This transcript appears to be from a **Planning Commission** meeting. Based on the context provided and the phonetic clues in the text, I have identified the speakers as follows: * **John Hinzman:** Community Development Director (consistently referred to as "John" and presenting all items). * **Chair:** The presiding officer (referred to as "Mr. Chairman"). Note: While Melanie Peters is listed as Chair, the transcript explicitly uses "Mr. Chairman," suggesting a male member was acting as Chair for this session. * **Marcy Jorgensen & Tim Bader:** Residents at 122 18th Street West. * **Michael Takas:** (Phonetically "Taples") Site development consultant/Engineer for KFC. * **Phil Latiberry:** (Phonetically "Adamari") Representative for Argonaut Minnesota Ventures/KFC. * **Commissioners:** Tykan, Maskey, Romans, Hallberg, and Leifeld (transcribed phonetically as "Lebron"). *** [0:02] John Hinzman: there we go first time we have your consideration tonight is a variance request pertaining to 7070's first street which is shown on the picture here the variance that we're looking for is a variance to the maximum size of accessory structures within the r2 district you can have without a garage two structures up to one thousand square feet in the situation here you have got a parcel which consists of four lots which has a home which was built in 1917 which is non-historic and you have this structure here which from the aerial view doesn't look like much but is a very historic structure in our town and within your packet had information in there that the building dates to 1859 as star iron works has a [0:50] John Hinzman: lot of history to it and is within our historic register so this building here is an accessory building to the home and this building itself is certainly over one thousand square feet which would be prohibitive to constructing any further buildings mr hazelton seeks to try to build another building here which would be 25 by 45 which or 25 by 40 which would be 1 000 square feet which would really serve as the garage for the home itself so that's what we're looking at here tonight is whether this variance here meets the qualifications for approval because of the historic nature of the building itself we did have the hpc the heritage preservation commission review this as well they recommended approval of the ability to construct [1:36] John Hinzman: another building on the site finding that the separation physically between the star ironworks building and the home was far enough away that it wouldn't have a detrimental effect upon it so this is the star ironworks building as we're looking at it now the brick building itself mr hazelton has used this in the past for his home occupation out the back of the building you could see some of the structures here mr hazelton would be removing some of these structures here once the new garage is built the new garage would look something like this existing home on the south or down at the bottom here a new garage built here so that is what's being proposed under this proposal here under the definitions for variances variances are deviations from strict [2:23] John Hinzman: compliance with the city code now the planning commission serves as a recommend recommending body to the board of adjustments it appeals which in this case is the city council they we can issue a variance upon determination of findings of fact which are included within our code and also within the staff report here so when we take a look at the different criteria i've detailed those or adjusted as detailed those within the staff report things that we look at is the physical surroundings of the property is there a practical difficulty that results in this situation because you have a property that is that is historic but is quite distant from the uh the main property to be used practically as a garage we we find that [3:09] John Hinzman: as an unusual separate situation there's about a 75-foot separation between these structures so it really is is more difficult to use the star ironworks building practically as a garage for the property it's not based upon exclusively upon a desire to increase the value of the property itself it has a unique situation because of this historic nature in the property combined with it's a large parcel to begin with we take a look at what sort of what sort of precedence that we may be setting if we were to grant this variance on other properties we believe in this situation that there is a unique situation with the large property the historic building on it that would differentiate this from other [3:54] John Hinzman: properties so in essence we are recommending approval of the variants per the rationale within your staff report so mr hazelton is here tonight if you have any questions for him and i can stand for questions as well thank you [4:13] Chair: okay thanks john all right commissioners open up for comments or questions [4:18] Commissioner Tykan: yep commissioner taken mr chair uh john it says the structure's immediately north of storm building that's those two metal structures they said they're not going to go away until after the garage is built [4:30] John Hinzman: that is correct yeah the two structures located to the north uh would be going away i'm just going to bring this over i got to monitor a couple of things at the same time here are we on a zoom call too [4:39] Chair: we we are yeah [4:40] John Hinzman: i just wanted to make sure that i'm not missing anyone who might be on here so i'm going to put that here and yeah so these two buildings here in red would be going away when you look at the rest of the property you have the home over here new garage proposed for this location this is a there's a carport that's out the back which is treated separately from these other buildings [5:19] Commissioner Tykan: it it just says that he must remove those after her to make this valid right what does that mean [5:26] John Hinzman: means that once the permit has been has been pulled on this property uh there needs to be a time frame for the demolition of these properties any concerns of that no i don't think so okay thank you mr [5:26] Chair: all right thanks for mr tykan commissioners any other comments or questions for john [5:32] Commissioner Maskey: i guess what makes this different than any i'm sorry what makes this different than any other uh variance requests such as the variance request that we had to build a garage just up the street three months ago [5:45] John Hinzman: in this situation here because this lo this property in the home is on the same parcel it prohibits any other construction of structures here and because the star ironworks building is is quite a distance away from the main home itself [6:12] John Hinzman: uh we find that as a differentiating situation here if this was closer and perhaps you could practically use this as a garage but because of the distance away from it we find that practical difficulty does exist within this property itself [6:43] Chair: okay nice commissioner maskey moment of silence there all right commissioner go ahead oh you have something all right what no no i think he was shy okay wish you're taking go ahead okay commissioners any other questions no if not i'll entertain a motion to approve based on the staff report [7:02] Commissioner Tykan: mr chair i'll make a motion that the planning commission recommend approval of variants 2022-40 accessory structure size for 707 first street east all right four conditions for conditions okay so [7:28] Chair: with the four conditions commissioner moments i'll second [7:31] Commissioner Romans: second [7:34] Chair: any other new discussion and everyone's here so all