This transcript is from an Apple Valley **Planning Commission** meeting. While the prompt provides City Council and Department Director names, the speakers in this specific meeting include Planning Commissioners and Planning Staff. Based on the dialogue and the proclamation at the end of the meeting, the Chair is **Jody Kirks**. [0:00] [Music] foreign [Music] foreign [Music] [1:01] **Jody Kirks (Chair):** good evening I called the May 17 2023 Apple Valley Planning Commission meeting to order the first item of business is the approval of the agenda Kathy are there any changes from staff [1:15] **Kathy (Staff):** no changes from Steph manager thank you commissioners [1:18] **Commissioner Schindler:** move approval [1:20] **Commissioner Scanlon:** second [1:22] **Jody Kirks (Chair):** moved by commissioner Schindler and seconded by commissioner Scanlon any discussion if not all those in favor signify by saying aye aye opposed nay motion carries next item of business is the approval of the consent agenda consent agenda items are considered routine and will be enacted with a single motion without discussion unless a commissioner or a citizen request to have any items separately considered it will then be moved to the land use action items for consideration 3A approval from minutes of April 5th 2023 regular meeting what's the pleasure of the commissions [1:55] **Commissioner Schindler:** move approval [1:57] **Commissioner Scanlon:** second [1:58] **Jody Kirks (Chair):** moved by commissioner Schindler and seconded by commissioner Scanlon any discussion if not all those in favor signify by saying aye aye opposed name abstain motion carries next item of business is number four public hearings and looks like there's no public hearings tonight so we move on to number five land use action items Chase Bank at Lunds and Byerly site plan and building permit authorization presenter is Alex Sharp [2:48] **Alex Sharp (City Planner):** thank you chair as stated this is a site plan building program authorization for a second Chase Bank in Apple Valley the action requested this evening is for a site-planned building former authorization for 3 319 square foot Chase Bank facility the formal action will be on the final slide site is located in the southwest corner of 155th Street and Pilot Knob Road at 15580 is a 0.688 acre site and is the final lot left as part of the London buyer lease development the lot already has been final platted so it is the only action required for them to get a building permit is the site plan building permit authorization and then just for clarity banks with drive-throughs do not require conditional use that is only restaurants [3:41] **Alex Sharp (City Planner):** the overall site plan uh was something that staff did request as part of this so that the Planning Commission could see The Pedestrian connectivity and the vehicle connectivity between the sites the site is accessed off of English Avenue through a private access agreement that was established at the time of the final plat Schuler's Shoes and their sidewalk plan is here that connect in and then you'll see that there is sidewalk connection now to Pilot Knob and the rest of the development on the south side of this site this is the Civic Chase Bank site plan this one gets a little bit more difficult to see just because some of the hash marks so I'll move through it a little bit quickly the landscape plan does help quite a bit with being able to identify where everything is on site utilities were established as part of the lens by release project and storm water was treated regionally utilities are coming in from Pilot Knob predominantly and then the storm water system is going to off-site treatment this is the formal utility piece that's showing the uh Power and Gas and Sewer coming from Pilot Knob aspect and then the landscape plan I think shows things a little bit better for you so that's why they spent the time working on the coloration of this one but The Pedestrian connectivity through the overall site with the sidewalks out to Pilot Knob and the drive through with Chase Bank they do have an additional drive-through Lane as well does not look like at this time there is a teller station in that one of the items that I question the staff report is if this is just intended for escape lane or if there is going to be a future teller station in that location because right now the only one is shown on the side of the building landscape plan we do have a couple of comments on so you'll see conditions in the draft resolution that are seeking for additional variability in the species as only one trans plant species is on the site right now we understand that there are concerns with banks and varied species and security so we will be working closely with the applicant on that similarly with the other Chase Bank where we required that a that the utility meters be screened we will be requiring that as well that's in the draft conditions to help offset some of the additional cost of that because that is a semi-unique condition that we've started doing recently you can utilize part of that two and a half percent landscape budget towards the cost of that screening so they will likely have a very similar fence