we'll call the um meeting to order uh roll call Brahman here horn here shulock here and good to see you sir thank you the end of 90 here lanterman here uh I will um encourage you all to join me in the Pledge of Allegiance I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for in which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all so uh I'm very happy tonight to welcome our our newest member to this commission uh John Horn John welcome thank you we are all I I know we're all looking forward to to working with you could you could you take a minute and introduce yourself and tell us about yourself you bet well first of all I'm excited and honored to be a part of the Planning Commission and I look forward to working with you all a little background on me I'm a two-year resident of Corcoran we live over in the Bellwether development my wife and I prior to Corcoran we raised our family over in Champlin so not all that far away I'm a civil engineer by trade although I did retire here last summer but I spent 35 years in the Consulting engineering industry so I spent a lot of time in my career sitting in meetings like this Planning Commission meeting City Council meetings but I was always on that side of the room so be a little bit different experience for me sitting up here I hope that some of my experience can be an asset to the group here as we evaluate planning proposals and serve the city corporate well thank you and and welcome um are there any recommended or requested amendments to the agenda tonight does need to continue the public hearing notice for Park dedication subdivision ordinance Amendment um we will need a motion um and vote from the commission to postpone that item to December 1st okay can I uh can I get a motion to postpone item 7B the park dedication subdivision ordinance to the December 3rd Planning Commission meeting I'll make that motion to get a second oh second okay all in favor say aye aye opposed thank you uh open Forum so uh I'd like to open the floor to any members of the public either in person or here in Zoom that would uh like to address the commission on items not on tonight's agenda uh Mr chair we just need to back up one step we do have to formally approve the agenda as well oh I apologize um so sure okay well can I get a motion to approve the agenda I'll make the motion can I get a second second okay uh let's uh vote all in favor say aye aye opposed if I zoom s raise your hand you're utilizing the raise your hand function on your should be on your bottom menu if you're on your computer otherwise um anyone in the audience with a snake can approach the podium to address the commission with any items not on the agenda and at this time Mr chair no one is raising their hand online okay and uh welcome uh folks we just opened the public forum so if there's anything that you would like to uh address with us now is your opportunity as long as it's an item not on the agenda tonight okay all right thank you okay um I don't need to close no this right okay so um are there any questions or comments on the minutes distracted to the nope nope okay um can I get a motion to approve the October 6th Planning Commission meeting minutes I'll make that motion can I get a second second okay and uh a vote all in favor say aye aye aye opposed thank you okay uh new business foreign we just begin with the staff presentation so that's what we're waiting for I apologize to get connected thank you is working now [Applause] foreign we might not have a slideshow so No it should just be turning on but it's not turning green so it's and then it's when it was green I was saying it was searching so I'm not gonna waste any more of our time we'll just go through this the old-fashioned way so the public hearing item tonight is for the vollrath agricultural accessory structure for the property adjacent to 22903 strayler Road the agricultural building will have a footprint of 7 600 square feet and it requires a conditional use as it is a principal structure on a property without a residence we do allow that for specifically agricultural buildings when it's on an actively farmed parcel and in this case it is adjacent to a Farmstead that is under the seam under the same ownership um Gerald volrath owns 2290 these three strailer Road uh which is The Farmstead and then the larger parcel where this building will be constructed um he also has one-third ownership interest in that as well as his grandson Trent volrath who is the applicant so the application includes three certificates of compliance uh one for an Agricultural building with a footprint that exceeds 3969 square feet the total accessory structure footprint on this property will be 10 760 square feet of agricultural space and that's why it's a certificate of compliance because of the Agricultural use rather than a conditional use permit metal siding and roof is proposed for the building which again can be approved through certificate of compliance and it does create standards and then the sidewall height for again an agricultural building can be approved with a certificate of compliance this building will have a sidewall height of 18 feet and technically the building is in the front yard but again it meets the standards for the certificate of compliance for the cup there are specific standards to allow an agricultural accessory structure as a principal use when it's adjacent to a Farmstead under the same ownership and the staff reviewed these standards as well as the general cup standards provide elsewhere in the code overall the application significantly complies with the cup standards with remaining concerns addressed as conditions of approval uh so just a review of the main conditions of approval the formal Wetland delineation process must be completed before things can move forward which means a notice of decision needs to be issued and that is in the works a revised survey must be submitted to address the plans need to show the final Wetland boundary as approved by Bowser which is a state agency that looks at the wetlands and then identify flood plain on the property right now that's not shown and there is data on Hennepin County that suggests there is floodplain and especially where he's putting the building and then they also need to identify the flood protection elevation and their plans need to show how they intend to expand their driveway to serve the proposed overhead doors on the many sides of the building the three sides of the building where they'll be overhead doors Additionally the building plans don't currently reflect the proposed building materials that was confirmed by the applicant verbally so we will need the plans to just be quickly updated to confirm the specific building material and then the applicant will need to sign an affidavit testifying the building will be used for agricultural purposes only Additionally the building must be constructed above the identified flood protection elevation if they do use fill placed below the floodplain elevation they will have to basically