let's do the Pledge of Allegiance please rise roll call please council member Cole is absent council member schweer here council member Wong here council member nordby here mayor mangy um can I get a motion to adopt the agenda please so move your honor so move council member sure second second council member Wong all those in favor say aye aye all right thank you all right first up presentation please uh presentation tonight is from the Silver Lake Improvement Association we have President Paul Nichols here to discuss welcome Paul welcome council members how's everyone doing good thanks for coming oops there we go all right uh yeah thanks for having me here today uh I'm Paul Nichol I'm the president of our Silver Lake Improvement Association and I'm uh here tonight to cover a few things first to recognize the city of North St Paul for the great partnership that we've had with our Silver Lake Improvement Association over the last several years secondly just to give an update on uh our main topic is going to be around the aquatic invasive species that we've seen a significant outbreak of a hybrid milfoil kind of an update on that and then our plans and then lastly get the support from you guys and also hopefully we can get a monetary contribution from City of North St Paul so uh we have this what we call the invasive hybrid milfoil It's a combination of Northern and Eurasian water mill foil and this uh I have a slide deck here I have a couple of my uh colleagues here as well John Mueller he's on the board of slia and then Ron young Bauer he's uh also a member of slaa and a resident on the lake right okay so SLA was formed in 2005 and I've been a part of it since around 2009 when I moved to the area and I actually grew up not too far from the lake so kind of great to be back here and so I've been involved with uh with this for several years and I'm happy to say that we've made a really nice Improvement in the quality of the lake we've brought up back a lot of the native plants and the water Clarity has gotten a lot better over the the last you know five to ten years you know some some years it gets a little bit worse and some years better but overall our trajectory is is good when it comes to the native plants and the clarity of the lake so over the last several years what we've been able to do is a little bit of a limited uh treatment of those invasive weeds the the weeds that we don't want to have around we can only treat up to 10 percent of the lake by you know by a rule by law and that costs around three thousand dollars annually to do that and the city of North St Paul has partnered with us for many years on paying approximately a thousand dollars per year of that three thousand dollars which has been a huge help the other funding has come from either the grants that we've received or from our association uh you know our dues and and pledges and donations from the members what we're planning to do here is a one-time treatment taking a different strategy because this hybrid milfoil has been extremely aggressive I don't know if you guys have seen the lake this year already or early in June here it looks pretty rough it's very weedy this hybrid milfoil has really started to grow already this year it's it's quite a bit worse than last year at this time so we had actually plans already to to do this full egg treatment last year but you know this even even more reason to do it this year with with what we're seeing so we think the um this this faux leg treatment will last us about three years whereas typically these uh 10 treatments they maybe last a year and then the next year we kind of have the same issue so they're effective for kind of that summer that fall but then the next year we see that build back up again we think this will last maybe uh two to three years to keep that full Lake full uh you know the weed free for the nine or for the invasive species I'm going to skip um some of this but well why do we need a full leg treatment um really because the this this milfoil is very aggressive the uh the 10 is just not an effective treatment and we want to you know use our funds for something that's a lot more effective uh which will be this floor Dome treatment for the the control of this AAS um the one downside of course is the expense uh it's a it's going to cost up to around twenty thousand dollars and what we're doing is we're trying to raise that money uh through multiple uh you know multiple means one is we have a fifteen hundred dollar Grant from the DNR two we've already gotten about three thousand dollars from slaa membership dues and contributions and then we're doing a a lot of additional um sponsorships and fundraising so just want to go off the list we we have uh North St Paul businesses uh Ron pitched this to the North St Paul businesses and uh we we got a lot of excitement from them so far we haven't received I don't think any any money yet but we have a lot of excitement um we have uh we're planning to go door to door to all the Lakeshore owners of course they have a big stake in this as well right um we've had wine tasting events in the past and we're going to have that again this year maybe we'll add one of those events on Friday nights for the city of North St Paul we have the history Cruisers and also one of our board members has a uh a concession stand there and we're going to be posting information there to try to get additional funding we have the max give back event I'll be passing one of those to to each of you guys that'll be on June 26th I believe um and they're going to donate 30 percent of all food and beverage sales to to this cause which is awesome my request is uh to receive five thousand dollars from the city of North St Paul and then I'm also going to go to the city of Maplewood in city of Oakdale and ask for they don't have as much you know property and they don't you know own as much of the lake for bet lack of better terminology so I'm going to ask them for twenty five hundred dollars each from both Maple and North or Maplewood and Oakdale um probably plan to do that here later in June and or into July um and then this is just kind of a an additional thing that we're trying to do just to get some uh you know notoriety for the small businesses especially that are willing to do the the sponsorship to try to help help their businesses as well and one other thing I was going to pull up here let me see if I can this is a little bit uh difficult to be but um maybe I'll skip that because I don't see that coming up but we have a we have a flyer as well I sent that to you guys a flyer that kind of has all this information on one slide and a little bit of a little bit of history and background in our plans so yeah that's what I had for today and any questions from from you guys Ron if I could oh yeah add a couple of things here yeah please approach I'm Ron youngbauer I'm wake resident here in town been here about five years um thank you for your time tonight so it's really a Grassroots operation that we have going here you can see the QR code there on the little um flyer and what that's all about is one of the young folks in the neighborhood said hey I'm not quite that young but he said you know when people are down at the at the um the car the auto show event he said you know if I'm walking he said at my age if I'm walking along and I'm getting a Pronto pup and a beer type of thing I see something like that I go oh that's a great cause flip you 10 bucks so we're going to work the community that way that's one one aspect another is when I did speak to the Business Association they asked me to come back and brief them on our progress each month and so as Paul says we don't have any anything in our hand today I had two different businesses tell me come back and see me I'll get you a thousand dollars from two different business owners so we got that in our pocket um we have a we have one of the ladies along the lake knows somebody from I'm not I haven't been here that long to know but there was an organization that raised money for uh lifeguards for a while along the at the beach and uh they evidently aren't doing that anymore and it's green something I apologize for not knowing the full name but Laura Greenlee oh okay okay I'm assuming that's it so they had 1800 bucks in their Kitty and they pledge that they're going to send that on over to us because they're they're about done with what their mission was so yeah I guess what I'm here is what we're here to say is we are building momentum we are building Steam whatever you guys uh as a city whatever we can do as a city would be awesome to help us we really feel we're going to get there I've also contacted uh both are the state reps Lily and Fisher I've contacted um state senator Zhang and uh gonna stay on them and see if there's anything they can do to get the DNR to maybe twist you know I looked I I asked Alexa the other night Alexa how much money does the state DNR have in their budget a staggering 1.1 billion dollars so we've sent them letters and said hey if there's anything more you guys can do uh and again the treatment uh is going to take place in the fall of 2023 and in the spring of 2024. so there's two two rounds of treatments yes that's right that twenty thousand correct okay and and then on your guys's that 10 that three thousand dollars is that do you I mean do you circle around the lake and then just keep going with that 10 coverage what happens is the contractor goes out with our representative Joyce along with the DNR and they go around the lake and check for the hot spots the trouble spots okay they identify these are the spots we're going to treat the DNR is the one that says it's 10 period end of story the DNR recognizes that we have um a big big problem on our hands here and they recognize that if we don't do something about this we could darn near walk across the bay next year on this stuff it's thick it's nasty it's coming fast um so uh from that perspective we really need to get after this so the DNR gave us this variance this one-year waiver to get this done uh the DNR has all kinds of backup information I'm sure Paul has it we won't bore you with it tonight but if anybody was really interested we could give you that it shows the lakes in the metro area that have had this that this treatment takes it from 60 70 percent coverage down to zero to one fantastic by doing this fall and spring program so that's that's why we're following that bar engineering happens to be involved along with the contract or along with the DNR so there's a lot of effort and energy that's gone into this there's a lot of expertise on our side so we really want to save the jewel the nurse what we call we've grind the coined at the jewel of North Saint Paul uh and really when you look at all your neighbors and constituents and friends that are out there on that Lake we can't afford to let that thing go so other questions other thoughts from anyone I have a quick question for you is is the milfoil what you're fighting every year for the most part that coming back or is there other Eurasian milfoilers now John's an expert because he's been here 68 years on the lake gotcha 's every year we surveyed the lake and hit the hotspot but with this hybrid it's sold the base of himself spread so quickly that it's a whole different animal it coversly and this Florida is a relatively new treatment for it they've done it in a couple of other Lakes and with their success around says I mean from almost a total coverage down to zero zero after a couple of years it has been at zero I don't think they have any really long-term results of how good it is but they know that some of the legs after two years so there's there's 30 some homes on the lake and in addition and so what that is is what we've been speaking to tonight is offshore treatment which is what our group slaya is involved in that's the middle of the lake if you will each individual homeowner has the option or ability to treat 50 wide by 50 deep in front of your spot for these different things which many of us already do at our own expense through the contractor I tell you that I spent 980 dollars last year out of my pocket and I intend to pledge half of that to this program this year because we're still treating for that and other things in front of our homes right now sure so uh we you know we're coming to you saying we've got skin in the game every one of us many of us and we're going to get up get out knock on doors I I suggest we get on a pontoon and go out and walk up to everybody's Dock and hand them a flyer and see what they'll do so because I think there's I think there's some folks even on the lake that kind of poo poo this and they're not I mean if any of you own that property you don't want to see your property go like the value take a big dive we don't own the property but I'll tell you what my kids like to swim there yeah so exactly exactly thank you so yes it's getting so thick you get okay kayak trying to cut or if you're standing up doing the water board sure the paddle wording yeah the paddle boarding uh okay it's so it's it's rough uh I tell you if I go putt around on my pontoon for 10 minutes I've got to drop it into reverse three times to knock that stuff off so I can keep going it's it's really getting rough so we've probably taken more time than we should have but no thank you that's helpful we wanted to make sure we answered any of your thoughts and questions so yeah maybe just uh a couple more uh notes here I don't remember if that was in the presentation I should have should have not skipped over it but I do too um this you know one one of the things that might be coming to mind is the safety of this you know Florida and I don't think I have it um in this presentation but this has been proven to be you know