When i bought my first house in 1991 and a  friend of mine was the city planner at the time and he said we've got an opening on the planning  commission and you'd be a good fit for this you know it would. So i applied and what i  remember vividly was there was a city council member that was in my softball league, and he was  on a different team, and we were warming up before a game and he came over and wanted to play catch  with me, which was kind of unusual. So you know i'm throwing a ball with the city council member  and he's just you know we're making small talk. I find out later that was my interview basically  so i get appointed to the planning commission and it was just one of those unique times  where there was a lot of turn where there were a lot of veterans that were ready to retire  off and at 31, i would i ended up being chair of the planning commission at 31 or 32, whatever it  was, and just because i knew how to run a meeting, how to chair a meeting and [he thought] chuck  seems to know what he's doing. And then where it just took off from there was just uh two or three  years later there was a vacancy in city council uh and it was a very common practice to appoint  somebody from the planning commission because you know so much of its land use, so i end up in city  council. Within six months i was a deputy mayor because i knew how to run a meeting, so that's  kind of the through-line to the whole thing and then at that time the incumbent mayor didn't  really like being mayor, she just wanted to you know she wanted to be a council member, so  i essentially ran as an incumbent uh but not as an incumbent but i ran you know with the  support of the council. Got elected mayor in 96, and then i was done being mayor in in 2008,  i just went back to the planning commission. I just really enjoy it, which then gets to your  your your point that these boards and commissions are satisfying. You know i wouldn't i wouldn't  do it if it wasn't fun. I mean so basically since 1991, i've either been on the planning commission  or on city council. It's enjoyable work. I remember something i said years ago  as: simple and obvious as it sounds, you make government better by getting  involved. There's maybe not a lot you can do at the federal level, there's not  a lot you can do at your state level, but you can make government better at the local  level by being involved. It's just that simple. There is there's always an opportunity for someone that has an interest to jump in and make a  difference, and it can truly be satisfying. There's two points that i can add to  answer your question on final thoughts. One is that, as i said earlier, you get involved  and you make your community better. I think most people do something to make their community  better, whether it's volunteer at church, you know boy scouts, girl scouts, 4-H, you know some  fraternal organization; most people do something. Just add this to the list of the something that  you could do; make it a consideration. The other thing it is incredibly satisfying to be able to  be at a point where i'm at. And i'm not saying you've got to give it - i mean i'm coming in on my  30th anniversary of being on a board or commission city of Faribault, that's an exception and  that's part of why this interview is happening - my how it's impacted my life, you know the the  the real job the full-time job i've got right now is through this job, i met my wife because i  was mayor, you know i mean just the the personal impact; but what's satisfying is over the course  of a a career, that i can drive around town and point to things that i was involved in that  discussion. I was involved in that decision; that, hey, that building is there because i was  part of the committee that had this conversation. That building, you know, that facade looks a lot  different because i was part of a vote part of a discussion. I think it looks better because i  had some input; that's really satisfying and that takes a few years to get that. Conversely, there's  a couple of things that drive by i look at you okay i can't believe i voted to approve  that, but that comes with the territory, too. But by and large it's an incredibly satisfying  thing to be able to point at something that you think looks good in your community,  that's an asset to your community, and to be able to say i was part of that, i was  part of a discussion that got that to happen.