[0:00] Emily Koski: >> >> . >> >> . > WELCOME TO E REGULAR MEETING OF THE CITY PLANNING COMMISSION FOR MONDAY, SEPTEMBER 18. [0:41] Emily Koski: IT IS NOT MONDAY, SEPTEMBER 18. [LAUGHTER]. IT IS OCTOBER 2, I BELIEVE. I THEM IS EMILY KOSKI, AND I'M CHAIRING TODAY'S MEETING IN PLACE OF PRESIDENT OLSON. THE CITY WILL POST THIS MEETING TO THE WEBSITE AND YOUTUBE CHANNEL AS A MEANS OF INCREASING PUBLIC ACCESS AND TRANSPARENCY. [1:04] Emily Koski: AT THIS TIME, I'LL ASK THE CLERK TO CALL THE ROLL SO WE CAN VEFY A QUORUM FOR THIS MEETING. [1:10] Clerk: >> COMMISSIONER ALPER. [1:11] Commissioner Alper: >> PRESENT. [1:12] Clerk: >> BAXLEY. ABSENT. CAMPBELL. [1:15] Commissioner Campbell: >> HERE. [1:16] Clerk: >> CONLEY. [1:17] Commissioner Conley: >> HERE. [1:21] Clerk: EMERICK. [1:22] Commissioner Emerick: >> HERE. [1:23] Clerk: FORD. [1:24] Commissioner Ford: >> HERE. [1:25] Clerk: >> KOSKI. [1:26] Emily Koski: >> PRESENT. [1:27] Clerk: >> COMMISSIONER MARWAH IS ABSENT. MEYER. [1:29] Commissioner Meyer: >> HERE. [1:30] Clerk: OLSON. ABSENT. WE HAVE SEVEN MEMBERS PRESENT. [1:34] Emily Koski: >> LET THE RECORD REFLECT WE HAVE A QUORUM. [1:37] Emily Koski: WITH THAT, WE'LL PROCEED TO THE AGENDA. A COPY OF WHICH WAS POSTED FOR PUBLIC ACCESS TO THE CITY'S LEGISLATIVE INFORMATION SYSTEM, WHICH IS AVAILABLE AT L LIMS.MINNEAPOLIS.GOV. [1:56] Emily Koski: MAY I HAVE A MOTION TO ACCEPT THE MINUTES. MOVED AND SECONDED? ANY DISCUSSION? SEEING NONE, ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. OPPOSED. ANY ABSTENTIONS? THAT MOTION PASSES AND MINUTES ARE ADOPTED. [2:14] Emily Koski: WE HAVE AN ADDENDUM TO OUR AGENDA THIS EVENING. THE INCREMENT FINANCE PLAN FOR 90120TH AVENUE SOUTH DO I HAVE A MOTION TO ACCEPT THIS ITEM AND ADD TO THE AGENDA? [2:29] Commissioner Meyer: >> SO MOVED. [2:30] Commissioner: >> SECOND. [2:32] Emily Koski: >> ANY DISCUSSION? SE SEEING NONE, ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. OPPOSED? ANY ABTENSIONS? THAT MOTION CARRIES AND THE ITEM HAS BEEN ADDED TO OUR AGENDA. OUR NEXT ORDER OF BUSINESS TO GANIZE THE AGENAGENDA. [2:49] Emily Koski: I'LL READ THROUGH THE AGENDA NUMBERS AND ADDRESSES AND STATE WHETHER IT IS SLATED FOR CONSENT CONTINUANCE RETURN WITHDRAWAL OR DISCUSSION. I'LL BRIEFLY EXPLAIN THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN CONSENT AND DISCUSSION. CONSENT IS THOSE PASSED WITHOUT DISCUSSION BY THE BOARD. [3:07] Emily Koski: WE'LL ADHERE TO THE STAFF RECOMMENDATION LISTED ON THE AGENDA AND THE ITEM'S RECOMMENDED MOTION SECTION. IMPORTANT CONDITIONS WILL BE LISTED IN THE SAME SECTION. IF YOU AGREE WITH THE RECOMMENDATION, INCLUDING APICAT NEED TO DO ANYTHING. [3:23] Emily Koski: THE COMMISSION WILL PASS IT AS RECOMMENDED. IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOLLOWING THE DECISION, CHECK IN WITH A STAFF MEMBER ASSIGNED TO THE ITEM. IF YOU DISAGREE WITH THE RECOMMENDATION, PLEASE INDICATE YOU'D LIKE TO SPEAK AGAINST THE ITEM WHEN I ASK AND WE'PUT IT ON THE DISCUSSION AGENDA. WITH THAT, THE FOLLOWING ITEMS ARE ON THE AGENDA FOR THIS EVENING. [3:43] Emily Koski: NUMBER