very safe for you know animals Wildlife people uh to to swim and to be around it's going to be in the lake at such a low dosage that it wouldn't have no effect at all in any anything no negative impacts um and let's see I think there was one other thing but uh oh yeah make sure that you guys all have the uh you go ahead and we're going to ask uh questions so um councilmember Wong has one yeah I'm just wondering and excuse me if I miss this but um what is the um source of of this year's particularly this year's you know substantial growth of MILF oil you want to stand up at the yeah people at home can hear and Hawk out in the lake probably a boat from some other lake or something but it's new to this Lake and the treatments for other milfoil don't work on this so it needs this special it's been spreading like wildfire over the last two years over the last two years that has really spread is it choking out the notch the the regulars I don't want to call that native thank you for the native plants okay at the top of the chain okay so Silver Lake we're also involved with the Watershed district and the Watershed district is all the bodies of water that run from here down to the Saint Croix River so our neighbors over at De montreville at Long Lake uh Lake Jane Olson what's going on here it's flowing there and they've been treated though uh de montreville is just now treating there's no treat okay I don't know about the others yet okay um but so what's happening here is going to certainly knock on their door whether a boat brings it in or not we'd also like to say that we'd like to figure there's already a sign over at the boat landing we'd like to update that signage make it better make it a current uh probably put something along the beach over in the area where people take their kayaks and drop in and really educate everyone about this we're going to Dorothy park because where they keep Dorothy Park where they keep the punts yes thank you we're gonna we're gonna go and put up Flyers at any business in this in lettuce it's gone I think there was talk of putting together one of those like barometers or thermometers like you see for United Way on the website and possibly have one here at City Hall to update the community on what we're doing so we really want to get the community involved in this it's not a problem to just Lake owners it's it's yeah great yes I appreciate I've been to some of the meetings and the energy you guys are bringing to this project is is great and it's not trying to you know kill weeds to have a you know a pool type of thing we're trying to keep the native which is your filter which is your built-in filter to keep the Lakes clean and if we can get rid of that we have like you said maybe three years so we've been doing a thousand dollars for the last you know every year so that would be you know a sustainable plus going forward with it so I really want to thank everybody because everybody uses that like get you go down there Memorial Weekend people swimming and it's it's definitely uh an asset to our community for everybody so thank you all for doing this it's really appreciate it do you have a question you okay make sure how are you over there bud all right are we good all right what do you want to do yep yep so four resolution is there amount yeah he said five five is good okay can I have a motion for a resolution for five thousand dollars for the Silver Lake fun someone with Jenner so move council member sweeters second second council member Wong all those in favor say aye aye aye thank you thank you appreciate everyone thank you appreciate it yeah we appreciate everything you're doing all right thanks you too appreciate it consent agenda thank you sir thank you Hunter uh consent agenda uh first up May 16 2023 Workshop minutes uh May 16 2023 regular meeting minutes General claims of one million 933 216 dollars HRA claims of fifteen thousand five hundred six dollars and 44 cents Eda claims of 891 dollars and five cents approved tobacco licenses liquor license renewals for 2024. application request for Newman's bar and grill for temporary extension of their on sale liquor license to include a portion of their paved parking area located at 2531 7th Avenue East on Saturday September 16 2023 new license approval on sale and Sunday liquor license for Southeast Asian Cuisine located at 2086 11th Avenue East new license approval on sale Sunday liquor license on sale wine license for Everett Ventures and Company DBA the den is located at 2544 11th Avenue East building permit report for April of 2023 resolution accepting donations special event permit for the Sentinel June 2nd to August 25th special event permit for Trenton Hawthorne cake hunger for North St Paul Food Shelf September 24th 2023 and resolution approving firefighter Declaration on Dual position pull anything out of these Maple h and Paul J and O and some of them are just comments or questions about process okay foreign all right move to accept the amended agenda oh I like it yeah so moved council members second second councilmer Wong all those in favor say aye aye aye thank you all right now the next is public hearing if you don't I miss it are we going to move on to those three right away open that's what I meant I'm sorry I meant to say it went up open to the public three minutes please for Content we have David Nelson welcome good to see you again you're probably going to take longer than three minutes but uh I've been the master naturalist for 17 or 18 years I've been working at Southward 18 or 19 years I was on the park Commission uh probably on the 19th year for about five years and they signed everybody a park I got Southwood our daughter saw of federal Wildlife biologists she comes through she's a dad you got to remove this this and this is all invasive so that's we started with the first thing we started with my wife and I we paid for the information center right on Holloway there that was out of our pocket and then we started cleaning out the garlic mustard the Buckthorn and Mike Keane he's been down there probably 13 or 14 times helping us he was we had giant Japanese knotweed if the that's what it's called but the nickname everybody calls it bamboo because kids were cutting them off and throwing them like Spears we cut that off and then another gentleman come in helped treat it and that which by accident we found out how to treat it with two uh four other Master Naturals down there working we just found it by accident the lady fell and knocked some plants over so rather than cut it the guy just treated where this where it split like bamboo when you split it it breaks out well that was killing it and we've been working on uh when I was younger I could put in nine hours pulling Buckthorn hauling it out at first we got the people around the area to come and help volunteer that was great everybody was down there pulling Buckthorn at first they complained we're pulling Buckthorn after we got it cleaned out that's the greatest thing we we can see the animals or the geese and everything in that water area and we can see across and when Keith satowski was here we had the urban Forester from the DNR come out and he walked the whole 28 Acres with us and he says this is a dying Forest it needs to be planted now and thanks to the city and that uh we put 25 plants in I watered them three years in a roll each one each week got five gallons of water and that I hauled it around and I sold my tractor so I had no way of watering them anymore but now the trees are dying they're falling in the pond they are falling here and there they're all over they're landing on the trees that we plant that the city planted and we're trying to build it back up to weigh what Henry Castle saw when he pulled into town he rode into town on a horse you had to stand up on the sterps in order to survey the land before he bought this whole area before it became North St Paul and what did you like the city what would you like to disable Okay the trees that are down I'm looking at a fire hazard you can have it just like uh in Canada and you've got houses right right next door you want the fire starter and go to the houses there's dead trees all over and branches the stuff needs to be cleaned out I'm I can't my wife and I go down there we pull invasive plants I can only work an hour a day now I can't work nine or ten hour days so we can um can we get the Public Works to take a look and see where we're at on that be able to remove there's a lot of it from the snow because I know we lost a lot of the trees because of that well a lot of them are are dead and they're leaning in the water and it's a fire hazard okay well we'll we'll get them out there yeah but I mean I appreciate everything you've done over the years for there for sure I know it's hard to do now as you get older so yeah 77 I can't work like I used to well we'll get on it and we'll take a look and for that thanks for bringing it up and well just one other thing sure just Turtles signs um I went to the DNR they donated the turtle signs to start with the agreement was when they come to here to the meeting that we were supposed to take him down in the fall and put them up in the spring when the people see them all winter long it's nothing new if you take them down put them up in the spring oh there's a new sign I resched good a turtle today is the size of a quarter that was out in the middle of uh Holloway and we had other turtles that were run over I took this one and put it by the water because it was just baking in the sun are they up right now with turtle signs yeah they're up now but oh take them down the fall they need to be taken okay on the fall all right we'll have note of that too thank you thank you for coming up appreciate it Mr small uh John small 2750 Chisholm Avenue just a note on Saturday's meeting of the PC Planning Commission you put Brandy in a heck of a position of trying to make a silk purse out of a Sal's ear you know when you have no facilities no mics no nothing it was down to when you wanted to make a comment on the uh the public hearing it was yeah I just have never experienced anything like that please give people who have to run these meetings some backing and have individuals on uh call or something to run mics to run what's supposed to be done when you have a meeting it was terrible thank you appreciate it thank you closing the public meeting Republic yeah hearing now public hearings no public hearings tonight oh that's right business action items and recommendations thank you honor first up is consideration of a resolution to approve the flood resiliency plan turn that over to we Rebecca from WSB has prepared the report good evening mayor city council I am trying to share my screen here I might need some of Brandy's expert to help me on this on this there we go foreign sorry about that um I was at the last Workshop meeting and went over this so I will not go as deep as I did last time but do more of a summary of what this is as you recall the city of North St Paul received grant funding from the Minnesota Pollution Control agency to study communities within the city that meet the vulnerable population criteria that's identified by the Census Bureau and it was to develop a climate resiliency and vulnerable population projection and flood prevention and mitigation strategies report and we have changed that term to be a flood resiliency plan to make it much easier but it was to provide a plan and framework for the city to use to go forward with determining projects to help with flooding throughout the community and to just get better information so this is a little bit of the background I won't bore you with all of this you can see this and we've talked about it what and why do we plan for floods so that we can be prepared this is the main reason for doing this plan why flooding is important we want to make sure infrastructure properties people are safe within our community and manage the stress be prepared for when flooding comes to the community so how do you plan we looked at the land use planning Maps we looked at storm sewer Maps studied everything modeled everything projected what areas would be impacted by flooding as I said at the workshop we worked very closely with Ramsey Washington Watershed District they were a great partner with us as we went through this again this helps to minimize damages in the future from flooding having this work done we also went over what homeowners can do to help with flooding here's a list of some of the things that Ramsey Washington Watershed District puts out to the communities they also have grants for people to do projects on their property as well as a lot of programs and things that can be done the plan itself we did a deep dive into the city's demographics which is how we determined where the focus areas are which are highlighted in this map by these yellow dots those areas are what were shown as being high and susceptible to flooding when the city experiences flood events there was a lot of Outreach as part of this we had a website it's still up the survey is down but people were able to complete a survey we had an open house in this room we had about 13 residents show up we mailed out about 100 postcards to try and create awareness I also gave a presentation at the business chamber event to try and again create some awareness behind this and get some support so again here's a summary of the open house homeowners did put red dots where they lived a lot of them are in different parts of the city than where the focus area is so that's something to address in the future as we're going through studying and assessing the needs within the community so the report has long-term and short-term initiatives and projects that can be done which are listed here and are in the