This transcript has been processed to identify speakers based on the provided list of officials and the context of the dialogue. **[2:55] Sam Singh (Cable Director):** 10 seconds your time **[3:06] Mayor Matt Montgomery:** Call to order city council meeting for Tuesday March 7th uh roll call please and with our council member Jepsen just a reminder we will have roll call votes on everything tonight yeah and Ryan you need to put uh your video up if you can all right guess me here growth here Jepson **[3:37] City Clerk Sarah Peer:** Maybe we'll get back to him Johnson here cronenberger here Lindell here Montgomery here Ryan I'm here **[3:37] Mayor Matt Montgomery:** All right let's please rise from the Pledge of Allegiance I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all thank you I would entertain a motion and a second to approve tonight's agenda **[4:26] Lisa Zimmerman:** I'll make a motion **[4:26] Mayor Matt Montgomery:** Motion from Lisa a second **[4:26] Derek (Council Member):** Second **[4:26] Mayor Matt Montgomery:** Second from Derek any further discussion uh roll call **[4:26] City Clerk Sarah Peer:** Guess me—aye, Growth—aye, Jepson—aye, Johnson—aye, cronenberger—aye, Lindell—aye. **[4:26] Mayor Matt Montgomery:** And it passes public input uh do we have no I don't have the sheet yet uh public input is intended to afford the public an opportunity to address concerns to the city council the public input will be no longer than 30 minutes in total length each speaker will have no more than three minutes to speak speakers May address topics relevant to the governance of the city speakers must sign up in advance and must provide their name address and the topic they intend to address comments must be on topic respectful pertinent to City business and adhere to the applicable data privacy rules any speaker that violates these rules will be asked to sit down and if the speaker refuses to comply they may be removed from the meeting speakers shall not address topics that are not subject of a public hearing all such comments shall be made at the public hearing the city council will not generally act on issues raised by the public input but may choose to schedule consideration of the item on a future agenda uh first tonight Nancy **[5:37] Nancy Hovel (Cannon Valley Fair):** Good evening everyone good evening Nancy hovel with the cannon Valley Fair just wanted to give you guys on report on how we did last year okay our 2022 Fair we had 421 4-H exhibits we had 51 head that came in for our district 6 Holstein show we had 48 head that came in for our jackpot beef so now these people are coming from all over to see this community and get exposed to it we had 29 head that came in for our Market gold show 97 head of sheep for open class we had in the open class building it's 76 culinary Derek that's food okay and canning okay I just wanted to you know we had 351 exhibits that were needle and fancy work crafts photography Woodworking and domestic Arts now that's a lot of talent we had 270 exhibits of flowers and vegetables like I say we take in 4-H kids and any open class exhibits from their surrounding counties Dakota rice Washington you know so we bring people to town and they come back what else do we do the senior center sells our tickets at our gates that's one of their main fundraisers okay the Cannon Falls Lions Club has an excellent food stand I'm sure you Laura's been there I know that the Knights of Columbus in Cannon Falls has a food stand there I don't think they have that anywhere else in the community but the cannon Valley Fair has some there we have the VFW in the legion that has the beer gardens there the FFA provides the kitty Barnyard for us and that's our future in egg is the FFA and who can walk by The Malt booth and not order one or two you know because they are pretty good we also pay different organizations to help us with parking last year the Cannon Falls Humanity Club for their trip fundraiser Park cars for us we've had in the past the Cannon Falls Church groups that are going on a trip they Park cars we have the Civil Air Patrol we have National Honor Society so we are in turn bringing the community and giving them a chance to make money in our community okay the 4-H clubs every morning of the fair we have a different 4-H club come in and pick up garbage because I don't know I think you've probably all notice people have a tendency to do this you know rather than take their garbage to the proper place um we also we provide good entertainment we have bands every night we have grandstand events which are very good aren't they yes okay see um we do the cannon Valley Fair does the Fourth of July parade that's a lot of work and it's an expense the cannon Valley Fair does the fireworks not many fairs put on a fireworks show like we do the Cannon Falls Lions have their Father's Day pancake breakfast at our Fairgrounds they had tried it for the first time last year loved it they're coming back this year so keep that date open for the Alliance um the we let parking be done for funerals that are held that Hannah's Bend Park you know we allow them to do parking for the wine and Arts Fest that's held at Hannah's van we let them park for the doulathon that's I don't know if it was held last year but I know it was the previous year we let the Cannon Falls fire department use our grounds for practice sessions so I mean I think we're pretty good at providing things for the community we are having harness horse racing a couple extra times this year well those people come from away is off if they want to go home they got to buy gas in town here right then they will grab some coffee and snacks and maybe a meal um Memorial Day weekend we're having a demolition derby a two-day event that's going to bring people in so I just wanted to to tell you we do a lot for this community and I hope in return the city will realize what we do and what I'm really impressed with is the 4-H kids and the volunteers we get they come to us as foragers because you can start now in kindergarten and they come back as volunteers in their 30s and 40s so it's a circle so thank you and you all know Cannon Valley Fair runs July 1st through the 4th entry day is June 30th and always looking for volunteers Lisa knows that right I volunteer Diane okay I'll take it oh that uh yeah I'll take them both like for each graduate too so oh and your bread mm-hmm right it's a good program and I'd hate to see it you know not be around and we're a good practice fair so anybody have any