes to the county sometime after this approval tonight um does the interest start sort of counting until the point when the county collects and they collect the amount plus whatever interest has ured at that rate over the entire time or how how because it would be such a variable number for the account County to keep track of that's what I'm trying to understand well the county has the systems set up because just about every city does have an interest rate that they certify okay um we would not be putting this into place with tonight's delinquent right we would put it in with the 24 delinquencies and generally speaking while we certify four times a year the county actually does not put it on the taxes till the end of the year so they would put it on as of January 1 with 8% until it's paid whether that's first half or second half or if it's not paid in the first or second half it would continue until it's paid it would not continue because these are one-year assessments gotcha okay um so they would stay on the tax role but interest wouldn't continue to acre because it's a one-year assessment only I see okay so the interest rate just applies to the one year for collection purposes correct okay correct other questions from the council Council M so how often are the accounts paid within that year are are people generally paying up are they catching up within that year or is there a a reason to continue that assessment Beyond a year or is that possible uh generally speaking most cities only do it as a one-year assessment um the only assessments that that I'm aware of that go beyond one year are Street related okay thank you so and just to clarify that so does that mean that after the end of the year the it doesn't mean they don't have to pay it anymore no it just no longer is charged interest correct I see but it's it's accumulated the interest over the course of that year okay correct council member so following on that what if they don't pay their taxes to the at all after six years the property becomes tax delinquent and goes through the forfeiture process and ultimately is sold and at some point in the future we would get hopefully some of the delinquent but we wouldn't get it it for the years after the one year no that would oh that's interesting unless obviously they have subsequent delinquencies that would be added in so um just trying to trying to clarify this too um so and of course the state has a whole mechanis or this the county has a whole mechanism to collect property taxes and it's largely by state law um but um I forgot my train of thoughts so I'm going to defer to council member schroer and I'll Circle back to it maybe actually uh Mr Mayor I actually those exact questions I had asked earlier and so I probably should have shared that with the council my answers that I got because that's exactly what I asked is is this interest going to go on forever and then if they didn't pay their property taxes how would that look but um I do like um your point about people can say well I had my 10% you know and my 25 bucks and I don't so now I can take a whole another year to pay it off and not have any more penalty or fee on it you know so that in a way if you're if you already AC accumulated that why not try to put it off even longer because of you're right it's it's the cost of money just got really small so yeah so that was a very good point so thank you for clarifying that all right if there aren't other questions from the council I believe we are being asked to adopt these changes this evening I do want to provide an opportunity for members of the public to speak to this there are any questions or comments on this proposed ordinance change that anyone members of the public may have this would be an opportunity to do so all right seeing no one come forward um we have the proposed uh request changes and I believe both in this case in each case there would be an ordinance adoption as as well as approval of a publication of an ordinance summary corre because the complexity of the the language uh thoughts from the council Andor motion I would move um I would move that the council recommend adopting by separate action it says the ordinance amending title 8 section 801 i' second it and just to clarify is there any reason we can't adopt two ordinances with one motion I don't think so and then two resolutions y all right so if that's desire of the maker of the motion well I would do that I would add the second so was it was moved by council member graph I for forgot who second second Council M schroer and I was so interested in asking my clarifying question I so this is to adopt both ordinance changes the change to section uh related to the water as well as the change related to the Sewer discussion on the motion as the maker of the motion well the thing that I've noticed believe it or not I do read those delinquencies when they come through and not that I know everyone checking to see if you're on it yeah kind of that too but but also that there is rep repetition in there and so I think we have to find some way to I mean this is a small thing but maybe this will get people's attention to just we just want them to pay on time we don't we don't want to do these penalties we don't want to do compounded interest just pay the bill on time and we don't have to do it but maybe this will be be an incentive to catch their attention that's why I'm supporting it right and as the Secor of the motion council member schroer anything no well said then that's that's that's enough any other discussion you know I think the only thing I'll will add is certainly people who are in difficult Financial Straits um deserve respect and sympathy yes and and certainly that's exactly I think the the intention however as with any uh debt that is incurred whether it's with the city of radville for utility fees or or the county for property taxes or uh your credit card company or whatever it is you know it is an obligation that that one has uh to to make and certainly you know there are ways that one can work with their finances to provide an ability to pay um and pay penalties and I know we've had cases where we've been working with people for quite some time to try to work through their difficulties uh before it even gets to a point of being certified the taxes I think that's sort of our last resort in our process anyway um so you know we we we want