report the other great benefit of having this now is the city has a much more up-to-date storm water model than it did and so that will be very beneficial as the city looks forward with CIP and doing improvements as well as having this plan sets the city up for additional grant funding especially if we partner if the city partners with the Watershed District it will weigh you'll get a lot more points having this work already done to be eligible for Grant funds next steps is this evening for the council to approve a resolution and that this will then get submitted to the Minnesota Pollution Control Agency for their final report they may have comments recommendations back but this was going to be a great resource for the city to have and with that I'm open to answering any questions you may have any one questions typically how long do these reports last for is this a 10-year report is this a lot of times I would look at these as 10-year reports especially with the changes in our precipitation patterns that we're experiencing the other thing with the Watershed district is they're constantly updating their model so I would recommend that the city follow along and update its model now that you have an updated one but then the plan as you work through these short and long term goals you'll need to re-establish new goals for going forward thank you any more questions all right move on to resolution then prove it please so moved your honor move council member Wong second second council member Norby all those in favor say hi hi thank you very much thank you appreciate your work thank you so next up is the consideration of a resolution to approve the Pud Amendment to the Lilly Redevelopment project and community development director Randy Howe will address that it works Hallelujah okay this item this presentation addresses the the next two agenda items the planning and development Amendment and the comprehensive plan Amendment so as you know Jim Laval of tjl development received PUD approval in October of 2022 to redevelop a three-quarter Acre Site at the corner of Helen Street and 7th Avenue back last fall the project was approved as a mixed-use building with 75 market rate Apartments seven live work units and 1575 square feet of commercial area the development team has been working over the past nine months to secure funding for the project but unfortunately High interest rates and high construction costs have caused the developer to have to adjust the design to make it a financially feasible project so the modified project requires a PUD Amendment as well as a comprehensive plan Amendment super city ordinance PUD amendments they must follow the same process for the initial PUD which includes a public hearing by the Planning Commission and review and approval by city council the public hearing was originally scheduled for June 1st however due to some unforeseen emergencies we were unable to have a quorum and in order to have that approval or review happen for this meeting it was rescheduled as a special meeting on Saturday June 3rd the developer and his architect have been adjusting the building design to reduce the project costs um that is one of the reasons for the Pud Amendment he's also been working to secure financing based on that current market situation that we're in the proposed PUD would modify the mix the use mix in the building by eliminating the dedicated commercial space and changing that instead to first floor work live work units that change increases the overall residential unit count from 82 to 84 and that is the trigger of the comp plan Amendment the plan also modifies the parking lot by reducing the total overall stall count from 93 to 91. that was actually a requirement of in the original approval resolution to make the um parking lot ADA Compliant if finally the building design was modified slightly as discussed in as we'll be discussed in the following slides collectively the proposed adjustments were deemed substantial Enough by planning staff to require an amendment to the approved PUD I went through a lot of different design slides with the Planning Commission um and they all agreed that they the development team has retained the initial uh design intent of the building so this is kind of a close-up of the first floor so the designs slightly modified in response to the elimination of the commercial space the mezzanine and the taller ceilings they're no longer necessary and thus the overall Building height has been reduced from about 58 feet down to 50 feet and like I said the Planning Commission reviewed the design modifications and they were they agreed that the intended aesthetic has been retained while value engineering the project so in the Planning Commission meeting the question was brought up about the eligibility of the Pud and per the ordinance the project must meet one of the following to be eligible it has to have a site with multiple buildings on it multiple principal buildings or it must be a multi-use structure with more than one principal use the building has proposed meets that eligibility requirement it will contain two principal uses the multi-family dwelling units and then the live work units I'll also note that the proposed project as amended remains consistent with the comprehensive plan and the intent of the downtown mixed-use district the project creates the high density residential that was envisioned per the comprehensive plan it will also help support commercial development activity and the existing vacant spaces downtown additionally in designing the building the developer and architect consulted with the community in a public forum on the aesthetic of the building and that was inspired by our communities manufacturing history and they also intend to integrate a historic mural in the western side of the building the project still meets three public benefit options per the ordinance it provides a mix of housing units and it's consistent with the city's overall housing goals as mentioned they increase density in the downtown will help generate demand for retail and Commercial opportunities the project provides for public Improvement such as sidewalk and other infrastructure associated with the 7th Avenue project and that that serves the area beyond the project boundaries and additionally the building will provide significant tax base by redeveloping an underutilized site in the corner of downtown there was also some discussion about the elimination of the dedicated commercial space so staff would like to provide some clarification on the function of the livework component of that building the the opportunity for retail will remain or commercial businesses rather those units located along 7th Avenue they will have the ability to hold businesses instead of seven of those there will be nine and they can have any number of retail or service uses with the exception of commercial food service so a restaurant wouldn't be allowed in those the ordinance does require a separate entrance for the business from the public Street which is proposed and a separate entrance for the dwelling and there is an internal hallway for those so the project complies with both of those requirements a note that it is staff's interpretation that those units are designed as live work they're designed to be flexible so if the market doesn't exist for a business perhaps then it could be fully residential the comprehensive plan Amendment as I mentioned is necessary because of the increase in the dwelling unit count at 84 units the site would exceed the density allowance for the site which is 110 units per acre so just two additional units jumps it up to 114 dwelling units per acre so the proposed comprehensive plan amendment is IT addresses the city overall the density bonus option is proposed to be a site-specific bonus of up to 130 units per acre the amendment will recognize that in certain situations and upon accepted to criteria the city may allow a density bonus of up to 130 units per acre depending on the site and depending on the on the project this modification will allow approval of the current project to go forward and any future site considered for density bonus would require another map Amendment and then it would also require extensive engineering analysis and scrutiny by by Planning Commission in city council so at the present time the amendment is being prepared specifically for this this project so as I mentioned the Planning Commission considered the proposal at the public hearing on June 3rd the unanimous unanimously recommended approval of the proposed PUD and comp plan Amendment overall staff finds the project to be to help fulfill the long-range goals for the Housing and Redevelopment while providing high quality project in the area that is currently underutilized so staff also recommends approval of the proposed PUD and Associated comp plan Amendment and with that I can take any questions anyone in the original open houses and public forums um I I'm not aware what was presented to the public do you believe that live work units were adequately described to the public in those public forums when they were giving comments about the buildings as a possibility the live work units were always considered a piece of the project it was part of the original approval there was always going to be seven of them and I recall um there was this discussion at that I don't remember when but I remember saying myself that this is considered to be a flexible use that if if there isn't a market potential for those then residential would be a flexibility that the city city would allow as part of the Pud approval what is the measurements for the lib work is it going to be built to suit that person so they might have a bigger up front or are they all the same as far as the the part of the work I think it would be helpful for the development team to answer that but the the conceptual layout has the individual units demarcated by different sizes I'm not entirely sure what the square footage is could you address that [Music] um and this is Jeffrey he's with MGD design okay I'm excited to be here hopefully we can um explain and detail what you're looking for live workspaces are varied in size okay um I think there's yeah there's uh we have three larger three larger four uh three medium and two smaller so they range they range in sizes from the biggest one was like 1200 yeah 800 to 1200 square feet total live and work yeah no um the commercial space was a big deal on my end when you when it's a live work space is it specific so when she says specifically sorry Brandy indicates that it's specifically you cannot have restaurants in there um that's essentially which can have what what can you have can you have a bakery can you have a coffee shop can you have um a step below a full service restaurant um by code I'm looking to see what the code says to defer I'm sorry I don't know that thank you the code says commercial food service requiring a license would not be allowed so if you're serving anything really anything you have to have a license service that I interpret that to be restaurant um anything food related packaged food would be acceptable like a coffee shop that would have packaged sandwiches and I think that would be up for interpretation um well anyway I just with some restaurant history I presume that you could have a coffee shop they would have a bakery to be your delivery person for those but I'm not cold so I I don't work for food I'm I don't do the compliance so just off the cuff here I would say a restaurant no a corner shop selling pre-packaged food where nothing is being prepared on site is probably okay councilmember schwier what qualifies as a restaurant actually gets pretty granular at times on some of this in terms of how the food is served how it's packaged things like that and even if it isn't look like your traditional restaurant that you'd sit down and order food at it may still need a restaurant license so I mean it it's almost a it's a very hard question to answer right now without knowing exactly what it's going to be for sale okay hmm because Brandy as I understand it it's the licensure that trips the the requirement did it say if it's a licensed the languages I recall it being stated is commercial food service with a business license or requiring a business license so we have three council members that are brand new since this project started so we don't know what the back end what happened to get us to the point we're in now as far as you know just kind of understanding the the commercial part of it I know when I was out doing uh campaigning you know it was a big thing of having you know buildings downtown that that do have some kind of a commercial you know as far as having restaurants and things and then living above it so let's just give a little more contact so how we where we started and how we landed that would be awesome appreciate that yeah um I thought we did with the city's assistance I mean there's been a lot of community participation that was proposed what was approved we had Jeff and his team went with this historian groups and tweeted it was really it was a great path to where we landed and then we went from that to financing and construction and all that fun stuff um and in between what I did is I engaged with three different uh retail commercial real estate firms that specialize in retail real estate to help me with this retail space and what we do with that what's the best way to go with it um and I don't mean to be negative to the community at all but two of them said you shouldn't do it and the third said why would the city want it if they're going to cannibalize the possibility of these vacant storefronts to get rejuvenated again and then the third component of that just from The Brokerage