lot of people that same people same yeah yeah with very fancy presentations yeah yeah several yeah several yeah they were pretty much pretty much the same well thought out I mean oh yeah yeah I I was applaud the neighbors very well prepared and articulate yeah so uh yeah I mean it's good that they guy buys a house when there 10 Ro yep it Jeremy you good to go I'm ready okay good good evening I'd like to call the uh Monday October 9th Planning Commission meeting to order uh would everybody like to stand and say the Pledge of Allegiance with us FL uned States naice thank you may be seated our recorder is absent tonight so I'll just do a quick um statement of who's here uh we have uh Commissioners medy uh civet Taylor groy far and Sherwood and absent tonight our Kirk is here oh all right there he is late yep yep I knew you'd be here and absent are Kirk Piper and Weber good evening um the first item on our agenda tonight is the approval of the agenda um does anybody have any comments about the agenda or anything if not I'll take a motion of approval for that so move moved by commissioner Grody do I have a second Thank You by Mr commissioner Taylor all in favor say I I opposed motion passes okay the uh next item on the agenda is the approval of the minutes from our last meeting which was way back on Monday August 28 2023 um hopefully everybody had a chance to review those minutes um any comments or changes needed on that set of minutes okay not not see any I'll take a motion on that I make a motion to approve the planning commission's meeting minutes dated August 28th 20123 thank you commissioner Taylor do I have a second second okay I'll take commissioner medy on that one close care call by your hair um good well we have one public hearing this even vote sorry sorry commission ready I seconded it but we did not vote my apologies all in favor say I I I opposed motion carries we're ready to move on tonight we have one public hearing for Mr Car Wash um this is a request for a PUD concept plan review on 1.23 Acres a PUD District review with waivers on 1.23 acres and a site plan review on 1.23 Acres I think I'll ask the uh applicant to come up and if they want to make a presentation to the commission that would be great if you have any words if not um you don't have to we can uh okay good and if you could introduce yourself with your name I would appreciate it hi my name is PR matharu I'm with the Mr carage development team coming in from Tucson Arizona at HQ welcome thank you so we're here today because we have a site located on the corner of flying cloud and Crystal View and you can see our proposed car wash right there so that's a rendering done by one of our architectural partners showing ideally what our Cy will look at so want to introduce our team as well so I've already introduced myself behind me I have Luke kitley director of operations in the Minnesota area Eli Abnet Amanda Thomas Benjamin Myers all with our Civil Engineering Group isg Incorporated Andrea Ren could not be here for tonight okay and I just want to give a quick little introduction to Mr Car Wash so we're the only publicly traded Car Wash and National Car Wash in the country which makes us very prideful for for our name and our brand recently we actually also hit 2 million subscribers Nationwide so we're also very excited about hitting that Milestone as well uh currently we have about 25 locations across Minnesota and we do have an existing location here in Eden Prairie and we're looking forward to upgrading our services with a nice brand new shiny larger building uh for all of you so currently at our existing location we only recycle about 10% of our water which in this day and age we understand that water conservation is a really really hot topic and we want to make sure that at an industry where the service that we provide is through the use of a large amount of water our R&D team has developed a reclaim system which go under goes three underground tanks where the water from each vehicle comes in and gets filtered through each tank to be pumped back into our system and we recycle almost 50% of water from each wash so going from 10% to 50% we're not only giving you a much better product a much better service we're also understanding that with these concerning environmental times we have addressed that and we're continuing to address it uh with each each update so to give an idea of where the site is where the corner of flying cloud and Crystal View uh that used to be the ex old location for former Burger King currently the site could definitely use an upgrade and we're proposing that with our site plan and our project that we do think that it'll be a positive development in Eden Prairie especially since we've been here since 1999 we want to make sure that we're continuing that relationship with the community and with what Mr Carwash stands for as well so we're here today for uh a few reasons one we do we are requesting a building waiver currently we are uh encroaching within that setback right off a Flying Cloud Drive and we want to make sure that we get do get that waiver to encroach in that setback approved because it we're doing that because we want to improve our circulation in our site if we were to adhere to the current settings as is uh one the ti will be too constrained which is one of the major complaints we have with our existing location right now we're at capacity with the amount of cars that we can service there and we're frequently finding backlogs we're frequently finding that moving the cars through our current location is going slower than we would like which means we're not be able to act we're not able to efficiently handle the capacity that your community is asking for so with us moving that building into the setback will allow us enough of a driveway aisle to allow for much easier circulation to increase the safety of our customers in addition as well we've been working with Jeremy and the rest of staff on some of the items about our site plan so we've taken staff recommend ation to move our uh trash and vacuum enclosure closer to the building so that way the first sign that our customers see is not just large CMU block structure it is the entirety of the site seeing the cars come out of the wash seeing the individuals going into their vacuum cleaning their cars and overall a much better aesthetic uh View the second thing we've done as well is adhere to eeden Prairie design guidelines we understand that the canopy Pony cell canopy that we had of our size initially was much too large creating a visual obtrusion to The View Corridor that flying cloud has done a very good job of preserving so we've also decided to downsize our canopy into the more of the smaller manageable that we have at our existing location now so we still have the ability to protect our equipment protect our attendant who is always there to assist customers if they need but then also if the customers are paying retail we have the ability to Shield them from uh sheiling from the weather even though about 80% of our customer based on our unlimited wash Club subscriber system we still have retail customers who come by every now and then in addition as well we did agree to add the Ada ramps to both of the corners of the property in order to maintain Ada compliancy so we've also been updating our building elevations to make sure that we're also adhering to City guidelines we understand that there is a 75% uh requirement for class materials so we have gone through again working with Jeremy to make sure that we've had adhere to all of those so we did replace majority of our ephis and other materials to make sure that we are classifying that within the class one so we've added an additional amount of brick to make sure that we're also keeping that same Aesthetics for the entire View Corridor and this is an example right here of these smaller point of sale canopies as you can see instead of one larger structure is three smaller structures there right adjacent to our customer service attendant Hut which is a fully conditioned space so fully cooled and fully heated so we don't have one of our attendant standing outside in the harsh Minnesota weather through the 65 days year around we have looked in Provisions to making sure that we are creating a comfortable environment for them to work in if they have to leave that in order to assist a customer and in a little minute here Luke will give up and then explain the operations of our business and to end it we're just looking at a few renderings here so like I mentioned earlier we have been here since 1999 and we've been proud to be part of Eden Prairie's community and in order to keep their relationship going and to provide for our customer base which as a retail business without