e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e yeah you ready [Music] yep the hour of 6:30 having come and gone I will call to order the common council meeting of Tuesday March 11th 2025 and ask the clerk to please call the role Alder others here field here figuroa Cole here goind Rajan here yuger here Harrington mckenny Knox here Vladimir Baris is excused Madison here Martinez Rutherford here miad RL presid tishler verier here viver here W Helia here Bennett Conlin Curry Duncan Madam mayor we have cor thank you um as usual I will remind us that we're here to do the business of the residents of Madison and ask that we do so with kindness and Grace and in particular refrain from using any profanities in our remarks regardless if we are staff members of the body or members of the public coming to testify and um our first item is honoring resolutions item one is legistar 87344783 to take the mayor's Monarch pledge we do not have anyone here to receive the resolution so uh president figuro call a motion please move to adopt moved and seconded to adopt item one is there any objection to recording unanimous vote in favor of item one seeing no objection we record a unanimous vote in favor of item one and that will take us to item two uh which is legistar 8744 6 a presentation uh we we are back to our regularly scheduled poetry recitations um and I believe our poet is online I'm not sure if our poet laurate is online as well but you'll recall that the poet Laurette schedules um folks for us to uh hear from regularly and today we're hearing from Brianna grow Brianna hi thank you mayor um my name is Brianna grow I am a poet living here in the city of Madison um and very grateful that um our poet Laura uh Stephen espot Dawson has asked me to read and sorry I can't be there in person today but grateful for the online option um so I will be reading a poem um called winter smell it's May and every week a new flower is blooming I see it maybe a handful of times stop and smell it twice if I'm doing a good job of being present in the world now it's turning brown and falling over I could breathe in every last bud and still wouldn't really remember until next year when I realized I've been smelling hents for decades moments adding up to perhaps 5 minutes I spend longer than that spacing out on the toilet every day my mother called again and I ignored it this time I already spent the whole morning waiting for her to tell me what the cat scan found and it turns out abnormalities isn't code for you've got stage four lung cancer I can't go back and forth like that preparing to love her the very best I can in the time she has left and reassuring myself I can always call her back it's January and all the flowers are long gone now I mostly say I don't like winter but at least I've got nothing to lose when I wake up expecting the sky and the ground to look the same then I see some chickies and a cardal in a pine tree and I feel pretty lucky I've heard winter has a smell too and someday it won't anymore will I miss it if I can't say what it was thank you thank [Applause] you I don't think you can hear or see in the room but you're getting a round of applause and we appreciate you and thanks also to our poet Laurette Steven aspa Dawson for scheduling these our next item is disclosures and recusals are there any disclosures or recusals on items on today's agenda alderfield thank you mayor on item 42 I'm an employee of the University of Wisconsin Madison that will not affect my vote thank you Alder Alder tishler uh I'm still a employee at the University sconsin Madison and this will also not affect my vote thank you Alder any other disclosures or recusals on today's agenda seeing none then we'll move on to the presentation of the consent agenda president figure o call thank you mayor a consent agenda is moved with recommended action listed for each item on the agenda including public hearings except one items which have registers wishing to speak and two items which Elders have separated out for discussion or debate purposes this document lists super majority items agenda items with recommendations different from the agenda items for exclusion items introduced from the floor and agenda items with corrections agenda items that are super majority items super majority vote items will be recorded as unanimous votes unless a roll call or exclusion is requested let you start item 8733 3 re approving a certified survey map of property owned by the county by the county of DNE located at 8603 to 8901 f r Drive 14 items um required um leg item 87 461 re approving the the cifi survey map of property own by Timothy netel at 4,000 5 Marsh Road LLC located at 401 to 405 Marsh Road um so the 14 V 14 votes are required to adopt this item leg start item 87163 amending the 2025 storm water utility operating budget to recreate position number 1073 as a one um FTE position 15 votes required required legister item 871 164 amending the 2025 St water utility operating budget to add a position of Environmental Specialist inspector 15 votes required Lister item 87-81 amending the 20125 adopted capital budget of engineering Facilities Management to trans transfer existing Geo baring from the general facilities Improvement program to the senior center facility improve improvements program 15 required let you start item 87285 amending traffic engineering's 2025 capital budget to appropriate additional funding in 2025 rela to the city chair and federal chair for two carbon reduction programs CRP grants for traffic signal controller and led traffic signal projects that were originally budgeted in the agency's capital Improvement plan for years from 2026 to 2028 15 votes required agenda items with recommendations different from the from the agenda leg start file 86825 amending section 33.163946 7288 creating section 2.37 of the Madison General ordinances related to removal hearing to prescribe hearing procedures to consider removal of alers from the common Council the recommendation from CCC is to adopt agenda item 87 293 adopting the city of Madison required 5e 2025 to 2029 Consolidated plan at the first year 2025 annual action plan Incorporated therein approving submission of the plan to the US Department of Housing and Urban Development also known by as H and accepting the associated analysis of impediment to fair housing choices report um the recommendation from the finance department is to adopt I'm sorry from the Community Development block grant is to adopt um agenda items excluded by one request of others or speakers registered by noon on March 11th legister item 8699 creating section 28.22 to 0074 of the Madison General ordinances to change the zoning of property located at 77 Z serone strip from TRV trv2 traditional residential VAR 2 to District district 2 t-u which is traditional residential Urban one um their's registers registers um speaker registers agenda item 86993 creating section 28.22 to 00707 of the general of the Madison General ordinances to change the soning of the property located at 6303 porish Road and 4821 uper Road from temp a temporary agricultural District to a agricultural district and creating section 28.22 to 0078 of the medicon general ordinances to change the zoning of property located at 6303 Porter Road and 4821 hoper Road from temp a district to trp District um register speakers Lister item 8745 adopting the S Creek corridor plan uh we have register speakers and legistar file 87044 amending or repelling various sections in chapters 8 10 and 33 of the medicon general ordinances related to reorganizing of City boards commissions and committees um we have registered speakers for that Lister item 76 or 86 I mean agenda item 76 and legis item 86 736 approving the preliminary pla of the Leo leaving on property address as 6303 porish Road and 4821 hoper Road um we have register speakers register item 77 I mean I'm sorry I am need some coffee today ler item 86 a24 is a substitute amending the report of the lamp house block ad hog plan committee we have a registered speaker legister item 85327 amending Section 5 .20 of the Madison General ordinances to modify the police civilian oversight board appointment process um that item is set up for um referral mayor so unclear on why is here I missed that one that's number 78 leg start item 87483 adopting the updated elected and appointed official code of ethical conduct introduced introduction of new business for referral without debate aler Donan excluded for the purpose of adding additional referrals shown belone um common Council executive committee on August 5th Board of Public Health Public Works on May 7th plan commission May 12th Board of parks May 14 Larks commission May 19 Madison Public Library board June 5th equal opportunities commission June 12th police civilian oversight side board June 18 Transportation Commission June 25th affirmative action commission July 3rd Economic Development Committee July July 10th alcohol license Review Committee July 16 Disability Rights Commission July 24th and back to Common Council on August 5th and that is the concent agenda unless there's additional people on the additional speakers that's all I got thank you all right are there any additional items that Alders wish to have excluded from the consent agenda at this time Alder tishler yes thank you uh I'd like to remove um number 55 for discussion um 55 legar 86825 thank you are there any other items that Alders would like to have excluded from the consent agenda at this time Alder Harrington McKinny uh yes um item number 58 87 288 item number 78 85327 item number 56 87044 I'm sorry Alder for the first item what's the agenda number um 87 288 that's is that not correct it's the legar number aler um but it's item 58 thank you all right so uh items 56 and 78 are already excluded so the additional item is item 58 correct and 55 right thank you aler are there any other ERS wishing to exclude items from the consent agenda at this time seeing none um then let me go through that again just to make sure that we got everything um items 59 and 60 uh require 14 votes items 67 68 73 and 74 require 15 votes on items 55 and 58 the recommendation is to adopt um as is the recommendation on item 75 and then the following items will be excluded from the consent agenda items 17 20 35 55 56 58 7 6 77 78 and 105 uh I'm sorry 105 is just adding um referrals if there's no objection we can include 105 in the consent agenda Alder miad oh yeah just if you can Madame mayor add my name to number 88 clerk will add you as a sponsor to item 88 is there any objection to leaving item 10 5 on the consent agenda with the referrals as shown seeing no objection we'll leave item 105 on the consent agenda with those additional referrals so let me um go through that again items excluded from the consent agenda sorry Alder hington mckenny um just a clarification so with item number 105 there are additional um referrals is that that's correct it's just it's um as listed on your consent agenda document it's just for introduction okay um so it's just adding referrals so I guess my question is is that um when their additional uh referrals added there's no clarification of why they're added is that um we can certainly ask the maker of the motion to clarify and we like that do that as part of the consent agenda so I want to remove that and and I'd like to know why these additional ones was added Alder is there any objection to having the Alder state that as part of the consent agenda motion no I'd like it separated all right we'll separate it then all right so one more time then uh the following items will be excluded from the consent agenda item 17 20 35 55 56 58 76 77 78 and 105 and we have no additional introductions or Corrections anything else on the consent agenda don't need to run through it again okay so then on the consent agenda president figure I'll call a motion please move to adopt second moved and seconded to adopt the consent agenda uh is there any objection to recording unanimous vote in favor of the consent agenda and the recommendations therein seeing no objection we will adopt those items [Applause] and move on to public comment and our first item with registrants wishing to speak is item 17 which is creating sections of the Madison General ordinances to change the zoning of property locating it located at 77 Sirin strip from trv2 traditional residential varied to tr1 traditional residential Urban one and item 17 we have a number of registrants wishing to speak our first registrant will be Julian Walters of District s representing eminent Development Corporation to be followed by Simon Hannah to be followed by Tommy Hannah do we have Julian yes I am here um I am also joined by Ross traill of sketch Works architecture um just wanted to greet everyone thank you for your time this evening um as mayor Santia rhods Conway said I'm jul from M Development Corporation what you'll see today um is US submitting for rezoning of a property um that we feel um is being underutilized um we would like to place a senior affordable housing deal here um and so when we go through the presentation you'll kind of see what our thoughts are um the reasoning for this resoning is because we're not um it's not zoned correctly um and it is isn't um elaborated in the South Madison plan as um an accepted use as it currently stands but we think that as you see our plans um being in the um being this location being right there on a busy street Badger Road with public transit um and just some of the other things we'll outline in our presentation um that it's it's it's valid to to to raise um for consideration of rezoning so with that being said um I will let Ross run through the presentation and I will be here for questions um at any time I I just ask you to pause for a minute do we have the presentation uh my understanding is that Ross requested that it be shared when he speaks I he he re-registered right before the meeting started okay let me see if I can refresh here okay uh but do do we have the presentation you do okay thank you um all right so then our next registrant is Simon Hannah of Milton Wisconsin to be followed by Tommy Hannah to be followed by rscl Rivera do we have Simon don't see Simon in the room so we'll go on then to Tommy Hannah of district 7 to be followed by arel Rivera to be followed by Claudia Castillo do we have Tommy mayor is mayor Simon is uh is unmuted oh oh okay go ahead Simon good evening um and thanks for allowing me to speak um my brother and I Tommy are currently the owners of the property at 77 sine strip uh we have been trying to rezone and redevelop the property since covid happened um this pandemic has put a strain on the restaurant and we have been trying to rezone it and got previous approvals from the town of Madison on pretty much everything that we have submitted however they couldn't approve it because at the time it was also going into annexation into the city during that time we were told to go through the Committees of the city which we did and then we were told to again go through the county because the city had no jurisdiction yet so we have been being played like a pingpong ball going back and forth this developer Julian um is interested in purchasing the property but that also depends on the resoning I think we all know that Madison needs the housing and um whether it's uh housing or whether it is um Regular rate housing it is much needed we have been told that uh there are certain height restrictions which we changed we have followed every uh in we have followed every uh step that the councils have told us to do and resubmitted everything and still we are met with adversity so I'm not quite sure why they are declining the rezoning and not allowing us to move forward with our future as well so we would like to see this rezoned and we would like to see a development it's not just going to help the Madison residents but the immediate community and from there I guess I will let Julian take over thank you our next registrant is Tommy Hannah of district 7 to be followed by areli Rivera to be followed by Claudia Castillo do we have Tommy hello go ahead hello thank you for having me um just in uh to reiterate yes the South Madison plan shows that there is a plan there for up to a 5-story unit so it kind of also says that it should be rezoned so just to clarify that is what the town what the what the Southside plan has in store for that piece of property so I would just like to make sure that people understand that this is was a restaurant for the longest time here in the town of Madison now City uh and it just definitely needs to get redeveloped it is a development property that needs to be uh reson to be able to do that and I appreciate your time thank you thank you our next registrant is areli Rivera of Southshore Drive to be followed by Claudia Castillo to be followed by Kate blood areli uh we have interpreters um who should be un as well so um okay um As an interpreter I'm asking if uh you would like for us as interpreters to give a summary of what the other ER registers spoke or talk about before her um if if you could first translate what she said and then I think at the end we'll come back around okay okay so a good afternoon good evening to everybody I am really thankful of the opportunity once again to be in front of you and give my thoughts and my opinions to you um and to part participate I continue to think that I am not in agreement H with this proposal and I do respect the people that is trying to do this I do respect the contractors I do respect um everything that has been said and done and but I really would like to make a point of the fact that when I rented this space we were under contract we are under contract and this was a a dream of us and you the city of Madison supported us to achieve this dream when we went to get the Liquid license so forth and so on so on so now that the restaurant is a making very good business we continue to support the community we continue to create employment we continue to help the neighbors as much as we can I am again requesting your support to continue behind supporting my me and er to be able to continue with my business okay gracias um I think if uh with the permission of the body um Can the interpreters give a summary of the um each registrant as we go along it's not what we usually do but I think in this instance it's appropriate not seeing any disagreement so um if one or both of the interpreters would like to share what the first three speakers said and then we'll go one by one after that yep but I think I can go ahead m [Applause] Simon town of jul for okay gracias our next registrant is Claudia Castillo of district 14 to be followed by Kate blood to be followed by Ross trial do we have Claudia Claudio Stasi um you may need to unmute yourself there should be a prompt to unmute and hello ah Aki yes res for okay uh thank you very much good night to H good evening to everybody thank you for the opportunity to speak to you tonight as a resident of this area of the city I am in firm disagreement with with the petition for reification of uh this area ER this project has a size that is absolutely disproportionate with uh the other areas of the of the community and it doesn't fit the plans for the area that the South SE the city of South Mason commission has the scale of the project is too big large ER there is no h uh three um stories will be more than enough ER we cannot allow to get five of them and er we you need to understand that the community in this area is a community that has is extremely vulnerable vulnerable their vulnerability comes from a challenges Financial labor and others other type of challenges and the fact that if the city approve the reification those we are going to become even more H vulnerable and that cannot be allowed we also think that our voices have not been heard we uh our voices again we have not have not been heard during this process do my um disagreement for the resoning of this area Contin in he thank um we have participated as a community with some of the proponents and Leadership for for this project and er in the hearing especially the last one we think or we thought that there was a lack of um information or that the information that they are presenting that's not is not clear because really what they were ER showing as it is now does not benefit the community as it is I insist and we insist me as a representative of my community that resoning this area in the city is uh something that is not going to be helping or meeting the needs of the community and is going to be kind of putting us further down from what we really need also we are thinking that this is not a safe area because the ER the the designers they are proposing a residential units for people 55 and older seniors and I think that this is an area of the city that is heilly that it has a lot of heels up and ups and downs and that would become H some of a safety issue for the people inhabiting