Here is the townhall transcript with speaker names added based on the context of the meeting: **[4:58] Mayor Dan B.:** Be noted with the color guard please present the colors please stand **[5:37] Mayor Dan B.:** At White Bear Lake the flag of our nation and the pledge to follow of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all right **[7:08] Mayor Dan B.:** To be thank you it's always a privilege to Bear witness to the color guard there's no better way to open a meeting so we thank you for that all right let's jump into the approval of the minutes I trust everyone's had a chance to review the minutes from the regular city council meeting on July 25th 2023. **[7:30] Mayor Dan B.:** If so I'd have an entertain a motion to approve the minutes move to approve do I have a second have a motion a second all those in favor of approving the minutes from July 25th 2023 say aye aye any opposed motion carries emits are approved item three adoption of the agenda are there any corrections or amendments to the agenda seeing none approval I have a motion do I have a second all those in favor say aye aye any opposed motion carries we have an agenda item four consent agenda I'd entertain a motion to approve the consent agenda so moved second I have a motion a second all those in favor say aye aye any opposed consent agendas approved item five visitors and presentations item a employee recognition and swearing-in of the police officers Chief Swanson please **[8:15] Chief Swanson (Police):** Thank you mayor and members of the council and thank you to our honor guard for being here today I'm not sure if I'm going a little off agenda here but I'm going to start with an employee recognition we're here to honor several people tonight we have a swearing-in tonight and there's a lot of things that will probably smoke spark many different emotions in each of us so it's a big agenda for police and fire tonight so we're going to begin with recognizing a longtime Police Department volunteer employee who recently tired and I would ask that Jim Kmetz would come up I don't know where he was in the audience you could just come up and stand near me Jim **[9:02] Chief Swanson (Police):** Thank you so Jim was not only a member of the White Bear Lake Police Department but he's also a long time proud resident of the city of White Bear Lake on our South End Jim began his career with the Department as a volunteer police Reserve officer while he was still working full-time at 3M and he became a Reserve officer he often said because he was looking for a meaningful way to give back to his community I think he quickly found that it became a second family for him when once he started that endeavor he quickly became a familiar face in his uniform as he worked many high school football games manitow days parades Fourth of July Events and Market Fest just want to pause on the high school football games I did almost run Jim over at a football game and cost four thousand dollars in damage to a squad when I avoided running Jim over so I had to throw the high school football games in there while working these events and helping the officers on patrol Jim was often training in New reserves or community service officers to teach them the ropes also he served as a Reserve officer for 18 years and volunteered over 3811 hours during that time when Jim retired from 3M an opportunity presented itself in May 2009 for him to take on a bigger role with the police department and he was offered a part-time position as a community service officer he continued to serve in a very similar capacity as he had been as a reserve and he was always willing to help out where he was needed in addition to working the events dodging people almost running him over and helping on patrol helping other departments throughout the city he also maintained the police squad Fleet and documented the hundreds of thousands of training hours for the police staff the miles driven on squad cars the amount of gallons of gas that we went through and how much it was costing the city his record keeping and attention to detail quickly became an asset to the police department and the city particularly when we came to adopting budgets and although we were really sad to see him decide to officially retire from all employment on June 6th of this year we are excited for him as he embarks on his next chapter after serving the city of White Bear Lake for 18 years as a volunteer Reserve officer and 14 years as a CSO and we had to wait you can come on down Miss Crawford but we had to wait until this meeting because he was pretty busy on family vacations in the meantime so Cindy city manager Lindy Crawford will represent Jim with the city of White Bear Lake bear award for his many years of dedicated service **[11:20] Lindy Crawford (City Manager):** Thank you **[11:56] Jim Kmetz (Retiree):** Thank you all it soon became a family and I call these officers here my brothers and sisters other agencies they're my cousins that's how it felt like and it's it was a very rewarding I worked here and I felt more rewarded here many days and nights than I did in my paid job ethereum so I had a excellent time here I miss my friends co-workers and I trust them every one with my life because that's how it was so thank you for the recognition thank you **[12:44] Chief Swanson (Police):** Okay so we're going to shift gears and honor our newest police officer as he officially takes his oath of office I'm sure it's pretty nerve-wracking for him because it's a pretty darn Full House for him to have to endure so Lauren is up here in the front with his family officer Lauren Edmond began his police career with the White Bear Lake Police Department on April 17th of 2023 in these past few months he's been really busy learning the city and the ins and outs of the city and everything about police work Lauren grew up in St Paul and graduated from Concordia Academy High School although I just found out he was a student at St Bernard's which I was also that's my alma mater he says that family time and sports were a huge part of his life growing up and he's grateful to his parents for setting him up for Success that led to many life experiences and these experiences molded him into who he is today his parents and family should be very proud of him because he is he has molded himself into a very admirable person Lauren chose a career in law enforcement because of the impact that community policing has and the opportunity for officers to play a role in changing and growing their Community he's been surrounded by many family members in law enforcement and I think that that was very familiar to him as he grew up Lauren has a passion for others and cares deeply for the success of the community all of which make him a great fit for our Police Department After High School Lauren attended Century College where paths crossed again where he earned a degree in law enforcement while in college Lauren also worked for the Saint Paul police department as a community engagement Cadet and that experience will serve him very well in his role as a police officer his fiancee family and friends joined Lauren tonight and he and officer Schiek have a family connection they are family and he has selected officer Schiek to pin his badge on so I would ask both Lauren and officer Schiek to come up and then Cali will read the oath of office and I have the badge here **[14:51] Cali (City Clerk):** All right please raise your right hand repeat after me I, Lauren Edmond, do solemnly swear that I will support the Constitution of the United States, the Constitution of the State of Minnesota, and the ordinances of the City of White Bear Lake, and I will faithfully and impartially discharge the duties of the office as a police officer for the city of White Bear Lake without fear or favor to the best of my judgment and ability **[15:22] Officer Lauren Edmond:** [Repeats the oath] as a police officer for the city of White Bear Lake without fear or favor without fear or favor to the best of my judgment to the best of my judgment and ability [Applause] **[16:07] Chief Swanson (Police):** Yeah I think you've never done it before not from this side right not from that angle yeah she is so proud I've been crying **[16:40] Chief Swanson (Police):** Okay so lastly we will be recognizing and honoring four police officers and seven firefighters EMS staff for their heroic efforts earlier this year so before we get started I know they're not going to be happy but I am going to ask them to come towards the front of the room so that you can see who we are recognizing we have a very full house so we have um from the police department we have officer Ryan Schiek, Sergeant Eric Gavoille, officer Ponvilai Sorensen and officer Connor Dillon and then from fire we have Captain Matt Stallings, Lieutenant Steve Volber, firefighter paramedic Josh Cermak, firefighter paramedic Drew Gavoille, firefighter paramedic Jeremy Mock, firefighter paramedic Mitch Brown and firefighter EMT Ben Ferderer **[17:27] Chief Swanson (Police):** Wow at least I'm covered I'm well covered all right so this is a harder one to wait you got me this is a harder one to to go through just because as I said we've been very joyous and recognizing everybody's um efforts and being sworn in to going to what has probably been one of the darkest days for the city of White Bear Lake and the White Bear Lake Police Department fortunately we have a very happy ending and I know that you were all sitting in this room on that night and I was pretty darn far away trying to get a hold of you in this room once I got that phone call but just I'm gonna give a high recap of what happened that night and then talk about what brings us here today so on January 24th 2023 around 8 30 p.m officers responded to an apartment in the 3100 block of carth road to serve an arrest warrant for a subject that our police officers have had numerous contacts with in the past so he's very well known to us when officers arrived the subject was uncooperative and shut himself in a bedroom and refused to come out the officers and scene spent a great deal of time talking and negotiating with the subject to attempt to get him to come out of the room this is not uncommon for any interaction that we've had with him and standing to my left is Officer Schiek who is a SWAT negotiator so he has great experience with that and has always had a great rapport with the subject the subject continued to yell at the officers after several minutes he suddenly opened the door and fired at the officers inside the apartment officer Schiek was struck by the gunfire and was critically injured officers fired back as the they retreated from the apartment and that was quite a bit of chaos because as you can imagine to have a gun go off inside an apartment and there's yelling and screaming and you're trying to get her own furniture and get out in a hurry so despite all of the emotions chaos and Trauma that ensued these officers remain calm and worked together to to save their lives and avert any further tragedy even after being shot multiple times officer Schiek remained alert and talked to his Partners which kept everyone focused and helped them get out of the apartment quickly officers Dylan and Sorensen provided Medical Care to officer Schiek outside the apartment door while he continued to talk and reassure them both our newer officers and the either the father or the field training officer or the senior officer took over and officer she kept reassuring them and helping them so that they could all get out of there meanwhile Sergeant Gavoille remained at the apartment door by himself holding the perimeter and calling for additional resources while officer Dylan and Sorensen brought officer Schiek to safety and turned him over to the White Bear Lake firefighters and EMS staff and when I talk about him calling in resources we're talking it's about 30 seconds he's calling for everyone to help and he's calling a boss to tell him that there was a shooting so and yelling at the subject and trying to maintain that perimeter although their thoughts were with their injured partner the three officers remained inside the building and held a perimeter until additional help arrived so they delivered them to the firefighters and paramedics and they ran back inside to continue to help Sergeant Gavoille after a long standoff the subject was safely taken into custody by the SWAT team although we know the inherent danger that police officers face every day this call is one of the worst for anyone to hear come across the