two minutes one minute ten seconds you may begin good evening everyone and welcome to the special work session of the Burnsville City Council meeting it is 609 the clerk will note that all council members are present tonight's meeting is being conducted virtually and all of the City Council members and our staff are all joining us electronically so members of the public may watch this meeting online at urns vel dub slash meetings or Comcast channel 16 or 8 v 9 if you would like to speak during the meeting you may call six five one three seven two eight two nine nine you may also speak by joining us online at zoom dot us slash joining more information is available on our meeting web page and in the council agenda packet please note that there is an audio delay if you are watching us on TV or online so if you speak please mute your video broadcasts first and so our council work sessions are very informal and we go directly to our item so the first item on the agenda this evening is the county assessors valuation update and joining us from the county is scott lyons dakota county assessor and mr. Lyons welcome hello madam maro mayor and councilmembers I'm Scott Lyons with Dakota County assessing services thank you for having me tonight to give you a bit of an update on our office and our structure and some of the rules and laws that we follow I've been with the County Assessor's Office for 29 years actually and I've been recently appointed the county assessor about nine months ago next slide please so my agenda my agenda will be covering some of the overview of our assessing services department we'll talk about our two main functions as Assessors I'll cover some dakota county statistics and also Burnsville statistics and they will be in red throughout the presentation I'll talk a bit about how market value is determined will cover the valuation notice an appeal process and I'll give you some ideas on how it defined property information online next slide please so assessing services as part of the public services and revenue division at Dakota County we have a countywide assessment system meaning that there is no local or City County City Assessors with we're completely countywide and we cover all 34 taxing districts about 580 square miles countywide we currently have over 160 2000 parcels and our 2020 market value has now exceeded 56 and a half billion dollars next slide please this is a chart of our office we have four main appraisal and assessment sections and we have currently have 40 full-time employees my deputy is also our residential manager his name is Joel Miller he's been with us 27 years our commercial manager is Dustin Henricks he's been with us 25 years and our administration manager is Don Klein she has been with us 33 years and our newest is our systems manager Mike Niemeyer he's been with us seven years quite a bit of institutional knowledge if you will on our management team next slide please so I'm just going to touch based on a couple of links here that you can go to the first two and the last one the first two links are from the Department of Revenue if you want to learn anything about what we do as Assessors throughout Minnesota that first link is WWE Avenue State MN us for slash property tax administrators manual you can download 602 pages that'll tell you everything that we have to do the next one is the Department of Revenue sales ratio study this is a key document that we also refer to this year for the 2020 study that covers 57 pages you can also download that that'll tell you everything about our main tool that we use to adjust our assessment the very last link on the bottom is the Minnesota tax court link you can go to the Minnesota gov overed slash tax court and search any case that has occurred in Minnesota for a number of years going back in history to find how tax court has ruled for a tax payer for the county on different property tax appeals next slide please so our two main functions as Assessors is to classify all property and to value all property our statutory assessment date is January 2nd of each year state law requires us to appraise for 100% of market value now market value is basically the price that would prevail under open competitive market conditions Assessors also physically revalue 20% of the county each year and we are to consider all factors that affect market value so in a sense we are seeking fee simple market value next page please I'll talk about the DOR ratio study a little bit for the 2020s we are specifically required to look at sales that fall between October 1st of 18 through September 30th of 19 to establish our 2020 assessment a sale one day on either side of that eight range is not included in establishing our 2020 assessment the Department of Revenue does require us an Assessor throughout the state to carry our median sales ratios between 90 and 105 percent of market value for 2020 our medians for all major property groups throughout the county do fall between ninety four point eight and ninety six point six percent common misconception it's kind of going away now but Assessors raise taxes no we don't the Assessors market value and classification is used to spread the tax burden of local governments next slide please so these are our final sale counts and median ratios for the county and for Burnsville specifically as you can see in the top we analyzed 6839 sales in the residential category for this assessment we've carried our median level of assessment at ninety five percent some of the other main categories are apartments commercial and industrial and you can see that those have less qualified sales throughout the county that are used to judge and guide our assessment but we've statutorily find ourselves right in around the 95 percent again Burnsville now when we get down to just the city of Burnsville we have 954 residential sales that were included in this sales ratio study we carry out the median came in at ninety four point nine percent the other categories again it's a little more difficult with less market data Apartments only had three sales commercial twelve sales and industrial