to be sympathetic we want to be helpful we want to work with people uh but we also do want people to you know take their obligations seriously and ultimately um pay those and so I'm supportive of these changes there's no other uh comments on the uh motion we've got the motion to adopt both ordinance changes all those in favor signify by saying I I opposed that passes unanimously is there a motion on the authorization to publish the summaries so moved second moved by Council St second by council member etton to authorize publication of ordinance summaries by the resolutions in the packet um is there any further discussion on that motion all right hearing none once again this requires a two-thirds majority all those in favor signify by saying I I I opposed that passes unanimously meeting that two-thirds requirement all right thank you again to staff for working on this um and then finally uh under business items we have a discussion related to to uh our task we assigned to our commissions earlier to uh talk about their scope duties and functions uh and so I'm not sure who's going to lead off the conversation on this is that going to be Mr treer uh I didn't really have anything defer to council member I would mention there is um a bench hand out here today that um if you looked in your packet there was some uh the bottom of the comments of the finance commission there was some actual letters missing so somehow when we converted it uh to the digital packet it it lost it so this uh this is here just with a complete um um comments from the finance commission chair regarding their work on there so just wanted to point that out in case you looked at your packet and didn't make any sense thank you thank you and I know this is an item that was sort of spearheaded by council member Aton I don't know if Council you wanted to sort of kick off the conversation I think it'll take a couple hours that's sure that's why we took our break an hour ago I can't no no I won't but um hopefully you found kind of in the middle of the attachments the summary uh that uh Mr trudon put together um I think it does a pretty good job of saying hey what did people look at but you really have to look each um commission's work here we have the um original uh city code and then um at the beginning of each different section of uh each commission there's here sections that they are looking at changing uh different commissions panel this really differently um uh some did not consider some of the questions like number of me Members or frequency of meetings um I don't know if that was just they were also overwhelmed or they were super comfortable with it or sometimes people like what they're doing even if they don't like what they're doing right so anyway so that's there um uh I think the next thing we would look at the first thing is do we want to go forward with the updates um in it bringing back kind of a draft thing with uh cross outs and underlines and things like that as the commissions have brought forward um we can just try to do that uh do we want to consider blending and sort of amending some of those things there were two that made Fairly large changes the largest of those H completely rewrote their code um and um Park and wreck added a lot of items to their code so do we want to filter some of that um either with members of those commissions or with a subset of our Council or both um the next thing I think we should think about uh is considering adjusting some of the number of meetings for some of these uh many again did not consider it but um are there different formats we've talked about this off and on for several years there are some commissions that I was surprised at how little we got back from them considering their frustrations that they have come to the council with over the last few years um and that's fine that's you know like that's what they they brought back but um are there times to to format things differently cut back on some of the things for example despite a former chair being down the day asked from me does the finance commission need to meet 11 12 months a year or could it follow more of the budget cycle and have the ability to meet for special meetings um as are needed to follow projects for finance uh bigger finance things um uh the H one of the things that we hear is uh concerned about um the amount of time it takes as they are they've done a fantastic job in the last year or two getting members out and being at events and running tables and things like that do we change the number of regular meetings to reflect that additional work in the community which work we've asked them to do um but there's a total amount of time people can can commit to a city um before they become overwhelmed and say well that's more than I can do so is there an adjustment that we think about um there for whether those commissions or others um the final one that I feel like a sitting out there I don't know if we want to discuss it but is around um several commissions have their fingers and want some thoughts on the environment and it's interesting that came out in our aspirations as moving up um but we've got uh Peet Public Works environment and transportation and we have Park and wreck that is doing a lot of environmental work as our tree board and other things within the parks and then the Planning Commission said hey how about us um so I even thought similarly to how we do the um um what's the ethics ethics many thank you um do we have at the uh Peet environmental super meeting do we have two members from Parks and two from planning to be there and or look for ways to kind of have a few uh meetings a year where those commissions come together and um Talk uh subsets about the environment how they can work cohesively around that or not so those are the different framings I have that I open the floor to anyone to shoot those ideas down or come up with new ones or whatever all right who's ready to shoot some ideas no council no I appreciated what you first of all I appreciate that you took this on because I think it's super important um it was so inconsistent um and I wonder too when we've tasked some groups with a lot of things and they've come through we do note that we often don't see people on the HRI see make it a full term MH um you know so maybe looking at what other options might exist do we add a couple Commissioners do we have