[0:00] [Music] Feel like a Tuesday, does it? Yeah. [Music] I call to order the Rosemont Planning Commission meeting for Tuesday, May 27th. Please stand for the pledge of allegiance. [0:21] I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. [0:36] The first item on our agenda this evening is our annual election of chair and vice chair. So we will start with election of chairperson. Are there any nominations from the floor for the position of chairperson? I'd like to nominate Mr. Hanninger second. [0:52] It has Okay, I got to follow this. We do this annually. We um would someone like to make a motion to close the nominations. Move to close the nominations. Second. Second. It's been moved by Commissioner Reed, seconded by Commissioner Beer to close the nominations. All those in favor, please say I. I. I. [1:19] Um, would anyone like to make You've got the Someone's got this on their thing. I can't I can't do it myself. Oh, okay. Um, let's see. For the chairperson. Yep. I would like I would like to nominate Listen Kenninger as a chairperson for planning commission for uh by unanimous consent to the position of chairperson. [1:41] Is there a second? Second. It has been moved by Commissioner Reid, seconded by Commissioner Bugai. All those in favor, please say I. I. I. Opposed. I will continue to serve as your chairperson. Thank you for that honor. Um, now we'll move on to vice chair. Are there nominations from the floor for vice chair? Nominate Commissioner Reid. [2:05] Okay. Any other nominations? Okay. I will make a motion to close the nominations. Is there a second? Second. It has been moved by Commissioner Bugai or Commissioner Kenneder and seconded by Commissioner Bugai to close the nominations. All those in favor, please say I. I. I. I will let you. And I'm honored to serve as vice chair. Oh, we got we got to elect you first, though. This one right here. [2:30] We're the only nominee, so odds are good. Make a motion to elect Reed by unanimous consent. Okay. Would anyone like to make a motion to elect uh Commissioner Reid by unanimous consent to the position of vice chair? We will consider you just making that motion. [2:45] I'll make that motion. I will second it. It has been moved by Commissioner Beer, seconded by Commissioner Kener to nominate Commissioner Reid as vice chair. All those in favor, please say I. I. I. Opposed. Motion carries. Mr. and we usually have our act together much better than this. It's all on me for throwing things off. [3:09] We got through it. Okay. Are there any additions to tonight's agenda? Madam Chair, there are no additions. Thank you. Now that we stumbled through the election, we're we're going to breeze through. Is there any input from the audience on items on tonight that are not on tonight's agenda? [3:26] Okay, seeing none, we'll move forward to our consent agenda, which includes the minutes of the April 22nd regular meeting. Are there any comments or questions on the consent agenda? I was not here for the meeting. However, I have read the minutes and I have watched video. So, I will be voting tonight on the consent agenda. Someone want to make a motion to approve the consent agenda. Make a motion to approve the consent agenda. [3:53] Second. It has been moved by Commissioner Reid, seconded by Commissioner Beadner. All those in favor, please say I. I. Opposed. The consent agenda is approved. We have no old business tonight. So, we will move forward with our public hearing section this evening. We have two public hearing items this evening. The first is a request by Flint Hills Resources for an IUP interim use permit to construct a warehouse tent. And I will turn this over to Anthony. [4:25] Thank you, Madam Chair. This is a pretty straightforward request by Flint Hills Resources uh to construct a warehouse tent, which would be considered a type of temporary structure at their Pineben refinery. Um, it's very similar to an existing interim use permit that was approved by the city in 2019 uh for some other temporary buildings uh such as blast resistant modules and tents as well as some warehouse tents similar to uh the building being proposed by the applicant this evening. As I said, there was a 2019 IUP that was approved and in place. [5:01] Uh staff is recommending that the term for this interim use permit uh be the same as that one or the expiration date be the same as the uh currently existing IUP just so that it makes the renewal a much easier uh and more straightforward process as well. Uh, also note that the uh, proposed structure is within the blanket agreement area, which is an area that was approved uh, and agreed upon between the city and uh, Flint Hills Resources that would allow them to make changes to the location of those temporary buildings, those blast resistant modules and tents and other uh, structures. Uh so they do have a bit of flexibility within that area and they have come to the city uh and other times just to uh inform us that they were [5:47] going to be moving some of those things around uh within that uh blanket agreement area which I will show the commission here shortly. So the site of the proposed uh warehouse uh tent is in the very southern portion of the site. Uh you can see Highway 52 on the eastern portion of this uh aerial photo. Uh west of here you can see Blaine Avenue which turns into Rich Valley Boulevard uh and the Flint Hills Resources uh solar uh array along either side of that that road as well. Uh also note on this aerial, you'll see two of those temporary uh warehouse structures in the northwest uh portion of this site here. [6:33] Elsewhere throughout the site, as I mentioned, there are some other temporary structures uh throughout the refinery area. Those are highlighted in red there. Um the two uh uh warehouse structures that I noted uh as well as uh the blast resistant modules and uh tents in this portion of this uh site as well as some that are closer to Highway 52. [6:57] And without going into too much detail, those blast resistant modules are areas where the um uh staff out at the refinery can do uh work, take their breaks in a safe environment uh when they're at at work and doing their their jobs. So this is that uh blanket agreement area. uh this is uh oriented so north is to the right but the in September 2014 it did increase the the overall uh area size here. So the the uh what would be on the left side of this image in the southern portion of the site was added to the blanket area agreement in 2014. [7:42] Um so the the proposed building as I said is more of a it's a warehouse tent. It's kind of a semi- rigid structure uh with uh roof trusses. Here's a here's