community is you know we'll have to charge 25 to 30 a foot your neighbors are going to charge 15 bucks a foot I don't know the viability of it so there's that dialogue right and then we went to any community um we went on to five banks Sunrise Bank It's A lender that was most aggressive and the other Banks were really like didn't want to lend us the money their underwriting teams said we're not going to give you credit for that retail uh part of the building on an income stream which equates to a value loss of about eight to nine hundred thousand dollars and then coupled with the construction costs that have increased over since we started we made different changes to the building to make it more financially feasible that's how we landed where where we started where we landed so you that eight foot you just pretty much took the two-story first level and dropped it to one story first level correct that's how you got your eight feet down that's about the million and a half dollars to do that right for the live work it's eight foot I don't even know what we got in here all the ceilings will still be it's about 12 is that yeah the Sweden's dwelling units upstairs two through four will be nine feet and downstairs they're 12 feet to the underside of the Precast oh good so it still has a little bit more space on the first level hopefully that was short but foreign do you mind if I speak a little bit about meeting with the Historic Society so the first thing we did was we sat down with a Historic Society and we did a field trip over there and uh we went and we looked through a ton of pictures of the old buildings in town and we settled on a look from one of the buildings where they were building uh pianos and or organs which then in fact turned into uh downhill skis and so that one of those buildings is what this building looks like and it's a it's a fantastic interpretation of that um this the the brown brick facades of these buildings right here take elements off of that design the the Limestone base the brick the arched Windows the cornice work and things like that and then we coupled that with other industrial features that you have in town here and we came up with more of an industrial feel for the corner which has the uh the very pointed deck and outdoor patios that are pointing right at the corner of Helen and seventh so we're really proud of this design as you wrap around to the back side we've Incorporated some like brandy had said we incorporated some historic uh photographs into the glass of that of the building and there's a because sepla was a trolley line and so we have a historic uh picture that is 12 feet tall of a trolley in the back right on the corner of sepula and Helen so so we're very excited with the design as far as the the live work is concerned I'm I'm very passionate about this because those are the spaces that I needed when I started my firm I started my Architecture Firm it was just me and another guy in my the basement of my house and if we had something like this these are really incubator spaces that are going to grow businesses my business now 30 people and we outgrew my house very quickly and now we take up 4 500 square feet in in Saint Paul but these these spaces right here are going to be the incubators that are going to populate the rest of Main Street as they outgrow these smaller spaces so I'm really think I really believe in this concept and I think this is a good space for you guys to grow businesses and provide opportunities for young people in your community to start businesses right here and then they can grow out into the bigger spaces that need to be populated in downtown so it could be like a small Jeweler it could be real estate professional it could be an attorney it could be yeah an accountant starting out many different types of uses that they're yeah anybody 20 out of college and I'm going to start something new you know what someone could be selling art would be a lot of creative things that drives exactly anybody who's dumb enough to start their own business one right here you know is it and just think that they can do it better than the last time and uh and so I I would really encourage you guys to think about that those live work units I think that's a really neat idea I think the building is beautiful you couldn't have made it nicer I think the only thing is is that retail element that we've been talking to people about and that was kind of people well okay we can have people downtown as long as there's a retail part of it so right that is where where it becomes us trying to just figure out how that works with with everybody because we really we didn't have much time to absorb this as far as the public with this so it there's some concern that was that was coming about with it so um so live work and necessarily don't have to live there they can just have the front part and then have it as the lounge or you know a kitchen area for themselves with their bathrooms in the back of their store exactly it's not you know I think I think of uh Grand Avenue in St Paul where you have jewelry shops bridal shops you have ice cream shops you have dessert shops you know right boom boom boom and they're all in these old homes that are really incubators they're very similar to this concept here this is just better because it's right on the main street with a with a a pylon sign or a little blade sign out there that says I've hung my shingle so there's convenient parking people come forward it's brilliant yeah I think I really I don't I don't see us losing retail I see us having more retail here and they're just going to be smaller and they're going to be incubators and you're going to grow businesses so um I saw the beautiful building over on Selby you guys did thank you for the invitation again is there any retail or what is the main level of that building on this I'll be it is it shops I can't remember is there just all living they're building we just finished a building I think if you're a compliment it's um address open for first residence in April 27th it's a five-story building that's again 91 dwelling units you drive into the building off facility and it's a hidden parking garage behind it and the front of house is just from a house dedicated to the apartments there's a fitness on one end okay different seating no fireplaces and stuff a management office a package room yeah mailboxes okay next to that is there are mixed-use buildings right next to that a three-story building that's got a little bit of retail and another three-story building right next to retail yeah and you're not changing the patio at all in our building the one you're talking about now that's still the outdoor is nothing's changing there we went through several red we went through and we agreed and what we landed is this building footprint is the same footprint that we recently before last fall so the part underground garage is the same the second floor amenity deck which is going to be a great deck we're able to keep that in the top floor in the top floor amenity and there's a second floor Club room as well yep yeah a little bit um and then the retail space we're talking about now and again I would just like to comment um compliment you guys it is a beautiful building um I don't think any of us have um any concerns about how it looks or um it is beautiful and I believe I my sticking point again is the commercial um for the renting of the live work units is there any sort of business permit required to rent these units or if if you felt the building and you have people that want to rent these to live in without a business you would rent to them correct that would be the intention yeah we would do our best to attract market we've got a great marketing team great leasing team to Target and and bring activity as much activity to those dwelling units on first floor to live work units as a commercial use and I think we'll do a good job I can't obviously sit here and promise to that you know all of them are going to be live work or um but we will do our best to Market it to that Target right is there a time frame that you're going to look at that I mean is there you know so much time there's it's right now we're at a really great time um credit committee for Sunrise Bank is tomorrow morning um the appraisal came back low because of the um some of the stuff Michaela will talk about tonight but the appraisal needs to get redone we're hoping to close and financing this month and start ripping stuff down in July the contractor Bauer design build is 13 14 months we usually start hard marketing about a year before the building is delivered so we'll start marketing in the fall signage on site and all that stuff um we'll start right away but all that that Media stuff web stuff usually about a year old before the building opens and so you don't have any renters that first year but then you have people that would like to go in soon after that you can turn it right back around into a space rentable space not livable space am I not following this right you look at me like so the biggest concern on I believe everyone's Forefront was this commercial space that draws in and attracts our city right now and if we're turning into a live workspace the biggest I guess my biggest thing is I'd like to see stories down there some something that attracts people to come in it's we just we just opened a candy store recently and there are so many people that are like this is amazing we want people like that to come down and say oh my gosh I can't believe there's this new ice cream store which now quite honestly I don't think you can have one because of the commercial space being removed but um we want the excitement drawn in and that's where for me it's it's hard it's a gorgeous building it's that space holds pretty tight to me so if you don't have renters right away and you're going to want to turn it into housing then are you able to flip that if you had renters or is that just not going to happen okay represented back to uh whatever particular use that you're here oh yeah of course yeah is there any way to rent to and combine them or is that not feasible as far as the way the construction I mean it's all on timing I mean if the two units right next to each other yeah somebody decides you know what I'm all growing I don't want to leave I want to be able to do that you'd be able to retrofit yeah of course yeah um for example if you have a renter for living and a someone a tenant someone who's looking for storefront how do you make those decisions say that's every single you know ever all nine of them if you had if you had competing competing applications for those spaces um you want to answer that or you want me to he's thinking applications yeah I I these These are Street Frontage units so the typical renter is going to want to be higher up in the building I believe that the fourth floor will rent first and it'll probably rent going down maybe the second floor would rent second closes closest to the uh to the amenity space uh the the street Frontage ones will probably rent last because they're Street Frontage but they're and they're they're basically you know they're look like right retail so so I think that would attract the retail people and if we had competing proposals I agree with your comments we want a vibrant a streetscape we want to vibrancy to the to the whole uh Seventh Avenue Corridor and driving that vibrancy would be active youth so if there's any inclination that we're going to get an active user they're going to certainly take a preference um from a leasing perspective again we can't discriminate you know how there's fair housing practices and things you can't you can't discriminate that way but we can certainly lead um lead and preferences and get those active uses downstairs without diminishing upstairs too but in marketing too how you Market those spaces I mean we're not going to Market those spaces to a young family with children we're going to market the spaces as more just hoping that would be last and be able to you know fill up and then at the very end work on the lower level so we can get a chance to get businesses in there we prefer the work over the live as far as that area right but these These are specific uses here these are these are not just your run of the mill Jeff going to get an apartment these are these are people that are marketed to people that have have businesses or want to start a business so and there's one other thing too that just occurred to me the way the building gets built is you start and you go up top down it doesn't so everything that's coming down in the building so we'll have a whole bunch more time the last thing that's going to be finished in here is like the front amenity space in these front yeah whatever happens with this storefront yeah so that'll give us many more months correct to Market that and to a more retail flavor yeah so if we make it if it's commercial then that changes how you build it is that well if there's different rules so I mean if you just say we have two at the end live you know the live work just combine those two and just make it commercial but then it becomes a whole different for you well yes and no I mean I mean all the spaces are going to be separately metered with their own electrical panel the spaces would be metered with their own gas is applicable right um but if you have the one at the end that specialty commercial spaces are going to require retail spaces if it's if it's a larger restaurant they're going to have venting and shaft requirements that go through the building yep in this particular building I think we may have to sidewall those kind of things we could um so yes and no I mean you know on a retail space you're gonna if you could leave the big space at the end yep sure