these communities thank you very much okay gracias Claudia um our next registrant is Kate blood of district 14 to be followed by Ross trial do you have Kate hello can you hear me yes go ahead great so my name's Kate BL and I'm a neighbor of uh the restaurant which is what is being proposed to be taken down in order to build the the development and I want to um applaud the Developers for wanting to put affordable housing there I think that's uh a laudable um goal to have I my first objection is that I don't think Sen affordable housing is what's needed in this area we're adjacent to Park Street which has the Mec campus we have services and businesses on Park Street what we need is Affordable Workforce housing not senior the other thing I'd say is they're currently in that spot which they want to demo is a wonderful restaurant um it is a Colombian and Mexican restaurant they've put a lot of work into remodeling the space and it is a a wonderful Community Gathering space for uh both the people up there on the hill as well as all the rest of the Neighbors in this area and we would be very sorry to have that both the restaurant and what it provides is a community space uh taken out especially for for senior housing which is not really the need here thank you interpr Park Street our last register wishing to speak is Ross triel of Middleton do can you hear me yes go ahead awesome thank you uh very much for your time um so I um work for sketch Works architecture again my name is Ross triel uh working alongside Julian Walters on this development um so as everybody kind of knows we're proposing 74 units of us affordable senior housing the senior housing component of this is just one component that Julian felt was needed in the medicon community so if the community going forward wishes to see more of a Workforce housing aging uh of low income he can certainly pivot to that um so again this is a rezone it's not the the end all of the final use for this building um so we just want to make everybody a little bit more aware that uh we're we're really trying to get affordable housing here um whether it does end up being um the the older senior people or uh Workforce aged if you go to the next slide please again uh aging building uh you know I I I totally hear everybody it's it's a great Community um everybody loves what they've done with it so far um but this sort of middle um of of the housing development here is is definitely um hurting and it's missing in this area so um I think it's very much worthy of of a Redevelopment U next slide please again there's you know we're not on a large um uh thorough fair if you will um but again walking distance to a few Parks here uh we've got Madison college that was previously mentioned as well um so a lot of opportunity uh down the road you know not just 5 or 10 years down the road but 20 30 40 years down the road I think there's a lot of lot of opportunity here uh next slide please again just kind of uh showing the paths and and what is around this area currently next slide please um again this is not a final design of the building it's it's not about that it's definitely only about the rezone and trying to bring in affordable housing um Julian Walters is uh if you are or not aware he's we worked on uh a project that is slated to be starting construction here in a couple of months on Park Street uh youth centered housing uh lowincome as well so Julian has a heart for this it's it's what he wants to try to help out with the city and this is just sorry you have about 15 seconds left and just the next step in in trying to help help the city that he's from and and has really uh helped bring him to be the the guy that he is now and this is just to show that we have initial weed to acceptance and just to say that that's your time thank you thank you so ACH work J for super super super col okay gracias um that is all the registrants we have wishing to speak on item 17 are there questions for any of the registrants seeing none oh Alder [Music] Knox yeah um uh speaking with Julian Walters we have Julian back please I am here hey jul can you hear me okay yes all good yeah um you know we we had a conversation about this project and first I guess I want to say that you know I'm really um uh pleased and proud of you moving this uh project forward you're one of our you know neighbor Community Superstars so I just want to state that um on the front end I've known Julian pretty much um all of his life um but we when we had a conversation about the project and and I certainly would be one to agree that we do have a need for senior affordable housing all kinds of affordable housing um so I encouraged you to move forward with the project I actually like that it's a smaller size project most people know that I'm more concerned about oh there is there a question here yeah yeah I'm getting to it if you give me a moment and um so that was some of the things that I liked about the project but one of the things we talked about was what kind of feedback you were getting from the residents that surround the area which is the the um mobile park residence as well as the um neighborhood surrounding that so you know I just wanted to know if you could give us a little feedback on how you you know Outreach to that um to the community uh residents surrounding the project yes sir um we had a neighborhood meeting which I spent um almost two hours uh with some stakeholders and Community residents I believe January 29th um you know we worked through some people who have been working with us uh with with the community invited them invited the restaurant owners as well to take part and just have a Q&A um we didn't get too ahead of ourselves just because um we still knew we had an uphill battle but we definitely had conversation a lot of the concern was um what it would do to you know utilities and things like that how would the construction period affect the uh the mobile home park things of that nature um in which we kind of expressed at a high level um that process and how you know no utilities would be affected during construction how we would have it gated and and just kind of fundamental things about how developments happen um in neighborhoods that and and it doesn't affect um The People's direct living circumstances um they talked about the uh restaurant as well I spoke with the Hannah um as well about the lease and I want to reiterate this isn't a a a moving or or a building that's going to disrupt the commercial tenant per se um you know we're looking for a rezoning so we can have a plan and we're more than willing to work with the community and stakeholders on that plan um you know when you think about ta credit deals and things of that nature those are a couple years out anyways so this isn't something that's an immediate threat to the commercial tenant right now either um and those are things that we would have loved to have a discussion about um and worked with them um you know had they come to the meeting and that's no fault to them um there's no that's no fault to us it's just conversations that need to be had and we're more than willing to have it um we think this is a great location for what we're trying to do the size of it um the proximity of it to different services the services that we will provide in the un uh in the actual project um both for the tenants and for the broader Community um there's a lot of things and details that we could go into about but um you know honestly we're we're really trying to get a resoning so we can do something and and redevelop this underutilized land and we think and I know that we can do that without disrupting the current business of the of the of the restaurant um without affecting the community and also you know with more education and more meetings with the community kind of let them know what the reality of the situation is I think when you see a picture like this and you don't really know development you there's a lot of uh thoughts that come to mind um that you know there just need to be conversation and answer questions on but that would happen at a later date and we're we more than prepared to do that you know with translators and things like that so people completely understand what this would do the benefit for them um and in the in the broader Community um so that that that's that's my answer a I hope I answered it but uh we we definitely wanted to have more meetings with them as we got further along as you guys know this is a long process um we're not going to be moving or displacing anyone for years to come and um we're just really trying to get uh a situation where we can work with the community but also work with these private owners who want to see something done with their land and kind of move forward with their lives as well um we kind of restructured our proposal in our in our project based off what they presented before we downsized the density I made it affordable to to to to correlate with the natural affordability of the mobile park um and then like you know just being a South Madison guy who who does things for the community it's always been a location I was familiar with friends growing up in the mobile park when I went the Lincoln it it I just feel like there's something we can do there that could be um of great benefit for everyone involved with time with education and with collaboration with the community so my only other question was I'm going to pause you and Let The Interpreter um summarize that for Han for inter Knox another question yeah yeah I I guess as I went through the staff report and also um had a brief discussion with you uh Julian hold on one second I'm getting the ler all right um one of my questions were it seemed to be that there were from looking at the staff report a lot of conditional use issues so could you comment on how you feel about your project in terms of addressing those various conditional use issues and and maybe just kind of let us know where where you landed from yeah so we would need a conditional use um for the demo and then the conditional use for the 75 I mean the 74 units um with that being out of the current plan and so you know the rezoning of allowing this um to Tru um to tr1 would kind of help uh Aid uh a seamless approval for conditional use of that amount because that's warranted within the that that that would be warranted within the rezone um and so those are kind of the the auxilary things that came with the the actual resoning application that are kind of being tabled to after we see what the verdict is um some of the plans and so yeah that that's how I answer that question um there's other things that we don't yeah that that's that's my answer I go too J gracias Alder KNX any additional questions no thank you aler thank you field questions yep for Julian go ahead thanks for joining us tonight Julian um from the discussion at the plan commission meeting on Monday last week I remember some details or willingness on your all's part to look at the possibility of a storm shelter um in your property for residents nearby can you talk a little bit about whether you've discussed that with the nearby residents and then second if you've had a chance to talk to City staff about what it would entail to add that to your project and request the necessary approvals to put that in the proposal Julian yes yes um um yes good evening auditor Fields um we did have those conversations at the neighborhood meeting we have talked to some City staff um about what that possibility would look like um you know as some of you may know and not familiar with the process you know the there's designs and different committees that have to approve certain things um and that could very much well be a part of it um as it stands when we proposed what we proposed um and you know with our project it wasn't in the plans after meeting with the the community and kind of seeing the plan for that um you know that's definitely something that we would have broader discussions with like I said this is something that is a couple years out but getting this rezoning would be essential in and allowing us to actually move forward with those types of plans and really hone in a design that everybody can be happy about and that could be a great public benefit um for and with um right now that's kind of what we're pushing for um and again you know different designs and added things to it um discussing with the city working with the city working with the community to see what amenities we can offer um it's definitely a part of our plan um and and hence why it's so essential and critical for us to get this rezoning so we can get begin our planning process um for something that's probably not going to happen for another couple of years nothing further thank you uh [Applause] J for gracias are there any other questions for registrant on item 17 if not then I would just ask our interpreters to uh let areli and cloudia know that we are moving on to a different item for um uh public comment and uh after that we would come back to uh discuss item 17 gracias all right and we'll move on to uh public comment on uh item 20 which is creating sections of the Madison General ordinances to change the zoning of property at 6303 Portage Road and 4821 one hepker road from temporary agricultural to Agricultural and creating additional sections changing the zonings of property at 6303 Portage Road and 4821 heer Road from temporary agricultural to trp traditional residential planned District in District 17 on item 20 um we have two registrants wishing to speak Joanne Rubio from Avent Florida to be followed by Brian Randall do we have Joanne yes ma'am go ahead good evening I appreciate the opportunity as the applicant to verbalize how the Leo development is compatible with the Pumpkin Hollow uh neighborhood development plan and because I'm short on time can we just move to slide nine please thank you um aside from providing units suitable for varying households proximity to the Portage hoper Activity Center furthers a desire for a mix of land uses within the boundary of our proposed um Parcels that we're purchasing the Leo development provides an interconnected network of public and private Roads connecting the existing rights ofo this development provides a seamless transition between the Pumpkin Hollow neighborhood and large employment center to the South and Southeast next slide additionally a strong Street orientation to the public roads is proposed creating a more engaging Street environment and promoting natural surveillance Street trees proposed within the rights of ways will create cohesion within the um public and private Street Network and the scale and mass of the proposed development will shield proposed public rights of ways from parking and lastly the intentional Randomness used in our design creates the illusion of an established neighborhood versus a cookie cutter subdivision providing architectural character next slide and the last item that I wanted to cover is uh the Stark weather Creek um our staff report states that uh this area should be considered as an environmental Corridor and I want to State uh for the record that um DNR and uh carpac does currently not uh establish or uh consider this an Environ Al Corridor and the recommendations of the neighborhood development plan are limited to the um navigable portions of the stream to the west of Portage Road and also the southern portion of the stream the Leo development as you can see on this map is located east of Portage the intermittent stream is not considered a wetland and we have documentation from our thirdparty consultants and it is also not a navigable body of water um again uh like I said the neighborhood development plan uh specifically speaks to navigable portions of the stream and uh lastly as I mentioned uh DNR uh does not classify the Stark weather uh Creek as an environmental Corridor about 20 seconds left I'm done ma'am thank you very much our next registrant is Brian Randall of Milwaukee Wisconsin representing uh Advan Zora do we have Brian yes go ahead thank you mayor members of the common Council this is Brian Randall I'm a land use and Zoning attorney based in Milwaukee and I've been working with advenir zura on all of the Wisconsin sites I'll be very brief because Joanne did cover all of the talking points we had discussed uh but first certainly want to acknowledge this is a challenging site and a very interesting area of the city and we do appreciate having worked with staff and Alder Madison uh throughout and we do hope that the council takes a hard look at what we're proposing and and maybe find a way to move this forward to correct one thing that Joanne said I think she may have just said that our Leo site is to the east of Portage Road and as you can see on the graphic before you it is to the west of Portage Road the Pumpkin Hollow neighborhood plan from 2008 really talks about Stark weather Creek to the east of Portage Road and even though we're showing it as a dotted blue line on the graphic that you can see it is nothing more than an intermittent stream it's not an avable Waterway it is not a permanent surface water feature uh but we certainly did want to show where it would be with that dotted line and we are west of Portage Road the final thing I'll just share with you is that while we're not there yet with this proposal when we do have site details we will greatly enhance the natural features there will be pocket Parks an interconnected neighborhood streetscape and of course on-site storm water management so what may be there today will really be outshined by what we propose not only a Housing Development and some missing Middle Market housing that the city I know needs but also greatly enhancing the natural landscape in green space thank you very much thank you those are the registrants we have wishing to speak on item 20 are there questions for either of the registrants seeing none thank you and we'll go on then to item 35 adopting the St Creek corridor plan we have two registrants wishing to speak first registrant is Faith Fitzpatrick of District 19 to be followed by Lewis cornelus do we have faith yes I'm over here come on over come to one of the microphones please you can pick your side hi I'm Faith Fitzpatrick I'm a a PhD of professional hydrologist and professional geologist uh I presented comments uh previously in written form for the Board of Public Works and I'm opposed to the Salt Creek corridor plan uh just briefly tonight um I'll try to paraphrase paraphrase things um the current plan it's expensive it's unnecessarily disturbs canopy floodplain forest and soils and it doesn't fix the erosion and channel stability problems which were caused by the channel reacting to to UNM pardon me reacting to past unmaintained and poorly placed storm water and in Channel INF structure conceptual plans such as these should show how these problems will be alleviated relative to ongoing geomorphic and vegetation responses in the combined Channel flood plane and overbank areas under the current and projected hydrologic variability the plant should focus on how this flood plane Forest flal system can be used to slow filter and cool cool storm water to meet the total maximum daily loads and the total suspended solids uh standards uh I provided more background uh there was a question about this being uh some of the alternative techniques that I suggested um being researched they're not they're tools that are available to cities and counties and government agencies that are responsible for storm water in urban areas and so I provided those and I'd be glad to answer any questions um on the kind of science side or the application thank you thank you our next registrant on this item is Lewis Cornelius of District 9 do you have Lewis yeah I see we have one phone number online I don't know if that's them um if that is you on the phone you should be able to unmute yourself I believe it's star 6 to talk if not then we'll go on uh to questions are there any questions for the registrant on item 35 Alder you uh yes Dr Fitzpatrick please leg go ahead Alder yes yes Alder yes uh yes dror um at the Board of Public Works uh there was some commentary from staff and I'm sure we'll get some more clarification on this about the plan as presented being the starting point of a more detailed process and my note from that meeting is just the observation that the staff seemed to have a fairly large respect for your uh contributions and your knowledge and uh I heard in that uh an offer that uh they thought that as they worked into the details some of your suggestions and the tools that you were describing uh might be valid in some of the sub areas and they were interested in seeking your involvement uh in that more detailed process would that be a comfortable thing for you to do if if it goes in that direction uh definitely I would be glad to help and I've Al also offered that um the situations like this in other places have had a