questions for me I've been at this fair for probably 36 years and I'm not gonna leave Sarah you know that thank you Nancy **[13:23] Mayor Matt Montgomery:** Yeah thank you Becca young mark **[13:56] Becky Youngmark (Public Works and Park Board Member):** hi I'm Becky youngmark um as you know um anyway I just have a question um according to our city Charter um 4.07 my understanding is when we're hiring police officers that's supposed to come from the police commission and on the last couple times Jeff has been bringing it to council I'm just wondering why the police commission isn't the one that's bringing it to council like it states in the city Charter so and I did email Laura about it this afternoon so I would try to talk directly to her to find an answer before I came here so um and she probably didn't see it or didn't have time to answer but that's just my question if the police commission is the one that's supposed to be making those decisions and doing the interviews and according to the Charter how I read it is they're the ones that should be presenting it to the council I'm not ditching Jeff in any way shape or form but that's the way the policy is written and that's why I'm asking about it thank you **[14:41] Mayor Matt Montgomery:** Thanks uh moving on to the consent agenda consent agenda items may be adopted under one motion as presented or maybe removed for discussion and resolution as Council business uh item a Justin correct claims for the accounting period ending on March 2nd 2023 Item B meeting minutes for February 21st 2023 city council meeting item C approve new on sale wine license for the Cannon Falls bears D second reading and Adoption of ordinance 390 amending city code section 152.648 relating to indoor storage item e approve replacement of wastewater treatment plant raw Wastewater pit pump item F approve the sale of a 2000 Dodge Dakota pickup item G approved Minnesota fire engine club's request item H approve East Side park name change item I approve East Side park sign replacement and item J approve hire of two police officers is there anything the council would like to be pulled down and put into Council business **[16:15] Laura Kronenberger:** Down J please J police officers **[16:15] Mayor Matt Montgomery:** okay that will become uh would you guys like that to be Council business a or D that gets to be you'd like to be a okay fair enough anything else by the council I would entertain emotion and a second to approve the consent agenda **[16:15] Diane Johnson:** so moved **[16:15] Mayor Matt Montgomery:** motion by Diane do I have a second **[16:15] Lisa Zimmerman:** second **[16:15] Mayor Matt Montgomery:** second from Lisa any further discussion all those are uh we'll go roll call **[17:01] City Clerk Sarah Peer:** guess me—aye, Groot—aye, Jepson—aye, Johnson—aye, cronenberger—aye, Lindell—aye. **[17:01] Mayor Matt Montgomery:** and the consent agenda carries Council business we will start off with item a which was the approval or approving hire of two police officers Laura **[17:01] Laura Kronenberger:** yeah so I I didn't get my email until right before we got here but I just wanted to pull down that just to do some clarification and make any changes if we feel that we need to um the city or the police commission which I'm a member of I'm not the what the chair yeah because you ditched us so um Wendy Rover is the chair but I'm a member of the committee or a commission so we met in January and agreed to follow a process of um allocating a interview committee so a subset and the interview committee is the folks that did the interviewing and how it works which was new new to me but um every candidate has asked the same amount of questions and then there there's a scoring system and then that goes off of the scoring system it's not any one person's decision it's a committee's decision um in the police commission meeting in January it was decided that the whoever the interview committee chose is who the police commission was going to agree with um and so I do understand that the memo itself came from Chief McCormick but it was the recommendation of the committee the interviewing committee that did it so um let it go there for a moment **[18:34] Police Chief Jeff McCormick:** so just like the minutes of the meeting they're taken care of within the police department our staff handles the the commissions administrative function so to speak so that the chairperson doesn't have to be responsible for that we bring somebody either myself or other staff will come and take the minutes and then write them up and then in this case as I've done since I've been here I'm just a conduit I prepare the memo on behalf of the commission so it's not my recommendation I'm just bringing forward the recommendation from a committee or Commission in this case and then to try to give further understanding to this situation this was also the transition of the commission a new Council um so there's a change in membership there was correct console there was change yes and so in an effort to be expedient well the other Dynamic is you know twofold when the charter was written Minnesota was not a licensing state so you would hire your own staff they would be local hires 1976 it was changed to a licensure state so as we move through the process we're actually mandated as your chief law enforcement office for the city I'm mandated to follow the post guidelines and rules and so in order for us to appoint an officer they have to meet all those certain guidelines and rules that the post board sets so that's where we get the conditional offer that kicks in the process that allows us to verify all of those requirements if they're not met we cannot put them on as an officer no matter how bad we want them and so the discretion that the commission used to have really has been much more limited as a result of becoming a licensure state and so now the uniqueness of these times we're competing with hundreds of other agencies just last week the administrator and I were talking there were 175 postings for police officer positions and what I am afraid of and as I express to the commission my concern on being expedient is we may have people going through multiple processes and if we delay they may accept somebody else's offer um and so far uh you know this is the first one that we're hopefully going to have complete we brought this process forward previously they just were not successful in completing all the requirements **[21:39] Laura Kronenberger:** okay so down to Brass tax