Let's call the meeting to order. City of Laredo Special City Council meeting, Council Chambers, 1110 Houston Street, Laredo, Texas, January 30, 2025. It is 5:34 p.m. All stand for the pledge of allegiance. >> I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Moment of silence and I would like to give Mayor Ramro Garca from Edinburg my deepest sympathy for his announcement of having prostate cancer. He announced yesterday that he will not be running again. So our prayers to him. >> Thank you. You may be seated. Right. Mr. Secretary, roll call. >> Honorable mayor, Dr. Victor D. Travinho. >> Present. >> Council member District 1, Gilbert Gonzalez. >> Council member District 2, Ricardo Vanel Jr. Council member district three Melissa Cigaro >> here. >> Council member District 4, Ricardo Rick Garza. >> I am here. >> Council member District 5 Ruben Gutier Jr. >> present. >> Council member District 6, Dr. Tyler King. >> Mayor Promp Vanessa Perez. Council member District 8, Alisa Sigoa >> here. >> Mayor, you have a quarum. >> Thank you. >> Do we have any citizens comments? >> No citizen comments, mayor. >> All right. Thank you. All right. Before we begin, I want to let the public know that the bond referendum disc referendum discussions today are based on recommendations from management and from our board referendum committees. This is not what has been approved. These are recommendations which was the task given to the committees which council appointed representatives. I do want to thank the bond referendum committee for all their hard work and dedication in this process and I know that we all have been in contact [clears throat] with our representatives. So I want to thank my representatives chairman ecto lanes Rick Larel, David Vasquez and Jerry Maldonado. I also want to reiterate and share with my fellow council members that on the bond elections we need to focus on the core functions of government and even with these these core functions we need to prioritize our communities essential needs. So I would like to hear from management position on each recommendation and vote on them separately. I mentioned this because just recently I was on the verge of calling an emergency meeting when federal grants were frozen because it would several of our city departments and effectively shut down certain essential services. One of those departments is our health department to the tune of 19 million and directly impacted 218 jobs. So the health department as a core service is a primary focus. This is not including our massing responsibility that we have for fixing our water infrastructure which will include an an initial crit critical step of 90 95 million for some of the lines that we know that are exposed to rupture and complete failure and also the looming 800 million to overhaul the entire system. So, please keep this in mind when approving funding today. Let's move on forward. Mr. Neb, >> sir, uh, mayor, city council, uh, I re reiterate the thanks that the mayor has, uh, given. Uh, I will tell you that the bond referendum committee took their charge very seriously and, uh, they had a lot of, uh, really good conversations. We took that entire group of uh of individuals and we broke them up into subgroups and they walked through each one of the things. So I I do I reiterate I I actually want to make sure that mayor, city council, staff, everybody that's been involved with this. Laredo has not done this very often and so I think it's been a very good time for all of us to learn uh some other opportunities that we may have in order to help provide uh support for our what our services that we're providing. Uh I want also want to thank uh from after staff will be the our bond council and our financial advisor and they are we have representatives here as well too. So, what we've tried to do for today uh was make sure that we had everybody in the room to um to assist you in how we walk through the information, how we brought it all to this point. Um and and then to try to just answer your questions as we walk through everything. One of the things uh that I I want to make sure that everybody is aware of because when we started the whole conversation, we were looking at a May election. If we are to do the May election, we have until February 14th to have all of our uh the ordinance essentially established is saying these are the questions we will put on the election. You have to call for the election uh by February 14th. We have tenatively scheduled a uh February 10th council meeting which is on a Monday so that a special so that we can do it earlier than the 14th because if there's anything overlying we need a little bit of time to make it whatever the final adjustments are. So, as you walk through today, as you walk through the information and everything, we want to make sure that you keep focused on we're we're running uh we're we're running tight on time and we have 15 days from from tomorrow, counting tomorrow to get all of this work done. Um so, uh for tonight, uh you know, it's a continuation from Monday because actually Monday helped us out a lot. uh the information that we provided you out from finance and budget is to help you. It's a it's within this folder as well too. This is update based upon some of the conversations we had at the council because we we've actually included additional projects that were that we heard that were important. Uh we we actually will have a couple projects that have been deemed as of yesterday that are not as important to put into this bond referendum. So all that information is going to be set on the table tonight. Uh, so I want to make sure you do that. Uh, make sure you understand what we're hoping to get through. Um, the only other things that I have to say and then I I'll kind of turn it back over to everybody to walk through all these pieces is that um, yeah, we we have the we have the 15 days. Uh, what I'm hoping to do is that we spent a lot of time on Monday talking about police and fire. We're we're going to come back to those, but I would like to make sure that we talk about the other two uh areas that we looked at. And so my recommendation is that once we get through with some of the conversation when we start looking at the projects, if we can do health department, do the enrichment services and then come back to public safety and public infrastructure as well too. I know we have a lot of individuals here that are very uh interested in this conversation. So, I'm going to stop talking and I'll I'll share I'll share when it becomes necessary. But, uh, I think based upon the conversation at the council meeting, mayor, city council, I think we were going to allow the bond referendum committee to share some of their insights, what they learned throughout that that that course of that. And then when we get to the nature of looking at what the subcommittees have presented, I would just ask that we start with health, go to enrichment services, public safety, and public infrastructure. >> All right. Thank you. All right. Thank you. >> Start with health. >> And I'll I believe your representative uh >> uh your your who chaired the entire thing might be able to say some things first. Would you have >> all Thank you. And then I think if you want to hear from any of the other bond referendum committee members are here. So I thank you sir. Um for the record, Hector Alanise um I uh chaired the uh main committee but there was a lot of work that was done you know through the uh you know uh subcommittees of uh you know who were chaired by Mr. Roella Chuarez uh David Cash Vasquez and >> Tony Ason. So um my hats off to them uh for uh you know uh serving as sheriffs to the subcommittees but uh it was quite a bit of a learning experience. I think everybody um you know put all their efforts you know we worked really hard you know we took it very seriously. Um we uh there are some some things that you know uh we kind of understood and some things that you know we kind of learned you know from having some uh uh information some talks you know with uh with the consultants and of course the city manager and assistant city managers. Um we all know that uh the bonds were at uh we were given a task of you know using about $800 million and I think all of us understand that uh that you know that's a lot of money and so um we have a task of uh serving as an advisory committee uh to uh city council of course and of course city council will take our considerations uh and recommendations um review them and then of course if you're going to tweak them and of course then it'll finally go to the voters. Uh we did not have a last opportunity to uh meet once again as we had planned to prioritize the projects but I think you know some of the department heads are going to be talking about that and I'm and I'm pretty sure that uh when you speak with them they'll let you know which projects you know are more important to them. uh we all know that public safety uh is at the top of the list but uh there was other projects that were discussed in the health and wellness you know subcommittee the enhancement services and also public infrastructure. So again uh thank you for giving us all the opportunity to uh to serve and uh if you've got any questions I'm here to answer or you know any of our chairs would be able to assist with that. >> Any questions? No sir. >> All right. Thank you. >> Thank you very much. Good evening, honorable mayor and council. Jesus par with the budget department. We're going to be uh looking at the file that has all the projects and as was mentioned we will start with the health and wellness. Uh so the attachment of the file that we're going to be working it was was uh presented to the in the folder right now. So that's a hard copy of the file that we have in here. The file that we have does have additional information that we're going to be working with, but that has all the projects listed in there. No. Councilman, you need something. >> Mayor, might be might I be directed? >> Yes. Go ahead. Is it's the same uh booklet that you gave us last time or is it a new >> It's a different one. >> It's a different one. >> Yeah. The >> Do you have a hard copy? >> Yeah. The first this this slide that we have here. >> So, we're going with the same one that we had the last time that this one >> the packet that we had on the on the previous meeting. >> All right. Cool. was missing this column here on the screens uh which it says council. >> The other three columns before that to the left were the same amount the subcommittee the main committee amounts and the city administration amount. This is the adjustments that were made yesterday based on our meeting on Monday. Uh if you notice the uh fire on the top has 85.3. I'm >> sorry I don't mean to interrupt. >> Yes. Before we proceed, question just uh make uh just acknowledge that councilman is here >> and counciloman Yes, Vanessa Pettis is here. >> Thank you. >> So, and I want to go this is just a summary and then we'll go into the health tab and all the different projects that the health department has. The uh u there was an adjustment there and that amount was reduced to 85.3 based on the conversation with Chief Herd. Uh the police is the same amount that we had 176 as well as health and community development public work paving project the same. The other project the parks and wreck was the one that was uh 40 million. The new amount is 80,700 that includes now a couple of projects that we have in the the tap itself and we'll go over them. Uh so from here we're going to jump into the health department detail. So this is the health department and on the top we have we have it by years 27 28 29. Uh those are the years that were submitted by the department uh Dr. Richard Chamberlain. We have in the construction design and survey equipment furnishing and contingency. This is one main project, the different amounts that were considered and it's a $70 million project for the expansion of the health department. Uh if uh you if you want Dr. Chamberlain, he can come in and and >> Yes. >> Yes, Dr. Chamberlain, please. >> He can go over the amounts. Just briefly, we have the 27, 28, 29. There's nothing in there. So, his main project is only in fiscal year 27. Total project is 70 million. So, I'll let him >> Good evening or still with a little bit of afternoon. Good evening. Good afternoon, Mayor and members of the council. Dr. Richard Chamberlain, your public health director. And if you would allow me, I can give you a little bit more context um about our um proposal for the enhancement, renovation, and expansion of our public health department. And I'm just going to share a little bit more with you all. And I first off also want to start off by saying thank you very much to the committee members to all the committee members who are present here today and to those that served on the health and wellness subcommittee. We appreciate your time and the service to invest into this proposal. And as you all very much know um Laredo Public Health does so much more than just vaccines and birth and death death certificates. Um during this situation that we are experiencing um with this most recent freeze of federal funds um there are just in the federal funds and state fund side we have 41 different programs and services. So that is an array a very dynamic health department that is ensuring that we are serving protecting preventing and transforming the lives of the residents of Laredo and beyond. Some of those programs go beyond um the city of Laredo and Web County as well. Um and so with that, we are wanting to make sure a healthy population means stronger families, productive workforce, thriving economy, and investing in our growth ensures healthier lives, stronger communities, and a brighter future for all. As you all may know as well, the public health challenges that we experience here in Laredo are chronic disease, our high chronic disease burden, mental health care and behavioral health needs, substance use and addiction treatment gaps, health professional shortage and medically underserved designations, a high under and uninsured population, and the vast array of social determinance of of health that our community experiences due to us being a resource desert. Here's some data that you can see here on these maps. Um, specifically, you're looking at diabetes, at high blood pressure, at high cholesterol, at obesity. And as you can see, they are very dark shaded, the vast majority of these census tracks. This is demonstrating that we are very high in all these levels when compared to the state, when compared to the national average regarding our prevalence in these specific chronic diseases. Um, some of our census tracks on the diabetes site are as high as 30% of persons over the age of 18 that have diabetes. Our diabetes prevalence in our most recent community health the needs assessment was 15.7. I still feel that's a little low because that's diagnosed and we know that there's a lot of di of undiagnosed individuals as well, but that translates to about 40,000 plus persons in our community that are diabetic. With that we are sharing here a little bit more information about stroke about depression about COPD and about heart disease and at the root cause public health can make sure that these prevalences go down. I want to share a little bit about the cost of inaction. The combined economic burden of diabetes, hypertension, and obesity in Laredo is conservatively estimated at between 854 million to 1.2 billion annually. So that is for the indirect and direct costs that persons who are diagnosed with diabetes, with obesity, with hypertension pay out because of their health status. So this is alarming that this that this number exists because of poor health status or low health literacy and that's where public health can also come in and help out and so a little bit of background in the need. Laredo Public Health is requesting a 70 million in bond refer and bond funding to expand and modernize its infrastructure. Opened in 1970 and the health office was created by this council in n um 90 years ago in 1935. So we're 90 years strong as a legacy public health department pillar in the community and we want to continue to grow and transform with our population. The investment will allow us to expand to 120,000 square ft. Currently, we're about 80,000. This will add a 15,000t clinical research space and a third floor which is an additional 25,000 ft. A structural assessment of the Loro Public Health Department is funded for FY2025 as this was in our vision for the community and has already commenced. Since January of 2024, Laredo Public Health has submitted 18 funding applications totaling to eight $48 million, securing seven of those awards and we're pending to totaling to over $10 million. And as of this moment, we are on our journey to expand research on the border, contribute to the literature, make sure that border health, Hispanic health, Mexican-American health is something that has a bigger foundation in the literature where right now we do have ongoing research with UT Health, Sam Houston University, the University of Florida, and the University of South Carolina. key needs addressed with our with with this potential investment into public health. So we are wanting to make a difference in that prevalence. So a modest reduction of just 1 to 2% in diabetes cases could eliminate between 400 and 800 cases annually, saving the community between 7 million and 14 million per year in healthcare and productivity costs. This proactive investment would allow the $70 million bond to pay for itself within four to nine years, demonstrating both economic and public health benefits. The proactive solutions for long-term gains um will allow us to expand and increase uh space for staff. Currently, we have many staff who are crammed into tight spaces because we continue to grow with the number of awards that we respond to by the conversations that we have with the members of our community. We don't just listen. We truly understand and we [snorts] apply to those awards. We bring them in, we secure them, and we grow. But we don't have the space to do that. And we're just building for a healthier future. This is our projected timeline. We do have for FY26, which would be the design and survey. For the 15,000 square foot clinical research center, it'd be 3.1 million. For the third floor and remodel, it'd be uh 25,000 ft² at 4.8 million. Followed by the construction of the clinical research center at 15,000 foot in today's market at $750 a square foot for a million 11 million.2. If we were to project that at um into the 2728 market, there is a projection at 13 million.2 with a project contingency of 1.2 million. In FY28, we do have the remodel of the first and the second floor, the construction of the third floor. Um the remodel is at 10 million of the 25,000 square ft. the construction of the third floor. Um an additional 25,000 square feet at 21 million and um at the market for 2027 2028 it would be at 26 million for a total cost of 68 million 9113 thou um,000. Here's a budget breakdown as you can see in comparison from today's market to build and um the market in 2027 2028. The vast majority of this is for is for construction followed by um design and survey remodeling furniture equipment and the M costs. the furniture um I mean the equipment that you can see that we would or that we propose to have included into this expansion would include a mammogram machine as we know it's very difficult for um women in our community to access mamograms quickly as there are only certain amount of access points in Laredo for this service investing into a new x-ray machine recently we're hearing about the outbreak of active TV in Kansas and the the numerous numbers of the latent TV cases. They're in their sit in in their vicinity and we do have cases on an annual basis here in Laredo and our equipment is already dated for our TV response and this would be an investment into that. Um autoclave for the laboratory, an infectious disease analysis machine for a laboratory and generators to support those if power were to go out. And then of course going into our M costs. Our M costs um as you can see here would do include salary infringes for the additional staff, materials and supplies, contractual capital outlay and debt services which kick in in FY28, 29 and 30. This is the proposal as you can see here from this graphic. Of course, those arrows are pointing up, meaning we would build up, but they're also pointing in the north direction just to give you some context. So, um you do have the um this you have your Cedar entrance and your Maryland entrance on the graphic, but we would build up on the health department and we would add in that research building on the south side of the campus, which was formerly a webcount Head Start. That property has been returned back to the city of Laredo. The Head Start modular building has been removed as well and it is ready um for construction. And so on December 9th, the subcommittee motioned and approved to allocate 70 million from the proposed bond referendum funds to strengthen public health, which we really appreciate. And I will stand by for your questions. >> All right. Thank you. Any questions? >> Question. >> Go ahead, >> Dr. Chamberlain. Thank you. Um I understand that you've presented some statistics um in terms of needs of the community, but do you have statistics in terms of um actual number of people taking advantage of the programs that we currently offer? Are we maxed out at what we offer? Like how many people are taking advantage? Do you have estimates on how many people are projected to take advantage of the mammogram machine? You know, what's the usage going to be? How are is there going to be insurance in involved? Uh yeah, >> I can start answering those questions if you'd like me um to answer those questions for you. Yes, ma'am. Um so to start off on the insurance side, we we want everybody to know public health is for everyone. Public health isn't just for our under and uninsured populations. We have insurance, we accept insurance, and we accept self-pay. So we want the community to know to visit Laredo Public Health because we can provide that support to the best of our current resource abilities as of this moment. >> Yes, go ahead. What's the cost for the person who who would have to pay out of pocket to be able to utilize this machine if we did buy it? >> Don't have that granular data, but we can definitely get that to you. Um, of course, self-pay would be a little bit higher than insured, but we also want to be able to run a program that somewhat um plays Robin Hood to take care of our under and uninsured populations as well. So, that is in the in the discussion if this were to go through, right? um this would allow us of course some additional time to be able to um get that granular data for you to be able to provide that but we do know that there is upwards of two to three months wait time for mamograms in Laredo which you would help carve into I know Gateway just got their machine as well so they're working to bring that time interval down and if we were allowed to we would be able to get back into this and typically these machines last anywhere from 15 to 20 years >> so you don't do you have any data with you on like the other questions that I asked as far as >> so we have more than 30,000 encounters on an annual basis at Laredo Public Health and we are more than willing to expand on that, but we are also bound by the number of staff and availability and space that we currently are maxed out at the 6,000 families that we serve right now in the clinical setting. >> Mayor, if I may. >> Yes, go ahead. I think it would be helpful for us to see um you know like um that for us to see the need in those kinds of numbers as well just cuz you know we're we're we're we're facing a a big bond here right and we're going to have to I mean and I'm anticipating that we're going to have to cut some things and I just want to make sure that we have the supporting >> data for we absolutely will get that to you and as we do know we are medically underserved we are a health professional shortage area people have to leave Laredo to get basic services as as well. Um because our community is so heavily taxed, our our our ratio for family medicine is 1 to 3,251. So we want to be able to be part of that solution to at public health. So is the need here? Absolutely the need is here in Laredo for this type of expansion. >> Thank you. >> Yes. Go ahead. >> Yes. And along the same lines, the you know, because there is a as we're as you're familiar with, there's a breast cancer uh grant program that um that I believe the city and Gateway Community Health Center have both have gone for in the past. And to the best of my knowledge, Gateway Community Health Center currently has that grant program, which is for the uninsured. And so, you know, thinking about how that would, you know, impact the uninsured access to the mammograms as as was stated. Um, and then yes, we are public health and we we do I understand the idea of you um you all accepting insurance to be able to bring in some revenue because that's that's great for the city as well. Um that I did have that concern as well. And um my second question was related to one of your slides where it mentioned um a decrease of 1 to 2% diabetes rate um would save x amount of dollars and I think you stated pay for itself in four to nine years. But that that kind of implies that this building or this remodeling this expansion would lead to a reduction of diabetes by 1 to 2%. which correct I think I mean unless I'm wrong I don't know I mean >> I can explain that a little bit more >> prove that this would lead to that. Yeah. >> Yes. So with our current operation we do have one [cough] chronic disease prevention supervisor and one health educator and those individuals touch anywhere between 150 to 200 lives on an annual basis. And we've seen that 95% of those have a reduction in their A1C's. And so we would also want to see the reversal of diabetes when catching more people. So with the expansion of this building and the additional staff members that we can add through the M process, we can have a team of five, six, seven diabetes empowerment educators that are going around doing the good work of this chronic disease prevention at this facility beyond the facility touching between 400 to 800 additional lives to make that reduction as we are seeking and proposing here. >> Mayor man. >> Yes, go ahead. >> Um and to that to that point the uh diabetes being so prevalent in our community. Uh we know that UT Health Science Center or that campus I guess it's UT research education and research center now um that they're very involved in looking for research opportunities and perhaps once this uh administration decides to widen its focus um we can really look at seeing our Hispanic population and what can be done because diabetes is so prevalent. Um, I was just speaking with a a physician who was talking about how diabetes leads to so many comorbidities that are just so dramatic and expensive in our medical system, whether that's high blood pressure and resulting heart attacks and other coorbidities with related to diabetes. um the the loss of of nerve sensation and how it makes getting older riskier and and just more painful for our our elderly population. And if you can avoid diabetes, then you can preserve that quality of life as they age. And we're not talking about people who are old. We're talking about uh perhaps my generation and older uh you know getting into your 60s, your 70s when your quality of life still need should be so high. And yet if you suffer from diabetes like so much of our population does, you are at um at the mercy of what whatever healthcare you can find. And so many people do not seek health care because it perhaps it's a cultural thing um that that diminished quality of life. If the city of Laredo public health [clears throat] can do something to improve that, I think that's a tremendous uh benefit that we give to our citizens and also the savings that you get from um preventing those people from going into a very expensive medical system would benefit the city. >> So I'm glad to see >> you have a question. I'm I'm supporting his his point that looking at diabetes in that focus is something I think that will bring great benefit to our city and hoping that in the future we can look for uh opportunities to work with the UT education and research center. >> Yes ma'am. >> Go ahead. Uh Dr. Shamlin, thank you so much for the presentation. And I know there's many details. We could break down so many and we can be here all evening because and that's fine because they're important. Uh but the truth is this building was built when Laredo was half of the population that is right now. So it's it's very important. That's the