radio or a phone call to get now we see it on social media and especially difficult for a spouse to get this night was life-changing for all four of these officers their families the police department and the firefighters they went from a normal ordinary workday attending roll call and deciding what they were going to have for dinner to suddenly in the fight for their life to save their lives each of them walked away with the deeper bond with each other a new perspective on the career and life so despite the tragic events of that night we are very thankful to have all four of them physically here and with us today at this point I'm going to ask Chief Peterson to come up and just say a few words and then I will go talk into the awards that they're receiving tonight **[21:18] Chief Peterson (Fire):** Thank you Chief Swanson I just want to add on a few things as Chief Swanson mentioned it was it was quite a night it's something that we hope would never happen I want to add it was bitterly cold that night too so that didn't help anything at all um in in perspective of what our firefighters did that night they responded to this call and it was kind of unsure what was really going on when they first arrived when they got there there were still shots being fired as they were being approached by the officers with officer Schiek who was shot multiple times so the the firefighters met them met the officers brought them into the ambulance quickly treated and transported him down to a local Trauma Center which worked out very very well after that they stayed on scene and they worked with the SWAT team because you know fortunately the SWAT team was drilling that night there was a lot of SWAT people there in a big hurry and so they stayed on scene with the SWAT team and helped with things on scenes such as getting the SWAT team equipment ladders forcible entry tools also helping to control the utilities within the building so to silence the alarm system and shut off the water and do other things so they were in the building while this standoff was taking place so they did a fabulous job at that and coordinating with police and fire you know we love to give each other a hard time but when it comes to stuff like this it's all business and we just take care of each other the last thing that was difficult for him was after the suspect was taken into custody we also had to treat that gentleman and transport him and he was very defiant he keep threatening the officers while he was in the ambulance and so the the paramedics that were were treating him um you know he was not pleasant to to deal with but their professionalism shine through in the fact that they treated him as nice and with the respect as they could they treat him as any other patient and that's very very difficult to do when a friend of yours just got shot so I just wanted to point out what uh what our involvement was there thank you **[23:35] Chief Swanson (Police):** Chief Peterson one thing that I want to note although he's not up here but he is standing in the back is he Chief Peterson talked about SWAT coming so this team this police team consists of Sergeant Gavoille officer Schiek officer Dylan officer Sorensen and also officer Mark Barlau who is on the SWAT team and was training so can you imagine having something worse than getting a phone call that you were supposed to that you're typically with these people every night 12 hours a night and you're responding to help one of your best friends so I don't want to minimize Mark's recognition as well the police department has an awards policy that is intended to reward Personnel for achieving or maintaining levels of performance which are consistent with the highest standards of the law enforcement profession although there are so many people in both the police and fire departments and neighboring agencies that played a huge role in this incident it's very fitting that we are here to honor these four officers and the fire staff that treated officer Schiek so we have various Awards to recognize The Bravery of each of them and I'm just going to highlight what they are for starting with the firefighters we have a life-saving award which is awarded for Action which in disregard of personal safety or by prompt and alert action results in the saving of the life of another person this award is being given to Captain Matt Stallings Lieutenant Steve Volber, firefighter paramedic Josh Cermak, Drew Gavoille, Jeremy Mock, Mitch Brown and firefighter EMT Ben Ferderer um so they will all receive a life-saving award pin sadly they're on back order because of whatever we're still in a back order so I'm really sorry but you will be receiving them very shortly the pin is a red and white pin that they can display on their uniform noting their involvement in this situation next we have the Medal of Honor and that is awarded for outstanding heroism or bravery in circumstances Beyond normal expectations of Duty and at imminent personal Hazard of the actor's life with full knowledge of the risk involved and in keeping with the highest standards of the law enforcement profession the Medal of Honor is being given to Sergeant Gavoille, officer Dylan and officer Sorensen and again they will have a pin that is on their uniform and it's a bar pin that will have the word honor on it and again I know that there is quite a definition for these Awards but I just want to note that none of them thought about the personal Hazard of their life or the risk that was involved in it because this is second nature for them and they were just concerned about helping their partner lastly we have the medal of valor we have the metal of Valor which honors an act of Bravery that demonstrates obvious self-sacrifice in the face of death or serious physical injury officer Schiek exemplifies this award he suffered three gunshot wounds that evening spent over a week in the hospital has injured six and a half months of surgeries physical therapy and healing we are thrilled to report that he returned to work this week and I will get into his award in a minute but I want to just also recognize his wife Amber who is in the audience um it's been six and a half months of her keeping the family together and her making sure that Ryan is taking it easy I can't imagine that that was easy to do but her strength and resilience is very admirable I want to also recognize her involvement and thank her for always being there and worrying about everybody else in the department everybody else in the team she was there immediately making sure that everybody else is okay when her life had just been changed drastically so each person recognized here tonight will receive their pin noting their award that can be worn on their uniform so please um before we get to that I guess I do have one award here for Ryan so this is the medal of valor um I'll show it here so you will also have a pin that goes on your uniform this is more of a display metal of Fowler so each person is going to get their pin but I'd like to have everyone join me in honoring and thanking each of them for their bravery and their sacrifice as a result of that evening so [Applause] **[28:24] Chief Swanson (Police):** thank you **[29:26] Officer Ryan Schiek:** I think Ryan would like to say a few words before we wrap it up well I'll keep it short I got a lot of people to thank and I'll do that over time be impossible to thank everybody so uh take this as uh thank you to everybody and if I don't get to you um thank you right now if you can hear me and love you for supporting me and my family so all right first so I want to say thank you to my wife for the obvious she's a rock so thank you to her for that thank you to my team our team um I mean I don't know what to say um you know it was a crappy situation we worked together training kicked in I am super proud and thankful for everybody that evening that was on my team for how you acted and reacted and supported each other and just got the job done and so thank you um to my buddies on the fire team I've been meaning to get to you guys in a meeting and to thank you guys um that Day's coming but for now um just thank you when I hit that ambulance I mean I like to joke around with you guys like to show up to Medical calls you guys know me we're buddies and um as soon as I hit that ambulance I know I had the A-Team and it was um honestly it was really reassuring and I don't know who called my wife but thank you for doing that and just giving her a sense of reassurance and um calmness that she needed until she got to the hospital so um thanks to the city uh thanks to what you guys have done for my family and I and our department those at um went on the journey with me that day and um you know thanks to the community for anybody from the communities here um it's just been um just very um uh just overwhelming with the support that everybody's been given us and so um thank you for that and I hope this never happens again but if it does I know that we're going to handle it the same way and with a lot of care consideration support and love for those that are going through it and so everybody from um my wife to myself to my my teammates here uh to fire to the city everybody did a great job so thank you thank you very much [Applause] thank you **[32:50] Mayor Dan B.:** thank you no thank you I just wanted to just to briefly say on behalf of the council that our officers and firefighters made us all very proud that night we were all sitting here when that call came in and it was Uncharted Territory for everyone on the council and we were I wouldn't say panicking but didn't know what to do and as a advisory policy board there's not a lot we can do in these situations and we defer to those that administer the duties and the job of administering the business of the city so our city manager and our Chiefs rallied together and did what they they could do and unfortunately uh that the council could kind of just sit back and and offer well wishes and support but the events of January 24th were a reminder to this Council and to everyone just how dangerous your jobs are so the things that we can control are how we allocate resources and how we support you and I think I speak for the council that we will continue and want to renew our commitment to provide you folks with the necessary resources that you need to do your jobs our priority obviously is first and foremost to provide the best service to the residents of our community but it's I think always on our minds that our number two priority is to make sure that you folks go home to your family safely in the same way that anyone would want to do so I just want to say thank you for your continued service and your heroism on that night and renew our commitment to make sure that you folks have the resources you need to do your job as best you can and as safely as possible and while mitigating the risk as best you can so let's give our First Responders one more round of applause **[36:01] Mayor Dan B.:** How am I going to be mean to Senator Gustafson after that did you mute your mic all right item 5c legislative update Senator Gustafson please join us in you have the unenviable task of following that but I I trust you'll do a fine job so the podium is yours **[36:48] Senator Heather Gustafson:** I'm gonna come back a different time it was very emotional um so thank you mayor council members it really is um it's good to be here um I I know you've been following closely I want to First say thank you to the city manager um you've just done an amazing job and she's always been just so responsive and you've just just been a joy to work with and um I think like back and forth of the communication about what you need and then being able to meet and that goes to all of you I think a few of you have reached out if you have and I missed your email I'm so sorry please keep reaching out I think you all have my cell phone numbers um Mayor yours I got and put into my contacts and your address populated into my calendar so happy birthday I see it's next week [Laughter] yeah my calendar so happy birthday to them to the Midway Bear Lake there he is so um anyways uh but it's good it's good to be back home it's good to be out of session and be back in the community again um I don't know uh what I can you know I can run through all of the things there are quite a few things and we'd be here forever um so one of the things I just wanted to highlight I think is appropriate is that I think what the mayor said about law enforcement is something that I agree with on every word of that