a elevation looking from one of the ends of the tent. Um very similar to the other ones that are out there as I said earlier. So in order to prove an app prove an IUP, uh six findings must be made um or five findings, pardon me. uh those are listed out here before you basically uh going over whether they are in conformance with the uh purpose and intent and goals of the comp plan and uh the zoning ordinance uh whatever impacts there might be on traffic congestion. Uh there are there are no changes proposed [8:28] with this. Um there isn't going to be any uh uh detriment to the existing character or development in the immediate area. fits right in with the existing uh site as well as the uh existing buildings that have already been approved. Uh the last two uh the interim uses as you know are uh interim use permits are used to to allow for a a set time frame uh to accommodate uh future development in the area. As this is located entirely within the refinery, there's no concerns that this would uh impede normal and or orderly development. And then um lastly that it conforms to all Apple code pole regulations of the zoning district uh which it does with regards to setbacks. [9:14] But um uh there are no um uh existing or uh future planned parking facilities that this would have to adhere to either. So that being said, staff is uh recommending approval uh subject to the six conditions before you. Uh those were taken from the existing uh interim use permit and carried over here. Just note on a couple of these. Um the expiration date of 2029. It's a shorter term than we would normally have for an IUP, but as I said, uh staff felt it uh more more straightforward to just have it align with the uh other interim use permit that's in place. So that when it comes time to re renew, we just renew one for the for everything that's been approved so far. Um and then uh there were a [10:02] couple other other items here uh that it is limited to the blanket agreement area. That means if they do move it uh they wouldn't need to come back for approval, but uh it would have to stay in that area uh and further than 300 ft from Rich Valley. Um and then that the applicant would pay pay property taxes on uh the structures based on their value rather than um seeking a waiver or appealing the valuation uh with the county assessor's office. So staff is happy to take any questions the commission may have. The applicant is present also we can speak to this or any other operational type questions. Thank you Anthony. Are there any questions for staff? Okay. This item is a public hearing item. So at this time we will [10:48] open up the public hearing. Anyone in the audience who would like to speak on this item may do so at this time coming to the podium stating your name and address for the [11:01] record. Seeing none, I will make a motion to close the public hearing. Second. It has been moved by Commissioner Kenneder, seconded by Commissioner Beer. All those in favor, please say I. I. I. Opposed. Public hearing is now closed. [11:17] Any other questions before we move forward with this item? I'll just say we we did a very in-depth review I think of the first um interim use permit where the number of structures put in place and had a lot of questions and I I I still recall that and so I I I feel comfortable with this is a good addition. [11:37] I would agree. Okay. With that, do you want to make a motion? Sure. I'll make a motion to recommend the city council approve the interim use permit for a warehouse tent subject to the following conditions numbered 1 through six. Second. It has been moved by Commissioner Reid, seconded by Commissioner Bugai. All those in favor, please say I. I. I. Opposed. Motion carries. This item will move forward to city council on June 17th. [12:03] Our next item on our public hearing agenda this evening is a request by Sunny's Car Wash for approval of a site plan review to construct a car wash facility. And I will turn that over to Julia. All [12:23] right. All right. So, a little bit of a summary of the project in front of the commission tonight. So, the planning commission is being asked to consider a request by the applicant and property owner for a site plan review to construct a car wash facility at 2550 149 Street West. Uh, so the subject parcel is a part of the Rosewood Center second edition plat area and a zoned MX2, which is highway mixed use um district. Uh, car washes are listed as a use that is permitted with standards in the city zoning code. There are five specific performance standards for car washes that are outlined in the city code and as well as in the staff report u which was part of the agenda packet. [12:58] Um staff has determined that the proposed car wash meets the five specific standards. So a little bit overview of the site location. Uh you can see it's outlined um on this map. So the property again is located at 2550 149 street west which is located in the northwest quadrant of the Biscane Avenue and County Road 42 intersection. Uh like I had mentioned the property is a part of the Rosewood Common Second um sorry Rosewood Center second edition plat area. Um in the spring of 2024 the developer of uh Rosewood Center uh came forward for uh pre preliminary and final plat approval for this uh second addition to create five buildable lots in one outlot. Uh there has been one other development project in this addition that has been approved which is [13:44] today's life childcare center which is shown at that 2634 uh property but this will be that second one uh within that rosewood center second edition plat area. So a little bit of overview of the site uh plan. So the site area is 1.43 acres in size. Again it is zoned MX2 and the comp plan land use designation for the site is CC community commercial. Uh so that proposed site plan shows a car wash facility which includes a 4,600 foot building and also vacuum stations. [14:15] The proposed building will consist of a wash bay for cards to go through and as well as an equipment equipment room control room and a restroom as well. Uh the proposed building is shown to be located in the southeastern side of the site. Um so kind of you can kind of see the um the site plans showing a different outline of what it is. is north to south. Um, so the building is proposed to be on the southeastern side of the site with the parking and vacuum stations located to the west side of the building. The site plan also shows two vacuum motor equipment closures on the property which you can see is located southwest of the building outlined there and as well as northwest of um the building up in this location