[0:00] Acting Mayor John Geissler: Time is 6:30. Let's stand for the Hermantown City Council meeting. Stand for the pledge of allegiance, please. [0:10] All: To the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. [0:25] Acting Mayor John Geissler: Nice. Just as a matter of order, uh, Mayor Boucher is ill this evening. Um, I'm Councilor Geissler. I am the acting mayor this evening. Um, roll call, please. [0:34] City Clerk Alissa McClure: Councilor Hjelle? [0:36] Councilor Andy Hjelle: Here. [0:37] City Clerk Alissa McClure: Councilor LeBlanc? [0:38] Councilor Brian LeBlanc: Here. [0:41] City Clerk Alissa McClure: Councilor Peterson? [0:43] Councilor Joe Peterson: Here. [0:44] City Clerk Alissa McClure: Acting Mayor Geissler? [0:46] Acting Mayor John Geissler: Here. Um, announcements. Any council members have any announcements this evening? All right. Uh, there is no public hearing communications. Um, Mr. Mulder, you want to talk about our communications 143 through 455? [1:03] City Administrator John Mulder: Yes, we listed um we have received uh hundreds of communications and correspondence um relative to the data center. We have listed all of those for you. Um if you uh wish to have copies of any of those, just let us know and we can get those copies to you. [1:21] Acting Mayor John Geissler: All right. Um during our pre-agenda meeting, we had two presentations. One on the 2026 preliminary debt service budgets and one on paid family medical leave. Uh Mr. Mulder, you want to just give a recap of those, please? [1:36] City Administrator John Mulder: Yeah. So, Kevin Orme, our director of finance and administration, presented the uh 2026 uh debt service budget. Um the best summary on that is found on page 25 of the packet. But basically um we are using um 697,000 just over 697,000 in levy for uh debt service next year. Um that's funding um fire halls and rose road from a couple years ago and then also um a number of road plans. A vast majority of our debt um is funded either through the original sales tax and or the community recreation sales tax. Um and then there's also a fair amount that is funded by various assessments um throughout the years. Um so we did not incur any additional debt in 2024-25 but we are looking at a couple projects in 2026 um including uh section 14 which is the Lightning Drive to um Lake uh a sewer pipe and um plans there and then also potentially for the Hawkline business park in the Birdfield subdivision. So um that was the gist of that presentation. Then David Huntley from Church and Associates um gave us a presentation on uh the new law for paid family medical leave. As you recall, the uh council hired or um approved a contract for the purchase of that benefits about a month or so ago. Um Mr. Huntley went through um the requirements of the law, what the impact was on employees, how that um interacted with other various leave laws. So that was just an update for the city council. [3:26] Acting Mayor John Geissler: All right. Next is public discussion. We have a lot of people here tonight. Um, our public discussion at this time is for items that are not on the agenda. So, I know a lot of you are here to speak on the uh data center. We have two opportunities during the data center. There's a rezoning and then the adoption of the AUAR. Uh, we're going to call people for those um in the order that they signed up. But for now, this is public discussion for anything other than what's on the agenda. One more call for public discussion. Items not on the agenda. Anybody would like to address the council. All right. Not hearing any. We'll move on. Um item nine, motions. We have no motions this evening. Um item 10, consent agenda. Uh the consent agenda uh includes the minutes uh approval or correction of the September 15, 2025 city council continuation minutes and item B accounts payable approve general city warrants from September 16, 2025 through September 30, 2025 in the amount of $879,380.28. Do we have a motion? [4:57] Councilor Andy Hjelle: Motion to approve. [5:01] Councilor Brian LeBlanc: Second. [5:02] Acting Mayor John Geissler: Motion by Councilor Hjelle. Second by Councilor LeBlanc. Um all in favor say I. [5:05] All: I. [5:06] Acting Mayor John Geissler: Oppose. Same sign. Motion passes. Moving on to ordinances. Our ordinance this evening is 2025-17, an ordinance amending title two of the Hermantown city code by amending the official zoning map. This is the first reading. The first reading uh will have no action by the council. Uh this will be the second reading will be next meeting. Uh and that's when action will be taken. But at this time, I know there's a lot of people that would like to speak to this matter. [5:39] City Administrator John Mulder: So, let me start if I may. Tonight is the first reading. There's no action of this uh ordinance. Um, we know that lots of people have concerns and are have some apprehension about the proposed project. Um, tonight we hope to provide some additional information to maybe alleviate some of those concerns. Um, and provide you specific facts about the specific project that is being considered in Hermantown as opposed to data centers in general. Um, this is uh, one of the things that we talk a lot about in city hall is let's make sure we have good facts. Let's make sure we understand the facts and we're not arguing about facts. So, let's make sure we understand those. Now, ultimately people might draw different conclusions about those facts, but um—sorry, I'll use my mic better—is at least we hope that we can alleviate some of those concerns by providing additional information. Um we are all just a community working together to try to be a better community. So, we just ask that everybody be civil in this process. Um we're going to start with a presentation by Eric Johnson, our community development director, just about the rezoning process. [6:46] Community Development Director Eric Johnson: Great. Thank you very much, Mr. Mulder, as well as members of the council. So, as Mr. Mulder said, I'm going to speak more to the uh zoning map amendment process, uh how it goes about, different rationale associated with it. So, earlier in 2025, the city of Hermantown adopted an update to our comprehensive plan. So as part of that uh work, the comprehensive plan identified the southwest quadrant of our city as an area to be guided towards business light manufacturing. Uh the rationale behind that is that these uh parcels are within what we call concept area 4 uh ability to develop new compatible light industrial uh development along with adequate public facilities. So the comprehensive plan envisions this quadrant for the city with its access to county road 13 i.e. Midway, Minnesota State Highway 2, rail as well as the Minnesota Power Substation should be guided towards that business and light manufacturing. So this evening, Harmony Group LLC is requesting the rezoning of 17 of these parcels totaling 220 acres from S1 Suburban to BLM business and light manufacturing. Uh there is existing uh BLM zoned property at the southwest corner of Morris Thomas Road and Midway Road as well as east of this proposed zoning area too. As you move over towards the Solway Township and the city's uh city lines at that point, uh the city's availability of BLM zone properties very limited to mostly infill lots on small acreage parcels that we have. Primarily this land exists either over by the airport or uh basically within the city's industrial park that we have off of Stebner Road. Uh the rezoning of the large acreage area provides an opportunity for business growth as well as expansion within the city. So the comprehensive plan guides these parcels for business light manufacturing as they're large enough to accommodate large uh building footprints as well as potential employers in the future. So it focuses the development opportunities for new business and light manufacturing in designated areas with that strategic highway access to create a desirable environment for attracting new businesses and increasing local job opportunities while also uh limiting the impacts on denser more residential areas in other parts of the city. Um as acting mayor Geissler pointed out this is the first reading and a second reading would happen at the October 20th city council meeting. [9:08] City Administrator John Mulder: All right, acting mayor. So again, the rezoning is at the request uh to be consistent with the comprehensive plan, but also specifically for um the proposed project. And so um what I'd like to do is have uh Chad Ronchetti, our economic development director, speak specifically about um the specifics of the project. Again, a lot of information out there, some of it true, some of it not. Um, some of it may be true of other places, but we want to talk about, you know, what's what's true about the project here. So, I've asked Chad Ronchetti to give a presentation overall about the project in more in general. [9:52] Economic Development Director Chad Ronchetti: Uh, thank you, Mr. Mulder, Acting Mayor Geissler, uh, councilors, uh, as Mr. Johnson had pointed out, there is a rezoning uh in front of you tonight for first reading uh as a result of an application. Uh that application uh also has uh authorizations from all of the land owners in which uh in which these these parcels are located. Uh so I think as everyone knows, uh the city of Hermantown staff has been working with Mortenson Development for the past many months uh on a proposed data center uh located in the southwest corner. Uh it is very common practice uh for staff to work with development entities uh who are representative for major companies. Uh and this is true regardless of uh size of project. Uh and in fact we are going through the same process with other sites in the city of Hermantown right now with a confidential client behind a developer—one of them at a very significant brownfield redevelopment site. Uh I look forward to speaking about that project at a future council meeting. Uh that said, we do know uh that the company uh the company being represented uh is a Fortune 50 company uh with a US headquarters uh and they're evaluating a campus uh on the site uh that is up for application for rezoning of up to four data centers along with supporting infrastructure such as offices and warehouse. Um the project will evolve uh over the course of 8 to 10 years uh as the campus gets developed. Uh and all of you can be reassured that the appropriate and applicable local and state environmental laws uh and requirements will be met and that is a requirement of the project. Uh the project is expected to uh to include high hundreds of millions of dollars in private investment and potentially reaching into the billions of dollars of private investment uh as it reaches its apex uh at the end of the project. Uh addressing some concerns about the project in particular. I'll start with water. Uh we've heard several comments about water uh as uh as this project has come more and more to light. Uh this project—to be super clear—this project will not use water for cooling. Uh none of these facilities on the proposed project will be uh water cooled. Uh the project will also not use groundwater. Uh these facilities will utilize municipal water and sewer systems only and not use groundwater. Uh the project will use 50,000 gallons per day at a maximum uh when fully built out, all four buildings. Should all four buildings get built and that is again by municipal supply and not by groundwater. The water will be used for potable and common light industrial uses uh and also there will be availability of of that municipal flow for fire flow should the demand be—not when, but should, right, let's hope. Uh we have discussed the project uh with partners like City of Duluth and the sanitary district WLSSD, and this project uh in our many meetings with them will not cause uh strain on the current system and there is plenty of capacity in both instances to support this project uh at full buildout. Again, at 50,000 gallons a day maximum at full buildout, there is plenty of uh capacity. Um, and that 50,000 gallons a day is comparable in use to the area multi-family building that was just built—so, 160 uh homes or comparable to an apartment building. It's the same amount of water. Uh, as everyone knows, utilities on the site do not exist today. Uh, and so there will need to be a utility extension in order to get the water and sewer to the site. Um, some of the questions being asked are whether or not there will be tax increases in order to pay for this. The answer is no tax increases in order to pay for that system. Um, the utility extension uh will happen by project funding. So should the project get built, the public utilities will get funded through project funding. The anticipated utility extension is expected to be somewhere between 50 to 100 million dollars of public infrastructure as a part of this project. Uh and those utility improvements uh once they are constructed by the developer or by the company will be conveyed to the city of Hermantown on completion and they will become a publicly owned asset. So once they are built they will be publicly owned. Um a significant public project like this uh of uh of many many miles of water main and miles of uh sanitary sewer extension uh can't happen without a significant private partnership. Um so we would not be able to take on this project as a city without a private partner. In terms of wetlands, another concern—every project regardless of size, scale or end use uh must follow the long-established process uh around evaluating, minimizing and mitigating any potential wetland impacts. This is a standard process that we go through on a regular basis as a city. It's something we do often. Uh and this process also includes other partner agencies such as the Minnesota DNR, the US Army Corps of Engineers, the Board of Water and Soil Resources among others. Uh so we are not alone in this. Um this project will follow the same process as all the other projects that we uh have done in the city of Hermantown. Um and so the impervious surface of this project just like every other project in the city of Hermantown will abide by our regulations. We do have storm water ordinance uh that has been adopted as local law. Uh those that ordinance uh follows and adheres to the Minnesota Pollution Control guidance which mandates that we protect our water sources, our water resources including wetlands and trout streams. So we do have ordinance in place in order to manage the storm water appropriately regardless of size. Uh lastly a lot of questions about the economic impacts. This project would create jobs in the high hundreds of construction jobs. Uh and those construction jobs would last throughout the course of the entire project. So they would be continuous uh over the 8 to 10 years that the project would be being built. A minimum of 40 full-time jobs would be created as a part of the first building uh with the potential of uh reaching 100 plus full-time uh technical positions. Uh and those wages that would be paid would be well above the uh county average wage. Uh of note, data center projects have been shown to generate across the country uh more than six jobs for every one job created. So uh the secondary impacts of this uh project uh on the economy are significant. Uh new types of commercial development within a city allows for us to diversify local and regional tax base. Uh that that makes the economic foundation of a city much more resilient should there be any economic downturns or should there be uh any economic shocks. Uh it makes—you know, just like your personal financing—having a diversification uh of revenues uh is is a healthy idea. Uh and lastly in terms of commercial taxpayers, tax computations are obviously quite complicated. I certainly uh I certainly struggle with them. Uh but the commercial taxpayers in general usually pay two or more times uh in tax rates what residents pay. Uh and then beyond that they also utilize uh far less core services. So in terms