to what is on the existing Chase Bank interior shows that they will have quite a few meeting rooms a couple of offices the exterior is very similar in fact virtually identical to the existing Chase Bank they already did include the additional window that we look for to break up that back wall that was something that we'd sought to try to break up just that rear portion we will require the screening as noted over these utility Banks as we did with the other site other than that all materials are compliant one item that with staff will seek and you'll see a draft condition for is a utility screening plan as part of the for the rooftop Aid track as part of the building permit materials pretty typical for us to receive those at a later date here are the North and South elevations and this is that teller window that I or ATM that I spoke about that you can drive up to and it served and with that because this is a relatively minor item with a site plan building permit authorization the Planning Commission does have the ability to act on it this evening if they so choose we've done this on past projects where it's just a sipeline building from an authorization if there are concerns however we can certainly move this to a second meeting and address some of those concerns with the plants [7:30] **Jody Kirks (Chair):** Commissioners any questions for Alex commissioner Scanlon [7:35] **Commissioner Scanlon:** Alex chair Alex I wasn't able to see what the fine print bike rack yes uh is that to the chair [7:47] **Alex Sharp (City Planner):** Kurtz commissioner Scanlon right now it's not shown on the plans there is a draft condition included in your resolution for that as that is a code provision [7:56] **Commissioner Scanlon:** okay and um we just approved you know um very similar with some minor things for site replacement and so forth so okay any other questions [8:21] **Jody Kirks (Chair):** what's the pleasure of the commission [8:24] **Commissioner Diekman:** and chair a movie recommend approval site plan building permit authorization for a 3319 square foot building for Chase Bank subject to the conditions as I learned in the staff report [8:40] **Commissioner Schindler:** second [8:42] **Jody Kirks (Chair):** that was moved by commissioner Dickman and seconded by commissioner Schindler any discussion if not all those in favor signify by saying I I opposed name motion carries next up is 5B that is asking brunt fancy variance and that is with Kathy [9:22] **Kathy (Staff):** thank you madam chair Planet commissioners uh the petitioner of this request Mr Sir Khan us can request consideration of a variance to construct a front yard fence that's taller than permitted in front yards his property is located at 8106 lower 147th Street West in his action or his his request is for a variance to increase the height of a front yard fence from 3.5 feet to six feet for a 16 foot long fence section along the west property line [10:08] **Kathy (Staff):** the property is Zone PD 341 subzone 1 which allows for smaller lot sizes and narrower Lots the fence regulations are a little bit difficult to read so I won't spend too much time on them but suffice it to say fence regulations are regulated at one five five three five one of the city code and the easiest way to understand it is probably looking at a diagram and that is that offenses that are forward of the front setback line up to the front property line the maximum height in that front yard area is 3.5 feet the petitioner is requesting to be able to extend a fence from the his side yard right in front of his garage a distance of 16 feet and have that fence be six feet tall than he would bring the fence down step it down to a height of 3.5 feet so this is kind of more illustrative 16 feet long section at six feet and then down to three and a half feet tall aerial photo just kind of shows um his driveway he does have a landscaped area in this side yard um additional information will be provided but the neighbor does have a basketball hoop on the side of the property and with that there's quite a bit of difficulty and trespassing and activity and trampling and kind of going onto his property so that's the nature of the request for the taller fence at least for that small section that 16 foot section so this is uh looking from the south and again just another view of the petitioner's property and then the neighbor's property it would be completely on his own property so inside the the property line that side property line this is a street view of the property the basketball hoop is here the the landscaped area that he wishes to improve is the the white rock landscape bed and a fence company has been out so he has located the property line he knows where it's at and one of the conditions will be that it has to be staked and then he has to stay completely on his own property the fence is proposed to be constructed of Cedar privacy fencing and one of the conditions that is proposed is that he would either need to do a two-sided fence or to install a good neighbor fence in other words the Finish side would be toward his neighbors facing his neighbor and then the the bracing and the the back side would be toward his property so practical