[0:07] Dallas Pearson: I call to order of the January 4th 2024 uh Planning Commission meeting first order is to pledge of allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all. Luke, if you want to do the roll call. [0:36] Luke McClanahan: Yes. Pearson? [0:38] Dallas Pearson: Here. [0:39] Luke McClanahan: Willenbring? [0:40] Tom Willenbring: Here. [0:41] Luke McClanahan: Campbell? [0:42] Chris Campbell: Uh, present. [0:43] Luke McClanahan: Moli? [0:44] Tom Moli: Here. [0:45] Luke McClanahan: Di is absent. Um, Starki? [0:47] Commissioner Starki: Here. [0:48] Luke McClanahan: Hagen? [0:50] Commissioner Hagen: Yes. [0:52] Dallas Pearson: Oh you said here. You move your microphone over so people can hear you? I'm sorry, I'm kind of new. Okay, first order of business is nominations and elections of chairperson and vice chairperson. Um, so anyone wishing to be uh, either nudge your neighbor to uh nominate you or self-nominate. [1:13] Tom Willenbring: I make a motion to nominate Chris Campbell for the position of chairperson. [1:19] Chris Campbell: And I would make a motion to nominate Dallas Pearson for the position of chairperson. [1:27] Dallas Pearson: Anyone else? [1:29] Tom Willenbring: I second that. [1:31] Dallas Pearson: Okay. Uh, Vice Chair? [1:38] Dallas Pearson: I will make a motion to nominate board member uh I mean I'm sorry commissioner Tom Lyen for the position of Vice chairperson. [1:52] Commissioner Starki: Second. [1:54] Dallas Pearson: Anyone else? [1:56] Commissioner Hagen: I motion to close the nominations for chairperson and vice chairperson. [1:59] Dallas Pearson: Someone has to make the motion. [2:02] Tom Willenbring: I'll make a motion to close the nominations for the chair and vice chair positions. [2:07] Dallas Pearson: Thank you. All those in favor? [2:10] Commissioners: Aye. Aye. Aye. [2:14] Dallas Pearson: Opposed? So moved. Uh, we now use the ballots as presented to write your choice down. [2:28] Dallas Pearson: Okay, here we go. You ready? There you go. All right, thank you. Need a drum roll. Not as exciting as elections at the Vatican with the smoke rising. So, first one we have uh, chairperson for Campbell, Vice chairperson from Willenbring. Second is uh, nomination for the chair Chris Campbell and Vice Chair Tom Willenbring. Next one is uh, chairperson Pearson, Vice chairperson Willenbring. Next one is for chairperson Pearson and vice person Willenbring. Next is chairperson Pearson, Vice Chair Willenbring. Final one is for the chairperson Pearson and vice person Willenbring. That puts us at four for Pearson. Congratulations. Thank you for the support. Thank you for the run, Chris. [3:55] Chris Campbell: It’s a good race. Maybe next time. I thought maybe we're going to have to have the fire burn off and three to three. [4:06] Dallas Pearson: Uh, we need motions to accomplish this so I'm looking for a motion to elect uh, he is chairperson from someone. [4:15] Chris Campbell: I will make a motion to oh let's see where we are. We motion to elect board uh commissioner Dallas uh oh man, Pearson. Pearson for the position of chairperson for the period of one calendar year with today's date. [4:38] Tom Willenbring: Second. [4:40] Dallas Pearson: All those in favor? [4:41] Commissioners: Aye. Aye. [4:43] Dallas Pearson: Any opposed? Thank you very much. And now for a motion for uh Vice Chair. [4:48] Chris Campbell: I will make a motion to elect commissioner and that is Tom Willinger, Tom Willenbring, for the position of Vice chairperson for the period of one calendar year commencing with the current date of this meeting. [5:09] Dallas Pearson: All those in favor? Hi, need a second. [5:12] Dallas Pearson: Second? So I'll second. You can, you can second. Uh, okay, we'll start again. What, all those in favor? [5:23] Commissioners: Aye. Aye. [5:25] Dallas Pearson: Any opposed? Thank you very much. Right, just once a year. Much for that. Uh, approval of the minutes for November 2nd. Does anyone have any changes or revisions? [5:36] Tom Willenbring: I'll abstain from the vote. I was absent. [5:38] Dallas Pearson: Any others? [5:39] Chris Campbell: Move to accept. [5:40] Tom Willenbring: Move to accept. [5:41] Dallas Pearson: There's a motion to accept as presented. All those, all those in favor? [5:45] Commissioners: Aye. Aye. [5:47] Dallas Pearson: Any opposed? Thank you. Uh, Planning Commission review. Uh, old business we have none. So new business, the first is a public hearing on the Public Works facility at 3200 Granada Avenue North, a conditional use permit and site plan. Luke, your report? [6:04] Luke McClanahan: Yes, thank you. So as you just mentioned, Mr. Chair, the the site is uh 3200 Granada Avenue. So the property in question is on the west side of Granada about a quarter mile south of its intersection with 34th Street and the purpose of this request is to enable the development of a new Public Works facility. So there's really two parts to this request. The first is a CUP, conditional use permit, and approval for this is required for the public building. Um, and then the second part of this request is a site plan review for technical conformance with the city's zoning ordinance. So the zoning of this site is IO, that's industrial office. Public buildings are allowed in all zoning districts through the CUP approval process. Some background details: uh, the new Public Works facility site proposed at this property will continue providing critical public services to the city of Oakdale and its growing population. Uh, the existing site, the just down the road here off Hadley, it's it's aging, it's it's too small. There was a needs assessment that was done a few years ago. It was just determined to be too small of a site to accommodate, you know, the growth that we're seeing here in Oakdale. Now, the the current Public Works facility will continue to serve as a centralized wastewater treatment facility. Property details for this proposed site: it's just under 10 acres. It's a vacant site. It's surrounded by other industrial properties uh to the north and south and immediately to the west is a broadcasting center. On the east side of Granada Avenue is a handful of Residential Properties. Um, before I get too far, I do want to address the issue of site contaminants. So uh, the property is currently owned by 3M and it's identified as having contaminants on on the site. Um, cleanup and remediation of the site is completely separate from the applications that we have in front of us tonight and the state agency MPCA—so that's the Minnesota Pollution Control Agency—they are the ones responsible for reviewing and approving any remediation conducted at the site, and 3M is responsible for that cleanup. Here's a look at the site plan. Again, we're on the the west side of Granada. So where my cursor is, that's Granada. As you can see, there's two new accesses off Granada and those accesses are for the public, uh, public visitors coming to the new facility. Um, there are two new axises off 32nd Street here, actually technically there's there's three. So where my cursor is on the on that northeast side there, that's where the main entrance will be for staff parking. There's a staff parking lot there, and then the west entrance is the primary one to be used by Public Works for their fleet vehicles. There's also a smaller entrance here for uh to access a brush, snow, and firewood. In total, there's going to be 95 parking spaces: so about 11 for the the public visitors, 58 for the uh Public Works staff, and then an additional, excuse me, additional 26 service parking spaces for fleet vehicles. And that is in compliance with the code uh requirements. So the building is outlined in red just for readability there, you can see its silhouette. I do want to point out just a a few key key features of the site: so where my cursor is, that is a utility storage area, and then on the far west of the site is where uh salt, other materials are going to be stored on the site, and this is intentional in terms of where this was located, as far away as possible from the residences on the the east side of Granada. Um, a lot of details on just the site plan here. I have more to follow, but any questions before I move on? [9:58] Dallas Pearson: Isn't uh is that area totally, it's not totally cleaned up yet? [10:04] Luke McClanahan: That's correct. There's a lot of remediation that has to occur before any groundbreaking begins for this development. [10:11] Dallas Pearson: Okay, okay. [10:13] Luke McClanahan: And on the next slide here, I have the landscaping plan and the the landscaping uh proposal here does comply with zoning requirements. So in total, 155 trees will be planted throughout the property as well as uh a number of shrubs and ground cover plantings. So this development will prompt tree preservation requirements. Tree preservation plan has been prepared for this development. It's been reviewed by the City Forester, City legal, and and uh planning staff as well. So 3M again, they're the current property owner, they will be responsible for replacing 108 trees at a cost determined by the City Administrator. And uh tree preservation requirements are essentially separate from the site plan and and conditional use permit review that we have in front of us, and the City Council is the authority who actually approves it. Stormwater management for the site will be managed through an underground system. So as you can see on the the west of the site, there's a a rectangle, or excuse me, a square with diagonal lines, that's going to be where the underground system is. Moving on to some elevation uh images, I apologize, it's just difficult to see that level of detail on the screen there, but the top image is the east elevation. So that's the public entrance fronting Granada Avenue. The second from the top image is the the north elevation fronting 32nd Street and