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Hey [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] Do [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] Hey hey hey hey hey hey hey. [Music] [Music] All right. [Music] [Music] Heat. Hey, Heat. [Music] Hey [Music] everybody. [Music] [Music] Heat. Heat. [Music] Heat. Heat. [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] Hey. [Music] [Music] [Music] Hey hey hey. [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] Heat. Hey Heat. [Music] [Music] Hey hey hey. [Music] Hey, [Music] [Music] hey hey. Heat. Hey, Heat. [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] D. Hey. Hey. [Music] [Music] Welcome to the City of Bakersfield Planning Commission meeting. This television broadcast is brought to you by the local cable companies, the county of Kerna, and the city of Bakersfield. You can watch the rebroadcast of this meeting Saturday at 700 p.m. and Sunday at 10:00 a.m. The agenda for this meeting can be downloaded at www.bakersfield city. us. Preciding over this evening's meeting, Chair Adam Strickland. Good afternoon. It is my pleasure to call to order the August 21st, 2025 planning commission meeting. Madame Clerk, will you please call the role? >> Chair Strickland >> here. >> Vice Chair Bidd >> here. >> Commissioner Grant Oliver >> here. >> Commissioner Kedar. >> Commissioner Core >> here. >> Commissioner Martin >> here. >> Commissioner Neil >> here. Madame clerk, next item, please. >> Pledge of allegiance. >> Please stand for the pledge of allegiance. >> I aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thank you for attending tonight's planning commission meeting. This commission provides an opportunity for the public participation in the development processes throughout the city of Bakersfield. The planning commission considers a wide variety of projects including subdivision maps, zone changes, general plan amendments, and more. When applications are received, the city planning division analyzes the request. Planning staff will present the facts about the project along with their recommendation to the planning commission who will approve the item or make recommendations as appropriate. Madame clerk, next item, please. >> Public statements. >> Public statements are now received at different times depending on the item. I will call on Madame Clerk to call for public statements at the appropriate time. So, please listen carefully for the correct time to speak. >> Non-aggenda item 3A, public statements. Does anyone in the audience wish to address the commission regarding items not listed on tonight's agenda? If so, please come forward. State your name. >> Oh, >> good evening. My name is Terry Maxwell. Uh, I'm here because of an agenda item that you will be facing sometime in the future. I'm sure by now you know that the city council in their last meeting has made the decision to change the name of H Street to Caesar Chavez Boulevard. Um since that day, which was just barely a week ago, I have been able to get 400 signatures on a petition. I've had over 40 emails sent to me to my work address. Uh and there are others in the audience that are doing the same. One is a online petition against the changing of 8 Street has over 1,800 signatures. We want you to know this because as you are into the future going to be dealing with this since the city council brought it up first, it will come back to you at some point. I don't know when that's going to be, but I would ask that you be sure and have the city manager's office document every phone call they get in opposition to this particular idea that H Street that's been there for over 120 years be changed to a somewhat controversial individual. I don't know if this is virtue signaling or exactly what they're doing, but what's funny about it is they have put you in the driver's seat. If this if this particular commission looks at it and does not feel that it is a proper application that that is not in the best interest of the people and you've received enough opposition, you can do one of two things. You can either deny it or you can table it. If you do not feel that you have enough information at the time that this is brought in front of you, I would hope that you would table it and ask for more review and more input from the from the community because there are very few people I have met that are in favor of this. There's no organic demand for it. This was simply something that a couple of people on the city council came up with. it came up and it was really out of left field because had they taken the time to start talking to some of their constituents, I would have I think they would have found out that most people in Bakersfield do not favor this. Now, let me be clear. We have no problems with you naming a street, Caesar Chavez Boulevard, but don't do it on H Street. I want you to think of all the businesses. Miss Bidd, you happen to own a business and you can imagine how much money it would cost your business to change all of the things that have your address on it. And it's very expensive. At the time that they changed Pierce Road to Buck Owens Boulevard, there was an owner of a business that spent over $10,000 to change all of the information in his business. Those are the considerations that I think that the city council did not think about, but I would I would hope that you would. So, we have some time at the time you get it agendaized. I would presume we're going to have at this point we've got about 2500 signatures. I think at the time that you're going to consider this, there will be even more signatures. But I urge you talk to your city manager. make sure that they journalize every single phone call that they get that is not in favor of this or any emails. Thank you. >> Thank you, Mr. Maxwell. Is there anyone else who would like to address the commission on non cons or non-aggenda items? >> Thank you, Reverend Dr. Angela Frasier. Thank you for allowing me to address you today. I was in the city council meeting last week when these issues came up. uh the $300,000 uh to the Dolores Peace and Justice that came up and also the renaming of A Street. By the time I got to the lobby here, people were calling me asking what the heck is going on Bakersville. So, I started doing some research and try to figure out what's going on. I didn't know. Next thing I know, I uh business owner contacted me. He saw me outside of his uh business a few days ago. I was making a short little video to tell, hey, what's happening here? Why what's going on? He called me and asked me, can I help him? We met with him yesterday. And he's the first business on a street is number one right there at the beginning of Golden State Highway. and he began to talk to us about how he built that business from the bottom up and it would cost him somewhere between 50 and $100,000. He said, "This isn't fair. No one told me." And he also showed me a list of other businesses that he had contacted and they didn't know anything about it and they were upset. news came out and interviewed and did some got some coverage. I started a like Terry, I started an online petition, told people to be nice, but to share the opposition to this. Um, I'm not a business owner, but I do have a finance degree and I understand the B city of Bakersville is struggling financially. I don't see how this is possible. There are over nearly over 400 businesses that line a street, one of the historic streets in our city, nearly 10 miles long. What's the purpose of doing causing this? One senior wrote out to me and I collected letters to she's a senior. She's in the 70s, '8s. And she wrote this chaos for so many businesses and homeowners on H Street. And Terry will tell you, he's hearing, I'm hearing, and again, I'm just the average Joe. They're contacting me saying, "Why is the city of Bakersville doing this? I thought they didn't have any money. And who's going to pay for the businesses to change all these things over? We've done some great things in this city. I love this city. I've been here 30 years. This seems like a political agenda by a few with the inconsiderate of the whole. I guarantee you if you bring business owners in here, there are a few that go along with this. I run into them, too. But the majority that I've talked to in the last two days are furious and they don't really know what to do other than when it happens just to suck it up. I think we're better than this and I think as Terry said that there going to be more people in the last two days we have over 200 people who are responding. We sat out here today and we got signatures. I had city officials, people who work for the city had come and say that they disagree with this, but they can't say anything because they're city officials. They came out there and told us, "Thanks for what you're doing." So, I think this needs to go back to the drawing board. Whoever came up with this hairbrain idea needs to rethink this because they're going to harm a lot of people. And last Wednesday, there was a business owner in this building and said, "If this happens, he's going to have to close his business." Is that what this is about? To get a name up on the boulevard at the expense of the people that have worked hard in this town to build their livelihood. And a few of you up there have businesses here. I think I I I can't see the the the the progress of this. I see the harm. And so I'm just begging you, pleading with you, say no. Say no. Thank you. >> Thank you, Mr. Fraser. >> That's a tall dude. >> Um, Jeff Sanders, I I I believe that this whole changing the name of of a street to Caesar Chavez is to support Dolores Wartz new building. They just gave her $300,000. I'm wondering if they're just going to run another $300,000 to help the business change all their addresses. Um, if she really needs that name in front of her building, put it on her building or on way to her building, but don't change a 100red years of history to satisfy a political push for Dolores Worth. A lot of these people are are catering to it. Social engineering. Um, and I I believe some of them will get kickbacks for catering to her in their next run for whatever office they're going to. I beg you, there's streets out there unnamed. We got streets going up all over the place. Caesar Chavez has several statues, monuments already. He didn't live in Bakersfield. Why disrupt Bakersfield over Caesar Chaza? He stands on the opposite side of what Dolores Wartz did. He would go down and beat them back because they were illegals. He wanted legal people working with his people. Dolores is for bringing as many legal illegals in as possible. They're trying to restructure history and social engineer. Don't do it with taxpayer dollars on H Street. Thank you. >> Thank you, Mr. Sanders. >> Good evening. My name is Patina Belter and I was born and raised in Bakersfield. So, I've lived here 67 years. I went to change.org and started a petition against this. Um, presently I have 1,817 signatures opposing this. And I'd like to read something if I may. H Street is a staple in Bakersville, California. It has been a significant part of our community for years, a familiar landmark that holds personal and historical significance for many of us. The name resonates with memories, stories, and a sense of identity. It represents our past, present, and future. a symbol of unity and continuity in our ever evolving city. Changing the name of 8 Street would not just alter our maps, but it would strip away a piece of our collective history that we cherish deeply. Many residents and local business owners rely on this name for its brand recognition geography familiarity and cultural importance. Such a change could lead to confusion, loss of identity, and a disconnect from our roots. The proposed name change is not in the best interest of our community. It's pivotal for officials to truly engage with the residents of Bakersfield, gathering input and consensus before making a significant decision. A name change should