technical advisory team so might not just be one person's and one person's view for that uh so we would be very glad to do that um but again you know the other thing with the conceptual plans as it currently is is um it's very focused on bank erosion protection and so in my understanding and looking at other conceptual plans like this you want to have those other elements in the conceptual plan so that they can be further integrated into that it's some it sometimes it's very difficult to add that later ESP you get kind of going on one thing and time and everything else you know then kind of takes over sure thank you doctor thank you aler I have no other alers in the queue with questions so we'll go on then to uh I you can sit down again thank you sorry um so we'll go on to item uh 56 oh I'm sorry item 56 the registrant has uh I believe no on item 56 we have one Regent wishing speak Nicholas Davies of district 15 item 56 is amending or appealing various sections of chapters 8 10 and 33 of the Madison General ordinances related to the reorganization of City boards commissions and committees do we have Nicholas yes hi can you hear me yes go ahead thanks uh the portion of this item that's concerning for me is abolishing uh the public safety Review Committee uh the psrc is our policymaking body for issues of policing and fire response and this committee also has budgetary review authority over our most expensive Department in city government and which is also our most heavily armed in the coming years our city will be presented with unprecedented policy questions for example if a masonian were targeted for warrantless chargeless abduction and cross-country human trafficking if this madonian retarget in this in this way because of their exercise of free speech what role would Madison police play in response would they assist in that unconstitutional arrest or interrupt it I'm proud of Madison's Sanctuary City status but how it's applied is a policy question as our national government slides into lawlessness and fascism it is essential that our First Responders be accountable to City residents and responsive to our changing needs if you feel that psrc should take on more business I absolutely agree but this is not the time to dissolve our only policy-making committee that we have for police and fire departments thanks thank you and before we let you go Nicholas can you just confirm that you no longer wish to speak on item 78 that's correct thanks thank you um are there any questions for the registrant on item 56 seeing none that thank you and we'll move on to item 76 which is approving the preliminary plot of the Leo living on property addressed as 6303 Portage Road and 4821 hepker Road in District 17 uh on item 76 we have two registrants wishing to speak Brian Randall of Milwaukee Wisconsin representing Advan Zora and Joanne Rubio uh Brian did you wish to speak on this item as well no nothing further mayor thank you thank you Joanne did you have anything further on this item I do not thank you both any additional questions for either of them seeing none um then on uh item 77 The Substitute amending the report of the lamp house block ad hoc planning committee we have one registrant wishing to speak Bruce Bosman of District 12 do we have Bruce well it's been probably 35 years since the first time I've talked to this body the faces have changed a lot uh I started in business in ' 86 and my Company Apex properties we provide housing to about 3,000 people in Madison and about 75% of them are uh affordable to people making median income and we have owned the lamp house and the adjacent houses on Mifflin Street for over 20 years and we have put forth various proposals to redevelop the Mifflin Street Properties but have been rebuffed by City staff uh I know that I could push to try to go against what staff recommends but I've been doing this long enough to know that there's no point in that so probably three years ago this body voted to not reduce the zoning height limit of the properties that look out from the lamp house yet the staff m contains that I can't do a propo a development that would block The View because the plans recommendations are still in effect so my request is that you reconcile the zoning and the plan it seems like the zoning was fairly definitively decided I believe it was 14 to4 to keep six story zoning so I'd like to see the plan uh reflect that I understand that there's reluctance to modify the recommendations of the ad hoc committee I respect that I appreciate that I'm not asking for you to change their plan I'm asking for you to change the adopted recommendations from the plan they can recommend stuff you don't have to abide by all the recommendations and in fact you didn't so please reconcile the recommendations adopted with the current zoning so that we can provide a meaningful Housing Development thank you um Bruce is the only regant wishing to speak on this item are there any questions Alder Bennett thanks for coming Bruce just a few questions could you expand upon discussions with staff after the council meeting in 2021 which created this conflict yeah it it seemed very clear that they understood that this was zoned for six stories but a six-story development would block the views from the house looking North so therefore they said that they could not support a six-story development uh for that reason and I understand their position I I don't hold it against them I think that they're reasonable people doing their job according to the their their job descriptions that's why I think it's up to this body to clarify what is the actual entitlement to to build on that is it the zoning or is it the the view right and I understand it that um it's not just your property that's impacted by this report right by your count there was several hundred properties that would be impacted by this report right how many at the time that the report's recommendation were adopted it was stated in in this Council that it affected 437 Parcels I don't know that I I have no means of verifying that but that was the number that was was bed about at the time and it also reminds me of something that I found sort of amusing at the time was that the preservation planner who uh was active in in that role in in those days this is in 2013 or 2014 testified here that there are only two other properties that are that have views that looking out from a property that are protected by ordinance statute to whatever other uh means in the United States only two Montello and Mount Vernon and the third is the Robert lamp house and I I find there to be sort of a preposterousness to that because we own four other national landmark houses in Madison and I'm told I own more properties in the historic districts than anyone else in town and we have spent probably at last count around $12 million rehabbing properties in the historic districts I'm not a person that likes to tear stuff down over the last 6 years I have done four substantial developments and we've added about 500 units to Madison housing stock but my my career has been rehabbing old houses I literally we've rehabed about a 100 and I don't take it lightly the idea of tearing something down but there is a point at which certain properties run their course the lamp house is not a property that that I'm interested in tearing down I've spent a great deal of time collaborating with the Frankl Wright building Conservancy to come up with a plan that they agree with they approve of that would integrate the lamp house into a larger development where that house would be used as a component part of the development as opposed to now it its only use that we've had in our 20 years in in owning it is as a student rental and and it's just not a sustainable condition to rent that house to to a group of students so sorry Juliana I'm afraid I've lost track of your question on my my little ranch there you're you kind of got into my one of my last questions was like you know just talking about your conversations with the Frank lyd wri building conservancy and it seemed it seemed like from those conversations based on what you shared in like the plan commission meeting they were supportive of a Redevelopment that would provide a new more sustainable use than its current use as like a student housing development which love students but they're also kind of hard on a historic property yeah yeah the the Conservancy commissioned a study by ismos Architects here in town and had a lengthy site visit in a condition assessment and they concluded that we have have been good stewards of this house they their their report was very favorable but they said that they do recognize that the State of Affairs is not sustainable it is only through sort of this are not their words but I can't think of a better one heroic efforts that the sort of breaking out of the system that we're able to maintain this house despite the wear and tear that it gets and they the the clusion that has been reached amongst preservation folk is that a historic resource needs to have one of two means of continuing of persisting into the the modern world and that is it's either significant enough that people will pay money to come and tour it or it come you come up with a adaptive reuse to bring it into modern times and have it have a meaningful purpose in in its use and the Frank lloid right building Conservancy has concluded that they will support us redeveloping in in front of it in north of it only if it is an integral part of a larger development that maintaining it is intrinsic to the maintenance of the larger functioning development so that is the the resolution that we have come to with them and I I believe that they have opined that they nevertheless advocate for maintaining things such as light and air and and uh whatnot but they say that they they they feel that our proposal that we have worked together on is something that they will support great thank you so much thank you um hang out because Alder rumel has questions Alder rumel thank you mayor hi Bruce I'm on the screen thank you for the work you you know that it takes to own all these historic buildings you know I'm a big fan of taking care of properties and I appreciate the work that you and your company does and when I've been thinking about this change um you know I think one of the questions that's is a problem for you is the viewsheds and how that affects any proposal that you might come up with and I'm wondering and I won't go into the deep levels of thinking I have about view sheds I'll spare you all but I'm wondering if you would consider um if you did come through with a development proposal whether you would Grant a public easement to the driveway on North Butler Street as one way to um make sure there is public access to this historic resource it's not a question that I've considered up until this very moment and and uh I don't see any reason why I couldn't do that but I can't commit to it on the fly but no I'm not asking seems reasonable it seems like a reasonable idea because it seems to me and I'm now just sort of giving my opinion the view view in is something we have more control of than the views out so it might be something that um if and when you come forward with a proposal that would be considered part of your proposal so thank you for answer considering and keep thinking about it thanks thanks May valid point thank you aler I have no other alers in the queue with questions so thank you Bruce okay thank you uh all right I believe that brings us to the end of our public comment and just making sure yes okay um and so then our next item is item four which is legistar 87447 uh presentation by the governor Affairs government Affairs team a briefing on state legislative affairs unfortunately the Welsh group had unavoidable conflict tonight and so the request is to um refer this item to our next council meeting President figuro Cole move to refer moved and seconded to refer to the 325 council meeting is there any objection to recording unanimous vote in favor seeing no objection that vote will be recorded and we will hear from them next time and then um we will go on to item 17 which is legistar 8699 creating sections of the mass and general ordinances to change the zoning of property located at 7 27 sirloin strip uh in district 14 and I I will just alert our um interpreters that we are back onto this item um and I believe we will start with a staff presentation um from director Tuttle okay thank you mayor the item that is before the council this evening is a request to rezone 77 sirloin strip from the existing zoning of traditional residential vared 2 to traditional residential Urban 1 the reason for this request is um associated with an application for redevelopment at the site uh both to um demolish the existing commercial building the home of a restaurant presently and to um consider the approval of a multi-unit four-story multi-unit building containing 74 units the item that is before the council tonight is just the rezoning um this is the one piece of this Collective request that the council has final action on um and was referred to it by the plan commission after their last meeting the important thing for us to look through when we consider this resoning request is the relationship to the South Madison plan recommendations um this is one of the um pieces of the plan commission's recommendation that has the most um uh Nuance for the plan commission or for the council to consider tonight the site that is identified in the red circle on the map on the right side of the screen was included in the South Madison plan um in an area that was recommended for low medium residential uses um this res this residential category can generally be considered to be that sort of missing middle that we often talk about the scale between um smaller sort of single family homes and larger multif family buildings um and is generally recommended for an overall height of between 1 to three stories the South Madison plan did recommend though a maximum of five five stories for this site and you can see for other sites um along Badger Road and the belt line um but with very specific recommendations as to how that height should be considered on those sites specifically that that five-story height should be measured from the southwest uh Southeast corner of the property because there is a rock outcropping and a significant drop in the grade of the property um at the southeast corner of the site so the recommend was that that F story maximum should be measured from that lowest point on the property um so as to ensure that the portion of the development that is on top of the rock rock outcropping um and closer to the surrounding residential communities um would not be that the the proposed development would not um Tower over the adjacent mobile home park when the properties were attached AED from the town of Madison uh the property was recommended in our plan and ultimately proactively zoned Megan I'm sorry can you pause so The Interpreter can oh I'm sorry yes thank you mayor yes if we can just interpret the slide by slide I think that will work great for us okay great so can can you go back to the slide so we all have the reference y thank you so much for for for when the property was brought into the city of Madison from the town of Madison it was proactively reson to trv2 um which presently allows for up to a three-story height for development on the property the requested Z rezoning to tru1 would allow for up to five stories um at the measured from the top of the rock outcropping the related conditional use application the development proposal that you heard um earlier Julian and others speak about currently indicates a four-story 74 unit building which under our codes would be considered a large multif family building in order to consider a large multif family building in areas of the city that are recommended for low and medium residential the plan commission has has to consider the specific locations of the property and look at select conditions related to things like the proposed buildings and their surroundings natural features lot and block characteristics and access to a range of services to support the development I'll pause there for interpretation thank you so since uh this property was brought from the town of I'm sorry pardon depart m in both the staff report and the plan commission's discussion of this requested resoning the primary uh condition related to requesting this large multif family building approval in low medium residential had to do with the height of the of the proposed building and ultimately the zoning District that was requested to approve it the plan commission recommended um that the rezoning request be placed on file without prejudice um in consideration of those select conditions and specifically because it could not find the height to be consistent with the specific height recommendations for this site in the South Madison plan and I should add here that this is primarily because the perceived view the perceived mass of the proposed project uh from that Southeast Corner um would read more like a six-story building um than what was recommended in the the plan at five stories from that location so again as noted the applicant requested three separate approvals as part of this project uh the demolition which is the plan commission's final recommendation the rezoning uh which the plan commission has offered a recommendation to this body and this body has the final decision on um and the approval of a conditional use which is a an approval that the plan commission would be the final decision on the plan commission go ahead un again the plan commission recommended that the rezoning request be placed on file without prejudice um and referred that recommendation to you all the plan commission also referred the application for demolition and conditional use to its next meeting pending your decision tonight on the resoning request there was a recognition that if the rezoning were to be approved tonight the plan commission could resume its discussion of the Demolition and conditional use applications it has but that if the resoning ultimately were not approved the conditional use application as it has been submitted to the plan commission at this time would not be able to be approved [Music] see I'll note that in the plan commission's discussion of these three requests um there was recognition that um there have been project features that have been discussed in the public comment and in the comments by the applicants that are not currently reflected in the PL that have been submitted for the plan commission's consideration um it's notable because in some cases some of the things that we've heard represented as potential um amenities or um features of this project may not be approvable under the requested zoning District that is in front of us right now so while that's not really the question in front of the council and was not the question in front of the plan commission um it was noted because of that inconsistency and the last point that I'll just note because it's come up a couple of times is that um if the rezoning were approved the plan commission could consider the conditional use application as it was submitted already without any modifications and could if it finds the standards all to be met could approve it for I'll stop there and happy to answer other questions okay um so uh we'll do questions for staff next um and I think maybe what I'll do is ask that we take those questions without interpretation and then perhaps Megan could summarize the main points for The Interpreter to then share um so that we can proceed a little expeditiously uh aler Evers questions thank you mayor um this question can go to either uh Megan tutle or Jim o Keef um how many projects has the this developer eminent Development Corporation completed in the city okay um Alder Evers requ uh asked how many projects eminent development has completed in the city and I'm looking to um director of Community Development Jim O'Keefe I believe that we are currently working with the applicant on one other project uh which has not yet been completed has how many projects have been started or have we Broken Ground on so far with this developer and is this developer a firsttime developer in this city what's the history with this developer you want to go Alder Evers I'm aware only of the of the um proposed development which is um slated to take place at 11:50 South Park um location we used to refer to is 1202 South Park um that's a a development proposal that we are partnering with eminent development on um it's been um a while in in bringing it together and I think you heard the development team um earlier tonight uh indicate that they are a couple of U months away perhaps from breaking ground on that um that's the only project that that the city's been involved with this developer we can pause for interpretation here I think