you can see that there are several vehicle bays there. The second from the bottom image is the west elevation, and then the bottom image is the south elevation which also contains a number of vehicle bays. In terms of exterior design requirements, the building uh not just meets but actually exceeds the zoning requirements for the amount of what we consider class one and class two exterior building materials for industrial buildings. So the east facade, again that's the public facing side, that contains 100% class one materials. So we're talking brick, glass, pre-finished aluminum metal panels, and then the other facades will consist of more than the required 60% class one and class two materials. So these include architecturally textured finished pre-cast concrete panels and insulated aluminum glazing systems and translucent glazing panels. So in addition to the site plan requirements which I just covered, uh the use, the public building, is subject to seven specific review criteria through the conditional use permit approval process, and staff finds that all seven criteria have been met as detailed in the staff report on file. And just to summarize those items: the use complies with the the city's comprehensive plan and zoning code, it's compatible with the industrial zoning district where it is located, the use will not be detrimental to surrounding property, it will not create traffic congestion, it will not be detrimental to the economic welfare of the city, and it will not cause adverse environmental impacts. So staff recommends approval of the conditional use permit and site plan subject to conditions that are found in the the resolution and the packet and I will um go over those. So the first one is the resolution for the conditional use permit, three conditions here: so the first one is approval of a site plan to allow the Public Works facility at this property. Second condition is permits and approvals must be obtained through the Watershed District. Number three, approvals must be obtained from the Minnesota Pollution Control Agency to address site contaminations associated with the property. Moving on to the conditions in the site plan resolution, so there are eight here and I'll summarize them. Number one is approval of a conditional use permit for the public building. Number two, approval through the Watershed District. Number three, approval of the site civil construction plans by the City Engineer. Number four, approval from the Fire Department for the proposed hydrant locations and fire department connections. Number five, a photometric plan be provided that that complies with the city's sight lighting requirements. Number six, the developer provide an updated site plan showing proposed rooftop and ground mechanical equipment and methods of screening in compliance with the city code. Number seven, approvals from the MPCA to address the contaminations of the site. And then number eight, um uh that one was slightly modified from the original packet that went out. You'll see that the updated language in the red text there: tree replacement for 108 significant trees at a cost determined by the City Administrator be provided to the city by 3M to satisfy tree replacement requirements. So uh, just a reminder, this is a public hearing. We have a number of folks here on the city's project team, we have other City staff who can assist if you have questions about this facility, otherwise I'd be happy to answer any questions. Thank you. [15:19] Dallas Pearson: Anyone have any questions at this point? [15:23] Chris Campbell: I have a couple. Um, I presume this is all fenced. Yes, what is the what is that material? Is it all chain link, is it you know an opaque fence along Granada, what's that look like? Sure, and I could defer to the team on on that detail. And then my other question was, I'm curious, I see these two trash enclosure locations. I'm just curious how kind of how we envision trash kind of moving throughout like a trash truck moving throughout the site? So is that just more of a concern about are they—is a large vehicle going to be able to make those turns? I mean the one closest to Granada is just buried pretty deep in the site. You've got to, you know, wherever they enter, they either have to go around the building or you know go through the entirety of the site to get to it. Sure. Um, so I'm just concerned I don't know what they're going to think about that from a safety hazard. You've got a third party driving through this whole site to get to trash. [16:28] Dallas Pearson: So a question I have, and before they come up, the other question that I would have is on the parking. The 26 uh spaces, I know that's been one of the the problems at the existing site is not enough room for all the vehicles. I just want to check on any possible expansion of that if they needed. [16:47] Luke McClanahan: Okay, for those questions I will defer to the the project team who who's in attendance here. [16:53] Dallas Pearson: And they can do that before we open the public hearing, or is that during the public hearing? Since your turn, you want me to open the public hearing now before they come or after for others? [17:04] Luke McClanahan: Um, I guess it's up to you, but there's probably nothing wrong with opening the public hearing first and inviting the project team to speak first. [17:14] Dallas Pearson: Okay, I open the public hearing on the Public Works facility at 3200 Granada Avenue North the conditional use permit and site plan. Gentlemen, if you could come forward. [17:34] Don Tyson: Evening Commission. I'm Don Tyson, the city's owner's representative for the project. I'll answer your first question on the fence along Granada. It is planned as an architectural steel fence, and along the rest of the property will be a black vinyl fence. [17:54] Chris Campbell: And sorry, just along Granada that's not an opaque fence though? More like a picket type fence or... [17:59] Don Tyson: The ornamental will be—it'll be a black metal. Uh, we certainly can get you a picture of that, uh, what it's going to look like, but it's going to be uh a very nice looking fence along Granada that the public will see. The rest of the property really isn't viewed; public's not going to have a real good view of the rest of the area, so it's—but it'll be a nice black vinyl that'll blend in with the property. [18:24] Chris Campbell: I guess really what I'm trying to get at is, can you see into the yard from Granada? [18:25] Don Tyson: Yes. [18:26] Jim Romanic: Good evening, Commissioners. Uh, Jim Romanic, Public Works Manager. I guess I could address the uh couple questions that are here for the trash enclosure. Um, so the entire yard for access for the yard, um, a trash truck will not have a problem making its way through the yard, um, because as we've been um doing these plans we've had to take into consideration the maintenance we do on fire trucks, and the the ladder truck that the Fire Department currently has is bigger than the garbage trucks that would service the site. So the locations for the dumpsters were picked based off of um yard space and accessibility from the building as well for the cleaning personnel and so you're not carrying the trash through the whole yard. So um, so the access shouldn't be an issue for that. Um, were there any other questions about that? [19:24] Chris Campbell: No, that—thank you. [19:26] Jim Romanic: And then the parking, um, there's plenty of parking on the site, um, in between the indoor and outdoor. Um, the outdoor parking would be used more for off-season type equipment, trailers, and and things like that, or um vehicles that are waiting to be serviced by the mechanics. [19:46] Dallas Pearson: I only asked because I I know that was one of the issues that came up at the existing site was you just didn't have enough room for vehicles. [19:54] Jim Romanic: Right, yep, that's been taken into consideration. So we do have enough parking space between inside and outside. [19:59] Dallas Pearson: Okay, any other questions from anyone? Thank you very much. [20:04] Jim Romanic: Thank you. [20:05] Tom Willenbring: I'm sorry, Tom did—yeah just quick. You've got a salt storage bin very close to your wetland. Do you have processes in place to mitigate any runoff on the salt bins into the wetland? [20:17] Jim Romanic: Yep. So the building will be enclosed, the only opening will be the the uh garage door, the doorway for the um truck starter. So the design of it will be so that the water won't drain to the wetland, then of course our best practices that we follow for loading and unloading is to load in and inside the building to try to contain as much uh spillage as we can. [20:39] Dallas Pearson: Anyone else? Thank you very much. [20:53] Dallas Pearson: Since it's a public hearing, if there's anyone from the public who wishes to come forward to make comment, please come forward. You give us our your name and address before you begin. [21:19] Andrew L: Yeah, we do. Um, my name is Andrew L. My address is uh 6559 31st Street North, and it's just right opposite where the proposed uh Public Works building is going to be placed. Um, I rise to object to the proposal for these reasons. I have uh a letter in my hands, it is the second of a notice that I've gotten from the city about this proposal. The first one was probably in 2019—I'm saying 2019 because that was about the time during COVID when the city was beginning to do uh Geotech uh investigations on the site. At that time we got a similar letter saying that that work was going to begin. I reached out, I came and I talked to the uh to the City Engineer then and asked if there had been any other consideration for other sites within the city that this uh this project could be built. Uh, did not get a really clear answer to that. As much as I will appreciate that uh the city is building, is growing—there