reflect the will of the people and address a wider community benefit, none of which is currently evident with the H Street proposal. We implore the city officials to consider the emotional, cultural, and economic impacts of this decision. Let us keep H Street as it is, preserving its legacy and significance for generations to come. Please stand with us by signing this petition to maintain the historical fabric and community identity tied to 8 Street. Together, we can ensure that Bakersfield keeps its cherished landmarks intact. Thank you so much. >> Thank you, Miss Belter. Is there anyone else who would like to address the agenda on items not listed on tonight? >> Uh yeah, you can leave them there and then uh they'll be picked up by the city clerk. >> Thank you so much. All right, seeing none, >> agenda item 3B, public statements. >> Does anyone in the audience wish to address the commission regarding items listed on tonight's agenda? If you here for non-consent public hearing 6A, now is not the time to speak. You'll be given an opportunity to speak at a later time. >> Seeing none, madame clerk, next item, please. >> Agenda item four, consent calendar items. >> All matters listed under the consent items do not require a public hearing and will be enacted by one motion. There will be no separate discussion of said items unless staff or commissioner requests specific items to be discussed and or removed for separate action. May I get a motion approving consent items 4A? >> So move, Mr. Chairman. >> Commissioner Martin. >> I'll second. >> That was a second from Commissioner Core. Commissioners, please cast your votes. motion passes with Commissioner Neil abstaining and Commissioner Kedar absent. >> Thank you, Madam Clerk. Next item, please. >> Agenda item five, consent calendar public hearing items. Now is the time for consent calendar public hearing items. If an item is not removed by commissioner, staff, or member of the public, the commission will vote on all items in one motion without further comment. If an item is removed, it will be placed at the end of the non-consent public hearing items. At this time, I will now open the consent calendar public hearing items. Does any member of the public wish to remove a consent calendar public hearing item? Yeah. Yes. Please, please come up to state which one you would like to remove and then I think your name as well. Is that right? >> Yeah. Okay. Name and the item you'd like to remove and then we'll we'll move it to the back of the uh >> uh David Aragon and it's for 5B. >> 5B. Okay. Thank you. >> Um it'll it'll remove and it'll go to the back of the non-consent public hearing item. So where we've got six alpha I think is the only item. It'll be presented after that and then we'll open for public comment then. >> Okay. >> Thank you sir. just hang out with us for a little bit longer. Does any member of the public wish to remove any other non-consent items? Does a commissioner wish to remove any items on the non-consent and staff? >> And just to confirm, it was 5B as in boy. Thank you. >> Thank you. All right. At this time, the consent calendar public hearing items not removed are now closed. May I get a motion to adopt staff's recommendations on the consent public hearing items not removed, incorporating all staff memoranda and revised staff recommendations. >> So moved. >> Second, Commissioner Neil. And then Vice Chair Bidd was a second. >> Oh, Brent Oliver. You know what? I'm just going to move on from this all together. So that is uh approving items 5A, 5 C and 5D on the >> Yep. >> Yes. >> Commissioners, please cast your votes. Motion to approve consent calendar items 5A, 5 C, and 5D with Commissioner Kater absent. >> Thank you, Madam Clerk. Next item, please. Agenda item six, non-consent public hearing items. >> All right. And I will try and do it with more flare and more excitement. Um, now is the time for non-consent public hearing items. Before we begin, I would like to explain how the hearing will be conducted. Staff will first give a report. Then those in favor of the project will be allowed to speak. Those in opposition to the project will be able to speak after all those in favor have spoken. Each side will be given five minutes to provide rebuttal comments. Individual speakers may ask questions during their statements, but the questions will not be answered until the public hearing on that item is closed. Written comments may be given to the clerk who will provide copies to the commission. Please be respectful of others participating by in the hearing by not repeating the remarks of previous speakers and by presenting any new comments or thoughts in a concise and clear way. Miss Ing, would you or staff provide your staff report for item 6A? >> Thank you, chair. I'd like to introduce to you Noeli Topete, associate planner, planning department. >> Good evening. My name is Noel Topete, associate planner with the development services department. I'm here to present agenda item 6A, vesting tenative trackm 7488. Besting tenative track map 7488 is located generally southeast of Kauaii Lane and Trackside Drive in Northwest Bakersfield. The applicant is requesting a track map to subdivide 1.17 acres into six single family residential lots in an R1 single unit dwelling zone. Residential lots range in size from 5524 ft to 10,514 ft. And the typical lot size is approximately 112 ft wide by 70 ft deep or 9,519 square ft. Staff has received one email and two verbal comments in opposition of the project in response to the public hearing notice. The email received was included in the staff report packet. Following distribution of the staff report for this planning commission meeting, letters were submitted by Brianna Harrison and Roberto Ogua and by Rosa Maria and Haime Chavis, all neighboring residents of the project site. In addition, an opposition letter and petition were submitted by Brianna Harrison on behalf of the Homestead Ranch neighborhood. The comment letters and staff responses were provided to your commission through a memorandum. Staff recommends approval. That concludes my presentation of the project. Thank you. >> Thank you. Appreciate that. All right. The public hearing is now open. Is there anyone who wishes to speak in favor of the project? If so, please step forward. Please step to the microphone, identify yourself, and proceed. Seeing none, is there anyone who wishes to speak in opposition to the project? If so, please step to the microphone, identify yourself, and proceed. Good evening. My name is Lori Davis. My address is 5412 Kauawaii Lane. I am on the southeast corner of trackside and Kauaii Lane directly behind this proposed track map. First of all, I am requesting that this hearing be continued to the next meeting of the planning commission so that more of the property owners affected and in opposition to this proposed tract can be in attendance. This hearing has been scheduled for the same day and time as the back to school night at the elementary school, Patriot Elementary, which all the children in the neighborhood attend. I'm sure you would agree that our children come first. However, the affected neighbors should not be penalized for placing their children first. I doubt a twoe continuence will have a negative impact on this applicant. If he were requesting a continuence for a reason such as this, I'm quite sure it would be granted. I'm I just want to tell you that I don't think it is a good idea for an affected property owner to be referred to an engineering firm that in turn refers them to an owner subdivider. The existing property owner in this case me and the owner subdivider are at opposite ends of the issue and it most likely won't end well. I called the engineering firm who then told me that they have no engineers in the office. All work is done remotely and the engineer on this specific tract is out of state. The person answering the phone said she would leave a message for the engineer to call me, but it was highly unlikely that he would, and she was right. He did not. She referred me to the property owner and gave me the name of JG Construction, but said she could not give me the phone number. I went online and found the same number in two separate places and called. I must have gotten the owner's personal cell phone because it was obvious I was bothering him. I told him who I was and that I was referred to him by his engineer. He said "Yeah." I told him I wanted to ask a couple of questions about the proposed track. Again, I quote, he said, "Yeah. I asked him why he was proposing a dead-end street rather than a culde-sac to which he replied, "It's not a dead-end street. It's a hammerhead, but it doesn't matter. It's private property. It's none of your business." And he hung up on me. This is why I'm saying that I don't think the existing property owners and the and the subdividers should be put in contact with each other. And as I was saying, it does I as I was saying it does matter to the property owners. That's when he hung up. I worked for the city planning department from 1981 to 1998 and I sat in that chair right there only the the it was low and I felt like it was in a fishbowl. Just about every uh I was about just about every I was at just about every planning commission meeting for 13 years. And I don't recall any tract coming through in which a hammerhead or what I call a dead-end street was allowed. Why is this private street that allows a width that is inconsistent with on street parking being allowed to be dropped in the middle of our neighborhood? A neighborhood that has existed for over 20 years and allows on street parking. I for one have owned my property for 16 years. the owner of the proposed track is simply offloading his responsibility onto us so that he can make a higher profit. I never worried about this property because it was in an existing track as two lots and has been for at least 20 years. I never dreamed this one street, six lot trap with a dead end and no street parking type of development would even be on the planning commission agenda agenda for consideration. This is absolute craziness. How on earth did our municipal code and our zoning ordinance get changed to allow this mayhem? the applicant is going to do all of this, sell these houses and walk away or he is just getting this tracked in place so that he can sell the property for a quick substantial profit at our expense and walk away. This proposal doesn't make sense for anyone except the developer. Why should we have to be strapped with this situation when he bought this property knowing it was two lots in an existing track? I know there I know there is a move on the part of the city to allow more homes to be built, but at whose expense? Why have we as a city gone this far out of whack? I am vehemently opposed to allowing a lot depth of 70 ft where there's a 100 foot minimum. This will that will mean the proposed house behind me will be right in my backyard. If it is a twotory, it will be worse. I do not want this and neither would any of you or staff who recommended you buy off on this. Under conclusions in the staff report, it states the proposal is consistent with land use goals and policies as contained in the general plan which encourages continuity of existing development. This tenative track does not allow for continuity. First, the lot depth is a very substantial change. A private street allowing no on street parking at a dead end. We don't have these types of situations in our neighborhood currently. So, how is this continuity? I thought dead ends were a thing of the past. You call it a hammerhead, but your own staff report acknowledges it is a dead end. On page five of six, table D 103.4 Four says requirements for deadend fire apparatus access roads. We have low water pressure at the present time. It is obvious when taking showers and watering our grass. I have to handwater some areas of my grass at least every other day in the summer. And I'm concerned this will make an already bad situation