difficulties when the city reviews a request for a variance we start by looking at the definition of a practical difficulty the applicant proposes to use the property in reasonable manner not permitted by the zoning provisions of the code the plight of the applicant is due to circumstances unique to the property not created by the applicant and the variance if granted will not alter the essential character of the locality economic considerations alone do not constitute practical difficulties so once the city looks at the definition of practical difficulty then the next step is looking at factors our factors met whether a practical difficulty exists special conditions again apply to the structure land in question that are particular to the property granting of the variance will not be contrary to the intent of this chapter special conditions or circumstances do not result from the actions of the owner applicant granting of the variance will not serve as merely a convenience but necessary to alleviate practical difficulties and the variance requested is the minimum variance necessary as I mentioned Mr Ozcan is having difficulty containing the neighbors activities the the sports and outdoor activities are kind of overflowing onto his yard he has spoken with his neighbor and requested that the activity be kept to only their property and apparently he's not getting cooperation with that so the when the idea of doing a thorny shrub or something that was more physically restricting was presented as an option he just felt that wouldn't be successful it wouldn't work balls kids it would get trampled and and not survive so his request is really to do the this the six foot tall fence first for a short ways for the 16 feet and then that should be enough to kind of contain the basketball court part of the driveway and then it would go down to a normal height fence of 3.5 feet so the physical barriers requested is separate and protect the subject property from neighbor activity the height variance is needed to address basketball and other sports and activities that cannot be contained or protected by a 3.5 and Madam chair uh Steph is recommending approval of the variants in the Planning Commission report the the suggested recommendation goes on to talk about the other extension of the fence which isn't necessary so I apologize so as part of the motion it would just be the the the 16 foot section and then the the forward the the fence altogether will be 27 feet long 16 of it would be six feet tall and then 11 feet of it would be the 3.5 feet uh in compliance with the code requirements so staff is recommending conditions fence construction consistent with the site plan and fence detail plan in the packet installed as a good neighbor fence we talked about that Shelby kept in good repair and protected from the elements and then last uh homeowners shall locate property pins and State Property Line locations to ensure the fence is constructed completely on its own property so that's a quick overview and I'd be happy to take questions if there are any of the petitioner is here this evening [17:39] **Jody Kirks (Chair):** Kathy can you go back to that picture showing his front yard please what I've noticed one more back please one more okay this is kind of the only spot where there's two garages next to each other correct [18:03] **Kathy (Staff):** I noticed that everything else is built differently that could very well be Madam chair I did not review it for that but that's a good observation because I was thinking well has anybody else ever done that in the neighborhood and I looked at their garages and it's like the garage isn't next to the other garage so it's kind of different of how this one these two are built right next to each other like that the two garages um is there any visual problem with I know it's 3.5 feet but any snow plows or anything like that coming through is there going to be any visual issues [18:35] **Kathy (Staff):** that's a good question and something that staff did discuss when the petitioner first came forward he requested to do six feet all the way along the 27 feet our Public Works staff it kind of it said that they were concerned about visibility and so they asked him to step it back so and he was willing to do it that that's 16 feet so three and a half feet is the um the the height that we use for making sure clear corners and Clear View so [19:03] **Commissioner Diekman:** Sharon Kathy [Music] um I'm having a little bit of difficulty understanding why we would recommend that the variants be approved because there's no logical reason why a three and a half foot fence wouldn't contain the ball is there some sort of scientific proof that six feet contains the ball [19:25] **Kathy (Staff):** uh Madam chair commissioner diekman um my recollection of basketball back in the day is that the hoop is up 10 feet right so uh balls bouncing off of backboards and so forth the concern is that three and a half feet isn't tall enough to contain enough [19:42] **Commissioner Diekman:** I I I still struggle to find out why the six feet is required and across the street there are two garages next to each other so and you can see the two driveways I'm I'm struggling to unders I