seven sales for the city next slide please other main function is classification this is something that we do determine annually and it is based on the primary or actual use of the property and it could be multiple classifications such as a property that split class residential and commercial now this classification is completely independent of zoning and comprehensive land use some examples of course our homestead at residential and I'm Homestead residential commercial industrial apartment agricultural and there are quite a few more actually next slide please ok this slide shows us some of the 2020 market value summary data our 2020 value Nate valuation notices were mailed March 9th that's our 2020 market value which is used for the basis of the 2021 taxes and this is mailed along with the 2020 tax statements so countywide our total estimated market value has increased 5.6 percent it's a little over 50 6.5 billion Burnsville increased 4.8% to a little over seven point six billion and our taxable market value that's gone up a little more that is at six point one percent increase to 54 point seven billion in Burnsville increased 5.2 percent roughly to seven point three nine billion now taxable market value went up a little more than estimated market value due to the phase-out of the homestead market value exclusion his properties increase in value they get less of that exclusion on the residential side next slide please Tony wide we added a little over six hundred and forty million dollars in new construction Burnsville had 51 point four million and new construction value added this year the rates below here are our 2020 median value changes for the main categories this is an example you can see residential countywide our median change was 3.1 percent across the county Burnsville specifically it was two point nine nine townhouses and condos were a stronger category within the residential market as you can see Burnsville went up 6.6% for townhouses and condos about eight point three percent apartments seven and a half to eight percent countywide including Burnsville commercial is about four and a half percent increase also over last year and industrial has been a very strong sector we increased values on average ten percent Burnsville is nine point four four percent next slide please so how is market value determined well Assessors appraisers for the county view property gather information analyze sales and then compute values next slide and I mentioned that we are required to view property once every five years we do inspect new construction annually all the cities and townships submit all the building permit data that we review and inspect for addition to our assessment for property revaluation we divide the county into quintiles so we can inspect 150 year residential is split by geographic area within a city commercial industrial is split by larger categories county wide so we can do all hotels in one year office another year retail and so on that helps us with efficiencies and equalization amongst all the property so we use different inspection methods for efficiency and accuracy and with this coded 19 endemic obviously we are not going out to properties we are doing a lot more a desktop review in order to do that we have some tools that have been invested in by the county over the last few years one is called Pictometry and another is called near map these are available online I'll show you later but these are aerial and oblique imagery of homes that allow an Assessor to virtually circle home and zoom in to check on condition and quality we also have a street-level imagery that was driven by another company a couple of years ago that it provides us high high imagery quality imagery of this street so we don't know when we're gonna get back to doing physical inspections but as as we're currently doing reviews right now on our 20/20 assessment we've we've been pretty creative homeowners have actually engaged in facetime inspections with my staff have sent in videos and pictures of their homes and interior finish to allow us to continue to do our statutory jobs next slide please so another part is gathering information and appraisers gather information on all characteristics of the property that affect market value we are required by law to carry a separate value for land and buildings and if land is vacant and doesn't have any identifiable use we must class it based on its highest and best use highest and best use has four tests which measure its physical possibility legally permissible financially feasible and most productive use of the site next slide please so some of the characteristics that we collect on property of course is the size we measure the exterior of all homes and businesses in the county we categorized property by style you know is it a two-story home is it a split entry things like that we tracked the age when it was built because we must account for depreciation and diminished or outdated utility and we also estimate an effective age that it takes into account any improvements or enhancements to a property you know we look at the quality of construction the quality basement to finish the amount of basement finish course bedrooms and bathrooms you know and in other outbuildings our yard items such as decks or quartz sheds pools things like that next slide please so I mentioned the sales ratio study this basically is our primary tool to guide and determine our market values for all properties in the county basically we slice and dice all sales and we look at them in all manners to isolate market changes and market value of components of the different property types this allows us to determine and replicate basically the market trends now we've consistently meet the statutory requirements of our level of assessment that we've met the state board of equalizations requirements for the last 26 years and there's not too many jurisdictions in Minnesota that can claim that so we have a very sound and statistically significant assessment next page please so as far as computing value you know most of our properties are valued using