are we in compliance with the 407 it sounds like we probably are **[21:39] Police Chief Jeff McCormick:** I believe we are in that the commission made a decision on to follow the the ranking and and move forward in bringing that person back to the hiring Authority and in light of Diane's comments in our work session I mean if to me that's acceptable but I'm not a lawyer and I don't know you know I I understand that it makes sense that the police commission said we're going to follow this and it was all set up prior and we're just following that but if we feel that it's not crossing the t's and nodding the eyes then we can do I mean what obviously I want to do the right thing but **[22:26] Police Chief Jeff McCormick:** so in the memo before you the police commission did approve the candidate for part-time specifically that individual where with the candidate for full-time it was to be determined based on the results of the interview commission or interview committee so if you want to um bring that one back after the commission meets again we can certainly do that there's always the risk and we are arguating again yep we will end up meeting again we're just trying to Peg down the night or the day you know that that type of thing um because I'm trying to coordinate five other schedules um together [Laughter] um and we aren't using a Google Document for obviously but uh the part-time officer was specifically individually identified as to be brought forward by the commission the full-time position was identified by the the qualified candidate to be brought forward **[23:12] Mayor Matt Montgomery:** so the risk that I see of I mean we're going to meet next week so if we want to rubber stamp the police commission on top of the fact that we said we're going to go by this but we want to rubber stamp it we can do that but then that's two more weeks before we have another council meeting or could we say something like can we say um can we modify this that we're approving tonight to say upon approval by the police commission can we add that wording **[23:58] Jon Radermacher (City Administrator):** the wording of the memo is just that wording of the memo the actual motion that would follow would be whatever you guys designate that motion to be during consent it's typically what the language within the memo you know staff is prepared but if on a polled item that memo is just a suggested language a language that this body uses for making that motion if they still choose is whatever this body makes that motion so if you want to separate the two you know prove the part time with as you know so to speak written right you can or your body can can make that decision uh if you want to separate the full time and say we don't want to have this one activated or hired unless the commission makes that recommendation back to us you certainly can do that too **[24:43] Mayor Matt Montgomery:** in a matter of I understand so we're talking about we want to make sure that we're doing everything by our city Charter yep um but also like you said to be timely um you know I think it'd be my belief that our decision as a police commission would follow that um like we said there were extenuating circumstances of the end of the calendar year the interviews that had already been done um instead of going back to square one and doing the interview process all over again with the new commission we did approve **[25:29] Police Chief Jeff McCormick:** uh with all that said I I think that we stand on pretty firm ground and just for the rest of the body we had a change in in membership of the commission but we utilize the same people for the interview panel so we did an interview panel with the old console old commission membership and I believe we interviewed five with six applicants one dropped then we interviewed again and I believe we interviewed four maybe five Michelle has the the full roster but those were then averaged combined and then re-react with with both interviews um so it wasn't just the first one and then the second one done separately they ended up being a combined effort any other questions from the council **[27:02] Laura Kronenberger:** um so would you consider hiring them both based on what you find out Thursday could we make that type of emotion well I mean based on what commission has already discussed it's going to be a five minute meeting to rubber stamp what the interview committee is suggesting because we already agreed as a commission that we were going to go with the recommendation of the hiring committee so I mean if if we if we believe that we need the that stamp from the commission we certainly could do that but it's going to be a five minute meeting **[27:30] Mayor Matt Montgomery:** yeah and that's on the full-time office **[27:30] Police Chief Jeff McCormick:** yeah on the full time the part-time part-time had already been interviewed already we just delayed bringing that person on because we were hiring and training um you know through part of 21 and most of 22. **[27:30] Mayor Matt Montgomery:** is it is it possible I mean obviously we can go ahead and today higher the conditional officer for the full time or the part-time the full-time officer can we as a council make a motion basically to hire that person if the police commission rubber stamps it at their meeting or is that **[28:16] Police Chief Jeff McCormick:** well I'd prefer not rubber stamps I would hope they would give serious deliberations **[28:16] Mayor Matt Montgomery:** approves you're right that was a bad choice if we could make a motion conditional upon their approval or if we have to do it at another meeting **[28:26] Jon Radermacher (City Administrator):** I believe you can but I would probably defer to the administrator if he's got any you know greater knowledge in that area than I do as far as the the flow **[28:26] Mayor Matt Montgomery:** okay and we need two separate motions correct **[28:26] Jon Radermacher (City Administrator):** that would be my recommendation **[28:26] Diane Johnson:** okay then I move that we hire um Robert Luna as part-time police officer provided successfully meet all required conditions of conditional offer **[28:26] Mayor Matt Montgomery:** I have a motion from Diane do I have a second **[28:26] Council Member Gazme:** second **[28:26] Mayor Matt Montgomery:** second for Mr gazme uh any further discussion on this first motion all right roll call vote **[29:13] City Clerk Sarah Peer:** guess me—aye, Groot—aye, Jepson—aye, Johnson—aye, cronenberger—aye, Lindell—aye. **[29:13] Mayor