right but we have we have parking underground so it's easy to do that it'll be right much easier to do that there than it would be but if you leave the instead of going nine go eight and have the one that's closest to sup you know to uh Helen as a a bigger space for a more substantial tenant Ellen or you know towards the end towards the post office yeah where your retail space was going to be the other side where your retail space was going to be make that a bigger so we can actually get something that's a little bit more substantial still keep your ceiling maybe to the height but let's make it double the ceiling is the ceiling exactly well you lowered it now as far as from the original one so we dropped today a feet so but have a little bit more of an area for to have somebody that's not going to start and leave right away I mean maybe a little bit of a bigger business to be able to take over that end Suite bigger than you have your other seven that are that are your normal regular size gives us an opportunity or something yeah along those lines I'm thinking maybe we could so over here yeah for me not to lose the amount of value and create more Equity Gap more Equity Gap Gap with Sunrise banks I have to show them that that that's going to generate income which means I'm at the show them an active use or right now right now is presented to you as two residential dwelling units on that or that retail node is okay but based on timing if we truly Market that space as retail space true retail space restaurant space something along what you're asking for a period of time a definite period of time we'll say a year or something like that we will not build that space out as residential dwelling units during that time frame I'll hire a third party it'd either be jll um it'll be uh CBRE or Upland Real Estate Group I'll hire a broker will have signage we'll start doing it right away we'll put signage out on sites there'll be web presence we'll mark it as retail space but if it doesn't come to fruition within a year can we still do the two dwelling units my mind I think that's fair I mean on the middle of the road and it is because it's you know you have to make money we we're trying to get you know that but we have to I think it's a fair as long as you're willing to market the hell out of it I will make sure who I hire does did you provide it I'm going to hire those three groups are the best retail groups in town okay would you be willing to provide updates to us okay one email or you want us to come in and I'll bring the brokers in and we can tell you what's going on we we I've done several retail buildings as simple as a monthly report or bi-weekly report here's through the email blast one two or here's whatever here's all the people we sent it to here's the responses oh it's just track every deal just like that perfect so we can we'd be happy to do that well 100 disclose who we've talked to what the responses are what the answer it's our Etc we can do it as an alternate and draw it up as an alternate to me that's fair it gives you time and you know if the market doesn't dictate it then you have an option but hopefully we can get it in there because literally if if I go to sunrise tomorrow or tonight and tell them that I need to have that as retail space what so what I'm I'll play a little game I'm not going to tell them yep right but if I can replace that income I'm not going to get banged for another eight nine hundred thousand dollars within with their Equity because that's what it'll take that's we've got all the all the equity right now has we're at a minimum return if I have to bring more equity and that return goes down and something that will probably go away I understand that no I I get I get the exercise we're going through my my concern is this happens every time we bump up against deadlines and things like that is if we if we've come to an agreement that everyone's comfortable with you can live with the the year it gives you guys the opportunity um I was just trying to scroll through the documents to make sure everything's reflective in that um I'm not sure quite there on this um so I guess you know depending where the council shakes out on approval on that we may have to modify some of the documents a touch um but I I think we can be as simple as being in a resolution yeah that's what I was thinking is that we would make a motion to modify or approve the resolution as modified with this yeah I'm just saying as as we sit here right now it's not Randy correct me if I'm wrong but I don't see it drafted consistent with what's been compromised right now no this is a new idea that would need to be yeah included so the approval could happen tonight we'd you know amend the resolution and authorize the mayor to execute it but the you'd have to decide whether you want the condition is somewhat unique this will start out for a year Market come back do whatever so if you want to see the actual language of the resolution you could authorize it tonight and we bring it back to you for approval or staff drafts it and just you guys authorize the mayor to execute it after that they had want some direction on that um I I'm not I'm not a big fan of in my Lane of things of kind of drafting these things on the fly right now I'd like to sit down and take a look at it but you can either bring it back to you or you can authorize the mayor's signature based on the revised document but conceptually I understand what's being proposed I'm fine yeah I've been here just as much as everybody else that's been here so you kind of got an idea well no I've I haven't been intimately involved in the project but I know Brandy's been working on it and I've seen some of the final documents so I I get it okay I think to my mind that's that's fair we're gonna hit it hard and do what we can do anybody else have any concerns yeah I I guess my concern is um one year I'm wondering if that may be just a hair too short because the economy is a little bit unsure um unless there's a way we can say We'll really try to at least fill 25 of those you know with commercial within two years or something whereas the other ones um we would still would like to have that advertised as commercial but maybe after one year then that that component would be eligible to be switched over to living does that make sense um so let me just so the the previous plan that was approved by the city council had 1575 square feet of retail space that is now two dwelling units so we're going to Market that space for a period of one year and and then you've asked for an extension on that but then you also referenced the other dwelling units as well the other units on the first floor is that correct the live work unit I don't know that I can agree to that because our lender is going to require even more equity I need to I need to show them I have land use approvals secured for what Financial performers they're looking at and if I come back to them and I say I say that this whole first floor is we mark it as retail for a period of two years my financing is going to go away so I'm sorry I um nope that's fair good that's why we're asking questions yeah yeah I'd be happy to but I just um uh we're at a uh right now one of the metrics that you need to there's a debt Road debt coverage ratio measurement and the term sheep in the bank is a minimum of 120 our financial performer right now is 1.25 as I'll tell you this okay yeah um I I trust them to do their best intention and Market this towards commercial like we've asked hypothetically if that fails are we doing a disservice to the other residents down there if they have empty first floor units do we have to allow them to turn them into residential areas is this setting a precedent for her I mean this is our Historic downtown um is this setting a precedent or something that we need to be concerned about you know let's hypothetically you know I don't want any business to go to but if one of our current businesses goes out um and those like say that they put every effort into it just didn't work they're now residential units on the first floor do we or are we do we have to let the other ones change to a live work unit or a residential unit on the first floor I can take a crack at that so the rather straightforward and simple answer is no it does not set a precedent at least in my opinion um I think the analysis however that you're walking through is an important one because one of the tenants of government is consistency of actions and treating people and folks in similarly situated situations the same there's always ways to differentiate and distinguish and say that was then this is now things are different with that uh things of that nature so I don't I don't think it's presidential but to your point if you have a vision of first floor buildings on that street looking a certain way you know there's the creep Factor if you allowed in one what about the other things of that nature and so it's the proper thing to analyze uh and then get yourself comfortable with um you know the developers come to you and said here's we're we're the initial plan was to do that we're still interested in doing it but we're getting feedback on market conditions um what you know the next project that comes down the pipeline what the market conditions are in three years is anyone's bet I'm not good at forecasting that um so you're not you're not bound by this decision forevermore but certainly if if someone came in with a new application and saw what was being built here and what it looked like it's a fair question to say I'd like what they've got um and you need to be able to discuss that you know intelligently and say why yes to this and no to another that makes sense and I even called talked to the one of the owners at the Sentinel building just to kind of discuss with them where we're at with things and he loved the look of the building I think it's going to be a nice nice addition to Downtown North St Paul Commercial he went through the same thing you did it went down to I think he's at 4 800 now where Max is but just trying to you know jockey that it's always harder to get commercial in there than it is of course the residential part of it but uh you know he thinks it's a good project but you'd like to still see something as long as you guys give your best effort and try to do it we can't force anybody to move in there but we want to give people an opportunity to be able to because we went from that size building to that one corner live work I think it's a great I hope we get people that are going to start small businesses because we need more and more so we're looking forward to that part of it but for me if you're you know if we're willing you have a great project we're we're together we're locked arm and arm you own the property and we want a beautiful downtown so you know we're at the dance we got to dance together so that's what we're trying to do that's why we're asking you is what you can do and I appreciate you bringing that up and you know being able to do that because we want this partnership to work we want the best downtown and we're together so moving forward I I personally would would feel comfortable with the year really trying to market the heck out of that and get something bigger in there the rest of my colleagues here and the council do you have any idea clarified so it's one year um for those two units that were added and then the other spaces would also be advertised for commercial initially lib work yeah it's gonna be more of a workspace retail advertise something that sure not just in Residence right that's right you can sell something differently okay yeah I just wanted to make sure it wasn't exclusively just those two units that were going to be advertised like that but the duration of time it is right yeah I have a question for the Future Let's just look out 10 years from now because more rooftops in neighborhoods creates more retail so in the future if more retail is needed in downtown how easy or difficult would it be to turn some of these other live Works into commercial is it as simple as a building permit or is it more of a is it more of a at come in and ask ask for an application okay because you know my experience is the the more housing you have in downtown areas the more retail you will get so we're a little bit chicken in the egg here we're trying to get the housing here so we get more retail But first you need the housing and we're doing it the right way because like you said instead of building and it will come we got them now we're going to build it exactly yeah and we do have some spots in downtown we have a vacant lot we have some older places we have a few Lots so we do have some room to grow as far as the different businesses as well so more people will be more Shops going up and down the street because that you know I've built my entire career on this concept of more housing denser providing more retail experiences and walkable communities and that's exactly what you guys are doing here and so that's That's the basis of the question yep that's a great question I mean I like I said I I will hopefully we'll be able to get all the lip work and the retail and maybe down the line they'll say you know what we're growing we want to take the one next door and start building out that happens in in any kind of uh building complex you know people take over other Suites all the time okay as long as that's air we'll be able to do that anything else this is one comment um for us says Council and and you know you all as partners too is I think it's going to be really important for us um to engage the Eda on this um this is something that is really um within their purview um to be able to support um and so I I would really be much more comfortable if we had their