right here. [15:00] Uh the main entrance into the car wash comes from the northern side of the building which you can see the um three stacking um areas north of the site and then they do exit going south and then to the west. Uh the building parking and equipment enclosures meet all the required setbacks and the site plan also meets the impervious surface requirements for MX2 which um that maximum requirement is 75% and the site plan does show um the impervious cover should be 53%. [15:29] Uh so a little overview of the parking and access um on the site. So access into the site will come from a private drive that extends west over the adjacent parcel to an existing curb cut on 149th Street West. That private drive is shown to extend east and then south south where the um three parking um stacking lanes are shown um that enter into the building. um south of the building. You can see that the private drive then extends west and then north um to exit the car wash building and then um it opens up to that parking and vacuum station area and the parking area extends north to meet back up with that main private road um which that site is accessed by. There are a total of 22 parking stalls shown in the parking lot area with 16 of those stalls having access to vacuums. The applicant also [16:15] did provide an exhibit showing the turning movements of emergency vehicles which was reviewed by the city's fire marshal. Little overview of the landscaping. So, um the applicant did provide a landscaping plan which shows a mix of deciduous and coniferous trees planted throughout the site um which are shown um um near uh right ofways and also along the perimeter of uh the parcel. Um, additional trees are provided in the parking island areas and then open space along the western side uh which includes screening and stacking lanes on the northern and western um or eastern side of the site. Uh the landscape plan does show a total of 61 trees to be planted throughout the site which meets the requirement of 21 trees which that was the required um number for the site. Uh the additional tree [17:01] count do account for the need for additional parking landscaping perimeter landscaping and then also screening requirements. Uh the landscape plan does show 243 foundation plantings to be uh provided on site which exceeds the minimum requirement of 37 foundation plantings. Uh you can see that the foundation plantings are shown to be located on the eastern side of the building and as well as long as the southern boundary that is adjacent to county road 42 and as well as along the western boundary and then some mixed in along the northern boundary as well. [17:35] Uh so the developer of the Rosewood Center second edition plat had requested that park dedication be collected at the time a building permit was issued. Uh so cash dedication for this parcel is $12,870 which that is also a condition of approval with this site plan review. Uh the applicant did submit a phototric plan. So lights on uh throughout the site are a combination of polemounted lights then also LED tube lights which are attached to the vacuum stations. Those will be provided throughout the site. Uh the LED lights will be set up about uh 10 feet high on the vacuum stations and then the um polemounted lights will be 20 feet in height. Uh the applicant submitt of the phototric study does meet um the lighting requirements for commercial [18:22] properties. Little overview of the utility plan. So sewer and water services will be provided by the existing facility uh facilities located 149th Street West. uh and storm water will um exit the site to the storm sewer within 149th Street West. Uh the city's engineer did review the plans and submitted a me memorandum which was a part of the agenda packet. Uh the memo contains general comments related to grading and um also storm water management. Conformance with all requirements of the city engineer is a requirement uh with this approval as well. Uh here's a couple architectural elevations that were submitted. So the building elevations show a mixture of materials uh which include um stone and as well as white and blue fiber cement panels. Uh the MX2 zoning district has a [19:09] requirement of at least 50% of the exterior must um contain stone or brick which um the site plan does show to meet that. Uh the building height is also shown to be 25 ft in height which is below that maximum allowed building height of 35 ft. Then here's a overview of the floor plan. Like I had mentioned earlier, there is a wash bay for where cars go through and then also an equipment room uh directly adjacent to that as well as a control room and a restroom as well. And then here are a couple elevations that were submitted kind of showing a panoramic view of the building. Uh you can see the entrance will be in the is in the lower uh left hand corner. Uh you can see the entrance there and then the exit um on the uh lower right hand side. [19:57] Uh so in front of the commission today there is a motion to approve a site plan reviewing um site plan review allowing the construction of a car wash facility at 2550 149th Street West uh subject to conditions 1 through five. I do also would like to mention that the applicant did hold a neighborhood meeting on May 6 which three residents did attend. Uh there were comments that came up regarding noise, concerns of traffic and walking impacts, car lights and water usage. I do know the applicant is present and is able to speak on some of those um more um complicated questions. [20:32] Um staff can also answer any questions the commission may have. Um but yeah, thank you. Does the commission have any questions for staff? Want to start? Commissioner Reid. Um yes, the and we can ask the uh applicant about the noise, but what are the city standards for noise would apply here? And are there any concerns about the the level of noise from the car wash? [20:56] To my knowledge, there aren't any concerns that came up during our interdep departmental meetings in regards to noise. Um, we do have standards outlined in our police regulations section of our city code in regard to noise levels though. [21:12] Okay. And then can you pull up the landscape plan? I want to make sure and there was one of the conditions not conditions but one of the um requirements is around opacity um and can you just say a little bit more about uh kind of describe how you did in the report about the opacity and tree versus I'm sorry the building versus trees and how that requirement will be met. [21:39] So it does look like the what they had submitted is about 41 trees as a um for screening of that um of