mitigate for that on the site elsewhere to allow for proper drainage the Additionally the subject property must continue to be used for agricultural in tandem with The Farmstead at 22903 strailer Road as a condition of approval for the cup oh finally any work completed within the floodplain must be reviewed and approved by the Watershed once those are addressed they will be able to move forward with the building that's all things that we can handle on the back end as for discussion no official public comments will received prior to the public hearing additionally I'll add the structure does meet or exceed the 100 foot setback required for agricultural buildings it is set back 150 feet from strailer road but the commission may want to discuss whether recommendation for landscaping is warranted to provide screening along strayler Road considering the size of the building staff recommends opening the public hearing and approving the draft resolution you thank you Natalie I'll open the public hearing and then if I believe they're all the applicant okay I know Carrie but I wasn't sure um they're all here representing the applicant uh anyone joining us online if you'd like to participate in the public hearing please utilize the raise your hand function under the reactions menu and at this time no one is raising their hand okay thank you and um oh so we raise our hand oh you might have to turn it on and please state your name for the record I should be turned on you turn off no I turned it on earlier I don't know if it Revel and so that actually makes the mic worse that might help maybe um yep might as well just use this all right is this one working all right Mr chair Planning Commission thank you for letting me talk my name is Dean varenkamp I live at 9310 back Toll Road in Corcoran um I'm about a mile away from this property uh Great Farm a lot of good things going on in there I've been out there personally I know in the past we've had the number of buildings built in this city for the purposes stated not anything but what was on the property and a lot of those things are aren't true but that's neither here nor there I know they are out of capacity for farm equipment storage and those kind of things um it's a good look it's in a good place as uh staff made comments there's there's some number of things and the Watershed is is a big one on the Wetland area and those kind of things they're probably um a possible concern but not crazy where they're putting it yeah it's in the front yard but again some of the places that we put some buildings you know haven't been all out appealing but this is a Farmstead full-blown and I just wanted to let you guys know that I don't know if any of you made a trip out to the site and stuff but uh it's a full-blown Egg farm and they are going crazy and they're doing everything they can to keep the rural rural in town so I appreciate it and I support it as a neighbor thank you thank you for your comments do you have anyone online no no one else is raising their hand Mr chair so uh can I get a motion to close the the um public here I'll make that motion uh can I get a second second okay all in favor say aye aye aye all opposed say name good yep so I'll start then uh the applicant owns the 68 acre property with his grandfather is that you sir okay well welcome tonight thanks for joining us uh and one other person um because the parcel does not have a principal structure a cup can only be granted if there is common ownership with an adjacent parcel now because the applicant's grandfather owns the adjacent parcel with The Farmhouse and has an interest in the 68-acre property where this structure will be built that requirement is clearly met um I I'm not sure and I mentioned this to you earlier I'm not sure who caught the detail of the city code 1030.020 but whoever did catch that and include that in the application I appreciate your attention to uh to details um I do not have any material comments or concerns with this application the structure is large though and it is close to the pre-existing buildings I see that staff notes that we may discuss landscaping and in my View Landscaping is not strictly required for this project and therefore I think that we should not attach any additional conditions related to it in an approval so with that I'd like to hear from my fellow Commissioners commissioner brummond yeah so this is my neighborhood so I think that it fits very well with the surrounding buildings I think I'm excited I I know I'm excited that you are pursuing farming um and so that that makes me excited I'm excited that you guys are doing so well that you need another building I would also agree that I don't think that landscape requirements are fitting here primarily for a couple of reasons one is that if the building is going to be used for livestock then that's like that is up to those who own the livestock to be concerned about what kinds of plants and potential edible things are around a building that livestock or housing but then also to the look of the area which is something that we have relied upon in the past in terms of whether it would be a requirement I am always a fan of of hedgerows living across from an alfalfa field it's nice when you have something that can block but I certainly don't think that that's necessarily something a stipulation that we should put on it's especially with the investment you guys have already made up to this point to get the building up and I am curious and this was more a question for staff the natural resources map like when was that put in place and do we know how often it's evaluated and the only reason that I ask is that is interesting to me that this shows up as a floodplain area because it's it's dry it's dry back there so I'm not sure if it's something where it's cyclical um obviously it has a bearing in terms of decisions that need to be made but it was more uh satiating my curiosity sure uh Mr chair commissioner Bremen the if we're talking about the Hennepin County map where the data was pulled by our Engineers yeah it definitely is not always correct and that's why it just it needs we're asking it to be confirmed because if it's showing it's enough for us to go off to suggest that there is floodplain on the property especially where in the vicinity of proposing the building if they go through the process and they say there is no floodplain then okay then we'll go from there but at this point there's enough evidence to suggest that there is flood pain blood pain as far as how often Hennepin County updates it I'm not certain on that um I could definitely look into it but I I do we do rely on their data extensively to provide us with at least a starting point when we're doing projects yeah no that's great thanks and I know it's been dry like really dry the last few years and so it's also possible that it isn't always um you know that it's at first Snippets of time right like cyclical weather patterns or whatever it was really just a point of curiosity right I'm sorry just aren't