Matt Montgomery:** and the motion carries I would accept a motion or a second for the other position as well **[29:13] Laura Kronenberger:** so what we want to do is I'll make a motion to a procedural approve the firing of the full-time position post police commission approval contingent upon police commission approval yeah **[29:13] Mayor Matt Montgomery:** okay I have a motion for Miss Cronenberg I have a second for Mr gazmi any further discussion **[29:46] City Clerk Sarah Peer:** roll call guess me—aye, Groot—aye, Jepson—aye, Johnson—aye, cronenberger—aye, Mandel. **[29:46] Mayor Matt Montgomery:** and it carries moving on to council business Item B posting on City website Diane **[30:03] Diane Johnson:** is that there are other City websites that have agendas and all supporting documentation for all of their various boards committee commissions and whatever one calls them and and I know I know that it would take time to initially set up our website to have all those little bullet points or little folders on the site but once that is done being all of these things are already computer ready I wouldn't think it would take that much time to upload them to the website but I I personally would find it very very helpful to be able to have that information available on my computer as opposed to trying to come down to City Hall and ask for copies at the office **[30:51] Mayor Matt Montgomery:** discussion from the council or questions from City administrator **[30:51] Jon Radermacher (City Administrator):** I think one of the things that when you look on the larger communities like Diane Caldwell Farmington and Faribault and you look on Northfield that's a software program that they pay for and annually have a maintenance program and I'm guessing that's many thousands of dollars a year because that's nothing that's Laura and her magic can do if you you take a look at it and because it it comes around to many different so I've been contacted by these agenda keeper people and I've never reached out to ask how much it would cost because I know when you start going into software programs and getting these people it's it's no different than our finance programs and and stuff like that so you probably won't find a smaller community that has that type of stuff because when you when you have that all together and you have a consultant and a software program that puts it together for you um it costs a lot of money I don't know what the right answer is you know I I agree there should be a way to get the stuff as Sarah said today there's people that asked be put on the mailing list I don't know what would be wrong with that to get the agenda it's it's just a group email get your name on it Okay so she has uh as she said she's has people that are on it already I when I was down in Zumbrota we had quite a list of people that were on that uh list so I don't think that's how small cities do it I don't know with what we're going into with this High rate of inflation if we wanna get into that into a another expensive annual uh software program to provide that information but if there's people out there that want the information they can get a hold of Sarah give them her email address and she'll put them on the on the list that's that's how small cities do it **[33:10] Laura Kronenberger:** when you do you email out the agenda and the meeting minutes or just the agenda or just the minutes **[33:10] City Clerk Sarah Peer:** it depends on how the request is written so they have to um send a request to me by email is typically all it is is just and and so far the request has only been agendas so the distribution that you're already doing yep so that agendas agendas only so you wouldn't get um and not I'm just clarifying you'd get the meeting minutes the following time when it's on the no so it's just the two sheets agenda it's or the one sheet main yeah yeah that's what what it is is only just that one one or two pages um agenda and the recipients are the blind carbon copied so that the other recipients don't know who's received them **[33:10] Diane Johnson:** okay but you you could ask to do this I shouldn't ask for not only the all of the sporting documents **[33:10] City Clerk Sarah Peer:** if it's provided to me in writing then yes okay yeah could it and if that's I mean I still think we should at least look at what it would cost I mean we already have that one thing when you click on the council agendas that has one little folder and you know I I do not know at all how to design websites but I kept thinking why couldn't we have more little folders up there when that was created um just a little history when that was created we did at that time have a full-time I.T person on board and he was the one that structured all of that and developed and figured out how to make all of that work um but he was full-time so when he you know when I'd get an agenda I'd ship it off to him and he would post it and take care of that when he left the city then he just basically showed us each okay this is how you do it and that's honestly all I do is still follow his rules even though it's been a couple of couple years now yeah yeah um so you want me to ask him yeah you might know who it is but yeah so that's that's truly all I know I don't know anything further than that so you know according you know thinking of these software programs and stuff they most likely have an I.T person as well that helps create and post and do all that other stuff on their their City websites we just don't have that Manpower at this time **[35:29] Mayor Matt Montgomery:** and I assume the postings that we have currently are enough to fulfill the requirements **[35:29] City Clerk Sarah Peer:** the posting on the yeah so that's yeah yeah so we're doing what is necessary for sure **[35:29] Mayor Matt Montgomery:** be transparent **[35:29] Diane Johnson:** yeah if if we could find someone that would be willing to come in and like at no cost to the city look at it and say we could come up with more little folders and then every group would be able to just go like right now I'm assuming you but our council stuff in the little folder that is the council city council agendas **[36:14] City Clerk Sarah Peer:** yes that is me **[36:14] Diane Johnson:** and so if they created little baby folders that didn't cost us anything for Planning Commission and Parks or whatever other people then could just as easily from their group upload it to that little folder just like you do for the city council **[37:00] City