um I've always had a good relationship with the law enforcement in our community I continue to keep those lines open with the communication in all nine cities um you know but especially obviously those that are in uh that have police departments in my district um and I listen to them and the message that you just said is pretty much what I have said to my caucus as well this is important for us to support our law enforcement and not just by words but by money and policy and resources and so we fought really hard to get that 300 million dollars delivered to every city every city and every County and new this year I advocated that for every Township over ten thousand so I think you know which one I'm talking about um but White Bear Lake was got over a million dollars and then of course as being part of Ramsey County which received over six million dollars that goes directly towards any public safety needs that you have it is in local control so as you sit there in your seats it is up to you to make that big decision about where those dollars are best spent um I know that you all have really good relationships with law enforcement fire paramedics so um I trust that you will all make the right decision based on what White Bear Lake's needs are but it is up to you to decide so um I had heard a couple of ideas of where the money would go but again um you know you you all do a really good job of being connected to the community so I I trust that you'll know what to do best with that and I'm sure all of those men and women who are just here will have lots of opinions on where you could spend the money as well so that being said um [Music] um you know might concern you I also don't know if you you know if a question and answer is what you're looking for right now but we are um I really did try to keep White Bear Lake and local control over some of the big projects that were coming down the pipeline in my mind at all times we did take on I think I believe I saw that cannabis was on your agenda tonight and that was a that was one that you were all very good about communicating with me on um I think I stood here during session and told you what my concerns with it were as well um I have checked in with White Bear Lake law enforcement just this past week during the night to unite and asked how it was going and they were pretty open to say that they didn't have any concerns that so far things were going well and that they weren't too worried but you know famous last words so we'll just keep it in mind but I will depend on you all to keep me updated if there are things that we can do in this next session to um you know change things if they need changing but it is one of the things that I worked on especially with the local control issue before my Amendment it was some if somebody was selling or Distributing cannabis illegally it had to go through the state agency which sort of seemed silly to me because we would not handle an alcohol violation like that we would call law enforcement and act appropriately And Timely so that Amendment did pass and was included and now local law enforcement has the ability to act immediately if necessary instead of having to go through a state agency which seemed a little bit silly in the first place um also I was successful in getting the sales tax increased because if we're all doing it we should at least see some of those dollars spent in our own Community um and and so those were some of the successes that I had uh behind the scenes that made it to the floor so I'm happy to answer any other questions that you might have but I know it's been a full night too so I can come back another time or you all again I think have my cell phone number and I would encourage you to use it so yeah thank you Senator I'll open up to the council if they have any questions I just want to say thank you for showing up and just reporting and staying in touch I applaud you on on your efforts to just stay engaged so that various levels of government are communicating it's a relatively new thing for this Council to have a legislative agenda and I think that's good that's good that we do that and we stay engaged in in the state laws that affect local government so thank you for for just staying connected and being here tonight and with that council do we have any questions for the senator council member Walsh **[41:24] Councilmember Walsh:** Thank you Mr I don't know if it's for the senator and it's not related it's related to something on the agenda the lake level issue the task force or what do we call it a task force going forward um we have a wave of Representative on that task force is that who appoints that have we done that yeah I just don't think considering who's that going to be and what's the thought process there **[42:11] Lindy Crawford (City Manager):** mayor councilmember Walsh it is a very technical committee so the city engineer will be attending that and then I will be the alternate they have not started meeting yet but met Council has started to get that rolling okay thank you **[42:11] Councilmember Jones:** thank you Mr Mayor thank you Senator Gustafson for being here I've seen you more than our previous in literally the last year than I had in 16 as I've been on the council more importantly you don't just show up whether I believe that you've achieved our goals I know I believe that you were fighting for them which is probably that's all you can do and I appreciate that but I still want more as you should yeah um and specifically regard I'm just trying to think that which one I want to beat you over the head with first no I'm kidding um really the DMV was I why shouldn't we sh and I don't want I I'm trying to figure out how to preface this I want a DMV here I want this here I want people to come into our city hall I want that service to be offered by our residents why shouldn't we shutter our doors if we continue to lose money like any other private business or like the city of Maplewood and make a decision tonight to close them we're not doing this please we're not doing this press but that's what they did staff employees jobs no I mean I was like we will fight for that but that's what I mean communities are doing it because you guys aren't moving this wasn't good enough wasn't good enough and if the state wants to pay local municipalities or private businesses to do their job we're going to have more and more problems we're going to have longer and longer lines because places like the city of Maplewood are going to continue to do that I'm not looking for a response I I just like this has got to change other legislative legislators I have to understand this this is a service that is so important to everyone in the state identification all the licensing that goes with it um with that that's all I have and I appreciate though that you were there and and seeing the communication and seeing that happen that that meant a lot so thank you for that effort thank you Mr Mayor **[43:43] Senator Heather Gustafson:** Anyone else on the council have a thought or a question well thank you again for being here we appreciate the update and we look forward to continuing to work with you and staying touch about what our mutual goals are thank you very much thank you **[45:20] Lindy Crawford (City Manager):** okay item six a first reading of an ordinance amending chapter 1104 tobacco and related products Miss Crawford thank you mayor members of the council so the the city currently does not expressly regulate tobacco shops as a separate use in the zoning code in addition the city regulations for tobacco products need to be updated to keep Pace with recent changes in both federal and state law to address these areas the city council adopted an interim ordinance on September 27 2022 to authorize a study and impose a moratorium on the establishment or expansion of tobacco shops so during that period of time the City attorney staff and I have been studying current regulations and have prepared an amended ordinance language for tobacco licensure for review and public comment so tonight we are conducting a first reading and a public hearing for that ordinance the ordinance is in your packet and I will just highlight some of the some I'll highlight some some parts of the ordinance for you so um we updated definitions and I have a new definition for tobacco product shop as it relates to exclusive tobacco product shops we are proposing a limit of 10 tobacco license in any given year in city limits for tobacco product shops exclusively we've updated regulations to align with recent changes in both federal and state laws and we've granted Council authority to impose administrative penalties for violating state laws or local ordinances I want to preface this is not an ordinance that discusses zoning we will discuss that later on tonight so with that I stand for um for questions for your first reading there are specific things you want to address that we you request us to bring back for the second reading that's what we're looking for tonight **[46:54] Mayor Dan B.:** all right well this being scheduled for a public hearing I will open this up for a public hearing at this time if anyone would like to speak to this issue and I'll note that I have no names on the sign up sheet would anyone like to speak to this issue seeing nana will close the public hearing and bring it back to the council Council thoughts or questions for Ms Crawford on this yeah I think the silence is a reflection of we've you know council member Hughes **[47:46] Councilmember Hughes:** I do have one I know we spoke about it um married members of the council we spoke about it a little bit um in the past and so I just wanted to bring It Forward because I'm actually going to talk about it on the next one as well the limit on the maximum number of licenses issued by the city in any year and I just want to I guess question again why we are limiting what is a legal business opportunity like what is our what is our reasoning for doing that I don't really know who I'm asking that question of except you and maybe ourselves why are we agreeing to that why are we doing that **[48:33] Lindy Crawford (City Manager):** so um mayor councilmember Hughes it's uh just an idea at this point that we had discussed previously um it it's as I said it's just in here right now the city does have sticks tobacco exclusive tobacco shops we have not had this as a use previously so they've kind of plopped wherever as they as they could so we did take a look and see you know how frequently are these popping up just so just so we had an idea so we had our newest tobacco product shop open in June of 2022 previously October 2019 then July 2018 September 2015 and then one before 2015 and one before 2005. so it's not very frequent but again just a suggestion **[49:19] Mayor Dan B.:** well and I'll just Echo that right because we talked about it in our in our work sessions uh I think the thinking was well one we don't want to stifle any other any legal private business but there was some public interest in making sure that we don't saturate one given thing we don't want to be the the destination with 40 tobacco shops and because we had talked about it and decided Well if there's six ten is a pretty good number because it allows plenty of flexibility while at least codifying in our ordinance that hey there is there's a limit to this and I think that that speaks to any business for that matter well I'm will be the first to say I don't want to control what the private sector does I think as a governing body there's an interest in having a diversity of businesses so I think that's really what that that cap reflects more than anything and then on a final note an ordinance can always be amended so if it if we deem it to be good public policy a few years from now that hey there's 10 shops and an 11th wants to come in we can always amend that so that's my thinking on why that cap is there and I I for one like it so council member Walsh did you ever you said it perfect councilmember edberg **[50:04] Councilmember Edberg:** thank you Mr Mayor so I am in agreement with council member Hughes um I can't Envision why we would we had this conversation we've had we have had a conversational work study about the basis and I respect that it's like I'm not going to fall on my sword for it but as a matter of principle I can't fathom that we would limit the number of auto dealers uh in the city of white girls I can't imagine that we would limit the number of grocery stores they're all legal Let them fight it out in the marketplace