are quite a few developments that are being built, but those developments are mostly happening, I would say on the—uh getting my bearings right—on the other side of 694. There are quite a few open spaces that I also see uh on that side of 694 as well. So I I see this as um putting a new facility, I'll call it a new a new facility, in an already developed area to accommodate new developments at a different spot of the city where I in my opinion there is space for them to accommodate that kind of building. And uh because again we as as a resident close to this upcoming uh a project, there is there has been truly a lack of information in my opinion on what on on what was being proposed uh in terms of uh um the gentleman city planner, sorry Mr. Mclaren, the comment about environmental impact. Um, without seeing the studies of uh the comment about no increase in traffic—but there's going to be increased in increase in trucks and and heavy trucks that are going to be accessing that facility. I I should have said that I moved in that I I moved into that neighborhood back in 2015 and throughout that neighborhood I'm seeing young families that have either moved in or are very recently moving into the area. So I am worried about the increase in truck traffic interacting with the younger kids or in in the entire neighborhood. I don't know if there impacts to noise, uh, because it's right about in a residential area. Um, I don't know where to find that information because again 2019 and then last week is the second notification that I got that this project is moving forward. Um, plans are being already drawn out, uh, the commission is looking at drawn out plans, yet we the residents, at least personally I have I didn't even know that uh planned we are already at a almost I call it a design plan phase of this entire process. [25:01] Dallas Pearson: So before you leave let me ask Luke question. I remember you were talking to someone about uh public awareness meetings. Were you gonna have one at some point here, or was that already had, what you done? [25:15] Luke McClanahan: No, and I can also defer to the project team here, but uh January 25th here in City Council chambers, there's going to be an open house. So a more in informal opportunity to learn about this project, learn about the the contaminations of the site. Um, so it's another opportunity for for public input there as well. [25:40] Dallas Pearson: And as for other sites, I I talked also to Brian Bach about it a few years ago, and so I know there was another site that was considered but was found inadequate. I maybe you or someone else would want to comment on that. [25:54] Luke McClanahan: I I I don't have the the full backstory on on site selection but you know again maybe that the project team could weigh in on that one. [26:01] Dallas Pearson: So I do know one other, but that it's outside my purview to really do it. Jake, you want to handle that? [26:09] Jake Inerbritson: Sure, I'll um you know I can address the the issue regarding other sites. Um, you know there have been conversations and many conversations, but one of the, you know, one of the big um decision points for us was cost. Um, 3M is giving literally giving us this land or is it a dollar? Okay, they are donating it to us and they are paying um most if not all the remediation costs. So um, you know a few other sites were considered, for example, uh next to LA Fitness, um, but it just wasn't a cost-effective you know and there were challenges there um logistically as well. Um, you know in setting the cost aside, this site from a logistical standpoint—and maybe Jim you can speak to this a little bit too—but seemed to be the best across the board. So um, you know the statement uh that other sites weren't considered isn't true, it's just I mean it it just seemed like this was the spot. So you know and it's a little bit unfortunate you know this is going to ha—this has to be built somewhere, and unfortunately the way Oakdale is laid out and built it's going to be close to homes no matter where it goes. [27:31] Chris Campbell: So um one question though, this is an industrial area to begin with and it always has been. It so—that has to be in consideration too so. [27:42] Jake Inerbritson: Yep, yep. I mean it's not you know we're we're not putting it in a Play Zone residential, um, we're not rezoning, it was actually an industrial area to begin with. [27:52] Chris Campbell: Yep, yep. Thanks for pointing that out. [27:53] Tom Willenbring: I have another question. How many people work there um um in the Public Works approximately? I'm just I'll I'll let Jim handle and I'm just wondering how do they feel about having this facility built on a contaminated site? I mean I know they're going to do cleanup but I know that would make me feel anxious myself wonder how they feel. [28:18] Jim Romanic: Sure. So currently we have about 30 staff at Public Works. Um, in the summer we'll go up to maybe 40 depending on how many seasonal staff we bring in. Um, we're projecting that we'll grow our our staff as the city continues to grow. Um, and I think we look at maybe maxing out around 50 people working out of that site in the summer. Um, yeah there's been a lot of discussion about the the site that we've had. I've been at Public Works a long time. Um, we've had a lot of discussion internally. Um, we've had representatives from the MPCA come in and meet with our staff. We've also brought in the city has hired our own environmental consultant, um, so they're going to also watch over the site to ensure that it's cleaned up and cleaned up to the standards of the MPCA, is also um cleaned to what our consultant would say it would meet the standards. The building will also have a um an active vapor mitigation system throughout the entire building. So that's a system that goes under the slab and it captures any of the vapors that are under the ground and it brings it up to the the roof top of the building, so it's not in inside where the employees are working. It's similar to a radon type system. Um, so that again is something that 3M is paying for um to have installed. So um, I I think that many of the issues with the contamination have been addressed. [30:30] Dallas Pearson: And your staff, they feel comfortable with with this move? I'm just curious. [30:35] Jim Romanic: For the most part, I would say there's still some concern you know and um but the building that we're in right now currently has plenty of uh health health risk concerns as well. So it's a I think it's going to be you know a big improvement and to know that we have that the systems in place um and the the cleanup will happen everything will be up to up the code and everything will be to today's standards instead of yes from a long time ago. [31:07] Dallas Pearson: Yep, I think the MPCA has some pretty stringent standards that'll be required to be met. Are those standards different? So you—for you're going to put a residential property in there, are there different standards if you were going to put a residential property versus an industrial? [31:21] Jim Romanic: There would be and I'm not an expert on that so I can't speak to what the standards the differences would be. But so currently the groundwater on the site is being monitored, um, there will be ongoing groundwater monitoring after the building is done as well in addition to the air quality monitoring. Thank you. [32:00] Chris Campbell: Do you have any information on the traffic study perhaps that could assuage of gentleman's concerns, or would that be part of the meeting that's going to happen later in January? [32:06] Jim Romanic: I I think we'd probably address that at the meeting later in January. I don't know that a formal traffic study has been done. Um, so typically when we go out uh and do like a snow removal operation we're sending on maybe 12 to 14 pieces of equipment so I don't think the traffic increase is going to be significant in the area. Um, you know a typical day like I say has around 30 staff that are on site. Um, we have a few um residents and salespeople and whatnot that stop in throughout the day that would be accessing the site off of uh the entrances on Granada Avenue so I don't think the the traffic will be noticeably different than it is currently. Thank you. [32:56] Jake Inerbritson: And we have a—I mean I would I would argue that we have a fairly similar condition in your current location. You've got fairly busy road, you've got some residents right across the street. Um, you we haven't received any noise complaints or anything that you're aware of, correct? [33:14] Jim Romanic: We do not receive any noise complaints from the residents across the street on Hadley but occasionally we'll get them from the townhouse is across the pond in the back and going to this site we won't have that. [33:28] Jake Inerbritson: Okay. [33:29] Dallas Pearson: Any other questions? Thank you very much. Thank you. Are there any other questions from from the public? Anyone else wish to come forward and make comment? I'll ask one last time is there anyone from the public who would wish to come forward and make any comment? I will now close the public hearing and we go forward and just further last minute comments from members of the commission. [34:10] Chris Campbell: So my only comment is I would like to see the fencing along Granada be opaque. Our second case tonight is a very similar condition—it's a more industrial use with a fence that you can see through and we're telling that applicant that's not acceptable. So primarily because it's it's the residences that we're trying to block. Yeah so I think you know all things being equal to me it seems like it's it would make sense to require just that little bit because I don't think the parking lot is fenced you know it seems like just the the area um this plan south... [35:01] Chris Campbell: Yeah, on the south side I would like to see that not for this... well yeah, plan south, this southeast corner. [35:08] Dallas Pearson: Okay, I drove by this morning or that this afternoon and there's a business on the north and a business on the south. Has no fencing whatsoever to cover the entryways to their to their business. Now granted they don't have a parking lot in front of it but it's not—it's not out of character for the everything else that's there already. So I I don't know that it's I don't know how to how to phrase if that's that that require much of a requirement in my mind even but it's not going to be that unattractive I don't think nor out of character with what's there. [35:45] Tom Willenbring: Yeah, based on what I'm looking at too it looks like most of the stuff that people would be viewing from the street are going to be blocked by the building anyways. You see you'll see the front of the building and the landscaping that's there and the parking lot, parking spaces for the uh visitors. But that's just an observation that I made when I drove by. It's not I don't think it would be out of character with what's there existing. [36:20] Tom Moli: My comment is out there no I'm the staff is here you I'm going to have to agree with Chris on a littleit this because there is that parking lot parking area to the east south of the building and the east that will be viewed from Granada itself and it's just you're looking at just a fence along Granada correct? [36:44] Chris Campbell: Not looking for any of the other portions of it. I'm asking for 120 ft. [36:49] Dallas Pearson: Yeah, I think there's a difference so between a parking lot and an auto yard that's storing cards because other—if we did every parking lot we'd have to surround Target and everybody else. [37:01] Chris Campbell: I'm not saying the parking lot, I'm saying this area right down here where they're they'll likely have lay down. They could do vehicle storage, they could put you know Bobcat—you just consider propose heavy duty know how it's going to be be used. [37:16] Dallas Pearson: Yeah yeah and I mean to your point it's all heavy duty duty pavement back there so... so yeah for a reason otherwise would have put graphs there. [37:25] Chris Campbell: Yep. [37:26] Dallas Pearson: Is that something I mean I'm not going to fall on my sword on it, I'm not going to make—is that something you feel feel should be added to the uh resolutions the requirements of the resolutions? [37:37] Chris Campbell: I mean unless the majority of us think that, I'm I'm comfortable with just kind of putting that out there and and letting staff make the the right decision or the appropriate decision. [37:50] Dallas Pearson: Okay, so borrowing a borrowing a motion on your part to put that such a caveat in there I guess we would then go to the motions. I'm looking for well yeah I'm looking for a motion to recommend the approval. [38:10] Tom Willenbring: So moved. [38:11] Chris Campbell: I'll second that. [38:13] Dallas Pearson: Motion to approve the resolution for the conditional use permit and site plan and and site yes. All those in favor? [38:20] Commissioners: Aye. [38:22] Dallas Pearson: All those opposed? Motion passes thank you very much. The next one is a public hearing on the Twin City Towing LLC 2741 and 2751 Geneva Avenue North conditional use permit amendment. Luke, your update. [38:39] Luke McClanahan: Yes, thank you. So as you mentioned that U this request is for technically it's two parcels: 2741 and 2751 Geneva. The business located there currently is Twin City's Towing. Zoning of the site is IO, industrial office, where automobile towing services is allowed as a conditional use. Recall at the October Planning Commission meeting, Twin Cities Towing requested a conditional use permit amendment to allow alternative fencing materials along the southern property line, so they wanted to utilize chain link fence instead of an opaque wooden fence. Recall that both staff and the Planning Commission recommended denial of that request. And following the October meeting, um, additional code compliance issues with the site were brought to the city's attention and the CUP amendment request, just again just for that fence, was withdrawn by the applicant at the recommendation of City staff. So the applicant has resubmitted a new conditional use permit amendment request uh to address the outstanding zoning issues which I'll go into detail. So little little bit of history on the site: so Twin Cities Towing they received their original use permit to operate the automobile towing service back in September 1985. The original approval was exclusively for well what is essentially the southern kind of triangle there where my cursor is including the building and the the parking there to the south. Um, it didn't include the area to the north or the area to the east. And uh the original permit also had a series of conditions and restrictions. So the original permit which is included in the packet that you have, uh there's a number of conditions. I'll just summarize some of the the key conditions that are related to the current compliance issues that we have. So one of the conditions is that an 8ft tall 100% opaque wooden fence with a 2ft overhang uh be maintained along the southern property line and also along part of the east property line. The second one here bit of a technicality but the original permit required the removal of a north access and had to really dig into the historic aerial photos but there was a couple axises serving that building or serving that southern parcel. That northern access was removed um back in the mid 80s. Another condition of that original permit was a limit on no more than 30 vehicles could be stored on site at a time. Uh, vehicles with leaking fluids had to be pumped or removed from the site entirely. And then another condition here is that a 20ft wide fire lane around the building had to be maintained at all times. So to resolve the outstanding issues, uh again the applicant is requesting to uh formally amend their use permit not just for the the southern parcel here but the 2751 Geneva Avenue parcel—again that's the the one to the north and to the east. So in total what we're talking about is about three and or 3.75 acres for this site. So that essentially they want to formally expand that use. Um, the applicant is also amenable to installing a 10ft tall 100% opaque wooden fence—so there would not be an overhang in this case—along the southern property line where vehicles are stored. The applicant is amenable to maintaining that 20ft wide fire lane around the building, and minor understanding is that they've already installed cones there to to delineate that area. And the applicant is also amenable to pumping and removing uh vehicles with leaking fluids, leaking hazardous fluids, and then the city would conduct periodic checks to ensure that that is in fact what's happening. In addition, City staff is recommending increasing the number of allowed vehicles stored on this property. Again the the original permit only allowed for 30 vehicles. City staff is comfortable with bumping that number up to 75, and that still accounts for maintaining a fire lane around the building. There should be sufficient room to store up to 75 vehicles there without getting too overcrowded. And staff finds that this conditional use permit amendment request meets the zoning review criteria provided that certain conditions are included in the approval and are upheld, and I'll go through those so with the resolution in your packet. Number one, a 10ft in height 100% opaque wooden fence shall be installed and maintained along the entire southern boundary of the site where vehicles are stored, and the applicant must obtain a fence permit through the city. Number two, expansion of the building property or use shall require approval through a site plan and conditional conditional use permit amendment. Number three, no more than 75 vehicles shall be stored outdoors at any given time. Number four, a clear fire lane of at least 20 feet in width shall be maintained at all times around the building for the use. And number five, vehicles with leaking fluids or other hazardous substances shall be pumped of hazardous substances or be removed totally from the site. The city of Oakdale reserves the right to conduct periodic inspections of the site for leaking fluids and hazardous substances associated with vehicle storage. So just to be clear, the conditions here in the resolution they have would replace the original permit from 1985. So just a reminder this is a public hearing the applicant is here in attendance um and if you have any questions I'd be happy to answer them thank you. [44:33] Dallas Pearson: Thank you. Anyone have any questions first? [44:40] Chris Campbell: I just clarifying on what you just said. So the CUP completely replaces the SU from the 80s? [44:50] Luke McClanahan: Yes. The conditions—the conditions are essentially um the ones that we have here tonight will be the ones going forward that we would enforce. Hence why some of them are repeated exactly. [45:04] Chris Campbell: Got it okay just happen to be the cleanest way that that we could think of to do. Perfect that's helpful. Any want have anything else? [45:12] Chris Campbell: Sorry yes I do have a couple. Um, do we have kind of standard fence requirements and and what I'm getting at is you know wood fencing requires maintenance over the long term. Um, a lot of the projects that I work on in my day job we use composite fencing. Is that something that if the applicant had wanted you wanted to use would we allow a composite fence in in this case? [45:34] Luke McClanahan: Because it's a CUP, I mean we and there's no specific criteria to uh that that's laid out in the ordinance. I I think there's a lot of discretion in terms of what we can and can