idea because of the spa space and due to to the growth. So I want to thank uh the committee for bringing this this uh to us and and your presentation. uh at at the end it's going to be up to my uh colleagues opinions whether the this citywide project and the taxpayers that would the the taxpayers citywide would utilize for 100 more years would be uh uh good to to go to the referendum. Thank you. Yes, sir. >> Yes. Go ahead. >> Um Dr. Chamberlain, the building that you said that was returned to us, is it functional as it is right now? The building was removed from the property as it was a property of web county. >> But you said it was it's given back to us or no in the >> Web County owned the building. They removed it from the property. The property belongs to city of Laredo. >> Oh, but the property is like vacant right now? >> Yes, ma'am. >> Okay. So, there's enough space to construct something there. >> Yes, ma'am. >> Do you have a price just to construct something on that piece of property alone? >> Yes, ma'am. >> Do you have it broken down separately? It's right here on this slide as you can take a look. So you would see that the clinical research center design would be 3.1 million and the clinical research center depending on of course not today's market because it would happen today. So it would be 13.2 million for the actual construction >> 13.2 million to construct on the piece of property right now that's vacant >> plus the design which is 3.1. the survey and design of the land and all the engineering stuff. So totaling to about >> 16.5. >> And what would you be able to fit inside of there? Like >> so it would be our clinical services expansion and allowing for the research component to come in as we are building that right now. >> Would the mammogram machine go in there or the main building? >> The mamogram machine would go there. >> The mamogram machine and the other machine you're asking for as well. the tuberculosis one um would go into the TB clinic that we have existing right now. >> Can I have M mayor if I can ask Mr. Espat question? >> Yes, go ahead. >> Thank you, Mr. RPA. Yes. What is the impact to the taxpayer for the 70 million as proposed? If let's just say this is all we bonded out for, what does that look like? Do you have it broken down to that kind of level? Yeah, it's one it's one of the slides that I have. If I I go back to it. [snorts] So, at one uh we're looking at one cent will generate about uh 2.4 uh 2.4 million in revenues and that would finance about $40 million. And that would cost the the the the taxpayer, the average taxpayer with a $200,000 home $1.67 a month more or less. >> Correct. >> So this right here would >> get us about like you're looking at three $4 a month more or less per economic impact on the average taxpayer. More or less. >> What's the 70 million? >> No. >> She's asking for this for the 70 million. >> Yeah. just if it was at the 70 million. Um, but I can see that even if we were to approve the construction at of the new building on the piece of property and we could still move forward with some of the request even if we couldn't get the whole 70. Um, and I can see that, you know, more or less like so we can kind of see what the impact would look like. Um, >> two cents. >> Mhm. >> Just under two cents. >> Two cents more or less. Thank you for that approach, council member. Um, I would also like to kindly request for the inclusion of a remodel as our current building does not have fire suppression. It is not ADA compliant and so that would be part of the refresh, not the third floor building um because that is a bigger cost to have that, but for a potential remodel. >> Do you have that broken down here as well individually? >> Mhm. >> Yeah. >> Can we get a hard copy um Mr. AB of of of his presentation. Yes. Yes. >> Thank you, ma'am. >> All right. >> I also did send you all one just so you have >> Mayor the the way we have the uh final design is as we plug in the numbers there. We have a separate page that will give us the amount of of pennies need needed for this. So, we're trying to update some of these numbers so I can give you an actual number, an actual estimate of what that is. Do you have input from the health committee chairman? We can have some >> so I wonder um Dr. Chamberlain or do you have committee members or any committee member that was part of this? So just to give us their insight or their their opinion why they wanted you know they approved this this budget. I didn't know I was going to speak tonight, but good evening, council, mayor, city management, uh, David Cash Vasquez. For the record, I am the chair for the health and wellness subcommittee. Um, you've heard about all the work that was done uh to bring forward this proposal. It was actually uh a lot heavier. Um, and so we trimmed it down. We actually uh started with a pediatric hospital in mind um and we even brought in uh professionals from the private sector um to speak about the need uh for such a building. Um what I will say is that there's there is opportunity uh because of our medically underserved community. um the stats that you see or that were shown to you um should be reason enough to just uh push forward, right? Um we're we're beating everybody in diabetes. If you don't know somebody in Laredo that doesn't have diabetes, I'd be I'd be shocked. somebody that has hypertension, somebody that has depression, the numbers are alarming, there is a serious health issue along the border. You've got far Brownsville and Laredo leading the country in diabetes. So, we need to address this issue. Um, with poor health comes poor communities. Economically, it is a uh it's it's a stinger. When you have poor health, it equates to poor economic status. You can see it all across the country. The data, you know, men, women lie, numbers don't, and the data is telling us a story. And so when you start to get into the clinical research part, we need to find out what's happening. Culturally, there's uh, you know, there's an acceptance of our food and our drink. You know, we we're proud of it, but after a while, too much of a good thing can equal a bad thing. And so, um, to say that we didn't [clears throat] feel like this particular project with public health was important, um, I thought this is probably one of the things that really stood out the most. If you haven't been to the health department in recent years, try walking in there. And I I mean, or try will, you know, ADA access is another issue at the health department. So public health is really and I you know as you know I work for Gateway Community Health Center. We serve 34,000 patients across three counties. Um we deal in 7,000 diabetic patients on a regular basis. We deal in 120,000 visits per year. Um we almost quadruple the rate of what public health is seeing. We're inundated. They're inundated. It's there there is an issue. Um, and it doesn't matter whether you have health insurance or you don't have health insurance. You can't find a specialist. Um, or if you do find a specialist, good luck because it's going to take you a year to get in to see the gastrontologist. It's going to take you and when we talk about a specialist, those are all the nefrologists, oncologists. That's why all this money that Dr. Chamberlain was talking about is getting pumped out. It's it's an economic driver to other communities. So instead of that money staying here in Laredo, it's being pumped out to San Antonio, the valley, and points beyond. And so this is a step forward in terms of us being able to one tell our story with clinical research, two advancing the ability in services. And while we also deal in radiology and so does Laredo Medical Center and Doctor's Hospital in terms of mimography, X-ray, um ultrasound, um we also we also offer that too, but I guarantee you it will not be enough. The demand will be there. And so I u not sure if anybody else has any additional questions, but that was what came away from this um from this uh group and this committee. One of the things I did want to say or ask after working at the health department for 36 years, I've seen how the clinics impacted primary health care and we might not have all the specialists here in town, but the creation of a need for specialists is related to the lack of primary care and all the complications that follow. So, we would need much more specialists if we didn't have primary care. The health department has provided clinics that that give good primary care. I've worked in them for 36 years. Clinics that keep the population healthy. So, that is one point of view I did want to to put out here because that is I think important to me. >> And I'll agree with that, mayor. I think uh primary care is preventative care. Preventative care prevents um $5,000 bills at the emergency room. So, pay $50 now. don't pay $5,000 when it's too late. And so in terms of the e economics, we can see what impact primary care public health would have on this on this community. >> Go ahead. >> Just a couple of comments and a question. Um I know it's been put out there obviously that we [clears throat] are really up there when it comes to diabetes, right? That city Laredo is one of the highest population with diabetes. We've known that for a while now with these monies should they get approved for the $70 million. What are we talking about when it comes to prevention? Because obviously that's the point where we want to get to. We don't want to just continue having people going into clinics or doctor's offices and getting prescribed metformin, jardians, whatever else might be, right? Starting off at a low dose, getting to the highs and then there's no more help for you. Metformin can't do much for you then. So my question is should we invest these monies there? What are we going to be doing about prevention actually preventing this from happening from our children getting diabetes and then growing to have becoming adults becoming diabetic? That's what I'd like the answer to. >> I can share with you recently that I also became certified in lifestyle medicine. We have another professional um an internationally board certified physician too um that is at our um department with lifestyle medicine certifications. We do have a physician here in the community who we would be collaborating with on the lifestyle medicine journey um for the community. And so lifestyle medicine focuses on six specific pillars. and those six specific pillars, the vast majority of us do give more emphasis to nutrition and physical activity and those are definitely something that we need to be very focused on that the health department would continue to elevate and expand on. But then we would also we would also go into the journey on the prevention attacking chronic disease at root cause which include those two but also includes sleep stress management or restorative sleep stress management healthy social connections and eliminating risky substances like high concentrations of alcohol, tobacco and of course if there is any other um illicit substances. So we would work on that path by implementing a program of lifestyle medicine founded through Laredo Public Health which I can tell you that the American College of Lifestyle Medicine has already reached out to me because they're seeing that a public health department is taking this approach by injecting it into population health and not just being in the clinical setting. >> Do we have anything in place now as far as the school districts are concerned? UISD and not all ALIDs in particular because from what I see what they're feeding our children in the morning from syrup pancakes pop-tarts um cereal, they're all sugars obviously and they're going that way and that's just something that they continue doing from prek all the way through 12th grade. Do you have a program now that addresses this in particular? >> We would begin to infuse lifestyle medicine into all the different organizations. I know that LISD um I don't know if it's so ongoing but they did have the implementation of their salad bars and it's very important for us to make sure that we offer those choices. So that nutritional part with our registered dietitians at the health department would be conversations that we can have to make sure that we are able to implement those lifestyle changes early on in life to prevent these chronic diseases. >> Thank you. >> Yes, sir. >> Yes. Go ahead. [clears throat] >> Dr. chamber and I took a tour of the facility the last time. By the way, I'm Rick. I'm the new guy. Uh and um I told you that that was my neighborhood. I grew up there. When that building was built, we thought it was the uh Taj Mahal because nothing like that had ever been built anywhere around our neighborhood. And in the 70s, that used to be our playground. So, um, that a little bit. I think the most important thing to realize tonight for everybody, and by the way, thank you to the committees. Uh, you put some heavy hitters here together to to discuss and and interact with each other to try and get the best solutions for this bond election. And I thank you all for coming over here because I know that knowing some of them personally, they took this job very seriously and that is something that I do too. Um, having said that, um, throughout the night you're going to hear a theme for me that I will play a little bit of devil's advocate. We're going to do comparative analysis and then we're going to try and figure out how do we get this all these ideas together formulated into one, you know, primary goal to sell it to the public so that they can, you know, go through with this. And although all of these ideas that you just said, by the way, a side s side note, I made very clear when I was at LISD for 12 years, I was an advocate. There is nothing that we touch today, it doesn't have fructose in it. The fructose lobby is one of the biggest lobbyists in the United States. So, anything you touch has fructose in it. And so, diabetes is going to be prevalent with everything that we do. So uh but we have dietitians at LISD that made sure that our breakfast met uh the standards that the government had set forward so that we can meet the standard of minimal amount of fructose. So having said that we are coming back to the same idea. I do believe I took a tour of the building. The building was a I mean you know as old as it is it is it is staunch it is it is institutional. It is clean. It is uh it represents what the a a um I should I think welfare is a dirty word. It represents a medical facility of of the of the toughest form because it it is built for the masses. So it's a very tough building. I I do believe you're right. I mean one of the big the ADA compliance, right? I've noticed it right away. It is way underneath ADA compliant in there. So that's neither here nor there. But the comparative analysis that I'm going to make is that I'm also very aware because I visited most of the facilities for the Gateway Community Clinic. They do an outstanding job. So here we are two facilities in Laredo that fit the needs of those the underserved community, people with no insurance, uh the underprivileged and and yet we are still in dire need of more. So here comes my devil's advocate. I know that you guys are are doing your best through no fault of your own. The way this country is being run uh and the way the whole system works uh prov uh makes the system the way it is. Um did the committee uh consider the the interjections or and and bringing in the county to do part of its its job on on any of this? The committee did not discuss bringing in the county into um the public health venture. The county currently does have a public health office. It is not a public health department recognized by the state of Texas or the Texas Department of State Health Services. Um but that conversation could be entertained absolutely to be able to do more. >> And the reason that I'm asking is because there's there's a ton of money out there that they may be accessible to. And this is the devil's advocate thing that there's a lot of money that's out there that might be available for the county that we might not be privy to that we might be able to offset some of the cost in in serving those the community here in the radio for >> and I can answer that there is a lot of money that is out there available especially through HERSA funded opportunities but it is strictly for rural areas to be able to build enhance expand renovate it wouldn't be for urban areas >> does this do we consider everything under the ETJ of Laredo, Texas to be urban. >> Our current location for HHS would be an urban area. >> Okay, that's good. That answers my question right there. Um then the second part of this is because we're going to go into other departments and how to do this. U one of the other things that I know for a fact on how to pass these elections is is that the the the city and just like every every member of the committee as to these questions and we're very detailed and very focused. The underlying reason that I'm asking this is because the this the citizenry, the electorate out there, they're very smart. They they can they can see whether they'll they'll approve something like this for the sake of public health that they understand. Laredo is one of the unique places that does that. My question is to you is that given the opportunity that we move forward with this, are you prepared to go all in on passing this bond election? Absolutely. I think because of the most recent emergency response via the pandemic that we experienced here in Laredo, it put that public health into a spotlight here in our community. It did not have that spotlight before. Public health was always doing good stuff, but it wasn't in the spotlight. Now, public health has been put into the spotlight. the public is consistently looking to public health to help them with their with their needs and ultimately to help elevate and transform their lives. So riding on the coattails still of that unfortunate situation of SARS KV2 the pandemic, I believe that the community would be in support of funding that would enhance, renovate, expand the public health department >> if if in fact it does. I I would just suggest one thing that I just see that just jumps out at me on on your proposal. Equipment is one thing, furnishing is another. The it seems like it's a high figure for furnishing, but you have to explain that because I think it's it it jumps out at you on on this proposal. And and again, I'm the new guy. I have not been preview to a lot of this information. You guys started in October, so I'm trying to catch up. But just on the optics of it, the the the renovation part and all that kind of stuff sticks out very nice. I mean, it it it's right along those lines. But when you put furnishing in there, I think the public sees that and it it just it it uh fogs up everything else. They forget about why is it so much in furniture? How many chairs are they going to put in there? That type of thing. So, I don't know if we can um uh reevaluate the the the wording behind furnishing or or go into a little bit more detail. Why is it so much? And so the more detail that we take give the public as to how why we're doing these type of things, I think the people will understand. They're they're they're good people out there that probably want to help this, but they're going to want to do two things. That they're not being taken advantage of, number one, and that this city shows us stability to pay back these bonds. that there's there's there that there's not internal dysfunction enough that it'll veer away from this wonderful story that you're telling us that that it won't do anything because anything else that we're not doing here at the city is going to offset that. So, you understand what I'm saying? The focus will not be on you. It'll be on why we're not going to do it. And so, those are the type of things that we need to, I think, you know, talk about very candidly because I know that the need is there. I mean, I I I went and and did the tour with you, and it's such you guys are doing such a wonderful job, such an incredible job that I would hate to see it not happen simply because we just didn't communicate our product the right way. >> Absolutely. We'll definitely take a deeper dive. >> Go ahead. just to just to [clears throat] um just to expound on on Councilman Garcia's um comment. I was going to ask about the furniture specifically in terms of how much of that furniture is medically like specific, right? And then how much of it is just general >> and I guess having a more detailed analysis in in terms and then at the same time uh the M costs. I have a question for management. Um do we have a plan to fund this? Are we going to go out for more grants? Is this or is this going to come out of the general fund? Um what are we going to because we don't want to just, you know, I I understand the needs there. I understand that it's going to benefit the public and everything, but I I'm struggling with um because like you stated also people are hesitant to seek um help and seek medical care. So, um, you know, just because we add more programs and more facilities doesn't necessarily mean that more people will come. I could be wrong about that. I hope I'm wrong about that, but um, I just want to make sure that we can afford to fund the M costs as well. And if there's a plan for that, like we're going to go out for this grant or we're going to do this or we're going to do that. I mean, we just had a scare that some of the grants might have been cut and we were all kind of scrambling on, you know, how we were going to deal with that. So just want to make sure that we are taking all that into consideration. >> Uh Mayor Cassuza as part of the budget department as the as the discussions uh uh went through the different committees and uh with Dr. Chamberlain part of the issue that he has right now like he mentioned is that he doesn't have any more room. So, they've been aggressively applying to grants, but as he gets additional grants that come in, we we are we're we have a shortage of space to put him in there. So, it's going to be a combination of grants that are coming in and we are going to have an impact on the on the general fund. General fund funds the the what we call the grant the uh general the the operations the 2900s. So there we have been incrementing increment incrementing that amount the general fund goes to uh health benefits. So it' be a combination but primarily I think it's mostly grants that are available out there that they're seeking that we don't have the space right now to to put the staff >> mayor. >> Yes. Go ahead. >> Oh sorry you were next. You were right. >> Go ahead. >> Okay. Thank you. Um Dr. Chamberlain. Yeah. I think I met you four years ago when I was rotating through the health department as a resident at the time and uh got to meet you and Dr. Sarah and um I I got to spend a month there and see the need um that uh that you have. Um it's a very it's clear that um there's great people in there who can do great things and you see the lines of people waiting to get vaccinated. You see there's only a few primary care clinics. I'm I'm very supportive of that. I think um you know the ideas talking about this entire package as a whole um you know this will be the first one of many. I know mayor had mentioned possibly deciding them as we go but I hope at the end we can all also total see what that final number is and have a final review um before you know moving forward. Um, and just to be clear, this is the type of project that if for some reason the voters did vote it down, um, we would be able to adapt to that during the three years where we can't issue cos uh, for something like this. Um, I want to remind everybody that that even if the voters do vote any of these items down to in if we do move forward in May, we are allowed to go back to them again in November or whenever we want to. uh the next May, the next November, whenever we'd like to ask them again for the same or less of these items. We're not allowed to issue cos for three years without their permission, but we can go ask their permission again um whenever we'd like. I just want to remind everybody that look factoid. Um, and I think if we're, you know, if you look at other cities, they rarely are having to go out for bonds for for public health things because typically in most major cities, it's the county health department that's in charge of these things. You know, we're talking about McAllen. We always compare ourselves. Ilago County Health Department, Cameron County Health Department, Brownsville, Bear County Health Department in San Antonio, Tarant County uh in health department in Fort Worth, Travis County Health Department in Austin. So we El Paso County Health Department, we are very unique in the fact that we have a city of Laredo Health Department. Um and that puts an extra things of of burden on the city that we are having to uh take control. I appreciate council member Garza bringing that up. Um that's something unique to Laredo. Um and um and we we we see the numbers and how severe uh our situation is and it's and it's so much of that burden is on the city of Laredo and that's tough. Um and I nonetheless we are in that situation. Perhaps down the road that that can shift um but that's not for us to necessarily decide alone because we have a partner who we have to talk to more often about that. Um, but I do support moving forward. Uh, and because I want to also say anything that we put forward tonight to the voters at the end of the day, we're not ultimately the ones deciding whether or not it gets funded, right? It's the voters who will be the ones with the final say. Um, and also the reminder that all of this money will not be dished out at all at the same time. we'll have five to seven years to plan our budgets uh for for the M cost that come from this. Um so I'm just you know just that's my comments. Ultimately I will uh I will be I anticipate I'll be supporting um moving forward with this um for the reasons I mentioned. So >> yes, go ahead. Um there there was a suggestion that perhaps the building the standalone building could be of service and the third floor addition could wait. But as I understand it, the the standalone building will have a completely different function and really extend the ability to look at this prevalence of diabetes and other other diseases. We know that we're also the number one place for Alzheimer's unfortunately and we believe there's a connection to our Hispanic population and and those things will continue to develop and that will occur in the extra clinical services in that extra facility. So the third floor can you explain a little bit about what you envision will be happening in that third floor? The third floor would be the additional space as we do have c one, two, three different programs outside of our campus already. We absolutely believe in decentralization of services, but we also believe that we should have those services at our core facility. So, we are already we do have programs that are leasing property right now that we would bring back to the Largo public health department to be part of that third floor. And then the additional continuous work that we do for looking for state, federal and private awards and them have the ability to have a space to occupy as they are carrying out their scope of work. >> Yes ma'am. >> Just one last last thing. Uh we did mention that you you do have preliminary work or preliminary documentation that the third floor does have the stability, the structural does have the stability to get the third floor going or the second floor does have the stability to hold the third floor. >> The architectural plans that were developed in the 1960s do have the third floor. It was not constructed, but we do have a staircase in our um in our in the staircase alley that leads to nowhere because it was supposed to have a third floor. Um but it's there, but we're doing that structural assessment right now. It's out for bids so that way we can be told that we can do the third floor >> including a chase for elevator. >> Yes. >> Okay. All right. Thank you. >> All right. >> All right. Any other comments? Thank you. Thank you for your time. >> Thank you. >> Mary, just to get back to the question, the the approximate transfer that we have right now from general fund to health is about $9 million. the M that potentially we're looking at for the full 70 million as we have it in in in the plans can be about seven approximately 7 million in M cost that would be tying as the expansion continues. So um like I mentioned part of it is going to tie into how much grants we can get to help with that and the rest would be coming from the general fund side. And then and getting back to the question of the 70 million. So on the on the right on the G column there we have that if we were