Based on the context provided and the dialogue within the transcript, here is the formatted version with speaker names identified. **Note on Planning Commission Members:** While the list provided includes Brian Douglas and Isaac Naatz, the roll call also includes members named "Giesme" and "Hema." These are identified as Planning Commission Members based on the context of the meeting. *** [5:20] **Brian Douglas (Planning Commission Member/Chair)**: the first two welcome everyone welcome everyone to the uh December 12th uh Planning Commission meeting uh first would be a roll call guess me here Johnson here Emma here Montgomery here everyone's here uh is there approval of the agenda [5:44] **Matt Montgomery (Mayor)**: so moved [5:46] **Diane Johnson (Council Member)**: second [5:48] **Brian Douglas**: uh moved by Montgomery second by Johnson to approve the agenda any further discussion all in favor aye O's motion carries uh can we have approval of the minutes from August 15th and November 14th [6:03] **Planning Commission Member Hema**: second [6:05] **Brian Douglas**: uh Motion in a second motion by Montgomery second by Hema to approve the minutes of August 15th and November 14th is there any discussion all in favor aye uh next item on the agenda is public input there is none uh Mark was going to are you going to talk on the uh I'm curing yeah okay so so you want to open the pool again [6:37] **Mark Mason (Resident)**: I want to talk about the uh section into my plot properties whatever that's a problem okay [6:42] **Brian Douglas**: that would be during the public hearing okay that's now okay no oh okay so we're going to dispense with [6:51] **Brian Douglas**: public input uh the next thing on the agenda is the public hearing so um the public hearing is going to talk about rezone and preliminary platform jablonski on towering blocks a public hearing is scheduled to request by Greg jabloski for preliminary Platt it's rezoned for towering Bluffs zoning is currently R2 single-family residential district and re idential estate District the PID is for the tower and buff preliminary Platt are 525-4014 five to five four thousand ten five two [7:32] **Brian Douglas**: five four thousand sixteen five two five four thousand thirteen and five two five four thousand fifteen Diane you wanna open this up [7:37] **Diane Johnson**: yes thank you we're proposing to zone of planned unit development Zoning for this development due to the varying sizes and styles of lots and homes that will be encompassed throughout this plant will be developed in two phases phase one will be 22 lots and Phase 2 will be 52 Lots the total Site Area is 118.5 Acres these are the zoning issues that need to be discussed at the Planning Commission in regards to the taurine blessed [8:23] **Diane Johnson**: preliminary plot we are proposing the zone of planned unit development zoning which is a mixed use of planned unit development that may include land uses from a variety of zoning districts and must utilize the Pud zoning District this PUD zoning may include an ask for side setbacks and a sidewalk Trail option condition and we're going to discuss those next we're going to start with the setbacks five foot side setbacks are being proposed the minimum side setbacks in most residential districts are currently 10 feet with the exception of five feet and a garage side only when accommodating an attached garage staff is going to recommend the five foot setbacks to be approved as a PUD condition also proposed are sidewalks on one side [9:11] **Diane Johnson**: only of residential streets and certain designated areas intermixed with trails and other designated areas bill will detail those for us after my report but to expand on that code 151109 30 sidewalks calls for concrete sidewalks four inches thick and five feet wide in most residential areas in addition it asks that sidewalks be installed prior to the installation of the tombness wear course and the developer notify all lot purchase purchasers of sidewalk construction plans the mix and proposed Trails would eventually extend throughout the development and potentially connect to adjacent existing trails to provide safer walking routes with more [9:56] **Diane Johnson**: flexibility for biking Etc the city administrator is recommending approval of the proposed sidewalk and Trail plan combination and lastly we have an apartment complex that is being proposed in the touring Bluffs development due to being in the early preliminary stages of planning details on the design are very limited to date we're going to propose an R4 high density residential district plan unit development process for this apartment complex you know where this could change depending but right now it is the the use that would fit seems to fit the best full details will be provided for the apartment complex when the final plot is ready for Planning Commission and city council consideration that will be a [10:42] **Diane Johnson**: second meeting so you will have a second opportunity to comment on these plans and Bill [10:47] **Bill Angerman (City Engineer)**: all right I'm going to connect my laptops I think some of the things that I have will be easier to be shown so I'm going to move to the podium [11:21] **Bill Angerman**: I think I have to shut this one off okay [11:37] **Bill