Clerk Sarah Peer:** one would think it's it's linked into our we have a database that we are our image document Imaging program that we use and it's linked into that and I know when this was created that the city council agenda folder in this program is the only public open to the public access and so I think it's more complicated than what you're saying that as far as and don't I am not an I.T person so don't quote me on any of this but I know that you're gonna have to have somebody to be able to work and design it to be able to be more public because each folders yes I mean I put in all those agenda packets for all those meetings in that program but the only thing that's open to the public is the city council one and I don't know the reasoning why that was set up that way or not but they would have to go in and reprogram this program **[37:49] Diane Johnson:** so you already have the other little folders like from Planning Commission so it is created in there so like if you if there's a data request or anything I mean it is where we scan all of our information **[38:36] City Clerk Sarah Peer:** yes it is in that **[38:36] Diane Johnson:** so then it would it would seem that being it's already there it's just hidden from the public that it would be just redesigning the program **[38:36] Jon Radermacher (City Administrator):** yeah I know that's well I I just I guess I would feel better if we actually were able to have someone with the knowledge of website design Diane yes the system that it stores in is our laserfish system that this uses to document store right so that system contains a mixture in the other folder areas of public and non-public data so it's not just as simple as assigning you know um public clearance to all of that stuff the data that's in there some of it is not public data right and obviously that's where we keep our our records from the city get scanned and stored for eternity so to speak while the paper documents aren't kept longer than typically seven or eight years **[39:24] Diane Johnson:** but I mean obviously we were able to pull out the city council folder and make it public but city council items are always public correct the non-public stuff that you guys deal with would never end up in that folder **[39:24] Mayor Matt Montgomery:** right but pretty much Diane I think your questions are more for the programmer okay yeah I don't think that so what I'm getting out of this is it'd be easier to say sign up so you can get the emails with the agendas for all the meetings than it would be to make it public via our website the way it is designed right now uh and like we said for the purposes of storing our files in the data which we have to do versus making it Tran making it available via the website it'd be easier to get the direct email should you choose to and if we're already doing what we are obligated to do as a city to notify the public is this an item that needs any action or is this just a discussion item and can we move on **[40:57] Diane Johnson:** well then then I would request if if we're not going to move forward on at least exploring how much it would cost to redo our system to allow that I mean obviously other towns are able to and maybe have different systems I wouldn't deny that ours probably old uh that at least then very prominently on our web page we have a thing that said if you would like to have the meeting agendas and supporting documents from any board commission here's how you get it sent to you on a regular basis so that people know that **[41:43] Jon Radermacher (City Administrator):** to clarify it you're only doing the city council agendas right because like Ellen does public works and you only create **[41:43] City Clerk Sarah Peer:** well I I create the city council and finance committee um I think that's all right and but they all send them to me as a city clerk they send them to me and then I put them into our document Imaging to make sure that we keep following the rules that we need to follow and keep all those packets and then I do send those out so if those agendas out to those that request those specific committees commissions whatever it is any other questions or comments from the council **[42:29] Laura Kronenberger:** the media white is that too public like could you do a link from oh the police commission met and this was the outcome **[42:29] Mayor Matt Montgomery:** yeah you could do that but do you want to do that I mean I don't know if that's yeah you can everything is public that we do right right but here's the problem we're running into who's gonna do it **[42:29] Jon Radermacher (City Administrator):** who's gonna as I was talking to staff today we can do it the first time and and get it done but who's going to keep that all organized and maintain and up and running that's a big job when you talk about Farmington and Faribault in Northfield they got it ID i t departments that do that stuff we're down one and a half people in our Administration I and you feel I'm not dumping nothing no more stuff on Sarah we just heard what Sarah does yeah we're not we're not going to go there right right so if we're going to be if we're going to go with this we're going to have to have a person **[43:15] Laura Kronenberger:** right on the other hand if she's going to start sending this to anybody that wants it I would think it would be easier and maybe it's not this document because I I know a little bit to be dangerous with this stuff so and Laura probably is like biting her tongue over there um I get that I S we have Image Center in our company so I get this is linking out to a document repository I but is it possible to just on a regular landing page don't link out to that document but literally like even if it was me that you emailed it to and I took because you know and go and we created some fancy little high school kid I didn't mean little a young whippersnapper who knows this stuff better than we do or Laura and you had one page with all reposit all documents and it's just the raw Word document and it takes literally 30 seconds to upload it and you walk away I if if if that was an option that would be a lot less work on Sarah trying to have to email it and maybe she doesn't email it to anybody anymore it's out there you go get it yourself and then that's actually less work for her I don't want to make more work for you but I also don't know what else's options are um I can understand because we also were talking about quorums and you know running the risk of you know I don't go to the