FOUR, COMMEMORATIVE STREET NAME ADDITION, STAFF IS RECOMMENDING FOR CONSENT. ANYONE HERE TO SPEAKGAIN THIS ITEM? . NUMBER FIVE, 900 20TH AVENUE SOUTH. [4:08] Emily Koski: STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL. IS ANYONE HERE TO SPEAK AGAINST THIS ITEM. THIS ITEM IS RECOMMENDED FOR CONTINUING ONE CYCLE TO OUR NOVEMBER 16 MEETING. NUMBER SIX, AMENDMENT TITLE 20, SITE PLAN REVIEW, STAFF RECOMMENDS FOR DISCUSSION. [4:26] Emily Koski: DITIONALLY THE PUBLICEARING FOR THIS ITEM OCCURRED AND WAS CLOSED ON OUR JULY 17 MEETING. NUMBER SOEFRN, AGRA TAX INCREMENT FINANCE PLAN, 901 27TH AVENUE SOUTH AND 2728 FRANKLIN AVENUE EAST. [4:42] Emily Koski: STAFF RECOMMENDS FOR CONSENT. THIS ITEM DOESN'T HAVE A PUBLIC HEARING. LET'S REVIEW THE ITEMS FOR CONSENT. ITEMS FOUR AND SEVEN FOR CONSENT. ITEM FIVE WE'LL MOVE FOR CONTINUANCE AND ITEM SIX FOR DISCUSSION. COULD I HAVE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE AGENDA AS AMENDED? [4:59] Commissioner Meyer: >> SO MOVED. [5:01] Commissioner: >> SECOND. [5:02] Emily Koski: >> IT HAS BEEN MOVED AND SECONDED. ANY DISCUSSION? SEEING NONE, ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. OPPOSED. ABSTENTIONS? THAT MOTION PASSES AND THE AGENDA HAS BEEN APPROVED. [5:14] Emily Koski: WE'LL PROCEED TO HANDLE THE AGENDA IN THIS ORDER. FIRST WE'LL VOTE ON THE CONSENT ITEM ON THE AGENDA THAT DOESN'T HAVE A PUBLIC HEARING. AFTER WE DEAL WITH THAT, WE CAN PROCEED TO OUR PUBLIC HEARING ITEM. DO I HAVE A MOTION TO ADOPT ITEM 7, AGRA TAX INKREEMENT FINANCE PLAN FOR 901 27TH AVENUE SOUTH AND 2728 FRANKLIN EAVE EAST SON CONSENT? [5:38] Commissioner: >> SO MOVE D. [5:41] Commissioner: >> MOVED AND SECONDED. ANY DISCUSSION? ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. OPPOSED? ANY ABSTENTIONS? THAT MOTION PASSES. I'LL NOW OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING ON CONSENT ITEMS. [5:55] Emily Koski: WOULD ANYONE LIKE TO SPEAK ON ITEM FOUR? I'M NOT SEEING ANYONE WANTING TO SPEAK. I'LL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING FOR THE CONSENT ITEM. DO I HAVE A MIONO ADOPT ITEMS FOUR AND FIVE AS RECOMMENDED BY STAFF? [6:11] Emily Koski: SORRY, MY APOLOGIES. NUMBER FOUR. [6:13] Commissioner: >> SO MOVED. [6:15] Commissioner: >> MOVED AND SECONDED. ANY DISCUSSION? ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. OPPOSED? ANY ABSTENTIONS? [6:27] Emily Koski: THAT MOTION PASSES. I'LL NOW OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING FOR THE CONSENT ITEM. WE DON'T HAVE NUMBER FIVE. THAT HAS BEEN MOVED. SORRY, WE MOVED A FEW THINGS AR. [6:42] Emily Koski: IF YOU ARE HERE FOR AGENDA FOUR AND EVEN -- SEVEN YOUR ITEM HAS BEEN APPROVED. ITEM SIX, WE NEED TO OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING TODAY. [6:58] Emily Koski: THE COMMISSION WILL MAKE A DECISION ON OCTOBER 16, BUT YOU PREFER TO GIVE YOUR TESTIMONY TONIGHT INSTEAD OF THE 16TH YOU MAY DO SO. OTHER WISE, YOU MAY ALSO HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK ON THE 16TH. WOULD ANYONE LIKE TO SPEAKO ITEM NUMBER FIVE? [7:18] Emily Koski: I AND NOT SEEING