to finance 70 million dollars we would need uh 1.75 one penny.75 to finance this. This would have an impact about $35 annually on a on a home valued at 200 tactical value of $200,000 [snorts] and it would have about a $2.92 monthly impact on a homeowner. Um and mayor at this point I would ask um I know we plugged this in right now. Would you like me to hold on until the very end to plug in the numbers and then continue with the presentations or all the presentations and at the end come back and try to make the decisions for the amounts that we will be considering? >> Okay, you'll need to plug in the numbers so we can get it. >> I can leave it in here or I can remove it and adjust this as we go as they make the presentations. >> Mayor Mayor, I would recommend just adjusting as we go. Let's go through the entire package and we'll come back to everything at the end. Yes, I would say that. >> Yes. Go ahead. >> Items that will live as long as the the the bond. >> Yeah. I believe uh Mr. Mada has some background on that as we walk through that for the life expectancy of of each one of the items that we would be looking at. Right. >> Right. All of the line items like even with So there's the question of furniture. will that may not last 30 years. >> Yes. And you will find that information on the individual spreadsheets uh on that package on on that legal form. >> Oh, you Oh, I'm I'm so sorry. I missed that. I found it. >> Well, but it's not they're not all >> they don't Okay. [snorts] Okay. Thank you, >> Mayor. The the next one considered with the this uh category of health and wellness is uh Tina. Tina has her presentation for the Hamilton. So she can if you would like her to make that position that having those $10 million for the renovation projects I think she has. >> Yes. Go ahead. [clears throat] Good evening, Tina Martinez, community development director, [snorts] and I have here some information on the proposed renovations for the Hamilton. So, as most of you know, our Hamilton apartment complex is was built in the 1920s. It got significantly remodeled in the early 2000s and then had some improvements done in 2016. Um the need for affordable housing as you all know is great in our in our community. Currently we do uh facilitate 165 units for elderly senior housing. So um this is 60 and above. Um so just so you could have a little background on our senior population. Um, usually individuals can make anywhere from $943 uh dollars a month and this is our lowincome um elderly population. Couples we see an average about 1,400 per month. So how does that equate to our how is our housing affordable? So our Hamilton rates um you can see there are bas basically a studio size is 641, a onebedroom is 699 and a two bedroom is 808 compared to market. So if if these um tenants were to go and look for apartments at any anywhere at um similar size, you're talking about studios 795, onebedroom 950 uh 951 and two bedrooms a thousand approximately. So how much need is there out there for our senior housing uh population? So we have about 300 people um senior in waiting list all over in different programs throughout the city. Uh we have an estimated population of 24,000 seniors just residing in in in the city of Arredo. So the reasons for this funding would be to uh provide enhancements to accessibility to the building, of course, building improvements, some historical preservation, um ensure that the community continues to see this uh building um you know flourish and and continue providing the service to our community and of course the long-term stability of this unit. We would not want to lose 165 affordable housing units in our community. Um so again, um $10 million that you'll see right now broken down a little bit more is the request for some electrical upgrades, some plumbing renovations, building repairs, fire safety enhancements, accessibility and modification, some common area improvements, and some energy efficiency. Um these are just pictures of what the current state of the building is. Um there is some elevator replacements needed, some chiller ramp um um chiller and u replacements um and then entrance doors and some other um issues that would enhance the the building. These are just some more pictures. All our windows on that building are historic and they are required to m to be maintained as a wood frame. So that is very costly and that re um is a high ticket item. Um these are just pictures of some of the units that we have been able to uh or just just an idea of what how how everything looks. The the first what you see on the on the left side is the the lobby restroom and then on the right side you see a little bit of a unit. Um the way it looks not the best accessible. What we're showing you on the left is even the doorway to enter to that restroom in the lobby area is not the proper size for someone with maybe a wheelchair. So, it is kind of difficult. There is another way to get in, but again, making some ex these enhancements would really uh make a difference for this population. So, the request that we are requesting or that we're asking of you today is $10 million. We broke it down by items. These are estimates based on current pricing right now. So the faster we were able to um do some of these repairs uh and and renovations would be the best for the building. Doesn't mean that we're we we have been trying to do some um more critical items. Um of course the the AC system has been something that we've been addressing. Um we will not wait until you know um certain things pass. Um we do have an estimated timeline. If if all was approved, it would take us about 36 months to complete all of the renovations. >> The current financial um status of the building is we currently do have a $1.2 million um revenue and expenses. So, the building is self is self- sustaining and of course the repairs [snorts] would allow us to revenue uh generate additional revenue and and properly maintain the prop the property moving forward. there is a current HUD loan. So, um operations also takes the that payment back to to HUD um into consideration. Um so, again, uh why is this goal or why is this project important? It is aligning with our Viva Larredo plan. It is improving our housing quality, is enhancing community infrastructures, is promoting accessibility. So, any questions? >> Mayor. >> Yes, go ahead. >> Thank you, M. Martinez. Uh what was the impact again to the M or was there no impact? >> It's there's not an imp uh per se an impact an additional impact because currently we are um generating the revenues to um operate the building. >> Yeah. So I feel like this is like the perfect type of thing to go on a bond referendum because it has no impact to maintenance and operations. Um you know we we only had $30 million for capital improvement all of last year for the entire city. We're very rarely ever going to be able to put this $10 million out of 30 million, onethird of the entire CIP towards this project. So, this is the exact perfect type of project to to put to a bond referendum because it's it's purely just the the the renovation. >> No impact to EMO actually helps us bring in more revenue. So, this is for me the perfect type of project for us to put out there. So, thank you, >> Mayor May. >> Yes. Go ahead. >> The wood [clears throat] frame that you showed for the window right now, are are you are you do you have to answer to the historical society for anything that you do externally? >> Correct. >> And that's why you have to go to the wood frame. >> So, everything that is done at the exterior building will have to be actually also taken for u for approval to the state historical preservation. not just our local but our state historical preservation because it is a historically uh significant building there. It is in in the national registry of historical places in the arena. Does does the I just noticed um I know they did an impact study on on asbestous back in 2000. Um and I don't know if they cleared the whole building or partial of partial of building for that. Um, usually whenever it's a housing and I don't have that information, I apologize for that. But, um, any any renovations would require us to verify that all the specs was removed at that time. And if and if any, uh, impact to anything, we would take the appropriate abatement measures to address that. >> And and and you're um, again, we're trying to sell something here. So I I think the the wording again in health and wellness um can can we safely say that this is an elderly facility? [clears throat] >> It is senior is a senior um living facil uh housing unit. Um it is an assisted living. It's not assisted living but it is uh affordable housing just for senior housing. >> And and the 43 that are waiting right now, where are they at? >> They could be living on the street. So those are the applications that you have pending because you don't have the rooms available. >> Correct. Okay. >> And that's 43 that are just waiting on our on our waiting list. Throughout the community, we do see a a great need for people requiring. So they might be living on someone's couch. They might be uh living with with a family member. They might be on the street. I mean, there is so much need. >> So you're pretty much at at 50% capacity right now, more or less. >> Uh capacity. Um, all the units that are able to be rented because we do have some units that have are in need of major repair, but every unit that is able to be rented is rented. >> Okay. >> Go ahead. >> How many units do we have that that are rented out >> here? Uh, oh, there's one >> or that are available that that are that are >> not. So we do have about 20 that we have 30 that are not being rented right now because they are not able to be rented because there is um more renovated items that like we can't >> it's similar to everything we're seeing right now all that uh the construction the the piping and all that. >> Yes. There there's bigger issues than us just going in and making repairs. So it's a higher ticket price item. Yeah. >> Mayor I have a question. >> Go ahead. when it comes to this building and somebody um we have a tenant at the bottom like that's leasing out for a restaurant or whatever who gets that revenue. So the the the commercial units are the only ones that are not restricted so I can rent them at market rent. So that's actually a way to generate a little bit more revenue for the operations of the building. So the op the the the rent stays in the operations of the building. >> And are we fully rented out right now? Uh we are except for the restaurant. Uh all the other commercial units are being rented. >> How many are there? >> Um there is >> four >> four including the restaurant. >> Four including the restaurant. >> And what is the um do you have the financial like um data on on all that? Like does this this does this would this would this uh investment pay for itself over time? >> Yes. The the 1.2 includes the revenues and expenses. So it includes the revenue that we project re uh obtaining from even the commercial areas. >> Does that does that assume fully rented or >> I mean we we have a a formula to you know to to account for any um unrened months but >> thank you. >> Just one last question. >> Yeah. >> What are we getting in rent from the >> There you go. Okay. Um just um the question has have you ever considered putting the commercial end of it at the bottom? We do have seniors living in there and we have seniors living across the street or block away. Right. >> That's another facility. >> There is another facility that's not a city facility. That's a housing of uh the L housing authorities. But yes, that is also senior. I'm wondering, I'm just thinking out loud, but just and you don't have to answer this today, but if if we ever considered putting some sort of substation, medical substation at the bottom, uh uh that that might be able to [snorts] provide services instead of having these people go to their medical appointments or or um uh they're unable to go that they might have some access there that somebody will be willing to uh whether it be uh government sponsored or whoever. So the commercial sprees can be uh again when a vacancy comes available we we can um entertain any commercial uh entity. So if um any services can be provided there that can be a possibility. I know we do work with the health departments and we do ask them to come and do some information. Our lobby is pretty big, so we do u work with them in that and other of our housing units to to just promote any any programs that they have or sometimes just some wellness checks. Yes, we can do that and we have done it in the past. >> What what impact would uh the city being the owner would have for the city? Maybe Mr. Noa, is he here? No, I don't have no Oh, there he is over there. No, I know with the Australian hosting company. >> Thank you. >> Uh we're now a string of hosa. We we were bought out. So thank you Lauro for giving us the opportunity to come before you and Mr. Garson. I look forward to working with you. It's good to see your face >> on this side on the DAS. >> Uh the question is what impact would it have on the city? Uh I I think I I want you to appreciate this that if you have assets that need restoration, repairs, uh those are inevitable actions that you have to make. Whether you want to make them or not make them, you want to invest in them. If you put this through a bond referendum and if you were to fail, then you're going to be handcuffed and then you can't improve it and you know you have to do it. So very likely like we've done with other enterprises when we do landfills or other projects and uh and you know you have to do them or else you you're going to be violating codes or whatever. Um you look very closely at the operations. I like what I heard that they're making money, right? So, if we go out and finance $10 million apart from general [clears throat and snorts] obligation bonds for voter approved bonds, because that's something you have to do, maybe we can work towards making them even more productive and attractive. the fact that she's renting uh some of this space to commercial to commercial tenants. We'll have to work with bond council to make sure that we're not violating IRS rules, but I know we can overcome those, that we do the financing on a taxable basis. I don't have to bore you through that. But what's important in the context of what should be in a bond referendum, I would consider this as an exceptional project that you need to do separate and apart because if you were to fail, then you're going to put them in a in a bind that um and you you have to be open-minded, right? But if you feel like you can pass them, then it's great. We'll go out there and pass them and and so on so forth. >> All right. Yes. Go ahead. >> Thank you, Mr. Nosa. So, >> yeah. Are you saying to do it [clears throat] in a separate totally separate referendum or >> No, no, no. You would do a certificate of obligation just like we've done with other enterprises. >> But last year, you know, when during budget >> Mhm. >> we had 30 million for the whole year. >> Yes. I think it'd be pretty hard to find a single year where all five out of nine of us would agree to put 10 out of 30 million of cos to >> I think you you heard half of my story or or let me say this to you when I give you capacity that has to be supported by property taxes right here [snorts] you have a project that is generating revenue >> okay we need to find out how much revenue can we increase that revenue Right? So if we can increase that revenue, then we can pay for the mortgage on that obligation being issued for the for her benefit for the benefit of this enterprise. On the other hand, if you take it on the other side, you don't need to do M improvements because you're doing very well on the MO side. But if you go out and do a referendum, okay, >> and you have to include them and you fail, then you're going to put yourself in a >> Okay. So you're not talking about general fund CIP. You're talking about her as an enterprise fund. Okay. >> On a self-supporting basis. >> Okay. Got you. >> Mayor, can I ask a question to that? >> So, Mr. Inosa, >> yes. >> It's good to see you also. >> Good to see you, too. >> Um, >> congratulations. >> Thank you. So, in terms of uh this project is kind of separate from some of the other ones included in the in the bond referendum package because it um is its own enterprise essentially, right? Is what you're saying. So do we have bonding capacity to bond out for the 10 million for this project alone? >> I cannot tell you that today. I will have to do an assessment of that separately. A lot of times cities will determine from a policy perspective whether they want to go out and and endorse this on a tax supported basis or 50/50 or no, you have to go generate your own revenues. We'll endorse you. We'll both sign with you. But we expect you just like we expect enterprises that we have today that we support but they support themselves. Like we fund airport, we fund our metro, [clears throat] we fund landfill, we do some water and sewer stuff. We make sure that those enterprises are generating enough revenues to pay all of their debt including cos, >> right? So what we need to do with them is just dive into their income statement and find out exactly where where they're doing well, where they're not with the objective to make them self supported. >> Have we ever done that for this um facility in the past? >> Never have. >> Never have. Never have. >> No, I haven't never been asked. >> So mayor and city council for perspective on this building, if you remember last year with the Hamilton Hotel, it was not under our responsibility. We had a housing authority that that we appointed the members to. It got into trouble with not getting things fixed. Not not getting at all. The the uh the authority decided to say take the building back. Let us get out of the way so that the city can survive it. If you remember, all of the citizens that some of our people that lived there came in saying uh they were trying to bring up the rates of the the rent and everything and because they are affordable housing that we ran into a lot of difficulty with that. And so just want to make sure for those of you that weren't on the council at the time when we had that conversation, that's why it's here in front of us today is that it needs $10 million worth of repair that we did not have underneath our umbrella in order to eat the elephant in a different way. >> Mayor F. Yes. Go ahead. >> Uh, so Mr. Nev, it's my understanding that, you know, we're going through this workshop. We're going to get the recommendations and and we're still going to have to fi vote on it in February, right? We we're not finalizing the >> we are not finalizing tonight. No, the the idea here is to walk all the way through all the work that the bond referendum committee did, every everything and pull it all together to start taking the things out that that you would like to have out and and coming down to a very defined uh proposition that will go forward for May and we have until February 14th to get >> and even if we theoretically didn't, you know, compress it down, we could compress it down. We would have to get the final package voted on before the 14th or by the 14th. Correct. >> For the May election, right? But and I think that Dr. King and mentioned that, Council Member King mentioned that as well too. It doesn't stop us from doing another one. Uh our whole our whole concept of this thing is to build a model that will work and then go out just like our the other cities do and and ask for help. >> Oh. So, mayor. >> Yes. Go ahead. So is it possible that we could get this financial work done on this structure on this building alone like Mr. Inosa was talking about >> to consider mean maybe it wouldn't need to go as part of the referendum package if it could qualify for the repairs on its own separate you know >> and mayor and city council we've been working with the Hamilton Hotel for a while so has Mr. Henohosa uh because we had looked at providing it to another entity in order to manage it and and maintain it as their asset. We couldn't come to terms last year. They still have some interest in there, but we have we have all the repairs that we have to make and that's why we're there. So, I I would say yes. I think we can get to the information because none of us are we've been involved in this building for a little while because you guys looked at it as we were looking at trying to sell it to somebody to utilize for affordable housing. It's just putting that it's really looking at exactly what you're asking for and putting it that information together. That wouldn't take long. >> And I'm being corrected by council here that my impression is that we do have a hot note right? >> Yes, sir. So that's we owe money to the federal government. And my impression was, okay, if I need to improve $10 million, I'll go back to HUD. I don't need general obligation bonds. I don't even need CEOs. I can go do a note with them. But what I'm being told is that maybe we cannot go back to HUD. we'd rather go out and get the GO authority so that if in fact HUD denies >> lending you that money that then you go to the voters >> and you sell a GO bond for their benefit. >> So we're kind of acting real quick. So I go back now to the fact that you may want to have it on the border referendum so that even if it fails even if it fails on the which is what I was saying if it fails then you can go to HUD and say okay let's go and do a note because if it fails you're only prohibited to issue CS >> that's correct >> okay >> not notes so I was just telling the counselor here >> a lot of counselors play with this stuff and they can make your life a little bit >> and so mayor going back to what Mayor Pro Tim had that I think putting that information would be together. Uh, you know, our recommendation would be to try to correct this issue as we bring it in there. It's a very important building for us and, uh, and I think those families would appreciate that as well, too. So, I I go back and I'll tell you, and I'm the first one to tell you, let's get it on the referendum because I think it'll make sense for a variety of reasons. They have nothing to do between GL's and and CL's. And if it fails, if it fails, maybe we'll go to the HUD and say, "We tried it and we got to fix it through this note." And now doesn't. So, thank you for >> All right. >> Thank you, Mayor. Mayor. >> Yes. Go ahead. >> I I have a couple questions. Um, >> were any other affordable housing projects considered in terms of developing um new affordable housing units? >> Yeah. And mayor, to answer the council member's question, no, we did not look at any other affordable housing because we had this one on there and because it is such a consolidated large amount, we stayed with operating with because we knew we were we were bringing it back in. The authority is still dissolving. It takes a takes a little time to walk through HUD for that as well too. And so so the whole nature of this thing was that this was the one that we knew we had people in today >> and that and that was why we didn't look at a lot of others for that. >> Well just there there there is a need to expand our affordable housing units. We and this would just the same residents would stay in the same so we're not >> well aside from the this the what is it 30 rooms that council member I I think so we have we we do have about 600 affordable housing how affordable and obtainable housing already in our in our [snorts] operating system. They are not in this need of repairs like So even so the issue is that if we do not act now we will lose 165 units of affordable housing >> right on top of the already the the growing needs. >> And if I could mayor what the council member is is asking though is that if we would have looked at it in a larger fashion because of new affordable housing because we have 600 and some odd units we probably should have more for a population our size. when I just I just find it very disappointing to see parks and recreation at 80 million and not even looking at affordable housing at on a grander scale and that that is a need more than all the other everything else. Yes, ma'am. Um it well in ter you know I know parks needs their needs there too but when it comes to priorities and >> yes and and the nature the nature of all of these activities and these projects that have made it on there they were in conversations at council at one point or another. I think some of the ones that were adjusted in the parks and recreation came from a conversation in in on Monday as well too. So, uh, again, this is going to the voters for a request saying, "Can you support something of this nature?" Um, and I don't disagree with her. Uh, councilwoman is very u very correct that affordable housing we need to do a lot better with. And that is one of my priorities as [snorts] well too. It was just for this bond referendum. This is how we got why we got to where we're at today. >> All right. >> I don't disagree. >> Yes. Go ahead. >> Thank you. Um so so we just heard on two occasions right now um and and thank you for the enlightening us um on on this issue. Very important for me for me personally may maybe not everybody else but [snorts] you just had two separate occasions where the whatif was brought up. Um, and I think that's that's very important from this point on with everything else that we're discussing that if if um if we don't have it in mind that this bond referendum doesn't pass, what are we going to do? And I think that that that part of the information that should come before February 14th, you know, that we need to have this doesn't pass, we have this other option. And because that makes it easier for us to determine whether or not the other the other items that we're looking at might not have any other uh any other you know choice other than this. [cough] So if if we can this will eliminate and and separate and I just ranked everything right now from for myself because you have options other than this and some [clears throat] other issues might not have. So it might be a good idea to break it down into okay if this doesn't happen. We have this and and it'll just I mean it's all coming together today right about how what but if we don't have those options we have no other choice than to go forward and move forward with this and we don't hear about those other options and we're like we're going to go in this blindly and and we might get caught off guard. So if in February you can bring that break it down into those things it'll make it a lot easier for for me at least. and mayor and I I and council member I think that was the intent was is rather than to do a lot of whiffs whatifs for everything once we get you narrowed down and you say these are the the priority ones we'll be able to get you that information very quickly. Okay. >> We have been working on it. >> Okay. >> All right. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Appreciate it. >> [snorts] >> U mayor the next uh department that we have is the paving program which is the public infrastructure. Mr. Rammon Chavez will be doing that presentation for you all. >> All right. [clears throat] Yeah. Honorable mayor, members of city council, Roman Chavez, assistant city manager. For the record, um, as part of the original packages, you were supposed to have this presentation. Uh, we don't have it in front of you. I have copies here for everybody. So, uh, I don't think it's Okay. Hello. [clears throat] May I continue? May >> afternoon. >> Okay. Um, and thank you again uh for having us here uh this evening. Uh and before I start, I'd like to uh first of all thank the bond referendum main committee uh members uh for their commitment to our community uh and also in particular uh the members of the public infrastructure subcommittee uh which I see our our chairman, our vice chair and our secretary in the audience. So that uh means a lot uh for them to be here present. Uh tonight uh we will be discussing uh the proposed pavement maintenance and preservation program over the next years and that's a presentation that you have uh here before you. First of all just to give some general information uh our city consists of approximately 856 miles. Uh I know we always talk about uh that number uh in the 900 miles uh which approximately 86% uh are residential roads. Uh from there you can see on the screen we have a map an interactive map that is available to the public through our open uh portal. >> Yes. Go ahead. >> Question Mr. Travis. I'm sorry to interrupt. When you're talking about the 856 miles, we know that there are a lot of textile roads. Are those roads included in this plan? >> Uh mayor, uh if I may, no, they are not included. Uh we're only talking about uh city uh roads. >> Okay. So, um 359 Clark right now until it changes all of that anything that's text is not included in these. >> That is correct. Yes, that is that information is not included. So, um if I may continue. So, uh, the slide that I was showing a little while ago is an interactive map based on a study that was conducted in 2019 where the public through our open data portal uh, is able to see uh, what the con pavement condition index is. You're you're going to hear me say a lot PCI this evening and that is our our pavement condition index. Okay. uh which uh is a rating system uh for the condition or the general condition of uh payment roadway systems. Okay. So uh when I when you hear the word PCI that's that's what we will be referring to. Let's see if I can escape from here. So again uh in 2019 our average PCI was 73.2 and I will get a little bit more into uh that uh number uh on our next slide. Um, based on information that we received on on that report, uh, given a $4 million budget scenario, which is very close, uh, to the average the public works receives uh, or has received over the last uh, years. Uh, with that being said, uh, currently uh, we estimate our 2024 average PCI to be 61.80. 