Angerman**: there we go you guys wanted to see a picture of my family right now the interesting part is is that the runoff Pond yes yeah by the way all the water is going to be crystal clear so that's interesting that's Lake Michigan that was Door County so good uh good one Matt so okay so the engineering review so there's an engineering review letter in your packet typically we have engineer reviewers we don't go through all the items uh but obviously if somebody wanted to ask a question definitely be prepared to do that so uh what I wanted to highlight were a couple of the items here so uh first one I'm going to refer to as item [12:22] **Bill Angerman**: number two and that is due to the size of this development there are some mandatory thresholds that the state dictates uh that you have to do a formal environmental assessment process so the formal environmental assessment was completed way back in 2003 and that still stands so that's still that's still relevant and that's still uh good that one thing that staff does is we check to see if there's something significantly changes or a reason that that process should be repeated and the answer to that is no so I want to highlight that so that full environmental assessment worksheet document we do have on file so if someone would ask for that we have completed that process okay on item number four uh we also in [13:07] **Bill Angerman**: addition to City approval we also have County approval because we are planning adjacent to County Road 25 Goodhue County also has approval now what they would have approval into would be the access onto their County Road and any drainage that drains in there right away so we haven't had County Engineers been copied in what we've done and Mr jablonski and his engineer I either have or will be reaching out to the county as well okay item number five wanted to call that one out and and I'm gonna I'm gonna flip back and forth a little bit so what we're talking about is the water tower site so I'm just zooming in on their plan this is the city-owned property right here there's the water tower in the middle the property line for the water [13:54] **Bill Angerman**: tower is where my hand there is going and the dark lines dark lines signify grading so they're going to be grading onto the city's uh site basically to blend that into that hill so they're going to be changing that slope so I want to make you aware of that that would be a condition of the approval but City staff is recommending that the developer be allowed to grade onto the water tower site okay again we're going to jump around a little bit so as Diane mentioned item number seven concerns sidewalks as Diane mentioned your sidewalk ordinance uh does say that you have to have sidewalks on one side of all streets on the sidewalk ordinance does not cover some things that we sometimes will see [14:39] **Bill Angerman**: to cul-de-sacs you know need to have sidewalks or not some cities do not have them on cul-de-sacs your ordinance does not I think actually it's just blanket you have them everywhere and it does not address if you have Trails or if you have connecting to other neighborhoods we have a few unique circumstances here so Diane and Neil and I met with Greg and his engineer and I'm going to try to get to that page here we'll maybe use this one so meaning that in this subdivision we have this apartment but we also have Limestone up over here into the Northwest you know really we think it would benefit the city to have a trail connection to Limestone to the apartments uh well that's not covered you know under your ordinance so by your [15:25] **Bill Angerman**: ordinance they only have to have it on streets and this is a you know private drive going in here well we think there are some positivity that we should connect that so so what we what we're proposing or what the developer proposed and we think is reasonable ultimately this is really a meal you know item to recommend so Neil's recommending that though I'll be honest I I think it's a reasonable item and that is that Northwest up here and I'm sorry it's a little bit off the plat so the end of limestone to the apartment building to this cul-de-sac so if you can follow my line my hand is going to be a sidewalk by the way the sidewalk may not go here we just said Limestone Apartments cul-de-sacs whether they go this way and down or round through then a sidewalk would follow this call the sack here on one side then the main thoroughfare here [16:13] **Bill Angerman**: this Main Road and then down in Decorah here at the bottom this is Decora there would be a trail on the east side so long as we talked about as we said you know one of the things that would really be a benefit is that we had a trail from County Road 25 all the way to Highway 19. [16:31] **Bill Angerman**: so to the school and you know that would be you know going above and beyond the sidewalk so we thought well it would seem to me that that would be a reasonable compromise that the developer put this Trail in on the east side and then continued it through their development one side of Street B which it'll have a new it'll have a different name in the final plat and then connecting the apartment complex and Limestone so that's the the sidewalk path hopefully that's not uh too confusing