subcommission do does that change in some way I don't know what that looks like I just I appreciate that kind of being but I what came to me was wondering if we take advantage of the skills of um Shannon prayther who you know fabulous word smithing skills if if there could be some consistency across these so they're written similarly and that would make it easier for us to be able to look at them side by side because right now they're very different from one another it's like comparing an apple to a hippopotamus they're just very different and so if we had similar then I think it'd be easier for us to like yeah maybe this is what we want to do but I appreciate that this conversation was started or more than started Advanced and I appreciate you know that we I think this is good for everyone involved because knowing what is expected of you is back to those conversations even at the you know at the interview when we ask people what they want to do and they really don't know because they it it's hard enough for the people on the commission to know so I think it's a fabulous start and I thank you for you opening the conversation Council M sh yes I agree I think the formats really need to be the same because they were all really different you would not know that they were from the same organization so so that I I think that would be very important um getting to some of the comments that um uh Mr ett and down there talked about was actually on the finance commission I actually think they could be more involved with the other commissions on helping them figure out like how they're working on things and how could that financially affect the city and other things too so when you talk about getting people together from different commissions to discuss like sustainability I actually think um um the idea of possibly even having that maybe all the chairs or or subgroups can get together and talk about different things they can work together with the commissions and I think I've had a couple people ask me on some of the commissions well how does this affect things financially and that's where I think the finance commission could work with some of these other ones to help them look at their their funds you know they got these big funds and their 20-year plan and some of these other things and so I do think there's some um back and forth on there and and I have to say I was a bit disappointed that some of them like the finance commission did very little um except for the one little email on on the purpose statement I I really thought that um there could have been a better expansion on that but that's just my view and um and I do think think that there could be some cross that one I think is really important and that would be new for us to do so how does that look and of course then you know if you become charity you want to have an additional meeting you know I don't know we talk about people spending too much time on all this different stuff but I do think that there's some cross-pollination that could really be useful so I I do agree with that side of it so as in what how do we go forward with this I do think there needs to be some conversation about and maybe we need to look at I can't imagine we can come to a conclusion tonight on this no this not to be decided tonight I would say we probably I like the idea of going through and you know you know let's have the red line version because some of them did that but some of them didn't let's let's this is fine this little chart but I'd like to see it in the actual you know Charter that we have for each of those and I think that would be a starting point and then um also I think there might be um more thoughts the Comm or the council can do is what is it that we want these groups to do our commissions to do and maybe we've gotten some feedback from what their thoughts are they can do and now maybe we can take that and add in some more and say well yeah that's great as a council maybe there's these other aspirations that you need to work on especially if we're trying to keep the city moving forward so anyways that's just some some of my thoughts I just say in response to that I totally agree I just I know that we can't be experts on everything so it's really nice if the P decided to you know approve something you know and this is why you know that's really important for them to understand a it's really important for us we appreciate and we value what they say um but I think just kind of making that give take a little bit more clear you know of here's why we want you here here's the purpose that we see here's what you see and then finding that kind of that intersection because I don't know if they always you know the bend diagram might be kind of wide but finding it be more inclusive and expectations clear counc gra thoughts oh you know I think I'm very impressed that this got going because this has kind of been hanging around for how many years several and council member at finally took the B by the horns and kind of went out there actually met with the different uh commissions and I think that was really an important piece that was different than what we've done in the past as far as I can recall um I liked what I've heard all of you are right I I agree with all the statements that have been made tonight I just don't need think I need to add to those things the number of meetings you know we always struggle with that um I would want more input on that especially if we're going to change the scope and you know we that that would be the last piece to probably address um and the number of members too so continue on is what I would say I'm sorry I did not acknowledge you also as a former chair there lot of former chair sitting in different I'm sure there are former Parts chair yeah right but I would have to finance chair I won't hold it again uh I do want to kind of circle back on a couple of things so specific to the you mentioned H probably made the most substantive changes to their code I think it might make sense to have a joint discussion between the council and the members anyone who wants to participate doesn't have to be the whole commission unless what they want it to be uh you know at a work session maybe to talk through some of that good because we want to understand it better and they may have more clarification they can provide about why they why they did what they did and and