support as well um with um you know whether that be providing incentives to help people move retail in there or something I think that would help us more than or you know it's we're going to get to our goal we're leveraging our resources collectively yes um and so program that would be awesome so I yeah great I hope we can make that a priority yep more than happy to bring that up oh yeah I'm good um I I guess I the the lack of commercial space was kind of a craw for all of us and I understand they put a lot of work and a lot of effort I have some concerns about a bottom of the ninth change of strategy you know we're hashing something out in 10 minutes um I I understand they have deadlines I understand they put a lot of money and resources in to this I'm I'm just slightly concerned um and it has nothing to do with their intentions or buildings absolutely beautiful um I'm just really concerned about this being a you know 15-minute process um for this big of a change but we're kind of we're back up to where we were before we started all this we have 1500 um feet of retail we're going to market the heck out of it for a year so I think we're kind of back up to where we were if I'm not mistake building's a little lower but that's a so we're kind of staying the net as far as where we were with retail for that and my understanding is there's going to be some and there will have to be some changes into the agreement if what we land on is what's the compromise is being proposed yeah we're gonna have to change slightly modify what's in front of you but I think what I'm hearing is you need the approvals by the end of the month is that correct uh we'd like to secure the land use approvals this evening I understand that um it will only help uh navigate credit committees appraisals and all the other things that need to get redone so we can close this month so there's there's two ways to do it I mean understanding I mean I I have yet to meet an applicant that didn't want it yesterday and I understand that and I want to accommodate it um the the language that I've heard is you know it it makes sense it's but it's it's still a little vague in some respects the year and then what are the triggers and so on and so forth so I mean those are details that we need to pump into these agreements so I think you know depending on what you feel you need if you need the signed resolutions that that isn't going to happen until two weeks anyway there's nothing to sign we don't have that here tonight um so I do think this is gonna have to come back to you for to just make sure we got the drafting of it right so if what you want to do is draft a resolution approving these subject to the resolution I don't know if that helps you or if there's a Resolute or a motion to draft staff to put together the revised documents consistent with what your intentions are tonight we'll bring those documents back but we don't have those documents right now um could I interject and see if I can sure the approval resolution could be modified with direction to amend the development agreement potentially so this language could be in the development agreement because really is it what you need is the resolution of approval that has some contingencies attached to it the resolution can come back understanding that we need I have dates and other things in my head and maybe we need to talk through through things like that to do the resolution but understanding that I can go and send an email or a text to my banker and say we've got land use approval secured yeah I need you know there there'll be a resolution forthcoming and from the next Council session I think that'll fly fine but to Brandy's point if we modify the resolution that can be that can be signed that it's approved I mean it's it's subject though we're gonna have to modify the development agreement the terms that we're talking about are going to get put in there and so if if your lender is comfortable with just the resolution without seeing the terms in the development contract we can probably have that accomplished this week but my experience has been that I want to take a peek at the conditions yeah uh I guess more so knowing we have a project as we've talked about tonight so however we can if if I can just tell them we've got a yeah a quorum from the council then I think so I mean I think the point is to be able to and I'm not trying to interject myself on your side of the equation here but I mean if if you hear support here bring back a resolution that gives you a year to do what's been discussed we'll modify the documents to say that and then candidly it should just be a consent item um I don't know if that helps appease concerns or not I'm just concerned that we we can't give you final documents with our vote tonight because we don't have them before us okay so we could vote to approve it subject to bringing those documents back but there's they're still going to have to come back that would be great if we could do that subject too it's from well the to Brandi's point the development contract does not contemplate what's been discussed tonight um I'm not in a position to draft that right now um so it's going to have to come back to you for approval makes sense so we can certainly adopt the resolution that says we approve the project subject to the revised development contract bring it back but it's it's coming back okay to be clear the mayor does not have the authority to sign the resolution with one additional contingency that they have a revised development a contract well but it's a it's a critical term to the contract how do they know what they're approving right now is my point so I mean this is a condition that's been negotiated during a city council meeting with direct Council input it's it's a conceptually I get what you're at but we have to put some detail on that sure that detail in my opinion is not before you so yes I have done contingencies when we're cleaning up legal descriptions cleaning up some other things little pots and pans type stuff but not not on something like this no the resolution or approving plus the development agreement would be his council meeting yes the consent agenda both of those in my opinion that's acceptable two weeks 20th so I guess what I was trying to Jim trying to get you is if if we've got three votes here to to give you the concession that you're looking for then then this is a go I don't know if in the next two weeks you need to make some representation to your lending looks book to the city here's the existing documents that were before them what we've agreed to is to however you choose to present that if there's something we can do tonight to help appease your lending then I'd like to help fashion that if it's no just let me know when we've got the final documents that's probably going to be two weeks so I was trying to get us to a is there something soft we can give you tonight to help with your lending thank you thank you very much for that um so if it's on consent next week there won't even be a vote tonight is that correct or next cycle excuse me what I would be looking for a boat to just clean things up from my perspective is we just laid this whole thing over unless there's some reason why we can't tell the meeting two weeks from now so it won't be next it could be two weeks there will be no action tonight no action we bring it back clean resolutions that reflect the revised development agreement with that new condition and then it should all be consent there would be a vote I don't there's no reason you would have looked necessarily but at the top of this agenda there's a consent where there's no discussion it's just voted on at the beginning of the meeting I'm familiar with that yep 10 minutes later you're out if some opinions change though it can be pulled off consent you can yeah everything could change in two weeks again and and I know and I can get that my my concern well what I'll just straight up tell you is that any vote we made tonight would just be Direction anyway we're not going to approve the project I mean until we see the development contract so um I have seen votes change like you're discussing and understand that concern um I think that any vote tonight directing us to do it is a commitment from those voting that provided the language meets with their intention then we're good to go I haven't seen North St Paul back out of an agreement like that so you're saying vote tonight yep so we want to work with you yeah we want to work with you we want to here's my here's my recommendation you basically and Michaela if you need the help on this do you need final action on any of your things tonight you do on the Tiff and that has to be voted on tonight it can't be laid over for two weeks perhaps a question for the the initial Tiff documents did not have a minimum assessment agreement contained within it Sunrise banks commissioned Elbridge appraisals to do the appraisal they would not they will not consider the value of the Tiff without a minimum assessment agreement minimally that's approved by the city the value that velbridge they it was several million dollars the the value of the appraisal they came up with for this project was several over like close to three million dollars low um so we don't have a project unless I get the Tiff those documents approved by the city they will not release the appraiser to reappraise the project unless those documents are approved yeah minimally if we can have action on those Kayla from Europe otherwise I've come here tonight and we we made no progress at all Michaela do you is there in terms of what's been discussed in terms of the modification does that impact anything on the Tiff side from your perspective okay I know we're ahead of ourselves I'm just this is such a package deal from my perspective agreement yep yeah the um as as Jim was saying Mr Mayor members of the council Michaela Hewitt with Baker Tilly um working on behalf of the city on the the financial tax increment financing related to the project to answer the question on the financing as part of the revised Tiff agreement that is one of the next action items related to that is the inclusion of a minimum assessment agreement which is establishing the minimum taxable value of the project over the life of the tax increment District which has been required by the by Sunrise Bank the potential lender for the developer and so part of that valuation is based on the project as completed based on an 84 unit apartment or 84 unit multi-family project with the live work units so that is what the value of the the minimum assessment agreement tied to the revised Tiff agreement is based on and they've also Ramsey County Assessor has reviewed the development plans the financial performa all based on the revised concept with the the apartment units the live work units and kind of that modified space and the signing of the agreement which I'm prepared to walk through the revised terms at that action item is is all necessary for the developer to pursue financing and that that Tiff piece is an important component of getting the the primary financing of the project Michaela from your standpoint the the revised documents reflect turning the first floor into the the residential component does it alter it if it stays commercial for a year and then has the option to convert any years being discussed um I would have to have a discussion with the Ramsey County Assessor just to confirm I think as it stands now as the live workspace it's all been um valued as residential space so if it does become commercial that's something I would have to confirm with them how that would impact and if from a tax from a um from evaluation standpoint the value they determined is based on the the income approach so the income of the project upon completion what the rents are going to be there would also be if the project is if if a portion of it is classified as commercial industrial with per the retail component that would also have a different classification rate and would slightly adjust what the tax increment and property taxes would be for the project because as things sit right now the Tiff has already been approved last fall correct yeah the right the tax increment plan was approved last fall and that was simply providing the city with the authority to use tax increment financing but it was not a pledge of the of the increment so I from my perspective what's before you members of the council is items b c d and e and they they all relate to what's before you the consideration of a resolution to approve the Pud is what Brandy's already uh presented to you and explained hey here's kind of the give and take from the Pud I think Brandy's also touched on the need to amend the cop plan and then what we've talked about is revising the development agreement so from my perspective items b c and d are all pretty well tied together um and so until we get the language revising the development contract it sounds to me like yes there's support to do this but let us see that year provision in there and then then you become a lot more comfortable with the Pud comp plan and development contract so I see those all three coming back um I would let and so to me what would make sense is a resolution directing staff to revise the development contract consistent with the discussion that's been here tonight regarding the um continue to have the retail in the first or pardon me the commercial on the first floor for a period of a year we can put in some time frames Jim will be talking to you about that the triggering mechanisms to allow it to go to residential that comes back to you at which point in time there's a motion to approve all of these items the comp plan does take a super majority vote on this um I'll double check that in terms