under a under a standard most sectors we would actually you would actually import dollars and jobs by being a destination again there has to be a framework at the at the base of that that says here is what's not uh not reasonable not fair not healthy but once you get to that level of what products do you have where are you located Etc um I'm not philosophically I'm not aligned with having a limit now I will also say I will not be here at the second meeting and at our next meeting so uh council member Hughes if you want to see if you can push that back I would probably support an amendment if you had one but I'm not going to be here unless something changes in the scheduling process **[50:50] Councilmember Jones:** Thank you Mr Mayor I'm you know fine I mean I open it up then we're not going to limit anything off sales liquor anywhere any amount why do we limit that today why aren't you proposing to repeal those how about liquor lounges let's have more liquor lounges why not so if you want to play that game I shouldn't say game I'm getting excited if you want to play that play it fairly open up all of our rules bring forward the ordinances and we'll change those also so I mean if you want to do that but at the same time I don't want a liquor store every single corner I don't want a smoke shop every single corner I don't want a tobacco stop I don't want a gas station I don't want an auto dealer every single place I live in look I think they can be reasonably mixed in but I understand that from the aspect but from the fairness if you want to play the fair card then we go back and we change everything that we have a limitation on then I'll talk about it **[51:36] Councilmember Hughes:** yeah I will just note a distinction is you can't buy a car at a gas station you can buy tobacco products at any number of places that aren't a designated tobacco shop that's a distinction if it is about availability but thanks for a better difference **[53:07] Troy Gilchrist (City Attorney):** all right please thank you Miss mayor and this certainly doesn't speak to the underlying policy issue that you're getting at and and the city manager mentioned this but I mean keep in mind the limit is limited to Tobacco product shop which has a very high definition of 90 plus percent of its proceeds coming from the cell so these are these are not you know 80 tobacco shops these are not 70 tobacco shops these are 90 plus tobacco shops so these are kind of the top of the top as far as that that is the product they sell so just you know there's certainly a lot of Downstream flexibility there as far as selling of the product **[54:04] Councilmember Jones:** Source we can have I mean to Mr Jones point is there an ordinance right now that we can only have 20 liquor stores I mean I understand they would need to be zoned correctly which gets to the next Point mayor councilmember here is we do not have a limit on liquor stores In fairness to this exercise I mean we're going through it because it has been determined by this body that our our ordinances need some updating this is as much a housekeeping thing so now is the time to have those opportunities so it's a fair point that we don't do it in anything else yet but we're also combing through all of our ordinances and trying to bring them into parity with what other cities are doing what is now best practice what is now so those are fair points councilmember edberg but I'm open to having those conversations as we comb through and walk through other ordinances that are similar so councilmember Hughes sorry my only Point here is that while I maybe don't want there to be tobacco sold on every single street corner or in the next ordinance cannaboid products available on every single street corner I don't know that I really feel like I should be able to say that when there's you know there were three oil and Spice companies within a block that eventually went out of cert and went out of business um I guess what I'm saying is I don't really know that I'm in favor of using government ordinances to say I don't like something I'd rather just say I don't like it it feels very it feels like it feels like a the wrong hammer **[55:38] Councilmember Jones:** do we have an ordinance Mr City attorney or city manager against XXX stories they're legal the products that they sell I'm I believe we do otherwise we'd probably have one so again Ms Hughes I get it that's on the docket to say let's have let's let that come in and I'm just saying that's you know that's where it is and by the way great point about the Olive's oil stores because man that should have been severely governed I mean especially with the Stillwater one The Still Water and fallible still in downtown White Bear Lake how did we allow that I just look at our console I think all of our downtown businesses sorry Mr Mayor I digress the triple X question **[56:23] Troy Gilchrist (City Attorney):** Mr Mayor and the council that is not a city licensed activity instead it's regulated through zoning which is restrictive zoning but it still has to allow First Amendment activities and so that's usually it's usually addressed through zoning rather than any sort of cap on a number of licenses or anything like that **[57:08] Councilmember Walsh:** ultimate Walsh well since the discussion has gone on this long um we we are a small town board representing our neighbors we absolutely can bring to this table decisions about you know the values of the community and we can absolutely bring it to bear on on some of the issues that councilmember Jones items that are unhealthy has been have been heavily regulated throughout the history of this country like Alcohol Tobacco that that be Behavior modificant modifying that's why they were we can absolutely make decisions like that as a board about what the mix is and the balances in the community so I think it's our job and I think I've no problem you know especially within a limit like 10 because that's that's a lot and we took into account that we have six now there's some room for growth so I don't know I think I think it's absolutely in our purview to to represent the community and the values of the community and what we want to what the vision is for the balance and mix of retail you know olive oil doesn't isn't the same as alcohol or tobacco or a sex shop absolutely not they're they're different they're absolutely different so I think we can react differently representing the city thank you you know this is the first reading any other thoughts or glaring issues that we have with this can't wait for the next council meeting any other thoughts on this a twofer I think okay so with mayor with the I don't know if there is a consensus so staff is not going to make any change to this ordinance and we will bring back the same ordinance for the second reading and for consideration of adoption on August 22nd **[58:40] Lindy Crawford (City Manager):** very good all right item 6B first reading of an ordinance requiring licensing and imposing regulations on the sale of edible cannabinoid products is this you Miss Crawford it is Mayor members of the council I am going to go through a history because our uh our next two items do discuss uh cannabis so on July 1st 2022 it became legal for businesses to sell certain products containing Delta 9 THC in Minnesota the authorizing legislation did not address local regulation on the sale and there was uncertainty still is of the local government's scope of authority and whether interim ordinances authorizing excuse me weather additional local regulations needed consideration so therefore on September 27 2022 the city council approved an interim ordinance authorizing a study and imposing a moratorium on the sale of cannabis products during the 2023 legislative session the Minnesota Legislature enacted a comprehensive comprehensive legislation relating to the legalization of cannabis including but not limited to the establishment of the office of a cannabis management it allows for a local moratorium of full on full cannabis retailers until January 1 2025. this city council did adopt a moratorium on cannabis retailers until January 1 2025 requires local registration adopts reasonable restrictions zoning regulations which is what we'll get into next in the next agenda item limits the number of cannabis businesses based on the population of the community it's one for every 12 500 persons for sulfur wiper lake that is two and to allow for buffers one thousand feet of a school and 500 feet of a daycare Residential Treatment Facility a public park regularly used by miners so once the once ocm is established they will be the regulatory Authority for licensing cannabis businesses and the sale of cannabinoid products our moratorium for the sale of cannabis products is approaching the end of its 12-month term and until the ocm begins licensing the sale of lower lower potency hemp products or edibles there will not be any regulatory Authority overseeing the sale of those products in the city of White Bear Lake therefore a short-term issue requiring City consideration whether or not to establish a licensing system of lower potency hemp Edibles is up for discussion direction of the city council during a work session in June the City attorney and staff prepared an ordinance establishing a licensing structure a temporary licensing structure for the sale of Edibles and regulating the sale of Edibles until again until ocm takes over licensing products so highlights of the ordinance attached in your packet for the tonight's first reading we created applicable definitions eligible and Ill in ineligible license qualifications and application procedure the products must be stored in areas not freely accessible to customers and the General Public an application period for this license is consistent with all of the other business licenses in the city sales are only allowed to persons 21 years or older the ordinance allows for compliance checks relocation or suspension of a license licensing decisions rest with the city council just as tobacco licenses do and the ordinance in front of you terminates and will no longer be effective once edible or low potency hemp products are licensed through ocm so those are the highlights again we're here tonight for a first reading the second reading will we're here for first reading and public hearing the second reading of the ordinance and potential adoption is scheduled for August 22nd thank you **[1:02:28] Mayor Dan B.:** all right this being scheduled for a public hearing it will open up the public hearing for anyone who'd like to speak to this issue and I will note for the record that I do not have any names on the sign up sheet would anyone like to speak to this issue seeing none I will close the public hearing and bring it back to the council councildo we have any questions for Ms Crawford issues initial thoughts councilmember Jones **[1:03:16] Councilmember Jones:** um I came to the realization after I mean we've been talking about this ad nauseam talk about it anymore but we have to I want to trust in my staff and our City attorney because they're the ones that are going to have to carry this out and I'm forcing myself literally to read the small print and dig into this and I can't because it's just you do this you do that you do this you do that and with what the state has or has not done I I just I think at this point where we are today Mr Mayor we need to trust our staff and move forward with what their recommendation is so when that happens that's that's the way I'm feeling about it because it's it's getting too complicated on a lot of levels and the state certainly isn't helping thank you **[1:04:03] Councilmember Edberg:** anyone else ever thought councilmember edberg thank you Mr Mayor Miss Crawford there may be just some Nuance or semantics in the language but um you refer to the state statute as placing limits um on the number and you identified in your slide two per 12 500. I my recollection is that we aren't that does not impose a limit a maximum but we can you speak to that I I because I'm not and I'm not seeing anything in my reading and I just glance through it again I didn't see anything that where we impose a limitation on that number but would you speak to that and clarify what's here and what's in state law **[1:04:49] Lindy Crawford (City Manager):** yes mayor councilman bradberg I should have clarified clarified on my slide that is regarding a cannabis retail business an exclusive so if you will an exclusive cannabis product shop just like an exclusive tobacco