a canvas system it's a computer-aided mass appraisal program our current vendor is Tyler technologies they are actually worldwide with their platform and we went live and started our assessment with that platform starting with our 2012 assessment and it's an Assessor it necessary to appraise 162,000 parcels annually just can't do something like that with a staff of 40 people without the efficiencies of the cama system so we enter all the characteristics of these properties into the system we analyze and enter all the sales information that reflects the market trends then we analyze down to individual features and neighborhoods to make our adjustments year to year next slide please so once we establish values of course we male value notices and they went out March 9th this year and they're usually always in early March for this time it starts our appeal process for taxes payable in 2021 a review period will be ending in about two weeks when the special court of appeal and equalization wheats that will be on June 1st next slide please so when taxpayers if their value notices we refer and ask that they go and visit property information online they go to WWE account us Forge lash home in property there they can find a lot of information about all of their neighbors and all the property in the county they can look at all of the aerial maps and see statistics countywide they can find sales compare their property to their property to those sales - to see if they have an issue with us and you know of course sometimes they do we ask them to contact us during this informal open-book period we call it and during this open book period we historically have had in-person scheduled meetings at three different service centers of course this year we had to cancel those and asked all the tax payers to call us an email us which they have done the next item there is a local board of Appeal and equalization most of the jurisdictions in Dakota County have turned over those requirements to the special County Board of an appeal in equalization Burnsville did it I think more than 25 years ago the only one we have left is Vermillion Township that retains those duties and I'm hopeful I can convince them to turn their duties over the county board by next year if the county board of Appeal in equalization that is really the last informal step for a taxpayer to appeal their value or classification historically not many people have attended this we really strive hard to resolve issues with the taxpayers before this meeting we are constantly in contact and correcting the physical data on their properties explaining and educating taxpayer on our appraisal process and our requirements as Assessors but on occasion you know you can't see eye to eye so the county board sits as an impartial body this problem this board is appointed by the county commissioners their public appointees that have some expertise in real estate we have real estate attorneys we have bank appraisers we have mortgage bankers all kinds of people that have been appointed to this board over the years this year for June 1st we have right now about 5 parties signed up for the board we do not know if they will all go last year we had none the year before we had to the last bullet Minnesota tax court to appeal your market value or classification has just been published here you have until April 30th taxes payable in 2021 to formally appeal in the Minnesota Tax Court that's usually an avenue that's reserved by you know higher valued commercial and apartment owners and last year we had 195 Tax Court cases countywide this year we do not know the final count yet but we would expect it to be similar even given the co bid pandemic I can see this increasing as we go forward the next couple of years next slide please there's a little bit of a duplicate of data here but some more ways to contact us again the internet website Dakota County died us there's a central phone number that people have been calling historically of course they reach us and assessing services directly and through email in person is is closed obviously we are all working remotely now and we do not know that we will actually be brought back to the county through the remainder of the summer so at some point in the future we will open back up next slide please this is just a screen capture of where to go on our website and you can see across the top tabs all of our data is housed under the home and property that is your spot to go to for all assessment related data and information on rules and procedures and look at aerial and online maps we are constantly reviewing and trying to enhance and provide more data for self-service to the website which has been a very significant improvement for data delivery next page please some of you have possibly gone to this website before this is this it's significant use countywide this is the Dakota County interactive GIS map if you drill down to the GI the interactive GIS map link you can see on your left hand side map layers there's all kinds of layers that are available to click on and lay over the maps I know there was some interest in the market value percent change or commonly called a heat map and that is available on the website if you click on the parcels estimated market value a percent change but next slide please when you do zoom in on a parcel you'll see now for this year and last we added property sketches and property tax statements so you can click on any parcel in the county you can see who owns it you can see the tax statements you can look at the product the parcels sketch as made by the Assessor you can look at recent sales all kinds of data you can you can zoom in on your Pictometry link and near map link on the top you can circle around a property look at all different angles of the property it's it's a heavily used site that has relieved thousands and thousands of phone calls for office from realtor's and Real Estate Appraisers asking to talk to Assessors and trying to get data so next slide please it's just an example of a sketch that is out there this this property is a two-story with finished