in favor signify by saying aye [7:40] Commissioners: aye [7:41] Chair: opposed motion carries [7:42] John Hinzman: okay hey mr chairman the final acts on this report will go to the city council on monday june 20th thank you [7:53] Chair: all right thank you uh we're we're gonna go and uh switch uh number four and number five around and take up uh the site plan for kfc first so next on the agenda will be the argonaut minnesota ventures site plan 2022-39 kfc 1726 from million street john [8:05] John Hinzman: thank you mr chairman and planning commissioners tonight before us we have a site plan request for a kfc restaurant [8:15] John Hinzman: to be located at the northwest corner of vermillion street and 18th street so on your map here you can see the location here it comprises of four parcels at present this is an older aerial photo in 2011 showing what was formerly the ericsson freedom gas station which has been demolished on the site and this is a aerial view presently which shows some of the pavement area but the building and tanks removed from the site so when we take a look at site plans we're taking a look at our zoning we're taking a look at certain aspects of development and i'll run through those here today so when we look at our planning documents a comprehensive plan the property is guided commercial so this can conforms with that under zoning the property is owned c3 community regional commerce [9:01] John Hinzman: retail and service uses including restaurants are considered permitted uses within that zoning district so this property meets the requirements of that district when you take a look at the surrounding area itself you can see that it is surrounded by commercial development to the north this is the future hastings dairy store site former sun kistan vermillion street to the east 18th street to the south with further commercial here and then residential properties directly to the west a residential home here at 122 18th street west and this one up here at 115 west 7 west 17th street so that is how the property lies on to the next map here this is a [9:47] John Hinzman: current view of the property as it sits today essentially the property boundary is about where the tree line is today this is looking north from 18th street up from million street bottom picture here shows where the property line would be showing some of the existing vegetation in the proximity of this building here to the existing home on 18th street so looking at the site plan itself this is how the site plans to be developed restaurant would be located at this location here there would be two entrances one off of 18th street at this location so people could come in and out on 18th street and then a singular entrance which would be right in right out on vermillion street and the drive-through traffic itself [10:34] John Hinzman: would function something like this where you'd have an order board at about this location drive through stacking pickup window on the west side of the building and then exit onto 18th street itself so one of the things we look at is vehicular access and circulation we did spend some time to try to determine the best way for for vehicles to enter and exit the site here we are comfortable with the with the plan that is being proposed at present we've also had mndot's uh review of this as well because it's on highway 61 and also because it's part of the larger construction project that mndot is planning in a couple of years for the reconstruction of 61. [11:16] John Hinzman: and we've had some discussions over the years about the potential of a stoplight at 18th street and how might intersection improvements here contend with that at this point that that's premature mndot's going through that study as we speak but something to keep in the back of our heads here that being said the location of the access points here are acceptable from that standpoint take a look at building setbacks when we have our commercial district we do not have prescribed minimum setbacks so we determine the setbacks on a site plan basis here when you take a look at the setbacks to commercial areas generally that's not going to be a concern to us we've got commercial to the north and we've got adequate room to the south into the east for landscaping [12:04] John Hinzman: roadways and so forth looking over to the west where you got adjacency to residential area is something that we are taking care in as far as trying to provide us the separation that is necessary on that side uh when you take a look at the past the convenience store that was located in erickson was about 16 feet so it would be roughly about this location here when you look at the proximity to the property line what's being proposed here is a about a 28 foot separation from the building to the property line and then you've got the drive through lane here so the drive-through lane of the traffic of the cars is generally about 20 feet back from the property line when you look at the property line in [12:50] John Hinzman: consideration of the home the home is going to be roughly 40 to 50 feet away from the property line so you're looking at a distance from these cars to the face of the building next door probably around 70 80 feet within this area here there's also proposed to be an eight-foot vinyl fence to provide separation along with the existing uh tree cover and some more landscaping that would go in there from a parking standpoint the site does meet our minimum parking requirements from a design standpoint meets our design requirements this shows you what the building would look like combination between a brick and other brick glass and some fiber cement siding which does meet our requirements from an architectural [13:36] John Hinzman: standpoint oops from a landscaping standpoint shows some buffer separations that are put in along vermilion street here as well as existing vegetation trees on the west and some more trees that are located up in this location here the lighting plan it does meet our our requirement for maximum lighting at the property line grading and drainage control there's not a lot to look at here the site is under an acre and was fully impervious previously so there's no requirement for on-site drainage on this drainage on the site would be through existing storm sewer they would have to have some rate control on there but not anything from a quality standpoint so within uh prior to the meeting we did receive a [14:22] John Hinzman: couple of comments that were included within your staff report here one relating to traffic coming in and out of the property being a concern to the neighborhood litter from the restaurant itself and the smell of the restaurant so i'm bringing that forward for your consideration we do have representatives from kfc that are on zoom tonight from the kfc and the development team if you have any questions for them or i can stand for any questions at this time thank you [15:00] Chair: okay thanks john all right commissioners any uh questions or comments otherwise i'd like to open it up to our guests um are you tim and mercy by chance? okay um it's not a public hearing officially but since you're here [15:08] Chair: feel free to step up here if you'd like to address us if you have any comments or you don't have to i'm just giving you the opportunity we have a light night tonight so we're okay on time so [15:15] Marcy Jorgensen: it's fascinating to learn and i'm pretty sure by the time we learn of the plans things are pretty far underway [15:21] Chair: can you do me a quick um and just introduce yourselves with your name and your address just for the public record thank you thanks [15:30] Marcy Jorgensen: my