ANYBODY. I'LL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING. MY APOLOGIES, CLERK. CAN I GET CLARIFICATION. IF WE CONTINUE IT, I THINK WE SHOULD KEEP THE PUBLIC HEARING OPEN. [7:34] Emily Koski: I WILL NOT CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING. RETRACT THAT. THEN DO I HAVE A MOTION TO CONTINUE ITEM FIVE TO OCTOBER 16? [7:41] Commissioner Meyer: >> SO MOVED. [7:45] Commissioner: >> SECOND. [7:47] Emily Koski: >> THAT HAS BEEN MOVED AND SECONDED. [7:50] Emily Koski: DISCUSSION? SEEING NONE, ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. OPPOSED? ANY ABSTENTIONS. THAT MOTION PASSES AND ITEM FIVE WILL BE MOVED TO OUR OCTOBER 16 MEETING. [8:05] Emily Koski: OUR NEXT DISCUSSION ITEM IS NUMBER SIX, AMENDMENT TITLE 20, SITE PLAN REVIEW STANDARDS, WHICH IS BEING PRESENTED BY MADEL MOUTA. [8:24] Emily Koski: MY APOLOGIES. WELCOME. [9:00] Madel Mouta: >> GOOD EVENING, COMMISSIONERS. MY NAME IS MADEL MOUTA. I'M HERE TO GO OVER THE MOST RECENT UPDATES TO EXTERIOR BUILDING GUIDELINES AND MATERIAL N ANALYSIS WE STARTED. AFTER THIS I CAN OPEN UP FOR ANY QUESTIONS YOU MAY HAVE. [9:16] Madel Mouta: I'D LIKE TO START BY EXPLAINING, AGAIN, WHY THESE GUIDELINES ARE IMPORTANT. SO EXTERIOR BUILDING MATERIALS HAVE A REALLY BIG IMPACTN TH QUALITY AND SAFETY OF THE BUILT ENVIRONMENT, INCLUDING LIFE SAFETY, BUILDING DURABILITY AND SUSTAINABILITY, HOUSING COSTS AND AESTHETIC COMPATIBILITY WITH EXISTING AND HISTORIC BUILDING STOCK. [9:38] Madel Mouta: MINNEAPOLIS HAS BEEN EXPERIENCING STRONG GROWTH GROWTH AND POPULATION IN THE LAST DECADE THAT'S BROUGHT A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF NEW DEVELOPMENT AND NEW ARCHITECTURAL TECHNOLOGIES TO THE MARKETPLACE. THOSE GUIDELINES ARE INTENDED TO STRENGTHEN THE CITY'S ABILITY TO REGULATE THE STANDARDS BY WHICH WE REGULATE NEW CONSTRUCTION. [9:57] Madel Mouta: HAVING EXTERIOR BUILDING MATERI SOMETHING BRAND NEW TO MINNEAPOLIS. WE, AGAIN -- WE HAD GUIDELINES IN PLACE FROM 2014 TO 2021. AND THESE GUIDELINES CAME TO -- THEY WERE CREATE WITH THE HELP OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION. [10:17] Madel Mouta: AND THEY WERE TO ADDRESS ISSUES LIKE POOR DESIGN, EQUITY ISSUES, BUSY MATERIAL PALLETS AND BUILDING MATERIAL FAILURES. SO SINCE 2021, IN SPITE OF HAVING ADOPTED POLICY GUIDANCE IN MINNEAPOLIS 2040 AND ALSO THE MIEAPOLIS PL FOR SUSTAINABLE GROWTH, THE CITY HAS HAD NO EXTERIOR BUILDING MATERIAL GUIDELINES OR REGULATIONS IN PLACE AND HAVE NOT HAD TOOLS TO GUIDE THE DURABILITY AND QUALITY OF THE EXTERIOR BUILDING MATERIALS. [10:48] Madel Mouta: IS EXTERIOR BUILDING MATERIAL GUIDELINES WILL NOT BE INCLUDED IN THE ZONING CODE APART FROM ONE REFERENCE FOR APPLICANTS TO REFER TO A ONE-PAGE GUIDELINE DOCUMENT WHICH IS IN FRONT OF YOU NOW. AGAIN, IT'S A ONE-PAGE DOCUMENT AND THEY ARE MEANT TO BE CONCISE, WLE PROVIDING MAXIMUM FLEXIBILITY FOR DEVELOPMENTS TO PROVIDE BOTH AFFORDABLE AND QUALITY ENVIRONMENTS THROUGHOUT THE CITY. [11:14] Madel Mouta: THEY PLACE A GREATER EMPHASIS ON USING MORE DURABLE MATERIALS AT THE BASE OF THE BUILDING TO ENHANCE THE DURABILITY