can and cannot allow. Um, so I don't know if I guess your to your question but um yeah there's some discretion here as to what materials could be used but I I think we would look to some some other guidance from um the industrial zoning district requirements for you know screening of outside storage materials you know from from the view of residential properties and the Right-Way. [46:21] Chris Campbell: I guess my only concern with that is do we run into the you know we don't want to pigeon hole them too much so that 20 years down the line they're coming back and you know now we want to put a composite fence in because the fence... [46:34] Dallas Pearson: The wood fence is—if memory serves right though from the last meeting I believe they had discussed the composite ones and pro one of the issues was the weight and the soil that could be situation at that location is that the case? [46:48] Luke McClanahan: Too heavy. [46:49] Dallas Pearson: Okay. Do you have anything else? Does anyone have anything else? I remember I wasn't there a cable that went down the side of it, two sides, and that was an optical cable and something else? [47:04] Luke McClanahan: Your memories are better than mine. [47:06] Dallas Pearson: Yeah no nothing else for me okay. The one thing I have is what I had discussed with you earlier. If you look in the report from Twin Cities Transport and Recovery there's a comment in there and I I don't remember if you had it in your report but the current plan is to require TCT to use the north gate whenever possible and exclusively in evening hours. And I I believe that should be since the only thing I think will live on is this resolution at the end I really feel that should be in there as a point six. [47:43] Chris Campbell: Was going to have the same question. [47:44] Dallas Pearson: Okay because that is a a large a very large point on the audio and visual effects from the site to the neighbors. I'm comfortable with that. [48:00] Dallas Pearson: Anyone else? Perhaps yeah before we we get to that um deciding um maybe just open the public hearing get get the input from the applicant and anyone from the audience. Okay I will open the uh public hearing Twin Cities Towing LLC 2741 and 2751 Geneva Avenue North conditional use permit amendment. Uh, first anyone from from the company making the uh bid. [48:38] John Grindeland: John Grindeland, Twin Cities Transport and Recovery. Um, so just brought some notes with. Appreciate the back and forth the past couple months. Um, trying to do everything we can to keep things going. Um, I appreciate you brought up at point six here—so that's something we're meeting every week right now as a group on redoing the lot. So like when vehicles come in, where they'd be parked, when we know they're going to be coming and going. So using the north for that. Also having it so when trucks are backing in and unloading, lights are actually pointing the street and less of neighbors, that kind of thing. So trying to rework kind of how all that's going to work. So that would be uh also our senior staff and our new staff when to come in through our training system um including things like teaching low idle versus high idle. So it takes longer but it's quieter at least in evening hours. Um, so we have signs everywhere, we're training everybody over and over. It's not just here in Oakdale, we're using this for all of our sites. So um so this is a good good process to go through for us right um and making us all better what we're doing. So um overall we are addressing the noise so whatever you just decide it's going to be fine on our end either way. Um, so the idea is to be here for a long time. Um, I understand the concerns of the neighbors. Um, so once again this is here in Oakdale um and all of our sites. So um towing doesn't always have the the best light um so we're trying to change that. So um that's all I have. [50:11] Dallas Pearson: So since I was going from the fact that you had it in your document saying this is what we plan on doing that you would be amenable to having as a requirement? [50:20] John Grindeland: Yeah, I mean the less requirements the better um there's no doubt on that um we're going to be—we're doing that already in our plans. So um my only ask would be if we have a you know a rogue driver take the south gate and there's a complaint you know it's not on purpose we'll go right after him. But um so that would be my only worry if there was something very formal with that. Um, so my preference would be to to get to know the neighbors better. Um, I get I understand you don't know me very well um but that's usually how we try to operate um up to this point. [50:58] Chris Campbell: But can you just help me understand kind of you've got a vehicle on the hooker on the bed, how does it get into your lot like what's that look like? Um, so the truck pulls in where does he drop it how's he get in there how's he maneuver through that site? [51:11] John Grindeland: Yeah right now the the main gate historically was always the south gate. Um, so that's just historically where the office is—so when trucks come through you understand who's coming and going. Um, so the you know the building and the property set up for that better than the north. Um, so right now they come in and depending if it's a short-term or long-term would depend where it's going to be parked within the lot. So that's why we just reworking and then retraining everybody where to put these vehicles um anyway. So in this case they would come around and pick—if it was going to be a let's say an investigative hold for Oakdale Police right um and it's maybe it's a no touch those would usually go inside. But if it's a something that's just going to be you know wheel fell off and it's not movable it's going to be in a spot that's easy to load for us or whoever else is going to come get it. Uh, maybe it's someone was just arrested for drinking and driving the police called and said we need to get this out of the road um it runs and drives just it could be you know two cars back to back because they you can easily move them around when the public comes. So if it is completely wrecked vehicle though and you have to shake it off, that's where noise would come in, right? And that's where getting this set up to if there's going to be activity like that especially at night it should be on the north side. So those are the kinds of conversations that we're they're having weekly right now as far as just making that mandatory and then just training it throughout. And then also someone that's hired in two years from now they learn that with the materials as we go through so it's not just maybe going to happen just actually would happen. [53:11] Chris Campbell: So it's like everywhere else though just going to be someone that just doesn't care as much as you. That was helpful. I mean the reason I ask is I'm thinking you know well is there a way that you can pull a truck in they don't have to back up they just drop a vehicle they pull out and then you move the vehicle in the morning but how you've just described it you have circumstances where you can't touch the vehicle the vehicle doesn't operate things like that so it it makesense that you'll there are occasions where you need to back up to drop that vehicle. [53:45] John Grindeland: I can give you an example. Is it possible to pull the the map up again? So nothing's formalized yet but um so on the south property line an example one of the conversations is if we think that it was towed for a reason that it might be here for a long time that's a great place to put it. It's going to be quiet you drop it once it's going to be there either the during the hold period or if it's going to be a time period just following statutes that's going to come and then eventually go. If there's a better chance of it coming and going—maybe someone was just they were in jail for the night it's over get out and come—that's the kind of activity where keep that away because there's going to be more commotion going on. So um so that's just one example of of that. Any other questions? [54:33] Tom Willenbring: So as far as the T the fences concerned they have to get rid of the one they have and they're going to be putting a 10-foot uh fence now? [54:40] Luke McClanahan: Correct. In terms of the logistics of just making that a 10-foot opaque 100% opaque wooden fence, it's really you know how they are um they work with their fence company that that might be a full removal replacement it might be a retrofit but either way they're they're going to have to comply with a building code get a fence permit to do so. Um, it's going to be held to a certain standard. [55:04] John Grindeland: Okay and I'll be getting a copy of the permit when Able Fence pulls it time I promise you that so um I think one of the plans was to use the existing footings because they redid the whole thing. So it's—uh they were originally farther apart which is what knocked it over with the overhang so they have I think doubled up or more. Um, so hoping that the wood fence holds with the with the height and they should hoping either retrofit either way it's going to be on the outside and it would be they know the Cable Fence is well aware of these requirements right now so just waiting for the green light and they'll put it up. [55:40] Chris Campbell: And I know you've agreed to the wood fence but did you investigate you know other screening materials or anything that could go on the chain link? [55:48] John Grindeland: Did pulled it up um so acoustic fence on your recommendation so um pulled the numbers gave it to him had went that natural fence and um ultimately just to try to follow exactly what it said just left it at that and I mean it looked great either way I think it's going to be fine but um but yes absolutely did. That's I mean that was that night we were looking