that stacking lane area which is 90% screening um which looks to meet our code in regards to um stacking area required for 90% screening at six feet height. So it does look like their landscape plan does meet that. So So the trees and and they're on the left side here, but this would be on the the east and north. So looking on the left hand side that is 149th Street West and then this side um on the um on the upper part of the page is the eastern side of the parcel. [22:21] County Road 42 would be on the right hand side and then the adjacent commercial property would be on the this bottom side. So the parcel's kind of switched a little bit on this landscape plan. is is the expectation that the the landscaping the trees on this diagram on the top wrapping around to the left there would create the 90 90% opacity for the neighbors. Correct. [22:44] Okay. And and it and um Okay, very good. And then um other question is about the untreated water. I didn't quite follow um the way that was written it up because it the requirement is untreated water from the car wash shall not be discharged. Um and then the finding was if pre-treatment system is utilized if pre-treatment system is utilized plans for said system will be reviewed. So is is the water being discharged untreated or is there going to be a treatment of that? I think that will be um worked out with with our engineering department as well. Um but I do know that um for water tanks um there are some triggers that make the [23:32] MPCA involved. Um but technically if it's clean water, it only has to have one inspection for water tank inspections. Um but the applicant will have to work with the city's engineering staff and as well of as well as any other um entities that trigger need for additional either inspections or permits. Okay. And stuff like that. I know that the applicant can probably speak on that as well a little more and see how they've had um how they've been able to interact with other entities at their other sites. Um but yeah, Commissioner Reid, Madam Chair, if I may, um since this is at a site plan review level, we aren't reviewing the building permit plan, so we don't know the actual mechanical and and uh um [24:19] system type designs for that. So really the the condition is if it is of a type that um if if it is of that type of system, then it's kind of a but for an if then situation. So that's something that would be re reviewed through our building permit process. Got it. Thank you. [24:40] I had two two questions. Um on that top left like uh that like road that kind of jets out like what is that for? I guess which road? So like if you follow the Yeah. If you if you go in and then go and then instead of turning the corner, it kind of cuts to the left and it right here. Nope. [25:03] Oh, it's like a little spur. Is that part of the private drive that goes straight? This one? Yeah. I don't know. So, you've got the stacking legs kind of curve to the right, but but go to the left. Yeah. Um I believe it might be for some that might snow snow storage. Um Okay. I believe like this area to the south I believe is also for some snow storage if need be as well. I just wasn't sure if that was in for some other purpose of like connecting to another plat or something like that. It could no um it technically no because this parcel directly to the east of this existing parcel um is will be non-build buildable [25:48] as the realignment of Biscane will cut into that parcel somewhat. Gotcha. And then the other question was where would signage be placed? Is that going to be facing more 42 or is that going to be um the sign permit application will have to be separate and um the applicant will work with city staff to make sure that they abide by every um sign regulation within the city's code. Okay. Yep. Madam Chair and Commissioner, two great questions and I think the applicant would also be able to address a few of these um as well. [26:20] Julia, going back to the opacity with the landscaping the is there a good a good number of coniferous trees then that are used in that screening because the deciduous aren't going to provide the 90% opacity. [26:35] Yes, to my knowledge those ones if you're looking at um their plant schedule it does look like a majority of those will be um screening in that aspect. Okay. So that would be my only thing is I I know I looked at it but I it was kind of hard with all the different kinds of trees to make sure that we had a a healthy number of coniferous there. Yep. And they have it outlined in their landscaping plan that that is that that area will be screened which okay comes with that. So the area that's facing 149th. Yes. And as well as majority of 149th but then also to the east as well. Okay. Yeah. [27:16] Okay. Um, are there any other questions for staff? No. Okay. Thank you. At this time, we will open up the public hearing for this item. Anyone in the audience would like to speak may do so at this time coming to the podium stating your name and address for the record. And I will ask the applicant if you would like to speak and share. I know you had some things that the staff said you were prepared to speak at tonight. Did you want to start us off? [27:49] Yep. You can start us off. [27:57] Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. My name is Michael Gisonens from Sunny's Enterprises. We are based in Tamarak, Florida, and we are the leading provider of car wash equipment for express car washes. I have some of my team here with me tonight. Mr. Chris Fritter who is an expert on water, Mr. Timothy Hughes who is a expert on equipment as well as Luke and Paul Anderson the applicants and ownership for this project. And we did have a number of items that came out of the neighborhood meeting. As previously mentioned, there were some questions around the traffic, the noise, and as well as the water. Um, regarding the traffic, I did [28:45] want to address that typical capture rate for a quick service retail location would be about 2 to 5%. An express car wash is going to be about one to three% capture rate. Convenience and gas is going to be about two to four percent. So that in mind, we're going to be under um some of those more, you know, common uses that you would see in a Can you explain capture rate a little bit? Can you explain capture rate? I'm not sure. Yes. [29:15] So capture rate. So I'm looking at a figure here of 17,649 cars per day passing by 149th. the capture rate would be we're estimating that we would um attract or draw in 1 to 3% of that traffic. So that would come out to about 177 to 530 cars per day on the high side. [29:41] And your comparisons