80. Okay, which has dropped uh significantly over these these last couple of years based on the information that we have on that report with a $4 million budget. Next, uh we have again a the payment maintenance and preservation program. Okay. and the preserate preventive maintenance techniques uh that currently exist uh to preserve our pavement infrastructure. Uh the PCI number is based uh it's from it goes from 0 to 100 and if [snorts] you can see there on the different categories uh based on the PCI number uh the street is classified either as serious condition, poor condition, fair, satisfactory or good. Under there we have the estimated number of miles that exist through our our city. And below that is the different types of maintenance techniques uh that are recommended uh for each individual under each individual category whether it be uh crack sealing which is at an early stage uh microsurface or slurry seal milling and overlay which is uh uh a common practice right now reconstruction uh where we have to go into the base repair or major reconstruction from there. Uh, if you can see on the, um, information underneath, the longer you take to, um, maintain a street, the more it's going to cost you. So, looking at residential streets, and these are, uh, numbers that we calculated uh, per mile a pres uh, under preservation, you may preserve a residential a one mile of residential street for $68,000. uh an arterial road uh for close to $200,000 and industrial one for $150,000. Uh and the difference between the arterial and the industrial is that they're they're uh an industrial street is narrower than arterial. So that's why the cost there. Uh as you move on, the cost keep increasing. Uh if you go into the milling and overlaying which starts going into a re rehabilitation or major reconstruction which can run from 1.4 million and all the way to $4.2 million per mile uh if you're looking at a concrete uh industrial roadway >> yes go ahead question >> just Mr. Mr. Chavez, if you could go back to that slide just to right now generally what our public works team is doing is the milling and overlay current >> that is the the current uh practice. >> Okay. For pretty much >> Yes. >> Okay. Thanks. >> We have uh recently and and again uh uh I want to thank my staff and public works uh which we have been working in coordination throughout this process with the committees uh and presenting some of this. [clears throat] So um our recommendation is is to allocate $30 million of which um it is recommended that 30% of that go into preservation and 70% go into uh rehabilitation. So from there our estimates uh for example in 2024 with current prices we could be able to u preserve and maintain and rehabilitate or reconstruct up to 83 miles of roadway with that amount of money and subsequently uh the years after that uh will increase or rather uh start increasing there. So, uh, funding, right? And what do other cities, uh, do as well? So, I did some, uh, compressional analysis, uh, with our staff, uh, and we looked, uh, at what we do, for example, uh, in our in our city, which we we do between 4 million and $5 million annually, approximately. Um, city of San Antonio, which of course is a it's a bigger city, they have 4,200 miles of center uh, mile roadways. uh they they annually uh um do 90 millions uh that they allocate for funding and they bond 20. City of El Paso which has,00 miles of of roadway uh they allocate $10 million annually. and city of Corpus Christi which was which has 2100 miles uh they went out on a bond referendum in November and they passed a bond of 89.5 million uh for uh roadway improvements, drainage and sidewalks. >> That is my presentation there. >> Yes. Go ahead. >> Um Mr. Thomas, if you go back to the previous slide if you don't mind. Um, and you mentioned that the city's does 5 million annually, but that's only been for the last three years. Three, four, four years, right? >> You're talking about our city. >> Our Yeah, we've only been doing that 5 million annually. >> Yes. >> And it's even hard for to get through all of that. But, um, so just to be clear, it's like this is a very recent thing because we were there were years where we didn't even have uh basically any money for paving whatsoever. Correct. So, we're >> extra behind in that. And um I printed off for my or I asked my assistant to print off for my colleagues city of San Antonio's 2022 2027 um bond uh package. And they've been doing a bond every 5 years since 2007. They do 2007 to 12, 2012 to 17, 2012 to 22, and now they're in the middle of implementing their 2022 to 27 bond package that was passed by their voters in May of 2022. And if you look through their uh streets, bridges, and sidewalks committee uh final list of projects, um and of course I understand they're significantly larger, right? Um you know, four um $477 million towards um towards streets, bridges, and sidewalks. And in each of their districts, they allocate approximately 7 to 11 million uh of streets reconstruction. And I think that's the main thing is this is about, you know, reconstructing roads, not just what we're currently doing, you know, um, you know, with, um, the milling and overlay, which that's important, but there's a lot of these roads like Delmare that council Guutieres and I share and and and council member Perez um that a lot of those completely just need to be reconstructed all together because I know the argument out there is why would we go out for a $20 million bond for something that's only going to last five to seven years because that's where a lot of our roads do last, but that's because we're not funding enough to do the actual reconstructing of these roads. So, um just arguing in favor of more of the reconstructing re rehabilitating because that's like you said so much more costly because we've waited so long to address some of those issues. So, >> is sorry. If I may, mayor, I'd like to just uh go over uh the motion that the public infrastructure subcommittee uh made. It was uh as part of all this process uh they made a motion to ask city council for a charter revision amended at the next charter election ballot for 5% of property taxes collected to be designated for street paving and add 30 million on this year's bond referendum pending public works for streets paving as amended. >> All right, >> Mayor Manning. >> Yes, go ahead. >> Um Mr. Tra is just uh comparing ourselves to San Antonio. I don't know um in this presentation you do not have the streets designated specifically and in the San Antonio comparison that we received every street is laid out. Um [clears throat] it's also aligned to council districts but it talks about the amount of money and also the exact street that will be repaired. And I think they do that as a measure of accountability because if you're going to put so much millions of dollars, then you can go back and say, "Well, did you actually do these streets?" Do we have that? Do we have a list of streets that have already been targeted if the 30 million were to go through that you would be able to say from, you know, X block on Conquered Hills Boulevard to I just got paid, but X block on Conquered Hills Boulevard to X block will be uh will be repaved, rebuilt. Understanding you've got the map. So, do you have the monies allocated to these specific roads already? >> We we don't have the money uh allocated. Again, public works gets uh as understand between receives between four and 5 million annually. >> No, I'm talking about for the proposed bond, >> right? We do have a list. Yes, we have all all these streets that you see on the map, >> they're on a list that we have with the current uh condition of each street. So that that list would be part of the analysis moving forward. And and you are right when I looked at other cities uh which will be something uh moving forward uh uh as as we proceed where uh on the actual ballot they list all the streets. They list all the streets and that won't be a problem for us at all because all that data we have available. Uh >> I think it's an important part. It'll it's an important part of of being able to convince the public that there is a need and that there is a measure of accountability so that when we go and we ask them for this money that they can see where their money is being spent if we're tying it directly to streets that coincide with this analysis that you've already done. >> Of course and and that would definitely not that won't be a problem. It will be part of the analysis and and I would recommend that that we do as such. >> Thank you. Is there a possibility that we can do just like my colleagues that um my colleague Tro said that we can get a you know a similar as we can see break it down through council and district see which which areas being more affected I know some areas especially in the mines road areas there there's a lot a lot more traffic coming in coming out you know if we can work in you know around McPerson Delmare which some of them have high traffic Uh, can we get that, you know, breaking broken down into two districts just like this? I don't know if you can give you a copy and show you. And so, like, uh, Miss Gar says, so we can show the the public >> what where where we're spending our money. Uh, where are we spending our money and where our um, you know, where where we're going to be more concentrated in putting uh this this monies to. >> Most definitely that that is something that that we can do. Uh, one of the things that I will state a as as you move on and and proceed into that process, you get into a deeper analysis, right, to where right now we're estimating. We're estimating based on the conditions uh not only of the report, but a visual inspection. And so, you will only get too far, but you would be we would be very accurate. But once you start getting into a deep analysis into details, we may be able to reduce that amount, right? based on on that same analysis so that we can uh get more for our money. Of course, >> yes, go ahead, please. >> Um just a couple of questions, Mr. Chavez. >> First of all, public works does a phenomenal job when it comes to specifically with the money that they get yearly, you know, five4 to5 million a year. >> They do. >> But when it comes to materials, it's become a problem and you all know about this as well. So if we can't a we're not able to get so much material when we're investing investing4 to5 million a year what are we going to do as far as supply chain is concerning concerning the asphalt itself because some suppliers that we have now simply can't keep up with our demand and I've heard that it takes months sometimes to get it because our state has been taken over and of course their projects are way larger than ours are so I understand that but what are we going to do as far as that's concerned or is the $30 million just going to be sitting there and I know public works does what they can with the material, the crews they have and their and and their equipment. But what are we going to do if this should pass and we don't have the material? And >> in my opinion, it's going to have to be part of the scheduling. It's going to have to be a strong schedule to we where we ahead of time allocate and make sure that we have those materials available. >> Allocate I'm sorry, just a followup. Yeah. So, will we have different companies able to supply us with asphalt should we need it or is there only one supplier available here on the radar? >> No, there's there's a couple of suppliers. Uh I don't know if Mr. Orila maybe uh can ask he's the one that purchases these materials uh and maybe he can uh elaborate a little bit more on that uh information as far as that is concerned. >> Thank you, >> Mr. Ofa. Mayor, members of the commission, John Roa, for the record, keep in mind that the majority of it is not going to be asphalt. Again, these 30 million uh we need to well, the city really needs help is in our uh our golden goose, which is our industrial parts would provide some money to the city. Our industrial park that's we want to invest in concrete. As far as concrete, we have several uh uh back then we were in danger as far as concrete companies, but now we there's more than one, two, three, four, five of them now. And there's more coming. I know cuz they all most of them go to my office. >> So the majority is going to be concrete. Asphalt is not a problem. >> Yes, sometimes the plant does break down. Sometimes it rains and the material is too wet. But uh while that's happening, we're milling by the time it dries up, you know, we we move. So >> do we have another supplier on chain? >> There is one that's a mile marker uh 15 16 on the other side of Unitech. >> Okay. >> Um >> that's our main supplier or that's our secondary? That's our secondary. >> Okay. >> Again, we try and stick to the local one here closer because again, by the track by the time the truck goes all the way to 18 and we're paving in South, you know, we're not going to get much done. >> We did that years ago. Uh, and again, the trucks, the wear and tear on them. >> So, with these initial $30 million, should they be invested, then you're looking at doing more industrial roads? >> More industrial. Yes. That's where I need to help. I think the city I'll compare the city of Lao to any city in Texas as far as our city streets at very good condition. >> Oh yeah, absolutely. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Yes. Go ahead. >> I just wanted to say on Mr. is do you anticipate um you know if this were to pass what percent of this money would be you know implemented with road uh construction reimprovements uh by public works versus bidding out projects because as it is public works you know with limited with the staff that it has right >> can the five million is that we currently allocate for it is pushing it for them to be able to get that finished with with with our current staff. So, right, >> I imagine we would also we would need to be bidding out these projects. >> Yes. Uh so, um we've had brief conversations with public works and they've been a part of of of this uh throughout the process. We've met with a couple of contractors uh moving forward uh getting some prices and keep in mind that the prices that the unit cost that that we show here uh on this slide, these are contractors prices. Okay, these are contractors. So uh I feel it would have to be a combination uh between uh uh the majority of the percentage perhaps uh um outsourcing it but public works being still part of it. Yes. A combination of >> Yeah. Yeah. Um Mr. Travis, uh, there's a couple of things that I want to talk to you about on the PCI, the the drop in five years. Um, and and compared to the map that you have, uh, there's certain specs in there of new development that are are are uh deteriorating at a faster rate, >> for lack of a better word. Um that is one of my concerns about um [clears throat] you know we are going to repave some of the streets as as uh as uh Mr. Rila said and industrial more industrial work. Uh my concern is that some of this money is just going to go to areas that have a high uh deterioration rate over a period of time. when you go into this bond series, you you have to do you have to be thinking in terms of uh the ultimate or the end result in terms of years in payback. So, if we're not going to have a life expectancy uh where we go from satisfactory to poor to a 41 to 55 PSI PCI, then um we certainly I think should consider that doing our part as a city that we might have to change some of the specifications when we go into new construction and new areas, right? And it's it's kind of a dirty it's kind of a bad word to say right now, right? But there's got to be a way that we can start thinking ahead that we don't have to put so much stress on our public works department and and getting some of those things done when we know it's going to happen. >> And and so the idea when you go to bonds is to make sure that the quality and the life expectancy of what you're going to get is going to meet the the time demand that in paying back those things. So in that consideration and doing all of these type of things, I noticed that the and and this this town is divided into different areas. Some are of high clay concentration uh that there's other engineering tactics that you need to do in order for them to get it done. This I think will be a golden opportunity for us to say, okay, this we're going to go out to tell the public to give us money to redo this, but we need to do it right this next time around. Uh so my question is uh in some of these areas that are not meeting the threshold of of deteriorating at a faster rate um would you say it was a lot of it had to do with engineering quality control or is it just the the engineering specifications quality control or just wear and tear? Uh it could be wear and tear, but what we are um identifying here on the on some of the recent construction uh is the types of soils and also irrigation systems. And that's something [cough and clears throat] that deteriorates our streets um in a faster way. And our public works has been doing a great job on on for example when there's irrigation issues, when there's a issues with irrigation, they'll install a French drain. And you can see the next day the the difference on and what those things are. We uh are moving forward uh with an amendment to our subdivision ordinance that you will probably be seeing here soon. Okay. And with some recommendations that we have already been looking at. >> So So and then that's where I was getting to. Whenever we do something like this, it's just not we we've already identified the problem. You just mentioned it right now. We've already identified the cure for that problem. But it's got to be have to be taken in baby steps to get people used to this type of thinking because I know that there's everybody's going to take a hit after that more the increase in in development cost is going to be passed over to to the people that are buying the lots. So, and I get that, but I think long term it'll it'll it'll bring down the cost of of us going out there and having to repave and repave and repave and and we just never catch up. >> So, that's that's the point that I'm trying to make. And I think the the the uh the uh integrating this plan into into your day-to-day operations is going to be crucial. But remember, we have to also take into consideration a lot of things instead of just implementing on a one day or another and that the trips fall where they may. And just one comment uh if I may, mayor, in in 2017 uh just so that uh everybody uh understands uh there was an amendment to the ordinance uh to reduce our our pavement standards. So that's something that uh I have already I'm sorry. >> Yeah, that goes under quality control now. See? >> Yeah. Yeah. So that was that that uh was passed by council in 2017. Uh so I already mentioned some of that uh to our city manager and our team. uh again and we've received direction to >> [laughter] >> uh re-evaluate that to bring it back so that uh council can uh uh also have that uh information. >> Thank you, >> Mayor. >> All right. Go ahead, [clears throat] >> Mr. Chavez. In uh the presentation is very comprehensive and I'm very glad to hear that you're looking at increasing those standards. I know um I've had discussions with Mr. for Fila for some of the neighborhoods, some of the new neighborhoods where you see streets that are failing and >> it it is the people that end up suffering, right? The people who bought the houses that have issues now with their neighborhood streets. Um, but I'm wondering is is do you think that by May you would be able to have this street by street designation and the amount of money that it would cost laid out for the voters to see or do you think that this is something that should be brought perhaps in November so that all of this information can be collected that the the streets will know exactly how well not exactly but more or less how much it will cost to replace them and then that can be included so that there's a very transparent um view for the public to see this bond money is to repave these streets and there is a need there and we need your help to get it done. >> Yes. >> No, those those estimates uh can be prepared by May without any any problem. >> And and mayor and city council, I would say that we need to have them prepared before the February date. Even for the May, if we've moved to November, it still needs to be prepared out. And I and in my mind I think that's that needs to be part of the whole conversation after we set the question. >> I think >> I think uh he needs to be prepared by next week by when you call the >> That's what I thought too. >> Yes. Thank you very much. >> Thank you. No, thank you. >> City manager and Mr. Henosa are in agreement. [laughter] >> Yes. No, no pressure. >> Yeah. Go ahead, >> Mayor. terms of um Thank you, mayor. Uh so, some of the concerns come to my mind when it comes to like investing so much money in to our streets. Um you know, it's we're [snorts] asking today's residents to fund um lack of investment for a better word over the years from the past. And we're doing that with water as well, our infrastructure. We're doing that in a lot of other areas. And so I understand that we're trying to be ambitious and we're trying to correct deficiencies from the past and everything, but all of this is going to have a cost for the people. And so we have to be mindful of that and what they can afford, right? Um the concern I have with uh focusing on the streets is that we're also trying to focus on what's under the street, which is the which are the water pipes, right? And we don't want to shoot oursel in the foot where, you know, I think that this program needs to be in tandem with our water pipe replacement program because we don't want to resurface a street that we're going to later have to tear up to fix the pipe. And then at the same time, we've been experiencing increased a lot of water water breaks. So, we don't want to resurface the streets and then, you know, we continue with this high rate of water lines breaking and then we have to go tear it up and finding contamination sources and and all of these things. Um, you know, we don't want the streets to be beautiful and then there's a problem underneath. So, we don't want to be disillusioned with that. Um, in terms of the overweights or in terms of the industrial areas, I do like that we're talking about adding more concrete because I do believe that if we get that formula correct, it would end up being a like an investment because we are spending money for um maintenance because the uh initial streets that are constructed are not uh adequately um able to handle the traffic that we have. We have the problem with trucks that are overweight on our streets that are not in the overweight corridors which are also tearing up our streets at a higher rate. And then at the same time, we have the irrigation issues in the industrial parks that are also adding to the wear and tear. So, if we're still going to have the irrigation issues and people not, you know, um people like it's hard for us to keep up with enforcement on all of these things. If we're still going to have that on our newly beautiful resurfaced streets, then it's I don't like the idea of throwing money to fix problems that you're not really getting down to the root of the problem. Um and so I think that um we have a lot of trucks in in residential areas as well which are also adding to the wear and tear and you know we're the largest port and we brag about that but we that comes with problems and fixing and resurfacing the streets is a nice initiative but if we're not taking care of what's causing the damage then we're always going to be playing catchup. And I don't like the idea of asking the taxpayers to pay for resurfacing without having a plan for um making sure that we when that street is fixed, it's going to stay fixed for as long as possible. So, do we have data in on in terms of how much money we would save from maintenance over time if we were to invest the concrete into these new industrial parks now? because I think that number for me would be very palatable and I think that that would show um a way that this would pay for itself. Um, and then, uh, I'd like to see how we plan to tackle the irrigation problems and how we plan to tackle keeping the trucks out of the residential areas. And also to see the water replacement plan in tandem with the street repaving plan >> so that we understand and the voters understand, look, these are the streets that are, you know, on the far right spectrum of this highly critical, like very, very neglected. We need to finish and fix these first. At the same time, you know, within the next few years, we're going to be replacing these pipes on these streets. So, we're gonna resurface those later. Kind of I mean, I think we need to be very organized and coordinated here because I don't want us to just throw money >> at good faith illusions, right? We need to make sure that um we're being smart about the money that we're asking for and that we have good plans for them. And right now I see a lot of conceptual theoretical or or good like needs but um the departments have to kind of coordinate on these asks a little better. >> Mayor thank you mayor promp for for those comments. Um and uh and that's an excellent point. Um, and I feel uh from our end it'd be irresponsible if if we don't uh do that analysis uh because we we'd be throwing u our money away pretty much. And so that coordination already occurs uh between public works, utilities and other companies uh to understand and so that they know that before we do an improvement, we want to make sure that you have good infrastructure underneath so that we don't get into these issues cuz that in my opinion be it'd be responsible. But that's coordination that it's already happening between public works and and other utilities and and we would definitely have that. We we've received a preliminary uh plan from uh our executive director of utilities where we're looking at the all that information of which lines are going to be replaced so that also we can consider that. >> Go ahead. >> Can you transfer that knowledge to us so that we can see it cuz I I think it would be helpful for us if we're going to talk about like listing out the streets that need it. It would also be helpful for us to see >> the clan, the plan, the bigger picture so we can understand like, you know, that we can feel comfortable advocating for this and we and it's not just going to be money that's going to like we're going to repave a street and it's going to get torn up in a year or >> Yes. >> You know, we have a a good plan because we do have the water issue. >> Yes. >> Yes. Go ahead. Um, I completely agree with um, Council Member Pettis's concerns um, and making sure that we are addressing um, all the issues that cause our roads um, to be so easily destroyed so quickly. Um, I do want to just remind everybody that if you know and I'm open I I've heard there's ideas of, you know, I've heard the idea of maybe we should, you know, pushing this back to November until we're all ready. I do want to also say even if we do it in May, we do it in November of this year, May of next year. No, well, you don't want to do it in middle of a regular election. But um the point is the money doesn't just the money doesn't come out the door. It takes two, three years sometimes for a lot of this money to actually get out the door as a lot of us know with some of these projects. So, you know, just thinking about it, we would still have, you know, time to, you know, make sure that because we're still going to have the final say on how