customers we are nothing so we want to make sure that we're upgrading that service we're giving you a brand new ground up construction so we're not retrofitting anything this has all been designed from the ground up in terms of our environmental U Conformity and concern we're also able to do our Landscaping to exactly what we needed because we're starting fresh we're starting with a blank slate we take pride in our Landscaping we take pride in Mr car we take pride in the product that we give to our community and we're hoping that with this we are going to be able to continue to provide to this community for the next 20 years and hopefully longer after that thank you thank you for the wonderful presentation appreciate that of course can stand for questions here Commissioners do you have any questions of the applicant initially right now I just have one quick question is this similar to your uh Mr kwash in Brooklyn Park that's just completed off Zan and 10 okay that flowed really well in comparison to your current structure here yeah no we prefer doing the new builds a lot more just because we have a lot more control over the overall design because our operations team you know they've been in the business for I don't know a thousand years at this point seems like it they know how the customers run they know what's going to work best so we we took a lot of time to develop our site standard and Landscape standard package because now we have a blank slate we can really do whatever we want as long as it fit in the community and City guidelines so we we know that we are a vehicle positive and a very dependent business so we want to make sure that if a vehicle cannot go around our site we failed as a business so we want to make sure that the problem that we see now in our existing location we're not repeating them for any of the newer ones we open up Mr chair commissioner Taylor thank you um the current square footage of the existing building how much what's the square footage of the existing I'm not sure Luke do you know 4200 that's 4200 4200 okay thank you Mr chair Mr medy um just to um make sure I'm clear on um I don't if we can put up the renderings again but the canopies that you showed in the renderings those are what you're saying are the smaller scale canopies yes okay let me just head back to that first one there you go so when the staff well we could maybe ask staff this question but when the staff report um discussed you know the canopy and elimination I wonder if that you know what version that was in regard to but thanks for clarifying I was wondering the same thing so we'll ask chairman to clarify that um I have a question myself uh maybe two um potentially not directly applicable to your application but what are you going to do with the existing site so we're going to move operation from that existing site close that down and that staff will will then move to this new location okay and then it'll just get sold you're not going to retain that site yep okay all right um how fast do you serve customers on a on your busiest day how many cars per minute does your facility uh to answer that I'm going to call up Luke kitley and he'll be able to give you the information you need thank you thanks good evening Council I'm Luke kitley the director of operations for the Midwest so uh to answer your question um we can wash over a th cars a day uh if the sight's optimized the way that we need it um you know some of the pain points that that hurt us right now you know not only is it 100ft tunnel in length so there's very constraint very big constraints when it comes to chemistry and drying time we're adding 30 additional fee to this new property so that definitely helps uh we can speed up the conveyor belt process because of that because we have more room to work with um in addition to that you know it's it's like hurting cattle to get people to to merge into the same Lane right and right now our current site is a right-and turn if you can visualize being in your car it's hard to see the right side of your of your vehicle so uh this new facility is a left turn in it's a very gradual turn you mentioned the the property on Zane in Brooklyn Park it's a really good example of seeing very easy flow and merge points and that's exactly what we're trying to accomplish so uh but yeah we can was up to about a thousand cars a day on a big day okay could you uh do the math for me and take that down into either a cars per minute or cars per hour is what it's about two cars per minute 120 cars an hour a good average on a bu busy day yeah okay thank you that's exactly what I was looking for yes sir Mr chair I have a not another question Mr Taylor so we're going you're going from kind of a water sustainability on Recycle from 10% to 50% are there current tanks underneath the Earth today at the existing uh site there is yes sir they're much smaller because they're 50 I believe around 50 years old so the ability to recycle depends on how much we can occupy under the ground uh it's called sedimentation so basically just use gravity to let the solids flow to the bottom of the the pit surface and then it goes in a three stage of clarification process so it gets high enough spills over to the next Pond essentially underground and then it spills over to the third pond in which case most of the solids are back in tanks one and two and so we're pulling that more water filtered water back into the process and then reusing it for the the next car in line uh so it's trapped underneath the conveyor belt if you can picture that we essentially just use storm water drain concept and just trap everything to recycle it and reuse it okay and are there any current chemicals that you need to do special removal of with the waste that's generated no sir um everything is biodegradable that we use yeah everything can fall into that trap and and be collected and and my last question the current tanks at the site are those going to be removed once you shut down the existing facility or what's the plans to remove the existing sites underground I can't speak directly for that but typically when they're decommissioned they're filled with either concrete or removed so I would assume that that would be uh a requirement one or the other we've done both okay thank you yes sir so do you happen to have all of your application materials on the video this evening or just that PowerPoint presentation the PowerPoint okay so in our packet um chair I do have some of the drawings that were provided um yeah would you please uh find the um that stacking plan that's I don't know if it was the site circulation plan I think it was part of the traffic report that showed the queuing you know which one I'm talking about the the the queuing plan please hold yep that's fine um I can talk while I hold the um the traffic engineer who wrote a traffic study for you uh gave a chart of how many trips this use May generate car trips right and they put it in the metric of car trips per hour during Peak periods M and he uh offered recom recommendations for a uh a weekday afternoon Peak and a weekend a Saturday Peak worst case of course being a Saturday when everybody wants their car washed on a beautiful sunny day and so it looks like the maximum Peak generated for traffic is 114 cars per hour boom yeah that's pretty much the max yeah and so uh luckily for you you're that 114 is below your 120 cars per hour that you can push through your facility so theoretically you're handling your Peak traffic as it's coming through yes sir and that and that bears to um be underscored by the queuing plan that I think the planner is going to put up on the screen here for us right now thank you um hopefully everybody can see that the someone put together this graphic showing three this one shows two cars waiting to uh enter the pay facility and two at the pay facility and there's a double lane of of uh entrance queuing driveways and then I don't know if there was another one or not Jeremy for a different day I think it showed there we go uh another car or two up to four cars waiting so so this kind of is H parallel to the Traffic Engineers finding of you being able to handle the capacity on your peak times which is all good news to us so thank you for all that yes sir so that got me thinking um I don't think you need two driveway line Lanes coming in and the width of one of those two driveway Lanes is the same Dimension as the setback variants you're asking for on Flying Cloud Drive so why don't you just get rid of one of your wide Drive-In lanes and move the whole site up so you can avoid the variance request because it looks like you can I don't want to speak for for props but I believe that we would with the setback um we would lose an entire row of vacuums as well if I'm