worse. If the planning commission is determined to approve this tract, which again I am vehematly opposed to, I would respectfully request that condition number 17 on page five of eight under solid waste be revised such that line four would end at to provide service. Period. I don't agree with the trash carts being placed on trackside drive for collection. If the hammerhead is being blocked by a vehicle, it most likely will be a guest of one of the property owners. The HOA and these proposed owners need to be responsible for policing themselves. We should not be inconvenienced. This request will have a detrimental effect on the many existing property owners to allow a higher profit for the few for the few the developer. How does this make sense? It is a selfish endeavor and this developer will not be a good neighbor. After all, he didn't even give me a chance to ask a couple of questions before he told me it was none of my business and hung up on me. On behalf of my husband, Randy Willis and I, I respectfully res submit my comments to you and thank you for your time. >> Thank you, Miss Davis. Is there anyone else who would wish to speak in opposition to the project? If so, please step to the microphone, identify yourself. Oh, there you are. Hello. >> Hello. My name is Chris Gyroano and I live at 12318 and this is my wife Stara. We live at 12318 Rodeo Avenue. It's just directly east of the proposed uh area. And uh I I just don't know how you can go and put six houses where there should only be two. uh it's it's it's a money grab by the uh developer and uh you know we're going to we're going to see all kinds of congestion that's going to go on there and and like I I don't know how you can do you're opening this up right now that there's nothing that looks like this what they're proposing in in the whole neighborhood anywhere but we're going to do it now. I I just I don't get it. Hi. Um, I had um submitted an email that should be in the packet original. >> Can you give your name first, please? Pardon? Your name. >> Stara Jordano. >> Sorry, >> I'm not a public speaker. >> Take your time. >> So, I submitted the original email um requesting more information. I received more information this afternoon from Noi. And so, I wrote a response letter, but it didn't get submitted. So, I brought a copy. I'm not sure if you guys received it or not. Um, just outlining all of the reasons why we feel that this is just not going to fit in our neighborhood. Our original um tract um was appropriate for the neighborhood. Um but we're also willing to be um compromised. You know, maybe three units, maybe four units, but the six units just does not fit. and the consideration of how the private road and all the like the solid waste issues, the parking issues, those types of things. It's just um there's I can't tell from any of the report of a good reason why to change from the two units that are already approved to the six. And so I would hope that you would consider either delaying this so we could have more neighbors come um have time to view this because I feel like not enough of our neighbors were even sent the notice. Um it's considering the entire neighborhood but only the you know very close neighbors within 300 ft were sent a notice. Um we did get um signatures um which is 80% of them opposed this that received the notice. So we would hope that you would consider our perspective. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, Mr. and Mrs. Diorano. And and we did just to confirm staff did provide the letter from today in a memo that was sent out and attached to the meeting notes as well. So we have that letter as well. Thank you. Is there anyone else who wish to speak in opposition of the project? Seeing none. >> Well, there's a lot of other people that would have been here if it wasn't >> sir. Sir, if if you want to speak up, you can step to the mic and speak up. Just don't yell from the floor if you don't mind. >> My name is Randy Willis. Yes, sir. >> I'm just reminding you there's other folks that are at back to school night that would like to be here to speak. We've talked to a few of them. Okay, that's all I want to say. >> Yes, sir. Miss Willis. Thank you. >> All right. Seeing no other public speaker, does any commissioner have any questions for the public on this item? Remember, this is not the time to express opinions on the matter. Is only time to ask questions? Yes, we can. Yes, of course. Uh, Commissioner Martin. >> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um I guess first I'm I've been looking at um and I guess this question first is for staff understanding that I just took with the 1.17 acres divided by six lots roughly and I understand that two of them are much smaller but the average would be 8,492 ft and it looks like most of these lots are about um 7 to 9,000 with the exception of two but they're compliant with a code and that these lots are more than 4500 square feet. Correct. All six of them. >> Commissioner Martin, that is correct. >> Okay. Um and I just looked up uh one one address, Miss Lori who spoke. I just looked up Kawaii Lane uh 512 Kawaii Lane just on Zillow while we were while we're here just to kind of look up. and that that home is 1,900 ft on a 7,400 ft² lot which is roughly in line with four of these six lots. So I guess my question here is in this region um in this area do do we have an idea of what the average lot size is for these adjourning uh neighbors? >> Commissioner Martin, yes, we did do some research. I did some research and the average size is about 7200 square feet. Um as you move further south in and east uh lot sizes do increase to about 9,000. >> Okay. So to about 9,000 and of these six lots uh four of them are about in that 9,000 square foot range. Is that correct? Uh in gross acreage, yes, about 9,000 and net acorage about um [Music] >> 70 about 75,000 square feet. >> Okay. 7,500. Okay. >> Sorry. 7500. >> Yes, ma'am. Okay. Um so these are by and large by and large uh in line with the neighborhood. Um so I guess for now that is the only comments I have. understanding that the that if it is back to school night and I mean I want to hear from the rest of my commissioners but like I understand that and I >> this is questions only opinions will be after this. >> Okay. Thank you. >> All right. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry, Mr. Chairman. >> Follow procedure. >> Yeah. You just remember that. No worries. >> Was that the end of the questions? >> Oh, cool. >> Yes, it was. Mr. Chairman, thank you. >> Commissioner Brent Oliver. >> Yes. Is there an owner's representative in the um owner's rep owner? Yes, you are the engineer or you the owner? You're the owner. Okay. Have you considered this question exactly what we're talking about? Have you thought about why you chose the two center lots to be um much considerably smaller than the other four lots? >> And sir, you need to go up to the front. Thank you. Yes, please, if you don't mind, and just state your name. Appreciate you for coming, too. >> Sure. My my name's Jeremy Gustoson. Um, you know what, a lot of the the sizing of that, um, I worked with, um, Lav Pinnacle. Some of that is because of the hammerhead that was a requirement of the fire department. So, that's kind of how that lot size in the middle ended up the way it did. Um, I do want to address one thing while I'm here. Uh, Mrs. Davis is saying that I I hung up on her. I did. I have another representative here from LA Pinnacle. She was extremely extremely rude. >> Um very inappropriate on the phone. >> I I appreciate it. I just want to caution where we're going with this is I I appreciate the comments. >> Sure. I'll leave it at that. I'll just say I was not able to get a word in edgewise with her. >> Got it. I'm not >> And that was it. Um and I said I'm not going to continue with the phone call. Uh, the same thing happened with Lav. And so I I get it. She's she's upset about the project. I can't help that. Um, >> you know, I I could go in a little bit more in depth than this the whole thing the >> was that did that answer your original question? >> I I just want to make sure that the question >> they answered my original question. I can see the reason on lot six and >> also too we're trying to get setbacks on those um it was size of size of the home that we were dealing with to try to fit on that. Um we wanted a setback from that very end of that hammerhead um just to kind of give a buffer for any fire all that hammerhead is for is for solid waste and for fire department for ease of access. I I can't I I can't put a culde-sac on there. Again, it's private property. We don't need to >> Would you be open to any adjustments to the tract map as far as being lots four and two, the two front and the two middle? Would you be open to >> um you know, >> pushing around those lines? >> I appreciate that your question. It's it's difficult. I don't think we're able to just because of the two homes we were deciding that are facing trackside. Those face north, those will not face into the street, which would be Wild Desert Drive. Those two homes would face trackside, trying to give it a little bit more of a a look of the neighborhood to keep that. Um, the other ones would sit directly facing into Wild Desert Drive. Um, that was given them a little bit more of a backyard, give it more of the same feel of the neighborhood. Um, I I I want to go on a different tangent. I don't want to. But the whole reason for this um this property, most of the calls that we received when we were building it or kind of designing this and trying to figure it out, people don't want large lots anymore. Majority of millennials, Gen Z's, they don't want to deal with the management aspect of having ginormous lots like that. If I put a typical home uh that would that would be similar to what's in that neighborhood anywhere that ranges I think from 1500 foot home up to I think they were ranged 2600. If I build that it's a it's a teeny little stamp on that lot. Most of the people did not want to deal with property taxes. They didn't want to deal with the weeds. Um I had two homes that we would have had have looked at maybe doing. No one wanted to deal with the lot size. The other side is I got calls from people that wanted to build the home, but then they wanted me to build shops in the back so they could do diesel repair. Um, if you like that, if you want to hear the air ratchets all day long, I'm I mean, I'm trying to I'm trying to help. I've got the the the city and the community, the neighborhood in my best interest. I don't want to deliver that. Um, I had people that called and asked if they could buy it to store storage containers and shipping containers. I got calls from LA. I got random calls for this for years. People wanting to store stuff. I got a call from a gentleman two years ago that thought he could put a gas station in there. So, I'm our interest is in the benefit the best benefit of the constituents here, the the neighborhood, the community. We're building life product to what you already have, what's there. Um, I'm not building condos. I'm not building threetory condo units of 30 units, which we got a call for that. Believe me, people are looking for land everywhere to build. Um, and that's not what we're delivering. We don't want to deliver, again, 25, 28, 30 units stacked up three stories high so they can look in everybody's backyard. I don't think that would be in anybody's best interest. Um, what are we doing? Let's kind of scale it back. I'm putting a couple homes there that are going to be very like to what the product is in the neighborhood. Um, again, millennials, the younger generation, people, they want something simple, and that's what we're trying to deliver with that. Uh, very like product to what uh I think that's a a LAR or a a Dr. Horton neighborhood. Um, we're not deviating from that. And that's where I think people aren't really thinking this through. Um, you know, give it time. We could have inh homeless