this money gets thrown out the door, right? Once and once this if there were to this were to get passed, this just gives us the permission to do this much. It doesn't mean we have to end up doing this much. So, we still have all the control about how and when and if this money even gets bonded out. So, I just want to remind everybody that this is the beginning of a very very long-term conversation over these next five to seven years. If if this were to go through and pass in May, just >> Mayor Mercel mayor, if I may address Council Vanessa's comments, you mentioned um us resurfacing streets that possibly have a lot of line breaks. If I would to stop paving those streets that are heavily been bombarded due to line breaks. And again, the last time we had an aggressive um infrastructure replacement as far as water and sewer, that was back in [clears throat] 2014 15 when it stopped. Imagine if I stopped paving all those streets are bombarded. I mean, so again, not till we have that program going strong. You tell me I'm uh for example, uh I'm going to use market. I resurfaced that back in 2007, 2006, 2007 or eight. If I don't resurface it like I have been in sections, imagine how that roadway is going to be for cops ambulances uh heavy traffic that pass through there. So again, I coordinate with utilities, we coordinate with the uh the gas companies and everybody else. Um but if I do not hit it and get it cleaned up, you're going to get the calls. So if there is a program where we're going to invest x amount of bit millions, we have those streets, we will leave them behind. But if they they're not in this scope of work for the next 5 years, I got to do something for the people who live there or the people who drive through there. >> So just take that money. >> Anything else? That's it. Thank you very much. Any other questions? >> No. >> Thank you very much. [cough] >> Yes. Go ahead. >> Good evening, Mayor, City Council Roa Jr. for the uh for the record. Let me start uh by a couple things. Um the uh I was not aware that the minimum standards for payment had been dropped in 2017. In 2016, we were actually working to do the opposite to uh raise those minimum standards for certain certain are certain areas of the city depending on what soil standards you had. Uh we got a push back from the developers there. So then the next thing was to to have them put uh French drains in there in certain areas to the point that we uh feeder was even willing to give them the French drains. Uh they weren't willing to do that either. You mentioned the fruit coast uh um lobbyists earlier that are very strong in this nation. one this town is a developers and I'm not saying that then they're start right but I'm just saying there's going to be if we don't do that so the point is there's going to be issues with our with our street panel rebuilding them or not there's going to be issues because of of of the type of soil that we have in certain parts of the city um to uh touch on uh uh Mr. Chavez. Uh, that was not the recommendation of the subcommittee. Um, the subcommittee actually well there, let me let me back up a little bit. There was there was two other there was two other uh recommendations that weren't in line with what you asked us to do, but we took the the opportunity after we had voted to uh to recommend zero. So, we took the opportunity to have some other alternative ideas, if you will. We looked at Mines Road often um for obvious reasons. We figured the overunder on on on bringing that to interstate standards was a billion dollars and that's just a starting point. Um which obviously is is way too much for us to to chew. So we had uh talked about um a uh a program to to run fiber for the stop lightss so that the stop lights could be more in sync. Minimal cost. I think it was like a $2 million cost. We thought obviously too much too little to bond. So we we voted and recommended that that the RMA take on that project so that they can go and and uh you know become make those lights more efficient. Also uh FM72 was just that FM FM is farm to market. As we know Mines Road is not a farm to market. Farm to market is a is a road that you see going to Mirando. Uh M's road is not that. So we also recommended that the city council uh uh vote on a resolution to take to also the county in partnership with the county to make it a state highway. um you that's a process that you need to do to take it to text and then text could uh turn it into a state highway and that will increase the possibilities of funding. So those are two of the of the recommendations that we asked for and also uh we we recommended zero and and the $30 million number came from because of the first time that we recommended zero. The main committee did not like that and obviously frankly didn't believe that that was the recommendation. So, uh, when we, uh, um, passed the, uh, recommendation for you about the, uh, uh, taking 5% of property taxes and dedicating that to street paving, that was all with the caveat that I would go back to the subcommittee recommending $30 million. I would not agree to it unless the subcommittee also agreed to it. I wasn't going to speak on behalf of my subcommittee. Went back to the subcommittee and the recommendation was again uh, a no. Zero zero recommendation. And it's not because that we don't know that we don't think that there's a need. There's there's definitely a need. We just do not like the idea of again to the to the point and it's been brought up before of of financing uh something that's going to last five to 10 years with a $20 with a 20-year note. Um a a $10 million note is going and this is the the rationale behind it. One of the reasons is when I was a council member and I go to to HOA meetings, they would we would get a lot of complaints um from some of the more affluent neighborhoods complaining that their streets weren't up to par and they'd say they pay a lot in property taxes. Well, my only answer to that, as you know, is property taxes are already dedicated for other things. But that's that wasn't a good enough answer. So, um in going through through these different committees, as you know, we brought this uh this recommendation before in front of council. Um, that's where where my idea for that. But also, if you think about it in just a numbers standpoint, um, a $10 million note over 20 years is going to be about an $800,000 payment a year. So, why are we kicking the can down the road if we understand this is going to be an ongoing problem? We need at least at least $5 million a year to be able to maintain our roads. Why are we going to finance something for 20 years? And that's just $10 million. If we do the $30 million that you're asking for, you're talking about $2.4 million. That's half. Just a payment for 20 years, that's half what we're already asking for for something that's going to last five years. So when we have a a whole new set of council members, you're going to be dealing with the same issues instead of thinking differently instead of of creating a some fiscal responsibility so that future council members, future councils have this this this nest egg, if you will, to be able to provide this maintenance and make sure that that's going to where it's supposed to go. the the the largest inland port in North America, making sure that our streets are are are to the standards that we need, that we have the money to be able to to maintain those and and it's and and it's not costing us. It's going to take some time because we have these bonds, but if if we get away from financing this over the years, over the next 10, 15, 20 years, it's going to make sense. We just have to have that faith and take that jump which was why uh the the the committee decided to do that because uh again we just don't like the idea of financing uh sometimes in the last 5 years or 20 years and it it also you know whenever you get into situations where where you can't you're not making as much money as you used to anymore then you have to force yourself to be fiscally responsible. Well this is forcing city government to be fiscally responsible. Government by nature is not fiscally responsible. That's just the way it is. That's nobody's fault. No one person's fault in this room. It's just a collective a collective of of of a of a flawed system. This is an opportunity to be able to take one small step to make it responsible. >> All right. >> Questions? >> Any questions? No. >> All right. Thank you. All right. Next. Next, >> mayor. The next department that we have is the is the uh parks department. Um up to this point, we've had the uh part the previous departments I have presented have been the the amount that city administrative recommendation and the main committee have been in line. Uh 70 million for health. uh the 10 million for the Hamilton and the public works uh street paving of 120 million which we're talking which is a 30 million we have 30 million uh and in year one we we don't have anything because it's four years 30 30 30 million times 4 is 120 million because we had already uh planned on that first year is going to be planning and coming up with a program to initiate it and then and take it and to Mr. uh King's Point the the financing would then come in place on an annual basis on how much we need for that. >> Mayor, if I may. >> Yes, go ahead. >> In terms of the 120 million since it is a like a planned out uh it has it's multiple years out. I I mean I really don't I wouldn't I would be more comfortable bonding out for a lower amount now and then rebonding in the future to finish out since we do have it allocated and then at that time but I know there is a need right so I would be comfortable with you know [snorts] a a chunk and then coming back to rebond out for public works infrastructure repaying >> in the future so that we don't have to do the whole amount at this time. >> Yes. Go ahead. >> I will I will agree with you, Miss Councilwoman. Um it is because, you know, getting this amount for 120 million, it's it's it's a lot, you know, and we haven't fixed our mistakes yet. So, until we fix what we have, you know, I think we should just start off small and then gradually wait from there. and look at the other at the other hand as well. So >> and and mayor that that is certainly the prerogative of the council and one of the choices that that is hopefully going to be made today so we can move forward. So any adjustment that you all feel that would be able to pass or we can move forward. So it doesn't necessarily have to be those four five year program in there but I I do think it is crucial that we initiate something so that we can we we don't fall behind like we which is what has been happening right now. Um like I mentioned the next department is is a parks department. This is the uh department that did have some adjustments based on our last meeting. Uh there were some uh projects that were added in there and the Mr. uh JJ will be presenting his presentation which does not have all the the updates that we've done today. So, as when he finishes his update and if you look at page uh page 10 of the handout, you're going to be able to see there what projects are in there. We can come back and discuss that when he does his presentation. So, >> good evening, Mayor Council. Thank you for having me here again. Uh Mr. Vice Ma said this is the presentation that I presented to the bond committee. There's some that there are some uh items that were taken away and there's some items that were added recently so that are not been here that we can I guess can be discussed after. So uh I we I think I give you a copy or let me just to go over the um so we identified uh the eight uh eight items that we were looking for that we're looking to uh for our department. Uh number one being the administrative office and warehouse that we have. Uh it is it's outdated. It's over 16 years old. Uh it's already it's in it's we're very short on storage. Uh one of the biggest challenges is that we're not centrally located as far as uh where as you all know we are located off of Pacina and South Orbo. So we're growing. So we're trying to find a more centralized space more central area so that we can uh have this building and and accessible for the citizens here for the for Roto. The second item deal identify is as you know we always have troubles with fields and all that. We look for [clears throat] possibly uh putting some artificial turf on some of the fields for easier maintenance and oper and for more less m that we have and more cost effective led lighting systems uh for for different trails Sakati trail sakati creek trail chak trail and other trails that need to be added from father magnol surveillance cameras that we're starting to add to the park for safety uh right now we have a hundred we would we we're trying our goal is to put 100 cameras us every year to different parts of the park and we and we just don't pick it out randomly. We collaborate with PD and with to see where parks are getting the most vandalism and crime so that we have a a task force to where we're going to put the cameras for safety for our citizens which is good that all our people are now a lot of people are using now our parks and that's good good to hear good to see that the next day I know we took it out but the three points pools in south was was taken off uh lighting along Sakata Creek at the trail system the the open space master plan suggest that for the rear car compressor plant the need is great for lighting systems along Sakata Creek trails. Um it's about 6 and a half six miles long. Jacquu Creek will also be wanted to be added in there as eventually we want to as we want to uh get the trails more lit up for for both for both of the main trails. Last one well the last one that was with our department is the construction of a rec center for district 6 and 8. Uh as you know we do not have a a rec center in district 6 nor district 8. uh these communities have voiced concerns about being the uh these only districts without a rec center. And then the last thing we put there as as request is I know people was about the water park. Uh the water park was part of the Buenov Vista Sports Complex. Uh we have the land there. It was unfunded. The money was to move over to finish the sports complex uh the Buista Sports Complex which is being handled right now. So, these are the the eight the eight ones that we brought up to the uh as you can see there a checklist of the eight that I just mentioned uh from the relocation administration, the turf, the LED sports lighting, the uh surveillance cameras, reconstruction pool which will taken off, the lighting of the creeks, the construction of of the of construction recck centers in district 6 and 8, and a water park in Bua Sports Complex. >> Mayor, may I? Yes. Go ahead. >> Um, Mr. Homez, the uh the top item, the administrative office and warehouse that you have budgeted, I think for 8 million. >> That's correct. >> Do you have plans for that? I mean, we saw extensive plans for the police facility and also for the health department facility, >> right? >> Do you have plans? >> Uh, no, ma'am. We we do not have we do not have an actual plan. Uh, and let me add that a little bit to that. The 8 million was with the with the with the possibility that we already had the land. So, [snorts] uh, we would have to search for land. So, we're looking at another three to four million dollars to purchase the plant, which you'll see at the very end. I added that to the end. Uh, have we have we had a design in construction? No, we have not. We have some ideas that we've seen through other other areas that if allowed, we would definitely have a construction design. Uh, so we don't to answer your question, we do not have one right now. I so I think [clears throat] perhaps this is also a discussion that this could wait for November simply because it seems as if the projects that are being presented to us are highly detailed and I think um when we're presenting it to the public they do want to have a better understanding of exactly what their monies are going to fund. Not that it's not needed, but that um >> you know, it it sounds as if it would take several months to get to that level of specification so that the building would meet your needs for the future, right? >> And and so maybe waiting is not such a bad idea. >> Okay. >> Go ahead. >> If I may ask that just to elaborate on that question, I would I'm curious from bond council andor financial advisor Mr. Nosa or Mr. is um you know what's normal when you know how much of a project needs to be fully designed before you can put it to the voters or can it be um conceptual in nature detailed in a way of where it would go or and who it would serve or is it standard to have the design completely finished um by the time it goes to the voters? Sure. For the record, mayor, honorable city council, my name is Jay Wadez. I'm an attorney with McCall Parkerson Horton and I have the privilege of privilege of serving as bond council. It's not really a legal question. Um, it's more of a matter of preference. I've seen it done both ways. Sometimes they have everything drawn out to a tea at the time of ordering the election. Uh, sometimes they kind of figure out the details of what they want to present to the voters a little bit afterwards. uh because most of the time the information that's commun communicated to the voters isn't actually in the measure and the proposition. It's in the materials they get out distributed other via other methods their website you know mail outs and stuff like that >> right because I imagine you know a lot of this stuff is can be very expensive to design if you don't have the guarantee of the funding and sometimes the the funding is for also design as part of what you get funding for in these bond elections. Right. >> That's correct. So, it's it's kind of difficult to expect full designs or even partial designs when you don't have the money yet, which the bond election gives you. So, I just want to point that out. >> Mayor, may I may >> go ahead. Um I I think more the intention of my my question was to understand what the specific needs are because you know perhaps the health department they've been thinking about this for a long time and they seem to have really detailed plans. Um but I think what we saw in the police department headquarters was just really a listing of their needs very specific. And um I think that if we're intending for this uh facility to serve for the next future years, then having a breakdown, I mean, it's a good exercise to go through so that you know exactly what you need. You can forecast what your future needs might be and make sure that the facility will end up serving or fulfilling all of the needs that you have. And so less of um a schematic design or actually I'm not I don't understand the definitions of the different types of design but having a good understanding of what your needs are. Um you know the space that you'll need and if you'll this piece of land that you think you that we have will serve and meet that. Um so just a little bit more specific so that we understand exactly what you're looking for. Okay. >> And uh yeah, somebody asked me that the building is 60 years old, so we know where we at right now. So it it needs a it needs >> Yes. Go ahead. >> Um so Mr. Gomez, thank you for for this ma'am. Um I do have a question on your LED lighting request because I see that as an opportunity for potential return on investment there. Um, I'm looking at your slide where you elaborate on the lighting, but there's no mention there of cost or potential savings or at what point we would hit that return on that investment. I know that was one of the reasons why we chose to invest in full LED lighting in the rest of the city. So, I think going full LED would be a good idea just to keep it consistent with other projects that we've had. And I know that when we decided to go fully LED on the city, the return on investment there was about two 200 250 250,000 a year for a $1 million investment or something. So, I would like to see um the numbers if you could tell us like at what point uh 13 million for the request for the lighting. But at what point are we going to hit that return on that investment? >> Return on investment, >> right? Because if you know if we're going to be saving, you know, so many million a year in lighting or however, I just don't know what that looks like. But um I I would like to see that. And then also, you know, maybe even projected like um if we're going to, you know, have have issues with some of the bulbs burning out or something, >> right? >> Um also on the turf side when you talking about turf, >> um you mentioned here that you compare the cost of the turf to the cost of the maintenance in terms of that. However, [clears throat] um I don't think that this accurately um shows the the risks of putting turf, right, in terms of the damage with the heat, possible theft, possible upkeep issues when people are used to taking like for example their pets to the park and they're not used to dealing. I like the idea of having turf in controlled environments like the unit trade or having it like at facilities that we can kind of manage how it's being used because I know we did have that issue where the turf was damaged and it was a huge replacement cost, >> right? >> So, I'm not I'm not too comfortable with the idea of putting turf in open fields that are >> subject to, you know, the elements, >> right? >> Um these turf fields would be open access. Nobody would be monitoring them. >> Miracle temp. U so these fields that we are identifying are fields that are enclosed and and have the heaviest used by both of the leagues that a lot with a lot of leagues that are are enclosed. For example, let me tell the first one. Slaughter Slaughter Field, Slaughter Park, softball, I mean soccer. We have four leagues that play in those three soccer fields. We and we're trying one on top of the other. the maintenance and operations, the field, the maintenance of that field is dangerous. Uh that parking lot outside is probably has better surfaces than that field because it's just used so much. So the maintenance and I feel sorry because we get called, "Hey, the field's horrible." Yeah, but we don't you don't give us a chance to to to fix it. You don't give us a chance to to get them back in back in shape again for you guys, you know. So these fields that we identify is is >> like that one that will be enclosed and monitored >> uh throughout real quick. M >> do other [clears throat] cities put turf? I mean I >> I know it's a very uh ideal, but I'm just >> there's >> we're talking about, you know, we're struggling with, you know, for me, I'm looking at what can we do >> that would provide a return that's going to tackle some of these long-standing issues, >> right? >> And I'm struggling a little bit with turf. >> Yeah. >> Help me. So, so to answer your question, Mayor Protemp, yes, they are going into more synthetic turf. Um, now I know there's a there's now nowadays the old there's no the old turf used to be like carpet. Now there's actually real blade actually blades of grass. One of the main thing is water water ration now is we don't have to worry about watering. The the water is totally you have to worry about watering right now as you all know with the with the water shortage that we have here. So, that's a big help. Um but um little by little as you will as you will see in other cities they are slowly but surely going converting into some type of synthetic fields for for again I I understand I understand what you're saying that not open to the fields but just going to be some select ones that are being more used uh that for example father magnal one of the baseball fields the top one the top one that's one of we could possibly we can artificially because that's we can have a lot of games going on there uh the three at the three at slaughter the that those soccer fields flag football you name it everything's going on in that in those fields so we've identified most of the fields that will be closely guarded and be heavily used the most >> okay so mayor if I may yes >> so if we didn't bond out for this now we could always bond out for it in the future you know cuz I think we would need to get our surveillance up to date before we go and invest turf because >> there's always going to be the risk of theft >> always Right. Somebody could steal it and take it to their to their yard. >> Right. I mean, I'm just being realistic because we do have vandalism issues. I'm just don't want to agree to something that we don't have the surveillance in place to monitor. We don't, you know, I want to get the structural issues down before. Um, so this is something we would consider and could potentially be a saving, but >> it's not necessarily something we have to go do right now. >> Right. Yes, ma'am. Um so as you see uh there are in the on the on the our uh our maintenance and operations uh for uh for for for the administrative uh for the synthetic turf to it only be no no maintenance operation the conversion led lights I will I will go back to that of airpot temp what you're requesting to see how much it would uh how much it would be the savings for cuz uh I'll give you a perfect example father Magible soccer field there's 92 90 96 bulbs in the in the soccer field replacing one is $1,12 $200 just for one light bulb to replace and those things are obsolete. You try to order them now it's another 1,200. So we go to LED those things lesser lesser lumens what they call and more brightness and they last longer. So eventually our goal is to convert all our fields to LED to get our our money in return. So >> mayor if I may yes >> but isn't it also cheaper? I mean are there is it just from the like the does the electricity bill come down >> for LED? >> Yes. >> Yes ma'am. >> Yes. >> I would like to see those numbers. >> Yes ma'am. Uh and I I don't have with me but we've already done some kind of cost analysis. Uh I know Liz our park planner has been working on that and I will give you that information. But it's it's in the long run it does makes a big difference as far as as far as it just on the maintenance and of fixing it. >> Uh surveillance cameras. Uh, you know, like we said, we want to we want to we pay about 150,000 [cough] a year to [clears throat] keep up with the cameras. Right now, we installed 100. We want to install 100 every year to our parks. Uh, we're not doing the pool anymore. The trailing system will be a onetime hit. The rec centers uh if normally will cost about 307,000 to operate a year each rec center. Uh, and then the water park. Well, that's that's that's a separate that's a separate item because I know that was removed. So here basically what you see here is the M and O for the for the uh for the items that that were requested to the bond bond committee and I want and I want to thank also Mr. and all and all our here that also helped us to listen and and and uh helped us put this through through the committee that was here. >> Thank thank you thank you Mr. Rome and thank you for letting me know that Mr. helped you on this. I was going to say do you have enough knowledge about LED lighting? [laughter] >> No, he was very on everything that I saw. doubt that you had that knowledge cuz when you said it I said I don't believe >> you thought I was smarter huh >> they had you had Mr. >> Mr. It was the main one that was our [laughter] >> Well, I mean, and and so this is the deal for me on on the on M and and parks and recrecks. I know over the years, you and I have had great conversations about this and and in every city, it almost has to be automatic. Um that uh there's a lot of need for park uh for green spaces and and for people to gather. Uh but for some reason or another, well, and for maybe for a lot of reasons that uh it's always a losing proposition for the city. Why? because we don't we don't invest enough money in in in personnel. We're always kind of behind the eightball on putting too much money into something that doesn't create too much money and and we're always having to um underfund and create more problems for you by making more parks and keep your budget at the same level or lower. And so it's it's been I I don't know why that that that dynamic happens, but uh it is true that that parks are sometimes um I and I really think that a lot of people don't understand the value of our parks and recreational system because a lot of people that are our age, I know you and I through the years, we've took we've taken advantage of every single park probably in town since we were kids. Uh and and up to the last, you know, at my age, there's a lot of people that don't see the value in it because we just don't use them. I mean, why go for a walk but I use the public streets for for walking and and and do that. But, uh there's a huge value and there's a huge