finance committee because then there's too many Council people there but without bothering Sarah to get the agenda and the meeting minutes I don't know what was what happened there and sometimes it might be good to know that you want to trade **[44:46] Mayor Matt Montgomery:** well and no I'm good and I I hear what you're saying Laura on the other side the information that goes through any of these committees that does come with approval or sometimes even saying it's not approved it still makes it to the the council agenda so that's why you know the the sausage gets ground in the Committees and the boards and then it the things that rise above still do come to us uh but I understand Diane's also a concerned of just wanting the public to have access to this I do but what I'm hearing from Neil and and Sarah this is a problem that maybe the solution is somewhere in the future but I don't know if it's something that we should put time and resources to tackle right now if it's easier to create a group email when somebody puts a request because I know group emails you can have everybody's you know BCC in there and then just after the meeting put it in there and send it maybe that's the easiest thing right now I I don't know are we uh we're still paying maintenance fees to the laser Fish Company right that we could add or not **[45:34] City Clerk Sarah Peer:** sorry I can't say 100 sure that we do pay those but I would I would be willing to bet we do I don't pay the bills but yeah I I'm sure we do with any other software that we have we usually have an annual maintenance fee **[46:24] Diane Johnson:** and I guess I would I would challenge us to say if we don't start looking at it now if we just kick the bucket down the road we're never going to do it and I don't know if this means higher a temporary person to say look at our system and figure it out and if it's that old maybe there's a lot of things we could clean up and make life easier for everyone all around and it doesn't have to be a full-time person but you know find somebody who's capable qualified and say come in and look at this and give us our options **[47:10] Jon Radermacher (City Administrator):** right off the top of your head Sarah how many requests do you have for the council agenda now **[47:10] City Clerk Sarah Peer:** okay that's public I mean let's just let's just say the question is how many people email yeah emails uh off the top of my head I'm gonna 10 15. people Okay so is that including Council or is that no citizens citizens okay I do mail two they still want paper copies so I have mail too **[47:10] Mayor Matt Montgomery:** anything else from the council all right moving on to item C City attorney present at Council meetings Diane **[47:45] Diane Johnson:** and and what we've gone over that's why I include included and sorry I didn't send the supporting documents the first time I was pointed out to me when you clicked on my things they didn't do any thanks and all they do uh you know it City Charter does say uh City attorney or among other duties say attorney must attend Council ladies now somebody pointed out that didn't say all Council meetings I do not know what the charter commission and the voters of Cannon Falls felt if they assume that when it says must attend Council meetings they assume that meant all um I realize it doesn't say that however I I think we ought to get an opinion on a legal opinion on that because if they're councils if the attorney's supposed to be here then we ought to do it even if it costs us money and this brings me to point number three which is obviously back in December of 2020 we thought the City attorney had to be president all meetings being we put it in the contract **[49:16] Mayor Matt Montgomery:** well let's let's say one thing at a time here so you just you you brought up the charter correct and then you jumped to the contract let's talk about the Charter First please uh here's a hard copy for everybody or this is also the yeah this is the hard copy for the agreement for the legal services **[49:16] Diane Johnson:** yeah but we can put it on the agenda for the next meeting oh this this would be a new one that's a new contract with uh Shelley's name instead of Sarah's thank you **[50:02] Laura Kronenberger:** would we be able to take the lawyer's name out and just leave the Firm half Berry to keep us covered for whoever they assigned to us so that we don't have to do this again if we ever assign somebody else or if she was replaced one night or **[50:02] Jon Radermacher (City Administrator):** I think it says you got to have a name in there okay okay you know I it's kind of funny uh [Music] there's a lot of things that we do as a government agency that aren't completely followed by ordinances this is one of them back in 2010 when uh it was the great LGA meltdown where the state ran out of money and all the cities got all their LGA pulled out from underneath them just before uh the end of their budget year Cannon Falls looked at that and they were cutting police officers or attempting to cutting yeah cutting cutting cutting cutting because it was hundreds of thousands of dollars one of the things that the council back then it wasn't in the minutes and it wasn't in the work session minutes but all of a sudden during that process the City attorney quit attending meetings they must have in the background talked about it and because from there on from 2010 a City attorney did not attend the meetings so it was due to uh the budget budget cuts of 2010-11 when we were in the Great Recession that's when that all started and there's a lot of ordinances that the city plays in the gray area that's one of them did they determine back then that the verbiage of not having all in there meant that a City attorney can attend Council meetings right so so there's a lot of things that we do that the ordinance are on the books you know we're we're a moving system we move uh into the future all the time hence why you'll hear sometimes there's um you can't walk down the sidewalk or you can't hit your horse are still on the books then we're long gone but they're still on the books there's things that are that don't get removed or that the council decides are not favorable and are still on the books and I'll give you a few examples look what you do when you uh have your snow removal and it says on our ordinance that from Midnight to six o'clock you can't park on the street go drive around we allow them to park on the street but buyer beware there's going to be snow you