of fire, police, parks, those types of things, they utilize far less than the residents. So that essentially equates with higher taxes and lower utilization of city services that equates to an economic workforce uh in terms of development. So I'll pause. [18:28] City Administrator John Mulder: So again, tonight we have uh the rezoning um and we'll take public comment on that, but then also um we'll also take comment at the AUAR as well. So um do we want to go through the AUAR now? [18:46] Acting Mayor John Geissler: Let's do it at the time. Because then we'll get people comment on the rezoning. Yeah, this is rezoning. Um we'll take comments on both the rezoning and AUAR but there will be uh the next uh agenda item will be on the AUAR and you can speak to both of those items. So, uh, in the order that people signed up, um, Joanne Bates. [19:26] Joanne Bates (5369 Morris Thomas Rd): I am not a professional speaker and my notes have bounced all over the place as I listen to what you guys have said. But Acting Mayor and Councilors, um, I want to talk, as you know, about the data center, but I want you to know that today is my 52nd anniversary and I am a simple person. I live on a simple property and I have a limited income that's not going to increase in any substantial way going forward. So that brings me to some of my concerns. And I hear statements that the taxes are going to not impact me. And I hear on the paper that most um big corporations like this pay um double or more the amount of taxes that I pay. Um, but I also know that they have a lot of people working for them who try and make ways to get out of paying taxes. And I would say somebody who makes that much money probably should pay a higher percentage than that. Um, so um, I am hearing that, um, this developer operates some of the most efficient data centers in the industry. That's what you've been telling us on the paper here. And I want you all to name a few of the centers they operate. And I want to know who is this developer because I'm sorry, I have a bit of lack of faith and I need some proof. And I would ask you to also ask for proof. Um, I ask you why would anybody sign a non-disclosure agreement about something if it were really in the public interest? Um, and I'm asking you not to rezone these places. Don't rezone them. Um my understanding is that when these kind of companies give quotes they give an estimate of the amount of water they use, they are using a five-year average from the time construction starts. That means the first three years have low consumption and that's averaged over the five years to give a deceptive amount of energy consumed. I hear statements that this will take even longer than that to build. But I am concerned. Um, water, even water in Lake Superior is not endless. How many staff do you think there will employ on an ongoing basis? I hear it's supposed to be a great money, not just for construction, um, but in an ongoing basis. But I think there was a hint in the newspapers about this. They say the sanitary sewer discharge from the Hermantown property is expected to be consistent with that produced by domestic properties. Well, then that's not very many people. Um, the two people in my house are okay. Um, and you want to let me continue. Um, and we have an existing better review process in Minnesota called an environmental impact statement. I don't think it was fair to substitute the alternative area-wide review. It's bad business. We are not urban and we do not want a quick review that allows the facts to be covered up. And I would like to ask the people in this room to raise their hand if they support the data center. [23:36] Acting Mayor John Geissler: So all right, I appreciate the time. Thank you so much. And just a reminder, you can speak again during the AUAR portion. And I was remiss to remind everybody we have a three-minute time limit. Try to keep it at that if we can please. Um so next is Mickey Pearson. [23:58] Mickey Pearson (Apex): I have a loud voice. Uh not that loud. All right. Good evening, Acting Mayor Geissler, councilors and city staff. My name is Mickey Pearson. I live in Duluth and I'm a business recruiter for Area Partnership for Economic Expansion or Apex. Apex is a private sector-led economic development organization that represents communities in the seven counties of northeast Minnesota, including Hermantown. We offer unique approaches to drive economic growth and partner with cities and counties to make it happen. I'm here to offer comment and perspective on this project based on our role in economic development in our region. It's natural to have questions about any new development and investment. We understand two major concerns around this are around water usage and electrical grid rates and reliability. Well, Apex has worked recently to convene conversations connecting with experts in the field of data centers so we can have a common understanding of what's ahead as proposed projects like this take shape in our region. Through our work, we've explored these concerns and we believe we are uniquely suited to welcome a data center in our community and foster a culture of continued technological innovation. Data centers are essential to the digital infrastructure that powers our modern life. Today, major tech companies are actively seeking to invest in our region. We're not chasing them. They're courting us. Even better, our unique regional qualities like natural cooler temperatures and a publicly regulated power grid mean we're better suited to incorporate these projects into our community without the challenges found in other regions of the country. Advancements in air cooling technology also mean that a new data center will use less water than predecessors. A future data center's daily water usage, as Chad mentioned, is comparable to that of a new car wash or a multi-family unit. Data centers are a catalyst for economic growth and diversification. Bringing land into commercial use provides immediate tax revenue increases. As we face municipal budget shortfalls, these funds are especially welcome now in communities across the US. Tax revenue contributed by data centers has funded schools along with public safety, parks, libraries, and public transportation. The opportunity to rezone this specific area fits with your city's comprehensive plan quite well. By diversifying your land use, you prepare for more economic growth in light manufacturing, attracting new investment and potential tax revenue. We strongly encourage you to approve the resolution adopting the final Hermantown industrial alternative urban area review document tonight and the mitigation plan to keep the process moving for on this potential project. Thank you for your time and your service to your community. [26:56] Acting Mayor John Geissler: Thank you. Next on the list is Sarah Winter and reminder you have approximately three minutes. [27:01] Sarah Winter: Thank you so much for addressing this topic tonight. I feel like it's been really difficult for me, a very average citizen, to find information about it. I realize that it's on the website and um I have the links to the environmental review, but it's very difficult for an average citizen. So, this is very helpful. Thank you. Um I want to talk a little bit about my concerns about this. Um there's a lot of conventional wisdom that could be used here, but um one of the ones that I want to point to is if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. Um, millions or billions of dollars invested in our community. The question that occurs to me is whether we want our community to be the kind of place that attracts billions of dollars of investments that absolutely will change the kind of community that we are living in. And we just have to ask if this is what our citizens would like to see or not. Um with massive parking lots for this building. I was just looking at the environmental review and the drawings of the parking lots and the enormous buildings. Um, and I just heard how they don't use as many resources. Uh, that's because they're robotic residents um, which is a fairly dystopian future for our community. Uh, as you were talking, I was listening to you talk about getting the utilities to the site, which means cutting through properties, I imagine. Um, also all that construction means roads in our community being closed. Um, I'm concerned about the broken promises of data centers across the country. We can learn from the history of the people who have experienced this around us. Um my aunt lives near one in Indiana that promised 200 jobs and increasing year after year and it employs four people. Um and housing for all the new workers that you know are promised to come in that you mentioned. Um we don't have that kind of housing here. That's the kind of thing that could be a very big problem and is likely to bring construction workers and people from other places—not employing people in our community but from the Twin Cities from outstate. Bottom line, these companies are in it for their own profit, not for the well-being of the people in our community. They're specifically looking for small local governments with small staffs, excuse me, who can provide less eyes on a project. A small local government like Hermantown can't win in a lawsuit against a Fortune 50 company. If we have a problem, our chance for this to make this change is now, not in the future. Our chance to stop that is before it happens, not after, because we won't have enough power to fight them. I'd like you to please consider the imbalance of power in this situation as you put us in the hands of a Fortune 50 company. Thank you. [29:51] Acting Mayor John Geissler: Um before we call the next uh speaker, uh I please hold your applause. Uh we'd like to be uh just cordial to everybody and one speaker at a time, please. Um next is Lynn Bradford. [30:14] Lynn Bradford (4198 Solway Rd): Good evening. Um, I couldn't take notes, so I'm going to speak off the top of my head. I moved to the Solway Road off uh the St. Louis River Road in uh 1984. I built a house there and uh it's been beautiful. It's a beautiful area. I'm sure some of you have been up to look at that area. Um, and then I built another house uh a little closer to MN Power's property, which actually is uh adjacent to some of my property. The solitude and the quietness and the wildlife uh are incredible in this area. You know, my plan in life was to live a peaceful retirement, uh sit on the back porch with a beer and listen to the birds sing. But now that's going to be a difficult process for me. Um the thing I think about with um with this project, you talk about the jobs created. You know, how many how many local tradesmen are going to be employed? Most of these people, I'm sure, will come from out of town. That in itself is uh you know not a good uh not a good concept I don't think. Um I just don't know how to approach the issue since it's only been 10 days since the public basically has found out what this project is all about. And I would have gotten involved much much sooner had I known what it all entails. You know, you talk about light industrial. Well, what does that encompass? How big is a light industrial? And this is just one council now making zoning changes and giving their input into a project potentially worth billions of dollars. What about a new council when they come in? What are they going to be able to do about this project or with this project, adding to it or subtracting things from it? You know, those are all concerns. You're here now and you're making these decisions that are going to affect my life and my retirement. Um, and so I hope you make the right decision and look at "for the people and by the people," not necessarily all "for business and by business," because business now is dictating what each one of you are doing. Thank you. [33:17] Acting Mayor John Geissler: Thank you. Next is Todd Pelky. [33:23] City Administrator John Mulder: Mr. Mayor, if we can have a reminder for folks to say their full name and address, that would be helpful. [33:31] Acting Mayor John Geissler: All right. If you could uh state your name and address, please for the record. [33:40] Todd Pelkey (3609 Midway Rd): Uh, Todd Pelkey, 3609 Midway Road. I'm in here to talk about the zoning for changing it to a BLM for the Adolph area. And my question is this should have happened years ago. Everything out there basically is small business. You got the railroad going through Adolph two different directions. You got the businesses that are out there. Uh people that live along the corridor of the highway—Midway Road is a truck road that the state sends trucks and oversized loads through. It's really not a residential area and I don't know why it's been this way for so long. Uh so I think it would be the best interest of the city to change this to BLM in the Adolph area to support more businesses that want to come into these areas. Check my notes here. And I've lived out there for 30 years and it's always been BLM out in that area. Basically, it's not parks and playgrounds and this area is what the city needs to have to grow businesses. Um, and that's all I have. [34:58] Acting Mayor John Geissler: All right. Thank you. Next is Barb Harris. [35:13] Barb Harris (417 Stebner Rd): Well, I am Barb Harris. I live on 417 Stebner Road. I am in the category of person that fears public speaking more than death. So, um, you can understand how important this issue is to me that I am up here talking in front of a room full of people. Um, I sat through the whole pre-agenda meeting and Mr. Wicklund was kind enough to answer some of my questions um because I had about I think 23 or so. Um, after listening to all the information um, and what comes—my initial reaction is I feel like there has been uh a complete lack of transparency and Mr. Wicklund didn't feel that way. He thought that um you on the council were being as transparent as you could um and that this is pretty standard practice to not know the name of the Fortune 50 company that wants to build here. And I'm guessing most of the people in this room find that as absurd as I do. I don't know why you find that acceptable and accept that as a standard practice. It shouldn't be. We should be able to know who wants to invest in our community off the bat before you start talking to them um so that we can do our own uh due diligence about what kind of neighbor would this company be. And I also as I sat through that whole pre-agenda meeting um I heard you discussing the change orders for the cement at Fickner and the trail repairs that had to happen uh at Keen Creek Park and you talked about um oh the changes to the signs at the Hermantown Arena. Basically, every project you guys have taken on recently—and I'm not faulting you for this, but you know—nothing goes like you think it's going to go. There are always changes. There's always hiccups. There's always something goes wrong or changes or whatever. And in this billion-dollar project that you're looking at, you're going to have just as many changes down the road. Um, and I'm wondering what for you are your off-ramps. They tell you it's going not use a ton of water. When they come back and say, "Oh, we miscalculated and it's going to need more," what's your off-ramp? If you invite this corporation into our community, if you bend over backwards to bring all this money in, how are you going to walk away from that when they start pulling the rug out from under you? I hope you have a plan for that because um I think you need one and I would say that I am not in favor of this uh data center at this time with the information that you have given us so far. Thank you. [38:33] Acting Mayor John Geissler: Thank you. All right. Next is Tom Bates. [38:44] Tom Bates (5369 Morris Thomas Rd): My name is Tom Bates and I live at 5369 Morris Thomas Road in Hermantown. Uh right next to the cemetery in the brown house up on the hill. Uh, couple of things I really need to know. If you can explain yourselves why you picked an AUAR instead of a standard environmental impact statement. I realize they're slower, but what's the rush? It's going to be there 50 years. What do you think? 