expense in the upkeep in doing that. Um the only question that I have for you though is very difficult to understand. I agree with uh uh council council woman here that the schematic is going to be very important. go ahead and bring us something that you might want to think where did you arrive at this figure >> uh to create administrative buildings is traditionally traditionally uh when you go out for bond uh most people don't like to pay for administrative buildings they'll do it for everything else but they don't like to do it for that I don't know why that is it's just the dynamic that's just the history behind it but it's good to have the numbers and the figures right in front of us the second part of it is that does this M that you have right here include I know you we're getting ready to open up uh the new uh baseball fields or the new recreation areas and there's a sport complex over there. >> That adds to your cost. That adds to the square footage of the M for the city of Laredo. Uh one of the biggest items that a lot of people sometimes overlook is that for everything that you build, every single building that you put in order, every square inch, every square foot that you add to the to the to the city, it's more maintenance. Right. And are we prepared to do that? So, in you adding these figures together right now, your maintenance and operation cost is going to go up because of that park over there. And I don't know what your uhou is with the ribbon cutting ceremony that we had this morning that time of year. So, those are incredible uh uh incredible those are big questions to answer in terms of uh just do we have it in the budget? Do we have it in the budget for every year to have the upkeep of these investments that we're putting out for the public? And so that question goes to you and to your team. Uh I like the idea of LED lighting. Uh it is expensive as it is right now. Those bulbs that you were talking about are incredibly ridiculously expensive. But how do we get it to the level over the next five or six years to replace all of them and put it to LED lighting where the light bill just alone on that is not going to pay for that investment. So those are some of the things to consider. >> If I may inter and I was going so just an FYI uh the Buenav Vista operations and maintenance is paid through the sports venue tax that is not part of our of our budget uh department and all that that is paid through >> through we pay we're getting paid through general funding that that through the >> I can I can I can understand and I can respect that but it's just from one pocket to another pretty much and and and what I'm saying is that it creates also that Right. So, but there's cost involved and then overall we're looking at the overall picture of this and I get it. I believe me. Uh but I'm just telling you that uh right now I'm breaking down everything that you have in here. The priorities that are going to come before me is the LED lighting um the uh um the LED lighting and and the administrative building in that order. I mean backwards, right? uh and only because we can get an investment value off of that. Uh I think people are going to see that the rec centers which I'm you know I I wish we could have more. I want to have more. I just don't know if it fits into this area. I mean into this particular uh as as as council woman was mentioning right now into this particular package. I just see it coming down the road. I might not see it coming in right now and and only because of all the other things that we have circling around us. But I I' I'd say to put a more detailed um uh grouping of numbers and schematics in order for us to reconsider or to consider whether or not how we we move forward to it. I like Dr. King's idea that we don't get it in May, we go in November and and down the line. But I think that again there's a misconception of how uh it's funny in in in out in the public that people see a quality of life issue and then some people turn it around as an absolute cost. Right? In other words, some people value it as an absolute co I mean quality of life issue and some people see it as a not a very important cost to remove it completely and so they don't value that. So, I think this is where we're going to hit, you know, where people are going to butt heads and understanding. I personally believe parks and recck is an absolute valuable valuable uh asset to the city, but I I don't know that how people are going to react to it when we tell them let's put it into a 30-year bond. >> So, those are some of the things to consider. >> Yes. Go ahead. >> You know, I agree with Councilman Gara as well. um having those you know having nine fields then you know having the the Buenav Vista coming up we're promoting the Buenav Vista having those those 10 fields coming up you know but having new nine fields with turf plus you know you know I just can't see it but what I do see is the surveillance because I've seen you know everything we you worked hard the the people work everything that you know um parks works hard on you know fixing restrooms fixing you know and then coming in and seeing that all the damages and so there's some damages that are pretty bad Santa Fe to the Santa Fe part sometimes you know you've seen those those damages uh but having surveillance I think that's one of the my main priorities uh making sure that we have surveillance there another one would be the uh the lighting of course everybody says talks about the lighting having a like the uh the new walking trail which are uh in Slaughter park >> that we need those. We walk those those areas that we need that lighting especially because especially inside those walking trails to have those lighting and to have the opportunity for people to do you know because some people can get out later at night and you know it gets darker >> but they have the opportunity to walk around enjoy mother nature just to relax or whatever. So it's for me the LED lights and the surveillance is the main one of the main things and and which something I will will see. But I do have a question Mr. Mr. Gomez. Yes sir. >> The Sakat the Sakate Creek trail system and the mountain bike uh trail and Shiloh is it a contingency from yesterday's conversation or >> is it you know from the grant that we had from the the bike drills >> or is it totally different? >> No, it this is to this is totally different council member. This is uh this this for the trail is something >> I'm just I'm just trying to find figure out if it's you know it's if it's the same trails. Yeah. Yeah. No. Uh I know Council Member King motion to put it into Is that correct, Dr. To put it into possibly into the uh into the bond discussion, >> but consider? Yeah. So, so that's that's different. >> That's different. Okay. Yes, sir. >> Other than that, thank you so much for presenting this. >> No, no, thank you all. So, thank you all for your time. Appreciate it and uh looking forward to it. All right. Thank you. >> I have just one question. >> Yes, go ahead. >> Um Mr. Do you think you could also uh with the surveillance cameras because I agree with my colleagues that it's incredibly important. I think the public will be feel much safer when they're out there using the parks and they do enjoy the parks. Um but if you could uh tie it to specific parks, let the public know where those cameras will be going in and it'll be phased in over time. So expectations, we we we have a plan uh that we've met with PD. as a committee. When we got the first batch of 100 cameras, we identified and we went down to the parks that have the most vandalism and the most traffic. >> So, we knocked out 100 of those. So, if we go to this bond, we're going to get 100 and we already know exactly where the next hundred will go and so on for down the road. So, >> so that's that's the plan, man. But we I'll get you we will get we'll identify that already. Like in other words, this is phase one. This is phase two. This is phase three where we go from there. >> Mr. Mr. Gomez, do you I'm sorry. Thank you, Mayor. Uh Mr. is by any chance do you have anything in plans just to make have like at least security at in the parks maybe while let's say from 6 to 8 or 6 until they close >> you know because and that way we can help I don't know if you have something in planned maybe it's another story right but right now this is what I'm seeing that we having a >> a security in those like a task force like a park police right >> I just just for them not so we can't we won't intervene with with uh with PD, >> right? Right. >> You know, at least give them that that space and doesn't, you know, have to be have a three officers. I believe it's three officers within PD, >> right? >> That takes care that takes care of all the parts. You know, having at least the level three security in that area, you know, I don't know if you can, you know, have something in and and you know, some numbers for us. >> Okay. >> So, see if you can bring it up. Let's see. And that's something le surveillance you know the the light and security just so they can be patrolling the area correct >> until maybe until until the cut off time which is 11. >> Right. So I'm going to let Chief Rodriguez talk. I know we have a a task force of parks police and I'll let him so you can kind of give you the numbers when what we >> the >> Good evening mayor uh council. So, we we've kicked this idea around for quite a while and and I think it's an excellent idea to bring the security uh personnel to the parks. >> Um the the the issue right now is to finding level three security guards and to put him under our uh command and be able to push him out to those areas that are most needed. Right. So, it's a conversation that needs to have uh I guess we need more time to explore it >> and to see how it would sit well with our organization and al as well as with the city, right? >> Because definitely you would need a level three uh security guard to be in there. So, yes, it's a conversation. park police right now as you know it's over uh we we're very low on resources when it comes to things like that as well as port police but we're definitely a conversation and and of course a great idea that that that we can implement in the future >> one more thing from here >> yes go ahead >> uh I just wanted to mention uh Mr. Listen, I I agree with Councilman Tel. I forgot to mention that that in that order, surveillance is very important. I know you and I had started these talks about 3 or four years ago when we wanted a group with the ISDs and put them every park that's attached to an ISD that we need to have an absolute way of surveilling those areas because I mean those are going to be the most critical areas that get some of the the damage. But there's a lot of activity in there so we can partner up on both both those things. Yes, sir. I don't. Thank you. Yes, sir. All right. Thank you. >> I'd like to take a 10 minute 20 minute recess so we can stretch out a little bit. >> Second have a quick question for >> Oh, yes, ma'am. Sorry. >> Go ahead before I take the recess. I'm just um trying and please forgive me if there somebody packets here but the the presentation um the brief presentation [clears throat] from Tuesday's meeting would would we be able to see the the main committee approved like what they motioned and then what the city what city administration recommended >> because the numbers are very different from the numbers we're seeing today >> that information is on the larger sheet is that >> but >> for what the council member is asking for >> sheet >> yes u I think it's in the it's here we have the difference between the administration and the current one so there is >> council member wants to see what the actual items are um from from the >> yeah we can see them >> need if we can if we can get with her to make sure >> well so the city administration for Parks and Recreation was 46 million million. This is 80. >> Um, so it's a big jump. >> So I'd like to see. >> Okay. And then >> and then but the pool and the bridge too. >> I think it would just be helpful for us to see what your recommendations are. >> Yes. We'll make sure you got it. >> All right. >> Yes. Go ahead. >> What are we at right now? What are we at right now? >> Right now, we're just going through the presentation presentations. Once we finish with public safety, which is the remaining uh category that we have, police and fire, uh we'll be able to then take your recommendations as to what items you want to move forward. >> Quick question. Are we choosing today or >> we're not choosing today? >> We don't February 10th. Well, February, >> February 10th, 201 February 10 is the date that we're we have as a deadline. So, if we can come up with the items that in here, then council can then continue their work. If not, we're going to have to have a meeting somewhere along the process to select whatever items we have in here. But, I mean, whatever council decides as long as we meet those the February 10th deadline deadline. So, okay. >> I know next week is going to be the Austin trip. So, that week is up. >> But right thing right now, we have so much things that we're going over through going through to make a decision just tonight. So, all right. >> All right. Go ahead. >> So, we can make a preliminary decision. >> Yes. >> Right. Like kind of where we're at. We have two more presentations before the end of the night. Right. Right. Yes. >> We're just taking a recess. We're going to hear two more and then we can kind of preliminary deliberate, finalize it by the 14th, but at least give you some idea [snorts] of where we're headed, right? >> Yes, ma'am. All right. >> All right. >> Okay. Recess. >> Back to session. It is 9:09 p.m. Let's go ahead and continue with police. [laughter] >> [clears throat] >> I think I saw you. >> Did you know I'm going to die? >> I didn't happen to strategic plan. All right chief. >> Even [snorts] um Chief Chief Miggas, for the record, uh I know that uh there was an ask on the on the breakdown for our our asks, right? And so here in front of you, you're going to have what was presented to the committee. Um, of course, this was uh pretty much broken down into the needs of the department. Now, I know like I said last uh on Tuesday, right, that there's other needs uh for the city. And so, when when we were asked as to what the priority was for for the police department, we ended up uh requesting our headquarters, which we're in Dire and uh our training facility. And we can go into depth into that. Now, as far as needs, uh, and and I want to share something with with everyone here as far as the the needs of the department, there's there's greater needs that this community needs and and one example and and I think I've spoken with a couple of councilmen in regards to things like, for example, sexual survivor uh, safe centers, right? So, one of the things that we struggle with is when we have a sexual assault victim or domestic assault victim, especially our sexual assault victims, we look at we we we we transport them to our local hospitals and and and what we're doing there, we're just revictimizing them again. They're sometimes waiting for two hours uh at the hospital to be able to get their sane kit uh done. And so one of the things that we're pushing and I've talked to uh Councilman Ricardo Vanel on this project that so the 5.5 acres that we purchased for our south sector uh bureau uh which is going to service our south sector uh districts um that in itself was a 5.5 acre tract and and we ended up trying to compress that bureau that sector so that we can accommodate for a sexual assault uh survivor and domestic uh assault survivor safe center and what that is we're allocating those 1 1.5 and we had had this conversation mayor about being able to get the services to our community and so when we're talking about needs that's uh we're in dire need of that the reason that is not in this referendum is because I don't think we can wait another 3 years if it doesn't pass to get that safe center going I think they we need to take action And and I know that I've explored the possibility of me maybe getting state funds for for for that. And I think we we we are already conveyed this to Senator Safarini from the police department that maybe we can get some funding through the state uh to get this uh in operational. uh it is a dire need not not only because of that but I'll give you some numbers just real quick um as to what we're talking about here but if you look at the numbers itself this is how many this is how many victims we have a year when it comes to sexual assaults you know child sexual assaults 269 adult sexual assaults 234 and so when we're talking about [clears throat] this particular item Um this is the amount of sin exams that we do a year. 83. And out of those 83 that we can account for, 18 of these women were told that they needed to go home, not take a shower, and wait for that same kid to be performed the next day. And so these are the problems that we encounter uh when we don't have what is needed for our community. Right? So uh this is just to give you a little bit of visibility as to what the needs are for for Loyal Police and and for for your city. Uh but the other the other issue that we also have asset need and I know that you're probably going to advocate for this at the state level. We've been I've been talking to Dr. Chamberlain on this and and this as well to be able to have a same nurse in house. The other the other topic that we've been talking about as far as the need it's also our mental health uh in institution here. So a state hospital we're in dire need for it. Why? Because right now whenever we're going to be doing an e emergency detention, we arrest the individual or we detain the individual, we take them to the hospital, an officer sometimes has to rotate for a whole two days till that person gets diagnosed and you know transported to a state hospital. So our resources are depleted because we're also in dire need of a state hospital, right? So the conversation as to what the need is and what the needs of this community are are very big. Um and so when we're talking about the police department itself, we we need to take care of our infrastructure and and our infrastructure right now is pretty much very broken. And and one of the things that that you're going to see in our presentation is we did [clears throat] ask for all this. We we already try to improvise on a lot of this as as to how we can get them. The only thing that I can I can tell this council and mayor is that our headquarters and our training facility is something that we're going to put forth as a as a as a priority. And why when we train an officer that's 21 years old and we train and we we had this conversation with I had this conversation with some of you where we're given this officer this officer has you know is being trained to sometimes to deescalate the use of force to deescalate the situation and that's a lot of liability in our city when we're giving a 21-year-old the power to take liberty and to take life when when it's it is right. So the the training itself is crucial to our operations. It is crucial to remain up to the the standards that is required by the state and above that. Why? Because we live in a border town. Every day we encounter different situations and sometimes those situations are situations that puts us at a very at a level of adrenaline that we need to make sure that our officers are always trained to be able to counter that. And so right now we go down to to where we're training and I can show you that our training facilities as you can see the pictures to your upper right and upper left. This is our briefing room and this is where we train and I know Councilman Gutierz has seen this and some of you councilmen have seen this firsthand. When we're training, you look at this pictures itself. We barely fit. And this is just a portion of our police department. When we're talking about concept, you know, we we got a piece pieces of land that we can say, okay, this is what we envision of constructing. You you look to your to your left. That's an actual police station and uh a property room area for the future. And and the and the way we're trying to put this in play is if we built we want to build a police department that maybe and this is something that came out of our our architects is that chief you don't have to build the whole thing to make it work right. So we build what is the the the necessary items property our 911 center and things like that that our detectives division to make sure that they do their work when when when when they're asked to. Right. So, one of the things that we are looking for is that maybe we construct our our building and maybe leave the second floor just shell and whenever we have the funding to provide to go to the next phase, we do the finish out. And so, that will save us some money. And so, looking at everything that we're looking at in the future for the future, we're we're talking about reducing the amount of of money that is going to be initially invested for our headquarters by doing things like that. So the number that we came up with was 110 million and I know that some numbers are getting some some projects that you that are put forth here are uh $850 a square foot. We left it at $650 a square foot because we're we're taking this approach that we're not going to finish the entire building. There's going to be a part of the building that's going to be left shell so that we can build for the future and finish out for the future. So this approach, I think it'll it's it's a manageable way of of of doing construction. And so this is what our ask is that for the headquarters is $110 million. And that is to be able to accommodate for what it's needed. Priority number one in the headquarters, our 911 center. our 911 center operations. We've already uh envisioned that we're going to put forth a plan that we're going to bring in our LISD and UISD uh centers there and that is for for us to have better communication with them. When we're responding to a threat to life to our schools, sometimes LISD gets a different call versus UISD versus Laro PD. So, we're all three of us are responding to the same thing but different communication. So, this is where the mixup happens. The same thing happens with the sheriff's department. Sometimes we're we're responding to the to to different things and they don't even know what we're responding to. What if they're closer and they're and they're there and they can respond a lot faster? Things like this that we can work on and we can get better is by creating this new and improved next century level type of 911 center operations. when something big happens around the city and it and it doesn't only affect the city also affects the county we have to have that communication. So what does our our dispatchers do? They call county. They call the state and to be able to have that communication and be able to deploy and and relay that information to our officers. We don't have that right now. Now remember in that 911 center we also receive our fire our fire department's calls. And so I I this is something that is very important and very important to the the department and very important to the fire department to make sure that we go and and improve those those uh those uh those uh spaces that we currently have. Uh the other thing is our property room, right? our property room. I can tell you that right now we're we're we pretty much are in the verge of being out of compliance and and and some of you have seen our property room and and it's it's uncalled for, right? We're we're a 575 commission officer police department. We shouldn't be in that predicament. We should be we should have the facilities that are needed to make sure that we service our 285,000 population. So, that's another thing that is a priority when we're building this headquarters. Um, to your right, uh, do you have any questions on our on our as for the police headquarters, >> mayor? I do. >> Yes. Let me just ask him a question. Does that include the land this cost? >> Yes. >> Okay. All right. And do you have a site in mind or not yet? >> We are looking at Saunders, mayor, but right now, like I've told uh uh most of you that it is wherever it's it's feasible for us to to build. It can be like I said, give me [clears throat] two blocks downtown to build up, we'll make it happen. You know, that anything that we that on any part of the of the city that we can save except for I'm going to be very upfront. Uni Royal is terrible. We would never be able to get out of there even if we wanted to. Uh, Mines's Road is another one that we, you know, we we do, we do have a warehouse port sector station here because there is a need in that environment to put one there, but to have a police headquarters there, you know, out of to get out of traffic, it's it's not feasible for us. So, anywhere else in the city, we're we're up for it. We we'll make it work. >> Go ahead, council. >> Yeah. Um, thank you, Chief, for this. Um the question I have for management real quick is um I understand that we're asking the public to support this uh so you know approve the funding so that it gives us the flexibility to go out and and start making this actually happen. But um is there a way to do this in combination with the economic development department to make it um kind of like an economic driver and maybe get a donation or something like that from one of our you know we've got some some land land owners around town that are pretty pretty favorable and friendly and and have always looking to make Laredo better. Um, this could I see in the diagram, you know, you're right along the front edge, but maybe we could work something out where you push it a little back and have some, you know, retail or some development in the frontage and uh make it kind of work to develop an area that uh is that something that we could do like leverage and and to where we're estimating 110, but if we were able to work something out and save costs, [snorts] um, we wouldn't have to bond out for the whole amount at the end when we actually put it all together. >> I I'd say mayor and mayor prom city council, yes, that could be looked at as as a variable. You know, I mean, we can look at donations, we can look at sponsorships, all those different kinds of things. And with what you're talking about there about uh converting some of the property into a retail and finding a somebody that would develop it, right, and and utilize that for that. We can go through those things. I think what I would tell you though is that um we generally cover the cost on the front end for most of that stuff and then we seek reimbursements on different things. So keep that in your mind when we think about that. But we also have the ability we don't accept the debt unless we take out the bond either. And so so if you were to say let's put it in this way but let's look at those options that you're talking about there. we would have plenty of time to do that in order to get to that level. Um I don't I don't think it affects anything that we're doing. And um Okay. >> But I but yes, ma'am, I think we could do something of that nature because we we would we would have the I think Dr. King said it most as well too is that we have the authority to go out and borrow the money, but if we don't need it, then we won't. And so that would give an opportunity to have that conversation. Another question. >> Um, Mayor May, >> go ahead. Um, when we're talking about priorities and the amount of money that you're asking for, Chief Rodriguez, it it seems as if you you've you've gone through kind of that exercise that we've been presented here with a extensive list of um needs and you've taken a careful consideration of that to prioritize where you think our really high priority needs are. And um I was fortunate enough to uh tour the headquarters with council member Gara and and could see the real need in in headquarters, the the the fact that our police department doesn't fit >> essentially, right? and and um old technology and old facilities. But apart from that, it's not just something to make something look pretty that the police department no longer fits in that facility and it's not feasible nor practical to invest money there to expand it in that location. So, I can appreciate the need for uh looking for outside land and also investing in the facility. Um I I under the the fact that you've also decided to phase this out. I think it makes a lot of sense. I know um there was a small conversation about um there was some suggestion that perhaps the current headquarters were built that way, but it seems as if you did your research and under further consideration that it it it isn't doesn't allow for any expansion, not a practical expansion, even if it made sense the land