were that if if a different commercial entity went in here, they have they would have an increased some of those have higher capture rates than the car wash. Yes, ma'am. That's correct. And regarding the noise levels and the decibb, I'm sorry I don't have this figure. Is there any way I can pipe in maybe an example or maybe we could share it afterwards? But I do have a diagram that would be showing the noise levels on the vacuum producer. It is reading at about 79 dB at 50 ft without enclosures. And with the way that we designed the site, the idea is to keep [30:26] that noise as minimal and as contained as possible to the site. Um, so that 79 dB is going to be um comparable to, you know, a loud car radio at about 50 ft and we're looking at about 240 ft to the nearest residential property. The other point is the 79. You said 79 dB was without enclosure. [30:54] Without an enclosure. Yes, ma'am. But these you have enclosures around them. Yes, ma'am. So then does that drop the Yes, it does. Um, it does drop that, but the figure that I have the study performed on is without the enclosure and that's at 79 dB. [31:11] So it would be we would expect that it would be less than that with the enclosure and there's the landscaping in addition to that. Yes, sir. That's correct. And you said the nearest residence was how many feet away? Let me double check. I believe it was 240 ft. [31:27] Okay. Yes. 240 ft from that nearest vacuum producer. Okay. Do you is there any way like so as you travel further out I would assume it drops. Correct. Yes. Is there a metric on how much it drops? Um I I only have that 50t um measurement and that was a case study that was done by our company uh believe within the last couple years. Okay. [31:57] And regarding the water, apologize, I'm just hopping down to that point. Um so an express car wash uh with a reclaim system like we are using on this project is expected to have about 5,000 to 15,000 gallons of affluent discharge per day. Um to compare to some other uses a full service car wash is about 20,000 to 35,000 gallons per day. A fast food restaurant is between 5 and 10,000. [32:36] Full service restaurant between 10 and 25,000. And a hotel 20 to 30,000. Um, you know, the point being that with the reclaim system and some of the advanced engineering that goes into the design of this system, we are minimizing our affluent discharge and making sure that all of that is as as clean as possible. [32:58] Um, I I'm not an expert on the water. If there are any specific questions there, um, Mr. Chris Freder would be the guy for that. Yeah, I was curious about the treatment because it one of the one of the requirements is that uh there's treatment of water. Um, so it will the water be treated before it's discharged. [33:20] Can I approach and speak, please? Yes. Perfect. If you can just state your name and address. Uh, my name is Chris Fritter. Um, not to ruffle your guys' feathers, but I'm from Inenver Grove Heights. So, just down the road, 10652 Alton Court. Um, so to answer your question about reclaim water, right, all the water that comes back in a car wash tunnel, we want to recycle that and reuse it. We don't want them using excess water and we don't want to deplete your water sources, right? So, we treat it with hydrocyclones, which um I'm trying to think of an easy way. [33:47] Think of a tornado, right? Um, all the heavy particles would go to the bottom, the usable goes to the top. So, we settle out like a septic system. And then we also treat it with ozone. So like um poultry as it goes through like horell gets treated with ozone. We treat ours with ozone as well that's next to the sewer line. So that bacteria is killed before it's processed and gone on. So we use two different ways that we treat the water before it's sent to sewer and sand oil separator. Thank you. [34:13] Is that the question you're looking for? Yeah, very well explained. Perfect. And what? So, just to continue on that, I know you guys did some research on what the requirements are for inspections and such. Do you have anything you can share on that of what you guys have locally of well or what the state requires? What like will the tanks be inspected um annually? Yeah. Inspect? No, that's a great question. So, they're prefabed concrete tanks that go underground, right? And all those are pressuret treated concrete when they're sold to us. And when they're sold to us, they have to meet a certain specification before they can even enter the ground. [34:47] And that's done through the general contractor. Okay. Um, and I don't believe it's yearly. Um, but I know there is a sequence of which they'll be inspecting. That's more due to your local and state laws than it is nationally. But we do have a mandate and a specification of how we have to purchase the tanks and meet that standard for pressure rating on concrete. Okay. So, did that answer your question? And then they'll be buried at the appropriate depth to where there's a frost line access cover and things of that nature. So, okay. Okay. Does anyone have any other questions on water at this time? [35:20] Okay. Thank you. Yep. Any other questions for the applicant at this time? It was just the question on that uh kind of the drive and that corner and what that was about. Oh, the Yes. Are you referring to this section here? I believe that that is for snow storage. It is not intended to be an access to another parcel. [35:46] Gotcha. Okay. I see some shaking of heads back there. So, sounds like emergency vehicles need to be able to access and turn around. So, the biggest fire truck has can navigate this particular. Okay. Great. Thank you. And then signage, is that going to be facing more towards 42 or is that So, we're still working through um with the sign company to confirm all of the requirements, but we'll be in accordance with any local requirements. [36:14] But it would be yes, I'm sorry. Yes, 42. Okay. So, you talk about the capture rate uh with the different uh maybe per day. What does that equate to from a stacking perspective? Is there I mean is there anticipated stacking that you have? I know you have three lanes which really helps, but trying to envision some of those really busy days and what are the odds that that's going to spill out into 149th Street. I I don't see that as likely since you have three separate lanes, but I'm curious what that what the anticipated level of vehicle usage is going to be or what what that can handle because I'm having a hard time visualizing how many cars could theoretically uh fit into all three of those lanes. [37:00] Thank you for the question. Good question. So we can