product shop what we're talking about in this ordinance is related to the low potency so the products that can be sold at gas stations or liquor stores Etc so the limit of the two based on population is an exclusive cannabis product shop which is not allowed until 2025. we are not proposing a limit on the number of low potency license if you will we are uh we are saying those that are eligible are those businesses that already hold a tobacco or an on or off sale license the liquor license right now and so the if I could clarify Mr Mayor so um the issue that the statute speaks to is not in front of us tonight uh that's a future conversation is that correct **[1:06:09] Lindy Crawford (City Manager):** the so we placed a moratorium on cannabis retailers until January 1 2025. that is not before us that will not be before you because those businesses will be regulated by the state by the office of cannabis management so what will happen is if I'm a I want to open a dispensary as a private business I will contact the State the state will contact the city and check with our zoning regulations and see are they is this Lindy wants to go here can she go here we say yes or no based on a zoning ordinance that we have not discussed yet and then it goes back to the state and that's that's the only local control that we have once we have two we could we could say we have met our quota we are not you know this but that's up to the state **[1:06:54] Councilmember Walsh:** Mr Mayor councilmer Walsh since we're on this topic what's the population of City wiper Lake we got an email not too long ago from the Met Consul that said it was 24 600. so I don't understand why we keep putting two up there under this ordinance it would be one one per 12 500 so until we hit 25 000 it's one I get it we're going to build an apartment building and they'll be they'll be 400 people there but but I did go ahead sorry **[1:07:40] Troy Gilchrist (City Attorney):** Mr Mayor if I might just to clarify yeah so what you're talking about as far as limits and how you count and and all that those are definitely policy decisions that will be coming before this Council before the the moratorium you adopted expires but those decisions are not before you tonight well I understand I understand but the slide says too and it's it's starting to annoy me because we've been using two when it should be one I get it it's really close but as one until it's two that's all so I just wanted to make it clear that yes I know yeah I know we're not talking about that tonight but it's up there so I think I can point it out **[1:08:26] Mayor Dan B.:** so as long as you brought that up maybe our City attorney if you can maybe it's not clarified what is the official source that we go to to look to define the population is it the U.S census what are we looking at to establish that number because I'm with councilmember Walsh we're sub 25 000. that is fact that is reality as it stands today and I don't have the language up if if it's not so we always look of course to the language of the statute and sometimes it says to the decennial senses sometimes it says to the most recent demographer's estimate uh we have you know potentially both if it doesn't indicate I guess I would be inclined to look at demographer's estimate but the rules May flush that out yeah once they're made I'm sorry that's my guess I think the law is silent I look for that so I'm guessing the ocm the office of Campus Management will probably probably get rules so we'll wait for that we it might it might in fact might affect me too by the time they're done but at the moment according to the law to the language it should be one **[1:09:11] Lindy Crawford (City Manager):** mayor it's not a big deal but it just remember Walsh the reason we have been saying too is everything that we have researched to date including um mine the city clerk City attorney League of Minnesota cities has been saying if you're ever over to a 12 500 that triggers that second one as the City attorney said it will be flushed out prior to 2025 but is not what we are talking about tonight well yeah no that's fair I mean In fairness without getting too deep in the weeds that's why we passed the moratorium because there's a whole lot of unanswered questions and we'll just chalk this up to yet another thing that the legislature didn't clarify and left local government and businesses and everyone else just kind of sitting here scratching our head and oh by the by it's it's legal to you know possess and smoke this stuff as of like last week so thanks for that we appreciate that that's great we'll just figure it out for the next year and a half um okay any other thoughts on item 6B the first reading of an ordinance requiring license imposing regulations on the sale of edible cannabinoid products we will take this up again at the next council meeting item seven we have nothing scheduled item 8A first reading of an ordinance amending zoning regulations regarding tobacco and cannabis uses this is Mr Lindahl **[1:09:56] Jason Lindahl (Community Development):** yesterday members of the city council as you uh mentioned um were that I'm the next item on your agenda is related to the last two in that IT addresses um zoning a zoning ordinance text Amendment related to um uh tobacco shops and um and uh cannabis uh retailers so uh just a quick way of background again this item was initiated by staff after direction from the city council to take this item up it does propose to create two new use uses in the zoning code the first one being tobacco product shops the second being cannabis retailers and those items are defined in the ordinance that's in your packet it proposes to assign them or these two uses to the B4 General business district the uh Planning Commission did hold the required public hearing for zoning ordinance Texas amendments back at their meeting uh on July 31st that item was noticed properly through the paper following the standard procedure and um to date either before the planning commissioning or up to date staff has not received any comments about the proposed ordinance that took before you tonight um with the with the uh items before you deny both the Planning Commission and staff are recommending approval **[1:10:42] Jason Lindahl (Community Development):** so um just by way of a reminder here um there are six criteria that staff analyzes to when considering any zoning ordinance text Amendment um there's a detailed analysis of these six findings within your staff report and I'm happy to go over any of those in more detail if you like the takeaway I would offer the council is that the analysis looking at the comprehensive plan for guidance on new commercial uses or taking a look at compatibility with present and future land uses cost staff to look through our standards and consider each of the individual commercial zoning districts for where these uses should be located part of that analysis included looking at where our current tobacco shops were are located throughout the community and um looking at analyzing the six the current ones we have there really is and the fact in the context that those uses located in the community without any zoning parameters standards guidelines the private Market decided where these were going to go and so looking at that from a perspective of did the market guide these uses to any particular zoning District we did not find that they are located basically throughout the be three to be five zoning districts fairly uniformly but looking at the guidance and definitions for the zoning the guidance in the comp plan and of the land uses and the and the descriptions of the purposes intent statements that go along with each zoning District staff came to the conclusion that the B4 District was the most appropriate District to locate them so um the proposed standards again would create those two new use types or use definitions product uh tobacco product shops and cannabis retailers assign them to the B4 General business district um subject to the same zoning standards for height setbacks parking requirements for any other Commercial Business that would be in the B4 District so they're treated just like any other use in that district from a performance standards development standards perspective and then it would also apply the state recommended buffers in the state statute that the city manager just talked about a few in the last two items and that would be applying a thousand foot buffer from schools and a 500 foot buffer from daycares residential treatment facilities and uh public park facilities regularly used by miners so on this same slide to the right of it you see a copy of the city's zoning maps with blue uh buffers around the uses that are included in that uh in those buffer definitions that I just spoke about so that then guides us as to what properties are left over in the community that could be eligible for a tobacco product shop or a cannabis retailer um taking a look at that how that impacts kind of current conditions in uh throughout the community again we have the six existing tobacco product shops and because none of them are located in the B4 district and outside of the buffers they would all be considered legal non-conforming they existed legally before the the proposed uses would be put into place and so they are what's commonly referred to as grandfathered and they're allowed to continue under State Statute to be maintained repaired even replaced um they just aren't allowed to expand in a situation where they would um cease operations for more than a year then their grandfathering status can be go away okay it's also important to note that their grandfathering status can be transferred to another owner so it doesn't stay with that owner they have the ability to sell the business to another party and that continues in perpetuity okay they would remain subject to licensing requirements that we were just speaking about before um the low potency hemp product sales would become permitted subject to the new zoning laws that or standards that we're considering before you tonight and as uh the city manager offered in the last two items full cannabis businesses or and retailers would remain prohibited under the moratorium that the city has in place until January of 25. **[1:18:22] Jason Lindahl (Community Development):** so as I mentioned the Planning Commission held the public hearing related to this item at their meeting last week and raised I think some good questions and had some good discussions about the zoning aspects of this and so one of the questions that was brought up by the Planning Commission is does the City Sports Center or the ice arena qualify under what the statute defines as a park and in looking over the definition that's in State Statute and in consultation with the city attorney it does qualify because it's a city-owned facility that is regularly used by miners so the map that's on this screen included in your packet originally did not include the sports center which you see Mark I hope you can kind of see in the upper kind of mid mid point on the left-hand side of the screen there's a fairly large red arrow that indicates the location of the sports center and so we've added that as a another buffer and that does exclude some of the commercial category in the B4 that was originally shown on the map to be included at the Planning Commission level generally you can think about that area if you can think about it in your mind as the Birch Lake shopping center area okay um the second question uh the the that the plan commission rate Rave was they wanted to just generally reaffirm the zoning districts that we were proposing to place these uses in and again that's the B4 as we've been talking about tonight um they also um had concerns about um um the non the non-conforming tobacco shops and whether that they could be allowed to continue so again as we've talked about they are grandfathered in subject and always subject to State Law related to grandfathered uses and again could be repaired maintained even replaced just couldn't continue after a year um thirdly they look or excuse me fourth uh they looked at can the existing Tobacco Shop sell cannabis and or low potency hemp products and so we did go back and look at this and have further discussion between staff and the City attorney and so what we have as an answer for you before that tonight is under the original draft ordinance that went to the Planning Commission um the answer would be no that original ordinance only had two uses defined in it Tobacco