not mistaken is that correct yeah and so right now we have uh 18 stalls at our current location and so we want to at least match that because one of our biggest congestion points is being able to vacuum in the summer I believe with the setback if I'm remembering correctly it would it would impede on that that outside Lane of vacuums yeah I I'm not suggesting that you lose any vacuuming stalls I would just on a one for one pick up all of those vacuuming stalls and building and move it up the same width that that second lane is wide so maybe you have a 14 foot wide Lane there or something like that you could you could reduce your variance request by a most of the variants that you're asking for if not all so I do want to say that this site plan even though we do have the two que Lings there uh that curve dash line just below the cursor is the 35t building setback so we did have to move all of our vacuums which right above that we do have structural footings and that we didn't want that in the setback so we had to shift all of that down towards the South which caused us to then encroach into that building setback sure because I believe I think we did pose a question to staff at one point you know could we shift up the building so out of that setback and then apply for that variance of the waiver just for the vacuum footings and I think the comment was made and Jeremy please correct me if I'm speaking correctly uh just in terms of the initial experience we didn't want necessarily want the back of the vacuums to be so close to I believe it was Prairie Center so we had we took staff recommendation we went internally with our operations team at HQ and we decided that you know we can add as many row of Stack like that are going east west right now push our vacuum footings out of that building setback so at least we're not asking for a double waiver or variance but then just have the building encroaching that setback for visibility sake but then also having enough of a double Lane Drive a in between both of our vacuum um vacuum lines and even though we have 28 and we understand that 24 is really the minimum that's recommended we just know from past history of sites 24 has been a very very difficult site Drive aisle to maneuver sure that's kind of the story behind why we didn't shift everything up to the north get the building out because we would still initially be asking for a waiver one way or another okay well I think our commissioner will talk about that internally but I appreciate your comments I I personally would think that it would be a uh a lighter lift for us if we were to look at a variance along Crystal View road with vacuum foundations rather than an entire building and that's but yeah we can definitely go back to our design team and then bring that up I'm sure HQ will be happy that you know we're applying for variance for much smaller section as opposed to half of a building okay just curious on that whole way that's developed right thank you very much I'm sorry any of the commission member comments of the applicant before we move on Mr chair I've one more yes um there was um a a a note that uh some significant trees are being removed I think it's four of the five I don't know if I remembering that right anyway when I was looking at the um site plan there's some pretty large existing trees right on Crystal View near the entrance that looked like on your site plan could theoretically remain um and maybe just that double Q Lane start a little bit later but it wouldn't affect you know entry or anything like that do um do you have any um explanation as to why those trees cannot be saved we can we can revisit the site plan and then we'll also revisit with our landscape architect to see that maybe there is an issue with the way the roots are growing that we can't get enough of the parking Lanes out of it as well so we'll find that answer out and then uh next year be back here for city council we'll have an answer for you thank you thank you all right thank you very much appreciate that you may be seated this is a public hearing so I would ask anybody who's here this evening oh Mr barnhard yes you want me to give a brief uh brief report before the um public hearing um I I would be great fine with that sure go right ahead okay just uh just briefly um Mr Carwash is requesting uh three actions tonight one is the Pud concept review PUD District review with the waiver and the site plan approval the waiver as mentioned is from the uh front yard setback off of Flying Cloud Drive um there's some discrepancy on with the distance is the The Narrative suggests a 25 foot uh setback the the plan suggests 22 we'll get that cleaned up before we get uh get the approval documents um but generally the the issue is the same in terms of um the impact to the uh to the streetscape there um saf does support the waiver um and there was some discussion earlier in the process in terms of um a waiver for an accessory structure versus a waiver for the principal structure and in this situation staff felt that uh the waiver for the principal structure was more appropriate for a couple reasons number one um putting the building and this location here helped screen that internal workings of the car wash the stacking lanes and the stacking cars and then also the vacuum operations in that the the challenge with this site is it's exposed on three sides it's um you know prer Center Drive Crystal View and Flying Cloud Drive it's it's right there in a fishbowl we try to minimize or mitigate any of the kind of the negative aspects of of that kind of activity uh we think the plan does a good job in terms of providing that buffer from the building location but also the landscaping and then the buring that was added to Long Prairie Center Drive does help uh kind of buffer or screen those those actions or those activities um through the through the design process we did work very closely with the developer um and the applicant has is providing some additional easements along Crystal View and Flying Cloud Drive to help accommodate existing um the existing sidewalk that encroaches into private property on Crystal View and then also the existing uh trail that uh encroaches into private property along F Cloud Drive so they're they're working with with the city on those aspects the building does um exceed all the minimum requirements from a building design standpoint uh in terms of material um more than 75% of each of the facades are of the class one variety also note the the accessory buildings are all uh brick to match the principal structure so the dumpster enclosure has a roof on it as required for code and does is 100% brick with the exception of the of the door uh and then the vacuum room and then the um the room for the point of sale attendant those are all meet or exceeded the the minimum standard requirements the one issue uh still really out there from a discussion standpoint is the canopies and to miss M's Point um much of the project um the canopy proposed was one of was a large single canopy over the three lanes the more recent version which the staff report was written based on was the four smaller canopies so that does help mitigate a bit um the massing concern that we had from a sta perspective um we look at it though is is our our code speaks to um canopies for U for uh these type of material or these type of activities and they should be attached to the building and that's the the standard that we've up upheld to recent projects Chick-fil-A is a more recent one um so that's That's the basis for our comment on that um we did support internally uh a a smaller or smaller temporary canopy for use only when necessary um so a post basically and then you put a sun sun sun shade on that when necessary not a permanent structure um but we look for your feedback on what's proposed here uh as I said before staff is supporting the project um with the waiver as proposed here and uh stand for any questions thank you appreciate that staff report and I appreciate your thoughts on the um on the setback along PR Center Drive versus Crystal View Drive weighing the three-sided uh Frontage that this site has um okay staff do you have any questions or I'm sorry Commissioners do I have any questions of Staff this time no not right now okay good well I think that we'll go to the uh audience then this is a public hearing if anybody is in the audience that wishes to speak on this item please St step forward and uh give your name seeing none I'd entertain a motion to close the public hearing at this point in time so move move back commissioner groy second second second by commissioner Taylor all in favor say I I I opposed nay public hearing is closed okay so commissioners um thoughts or findings Mr chair commissioner ready um I don't