again if we if we can just take the all the questions and then Megan if you can just summarize the the points uh the answers at the end second question and I think this might go to Jim OE um uh is is this proposed site within the there was reference to Affordable senior housing and then perhaps if if could be flexible it could be affordable of a different sort regarding the city's affordable housing targeted area map does this particular parcel fall within a preferred area that we've so far identified for affordable housing so Alder the the request for proposals document that we will release later this year in 2025 is itself still under construction I do not anticipate that there will be um significant if any changes to the to the map that um directs developers to to where we like to see development occur so under the current iteration of that map this site would be in an eligible but not in a preferred area um and based on um past history uh we have had occasion to um entertain request or or make reward Awards to request that were not in preferred areas because typically the um the stronger proposals and those that get funded are indeed located in preferred areas I think one other point um is is relevant I know that there's there's a little bit of uncertainty about um this developers intent with respect to uh low income housing tax credits um more not not not so much a matter of whether that will be part of the financing scheme but the timing um of those credits or that tax credit application if a developer comes to uh the affordable housing fund application process with tax credits in hand and um is proposing a development in a uh location that is not in a preferred area that application would not be eligible for assistance um under the affordable housing Fund in its current iteration and I do not expect that that will change either thank you thank you Elder are there any other questions for staff on this item seeing none um then Megan would you just summarize the answers for the interpreters please yes um director um I'm sorry Alder Rumble has a question okay Alder Rumble yeah thank you mayor um I mean it just sounds like everything this this proposer wants is not possible is there anything staff could recommend that you know could be done I mean different zoning fewer stories I mean just sort of what's what's what's an alternative that's a a doable choice and your opinions thank you Alder rumel um I can't speak to all of the conversations that the development review staff may have had with these applicants before this current request came before the plan commission um but I do think that based on the plan recommendations um evaluating the overall height of the building to make it more compatible with the plan recommendations spefic specifically about the height being measured from the southeast corner of the property is probably the number one piece um of this project from the plan commission's perspective um I would also recommend that if the applicant does intend to include other aspects of the project that may not include just uh amenity space for the residential uses that revised plans be submitted that that clarify what those features are to ensure that the proposed zoning is compatible with the intent of the project M may have a follow-up question go ahead um is the tru1 zoning like the best zoning in your view are there other options to consider in the current zoning District um a project of up to three stories and 45 units could be developed at this site um ultimately the recommendations for or or the requests to rezone properties um come a little bit from how we interpret how to apply the plan recommendations and what the applicants are ultimately hoping to achieve on a site um but I would note that the current zoning would allow for a project of three stories and up to 45 units thank you director title thank you Alder Alder figural thank you mayor um how old is this plan the plan is from 2022 so a couple years old and when we were doing our reach to complete the to close up the plan was this particular Community engaged in any significant way yes I believe that the community was very engaged in the convers ation um about the South Madison plan there was a lot of work to build those relationships and um to engage with the community about the specific recommendations in the plan um and while the site was identified for redevelopment the specific Nuance of how we look at height in this area was something that was um very important in that planning process so the community wasn't against development they just had some conditions um within that you know the framing that that you're proposing it's my understanding that the broader Community engagement resulted in support for um future use of this property for housing um but with specific recommendations for how thank you thank you Alder are there any other alers with questions for staff okay Megan I'm going to let you off the hook and try my own summary both been answering and trying to summarize so but check me if I get anything wrong okay um so for the interpreters then um a summary of the answers to the questions um uh firstly that uh this developer has one other project in process in Madison that we're aware of secondly that the site is not likely eligible for affordable housing fund uh Grant third that um staff's opinion on on what might uh be possible um or what might improve the proposal would be to reconsider the height and to clarify um what amenities are included uh and so that they can see if they would be allowed under the Zoning for example the storm shelter um and then I think I think that's fourthly um that the current zoning would support up to three stories and 45 units and then the last point is that the South Madison plan was adopted in 2022 and that this particular area of the community was very engaged in the planning process especially with respect to the height recommendations for the site for CL IND the Madison Cas see okay gracias uh other figure call can I just make a clarification real quick in Spanish see okay so gracias uh Al M yeah I know mayor um I was just going to ask if uh I know I saw Julian Roy's hand a couple times I'm just trying to wonder I know he's a young developer that's coming before but if he was to make any transition or or hearing what we had to say um I would like to hear if that's okay with you it's not Al there we're past public comment all right um can I have a somebody to second that or no we're past public comment we're into questions for staff at this point in time all right thanks thank you um all right and I believe we are now done with questions for staff not seeing any others so um we will need a motion uh president figure call please uh to place on file without prejudice is the motion oh I'm sorry thank you okay M to put put on file without PR thank you uh moved in second Ed to place on file without prejudice um and then again with apologies to the interpreters I'm going to um ask if we can allow the discussion to proceed um I will try and summarize at the end um and then have you interpret um thank you um all right so the motion is to place on file without prejudice uh discussion all the others thank you mayor um regret l i will um support the motion to place this on file without prejudice uh and regrettably um with understanding that we want to encourage more development in our city regrettably and knowing that we want to encourage young developers particularly developers of color to take on projects in our city regrettably in that we specifically want more affordable housing in our city and I understand that my alers on PL fellow alers my colleagues on plant commission share those very goals but I was uh on city council and 2022 when we passed the South Madison plan there was a tremendous amount of work in a neighborhood engagement that went into that plan it's a recent plan and while the plan allows and Rec uh has recommendations and specifically addresses this particular parcel it says that under select conditions yes there could be a taller building than three stories something of a five-story building could be built under select conditions but there the select conditions are site specific meaning that it needs to be built into the hill so that the view from the folks who live in the mobile home home Community is appropriate I am as I said at the very beginning regrettable and that we want to encourage young developers I very much supported uh Julian walers and eminent Development Corporation getting the bid to do the project at what is now called 1150 South Park and was referred to as 122 South Park for many years as this is a very key site as you recall some of you who weren't on Council this was going to be the site for the third housing first project within the city but we put that on hold just housing first wasn't working and it's been vacant all this time but we selected Julian walers and his company to De develop that project with CDD with the city working in tandent but we haven't broken ground on that project I think in some sense it's perhaps caution is in order before a new developer takes on a second project before the first one is even Broken Ground the fact that there were the recommendation to place this on file without prejudice would allow for a reconsideration of the Zoning for this at an appropriate time perhaps if the preferred housing of affordable housing map would be adjusted perhaps if the developer in question has more experience in our city and we have confidence that they indeed would be successful I think caution is an order I think the recommendations of plan commission are an order I think that we should abide by the South Madison plan and all the input from residents that occurred in 2022 so I would encourage my colleagues to support the the motion to place this on file without prejudice thank you mayor thank you Elder I have no other alers in the queue wishing to speak aler mad yes thank you mayor um I remember when um there was a mocha uh coffee U being built on the North side and I remember when it U failed and I remember um being able to work with City staff and the owner in order to have this come to fruition um so given that we talk about we want to definitely help uh um young African-American uh developers that are young and new to this developing business I don't believe it's right to just to put it on file place on file with with prejudice if they can work with staff in order to make um make everybody happy I think it's important so um I'm not going to vote to place it on file without prejudice thank you Alder uh Alder RL thank you mayor I looking at the legislative history and I see that the three alers on the plan commission all voted against placing un file and if any of them would be willing to explain their thinking I would like to hear it thank you thank you Alder Alder Knox yeah um I just would like to Echo some of the comments that that um Aller Evers made in terms of you know encouraging um this particular developer to uh continue to make proposals that make sense um I talked to him about sort of the complex issues of this particular project but I also would want to encourage him to either come back modify the project maybe it could be scaled down to what staff talked about maybe 45 units or even I hope that he'll continue to um apply for other requests for proposals that the city has so you know um I'm pretty sure he's going to be successful in uh developing uh future city projects and I encourage that thank you [Music] Elder I again have no other alers in the queue wishing to speak and if that holds then um I'll just Briefly summarize for the interpreters um I think I'll do this in two or three chunks um so the first set of comments is from Alder Evers who regrets he can't support the project in part because the South Madison plan is recently adopted um he's working with this same developer on a project on Park Street um and believes that caution is in order because that project hasn't broken ground um the motion allows the applicant to come back to the council um and for us to reconsider a a similar project or a different project at this site and so Alder supports the plan commission recommendation and the South Madison plan and I'll pause and Al um related an experience that he had working with a project in his district where they were able to work with staff to move the project forward ultimately and wants to support young developers particularly young developers of color and so will not support the motion to place on file I'll pause for gracias and then finally Alder rumel uh asked what the plan commission Alders thought and Alder Knox encourages the developer to bring proposals forward um he has discussed the complex issues of this site with the developer encourages him to come back possibly with a scaled down building or to respond to Future rfps that the city may put forward [Music] said gracias all right I have no further discussion um the motion before us is to place on file without prejudice uh anticipating disagreement we'll have a roll call vote all those in favor of placing on file without prejudice will say I those opposed will say no as the clerk uh as your name is called and the clerk will please call the rooll AL there Evers I I field I I figuro Cole I I goenda Rajan i i yugar i i Harrington mckenny okay I'll come back KNX hi I vladim bur's excuse Madison hi i Martinez Rutherford I miad no RL I I tishler hi I verier I I viver hi i w Helia no no Bennett I Conlin stepped out okay uh Curry I I Duncan hi I and Harington mckenny hi I all right so that's 16 eyes and two nose with 16 eyes and two nose the um project is placed on file without prejudice and if the interpreters could just report that please okay gracias are both our interpreters appreciate your time and effort tonight thank you you're welcome and uh we will move move on Alder Vier may we have a 10-minute recess please Alder viver will move 10 minutes uh Alder Evers will second is there any objection to recording unanimous vote in favor of a 10-minute recess seeing no objection uh we are on recess let's say until 9:10 e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e we're about 2 minutes out folks two minutes [Music] out e we're about 1 minute out folks one minute out if alers can take their seats again and turn their camera's back on all right it is 9:10 and I'm going to call the council back to order and ask the clerk to please call the role all there others field figuro here gender Rajan you here Harrington mcken Knox here v b is excuse Madison Martinez Rutherford miad RL president tishler verier here Vier here lelia here Bennett here Conlin president Curry here Duncan here Madame mayor we have cor thank you all right what's before us now is um item 20 and without objection we'll take up item 76 at the same time the two are related um item 20 is legistar 86993 creating sections of the Madison General ordinances to change the zoning at properties located at 6306 6303 Portage 482 heer 6 uh yes those two addresses in District 17 and then uh item 76 is legistar 8673 6 approving a preliminary plat of the Leo living on the properties addressed 6303 Portage and 4821 heer on items 20 and 76 uh the recommendation on 20 is to place on file without prejudice uh and the recommendation on 76 is to reject can I get those motions please president figure o call move to put on file without prejudice and the second recommendation to reject moved and seconded to place on file without prejudice and to reject on items 20 and 76 are there questions for staff seeing no questions for staff is there any discussion seeing no discussion the motion is to place item 20 on file without prejudice and to reject item 76 is there any objection to recording unanimous vot vote in favor of both those recommendations seeing no objection we'll record those votes and we will move on to item 35 item 35 is legistar 8745 adopting the Sal Creek corridor plan on item 35 president figural call motion please move to adopt second moved and seconded to adopt item 35 on item 35 are there questions for staff seeing no wder youare yes I just a quick question for staff uh because I think it would be of interest to the whole Council uh there was extensive testimony by staff at uh the board of public works differentiating for us the difference between adopting this plan and then the detailed work that will follow and why it's important to have a general Plan before we can get to a detailed plan and I wonder if you just comment on that and clarify have I haven't quite summarized that properly thank you Alder we have the city engineer here thank you for that question Alder I can help answer that question um so what we're looking at in the S Creek Greenway is about 1.1 miles of pretty much unmaintained storm water Greenway lands and given the kind of lack of Maintenance over the years there are some definite real engineering needs in here but beyond that there's a lot of variables and options and different considerations so what we chose to do here was develop kind of an overall highlevel plan to help narrow down some of our options to give us some starting points for doing some more detailed engineering work and then proceeding into looking into things like the specific permits Etc uh so what we're trying to achieve with the plan and going through a very robust and extensive public engagement process was to bring some of the Community Values to the plan as well as our technical expertise storm water modeling and ecological assessment Etc to hone in some of those that wide range of options that we had here and give us a good starting point to start doing some more detailed design work and even budgeting to that standpoint um so what you're seeing here is kind of a a balance of all of that work the kind of highle engineering based on our storm water modelings and field assessments Etc as well as a lot of input from the community and trying to balance all of that input too to give us a a good starting point and kind of Prior um with the speakers prior comments too there is still flexibility in here to build in some of this additional input too as we get into that more detailed work uh so just to follow up on that uh which is Rel to a comment or a question that I had uh for a registrant earlier so for instance in developing certain parts of this uh staff would be willing to consult experts such as Dr Fitzgerald on certain tools that could be used to generate the final plan absolutely thank you thank you Alder uh Alder Conlin questions for staff yes thank you um can we talk about the burial grounds back there and like what the city ordinances or what the city's plan is or how they um check to see if it qualifies or doesn't qualify for a Native American land so what we have in the so Creek Greenway is not a burial ground we do have records from the State Historical Society there passed to us as confidential uh because because they don't want those shared publicly um but it gives us a little bit of information on where we may need to go through uh particular State mandated procedures I'm permitting in things regarding archaeological reviews and particular permits so I can't remember what the site is classified as specifically but is definitely not a burial site um there may be some additional archaeological review um but what we're also looking at is a very vague generic blob on a map right now too so kind of getting into that more detailed work and laying out what an actual construction project would look like what kind of dictate what our archaeological review and requirements would be that we'd have to follow but that is not inconsistent with pretty much any other project that we're doing throughout the city of Madison too okay thank you thank you aler I have no no other alers in the queue with questions so thank you city engineer um the motion is to adopt the plan is there discussion Alder Conlin uh thank you mayor um all my colleagues know um how much time and energy has been spent on this not only my time and energy but the staff the city staff's time and energy we have spent in um to create this create this plan um I I have worked tirelessly for the last 18 months re-engaging my community the things that I said that I was going to do my community has helped shape the plan their input has been taken into effect into account and they have shaped the plan of what we are going to see back there in 5 to 10 years to come still I mean we know that the main priority is storm water management we have to manage that storm water back there before we experien more things that we experienced in 2018 with the floods um the the staff has gone above and beyond they have done their due diligence they have reached out to outside members um outside ecological exams um we have really just hit on every point my uh some of my let me one of my constituents was not able to give public comment technical difficulties so his comments are being passed around right