AND PEDESTRIAN EXPERIENCE AND ALLOW LONGER LASTING MATERIALS THAT WEREN'T PREVIOUSLY ALLOWED TO BE USED AT MIDDLE, TOP, TRIM OR ACCENT TO THE BUILDING. [11:35] Madel Mouta: THESE GUIDELINES WOULD APPLY TO NEW BUILDIN SUBJECT TO SIT PLAN REVIEW. THEY WOULDN'T BE APPLICABLE TO ONE TO THREE RESIDENTIAL BUILDINGS, WHICH REGULATED DIFFERENTLY AND GUIDELINES ARE NOT APPLICABLE TO CLADDING OF THE BUILDINGS THAT WERE NEVER SUBJECT TO SITE PLAN REVIEW. [11:58] Madel Mouta: THE LAST COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE MEETING, ON SUGGEST 17, WE HAVE HADDED TWO ADDITIONAL GUIDELINES AND UPDATED THE DIAGRAMS TO CLARIFY THE DEFINITIONS OF BASE MIDDLE AND TOP. SO THE TWO NEW GUIDELINES ARE AS FOLLOWS. [12:17] Madel Mouta: THE IMPLEMENTATION OF MOISTURE SYSTEMS WHERE FEASIBLE IS ENCOURAGED. AND THE USE OF RECYCLED OR REPURPOSED LOCALLY SOURCED MATERIALS IS ENCOURAGE EDENCOUR MAY RECALL FROM OUR LAST MEETING AT THE COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE, WE BEGAN TO DO SUSTAINABILITY ANALYSIS AND MATERIAL ANALYSIS. [12:46] Madel Mouta: WITH ROCKY MOUNTAIN INSTITUTE ON THESE GUIDELINES AND HOW WE MIGHT INCORPORATE THE SUSTAINABILITY MORE INTENSIVE SUSTAINABILITY GUIDELINES INTO THE AMENDMENT. BUT WE HAVE DETERMINED AFTER SPEAKING WITH RMI THAT THE EXTERIOR BUILDING GUIDELINES ARE NOT THE MOST EFFECTIVE PLACE TO DO THIS BECAUSE THEY DON'T TAKE A COMPREHENSIVE LOOK AT THE BUILDING STRUCTURE, THE ENVELOPE OR FULL ASSEMBLY OF A BUILDING. [13:14] Madel Mouta: NOR THE FINISHES. SO THIS IS GOING TO A CONTINUED EFFORT LIKELY INVOLVING MULTIPLE CITY DEPARTMENTS TO IMPLEMENT THEIR RECENTLY ADOPTED CLIMATE EQUITY ACTION PLAN TO DEVELOP A PROCESS. [13:32] Madel Mouta: DEVELOP A PROCESS TO -- NEW CARBON MATERIALS AND SET A GOAL TO INCREASE EMBODIED CARBON. AGAIN, WE DETERMINED THIS IS NOT THE BEST PLACE FOR INTENSIVE REGULATIONS, BUT WE ADDED THE FOLLOWING GUIDELINE, USE OF RECYCLED OR REPURPOSED LALLY SOURCED MATERIALS IS ENCOURAGED. [13:53] Madel Mouta: I'D ALSO LIKE TO REMIND YOU THAT WE HAVE SUSTAINABILITY REGULATIONS IN OUR ZONING CODE CHAPTER 540 BUILT FORM OVERLAY DISTRICTS FOR THE PREMIUM. [14:10] Madel Mouta: MOVING ON TO THE STUDY WE DID, WE LOOKED A LOT AT THIS GRAPH. THAT BASICALLY COMPARES BODY CARBON CONDITION OF DIFFERENT MA TEERLS GLOOIFRNLT AND CHRIS MAGWOOD OF RMI, WE TOOK THE STUDY AND EXPANDED ON IT TO STUDY VARIOUS MATERIALS AND THEIR EMBODIED CARBON AND INITIAL MATERIAL COSTS COMPARED TO THE CARBON EMISSIONS AND MATERIAL COSTS OVER THE LIFE SPAN OF THE BUILDING. [14:42] Madel Mouta: THIS DIAGRAM HERE IS JUST A SNAPSHOT IN TIME. IT DOESN'T ACCOUNT FOR MATERIALS BEING REPLACED OVER THE LIFE SPAN OF A BUILDING. SO THIS IS WHAT THE -- LIKE, THE MEAT OF THE STUDY INCLUDED. [14:59] Madel Mouta: BEGUN, WE HAVE THIS TABLE THAT INCLUDES ALL THE MATERIALS. IT INCLUDES THE BODY CARBON PER SQUARE FOOT. THE EXPECTED USEFUL LIFE OF THE MAT MATERIAL. [15:16] Madel Mouta: SOU SOURCES LIKE FANNIE MAE AND C CPIA. ALL THAT WAS USED TO GET THE LIST. IT INCLUDED HOW MANY INSTALLATIONS OVER THE ARC BUILDING LIFE SPAN WHICH WE SET