have a huge concern with the canopies I think I I I think minimized is preferred really the main purpose would be protecting the equipment and and um the the car as you reach out so you're not getting sorry you're not getting wet um so the what I use as basis at looking at the existing canopies I thought those were kind of the right scale um but just wanted to make that comment that I don't have a huge concern with those um the setback um you know I questioned that a little bit looking at it um um just really because it's the there's really no other comparison on the street everything else on the street is set back very far in general I am a proponent of of of um shorter setbacks um in in these commercial districts but um just kind of looking at the Sur grounding uses I didn't want this to stick out like a sore thumb I'm pretty sad satisfied with that I just wanted to make the comment that I was a little bit questioning whether or not I thought that was appropriate um after hearing the explanation tonight I I think it's fine okay thank you commissioner I'm just going to put on a tail end comment to that uh I too was concerned about the setback um in relationship to other sites along Flying Cloud Drive more so from a Retailer's setback Equity standpoint uh retailing is all about signage and taking away one side's visibility by moving another neighboring site forward to block the other building site I don't think is an equitable thing to do and retailers depend upon sign signage visibilities so um I didn't ask but I'll ask shortly whether or not they had a neighborhood meeting I don't think commercial districts are allowed to do that or required to do that I should say but um I I did drive the intersection back and forth a couple times and it looks like their nextdoor neighbor Wedding Day Diamonds seems like it has a tower with a sign and this is a very low sight a low grade and I think the three-dimensionality of it doesn't detract from signage from their neighboring property but I think we should be careful not to not to uh forget that I think that setback Equity is important for retail districts so um May maybe that could be a finding of ours is that we gave a due cons consideration and due the uniqueness of this nature of this sites topography Etc um that we don't see it as a problem but that that's my opinion if anybody else agrees or dis age I think that's important caveat to the reason why we might approve this wayer if we do is is kind of the unique um location of this elevations surrounding uses and we had to think about future surrounding uses so if wedding day or when it or or even over on the Chick-fil-A if that's redeveloped is this creating an unfair condition um so I think that's a really good point okay um I may also have a comment about those canopies but I'd like to hear other Commissioners uh comments on uh those three small canopies covering the the pay Lanes if not maybe just ask the question back to the applicant um can I just make the assumption that most people get their car washed in sunny weather without it being raining so um if you don't get a lot of traffic and inclement weather do you really need the canopies I can see it for a fast food drive-thru but for a car wash it seems like I wouldn't get my car washed When it's raining so there's many reasons reasons for a canopy uh particularly up here it's the snowfall and getting it onto essentially a screen or you know technology um that that can be problematic if you're not there and it happens overnight and it's buried in snow that can be a problem um the other side is really just employee comfort you know that is a big part of it um I know it's you know not crazy hot summers up here but we do get a lot of heat and just to get out of the Rays is a big deal uh on busy days to answer your question our our peak season is in the winter uh it's winter going into spring and uh but just because of the elements we we do build that very expensive uh CSA kiosk we call that or a booth uh that's fully air conditioned heated uh so they can take rotations in and out to get out of the elements but we always have somebody that's positioned out there to help assist customers that have never been with us before um and if I can note uh there's been some questions about the size of the canopies just to give you a reference it would be similar to what we currently operate at our existing site right down the road um if you want to compare size it's essentially the exact same size those are just swing arches and these are flat but they're the same size so if that helps as a frame of reference for the size of them okay so I just want to be clear as to the applicants Graphics that we've looked at versus the staff report comment has the design changed have have you responded already to staff's concerned with a different canopy design since the staff report was written or your staff report is a comment to this set of Graphics that we're looking at that is correct yes okay all right so you'd prefer no canopies that's staff's position yes okay thank you for that clarification if we approve the project tonight it's being approved with canopies unless we say something to the contrary that is correct thank you did you want to add something just in case you had more design related questions about the canopies I'm here to answer okay thank you very much Mr commissioner to the canopies is does the canopies have anything to do with branding of the company or any branding associ branding in terms of our colors and then also you know we have the large sign saying you know unlimited wash club members you know that's something that's very synonymous with Mr Carwash that that is what we call our subscriber system uwc or unlimited Car Wash so that's what I guess The Branding that we have on there and not necessarily the Mr logo itself but it is synonymous with our brand and our Aesthetics that we want to create holistically not just with a principal structure but principal and accessory and vacuums and Landscaping all speaking with one another create a cohesive design commissioner groy um because I have a monthly pass I'm a little bit familiar with perfect what percent of the users actually do have the monthly pass and don't ever interact with the point of sale people it's it's roughly in between 75 and 80% okay and so two out of three of the lanes that are um on the drawing would be just for members and one lane would be to to handle retail customers yeah thank you yes sir all right so if commissioner Taylor's question about branding turned into a signage thing how would you differentiate the lane assignments for a guest if we took away your canopies that's a good question we've never had to do that before so we would not we would start fresh with the idea all of our existing sites either tenant improvements or the new bills they all have a canopy structure that one not only not only protects the vehicles the customers and our employees from the weather it's just very large signs unlimited wash Club unlimited wash club and whatnot you know similar what we have at Brooklyn Park at Zayn if you guys will have to go out there again that in itself as a customer driving up it's big they know exactly where to go not having a canopy there will create issues like Luker saying not only on design but operationally as well and it might just turn into a circulation issue similar to what we have at the existing site now just because no one really knows which one to go to okay thank you um Jeremy um can you help us understand what signage limits uh would be imposed upon the applicant when they go for a sign permit for um circul site circulation directional signage well as you know there's there's U wall signage allowed there's uh free standing you know mon type signs then there's incidental signs which are intended to provide on-site direction or instruction to users um this is a property Zone C Regional commercial so it's fairly um it's it's a high intense um res commercial zoning District so there's quite a bit of signage allowed comparable to neighboring business bues I don't know the number off the top of my head of what that limit is but I know that we did review the uh incidental signage kind of requirements um to make sure that businesses like Mr Car Wash and others they require direction to pick up product or you know um access through the site could could use their signage there um in terms of alternatives to a canopy um that could be achieved D you know from a directional directional signage standpoint you know adjacent to the lane or clearance markers things like that all right thank you appreciate that clarification okay well I'd be interested in feedback from other Commissioners um on those topics uh specifically those small canopies over