when as we were leaving um put in a formal request the next day they they got back to us within 24 hours so yeah so it looked looked good so it was medium spendy. Uh, but yeah still in favor of it but... [56:19] Dallas Pearson: Anything else You'd like to say? [56:20] John Grindeland: Nope um should be good appreciate it thank you. [56:23] Dallas Pearson: Thank you. Is public hearing if there's anyone from the public who wishes to come and make comments or observations please come forward. [56:36] Debbie Ramsey: Hello Debbie Ramsey 601 27th Street. So our house is directly across the railroad track looking right at the building. I'm really pleased to hear what has been put forth um in terms of both what the commission has and and planning has put forth as well as what the owner is saying they're doing. Um, I do have a question though in terms of when this is passed and they decide to put this fence in how long will it take for that to happen? And will during that time between now and the time that goes in I'm requesting that the all the cars that are parked on that south boundary line do not stay there because I have a complete view of what looks like a junkyard. And I know that Chairman Pearson has looked at this before I don't know if the rest of you have bothered to go and look at it the way it is right now. I don't want to see that. It will be wonderful when that fence goes in. Um, when you commented on something else with that fence the fence they have now you can see right through it and um I don't think that the residents there should have to see that. I don't think anyone of you would want that in your backyard when you're out on your deck trying to enjoy the the weather or whatever to have that as a um as a view and so I'd like to know when that fence would be installed. I would like those those um those vehicles not be there and be in view and then I would like to know when the requirements will begin because I have um a Google map that was printed out recently from the time that they they put in or were putting in the current fence and um there still are way too many vehicles there and who's going to enforce that they hold to that number of vehicles the 75 that is proposed? Because clearly the city has done nothing in that respect for a number of years maybe decades because it's well over that if you count the number of vehicles on this map it's already over 75. When do those get removed and who's going to see to it that that happens thank you. [59:29] Dallas Pearson: Thank you. They else who wishes to come forward to make comment? [59:35] Don Gangle: Don Gangle 6026 27th Street. I live right behind them and I've been there 48 years and from day one almost I'd say maybe one two years later we agreed to let them in there—or we didn't want them in there—and all these here things they were supposed to be bl by not one of them. I don't think over 30 cars all the time, the fence was falling down, never attempted to repair it on and on and on and we're supposed to be good neighbors work together you know so and then it looks just like a junkyard you know who who's going to take care of that? And I swear I I if I was a b man there's oil all the time from them some of them cars that are in there. Oh man, if their car ain't leaking I'm going to buy that car you know what I mean? And they lift them up with forklifts move them around you know who knows that they ain't damaging underneath there and S them back down I don't know that you know. And then all of a sudden they move out or something uh city of Oakdale got a piece of contaminated land you know. And if that starts on fire I'm out of my house they set them trees on fire and I would be gone and we got them fuel tanks across the maple imagine a fire breaking out there. I think they have other code violations in there but we won't take care of them right tonight but where do they store all that stuff where do they put it if they're supposed to drain it or take it out where does that go? I believe the cets in there were removed from the property so the disposal system is something that they they'll have to work out with. I never seen it and I've been there 48 years and I got a bird's eye view I'm like from here to here looking at that place and they didn't ever help us out by you know 30 you know. Last time we were at the meeting here what'd we count 90, 80 I believe and it's supposed to have what 30 35 that don't that up in my eyes. So it there's a mess in there and I don't think you people and I'll invite anyone of you guys to come to my house and look out my window. I mean the fence if they're going to put that there solid fence in yes that'll help and they've been taking care of a little bit but all these years they never had 10 ft from the building they're cleaning it up a little B now but I mean last couple winters or last few years I don't know how the Fire Department would ever get in there to put out a fire and one car starts another one car starts and it's bad. And I live there, I have people come to my house can I use your phone so I can get the you know what I mean? Would you answer your house at 10:00 at night the doorbell? It ain't as bad as before because they got cell phones now but someone comes to your house and say can I use your phone I got to call Twin City tow at middle of the night. Nights beep beep beep the horns go off, who do you call to shut them off? You know I'd like to sleep you know when your windows are closed locked up you can still hear it and I got hearing aids when I'm have the hearing aids off I can still hear. I don't think any of you guys would appreciate that. I mean if they worked with us from day one or day two or three they never applied by any of these you look all this here you know what they agreed on. I could see if they worked with us but they never worked with us. I mean 90 cars from 30 so they didn't care they just because they make money more cars they jam in there the more money they make they didn't care about me my neighbors. And when they put that air fence over there they never put any slats in there I had to fight for that you Al they never even gave us one thought our neighbors and we lost a couple of neighbors because they were tired of looking at that junk. I mean you got SUVs you got boats you got semi-trailers parked in there you got motor homes you know and then there's a few times I called the police you can look it on records they're breaking in there cutting the fence stealing cars out of there you know that's dangerous. And then they get their cars and they get them out of there and they put them on our street change license plates and do everything that's that's I don't need any of that right 48 years I lived there and I enjoyed live in Oakdale but when it was a lumber yard I don't know if you remember that it was open at eight close at five and then you remember was a roller skating ring I don't know if you guys ever remember that stuff you know but it was pretty quiet when it was the lumber yard the last one you know. And then if we can beat the train from stop blowing and whistle why can't we take care of this? And and they first started getting there the tow trucks were different they didn't have them backed up beepers now became a law and then when they have other troll trucks that come in there and pick up cars you know you got so many different p tracks coming in and picking them up you know they got a nice fleet of trucks I do have to say that they run a nice first class business but they don't care about us they care about the money I feel. [1:05:41] Dallas Pearson: I hope that the the changes that have been put in place in this document will help with that that's all I can actually say I promise. [1:05:49] Don Gangle: Well I hope so too but I mean who like like Dev said who's going to enforce this so every time there's uh 76 cars we got a call? Why don't they keep track to that they couldn't even tell us at the last meeting how many cars they had in there and they were supposed to have 30 you know what I'm saying? So who's going to help us out a little? I hate to call the police over that when they could be doing something better in our city of Oakdale you know. I hate to call say hey I got a guy out here changing plates and all that leaving all that on the street and I go pick it up in the morning. Do we need that to our Police Department to do that little stuff? No, they got bigger jobs and big bigger fires to put out than that. But if they would care about us I think they would take care of us a little bit but it ain't happening. So I'm scared that if we let them do this and then they'll do this and then they'll do this and then you know where's it stop? [1:06:56] Tom Moli: To ask the question um because I am relatively new, who does ensure there's compliance? I mean is that like... [1:07:03] Dallas Pearson: Well specifically on the uh hazardous substances that in the requirements the resolutions the city of Oakdale reserves the right to conduct periodic inspections of the site for leaking fluids so it's the compliance officers that will go in and look at their discretion. [1:07:23] Don Gangle: Excuse me I also believe on that deal said is that the our Oakdale Fire Department should have a key to get in there in case there is a fire. Do we do do they have one? [1:07:37] Dallas Pearson: I believe it says right in there if you read it they they likely have a nox box. [1:07:44] Don Gangle: What's that? [1:07:45] Dallas Pearson: It's it's called a nox box so it's a box on the front or and on the building the Fire Department has a—gentleman from the company is shaking his head you know that then for sure he's saying that yes there is. [1:07:56] Don Gangle: Okay because prior to this all starting now too before there was cell phones they would say oh we're going to put a phone outside side so they could use a coin deal you