basement looks like they have some kind of a gazebo or something in there their yard the the grid on the right will show you the grill the gross area of the building and then also living area and this has also been a significant improvement that's driven down calls door office next slide please tax estimates this has been out on the web for many years our Taxation Department maintains and updates this it's historically we had received numerous calls from tax payers ranging from what would it call well my taxes change if I add a new deck to you know how much is this new hundred thousand-square-foot warehouse going to be taxed so another tool for self-service we we don't tell them how to use it we just one in there and say putting your estimate of value or look at some of your competitors properties and put in your put in their estimated value to give yourself an estimate of taxes so another another heavily used part of our website and next slide I guess with that is there any questions for me if you happen to have an ink your muted mints thank you miss reliance for the presentation I don't have a question so much as I have a statement I use Coney websites pretty much daily in my career as an insurance agent and Dakota County stands along as probably the best as far as what you all provide and ease of use and so I just wanted to say thank you for providing a really superior product if you could call the folks at Hennepin County and tell them to do what you guys do it would be appreciated I could definitely talk to my peers and thank you for the feedback and if you ever do see ways that we can improve it please let me know absolutely thank you very much I'm going to go to miss rody Jenny do you have anything to add your your the contact person for this item I guess I don't have anything to add I want to thank Scott for for coming and presenting to us this evening but I don't have anything additional on this item yeah you know I'm really glad that we've done this we haven't done this in a long time I don't know the last time Scott the County Assessor has been in but it was someone other than you yeah it was probably many years yeah yeah so this is really nice so thank you Melanie and Jenny and Greg for bringing this item because I I will tell you that our residents would appreciate this so Scott you're you're a PowerPoint will they be available for us yes I I sent that to your staff so it's available okay so that would be great perhaps it might Milani I was just listening and wondering if that could be a resource on our website so if people went and then we can direct them to the county if they're asking because this was really good it's good to always have refreshers on all of this is there anyone else any comments any questions for Scott or Jenna well thank you so much Jenny and Scott really appreciate your coming in Scott and educating us at anytime okay thank you thank you okay the next item is our city fee philosophy discussion and the review of the city's philosophy there's no action required here and Melanie this is yours yes madam mayor and council this is a carryover from the all-day work session earlier this year and why don't we go to the next slide please the council had asked for consideration of how we look at our city fees so I thought it'd be helpful to walk through one of the foundational documents that we have in place city policy 1.2 but oh is our financial plan within it it talks about several objectives of of our financial plan stability being based on some principles distributing the cost of services so having a diverse revenue sources preventing deterioration of our public facilities protecting our credit rating and its use of a reference for city staff but also for the City Council as we make financial decisions next slide please so within here I just wanted to break down how the general fund budget our overall budget is diversified you see that property taxes charges for services and all other sources so within our general fund budget charges for services make up up 21% next slide please and then within our overall budget is slightly larger at I'm sorry I'm not seeing that number in front of me at 31% excuse me so you can see that that we've got a diverse revenue stream when we think about how we allocate our revenue how we collect revenue next slide please within finance financial policy 1.25 zero there is information than that this information has been contained in your background materials but I just included the highlights here are the criteria that have been established for your fees and charges so there's a market comparison from the vast majority of our fees fall under this criteria if the intent is to set keys in the upper quartile of the market we use our pure communities I believe there's a 13 of those communities that we compare against and so that's our market there's a maximum set by external source for some fees the state or other entities may restrict what that he can what that charge can be establish that there's an entrepreneurial approach meaning we're looking to be at the top of the market for those fees recovering the cost of service simply that the program those fees will be self-supporting for the concept tapes to provide that service and finally we have utility fees and we say that we're gonna complete a review of our rate study annually which we do and this year we're actually doing a deeper dive into our utility rates to see how we can if there's any adjustments we want to make for a sustainable utility fee structure next slide please so as the council visits through this and talks through this we've outlined a couple policy considerations help guide the discussion in so I'll ask the council has the criteria the current criteria is that sufficient to capture your policy goals for service fees and charges is there any other criteria you may like to consider or is there any additional information that we can provide us with that happy to stand for any questions or let the council discuss members of the council any thoughts I think when I look at all of this and when I look at the financial management