they a hundred year like if it's flooded in 100 years then it's considered in the flood plain yeah it's a hundred year floodplain go away well I guess I had one question for the applicants and that is is there anything concerning about the recommended res like the recommendations put forth by staff in order to make uh approval is there anything that is concerning to you no like some of the things that we're saying we're singing so I feel like I need some more information about that all that okay um so the it's all within did you have a chance to review the staff package yeah I just got a guess what we were just talking about it okay so the last I've heard is when that we had the survey come out from the Wetland and they just talked about the delineation and we're going to meet with you and we heard like it's been beginning so just hearing a list of things I need to learn more about that okay uh yeah we can definitely touch base with next steps after this meeting um that that's not a problem um not not directly after this meeting but we can definitely touch base next week on this and go over the remaining items the floodplain came out of the engineering review so that memo uh was made available to me last week as I was finishing the packet so yeah yeah yeah fair enough domination fully completely you have all that information and would that help solve the floodplain the Wetland delineation is not a floodplain delineation the Wetland delineation is for specifically it there is a difference between floodplain elevations and the Wetland but what we have for the Wetland delineation is enough to move forward with the process I believe it's just at this point the waiting period before the notice of decision can be issued so I believe everything is on track with that it just needs to be finalized before things can move forward that's all so the fourth players and so on you guys handle so it's not a same delineation process you'll just have to talk with the surveyor to update the survey to show the floodplain so he should be able to confirm that yep so that's all I had so so I was just uh well two things I guess so this principle use thing that's is that because there could be a house on this property but there isn't it's starting with a building that's what is is that what's meant by that correct so the principal use would be is a residence and there's no residence on this parcel because it's on the adjacent parcel that was what was farmsteaded so um so we I don't know exactly when this exception came into play I know it was specifically added to address this situation but that's what it's meant like if I bought up a property and I put a building on before a house that that's you cannot do that in most scenarios only in this very specific scenario where it's in conjunction with an adjacent Farm sure sure interesting um and then I was curious about the it said subject property must continue to be used for agriculture and Tandem and so what if what if that property gets sold well that's so that's that's exactly what it's trying to address so the conditional use permit is being issued under the conditions that the properties remain in the same ownership um so if they were to sell The Farmstead to a different party and that's no longer being farmed technically this property this building should not be in existence at least without getting a residence on the property as a principal it'll probably be a variance some other process would kick in then probably yeah we'd have to deal with it at that time so essentially if they so it so I'm less concerned of it being sold within the family um so as long as they're using it in Con in tandem with each other perpetually then the cup could stand for interesting oh that was it I just had a couple questions on that thank you I don't have any concerns about the structure the purpose of the structure my concerns or questions relate back to the floodplain issue because based upon the flood plain Maps if indeed the structure Falls within the 100 year flood plain the choices would either be to mitigate that flood plain someplace else on the property or move the structure I'm just curious of potentially the structure could get moved because of the floodplain issue if in fact the flood plain is correct uh Mr chair commissioner horn I'm sorry um the city engineer allowed for that flexibility if they were to choose to move the building outside the flood plain but the floodplain is so extensive it'd be really far south and probably would not be practical it does make a lot more sense to have the building located near where the driveway exists today and the other structures so we think it's likely they'll have to if they can't stay above the identified elevation and they have to fill they will have to mitigate Elsewhere on the site yes for the applicant the issue would be if indeed you have to place Phil within the floodplain you just have to find someplace else on your property to excavate out the Earth to be able to restore that floodplain store someplace else exactly thank you thank you commissioner Schuler um no no questions just a comment that after years of reviewing new neighborhoods and sub-developments and subdivisions and things it is refreshing and good news to me to be able to vote on a project that maintains the agricultural Spirit of this City and I just I just love the the generational aspect of it and I wish you all the best with this project so folks before I close up our deliberations uh I I failed to give you an opportunity specifically to address the commission are there any any questions for us before I I close our discussions yes sir give you a little history of the property and how long I've been there I love to hear the stories we would like to hear it I'm we're going to be done about midnight sorry Jeff in 1949 so I keep thinking in about 18 years it's going to be in the family name 100 years wow and anyway when my father died he passed away I bought the Ferry Farm over that met parents were Dairy Farmers and chicken farmer well anyway I was took the farm over and there's been Dairy on that farm until seven years ago when the barn burned down by struck by lightning which my other son Jason who couldn't make it tonight took over from me and my son Jason and Jeff are going to Sons they would be the third generation trip is would be the fourth generation on that 80 Acre Farm and I think that's very important to me and our family at uh you have somebody to follow it up that's what my dad's intention was what do you take over the farmer where he passed away the fury gets here you know you had to keep trying to get my not to do with it so there's a lot of history and also I got there I was born on that farm the doctor come to the house at that time in 1942 so I have a lot of yeah for myself and my family and I watched The Retreat and everything supposed to go down or it's been tired that's common of any car wind but if we're in a vicinity on straighter road which I'm glad we are now because to farm you've got to be very