uh we have another model that we could submit with full stacking done um with the traffic level and cap expected capture rate at this site. We do not see uh the potential of this spilling out onto 149th as a problem. How many cars can st do you know how many I mean we don't need the model but do you know how many cars can stack there? It's over 20 vehicles. I can tell you that. Okay. Okay. Um I can get a more firm number when I can take a look at the model. Okay, that's helpful. [37:32] Thank you. Of course. Thank you. Any other questions for for the applicant at this time? Thank you. Thank you all for your time. At this time, we'll invite anyone else that would like to speak on this item to do so. [37:52] Hi, my name is Maggie Grainy. My address is 2542 148th Street West. basically directly across the street from um the the car wash will be in my backyard. So, I have a few questions. At the um community meeting we had, there was talk about as far as the um landscaping that there would be a burm that all those shrubs and trees are planted on about 4 feet elevation to help block more of the light and noise going into the houses right there. I didn't know if that was still a thing. [38:30] Um, also you were talking about uh the opacity of the trees. It looks like the side of the lot that um will run parallel to Biscane has quite a bit of density on the trees there, but there's no houses right next to that. My house is on will back up to 149th Street. I want to know what the opacity of um the shrubbery is there as far as blocking lights and everything coming into my living room. Um and one other question was uh the vacuum pumps, when will those be shut off each day? Like how late should I expect the noise? Um those are the three questions I had. Thank you, [39:18] Maggie. We will take all the feedback and questions and then we'll answer them at we'll ask the applicant to answer them at the end. Okay. Thank [39:35] you. Hello. Uh Andy Doed Doll. Uh 1483 Blanca Avenue. So, um, also in the addition directly behind, um, just mainly wanted to voice also my concerns with, um, noise. I did have three next door neighbors that could not make it here due to, um, kid obligations and being out of town. They speaking on their behalf as well. Um, a lot of my questions um, have already been asked, but um, I guess not just understanding the noise. Uh my first question is um the noise will be coming it looks like um the two vacuum places are one's north and one's south in the enclosures but [40:20] there are 16 stalls for vacuums. I just want to make sure that it's those two places where the noise comes from and not 16 vacuums because even at 79 dibels times two is louder than 79 dibbels, right? U but if you multiply that by 16, yikes. Um, and then also, um, I had a similar question, uh, as the previous citizen, um, in terms of, um, I heard that the trees were about 6 feet. I'm 6'2, so that's not really enough to block sound. Um, I was also wondering if there's a burm and then trees on top of that, or if there's a sound wall or something else to um, uh, dissipate the the sound. Um, that will be there. [41:04] Um please hold. Um, I do know that u my next door neighbor Matt Sam um is the director of public works from Apple Valley. Uh he is out of town or he would be here, but he just said that um with the Mr. Car Wash off of Pilot and English Avenue, they do get weekly noise um complaints with that one. and just thinking about pets and stuff that are out. So, noise is really my primary just wanted to understand more about that. So, thank you. Thank you. [41:46] Is there anyone else in the audience that would like to speak on this item this evening? Seeing none, I'll make a motion to close the public hearing. Second. has been moved by Commissioner Keniger, seconded by Commissioner Reid to close the public hearing. All those in favor, please say I. I. I. Opposed. Motion carries. At this time, I will ask the applicant to come back up if you can speak a little bit um to the the questions around noise um from if it comes from the vacuums or the enclosures. Um also the landscaping on the opacity. Um the vacuum shut off time. I won't pepper you with all of them all. So we can go one by one. So if you want to start with maybe the noise on the vacuums, the north and south enclosures and where the noise comes [42:33] from. Absolutely. So the noise will be coming from the two vacuum enclosures only, not the 16 vacuum spaces, the enclosures here and here where the producers are located. Those would be the sources of the noise. Um we also build variable frequency drives into these. So the noise is going to be reduced when there's not a heavy load on them below the uh formally stated number of 79 dB. Is there an option on that north enclosure to move it to the south? [43:15] I would have to check with our engineers. Um Okay. I can I can look into that. It just it would move it further from the residence and it would um like I I know you guys are over on parking spots. So even if you have to take out that last parking spot and put the enclosure there would be an idea unless you get like from a city requirement the parking spots there's plenty of parking. So okay I can I can check with our engineers and and see if a rework is possible. Okay. And and I apologize too because I had that question when I looked at the plans this weekend and I meant to email it in and I did not. So, perfect. My apologies for not sending that in earlier. [43:56] Um, the vacuum shut off time. Let's stick with the vacuums. Uh, 8:00 p.m. Uh, they're only going to be on during hours of operation. Okay. So, they'll be on during hours of operation from 8:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. Yes, ma'am. Okay. [44:12] I did it. In full disclosure, I also attended the neighborhood meeting. So, I don't know if the 8 am I don't remember where I I knew that from the neighborhood meeting. I'm not sure if it was in the report. Um, okay. So, let's talk about the landscaping next. And the opacity on more on biscane like the is it denser? Is there are the trees denser and more opaque on the Biscane side than the 149th? So, these are going to be more dense, more opaque trees going along 149th Street. And to address the question regarding height, I see a minimum height varying from 6 feet to 10 ft for the trees that we have along 149th Street. Okay. And so, so [45:01] even though in the plan it might look denser along the north or the east side of the lot, it's actually you're going to see more density on that north side. Yes. The goal was to maximize the density along that 149th Street to conceal um you know that