the pan accesses or not Commission I think I would be more concerned if the location where you can vacuum and park your car dry off more we're adding canopies there for the customers to kind of be out of that sun just because of the sheer amount of of lanes that you have there but I'm not overly concerned about the the canopies of the existing design uh my point of view thank you I think it the does add to per I thought it add more to the branding as well um but hearing that it it's not part of The Branding um I still think that I'm I wouldn't be against it it's not a part of The Branding in terms of just having the Mr logo there like I mentioned earlier it's part of our branding in terms of when you look at the overall site that Mr Car Wash provides to our customers we know we're just not the principal structure that gives you know you know not arguable that we get the best washes in the universe just put that out there um but it's also because it's the experience of driving into the queueing lane seeing the employee greeting you as you're driving up whether you are a limited watch Club member or not it doesn't matter we're going to have someone there with a smiling face I mean we just came from a site you know where one of the attendant was you know I believe she broke her foot but she was still out there W when everybody had went by because we're just committed to giving everybody the best experi experience that we can not only in terms of how we run the business it's how we design everything so commissioner tale that's how I would rephrase that that it is part of The Branding more on the design side but not just the very literal here's a Mr logo all right thank you um yeah I think we'll probably have to finish up maybe the canopy thing but just to U maybe expand our discussion just a little bit more um I'm personally satisfied with the uh building's architecture um I think the use of materials is is fine I I I like your existing building um I'm really happy to see the circulation going in a the proper direction counterclockwise um we are too yeah I'm sure spotted that right away so I think that's going to be an improvement uh for you uh right away and you keep a nice clean sight uh Mr commissioner I think the other thing that stands up too is you're you're improving your recy cycle of of of waste and water about 40% so I mean that's from a sustainability standpoint that's that's a good positive of this as well and our R&D team is working on improving those systems as much as we can I mean we would love you know one day hopefully 100% recycled y I know that's possible but as much water conservation as we can because we understand car washes use a lot of water and in this day and age that's a huge concern but we don't want to be that industry that says you know we don't care about the environment we're going to do whatever because of profits sure that's not the case thank you 400% yeah there you go okay all right do we have any other red light issues that people are struggling with no well just no red light but does this also does the re does the redesign come with a detailing section of the business as well where you can get a personal detail of the of your vehicle but detailing this would not be an interior service option it would be just the express exterior similar to what we have next door got just an upgrade sure okay all right okay so Commissioners let's um just finish up on this uh canopy issue then because if we uh have a motion for approval of the project if we do um and if we just have that be in accordance with the application uh then we're going to end up with those three small canopies over the drive Lanes if that's okay by everybody we're going to have to um you know acknowledge that and of course uh if we want to follow staff's recommendation then we would add a condition of our approval to uh eliminate those uh small canopies or if there's another suggestion on how the app applicant should deal with that we could uh give him that advice as well so um is uh how how we feeling about it in terms of uh being agreeable to the canopies as proposed versus uh following staff's recommendation to deny that part of the application I'm comfortable with the canopies I I think it's a well-run operation okay thank you commiss m I know you're okay with it I'm tending to be okay with it as well I'm okay with are okay yep y yeah I'm I'm okay with you canopy and my first job was in a car wash I'm glad to see a company taking care of their employees and having Comfort set the provide some comfort for the employee I'm in favor of that sure sure okay well I think you know with all due respect to our our uh zoning code uh which we are here to enforce yes um I think we all have to understand and acknowledge that that's put in place for a reason and I can appreciate uh the reason why it's there is to avoid some visual clutter on our sites especially small sites like this um I do think that this particular site has these you know the vacuuming uh machines with the hoses and the the tall things there's a lot of things sprouting up on this site besides just a building um hopefully the trees will soften that but you know Car Wash is kind of gangly with a lot of its things on site uh kind of anyway and I don't want to make it worse but it seems like these do act as signs directing traffic in my eye as much as anything so I'm okay with it I'll entertain a motion I would move to a recommend approval for a PUD concept plan review PUD design review and waivers and site plan review of a car wash all on 1.23 Acres as represented in the October 9 2023 staff report and based on plans dated September 6 2023 thank you very much commissioner Sherwood discussion on that second from commissioner medy any further discussion vote all in favor say I I opposed motion passes congratulations good luck at city council thank you very much thank you very much all right um we do have a planner report this evening for building and sustainability update Jeremy would like to take us through that yes chair uh Commissioners um Jen Fierce from the engineering department I actually serve as a planner today get this set up for her and she'll give a brief update on uh our sustainability kind of actions let me get out of her way here great welcome Jen chair and Commissioners make sure we can get the PowerPoint going here here okay can everybody see yes all right well I am here tonight to talk about the Sustainable Building standard uh this is something that the city council approved uh at their September meeting and so just kind of giving a informational update about what the policy entails and how it applies to um planning projects moving forward so a Sustainable Building standard uh is a policy that's triggered when there are either Financial or land use incentives um they have minimal minimum sustainability criteria that go beyond our existing state energy code and they're used for implementation in new construction or significant uh renovation projects um they're also commonly referred to as Green Building policies or Green Building standards uh as you are all very aware currently we have a sustainable features analysis as part of your planning reports um that's included in the development uh guide that we provide to developers in the community however everything suggested in that is a voluntary uh sustainability initiative we don't have any way of requiring anything uh at this point in time so that's where something like a Sustainable Building standard comes in and gives us a little bit more um authority to actually require some of these features and developments so one of the reasons we're looking at having this standard uh really goes back to our climate action plan uh overall we have a CommunityWide goal of carbon neutrality by 2050 and then we have some sub goals in there that I've specifically highlighted because you'll see these themes as we kind of start to go through uh the Sustainable Building standard um but sub goals around Net Zero new construction um having electricity load met on site uh with solar and this the increase in adaption of electric vehicles um but right now buildings are certainly our biggest source of emissions in Eden Prairie it's about 61% of our total emissions um but the Sustainable Building standard was actually outlined specifically uh as an action in our climate action plan so that's the adoped green build building policy uh but there were other actions outlined in there as well to require new development to have EV charging stations require new construction to be solar ready and to support Statewide updates to our uh building energy code and this is just a Peak at our planned emissions reductions so like I had mentioned uh buildings are about 61% % of our emissions in Eden Prairie