of the Tiff you know I that I have not been involved on and so I if that's ready to be approved tonight and if that helps that's not a bad gesture to do what I don't know is given what we're be doing to change the development contract whether that would impact how they would appraise it or whether that would impact the assessment agreement way I don't know how to give you good advice on that if Michaela if you're comfortable proceeding with that I certainly am too uh I was just looking back so again some of the history on the the Tiff agreement or the the project the tax increment district and the Tiff agreement it was all approved by Council last last fall I just looked at the definition of the with the Tiff agreement back and it was um it the the definition of project um isn't it was an approximate 82 multi-family apartment building consisting of Studio One and two-bedroom floor plans with structured parking to be located on the development property so the definition of a property has not changed from what it was originally approved within the Tiff agreement it actually it now is an 84 unit instead of an 82 unit so I just wanted to point out from the definition of what the project was there was no change from what was what was already considered approved and I knowing that the concept was this live work small piece of retail but I would say even from the history of back last fall that was included within the project um but so I just wanted to point out that it's not part of the definition or wasn't part of the definition from the original Tiff agreement that was considered um Brandi did you intend to do separate presentations for C and D or do you feel like you've already covered those I covered C D I think we could I mean d is really just the just the development it's the development agreement as was required for the original approval back in October so what you have in your packet contemplates everything that would be required from my perspective with the exception of what's been discussed here tonight on the year layover or the the additional year of so from my perspective my only concern with amending the Pud tonight and amending the comp plan are if for some reason the development contract doesn't come back to your liking or if Jim and I can't come to an agreement which I have every reason to believe we will you've you've done those actions on those property to me much like they're all in line tonight it makes sense to bring them all back and approve them with one Fell Swoop at your next meeting that that would be the typical process it seems like the Tiff is ready to go so I certainly have no objection I don't do your Tiff work for you but I understand they go hand in hand so depending I don't I don't know if there's other thoughts or considerations otherwise I can help with a a resolution combined resolution for b c and d uh Brandy unless you have other thoughts on it thank you a combined resolution can you explain what you mean by that sure what I'm what I'm envisioning is a motion to direct staff to revise the development contract consistent with requiring commercial to remain on the first floor as originally contemplated for a period of year at such point in time if that first floor or that it's no longer deemed feasible which we need to talk about it can be converted to residential so those would be the the broad terms in the development contract and then directing staff to bring back a motion for approval for the Pud Amendment the comprehensive plan and the revised development contract at your next meeting scheduled for June 20th to be placed on the consent agenda if there's that motion we'll take that and run Jiminy extra thoughts on that yep and approve the tip tonight yeah that would yeah we'll get to that one next good one for that yep so if anyone wants to say so moved based on that recommendation I think we're good second second excuse me a second number one all those in favor say aye aye thank you very much thank you thank you so then from my perspective we're on item e sorry about the agenda Management on that but I think that's where we're at thank you for the clarification thank you would you like Michaela back up to discuss that or are you happy with what you've heard for the deaf correct yeah does Michaela well motion wait Oh I thought you were done up there I'm sorry I I have a little bit more information sorry just a little bit more information on the the financial package that's before you or tonight related to the revised Tiff agreement um as I said they're the primary there's there's two things that changed within the Tiff uh the Tiff assistance agreement uh one is as I mentioned related to the addition of that assessment agreement to establish a minimum value of the project um just a little background as I said it's based on their financing typically you would look at an assessment agreement a minimum assessment agreement if there's City financing the building across the street did have a minimum assessment agreement because that was related to how the city financed or participated with tax increment financing for that project however in certain cases even if it's uh pay as you go financing or reimbursement of certain project costs the developers lender requires a minimum assessment agreement to establish the value which is one piece of the puzzle of calculating tax increment over the life of the district the second change as pursuant to the Tiff agreement is um in working with the developer and this this did come I think fairly it was fairly rapid as far as you know the developer working on their financing and then going through the effort going through the process with with their lender Sunrise Sunrise coming back with a significantly lower value and loan amount than what the project needed to proceed so it sort of set the the ball in motion very quickly to try to work on what remedies could be to fill the financing Gap one of that being the need for the assessment agreement I know I've said that five times now but that was an important component of it the second piece was as they were continuing to Value engineer the project he talked about ways to try to reduce costs we're all tired of hearing the interest rate environment construction costs all those issues but all of that also LED it to a upfront or Equity gap for the developer so as part of the revised Tiff agreement is also the provision of providing more of an upfront Financial incentive of the 793 thousand and change that's that's in it and that is really to help the developer with the first 10 years of of cash flow um based on the projected operating or projected rents of the project the net operating expenses and the availability of cash flow to both repay the debt obligation at the minimum of the the 1.2 times coverage for the debt and a reasonable return on their Equity they had requested additional cash flow assistance of the 793 000 which would be provided pursuant to the agreement it would be provided based on them actually incurring the site Improvement costs it would be still more of a reimbursement for those costs but it would be based on using funds on hand which again history on the city's action in December there was there's special legislation that was adopted by or there were special legislation that was um included within the Tiff statutes that allows cities to establish what's a spending plan so taking existing tax increment funds from districts and establishing a plan for being able to use those as one-time funds or one-time use on projects that met three conditions one on either new construction or substantial rehab of buildings though that project would create jobs including construction jobs and but for the use of the that additional funds the project would not proceed so that spending plan was approved in December of last year and that provided the city with this kind of one-time use of funds to be able to use for certain instances as it turned out this project was a candidate for it based on the amount of tax increment that could be generated from the project was not enough to be able to get the developer and the equity investors over the hurdle of being able to proceed so the the revised Tiff agreement did the did two things first the um the value of the tax increment Revenue note which would be the reimbursement based on the future tax increments of the project was reduced it was 5.3 million as approved last fall that number is now 4.35 million so the pay-as-you-go note is 4.35 based on the future tax increments of the district and also included was that upfront amount of the 793 000 so the actual pledge tip to the developer is less than what was initially approved last fall just by about a hundred thousand however it structured a little different based on what their financing and Equity investors need so the action before you tonight is to consider the revised Tiff agreement based on the the inclusion of the assessment agreement and the modification of the Tiff assistance to include both the upfront and the revised tax increment note and the last piece is again this is a pay-as-you-go financing so the develop the city is not providing whether providing The Upfront funds but they're not providing and that's all based on actual costs that are incurred of the project for site improvements and acquisition as Allowed by the Tiff statute um so that's a short summary of of kind of the history the revised Tiff agreement I'd be happy to answer any questions or stop talking sorry just as an educational Point um could you explain what a minimum assessment agreement is is that between the building in Ramsey County for taxable purposes I just want to make sure I have that clear no that's a good question so minimum assessment agreement is agreed upon value between the county between Ramsey County the city and the developer and it establishes what the minimum value is going to be on this project over the life of the tax increment financing District so it was a it was the the county assessor established the value based on the project performa including the projected rents of the building upon completion and that is what the the minimum and the minimum value will be until the tax increment district is decertified and that value is 18 million 517 000 so it can be higher than that but never lower and let's say five years from now um Jim wants to retire does that have any bearing on if he sells a property outright or um does that handcuff the city or him that that's a good question within the Tiff agreement there's also what's referred to um well there's a couple things one if if the developer decides to sell the property there's conditions within the agreement where you would you could you would allow it but there's a um a lot of you know assignment but there's um notification to the Council of being able to do that there's also what's referred to as a look back provision meaning that if there is a sale there's language in the agreement but if there's a sale within a certain amount of time there is a review of the financials to ensure that the developer is not selling the essentially what it's doing is making sure that they're not selling the property for more than it's worth because there's a tax increment note tied to it so there's specific language in the agreement that would that allows that look back if you will to analyze the performance of the project and make sure that the Tiff so it doesn't hamstring it would go along with the buyer but there would could be an adjustment to the Tiff based on the performance of the project at the time of the sale and I know reflex Medical paid theirs earlier and you can do that so that's a good question that it is with the pay as you go note there is a maximum uh principal amount that 4.35 million over the full 26 years there is an annual pledge of increment um it's it's 80 percent for the first 15 years and then 90 percent or excuse me I think it's 90 percent for the first 15 years and then 80 for the last 11 years but you're right if the if the if that those are the maximum so if the value is higher or taxes are higher and you get paid off sooner than that obligation would go away thank you I appreciate taking the time to explain that to us you're welcome other questions I think thank you appreciate it so I think the motion for tonight is to yep do I have a motion so moved your honor so move council member one second second ultimate member Norby all those in favor say aye aye thank you thank you appreciate you foreign next up is the application request from Newman's bar and grill for a temporary extension of their on sale liquor license to include a portion of their paved parking area located at 2531 7th Avenue East on Saturday September 16th 2023. so I just process question excuse me in regards to this application so is it pretty typical that we extend it on their properties that's something it's pretty normal that we do like yeah um I'm gonna let her expand on that but being that we came forward with um I don't know if this is part of the outdoor seating or not can you definitely repeat the question I'm sorry um I yeah I'm just trying to gain like Clarity around would this be a similar process for the yeah outdoor seating or the public right-of-way even though this is private there's been some conversations in City Hall about liquor licenses lately as Jenny and I and some other staff are trying to wrap our heads around them it's my understanding that I'm probably going to have the terminology incorrect but what what we have is a um temporary situation is what you're granting permission for for this special event when we're talking about the um the extension of premises for the outdoor seating on the public right-of-way that's an expansion or extension of their liquor license okay completion so this