and I think that's important I think also in that same conversation it would make sense for any commission that we're talking about changing membership numbers or numbers of meetings where they didn't weigh in on that at all I would definitely want to make sure we have the ability to have that because I think specific to the I'm very worried that the for any commission the meetings are the only place they can do their business just like our council meeting the only place we can do our business if we limit that opportunity then they may not be able to do as much business and you know and so we just need to understand that and I think they have to be able to weigh in on that and so I would suggest that as part of it as well um I I'm I'm kind of formulating the notion of an idea of sort of a working group that that periodically meets that's more informal among the chairs and vice chairs of each commission and they uh they can set their own agenda they can be it can be pretty informal it's not a official City commission meeting so hopefully we don't have a lot of open meeting issues certainly that's not a majority of any one commission um so that and they they could talk about how they could work together on environmental issues or how they could work on financial matters uh and give us some insight on it I think that might make some sense to maybe if we want to establish a group like that those could be maybe the first couple of sort of assignments for them to to look at um and provide some feedback to us such consternation from the attorney it's past my bedtime well no connation no conation we pay you to have conation usually if I am getting in trouble with our City attorney they're leaping across the day to cut me off but but no I think that might make some sense to to talk about that and I understand we may not want you know to ask people to do more things but the on the other hand if we want people to to make better connections and I know we've heard from commission members that they can't you know they can't sort of have informal Gatherings because of what meting L issues and they've been scared to death by our attorney about that so if we can have a group that isn't subject to that where there could be some of that interc commmission interaction on an informal basis and and an ability to talk through some things and maybe jointly recommend things and they can then maybe go back to commissions for weighing and in an input and official commission recommendations to the council or however we you know it may be kind of sort of ad hoc as as individual situations or issues arise maybe we experiment with that a little bit in the coming you know months and and that might be a way to figure out how to deal with a couple of those issues financial and environmental issues and how we how we deal with more than one commission being interested in them um I do feel that rewriting is very close to the top of things that need to happen first well I think I think yeah there's definitely like that technical rewriting where I think every commission needs to have that purpose statement and we need to make sure that's all refined and good and then the the formatting and consistency issues are dealt with across all the commissions I think that process should be sort of on a parallel track to a lot of this I agree thanks for reminding us does that help kind of guide the next steps of the process and and what council member is going to do quit his day job and work on I want to make sure yes tomorrow okay Rachel's got it you're off for holiday break come up come on SO and that's a good point is you know what's our time frame and expectations for some of this stuff too is probably a good thing to to talk a little bit about because we we certainly don't want to um make it difficult for anybody to get get through any of these next steps if I could I just uh may had thought um is who's going to own moving this going ahead certainly staff can help but I think it's important council is helping Drive some of this um as far as whether it's consistency and informal review before we bring something forward aison with the commissions at the appropriate times whenever that may need to happen I think it's totally doable for instance the HRC to bring them back um at a work session and have some clarification sooner than later uh but what about the other commissions and you know who's if I'm going to be the main point person on the staff side for this is there a subcomittee of council members working on it or one or two of you or who should I interact with I think it couldn't be any more than two of us sure unless we want to have more Council meetings but um first of all council member would you like to continue to to work on this I cannot wait okay and is there somebody who would like to join uh council member Aton as a member of this informal ad hoc subcommittee commission I would be happy there we go all right I think and I think that's that's an idea I was going to suggest also I think that makes some sense and we'll review Pat at the same time Pur because it's the same group isn't it yes yes okay all right well I appreciate all all the work that our commissions did and certainly the work that council member did to get and and to prod us to get us to this point so um I think it's a good start and I think we've got some some things we can be doing to continue to improve this all right that wasn't two hours next yeah we have a consideration of city council and Eda minutes we've got the uh Council minutes from October 23rd we've got our Eda and Council minutes from November 6th those have been circulated to council members uh changes of directions have been uh made as a result of that excuse me that process and we've got those before us for cons consideration this evening I'll check are there any uh changes or Corrections the council members would like to make to any of those minutes as they're presented to us this evening otherwise a motion to approve one or two or all of them would be in order I would move to approve all of them second right that was an eager second council member shorter moves uh council member gra seconds approval of all those three minutes as presented any discussion on the motion all right hearing none all those in favor signify by saying I I oppos that passes unanimously those minutes are approved that brings us to the well afor