know what I mean that never happened none of this never happened. I'd love to work with them they're very nice company very successful and all that but they're all about this not for us or not nothing else. If I can haul 100 cars in there I'm throwing them in there. Why don't they what Maplewood can let them have a junkyard over there so if they to Maplewood's trucks cars put them in theirs not ours. [1:08:44] Dallas Pearson: If you have anything new for new sir uh beyond what you've said uh feel free to otherwise I would ask for we go on to the next person who might want to speak. [1:08:55] Don Gangle: Okay but I just hope you do something for us please I just ask you please do something for us our neighbors that we've been here all together for four I've been here 48 years. Thank you very much that's all I ask you please. [1:09:07] Dallas Pearson: Thank you. Is there anyone else who wishes to come forward to make comment? [1:09:10] Kenneth Kemp: My name is uh Kenneth Kemp, I live at 6035 27 Street. I live across street from Don. Don and I was at this original meeting in '85 and we was against it back in because we knew it was going to turn into a junkyard and guess what it did. I like to look back at this contract says 30 cars so what they did is bought that land north of their main building which was a a little car repair shop and so they could extend it without coming to the City Council and have the contract extend. Now they wanted to extend it to 75. That's not right. That to me is uh like if you break the law and you go to the court you want the court to change the law so you don't break the law. That's what they're doing. I say they should stick to the 30 cars, not the 75. The more cars you got there the more noise you got the more traffic and everything else um I just think uh by doing it the way you're doing it you're opening up other companies don't pay attention to a contract not in Oakdale. You want to break it go ahead and break it then you can come here and have it changed like they did thank you. [1:10:53] Dallas Pearson: Thank you. Anyone else who wishes to come forward to make comment? [1:11:01] John Grindeland: John Grindin again, Twin Cities. I just at least wanted to address the who's responsible at Twin Cities for the 75 cars, the fence timeline—so from the last meeting until now and going forward it'd be me. So that'd be the point of contact for the public for the city so I'd be the one you'd be work working with as far as if there's something going on. It's more than me that's there but I would be physically there right making sure um and we are definitely not perfect but we're going to be making sure that we're following this right so um and I get that it's not always going to be easy right especially as we get if we get busy and it gets close right we're going to have to make sure that we stay under. I understand that. Um, so the fence timeline would also be once there's a green light. I think we' emailed back and forth like should we do it now should we wait—the advice was to wait—so we would if whenever the green light is however that works through this process it would be that next day we would communicate with Able Fence and they would start the permit process and then whatever their timeline is. If they don't have to redo the footings and they just retrofit I would guess it would be very quick. I don't know the temperature they're willing to work in but for us it would be as soon as they could do it so just wanted to point that out. [1:12:15] Dallas Pearson: Safe to say that on the outside date you would like it in 2024? [1:12:19] John Grindeland: It's it's the intent is to have it happen this year 100%. It would be the day after or the day of that we got the green light that we would communicate with a fence. So and I would do an email... [1:12:31] Dallas Pearson: I would believe that that would be whenever the City Council passes the resolution. [1:12:35] John Grindeland: Got it. [1:12:36] Dallas Pearson: Uh back to my other my point 6 question uh perhaps work with Luke on what language that should be for trying you know how you're going to manage the the noise in the evenings and trying to keep it to the north of the the building. I would I would I personally feel more comfortable having something there uh not to be restrictive of you but to try and make sure that the noise is accommodating for the for the neighbors. [1:13:10] John Grindeland: Yep I understand it thank you. [1:13:16] Dallas Pearson: Any other questions from anybody else? I miss—I'll close the public hearing if no one wishes to come forward so I'll give you the last last call. [1:13:31] Don Gangle: So what's going to happen if they don't obey these rules? What what punishment are they going to get? They did it for the last how many years they've been in business they don't take out building permits the plan... [1:13:46] Dallas Pearson: The Planning Commission does not dole out punishments okay? I I we're we're we're strictly a land use operation uh complying with with the regulations of the city and the state and... [1:14:00] Don Gangle: Okay, I I apologize there but isn't it I have to take out building permits for everything I do in my house and when I put addition on my house I had a cement truck I had to take out two of them because they had two loads of cement coming I couldn't pass the one onto the other one but I had to do that. I had to apply that. I get a hot water heater I had to go get a building permit they don't even have to take one on... [1:14:26] Dallas Pearson: No, they did have to take one on. They did. They failed to and and they're coming back now to try and rectify that. [1:14:34] Don Gangle: Yes but if you look back I don't even know if they took out a building per when they added on to that fence at this point... [1:14:41] Dallas Pearson: I can't comment on... [1:14:43] Don Gangle: Okay but I'm saying you know they seem like they don't have to we'll do whatever they want to do and if they complain we'll just come and try to solve it or... [1:14:52] Dallas Pearson: You know the the person you would want to talk to was the person in the compliance office. Do we can you tell them who? [1:15:02] Luke McClanahan: Ken. [1:15:03] Dallas Pearson: Ken. Ken we—Code Enforcement Officer. [1:15:05] Don Gangle: Yeah because I did we did I come up here and talk to you right after that there and I talked to the code enforcement officer and I get miss mix answers. [1:15:13] Dallas Pearson: Well he—he was the one who you would is your point of contact for for complaints like that. [1:15:21] Don Gangle: Okay requesting that they conform to the requirements of this resolution. [1:15:25] Dallas Pearson: Okay. [1:15:26] Don Gangle: Because I got a lot for them. I think I I think I think otherwise I think we're in some danger otherwise if we go in there because they got a fuel tank in there I believe I believe they use it to fuel their trucks up do you have a fuel tank in there? Okay I believe that has to be I know in St Paul when I had to have one I had to have a barrier all the way around it you have to have a clean up site if you spill some fuel there I don't know if it's the same for city of Oakdale but I'm going to to find out that's a state thing. [1:15:58] Dallas Pearson: It's yeah State that's a state requirement. [1:16:01] Don Gangle: Requirement but St Paul he required that the Fire Department require to have a barrier all the way around it you know because you get people driving cars out of they hit that big fuel tank we're in a world to hurt so I I guess I got to ask him now who do I ask then? [1:16:21] Dallas Pearson: The Code Compliance Officer, city of Oakdale. [1:16:24] Don Gangle: Okay thank you. He should be able to contact any requirements from the state for that cuz I went to the Fire Department and I couldn't get in the building ever when I went over there which I can understand maybe they ain't there full-time but I think that should be taken care of too but may we might have different laws here I know in St Paul you had to have a lot it had to be so many feet from a building you had to have barriers all the way around it it had to be all this and this that's one big bomb ready to go off as someone hits it thank you very much. [1:17:11] Dallas Pearson: Okay anyone else who wishes to come forward to make comment? Seeing none I close the public hearing back. Any further questions from anyone here? [1:17:21] Chris Campbell: I—how did we land on 75 cars? Because it seems arbitrary right? [1:17:27] Luke McClanahan: That's no—that's a good question and and honestly I—30 cars you know that that was probably arbitrary too. Um, recognizing that you know they've expanded the site back over over 10 years ago they acquire that additional property. Um, taking a look—so what staff did was we took a look at how many vehicles appear to be on the site at during various um uh various years looking at aerial aerial photos and and accounting for drive lanes accounting for a fire 20 foot wide uh fire lane around the building. And 75 U is a bit of compromise in terms of you know how we debated it as in between staff members. Um, you could easily accommodate you know 100 plus cars on the site so 75 seems to be somewhere in the middle you know it's obviously more than 30 but not not nearly as as high as you know 100 where 100 plus vehicles... [1:18:24] Chris Campbell: So I mean the reason I bring it up is I I think you know I'm inclined to to not limit the number of vehicles that they can have so long as they meet the 20 foot fire lane and you know any setbacks and and all of those types of things because you as they mentioned earlier they may have 50 vehicles that sit there for weeks versus 75 vehicles that are coming and going every day. So by putting a number on it it doesn't it doesn't limit the the amount of tow traffic that you have in and out it doesn't