plan that we have with regard to how we look at our fees and charges and also I believe that discussion on the upper quartile was to not be competitive if there is a service that can handle something that we're doing then they'll bid lower than anything that we're doing and so that's why those fees are that way so I have bins and then Dan Keely thank you um one thing I would like to maybe look at a little bit deeper as based off of our last conversation about fees where we discussed a fee structure based on I believe those sales overall sales kind of more fit to the size of the business I know we're gonna look at implementing that during this call bid crisis but I kind of like that idea as a rule moving forward just as a very broad statement I don't I couldn't get into the weeds on it right now but I like rate sizing things to businesses rather than kind of running a hard rule like we I think we've been doing and I think the industry probably has been doing as a whole but I would be my only comment yeah and I think you know from that last discussion we had with regard to bars and restaurant Jennie offered that perspective and I believe Melanie you can and Greg can but I understand that you all are looking at all of that and how that can be implemented all right okay yes madam a are we certain would be able to bring forward a revised new calculation yeah danke thank you madam here I know that this dates back to an original inquiry about our fees in particular liquor license fees and possibly some others and then it had to wait quite a while while there was a an issue that that was blocking our ability to mark in our best interest to discuss it we finally got to it if the all-day work session and now we're following up so in the policy considerations it's it's asking really from what I get from this is Melanie and staff are asking is this policy still valid to all of us do you still want to follow this policy because over the last several years we've deviated from it in some one-off scenarios and it's probably a good time to have this discussion of this is the philosophy that we want to apply to the various B's throughout the city my my and and generally speaking I don't have a problem with it I do like the market comparison putting us in the upper quartile but that's been in place for a long time but my my biggest concern still revolves around our most expensive fee and that's the liquor license and so I think what I would rather see done with that is have it [Music] segmented away from the general feed policy and have it fall under its own individual liquor license fee policy and the reason for that is there's you know you look at our list of fees it runs the gamut from things that are 50 bucks or smaller few hundred bucks all the way up to this liquor license that's 80 100 dollars and I think it's it's kind of in a class by itself because of the the cost it's big and I would like to have a discussion about controlling that number if not reducing it a little and get it out of this automatic increase year over year of year because what I've witnessed in the last 14 years is it's grown we actually had a council discussion many years ago and and reduced it to sort of maybe hit the reset button and get it back start but now it's you know it's creeping back up again and you know I look at it five ten years now what's that gonna be 80 100 now is it gonna be $12,000 for a barbarous not to be able to viola clicker license in Burnsville it just seems to be growing through fast by staying in this particular market comparison the end or getting an increase each year so my my dia is carving out liquor into its own because it is so unique and and letting the rest of our fee structure fall under this bigger blanket or bigger umbrella policy so that's what I would like to cook for me so if it's let's see I'm gonna Dan Gustafson thank you madam mayor Dan that's a discussion we had a while back about is it fair that like a juniors pays the same fee a larger bar would pay according to their volume of business and even the size of their other footprint and I think that's something we can take a look at I also agree with you that the overall policy in the upper percentile I think has served as well and as we can see it's it's a pretty large part of our revenue and you know kind of revenue to the city right now could be a dangerous thing for it cuz we don't know what else is coming yet and so I'd be a little adverse to that but I'm totally open to having some tiered things and I think we have some surrounding cities around us that actually doesn't turn on the liqueurs as well and nor our last two we seem to be holed up to liquor and restaurants but that is it and that is actually an industry that really has been nailed here plays a lot of people in this town very much so staff is doing you know the analysis with the sales and everything can you bring back some consideration on what you all might think that see because I know that you're going to do a market city analysis also of all of the different liquor license and if you do that and then if you're looking at sales maybe you all can bring back something for us to look at with regard to restaurants and bars right that's the only uses that you're you're looking at danke yeah that's specific to our guesses so let me ask this everybody is okay with the with everything else that we're working on in terms of this policy everything is okay the only thing that we're going to have staff work on is the is the fees and charges for restaurants and bars okay and I have I see head nods okay there's no other real fee that raises to the level of concern yes liquor yeah and and and staff is doing those analysis right now so Melanie and while you're doing that you can take a look at our market cities also because everything else looks good from everybody so we have consensus then and those are the only things that we want staff to look at and to bring back to us if some many it does give me a thumbs up about okay very good thank you okay great that is now done we'll go to the next one and this is the sign permit fees this is Regina