mentioned uh consent agenda I mentioned it in the first two minutes of the meeting coun Mr Tron would you give us a brief summary of the consent items this yes uh thank you Mr Mayor uh item 10A approves payment payments in the amount of 2,262 24 item 10B approves 2024 business licenses for 10 recycling haulers 13 Solid Waste hollers one pawn shop and precious metal dealer and 10 THC retail licenses item 10c certifies unpaid utility and other charges to the 2024 property tax rills I would Note One exception and it was brought up earlier in the meeting the 2719 Lexington Avenue is the strip mall that we actually own across the street um that is in the top of Page Three I think if you look at the attachments um that was inadvertently added to it since we own it uh what happens is that the management company collects as part of the rent and the cam fees fees and it's paid uh through the management company not the individual tenants we had a transition from Gone companies to mof companies and somehow that got dropped and it got inadvertently in inadvertently added to this list so we do not want to certify that because we're just certifying to oursel we are making uh they're working on it today to get that payment uh full today uh because the money's on hand it's just it was confusion on who was responsible for that so uh as part of this approval for the certification uh we' be the list contained in schedule a except for those two property two accounts one's in irrigation other ones for the uh uh water service at 2719 Lexington Avenue it's a clarification um moving on item 10d approves an extension of the contract with timesaver off-site secretarial services for recording city council and City commission meeting minutes uh item 10e approves entering into a labor agreement with intern National Association of local firef or firefighters local 5051 the contract will run for two years from January 1st 2024 to December 31st 2025 as part of the agreement the firefighters will receive a 4% Market adjustment and 3% cost of living adjustments to their wages in 24 and in 25 this agreement has been ratified by union members item 10f approves entered into Professional Services agreement with Bolton and mink to provide Engineering Services uh for the Dale uh Dale aaso sanitary lift station project item 10g authorizes the extension of the addendum to the Minnesota Wildlife Rehabilitation Center ground lease in rosille Central Park this lease addendum requires a Wildlife Rehabilitation Center to construct parking a parking lot and driveway improvements should they be necessary in the future this Le addendum has been extended several times previously and this action will extend the arrangement until the end of 2028 then finally item 10h approves a 3.2% benefit increase for the members of the Rosal fire uh relief Association in accordance with resolution 10442 that ties the annual increase to the Social Security cost of living allowance and that is the consent agenda all right thank you Mr trudon is there a motion on the consent agenda it so moved second removed by council member ston second by council member Aton to approve the consent agenda items as outlined with the note of the change to exclude the property at uh 2719 Lexington from the certification roles on that item which is uh 10 SE with that we've got the motion is there any discussion on the motion hearing none all those in favor signify by saying I I opposed that passes unanimously those items are approved and that brings us then to our future agenda review Mr Tron once again I know you're aware of it and nobody's counting but we have one more council meeting left this year and that is next Monday uh that is uh the big one for the budget as we uh little too earlier so we'll be looking to adopt the final budget and Levy adopt the fee schedule and adopt the uh 2024 utility rates we also want to have a couple other uh discussion items one regarding short-term regulations discussion this has been something we talked about earlier in the year finally getting back in front of you just to continue talk uh talking about potential changes we're not looking for any specific approvals that night more of a discussion and guidance um we also will have some HC members speaking of them here uh talking about their plans for highlighting City proclamations next year is more of an informational uh share we also want to discuss 2020 4 legislative priorities the session starts I think early February um so we do want to get this done um but uh as I was looking through the list and preparing the case already quite a lot of our existing priorities have been adopted this last session so might be a smaller list unless we want to add more to it so we'll go through that I do expect that'll be the initial touch as you can see in January we'll probably come back and just try to ratify that up then also uh parks and rack have uh a natural resources contractor is ready for approval so we'll look to approve that our next meeting after that won't be until January 8th and we'll do some of our normal business items with the acting mayor city council ason uh city council advisory commission rules of procedure uh and then I'll discuss or declare any uh commission vacancies as we've been reaching out to people as they up for Renewal and also received the public uh Works plan work plan uh for 2024 and like I said continue our work on legislative priorities and there'll be probably a few other items added given that gap of time that we may uh throw up out on the council agenda I would note uh beyond that we have three meetings in January so one of them can cons serve as a work session so i' probably Target that for bringing the HRC back if they can make it uh for that to continue the discussion about the commission scope and duties right and certainly one of those meetings we'll probably have our ordinance update on the um going to four yes Four January 8 I think that should be that any uh questions on the upcoming agenda or council member requested agenda items uh or L on reports announcements all right hearing none then the only item left on our agenda is adjournment so moved second it's been moved by council member St seconded by council member gra to adjourn no discussion on a motion to adjourn all those in favor signify by saying I I oppos that passes unanimously and we are adjourned at 97 thank you everyone