AT 60 YEARS AND THEN ALSO THE BUILDING LIFE SPAN OF CARBON EMISSIONS PER SQUARE FOOT. [15:43] Madel Mouta: INSTALLED COST RANGE AND THEN -- INSTALLED COST OVER THE LIFE SPAN OF THE BUILDING. THAT WAS A LOT OF INFORMATION AND WE WANTED TO TAKE IT AND GRAPHICALLY SET THAT OUT FOR YOU JUST TO HAVE A BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF IT SO THIS -- THE FOLLOWING GRAPHS SHOW SOME OF THOSE NUMBERS. [16:08] Madel Mouta: THEY ARE BASICALLY DIFFERENT GOALS OR DIFFERENT THINGS THAT WE FIND IMPORTANT WHEN LOOKING AT MATERIALS. SO THE AVERAGE USEFUL LIFE EXPECTANCY IS VERY IMPORTANT BECAUSE THE LOWER THE ULE IS, THEN THE MORE TIME YOU'LL HAVE TO INCREASE THAT OVER THE LIFE SPAN OF A BUILDING. [16:29] Madel Mouta: SOME OF THE MATERIALS LIKE BRICK SO MASONRY, CMU AND --ND HAVE A HIGHER LIFE EXPECTANCY VERSUS SOME OF THE MORE NATURAL MATERIALS SUCH AS WOOD, BLACK, WHICH IS PRETTY LOW AND THEN METALS AND FIBER CEMENT IN THE MID MIDDLE. [16:57] Madel Mouta: HERE IS THE CO2, CARBON EMISSIONS PER SQUARE FOOT. IT IS VERY [INDISCERNIBLE] TO LOOK AT BECAUSE WE CAN SEE FROM THE TOP OF THE GRAPH, THE CIRCLES ARE WHERE THE BODY CARBON IS AND THE SQUARES ARE THE BUILDING AND CARBON EMISSIONS OF THAT MATERIAL. [17:15] Madel Mouta: IF YOU HAVE TO REPLACE IT, IT'S BEEN [INDISCERNIBLE] SOME OF THESE ARE SUPER INTENSIVE IN CARBON EMISSIONS. LIKE A GLASS CURTAIN WALL. YOU CAN SEE IT HAS HUGE CARBON EMISSIONS AND OTHERS LIKE WOOD, MUCH LESS. [17:40] Madel Mouta: AND OF COURSE WE HAVE THE BRICKS IS A BIT HIGH. WE ALSO WERE LOOKING AT OTHER OPTIONS LIKE BRICK VENEER IS MUCH LESS CARBON INTENSIVE THAN AN ACTUAL FULL [INDISCERNIBLE]. [17:57] Madel Mouta: I JUST WANTED TO EXPLAIN THE COLORS WE CHOSE IN THIS -- THESE GRAPHS. THE GREEN ARE SHOWING, LIKE, THAT THIS IS HELPING US ACHIEVE OUR GOALS MORE OF HAVING LOWER EMBODIED CARBON, VERSUS, LIKE, THE BLACK -- THAT GRADIENT SCALE. [18:16] Madel Mouta: ITELPS USCHIE THE GOAL LESS. IT IS JUST A RANGE OF NUMBERS BASED ON THE DATA. WHEN YOU GET INTO THE GRAPH FOR THE COST OF MATERIAL PER SQUARE FOOT. AND THE CIRCLES ARE THE INSTALLED COST PER SQUARE FOOT VERSUS THE SQUARES WHICH ARE TOTAL COST OVER THE 60 YEAR LIFE SPAN OF THE BUILDING. [18:39] Madel Mouta: SOME OF THESE THAT WE FOUND INTERESTING ARE GLASS, AGAIN, IS VERY COSTLY. AND THEN YOU HAVE SOME THAT ARE [INDISCERNIBLE] YOU'RE NOT GOING TO HAVE TO REPLACE THE WHOLE THING. [19:00] Madel Mouta: THEN YOU HAVE WOOD, AGAIN, WHICH IS AN INTERESTING ONE. IT STARTS OFF AT -- INSTALLED COST, $25 PER SQUARE FOOT, BUT OVER THE LIFE SPAN OF THE BUILDING, ENDS UP COSTING MORE THAN A BRICK AT $60 PER SQUARE FOOT. [19:22] Madel Mouta: MATERIAL ANALYSIS, THE FIRST COUPLE GRAPHS WERE DATA THAT WE HAD HARD NUMBERS FOR AND SOME OF THE GOALS AND THINGS THAT WE FIND ARE IMPORTANT, BUT WE ALSO HAVE OTHER GOALS WE'RE TRYING TO MEET WITH THESE GUIDELINES. [19:37] Madel Mouta: SO ALONG WITH HAVING LONG LIFE SPAN, MEETING OUR SUSTAINABILITY GOALS, AFFORDABILITY GOALS, WE HAVE EQUITY GOALS. PROVIDING [INDISCERNIBLE] ELEMENTS IN THE DESIGN OF BUILDINGS ALSO HAVE PROVIDING DURABLE