50 years, 100 years? They don't go away. You know, you get a big facility like that, they don't go away overnight. So, what's the rush? We'd be better off to take a little time now and get it really right. You know what I mean? I'm speaking as an old-timer. I've seen stuff come and go and be done really wrong. Hey, I've done stuff really wrong. And then the other thing is I'm bothered by this 50,000 gallons of water. That's 150 homes or several apartment buildings or a car wash, but something's not adding up. They say they're going to use air-to-air cooling. So, what do they need 50,000 gallons of water a day for? The toilets? How many people are going to be there? Something's not adding up. Do you see what I'm saying? You're not being told the straight dope. Really, this is just me warning you. They got to have their facts straight. I'm counting on you guys. Get their facts straight. Get them where the hair is short and make them talk. Okay. All right. Thank you very much. [40:57] Acting Mayor John Geissler: Thank you. Um, next is Kim Parmter. Reminder to state your name and address, please. [41:08] Kim Parmter (5590 Stark Rd): Good evening. I'm Kim Parmter, 5590 Stark Road. Good evening, council members and Acting Mayor this evening. I'm Kim Parmter, President and CEO of the Hermantown Area Chamber of Commerce. We represent over 300 local employers across this region. I'm also a resident of adjacent Midway Township and live about 2 miles away from where this is proposed to be. Um, just a quick thank you to everyone who spoke before me. The perspective is just appreciated and this is a great place to learn more and share those um concerns and uh this is really a part of the process. So, I appreciate everyone that's here tonight speaking out. Uh, but from the Chamber's perspective, this project is exactly the kind of forward-thinking investment that's going to keep Hermantown area and St. Louis County economically competitive. So, we're talking about a US founded Fortune 200 company—Fortune 50, it sounds like, I'm learning more and more myself—willing to put hundreds of millions, potentially billions into our region. And that means jobs. That means infrastructure and long-term financial stability. So over the next decade, this construction alone could employ more than a thousand people. Good day trades jobs that keep local contractors and suppliers busy. And when the facility is operational, that's 40 to 200 high-wage technical roles—exactly the kind of variety that we've been trying to attract to this region beyond our traditional industries. And that is a great reason to keep our young talents here in the region. We have suffered for decades of brain drain uh to the metro or to Fargo area um everywhere it seems like but here. So um that's a very very important piece of this from the city standpoint. The numbers really speak for themselves as far as I'm concerned. It's a site that contributes roughly $80,000 in property taxes every year that could generate over a million dollars annually once developed. And because this is commercial property, that is going to strengthen our schools, our roads, excuse me, and parks without increasing the demand for public services. And I really feel like that is a win for every resident. Importantly, this project brings infrastructure and benefits that are more than just for the developer. Extending city water and sewer really opens up this new land for future residential and business growth area. Um, and a lot of that the developer is taking on and the city will benefit ultimately from that—the city and its constituents. Um, the company's made clear their commitments: no groundwater use, no water-based cooling, all environmental standards are going to be met or exceeded. So, this is very exciting from a business perspective. We often say we want Hermantown area to be a place where people choose to invest and this really is that moment. This project will put people to work, broaden our tax base, and showcase Hermantown and St. Louis County. Thank you so much for considering what this investment means, not just today, but for a generation of residents to come. Thank you for your time. [44:37] Acting Mayor John Geissler: Thank you. Um, next is Rebecca Grandorf. [44:49] Rebecca Grandorf (4198 Solway Rd): Um, I have concerns about the AUAR itself, but I'm just going to talk about the rezoning. Um when I was looking at the comprehensive plan that you guys just sent out in April to the city, um I noticed that it referenced other plans that you guys made and there was one that was the Adolph neighborhood plan. I went ahead and tried to find that and looked at it and it said that the plan for that area—when you guys talked to the residents in that area in 2014—was that those people in that area wanted to maintain the rural character of their neighborhood and they wanted to limit the business growth in that neighborhood. Um it seems that maybe you guys adopted that as your philosophy. I'm not sure because I couldn't find—all I saw was a draft. But I'm a little bit confused how we did a 180 and with this comprehensive plan suddenly went from "we're going to maintain the rural character of a neighborhood" to "we're going to have a data center." And I think that you guys, when you wrote that plan, already knew that the data center was being proposed. It doesn't make sense any other way. People are touting the extension of the services to this site as a benefit to the community. I live in that neighborhood. I own a farm. It's a business one block off of Midway Road, which is where that extension of public services is mapped to be. I do not see that area being opened up to development as a positive for people who are living in that area. I find that you guys turning around and suddenly flipping your plans for certain areas instead of trying to preserve the rural character which people value in this community—suddenly deciding oh this is a great opportunity for development, more money. I do not find that as a benefit. I bought my property in 2016 with my husband. We started a business. We farm. Our business is successful. People enjoy the vegetables that we produce. We're doing a successful business. And by you guys coming into these areas and developing them, um you're messing with people's lives. I also feel for the people that don't live in Hermantown. This development that you guys are proposing is right on the edge of Hermantown. There's people in Midway Township who did not know that this was happening unless they were following Hermantown politics, which I doubt they were. Um, and some of these people who don't even live in Hermantown are going to be some of the ones that are most affected by this development and the change in their neighborhood. And I find that disgusting. [47:58] Acting Mayor John Geissler: Thank you. Um, I believe it's Pete Taylor. Again, if you could uh state your name and address, please. [48:07] Peter Taylor (4198 Solway Rd): Peter Taylor, 4198 Solway Road, resident of Hermantown. Thanks for the opportunity to comment, share a few thoughts. So, I heard um that, you know, facts are important. And I heard it said facts are important and I first learned of the fact that the proposed action is a data center around September 24th, September 25th, not from the city of Hermantown, but from the Duluth News Tribune. And a concern I have is that the Minnesota Environmental Policy Act requires that an environmental review transparently and completely describe the proposed action. The AUAR fails to comply with the Minnesota Environmental Policy Act because it does not completely and transparently describe the proposed actions—such as saying it's a data center and describing all the characteristics that go along with that. Um, so that's a fundamental concern. Um, I think it's the wrong thing to do even if you're inclined to approve this data center, to approve it now. You need to restart a public comment period. You need to edit the AUAR to transparently describe the proposed action. It's the wrong thing to do to keep this secret and have it revealed by the Duluth News Tribune. So, you have the opportunity to do the right thing and go through the process even if you want to approve this project. Um a couple other things: environmental impacts, alternative sites should be carefully examined. There are brownfields out there. I heard brownfields talked about. Um that could be better than eliminating forest and wetlands. Um another thing, noise. Um, you know, if I were living next to this center, I would be worried about hearing noise constantly, even if it's below 50 dB, the MPCA rule. So think about eliminating audible noise in the nearest residence. Uh, so again I guess my final comment is you have the opportunity to do the right thing: be transparent in the AUAR and restart a public comment period. [50:17] Acting Mayor John Geissler: Thank you. Um, next is Cararissa Beck. Then again state your name and address please. [50:34] Cararissa Beck (3505 Solway Rd): Hello. My name is Cararissa Beck. My address is 3505 Solway Road. I'm actually in Solway Township, but if this data center goes forward as planned, it will be directly in my backyard. For the people promoting this and taking notes behind me—if this is going to get pushed through, come buy me out now while my house still has a value. Um, I've been thinking of how best I can spend the three minutes allotted to me to try to convince you that more information is needed before moving forward with this project. How in three minutes I can share the beauty of my property with 120-year-old oak trees where I've raised my children, where I plan to spend my retirement after military service and decades of public service work. How in three minutes I can share with you the absolutely devastating effect this massive 1.8 million square foot of concrete nothingness will have on my property and all of the surrounding land and properties around me. How in three minutes I can reference the negative effects data centers across the United States have caused including plummeting property values, exponential rise of energy costs, creation of noise pollution, strain on local resources and infrastructure, health concerns from chronic exposure to emissions and air pollutants that cause respiratory problems and other long-term health issues for community members. How in three minutes I can share with you the frustration of how little information on this massive project has been openly and honestly shared with the community it will affect. How in three minutes I can express to you the destruction this project will cause of my home, my livelihood, my peace, my enjoyment, my property value, the land I leave my children. I will not be able to open my windows. My children will not be able to go outside to play without hearing the relentless buzzing of this concrete data machine. How in three minutes I can express frustration over the lack of transparency of this project and ask whether the city of Hermantown has established a residency buffer plan to mitigate the negative effects of this data center on our rural properties. Frequency of humming and droning sound produced by continuous cooling operations and backup diesel generators. The constant noise disrupting sleep, reduced quality of life, addressing the aesthetic eyesore these large monolithic concrete industrial buildings create, ruining the aesthetic beauty of our rural properties. Addressing buffers to minimize the impact on properties of the outdoor lighting required for safety and security at these data centers that cause significant light pollution and run all day and all night. How in three minutes I can express concern over whether special land use permitting processes have been followed, whether they include a noise impact assessment, water consumption plan, water conservation/scarcity plan, energy consumption plan, transmission line impact assessment, tree preservation, reforestation plan or storm water management plan. How in three minutes I can be assured that based on the enormous size of this industrial development, there's a requirement for a closed-loop water system so that any water that's pulled is recycled and reused within the system. How in three minutes I can be assured that the residents all along the municipal water and sewer line—promised to be part of the project paid by the developer—will not result in forced hookup and assessments for all of those property owners along the way. A route we don't even know or see any plans for as of yet. How in three minutes I can express my understanding for economic development but request the kind of development that benefits a community. This project drains our resources, provides zero long-term sustainability, jobs or growth. I think I heard 40 long-term jobs. It does not bring any meaningful amount of long-term jobs, instead consumes measurable amounts of water and other resources. I implore you to defer this decision for this data center for more meaningful testing and community input. I have more to say but that is what I got for my three minutes. Thank you. [54:17] Acting Mayor John Geissler: Thank you. And again if we could hold our applause please. Um next is Anna Estep. [54:42] Anna Estep (5861 St. Louis River Rd): Hello. Um, Anna Estep, 5861 St. Louis River Road. Um, live pretty close to Cararissa and her daughter is always at my house playing with my two children. Um, I grew up in Hermantown, lifelong resident, and I thought this would be the best place to raise my children. We bought our property, beautiful land. We're currently buying the land behind us from our neighbors because we want more land. Beautiful, serene, peaceful trout fishing. The other day, my kids were outside fishing in the backyard. Okay, where else can you do that in Hermantown? Not many other places. Um, however, especially the biggest concerns I have besides everything else people have said. Um, property value going down. My kids are nine and seven. My husband and I will not be there once they're graduated. Um, last one graduates in 2036. Who's going to want to buy my property if this building is this big data center is there? Nobody. All right. They might for a very nice price, but I'm not going to get my money's worth. Um, looking at the figure 10 AUAR draft 2040 land use, it cuts into my current property and the property I'm buying. No one—like what kind of value am I going to get from that? So, once again, like Cararissa said, please buy me out now. I need the value that my house is worth, my land is worth. Um, but none of us right there are getting, you know, we're not seeing that because we don't have the land they need right now. All right. So, something I think for people that are in the way of the current or the proposed 2040 land use, something needs to happen with that. Um, also the city water sewer. Yes, I know it's been said multiple times that it's going to be city water and sewer. Um, but last couple weeks ago when I learned about this, I spoke to Joe on the phone. Um, and I was I was pretty heated about it. I was upset. Um, and I, you know, we talked about that and, you know, what if things go wrong? What if the developer decides otherwise and they want to use groundwater? What happens to all of us then? Um, the noise. Yes, we've got possible noise. You know, we got noise when the buildings are built. What about all the noise from the construction? That's what we hear now. All right. So, it's not just when these are built, it's the construction noise. Um, so just once again, like this is where I wanted to raise my family. And quite honestly, my husband and I are looking to go elsewhere. Thank you. [57:04] Acting Mayor John Geissler: Thank you. Next is John Nordine. [No response]. Okay, thank you. Next is Dennis Loal. [57:27] Dennis Loal (5502 Hermantown Rd): Dennis Loal, 5502 Hermantown Road. Um, I think what's been said is said most everything I want other than