there so in essence what would happen is there would be no sidewalk on this short cul-de-sac and there'd be no sidewalk on this longer cul-de-sac now one of the things we did talk about just kind of fill in a little more we talked about okay well these roads are [17:16] **Bill Angerman**: kind of steep our sidewalks you know good on these Lots the developer had made the dis you know discussions with us is that uh you know we're trying to make lots more affordable you know sidewalk costs are a big item typically we don't look at costs you know when we look at okay is it a good idea connectivity Etc but he did make that point and obviously Mr jaboski can make his own points but I'm just kind of relaying what what we had heard in our in our discussions at the staff level so that's really what I wanted to highlight on on item number seven and particularly that trail going through uh you know granted it'll take a long time for that to happen and there will be actually other property owners involved you know to to get all the way to the to the road but I'm sorry all the way to 19 in the north end but we really think that's that's a good thing for the city long [18:03] **Bill Angerman**: term oops okay a couple other items uh wanted to highlight as I want to hide item 11. uh one of the things that we talked about is the the two roads on the West Side Limestone and high point so both those roads when the eaw was submitted in 2003 and previous plans of this preliminary plant do not have those roads being connected okay so those roads have been shown uh you know being called this or I'm sorry nothing on the end so particularly on Limestone there's a temporary turnaround that's kind of put in there now it's off the property actually goes on the property owner's property and we we think from the staff level that really there needs to be a better solution and what Neil and I have [18:50] **Bill Angerman**: talked about we've talked with Dan a little bit there really should be a cul-de-sac's going to be hard to build there it's because of the grades you know on that South one where there's a big steep Hiller and it drops off but we should at least give the city the ability to if probably not put a call site at least put we call a hammerhead or a t you know t-turn so what uh Mr jablonski has uh you know agreed to and by the way everything when I say agree I mean subject to you know city council approval is that he would provide a 100 by 100 foot square at the end of both of these roads so in the future if the city desired because that really would probably fall on the city to put some kind of turnaround in we'd at least have the land to do that so we thought was a fair compromise for Mr jablonski [19:36] **Bill Angerman**: okay and the last one kind of a longer one here there's an existing road on the Northern side of the property the mayor lives up there as well uh the future of Spring Garden Road if any of a you know I think someone Diane called it a Goat Trail in our in our in our meeting but this isn't so much Mr jablonsky's problem but you know in future phases you know he'll be plotting up against that we really need to kind of think through okay what is the future of that road does it stay do we just get rid of it you know formally get rid of it uh you know uh Mr altoff who lives there you know really that's part of his access so we really should keep that open until at least this development is built because it'll be things tore up but once this development [20:21] **Bill Angerman**: is built and and there's access provided you know to the southeast really that road could go away but again that's not necessarily Mr jablonsky's issue but it's a bigger city issue and it does it will impact how we would plant that next phase so again we wanted to point that out and then make sure the Planning Commission and Council knew at least that the staff level we were we were considering that and contemplating you know what's what's the best answer so uh those were the main engineering items so uh ultimately the recommendation is to approve this and then uh with conditional upon these items being addressed in the final plat and then you know there will be other additional engineering items as well that will be taken care of so I'll pause there and I think actually [21:08] **Bill Angerman**: unless there's any questions for me on what this was I'll sit down and then I can bring these Maps up if people have comments not sure if my mouse I might leave this just what I might do is I'll point this I think I can run this from my spot over there see how how far this reaches so okay thank you thank you [21:35] **Brian Douglas**: okay with that um there's no other comments from Dan I'm going to open the public hearing so as of right now I'm going to open the public hearing to anybody that would wish to speak to this preliminary plaque for the uh towering Bluffs is that right [21:54] **Brian Douglas**: towering Bluffs Edition [22:02] **Mark Mason**: and I have the overhead turn back on sorry to disturb your laptop no that's all right but I think what I'm going to say makes more sense if we put a another map on it here bigger than yours that's right [22:25] **Mark Mason**: it'll come back it made a beep [22:43] **Mark Mason**: [Applause] okay great I'm Mark Mason I live at 128 Grove