uh travel at 37 and then waste very small at 2% so we would not be we are not the first city in Minnesota to have a Sustainable Building standard there are a handful of examples around the metro and throughout the state um St Paul and St Louis Park have actually had a version of their standard in place for about 10 years at this point and St Louis Park just went through a major overhaul of theirs uh last summer I believe it was Adina probably our closest neighbor they've had their policy in place for about two years I think at this point so the way this works is uh the Sustainable Building standard uh enhances what's already required in our State Building Code uh through the use of thirdparty green rating systems and then City specific requirements and get into that in a second here um so yeah like I said it's made up of those two components third party Green Building rating systems and then those City specific requirements and City specific is up to each City to decide what's important to them and what they want to have included in that standard uh but the third party rating system uh these are used because they're very familiar to Architects and Engineers um there's a third party that can be uh responsible for the verification that they're complying uh with the standard that they've selected and they all go above and beyond uh existing building code so most of you probably would think of lead when you think of Green Building rating systems um and that's certainly the most popular one however there is a Minnesota specific third party green rating system called B3 guidelines uh that's actually uh implemented by the Department of Commerce and the uh University of Minnesota um it's a Minnesota specific guideline that they've put together and it's actually required for any buildings that get uh State bonding money from the state of Minnesota when they build a new development uh so those are the two that we're looking for uh in commercial or mixed use applications um multif Family those same two options and then there's a third system called rise green communities and that actually is a system that's been used for quite some time for any multif family that gets uh financing through mhfa so again kind of these well-known used in other uh applications throughout the state thirdparty rating systems we will offer an option for people to suggest a different third party rating system but we need to vet it first uh to make sure was kind of meeting the things that we're looking for in our developments but we're open to that idea um as new systems come along uh so one of the questions we got a lot about was you know what are the increased costs some projects like this it's a little hard to narrow down because it depends on you know what sort of rank are you looking for in this third party green rating system um but this is kind of the aage depending on the level for lead which is you know like I said one of the most popular ones so we would require anything um that would apply to this policy to be lead silver or higher um so that's roughly two two and a half percent project price increase and a lot of that just depends on you know how big the building is uh their timeline to go through the review process um those sorts of things so it can really and then you know as you go up the scale to the Platinum you really start to see that price premium on those applications so there is an increased cost for lead and we certainly acknowledge that however there are Al some also our benefits to having a lead certified building um you see higher rent rates um see higher resale rates uh when those buildings do end up going on the market uh for both the commercial buildings and multif family buildings um so there are benefits to the actual property developer uh and you know what they see as a return on those buildings down the line um but they're also benefits to the people that actually live and work in those buildings so this information is from uh Washington DC they have a very similar uh policy in Washington DC and then similarly to us they also have an inclusionary housing policy so it's uh a lot of things obviously you know they're a little bigger than Eden Prairie but uh those other things do line up but uh for apartment buildings you know they're seeing 8% reduction in utilities for the tenants that live in these buildings um overall almost a 20% reduction in the cost of just overall operating expenses uh and then the same on the newer commercial buildings just with that utility savings um from the green improvements that are part of that lead certification I will pause there any questions about the third party rating systems before we move into the city specific so City specific uh it applies to a project regardless of whichever rating system they select to move forward with uh and they're really designed to make sure that the city's sustainability priorities are met um however it is up to us to figure out how we're going to determine whether or not they've met that standard so for Eden Prairie's policy for the city specific requirements we are asking for predicted greenhouse gas emissions um to have electric vehicle charging capability and then built in solar capability and so you know kind of tying back to those uh goals that we had in our climate action plan around electric vehicle charging and solar capability that's where you start to see those pop up into the city specific requirements and I'll talk a little bit about why in a second um but predicted greenhouse gas emissions that just helps us figure out okay what kind of impact is this building going to have on our emissions as we're you know making plans to reduce our overall emissions by 2050 so EV charging capability um we really have three options on this whatever reason my notes aren't appearing here so I to make sure I get this right um but we're requiring either fullon EV installed EV ready or EV capable and so there's slight differences between EV capable and EV ready but EV capable is uh basically making sure that the buildings have electrical panel capacity and space for a branch circuit as well as the raceways installed during construction so it's easier to add uh EV charging capacity down the road EV ready just means we've put in the the branch circuit we have the wiring to the space we have a receptacle at the space no okay uh and then EV installed is just very straightforward there's an EV charger there ready to go level two charging so the standard uh the city specific standard is different depending on the type of land use that we're seeing so for one to four family unit dwellings uh we just asked that there's one EV ready uh essentially an outlet in the garage ready to support EV charging um multif Family residential uh it's a little more robust and that's something that uh is intentional because 80 to 90% of EV charging happens at home so if people don't have access to charging where they live it makes it a lot harder for them to commit to buying an electric vehicle um we're certainly seeing more and more multif family applications as you know as they come through um they've seemed more and more willing to just put in those EV charging or at least the EV ready standards up front uh so we think this is in line um with what we're going to be seeing in the future and then just ensuring that there are some charging capabilities at commercial or office and Industrial um locations commercial you know it's a little bit less those are places where you know maybe you pop in for like an hour you're not going to get a ton of charge on a level two in that time but uh it is a little bit higher for off office locations um because those are locations where people leave their cars for eight hours a day so you have a little more opportunity and for somebody that you know maybe lives in a different city or live somewhere where they don't have EV charging access at home but they have it at work that might be enough to you know tip them over into to purchasing an electric vehicle so Jen I have a question on this sure slide um a 1 to four family dwelling versus multif family residential so take the example our recent uh Town Home Development we approved there were multiple buildings of four unit Town Homes is would that be considered a like a four family dwelling or would that apply to the entire development as a multif family it'd be a four family dwelling so that kind of thing where everybody has their own individual garage that's where you just want to make sure there's an outlet in there so they're have that access in their own garage multif family residential is meant for where there's just a big shared parking area like a underground parking parking ramp that kind of thing may or may not be assigned charging but it's not it's