a couple of things. Um, I'm about a mile from as the crow flies from Adolph. I hear noises from Adolph already. Um that you wouldn't consider that loud. So that noise of 50 dB is going to carry all through the community. Um I think what the city the council is doing, the decisions they've made, they may consider good for the city, but I don't think they're good for the community or for the residents. Um we are a residential community. This is going to make us more of an industrial community. Hermantown's too small for that. Uh I agree with the statements that state that a large corporation can do anything they want in a small community. They love the idea that we're just this small little city because we can't amass a fight against it. Uh, I do have I am very concerned about who the company is and I'm curious if they aren't the same company that just bought out Minnesota Power. Um, because then they're going to have a lot of power and a lot of control over this whole project. Um, decisions made about the power and where it goes, costs, things on that order. So, uh, I'm not for the data center. Uh, I've read up on them. I haven't heard anything good about data centers from residents. Thank you. [59:11] Acting Mayor John Geissler: Thank you. Next is Sarah Loal. And again, state your name and address, please. [59:18] Sarah Loal (5502 Hermantown Rd): Uh, my name is Sarah Loal. I live at 5502 Hermantown Road. Um I have major concerns uh with this as well mostly uh involving the lack of transparency with who the company is and the project as it stands. Um most of the residents weren't made aware of the project or the extent of the project until very recently and we are here now to talk about voting to make changes already. I think this process has gone way too fast. I think you need a lot more input from your residents. It's great to have economic development. Everybody wants that. But is this the the type of economic development we want in our community? We're talking about a million square feet of concrete in a forest. The people who are going to be living around that are going to see it constantly. It will be there. It will not go away. Long-term effects of a concrete building that may or may not work out. We're going to be dealing with this for the rest of our lives, the rest of our children's lives, the rest of their lives. Uh if anything were to go wrong environmentally, how would that affect our communities, our groundwater? I have very little faith in a Fortune 50 company that they are going to have my interest at heart if something were to go wrong. We have Superfund sites in Minnesota that are still being fixed. Uh I do not foresee that if something catastrophic were to happen with the chemicals that are going to be used at this plant for whatever it is that they're using—that you've stated in here—because apparently we're not using water to cool. My assumption is there are chemicals involved in that. If there is any kind of chemical spill that goes into our community, will this company actually fix it? Will this company actually clean it up to the point where no one's going to be affected by it? I don't believe that to be true because the history of any large company leaves their residents that they are living next to in the lurch. I do not want this in my backyard. I don't want to hear it in my backyard. And I urge you to think what it would look like in your backyard if you turn around to the beautiful field or forest that you would have had and instead now you have a concrete building. We moved to Hermantown, Minnesota because we liked the residential feel of it. We liked the rural feel of it. We like being close to Duluth where we can have our urban sprawl, but we like our trees, our forests, our streams, our animals. I look outside and I have deer, foxes, all of that. I don't want to see a concrete building. So I urge you first of all to look at the environmental impact not just of right now but of if something were to happen. What will that actually look like and how as a small residential community we can fight back against a Fortune 50 company that has done something wrong—because I don't think we'll be able to. We're handing our power away and I don't like that at all. [1:02:57] Acting Mayor John Geissler: Thank you. Um, next is—I can't read the first name—last name is Lasher. Is it Shane Lasher? [1:03:14] Councilor Lasher (807 N 57th Ave W): Yeah. Councilor Lasher, 807 North 57th Avenue West. Sorry, my handwriting is bad. Um, that's why you couldn't read my name. So, yeah, don't make the zoning change. I'm not assured by the info provided here tonight and I don't like the lack of transparency thus far. Um I got to thank everyone who shared their story beforehand and I agree with a lot of the main points of property values going down, water usage, electricity rates. These are really concerning to me. I lived in Hermantown most of my life for all my childhood and I recently moved to Duluth, but it's disheartening to say that I when I learned about this it's like 10 minutes from my house. Um and other folks tonight have shared that they are much closer. Um and so thinking about data centers, they're really the interest of tech billionaires and their AI projects. Um new draw of—yeah, it's explicitly AI and there's a lot of feelings about AI. I am not particularly fond of it at all. On top of the actual local effects on residents, the increased utility rates um raising our rates, right, just by the amount of power that will come from these projects historically of all these data centers, right? And considering the recent acquisition of Minnesota Power by BlackRock and how private equity also tends to raise um utility prices, electricity—this is going to be another strain on top of that. So um thinking about the health effects of these data centers is also very concerning. The air pollution by the diesel backup generators—oftentimes the pollutants they emit increasing cardiovascular conditions and elevating cancer risk in communities, right? So that's just a broad overview. My main point is we're decreasing our quality of life for the profits of billionaires and their AI project. Fortune 50 companies do not have our best interest at heart. So this would be furthering a dystopian future. I just want to say no thank you. We need a better future. Yeah. Um if folks want to learn more about data centers and good comprehensive overview I recommend the YouTube channel More Perfect Union. They have several videos on this topic. Thank you. [1:05:33] Acting Mayor John Geissler: Thank you. Next is Tom Huniki. [1:05:46] Tom Huniki (3797 Keen Creek Ln): I will try. Uh my name is Tom Huniki. I live at 3797 Keen Creek Lane. I've seen this drill before in another community in Minnesota where a company—in fact it was several companies—come in and they have this grandiose idea of building this great factory, great community, and then reality sets in and I saw several of these projects go to hell in a handbasket because what they promised did not happen. What I have not heard from anyone on this project is a cost-benefit risk. I've not heard any of that here. I've heard plenty of risk expressed back here. A lot of risk. Right now in a negotiation, who has the power? You have the power. As soon as you sign this marriage certificate with the spouse we don't even know who it is, the power shifts to them—that company. Trust me, if it's a Fortune 50 company, they have more lawyers than you see people in this room. And if you get into a peeing contest with them, you lose. We will all lose. So, you got to get your ducks in a row. You got to get some community involvement. All the questions asked here tonight need to be answered to the public. And any questions that you can think of need to be answered to this community. Okay, I know you have a job to do. I know you have a job to do. That is community development. But in this one, be careful. I saw the timeline to start construction next spring in that AUAR or whatever you call it—next spring. And then there's a page of permits that are required. Heck, we can't get a permit to build a bridge over Keen Creek for a trail. And you want to do all this by next spring? I don't see it happening. I would challenge you: Take all these questions. You've got it on tape. Put them out there on the website. Answer them as best you can. What are the costs to the city to do all of this? What is the benefit? What's the tax benefit? Don't just say it's going to be a lot more tax dollars. You can put some numbers to it. Think it through. Thank you. [1:08:19] Acting Mayor John Geissler: Thank you. Um, next Lori Johnston. [1:08:36] Lori Johnston (5154 Levake Junction Rd): Shooting from the hip. Lori Johnston, 5154 Levake Junction. I just recently found out about this 4 days ago. The amount of secrecy alone about this is very very worrisome right away. I don't trust you—and I'm sorry, I know some of you and I know you're trustworthy, but that's where I go with this. I agree with everybody that's been talking. It's the issue of water, electricity, clear-cutting our land. That's why we're here. That's why we have this Hermantown community. We live here for a reason. And the fact that we want to be competitive. I ask you: Why do we want to be competitive? We chose this place to live for a reason. And we're here for the nature, the animals, the forestry, and you want to destroy that. There are no benefits except for 40 to 100 jobs that probably won't even be people from around here. Construction going on for 8 to 10 years—the noise, the destruction, the traffic. How's the traffic going to work? I mean, this is beyond comprehension to me why anybody would even want to bring this into our community. I just don't understand it. And these poor gals over here. Holy crap. This isn't in my backyard, but it's close. V-Junction is close. And I already got a lot of noise just from the place on the corner there of Levake and Maple Grove. Constant constant construction. I've watched videos about these places. I couldn't find a lot of information because I only had four days. But I've seen people who have bought beautiful ranches and now all of a sudden they've got a data center across the street from them. The light pollution alone from those places is immense. There's no peace for them. The buzzing all night long, the lights—they turn off the lights in their house and their whole house is illuminated all day long. It's just terrible. There's videos of the explosions just while they're building and the land is rippling, literally rippling through their property. That's going to go on for 8 to 10 years. Eight to 10 years and it's never going to go away. Never going to go away. In the meantime, we've got a whole community here that expects you to stand up for us and our best interests because what will happen at election time, we'll remember if you stood up for us. And I also wonder why isn't this on a ballot? Why is it just up to you folks? Should be on a ballot. That's my thought. Okay. That's all I have to say. Thank you. [1:11:34] Acting Mayor John Geissler: Thank you. Next is Rachel Johnson. [1:11:48] Rachel Johnson (Apex): Uh Rachel Johnson, 5702 Oneida Street. Good evening, council members and acting mayor. I'm Rachel Johnson and I serve as the president and CEO of Apex and we work in communities like Hermantown all across northeast Minnesota on economic development projects. And I'll say it's really great to have so many here tonight involved in the public process and all your concerns are being taken into consideration here and including thinking about the community benefits. There's been a lot of excellent points raised. But for many generations, our region has focused on the three T's to support its economy: Taconite, Timber, and Tourism. These industries remain foundational. But the overarching force that integrates into all of these and transforms them for the next generation and for the future is Technology. It drives efficiency across a diverse cross-section of industry and our livelihoods and economies are increasingly dependent on technology. To drive growth and to sustain our standard of living, we must fully embrace technological transformation—the next T in our story. It will shape our future. It will provide opportunities for our youth to keep us relevant and valued in a globally competitive economy. But to embrace technology, we must support new infrastructure build-out and invest in the workforce of tomorrow and forge ahead so that we have continued prosperity that many of the residents here have been enjoying in order for the future residents to enjoy as well. As you've likely heard across our nation, tech companies are looking for places to invest, catalyzing our ongoing industrial transformation. And it's time to build upon the successes that we've already had and become a next generation technology hub. It started in 1994 with Cirrus Aircraft establishing its company headquarters just next door and growing and evolving into its recent build-out of the recent innovation center. Next came the build-out of Involta, now named ARK. It is a data center that exists in neighboring Duluth that has been operating in our community since 2013. Technology advancement is not new to our region. Companies like Altech and Bot Crew and Exodus Global and Spear AI and others are leveraging innovation in our talented workforce. Investment in technology is a critical input to the research and development from our university systems to commercialization. Additionally, this investment can support educational resources, mentoring, and training for young people like those participating in our globally competitive K-through-12 Northland robotics teams. And we have to think about the next generations statewide. We work with partners at the Department of Employment and Economic Development, and they have identified technology and advanced manufacturing as growth opportunities for our entire state. And so here in our region, we can capitalize on our history of success and align statewide with our state and regional values. So we see data centers as essential digital infrastructure necessary for powering modern life and a foundational investment. And we encourage you to approve the resolution before you tonight. Thank you. [1:15:26] Acting Mayor John Geissler: Thank you. Next is Dan Olsen. State your name and address, please. [1:15:35] Dan Olsen (Superior, WI): My name is—excuse me, my name is Dan Olsen and I live in Superior, Wisconsin. Um, I want to thank Acting Mayor and Councilors and all the people that are here this evening to express their opinions, their concerns. Um, I'm going to touch on the ordinance for the amending the official zoning map. That's an opportunity for you folks um not necessarily for this project that's being proposed but for the area, for the region and if you look at doing that at your next reading, it gives you the opportunity for a lot of things to come in the future. As far as the resolution—the concerns I think that whether there's an EIS or not—Environmental Impact Statement—this is a resolution. And a resolution is just allowing you to get on board with what's being recommended. Resolutions can be altered. They can be amended. They can be turned into ordinances. Ordinances are laws. Resolutions are just something you sign on to and support. As far as there was concerns about workforce and construction workers—if this goes through, I represent the Duluth building trades. I represent up to 6,000 working families, union families, many that live in Hermantown, some of us that live in Superior. So, we have a workforce for you. And if this goes through, we'll come back and talk to you about a project labor agreement to make sure that there's local people on this project. But as far as what you've got in front of you tonight, think about the resolution that you're looking at approving. Consider the two weeks that you've got till you hear the ordinance again at your second reading. And I hope you'll consider passing both of those. Thank you. [1:17:28] Acting