now as we speak um they also are leaning towards I think the constituents are leaning towards wanting to have this you know slowed down or put on file and at this point I just do not see the benefits of where that would get us we have been working hard we have brought many voices to the table to be heard and now that we have heard them we have came up with a a larger plan and this is only going to help us go forward to be able to answer some of the questions of how much is this going to cost well we don't know until we have a plan in place so this is just the starting point this is not the end of it this is just the beginning and I ask that my colleagues do support this and approving this because it is necessary in order to keep District 9 where it needs to be environmentally safe and for all people to enjoy just not the people who live closest to the greenway this is for all the residents in Madison Wisconsin to enjoy so Creek Greenway but nobody will be able to enjoy it if we do not clean it up and maintain the access path down in there for them to be able to clean up the trees and that are dead and Fallen back there so in conclusion we have said time and time again that we are going to and we have used our constituents for example um Dr Fitzpatrick we have used her in other scenarios and other um projects around the district so I would like to just say that if I could move a motion just to add so the community knows that we're committed to I want to add this motion with this recommendation that we minimize rip W rip wrap Bank stab stabilization and use more environmentally s sensitive nature-based Solutions where feasible during the design phases so thank you uh so we have a motion and a second to add and Alder can you just clarify where in the um resolution you want to add that oh I'm sorry I didn't have that part up give me one second but it's just I want to the community to know that we're still wanting to do the most environmentally just stabilization for the banks cuz I think that's a big concern for people so I think this was the best way we were able to say that we're still trying to minimize the environmental injustices to be able to incorporate people's visions ideas so let me get hold on one [Music] second I just want to clarify where we're adding that language so the clerk can get it accurate I'll have you did as well here it is okay one second okay so can we just put it um right towards the end where after where is future public Improvement and maintenance efforts will will be budgeted based on the plans recommendation the very last one can we yeah so we'll add another whereas Clause yes please um after the last where has that and can you read it again Alder yes I can one more second too many screens up so it says we will minimize rip where we will minimize RI raft Bank stabilization and use more environmentally sensitive nature-based Solutions were feasible during the Dei Divi design phase design phases with a s thank you Solutions have it okay let me just um read that back to you so the that we all can have it um and then Alder if you could also email it to the clerk and your colleagues that' be appreciated AB um so the motion is to add a whereas Clause a final whereas Clause that reads whereas we will minimize RI rap Bank stabilization and use more environmentally sensitive nature-based Solutions during the design phases um and that's been moved and seconded um and you should receive that shortly um Alder klin did you have any additional comments no that's it thank you thank you Alder Alder rumel discussion thank you mayor I I'm certainly going to support this and but I it does raise a question to me of like could you tell me more about what you mean by nature-based RI wrap because I have dealt with rip wrap before and you know so it I have visions of what that means but I don't know what it means in a storm water Corridor if you or maybe Jim could explain a little more of what that could look like thank you thank you Alder uh Alder Conlin would you like to respond um can I defer to either JoJo or um engineer any objection wolf yes seeing no objection um cind engineer wolf I'll Pi this one to our project manager JoJo O'Brien be online JoJo from engineering go ahead that's me yeah um thanks Alder RL for the question so nature-based Solutions um along Bank stabilization are often referred to as different bioengineering measures so that means typically reducing the amount of RI wrap used and trying to replace with vegetation where possible or some other natural materials so that can be encapsulated soil lifts um sometimes you can look to use tree revetments to move the channel away from the banks to try toay stabilize the banks in that way um so there's a variety of different solutions that can be used we had originally asked the public to weigh in on which types of solutions they were interested in and the public originally selected RI wrap um based on the minimal disturbance limits that you would need in relation to other vegetation stabilization options but um based on new input we're willing to look into that a little bit closer thank you JoJo um so what's before us Al Rumble go ahead thank you so I mean again I'm for this but I'm wondering if in some future as as has been stated this is the beginning will there be future reports where you can explain what how that works what you've done just kind of show us so we all kind of learn something more yeah um so during each design phase we would be bringing this back to the board and Council approval so we'd be able to kind of cross back and compare to this was the conceptual corridor plan and then here's the specific design plan for each phase of the project where we looked at different types of solutions like this and how they were implemented thank you it sounds good thank you Alder Alder Conlin one more thing I'm sorry I just wanted to check and make sure to reaffirm that the last public comment we got from the friends of so Creek that that was put into listar cuz they were having difficult issues pulling it up in legistar it wasn't attached to the agenda so I just wanted to rec confirm aler if you could um maybe forward that to the clerk we can make sure we double check to make sure that it's included okay thank you thank you all right okay so uh what's before us is the um Amendment moved by Alder Conklin to include additional wouse clause um does anybody need me to read that language again not seeing any requests for another reading so what's before us is the um amendment to add an additional Weare Clause it's been moved in seconded is there any objection to recording unanimous vote in favor of the additional warehous Clause seeing no objection that Clause Is Now included and what's before us is the main motion as amended Is there further discussion seeing no further discussion it's been moved in seconded oh Al there you g yes i' just like to uh frame a few more things and perspectives on this for my colleagues here uh I think you've heard the basis of why we need this to then move on to more detailed plans but uh and I do want to place some emphasis on why this is particularly important to District 19 but first of all engineering has spent almost 3,000 hours on this project to date that compares with the next most engineering intensive project that uh we've seen in recent years which was the design of Lake Motta Drive which took 778 hours only about a fourth of the amount of work that has gone into this project 640 hours for the Warner Lagoon project the main emphasis or a principal purpose uh for this project is to improve Downstream quality and guess where Downstream is District 19 right across uh Old Sock Road uh where we've just gone through a major dredging project uh that disrupted the whole neighborhood for a better part of a year because of all of the silt that has flown into that wford Pond from Upstream by doing this preservation it will now take it will take years before we have to dredge again at between1 and2 million per dredging so there's a big Downstream impact I think the other impact is that we've got other watersheds that need attention and another large Watershed uh the Spring Harbor Watershed also in District 19 but also close through several other districts we need to be able to capture those available engineering hours to pay attention to other things that are also very important thank you very much thank you Elder I have no other Elders in the queue wishing to speak so what's before us is the motion as amended it's been moved in second is there any objection to recording unanimous vote in favor seeing no objection we'll record a unanimous vote in favor and we will will move on to item 55 which is legistar 86825 amending sections of the Madison General ordinances related to Alder appointments to boards commissions and committees to change the appointment terms on item 55 president figuro Cole a motion please move to adopt moved and seconded to adopt item 55 are there questions for staff Alder tishler uh no I just want to just make just clarify one to make a motion uh okay let me just hold on is are there any questions for staff from any other alers all right seeing none then discussion Alder tishler yeah I'd like to make a motion um to uh for to make a motion for the second what's what's in what's in legar labeled the second tishler propos alternate uh there TI will moove the second alternate is there a second moved and seconded for the second alternate Al tishler do you want to speak to the motion uh yes thank you uh yeah mayor appoints Council confirms appointments to our city boards committees and commissions with the staggered Alder election we will be we will now be um have 10 Alders up in 10 10 Alder districts up for real action every year what's in front of you tonight the original proposal um is is what the original proposal is talking about is appointing uh 20 alers uh for what originally is the case sorry is that we have 20 Alders for two-year appointments what's before you now with the the the original is that uh the mayor would appoint 20 alers to BEP bcc's every year uh for one-year terms this means that we could find ourselves being re reassigned to new committees in the middle of our term in office what I'm proposing in this alternate is to keep two-year Al aler ter appointments to these boards commissions committees um where there are two or more alers serving uh to be two-year appointments for boards committees and commissions where there's just one Alder serving there would just be a one-year term so yeah one aler serving on a on a committee one year two or more aler serving it'd be two years um there are only a few committees that that have only one aler serving there's about about seven of them or so the majority have two or more alers or or none at all what my alternate is proposing is to do away with automatically resetting our alter appointments every year and offering us the opportunity to have a little more continuity during our time in office and I ask you to to vote Yes for the the alternate that I'm proposing to keep to your appointments on the majority of our boards commissions and committees thank you thank you aler so what's before us is the uh second alternate Is there further discussion all there hearing to mckenny uh we are into discussions is that correct yes that's correct okay thank you very much um may I ask the Alder question since we're in discussion or doesn't must to be staff you you can ask uh any of your colleagues a question at any point in time during discussion it's up to them whether they want to answer okay um so um Alder tisler could you share with the body your conversation with um um when you were making this um uh resolution share with the the STA the ones that were actually making the appointments um for boards committees and commissions thank you Alder Alder RL thank you mayor you have to get in the queue if you want to answer it go ahead Alder thank you mayor um my question is also for aler tishler having served on several of the Committees that only have one alter I wish you would explain more about why you think they're somehow different when some of them are EX for example land use committees where there's somewhat of a learning curve and just if you would respond I would appreciate it thanks thank you Elder and so just to clarify for everyone it the the way this works is alers ring in to desire to speak you all can ask questions of each other but it is completely up to the Alder whether they want to ring back in to answer the questions Alder tishler yeah sorry about that I was not pressing my button um I guess to Alder Alder rumel the um the reason I I made the change to to identifying just just if one aler is serving on on a board committee or commission uh is because we're we're going to have staggered staggered terms and so by if we kept it on a two-year two-year appointments that would mean that that a newly appointed aler would have to wait at at least a year to be on on one of these uh seven committees um so it's really more just of more looking at kind of uh fairness um that's that's that's the main reason um there are a number of of committees there is one Alder serving but there but some of them specify uh a Alder based on the where the location or the the the committee is is located for like like the the zoo commission is an example District 13 or or downtown they'll have the district district two aler um but you know so for but for a lot of for the other seven committees you know this by having those just identified for one-ear appointments it would give an opportunity for new new alers coming in um the opportunity to to have have a chance to serve on that on that committee again I'm trying to maintain for for for the majority of committees that that have two or more that we would just keep what we have have right [Music] now thank you Alder Alder Knox yeah guess my question is for you Madame mayor is that appropriate I'll allow it um so you make most of these appointments to these committees yes so wouldn't it be even if we stayed say the way that we are I mean if we went to a one-year appointment you would be able to use your discretion if someone you know um if you wanted to keep someone on a committee for for a couple of years to gain more you know because they have more knowledge on that particular committee you could do that with your discretion could you not absolutely aler and um I think that the weight of History suggests that often Mayors will keep Alders on at least some if not all of their appointments over multiple terms and my my concern here honestly is less about me making appointments and more about the burden on staff yeah um because the it it gets very it's very complicated excuse me okay all right I just wanted to get your your perspective it's it's just a very complicated Alder to um balance the Committees the requirements of the Committees the times that the Committees meet which are often conflicting with each other um and then to try and uh take into account the requests of all ERS we really do try and give you all one of like your top choice if we can or certainly one of your top three um so the more you restrict who can be on which committee the harder it is to achieve that um so it's it's not I mean of course the the mayor would have discretion to keep people on committees or not under any circumstance um but I I think that is actually not the primary concern here okay thank you thank you aler Alder Herring mckenny so Madame mayor I don't think that I framed my question to uh Alder tishin I didn't get an answer and I and you led into it with your discussion in terms of the of the time and obligation so my question really is is when we're looking at the framework as it is now and we're looking at the alternate what is the what could you give us an example of a summary of what that time commitment would it be of the same would it be less I'm just trying to have a sense of what the time involvement would be for your staff to go with the alternate as opposed to where it is is that a fair question sermon it it it is Alder I'm not sure I have a precise answer for you um my uh in in talking to lla dasta who manages the appointments in my office um I think her instinct is that the alternate would make her job harder um in and and presumably that it would take longer um because we would have to work harder to um to to sort of put I mean if you think of it as a puzzle of putting together what you have requested when you're available which committees conflict with each other and then you add on now one of the alers has to be from an even district and one of them has to be from an odd District it's just one it's not impossible it's just one more layer that complicates who can be appointed to what committee in any given year and so the more complicated it gets I mean we already spend hours and hours and hours on this process and so the more complicated it gets the more hours we will likely have to spend and I mean we won't know until go through this once but it is possible that the alternate would would make it harder for alers to get the Committees that they desire in any given [Music] year but I honestly we don't we won't really know until we go through it [Music] once thank you Alder Al Alder tishler yeah and my my apologies for not addressing the question uh uh yeah I mean we I we had early discussions way back in in February um you know when I when I first brought this up and and again my my goal is not to make it harder for for staff I mean my my day job I'm saf I last thing I want to do is make things more difficult I I do believe this eventually will make make things uh uh easier and we did put in did put in language that only asking for for one one position uh one on a committee to be even one odd and when there is a point when there's not somebody who is available to uh to serve from either an odd or e or even number District then that would come to back to the council and we would have a uh we would have the opportunity to to weigh in and discuss among ourselves which actually would make would I think would make uh make that uh easier plus we're talking about uh assigning uh just you know 10 appointments for 10 alers not not 20 every every year so this first year is going to be you know the first year is going to pretty much set set the tone but a after that I think it will we'll get into into a cycle I think it will it it will be well easier for for staff and also it also creates the opportunity for us to be to be more involved thank you Alder Alder Bennett yeah I guess this is a commenting question directed for you mayor I understand the like the intention behind having staggered terms in the first place is to maintain institutional knowledge within the council and I can see how turning um you know turning things over every year leads to the potential of like every Aller could be assigned completely different committees and of course you would never hurt others or do that but um I can see like that need to have institutional knowledge with even within our committees or our more especially our more like prominent ones so I'm wondering how we can ensure that aler it's a it's a good question I mean again I I would turn to history where I think we've had a fair amount of stability on committees and um with some few exceptions and just thinking back over the many years that I've been watching appointments often the reason that Alders leave committees is because they request to leave that committee or they request to be on a different committee instead um so I think you know yes of course it's important to have um you know some historical knowledge on a committee but I think you know for the for the function of the committee um but I also think that that you all often don't want to keep serving on all the things that you get appointed to and so you know I think we have to balance what committees people request to be on in any given year or term um with where they have been and whether that's been a good fit for them and they you know that we could keep them there for the um the institutional knowledge um you know I I dislike appointing alers to committees they don't want to be on M um and so again I think um the more restrictions there are on which Alder can be on a committee the more difficult it is to give an alder the the Committees they request and and I'm not talking just about this restriction I'm talking just even more generally right so when when we have some committees that that do specify you know it it has to be the district 14 Alder the district 2 aler and I don't think that's a bad thing but it does restrict then the choices right and and when we have committees that then their meeting times conflict again it's not necessarily a bad thing there's only so many hours in the day but that does restrict the choices of of what committees you can be appointed to so I don't think that that this change in and of itself is necessarily a bad thing I