shared space less than personal space and for a commercial use um and we'll take example the Mr Car Wash let's say you have a smaller commercial user with 20 stalls is 1% round up to one minimum yes yes exactly uh we do have a couple of allowances in there so if somebody you know wanted to put in a DC fast charger instead of level two we can allow substitution on that um that's something that we actually expect some of the office locations um might be interested in because if it's a fast charger they'll fill their car and then have to move it whereas if it's a level two the same car will sit there all day and only one employee can use it uh so just you know sharing that access around a little bit um and then we did uh nursing homes Assisted Living memory care you know which kind of typically would be considered a multif family residential setting um but people most likely are not having nearly as many vehicles in these settings um just being sensitive to you know some of the costs already involved with that kind of housing stock uh that we just had the one accessible EV charger for visitors staff or if there happens to be a resident there that kind of thing uh and travel emissions are important you know right now they're about 40% of our emissions in Eden Prairie but as the grid gets cleaner and more of the electricity used in our buildings comes from renewable sources travel will eventually bump up and be the biggest uh emitter in Eden Prairie uh and almost the entirety of all of our travel related um emissions reduction plans are around access to electric vehicles I think there's about 14% that's mode shift so light rail Transit walk bike ped that kind of thing um but vast majority is planned around EV Taxas and so the reason we added uh the EV as a city specific requirement um um the requirements around EV charging are not consistent across the thirdparty rating systems um and lead in greed communities specifically it's not a required element it's something where you can get points you know they go towards a points total and if they meet their points total in other ways they would still you know meet their lead requirements but not provide that EV access so that's why we added it above and beyond uh the third party rating system and then solar energy um so at a minimum and this is something I know you hear a lot in your planning applications is building to that solar ready standard so just making sure that the layout of the roof and the capacity it can hold is suitable to solar down the road um and then we're going to ask them to look at sourcing up to 5% of their expected energy use on site and have them install it if it's cost effective with the 15 year payback um all of the energy uses in buildings uh you know it could be a relatively small building with a high energy use so they might not meet that threshold uh if it's a larger building with tons of roof access for solar and you know maybe not very much uh energy use they shouldn't have a huge problem meeting that standard so we're asking them to at least look at it if they don't and just a simple payback is all we're looking for on this and they'll have to show us um you know kind of what their proposals were on this but at a minimum having that solar ready standard uh even if they don't install solar they might down the road as prices improve or the next owner of that building would be a step ahead and adding this is a city specific standard same reason as the EVS uh it's just not entirely con assistant across the third party rating system um particularly in lead and green communities um it's a point system so they wouldn't necessarily have to do that so to meet our climate action plan goals having that included uh just made sense so uh the triggers for the Sustainable Building standard uh any new construction over 2,000 square feet or more um that is requesting a financial or land use incentive uh any major addition over 10,000 square feet uh same requesting that Financial or land use incentive any other projects we wouldn't be able to apply this to so Financial incentives um most commonly probably mean prair would be tax increment financing but there are some other um Financial incentives that would apply if requested and then land use incentives would be considered a PUD zoning status there is one exemption in there if they only ask for a density waiver uh the standard wouldn't apply um just kind of due to the way our codes put together it made sense to leave that as an exemption for what I understand you almost never see only a density waiver there's some other waiver on top of it um so it shouldn't up too often um and Jen if I can speak in here real quick um you will see in in our review of uh chapter 11 in a couple couple weeks um some minor changes to reflect this um this issue um because as as Jen says most of our um plan unit development projects are multiple um waivers with the exception in our to in our town center zoning District you can only develop in those districts with through a PUD so we're modifying that section of the code so it's not a requirement um to help address uh this this issue here because the intent is is to um to capture some of those benefits for those projects that are asking for City assistance whether it's Financial or or land use changes so you'll see some some more of this coming up in the next couple weeks um can I ask a question on that just taking today's example um their variance was not a density variance it was a setback variant so would that trigger this requirement yes because the building also was larger than uh 2,000 square F feet okay thanks got a question for you you've got some fairly aggressive decade long goals longer term so how many of these threshold objection objectives do you think will be modified how quickly that's a good question uh you know we're only a couple years in to our tracking on the climate action plan um I actually think we're probably going to be pretty close on the ev1 on our expectations by 2030 just the way things are going for sure uh so implementation uh the council adopted the standard on September 19th and we'll have it in place for new developments starting January 1st uh one thing I did want to mention we have a contract um with lhb a local Architecture Firm to provide support to applicants as they uh implement this standard if they have a project that triggers it so they would help participate in an initial meeting with the applicant to kind of outline what the standard requires and how we'll go about uh verifying that and then they're also available to help the applicant I think up to three or four times throughout the course of their application if they have questions or are looking for advice on how to put something together to best meet the standard um that's something that the city's going to provide to support applicants as they implement the standard and I think that's it any questions this is terrific thank you Jen uh good presentation and uh I for I'm very excited to uh have this in place uh for the remaining development that need Prairie um so I'm understanding this Sustainable Building standard will become codified as part of our ordinance is that correct the um Sustainable Building policy will be effective January 1st I don't believe any further Council action is is necessary at this point it just it's it's it's pending until January 1st at which time it will become effective I could maybe clarify that a little bit uh so it wouldn't be updated into the zoning code I think would not be no it's a city policy which is a separate process that still has you know the full weight and authority of the city council just not making it a zoning code Amendment okay okay you had mentioned that you would put some language in chapter 11 maybe some pointers pointing from the code to the polic then did I hear that right then um no maybe I misspoke there the we're going to modify some some sections of the zoning code that reference requirements for a plan unit development um we don't want to require every project to have a PUD a plan unit development so we're modifying that that that language is in or zoning code that requires your action before we can make those changes as Jen said that this policy is not not in the zoning codes did not require Planning Commission action okay so what I heard is that to be um subject to this policy you need to have a benefit of some incentive assistance and so that sounded to me like from both of you that was an important trigger is is that prohibiting us from extending this to every application yes yep that's exactly right uh so anybody that asks for a financial incentive or the land use incentive um the city has the authority to require these uh standards that are you know above and beyond our existing building