product shop and cannabis businesses and so it treated all cannabis businesses whether they were selling full-blown uh cannabis products or low potency products the same okay so but as an alternative staff has also included in your packet a second draft ordinance that would add a third use and separate the Cannabis retailers full-blown cannabis retailers from low potency or edible cannabis types of retailers and so that staff is looking for happy to answer questions have a discussion looking for feedback on that difference oh we'll just add to Linda in your packet the option A if you will or the first the original ordinance is dated 727 23 and immediately after that the second ordinance is dated I believe eight one so that is up in the header that's where you're going to find the difference **[1:19:53] Mayor Dan B.:** Mr Lindahl I'm not sure I totally followed that so can you just flesh out what their practical distinction is between the two drafts Troy would you let our City attorney would you like to take that I'd be happy to jump in Mr Mayor and Council I think **[1:20:40] Troy Gilchrist (City Attorney):** it really boils down to originally lumped all THC products into cannabis businesses and treated them the same and applied the I'm going to call them setbacks the setbacks that are left when you look at that that's really limiting uh on on the full scope including the edibles uh and so the second draft the option b breaks out the Edibles and allows edible businesses with any within any commercial District within the city it keeps cannabis businesses the kind of the full-blown cannabis uh to the restrictions the setback restrictions on that so it really that's that's the the primary distinction it allows the edible cannabinoids to be really in in any commercial and then with the licensing ordinance you just looked at not any but does the commercial districts it allows anyone that has a tobacco or liquor license then to sell regardless of whether they're in the B4 or the other commercial District so it it treats them more flexibly flexible I'm sorry I didn't say that right but there's certainly more flexibility being given to the edible cannabinoid products under under the option b okay so just so I have that clear in my mind the first draft which is more restrictive would only allow the low potency Edibles to be sold at a place that had a full cannabis license is that is that a true statement so far **[1:22:13] Troy Gilchrist (City Attorney):** it actually treats them the same as a full-blown cannabis shop so right so that you couldn't you right you right so you would need a you'd need to have a can of full cannabis license in order to sell a cannabinoid not necessarily okay it just it lumps them together from a zoning perspective so whether you're selling gummies or the full-blown cannabis you're being lumped under the same heading and are restricted to B4 and subject to the setbacks under option b cannabinoid the Edibles are broken out so we still have the B4 and setback restrictions on cannabis businesses minus the Edibles the Edibles are are carved out and allowed to occur with the city license for the next year and a half in any of the commercial districts so then without the setbacks **[1:23:00] Mayor Dan B.:** so then the policy question for the board is do we care or do we have a public policy interest in being more liberal if you will in terms of where cannabinoids are sold or do we want to make them as restrictive as as candidates council member Jones **[1:23:00] Councilmember Jones:** so I I don't have an answer that I have a question for staff on the two versions really what's the easiest one to enforce what's easiest for staff to control and force **[1:23:47] Lindy Crawford (City Manager):** mayor councilmember Jones I would say option b you have over the last year or however many months it's been the city manager's office has been working with tobacco product shops who have been most have been in compliance and have been asking when can I sell this I'll be completely honest with you it wasn't our in wasn't my intention to bring you an ordinance that would prohibit low potency hemp products to only be sold in a B4 zoning District I relate it to 3-2 beer who would you know could technically I mean if they had the proper license be sold in a quick trip like they are now some of them versus an exclusive store so it's like Quick Trip selling cigarettes versus a tobacco shop it wasn't my intention that is where we started and Planning Commission caught that so we re-evaluated and that one point in the 8123 draft is under article two subdivision three edible cannavoid business is that the call out that kind of gives that that flexibility within the zoning yeah **[1:24:32] Troy Gilchrist (City Attorney):** so Mr Mayor the definition of right so edible cannabinoid business is broken out as an independent use and then if you scroll down under um yes subdivision three then it calls edible cannibal cannabinoid businesses as being a permitted use within any commercial district and it also there's no difference between the two and it does not subject them to the setbacks that apply to Canada Scrolls and nothing happens so I turned the page uh and and Mr Mayor if if I might I you know when we're talking about the the Cannabis businesses in here I mean this is this is definitely a forward-looking ordinance because you know as as was mentioned these can't happen right now I'm convinced there's going to be a gap between the end of your moratorium and when there's licensing of of these things uh and and even the zoning guidance and that sort of thing I I just I I'm becoming more and more skeptical as time moves on that things are going to be ready to go and so this is anticipatory in the sense that we're trying to create some some understanding of where these can go but fully understanding that when the state comes out with its rules and guidance this is going to come back before you so when it comes to the cannibal cannabis businesses and the zoning of this you will see more of this down the line but this is attempting to at least create a baseline from which to work on moving forward so thank you thank you **[1:25:18] Councilmember Walsh:** so Mr Mayor just on that topic because that's my question when when this when the I gotta get I got to say this right uh if if we go with do this this ability to choose between no and yes up there on the thing is that going to continue after the state you know that takes over sort of control of the the edible piece you know this is a temporary well I mean this isn't this is zoning this is not temporary but our temporary ability to sort of um I guess maybe I've answered my own question **[1:26:03] Troy Gilchrist (City Attorney):** well no because that's this is more than zoning when you say you can an allowable use within a tobacco license or an off sale that's a that's a that's a little bit more than zoning isn't it my question is is are we going to lose control of that decision anyway later and so is it smart that's why my decision making is like if I can say no forever and maybe I'd say no forever if I can say no for only 18 months and then the state takes over and the liquor stores and tobacco shops are going to be able to sell these these these these low low potency Edibles then I'm not I'm not interested in having sort of a temporary thing there that's my question if I if that was clear so Mr Mayor and Council to the so this is really I mean it's temporary in the sense that it it we will have to amend it I'm sure once the state gets into this but this isn't taking away when the state kicks in you still have zoning Authority so unlike the licensing of Edibles you will still every indication is you will still have zoning authority over these but is it a zoning question to say you can't sell edibles well that's not a zoning question the way I read that you know allowing potent low potency hem products with tobacco or on sale a lot liquor licenses that's sort of a if you have a tobacco license or a on sale liquor license officer liquor license you can sell Edibles that's not zoning well I think the zoning question is you have to have both you have to both have your tobacco license and be within wherever we zone for where it's allowed is that correct yeah so Mr Mary what with that provided language it is really meant to line up with the licensing ordinance that's going through at the same time so we want to create an expectation that you could have an edible business somewhere it's permitted anywhere but then we have this licensing saying but it's limited so this is really trying to create a level and how we treat that now does that language perhaps come out when we adopt a full-blown zoning ordinance on this maybe **[1:28:21] Councilmember Edberg:** thank you Mr Mayor I have two questions a comment and a question so I'm inclined to support the alternative B language to deal with the low potency um I think that makes sense so I'll just leave that there um the question that I have is I'm looking at the map it's really well done and I appreciate the the thought and coloration that went into it I do find okay my old eyes are having trouble distinguishing between which shade of maroon magenta or something else that might be called red and I'm having a little trouble in the smaller detail picturing out exactly which is which as I look at it the recommendation for the B4 does not clearly does not include the central business district um where I think we have one entity that is likely to want to I'm trying to picture why we don't have the the central business district identified my reading of the map is that it it does not have any of the buffered areas but I could be misreading and so it's like why is that one not uh why is that one excluded from the from the options **[1:29:40] Councilmember Hughes:** I have a quick ask on that and it actually goes to your question can you use your mic I just have a quick ask that I think goes to that is the library a public park under the same definition of the Sports Center why not a public library does not meet the state's definition it's not a park okay but it is primarily used by I mean it is it is used by an entertainly an entity regularly used by minors and if it's not included on there can we include it Please Mr Gilchrist **[1:31:15] Troy Gilchrist (City Attorney):** okay so uh the public part Park aspect of this is not entirely clear a local government local unit of government May prohibit the operation of a cannabis business within one thousand feet of a school 500 feet of a daycare Residential Treatment Facility or an attraction with a pup within a public park that is regularly used by minors including playgrounds or athletic fields so the definitions that you see in this ordinance I came up with them to try to capture that now if the rules come out and provide further clarify clarification on what those definitions ought to be then we'll have to change them but for now this is the best attempt to fill in some blanks here I I don't think a library would fairly fall in unless it's attached to a school or something like that so having established that I think councilmember Edberg's question is the downtown district and I think Mr Lindahl you had an answer for him on that mayor members of the council if I understand your question is why did why did why doesn't staff recommendation include the the downtown central business district essentially so excuse me so as I mentioned what we did is we looked through the comprehensive plan for guidance and then we looked at the definitions of of of of how the The Zone aren't the zoning districts are supposed to work and the uses that they're supposed to include okay and so given the information that was in there we focused in on the B4 District um and that that answer that or that recommendation that we're providing you is in the co is in the context of the full-blown hemp products and low potency products being together in the recommendation or excuse me in the option b ordinance low potency products are separated out as a City attorney has has uh talked about and so you you could a business that has a tobacco ice current tobacco license or an offsell or an on-sale liquor license regardless of their zoning they need to be in a commercial Zone but otherwise the B4 restriction doesn't apply to the low potency products and would therefore not apply to the downtown business should they come in and ask for to sell low potency products got it I'm so it's the other part of that quadrant that is not addressed why