careful going on on the road right now so we we downsize that for the barn fire again you just kind of appreciate that we got something left like that in quarterman to see right and I I got neighbors that still Farm a lot of you know the land in there yeah I'm not against rooftops don't get me wrong but it's coming and we I understand that being a mobile phone right but I just hope that this can go a long ways yeah just just holds yeah this is my Homestead and and Hanley and I I like working with you yeah the bug he's lived there for was 80 years old and he's lived there for 78 years so I I got a lot of history there and they're following it up and my grandkids and they were in 4-H they had cows and they put them to the fair so there's a lot of learning and you know the rest of those stories but I just wanted to view that out for two people and thank you for considering well we we appreciate that history you know we're we're used to just you know reading documents and applications and I appreciate the human aspect of your story so thank thank you I do appreciate it thank you um are there any other questions comments before I close our discussion no okay uh can I uh get a motion to recommend uh approval of the draft resolution approving the cup for an Agricultural accessory building as a principal use on the subject property I'll make that motion can I get a second second all in favor say aye aye oppose say name okay congratulations [Applause] Mr chair yes sir just real quick that's our recommendations to the council it's a recommendation to the city council to approve the application and then the council meeting this will be in November 21st it's a Monday night [Applause] that comes in front of the rest of us and I hope uh if you're able to attend the city council meeting I hope that you share your story with them as well sounds good well you know you did pretty well so don't don't don't sell yourself short there sir because we still meet Farmers yeah we do we gotta [Music] eats you ask yourself well thank you thank you again sir I appreciate it thanks everyone foreign [Music] [Music] do any of you have any uh questions of Staff about updates or the status of previous projects foreign are there any planning project updates that staff would like to share with us um I I don't have anything off the top of my head I believe that list is fairly compulsive I can't remember exactly it's been a long two weeks um I can't remember exactly it may have changed since I wrote the update that went to the city council last week um but yes I think that that's pretty comprehensive um we may I believe in December we're talking about or not talking about in December we will likely have a zoning ordinance Amendment for accessory dwelling units come in for a resident who has submitted for a zoning ordinance Amendment uh is there oh and the Pioneer Trail Industrial Parkway and anticipate that's a another industrial planned unit development in Platt we are anticipating that to come in for in time for December as well too is that the preliminary plant yeah eliminary Platinum preliminary PUD okay all right and where is that proposed that one's 55. yeah oh okay all right all right has that been here before okay all right I thought that sounded familiar I did have a question though what it is number 23 was the building rights appeal what is that with the building rights appeal yeah so in our rural residential area the overall density is supposed to be one in ten acres however that isn't necessarily the best way to develop land uh it's usually for the purposes of infrastructure it makes sense to have Parcels closer together while we still have 10 acre lots it's not say the best use of land overall so as a way to allow for smaller lot sizes I believe back in the 80s they implemented development rates there's been changes but at this point it's awarded based on one in ten acres as long as you haven't already exhausted building rights on the property so this app that application will go to city council they believe they have an additional building rate that isn't reflected on our map as it currently stands yeah I see I remember we yeah we had a different way of one of those before where we were looking at moving a building right to the Json so they're appealing for another right that they think should be there essentially yes thank you any other questions the corporate Farm is a business park I know that was a big discussion as a part of this meeting last month as well as at the council meeting last week I recall that was going to go back to Council on the 21st of November is that still intention or how what's the status that was actually going to be my question for Council update was it did get tabled and wasn't getting tabled because of the update to the buffer zone ordinance no okay I'll let her talk and then I'll give you my single opinion I'm going to give him my opinion first yeah as you guys recommend it and that was one of the things I wanted to talk to you about to you guys if you recommended denial for it being a PUD okay we are still looking at it and examining it to see if we want to still flip it or change it to a PUD for the light industrial edit set so a ton of questions came out of the meeting the council meeting the developer has gone back to go after those things building Heights setbacks added screening all kinds of things so just it's going to be a little bit there's a lot of discussion a lot that needs to happen for all five of us to say yes we want to go to a PUD the frustration for the previous planning commissions the current Planning Commission and stuff everything comes in as a beauty I think that frustration was hurt loud and clear at the last Planning Commission meeting um the one thing that I would love to encourage the Planning Commission is instead of it doesn't meet it doesn't whatever I would rather hear what would it take and what are your thoughts and I think Council and the mayor would like to hear the same thing what would it take or what would it mean to you to make it a recommendation to the Council of a PUD um I'm just as guilty of it back in the Planning Commission days what are we getting for this I mean I would love to see a list of all of the things that the calls excuse me the city of Corcoran would get related to a PUD and again when I was under Planning Commission and then you guys doing the same thing this just didn't just meet the the requirements of a PUD make suggestions what else would you like to see and then your recommendation for denial would go to the council with those recommendations and more things more Tools in our toolbox to say yes we would go to a PUD but it it has to be what is the city getting out of it what are the benefits to the city if that makes sense am I am I making sense of what I'm saying I think in my my opinion on that is if if okay for instance the town houses and we were trying to figure out how to you know baby tunnels yeah maybe a little less of a from my perspective concern if something is if I have a piece