encampments there. I don't know if people like that. Um, trash by I mean the weeds, anything you do there seems everybody seems to oppose it, but they're opposing the home, which is what's all surrounding that whole neighborhood. Um, there could be many more adverse projects that could happen there if that property got in the wrong hands. >> Does that answer your question? Thank you for stepping up and and answering all those questions. >> Sure. >> Is there anything else I can answer? >> We'll go Commissioner Core first and then Commissioner Morton. >> Um, I have a question for the owner. Um, are you going to be building the houses or you're selling the lots? >> Uh, I'll build on them. >> You're building by your Okay, you are. Okay. Um, and then question to the staff. Can you please explain um in the the track map 17 ft for lot one minimum depth guideline? >> Mr. core. This the subdivision ordinance. Our subdivision ordinance has minimum lot design factors and um depending on how the lot is oriented. The depth is the length of the lot and it is a minimum 100 ft and the width of the lot is a shorter end and in a R1 zone it's 55 ft. However, there is an inconsistency with our zoning ordinance right now because we did do the major um update last last year and so we are we are considering modifications to those subdivision standards to allow development under our new zoning code. Eventually, our subdivision ordinance will be updated to be comp comparable or compatible with our zoning code. And is there a code um how far they need to be from the back lot line? >> Again, it depends on the um on the development of the property, the coverage of the property. Typically, it's a 25 foot u building setback for backyard, but it could go down to about 5t. And last one, the hammerhead and then the culde-sac. Does um city have any guidelines of they them not putting hammerhead or culdeac in there? >> That that's may I speak? That comes directly from the fire department and the state. Commissioner Morton, >> we didn't make that up. >> Understanding. But is that correct? Uh, missing what he said. >> The fire department is here. And if you would like a response from the fire department, I'd be happy to ask him to step to the microphone. >> Yeah, I mean, I appreciate it and I I value I'm sure what you're saying is correct, but I'd like to have confirmation from that was from staff. Uh, good evening. Peter Armgos, Bakersfield City Fire Department. I'm a plans examiner and that information is correct. Do you have any further questions about it? I can refer text to you. No, thank you. Okay, that's good. >> Yeah. I um my only other question I guess, Mr. Chairman, is again from the largest lot to the smallest lot, the the largest lot is 90% larger. So it's not like I just ran the numbers on that. So it's not it's not a little bit larger. And so if your argument is is millennials are wanting to buy smaller houses and I can I can believe that because it can't millennials can't afford a house right now. It's too uh you know it's too expensive but um you know is that normal staff to have such a large variance? that happen often in the track >> staff mainly reviews for minimum standards not necessarily um the differences in size of lots. Uh that is really a function of the the developer and what their marketing product is proposed on the property. Um so we really look at minimum standards and all these lots do meet our minimum standards. Thank you very much. I don't have any other questions. >> Thank you, Commissioner Martin. All right. I will ask just a couple questions if you don't mind. I had a question for the owner and I hate to have made you walk all the way back there and then come all the way back up, Mr. Gunderson, but just one quick minute if you don't mind. Uh, you had stated that you're going to build these properties. Um, so some of the concerns I hear from reading the report, from reading the community letters, um, even tonight what we've heard is that these might be tall buildings, etc. Do you know what these buildings are these going to be singlestory homes? Are they is that kind of going to be up to the buyer? >> You know what? We we've kind of tried to we kind of run a couple project feasibility um, just to see what what's going to work best. I mean, we we would probably like to keep them single story just keeps cost down. >> I don't see that they would go twotory, but they could, and I don't think we've ruled that out. >> Okay. >> Um, and again, there's twotory product all around that. And you can go any direction east west north south and you're going to find two-story homes all over the city. And it's nothing different in there. If if it if it is something that we can do, we will keep them single story. >> Okay, cool. Thank you. And then just to confirm a couple of other small questions. Um, >> parking seem to be a hot topic on this or is the intention that each of these homes are going to have parking via garage? Absolutely. Okay. So, you expect twocar garage, one car for the middle lot? >> Um, again, that's something that we we've still kind of working on design. That's kind of why some of those lots came out the way they did. >> Um, but they they should be at least two car. They could be they could be um an average car um garage is a 16 foot door. >> It might could go down to 12. Just depends. Um but we're still working with that to try to figure out the best plan, best layout for that. >> Okay. So, you are expecting at least parking provided within itself with a driveway with a with a little bit shortened driveway, but I don't expect people to move in there >> that have big diesel work trucks. Um even if they do, they might could still park it right by the garage. um right in front and stay off that stay off this the front edge row which is track side. >> Okay, cool. And I think that's all the questions I had for you before I seed. Did you have questions for the owner? >> Can I say one thing to to uh Matthew? You could almost look at that as well as as any track that has a culde-sac lot, a pies-shaped lot, you're going to have variance varied lots like that. As you get to the culdesac, you're going to have typically two to four lots that are completely different than the rest of your square rectangular lots. It's kind of same idea with the hammerhead. It's it changed stuff. We want to have a buffer away from that. >> Sure. >> And then did you have a question for the owner? >> No. Okay. That's I think that's all the questions for the owner. I just had a staff question or two. Oh, no. Commissioner, >> a question for the staff. Um, so today we're only deciding the the uh lots um division right? >> That is correct. So once the houses are designed, is there I know they usually don't come to our commission for approval. Is it possible to put that contingency on once the houses are designed? >> Unfortunately, I don't believe so. >> Okay. >> I think I think we're good with you, Mr. Gunderson. Thank you again. And uh I just had a couple questions for staffs following up on public comment I'd read and heard. Uh, one of them is around the trash receptacles or trash collection on a Hammerhead Road. Um, in the case that I don't know, someone parks their cars at the end of the Hammerhead Road. Um, since this is a private drive, I think the concern is that residents of these new houses take their trash recepticles all the way out to uh, uh, Ridge Trackside and put them there. If they were to do that, is that does the city have any problem with receptacles being on trackside there? for collection. Would they be even collected at that point? >> I'll answer part of that question. >> Sure. >> There is a condition of approval that requires no parking along the along desert hills or whatever >> trackside. >> No, not trackside. The private street. >> Oh, okay. >> Down the center of the of the track map and along the hammerhead there there's no parking. The homeowners association shall be required to enforce that. The hammerhead design does allow for a three-point turn for the trucks. As for moving trash deliver or trash pickup onto track site, that is I'm going to have to defer that to public works if they have a response. Thank you. >> I guess I'm just curious if someone in in lot started putting their trash on trackside. Does the city even pick that up since it's not in front of a it's a private drive. It's not the road it's supposed to be on. I'm sorry. Would you repeat that? >> I guess the question is if they move trash cans to trackside, which is part of the public concern, will the city even pick up trash cans that are on a road that aren't related to the road for the address they're picking up? >> I believe they will. >> Okay. >> Uh unfortunately, this solid waste manager is not here to answer that question, but they do the city does provide the service. >> Sure. And it's usually the solid waste manager's uh determination of where and when trash pickup would be. And we do have other tracks where um that we've recently approved on the smaller lot uh tracks um there are some tight private streets in which trucks probably won't be able to access and the property owners through the homeowners association will be required to move their um their cans to around the corner essentially to have their trash trash served. So I I I don't see any difference here if there's trash pickup along the private street or if they're required to move it to trackside. >> Understood. Thank you. And then regarding parking on trackside, knowing that trackside is a public road, is there any enforcement of no parking in that section there? Is it it's treated like every other public road? Right. >> You are correct. It's just like every other public road. Got it. Okay. I think that's all the questions I had for staff. Thank you. Uh since there was no in support, there's no opposition, correct? >> Well, the applicant eventually did speak. Uh so I think maybe we could >> Okay, sure. I I'll do that. So um at this point, is there anyone who wishes to provide a rebuttal to this item? And if so, we'll start with in opposition. Um and I'll just read through the the blurb for it. So is there anyone who wishes to provide a rebuttal on this item? If so, please be prepared to step to the podium. Each side will have only five minutes, so make your comments succinctly without repeating the remarks of previous speakers to ensure that everyone wishing to provide rebuttal comments has had a chance to do so. >> Okay. Again, I am completely opposed. >> Please just Sorry, please just >> Lori Davis. >> Thank you, Miss Davis. >> 5412 Kauawaii Lane. I am completely opposed to the 70 foot lot depth. That means the house is going to be right in my backyard. Or maybe we can take that 30 ft off of the front. Maybe move the house up to the front. Um, which I know is not going to be allowed. And he made comments about how he can put, you know, these high density apartments there and blah blah blah blah blah. No, we can't. No, it's an R1 zone. So, he's making it sound like he's doing us a favor and he's not. He He's not allowed to put these high density. I don't know why he doesn't know that, but >> M. Davis, just please address the commission. Don't Don't turn >> I know, but he was he was he was addressing the audience. >> Understood and trying to resolve that. I don't want to. And I just want to say >> um flat out, he's lying about the fact that I was not rude to him. I told him who I was, why I was calling him, and I said, "I just have a couple questions I want to ask you." And he was rude and told me it was none of my business. It was it was private property. And he hung up on me. So, I'm just That's my rebuttal to that. He is flat out lying about that. Thank you. >> Thank you, Miss Davis. Is there anyone else who would like to Thank you, sir. And just uh obviously again, Mr. Geodon, if you don't mind. >> Chris Gordono, 12318 Rodeo Avenue. Uh so, uh Commissioner Matthew Martin was talking about the lot sizes and he says, "Yeah, these four are