Mayor John Geissler: Thank you. Next is Clayton Childs. You can state your name and address and reminder to try to keep your comments to about three minutes. [1:17:42] Clayton Childs (4318 Tyogga St, Duluth): Hi, my name is Clayton Childs, 4318 Tyogga Street in Duluth, Minnesota. I'm the treasurer of the Duluth Building Trades and also the business agent of Local 11 Plumbers and Pipefitters. I represent over 800 men and women in the trades of plumbing and pipe fitting. And as Local 11, we support this project. So, thank you. [1:18:02] Acting Mayor John Geissler: Thank you. Next is Nate Rickard. [1:18:14] Nate Rickard (4878 Trails End Dr): Hi, uh Nate Rickard, 4878 Trails End Drive, Hermantown, Minnesota. Um I agree with other people that were here. Uh I was looking for information on this and it's been hard to find a lot of information. Um but I do support this project. Uh I think for the tax revenue that'd bring for Hermantown—last eight years my taxes went up 50%. Um I think we need to look at projects like this to increase our tax revenue to try to support how many people we have in Hermantown. I've had three kids go into Hermantown school. The youngest one's in fifth grade. They said that—I was talking to the elementary school—they said that all class sizes are maxed out. We're going to need a bigger school at some point, but we need more tax revenue to not increase everybody's taxes. And I don't know how anybody's making it on a fixed income around here. I'm fortunate enough to work still, but we need to—I got to thank everybody here for looking at projects like this trying to do that. Um, the other thing for supporting it, I would only support it too if it went union labor. So, uh, we have good local union labor here that would be happy to man this project. So, uh, thank you for your time. [1:19:35] Acting Mayor John Geissler: Thank you. Next is Tim Resburg. Again, state your name and address. [1:19:56] Tim Resburg (3646 Midway Rd): The name is Tim Resburg, 3646 Midway Road. On this project, they're talking about the use of water for cooling. I've worked on the databases. I've been in electrical trade 40 years and I've worked on substations and these places get awful hot. What is the plan for them and chemicals for cooling this place? Another thing we got to look at is the other pollutions for air and that. And then what about the Rocky Run and the Midway River? They're putting this place in wetlands behind there where the Rocky Run runs into is the trout stream and the runoffs of everything else in the wetlands is going to run into the Midway River and the pollution control for that. Besides that, what about when they're building this plant? What's going to happen to the residents and all of them are on well water? When that starts polluting their well waters or depleting their wells, who's going to pay for that? And then with your noise pollution, these databases, they have to have backup generators and they have to be tested every so often. And the noise that these things create is hard to believe when they start them up. And then you're going to have your light pollution on there for lighting everything up. And the residents that live around there are going to be having to live with that shining into their rooms and that. And what's it going to cost us with our property value? I got a small farm there, too. And when you look at this, this isn't the size of a white business and manufacturing. There is some white businesses in manufacturing in Hermantown and they are nowhere compared to the size of what's going in. I don't know how you can consider that a light business and manufacturing with the size of this thing—it's over 1.8 million footage. That's not small. And then you said down there that they said that they're going to have holding ponds. And where are these holding ponds going to go when they overrun? And is that going to be polluting people's well waters? The price of our property is going to go way down. And people that were saying before—it's nice to live in this area because you've got the animal life, you've got the trees, you've got your privacy, and you don't have all this noise that's going to be coming in. Okay, Joe, I won't yell at you anymore, but we would like some answers from you. If you could give it to us people, it would be really nice. Thank you. [1:23:45] Acting Mayor John Geissler: Thank you. Next is Jeannie Wartman. [1:23:55] Jeannie Wartman (5180 Levake Junction Rd): Oh, I'm Jeannie Wartman. I live at 5180 Levake Junction Road. Um, first red flag for me for this was not hearing anything about it, but hearing that people who live in that area were selling property and had to sign non-disclosures about it. Um, and then I didn't know too much about this and I last couple days had a chance to look at some videos and some things online and call somebody I knew who knew about this kind of stuff. This paper that we got today was pretty vague. Um, doesn't really give you a lot of information, but the one thing that did um that I did notice is this says that—I'm talking about the noise here—the similar comparison is the sound of a refrigerator or a quiet dishwasher at 50 dB. Um, one thing I noticed is a quiet dishwasher is not 50 dB. A loud dishwasher is at 50 dB. So, kind of makes me think that somebody's trying to pull the wool over our eyes a little bit. Um, second here. Uh, another thing that I read or maybe saw online is that the noise from—the ambient noise from these places are not regulated and it's a pretty kind of new territory for the people that do regulate it and so there's not a whole—there isn't a whole lot of information. I don't know if you have it, but I sure couldn't find it. Um, the ambient noise—I was thinking about the people who have the farms. The ambient noise doesn't just bother us. It bothers the animals and the bugs and the bees and the owls and the bats. And um some people smirk when I talk about the animals and the bugs, but we need them. Um you have farms, you need to have the bees around to pollinate. And I don't need to give you a big lesson on the birds and the bees, but you know that that's important. Um the other thing that we got to think about on this is the future and we're just we're looking at a little piece and it's like everybody's talking about money money. I don't think anybody in this room is really ruled by money. I think we're more concerned about living a healthy life around here and leaving the place a nicer place for our kids and our grandkids and the people that come after that. Well, that's all I have to say. [1:26:34] Acting Mayor John Geissler: Thank you. Next is Elijah Hoffman. And um state your name and address for the record and keep your comments around three minutes if you can. Thank you. [1:26:49] Elijah Hoffman (5521 Weston St, Duluth): My name is Elijah Hoffman. I live at 5521 Weston over in Duluth. Um I printed a couple things off for you all. I didn't know what this would look like here tonight. Um, I got to say also thank you to everyone here. This is pretty amazing to see how many people are engaged and expressing their concerns. [1:27:07] Acting Mayor John Geissler: If you'd like that for the council, you can give it when you're done to the city clerk and she'll make sure that we all get a copy of it. [1:27:13] Elijah Hoffman: All right, will do. Yeah. Well, there's been a lot of talk about um—well, I guess first I should say that um I came here today to oppose this proposed project. Um, I share many of the concerns with the lack of transparency, um, and just the general rush to get this project done. Um, I would support going through the environmental review process as opposed to the expedited process that you all chose. Um, and then, yeah, so there's been a lot of talk about the economic promise of this project. Um, but there's trade-offs. That's something that's central to economics, right? Um, so I wanted to point to two things that are very central to Minnesota's economy, especially up here in this part of the state. Um, and also to our quality of life, right? A lot of people have been talking about um, their concerns for the environment. Um, so there's birding. Um, and I have some data just from US Fish and Wildlife Service about how much money birders spend uh, in communities. So annually—and this was 2022 data—um birders spend around 107 billion dollars a year. $107 billion industry. Um and the average birding trip is about $399. So over 20,000 people come to Duluth to Hawk Ridge annually. That's just one event. That's just one little park, right? Um, if each of those people spend $339 in our community on food, on lodging, on a local mechanic, whatever it may be, that's enriching our community. Um, that's $6.8 million being spent. Um, one event, one year, happens annually. Um, yeah. And then trout fishing. Um, that's another thing that's very central to the culture here, um to our quality of life and um something that we value greatly. Um this is 2024 data from DNR. Uh Minnesotans spent over 1.1 million just on trout licenses alone. That's not including, you know, the money spent coming up to places like the North Shore for steelhead fishing. Maybe they spend the night at Airbnb or uh you know they're going to the local bait shop or to the restaurants, whatever. Again, enriching our community. And then at the heart of it is: Is that a trade-off that we want to make? Do we want to make a trade-off? Do we want to sell our land and water for a data center? Do we want the economic activity that surrounds data centers or do we want um to embrace the natural resources that we have up here? Um all right, I think that's about what I got. Thank you. [1:30:13] Acting Mayor John Geissler: Yes, you can give your information to the clerk. Thank you. Next is Ty Sunberg. [1:30:33] Ty Sunberg: Good evening, council. I am Ty Sunberg, owner of J&RS Design and Build located in Duluth. I am a Two Harbors resident. I've spent my life building homes and opportunities across St. Louis County. My passion is helping this community grow in a way that makes sense um for the people who live here now and for the generations coming after us. Um, this proposed data center represents a major investment. Uh, hundreds of millions initially and potentially billions over time. It means over a thousand construction jobs and up to 200 high-wage technical roles. That kind of growth builds strength for housing, for schools, and for small business. So, I understand um especially tonight there are concerns and I want to be clear that I do care about all the folks that are concerned about this and live near this site. Um, growth can't come at the expense of community, but it also can't be avoided out of fear. So, there's got to be balance in all things. We all depend on technology. I'm pretty sure everybody in this room um streams, scrolls, stores, connects. Um, all this data is being processed somewhere and hosting it here in our community is a way that we can manage it responsibly and benefit from it locally. So, this project won't use groundwater. Its demand is modest, about the same as a car wash, as has been stated, and the developer is paying to extend these utilities. At the end of the day, this isn't about sides, it's about balance. I think if we have an open conversation, we can all work together um and move forward with progress that benefits everybody. So, thank you for your time and for leading um with common sense and I uh I am obviously in support of this. [1:33:01] Acting Mayor John Geissler: Thank you. Next is Owen Lions. And state your name and address for the record. [1:33:14] Owen Lions (5143 Arrowhead Rd): Hi, my name is Owen Lions, 5143 Arrowhead Road. I've lived here for 68 years, born in the town of Herman. Um, I'm totally opposed to this in that area. We have Highway 53 corridor. We have over by Air Base Road which is all commercial that is actually light industrial over there. I owned a lot there at one time. Um just just the pollution alone of that site—that front corner is actually swamp. How it got to be—I learned about this a week ago. I went over there. When you have Miller Trunk Corridor and a lot of land there that—your light pollution alone will be seen in Proctor. It'll be seen at Miller Trunk. These poor people that live there—I'm glad I'm not a neighbor because I like when I sleep, I like darkness. Their houses will be illuminated 24 hours a day. Um, I'm not a great speaker, but I'll tell you one thing. Right across the street, there's a trout stream, Rocky Run, Midway River, and I used to catch rainbow trout in there. Your parking lot and your runoff is going to go right into that river. Um, your parking lot runoff—pesticides, oils, antifreezes, and the pollution from that building. I think it's the wrong area. I like jobs and you're saying no new taxes. I've heard that line of dance before um many times. Police, law enforcement, utility workers, fire department, and on and on. And street equipment. Our taxes are going—don't lie to us no matter what—the people that are on the water sewer line, their taxes are going up. Um, it's no good. Um, two years ago, I got a letter in the mail—unnamed stream, the Sunquist property, an unnamed stream. All you have to do, there's a stream, you follow it, it goes to Rocky Run, Midway River. I wasn't here to oppose it. Now we have townhomes next to that unnamed creek. Our taxes are going up every year, up and up and up. And my house is for sale in the next two weeks. I can't afford to live in Hermantown. I was born 68 years ago here. My grandfather was the project manager of the Jackson project houses and I am leaving. Can't afford the taxes in Hermantown anymore. Thank you. [1:37:24] Acting Mayor John Geissler: Thank you. Um, next is—am I ever ready to have the next one? [Audience interruption]. Nope, not now, sir. Uh, there'll be another time to public speak um and you can then, but this is not a question and answer time. This is for—you can contact Mr. Wicklund um during business hours. Thank you. Hi. State your name and address, please. [1:37:57] Abby Devetti (4958 Greystone St): Um, council members, thanks for having me here today. As I walked up here today, I saw a lot of familiar faces. Abby Devetti, 4958 Greystone Street. I'm going to take a breather. This has been a long hearing for all of us. As I walked up here, I saw a lot of friends. Um, we've worked with each other. I graduated from UMD. I went to school with a few folks here and my kids play soccer. So, I've seen a lot more folks on the soccer field. What attracted me and our family to Hermantown was the outdoors, the small town feel, all the wonderful things. When I graduated from UMD, my friends all moved away because they couldn't find jobs in the area. I work in the technology sector and I've been to a lot of data centers. Uh I've been to all four data centers here in Duluth. I've been to over 30 of the 84 data centers in Minnesota and close to 100 data centers in the US. I've been doing this for 18 years. I've had a chance to go in them. I've spent a lot of time outside of these. And I've worked for an organization that sends millions of dollars a year to data centers outside of our area because we don't have any. That's money leaving our community. That's opportunities and jobs leaving our community. Over the last 5 years, I've had a chance to see some incredible changes in technology. We had folks doing remote school, remote work. Um, I've never seen kids more disadvantaged having to do their school work from home. Uh, a few years ago I had the privilege of being on the broadband council here for the city of Hermantown. We are at a disadvantage. Our kids are at a disadvantage because we don't have the infrastructure to make it work. We need to invest in our future. Now, I'm not here to say if you all should vote yes or no. Um, the law's very clear. Um, I think this is a fantastic opportunity. I've heard a lot of folks here share their concerns. I think they're all very, very legitimate. Um, this is going to bring better utilities. This is going to bring some great