is specific to like the one day or two day or however long the event is yeah okay thank you for that clarification we wanted to kind of understand so moved yeah we're getting it done I'll second 30 seconds councilman now you got me all screwed up I yeah they were doing so well we do bloopers for for Council meetings this will be a good blooper which one was this again that you were should we start over age thank you what was age yep for Newman's or temporary extension and all those kind of emotion please so moved so move council member Wong second acting council member Norby all those in favor say aye aye next up is the new license approval on sale Sunday liquor license and on sale wine license for Everett Ventures Inc uh DBA the den is located at 2544 7th Avenue East um so I just had a question because my understanding is that maybe the K J location um hey sorry we're talking I aren't we sorry sorry wow um my understanding is that is the K J location um do we have some sort of understanding of what the den will be obviously they're serving liquor but I'm just trying to understand where they are at in their process because again this this is uh just really new news so I'm just trying to make sure I understand that it's my understanding that they are going to have a food component and possibly still keep some of the Adult Day Care I'm not 100 sure of what their their planned use is I don't even know if they've pulled building permits for the interior yet um so they're they're working through their their processes to try to get a business going so this one does feel a little premature if if I could just chime in here um what the council would do would approve the liquor license and the state would go in and do an inspection so it's not like they would be able to serve alcohol the state goes in and inspects to make sure that they can do that first before they would be granted that permit we're not given any like a nod to the state that says we're in favor of this you're saying that you would allow them to have correct yep but the state is ultimately the one who would approve or deny that I might add that it may be appropriate and I would like to get sorens and put on this to perhaps amend the resolution of approval to indicate that this is only um would only go into effect it's some future point when they have uh been granted occupancy for a use that allows liquor liquor a liquor establishment it seems to be a cart before the horse does feel that way to me we haven't really responded to explain I'm glad you pulled that one we've received the permits I don't know what the land use is I don't know if they meet the zoning requirements so having a liquor license approval at this point does feel premature I'd like to know more about what that is and what's going in there I was in the inspection I mean you say there's really been nothing happening over there that's what the thing that the city has been made aware of been checking like you know we're ready for electrical we're ready for plumbing nothing like that okay to my knowledge they have not done uh construction that would need that yet but we don't even know that as far as even occupancy yet so this is a little early for this yeah I think what you said totally the use what yeah I'm not sure if it really matches mm-hmm we had questions while you were gone okay plus we had a heck of a blooper while you were going to so you missed that I can't review that for later I'll leave you guys alone I know we are reviewing um item Jay Jay and our general feeling I believe um is that they're putting the cart before the horse a little bit okay so we wanted to know if we could approve this with a contingency upon them doing the other stuff right or the den yep nope I've got it what uh what is it that you're concerned hasn't happened um so my understanding is that That was supposed to be an adult day care center so for so I'm not clear on what the use is after you're asking for a liquor license now they're asking for a liquor license so that's kind of where I yeah we don't know the we don't know the what the business is going to be exactly they've not pulled it all over the bank permits yet with the city this is the first permit that's come through so it's a little unclear what what the end use will be so we all have to we can deny it now I'd say we pull it we don't know anything that's happening yeah probably table it yeah when they're ready okay so I mean to get the liquor license did they list what their business was Brandy or Jenny they submitted their food license so it was reviewed by everybody who's supposed to approve it including attorney I'm sure Jack looked at it I get it um well if you want to lay it over to answer those questions I would prefer that instead of denying it we just continue it until the next council meeting so we can answer those questions so the question that's been posed is what is the underlying business okay just more have you voted on it yet no no no so then I would ask for a motion to continue the item J to the Jan or June 2023 council meeting I will move council member Wong second council member Norby all those in favor say aye aye thank you I think it may be appropriate to maybe have them come to council as well and have a discussion with you guys we want to support you know we want to know what they're doing so we can help support their business figure out what's happening indeed um next up resolution approving firefighter Declaration on Dual position um so my understanding is that this expands or includes additional um coverage for retirement for a couple positions um can you kind of talk a little bit about what the economic impact would be or the financial impact that would be on the city I'm gonna turn this over to Jenny quickly but um so the Dual position that they were talking about and this is for employees in the fire department that dual position being that they are a firefighter and they are also code enforcement or inspections that that's the Dual role of what that's addressing but I will turn over the rest to Jenny so Minnesota Law requires that employees employers certify the eligibility of certain employers which one of them happens to be those that are not full-time firefighters Pera is what we are talking about and we have had them in the class of police and fire which police and fire pays in a higher percentage than coordinated so Pera sent us a letter just to make sure that we had them classified in the right class and so they asked us for copies of their job description which we provided we are we we have been putting them in the right class but they need a resolution saying that that is approved because of the Dual position so it's just a recommendation that they need them to stay in that that classification of police and fire in the pera so nothing's changing system nothing's changing no they just yep but they do need a resolution on file stating that that is correct that clarification are you good with that okay so move your honor second second council member Norby all those in favor say aye aye it's a shy crowd for the seconds all right next up is uh reports of the city manager and departments um so we have Public Works they the McKnight project is done they've got most of the asphalt back and it's just more or less striping of the road yet so that project went really well um Public Works has their new full-time person start on next Monday that you guys had approved so that's wonderful fortunately we're starting off our summer as with the school out and kids trying to occupy themselves we're getting tagged up with some things they've been taking things out of Rotary Park it had to be closed for a couple days we had some water piping that was removed fittings that were removed so they're back up and running which is great and as well as Silver Lake is now been open and that reconstructions are also complete so that's great um they will be doing hooking up the water and sewer tie-in for the student-built house and they're looking at probably the third week in July as being the completion and getting it out for sale so that project went well as well uh electric Department's been out they're working up on Silver Lake they're redoing the lights that are up there they're adding a couple more and they're more staggered where they should be I don't know what it was once upon a time but some of them lights were all over the place but now they're along the trail and they're gradually working on that and don't of course doing the work on uh Boulevard for the Lily project they have uh we had a boar contractor out there today that had some of the pipe installed and they'll be working for the next couple of days putting more pipe in the ground for them um pde has their new officer that they have hired I don't remember the I don't recall the start date for that but they do uh the gentleman coming from Ramsey County officer bonnen so we'll welcome him shortly also we got the touch truck event coming up City's hosting its annual touch truck night Friday June 9th from 4 to 8 PM you can find all of our big trucks uh there on the corner of Charles and 7th Avenue it's on the Southeast corner there that will be set up in the normal place in addition the big trucks you can check out the seat belt convincer try some craft projects and on the art cart and take the park in open space survey meet City staff and pick up a dash plaque while they last also we'll be having music in the park so you can join us for that um for the season on Thursday June 15th at 7 pm bring a lawn chair and head to Casey Lake Park to listen to the sounds of real brass so and lastly Juneteenth is now an official holiday the city of North Saint Paul observed Juneteenth holiday on Monday June 19th city offices will be closed our police fire electric and Public Works are always ready for any kind of emergencies and available see the website and our Facebook page for emergency contact information that's all I have okay thank you thank you reports from Council commission and committees councilmember Norby the Planning Commission met by a special on a Saturday and we discussed everything that they talked about today and our next meeting will be the first Thursday of July um I don't have too much new with the arts and culture commission except they're just busy and out with art cards and getting some projects um starting and I think uh tomorrow tomorrow evening is their meeting here at 6 30. can I ask you when they are going to be doing those wraps yeah yeah so we had some delay um uh just trying to make some decisions on some of the historical pieces so that's been delayed to the next phase however uh the the subgroup did go ahead and um take what was voted on and up and and submit that so that will still be coming but it did delay the entire project a little bit thank you again more phases to come and a lot more Community engagement to come as well okay yeah nothing too much to report from May 24th's meeting however just like Brian indicated that on June 15th is the First music in the park and I do want to provide a shout out to the police department Brian Tim and I had the opportunity and the pleasure of attending the national peace officers week hosted by the North St Paul police department at St Peter I will definitely say that the ceremony was very raw it was real it was filled with emotion and it was incredible to honor the fallen officers um what struck me the most was a widow of recent and she was amazing um it was the whole service was well put on it was incredible so um I give the credit to the police department they did an outstanding job with this event um lastly we had an incredible first car show I ran into mayor mangi there it was fabulous um Bob did an incredible job I mean especially with uh given all of the nuances in the city and what's happening with the construction um there were some there were new vendors there were old vendors and it was just we're back to our normal summer ways in North St Paul it's great there's a new Candy Store in town called sweeties I highly recommend all of you guys to attend it's really cool it's an old school candy store and they they made some money out of my family so they'd be doing like some sort of grand opening or I have um discussed that with them and uh right now they have my business card and well they're just trying to get there stuff opened so I can tell you that Thursday Friday Saturday and Sunday their hours are from 11 to 6 p.m so I had to know those hours right away um I had the privilege of being at the Memorial Day service at uh at the park in Veterans Park and it was a beautiful service and went very well that was a treat to be able to be a part of that the only thing we're going to do is move it from 12 o'clock to 1205 because as soon as we started talking the sirens went on add or have the siren maybe for that day either one but it was a it was beautiful uh ceremony so it was I was privileged to be able to to be a part of that car show went well I was around my cart with Bob we went around everybody had a good attitude for the first one there was some change and uh I know Bob said he was happy with how it went so it was very exciting as far as being able to be a part of that and just see it and I think it's you know people you know we coming out we're gonna let the figure out how it went and then more cars coming I'm sure so we have a lot people were parking way down uh down quite a few blocks away so it was a good event General business councilmember Norby none at this time um happy Juneteenth and happy pride month s over Square this time all right me either so motion to adjourn it's all moved so move council member along second second council member Norby all those in favor say aye aye hey we got that one good thank you everyone foreign