good, but the other two they don't fit." And that's that's one of our biggest gripes is like six. Six is too many, you know? it it's it it's not it like if they want smaller places and I um go look somewhere else. It's it that that doesn't fit in with our with our neighborhood. It it just it just doesn't go along. It's I don't And he's going to build them sky high. He he's going to go he's going to go two stories no matter what. I mean, he's just trying to make the most money he can in the footprint that he has, and that's why he's going with six instead of two or four, which it should be. Thank you. >> Thank you, Mr. Goro. Georgano. There we go. Thank you, >> Randy Willis. >> Thank you, Mr. Willis. >> Um, just a couple things. Um, Mrs. Ing, is that how you pronounce it? Did I hear something right earlier that he could build up to five foot of the fence? >> It really depends on the floor plan of the property of the I'm sorry of the building. Um, we have to look at the floor plan to see how it's situated on the lot and then there's setback requirements based on how that building. >> But can he possibly put the house 5 foot from the fence? >> That is a possibility. Yes. Would you want a house 5 foot from your fence? None of the other houses in the neighborhood are 5 foot from the fence. They're 30 foot. You know, they're putting a turd right in the middle of our neighborhood. You know, and he contradicted himself. He's talking about, oh, millenniums don't want big houses and lots and all that. And then, you know, you're going to put a two-story house on it. He I mean, he said it himself. He didn't rule it out. You're talking about cost. Those things are through the roof. So, I just don't get it, you know. So, what do you think about that? You know, you're going to approve this stuff and he's going to put a two-story house on there and he's coming in here and telling you folks that, oh, no, we want to keep the money down. That's all I'm saying. And then about the parking, you know, why doesn't that street have to be wide enough like the rest of the streets around there? I don't get it. Okay, I understand the gentleman is trying to make this much money and all that. I I get all that, but I just don't understand why it has to be so different from the rest of the neighborhood. Half a mile circle around that that place. There's nothing like this at all. Why does he get to have his own road with no parking to where, you know, the overflow is around the houses and across the street? You know, I know we don't own the street, folks. I understand that. But we've enjoyed having certain amount of parking for a long time without, you know, we get without interruption per se or whatever. And this can, you know, you might have to park all the way up the street by your house because overflow parking if they're having a party or something. >> Why do they why does he get to have his own street? >> Mr. Willis, could you wrap your comments up in the final We're out of time for five minutes. Don't mean to rush off. you can finish your thought. Uh, thank you, Miss Wells. Appreciate it. Is there anyone who would like to speak in favor of the item in rebuttal in favor? >> The time for >> Sorry, five minute. Yeah, the five minute opposition ended. I'm sorry. >> Sorry. Is there anyone who would like to speak in favor in rebuttal of the item? Okay, seeing none, I will now close the public hearing on this item and return it to commission for comment and action. >> Getting there. I'm getting there. I didn't >> Yeah, Commissioner Commissioner Neil, go ahead. >> All right. Um, I just wanted to thank everybody that showed up and I'm glad that the owner was actually here on this one. We have a lot of projects where the owner is not here. Um, and so I'm glad that the owner actually came and stood up eventually when called upon. Um, so thank you for your participation. This is really a hard one because well, first of all, my son is here because we have after school night right now and I can't go because I have these duties. So I totally understand that. Um uh and um secondly um I understand both sides of the issue. I understand that the neighbors are desiring something consistent with the neighborhood uh that has existed for a long time, but I also understand that the the landowner really does have a right to design whatever he wants within the confines of the law. And I haven't heard anything um tonight that makes me um feel that anything that he's proposing to do is outside and we only have uh jurisdiction over um the subdivision at this time, not actually what he actually builds. But I will comment that yes, he may be able to build two stories and two ADUs on each of these lots, but that is within his right um as a home as a as a property owner. One of the things that we're really focused on on the planning commission and just as a city as a whole is developing more housing. So, I have a hard time um uh denying a project that is fitting within the confines of the law that is actually providing more housing because there might be a parking inconvenience or something of that nature for the neighbors. Um this is one of those things the tragedy of the commons where we have to all share land uh together and we as a government have to set out the standards for which uh we will share land and I don't see anything about this project that's in violation of that. There is a an exception here, but it's a technicality based on our own laws that are in conflict. Uh that um sets forth, you know, the ability for us to approve this project with um that variance uh of 70 ft versus 100 ft. So, with all that being said, I do um thank the community for showing up tonight to speak. Um, that's always impactful and helpful for us in considering things that we may not think of as folks that don't live in the neighborhood. But I I would like to actually um allow the other commissioners to comment, but I would like to make the motion to approve this project. >> I will come back around for motions after comments from commissioners. Any other commissioner would like to make comment? Commissioner Brend Oliver, >> I too want to thank everybody. This is I've only been here since January and this is flipping my head. Um I completely understand your positions. I'm frustrated too with some of these things that our state has chosen to do. Unfortunately, we our hands are tied. Um, I would love to vote no against this, but it's and that is nothing personal to the owner. I just I'm not um our hands are tied and I and I just really uh apologize. But what I do hear from the owner and and keep in mind on this too, there is no promise that he will be the builder. this is his land today and it may exchange hands tomorrow when he has a vested track map and it's worth something. So, um but we are we are listening to you and I just want to do my due diligence is the higher levels we need to see changed um so that we can have what other people want. >> Thank you, Commissioner Bren Oliver. Commissioner Martin. Yeah, this one's um and I got some of my opinion out earlier, so I won't take much time, but um this is a tough one. Yeah, I grew up on property and I saw the the land developed across from that acreage into homes and um and so it's real close to my heart because it is it is tough. And with that said, you know, we have to follow uh the the confines as my fellow commissioners have said as as the law. And so whereas I I heard everybody well um tonight and I understand it and it's a very passionate um plea from those that are neighbors who are worried about you know losing um you know some of the you know the essence of the current neighborhood and and unfortunately on the other side in defense of the of the owner and hearing what you're saying too I mean you you have to be able to build materials all these things are more and we have a growing city that's rapidly growing. We're one of the fastest growing cities in the state and that does mean housing and so whereas it is very tough. um you know per and and on our end as a commission if there's something to your point sir that the the homes uh you know are 30 ft away from the fence but they could technically be 5t whatever we can do a lot of this is is California controlled and with AUD everything else that we're dealing with but whatever we can do as a commission and that's for a later discussion but I think we should potentially look at that I appreciate staff at missing saying that we are looking at at those updates for residential and I think we should do that as a commission But right now, the rules and the laws that we have on the books currently, I do not see that we have a right to take to say to a land owner um that they can't do this when they're following our rules. They're following uh the state and they're following this city's ordinances on planning. And that would be that would be a dis a disservice and not following our duty as a as a planning commission. whether we feel the emotion and whether we understand it uh human to human or not, he has a right to do this on his land. And um if and so with that um I'll get off of my soap box and thank you for everybody for coming out. We need to hear from the public like this so that we can hear these issues and try to make the best informed decision that we can for our community. Um, and so with that, um, I would, um, if there's no other commissioner comments, I would second Commissioner Neil. >> No, no, there's no second yet. No motion on the floor yet. One second. >> Yeah. >> And then then we'll open it back up. >> Okay. >> I I just wanted to mimic the same thing my my commissioners have said. Um, we sat in here about a year ago and went through development plan, status updates, state law. We're going to do that again here soon. I think next week I'm meeting with Phil to do that again. And and a lot of the topics we talked about are what we're seeing today. We talked about the state allowances of going down to 4,500t square foot lots, the state allowances of narrower roads, right? Allowing no parking on these streets. So we get it. The removal of parking minimums in areas, right? Before you couldn't build a facility without having to have minimum parking. So we had these huge streets and we had these huge parking lots for nothing. And that's all gone away. The state's just kind of pushed that. We're we're here tonight because our standards don't match the state requirements that we've adopted. If this was a 70 foot by 70 square foot, it would still meet the minimum as long as our code match. It wouldn't even come here. It' just be approved by exception. And it's only here tonight because we just haven't gotten our development standards to match state law. And that's the unfortunate part. It's not that we're not listening. We don't agree. It doesn't take a lot of thought to look at Google Maps on this and see, hey, this is two small buildings in the middle of four buildings. We just don't have any power to do anything about that. It meets development standards. It meets state law. The state is pushing us to build more housing, and this is what we're going to see on the fringes. We may continue to see these large lots for people looking to get away from the city, but these infill projects are going to continue to be smaller lots. They're going to be continue to be closer to the fence line. They're going to continue to do this throughout the state. That's the state's mandate. Even doing this, even accepting these, we can't build houses fast enough. I I'm certain once this vested tenative track map is approved, a design for the house up, they'll sell in no time. It's just we we sell houses as soon as we build them. And that's what the state's pushing. So, you may hear us approve it tonight potentially. I don't know. There's no motion on the floor yet, but it's not because we're in support. I'm not I'm not against the builder either. It's not that we're saying this is great. we want to put these six houses right in the middle of your