mean obviously I can tell they don't want the balls going on that side of the garage sure that is not a practical difficulty what happens when the the people next door move does the fence have to be removed right like this doesn't make sense to me to give a variance based on the homeowners not the land opinion okay [20:25] **Commissioner Scanlon:** commissioner Scanlon Madam chair Kathy now defense is just going to be this like you said it's um just over 20 feet long total length 27 27. so it's not going to go back and terminate with the fence in the backyard [20:55] **Kathy (Staff):** yes it will yep so um it will the the the the concern is the area forward of the front of the garage correct otherwise the fence will be connecting with the chain link fence that exist today okay and then that'll be six feet going all the way to the background I believe that that is true if it's taller than seven feet he would need to get a building permit but otherwise would be permitted by the zoning code [21:26] **Jody Kirks (Chair):** good I'm I guess I'm having some of the same thoughts as commissioner diekman why it seems like we're using a variance to mitigate neighborly concerns and not property that's what I'm kind of struggling with right now and there's no guarantee that commissioner diekman has already pointed out that six feet is going to prevent a ball from going over when they're playing basketball that's that's kind of what I'm grappling with also so thank you commissioner Scanlon [22:11] **Commissioner Scanlon:** I'm having similar when I saw the six foot initially I thought basketball hoops 10 feet you know you miss a shot and it's going over um in addition to that this isn't like a forever problem kids grow up you know like this so to to put in a permanent fence like this just feels like like commissioner Scanlon said with the um it feels like a variance not related to property issues so I'm struggling with this as well [22:45] **Kathy (Staff):** sure so um and just to kind of address that a little bit from staff's standpoint I guess my my analysis was the fence helps him to have a reasonable use of his property that's where I landed on it um but the petitioner is here to make his own presentation and answer questions if that would be of help [23:07] **Jody Kirks (Chair):** Madam chair I just want to read the letter too that he sent in he said the six foot high fans in the front yard is much needed to protect my landscape in which cost me thousands of dollars so I was expecting to see plants and bushes and everything but to me it's just stone rock that is there [23:30] **Kathy (Staff):** yep for now yep um there is one shrub there's a tree there yeah the tree is in there [23:40] **Jody Kirks (Chair):** I'm chair Kathy can you go so if looking at the screen right now would it can you go back to the shot that showed the hoop uh there is that it there that's not a that's not a permanently mounted hoop is it nope just one you can move around couldn't they just move it to the other side of the driveway so that if it misses it goes into their own yard [24:19] **Kathy (Staff):** I think that that's a very fair question and the neighbor has been asked to make that change and has not been interested in making that change I believe [24:31] **Jody Kirks (Chair):** and then what the so where the defense will terminate it's going to be where the they have a Cyclone Fence type of thing right right toward the back so that's that's like typical three and a half feet four feet yeah I would ask for the property owner to to give you that info so basically the the fence would be extended from the the um the Cyclone Fence down along that property line or just inside of it all right commissioner Scanlon [25:12] **Commissioner Scanlon:** Madam chair Kathy um I guess I was gonna bring up the same thing about moving the basketball hoop is there any position the city has with basketball hoops whether they're permanent or temporary as far as other place where they're placed when it it comes to a recreational play equipment [25:34] **Kathy (Staff):** um it's a little bit um limited um it it almost starts to get down to a private dispute between the neighbors the city does not have an ordinance that would prevent someone from putting a basketball hoop in their side yard or front yard or um so okay thank you [26:01] **Jody Kirks (Chair):** has it never been approached did you say with the fence and they are they are okay with it okay are you the neighbor no okay would you like to speak sir [26:25] **Serkhan Ozcan (Petitioner):** I'm Serkhan Ozcan I reside at 8106 lower 147th Street West I've been living there for the last three years um I respectfully request a variance for for the explained like uh 16 feet length of pants the six foot uh height uh the reason because as Kathy explained uh I've been having not nothing but problems with the neighbor and I've been respectful to him but he's very disrespectful he his kids he's got like four or five kids you know they play basketball football soccer so they're like you know they're all over my yard which I don't want to sound like a like ground people man I love kids you know I mean I always be nice to them always but um and the neighbor is like