Dean our assistant Community Development Director and there's no action required on this Regina you're going to be giving us some information and welcome good evening thank you mayor members of the council the presentation tab here ok so this item was brought up at the 2020 all day work session and some questions arose regarding how we treat our leasing and real estate temporary signs and so from that point forward there's direction to take a look at what we do and provide a further update at a future work session so that brings us to today the overall next slide please the overall I would say history of how we got to this point kind of a combination of things so our city code the particularly the sign code was pretty outdated in 2015 there was a Supreme Court Court case Gilbert versus breed that talked about content-based sign code and that cities really cannot have sign codes that talk about content that content-based regulations essentially are prohibited so as we opened up the window taking a look at our city code to make changes we notice gosh there is a lot of there were a lot of sections within our city code that dealt with content development signs employment signs now hiring sign special event fines multifamily signs they all deal with content so that was one thing that we had to take a look at and had recommended to change which we did another thing that we looked at when we opened up the store was what are what are the fees so with pretty much with any code change we jr. we look at the market not only with the city code provisions but then also the fees that we charge that might be associated with those code provisions and and so we you know took a look at our market cities as part of your discussion from the previous topic we charge based off of the market and cost recovery so that's where a lot of our as you look at the charts where the fees derived from or how they how we got to that point next slide please so this may be small for you to view this is in your in your background however we when we looked at the market we wanted to see how we compared with other seas particularly with our temporary signs and our temporary find these so we have a list of it there's 13 market cities that we compare ourselves against and it really ran the gamut anywhere from five dollars for a temporary sign committee - on up to I think 200 dollars or so for a sign permit fee for temporary and because those numbers are kind of all over the place and they were associated with a one-day temporary sign committee or a 30 days temporary sign permit fee or a 90-day we took that information and had it put an assumption that these were valid for 90 days so we did kind of a multiplier to see if I were to go to Apple Valley and request a sign permit for 90 days for a temporary sign what would that be B in Apple Valley case it would be $30 but then in other cities it may be more 225 dollars in Brooklyn Park for example next slide please and this is just a continuation of those markets cities that we evaluated what we found is that Burnsville is pretty much right in the middle four to five cities are higher 5 are less than us and then to just simply prohibit temporary signs even praise an example of that next slide please so taking a closer look at these again you probably can't see the graphic on the left-hand side but when we went to the process in 2019 to evaluate sign permit fees we really eliminated a lot of the fees that were associated with the employment type signs now hiring sign sandwich board signs and created essentially two different categories a temporary sign permit fee and a permanent sign permit fee and like I said pretty much eliminated everything else so a permanent sign is really anything over 100 and 180 days on a property so the sign permit fee is one hundred and seventy five dollars to replace a sign face or for a brand new wall sign and then for a you for standing sign brand new for 180 days or a year five years ten years twenty years as long as you don't change that sign it's two hundred and fifty five dollars temporary sign fees we changed those as well and it ranges ranges from 100 to 200 dollars so there are intended to be less than the permanent sign fees and I do want to note that we did actually illuminate some segments so sandwich board signs needs to charge a 130 dollars per year we also used to charge for employment sign so if you were hiring for example you would be charged two hundred and sixty dollars per month now if you only wanted to have that now hiring sign up you would be charged a temporary signed fee you can add that up for 90 days and it would be $100 um some signs don't require fees anymore sandwich board signs would be an example of this you can now put a sandwich board sign out no charge signs also under a certain square footage for example six square feet or less don't trigger any type of permit requirement they're simply free just go out and do it and then we also change some regulations as it really relates to special events there they used to be considered a sign which is really peculiar to me but we understand in that permit through our business regulations you can have signage associated with that and it's no longer part of the what I plus y as the temporary sign of permanent sign category so it's a separate a separate deal altogether I do want to note two different events like legacy events or community events are exempt for from any type of sign from it so that doesn't you know with that I can certainly stand for any questions if you would like clarification on any item or more detail I'd be more than happy to answer any questions for Regina a staff is recommending that no action is required here and recommends keeping the fees as is Dan Keely thank you madam Eric a couple questions in the background there was a reference miss Dean about a some interaction with some I was assume business owners that were reached out to and interacted with is that referencing back the 2019 process that we went through to get to where we are today that's correct there was some noted business impact businesses impacted do we