one-time investment opportunities—investment opportunities that only happen once in a lifetime. This is going to bring better jobs, better opportunities. Hopefully bring my friends back from the cities who moved there because they couldn't find jobs here. And you know what? Hopefully, it'll keep my kids in the area when they want to get in the tech sector. When they want to find a job that's well-paying up here, I hear everyone. I share everyone's struggle when we talk about our taxes going up. Is this project going to reduce our taxes? I don't know. But what I do know is not doing something today, not investing in our future, is going to cost us. There have been a lot of talks about failed data center projects. Can we make this a success so we can see what this would do for our community? Thank you. [1:41:18] Acting Mayor John Geissler: Thank you. Um, last person to sign up here, but there's still another opportunity. Plenty of opportunity. Uh, Amelia Serrano? [1:42:01] Amelia Serrano (333 N 70th Ave W, Duluth): Hi, my name is Amelia Serrano. Um, I live in Duluth, 333 North 70th Avenue West. Um, when you look out at vast, profound Lake Superior, how do you feel? When you hike the trails of our many woods? What are your favorite sounds? What are your favorite smells? When spring finally arrives after our long dark winters, what plants do you look most forward to seeing? What do you love most about the nature found here in the Northland? Sorry, I'm nervous. "The care of the earth is our most ancient and most worthy and after all our most pleasing responsibility. To cherish what remains of it and to foster its renewal is our only legitimate hope." I share my thoughts about some of the beautiful unique nature here to the Northland area um and that quote about taking care of the earth because I believe that the changes that will happen to the environment from these proposed data centers will negatively impact the environment in permanent ways. Why should delinquent corporations have a legal charter to make enormous profits by destroying the public good and the planet? We need this level of tech—and don't get me wrong, I love technology and there's a lot of really wonderful benefits for the medical field, for scientific discoveries—but some technology, this level of technology, we don't rely on. We don't rely on scrolling on our phones. We don't rely on some of these things. We do rely on water and we rely on air and animals and all of the nature around us. Um, I've heard a lot of people say, "Not in my backyard," but I don't think it should be in anyone's backyard. This isn't something that we need. [1:44:23] Acting Mayor John Geissler: Thank you. Okay, that's the last of anybody that signed up, but I will call if anybody is here who didn't sign up, but would still like to speak on the uh first reading of the zoning ordinance. Um, now would be your opportunity. Um, if you want to speak, address the podium. State your name and address, please. [1:44:48] Miranda McKay Chambers (5477 J-Bar Rd): Hi, my name is Miranda McKay Chambers. I'm at 5477 J-Bar Road. I wanted to address—I wasn't going to speak tonight um having a lot of big feelings—but I listen to my fellow citizens of Hermantown and I hear a lot of people very much against this. There were a handful maybe of actual residents of this town that are for this data center. The other people that are for this data center are not Hermantown residents. They stand to gain money from this build. They are not the people living here. They're not the people that are going to be affected long term by the effects of building this industrial place right here in nature. The people who live here do not want this. I don't think right now we need this. We live here because we want to enjoy life. And I really think that we need to listen to the people who actually live in this community, who want to continue living in this community. We don't want this. Thank you. [1:46:22] Acting Mayor John Geissler: Thank you. All right. One more call if anybody would like to speak on um ordinance 2025-17, an ordinance amending title two of the Hermantown city code by amending the official zoning map. One last call. Can address the podium and state your name. [1:46:58] Pastor Noah Johnson (4938 Greystone St): Pastor Noah Johnson, 4938 Greystone Street. I want to say that—I want to first of all say thank you. Uh you're doing a fine job. Um my wife and I also own Ever Smiles pediatric dental office in Hermantown. And so we look at it from both sides. Um, I think there are important points that are being made, but as a father, uh, I have two kids in the Hermantown schools, and we love living here. Uh, we've lived in Duluth, we lived in Nashville. And I want to raise up those points of why we love it here and we don't necessarily complain about paying the taxes that we pay. It's a fine place to live. So I would caution you to move forward wisely. I'm happy to see the good turnout. Listen to us as residents and move forward carefully. Thank you. [1:48:10] Acting Mayor John Geissler: Thank you. All right. Would uh anyone else like to speak, please? If so, please address the podium and state your name and address. One last call. Anybody would like to speak regarding ordinance amending title two of the Hermantown city code. All right. Um again, this is a first reading of the ordinance and there's no action taken tonight on that matter. Uh we're going to move to resolutions and the first resolution is um the AUAR. Um so moving to resolutions. Resolution 2025-147, resolution adopting the final Hermantown industrial alternative urban area-wide renewal AUAR document and mitigation plan. Do we have a motion on that resolution? [1:49:10] Councilor Andy Hjelle: Motion to approve. [1:49:14] Acting Mayor John Geissler: Motion by Councilor Hjelle. Do we have a second? [1:49:15] Councilor Joe Peterson: I'll second. [1:49:18] Acting Mayor John Geissler: Second by Councilor Peterson. Um, again, Mr. Mulder and city staff are going to talk about this and there will be another opportunity for public comment. So, Mr. Mulder. [1:49:30] City Administrator John Mulder: So, I'm going to ask uh Eric Johnson to simply talk about the AUAR process and how we got here from there. [1:49:36] Community Development Director Eric Johnson: Great. Thank you again, Mr. Mulder and members of the council. So the alternative urban area-wide review or AUAR—this environmental review process has been going on for the past eight months. So during this process there have been three documents prepared and created which looked at a study area of 403 acres with up to 1.8 million square feet of industrial-based buildings. Uh the scoping document—which was the first document created—as well as the draft and final AUAR documents analyze the 403-acre study area and provide information pertaining to the following. These are 10 items of basically a total of 17 that have been looked at as part of that AUAR document. But these include climate adaptation and resilience, land use, geology, soils and topography, water resources, fish, wildlife and plant communities, air, greenhouse gas emissions, noise, transportation, and cumulative potential environmental effects. So the first step in this process was a scoping document which commenced in February of '25 and was published to the Minnesota State Environmental Quality Board on May 6th and was open for public comment from May 6th through June 5th. So during that time period the city received two public agency comments and one public comment. Uh the next step was the preparation of the draft AUAR which expanded upon the information presented in the scoping document and reflected comments received from the public agencies and the public at large. Uh the draft AUAR was published on August 5th and was open to public comment from the 5th through September 4th. During that time period, the city received three public agency comments and two public comments. The following step was the preparation of the final AUAR which finalized and provided clarification on the information presented in that draft AUAR and reflected the comments received from public agencies as well as the public at large and provided responses to those comments. That final AUAR was published on September 16 and was open to comment from September 16 through September 30th. Uh there were no further comments or objections from public agencies during this time period. Now, however, between September 24th and September 30th, city staff had received hundreds of public comments in the form of emails and voicemails. Uh, these have been focused on the project primarily around environmental concerns such as water usage, effects on groundwater, impacts to local watershed and Lake Superior, energy and electrical usage, as well as increased costs for residents. Now, in the case of all these voice and emails, city staff listened to each voicemail, read each email—we documented those, provided those as an ability to look at that in tonight's agenda as part of our public comments. And in cases where people asked for additional information, city staff reached out to these people and had conversations with them as well. So also included in this final AUAR document is a mitigation plan which provides an understanding of the actions that are advisable, recommended or necessary to protect the environment and minimize potential impacts of the proposed development. The mitigation plan identifies the specific resources, the mitigation of any impacts and who the responsible party is to enact that mitigation—whether it's a developer, whether it's a city, whether it's a county agency. So this document has been prepared and seen by numerous public agencies: the MPCA, Minnesota DOT, Minnesota DNR, and numerous different public agencies that have looked at these things in the past. And likewise, receiving all the comments from other public residents as well. [1:53:37] City Administrator John Mulder: Mr. Mayor, do you have anything to add? No, I just think at this point, you know, we've heard a lot of um comments about the project and about the AUAR, but this would be an opportunity for people to—if they want to make any further comments, that'd be fine. I don't know if it's necessary for them to repeat them, but but again, if people want to make a comment on this particular resolution, they could. [1:53:59] Acting Mayor John Geissler: Before we move to public comment, I'll ask other councilors if they have any questions for staff at this time. [1:54:12] Councilor Brian LeBlanc: I have one, Eric. Uh give me an example of the difference between advisable, recommended and necessary and did we get any comments that were necessary? [1:54:21] Community Development Director Eric Johnson: So as far as—sorry—so these basically look at different um—basically the advisable—let's for instance use necessary. That gets into uh water quality, the wetlands, things of that nature. Um as Mr. Ronchetti had spoke about, let's use wetlands for instance—there's a very rigorous review process associated with any sort of wetland impacts whether it's for a residential house or whether it's a project of this scale. So these are reviewed not only at a local level as far as St. Louis County but also the Board of Water and Soil Resources which is a state agency and then also getting up to the Corps of Engineers. So these are things that are actually necessary and required that they go through that process. [1:55:09] Councilor Brian LeBlanc: Okay. Thank you. [1:55:12] Acting Mayor John Geissler: No other questions from the council at this time. All right. We'll open it up to public comment. Again, I don't have a list this time. If you'd like to speak, um certainly we'd like to hear your comments. Again, as Mr. Mulder said, try not to repeat what you've already said, but if you have something new to add relative to the AUAR, um you're welcome to address the council. Uh if you wish to please step to the podium, state your name and address for the record. [1:55:44] Dan Olsen (Superior, WI): Thank you again, uh acting mayor and counselors. Uh Dan Olson, Superior Wisconsin. Um, as I stated earlier, this is a resolution now, and a resolution should be viewed as a working document. So, if you're looking at approving this, you'll be able to at some point in time amend it. Uh, you're signing on to whether you support this or if you fail it. But it's a resolution that can be discussed, it can be changed, it can be amended. So, I encourage you to uh approve this resolution. Thank you. [1:56:29] Acting Mayor John Geissler: Thank you. Is there anybody else that like to speak to the council? State your name and address, please, for the record. [1:56:45] Jonathan Thornson: My name is Jonathan Thornson. I'm a Hermantown resident on Hermantown Road. Um, thank you for doing this tonight. Um, I did not plan on speaking, but I I did learn of the AUAR uh about 15 minutes ago. So, uh, I find myself fairly well connected with what's happening in the city. And so, I'm concerned. I'm concerned the fact that that this has been going on for apparently, uh, nearly nine months, and I'm just hearing about it. I am a resident uh that is fairly close to these properties that you're looking at. So, um, I just want to help out the folks that are here and and maybe some of those folks that may be watching online. Uh, the AUAR is an acronym for the Alternative Urban Area-wide Review. That's the Alternative Urban Area-wide Review and that is in replacement of a standard environmental assessment worksheet. And I would just ask uh the council to table this at this point and and give us some answers as to why you chose to go uh that route. Uh that's as simple as that's my simple statement for the evening. Um I'm very concerned that I'm just learning about this as a property owner that's very nearby. Uh not sure why this wasn't uh disseminated better. Uh but yes, I'm just learning about this now and I think that is a shortcut to the ultimate decision to bring this data center to town. And I'm not totally opposed to the data center at this point. I'm here listening. Uh I'm just really concerned about this specific decision tonight. So, thank you. [1:58:36] Acting Mayor John Geissler: You can approach the podium and state your name and address again. And it's a reminder to if you have something new to add, we'd like to hear it. [1:58:44] Tom Huniki (3797 Keen Creek Ln): Tom Huniki, 3797 Keen Creek Lane. So you have a motion in front of you to approve this resolution. In layman's terms, what are you being asked to approve tonight? How far off the diving board are we going on this process by approving this resolution tonight? Because I think there's confusion. Sure as heck is with me and I think other people are wondering what are we jumping into right now tonight? How far down the process are we? Would you please answer that before you vote? Thank you. [1:59:28] Rebecca Grandorf (4198 Solway Rd): Rebecca Grandorf, 4198 Solway Road. Um, one of the things that I'm most worried about about the AUAR as opposed to the other types of environmental um, review processes is the fact that um, it can be amended without going back to public comment. Um, you guys have touted that as a benefit of this type of review process because data centers take a long time to build and like things might change. I find that really scary that things can be changed and that you're not going to bring it back out for public comment. Um, like I stated before, I'm a farmer. I live three miles from this proposed data center. Um, I'm worried about the noise carrying because I'm outside all the time. I'm worried about potential um pollution if there are in fact backup generators that are being run um for testing or if they actually have to be run to run this data center. Um, this there's new information that I'm getting tonight that this isn't going to be water cooled. There's nothing in that document—I read that thing through—there's nothing in the document stating how this building is functioning and how they're cooling it. I feel like as a