you know it doesn't necessarily increase it or lower it—it's an appearance limitation right. [1:19:12] Dallas Pearson: But—but then again to to some of the comments who's going to enforce that? Who's going to go in and count cars? Certainly it's not something that you know the Police Department wants to do or code enforcement or anything like that if they can maintain if they can maintain the site and maintain you know some of these other requirements what do we care if it's 75 or 100? [1:19:35] Tom Willenbring: It's an ever-changing thing it's not something that happens I mean they don't—it's not a a set amount at every time it's something that's it depends on what happens in the day right so exactly right so and how can you enforce something like that? And and the property itself like you say could be upwards to over a hundred cars easily and still be in compliance of the the fire. So to put a to put a number is is kind of not not really feasible to to enforce or or even in their situation the people that own it you know they have the the room and it's never changing thing. [1:20:20] Chris Campbell: So I don't know it it number on it it comes down to an accommodation of for appearance not to look like a junkyard is the main re main rationale for a limit. [1:20:30] Tom Willenbring: Well that's the main problem here is is is the biggest problem seems to be the—that there's a lot of they don't like the the way it looks or and the sounds and then and but the the looks and they're getting they're trying to accommodate with that with the 10 foot. [1:20:47] Dallas Pearson: Exactly I mean and that takes time and and it's like anything in construction you're just going to have to bear with it until it finally gets done and and it'll it'll it will happen and they're they are very wanting to do this. They—they want to do this they you can see that the gentleman says as soon as this is going it's going to happen. So it's it seems to me that you know he's trying to do the right thing and we're trying to get this for everybody to be happy with the situation. And I know you're not ha—some people are never going to be happy but you you got to realize that this is an industrial piece of property it has been for a long long time it's always been industrial so there's different a guy lines for industrial properties versus people that live in in houses so they have—I mean they can work 24/7 you know that's—that's the way it works and you know that's what the codes are all about and when you move into a property you know people who have houses that are close to industrial they have to realize that that's the way it works you know it's it's not a perfect world you know. [1:22:05] Chris Campbell: I guess one other thing um you know there was some comments about well how do we how do we ensure compliance is I recall when the Doggy Daycare went in over by the nards they had a CUP for the um kind of outdoor runs and we required them to come back a year afterwards for kind of a compliance check or something like that didn't we idea isn't that sound familiar for the out good idea yeah Outdoor dog run area. [1:22:33] Luke McClanahan: So that is very different because that's—that's an interim use permit. [1:22:38] Chris Campbell: Ah okay. [1:22:39] Luke McClanahan: So this because it's an industrial zone property, automobile towing service is allowed as a conditional use permit. Sure we can't impose it the approval as an as an interim use permit if that makes sense. [1:22:54] Chris Campbell: Nope I that was my—a long time ago I didn't remember that it was in interim use so um okay all the comments I have then. [1:23:15] Dallas Pearson: Anyone else have any further comments? Comments uh for the motion should we make note of the point six discussion that between you and the owner to come up with the language for that or how would you want to play that? [1:23:30] Luke McClanahan: Well really I I—staff takes our cues from from the commission if that's something that you want to include I mean we can—we can word smith it right now um and I will refine it a little bit more before it goes to City Council. [1:23:44] Dallas Pearson: I would take from the uh the language from the uh you use the north gate whenever possible and exclusively in the evening hours that would be the—that's from the a a very a phrase from from the uh report that TCT gave us that they're acceptable to that so I would—I would just add that as point 6 just take the language directly as they—as they got at that last portion of that sentence. [1:24:14] Luke McClanahan: Which one which sentence should be at the beginning? [1:24:16] Dallas Pearson: It's at the beginning of this page at the bottom of uh 01 a from the letter from Twin City Recovery yep beginning "current plan is to" and it just include the language of "whenever possible and exclusively in the evening hours use the north gate" or "use the north gate whenever possible and exclusively in the evening hours." So no other requirements... [1:24:43] Luke McClanahan: I mean "evening hours" is debatable time because it... [1:24:47] Dallas Pearson: I was just going to say that Mr Chair if if that's something the Planning Commission wants to give a little bit more specific about what what hours you know would you identify there? [1:24:59] Luke McClanahan: What are the city quiet hours? So construction outdoor construction hours Monday through Friday yeah Monday through Friday 7:00 a.m. to 7:00 p.m. Saturdays is 9:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m and then no uh construction heavy construction activity on Sundays and holidays. [1:25:21] Chris Campbell: We have just like General 10 p.m. to 6:00 a.m. the one that comes closest in my mind is the limitations on dogs being outside barking that's that is basically a noise thing and I think it's 10 pm to 6:00 a.m. something like that but that's in the—it's in the code. [1:25:35] Dallas Pearson: So if we said "whenever possible and during the hours of 10 p.m. to 6: a.m. use the northern entrance exclusively." [1:25:48] Chris Campbell: Does that satisfy? [1:25:49] Luke McClanahan: But what does "whenever possible" mean? [1:25:52] Dallas Pearson: No we just replace the "whenever possible" to oh you oh not—not the "whenever possible" part that's no. If they have to come in through the South part for a particularly for a safety reason they have to come in through the south part "whenever possible" is if they do it excessively I suspect people will complain and Ken will have to go check it out. [1:26:15] Chris Campbell: All right I'm going to try my hand in a motion here. I am going to strike something so feel free to second me or make your own motion. Uh, so I'm going to motion to recommend approval of a conditionally use permanent amendment for Twin Cities Towing at 2741 and 2751 Geneva Avenue with uh the following changes: striking condition three, "no more than 75 vehicles shall be stored outdoors at any given time," and adding a condition that whenever possible and during the hours of 10: p.m. to 6:00 a.m. the northern entrance is used exclusively. [1:26:55] Tom Willenbring: So moved. [1:26:57] Dallas Pearson: I would have to voice an opinion. I'm—I'm not quite comfortable removing the 75 vehicles but we have a second I'm out voted I'm out voted we already have a second so we just need to vote on it then. All those in favor? [1:27:12] Tom Willenbring and Chris Campbell: Aye. Aye. [1:27:14] Dallas Pearson: All those opposed? I would say nay. Motion passes thank you very much. [1:27:20] Dallas Pearson: The next one... [1:27:21] Luke McClanahan: Okay yeah uh down to item seven other Planning and Development update. Yes so for the February 1st Planning Commission meeting there will be an appreciation dinner hosted by the City Council. Uh and that meeting or the dinner starts at 6:30 so I I believe that there was a flyer included with the U the announcement for this uh meeting tonight. But all a sudden a reminder and then yes there will be a February 1 Planning Commission meeting U we for sure have one item and that is a a study of two PUDs—so basically the area from Target to LA Fitness we're doing the city is is working with a consultant to uh study and see if any any updates any uh framework updates could be done to know boost that area. That's all I have thank you. [1:28:13] Dallas Pearson: Okay thank you Luke city council update. Council Member Inerbritson? [1:28:18] Jake Inerbritson: I got nothing but I'll take questions. [1:28:20] Chris Campbell: You got nothing did the new tax go into effect? [1:28:22] Jake Inerbritson: Yes uh yes um yes yes I think it was last year right? [1:28:29] Dallas Pearson: Yes yeah yeah and uh... [1:28:34] Chris Campbell: How observant I am cost—cost cost of Public Works have skyrocketed so. [1:28:44] Jake Inerbritson: Yeah but more on that later possibly so anything else maybe it could be used to beef up your compliance department? [1:28:54] Jake Inerbritson: Was I think it's yeah it's exclusively for Public Works and the police uh reconstruction projects. [1:29:05] Dallas Pearson: Are you going to continue to be our lean or? [1:29:08] Jake Inerbritson: Yeah good question yes I am you are. [1:29:10] Dallas Pearson: Yes I am. [1:29:12] Jake Inerbritson: All right so looking forward to that I fought tooth and nail but I going out with the best commission. [1:29:19] Dallas Pearson: Well Senior seniority senority matters. [1:29:21] Jake Inerbritson: Not really but that was my argument. [1:29:23] Dallas Pearson: So any else? Thank you very much Jake going yeah bust my chops okay anything else all right thank you thank you. [1:29:40] Chris Campbell: Move to adjourn. [1:29:41] Dallas Pearson: So move second. [1:29:43] Tom Willenbring: Second. [1:29:44] Dallas Pearson: All those in favor? [1:29:45] Commissioners: Aye. Aye. [1:29:47] Dallas Pearson: Any opposed? Meeting is closed.