would we um what is the rationale for not permitting a full-blown cannabis product in the downtown business district where we have all kinds of other businesses and at least as I look at the map it doesn't fall into any of the buffer areas that would be excluded by Statute so it's being excluded by our policy what's the what's the policy reason for that **[1:33:31] Jason Lindahl (Community Development):** mayor members of the council the the Rec the process that staff went through to look at this and the recommendation that we brought forward to you again based on the analysis of the comp plan and the zones looks at the the looked at the general business district as as the district that provides for regional related uses on higher capacity roads and seeing as these that staff looked at these proposed uses is there before you tonight as not just serving a local market but a broader Regional maybe you know East Metro Market and put and and chose to and with that rationale is recommending the B4 District okay I don't find that a very plausible kind of explanation but that's fine it's like we handle umpteen thousand people for Market Fest we handle a whole bunch of folks and high-level traffic in our downtown area we actually want that we we have so much of it that we had three spice oil and and you know olive oil companies all right so I'm not personally that persuasion doesn't work on me I'm there's gotta if there's a better reason bring it forth but I don't find that to be a very compelling analysis **[1:35:04] Jason Lindahl (Community Development):** mayor members of the council if I would just add one more thing that I've neglected to mention is we also looked at these similar and and we certainly staff is open to feedback about this but we had originally um thought we had heard a perspective from the council that you were interested in looking at regulating these similarly to how we regulate um liquor stores or the sale of liquor and so if you look at the zoning code the zoning code does not allow off sale liquor establishments in downtown currently mayor members of the council there is one that predates the code there's two of them got it so they would they would be grandfathered in the liquor store is grandfathered in as a legal non-conforming use and they operate to this day similar to what staff would is suggesting that um the proposed tobacco stores could could do here you just want to come down here and Buy before you come in okay well this being a first reading are there any other comments proposed amendments all right I'm going to interrupt you **[1:37:39] Councilmember Hughes:** my only comment uh is going to go back to my other one I find this is a really useful way to say to companies or to say I I like limit I like open license but limited sales points I guess to bring my entire discussion of the evening to a close I I don't like limiting where I don't like limiting how much of something could be done but I do I do want to be able to say but you can't do it here so that's it so is that all by way of saying you you support the B4 zoning structure that was laid out in the proposed ordinance yes **[1:38:25] Mayor Dan B.:** councilmember Edberg thank you Mr Mayor so um I've noted that I'm are we going to act on this at our next council meeting or because this is a topic that I a voice in and can we reschedule I I will not be here in two weeks I'll defer to City staff I'm sure there's some timing requirements but I'm I don't want to I don't want to stop any council member who just doesn't happen to be available from weighing in on the the policy decision so Miss Crawford what what options or Mr Lindahl mayor members of the city council so there isn't a 60-day application process that we this that should concern the council in this case because this is a staff initiated item um so there isn't an applicant waiting on this on this the only other thing to consider would be the existing moratorium um that would would expired at the end of September **[1:39:13] Lindy Crawford (City Manager):** mayor if I may um you can push it the next meeting after August 22nd is September 12th that's the last time that we would want to push this to because that moratorium does expire September 27th well and then **[1:39:59] Councilmember Walsh:** Mr Mayor councilmember Walsh well I I'm actually in favor of pushing it because I think this is a really important question that you raise and I'm not I'm not exactly sure where we should come down I I think it's a good discussion we should have I mean maybe this the central business district should be the place for these types of locations um you know if you think about if you think about you know that's our that's where the businesses are that's um I'm not articulating this very well but if you think about different parts of our city that are I shouldn't say more buffered by neighborhoods or certainly a neighborhood in downtown White Bear Lake right between the lake and the city um but I guess I see it I I really have got me thinking I guess on this discussion of the B4 should it just be exclusively B4 or should we flip it and make it exclusively something else so I think it merits further discussion which means let's let's make sure you're here I guess that's what I'm I'm articulating well I think moving it to September quite frankly now that I'm fully wrapping my head around this gives members of the community to do an opportunity to engage with us it's their downtown what what are they looking for so that extra time uh is only helpful I've got no problem with that I don't think we need any official action we're just going to not calendar it and we'll put it on the the first meeting in September agenda anybody have any objection to that anybody that's dying to move forward in two weeks okay so we will have the second reading and really take this issue up at the first council meeting in September **[1:40:46] Troy Gilchrist (City Attorney):** Mr Gilchrist just for clarity uh we're moving forward with option b then do we need to make a decision on that right now or can we move forward I would recommend that you do okay um councilmember Jones I'll just start off I support option b going back to what city manager amended so my only issue on that is because we're we're talking about having a conversation expanding expanding it from B4 to possibly B5 or other areas to me that changes the analysis on whether or not we want to be a little more expansive with the low potency so I don't know if I'm if I can if I can weigh in and say well I'd be I'd be in favor of option b if it was B4 with everything I've got no problem with option b that makes sense they're two different things but if we're going to expand the Cannabis products which then the low potency will piggyback off of then that's that's that makes more of a compelling argument for option A if that makes any sense to anybody at all so maybe Mr Gilchrist can you clarify why can't we just move forward with option A and option b and then really take up that in substance at the second reading so Mr Mayor yeah I apologize and Council I apologize I I just it's cleaner frankly to move forward with one uh and the reason you have two before you is is just because frankly it was my recommendation since a was the one that was that went through the hearing uh that you should have that before you uh and and B does make significant changes so I thought it'd be best to have both before you now if if the council is of a consensus to move both forward uh I'm not saying you can't do that you certainly can it's just we just we'd have to obviously keep track of ones a ones B why we're moving them forward both of them you can do it if that's the council's pleasure okay is anyone else on the council understanding where I'm coming from that one kind of begets the other if we're talking about expanding the zoning in general then that changes whether option A or option b **[1:42:37] Councilmember Edberg:** councilmember edberg yeah thank you Mr Mayor so of the two issues that we're wrestling with the option b is of Greater importance to me than than the conversation about whether it's B4 and or B5 how we just Define that so I I think it makes more sense to regulate the low potency differently than what is proposed under the uh the current version a so that's why I but your argument and this whole conversation just highlights how many cross-cutting and yeah these are not simple straightforward conversations and Maps help but they are perfect either they don't clarify everything so I think there's a whole lot of legitimate hmm how do we think about this and is there a shared way that we think about it so I want to acknowledge that this is not a straightforward A and B so then I would suggest that unless there's a legal reason not to move forward with the second reading and having option A and B on the table then we do just that and we'll take up the issue or city clerk please **[1:43:23] Cali (City Clerk):** um Mr Mayor and members of the council just to provide more clarity on what we're talking about between the difference of option A and option b and just to keep it in simple terms if a bar or restaurant comes to us and says that they would be interested in providing an offering of a THC Seltzer option A because it is Broad and more restrictive when not allow I think most of our bars and restaurants from doing so so option b is opening it up for more flexibility so that because we're not just talking about Edibles we're talking about beverages option A would be more restrictive and would prevent any of our liquor establishments from selling these products option b provides more flexibility on where these lower potency Edibles and beverages can be sold I appreciate that clarification I think I do understand that I'm just not sold yet from a public policy standpoint whether that's where we want to go maybe we do I just want to have the conversation more extensively and flesh it out so I appreciate that distinction that's helpful so anybody objective moving forward with option A and B and we'll take this up uh in a more substantive fashion at the second reading in September all right in the library actually sell Edibles in the future but you can check them out if you have a valid library card all right item 8B review of Burger Bar liquor license violations I Believe Miss longandyke you're taking this nope Miss Crawford **[1:46:28] Lindy Crawford (City Manager):** um mayor members of the council so the police department conducts alcohol compliance checks every year and all of our licenses establishments the Burger Bar did fail to compliance checks one on August 18 2022 and June 21st 2023 due to serving alcoholic beverages to underage buyers the second failed compliance check also involved underage and underage employee serving the alcohol to an underage buyer per Minnesota state statutes it is illegal for any person to sell alcoholic beverages to a person under the age of 21 years of age and no person under 18 may serve or sell intoxicating liquor so the business was issued to administrative citations for the failed compliance checks both of which have been paid and the two criminal cases are complete and closed it has been the city council's practice to review the establishment's business license when there are two failed compliance checks within a 12-month period to consider what if any action should be taken against the license a letter was mailed to the Burger Bar informing them of the possible action against the light their license and inviting them the opportunity to speak to the city council they I believe they are here tonight so the city council's Authority ranges from no action against the liquor license suspension of the license for specified a number of days determined by the city council or revocation of their liquor license passed just to let you know past Council practice in response to two failed compliance checks involved a temporary suspension of an established establishment's license for um for a number of time that was back in 2013 the city council then did suspend lifetimes license for seven days should you wish to do that staff is not making a recommendation to you on one one way or the other but we did prepare a resolution for consideration if you do wish to take any action suspension um so there is a resolution in your packet if you wish to do that so as I said the owners are here tonight they did also meet with the city clerk previously or last week to share their corrective course of action and prevention for both establishments so they also