very problematic you know he listens to loud music all the time he wakes me up I just not only for for um like aesthetically you know I don't want fast for aesthetic purposes I want to pass for my privacy and protect myself like I mean he he's also known that uh he carries a gun I mean you know um so I'm kind of afraid to actually live there I just want the safety and privacy and protect my uh my landscaping and by the way Landscaping is still in the process I have actually that guy is coming over to uh to plant like uh perennials and some some shrubs so um that's basically [28:13] **Jody Kirks (Chair):** so there is more of an issue than just the yes yes yeah and you did ask them to move it to the other side the hoop [28:22] **Serkhan Ozcan (Petitioner):** no I did not but I talked to them you know can you can your kids just be careful here I mean they don't they don't have any respect so and they really had no problem with you saying that you wanted to put a fence up they were for it yeah I talked to him like he said yeah go ahead [28:44] **Jody Kirks (Chair):** anybody have questions anything else you wanted to add sir um no okay thank you you're welcome thank you [28:56] **Commissioner Diekman:** commissioner Dickman Madam chair well I can understand the the difficulties that the situation poses I'm still finding it hard to Grant a variance or support granting of variance for the land that is not actually encumbered the property owner has the right to build a three and a half of fence I I did not hurt anything yet that would say that the land requires a six foot fence if we're going to allow a six foot fence here when land is not encumbered we would have to allow it everywhere [29:43] **Jody Kirks (Chair):** yeah I mean six foot I think is what's bothering everybody right it's it's kind of by definition that's what the variance is for and to me I'm just hearing that it's more than just there's lots of other issues going on and I don't know that the six foot fence is going to resolve a lot of those issues either you know um commissioner Scanlon [30:20] **Commissioner Scanlon:** and I'm sure Kathy um situations like this what is I think I know the answer but I'll ask it anyways the city's position of um if there's an issue in this case a basketball hoop and where it's been located on the property that this the city maker request that it be moved to a different location because of problems that it's causing [30:52] **Kathy (Staff):** management share thank you please the the answer to the question is no there is no code provision regarding where to put a basketball hoop unless of course it was in the right-of-way and the issue is purely a private civil dispute between neighbors and the city will not get involved with those [31:07] **Jody Kirks (Chair):** yeah it doesn't necessarily mean that he can't approach law enforcement right to ask them if they could help out or something or law enforcement is for purposes of crimes so you know preventing crime not if crimes not not to mediate neighbor disputes certainly if a situation arises sure where he has issues or concerns about his own security yes he should call the police commissioner Magnunwald [31:47] **Commissioner Magnunwald:** I'm sure I think it I think I Echo probably the concerns that everybody has it's unfortunate that there's a situation like this and that the neighbor won't do more to um prevent the basketball and other other things coming out of the yard I mean there are very temporary backstops that you can have that are like a mesh character kind of that can be put over the back of a basketball hoop to prevent the ball from from from coming um that would be far cheaper than a fence provided that the the neighbor would be willing to do it um it is an unfortunate situation it's um but I don't I I guess I share commissioner Dickman's concerns that it's that the nature of the dispute um doesn't necessarily raise a land issue in my opinion it's unfortunate and I wish I could just say yeah thumb because this actually seems like a very reasonable way with a six foot fence for for that short distance doesn't seem like that much of a of a intrusion or that it would stand out and create this you eyesore of a situation however if we're looking at the you know what the Practical difficulties are however that term would be defined I I kind of lean more towards the what I understand commissioner diekman's position to be because if you look at the fourth condition and and again all four of those conditions must or all five of those must be must be satisfied it's my understanding and um and that and that the second or the last Clause of uh item four but is necessary to alleviate practical difficulties in complying with the zoning provisions of this code I think that again it has been stated before relates to the conditions of the land not behaviors that have nothing to do per se with the the nature of the land so that's I think this is an unfortunate situation and while I think a six-foot fence would probably resolve the issue I just don't know that it's it's a textbook example or a clear example of a valid variance request [34:27] **Commissioner Schindler:** commissioner Schindler Madam chair Kathy I agree with what's