energy codes uh because we're giving them that incentive for their development in situations where they don't have any incentive it's just this is our project um you know they're not asking for a PE or anything else um we don't have the authority to exceed the state energy code okay so therefore uh uh could we or maybe you've thought about it already to have a Sustainable Building standard light that would be uh part of or an enhancement of our design uh standards guide so I think the way that we've looked at it almost everything that comes through at this point is either asking for a financial or land use incentive um and I know Julie and I ran the numbers on your planning applications there were only a handful that fell through the cracks that wouldn't have it applied to um but to answer your question yes we would just continue to ask for those same things I ask for right now in those uh Planning Commission reviews just without the authority to actually enforce them all right thank you um commissioners else um so this was a bit like I had not um I was not familiar with with the um the study on this and and then that this went through um city council so it was pretty shocking when I saw this personally from a development perspective um where I work in I have not seen this aggressive of a policy in any City ever so um um I was surprised I think I think this is a very very aggressive policy um and puts a lot of costs on on to anyone who wants to do business in Eden Prairie um I see I see there was some mention of cost studies there but um there's there's a there's a lot more than just construction costs that get added just hiring Consultants to even get certified under these programs is actually pretty onerous it could be tens of thousands just to hire someone to to get that lead to get that green buildings you can't just do it yourself send in a little application it requires a whole um consultant team and there's companies out there that provide those services but it's a big added cost for for smaller developments I think I think some larger developments it's it's not it's it's not going to you know they end up maybe facing some of these um for other reasons um but I was um curious you had mentioned some other cities on there did did you how does this compare with some of the other Ci's policies I'm curious now to look them up but I have not heard anybody um requiring um um not only to to uh get certified by a program which is a pretty pretty um a strong level of of of of of meeting sustainability standards but then um having those um extra policies on top of that I know some cities are talking maybe individually about things like the EV stalls and and whatnot but um how uh do you have any kind of study as to how this compares to other cities yeah hang on one second here I see here that uh oh you don't want to see that but I do have a slide in here I I tried to edit it down a little bit because I knew we were going to uh be towards the tail end here why did it here we go uh so I think this is what you're asking for commissioner kind of comparison to some of the other cities that have a similar policy so uh Eden Prairie Edina and St Louis Park all have that uh Financial or land use incentive trigger um they all have this isn't included on this slide because this is more looking at the city specific requirements um but they all have those same requirements for meeting third party verification rating system um it's kind of a simple breakdown on what Adina in St Louis Parks uh EV charging looks like um I know St Paul has a ordinance at their Planning Commission right now for multi family EV access that I think is 5% installed 50% EV ready so that's very comparable to what we have in our policy uh and then most of the Cities Mina Cina have that renewable energy standard with that same you know build to a solar ready standard and install if cost feasible thanks yeah I'll just stick with my comment I guess to our group as as we see projects starting to come in that this is not a small feat um it's a pretty large feat for them to meet so I think we should you know that's this is going from zero to 60 basically real quick certainly as it depends upon the size of the project um your initial question about would the project in front of us tonight trigger that the answer was yes for a small building like that it would be on a percentage basis a much higher hit yes it's it's it's it's most onerous to the smaller projects which I think is where I have some concern um about that and about how that might deter um some projects from happening um and um you know you think of even using the car wash specifically that's a very specific use I don't know how our car wash gets lead certified or if that's that's a thing but that in itself is would be an interesting interesting one to bring through yeah yeah the I do have one one last thing that I didn't mention so there is a mechanism in the standard where developers can ask for either modification or removal of the Sustainable Building standard and that ultimately would have to be either approved or disapproved by this city council so we do have some off-ramps in those cases where you know they can kind of prove the the burden on that um if that helps answer your question a little bit sure sure I mean I can we can kind of see that car wreck coming with someone coming in with an affordable housing project looking to build something inexpensively so that they could Target a lower income bracket Market only to be faced with these additional costs and you well and Jen mentioned if if you're doing a a light like a tax credit affordable project you're you're meeting the green communities and some of these anyway um but if someone's trying to do a naturally occurring more affordable housing project um without State funding then this would be an added cost for sure sure sure sure that all said I think the urgency of our planet's climate uh is something that's obvious in front of all of us and I appreciate the city's initiative to put forward this strong initiative to promote sustainability I think it's is terrific I appreciate your leadership on that um my only question was going to be if uh because I know how the lead process works we've had G through a number of times on our project and you get commissioned at the very end and you get your score so building's built score card comes out and you fail maybe three points out of 48 or something like that or in the case of Silver versus certified you go for 31 32 and you end up with 29 and all of a sudden you know you're not there so what happens then yeah so we're going to with lhb develop kind of a verification process where we'll make decisions about really that kind of scenario what happens if you know they have all intentions and then they don't ultimately meet it um I don't know what that might look like at this point I I guess it's possible that we could look at some sort of you know Financial penalty perhaps or you know some other um way of of kind of making sure that they actually move forward with what they're asking them to do but that we all have to work out and ultimately probably get if there's any sort of um Financial penalty to that side of it we'd have to get authorization from the city council okay I would guess it would be a very case-by case basis all right all right is the city uh fully funding uh the consultants's fees to meet with the applicant it's not passed on as a development fee during the permitting process we're funding that okay all right so um and that's fine that that consultant chosen us the best um so uh that could Mor potentially into uh maybe a program where an equivalency checklist could be established in Le of them going through the sometimes cost deterrent um challenge alling process of going through B3 or of course lead yeah especially and having our own checklist similar to it or identical to it but instead monitored locally yeah yeah I think that's a great idea it's interesting um talking to my counterparts in Idina in St Louis Park St Louis Park mainly sees people that select B3 and Idina has only seen people select lead and I don't yeah there doesn't seem to be any Rhyme or Reason to why those differences are so I am curious to see kind of what the preferred pathway is okay great thank you Commissioners any other comments okay well thank you again we'll see her in January yeah we'll see her yeah absolutely very informative uh no actions necessary on this planner report so sure uh and any other uh comments that you've heard uh fine but but that's all so thank you Jen um moving mov on then uh do we have any members reports none okay I'll entertain a motion for adjournment motion to adjourn second motion to Second all in favor say I I meeting adjourned thank you