think it's the weight of all of the different things that add up to potentially fewer choices um and making it harder to balance between the stability of appointing the same people to the same committees and the desire of Alders to move off of committees have different experiences um you know learn different things or be involved in different issues over time right I mean what I'm hearing is like there could be a situation where and the far more likely situation is that there's an aler that actually very much so want off a committee and another older on very much wants on that committee but neither can get their way really that that has happened um I it could happen um I I honestly based on the experience of the last several years feel like it would be much more likely that an alder would wish to get off of the committee and no other aler would wish to take the spot or be available to take the spot given all the conflicts right and then if you again if you add in that it has to be an alder of either an odd or even District it it's just another you know potential restriction there and alers we can like we have the opportunity on our Council agenda to reject the mayor's committee assignments you can send them back to my office and we can try again um I mean we do really again try to get Alders to agree to their appointments before they're made um that it doesn't always work people aren't always happy um but you know we do try hard to to get people in places that they're going to be comfortable and willing to serve right okay thank you thank you Alder I Alder tishler it's now the fourth time I'm going to allow it because you were answering questions yeah thank you yeah and I just want to say I to Alder vett I you know that's that's why the didn't include the language about um you know that that the council confirms with with 2/3 of the vote and again you know we're going to be having you know a turnover of 10 alers every year so and I'm I'm only the language and year is only saying you know just if there's two or more appointment two or more alers serving on a committee just one of those appointments would be an even number one would be an odd number um and it doesn't you know that's that's that's all I'm saying I'm not restricting any any you beyond that at all and it just then again creates an opportunity for for those 10 alers that are that are reappointed or new to have have an opportunity to serve on one of the Committees thank you Alder Alder RL for the second time thank you mayor um yeah I don't know this one just tickles me because like this approach doesn't deal with um geography which I think is another balance and me or would use and then also when I start thinking about it like a couple of the alers have all these committees that are assigned to them because of their district and did any of the people looking at this think like do we have to have like the district for Alder on all these committees or the other one probably has a lot is District 13 like could other people serve on some of these committees just a just a question maybe for the mayor or for the people that have been digging into committee and BCC stuff thanks thank you aler I think it's certainly something that we could look at in the next phase of the BCC conversation Alder Ginder Rajan thank you mayor I've kind of flip-flopped on this at CCC I voted in favor of the alternate but I think through this discussion I've been able to like think of a couple things I hadn't previously my biggest concern right now is just the GE geographical differences in where the events and odds of aler districts currently lie on the west side two out of the eight older districts are evens whereas the entire ismos is even District um the East Side you guys are pretty balanced I'll give you that um but I think that might cause some issues because Transportation Commission for example if we're thinking about the north south brt then that go through pretty much just evens and then uh District 13 so or how are we going to balance that out uh when it comes to like issues like that um and then the topic of adding another restriction to committee appointments I think personally I'm a little hesitant on that given at the start of my term two out of the four committees I served on were because that's what it says in ordinance um so I only really had two choices when it comes to picking my um my committees and that's going to be the case for the future District a older as well who will also be a student and can't have five or six committees um I do Wonder maybe like if I do think that consistency in committees is important and we do get that through the Commissioners and the resident members who serve three-year appointments but for alers I think that's also important maybe some language that says something like the mayor to the best of her abilities can um maintain alers and reappoint them something along those lines if the motion's author is favorable towards that I think would be cool um but those are my thoughts thank you thank you aler I have no other alers in the que wishing to speak anticipating disagreement um all those in favor of the second alternate will say I those opposed no as your name is called and the clerk will please call the role all there others no no field no figuro Cole no Ginder Rajan sure come back you no no Harrington mckenny I I Knox I I Vadim bur's excuse Madison no no Martinez Rutherford no no miad no no ruml no no tishler I I verier no no fer no Noelia I I Bennett no no Conlin no no Curry no no Duncan no no G Rajan no no so that's four eyes and 15 notes with four eyes the second alternate fails that's back to the main motion which is to adopt Is there further discussion seeing no fur Alder Mian well as an alder that was taken off his committees I strongly oppose this change because it further consolidate power in the mayor's office allowing uteral uteral decision that can be undermined Democratic uh representation committee appointments should be about service and experties not political um maneuvering we need checks and balances oford what uh some uh Mar said not unchecked Authority so I will not support it at all thank you other is there any further discussion seeing none the motion before us is to adopt uh anticipating disagreement all those in favor I those opposed no as your name is called and the clerk will please call the role all there others no no excuse me I I that's okay all is I uh field I figuro Cole I I goind Rajan I I you I I Harrington mckenny no no Knox no no Vladimir bur say excuse Madison i i Martinez Rutherford I I MI no no ruml I I tishler no no verier I I Vier i i w Helia I I Bennett hi Conlin I I Bennett and Conlin are both I Curry I I Duncan I I what is 15 eyes and four nose with 15 eyes the passes and that will take us to item 56 which is legistar 87044 amending or repealing various sections in chapters 8 10 and 33 of the Madison General ordinances related to reorganization of City boards commissions and committees on item 56 president figuro call a motion please move to adopt moved and seconded to adopt on item 56 are there questions for staff Alder rumel no not questions no question uh I do not see anyone else in the queue with questions so discussion Al the rumel you you muted yourself aler there you go I I sent a motion uh by email to all of you to strike um now I don't have it in front of me the part about the psrc being eliminated so Alder rumel will um move to um strike the language that removes the psrc is there a second Alder Knox will second all right so uh what's before us on the floor is an amendment to to um remove to restore the psrc let's put it that way I don't want too many double negatives in there uh on that Amendment are there questions for staff I'm sorry Alder rumel would you like to speak to it yes thank you mayor um this one just kind of if we take away the psrc we take away some duties that we've given them that are not replaced anywhere else which include re reviewing service priorities and capital budget priorities for the police and fire department serving as a liaison with the community on public safety and having an annual review and recommendations to the to the mayor and Council regarding annual work plans and long range plans you know we do have peob which is on the agenda later but that's not their jurisdiction we have the police and fire commission We could decide to give them more policy Authority but there's no alers that serve on that and there's no alers that serve on peob so the largest piece of our budget is like Public Safety and I just would hope that we could keep this committee and help it get the best it can be to do the job that we need it to do thank you thank you aler aler Knox yeah I just wanted to say I agree with um other rumo um I I really think that the two years I've served on this committee we've had great participation um over these last two years and I certainly feel that we could expand the range of safety issues that impact our city Beyond police and fire I mean we could have safety there are a host of safety issues that could be um uh referred to this committee to address whether it's you know um you know pedestrian safety there's all kinds of issues we having these issues with the with uh school kids safeties and safe paths to school so I really think this is a committee that really um as a charge that's going to become increasingly more important to our city particularly with some of the things where hearing about you know from our federal government I really think this is a critical uh committee that needs to continue to serve thank you thank you Elder Elder Harington mckenny thank you Madame mayor um I am going to support the removal of the uh Public Safety and Review Committee and I specifically am going to support the removal is that of that was the committee that I wanted to serve on when I was first elected as Alder and um Time After Time After Time uh our committees um either they did not meet or um there was no structure there and um uh we never seemed to get around to the report from the fire department because everything was uh leveled against the police and so for that for that committee and the Staffing of that committee would be prepared for that committee meeting and then they did not have Quorum and so repeatedly repeatedly that is what I found as an aler on a public safety and Review Committee and I am um um I am will be supporting that the P that the public safety and Review Committee would be one of the Committees that uh will be sunris not Sunrise that probably is not the the right term but sunset sunset I knew was I was in the so so yes I believe that that committee should be um Sunset because time after time it has been so frustrating because I thought that that was going to be the most powerful uh committee there was and I sat there and I sat there probably for about two of my terms and I realized that it was not going in a direction that it should be it could have been a strong um committee but it was not and so the question always came back to what should we do and um and so that is a committee that I will support some sunsetting thank you aler Alder Bennett yeah I guess I do see how this how how this committee is a little bit duplicative of PC and I'm wondering what's stopping the council if anything from maybe directing staff or the pcob to kind of incorporate some of the responsibilities of of psrc into pcob or if those or if those efforts are already you know the pcob already has some of the directives that psrc has is that a question for me Alder yeah guess is a comment question I'm just curious we'll leave it as a rhetorical question Alder I mean I think the the answer is the council could ask any committee to take up any charge um but historically excuse me the the council has chosen to take on issues around policing in particular itself through ad hoc committees or task forces rather than delegating them to the psrc right right which yeah the attorney may have some all I just not the co part of its charge though is community outreach and engagement which the psrc was is also charged with and the PC is also charged with analyzing the budget right which is what the psrc is also charged with um I don't know that the cob has a formal charge to review the budget okay they have the ability to I mean they can and I mean having attended a lot of the psrc meetings over the years I think they had a challenge with that task anyway uh to review the police and fire department budgets in a timely manner to be able to provide any meaningful input right I I suppose my suggestion would be those that are are hesitant to repeal the psrc would look to other outlets that we currently have to kind of reorganize those efforts instead that's a comment okay yeah sorry thank thank you Alder um Alder ever thank you mayor and uh I want to thank Alder rmo for making this amendment I will not be supporting it not because I don't think that Public Safety is worthy of review but because it is so important and forms such a large portion of our budget issues that are pertaining to Public Safety should come to the entire body and that is what we're doing with quarterly police reports with car's updates with things like that I think that the logic and doing away with this committee is in recognizing that it this element is so critical and so crucial we should all be up to date we should all be informed we should all be engaged as to how our money is spent in this area so um given the fact that psrc has a history of being dysfunctional and overly politicized perhaps um I appreciate the idea that we take on those responsibilities collectively as a body and debate them as needed as a whole so I won't be supporting um this amendment but I do appreciate Alder rumo for making it thank you thank you Alder Alder Herring to McKinny for the second time oh thank you madam mayor um so my part of my question was the uh the fire department but we have been incorporating the report from cares and the fire so that was that was the landing is that at these the public safety Review Committee we would never get to the report of the fire department and they prepared and all of that and so I want to make sure that they land and if we're opening it up in terms of it being a report to the full body they would also have an opportunity to present their program and so I think we're headed in the right direction in terms of of sun setting Public Safety and review um and then making sure that there is space in opportunity that we hear from our fire department because they are doing a wonderful job sometimes and it would be frustrating to me that they'd show up at these meetings and um we would not have time to listen to them and so we're headed in the right direction thank you Alder Alder Ginder Rajan thank you mayor and I appreciate the Insight from Alder mckin as well um from her time serving on the committee can I get um Deputy Mayor boml to kind of explain why this committee is on this list if that's okay uh is there objection right uh go ahead okay um thank you we we did as you know through the process of analysis look at a review of mission statements talk to Alders talk to staff Etc and we did hear from Alders that they thought um there was some redundancy with other committees um related to psrc um we heard from staff I think something that was more related to a point in time for the most part um there was a point in time as pcob was getting up to speed that they were asking for a lot of um kind of educational briefings so there was a point in time where there was a lot of duplicate briefings I don't believe that is still the case my understanding is it's not but nonetheless um there was redundancy elsewhere so what's already been two things particularly the full Council and the finance committee um also a little bit with um Board of Public Health as they take on violence prevention work but um primarily um the has already been said here policy decisions are something that the fall Council has expressed an interest in has demonstrated an interest in this Council and former councils so the the staff briefings that go to psrc also come here the full Council asks for quarterly reports for on Public Safety um when policy issues come up ad hoc like the body warn cameras being an example of of forming a task force to investigate that issue um and likewise the other was the finance committee so um when I went and looked back I we we've heard they have this budget oversight rule if you go back and you look over a Year's worth of agendas what you actually see on the agendas is their review of contracts that then go to the finance committee and their review of moving money that then goes to the finance committee uh looking around at other department ments and and their committees they typically don't take contracts or budget moves to their committees they just go to finance so this is kind of an anomaly and it's duplicative of the role that we have other other committees that already play thank you Elder Elder Field thank you mayor um for the record and for some context from my colleagues who don't serve on the committee we do have uh quite a pattern of this committee being canceled for lack of Quorum including during this term looking back in the um past meeting agendas and minutes page I'm seeing cancellations from May August and September of 23 and then again this year August we ended up having to go to fewer meetings and ultimately are in a place of the committee members having an intention of looking for more work and that it doesn't really materialize um and I certainly do appreciate the briefings that we receive from the agencies and an opportunity to ask questions and I also appreciate that we can do that here um so I don't plan to support the motion thank you thank you Alder Alder Knox for the second time um yeah just a few comments um uh I think one of the things about this committee is a lot of besides getting the reports a lot of it depends on referrals from me and and our colleagues and if we choose to go to task forces or things like that as opposed to referring it to the appropriate committee then that might have a lot to do with the amount of of work that a committee has an opportunity to perform so I think that's that's an issue again our our iterate that there will be many issues related to safety um school safety is probably one even and and given the complexity of what we deal with with the fire department and particularly the police department I think it warrants having some additional committee you know focus on those things before it gets to the council so we W have to debate everything at these long large Council meetings but um my biggest concern is this we're supposed to be a government that's based on participatory democracy and I think when we start with this particular Committee in particular we start um relegating that all to the council then you're are restricting opportunities for citizens to participate in their government and I think that's real that's a real critical important thing since they're the ones that experience a lot of the things that happen in our community what we're doing is saying we alers know best and then that relegates um residence to three minutes of fame of comments and then that's their extent of participating I think this is a bad precedent we're setting here particularly for this committee and a few other committees so I really would urge my colleagues to really rethink this allow the citizens to participate in their government have input into real input into their government and not take not look at ways to take that away only to reduce the uh work on staff thank you aler Alder RL thank you mayor and everyone for your giving consideration to this um I I would like the I guess the privilege to remind you that um in 2016 17 and 18 this Council dived in really deep into police policy reform and procedures and one of the things we did besides creating an ad hoc committee that you all probably know about was we created a president's workg group that came up that only met for a short period did and came up with uh uh 13 recommendations of which all of them you think about every day and not that the ad hoc committee didn't follow up but but the quarterly reports came out of that workg group The reviewing the psrc is that living up to his mission came out of that work group having a cares type program came out of that work group and um and just the office of the independent monitor came out of that as a recommend of that work group and and root cause analysis and so much more so I guess I feel like an attachment to it I I never wanted to serve on psrc it seemed like a more conservative body but it's the largest agency and there's many policy issues that could go before the psrc that won't have a committee that an alder serves on going forward and so the largest budget in the city and policy issues whether it's about you know accepting money from feds for you know