name is marcy jorgensen [15:33] Tim Bader: i'm tim bader [15:35] Marcy Jorgensen: we live at 122 18th street west hastings minnesota um and like i said things are probably far as far along as as they're going to be so that is probably my first question how far along in this process are you is [15:53] Marcy Jorgensen: it already considerably a done deal and anything we kind of say is just for formality or are do we really can we really weigh in with some considerations [16:03] Chair: i can answer that um so there's two two three three parts of the process obviously is the application process which is handled by our city staff john's department planning commission we look at the planning and zoning of the property specifically does it fit within the planning does it fit within the comprehensive plan within mndot highway 61 corridor plan that's in place and so forth so we're just looking at the land use itself to see if it fits the zoning requirements that's what our commission does and then the third step of course will be the final approval by city [16:40] Chair: council and that's that's typically where any other additional comments or concerns would come in you'd address your city council member or the city council as a whole when that approval process makes its way to the city council so it's a it's a multiple step process this particular step is just looking at the the the land use itself and is it is it adequate is it does it fit um there's you know and obviously it does because it's commercial property so all along highway 61. so um but that's what we look at here in this commission so [17:16] Marcy Jorgensen: and is it a troublesome piece of property i don't know i don't know we'll find out there no i was going to say we've lived here eight years and watched you know watched it over the years and have [17:26] Marcy Jorgensen: racked our brains for something useful to put there we do think that 18th and that corner is is dangerous one of my other questions was i understand that 18th is an emergency it was widened a couple of years ago to be emergency vehicle use through there to pine street is that correct and does that does that relate at all to this to the plans okay sure [17:51] John Hinzman: mr chairman uh 18th street is termed a collector road which means uh it's it's designated for some higher traffic within there as far as the widening west of there i can't remember the time frame or what improvements took place there i know to the east of it there was some improvements when it was turned back from mndot probably some 10 [18:13] John Hinzman: years ago but yeah it carries traffic it's strange intersection with the offset in it and it's been a prime concern of ours as far as how we can improve safety at that intersection [18:24] Marcy Jorgensen: do do we keep track of accident numbers and do those come into play so say that this all goes forward and then it ends up being a you know a safety nightmare that we foresee do you keep track of those numbers and does that come into play into into keeping it there how does that work [18:35] John Hinzman: yeah as far as the traffic numbers go there mndot keeps tabs on crash data and what happens at the intersection there they have their formulas as far as what would constitute something that would need more immediate improvement generally when you're taking a look at intersection improvements that would [18:58] John Hinzman: become a stop light you're taking a look at a certain traffic volume level not only of the the north south street vermillion but of of the east west traffic and then what type of traffic enters into there so certainly on their radar screen we've had some preliminary planning discussions with mndot as we look at 61 and going through the the study as we speak and highway 61 and 18th street has been one that's brought up and been brought up many times okay okay [19:35] Marcy Jorgensen: um so the freedom gas station obviously didn't work there as a commercial property right so um my next question is why would a kfc work from that from that side of things [19:46] Chair: what would work from a business standpoint is beyond you know the jurisdiction of this commission really the city what we're looking at is land use itself how a business chooses to operate and take a risk on uh the potential market is really going to be up to the business itself we're taking a look at with land use is really what are going to what have we looked at in planning what is the property legally zoned for for use and what sort of impacts does the specific building itself or use have on the neighborhood [20:25] Marcy Jorgensen: okay and there's been other things proposed and looked at from the planning not officially on this one since erickson closed [20:31] John Hinzman: i and that's been a number of years ago now i talked to a few people over the years [20:33] John Hinzman: but uh nothing official nothing that certainly has gone as far as the kfc [20:38] Marcy Jorgensen: okay everyone's kind of baffled right what to do with that property right yeah did you have questions [20:46] Tim Bader: uh my biggest concern would be the the barrier between the properties if it were if there was a drive-through establishment there and the direction in which the drive-through spits traffic out i believe you shouldn't have a choice but to make a left coming out of there those are my concerns on on that particular uh project i not [21:19] Marcy Jorgensen: really excited about the smell of fried chicken on a regular basis waffling into our home and i know the neighbor behind me feels the same way we know it decreases our property value we when we moved in the the quick trip was just going in and i was worried about that but we've ended up loving the quick trip because they're very good company they keep those lights on led and you know what i mean they're just and it's very convenient um so this we know is going to obviously decrease our property values it is a safety issue within a block we have both a wet house that requires a lot of community services if you will and then a lot of small children on that street so we are concerned about them as well [22:07] Marcy Jorgensen: but i'm sure that you know a big corporation doesn't have our home values much in mind so so it's too bad um but like i said i understand we understand the troublesome of that property we would like to see it developed i mean it's obviously better developed than not right city yeah we understand that yeah we understand the revenues are important to the city and it's functioning um but if we had you know if we have our say we'd really like to see something different there something safer something greener i'd like to see a kia if i saw kfc i wouldn't mind it over on 55 where the other fast food restaurants are yeah and the majority of the fast [22:53] Marcy Jorgensen: food yes where it's much easier to get in and out of and to be with the frontage road situation and all that so my other concern was the you know the aggregate the arden hills all those truckers turning and going in and out i'm sure you've considered that as well you know keeping their business working and going so right so that's my piece [23:17] Chair: okay any questions for us no i appreciate you coming um there's a second opportunity like i said when the city council takes us up that's also an open you can also attend that too as well [23:32] Marcy Jorgensen: we will certainly yep make an effort and we'll make that i don't know what date it'll be but we'll talk about that date here once we're done with our discussion um either way however decide how whichever way it goes the city [23:38] Chair: council will take it out wonderful thank you