been said um I don't think this meets the the difficulties test in my opinion um there's no reason he can put the three and a half foot fence the whole distance um the other thing I I would say is you know a lot of kids don't play things for very long it's just a little temporary basketball hoop it doesn't sound to me like you're talking about I don't know I'm just saying I I think you can work within the code and that might be enough to to alleviate it's going to at least stop the rolling balls and to be honest if it's a ball that they're shooting at the basket and they miss it's going to go right over the six foot fence and it's just going to be long more time they're going to spend going around get I mean I don't know I just don't think it meets the test I guess I can leave it at that [35:36] **Jody Kirks (Chair):** I agree I think if the ball goes over you're going to have the kids running around it anyway they're not going to eliminate not going into the yard or trying to climb it is the pleasure oh okay um I think there's a consensus coming about from all of us um prior to a vote though is there an option just to step back and not take a vote on this tonight and but I don't know what other options there are for the applicant to make changes other than go with the three foot fence which doesn't require our input on so I'm just trying to think all out a little bit if there's any reason to I was waiting would assist in this process but um I I guess there isn't as I'm talking through it there really we haven't come up with a solution ourselves and we try to mitigate it so okay thank you [36:51] **Commissioner Diekman:** Madam chair I would move we recommend denial of a variance to increase the front yard fence running along the west property line from three foot to six foot for 16 feet stepping down three and a half feet for the distance of 11 feet showing any attached site plan and detail fence plan [37:12] **Commissioner Schindler:** second [37:13] **Jody Kirks (Chair):** it was moved by commissioner Dickman and seconded by commissioner Schindler any discussions if not all those in favor sing the Vibe by saying aye aye opposed nay carries always a hard decision on this one so okay moving along we've got um other business and I see Tim benitty is back so welcome [37:51] **Tim Benetti (Community Development Director):** I hope uh our city planner Alex uh filled you in on some details but the ambassador of U.S or the Finnish ambassador to the U.S ala his x1c was there uh did a little presentation so if you've ever had a chance go see that facility it's quite what opener yeah a fantastic facility we should be proud to have a facility like that so I just want to give you a quick update we do have some upcoming meetings for June 7th and June 21st I believe we have three potentially four items coming up on the June 7th agenda uh one of them or two of them with the high schools Apple Valley high school and Eastview High School for some additional storage buildings we also have a new daycare that's being proposed and also a zoning text Amendment also our city council will be meeting on May 25th and June 8th um some of you ability I'm going to embarrass you tonight are you yes you are embarrassed a few weeks ago Council had a little honorary cake ceremony for those uh members of the commission or committees who have served our community and Jody you were out of town I believe that night so if you would permit me I'd like to read her proclamation in the record and and give you some accolades [39:26] **Tim Benetti:** uh this Proclamation whereas volunteers have enriched the life of our community through their concern commitment generosity of spirit and whereas the hard work and commitment of volunteers have made our community a better place in which to live and whereas volunteers are a vital resource that contribute to health education welfare Recreation culture and environment of the city of Apple Valley whereas excuse me the city of Apple Valley wishes to thank its volunteers for their dedicated services and through their Spirit now therefore the city council of City Apple Valley Dakota County Minnesota in conjunction with national volunteer week of April 16th through the 22nd 2023 hereby recognizes Mrs. Jody Kirks for six years of service on the Planning Commission it urges all of it so this is to recognize volunteers who contribute their time Talent energy proclaimed his 13th day of April 2023 it's official it's signed by mayor Hooppaw and Penn Gaxter so we'd like to present this team we've also been wish to present to you the Apple award Apple so come on oh okay [Music] oh it's a gold Rolex there you go it is that's gorgeous thank you you're welcome it's better than a Rolex all right congratulations it's a little wrapper that's all I have for tonight if you have any questions happy to take them at this time or talk to you after the meeting thank you [41:14] **Commissioner Schindler:** motion moving adjourn [41:16] **Commissioner Scanlon:** second [41:18] **Jody Kirks (Chair):** motion made by commissioner Schindler and seconded by commissioner Scanlon all those in favor signify my saying hi this meeting is adjourned thank you [Music] foreign [Music] [42:12] foreign