neighborhood. It's we're just doing what the commission's allowed to do by the state. Um, so I I really appreciate the feedback and and I just want to address the reason we're not really asking for a continuence or a table with what Commissioner Martin, Neil, Brent Oliver, and myself have said in this. I think it's clear that if we continued it for two weeks for more people to show up, it'd be the same answer. We we can't find reason in a project like this to deny it. So with that, I believe there was a motion. and I'm going to kick it back over to Comm Commissioner Neil to make that motion. >> So, I would like to make a motion to um accept staff's recommendation to approve the project. >> I'll second. >> I have a motion from Commissioner Martin and a second from com I have a motion from Commissioner Neil and a second from Commissioner Martin to accept. Uh Commissioners, please cast your vote. Motion passes with Commissioner Kater absent. >> Thank you, Madam Clerk. >> Excuse me, chair. May I read the appeal? >> Yes, Missing. You sure can. You may appeal a commission decision to the city council by submitting your request in writing to the city council in care of the city clerk within 10 days from the date of the commission's decision. Your appeal must state the reason for the appeal and your relationship to the project and there will be a filing fee related to the appeal. Thank you. Currently, the filing fee is $1,726. Thank you. Missing. Madame clerk, next item please. >> Item 5B. >> Uh, missing, before this, could we take like a three minute recess to let people clear out? And also, I drank too much water, so I need to >> Thank you. >> I just want to thank you. >> I understand. The appeal fee goes toward the advertisement and staff time to prepare the documents for the appeal hearing. Okay, thank you. >> We're on a break for I don't know the five five minutes. Five minute break. Thank you. Play the music. [Music] We [Music] [Music] behave. [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] Hey. Everybody, [Music] hey, [Music] [Music] Hey, [Music] hey hey. [Music] Heat. Heat. Hey, [Music] hey hey. [Music] feel. Hey [Music] Hey, [Music] hey hey. [Music] [Music] baby. Heat. Heat. N. [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] All All right. There's no real notice on this, so I'm just going to say we're uh we're live again. Uh, madame clerk, next item, please. >> Agenda item 5A. No, 5B. >> 5B, pardon me. >> Miss Ing, will you or staff give your presentation on agenda item 5B? I'd like to introduce uh assistant planner Yazid Aliggaryi. >> Good evening, commissioners. My name is Isid Aliggaryi and I am an assistant planner with the city's planning division. I will be presenting agenda item 5B, conditional use permit 24-0010. The applicant is PDA Inc. on behalf of the property owner Upscale Union LLC. The project is located at 2930 Union Avenue, just south of Bernard Street on approximately 26 acres. The project site is zoned C2 regional commercial, which allows for gathering uses such as movie theaters, restaurants, bowling alleys. The general plan designation is GC, general commercial. The applicant is requesting a conditional use permit to allow a banquet venue. The one-story 9578T commercial building was previously an auto repair shop that had ceased operations and has been vacant for some time. If the request is approved, only 3565 square feet of the area shall be used as a banquet venue, while the other 613 square feet shall be used as a storage to store tables, chairs, decorative furnishings, and other items used for the events scheduled on site. The site shall have enhanced landscaping along Quincy Street, and new exterior paint. Staff recommends approval of the project, and that concludes my presentation. Thank you. Thank you, Yazid. The public hearing is now open. Is there anyone who wishes to speak in favor of the project? If so, please step to the microphone, identify yourself, and proceed. Good evening. My name is Jeremy Manning, PDA, Inc., uh the project architect for this project. Uh, I just wanted to say that um I understand the concerns and I've addressed those with the owner and this is the plan we came up with. Um, I also think this is also beneficial because that area in particular is very rundown and this will be a help to vitalize that space. Um, and kind of help make that area just a little bit more presentable and hopefully encourage other people to to take over some of the other spaces and do the same thing. So, um just hope uh ask you guys consider approving this project and I look forward to any questions or statements that I need to make. Thank you. >> Thank you, Mr. Manning. Is there anyone else who would like to speak in favor of the project? Seeing none, is there anyone who wishes to speak in opposition to the project? If so, please step forward to the microphone, identify yourself, and proceed. >> Hello, David Aragon. Um I am the property just uh east of the proposal for this project. Um my main concern is um so we already uh on Flower Street we do already have a venue place and um there's already been issues with parking. Uh I have a garage access uh alley access to the garage. People have parked there where I can't drive my vehicle in and it's just it's it becomes a headache and um I just learned to deal with it. um and park in the front and whatnot. But um with this um with that other venue though um parking issues, noise, trash, um I see this I mean I'm all for it. I agree. Um the this the area needs to get re re um refreshed and whatnot that has been vacant for probably like six months now. Um give or take. But um I oppose it for just because um noise is going to be an issue. I know they're going to be operating from a certain time to midnight, but just because they so noise is a big issue. Music, it's a venue. Um that's, you know, that's going to be going on. I have my kids uh their rooms and me and my wife, they're right along that uh alley access right there. So, we're going to be listening to all that. and then people leaving. Um, you just put yourself in this situation. You know, people who are going to be, you know, I I believe they're not going to be serving alcohol, but people are going to take alcohol, you know, like come on. They're going to uh drink um trash. I already have issues with the the other venue, you know, people leaving beer bottles and whatnot, and I I can already see this happening. Um, so trash. um after hours people um let's say uh yes they close at midnight but people might be uh lowering for a little bit longer you know in the parking lot music playing you know you know what I mean a lot of scenarios could happen and you know it would be nice if everything was so fluid you know yes it ends at 12 and it'd be nice everyone took off but that's not going to be the case um um um so I'm against it for those reasons um and um Just trying to think what else. Um I should have wrote this down, but um crash noise. Um parking situations as I mentioned. Um let's say both venues are operating at the same time. It's just going to be chaos right there. Streets are small as it is. People uh park in the front. Um it's just going to become a headache. People are going to come home and they're not going to be able to park and they're going to have to, you know, find another parking issue or location. It's just, you know, just thinking ahead and um and my biggest thing is like who's going to like the trash situation. I mean, I normally clean up. I try to do my best and everything, but like who ultimately like is the city responsible for that like um or the you know, it's all, you know, the homeowners right there. Um and um and um I think that's it for me on I appreciate your your time. >> Thank you, David. And before you step away, could you spell your last name? I didn't catch it. >> A R A G O N. >> So is it Argon? >> Aragon. >> Aragon. Aragon. Thank you, sir. Thank you, Mr. Aragon. >> You're welcome. >> Is there anyone else in the audience who wishes to speak in opposition to the project? Hi, I'm Renee Marquez and I live uh on 12 Quincy just uh two houses away. I've been in the neighborhood for 55 years and um with the other venue sometimes I arrive home and I have to park on the street. I can't park in my alley because of the homeless situation. It's not safe. It's scary back there. So, um, when I come home sometimes there's nowhere to park and it's it's scary for me because I have to walk into the house by myself and park my car down and then later after everybody leaves at midnight try to go move my car back. So, I'm just concerned with another venue in the area. Also, we have the pawn shop, we have the Arco, and then we had the Minute Stop liquor store already. It's like um you know um the concern of what's going on in the neighborhood. So it was a nice little neighborhood. I like to um I I like um things that will make it look better and um improve it, but I also concerned about um the area and the like he said the trash and stuff. um cleaning up the alley especially after the homeless and um sometimes with uh I had an issue a month ago where my trash didn't get picked up for a month because of working in the street. Somebody's line fell. So you put your can out, the city doesn't come, the homeless comes and dumps it and then we're left out there. I'm out there in the alley cleaning. I know David does a good job. And then he's got two kids under the age of three that are going to be next door to this venue. That's I I feel for him to have two babies sleeping in their bedroom is next across the alley from where this is going to be proposed. I'm just um that's my concerns. So, thank you. Thank you, Miss Marquez. I appreciate that. Is there anyone else who wish to speak in opposition to the project? So, I'm Ivan Roas. I am the owner of 8 Quincy Street, just across of David. Um, I'mma be right in the middle of both venues. I, as well, struggle with parking. U, my garage is on the alleyway. Uh, when they have events at the venue on Flower, I can't get into my garage. I have to either park on the street and if there's two like two venues going on at the same time, I'm going have to park way down the street or on Union. And Union is a very public, very used street. Um, so there could be an accident and who knows what else. The parking I did see that they only have five spaces and I think code is um up to five occupants per space. So that's about 30 and I think it's 50. I mean I know the street you could use that but I mean that's going to be way more than 50 people at a venue. So that's one of my concerns as well. >> Thank you Mr. Roas. Is there anyone else who would like to speak in opposition to the project? Seeing none, does any commissioner have questions for the public on this item? Remember, this is not the time to express any opinions. This is only the time to ask questions. Commissioner Brandt Oliver. I have a question for the architect. Um Jeremy, can you explain the reasoning behind using half well 60% of the building for storage versus the small amount? Is there a code requirement that needed that drove that or Uh yeah, specifically um parking. It is very light on parking and we designed a space to accommodate uh why the venue is so small and so much more of a storage or or non-usable space for the venue is because there is limited parking in that space. Um, so that's the planning requirement. This city ordinance is what drove the size of the space. >> I have I have a question for staff. Sorry. >> Go ahead. Commission Oliver. Yeah. >> Um, has two questions. First is are there any restrictions on how many venues can have a conditional use permit for uh a similar item within a certain radius? >> There's no quantity limitation in our ordinance. >> In our ordinance. Yep. Okay. And then one more question. Should the applicant use the building should should it get approved? Should the conditional use permit get approved and should the applicant be found using that storage area for anything but storage, what I'm assuming