of property and we have code that says it shouldn't be something shouldn't be this close to my property right and we're like oh it's going to be actually a lot closer to your property but we're going to get a park over there at that point I don't think we should allow that stuff right because I'm now I'm now actually impacting as Citizens because that's what yeah that to me would be my guiding principles on that and being on both sides recently I think the Planning Commission can make more of those suggestions okay when I started talking about the development and such I was concerned about helped me Kendra size the buildings hide the buildings the distance from the borders those kind of things that I was told those were actually per code on on corporate Farms as far as the closeness to the residential side the the building setbacks were but everything parking was not yeah so the building setbacks were right again the other things going in with those buildings are an issue but I think I think you guys did a good job saying no we don't recommend changed it to a PUD but what kind of ideas and thoughts there's a lot of them up there I've had a lot when I was up there what would make it acceptable acceptable to Liberty PUD in your mind and I think that's that's what I'm searching for I want to reason to flip to a puny um before I just say yes is being a council member and such but I think Mark you said it very well last last meeting there's a whole lot of smart people sitting on this Planning Commission there's been smart people before but the creativity and such that I see here and welcome commissioner horn um nice to meet you and stuff and your background was intriguing to me to have those kind of things I think it's nice to have that side of our public servants and such being available to give that up and stuff and the massive check that you receive at the end of the year you know thank you for volunteering but that's what I'm saying instead of just saying no it doesn't meet I don't think staff I don't think Kendra and her group I don't think anybody can come up with an idea of what would be a good reason I don't think those details are there they're very broad they're very and it'd be nice to see everything that the city would be getting related to changing this to a PUD I'd like to see more details I'd like to no one understand if if it's sewer water streets improvements on Lark and those kind of things what are the values those kind of things number one um commissioner brummin your your comments about landscape and those kind of things your background there is huge to us what would make it worthy of flipping to or changing it to a few day that's what I'm saying sure and I appreciate that because I do feel like sometimes um it's not helpful to just hear no I do think sometimes there's not not enough that could be given to make it make sense in a particular area and I kind of there's been a lot where I've wondered do I feel that strongly but I just just driving on 50 again today and coming up on the city park and I'm thinking we're really gonna put like just thinking imagining because a lot of these Warehouse type complexes and this is not a time to talk about it but they're coming up on 610 169 they are in these large areas is this really a place that it fits and is there enough of a benefit that the city could get for it for us to make it make sense there um so I really do hear you and I will do my best to bring forth ideas I'm just not so sure on this one if there's one of the things that I brought up was they are not going after those kind of industrial Parts the 40 to 60s yeah um it is light industrial um didn't get any specifics inside okay one of the things I asked the large building building five is there a way to cut that up chop it up it's just the thought and ideas this would be the max building Heights those kind of things they're wanting they're wanting to come they have obviously they have people interested would it be a uh Amazon those UPS no it is not that kind of deal it is it's not but again if we plan to approve the Pud and those kind of things we still have the right to go back and improve I think it's five different Lots five different buildings we still would the Planning Commission still have options to talk if we do flip to a PUD each Building Development and stuff that's being brought in is there input there or is it just come to the console Point border question it's a check please um council member um so again the applicant did get tabled just to be clear on that to come back in theory uh the 21st meeting if the council approved the request it would have conditions uh likely yeah and then the revised plans would come back to the Planning Commission for PUD final plan and final plot but again at that point it's like a final plaque you're reviewing for compliance and so there's not opportunity negotiation room at that stage this is the council's opportunity to negotiate and attach conditions and then your role will be to make sure they've met those conditions can we take that out I'm sorry we did change that Natalie I'm sorry it did not come back right yeah you made that Amendment yeah typically final plots do not go back to the Planning Commission it goes to council and we recently made the change that if the recommendation is that it meets the uh it's in compliance with the preliminary approvals it does not go back to Planning Commission it just goes to council to follow the same procedure as the final plot because it we found it didn't really make sense to do a rubber stamp basically as well it streamlined the process yes exactly so this would be this was this is the chance to make those recommendations I was thinking that even more of a reason to if we have input now this is what we would like to see as future negotiations if the decision is to say yes to a PUD I I'd love to have your opinions and thoughts on record I'd be happy to give you my opinion so what I'm hearing is um you'd like to say yes and the council would like to say yes no don't don't put that on there Martin well we are openly listening to but no one is even making those comments because you're you're asking us for recommendations for items that would turn this into a yes which is why I'm hearing yes before what your thoughts are okay I'd keep hearing from planning commissions when I was on a Planning Commission no this does not need any of the things with no suggestions on ideas to meet in order to say yes in order to recommend yes right which is what I said I cannot read your guys's mind okay I'd rather you say it up front than said no instead of no this does not mean it this does not hit any of it sure you have thoughts ideas and stuff well share them so get them out there okay so I'll continue then so it sounds like you're looking for feedback from us as to how to make a better deal and what I think so if I could finish so if I think I yeah I I I'm definitely saying that a better deal would be in my recommendation would be for the city council to follow