know we have I guess do you remember like who was impacted to the negative and who was impacted to the positive like maybe you know some people had some fees that they might have paid it passed eliminated or greatly reduced and others might have had or were there any that had an increase so I would say the real estate community the larger commercial type real estate your industrial your large commercial may have been impacted the greatest at face values so prior you could have a temporary sign up it was considered a for lease real estate sign for people really kept these up indefinitely at no charge and so with the Gilbert versus Reid decision where we could no longer specify content we had to come up with the solution that worked across the board and you know I would say the I would say the real estate for lease people may have been impacted the greatest now they do have the option the option of pulling one permit and considering it a permanent a permanent sign and pain that it's two hundred and seventy-five dollars or I'm sorry two hundred fifty five dollars for a free-standing sign or they can integrate it into an existing sign so for example if they have a monument sign or they have a wall sign or they want to use their window as an opportunity to say this is release this is for sale they can do that some options are at no cost the window sign example other options are again at that it would be considered a permanent sign or they have that 90-day option I do remember hearing from a couple and I'm sure mr. Gustafson did too being in that industry heard from some long-standing members of our commercial real estate industry that live and or work in Burnsville and yes they were they were a little taken aback by having to pay the two hundred fifty five bucks after paying nothing for so long and so there was some concerns expressed there the I'm curious I just want to clarify our current waiver of the sign ordinance during Kovan could you just clarify what that means that's not a waiver of fees is it just a waiver of the rules or it also takes out the fees I don't have the executive order in front of me however I believe it's just an exemption period don't leave charging any fees it should make sense if we're gonna relax all the rules then how do you tie a fee to you know putting a sign out and currently is that the executive order city manager League and extend through June 30th is that what it's currently planned that order or is it indefinite I can't remember for some reason that details on that's time America executive order yeah madam mayor and council the executive order would generally practically expire when the governor's executive order expires we could extend it but I think that the justification would be hard to justify and I'm going to pull up the executive order so I can get the exact language for you so then so currently then it would be probably tying out to what is it June 13th is that the current end of the emergency governor's emergency executive order our Journal of it sorry okay so we have till till June 11th on it so we have to consider that as we go the next few weeks and see where we use that well thank you miss Deane this is I want to as long as our current temporary sign fees are currently essentially waived as a result of the executive order declaration of emergency what do you see happening when let's let's say it it stops on June 11th and June 12th forward do all of these fees now kick back in and what's our approach to if a person did or didn't quit any sign requests in prior to Kovac but that now wants to do it again you know because we have a I think it's to 90-day periods right so maybe I'm a business that used a 90-day period before Kovac hit and then now we're in a waiver period and then I want and then we're gonna start it back up again are we gonna allow those businesses to come back and have to 90-day periods for the rest of the year or only give them the one that they had prior to and we by chance thought about just how we're gonna manage that restarting of this science evil program go to Jenny she has her hand up on it she uh Jenny I think you madam mayor members of the council so just to clarify two things the order is related to temporary business signs to allow local businesses affected by the emergency Proclamation to post on premise signs informing the public of the availability and process for obtaining their products such as takeout or curbside pickup so it's not an across-the-board waiver it is just for those that were directly affected from kovat regarding the enforcement side of this we are not proactively enforcing code doing code enforcement so this ends up being more so on your honor the fee is when people call and they ask this is what the fee is unless we get a complaint because someone has a shoddy sign or it's fallen if we get a complaint then we'll go and look at it and see if they have a permit but because we're we're not doing proactive we can't track it if permits aren't required and we're going out and being proactive I guess so hopefully that answers both of those okay thank you well one I guess this is all leading up to I'm trying to figure out what are we going to plan on doing because one of the things that I believe in this might go contrary to councilmember Gustafson's comment about about reducing fees right now might not be ideal for the city I'm a strong believer that the city has to dissipate in the solution and the solution is to help our businesses thrive so we can actually collect a fee maybe in 2021 and not just try and get one this year and have them and they're they're impacted in a much bigger level than just this b-but I would propose that we we just consider waiving temporary sign fees through the end of 2020 I think we all have come to the realization that this the impact of kovat on our businesses is so dramatic that it's really hurting through the end of the year and it may hurt them into the next year but we have time to evaluate that but for now I would like to see us waive temporary sign fees through the end of 2020 thank you so council how about if we have staff