Street North in Cannon Falls which is the area right up behind the cemetery and also referred to as the manly Edition which was developed in 1986 my wife and I were some of the first purchasers of the property up there so we've been up there for almost 35 years now we built our house there and I'm here tonight not to say I don't want to have a Housing Development or anything like that basically up behind my house because I really do I think that it's great it's going to be good for Cannon Falls to get some more buildable Lots etc etc so that's not what I'm here to talk about what I'm [23:28] **Mark Mason**: here to talk about tonight is uh briefly and I'm not going to go into any details unless you folks have questions that you want uh to ask is we have a drainage problem coming from the property that's in question and particularly the section that ends in 016 that abuts my our property completely now I was hoping that this would show up a little bit better but essentially this is my house right here this is Grove Street that comes in the cemeteries over here and of course this is the property that we're talking about so as you can see I share to two common borders and then I have three neighbor lots that contain that also [24:15] **Mark Mason**: share this property and we are the three or the four Lots because I own both both of the 128 and 124. um we've had this problem for the 35 years and the city has stepped in and tried to do some patching and so on and so forth to stop the problem but we're not 100 successful and so I looked at took a look at this when I first got got the letter on it that it was happening and said this is a great opportunity for the city to work with the developer to get this drainage thing straightened out uh a simple and I'm not a civil engineer but I do understand gravity and basically what's happening right now is from approximately this point here right now in the in the Farmland it's a very high point it's about 200 250 feet I'm yards I [25:03] **Mark Mason**: guess basically from the property line here which is grass and then of course all the trees and so forth right now what happens is this High spot drains to the North or towards our property uh can we do something to turn that drainage to the South you know whether it's a valley in here that goes into the Culvert the storms through it I don't know I'm not I'm not the expert in that area I'm just saying can we fix it put it in writing to you know to the Planning Commission let's please put it in writing let's please get to have the city council put it in writing so that there's no misunderstandings that this is what we want to have done because if it doesn't happen five years from now or ten years from [25:48] **Mark Mason**: now when this all comes together the city is going to be paying more money to fix something that we could fix now so that's where I stand simply and saying can we do something will you folks please take that into consideration and will you please try to put it in some kind of verbiage in the agreement so that everybody understands what's going on okay any questions for me on the details of all this you all shook your head like you know what's been going on up there you know we've talked about this before I believe [26:22] **Bill Angerman**: yeah we have if I if I may uh so I have been tasked by the city administrator actually when I say hi Dan Howard and I have been tasked uh with coming up with the proposed Solutions we've had a few meetings here uh to [26:34] **Bill Angerman**: answer the first question can it the drainage be directed to the South the answer would be no but we're looking at options to either divert to the west through city-owned property or recently owned sleep property or to the east so uh the our direction from Neil is to come up with something over the winter now ultimately I don't know if that'll be constructed next year or not that that's not we're not to that point yet but uh but we are working on a solution [27:06] **Mark Mason**: okay I mean I'm just thinking that this if this is like most developments there's going to be a lot of dirt moved around up there before this is done so you know we can Drake Danny they train each ditches we can you know put you know whatever you guys want to do but make it work please [27:18] **Diane Johnson**: yes yep we addressed that um during one of these [27:21] **Diane Johnson**: discussions I I believe quite a while ago that once we start working on this development everything will be a little easy to work with and hopefully to fix that problem yep we're gonna we're gonna keep looking at that [27:42] **Isaac Naatz (Planning Commission Member)**: where did you think you where else did you think you directed to the to the east [27:48] **Bill Angerman**: to the east yeah the East makes more sense yeah doesn't it geographically there's yeah the challenge the challenge with well the to the east is the city does not own all the property to the West we do so that's what we're working through right now so okay [28:13] **Brian Douglas**: is there uh is there anybody else wishing to address the Planning Commission [28:19] **Brian Douglas**: second call anybody wishing to address the Planning Commission third and final call is there anybody wishing to address the Planning Commission on this