the code and deny the application because it does not conform with our City's law nor does it conform with the residents who who attended so my recommendation would just be to follow the law so but there's going to be many many more coming if if you're going to follow that Soviet but we've got other council members that if this is Twitter or Commissioners if this happened make ideas make suggestions I'm not looking for a reason the rubber stamp and say yes I would love to have everything come to us as an ordinance and those kind of things we could abolish the Planning Commission because we wouldn't need recommendations because everything would conform and we really wouldn't need a counselor in there then but that is not how public the whole City's work we're putting this stuff through if we're opening things up we're getting a whole bunch people sharing their thoughts in mind well since you mentioned not having a Planning Commission I wonder sometimes if maybe we I know by law you need to have a Planning Commission but sometimes it seems as though you don't need one when you don't follow our recommendations again if we were to follow every recommendation why would we need a council Landmark I mean we can debate this for hours and I don't want to I want to get home okay I just open your minds guys it it and I rep I respect mark saying ordinances that's it no more puds no more anything I understand that that's one person's mindset we have four others we have five people on the council and the mayor and if everybody opens up and thinks openly I think we can come up with some really good thoughts and ideas on to make this place continue to be a good place to live if if I could just follow up on one final point and then I'll I'll uh I'll recess um my recommendation is just to follow the law and if you can't approve this with the law as it's currently written then change it then change the law you continually say laws and these are orders city code is the city law ours in my mind and we this is what we can differ and we can get into a debate it is a recommendation this is what we'd like to follow we have variances we have ordinances we have puds we have conditional uses all those things right All Things That Vary from code right right so so it's code not going to be black and white is it so city code is just follow it if you like it or don't follow it if you it's like I I want to understand your opinion is respected but if if something if one of you folks needed to bury something from code you'd come and ask right if it's reasonable would you approve it or would you say no to yourself well I think we I mean where I'm kind of was landing on we've I just in the time I've been here we've recommended plenty of puds for approval this one was just really bad this is a big one but well in big but it was just it there was too many the the the the the the variances were not reasonable really and I think we all landed on that that it just didn't make sense the other ones we recommend you've recommended them as well I don't like it but I'll I'll recommend it so I think I don't know I guess I hear what you're saying I just I land where you where you were Landing as well as this one I don't know that there was anything we could do we landed in just follow the code for this one and then it'll be fine I think though in all fairness like there was a recommendation one of the the uh setbacks that they had requested um some flexibility from was the setback along the new road that would have been where the buildings faced each other and I had made the suggestion that that is an area where I would be willing to have flexibility because it would be less important to have you know the the standard setback on that road where the buildings are facing each other rather than the Residential Properties that they're facing across Larkin and I think that is what I hear that Council would appreciate because because it's more eyes and more suggestions more ideas for Solutions rather than like and in all fairness it was an opportunity that we didn't get to hear from the developers so there wasn't some of the asking back and forth to bring additional understanding so we can chalk this one up too thanks for the reminder let's continue to provide a really good feedback in addition to our the Motions that we make um so that if it does go a different way because it it might then there are more suggestions and ideas to to bring about a complete result I guess that's what I'm hearing um and and I am with you that sometimes it doesn't make sense but I I think that this is also about us utilizing our voice right like we talk often about how this is a is a privilege but it's also a great responsibility because because there are others who would long to sit here but can't because they're working two full-time jobs and it's a representation of those hard-working people as well and so let's use this opportunity not to just you know dig our heels in but to really be uh doing our complete job well yeah and I think the philosophy of I mean I get this separate the two two groups right or even I guess you got the the parks one too but where we have different we have might have different views on what does it mean to run to run a city some would say minimum 10 acre lots right that was the rule for many years some would say we really need minimal development some say let's develop as much as we possibly can to get more tax base or something I don't really know you know there's a there's just different philosophies you know I guess and so wherever we end up landing on that as far as we have a code so if the like we talked about that one if they comply it with code it's going through there's nothing we can say about it that's what we decided if it's not then our philosophies get come into into play I think where we have a little bit of our voices can be can be heard absolutely and so that's where I guess I you know if if certain people on let's say on the council are here or like I think we should always improve development why not and others are like wait what's the point of do I need it do we need it as in Corcoran no so if they can comply great we'll we'll accept it if not then we won't maybe that's okay but maybe that's not right just I think I just land that the the philosophies could be a little different and what drive those decisions and I don't know where the city council members land but if they're if their approach if many of them are I'd like to say yes to every single development that comes here because I think more development is going to make this a better a better town for everybody then that's gonna that's you're gonna lean that direction I guess I kind of leaned a maybe not quite so much and in my input on myself is would be something I would want to see in this town I have no political gains no anything related to anything here what will make this nice in that situation related to corporate farms and such that property was original there was previously medium density which is six how many units