also bring back some numbers to us if we do that Jenny and in Regina how many temporary signed fees do we see in a year madam mayor members of the council this is off of my my old memory but I think in our budget we plan about twenty to twenty five thousand dollars a year in total sign permits so the temporary signs would be a small portion of that we can we can bring back the numbers but it's it's a nominal amount I would say you can't be more than a half event I would say let's take a look at the numbers as we continue on with our budget process as well because I think we need to be prudent and an tocqueville's cara i waiving the fees I think I mean I think that our business owners are gonna be opening changing hours do they like doing lots of different quick things that they're gonna have to do but I mean also looking at the fall because I think this fall and winter you know from everything that we're hearing we will you know we'll have a pickup of coronavirus again and we may have to have businesses that are really changing quickly on what they're doing and that signage could be very important for our residents that they can quickly see as they're as they're driving by you know what's what's going on what's open and what are the hours that type of thing but so you know I I am actually in favor of waiving it it does appear that it's it's not entirely for us a small amount so yeah and it's only for the temporary signs okay cause remember Dan Billie temporary signs yes Oh me okay colleagues on Emperor Airy signs it's things are gonna change probably weekly for a while and we're gonna so we're gonna see a lot of businesses opening and different things are gonna be happening and right now with the temporaries as Jenny told us that's a that's kind of a nominal charge I mean when you look at the overall science part so I think that would help help everybody our businesses our churches our food shelves a lot of different people are trying to get some things done right now that so they don't get charged for signage we came a temper on the temporary and all my reasons all my real estate signs will be temporary by the way okay go to Jenny and then Dan Keely Johnny thank you enter mayor members of the council I also want to assure you that we are keeping an eye on the peacetime emergency timing because we know this is important to our community it's important to you and when these executive orders expire we want to make sure that if we want them to continue that we bring forward an interim ordinance that would extend these for you for our businesses when that expire so we're keeping an eye on that and that's that's kind of the direction that we're thinking yeah I like that because we're being thoughtful because it's it's about the whole community and we want to help our businesses but also let's take a look at that revenue and if you say it's not that much then that's great danke but it's good just know what that loss would be den great and thank you and I didn't expect the temporary signs to be a huge financial hit I think a lot of the things that we're doing is you know it may not have a huge financial price tag savings to the business but as part of what I think we should do as a city to be to live up to that flexibility right and our innovative our flexible are supporting our community business community waving that our discussion on licensed liquor license same thing it's all the things that I believe we as a city need to do at a time like this and and some of them cost the city a lot the liquor could potentially be a big big price tag to the city the temporary sign may not but all of them I believe are absolutely the right thing to do to help our businesses succeed so we can look to the future and gain a license fee from them year over year after we help them get past this crisis Thank You Cara yeah I see this less as a monetary issue and where is a speed and adaptability issue okay Jenny last thing if we could get a motion on the action of the council that would be helpful for the record okay may I have a motion even when we do this I still would like to see the numbers as we because we're going into budget so may I have a motion to suspend the the temporary license fees to the end to December 30th a motion to suspend our temporary temporary sign license these license fees through the end of 2020 December 31st and I was a motion by second by Kara any other thoughts seeing none the clerk please take the roll call I'll take the roll call sorry madam mayor I will is ignite be uh councilmember Gustafson hi mayor counts by councilmember Keely alright councilmember Schulz yes council never worked me I okay and the motion passes unanimously thank you so the thing is I still when we go through let's make sure that we because one of the things in Melanie's updates is she shows us the lost revenue and the lost revenue is not something that is going to be reimbursable am I correct in understanding that Melanie madam mayor and council under the current Tears Act for which there is money available for local governments lost revenue is not an eligible cost there is a proposal the heroes act before the house and the federal under that would include that but then that hasn't been passed yet but it's not in the Senate and we don't know how the pros gonna yeah yeah but right now it's not a recoverable cost so we need to that's part of our fiduciary responsibility you know we're going to waive it but all costs all lost revenue we should pay attention to Jenny I think your hand was up thank you madam mayor members of the council we'll be sure to get that information to you in the next day or two what we had planned in the budget for that so we'll get that information to you okay thank you so much members of the council I've there's nothing else with regard to this item and I think we've done that is there other items to come before us this evening oh we don't have any other items so members of the council no other items to come before us this evening and I will adjourn our meeting by acclamation thank you everyone can anyone good night well team another comedian fake