the conditional use permit can be revoked at that point. What are the what is the procedure for the residents um should something like that occur? It's usually through a quote code enforcement action. And yes, a conditional use permit uh may come back to the planning commission for additional review um uh either to revoke the conditional use permit or amend the conditional use permit to add or subtract conditions of approval depending on the situation. So, we just want them to learn how that process works and they would need to call code enforcement should something other than what's written in this document should it get approved. That's their >> that is correct. >> Okay. >> Commissioner Martin, uh you you could raise your hand at this point. It seems the request to speak is hit or miss. >> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, I do have a question for staff under Bakersville Municipal Code 9.2.090. Uh, it's it specifies amplified sound especially critical for event venues. That amplified sound, DJ speakers, etc. Requires registration of permit. Okay. File at least two working days before the event. Operating hours when amplified sound is allowed is is 9:00 a.m. to 6 p.m. daily. extended hours 9:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m. Um, if the venue is in a commercial zone or industrial zone or if there's no special permit issued. So, I guess my question and I used to manage a a venue years ago, so this was always something that came up um is sound. Um, and I also know in our municipal code, um, I'm just my question is how did they get the not to the to the midnight uh hour here and does this commission have the authority to revise that to make it a lesser time? >> Commissioner Martin, the section you mentioned, I believe that's when we issue an amplified sound permit. um that doesn't apply to a business of this nature. That would apply to like if you wanted a permit to use amplified sound at a park or at a or at a a public location that is regulated by the city. So, when we're looking at the particular project, they wouldn't have to get an amplified sound permit. That's separate and apart. >> Um in terms of the hours of operation, I believe that's something that the applicant requested. Um the commission can definitely propose a new hours of operation if that's what the commission wants. >> And thank you very much for and one more question for staff. Is there homes how close is the closest resident to this venue because I understand it's there's a lot going on in that area. I was just pulling it up. I would estimate 60 to 70 ft away. >> Okay. Thank you very much. That's my uh only questions for now. Thank you. >> Thank you, Commissioner Martin. Commissioner Core. >> Um I don't know who this question is will be for. So they're only uh saying that there will be 50 guests in 3500 ft² building and is there a way of finding out later that they're not renting out the space for larger party? 3500 ft is a big building for just 50 guest party. Um or is it just they're putting that number of guests so they have only 10 parking spaces available. So they're building it because of that. >> I believe that question should be directed to the applicant. >> Um so one item to consider is that the actual venue space for functions is really only about 800 50 square feet, not the 3500. The 3500 actually includes storage specifically for venue like chairs and stuff like that and uh the restrooms and a serving area, but the actual space for congregating is actually considerably less. >> Okay. And then there are six parking spots available on Quincy and the rest I think is in the alleyway. What's stopping your guests to not park on the rest of the Quincy Street? >> I can only control the our property under the municipal code and the building code. I cannot control any what they do after the fact. I can only tell you what I have planned for based on my conversations and agreement with the owner and what he's agreed to. If something else happens after that, I cannot answer that. I >> Okay. All right. Thank you. >> We hang there, Mr. Manding, for a second. I got a question for you, too. It's on the storage. I know the plan shows the storage. Do you know what are you designing anything for that storage or is it just going to be as is today? >> No, it's going to be asis >> because it used to be like a body shop, right? >> Um, it was some sort of body shop garage. >> Okay. So, it's just a big open space. Right now, you're not doing anything with that. You're just doing the permitting and the rest of the building changes, blocking off the door, and that's it. >> Mhm. >> Okay. Thank you. That I think that's it for for you, Mr. Manning. Uh I just had a question. >> Oh, one question. >> Oh. Oh, okay. Sorry. >> It's for the staff. Um do they need a permit for the event? If they're having any party or anything, do they need to apply for a permit? >> The permit is a conditional use permit. >> Okay. Not for every single event. They don't need to. Not for individual events. No. >> Okay. Resuming questions. I had some questions for the city. Um, listening to the opposition speak. One mentioned they're not going to have alcohol. And I just want the city to confirm that there's no condition against having alcohol. The applicant actually has a condition of approval around alcohol. Correct. >> That is correct. There's a condition of approval in the in the staff report that requires them to meet all of the ABC alcohol beverage and control district requirements first which are more restrictive than any city uh ordinance. >> Sure. But the city's not restricting this from sell serving alcohol in some fashion. Whatever as long as it's legal, they can do that. There's no restriction against that. >> That is correct. We we are not restricting it, but they do need to follow state law. >> Understood. And then also I just want to point out a couple of things that I think help on the conditions of approval. Although that's an opinion. Uh a couple of things that may help. Um can the city at least explain the expectation of condition item 3C? That's uh the permit holder shall provide at least one security at each event. That's a standard condition for these types of um uses is to provide on-site security manage the parking and crowd control. >> Okay. And should the neighboring residents I I don't know how they would, but let's say everything else is code enforcement questions, you know, or code enforcement, right? They've kept a dirty parking lot. They've I don't know all the other ones except for security. That's not really a code enforcement thing, right? who who manages, you know, if they're having a party and there's no security on site, but their condition is security. Is that a code enforcement complaint still? >> Well, the city would need to be made aware of this situation and it's usually through code enforcement. >> Okay. So, any concerns go to code enforcement regardless. Okay. Just want to make sure we have that avenue. And then I just had a question for the public first. Um, anyone can answer all three. In this staff package, there was a letter that the applicant had sent out, a community outreach letter, and it had a manager, her name is Stephanie, and she had her number at the bottom. Did you each receive that letter? >> Okay. >> Her name was Samantha. >> Samantha, you're right. I was I was quizzing you. You sure did. So, you did receive it. Did you reach out? Sorry. Could you step forward now at this point? I'm sorry, Mr. Uh >> Aragon. >> Yeah, I did receive it. Um, I didn't reach out to it cuz I I planned on coming to here cuz um cuz >> I know she's I had the idea that she would be leaning towards like, you know, like all for it and everything and I know here I could come and speak my voice and you it's you know you it's going to go it's going to be uh voted in and what not. So I was like I that's why I didn't talk to her or get in contact with her. >> Okay. Sure. Thank you. And then uh just for the city, one final question. We're not asking for a condition of like a good neighbor policy. We're not mandating that the manager of this facility reach out to a resident and provide contact. That's that's something they've done just as part of this. Right. >> Well, the staff has a policy for several types of applications to do um outreach in the neighborhood before we bring it to hearing, public hearing, and the letter was sent out in this case. Yes. Um, one of the findings that uh the commission will consider in approving a conditional use permit is that it is uh harmonious for the ne in within the neighborhood. >> Awesome. Thank you, Mrs. Ing. And then uh I'm going to defer I'm out of questions. I'm going to defer that over to Miss Brent Oliver. >> Do you happen to know what the I'm probably not I should have asked this before. I apologize. the other venue that's right down the street, what their time for shutdown of the music is. Midnight seems a little high be because I've had a wedding recently at a few Well, anyway, 1000 p.m. is anyway. >> Uh, we do not have that information here handy. Sorry. >> Okay. Uh, Mr. Martin, question away. Yeah, just actually for clarification, I think to your question, Mr. Chairman, um alcohol beverage control um traditionally allows this would be like a cater caterers type permit that would allow no more than 58 uh permits a year uh at the at the max to hire somebody like a bartender or something to come in. I know we know uh Commissioner Biddle knows well about these things with ABC and and so but if you take that max um you know at 58 a year you know that's that's more than one you know per week that you'd be dealing with. Um so I just wanted to throw that out there. That's what ABC allows. >> Is there a question? >> No, I would just I was you brought it up earlier and staff didn't know. So I was just clarifying that that's the ABC's rules for you to know. So they could have up to 58 a year with ABC's permission. >> Got it. Thank you, Commissioner Martin. Any other commissioner questions? All right, seeing none, is there anyone in the public who wishes to provide a rebuttal on this item? And I think we it's been a while since we've had a full staff on this. It's uh opposition first, then in favor. >> Yeah, that's correct. >> Okay. Thank you. Is there anyone who wishes to provide a rebuttal on this item? If so, please be prepared to step to the podium. Each site will only have five minutes, so make your comments succinctly without repeating the remarks of the previous speaker to ensure that everyone wishing to provide a rebuttal has had a chance to. Seeing no rebuttal in opposition, do we still go to in favor opposite rebuttal? >> You can call it out. >> Okay. Uh, is there anyone in favor that would like to provide rebuttal? Um, I do want to offer a maybe something to kind of help particularly with the sound. If you look at the floor plan, the venue is not quite in the middle, a little to the left of the middle, but there's a large area with the restrooms, a vestibule, and a storage area. and then a changing room and a long hallway on the north side of the building. U it won't stop the sound, but it will help buffer the sound. So, I don't think you'll get as much of a um as much sound traveling as you would if if we were up right up against the exterior wall. So, I'm kind of hope that helps alleviate some of the concern. There's no way to stop sound perfectly, but I think it will help quite a bit. So, >> thank you, Mr. Manning. >> Is there anyone else who wishes to speak in rebuttal in uh favor or support? >> You could just take it reverse, I guess. Yeah, that's fine. >> Uh yeah, you go ahead. Yeah. Yeah. >> Just restart the clock, madam madam clerk. >> Yeah. One second. We're going to restart the clock for opposition and then we'll just do it reverse. >> I just wanted to Okay. I just wanted to um Oh, sorry. >> All right. Thank you. Um I just wanted to um Yes. regarding the sound um but um issue but I is there something in place? I know um uh