community, we deserve to know better. I feel like we deserve a review process that is going to protect us. Um, it seems like the AUAR was chosen because it's best for the developers and the company that's building this data center, not that it's best for the residents of Hermantown. Um, yeah, I can't think of anything else. [2:01:34] Acting Mayor John Geissler: Okay. Um, yep. Please address the podium. State your name and address. And again, if something other than what you already stated. [2:01:41] Lori Johnston (5154 Levake Junction Rd): Absolutely. Uh Lori Johnston, 5154 Levake Junction—jump in the junction, you know where that is. Anyway, uh I wanted to leave you with some figures that I forgot to mention earlier. These were things that I found online in people who have lived around these areas: Electric bills increasing 267%. Water bills increasing. Carbon emissions increasing by 220 million tons—tons, I said million, it's a billion with a B. The other thing is the size of Hermantown. We're talking 403 acres. Roughly what, 640 acres in a mile? We have 34.37 miles in Hermantown. Kind of makes it sound a lot bigger, doesn't it, than saying 403 acres? It's a huge chunk of Hermantown and it's going to affect all of us. And you're talking about, well, we'll get tax money and we'll get this for the schools and we'll get that and your taxes won't raise. We've all been here long enough to know that's not true. It's just not true. We were all here and voted on the school referendums and yeah, we wanted the school, but we were lied to about how much our taxes were going to increase. We were lied to a great deal about that. So the whole "we're not going to be polluting you," "we're not going to be using your water," "it's not going to affect you"—it's not just for benefits. The only people benefiting are the billionaires that live in their mansions on every continent or below ground where they're building their little nests for safety. They aren't touched by this. They're the only ones that will get any benefit from this. We get nothing but pollution and destruction. That's all I have to say. Thank you. [2:04:02] Tim Resburg (3646 Midway Rd): My name is Tim Resburg, 3646 Midway Road. And uh are you looking into the DNR for this building site and everything? And are you going to go into the Minnesota environmental—? [2:04:18] Acting Mayor John Geissler: Again, Mr. Resburg, this is not a time for question and answer. [2:04:22] Tim Resburg: Oh, no. Just asking if that's going to be— [2:04:25] Acting Mayor John Geissler: I think that was addressed by Mr. Johnson that the the document was reviewed three different times uh by state agencies and they did comment on that and Mr. Johnson would have those comments available. [2:04:40] Tim Resburg: Could we get some information publicly on that? And then it was publicly stated too a while back with the water usage for the databases would be 200,000 to 300,000 gallons a day. Now all of a sudden it's dropped down to 50,000. And if you know why if you could give us an answer why there's such a big change in it. Thanks. [2:05:22] Adam Maris (4212 Levake Rd): Adam Maris, 4212 Levake. Um I'm a little bit disappointed in the council right now just because of the transparency. It seems like this has kind of dropped on us like a lot of your constituents, also known as voters. It's important to be transparent with us. We should have known about this a long time ago. Seems like this was just dropped on us. I found out about it on Sunday, yesterday. My wife found about it on Friday. Seems like all of you could have been a little bit more transparent letting us know what was going to happen. I think that we should get behind our ironworkers and our plumbers and construction workers, but maybe this isn't the right project. Maybe it should have an EAW. Maybe there should be a little bit of a slowdown. Table this. I would second tabling this and actually sitting there and asking yourself: Why are they trying to rush us? Why are they trying to make us do this so fast? Ask some more questions. Slow down. You need to listen to us. Not the billionaires, not the people that are running big corporate Fortune 50 companies or anything like that. You need to slow down. Listen to your constituents. There's time. Thank you. [2:06:59] Sarah Loal (5502 Hermantown Rd): Uh hi Sarah Loal, 5502 Hermantown Road. Um, I have major concerns uh with the facts that were stated where this was brought up back in whenever it was earlier this year and there was only two comments on it. Then it was here and only two comments on it and then in the last what, the 24th through the 30th there were hundreds of comments on it. I would like to remind the council: You have no ability to make a comment on something unless you know the scope of the project. Having an environmental review for a random plot of land—I don't know what that's for. And as far as I'm concerned with this meeting that we've had today, even if I had come to you to say, "Hey, what is this environmental review for?" You wouldn't have told me because you couldn't talk about it. So, how am I supposed to make an informed decision and comment about something like an environmental review if I don't understand the scope of the project? So, what you're dealing with right now are a bunch of people who are pretty ill-prepared to comment on this project because we've only had a week to really understand the scope of it and come up with our questions. So if you're going to be making sweeping changes to something in order to push through a project, we need to know the scope of the project first so that we can make an informed decision. We were not allowed that. So I would ask you please table this and have more public comment. Now that we know the project and people can actually look into what this environmental review is, what it means, and have more information about what this data center is going to bring to our community. You want your residents to support you. We have no ability to support you if we do not have the information and the time to actually look up this information and to talk to you about it and to learn about it. So again, please slow down. We're trying to catch up with you. You are already there. We're trying to catch up. You need to give us time and you haven't so far. So that is my plea to you: Give your residents more time so we can be informed and come to you with real questions that aren't rushed and maybe actually get answers. Thank you. [2:09:56] Nate Rickard (4878 Trails End Dr): Uh, yeah, Nate Rickard, Hermantown. I guess what what she was talking about, too. You know, it looks like—it seems like a lot of people are, you know, they don't they don't have a lot of the information. You know, I I do support this project, but I think that there has been—when people don't have information they kind of jump to worst-case scenarios, I think. Um, I don't know if there's a way of tabling it to to to get more more input from the public. I think there's things that that company could do to benefit, you know, like they're talking about the sound—can they put a sound wall around it? The trout stream—can they stock the trout stream? Is there stuff that they could do for the community, too? Invest in the community, not just the project itself. I don't know if they're planning on doing that. Maybe they are, but to second that one gentleman—I didn't catch his name the first time—talked about you guys have the power right now. They're coming to you to build this thing. So I would just use that and make sure that's supporting what everybody thinks about about supporting the community too and we're using that negotiation in our best interest. Because whoever negotiates this, they got to be on point in my opinion to try to try to benefit the community. But I I do support it and I think it's a good thing. It just needs more information. [2:11:37] Dennis Loal (5502 Hermantown Rd): Dennis Loal, Hermantown. I'll make it quick. If there's any place in Hermantown that would need an environmental review, it's there. There's two trout streams going right into that place. I used to snowmobile up there and fish up there. That place needs an environmental review if any place does. The other part is is I don't want to say I'm against the data center. That's just not the location for it. Not for something like that. Find a different location in Hermantown. But I think the reason they want it there is because there's a substation there and it makes it cheaper for them to build. Great. Why was a substation put there? It wasn't because they expected a data center to go in. Okay, find a different spot. Move the power. But putting it there is good for them. It's not good for us. So I recommend not approving this AUAR thing and require an environmental review. Thank you. [2:13:02] Jeannie Wartman (5180 Levake Junction Rd): Jeannie Wartman, 5180 Levake Junction Road. Um, I still don't understand why we are not allowed to vote on this, but whatever the reason is, you know, I'm no civics expert, but uh, could we at least have more public conversations about this and you table it until we can have more information, more input on it? [2:13:42] Acting Mayor John Geissler: Thank you. Any other comments regarding the uh adopting the final Hermantown AUAR and mitigation plan? Hearing none, Mr. Mulder. [2:13:58] City Administrator John Mulder: Okay. I was going to ask you to uh—we had a couple of questions that I'm hoping you can shed some light on. Um Mr. Huniki uh asked the question, "What does this mean?" And maybe you can clarify what adopting this means. And then uh we just heard the question about uh the process of development, you know, why didn't the citizens get to vote on this? Um maybe just explain that a little bit, how the city government works and what would get voted on and what would not. Well, two parts of that. I've been working in city government for 40 years and I'm still learning. Um but there's a large part of that process is that this—this is just part of that process. Um it is a part of a process where we look at "what are the things we need to look at?"—that scoping document. We do a draft. We talk about with the the experts in terms of the environment—Minnesota Pollution Control, DNR. We engage them. The Environmental Quality Board—we engage them through this process. That's how this—that's what this is happening here. And tonight, what you're approving is simply those parameters and the review of this urban area. You are not approving a data center tonight. You're not even approving a zoning tonight. You're simply approving that you've gone through a process to look at the environmental impact process with people that are specifically dealing with Minnesota Pollution Control, DNR. You're dealing with the experts in those areas in terms of "what is the impact on the environment if something like this happens?" And what this does is it kind of gives you some parameters in terms of what could happen there and it ultimately moves down the list. So it moves down from 400 and some acres at one point in time down to 220. 220—that's 1% of the entire land area in Hermantown. So this is the equivalent of 1% of the city of Hermantown, but this is a process where you review that you're now accepting that approval and at a later point in time you'll take—if the council so chooses—you'll take action to rezone and then at some point in time there'll be other permitting processes for that and we will follow the typical process that we do for any development. This development, while its scale is much larger, will be handled just like we handled Walmart and Fleet Farm and every other development in town—like we will handle anything that might be proposed at the Hawkline Business Park where we went through an AUAR there as well. So, this is part of that process to do that. So tonight you're approving the AUAR, if you so desire, which lays the parameters for what could happen there and then what actually is going to happen there will be presented through the Planning and Zoning Commission and then through the City Council. Lighting landscaping, screening, grading and filling for purposes of "where's the water going?" What does the storm water management plan look like? What does the wetland impact look like? How are we going to protect that stream that's there—just like we've done with all of the other projects we've done throughout the history of the city. [2:18:48] Councilor Brian LeBlanc: Councilor LeBlanc makes a really interesting point though because in my role of working so closely with the public, part of what I heard today was the idea of wanting more information and and actually tabling this would get in the way of any potential future actual applications that will get us closer to that operationally. So, the idea that more information is coming—I appreciate Councilor LeBlanc pointing that out because again, we're very much at the beginning of a process, not at the end or final stage. [2:19:46] Acting Mayor John Geissler: Thank you for that clarification. Uh, does council have any other questions for staff? Um, we have a motion on the table to adopt the uh AUAR. Um, and with that, I'll call for a roll, please. [2:20:11] City Clerk Alissa McClure: Councilor Peterson? [2:20:13] Councilor Joe Peterson: I. [2:20:14] City Clerk Alissa McClure: Councilor Hjelle? [2:20:15] Councilor Andy Hjelle: I. [2:20:17] City Clerk Alissa McClure: Councilor LeBlanc? [2:20:18] Councilor Brian LeBlanc: I. [2:20:20] City Clerk Alissa McClure: Acting Mayor Geissler? [2:20:22] Acting Mayor John Geissler: I. Um at this time that is the conclusion of the uh data center. If people would like to exit the chamber they can. Otherwise uh convene and continue our business. The next resolution is 2025-148 resolution approving the employee handbook. Do we have a motion? [2:20:41] Councilor Brian LeBlanc: Move to approve. [2:20:44] Acting Mayor John Geissler: Motion by Councilor LeBlanc. [2:20:45] Councilor Andy Hjelle: Second. [2:20:46] Acting Mayor John Geissler: Second by Councilor Hjelle. Mr. Mulder. [2:20:48] City Administrator John Mulder: So this is a compilation of the various policies that we've had in place. I think this is the first time that I can recall that we've ever had one single place with the compilation of all the various employment-related policies um for the employees. So, this is work that we've been working on for about a year and a half um with Church and Associates. [2:21:14] Acting Mayor John Geissler: Councilors have follow-up questions? All right. We're going to ask the audience if they have any questions or comments and would like to address resolution 2025-148, resolution approving the employee handbook for the city of Hermantown. Would like to address the council. State your name and address please. One last call. We'd like to address the council regarding the employee handbook. The Council. No questions. No questions. All right. Roll call, please. [2:21:51] City Clerk Alissa McClure: Councilor Hjelle? [2:21:52] Councilor Andy Hjelle: I. [2:21:53] City Clerk Alissa McClure: Councilor LeBlanc? [2:21:54] Councilor Brian LeBlanc: I. [2:21:55] City Clerk Alissa McClure: Councilor Peterson? [2:21:56] Councilor Joe Peterson: I. [2:21:57] City Clerk Alissa McClure: Acting Mayor Geissler? [2:21:59] Acting Mayor John Geissler: I. Next item. Uh, next resolution is 2025-149. Resolution approving change order number 35, KA change order number 11 for the Northstar Ford Arena in the amount of $25,475.35. Do we have a motion? [2:22:21] Councilor Joe Peterson: I'll make a motion to approve. [2:22:24] Acting Mayor John Geissler: Mr. Peterson. Second? [2:22:25] Councilor Andy Hjelle: Second. [2:22:26] Acting Mayor John Geissler: Second Hjelle. Mr. Mulder. [2:22:28] City Administrator John Mulder: So, these are for the large signs in the arena. There's one for the Hawk, the Mirage, the City of Hermantown logo, two plaques—one funded part by the state of Minnesota, the other one made possible by and that will include the city council members—and then some cast