issue if not I'm going to close the public hearing so the mission what are your comments [28:43] **Brian Douglas**: I think uh one of my comments is and one that I addressed with the city administrator and and uh one of the property owners on the end of the street up on on that where that hammer is or whatever we're gonna move that further east and [29:05] **Brian Douglas**: get it off of your property which is I'm I'm pretty sure that's your concern where is that the Valley View Road that would be the end of Valley View okay I'm with you Donald's last house on the right on the uh yeah and value yeah right before the drop off so okay [29:34] **Matt Montgomery**: this is John's here from where from where now they go up 25. [29:39] **Diane Johnson**: yeah right yeah I mean that's it that's here right 25 is here right here right here yeah she's right here at her property of the two lots right here right on her property [Music] yeah we agree address that oh I see what you're saying for sure yeah [30:08] **Isaac Naatz**: um was that originally planned to be continued through because it's right there you can almost see like there's a trail or a road that was gonna go through [30:19] **Bill Angerman**: yeah that was my understanding it's been a long time but that appears the original intent there are utilities through here as well so but well maybe the better maybe the [30:25] **Bill Angerman**: consideration the topography maybe uh particularly over here on the south one it's it'd be pretty tough to put a roll through and then yeah then see it feels like a wall it is correct yep and then the water tower going down there kind of makes it difficult too so another good trail yeah so okay so how are we how is the old talk lot accessing [30:52] **Bill Angerman**: so felt off lot there you'll see on the screen there is this right here so that uh axis of Spring Garden Road so what would happen is potentially this would just turn into a driveway that would come through the development and then this portion of the road could go away but so then it's actually not perfect I [31:12] **Matt Montgomery**: don't see it okay it's it's off it's off the map well here's Hilltop slot right here but I don't see a road [31:21] **Bill Angerman**: no it's uh so El tovs is up up here he's talking about right yeah yep to their place it's right here they come up Spring Garden Road well I know Lord the current road is yeah so the whole is development I'm not seeing so this this right here is this is the right-of-way that's a 66 foot right away right there yeah so that would that is what leads to altov's house correct it is currently correct and the future of that is what you know I'd covered under item 13 what do we do there is there another property there's no other property that's up there that could be [31:58] **Matt Montgomery**: the farm yeah yeah so that would be the same thing with the driveway well the other my understanding from Mr jablowski is that that property would eventually be in the next phase it would be a torn down okay um tell you his name when it comes to me [32:17] **Isaac Naatz**: we don't think the existing Limestone Road with that map can be continued on to do that's not feasible now we're across if I could County 25 from what was trouble trouble to the South yeah yep yeah [32:46] **Isaac Naatz**: and and so we've I think the fir last time we talked about this a few years ago that was still pretty fresh in our minds um so we've done our due diligence on the type of soil we're dealing with this time so [33:04] **Bill Angerman**: so actually I maybe shouldn't have glossed over item 14 from my review ladder and if it's on the screen there so a geotechnical report so typically a geotechnical report would not be turned in with the preliminary it'd be turned in with the final so that would evaluate the soil soil conditions Etc so we are expecting that with the final plot submittal [33:28] **Isaac Naatz**: the with the final plan correct okay so we are we're it's yeah it's on our mind but this would generally be one step [33:31] **Bill Angerman**: before that so yeah and Mr Pulaski is aware of that as Engineers aware of that correct [33:36] **Isaac Naatz**: is that was a great place if you wanted to open a pottery but that's about all um the um drainage issue up there that we talked about to Grove Street in and also up in that corner um you have if you go east you're going right down Maine right past my house yeah and I know that we've had basically Rivers come down there uh big flooding problems for some of the people back in that area so um that's gonna when you get down to that that's going to be pretty difficult to find a place where you're not going to cause problem for the city [34:18] **Bill Angerman**: yeah and if if I may so [34:21] **Bill Angerman**: um so this phase of the plot everything would drain to Cairo 25s not till future phases so yeah really yeah so really it's kind of divided up into three areas uh it will be it want to go trains will go to the northwest yeah actually maybe I can pull Google Earth up here while we're talking that might help Northwest up here so as the drainage comes to the drain this is a big ditch right here yeah Northwest that's a big ditch yep Northeast right here the Northeast kind of comes to the cemetery and through the