MATERIALS THAT ARE RESILIENT SO THEY CAN WITHSTAND DAMAGE. [19:59] Madel Mouta: AND WE ALSO HAVE IMPORTANT SUBTYPE PRINCIPLES, WHICH IS CRIME PREVENTION THROUGH ENVIRONMENTAL DESIGN. AND THE SPECIFIC PRINCIPLE WHICH IS THE EYES ON STREET. THE MORE EYES ON STREET YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE MORE VISIBILITY AND CREATE A SAFER ENVIRONMENT. [20:19] Madel Mouta: MATERIALS, FOR EXAMPLE, LIKE GLASS CASEMENT WINDOWS OR CURTAIN WALLS, THEY DON'T HAVE A LONG LIFE SPAN IN COMPARISON TO OTHER MATERIALS. THEY ARE VERY HIGH IN EMBODIED CARBON. ALSO IN THEIR AFFORDABILITY. [20:35] Madel Mouta: BUT THEY DO PROVIDE AN EQUITY ASPECT OF LIVE ABILITY, ALSO HUMAN SKILL. AND, AGAIN, EYES ON THE STREET CONCEPT. SO ALL OF THESE MATERIALS -- LIKE, COMPARING THEM -- NONE OF THEM -- LIKE, THEY'RE ALL -- THEY ALL HAVE THEIR STRENGTHS IN DIFFERENT AREAS.AND, AGAIN, THE GUIDELINES ARE BASICALLY OUR ATTEMPT TO TAKE INTO ALL OUR GOALS INTOCCOUNT AND PROPROSE SOMETHING THAT WILL TRY TO GET AT A LOT OF THESE DIFFERENT ISSUES. [21:13] Madel Mouta: AND THAT'S JUST THE REST OF THE MATERIAL ANALYSIS. AGAIN, THEY ARE VERY GOOD AT DIFFERENT THINGS. I'LL END AGAIN WITH THE GUIDELINES THEMSELVES AND OPEN UP TO ANY QUESTIONS YOU MAY HAVE. [21:35] Emily Koski: >> HANKYOU. WE HAV A COUPLE QUESTIONS HERE. COMMISSIONER MEYER. [21:38] Commissioner Meyer: >> I'M GRATEFUL FOR ALL THE WORK YOU HAVE DONE ON THIS. I'M GLAD WE GOT DEEP INTO THIS DISCUSSION. I KNOW I HAVE LEARNED A LOT AND I FEEL LIKE WE HAVE MUCH BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF THESE DIFFERENT THINGS, WHICH IS NOT JUST HELPFUL BUT ALSO IN GUIDING DESIGN REVIEWS OF FUTURE PROJECTS EVEN IF THEY ARE COMPLIANT. [22:06] Commissioner Meyer: SO FIRST, I WANT TO ASK A FEW QUESTIONS AND THEN I'LL LET OTHER COMMISSIONERS ASK QUESTIONS AND THEN I WANT TO LATER ON, DISCUSS THE AMENDMENTS THAT I HAVE BEEN CONTEMPLATING. BUT FIRST, I WANTED TO ASK, ON THE CHART OF POLLUTION BY MATERIAL, WAS GLASS ON THERE. [22:32] Commissioner Meyer: I WAS SURPRISED GLASS WAS AT THE TOP BUT MAYBE IT JUST WASN'T INCLUDED ON THE CHART FROM FORE. [22:42] Madel Mouta: >> WHICH CHART? [22:43] Commissioner Meyer: >> THE ONE THAT SHOWED GLASS ON THE TOP AND THE EARLIER ONE THAT WE SAW BEFORE. WAS GLASS ON THERE. [22:48] Madel Mouta: >> [OFF MIC] CODY ADDED. [22:50] Commissioner Meyer: >> IT WASN'T INCLUDED ON THAT ONE. OKAY. SO THAT IS NEW INFORMATION I WASN'T AWARE OF. GLASS IS THE WORST. OBVIOUSLY THE GOOD -- LIKE YOU SAID, EYES ON THE STREET -- OKAY. [23:09] Commissioner Meyer: WHAT IS POLY APPROPRPROLYPROPYL. [23:14] Madel Mouta: >> IT IS SIMILAR TO OTHER SIDING EXCEPT FOR THE WAY IT IS MADE. IT IS MADE WITH A RESIN. [23:25] Commissioner Meyer: >> THAT'S IT FOR NOW. I'LL COME BACK WITH MY AMENDMENTS LATER. [23:44] Commissioner: >> QUESTION FOR YOU. IN THE START OF THE PRESENTATION, THERE WAS A MENTION OF THE CLIMATE ACTION PLAN. I JUST WANTED TO GO BACK TO THAT QUICKLY AND ASK -- SO IT SOUNDS -- WHAT I HEARD AND I WANT TO MAKE SURE I'M HEARING THIS CORRECTLY S THAT THIS EXISTS, THAT IT IS A GOAL TO BRING TOGETHER