stacking lane as well as minimize any light and noise spillage coming from the site. Okay. And and are a lot of those the coniferous trees so that during the the winter there's still still that shielding and screening. [45:36] Yes, that I have um I have the scientific names of these trees and I apologize. I don't I don't know um but yes, most of them are um denser opaque trees to to shield the site. Okay. Okay. Um let me see what else. I know at the neighborhood meeting we we did kind of talk about a burm and I know um where anytime fitness is the elevation is a little bit higher kind of by the curb. I don't know if there's any um if the elevation of this lot is if that end of the lot is up higher at all or not or if you know that the topographic I our engineers are looking at that right now. Um, that was a feedback point from the neighborhood meeting and we are investigating the [46:24] topo to see if there's a possibility of building up that burm. Okay. Um, let's see. We talked about the noise, the vacuum shut off. Um, I think that's all the questions that I captured from the residents for the applicant. Did anyone have anything else for the applicant? [46:47] Okay. So, do I understand it correctly with the variable frequency drives, the maximum uh decibb would be when all vacuums are in use and they would be low. You know, if there's one, it's going to be lower. [47:03] So, really the 79 dB. Is that what it was? Yes, that would be the max. Yeah, that would be if all were in use, right? That's correct. Okay. Thanks. And it's so it's less if only like three of them are in use. Yes, ma'am. Okay. [47:19] Okay. So, as as there's more load, that var variable frequency is going to spin up. It's going to pull more power to bring more suction to the vacuums. As less, you know, people are using those vacs, it's going to spin down. Less noise, less power. [47:36] Okay. Okay. Um, Julia, can you answer or speak a little bit to the the noise from Mr. Carw Wash Apple the Apple? Anything there. [47:55] Thank you. Thank you. Um, we did receive feedback from Apple Valley's community development director and um, from what I can remember from that email, there were some issues with noise but not a large amount that it remained concerning. Yeah, Madam Chair, uh the so they said that the they had complaints are not zero, but they would say that there were not many and mostly um experienced by people dining outdoors on the patios at the restaurants over there. Okay. [48:34] Do do we do you happen to know if if I'm just going from memory, but it doesn't seem like there's a lot of um buffering between the the car wash and some of the other areas there. Is there any do we know if there's any kind of comparison and buffering here on the Mr. [48:50] Car Wash? Yeah. Right. Yeah. Well, the the area immediately west of there is undeveloped for the most part at this time. Uh so it's kind of an apples and oranges comparison between the two uses. Um, but um, like I said, it it was mostly from people dining at the restaurants and it's from an environment standpoint. There's parking lots and buildings and a lot of acoustic things to increase the amplification of that noise in that area within the shopping center. That's kind of what I was thinking. I don't think there's much like landscape buffering or things around it at all. Okay. Madam Chair, Commissioner Reed too. The other thing to keep in mind as you're you're thinking through the that the sound and [49:36] the the noise and the sound attenuation and some of the the options that the developer presented as a part of that to help to mitigate that regardless of either actual decibb or mitigation or other things in place. They're still obligated to meet any standards under MPCA for for noise pollution that would be in place. So it's Do we know what those standards are? I don't have those off the top of my head, but um if the developer has any idea on that or something else to consider, but they would also be they well not also they are held to any any business or any residence or any operation in Minnesota are held to those those noise levels. [50:22] I I don't know if the applicant knows if I don't expect you to necessarily know that the Mr. car wash in town, but if they have similar vacuum enclosures and if they have similar noise deafening systems. I'm Paul Anderson, 1858 Sergeant Avenue, St. Paul, Minnesota. [50:39] Um, I can speak to that one. First off, on our enclosures around our vacuum pumps, the walls around those enclosures are 8 ft tall. So, the vacuum pumps will be hidden, so all the noise for the most part will be directed straight up and not out. Um, and Mr. Car Wash uses a very different vacuum system than we're using. Ours, like it says, has a variable range to it, whereas Mr. Car Wash's vacuums have less muffling systems and a they just run at their peak. Um, which is part of the reason we partnered with Sunny's knowing we're going to be in more of a residentially area versus the Mr. Car Wash, which like they said is surrounded by parking lots and other uh stone buildings to help amplify and direct that. So, we're hoping to mitigate that [51:26] as much as possible with landscaping and of course creating barriers and enclosures around the vacuum pumps, which you can see have doors that open and close and will be closed during the day in operations except for maintenance. So, I hope that helps clarify and answer more of those questions. Well, what's kind of the And I know this is not going to be exact, but do you have an idea what that decel difference is between the kind of muffled ones that you're proposing using versus the unmuffled ones? Just so we had an idea. So, we we can only speak to the testing we've done on the ones we're getting, which would be the maximum of 78 dB. Um, you can't multiply sound and make more sound for the most part. So, 78 dB is 78 dB whether it's one or both. [52:13] it doesn't all of a sudden become 168 dB. Um so but by us doing the variable rate ones and having these enclosures and trees that are at least 6 ft um I can speak to our sound levels will not go above that 78 even with all vacuums going. Um which for the most part won't be happening. [52:41] So, but that's what I can speak to that we have now and we can provide more studies specifically as to what you request moving forward to once permitting and stuff we can do a little deeper dive into landscaping on whether or not we're allowed to do burns. That has to do with the storm water runoff as well is we can only do so much to the property before it starts changing where water goes. Um, and I know there's a specific pond for this whole