so do you have a date in mind in case anyone yes if the planning commission makes a recommendation tonight it would go next monday night uh june 20th at 7 p.m at this location okay okay yeah absolutely so thank you thank you no thank you to us we appreciate it well thank you for coming and your comments are part of our record we have them right here so we appreciate it thank you all right thank you [24:14] Chair: okay commissioners um go ahead and open it up for discussion [24:18] Melanie Peters: commissioner peters uh i thank you i just have a couple of of questions kind of related to some of the feedback that they had one of the questions i'm assuming that the trees um that kind of form that barrier will [24:24] Melanie Peters: be removed so the the vinyl funds that's going in do we know does that go all the way to the ground or will there be a gap i'm just thinking about the garbage and stuff if it goes down to the ground then there would be less space for garbage to be blown or anything through there to just kind of reduce that [24:50] John Hinzman: sure commissioner i believe that the fence would go all the way down to the ground level and i understand your concern on the reasons why it should and uh i believe that is that something that needs to be done okay because i i wasn't sure if you know because sometimes those little gaps that things can blow underneath yeah yeah okay um because paper could even blow through right there the other question that i had [25:09] Melanie Peters: um it looks like there's an a space for outdoor seating i don't know but i don't see in the plans um kind of i'm just wondering if there is outdoor seating i didn't see anything specific in the plan but it almost looks like in the loop by the drive-through that there could be some space there so just wondering if that was part of it because i think that also could contribute to noise levels and things like that [25:34] John Hinzman: sure a commissioner i'm not aware of any outdoor seating that area that if you're looking just north of the building itself would be there their their dumpster area their waste receptacle that's right that's like that yeah i just wanted to when i looked at it again sure i know that okay all right that those are the fence was the main question that i had [25:54] John Hinzman: and uh mr chair i i should note uh there's a a few people that are online right now for zoom a couple of names i recognize as being involved with kfc other people may be from the neighborhood or elsewhere so i'll leave it to your discretion if you wanted to do a call out to anyone that may be on us joining us on zoom that would like to speak to this item if they if if you're accommodating to that what i'd ask is if there's anyone out there that would wish to speak if they could use the raised hand function on zoom and then we can bring you into the meeting if you if you would like to make any comments on this [26:41] Chair: sure yes i'd be interested in hearing any other additional comments from anybody so when they raise their hand let me know okay um [26:41] Commissioner Maskey: are you talking about the two circles they look like tables up there no i knew they weren't tables oh okay i thought that's what that was i thought it was outdoor yeah i think we're like there was an open space oh it's like this area up here oh right there yeah yeah okay [27:08] Chair: and john much like she mentioned quick trip being a good neighbor and so forth because they realize they're right right in the neighborhood um hours of operation lighting has that all been discussed as far as um tampering down the lighting a bit you know is um that's what that sort of thing [27:27] John Hinzman: sure from a from in a lighting standpoint we have a 0.5 foot candle lighting requirement which probably doesn't mean anything to [27:27] John Hinzman: anyone what the heck's a half a foot candle but requirement on that which we have up and down through the city so they they are below that the other requirement is we have is is the lighting itself that is used in the site has to be directed onto the site it can't be pointed out towards residential areas and then so you can see it very brightly as far as hours of operation go i i'm not entirely certain of what those are we we do have some representatives from kfc on the line but perhaps they might be able to answer that question [28:04] Chair: okay yeah i do have a question for them too on the loudspeaker for the drive-through yeah because um as she mentioned quicktrip does not use the loudspeaker at night i mean everything's quiet and so [28:13] Chair: um obviously that's going to make a huge difference if that loudspeaker's you know pretty loud so i will have a question for them as well but do we have anybody on zoom from the neighborhood that wants to speak any raised hands [28:44] John Hinzman: we do have a raised hand i'm not sure if it's pertaining to the company or the neighborhood but i can bring them into the meeting if you'd like okay yeah let's bring them in and okay let me know when they're in all right i've got someone term phil latiberry uh you are in the meeting if uh if you'd like to speak okay phil are you with us [29:05] Phil Latiberry: phil you're on me might be on mute we're not able to hear you yeah i think you just put the mute button on now so phil if you want to mute yourself i think you were you were perhaps fine before but i see the mute symbol on now [29:34] John Hinzman: phil no pill yeah well we'll see what happens with phil here maybe maybe he'll come in a little later on i'll keep him in the meeting right now and see what happens so was there any other discussion point or did you have a question particularly for kfc if there's a representative there i see another hand going up here i again i'm not sure if this is a representative of kfc or a neighbor but i can bring michael takas into the meeting if you'd like me [30:04] Chair: sounds good all right we'll do [30:06] John Hinzman: i think okay michael you are in the meeting if you want to unmute [30:18] John Hinzman: okay one one second mike like you're unmuted i might be on my end here i gotta see if i can get this thing to turn up here uh michael can you speak hmm technology sometimes let's see here so he's coming across here so i don't let me try this this is i'm going to just turn my speaker up here michael are you could you say something uh shoot he's he's i don't know what is what's that yeah maybe i don't know what what's [31:04] John Hinzman: going on here because this should come through here sometimes it's all your i don't think you're on audio if you look on the bottom okay [31:51] Michael Takas: okay now i am okay michael good my name is michael taples i'm with polar engineering we're the site development consultants um on behalf of argonaut minnesota ventures um phil who was trying to get on is with uh argonaut and just in case you cannot get on i i wanted to jump on um you know i think we value the input um we want to be a good neighbor uh as well [32:26] Michael Takas: we're not looking to come into the community and cause a disruption we're looking to be an asset to the community through our discussions with planning you know the the screen fence was was discussed uh as an attempt to provide additional buffer space given the proximity of the residential property uh behind us and then also to help the height of the fence at eight feet was also done to help deflect any uh objectionable noise from the the drive-through uh order point as well uh obviously you know current technology is sparked better than what when drive-throughs first came around and you can sit there and it's [33:11] Michael Takas: we'll take every