MULTIPLE DIFFERENT DEPARTMENTS TO TALK ABOUT HOW DIFFERENT POLICIES WOULD FIT INTO THIS, BUT SEEMED LIKE WE WOULD DELIVER THEM SEPARATING A CLIMATE EQUITY PLAN FROM THE BUILDING MATERIAL PLAN AT THIS POINT IN TIME, RIGHT? [24:17] Madel Mouta: >> YES. THE REASON WE'RE NOT GOING TO BE INCLUDG MORE EXTENSIVE REGULATIONS IN THE GUIDELINES, WE HAD A CONVERSATION WITH REBECCA -- WHO WORKS FOR THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN INSTITUTE, KIND OF EXPLAIN TO HER WHAT IT WAS WE WERE TRYING TO DO AND HAVE ANOTHER GRAPH THAT I INCLUDED AT THE END HERE. [24:39] Madel Mouta: ANOTHER IMAGE FROM ONE OF THEIR DOCUMENTS. . AND IN THE BUILDING THESE ARE THE TYPICAL HIGH BODIED CARBON ELEMENTS. YOU HAVE THIS STRUCTURE AND THE THINGS THAT MAKE UP THE STRUCTURE, THE BUILDING ENVELOPE AND THE FINISHES. [24:55] Madel Mouta: OUR GUIDELINES ONLY LOOK AT THE EXTERIOR CLADDING MATERIAL AND NOT THE FULL WALL ASSEMBLY. IT IS A HUGE COMPONENT OF CARBON EMISSIONS, BUT DOESN'T TAKE A WHOLE LOOK AT THE ENTIRE BUILDING -- THE WALL ASSEMBLY OR THE REST OF THE BUILDING. [25:11] Madel Mouta: SO THAT IS WHY WE DECIDED THAT THIS SHOULD CONTINUE OR -- THAT WE WILL CONTINUE THIS. AGAIN, WITH OTHER CITY DEPARTMENTS FOR THE CLIMATE PLAN. [25:21] Commissioner: >> OKAY. [25:27] Commissioner: DELIBERATE SEPARATION BECAU IT, SEEMS LIKE THAT IS EXACTLY THE CONVERSATION WE SHOULD BE HAVING. I THINK -- WHAT I'M HEARING YOU SAY IS THAT THE BUILDING MATERIAL ELEMENTS IS A PART OF OVERALL DEVELOPMENT. AND SO IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO LOOK AT ONE PIECE AND NOT ANOTHER. I'D ENCOURAGE US TO LEAN MORE HEAVILY INTO INCLUDING THINGS THAT EXIST IN THE CLIMATE EQUITY PLAN INTO OUR BUILDING MATERIALS, INTO EXISTING STRUCTURE MATERIALS, INTO FINISHES AND VARIETY OF THESE OTHER THINGS SO WE ARE MORE ACCURATELY ANALYZING THINGS THROUGH THAT LENS AND FURTHER EVALUATION OF DEVELOPMENT WB THAT LENS AND NOT A DISTANCING OF THAT EVALUATION FROM THAT LENS MOVING FORWARD. [26:13] Madel Mouta: >> I DON'T KNOW THAT IT IS, LIKE, SO MUCH OF A DIFFERENCE, THOUGH BECAUSE, LIKE, -- LIKE I SAID THERE ARE OTHER WAYS TO REDUCE EMBODIED CARBON AND THE EXTERIOR BUILDING MATERIALS ARE NOT THE ONLY WAY. AND IF THE GUIDELINES WERE ONLY LOOKING AT SUSTAINABILITY, MAKES TOGETHER. LIKE, DO ALL OF I BUT WE DO HAVE OTHER ISSUES WE ARE TRYING TO DEAL WITH LIKE PEPTIDE ISSUES AND EQUITY ISSUES WHICH ARE ALSO HUGE. [26:43] Madel Mouta: AND ALSO ONE OF THE REASONS WE DID START HAVING GUIDELINES BACK IN 2014. AGAIN, WE SAW THAT AREAS IN THE CITY THAT ARE MORE AFFLUENT ARE ABLE TO HAVE NICER QUALITY MATERIALS. AND OF COURSE WE HAD THE AFFORDABILITY ASPECT, WHICH -- IT MIGHT BE CHEAPER INITIALLY TO HAVE LOWER COST MATERIALS OUT FRONT, BUT OVER THE LIFE SPAN OF THE BUILDING IT IS GREATER TO FIX THOSE IF YOU CONSTANTLY HAVE TO MAINTAIN AND REPLACE THEM. [27:17] Madel Mouta: WHICH PLACES A BURDEN ON RENTERS AND HOMEOWNERS. [27:23] Commissioner: >> THIS IS MORE OF a COMMENT SO I'LL SAVE MOST OF IT FOR AFTER YOU'RE DONE, BUT I DO THINK THAT IS AN INTERESTING STATEMENT, TOO. I MEAN, GOVERNMENT