five to eight five to eight so you can developer were to come in would we want 560 dwellings on that I don't understand there's nobody I can ask that why was it changed why did the council and that mayor want to change from medium density to more Industrial I can make an assumption is it's our current industrial serves its purpose but it isn't all that in my mind eye appealing so to speak it's kind of a hot podge put this would be a wall or a border and then we roll into residential that's only assumption on my part again my biggest thing the the Farm the people that owned it are just what you sought this evening it's a farm that was purchased back in 1940 and in the same family for all these years and no one wants to farm anymore they have a right to sell but developers come in we want to buy but we want to change it to a PUD they come in request if we say no they get a follow orders I mean that's that's the way it is they're they're asking one of the comments or questions that came up with the council meeting I can't remember if you asked the council member Baron camper for somebody else somebody asked the question okay the property Zone industrial they could go develop it in accordance with the industrial zoning without having to go through a PUD process and the question was well what would that look like and I just I asked that it'd be nice to see what it was like as I said was as I sat and listen some of the concerns that I think got raised would still be concerns even if it wasn't a PUD because it would still be an industrial development so I'm wondering if there was a be a very simple schematic this is if it was developed in accordance with the current codes this is what it'll look like and these are the variances these are the things that are being asked for extra as a part of the Pud because I think some of the things that are concerning people would be an issue regardless of whether it was a PUD or not in in what came to the council and those folks they're worried about lighting those kind of things we have ordinances related to a monolithing um headlights shining up Neighbors um I'm not crazy about one in one out an entrance and an entrance out with an emergency entrance on the other side all of those things are things I think you guys may have the same concerns about so I love to hear it but not just but you guys recommended no don't be offended yet five other people listen more have ideas have thoughts and we can come up with a good plan but it has to be something in my mind that would the city's got the benefit greatly out of this to to go to a conditional use permit or excuse me too many acronyms leave a building that's got so many and then I come here so I didn't do you guys you guys don't understand what I'm saying I hope and and I I don't know any one of the five votes up there that are saying yes or no yet we are listening very openly too and I have no idea if it'll even a decision will even be made at the next meeting well and I'd like to add that um I've been on this commission for three or four years now and in that period of time this commission has turned over almost two times with its members um so I I guess I've I've um I've outlived a few um and you lived here the longest of all of us I think yeah um but anyhow I think I'm fully tenured enough to and qualified to say this um it's from the very beginning it's never been my understanding that it's my responsibility to help the people who are applying for something it's not my responsibility to help them get it right um we have the planning that goes on they work with the individuals on their projects and they say okay if this is what you want this is what you're going to have to do by the time it comes to this Commission I've already read all of the materials and I've pretty much made up my decision how I'm going to vote but I I get frustrated with the amount of potential negotiations well if you sweeten the package a little bit then uh then you will yeah okay we'll get your project in and everything um when when we're presented with a project I'm assuming that it's the last word and so when when uh we have a 45-minute discussion about well they're not really meeting these criteria and and so um you know maybe we can just kind of uh run out of bounds real quickly here and come back in or whatever it's it's frustrating and um I don't I don't think I have to present a whole lot of reasons why I'm voting against it if I'm against it if I if I don't like the project itself I I don't like it and I'm not I'm not going to my vote isn't going to be bribed in any way by saying well if if we get another acre down at the park with swing sets and things no I mean that that should all be taken care of before it reaches us and I think one of my other frustrations is um you know you you can't always get what you want I mean it's it's true but the amount of times that I and others have voted down projects that that and and we're we're an advisory committee and um it's not like I think that the the council should vote every time according to the way I vote but it's frustrating when uh we we bring up valid concerns and they're not listed listen to intently uh or voted on in in that way so amen thank you good comments very cool commissioner shulock could I ask you a question sure would you agree with me that um any landowner can sell their property whether we want them to or not do you see our role as preventing someone from selling their property no neither do I thank you any other questions for councilman bear account [Music] thank you for your comments you bet let's see uh any other business 2023 priority setting discussion I see that here correct Mr chair permission uh typically in the past a summary of work completed in the prior year as well as a list of what the planning commissions use as priorities in addressing our code have been forwarded to the council in March and speaking with our new city administrator she would like for that discussion to happen much sooner so we can forward our recommendations and priorities to the council in January when they are setting the work plan for the year so we can have it be involved in the discussion much sooner um just because by March they usually have a plan set in place and so it's harder for us to deviate from that so wanted to start that discussion it does not have to be a long discussion we have a whole nother meeting before uh we really should have something nailed down uh the two items that I identified just based on some previous conversations some changes that we wanted to see and had forwarded an informal recommendation to the council was cleaning up the Adu requirements specifically providing Clarity and the requirement for an accessory dwelling unit to be attached or above a garage and then also a recent discussion about administrative approvals for legal non-conformities to allow for basically the slay Bob variance application to have been approved administratively going forward for similar situated properties so those are the two I