controlwise. Right. >> Correct. >> Um so it seems as if you put a lot of thought into this and I I think the need is very high. I appreciate the fact that you're adding the the sane center and I have been approached by some people who have mentioned the fact that you know allowing women to go home and not not be attended to immediately after an assault is is almost criminal and it's not an intention. It's just our limited resources. But if there is a way to resolve that issue, I think we absolutely should. So, I I hope that that will be included. Um I don't particularly see it here, but I hope that will be included in the final number. And I also um want to thank you and your officers for the excellent work that you do um with your mental health unit. Um it is not fair that cities all over the country ask the police department to provide that mental health um service to our community. And it's a failure of our society to figure out that piece and get it funded. And that's there's a lot of reasons for that. But the officers that you have trained have really stepped up. I've I've had personal interaction with them because of family and [snorts] they are highly professional, kind, and considerate and it there's I really really appreciate the work that they do. >> Um so I um I am very happy to support what you've proposed here. the training [cough and clears throat] facility, the headquarters and the sane unit. Uh because I I have seen the need and um thank you for looking comprehensively at our community and seeing how you can continue to serve in the best capacity that you can. >> Thank you, Council. I appreciate. >> Go ahead, counsel. >> So, Chief, thank you so much for everything you've done for us, you know, the community and stuff. Right now, just my question to you is where is it more likely that you you're you're considering to locate the headquarters? There was talk about, you know, building in the south next to the complex. Now, you said right now around Saunders area, you have an area more or less more definite that you want to, you know, and it is it is the the buying of the land included or not? >> Yeah. So, so the ideal location for the police department as recommended is uh centralized which would be the the Saunders area and what we had had said about the uh south looking at the south is the training facility. So, our training facility, if if you look at the uh at the at the picture to your right, that's a 20 acre uh land piece of land that we were looking at, and it's a 7,000t piece of uh um facility for all our trainees in this 7,000 ft². It also includes an indoor range. It also includes, and I know that um uh mayor, you got you got to see uh uh Virtua uh live with our city manager in Ketaro. This is exactly what you uh were were practicing in at the at those at those facilities in Mexico. That simulator, it's a great uh uh training uh tool because of the fact that pretty much is a live version of of what you might encounter. And so it puts the officer in in that situation like if it was the real thing. So that's included in that estimate for the training facility. and and and those things are are are crucial for us to continue being uh trained the way we should as as far as best practices and uh [clears throat] minimum standards. >> Very good. >> Any other question? >> Just one just one question. >> Thank you, Chief. Um, I know we we had to tour of the facility and I I there's no doubt in my mind that there's an absolute need for um for a city this size to consider and to really put this uh project into motion. Um I'm I'm just not sure about the phasing part. Uh there's I guess two school of thoughts on that. You you either if you do it now, you get the absolute cost of what you're going to finance for 30 years. If you phase it again, the cost is going to increase later on two or three years from now to do phase two or that kind of stuff. So that might be some the only consideration that I would take think of of doing. I think you had a thorough explanation as to why the equipment is very important. uh we went through the scenarios, you and I, and uh it just makes all the sense in the world that I mean uh given the environment and the the the uh or the environment around here uh lately and and and what you guys have to go through, what uh firefighters have to go through. Uh it it is a priority of mine that safety has to be first before we take care of anything else. So, um I'm in agreement with you on on on on everything. I'm just kind of skeptical on the fact that we have to phase it out. Um I'd rather have everything done in one shot. Um put it in motion so that you know you're set for the next 30 years and and uh but that's just my thinking. You might you might have run scenarios with somebody else doing it that way. So, I'm not privy to that information. I just I'm I'm just thinking out loud pretty much right now. and and we can definitely [clears throat] go back and and put options with management and then that way whenever you're making this the decision whatever date you're going to make the decision you can either incorporate it or say you know what let's just go with with option A right so uh we can definitely put both options uh for you that way you can make the decision and we'll go from there >> okay thank you all right thank you chief >> thank you and and just uh last thing I was going to >> 315, 150 calls for service is what uh we currently per year well this is actually till October of last year that we were we had attended we I think we we hit 378,000 calls per year if you look at the at the 911 calls abandoned calls that means that the calls that we didn't get to 14,77 and this is the reason why there's a dire need for 911 center operation renewal because of this means that we cannot let this happen. So, we've been getting a lot better because we've been tracking this and we've been putting more personnel, but at the end of the day, we need to make sure that we create the right environment for it. And the last thing I'm going to say, I fully support as as your chief, our health department and fully support our fire department. I've been there firsthand and I've seen the the horrible areas that they're working in and you you some of you have already seen them. So, as your chief, I fully support health and fire. Just put it out there. >> All right. [laughter] >> Thank you, Mayor. Go ahead. >> Just a last comment on the the 911 center. Um, so again was able to see the 911 center and I don't if if it's the size of a large hotel room. I think you know that's that's a a big thing. Um I I you have so many people working dedicated. We saw the operations there. a lot of technology fielding of calls and I I agree with you that there's a huge need to have people who deal in they're dealing with very stressful situations um dealing sometimes with life [clears throat] and death. I I really appreciate the fact that you're trying to incorporate the school district so that there's better communication because better communication leads to more efficiency and in the end that's better for everyone. Um and and just that there is a need for that 911. Thank you. >> Thank you c. So, I'll add it and then send it back to MA to management and then we'll get back to you. >> All right. >> Thank you. >> Okay. Thank you, Chief. [clears throat] >> Mayor. >> Yes. >> Mayor, >> go ahead. Uh just wanted to uh before fire uh starts uh throw something out there for the for the mayor and council's consideration for both departments. I was the liaison assigned to to both departments for for uh to walk through their proposal. The equipment is very important as well. So PD's left out um equipment uh and vehicles are very important. And I think the public wants the fire trucks, the ambulances, the police cars to be available for them. So, um I know that the chief put two uh priorities forward, but as administration, we see the necessity of the other equipment as well for your consideration. So, let's not limit the scope on PDS only for those two. I think we need to go bigger uh for uh the priorities. Uh I think that the public needs the response of the officers there and the chief already advised us uh management that his request that the next budget cycle cycles a minimum of 85 cars >> and and uh that will just take out almost all of our CO money period just with with that. And so uh just for your consideration um PD PD and fire the equipment is very important. I mean that's what the disc for this. >> Okay. Thank you >> mayor. >> Yes. >> Can last time I had a question about that you know if we added the the Thank you mayor. Sorry I had I had a question about if we added the the vehicles and what happened if the bond referendum let's say that the vehicles didn't or let's say the the referendum didn't pass. what would happen to the vehicles or were we able to they get more vehicles or how are we going to be uh pay for those vehicles or get get vehicles for for the for PD and for and for fire. So I get an explanation but can we go a little more detail? I see Mr. Inosa if you can give me a >> an explanation of of how >> Yeah. Um one of the things that Mr. Inosa is here to he is our financial advisor. Thank you for pointing that out. >> Let's have Mr. Hosa come up here and gives that information. >> So I'll be very brief record. Jay Waters ML Park is important bond council. I do the legal side. He does the finance side. Uh, so what I was mentioning last time is if the bond election were to fail for vehicles, there are other financial tools like tax notes instead of COS that you all can issue. U so I'll defer to Mr. Nosa on any financial considerations that you all need to take into that and whether or not that would be something feasible from his financial perspective. >> Um, [clears throat] yeah, I think there are other tools to to address, you know, personal property needs. we can do contractual obligations, tax notes, and so on so forth. Um, uh, personally over the last, uh, I guess several years that we've been here, uh, personal property equipment I rather not put in in the referendum because that's something you need. And, and many cities run through vehicles either three years, four years, sometimes seven years if you have ladder fire trucks. Those can last a little longer than than the norm. So we try to put that apart. The concerns that I have about issuing or doing notes or something really short is that when you look at the overall debt of the city, it's like a water slide. So you have a lot of capacity to do a lot of things like personal property or other unexpected improvements that you may need from one day to the other and not impact the tax rate. So, you know, when it comes to personal property, you know, that that doesn't have to be in the on the referendum. We can do that through many other ways. And that's my observation there. That okay with you, J. >> Okay. Thank you. >> All right. >> Thank you. Just one one more thing, Chief. >> Yes. Go ahead. >> On this uh referendum here, I I'm seeing that it is added here as far as the fleet is concerned. Is that correct with the $176 million? >> So, we had added that and [snorts] that's where I was going. But the when we did the uh the uh the numbers for the contingency, it kind this is where we're going to give you what we're the ask is because we had added those cars. But uh Tuesday's conversation kind of changed the way we were going to be doing this ask because of the fact that we don't know if if we should add them and then we're not going to be able to go out and do. >> But as it stands now, it's included in there at the 176. But we're going to we're going to remove that and add the contingency for the buildings and then the same the same the same uh kit the the same safety center that we're talking about and it's going to go lower that number that you're looking at. Yeah, >> correct. >> But the vehicles are >> but the vehicles are out. >> The vehicles are out. >> Yeah, that's the problem. >> The vehicles are >> and that's a concern. >> It certainly is. Yeah. >> Yes. Go ahead. Mr. M. >> Mr. responses from the mayor >> to clarify that initially on the 176 like you mentioned council Gutierrez the 1776 included the cards but now as as the chief is proposing to make some changes but is it is part of the 176 in front of you in the department [clears throat] >> yeah go >> Mr. Mr. Nebs, can you explain to us why is it a concern that we add those cars or we can't fund those cars and in the coming um >> yeah, mayor and mayor and city council council member the the concept of adding the cars was based upon what Mr. Warez was talking about as our bond council as well too. If it fails in the bond referendum, we have alternative ways. It doesn't eliminate the ability to buy the cars. Our fear when we were talk when we first started the conversation on Tuesday was is that if the bond fails then we can't go back for three years and that's just only on the the referendum itself. The idea about putting the vehicles in there and taking a chance on that is the number of vehicles that they need updated. It's a it's a big number to bring them all up to date. They they come up a lot quicker if they're in the bond referendum. uh we could petition them out over a couple years where the debt doesn't come in at all at one time and it comes in at in a period of time. So, so the the thought process on that and going back off of what our bond council was saying is that if it does if it was to fail within the bond referendum, we still can get the vehicles through exactly what Mr. Henola is saying is that there are other methods. So, it really becomes a a consideration for you as the elected official as to whether or not you want to you want to add those items with into the structure of what the chief is trying to do at the police department or if you think that we we just want to go to the option B, option C as to how to get that done. We just know that their vehicles wear out very quickly within five years. We need to get we have a number of them that are in um well I'm just going to say questionable shape. I I think they do a great job with their equipment but they they use them and so that so that would that's the only reason I think we're putting it out there saying >> is going out there. >> Yeah. Go ahead. >> Yeah. Uh, the only thing I don't see is going out for referendum, asking for so so much amount of money, then having the the the the life the the the life expenses of this car for two years, three years. And that's saying that you won't have an accident or god forbidden an accident in our case that we have often here in in in the rad u you know that that's that's something that we got to consider as well. >> Yeah. and council member and that that is that is part of that whole strategy of looking through exactly where it is, right? Because the the vehicles don't they have a 5-year life expectancy within the police department. Uh but then I would go back to what uh council member King has said as well too about when you look at San Antonio structure, they're going out every 5 years. We could establish a vehicle bond question, you know, and and it doesn't have to cloud up everything that we're doing. We can we can establish that. There's a lot of good lessons out of San Antonio for that. They got a facilities bond. They've got a, you know, they they do their structure a little bit differently. So, uh, we're moving that way. >> Mayor, if I may. >> Yes. Go ahead. >> Uh, I was going to mention that, um, you know, I know I know, um, Chief Landine just talked about, you know, asking for things and and and the needs, but, uh, I think, um, the conversation can't come from the standpoint that this is going to be an automatic yes. We still have to have and I think that's where we're all coming from is like I think this is a good vis like a good um kind of like um exercise for for in like where we are representing the we're looking at it from what can the people afford versus management coming to us with what the city needs and trying to find that balance. And so this is kind of like what we're tasked with. It would be nice to say yes to it all, but realistically, we know that this is going to be uh a tough cell as is, as requested. So, I don't think it, you know, I don't think we could realistically look at this from the standpoint of, well, it's going to pass, so let's just ask for everything. >> I think we need to start thinking about what what can we do without now? And I've, you know, for example, the public work, uh, the the paving presentation, it was broken down out by four years. If we have the capacity to bond out every 3 years, then why are we talking now about something that's budgeted out for four years? Why not just talk about what we can do in the in the next 3 years before we can come back and ask for [clears throat] the rest for the following? Um I think there's a disconnect between the ask and when it's going to come into play versus um uh because right now it's going to be a big lump, right? So um [snorts] I know that police has a big need. you know, we're talking about building these buildings that have gone, you know, out like pushed out a long time and we want to help and we want to help make it happen, but we don't want to put so many things in there that the public says we can't, you know, we would be okay with, let's say, an extra $10, $20 a month, but we're not okay with an extra $100 a month. And that's kind of where where we're at here, right? So if this is something that we can, you know, get some of these things now and then the public starts to see that we've made these improvements in terms of better response time, better efficiency, more services, then in 3 years when we come back, I don't think they would have an issue granting us another, you know, chunk so that we can continue progressing. So that's where I I I feel like, you know, we could we want to throw in whatever we can and and ask for what we can, but we want it to be successful and we want it to pass. >> Yeah. >> Yes. Go ahead, Council. >> I mayor, um, and just along the the same lines, I don't think enough emphasis or consideration is being tak is is being taken um with what Mr. You know, Jose said like we need to and and even us being advised like if our bond council is saying let's not um let's not throw in all of the items that are going to last 5 to 10 years because that our our people are going to carry that for 30 that >> I there needs to be I agree with council and councilman Pettis you know doing doing this we have the the bond council here. They're advising us, you know, we've never been se we've never seen it. You know, we don't recommend to do that. Uh right now it's like okay we need this these vehicles but like Councilman Pettis said um we can do it the first three years next three years let's say we go out for this bond our our our wanted is to a minimum and we you know we we started showing we got better surveillance response time you know uh along the things that Miss uh Miss Pettis said then we can go out and go out for a bigger chunk of money and say you know what this this is what we done. We can go we have proof and show the community and say, "Hey, we have all this. We've done all this, but we need your support. We need your help >> and so we can get go out and get more money." So, you know, that's why I got to agree and say that we do have the bond council to uh to tell us, you know, to recommend their options >> and and mayor and city council know that as I've talked with all our departments and everything, any anything that you do to help support any of this helps us all do our jobs better. I mean, we're where we're at today for that. I guess when I when I think about the vehicles, it's the same thing with with the uh the the vests that they wear, the the the tasers that they have to carry and everything. A vehicle is something that they they are in >> 24/7 and and that's the only reason. But I agree with exactly what you're saying is that we want to make sure because I you have to prioritize what we need. We can't absorb it all at one time. We can't make up the difference for our growing community all in one year or one one cycle. The the [snorts] whole challenge though is that and the only thing I wanted to make sure as you strategize as to how we do this, we also don't we want to watch out for voter fatigue as well too. We don't want to put things out there too often where the voters are saying we're back again, right? We're back again. And so I think that's the one thing you >> let me let me just clarify me and myself and I don't know about my rest of my colleagues and I imagine they they do they get calls you know recommending things often saying hey we need this s why guys why do you guys don't do this and and this so I think going out to them and give them the option or or getting them involved I think that's more that's something they're trying to figure out so going out for reference randoms. Sometimes it's the the best things we we should do for the community, right? Uh going back to the to the to the vehicles, you know, maybe we won't have the budget that that we need, the the budget that we need, but we are going to have in case that we do need the vehicles, we got to get them regardless because we got to have our safety, public safety out there surve surveilling and, you know, protecting and you know, uh patrolling the the the road. So even though we don't have the budget, we got to find the budget. >> So that's >> I I just want mayor I just wanted to make sure I laid that out there. And >> mayor, >> yes, go ahead. >> Just like with the Hamilton, is there any way may um Mr. Neb and you know No, that we could um maybe put together if we were to leave out the vehicles from the referendum, but we were going to finance them with this method and maybe sell a bond just for that. I mean, if you're saying there's other vehicles for the vehicles, um, [laughter] >> tools. >> Yeah. >> So, um, if there's other options, then maybe we can >> Here's the risk. >> You got to run public safety. Whether you pass a referendum, whether you call a referendum or you don't call a referendum, you got to run public safety. If you put this initiative in the referendum and specifically says, "I need this equipment." and he fails, how you going to run that? Because you can't you can't use any funding other funding tools for the purpose that you said that you wanted to have the bond referendum approved. So, we're kind of hedging right now outside of the bond referendum, your mortgage payments look like this. So, what I tell you is a water slide. >> You keep revenues at the same level, the yellow line. So, anytime that the bond payment drops, think about you having a mortgage or two or three. And as you're paying off those mortgages, then you you pay less money because now you [clears throat] got rid of one mortgage. Well, outside of the bond referendum, we have a very formidable, very friendly annual payment structure. It looks like that your revenues are here. Well, if you keep the revenues constant, which you will by virtue of keeping the tax rate, then you fill in the capacity. When you ask me, uh, Councilman King, what capacity we had, and I said to you, 30, I think we borrowed like 35 or 36, something to that effect. Because interest rates fluctuate as I'm making representations to you. I'm also mindful of the fact that property values increase. We just don't know at what rate. But what we do know is that if you can preserve your income stream as you do as you have and you're paying off this mortgages very quickly, then that gives capacity not only for equipment but other needs that he is going to need that right now we cannot tell you. What we have before you is a five-year capital plan that needs to be bonded for. If you're saying, "Oh my goodness, this is too big of a number." If you decide to go with something smaller, that's your prerogative as a council. You can do whatever you want to do. We need guidance from you. The task given to us was in within your province or whatever information you may have, work with the committee, tell us what you need for the next five years. And that's the number 540 something to that effect, right? More or less for mas. So basically now you got to tell us, okay, uh, do we call that 540? Do we call something less? Can we live with something less? What we want from you is, uh, give us the ability to have more tax revenue streams so we can do more. You know, I was looking at I was comparing Lar to other cities in Texas. that I think is like the 12th largest in the state. I'm one of the top 25 cities [cough] and only Macallen has less debt than you in terms of property tax supported debt. I was looking at the numbers. You got like like $350 million of property tax supported debt, but 150 is paid by our children. You know, those landfills and solid waste and so on so forth. So, we got this water and sewer pays off property tax supported debt. So what impacts the property tax rate is about 200 million. Every other city in Texas has more debt than you do. So we very well manage managing that debt. So if you pass no bond referendums, we go back to what's the capacity. The band-aid approaches I've always called it. You know, you had Mr. Orila coming before you. He's spending $45 million a year for streets. Can you do a little bit more? It's up to you. What we try to do on our side is provide you with a nimble debt structure. But if you tell us we want to call upon referendum, we want to be transparent, then then if you're doing that, then you got to tell the taxpayer. But if I do this, it's going to cost three cents, 5 cents, a dime, whatever. If you look at the tax rate, I'm on the top 25 cities. I think the city ADO is like number number eight in the lowest tax rates in the state. I mean among the top 25 cities, not not every city in the state. So what does that mean? What that means is that [clears throat] you're in a very you know we do we do something like this and I can provide this to to staff so they can forward it to you. But what I want you to you know when you say how do I compete against others you know you you are in a position to where you can compete against you have a very very stable rating very stable rate your rate right now correct me if I'm wrong is 50.76 51 cents >> so has a total tax rate you're number 10 in the state so if you call the bond election and let's say the impact is five or 10 cents then I take a look What would happen if where would the where would the city's ranking be if you go higher, let's say by by 10 cents? [clears throat] You' be number 13 in the state and you're the 12th largest. So it's not like you're going to be an outlier. >> So the rating agencies are not going to go, "Oh my god, what are y'all doing?" No, we and we and I've been monitoring this stuff for 20 years now. so that when we come before you, I have a piece of mind that we're going to preserve the rating. And and like anything, uh we represent bigger cities like San Antonio and Dallas. Dallas lost the AAA rating many years ago because Booties felt like you're not doing enough. I mean, you got a lower tax rate. You're being very conservative, but you're not doing enough to remain attractive for investment to come in, for businesses to come in. So guess what happened that I mean Dallas had to call B elections after B elections. So we we just did I think a billion four last fall for them and and those are the kind of things that that take a long time to kind of rebuild. So so we try to find from you and I don't know Mr. Ne is appropriate is just a little guidance. We're [clears throat] very I'm I'm actually was telling him by text that I'm actually very impressed that you guys have been very re respectful to each other and reasonable and even to staff. I'm glad I'm standing next to the chief. Uh but but I just feel like if you give us support for whatever you think is proper because you're going to have to be the ones carrying the flag for all of us and what we want you to do is be successful. We want you to pass it so that we can all celebrate. But uh but whatever you decide, I want to tell you that I'll be I won't be shy. I'll come up here and tell you what are y'all doing. You're going to be getting out of the box and we don't want you to get out of the box. And whatever you decide, if you want to put equipment, I do believe that equipment can be funded separate and apart. Would it take capacity from from from other CEOs or whatever? He probably will. But I mean, this bond referendum is very very fun. It's very important for for you to become maybe more credible out there, too. because we want to be credible, right? So, Sure. Mayor, >> if I may close out what I was trying to say to the council, just for clarification, >> we want to put it out there that the that the asks from both chiefs are very large for vehicles in the coming