effort to make sure that the volume that's coming out of there is adequate to to serve our customers but not objectionable to the neighborhood at large and you know as far as the building itself you know this will be a brand new facility so everything from the the kitchen to the hvac system will be state of the art and up to all the current uh codes and standards as required so so this restaurant will be way more um or away i should say way less of an impact than what restaurants would have been 10 15 20 years ago and again we are looking to be a good neighbor we do envision most of our traffic is [33:56] Michael Takas: going to go out to vermillion um be it either through the access directly under vermilion or on to 18 and then on to vermillion we really do not see our guests coming in from 18 um other than just basically coming in directly off of vermillion if they're heading in the northbound direction of course that will have to be a permit by mndot which we we're in the process of having that discussion with them now their comments were not uh in any way saying that we could not get that access of that right turn right in right out i think we actually wind up closing some access points that are out there today and that were there previously so reducing access points is usually a [34:44] Michael Takas: positive from a traffic standpoint but anyway not sure that that's exactly what bill wanted to say but i did want to say something on behalf of the developer and the development team so [34:57] Chair: okay thanks a quick question for you so do you do the kfc's typically intentionally um vent outwards um like a burger king does because they intentionally do that so that when you get into the area you know you're in the area of a burger king do you intentionally vent out that way or do you try to keep in the natural in the new stores [35:22] Michael Takas: i i don't know i wish don't i hope phil could maybe get on maybe he could maybe hear him now so he could weigh in directly on that [35:32] Phil Latiberry: can you guys uh this is phil adamari okay are you guys able to hear me now yes yeah okay good yeah we do bid to the out um we're unlike a hurricane i'm very keen to have a flat chart grill and you can see the smoke coming out we don't have any of that going on we do cook with pressure cookers um so it's really limited to stain and not smoke coming out our events they are state of the art uh and they do the air doesn't rise away from our building because all our air conditioners are everything are concealed on that roof um so it needs to bend pretty far up so that we're not um our air conditioners aren't bringing it in [36:17] Phil Latiberry: and um somebody brought up about outside seating we do not have outside seating and we and we have no plans for outside skating you know in our restaurants we don't have any outside change at this point right now um so i hope that answers your question and uh and just like michael said we want to be a good neighbor and do what we can with defense and to make things pleasant to be on the highway right there okay thank you commissioners you have any questions for go ahead [36:58] Commissioner Romans: commissioner romans um a couple quick questions on that fence again i know this comes up quite a [37:02] Commissioner Romans: bit with this but um is it constructed solid as in there will be no slats in it uh i'm thinking headlights from vehicles pulling in on the north on the northern portion um and then as well as a sound proofing of that fence if it's vinyl is there's i don't know fences in this way but is there a way to do like the highways a little bit and that sound insulating not even thinking about necessarily the sound coming out of the speaker but uh we're known to have some loud vehicles around here sometimes um and uh so whatever it can be used to absorb some of that sound to break off um break that barrier up a little bit um so if you can kind of go into a little more detail on what that fence structure is planned to be or what it can be [37:53] Michael Takas: right now the defense would be a solid panel so it would be a true screen fence it would not be a big defense just decorative the goal of it is to is to provide both visual and sound attenuation it is not going to necessarily be insulated um from the inside you know the proximity that the site is relatively narrow as it exists today and you know there is a lot of sound just ambient sound that is coming off vermillion in the traffic which obviously will be going at a higher rate of speed on vermilion than what it will itself the height of the fence should should really help [38:39] Michael Takas: knock down sound from basically migrating but i will tell you that it's you know it's not a highway quality sound wall um in this case because of what we're trying to attenuate which is basically idling vehicles i don't know that it [39:08] Michael Takas: the other thing i want to point out is that the large groupings of trees we are preserving those those are actually not being removed um as i think was previously stated that those are remaining in the screen fences to go in front of those [39:21] Commissioner Romans: okay that i mean that's good to know i i you know my obviously preference here is whatever for noise canceling on that as much as can be i realized that there was probably already noise from the highway there but like i said my concern is probably minnesota exhaust systems don't last very long or people intentionally on their trucks make it a lot louder and that's just quite close there so whatever we can do moving forward to reduce it to conditions that was before [39:54] Commissioner Romans: out of respect for the neighbors would be um something that we should take a look at moving forward otherwise good yeah i think that's all i had thank you commissioner romans thank you commissioners any other questions [40:07] Commissioner Maskey: commissioner matsky yeah okay so with the trees are staying there then the fence is not actually on the property line it's offset from the property line and then will you have some sort of maintenance agreement with the property owners to maintain those trees [40:24] Michael Takas: and i think the fence is on the line i think the trees go back and forth between the two properties at least where the trunks are they may even actually wind up splitting [40:55] John Hinzman: yeah comment from the audience here from the neighboring property owner that the trees except for one large one are on the kfc property my uh correctly okay i'm sorry we lost the sound again okay that's that's on me i didn't turn my microphone on but i was uh talking to a neighbor in the audience here who's here at the meeting tonight and he states that all the trees but for one large tree are on the kfc property if that that's your understanding [41:35] Michael Takas: i think again you know when the survey tries to identify where the trunk is it's all about where the surveyor took the [41:40] Michael Takas: shot so our effort would be again like i said we're not looking to take those trees out and we'll install the fence right so we'll install the fence whether it's completely in front of the trees behind the trees or woven in between both ways our goal is to have that fence installed along that proper line that's a buffer between the kfc and the joining uh residential property right so my question is is will there be some sort of maintenance agreement so if you need to get in there and maintain those trees i reached with the the neighbors how are you going to access those trees to if there's an issue i would go back i would default if the tree is that has an issue is on the kfc property