got to move your car we still have the ordinance and we can still ticket them but we don't follow it exactly and is that right or wrong every city does that every city has them type of ordinances we play in the gray area constantly you guys as a as a group two weeks two meetings ago played in the gray area when it came to four dogs think about that you played in the gray area you allowed that lady to keep her dog another one is uh think about we've got three vehicles setting up in the city parking lot here I'm supposed to park in the parking lots at night right there's three vehicles sitting up there there's still snow around them we haven't done anything about them so when when the council back in 2010 decided to do this it wasn't a big deal we've got to save some money and to be honest with you we're moving into the next budget cycle there was two budgets in my 20 some years that I've done this that I am not looking forward to one of them was in 2010 and 11 and the next one is is next year's so when we decide to work on this next budget you're going to see a lot of expenses that just became because of inflation and you know it by the the pickup truck that Dan bought with a paw on it went from forty thousand to sixty thousand so when you when you look at this stuff and you say well why didn't we do that we play in the gray area constantly if Diane gives uh to the Planning Commission a variants you know what that is that's playing in the gray area because you're not a variance is not following the rules not following the ordinances so you give them a variance so that happens all the time now if you guys want to do that and you want the attorney sitting here that's fine but I would recommend to change the charter because um 90 percent of the time you're going to have that attorney sitting here and not say a word we need her when we when we call her we need her we need her to be here so I guess I'm going to get off the high horse now and but that's my thoughts and uh um we're not the only city that does that it happens all over the place there's ordinances on the books that are never followed because they're old **[55:28] Diane Johnson:** okay I respond and I appreciate your input however this Charter was official in 2012. 2010 and 2012 are when the the people of Cannon Falls voted on it and the charter is kind of like the the basic Bottom Line This is what people the voters of Cannon Falls said are the rules they are different than ordinances which have to comply with the charter the city council can redo ordinances all the time we have a public hearing vote on it there they go City Charter to be changed has to be changed by the people so there's a huge difference I do appreciate Greers I am not saying I personally want the City attorney here and have to pay for this attorney at every meeting I I don't owe I mean I like to save money which is why I included in my notes how you can go about changing the charter asking the people of Cannon Falls to take that out and it can be done we don't have to and there again we'd have to have a lawyer look at it but it appears that we can change the charter without going through the cost of having a charter Commission but we will have if you change the charter you do have to have a vote by the people **[57:00] Mayor Matt Montgomery:** what would that cost you can piggyback it with a regular election and I have no idea but I want to say my thing is you've got to rule it's there I don't think we as a council have the authority or the right call the gray area and ignore it I believe there are three things to law there's legislation making the law there's uh the judicial that interprets the law and there's law enforcement that enforces the law our City Charter if you want to consider it a law verbatim the City attorney is responsible directly to the council among other duties the City attorney must attend Council meetings approve all bonds to which the city's party as to form approve all sureties required by the city furnish legal opinions upon request by the council and act as the reviser of ordinances for the city when it says attend Council meetings it says must attend Council meetings interpretation the word all absent the word every absent can our lawyers still approve all the bonds can they still do everything that is required of the charter yes that's an interpretation also in our ordinances which were not shared with us tonight I believe the item C says as required by the council and as you said if the rules in the ordinances are to support the charter if that was written and approved that supports this the word request by the council is that phrase furnish legal opinions upon request by the council so if we request Shelley to be present for a meeting she will be so she makes herself available for every meeting just in case we do call her to be here but saying must attend Council meetings does not mean every or all it means must **[58:30] Diane Johnson:** that's your interpretation well must attend meetings if you've been to more than one you've fulfilled it if if we had a lawyer or if we had an administrator that said we are not we are in violation why do we have a contract that says it's a separate issue attends all Council needs you this is a separate issue on tonight's agenda if you want to talk about this okay but and I I will still say I think your interpretation is incorrect I would defer this and ask our attorney to look at that or an attorney specializing in in legal documents to see whether or not we have to comply with that in our Charter and if so do we want to update it or if we can just ignore it **[59:16] Mayor Matt Montgomery:** the lawyers who have served our city since 2012 if they thought they were in violation they would have brought it up they have practiced under these same rules I would still like the attorney to issue an opinion please can we ask Shelley for an opinion on this so I could be wrong I you guys have been on the console didn't we deal with this a while ago or is that before Steve and Matt have been on here for a while didn't the attorney back then our previous attorneys say that it didn't have to be all is that right or am I misremembering this um I remember the same thing and at the time we were trying to cut costs yeah and we thought if we could save a cost of two meetings a month we would do it now if if you want to go through all the stuff it takes to change everything then that's up to you I'm just for some reason I feel like our previous attorney weighed in on this already