remember wanted to see if you remembered anything else or if there's any other ideas that the commission had that we could add may I I do have some ideas and I recognize that the ideas that were listed already came out of work that had come before the Commission in the previous year and the thing the one that I wanted to touch on doesn't come out of anything that's come before the commission but it has come up from residence and that is the farm animals or non-traditional animals the requirement right now is that you have to have a half an acre to have any Farm or non-traditional animal after sitting on the commission for a little over a year we have not seen nearly like the majority of the houses that are being built are on less than half an acre and so my concern is is that um is that we're really having this ordinance opportunity and yet the buildings that are being like built don't even allow for that as an opportunity so I wanted to perhaps revisit that as a possibility to allow more uh residents to be producers of their food rather than just consumers um and then that led into a general question this maybe is for a yearly training rather than um rather than an issue that the Planning Commission would go on but I feel like I don't have enough of an understanding of the relationship of homeowners associations to the city council it feels to me like all of the neighborhoods going up have homeowners associations even the ones in the rural residential neighborhood yet the um homeowners association like um you know write up or whatever it doesn't come before the commission or the council at any point in the development and so is that anything I just want to understand is it anything that anyone from a city perspective gets to have uh any buy-in on is there anything that the city can say hey this is far more restrictive than our city code therefore you know we we are going to say you don't get to put it in there and I guess the question comes more because they're National Builders uh so the homeowners associations are sticking around a lot longer than you know they used to in Maple Grove you would see them when the neighborhoods would be developed and then nobody would eventually maintain the homeowners associations and they would kind of disband and so I just want to make sure that I understand that the role of that um I personally don't necessarily understand why someone would subject themselves to another level of governing body but it is common and so I just want to make sure I'm understanding its place and if there's any connection or um ability that a city has to speak into those thank you commissioner Roman I'll just add I'm in an HOA and the reason why I decided to have another governing body is because they're taking care of my snow and my grass so that I don't have to but um but yeah we could I think a training on HOAs and um in the limitations that the city has with those governing documents would we could definitely do something like that yeah because I do know that at least the residents who've asked about the farming non-traditional animals I mean their greater battle is going to be with their homeowners association than with the city but does that like to have chickens if you have right like um uh Quail is a really big one in Suburban residential neighborhoods right now because they're not as loud nor as messy as chickens um and so you know but even technically a rabbit is considered a farm slash non-traditional animal and believe it or not with the diversity in this neighborhood rabbits are not an uncommon uh meat to eat and so anyway that is it's just things that we need to think about miss Mr chair if I can jump in please I I used to have somebody that think they needed a rooster to be able to have eggs you can you can have a whole lot more quiet chickens if you don't have a rooster and uh the likelihood of evolving into a noise ordinance and those kind of things again you don't need a rooster to have eggs it's hard to understand sometimes what some people say thank you I love the discussion you guys good the Adu issue it looks like was also on the list for 2021 so I don't know if that was addressed in 2021 and needs to continue to be updated but there's also an article on the Star Tribune today on Ado adus across the metro area and all a bunch of municipalities are starting to reevaluate that and I think minnetonk and Plymouth as two adjacent communities both have recently updated their ad requirements so it seems like that's a Hot Topic around town at least other people it's addressing the same issue yeah thank you yeah I saw that and I will add Mr chair if I could that we did receive like I said a little earlier we received an application to reevaluate some of the aspects of our edu ordinance so I'll probably tack that on in there but um at the same time I don't know I don't believe his I have to go through I don't know if that's what he's necessarily requesting um so I would be like his request versus my request but knowing that that's the commission's goal I can kind of get it all in one so thank you and I'd like to take just one second I I like learning in my role here commissioner shuloff could I just ask you um a couple more questions because I know you're you've been here much longer than any of us have been it's my understanding that you're a reserve with the city correct yes how long have you been a reserve next week it'll be four years how many four years wow okay well and thank you in your role as a Reserve officer is is part of your role to enforce city code absolutely and in your experience as a Reserve officer here is uh and you enforce city code is city code optional or is it to be followed there's there's no option it it needs to be followed okay thank you thanks for clearing that up for me um let's see [Music] is there any other priority setting discussion or is that done okay I don't know I don't know if nervanda 90 uh I don't know if you've heard priorities or yourself Mr chair but that's okay okay all right thank you and and let's get to the commissioner liaison calendar November 10th I have uh commissioner foreign are you able to attend that yeah yep okay excellent uh commissioner shulock I see that you're scheduled to attend uh the ever important November 21st meeting I see that that's in red is that because that's a Monday okay uh are you able to attend that yes I am great thank you I might attend with you commissioner Van Den ID are you good for December 8th yep excellent commissioner brummond I see that you're scheduled for December 21st are you still available I am excellent thank you and going out into next year uh you know this is way out but commissioner horn you are currently scheduled for January 12th and I am scheduled for the January 26 meeting if if any of you run into scheduling issues please just let me know and if I'm available I'm happy to to fill in if I can okay thank you can I get a motion to adjourn I'll make that motion second it's shulock all in favor say aye aye aye oppose a name great thank you