lot where it's supposed to go. So, um, I know that we're looking into that of what we can do, but we have to work back with the city planners and and go with that, too. [53:20] So, yeah, I think that sounds good. And I my thought was I know that the Anytime sits up a little higher and I didn't know if that would just naturally be similar on that lot or not. Obviously, all lots are different. Yeah. And I don't know. I know anytime's right up on the storm pond, so I don't know if that has anything to do Right. I'm not a landscaper by trade, so I can't speak to that. So, thank you. You're welcome. Are there any other questions from the commission? [53:50] Oh, I also just want to add any outstanding concerns that, you know, residents or or the board might have. Um we're more than happy to work with uh you know all parties in order to be a good neighbor. Um we want to be a productive and and efficient wash there and and add to the community. So happy to uh work through anything outstanding. [54:11] Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate that. I there was something and I'm not sure if if you can answer it or um if it's a Chris thing. There was a comment somewhere and I I apologize. I can't remember where I read this or where I saw this about um water pressure changing um and if there's any if if there will be any change to residents water pressure with with the water that you're pulling. Sure. So, very similar to the vacuums, we use a variable frequency drive with water. Right. So, water is going to be based off the demand. And I apologize. I'm not ignoring you. I have notes that uh I took here. Give me a second. [54:50] So here we go. Total gallons of fresh water per car is 43.6 gallons of fresh water per car, right? And the max amount of cars you can wash in a minute is two. So the max amount of gallons per minute that you could get to would be 86 gallons per minute, right? So that would be the max that you could get through a 2-in water man that your, you know, city of Rosemont would be providing to the car wash. The max flow that can actually go through when it's 107 to 117 gallons per minute at 55 PSI. Our pump just takes and regulates that 255 PSI. They have bladder storage tanks on it. And the main thing is to allow no pressure drop in the wash, right? As we run it through a water softener, as we run it through the treatment facilities that you asked. [55:36] We want to make sure that we don't have pressure drop and that's what we're actually looking for. So we maintain a constant pressure of 55 PSI. Um, the question I observed in the email that you guys sent was, "What is the suction rate?" There is no suction value based on head pressure of a pump. There's only pressure ratings versus longtime frequency. So, the max that you guys could ever pull would be 107 gallons per minute. Um, and once again, when the wash isn't operational, you won't have any pressure loss. You would only have it from 8 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. And that'd be minimized through the 2-in main line coming in as well. Okay. Does that make sense? I followed most of it, I think. [56:14] But at the end of the day, residents shouldn't see any water pressure change. That is correct. Um, the only way you would see the residents would be nervous is if you increased the plumbing size coming into that wash to a 6 or 8 inch main. That's the only way you can start to take away from that main line. Okay. [56:32] So, okay, that makes sense. Okay. Thank you. Perfect. Thank you. Any other questions related to that? I don't think so. Okay. But I'm going to look back through my notes and see if I had anything else. Okay. Thank you. Thank [56:51] you. Okay. I think my questions are good. Anyone else have any questions? Outstanding questions? Nope. No. Okay. And so with that, we could move forward with a motion. [57:10] All right. I'll u make a motion to approve a site plan review allowing for the construction of a car wash facility at 2550 149th Street West subject to conditions 1 through five discussed. [57:25] Second. It has been moved by Commissioner Ugai, seconded by Commissioner Reid. All those in favor, please say I. I. I. Opposed. Motion carries. Um, two quick things. because it it didn't fit in as necessarily a condition, but I would appreciate it if the applicant could look at potentially moving that the vacuum further to the to the south, further from the residence if that's an option. Um, and I appreciate the review with staff of making sure that the that we have a lot of coniferous trees along that um north side. Okay. So, um, again, those weren't necessarily conditions warranted, but I think that this, um, that those would be helpful for the [58:11] neighbors, and I appreciate the neighbors coming tonight. I appreciate meeting you at the neighborhood meeting. Um, and I I think this will be a hopefully will be a great addition to the neighborhood, to our neighborhood. Um, this item I did I did speak a little bit incorrectly at the neighborhood meeting. So, I do want to clear that up here that this item because it was a site plan review does not go forward to city council. So, this is its last stop on approvals. Um, it will not move forward to city council. Our decision tonight here is final unless it is um um appealed like I can't think of the word unless it is appealed which has to be done within 10 days to city to city staff. So um this will not move forward to city council. It is um done here tonight unless there is an appeal and at which case then it would go forward to [58:57] city council. And so with that that concludes our public hearing section this evening. Is there any new business? There's no new business madam chair. Okay. Um our discussion items before we go through our meeting schedule for the next three months. Um Commissioner Reid, we talked a little bit before you arrived tonight. Um we have a few people out for the June 24th meeting. Are you around for June 24th meeting? I believe so. Yes. Okay. So, right now we have you and Commissioner Beer on June 24th. Liz is going to check with the other applicants um or the other commissioners to see if they are able to do that. [59:32] Otherwise, we may need to look at rescheduling that meeting. I am out. Okay. So, um so you will own that meeting and then um the next two meetings are July 22nd and August 26th. I will remind the commissioners if you can't make any of those upcoming meetings as well, please reach out to staff um to Liz and let her know. Anyone else have any other discussion items? Okay, with that I will adjourn the meeting. Meeting adjourned. [1:00:01] [Music] [Music]