but I could be wrong and then this is probably three four years ago I've been to Elliot back then yeah it might have even been before Neil I think it was with Campbell Knutson yeah yeah that sounds right I don't recall if it was with uh Roger Knutson or there was a younger guy Dave Kendall um there was a period where we moved through a couple just because of day shifts and when we met in their representation of other yeah to do some stuff but I do recall the the console dealing with that and getting an opinion uh from the city attorney at the time **[1:01:33] Mayor Matt Montgomery:** so have we come to a consensus that if we ask Shelley her opinion on this we can table the issue for tonight I'm okay with that all right uh moving on uh City business or Council business item D update the contract with City attorney Diane passed out the changing of a name what and you might want to look at point one or scope of Legal Services would you like this to be on the next agenda **[1:01:33] Diane Johnson:** no maybe we'd better do that yeah **[1:01:33] Mayor Matt Montgomery:** let's wait till we get her so we get the opinion from Shelley yeah then we can adjust the contract yep all right moving on to reports um Eda Laura would you like to speak or would you like me to **[1:01:33] Laura Kronenberger:** it was uh it was mostly a review of uh contracts and or uh of terms payments scheduling annual review we talked about some some numbers and then also an update on hardwood Estates I believe we were shared a preliminary what is not public but a preliminary plot of what our Engineers Bill angerman had shared with us um is there any information that can be shared with that **[1:02:19] Mayor Matt Montgomery:** I think 111 Lots and again it's preliminary but that's right yep so just the very first one we've seen but uh so an update there on hardwood Estates that's it for media uh Park Board **[1:02:19] Laura Kronenberger:** all right Park Board um some of these things were on the consent agenda the fire engine show Alliance Club came um tonight we officially changed the name at Eastside Park to the Lions East Side park they're also um looking to kind of take that take over but do a lot to that Park they want to maybe plant some trees maybe um on the pickleball courts there maybe get some stuff down there for that um talked more about the trail connection Grant which we're postponing to next year and um emerald ash borer Grant and the the direction signs the way finding signs just talk more about that we did talk a little bit about the disc golf um there's not a whole lot we can do right now because of money but some little things they might be able to do here this spring [Applause] that's all thank you public works that's me too um just had a couple water requests water meter uh what am I trying to say request to get a refund on water bills which we denied um the pit pump selling the pickup and hire part-time custodian I was on the agenda tonight that's it **[1:03:52] Mayor Matt Montgomery:** wonderful I know we had a great work session earlier today but for my department heads do you want to go one by one or are we all good **[1:03:52] Jed Petersen (Public Works Director):** we're all good Danny you good don't put the snow shovels away yet yeah thank you you trust those I was going to ask you you trust those meteorologists this weekend could be **[1:04:37] Police Chief Jeff McCormick:** Chief anything uh along with those no shovels I will uh add that uh please don't park on the streets uh this is going to be wet heavy snow if we get the number of inches that they're talking about um you know dance crews are going to be busy and we want to make sure those streets are clear so they can get them curb to curb as fast as possible to get everybody where they want to go safely and not parking on the streets really enables us to do that **[1:04:37] Mayor Matt Montgomery:** Sarah or Neil **[1:04:37] Jon Radermacher (City Administrator):** all right go around the horn **[1:04:37] Laura Kronenberger:** Laura I'm good okay **[1:04:37] Lisa Zimmerman:** Lisa I'm good **[1:04:37] Ryan Jeppesen:** Ryan [Music] say thanks to Laura for helping me get the video up **[1:04:37] Derek (Council Member):** Derek **[1:04:37] Diane Johnson:** Diane **[1:04:37] Council Member Lindell:** Steve **[1:04:37] Mayor Matt Montgomery:** me too uh I'll be quick uh congratulations to the bombers boys basketball team they have made it to the section semifinals they'll be playing Lake City here on Saturday down in Rochester uh if you are a basketball fan or a supporter of the high school and you've got nothing going on on Saturday please take the time to drive down to Rochester uh support your team I also want to thank the city for sending me to the league of Minnesota cities event this last weekend in Alexandria it was a wonderful event uh the learning sessions were fantastic um definitely uh to hear different perspectives to talk to people get a chance to meet people from different communities all across the state bigger cities smaller cities um I know I said this before but it's so funny because they always say oh you have the same issues you know money this that and the conversation a few times rotated around chickens and how many how many cities are fighting to not allow chickens and it was just uh it was funny because we do face very similar uh issues in different communities uh much larger than us and much smaller than us so absolutely I do remembered hearing very clear and it running true again today is one gal there's a city clerk in one city and she was on the city council in another city she was at my table and she said I just and she said it to the whole group if if you put something out there think of what you're doing to your city clerk [Laughter] **[1:06:09] City Clerk Sarah Peer:** yeah you're nodding Sarah you're not yes yeah **[1:06:09] Mayor Matt Montgomery:** I mean there were discussions though of uh you know Social Media budget conflict um leadership styles uh taking care of ourselves you know honestly a lot of good information so again I thank the city for allowing that uh anything else I would take a motion to adjourn and we're gonna have to roll call it **[1:06:54] Derek (Council Member):** so moved **[1:06:54] Diane Johnson:** motion from Derek's second from Diane **[1:06:54] City Clerk Sarah Peer:** roll call guess me—aye, Growth—aye, Jefferson—aye, Johnson—aye, cronenberger—aye, and Lindell—aye. **[1:06:54] Mayor Matt Montgomery:** it carries have a good night everybody I forgot