they also own ingredients Cafe and that information is outlined in your attached packet they have been as I said they have paid their citations they have met with staff and they have begun corrective actions so they're here if you want to hear from them or if you want to discuss this at the council level and the city clerk and I can stand for questions I think before the council jumps in if you're here Mr Pratt if you want to step forward if you want to speak to this issue please and just for the record state your name and address and uh **[1:49:30] Lynn Pratt (Owner):** well my name is Lynn Pratt I live at 301 Wildwood Avenue in Birchwood Minnesota my name is Ben Pratt and I live at 507 Salem Court Mahtomedi Minnesota um if I could just take a minute and just review what it is I put in our pack package and what steps we have taken Ben and I um are Partners in the restaurants as mentioned 18 years at ingredients and um five years at Burger Bar actually Burger Bar is a building that you guys own the city owns and we undertook the project to renew it and make it a burger establishment um we completely understand the seriousness of the matter and we wish to demonstrate the steps that we've undertaken to remedy it closed included five components that are new updated 2023 burger bars serving alcohol policy is um it has come to our attention should come to your attention that after 18 years of doing this at ingredients in five years at the Burger Bar we understand once again um the seriousness of this we have employed literally hundreds of Staff in all these years and in many cases serve beverages with the meals you know and with all the people coming and going making certain that they all absolutely know the policies something now that we have formally taken steps to do here in attendance is Casey Morton who works for me at Pratt homes and I'm proud to say after 50 years of being here in the White Bear Lake Area as a home builder Casey is now working for me as an administrator and she comes with beverage serving and actually alcoholic beverage sales before she came to work for me for Brett homes she has agreed to become our serving alcohol enforcement administrator okay so bottom line anybody that comes to work at ingredients or Burger Bar is going to have to meet with our enforcement administrator reviewing with them formally you know the law and the policies and how serious this is in addition to this I I know I don't want to go on and on here but we did all of us take formal training on Saturday three hours with a with a with a firm Robert poplum who has worked in the capacity of a trainer for serving alcohol not only here in the state of Minnesota but nationally he understands you know what goes on when someone comes in to an establishment and wants to have a alcoholic beverage the kind of license that they show you what is a a fake license how to identify both sides of the card and it goes on and on and on but all of that is our job to do you know we have to formally train our staff to understand what this is and that was a very productive three hours I feel informed myself to a higher degree than I've ever been and I know you've been talking about cannabis here too and I don't want to get off on a tangent here but we did touch on that you know I don't want to get off on a tangent but at some point when you make your you know the ordinances and so on we're going to have to somehow understand what that is when someone is beyond what I'll call serving limits each of our employees has now assigned um our good Table Restaurant Group alcohol service policy it's formally been done and it's now in our policy manual so the explanation of what all this is has been done and I I appreciate um each each person that it was in attendance actually now has a certificate as well that they can take with them no matter where they go we are asking I guess just to have us this has not been our practice and I and I understand that it um I guess I'm asking for us to give us a chance to prove it you know first step is taken and it'll be ongoing when someone new comes Ben do you have anything else to add **[1:50:45] Ben Pratt (Owner):** yeah um just in regards to both restaurants both of them close at eight o'clock at night um I mean we're heavily food focused ingredients is a little different than Burger Bar where Burger Bar represents about 95 of our sales is straight food so it's not like it's uh if anybody's ever been in there but it's not like a bar you know it's just beer and we have some wine and people don't necessarily come and come in there just like to drink or whatever you know they have a beer with their burger and that was the intent the design uh of the place you know and in regards to the failed compliance uh the person checking the ID did ask for an ID but didn't do the proper calculation of the birth date so it's not like we have this philosophy there like you know let's you know shell out the beers and whatever and get those sales out that's not has never been the intention nor have I ever said that to anybody and um I'm a food guy you know I 95 of my concern is on food safety and the process of making a plate of food for folks and keeping track of that and keeping it healthy and safe and clean and you know after going through the training on Saturday it you know kind of really opened my eyes to the different legalities of all this and uh yeah it's you know somewhat scary you know and uh so that's kind of what I have to say well [Music] [Music] **[1:51:34] Lynn Pratt (Owner):** so not leaving it up just a chance but to actually formally established a staff person that's kind of monitoring new hires sure and after going through the training one final note Glenn can you yeah can you step up one final note after going through the training and I mentioned I mentioned this and thank you for meeting with us um it wouldn't hurt I think at some point along the line is to have formal training for the city any alcoholic beverage service business bars especially now we started going into cannabis to actually provide a place where people can come anybody serving alcohol businesses and or cannabis actually have a kind of a one one time a year kind of a review of the law and whether that works or not I know we're going to do it internally but it would be nice to share that expense and actually include that in our general White Bear Lake Area they have a consistent enforcement so anyway thank you thank you appreciate that huh all right um to me the the conclusion on this is pretty simple and I'll get to that in a second so first off I I have every confidence in the world that you're taking this seriously we looked through all the literature that you provided there's clearly training you've appointed staff um I don't think this is anything where you're sweeping under the rug no the problem I have is balancing that with the fact that there are many many other bars that did that did pass the compliance they didn't they didn't fail twice in a row and if we don't enforce the law it has no teeth so I'll just say an absolute revocation I don't think is at all appropriate I think that would be too extreme and it would deviate from our past practice I also think no action at all would be insufficient and would deviate from our past practice the good news is this has only happened one other time and it was almost a decade ago or it was about a decade ago so that's good we don't have a significant problem and by your own admission you're you're not heavily reliant on beer sales you're primarily selling burgers and I think you know noted 95 percent versus five percent the economics to me have less of a bearing but that's that's at least a factor so having said all that I think it's a fair a a punishment if you will because there were in fact two two compliance failures and we're talking about serving minors uh serving underage individuals alcohol I think a seven day suspension is is reasonable and appropriate I don't think it's going to be you know anything that's going to put you under but it it I think it'll Hammer home the message and it'll make it clear to every other bar that we do take this seriously so we have a resolution before the council that that sets forth a seven day seven day period revocation of the liquor license I think that's reasonable I think it's appropriate I think that's as far as we need to go and I would that that's where I Stan and I would recommend that the council passed that resolution and with that I will open up the council for your thoughts **[2:00:50] Councilmember Edberg:** councilmember edberg thank you Mr Mayor so there are two establishments that are and I believe that they're the license covers both establishments or do they have individuals so the the suggestion is seven day suspension for the burger bar but not affecting ingredients correct because there was no violations I'm inclined to support that **[2:01:36] Councilmember Jones:** councilmember Jones so while I I last time this happened I was on the council I wanted more from Lifetime because lifetime didn't do any of what you did zero nothing no addressing just took up and they took their suspension and they didn't give to you know what to either way and while I appreciate that what bothers me the most is is I get the first the one the underage to the underage sorry you don't get a free pass on that without Institute no the person's underage selling to an underage that one bothers me within the tool and and we do have Mr Pratt Mr Pratt I really appreciate this I do but I'm with the mayor is that we have other problems other folks that a did it right and B need to keep doing it right um but I yeah I'm good with the seven day anyone else on the council ever thought on this if not I'd entertain a motion to approve the resolution we had before us which would impose a seven-day revocation of the liquor license suspension and the suspension at Burger Bar it's only for Burger Bar correct because they're two separate licenses and just for clarification that would that would run August 20th through August 26th 2023. I'll make a motion I have a motion do I have a second second I have a motion a second any further discussion **[2:03:07] Councilmember Hughes:** councilmember Hughes I just have one clarification question this was from um I just have one clarification quick because you said these were um in a row didn't we have a compliance check in like march-ish and were they not on that mayor councilmember Hughes it is I assume they were it is 12 consecutive months sure just wanted to just wanted that so in theory they passed the one but not those other two and I you know bra but I I support the resolution I we have laws and we have consequences and and it's hard to have one without the other any further discussion on this seeing the none all those in favor of adopting the resolution say aye aye any opposed the motion carries the resolution adopted in seven days and back in business it's all good all right thank you 95 of the business I was referring to the deer business I don't know if it needs clarification to them item nine discussion we have nothing scheduled item 10 Communications from the city manager Mr Crawford **[2:04:10] Lindy Crawford (City Manager):** mayor members of the council a few things so as most of you know we had the Lakewood Hills all ability playground ribbon cutting last week it was wonderful it was so hot but it was a wonderful turnout um Public Safety and Public Works provided popsicles in the park and again just thank you to the Lions Club for making that playground a reality and or Public Works staff for playing a big part in executing that so significant contributions came from the Lions Club International and game time and ta shivsky and Sun so I just wanted to again call that out so thank you for attending those that did and an announcement administrative Captain Dale Hager was promoted to the chief of police he will assume that role on August 28th after chief Swanson's last day is August 25th a couple of upcoming events Fridays with firefighters the last one for this summer is Thursday August 18th from 10 to noon at the saw fire station and we have a car seat Clinic with Regents Hospital Tuesday August 22nd from 4 to 7 p.m at the South Fire Station registration is required for that one and that is on the screen so that's what I have tonight thank you questions for Miss Crawford seeing none I'd entertain a motion to adjourn all those in favor say aye aye or adjourning someone was me what all of us so I was like yeah I like hearing that stuff