budget. And because of that, the capacity for the other projects that you have in mind for your districts may not be there. And so to be transparent with you all on that sense. Um but we're recommending a combination of this bond for the for the buildings and stuff like the chief is presenting the fire chief and uh but there also is a heavy need for those vehicles especially for the police department that has 85 minimum next year and that's going to affect the bigger picture of all the SEO money. So I may I go ahead I have a quick question and bear with me while I ask or help help me ask this question but so by attempting to transfer some costs from the an immediate um absorption like um okay wait so by attempting to transfer costs from general fund or the >> obligation the bonds um to a 30-year bond so we can have room for projects next year. How much is that ultimately going to cost the payer? Like I I want what what is that what is that number? So, so let me tell you. >> What are we actually saving or is it it's actually it's in in the long run it's going to >> those are great questions but you're combining something the last 3 years with something that may last 20 30 years if you put the healthc care facility or or the parks. >> No, I but yes I I mean like the things the things that are that are short >> they're short and we're we're we're funding that with your bond. >> Yeah. So the lender the lender looks at this big package. Kind of like when you buy a house, you got to furnish it, right? Sometimes you get a mortgage that includes furniture and the lender says the first three years or five years is going to be for the personal property. The sixth and beyond is for the brick and mortar. That's what a rating agency that's how we see it. Well, we do cos for you. We put equipment in there and sometimes I accelerate the payment of the cos on the front end to justify because we're doing more equipment than we're doing brick and mortar. When we do the geos, if you get the the the fortune of of the support of the public, we will do a 30-year financing or 25 years, whatever that whatever we think is is practical. And if we have a lot of equipment in there, we accelerate the bond payment. In fact, so you know, [laughter] if you get approval for 500 million and you give us a dime of a tax rate, I want to raise Well, I I want to do I want to make my life easier. May not be easier for you, but but we raise 10 cents immediately so that you can pay that debt very quickly because very likely three years from now or five years from now, you're going to need to come up with another referendum. And what we would like to do, what we always do with our clients is structure payoff quickly so that you can do more capital improvements and you become more credible with the voters and earn earning their trust. So going back to to voter fatigue or election after election, you have one shot at earning their trust and that's the very first time. And fortunately or unfortunately, the public today looks at everything. And going back to your equipment, don't get too blinded by the the three-year car or the 5-year car being financed over 30 because we're not financing just a car. We're going to put one package, one bond issue for $100 million that happens to have eight or nine for equipment. You in your mind, you see it over 30 years. In our minds, the rain agencies which give you a double A credit, they don't see it like that. They see the first payments, just think about it. The principal payments occur in year one through year 7. And very likely that'll be more than $9 million on the front end and then the rest of it, the other 91 million go for brick and motor, which goes all the way to 30th year. So don't, you know, because you're pay you're doing a one master loan. Other if I was doing a lease then I would do the lease or a personal public property finance contraction obligation I would do it within 10 years or eight years but if I do a CL that complements the lease or compliments the PPFC I will wrap the CL around this payment because what I want you to do is stay practical in case issues come up that you may not see from one year to the next. So, don't get don't don't don't feel too bad about it because every city does it and you got to survive in the good times and in the bad times. I hope I helped. I don't know. I know you may have a a fundamental uh you know issue [clears throat] with it, but but when it comes to finance, think about it like this, too. You buy a a house, you have the option of paying a 30-year mortgage or a 15-year mortgage. >> But you don't take out a would would you take out a 30-year mortgage on a house that's going to collapse in 15? >> Yes. If if I can if I can take my kids to eat, you know what? If I could get a loan for 30 years on a on a house that collapsed in 15, I still have to take my kids out to eat. I still have to clothe them. still have to pay for tuition or travel. Maybe that's quality of life because you still this city one of the things that that sometimes we get lost. This city is going to survive you certainly it's going to survive me, right? But uh it's going to survive all of us. This city has to be open for business 24/7. These people here have to work 24/7 and and the the taxpayer, you know, he goes he works 40 hours. this city doesn't. So, we have to stay practical, nimble in case something comes up like a waterline breaking. You know, one of the concerns that I have right now is is uh building the savings account in the general fund. So, we'll talk about that later, but but uh but you know, to me, don't be too hard on yourselves because you've done a good job with the finances, the debt finances of the city. You're in a good position to do great things. But anyway, >> so Mayor, what he's recommending is a combination, which is basically what we're saying. >> Yes. Okay. >> Just real quick, I forgot to thank uh Mr. uh Charez. He is our chairman for the committee. I think Rick is here and somebody else is here. So just thanking them for for their work and their effort. I mean, they they pretty much put a lot of meetings in play and pretty much went into depth into our our public safety committee. So I want I really want to thank you for being here today. >> All right. Thank you, Chief. And thank you for them. >> Chief. >> Oh, I see Chief. [laughter] >> Last one. >> Sorry, Mayor. Mayor, may make a a comment. U this is a special meeting and special meetings have to end by 10:30. Just so you know, you cannot till 11. >> All right. >> I was going to do a 45minut presentation. [laughter] >> So go ahead, Chief. >> I I'll give you the condensed version of my all the fire department does. I know they say we're a needy department and we are. >> Uh G Maher, fire chief, emergency management coordinator, city of Laredo. Uh thank you, mayor, council, management for having us present our uh five-year plan to you all for the needs that we have for the fire department in order to continue serving this great city here. Some of these things are repeated, so I'm just going to go to the main parts uh that are related to the ask that we're going to be doing. Um, so one of the big things here that what we're asking is what we're asking in our in our bond referendum are specifically facilities, equipment, and vehicles. And I gave you a presentation there where it shows the the studies to specifically related to the request that we're doing is but one of the things that I have here in my presentation is that the last time that we added a fire station, which is the Celitoindo fire station, was in 2003. That's over 20 years ago. Since then the city has annexed over 30 square miles. So at that time the b the city was about 89 square miles and then since that we've add annexed about 30 square miles. Uh we have relocated and we've have remodeled stations but we haven't really added to the amount of uh stations to the city that has had. So uh the city as we all know as as mayor you say in u presentations is the fastest if if if not the fastest growing city and it is is the largest landport in the western hemisphere. We have a lot of needs we have it's growing rapidly at the same time emergency service fire and police at the same time too and it is a challenge there. Uh we've seen uh it's been a challenge for us to respond quickly to the calls but we do uh uh traffic is a concern too and inside the city too it's one of the things that I was asked as a fire chief is why would a citizen inside the city care that we're a building that we have needs outside the city and it's because it directly impacts them too because right now in order for us to respond to the outer parts of the city we have inner stations that respond on the outside. So essentially you take from Peter to pay Paul. So our outlier areas where we need the fire stations is the the cities inside are there the ones covering and then there when there's a call in that area another city had another station has to supplement too. So, so it it's a very it's a very uh uh challenging thing for us to continue responding within the recommended response time that we were supposed to have for every emergency call, fires, medical calls, hazmat, and rescue training and rescues. Um we hired a consultant that was recommended by some of the other cities, some my colleagues. He came down uh professional engineer and he did a a master station location study uh and then he identified which we we were aware of of some of the uh needs that we had that we were short three fire stations. One fire station in South Ledo, one fire station by mile marker 1315 and another fire station that is supposed to be there by Mines Road and the Green Ranch area. And then he also identified that we needed a fire truck to respond uh by the 5if 59 and loop 20 area there to respond. Uh we have a station at the TAMU area and then one by the sack but there is a gap there that we that is recommended that we have a fire station. He also identified that we needed to move our ladder trucks. Our ladder trucks are our big fire trucks. I want to have the ladder on top. Uh although we might not have many skyscrapers here in the city or large tall buildings but we do need we do need a lot of large volume of water for warehouses big big uh structure fires and that's what specifically those ladder trucks provide. So those ladder trucks were recommended to get moved from the Celito Lindo area to the Sigaroa station and then from the Sam's station to the Mines Road area. When we did that too, while we were responding more efficiently, we we increased the number of fire st firefighters at those stations. Those stations were not built for that many firefighters. So, we increased the capacity. Now, my firefighters are there. They're ready. Do not complain. But, we've identified here an opportunity to remodel and and modernize those stations for our firefighters. Uh we also did a another uh visibility study that was done uh during when Chief Landine was our fire chief that the station that's at the airport in front of the main PD headquarters is supposed to be moved a little bit further to the McFersonson Cton area in order to provide services for that area. Right now we have that fire station in right there beside the airport which as the airport director says that it's in prime real estate property that he wants he would like for us to vacate that area but I would like to vacate that area too. Uh but that's another uh ne another area that we identified that we need to relocate that fire station. So currently uh part of our strategic plan is and in the last um budget cycle since I've been here council mayor you've been very supportive. We started the process of building the south station the north station uh and we've relocated and we've relocated those those fire trucks those ladder trucks too. Here's a quick overview of our response area. On the right hand side is a map. All the little red house, little red houses are where our fire stations are. And on the left hand side is our our city's broken up into three districts, three emergency districts, south, middle, and north. Each district has a incident commander, which is a chief. Uh when there's a major call, there's a certain incident command system that works. When we have a major incident, usually a fire, there there is so many fire trucks and ambulance that go, you have so many captains. you in each area you need to have an incident commander which is as we know is a white shirt. So there's a certain incident command system. So the city's broken up into three different areas too. This shows a quick overview of the areas that we need the new fire stations to. So one by mile marker 15, one by the minesro green ranch area and one by the bua vista area and the fire truck 2 that is there by loop 20. That's where we need a firet truck also to respond. So the importance of ISO designation. So it's something that that I've had the opportunity to talk to you about. It basically says how efficient we are at conserving property. The the two main missions that we have in the fire department are save lives and conserve property. So this the ISO rate the ISO rating says how efficient we are at doing that at conserving property. Uh we are fortunately through the support of mayor, council, management, we we recently got that ISO designation of one. Uh there's only a small percentage of fire departments in the United States that have that ISO designation. I've been told uh by our consultant and uh talking to other fire chiefs and I've seen also uh headings from mayors and city managers that say that big companies when they relocate they look at three major things. quality of life for their employees, tax abatement and ISO ratings. The fire marshall is here and he can attest to say that he they do get frequent phone calls that say, "What is your ISO rating?" ISO rating directly impacts the insurance of the businesses and the residents too at the same time. One of the best big asks that I I've been at that we're asking for is the facility improvement, new fire stations and also the remodeling and relocation of some of our fire stations. We did an assessment study of our stations. 50% of our fire stations are over 50 years old. I've been I've been told before about our fire stations is um uh that we we we hired a specific architect for our fire stations because they're they're not offices. They're they're homes for our firefighters. 24 hours on and 48 hours off. That's that's what a firefighter schedule is. Onethird of their career they spent it at a fire station. So that's where they live with where they eat. That's where they wait for the calls. studies show specifically the way that a fire station is designed directly impacts the life of a firefighter. When I was had when I had the opportunity to give the presentation to the bond committee, I I was going over the life expectancy of of our firefighters and I mentioned um to one of and and I had the opportunity to mention it and I said the national life expectancy of a firefighter is 62 years old. Uh, and then I I think the one of the bond committee members uh heard me correctly and she thought that was the retirement age. No, I said that's the life expectancy of a firefighter. You know, there has been great advances in firefighting and and the U gear that we wear, but I know so many firefighters that they retire and Chief Landink can test to this is they retire and a couple years later they they pass away. You know, it is inherently a very very tough job. the chemicals that we are exposed to, the sleep deprivation. So, the stations that we're asking to remodel, uh, we're asking to modernize them. Um, certain things that we can do at certain stations can reduce that. Uh, I I I as a chief, I always tell my young firefighters, start taking your care of yourselves now. I want you to enjoy your retirement as you deserve as you deserve to. And there are certain things that we can do at certain fire stations uh that we can modernize them uh that can decrease cancer risks. You know, uh also sleep deprivation leads to PTSD and anxiety too. A person that has PTSD, anxiety is more prone for cancer, too. uh the new fire stations and the new ones that we're getting to design uh like the one at your district, Councilman Gonzalez, uh there's going to be a certain u there's going to be like a decontamination area, a whole uh cold, a warm, and a hot zone. And that's why I wanted uh get the opportunity to design the new fire stations, too. So, that that is why that is why I'm I put in the bond proposal to to remodel mo some of the fire stations, phase them in. You know, a couple years ago, we were able to modernize a couple of the fire stations when Chief Landine was uh the the fire chief, and right now taking the opportunity to modernize some of the other fire stations, too. These are the main priorities that were were that I put initially from the bond committee. I know uh from the presentation that the budget director have there has been some changes, but this have been the main priorities that I have put is the new stations is is three new stations. one in South Florida, Buenav Vista, mile marker 15, and the mines in the green ranch area. Remodeling is the the fire shop that we have, the station by Mines Road, the station by Saroa, the station that's over there by Pintoay, our training field, the station that's by Bartlett, uh the station that's by Houston right down the street, and our fire administration building. And and I put those in in order of priority. uh relocation also of the station that's by by May her that's the one that's by the airport and the station number three which is the one here by uh by Martin that station's been active since 1939 and on the other side I have what we need for those stations land acquisition the design the vehicles needed for those fire stations the equipment portable gear uh portable radio uh uh 911 antenna uh we've also updated our our active shooter responses. Um, now studies show and we're working diligently with LPD is we've moved now when we respond, we don't wait on the outside of incidents like a of a school, let's say. Uh, we that's the world we live in now. We've we've trained our firefighters now that we actually go inside. We don't carry weapons unless unless you're an arson investigator, but the PD will create a warm zone for us where we can treat patients quicker. But with that, I also need to equip my firefighters with the right equipment. Ballistic vest, ballistic helmet. So, that's also something that I'm making a request here. They're very expensive, too. And in order to equip all my fire trucks and then my ambulances, that's why I put that here, too. Uh, storage containers specifically for training um breathing apparatus, uh, units, and technical rescue equipment. Here's a breakdown of of my ass. I was asked to prioritize them by by uh by priorities. And this is how I prioritize them by year. I have more detail there for you and your slides. I also get put your stud I put my studies there specifically on why I'm asking for what what specifically I'm asking for and either than that I can go more specific into the presentation or I can I can stand by Mayor, can I ask him? >> Yes. Go ahead. >> Chief, I know that you and I hadn't had a chance to sit down. Uh I think your presentation was and I read through most of it already. Um obviously it's elaborate, but I think uh Mr. Mosa thr's for a loop right now. Um you know, obviously now that it's it's it's said that go ahead and throw equipment in there. And it it it raises a new level of of not concern for me but uh of thinking right. Um I think everything that you say is is is right. I think the the idea that mental health to not only our police department and to our firefighters is at the top of my list that we take care of them first and you guys first. If you're considering to put these quiet rooms and and to have these uh um de decompression rooms and all that kind of stuff in there, I am all in on that because that's the new wave of thinking and that's thinking outside the box that gives longevity to our people and we have to take care of our people first. So I commend you for that. I think the numbers are speak for themselves. I just don't know where on Calton and McFerson you were thinking of putting it. I was thinking though now that you said that >> that Y Street that's there. I don't know if that's airport property. I don't want to have anything to do with that those people. >> It's not. We we've sent a letter of interest. I I asked management. I won't get too specific because it's just a letter of interest, but for the different stations that we've asked to remodel and relocate. There is specific areas that we have in mind. Letters of interest has been sent already. I've worked with the real estate department under community development and and we have an approximation of the cost on there too. But we we we do have um an idea where we would want those stations. And I you you're correct. That is one of the areas that we we are considering. That would be a prime location and would fit a a fire station there. The fire station that I would see there is like the size like the one in front of Tammy U. >> Yes. >> That that's the type of fire station I would need. Two bays there. I think would be uh a fire truck and an ambulance would serve the would serve your area very well, council member, too. uh but we we've already started uh with the permission of managing of course of reaching out and just interest because of course it's all dependent on this and I do have the approximation of what I think reasonably working with real estate with the price would be and and going back to the what you're mentioning about the wellness and the mental health with that um it shows now that the specific lighting or the way that our firefighters are are awakened really impacts our firefighters too. So, I know one of the things here, um, we we've done a lot for mental health, you know, and and, uh, right now we're actually doing a mental health training with our fire department. I know we had the opportunity, council approved of us, uh, uh, we hired our own psychologist and actually she's here, Dr. Duno is here that she wanted to come see the presentation, but she she is guiding our firefighters. She is guiding me on on certain things that uh, what she what would help on best practices and help reduce the stress on our firefighters, too. So, first and foremost, like Mr. Neb has says, we need to take care of the people that take care of everybody else, too. So, um on on and and uh well, I'll stop on there. So, because I can keep >> Well, just that I was going to tell you that I I agree with you on that. I think I think we'd be uh incredibly um um irresponsible if we don't start thinking outside the box. and and and I know I know we're trying to do it I'm prolonging I'm doing this know it be irresponsible of us for us to to not even consider those type of things in this day and age that all the data is out there and and and we don't think like that and and we have that old school thinking and some of the ways to tough it out um we're not giving longevity to our people. So that was just my point. Thank you >> mayor. I what I'm hoping to do in just the last few minutes. Thank you so much for all your time and everything. But what I wanted to do is have Mr. Warez come up. This is the this is the draft document. This ordinance will be the draft document that has the questions for the election. So I want him to explain the body of this and then Mr. Ma and Mr. Esparza is going to cover how we're going to help you walk through all of this information because what we're going to do I believe we're going to send you the spreadsheet and let you go through you'll have all the all the stuff and you'll be able to adjust it and then I will recommend that we come back on the February 10th the Monday to finalize this information and if we can get it all done on that day then that's fine. If not, we have to have it done by fe February 14th. We'll just put in an extra blessing meeting for whatever that information is. And so, uh, >> Mayor >> Yes. Go ahead. >> Can I request that we be pulled for the 10th versus the 11th just for >> Yes, ma'am. Yes, ma'am. Yeah, I'm I'm I'm happy to. >> Yes, >> I'll I'll help with that. Go ahead. >> So, Mr. Morris, >> your meeting have to end at 10:30? >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Be very quick. uh the election ordinance. I think the most important paragraphs I want to draw your eye to are the measures have measures A, B, C, D, E, and F. Those are for each category of projects that we have been presented today. Um what we need finalized before the you all meet to call the election is the measure language, the amount, and the proposition language. The measure is what's legally binding. The proposition is what's on the ballot. The proposition is very short form. Um I know uh councilwoman Sigara talked about wanting all the roads in front of the voters. So that would be in the proposition. Uh that's how city of Corpus Christie does it. City of San Antonio has them in the measure so the ballot isn't so long. That's happy to answer any questions. >> I I think it pres it presents a lot of reading opportunity for the voters. Uh sorry. Go ahead. No, go ahead. Go ahead. >> Well, I'm at I'm at green over here. >> No, go ahead. >> Okay. Okay. Well, anyway, >> okay, there it is. Uh, it presents a lot of reading opportunity for the voter. I'm not sure that uh um it's sort of like they're going to see the blank space and they're going to see the number >> without reading it through. I don't know if it can be oversimplified simplified a little bit more because I just see the paragraph and then the >> so if you look at the proposition which is the second one so the measures are actually what's legally binding they're a lot longer but if you go further down >> there are several several propositions those are very short phrases and that's what's going to be on the ballot that the voter >> oh the ballot that's that these first ones are not going to be on the ballot these are the ones >> yeah right >> okay man >> yes go ahead Do we have the possibility to I mean put out that and then have more explanations more language that explains >> we can >> that that is at the discretion of council. Yes ma'am. >> Yes. Go ahead. >> Mr. just um you have it in there at the at the current requested rate and then at I'd like to see what it would look like at at the $300 million rate, $350 million rate. This slide shows the um the 400 million and 500 million have in here. Yes. >> So, what we're going to do is we're going to email this a spreadsheet. We're going to lock some of the fields. And this is the summary page. Summary CM. This summary page brings everything from the individual page. So, when you look at the individual pages, this blue what says council is where you can drop in a number that you have in mind. And then what that's going to do, it's going to populate this summary page here. And as you scroll down, it'll show you the total amount that we have for the financing here. And then it'll give you the breakdown of the cents and the impact on the $200,000 home. >> Okay. May >> Yes. >> Um, so we had some Mr. Nev, we had some spec or I had some specific requests from the parks department to have more information about what their proposals would be. Is there a way to get that done and then mail it, email it out to us? >> Yeah. Yeah. Mayor and city council, what we'll do is we'll take all the questions that need to be spelled out a little bit farther. We we'll do that because I think we can do that same thing with the streets as well, too, so you have an idea of where we're focused on. We'll do the same thing with parks and recreation and any of the other things. What what we're going to do is we'll get you the spreadsheet information in a spreadsheet format so that you can kind of go through and and highlight the ones that you believe are are the most highest priority >> and then we'll pull the other ones off and then we'll we'll consolidate I hope to consolidate that before we get back together as well too. >> But yes, yeah, we'll we'll uh parks and recck heard exactly what you guys were all asking for as well too. We'll make sure that those questions are provided with answers and we'll get them out to each every one of you. And also, if I may, short real quick, we have two minutes. Um, I know you you will be out all of next week, so that even makes it more critical. So, hopefully you get to play around with the with the spreadsheet so that we can have a hard we can play around with it when we come back on the 10th and and get it ironed out. Uh, so that way we're not, you know, back and forth. >> Yes. >> All right. >> Time out. >> Okay. Any other questions? >> Motion to adjourn. >> Motion second. All in favor? Meeting adjourned.