then it's the kfc's obligation [42:27] Michael Takas: to take care of it if the treaty i think that's you know even as far as trimming things that branches that overhang um you know i believe in most cases that is the responsibility of the overhang goes into the property and the property owner who has that tree overhanging wants to trim that they're allowed and able to do that [42:53] Commissioner Maskey: okay alrighty i'm just in this case i just have that issue with northern states power they have no access to my backyard and yet i've got need to get them back there to come back there and trim trees and they won't because they can't get back there so now how how are you going to get back there to do this if you know [43:14] Michael Takas: again i i think some of the location of that fence is going to be field driven to work around the the actual trees themselves so i can't definitively say for sure whether all of the three is going to be on one side of the fence or the other um if the the neighbor who spoke said that they're all on the kfc property then i would envision that that fence would be on the back side of that again all depending upon the size of the tree trunk and you know is it strapping the property line or not that would be that's going to have to be a kind of a construction on-site adjustment that's made you know as that fence is getting installed okay and then just to bring the camera [44:00] Chair: wrap the conversation in here the trees stay the fence goes in correct well we'll let that yeah we'll let everybody handle the uh ins and outs of the property line and so forth down the road commissioners any other questions [44:17] Commissioner Leifeld: commission lebron um just one for john so john um as i mentioned previously we have the vermilion corridor plan um on the books i'm just wondering how this relates i didn't see anything with a staff report um regarding that so [44:31] John Hinzman: yeah uh commissioner the vermilion corridor plan that we have uh we looked at the the district requirements within this area here [44:47] John Hinzman: there is the the desire to place buildings closer to the street uh in compounding that against how the site develops and how the impact would be to the neighboring property owners there i mean we've got a situation we're looking at the site taking the building and trying to reconfigure it a number of different ways to see if perhaps a better sighting and this might work best to to meet the requirements and the suggestions of the corridor plan and better work with uh the owners next door on that one with the property directly to the north on that one it at its location set back where it is with the parking in front of it and cross-access easement in between there we thought it would be best if that [45:34] John Hinzman: building lined up to where it was we had concerns that the parking area being on the other side of the road of the building between them and the homes there would create more noise and impact to the homes than it would be on the other side of it so that's the conclusion that we came up with okay so the sighting was kind of driven by the drive-through configuration of the proposal correct looking at impacts [46:13] Commissioner Leifeld: yeah i mean they're looking at at impacts of cross-access between this property and the property to the north and taking a look at the the impacts of vehicles entering and exiting the site okay and then um it's the co-op creamery or the creamery sorry to [46:21] Commissioner Leifeld: the north um were they involved at all in the discussions with cross access or they don't really have a say because of the easement [46:27] John Hinzman: their my understanding is that there's an existing cross-access easement between the property so an existing document that pre-dates hastings co-op creamery's interest in the property sure okay okay that covers that [46:42] Commissioner Leifeld: yeah and i guess um just for commissioners my thinking is um you know site plan everything aside uh you know also at at hand is whether or not we're gonna go forward you know with the restaurant overall um when i read through the vermillion corridor plan what that is kind of shooting for i'm just not sure if a drive-through restaurant of this form [47:07] Commissioner Leifeld: and function is really you know with that moving forward you know similar similar uses to the entire opportunity site are referenced et cetera et cetera it's just not i just can't square it in my head as far as that goes relating to the future goals of the plan and the corridor to go for another one of these setups basically so that's just kind of my thought site plan wise seems like they've done you know the best they can with the constraints that they have but i'm just not sure that's a direction we should continue um in relation to that entire corridor so okay thanks commission lebron [47:53] Commissioner Tykan: commissioner tyken thank you mr chair uh i had a lot of questions about the fences and it seemed like that's been resolved i know we mentioned the lighting the half foot candle something or another my big concern of that is i think that's an ordinance across the city but yet if we put up light up high enough people on the ground level still see that light off the property and i'm wondering if if that's taken into consideration here [48:19] John Hinzman: yeah commissioner when we we have the lighting requirement from uh you know an illumination level on that but we also have a requirement for shielding and cut off shields for the lighting assembly itself so you know having a situation where you would have a bulb dangling from a pole here that would uh project [48:38] John Hinzman: in all directions would be something that would be prohibited it would have to be something that would either be directed onto the site or have shields around it so that you didn't get the backsplash into areas it's not supposed to go so if they build something the neighbors have problems so then they come to the city and take care of that okay um question about the stormwater how come they don't have to do anything with the water you said it was impervious but it's half gravel half cement today [49:15] John Hinzman: it is the uh the the requirement for these is driven by you know bringing in over one acre of new impervious surface so in this situation most of it was impervious and so it doesn't meet that requirement for on-site storage in treatment [49:25] Commissioner Tykan: so so if a car is leaking oil when they go through the drive-through that's just going to wash down into the storm water [49:33] John Hinzman: that situation yeah it would go into the storm water as it would in other places of the city it should be nice to change that moving forward and then do we have any ordinances around shielding roof equipment [49:45] John Hinzman: shielding roof equipment no we have a a policy that anything that is on a rooftop unit would be painted to match or covered by a parapet wall okay and this conforms to that i don't think it has a parapet wand there but any rooftop units would need to be painted to match the building in my experience uh the best situation you have is you can have a pyramid wall if that's if that's not the situation paint to match [50:11] John Hinzman: when you try to put a fence or screening up there it just highlights it to me look i've seen that in the past right um as far as you know the the site plan um you know it's unfortunate that you moved in next to a commercial zoning district and i i totally understand it i use 18 to get down to pine because it's a nice fast route for me so you know personally it's not going to be fun to deal with kfc traffic