positions or you know we even debated whether we accept those big vehicles at one point um tasers I mean all the things that our policy questions could go to to the psrc first and be a place for um experts and Community to engage before it comes to the C and I guess if you give up these these rights that you've given yourselves I you know like what are you saying that you don't the the quarterly reports are data they're not policy they're not like that's a the chief collecting all the information we want and it's great I'm not saying it's not but it's not a policy decision to hear a quarterly report and I I and the peob needs enough to get going on its own without adding more I mean if you thought it would be better just to extend it for a year I could consider that but I thought I believe that this agency should exist so I that's the motion I made I think it has a role if we give it um the the help that it needs thank Youk you Alder Alder Bennett for the second time yeah I'm just going to be brief I and then proceed to give a long statement but um I do feel also feel that attachment you know specifically to public safety issues like truly that's kind of why I'm literally saying sitting here right now and of course it evolved over time but um I think this is an issue that's not going away like We just C or I celebrate is a weirdest way to say honored there you go um Tony Robinson and his and his 10year anniversary of uh coming home and you know we had all of those ad hoc committees come out of that but I don't think that the city has truly identified how we want to the best way to continue dealing with public safety issues that are a continued issue we have pcob that's I don't know doing its own thing and psrc that has continued canceled meetings so it seems to me like continuing down this path is not the right way to go and I think this is one of those issues we need to take a step back and level set like how we can best address these issues in the way that all of our community can handle it and I don't think that we're going to be able to come to a resolve right here in this um in this on this vote and so I would suggest that for this particular and very important issue we take that in its own stride rather than trying to tackle it right now tonight thank you aler aler Curry thank you mayor I don't want to belabor the point but felt um compelled to speak um I feel empathy listening to some of the challenges from some of my peers who are appointed and know um that we we all ERS have seen cancellations it affects our agendas um often times we are making policy from the floor um but I do agree with Alder rumel and am going to be supporting the Amendments just because of the topic that we're talking about we talk about Public Safety often even listening to Alder Herrington McKenna's comments about the agendas being primarily focused on police when both police and fire have the top biggest budgets and largest departments um I'm also looking at the composition of the membership and four seats will become available this April and there's a vacancy and so um I feel it's not Bittersweet for me but Bittersweet in the term that I will not be continuing on but I would urge um members to do what they can too to uh get the word out about PSR psrc it's late um to community members because I think that there is a vast majority of the community that does not know that this committee exists the power that it holds and the power that their voice has in terms of Public Safety specifically for marginalized unrepresented and oppressed uh populations in the past um so just because of the point of it being more policy focused um looking at budgetary also having attended several of the last pcob meetings that membership is new and there's a lot of training to get up to speed on and so we're talking about things like Sops andus and what are the constitutional rights of our Public Safety um entities and so I think it's too important to bypass it now um but again encourage the body of policy makers to do the work um so that the work of committees can be follow the process I think of getting to council and Council being well informed and not creating policy on the spot and so for public safety for me it's it's too important right now to do away with and I think there's more uh work that can be done to um amplify the work that's of the P public safety Review Committee um to amplify the voices and needs of those who we say and we hear continuously um have been under served and over represented when it comes to public safety issues thanks thank you Elder I have no other ERS in the Q wishing to speak the motion before us is the rubble amendment to continue the psrc as a body um anticipating disagreement all those in favor of continuing psrc will say I those in opposed will say no as your name is called and the clerk will please call the RO Al there Evers no no field no no figuro Cole I go Rajan no yugar no no Harrington mckenny no no Knox I I Vladimir bur's excuse Madison i i Martinez Rutherford I I miad no ruml I I tishler no no verier I I Vier i i w Helia I think she's excused all right Bennett I I Conlin no no Curry I I Duncan I I it's 10 eyes and eight nose only 10 eyes um and requiring 11 to pass the amendment fails and what's back before us is the main motion Is there further discussion on the main motion motion wder ver thank you mayor just a parliamentary inquiry please is the main motion before us as recommended by CCE with their Amendment yes yes very good thank you yes so what's before us is um the motion as recommended by CCC aler Knox further discussion Aller you're muted yeah I had a similar question um I'll just is this just discussion yes all right I just go to discussion um I really do understand the need to um reduce the number of committees that we have and that kind of also reduce the number I I I know that because you have staff connected to all these committees that invariably adds to their workloads as well I particularly was concerned about the proposal hopefully regarding the Council on Aging and when I think about my participation on the Council of Aging I have to recognize the large and I guess each year the growing uh population of of seniors and how important this group is to to our city and um I would really be reluctant to see the important issues related to seniors to get subordinated in a larger group of of of community issues and not get the attention that they deserve I think just by the fact of the percentage of seniors in our our senior residents in our community wants some special attention and um and again I generally get back to I just think overall we're really having the opportunity to reduce the amount of participations from our our residents and I really that's something I feel real strongly about most of us at one time we weren't serving as alers what were we what were we doing to participate in in our government we were serving on committees and serving on commissions and serving on boards and making sure we're being the voices of different parts of unrecognized community members whether they're seniors persons of color people with disabilities what have you and I really think we need to do a real deep process of thinking about what kind of government do we want to have we always talk about encouraging people to participate on committees and commissions and getting the feedback as ERS we're challenged alone trying to get that feedback from our constituents but one way we get um participation from the great variety of skills and expertise of of average citizens in our community is through committee participation but in particular for the Aging who's going to be their voice when they're lumped in with other important issues like Youth and violence prevention and what have you it's difficult now and I know we don't have an un the budget but we really need to look at what populations deserve to have their own attention and and that get that taken away thank you thank you Elder I have no other alers in the queue wishing to speak the motion before us is to adopt um with the recommendations of ccec so anticipating disagreement all those in favor of adoption will say I those opposed no as your name is called and the clerk will please call the role all there Evers all I field I I figure all Cole I I go Rajan I I yugar I I Tim mckenny I Knox no no Vladimir burus is excuse Madison i i Martinez Rutherford I I mad I RL no no tishler I I ver I I viver I I Helia is excuse Bennett Conlin I I Curry I I Duncan I uh 17 eyes and two nose nope 15 15 eyes and two nose right with 15 eyes the motion passes and that will take us to item 58 um item 58 is legistar 8728 creating sections of the Madison General ordinances related to removal hearings to prescribe hearing procedures and consider removal of Alders from the common Council on item 58 president figural Cole a motion please move to adopt moved and seconded to adopt item 58 on item 58 are there questions for staff seeing none on item 58 is there discussion all Harington mckin thank you very much U Madam U mayor um I I Rise for discussion specifically for um this agenda item um and let me start um the common Council May modify or supersede any steps in the process established by the section only with an affirmative vote of 2third of the members of the common Council um cannot conflict with Wisconsin statutes any such Alternatives related to the conduct of a hearing shall ensure the due process rights of both the complaintant and the aler who is a subject of the complaintant as determined by the hearing um and I will stop there because uh my my first question is um it requires a 23 majority of the council it doesn't address what happens if there is a tie that's my first question the other is is that the complaint uh transmitted is transmitted to the mayor the common council president vice president Council uh common Council Office but not um and I didn't see the mayor's interaction not excuse me I didn't see the attorney's interaction in that at all uh since we have a City attorney and this is a very serious removal process I'd like to see the City attorney involved in this question and I'm going to continue um and with item number C it said the common Council shall determine by majority of all members the City attorney gets involved at the point of a hearing on the complaint um again what if there is a tie the City attorney should be informed along the process not at the end um with the formation of a hearing that's when the city attorney steps in um uh I had a question with item D the process of the hearing the hearing procedures the deliberations all of those are in sync so I don't have a question with that um uh what else did I have oh um the letter or email that was sent by a a constituent to all of the alers and it addressed the question of does this youer the rights of the district I won't read that because that went to all of the alers and so um that um constituent raised some very critical issues um related to the process of removing an older and um let me continue um it says a recommendation will be made from the floor by the executive committee and so with such an important item before us um this item came before the floor from the executive committee uh as a recommendation in the uh the the editor's note there is still Corrections the title creating section 2.37 of the MGO related to removal hearings to prescribe hearing procedures to send answer the term remove was taken off removal of an aler uh from the common Council and um there is a Ser this is a very serious um deliberation that we are uh undertaken and um I note that the file was created September uh um SE uh February of the 19th and it was on the agenda for the uh executive committee on 311 and is now before us um uh to make that decision um the common Council executive committee is in control there are nine members of the executive committee and this is a decision that will that bears discussion and why is this before us at this point I think that um uh having um this discussion is very critical we need to have those procedures in place I'm not against that but I just want to make sure that we have a full deliberation about what the content is and uh to have it before the executive committee on uh a meeting that started at 4:30 and then have it before the council at 6:30 does not allow us enough time to really unpack this in terms of future considerations and once we approve this it would take a 2/3 majority majority to unwrap it and I think that we're headed in the right direction we do need to have a procedure for a removing an officer uh um an alder but I think that um we need to really have a discussion to make sure that we've looked at it and examined it and to have a full proposal that we can bring before the body thank you aler um I just want to clarify were those questions for staff or just laying out the issues of concern I'm just laying out the issues that I thank you Alder uh Alder [Music] Knox are we still in questions for staff well no the Alder was in discussion we pass that are we are we but Madame mayor are we we we are we had moved past questions for staff into discussion but if you you would entertain I I would entertain thank you I appreciate you um accommodating me and my question is for attorney H go ahead so can you describe currently what are the particular avenues for removal of an alder uh sure thank you all there uh really two um under the statutes which this ordinance flushes out in more detail there can be a hearing in front of the council the council can vote then by a 3/4 vote to remove an alder if they find cause the only other way to remove an alder is by recall election which requires a petition of the electors of the district I believe it's 20 equal to 25% of the voters in the last uh General last November election and then there's a recall election and the and the voters decide okay so did you describe two scenarios or three two two two right okay and so can you kind of describe what impact this particular um um change would have is it just describing a procedure to do the first part of having a hearing for the council yes uh exactly Alder I think this ordinance provides uh significantly more detail than the statute does in as far as laying out a process for the council to follow um if a complaint is received um and so that that includes you know what happens with the complaint where it's filed how it gets processed how it comes to the council just the the details of the process um all the way through uh you know um retaining a hearing examiner conducting the hearing uh what the order of the questioning is uh the discussion by the council and ultimately um a v of the council okay my other question is would this with these procedures incur some additional cost in terms of I don't know if it would be legal representation or things like that can you tell us what the potential impact that would be sure uh the the cost would be the same is what the process would be under the statute as I said this is just a more specific procedure than is laid out in the statutes but the statutes um contemplate uh there can be a hearing officer hearing examiner retained uh uh also a stenographer because it's required that uh transcript um be produced for possible Court review um those are all costs that are assumed by the city unless the council determines that essentially the complaint was filed um in bad faith and then the council can charge the complaintant with those costs okay and I guess I don't know if you can answer this last question maybe it's for finance or something so where would these costs who's what budget area would these costs come from maybe that's for finance or something definitely um we probably would have to determine where those costs would be paid if they were not budgeted whether they would be um charged with the account or the attorney's office um but that would be a process we would look at throughout the year as a part of the uh projections that we do throughout the year and consult with the finance committee on that if if additional funding is needed so currently we wouldn't know if it would come from the Council budget the mayor's budget or wherever that's correct as you may also be aware we also budget a contingent Reserve each year to address any sort of unforeseen costs and um funding can be appropriated by the council from that okay thank you those are my questions Madame mayor thank you thank you for thank you for indulge in me absolutely other mad questions Andor discussion um I wanted to add to the uh Amendment um of the ordinance you have an amendment Al there yes okay all right um it'll be uh retroactive complaint prohibited no complaint for removal under this section shall be based upon reference conduct actions or allegations that occurred prior to alers most recent reelection complaints must be uh limited solely to events or conduct that took place after the commence of the current term due process Assurance all removal proceedings initiated under this section so adhere to the following due process standard timely notice prompt and clear notice of any complaint and scheduled hearing right to councel the opportunity to obtain legal representation and fully participa in proceedings impartial hearing an unbiased process where the evidence is presented contested and evaluated fairly and uh electoral mandate consideration uh recognition that reelection uh reflects Public public confidence and only conduct occurring after reelection is subject to review and I'm sorry Al could it firstly you you need to send that language to the clerk and to your colleagues all right um and secondly can you specify where you're proposing to insert that language it could be at the very end just you you need to specify where you're proposing to insert it at the very beginning at the beginning make it 7A a and so a will so 7 a will be retroactive complaint prohibited then B will be do process Assurance then C will be effective removal vote and that will go under 7 a so the current way it has it right now so you're proposing to and I'm sorry I don't have it in front of me but you're proposing to add a a new Clause as 7A a new 7B yes maneter and then renumber the rest yes may I can send it to all alers right now okay so so you would propose a new seven with each of these Clauses being the appropriate letter yes Madam mayor okay um so that's the amendment is there a second for discussion Al Harington mckin will second for discussion purposes um Alder Mii do wish to speak to the amendment yes well we know how since uh March of 2024 that I've been asked to step down and remove it from office so this statement that I'm giving so my re-election was a strong endorsement from the community of my record and dedication to Public Service any mo removal process must be due process which means that any complaint should be only appli to actions taken after most recent reelection retroactive applying allegations from before or election undermines both the Integrity of the democratic system and the trust of Voters that have placed in the elected officials if the common Council uh president truly believes this process was necessary she had multiple opportunities to raise it whether it's 2021 when I was first sworn to seat or 22 when she endorsed my opponent Instead This ordinance is now being pushed forward after I secured 66% of the votes raising serious concerns about our political political motivations rather than genuine accountability since March 2024 I've observed efforts behind closed doors between the common council president and the City attorney to draft an ordinance that disregards fundamental principles of due process elevating Authority without ensuring fa fairness sets a dangerous precedent the essence of justice is not in who holds power but how the power is applied equality partially and in line with our legal and ethic standards I remain committed to serving this community with Integrity I urge my colleagues to upold the principles of fairness and due process ensuring that our decisions reflect Justice rather than Pol itical maneuvering this trust placed in Us by the voters must always come from personal or political interest thank you Al the City attorney reminds me that uh ordinance changes do have to be reviewed by the City attorney have you run this language past a City attorney no you're uh no if if at 6:30 that be if they met behind closed doors to come up with this and it's before the body to vote on I think this is the right place you you just need to send it to the City attorney aler okay which you could have done at any point during this meeting and if you would please also send it to the clerk at n perz at cityofmadison.com so she can have it for the record what's it called m n Perez and then to your colleagues as well all right thank you thank you we'll make sure that the city attorney's received it and can review it uh I don't have any aler Duncan just call the question uh the