Martin brought up about the other venue on Flower with the time frame and whatnot. Um if there was a specific time frame that they're operating under, would they have to follow that particular uh outline um as well? Or and then um the other question the sound I mean you can manufacture it out a little like depending on like uh you know you sound like soundproof uh panels and whatnot. Is that something that can happen? And um and um the drinking situation because I was under the impression no uh drinking was going to be involved. And so so that just you know opens you know a can of worms for me because um like I said um my house is probably 50 feet away. Um I know she had mentioned 60. I mean, for all I know, it could be a little closer, but um people drinking and driving, you know, that's just going to put my family in danger now because I got six uh uh parking spots. People could be backing out and back into my uh my my fence. You know, I'm just thinking ahead. You know, accidents do happen. I understand that and everything, but um that that drinking factor kind of like, you know, bugs me now because um like I said, my family, we all sleep on that side and and um all it takes is one, you know, uh mistake and that could be fatal and um my and um yeah. Um yeah, that's all I got. >> Thank you, Mr. Aragon, I appreciate that. >> Is there anyone else who would like to speak in rebuttal in opposition? Hi, >> I'm Renee Marquez again. Okay. My I didn't know it was till midnight. I I like the 10:00 better because I do live alone and if I have to go move my car down the street, I don't want to be out there after midnight walking up the block to put my car in front of my house. And so that was another I didn't know it was that late, too. Thank you. Thank you, Miss Marquez. Is there anyone else who would like to speak in rebuttal in opposition? Okay, seeing none, I will now close the public hearing on this item and return it to commission for comment and action. Commissioner Brandt Oliver, I can see you out of the corner of my eye, so that counts good enough for raising your >> Sorry, I'm very chatty tonight. Goodness. Um, must have found my, you know, way here. Um, I hear you. I'm glad that the residents who live right next door have shown up. Disappointed the owner didn't show up. Appreciate the architect. Completely disappointed the owner did not show up. That shows me a lot as a commissioner. And this is something we do have power on. Um, it's a permit. It's conditions. And I I'm hearing everything you're saying. I'm feeling that one thing that I've noticed about events is that they leak out of the building. I mean, we're we're very aware of that. And um that is why I think it's tough that the applicant has um I'm kind of disagreeing with the applicants ask for midnight because things don't just shut down the minute their thing closes. So I I'm very in favor I would like my fellow commissioners to consider modifying item 3B to something like 10 o'clock. But I'm just throwing it out there. I'm not making a motion. I want everybody to make their comments. But that's my personal feeling. >> Done. >> Oh, okay. Sorry. >> Yeah. And I just maybe a comment to consider as I seek comments from others. Maybe this is something that's worth shelving and then seeing if we can ask the applicant to come talk on some of this just because there seems to be confusion. There's public outreach and discussion and I don't know how comfortable I feel mandating someone's business for them, right? They asked for midnight. They had a reason for asking for it. We, you know, any anyway, let me hear other comments first, but I just want to keep that as an idea, too. >> Uh, Commissioner Martin, >> thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yeah, I think and um, Miss uh, Marquez and Mr. Aragon, thank you for for voicing that. I think my concern and and I agree with uh Commissioner Bran Oliver that you know midnight's a little bit late and to your point nothing ends right at midnight right I managed a fan venue on 19th Street for several years and I had to plead to get people out by midnight which usually turned into 1:00 by the time I'm please you guys got to go we're going to get in trouble and I I just managed it um and so that never happens and also to your point it does tend to seep out and if we were talking in a different area, but we're talking about having residential homes within 50 60 ft of an event venue that can go until midnight every day of the week. I think that's um that's improper. That's improper. And I I think 1000 p.m. is very appropriate. If you want to have a vent venue that you want to build out somewhere else, that's great. But not when you're 50 ft from a residential home. People have jobs, people have children, and uh people got to go to sleep. And as it as we just said earlier, that 10 p.m. is probably going to leak leak into 11 a lot. It will because you're cleaning up, you're pushing out people that may or may not be drinking, what have you. That's between ABC and the owner. Um, but I'd like to hear from any other commissioners, but I agree with that and I'd be willing to make that motion to amend this to say 10 p.m. That's my comments right now. If it, Mr. chairman. >> All right. I I'll just I'll make I'll make just a couple of comments again. Mr. Aragon, Miss Marquez, Mr. Ross, thank you for staying way too late for something like this. I really appreciate you bringing it up and uh you know, it's something that this is not on necessarily the the the in the architect here, Mr. Manning. I appreciate you sticking with us, too. I it's a it's a weird position for the timeline for the request. Although I will say that to me midnight when it includes the tear down I don't think is that abnormal if we're thinking of a party from 8:00 a.m. to midnight Yeah. Yeah. That's late. If the application request is to close at midnight and closing close up I've been to events before that end at 10 and then there's two hours of clean up to get out of there. So, I'm really hesitant to just say, "No, let's restrict them further without any information on it." I'm not a big fan of just mandating it. You know, we do have a request from the applicant for that timeline. They have a business reason. We don't know that business reason. I don't think it's fair for us to say we know better than them for the neighborhood without at least hearing that out. So, I I'll support whatever motion happens. I just want to restress maybe it's better on this motion to request a continuence ask a little more information try and reach out some public comment you know we've got stuff in the conditions of approval that the public have not seen or are not aware of their concerns maybe that's sufficient for this and then that gives the applicant a chance for themselves to come down and have that discussion before we just go mandate their business um >> with all due respect if I can Mr. chairman, they knew that this was going to be on the agenda tonight and I think that that is a waste of our time to hear it again because they couldn't make it down here and maybe they had an emergency or something else, but we've made it here. Um, so with that, I guess I I'd like to make a motion to approve this and Vir probably need some help here to approve this, but would the amendment that this venue uh that it be restricted to 10 p.m. uh Monday through Sunday? So the motion would be to approve the CUP modifying condition of approval 3B as in boy that the hours of operation would be from 8:00 a.m. to 1000 p.m. >> Yes, ma'am. Thank you. >> Commissioners, we do have a motion for approval with the condition for hours of operation. We would look for a second. >> I'll second that. >> Second it. Um before we vote, just wild card. If this fails, is there another motion sought after or is that We're not voting no on the whole package at this point, just that specific motion. >> You're voting for the whole thing right now. So if it fails, then someone can make another motion. >> Commissioners, cast your vote. Motion to approve item 5B with an amendment. Approved with Commissioner Kater and Commissioner Neil absent. Thank you, Madam Clerk. Next item, please. >> Agenda item seven, communications. >> Excuse me. May I read the appeal? >> Yeah. Yeah. Sorry, I'm missing. >> You may appeal a commission decision to the city council by submitting your request in writing to the city council with with the city clerk within 10 days from the date of the commission's decision. Your appeal must state the reason for the appeal and your relation to the project. You are a property owner within the 300 foot notice area. There will be no filing fee. Thank you. >> Thank you, Missing. Madame Clerk, next item please. >> Agenda item seven, communications. >> Does staff have any communication items? >> Um, yes, chair. Um, you may have noticed that you've been you've been g getting emails through the city's website portal. Um just know that staff is monitoring that website portal and we are uh inventory collecting the the emails and inventoring them um and pro and uh they will be provided again to the commission when that particular topic is agendaized for your consideration. We are also sending a reply to each sender acknowledging that we have received their email and it is being um stored for future uh consideration. I'd also like to uh announce that the state has approved the city's housing element. Yay. And uh we expect this item to come to your September 4th meeting um to see a preview of the housing element. The draft is still available on the website. We are working with the consultant to provide you a clean copy of that and you should have that um sometime early next week. Uh and then we again we'll see you September 4th. So thank you very much. >> Thank you Missing. Madame clerk, next item please. >> Agenda item eight, commissioner comments. >> Does any commissioner have any comments? And I'm gonna just surprisingly Commissioner Brent Oliver. So, sorry. I just want to follow up on that in case anybody's watching on YouTube or whatever that it will be several months possibly before the Caesar Chavez renaming thing maybe even comes up, right? I mean, >> that's correct. >> Somebody clarify that. >> We don't have a a date yet. We don't have anything. >> It's still in the early stages and so we will we'll notify the public with advanced notice. Thank you. >> Okay. I I just one comment on the last item. You know, I just want to caution that advisory boards like this work well with data and information. I've made comments before on city staff that, hey, I'd like to see this stuff included so we have more information. and the public doesn't know what you know the the applicants here who live right next door didn't know all this stuff and and I think sometimes it's okay to pump the brakes put stuff back on the agenda instead of just approving for an applicant here you pay an architect to come file for you show up for you that's what they do that applicant may not be aware of the appearance of them coming down so I I just I caution decisions like that it's there's no harm in pushing it back two weeks it doesn't change anything there is harm if we had voted no on and then he loses his entire application for, you know, a split decision. So, Miss Missing, >> um, I'd just like to make a couple of remarks. Staff does remind the applicant and the property owner that is scheduled for planning commission consideration and we do request that they attend. Um and then also once the public hearing is closed and it is referred back to staff for a future meeting, there is an advertisement cost in which city the city has to pay as opposed to the first hearing where it's included in the application fee. So there is a cost involved. Thank you. >> Thank you, Miss Wing. And and I think that just summarized my comments anyway. So uh madame clerk, next item, please. Agenda item nine, adjournment. >> The August 21st, 2025 planning commission meeting is adjourned at 7:31 p.m. [Music]