but that's a personal thing and not a city thing um restaurants are allowed in that c3 zone so to me you know our focus is very narrow what's the site plan does the site plan make sense and unfortunately i you know i shouldn't say that it to me it makes sense that the site [50:56] Commissioner Tykan: plan is there i can't say that a restaurant's either a good use or bad use there because it's allowed there um and that's not really in our preview so we have to look at it from that standpoint and i hope you understand that so thank you mr chair appreciate it thank you missionary romans i just had one quick follow-up question um just looking at this where is uh snow removal going perhaps uh we have some of those areas that were identified as potential outdoor seating areas in the in the area be that center island [51:38] Michael Takas: yeah correct that's our largest area it has a few trees but it's not really more lawn than anything else um so it's our largest open space that that's that's really where we would anticipate most of the the snow will be being allocated there are some other landscape areas around that's the largest one that we have there there wouldn't be any snow piled up towards uh the 18th street or vermillion at all correct the block [52:21] Michael Takas: yeah i don't believe we have anything other than a smaller event where you might just have a little bit of you know a little quick plow area that mounts up but nothing as far as wholesale removal and and stacking over the winter we don't condition it there there's just not enough room over there [52:28] Commissioner Romans: okay yeah no i appreciate that just just asking the questions just to make sure that everything's considered there so i appreciate it thank you all right commissioner romans thanks commissioners any other questions discussion commission lebron one more john should this go forward as i'm looking and as i'm remembering having walked through there a number of times i know the sidewalk is in pretty rough condition especially at budding you know the former concrete at the gas station and the little piece between that and the property to the north and i don't see anything in the site plan you know specifically regarding uh repairing that i know it can get a little funny that being mndot right of way and everything is that something that we can require that the sidewalk be repaired or [53:14] John Hinzman: replaced along the property commission as far as a requirement on that i i don't know if we can it's an aw it would be termed an off-site improvement there it was part of a plat we we could do that since there's not a platinum involved in this i don't think that we could with the with the vermilion street corridor planning by midnight going on right now and our people movement plan that that's going to be a prime candidate okay all right thanks commission lebron commissioners any other questions discussion john do i have anybody else with a raised hand in the zoom [53:57] John Hinzman: mr chairman i do not believe we do okay [53:59] Chair: all right all right i'm seeing is no other questions or comments i'll entertain a motion either way if anybody wants to make one [54:02] Commissioner Hallberg: mr chair i'll make the motion to approve sight plane kfc restaurant 2022-39 1726 vermillion street with the eight uh conditions [54:15] Chair: okay commissioner hallberg do i have a second [54:18] Commissioner Maskey: i'll second [54:20] Chair: mr matsky second any new discussion if none take a vote all in favor say aye [54:24] Commissioners: aye [54:25] Chair: opposed nay and one day commissioner lebron and as a reminder planning commissioners the recommendation for approval will move forward to the city council on the monday june 20th meeting at 7 p.m thank [54:46] Chair: you okay thanks thank you for coming and then june 20th would be the next opportunity all right thank you thank you for your consideration and your time have a good evening yes thank you i almost forgot about you up there on the screen thanks for we appreciate it thank you sorry i'm not yeah [Laughter] no thank you very much have a good day all right have a good night thanks [55:15] Chair: okay um let's jump back into the uh next action here the tc land final plat 2022-33 heritage ridge fourth edition and john [55:25] John Hinzman: thank you commissioners today we had a final plan application for heritage ridge which is the last phase of development of the heritage ridge subdivision consisting of about 36 lots on 12 acres the property of this edition is towards the north half general sieben drive is to the east the existing portions of heritage ridge to the south to the north here sea's church is just off screen and then to the west of the development we have uh areas of miniature township which are agriculture and to the south [56:00] John Hinzman: you can see part of the mining operation from solberg at this location comprehensive plan guides the property low residential this is consistent with what is being proposed here with the final plant as well as the zoning with the r2 designation allowing for the types of lighting and uses that are proposed within the subdivision so when we're looking at this process here final plaid a difference really between a preliminary plant and a final plait is when we do a preliminary plant we're really going through the plan for subdivision of a larger parcel we're going through the in-depth review of engineering streets grading storm water utilities all the mechanics that make up and are necessary for subdivision of the property in the future now when we get to the point of final [56:46] John Hinzman: plot what we're looking at doing is comparing the plans that are proposed here with our preliminary plat and making sure that those are consistent with it and because now what we're doing is the official lotting of this subdivision and subdividing it into different lots so when we take a look at our preliminary plant we take a look at the final plot this is consistent with it and virtually identical to what we had in the preliminary flat approval and preliminary plot we did planning commission did review this back in august of 2020 with council approval in october of 2020. [57:25] John Hinzman: taking a look at various aspects of the subdivision the lot layout setbacks meet our requirements let's go over to here this is how it fits into the entire subdivision so northridge drive which would be a collector road would continue through the subdivision here and provide access so there's been a little bit of a strain right now i has having one entrance in at fallbrook this will alleviate that and also serve as a collector road for the future you can see that it's stubbed out here to the west and that will continue on further west in the future with northridge drive come sidewalk and trail improvements so that will be within this uh roadway as well so that'll be continued on we also have a stormwater bonding basin [58:11] John Hinzman: towards the north here that will be included within the subdivision as the outlawed out the street layout here northridge drive west point circle connecting point up here consistent with the preliminary plat from the pedestrian axis standpoint sidewalk on the north side of northridge drive with a trail and south side of northridge so facilities on both sides of the roadway sidewalks will connect to the facilities along ridge point west view going north here to link up with with northridge drive so and that would connect to our greater trail system and also provide connections further west of the future boulevard plan landscape plan for trees was approved as part of the preliminary plant will be