question's been called I'm not sure that's necessary as there's nobody else in the queue but I do want the City attorney to have an opportunity to read the language at least before you all vote on it do you have it not yet so we'll we'll stand in formal might be more efficient for The Elder to bring his computer over to you at this point okay Al heing to mckenny so um for clarification Madame um mayor are we resending the call for the question where are we in terms of we're we're standing in formal while the City attorney reviews the proposed ordinance Amendment because all ordinance change language has to be reviewed by the City attorney so there's no business that's happening at the moment no okay while we stand in formal I'll just remind the body that it's polite to provide proposed amendments to the body and to the relevant staff as early as possible [Music] please so thank you aler I have reviewed it I mean there isn't anything legally incorrect about including this as an amendment I would just note that the due process Assurance I believe all of those elements are already included in the procedures outlined in the existing ordinance you can certainly include this language if you like to reinforce that with the exception of the Electoral mandate consideration language I don't think that would is part of the existing ordinance thank you City attorney all right so uh the question before us is the miad amendment to add language which I hope has hit your inboxes at the moment um anticipate some disagreement all those in favor of the amendment will say I those opposed no as your name is called then the clerk will please call the RO all there others no no Fe no no figurella Cole no no gavender Rajan no no hugar Herington mckenny Herington mckenny right I'll come back all the knocks yeah I'm not I I don't see it right now so pass on me for right now okay you want me to come back to you all right yeah I'm trying find it Vladimir bur's excuse Madison no no Martinez Rutherford no no miad yes I RL sorry abstain abstain tishler was that no no ver no no Vier no no Helia is excused Bennett no no Conlin no no Curry no no Duncan no yugar oh he's not here Harington McKinny abstain and Al knocks yeah I'm going to abstain because I just having problems getting back into my email okay that's one I 13 O's OBS with one eye the amendment fails we're back to the main motion which is to adopt Is there further discussion seeing no further discussion on the motion uh Alder Herring to mckin um so I just want to put before the body that um we just reviewed this um at the uh executive committee meeting that happened at 4:30 and now it's on the agenda for approval at the 6:30 common council meeting this is this is critical and we really do need the opportunity to make sure that we have the strongest uh language that can be implemented um so that we can pass this I think that um it is not ready for a full uh discussion and vote by the council at this point I think that it either should be um so I'm I'm going to make a I'm going to make an amendment that this be placed on file without prejudice uh aler Harington mckin will move to place on file without prejudice is there a second moved and seconded to place on file without prejudice and now there's discussion Alder gajan I'm just going to very quickly say just like every other ordinance resolution whatever um this was introduced at least two weeks ago everyone in this room and the public has had access to review this text at least two weeks ago we have been talking about the code of conduct for at least a year so if you were not prepared about this big thing that's been in the news for forever I don't know really what to say that's all thank you thank you Elder aler Evers thank you mayor um yeah and we've had we knew we were voting on this tonight and we get the agendas in advance of the meeting we have obligations as elected officials to read up on this the suggestion that we're only looking at this tonight and considering this tonight doesn't do justice to who we are as alers um and to suggest as as aasi has that this is targeted toward him it's it's not accurate this is to address uh the need for having more clear uh more clearer language with what it takes to remove in order this is not targeted legislation to any particular person um and I find it offensive that the suggesting that it is um but for the record Behavior Uh most recently that was in question by Alter Mii occurred while he was also in office not just prior to the time of his election so that is not ger to the discussion here we are not directing this towards any particular alar but because we went through this particular situation which by the way nobody was voted off this we had a procedure to remove an alar we did not implement it in censoring Alder miat which was done through the code of conduct and ethics code that we currently have in place we abided by the language and the instructions in our ordinance so I I find it offensive to suggest that we're not going about our business the right way that we haven't had enough time to look at it so folks let's move on let's see let's acknowledge that this is something that we need to add to our ordinance in future situations if God forbid it ever becomes necessary to remove an alter from this body thank you thank you Elder Elder Curry thank you mayor um this was said in CCE but I do not believe it's been said here tonight I apologize if it has and I missed it um we do not have a process so at any time any Resident could make a complaint against any one of us this is codifying a process that can be changed it can be Revisited it can be revised we've had a period of more than weeks where the our count common council president uh introduced it to us with the chief of staff so if we have been paying attention this has been before us for quite some time so again it is codifying a process because if someone filed a complaint tonight against what I'm saying right now there is no process for staff to follow there is no Clarity so this is the start of creating that thank you thank you aler aler figuro thank you mayor I'm not going to add anything else that have already been said except that this document was presented to CCC in November 26 2024 so this student just was born this a few hours ago we discussed it back in also in January 2025 and I believe one more time before today so that's four times before it get to this body so as my colleagues I mentioned before not only you had two weeks of you had um two weeks from the introduction to review the document we actually the entire body was welcome as C cc to have these discussions since last year in November 26 so I just want to put those dates out for the record that this is not a new thing this is being going around for quite some time thank you thank you aler Al miad since my name is mentioned let me just say this and let me be clear everybody here knows what I went through since March of last year asked to step down asked to resign ask all in the papers but yet I went through the due process you guys hiring attorney $188,000 of taxpayers money another 13,000 of my own money that's how much we get this is relevant you've got a chance to censor and do all what you did so let me have my point Alder you need to address the chair Alder so I mean Madame mayor can I still speak or is it get to relevance pretty quickly aler so basically what I'm saying Madame mayor I went through a due process when you the city hired an independent investigator $188,000 and said I did not violate it the same code of conduct that we instituted Al there so is not relevant the the procedures against you were under APM 3-5 we're talking about something completely different here I just don't want the next person that sits in my seat to go through what I went through and next minut or later we sit here and say well let's retroactive because he back in the day he did something that was that was wrong we should have the due process that's what our court system this there's more depressing issues housing this city should be talking about lobing lobbying this the government in order to get uh uh people ta instead of getting tax out of their homes there's body cameras that we're not even talking about there's other oppressing issues and you guys are sitting there talking about me and spending all this tax dollar money Al there you you do need to stay relevant to the issue before us which is establishing a process mad Madame mayor I'm just saying where is the due process where's the justice and having the next person that come forth going through what he I went through but it you know and if he didn't have if I did not have the resiliency of serving my constituents I would not be in this chair right now so I'm just asking if we're talking about due uh process Madam mayor I'm just asking that let let the court system do what it's supposed to do and let us be about City business you say that all the time mayor let's be about City business thank you Alder aler questions called there's two alers in the queue who could defer uh is there an objection to moving to the question seeing no objection to moving to the question the question before us is to adopt item 58 anticipating disagreement Alder Haring to mckin yes I had so um the question's been called all the Harington mcken I was in the queue to to this is where I was before and so um when you asked was there any objection calling for the question rather than uh me shouting out out I was in the queue because you object to calling the question Alder yes so we'll move to a vote on the call of the question I'm so tempted to do a Voice vote but none of y'all have done that before uh so is there objection to is there objection to recording an unanimous vote in favor of uh calling the question I'll say it again is there objection to recording a unanimous vote in favor of calling the question objection is there any further objection seeing none Alder Harrington mcken will be recorded as uh voting no on the call of the question the question is called the item that's before us is adoption of item 58 anticipating disagreement all those in favor I those imposed no as your name is called and the clerk will please call the role the motion is to place on file right now no we've dispensed with the motion to place on file the is to adopt the motion before us is to adopt item 58 all those in favor I those opposed no and the clerk will we did in fact vote on placing on file did we not I don't think so oh okay sorry I'm wrong we uh we voted on the amendment so so I'm sorry yes the motion before us is to place on file without prejudice the motion to place on file is withdrawn is there objection to withdrawing seeing no objection to the withdrawal the motion before us is to adopt okay sorry about that that one's on me my fault bad notes everybody clear what we're voting on all right the motion is to adopt the clerk will please call the rooll all thereover I I field I figuro Cole i i g Rajan i i yugar i Harrington mckenny pass Knox I I lar B's excuse Madison i i Martinez Rutherford I I miad no ruml Hi I tishler hi I verier I I viver I I Helia excuse Bennett I I klin hi I Curry I I Duncan I Alder and Tim mckenny I all right 17 eyes one no 17 eyes the motion passes and I'll apologize again particularly to Alder hering to mckenny for um taking us on to the wrong motion and thank you for um being gracious about that um all right so what is then before us is item 77 we took up 76 with item 20 so that's been dispensed with so what's before us is item 77 which is legistar 86824 a substitute amending the report of the lamp house block ad Hawk plan committee and on the sub subtitute adopt with the recommendations moved and seconded to adopt with recommendations on item 77 are there questions for staff seeing no questions for staff on item 77 is there discussion seeing no discussion on item 77 Alder ruml we can't let this one go without some discussion right um you could I appreciate uh the the work that has been done with the substitute um I shared with the the sponsors I had some concerns about the whereas clause and the substitute um I have to dig it out to tell you which one but um the whereas some of the reports recommendations regarding preserving views from the lamp house and public views to the lamp house could present challenges for future Redevelopment of adjacent parcels and providing some SE flexibility in these recommendations May support new construction while preserving the lamp house site um I really just think that we shouldn't have an in our in our policy something that really helps a specific developer it almost looks like a quid proquo and I hope that I know that's not the intent and I understand this developer certainly um has surrounded by this property and owns the property itself but I still think that the main point of this resolution and the substitute is that we have conflict between our zoning code and an adopted plan and while I could argue that if we really wanted to we could amend a lot of adopted plans because there's a lot of conflicts but if that's what if the body wants to go forward with this amendment let's stay focused on the main point which is trying to reduce the conflict for clarity and um I'm hoping that the sponsors will hopefully respond and if not I may thank you thank you Alder I Alder Bennett I was really hoping this would just slide through but um because it hasn't and because you know I'm one of the sponsors um this is one of those things it's in the district it's been around for a while a very long time it's very historic love the lamp house and Frank lyd wri um and I think uh after I spoke with the District Two aler former District Two aler Patrick heck about this what our conversation when in our within our conversation he said I think this comes down to like times are changing and at the end of the day like the Council made a vote in 2021 the plan doesn't align with that vote and now here we are in 2025 and developers putting something forward and can't get it past staff approvals and that's just how this process works kind of like how I was talking about last meeting we make it so hard to build housing and we have a local developer here that is definitely build a lot of money into just literally creating plans to put in front of the city for it to be rejected which increases housing costs in the granch scheme of things but overall I think that we could amend the language and the substitute to heck and at the end of the day like if the results the same the plan is refle reflects the zoning code that's the main point so if you want to amend it I'm fine with that but also I don't really see the point of it I kind of It kind of seems trivial and I don't see I don't disagree with the last whereas clause about um how the lamp house um report as is kind of does halt Redevelopment it's not for a specific developer this impacts several properties in my district actually within just the adjacent properties potential Redevelopment of the Capitol North garage or um if or if um we go beyond that there's and all the properties out to the Lakes would be impacted um so I don't think this is just a quid pro quo for a singular singular developer I think this is just a factual statement of what the impact is so I that that's all I have to really say I'm really glad that we are able to take this item up and honestly maybe we should have a procedure for how to address situations where our adopted plans don't align with more recent Council votes so that's that's all I have to say I think this is just aligning ourselves with aligning the plans with what we've already decided that questions been asked and answered I'm sorry it's a it's a report that's adopted in the downtown plan thank you thank you Alder alderfield thank you mayor um I just wanted to share a little bit of background on how we arrived at the substitute because prior to that the proposal had been to make line item edits um to the report to alter the recommendations and make them more amenable or flexible to enable development and that notion received um some I'd say kind of critical feedback at the historic landmarks Commission in Urban Design um which I appreciated hearing that feedback and one of the landmarks Commissioners had made the recommendation that this be done in a different way such as by um adding an appendix so that is what um Bennett and I had talked to staff about and what I moved in the plan commission meeting last week um I agree that the resolving the conflict to provide that Clarity is the most important part of what we're trying to do here in my opinion um as to how we do that um if there if folks want to propose changes we can discuss those but I think the conflict between recommendations in an adopted report that have and are relevant in land use discussions um are pretty important to reconcile with the zoning code thank you thank you Elder I have no other alers in the queue wishing to speak so so the motion is to adopt item 77 is there any objection to recording unanimous vote in favor seeing no objection we'll record a unanimous vote in favor of item 77 and move on to item 78 uh which is lar 85327 amending sections of the mass and general ordinances to modify the police civilian oversight board appointment process president call a motion to refer okay move to referral thank you moved and seconded to refer back to the pcob yeah it was in the agenda already that was a mistake it it we did exclude it from the consent agenda so we do need to dispense with it now okay so I had to look at the dates huh yeah I understand got it yes so yeah not going to does anyone have the days in front of them can you please tell me 416 416 for pcob and back to councel 71 71 2025 thank you right so the motion is to re-refer item 78 to the pcob on 416 and back to Council on 71 uh on the motion aler Herington mckenny um I have a question and would you let me know when I can you can ask it now okay um I'd like to know if uh the Department of Civil Rights was involved in the um in these deliberations uh Alder h m I don't know the answer to that but with the referral there is ample time for them to be involved can I add that one um you can't refer something to to a department um but you can certainly request staff to take a look at the item okay I request the staff to take a look at the item thank you Elder uh the motion is to re-refer Is there further discussion seeing none is there any objection to recording a unanimous vote in favor of re-referral seeing no objection the item is re-referred and that takes us to item 105 5 which is legistar 87483 adopting the updated elected and appointed official code of ethical conduct um this item is on for introduction um so the appropriate motion president figural Cole is to um introduce with the recommended referrals move to introduce with the recommended referrals moved and seconded to introduce with the recommended referrals those referrals are noted on the consent agenda document on item 105 is there discussion or questions Alder Herring to mckenny my question is is that if the um Alder who wanted to add additional recommendations could just uh share with us why these additional recommendations or referrals thank you Alder Alder Duncan thank you mayor um so the reason that I am putting in these additional referrals um I think that we as a body need to be deliberate when we're looking at this code of conduct because not only is it affecting us but it also affects all the appointed officials and so the reason that I'm having it sent originally I had I think 49 committees but I um took it down to these 12 to get a sample um with the understanding that the other bcc's will also have an opportunity to provide feedback to us um because I think that with them being the bodies that are going to be held responsible and have to abide by this code of ethical conduct that they should actually have a seat at the table to be able to have conversations about revisions edits or even possibly things that we as a body have not even thought about um to be able to be put into this code of uh ethical conduct I know that it wasn't done when this was originally created um and I think that in my opinion that's what it should have been uh and that's why I'm putting this forward now for these committees [Music] thank you Alder I have no other alers in the queue wishing to speak um the motion is to introduce with referrals is there any objection to recording unanimous vote in favor Alder Ginder Rajan I object or place me as a no we'll note Al there given Rajan is voting no is there any further objection Alder Hing mcken will be voted as no as voting no anything further if not uh the introduction passes with two NOS that will be noted in the record and that brings us to the end of our agenda aler Evers to adjourn moved in seconded to adjourn is there any objection to recording unanimous vote in favor seeing no objection We Stand adjourned have a good night everyone oh no e