mobile property and then the very North part just kind of sheet drains down the hill so what we've talked about is well how do we address that you know and how do we address well first off there's the statutory requirement they have to meet [35:04] **Bill Angerman**: and that is the amount of runoff leaving the site after the development has to be less than or equal to before yeah so so they're going to satisfy that will as part of our review but then there's also the Practical reality of well we don't have some good drainage now going through these you know here and here how are we going to improve that yeah that Limestone underneath so how are you going to stop it yeah so one of the things we've talked about particularly well both Northeast and Northwest is do we pipe it down the hill I think the group people on Grove Street would tell you that well running it down the hill doesn't work you know and uh so I think we do not want to repeat that so so how about changing the the um [35:51] **Isaac Naatz**: well what you've got is a natural slope can't you re-engineer that whole Hillside [35:55] **Bill Angerman**: uh nope the water the water is going to go I know the yeah that's what I mean but but can we can we like can you dike it in a direction yeah you can you can do some things like here I'll just pointing here to the Northwest you know can you do some things down the hillside yeah Earth and dikes or something yeah but I know you're kind of limited I know that's but you're facing that problem you're going to have flooding on on possibly two sides of both sides of that Hill if you get which you've seen already right now from the developers perspective and that is okay what are you required to do you're required to uh keep it the same or better now from the city's perspective we want better but that means if we want better then we are [36:39] **Bill Angerman**: going to be a partner in that discussion when I so when I say partner it means we're going to be contributing dollars as well and if I was a developer I'd say well this like this Northwest drainage one here is on city property well it that's part of the city's responsibility [37:05] **Matt Montgomery**: yeah so did we discuss a retaining pond or has that been done before [37:10] **Bill Angerman**: yeah there's a pond right here so actually the plan from 1994 was for the city to run a pipe up the hill to that pond that never occurred and none of the current staff were around then to know why so we we don't know why nothing goes around even Steve we we tell Steve Steve was here so no it was a long time ago I might have been around I can't remember that far back yeah so [37:26] **Bill Angerman**: but we're but we're aware there are some well air drainage issues you know whenever you're on top of a hill there always is so [37:39] **Matt Montgomery**: opportunities in the future and that'll be in the what's your experience with more concrete and more and more charred surfaces with water it runs off faster it says [37:54] **Bill Angerman**: yeah so so the overall for this preliminary plant there are three uh storage pods and infiltration basins that are proposed so and what we look at and I'm sorry if we're getting into the weeds a little too much I know Matt has another appointment but what we look at is we need to convey the 10-year storm okay so think of that as five inches of rain 24 hours we need to convey it mean put in a pipe run it into a pond treat the water and then when we get a hundred year storm so think that seven eight inches of rain in a day you know that we need to be able to we're going to overflow ponds we have to have a path for the water to overflow safely out of the [38:24] **Bill Angerman**: subdivision without going into homes so that concept for example on Grove Street well actually there wasn't a development you know but uh that was partially followed through so that's what we're working on today on the Grove Street solution so so will we have any problems with drainage then on the Cannon Falls side of this up by uh just the other side altafs there to the uh to the east of Altov property got a pretty good Gully going running down [39:00] **Bill Angerman**: yeah and I think it'd be fair to say we have drainage problems there now yes so the development here will in theory lessen it because they'll be providing ponding and storage that doesn't exist yeah yep that'll be up to the city then to help can you know come up with a solution for the existing problem okay and Mr jablowski is uh [39:10] **Bill Angerman**: these our discussions have been positive with him towards that [39:13] **Matt Montgomery**: so yeah great thanks yep I'll make a motion to approve uh resolution 2022-13 power and plus preliminary fats for the multiple pids [39:27] **Isaac Naatz**: I'm going to second [39:31] **Brian Douglas**: is there any further discussion concerning the preliminary plot [39:42] **Brian Douglas**: uh no further discussion we will vote uh do it right here gives me I Johnson aye aye Emma aye Montgomery hi passes um there's nothing else on our agenda so I make a motion to adjourn [40:12] **Matt Montgomery**: second [40:15] **Brian Douglas**: most gives me second by Montgomery to adjourn any further discussion all in favor aye aye aye opposed awesome Kerry thank you thank you thank you