included on the documents for final plant approval from a civil [58:57] John Hinzman: plan standpoint we're going through the review of that with our engineering department at present want to ensure that everything is buttoned up here from a drainage standpoint uh for the entire subdivision so we're going through that final review now but do not anticipate that having any effect on the lotting and street locations that are being proposed today so with the development as it goes to council will be having different agreements that move forward to ensure development including a development agreement which is a contract between the city and the developer to ensure that things are constructed the way they need to be constructed association maintenance agreement for any uh for the out lots and storm water basins so that the overall maintenance in the long term is the responsibility of that private entity [59:42] John Hinzman: from a parkland dedication standpoint with the original preliminary plat the park board and the council recommended that cash in lieu of land be paid to satisfy park dedication requirements when they looked at the subdivision our overall park plan had a regional park in the future in this location more centralized to this development so that'll be something we'll be looking at in the future upon any consideration of future development to the west so we are recommending approval of the final plot per the requirements and the recommendations of the staff report and i can stand for any questions that you may have okay thanks john commissioners open up [1:00:29] Commissioner Maskey: mr matzke all right so on the previous plats on this site there was a geologic issue that came up where those resolved and i'm not sure if the some of the commissioners know of the some of the previous stuff that was happening um have those issues been resolved do we know if there's going to be more blasting done on on the site or is or they've figured out that that's not required for this site now [1:00:54] John Hinzman: commissioner there is a there is a prohibition on blasting on any further subdivisions here so we we've added that into the development agreement on the the third edition and we'll continue that forward to the fourth edition so there would be a prohibition on blasting from a [1:01:16] John Hinzman: practical standpoint would there be a need to remove rock as we move into the future here we're from talking to the developer they think that they have found all those areas and removed those but i don't know if other stuff might come up here in the future but if rock was to be uh found it would need to be jackhammered not blasted [1:01:40] Commissioner Maskey: okay have there been any additional complaints from all of this has it all been resolved in the in the previous editions have is it that all been resolved [1:01:52] John Hinzman: as far as the resolution of complaints i'm uncertain if they have i have not heard anything new from residents since the blasting took place last summer i think maybe the summer before that [1:02:02] John Hinzman: maybe a year year and a half ago that the blasting was taking place in this i am aware that there were insurance claims made i'm unclear what happened to those okay so all right okay thank you thank you commissioners any other questions comments if not i'll entertain motion to approve [1:02:18] Commissioner Tykan: commissioner tyken thank you mr chair uh excuse me uh make the planning commission recommend approval of heritage ridge fourth edition final plat 2022-33 tc land all right motion to approve commissioner tykan do i have a second [1:02:44] Commissioner Hallberg: out second oh commissioner hallberg all right commissioner robert second any new discussion if none all in favor say aye aye motion carries thank you [1:02:59] John Hinzman: and then the recommendation on this one we brought forward to city council i don't know if it's going to be at the june 20th meeting or not it may be delayed we're looking at buttoning up all the final agreements necessary in order before we bring this together in one package so uh maybe at a later meeting than uh the june 20th at this point okay thanks uh next on the agenda is other business john [1:03:22] John Hinzman: other business i know it's been a a little while since we've met here as far as action had taken place the last item that we were looking at was a rezoning [1:03:34] John Hinzman: comprehensive plan amendment for some place west of los margaritas 22nd 23rd street i believe that was approved by the council and the home is has disappeared from that site the new home will be coming forward in the near future here looking at other action items that we have coming before us we've got a meeting scheduled in a couple of weeks we are looking at some potential ordinance amendments for discussion that we may have ready for you at that next meeting so i know of that in particular i don't have any public hearings at this point scheduled for it but have that aspect of it as far as other things going around around the community at this point we uh the heritage ridge subdivision continues to move forward with the [1:04:21] John Hinzman: grading and the lot creation down there we have continued to have good discussions with folks and potential other development coming forward that may be coming here to this commission in the near future fleet farm project is moving forward we've issued the certificate of occupants temporary for their hiring event the inside of the building looks like what a fleet farm should look like on the inside of the building they'll be doing some work on the outside of it here in the next month or two still looking at a fall opening there so i think that's most of what i had oh the other thing i was going to mention too was on the i mentioned a couple of times tonight that mndot is going through a large planning effort along highway 61. so [1:05:08] John Hinzman: they are planning to reconstruct the entire roadway through town in 2026 so prior to doing that this year into early next year they're going about a planning effort to determine what those improvements consist of and from our standpoint there's certainly things that priorities that we've established through our planning documents and also we want to be able to have the input from people up and down the corridor there was a public an initial public open house that mndot had uh middle of may and also an online mapping system in which people could go up and down the corridor and know things that they would like to see changed or things that [1:05:54] John Hinzman: should not be changed on that i think one of the initial questions that the mndot personnel brought up and discussions with the council and at the meeting was if there's one thing that you could change along the corridor what would that be so really kind of isolate that i know when you take a look at 61 it can be kind of ominous to take to determine what that would be point of this is we're in the very beginning sections of that right now when we had the open house it wasn't the type of open house in which there was any sort of preconceived notion of what the corridor should look like but more what would you like to see and so we've had oh geez we've got those comments in right now i guess there's comments from the audience and uh they'll be [1:06:39] John Hinzman: those comments will be developed into into plans that will again be reviewed by the public and i'll keep this commission up to tabs of what's going on with that so that's all i had [1:07:01] Chair: okay thanks john commissioners any other business if not i'll entertain a motion to adjourn [1:07:08] Chair: we are adjourned