aluminum lettering for the arenas. [2:23:05] Acting Mayor John Geissler: Time for public comment regarding this resolution. Would like to address the council regarding resolution approving change order number 35 for the Northstar Ford Arena. We do so now. One last call for public comment regarding resolution 2025-149. Any questions by the council? This is all things still within our budget, I'm assuming. [2:23:36] City Administrator John Mulder: Yes. [2:23:37] Councilor Brian LeBlanc: Do you have an idea of where the—man, I'm blanking on the— [2:23:42] City Administrator John Mulder: Contingency? [2:23:43] Councilor Brian LeBlanc: Thank you. Yes. [2:23:44] City Administrator John Mulder: Yes. Now, I can't do this off the top of my head, but we know that the city of Hermantown's contingency has been spent and we're relying on additional fundraising. KA's contingency is—again, I don't want to testify in federal court with this—but I want to say it's around $200,000. We've got about a month to go yet for KA's work. [2:24:05] Acting Mayor John Geissler: Uh, any other questions? Roll call, please. [2:24:14] City Clerk Alissa McClure: Councilor LeBlanc? [2:24:16] Councilor Brian LeBlanc: I. [2:24:18] City Clerk Alissa McClure: Councilor Hjelle? [2:24:20] Councilor Andy Hjelle: I. [2:24:22] City Clerk Alissa McClure: Councilor Peterson? [2:24:24] Councilor Joe Peterson: I. [2:24:25] City Clerk Alissa McClure: Acting Mayor Geissler? [2:24:27] Acting Mayor John Geissler: I. Motion carries. Thank you. Uh, next resolution 2025-150. Resolution approving pay request number 16 for the Northstar Arena, Kraus-Anderson Construction Company in the amount of $1,540,475.48. Do we have a motion? [2:24:52] Councilor Joe Peterson: I make a motion to approve. [2:24:53] Acting Mayor John Geissler: Motion by Councilor Peterson. [2:24:54] Councilor Brian LeBlanc: Second. [2:24:55] Acting Mayor John Geissler: Second by Councilor LeBlanc. [2:24:57] City Administrator John Mulder: So this is the payment for the work that's been done in the last month. Just give you an update about this. Um they are still on schedule for substantial completion right around November 7th. Um and then the hope then is that we can get at the audio-visual and the furniture stuff—all happen after that because then they won't be—the project labor agreement won't be in effect at that point in time. And we are shooting for a grand opening/first game in like January 2nd and 3rd, that first three-four days of January. [2:25:39] Acting Mayor John Geissler: And I believe the ice is going in in the next couple weeks. [2:25:42] City Administrator John Mulder: Yeah, the ice is going in. They did the final wear coat on the parking lot last week. I noticed driving by there today, the parking lot was striped even. So, they are getting close to wrapping things up. [2:26:08] Acting Mayor John Geissler: Calling for public comment on resolution 2025-150. Resolution to approve payment request 16 to Kraus-Anderson Construction for the Northstar Ford Arena. Anybody like to comment on that one last time? Anybody interested in addressing the council regarding resolution 2025-150? One last call. Councilor questions? No. Roll call, please. [2:26:50] City Clerk Alissa McClure: Councilor Peterson? [2:26:51] Councilor Joe Peterson: I. [2:26:52] City Clerk Alissa McClure: Councilor Hjelle? [2:26:53] Councilor Andy Hjelle: I. [2:26:54] City Clerk Alissa McClure: Councilor LeBlanc? [2:26:55] Councilor Brian LeBlanc: I. [2:26:56] City Clerk Alissa McClure: Acting Mayor Geissler? [2:26:58] Acting Mayor John Geissler: I. Resolution 2025-151, resolution approving a special use permit for grading and filling the Tomlin shoreland area. Do we have a motion? [2:27:08] Councilor Brian LeBlanc: Move to approve. [2:27:11] Acting Mayor John Geissler: Motion by Councilor LeBlanc. [2:27:12] Councilor Andy Hjelle: Second. [2:27:13] Acting Mayor John Geissler: Second by Councilor Hjelle. And we're going to give the Tomlins the award for sticking it out. I think that's the best. And maybe we could have Eric Johnson just kind of explain this. [2:27:26] Community Development Director Eric Johnson: Great. Thank you very much, Mr. Acting Mayor and members of the council. As mentioned, this is a grading and filling in a shoreland area, 5037 Anderson Road. This is a 20-acre lot with an R3 zoning with it. Uh the Midway River runs along the western and northern portions of the property, and that's where the shoreland area comes from. So, the vast majority of the request—the applicant is looking to construct a new driveway and potential future accessory dwelling on their property. The vast majority of this driveway is actually outside of the shoreland area and that work has already been completed as part of the process. So, the applicant had gone through the proper steps. They contacted a wetland delineator. Wetland delineator came out on the site, marked where the edges of the wetland were. The applicants did reach out to city staff, requested a driveway permit, which was approved and reviewed by public works. Lastly, they also had a land disturbance permit which was applied for but was in the process until the SUP became evident. So the SUP actually just dictates any grading and filling activities within that shoreland area. So that really takes place once again in the more northern part of this work area. So the applicant did go through all the proper steps. They just went a little bit faster than the process should have been. Uh once again they showed that they wanted to do the right thing. Uh just with the process of competing permits from the city standpoint that they continued to move forward. So uh city staff has continued to speak with the applicants giving them indications of what has been done so far, what needs to be done in the future, etc. So we've maintained those lines of communications with the Tomlins just to be able to complete this project for them. [2:29:27] Acting Mayor John Geissler: Um any questions from council? All right, public discussion. Uh would anybody like to speak to the council regarding resolution 2025-151, resolution approving special use permit for grading and filling? Second call for public discussion regarding resolution 2025-151. None. No other questions from council. Roll call, please. [2:30:05] City Clerk Alissa McClure: Councilor LeBlanc? [2:30:06] Councilor Brian LeBlanc: I. [2:30:07] City Clerk Alissa McClure: Councilor Hjelle? [2:30:08] Councilor Andy Hjelle: I. [2:30:09] City Clerk Alissa McClure: Councilor Peterson? [2:30:10] Councilor Joe Peterson: I. [2:30:11] City Clerk Alissa McClure: Acting Mayor Geissler? [2:30:13] Acting Mayor John Geissler: I. Resolution 2025-152, resolution approving special use permit for the construction of a two-family home in an R3 residential zone district. Do we have a motion? [2:30:24] Councilor Andy Hjelle: Motion to approve. [2:30:25] Acting Mayor John Geissler: Motion to approve by Councilor Hjelle. [2:30:27] Councilor Brian LeBlanc: Second. [2:30:28] Acting Mayor John Geissler: Second by Councilor LeBlanc. Mr. Johnson's going to take this one. [2:30:39] Community Development Director Eric Johnson: Thank you. This property is located at 3971 Hannes Road. There had been an existing structure on this property previously. So, the applicant is looking for a special use permit to build a two-family structure on this existing 5-acre lot. Uh at a future date, the applicant anticipates subdividing this property further to be able to potentially create a flag lot for some potential development on the rear of that lot. Uh city staff has been talking quite a bit to this applicant as well as a couple other property owners in this area for other development activities or opportunities. Uh therefore staff was supportive and it did go through the planning process to request a variance should that property be further subdivided that they would have some lesser setbacks and a lesser lot area. But right now this is just a twin home and an existing 5-acre lot within the city. [2:31:25] Acting Mayor John Geissler: Any questions from council? [2:31:28] Councilor Andy Hjelle: Can't think of a better spot for a twin home. [2:31:33] Acting Mayor John Geissler: Uh any public discussion on resolution 2025-152, resolution approving special use per family home. Second call for public discussion regarding resolution 2025-152. Roll call, please. [2:32:08] City Clerk Alissa McClure: Councilor Hjelle? [2:32:09] Councilor Andy Hjelle: I. [2:32:10] City Clerk Alissa McClure: Councilor LeBlanc? [2:32:11] Councilor Brian LeBlanc: I. [2:32:12] City Clerk Alissa McClure: Councilor Peterson? [2:32:13] Councilor Joe Peterson: I. [2:32:14] City Clerk Alissa McClure: Acting Mayor Geissler? [2:32:16] Acting Mayor John Geissler: I. Resolution 2025-153, resolution approving the allocation of $100,000 to the housing trust fund. [2:32:23] Councilor Brian LeBlanc: I'll make a motion to approve. [2:32:25] Councilor Andy Hjelle: I'll second. [2:32:26] Acting Mayor John Geissler: Motion by LeBlanc, second Hjelle. Mr. Ronchetti. [2:32:32] Economic Development Director Chad Ronchetti: Council, on February 3rd earlier this year, this council created a housing trust fund to help incentivize and create housing development in the city of Hermantown and placed HEDA, the Economic Development Authority, as the responsible party, the administrator of the fund. HEDA has since in that time done some work around policy for how that fund will be utilized—has landed on preservation and rehabilitation of existing workforce, namely 115% AMI, and loans to that end as the number one priority. Second would be providing 0% interest construction financing for local entrepreneurs for new development and then third on the list would be potential acquisition by HEDA for the purposes of creating that workforce housing from scratch. Um we have had some interest from local developers and in fact a pressing project where there is existing workforce housing where structural issues were found in the rehabilitation of that project and the structural issues threatened whether or not those housing units can remain active in the city. They came to us and asked if there was anything we could do. We discussed the housing trust fund, did some work around policy as mentioned, and staff thought utilizing the cell phone tower antenna revenues that are deposited into the water fund would be a good source of funds to help capitalize the HTF and provide more flexible funding than the state-provided funds that are currently in there. So, before you is capitalization of that fund to that end, which would result in a lending agreement with HEDA should council approve this tonight. [2:34:43] Acting Mayor John Geissler: Any follow-up questions from council? [2:34:46] Councilor Brian LeBlanc: This money—marked for a project already? [2:34:50] Economic Development Director Chad Ronchetti: Acting Mayor Geissler, Councilor LeBlanc, that is correct. Uh the intent of this is to redeploy it very quickly. [2:34:57] Councilor Brian LeBlanc: Rehabilitation project—? [2:34:59] Economic Development Director Chad Ronchetti: For a rehabilitation project that would preserve two units within the city that have two families already in them dependent on the units. [2:35:10] Councilor Brian LeBlanc: Specifically bring that back—? [2:35:12] Economic Development Director Chad Ronchetti: Uh, yes. And it would be—once the funds are allocated—this would be brought back to HEDA for another action through a loan agreement. [2:35:24] Acting Mayor John Geissler: So HEDA would have to approve the specifics of the use based on the policy that HEDA has been working on. [2:35:32] Economic Development Director Chad Ronchetti: This puts the money in the fund. The city puts money into the HEDA fund and then HEDA has to approve the specific action because they're the administrator of the fund. [2:35:46] Councilor Brian LeBlanc: So if the city council disagrees with what the money's for, but we don't know what the money's for until it's already—how does that work? We wouldn't have the opportunity—you see where I'm going with this. So, are we just trusting in HEDA to spend the money wisely? Granted, we're all still on HEDA. I understand that. But the direction HEDA's going, we wouldn't be—? [2:36:14] Economic Development Director Chad Ronchetti: Yes, that's exactly right. Is that the city is giving HEDA money for this purpose, knowing HEDA's policies that you trust HEDA then to act within those policies for the funds that they were provided. [2:36:34] Councilor Brian LeBlanc: Yeah. [2:36:35] City Administrator John Mulder: And then if HEDA for some reason acted in such a way that the city council didn't like, you would never give them money back. [2:36:44] Acting Mayor John Geissler: Yeah. All right. Um, let's see. Is there any public comment regarding resolution 2025-153, resolution approving the allocation of $100,000 of housing trust fund? Second call for public comment regarding resolution 2025-153. None. Roll call. [2:37:05] City Clerk Alissa McClure: Councilor Peterson? [2:37:06] Councilor Joe Peterson: I. [2:37:07] City Clerk Alissa McClure: Councilor Hjelle? [2:37:08] Councilor Andy Hjelle: I. [2:37:09] City Clerk Alissa McClure: Councilor LeBlanc? [2:37:10] Councilor Brian LeBlanc: I. [2:37:11] City Clerk Alissa McClure: Acting Mayor Geissler? [2:37:12] Acting Mayor John Geissler: I. 2025-154 resolution approving change order number one for Blue Creek Trail segment 4 construction to Bite and Company in the amount of $19,328. Do I have a motion? [2:37:26] Councilor Andy Hjelle: Motion to approve. [2:37:30] Acting Mayor John Geissler: Motion to approve by Councilor Hjelle. [2:37:31] Councilor Joe Peterson: I'll second. [2:37:32] Acting Mayor John Geissler: Second by Councilor Peterson. Engineer Boll. [2:37:37] Northland Consulting Engineer: Thank you, Acting Mayor and Council. So, this change order is for the uh three culverts on the section of trail between Keen Creek Park and Morris Thomas Road that we did a few years ago. There's three culverts that have heaved, causing tripping hazards. So, uh, we'll be removing those, putting new culverts, putting concrete, and then doing some restoration with the top soil as well. [2:38:08] Acting Mayor John Geissler: Any questions from council? [2:38:11] Councilor Joe Peterson: I just have one question, and I should know this answer. Do we expect that to happen this fall or next spring? [2:38:16] Northland Consulting Engineer: We'll likely put the culverts in this year. That's the plan. [2:38:21] Councilor Joe Peterson: That'd be ideal to get that work done. [2:38:23] Acting Mayor John Geissler: Okay, perfect. Any other follow-up questions from council? Um, any public comment regarding resolution 2025-154, resolution approving change order one for Blue Creek Trail? Second call for public comment on resolution 2025-154. Hearing none, roll call, please. [2:38:52] City Clerk Alissa McClure: Councilor Hjelle? [2:38:53] Councilor Andy Hjelle: I. [2:38:54] City Clerk Alissa McClure: Councilor LeBlanc? [2:38:55] Councilor Brian LeBlanc: I. [2:38:56] City Clerk Alissa McClure: Councilor Peterson? [2:38:57] Councilor Joe Peterson: I. [2:38:59] City Clerk Alissa McClure: Acting Mayor Geissler? [2:39:00] Acting Mayor John Geissler: I. Still moving a closed session, I take it. [2:39:04] City Administrator John Mulder: Yes. [2:39:06] Acting Mayor John Geissler: All right. It can be short, but we—yes. Hermantown City Council pursuant to Minnesota statute section 13D.03 to consider confidential information related to labor negotiation strategy. Following a closed session, the Hermantown City Council will reconvene in an open session. Do we have a motion to close the session? [2:39:27] Councilor Brian LeBlanc: Move to close the session. [2:39:29] Acting Mayor John Geissler: Motion to close. Second? [2:39:31] Councilor Joe Peterson: Second. [2:39:40] Acting Mayor John Geissler: All in favor to close the meeting. I. [2:39:42] All: I. [2:39:43] Acting Mayor John Geissler: Oppose same sign. [Meeting closed].