CAN FUNCTION IN A LOT OF DIFFERENT WAYS. ONE OF THE WAYS IT CAN FUNCTION IS IT CAN FORCE THE PRIVATE SECTOR THROUGH -- OR THE MRIK SECTOR THROUGH REGULATIONS TO ELEVATE THE WAY THAT BUILDINGS ARE BUILT. [27:37] Commissioner: TO YOUR POINT, THE MORE AFFLUENT PARTS OF E CITY ARE GETTING BETTER BUILDING MATERIALS BY REQUIRING THAT OF DEVELOPERS IN ALL NEIGHBORHOODS THE ATTEMPT WOULD BE TO ELEVATE THAT FURTHER. BUT ONE THING WE HAVE TO BE CAREFUL ABOUT IN A HOUSING SITUATION THAT WE ARE IN RIGHT NOW AND GIVEN THE CURRENT DEMANDS THAT WE ARE FACING WITH CLIMATE CHANGE, THE CLIMATE CRISIS, IS THAT -- SHOULD WE BE LIMITING THAT TO THAT EXTENT MOVING FORWARD IS A QUESTION FOR THIS GROUP TO CONSIDER. [28:09] Madel Mouta: >> I WANT TO ADD THAT THE GUIDELINES A WHAVE THEM ARE VERY FLEXIBLE. YOU ARE ABLE TO ARE ABLE TO ASK FOR ALTERNATIVE COMPLIANCE IN ORDER TO GET SOME OF THOSE MATERIALS IN DIFFERENT AREAS. [28:28] Emily Koski: >> COMMISSIONER ALPER. [28:30] Commissioner Alper: >> I DON'T HAVE ANY QUESTIONS. SO IF OTHER PEOPLE HAVE QUESTIONS. OTHERWISE I HAVE FEW COMMENTS. I'LL WAIT. [28:44] Emily Koski: >> COMMISSIONER EMERICK. [28:46] Commissioner Emerick: >> THANK YOU. IN THE SLIDES ANDATERIAL ANALYSIS, UNDER THE RUBRICS OF-I THINK IT IS EQUITY, HUMAN SCALE AND THE [INDISCERNIBLE] CAN YOU WALK ME THROUGH SORT OF WHAT ARE THE METRIC THAT IS ARE USED TO MAKE THOSE DETERMINATIONS IN THOSE CATEGORIES FOR MATERIALS. [29:06] Madel Mouta: >> I THINK FOR THE EQUITY PIECE, I WAS JUST COMPARING, LIKE, SOME OF THOSE THINGS, LIKE THE LIFE SPAN AND ALSO THE INITIAL COST VERSUS THE TOTAL COST OVER LIFE SP OF THE BUILDING. [29:21] Madel Mouta: SO THOSE -- LIKE, DEFINITELY THE FOUR COLUMNS, THE FIRST FOUR COLUMNS, AGAIN, IS TIED BACK COMPLETELY TO THE DATA WE HAVE AND THE LAST FOUR ARE A LITTLE MORE ANECDOTAL AND HAVE A LITTLE BIT MORE [INDISCERNIBLE]. [29:39] Madel Mouta: THE HUMAN SCALE THAT'S ALSO A GUIDELINE TO INCORPORATE HUMAN SCALE ELEMENT. SO FOR EXAMPLE, BRICK, HELPS US ACHIEVE THAT GOAL MORE BECAUSE IT'S MORE OF A HUMAN SCALE ELEMENT VERSUS A LARGE, BLANK WALL. [29:57] Madel Mouta: AND RESILIENCE, THAT WAS BASED ON JUST OUR ANALYSIS OF HOW MATERIALS ARE ABLE TO WITHSTAND DAMAGE FROM BEING CLOSE TO THE PUBLIC REALING. SO GETTING BANGED UP BY CARTS OR SNOW PLOWS OR SUCH. [30:13] Commissioner Emerick: >> GOT IT. THANKS. I AGREE THERE IS A MEASURE OF SUBJECTIVITY TO THOSE -- FURTHER DOWN THAN THE REALLY DATA DRIVEN EARLY ONES I WAS COMPELLING BY THE [INDISCERNIBLE] WITH THE GLASS AND GLASS CURTAIN. [30:33] Commissioner Emerick: I LIVE IN SECTION 32 BUILDING CLOSE TO DOWN. WE HAVE APARTMENT UNITS ON THE FIRST FLOOR THAT ARE FLOOR TO CEILING WINDOWS AND IT IS HARDER TO RENT THEM BECAUSE THERE IS A SENSE OF LESS SAFETY, LESS PRIVACY. I DON'T KNOW THAT IT WORKS AS, LIKE, AN ENVIRONMENTAL CRIME PREVENTION IN THAT CASE. [30:54] Commissioner Emerick: AND SO I WONDER -- APPLIED IN DIFFERENT SITUATIONS, IF WE S THE SAME RATINGS FOR THESE DIFFERENT MATERIALS. [31:02] Madel Mouta: >> SURE. I THINK IT DEFINITELY DEEPENDS ON THE DESIGNER TO ADDRESS SOME OF THOSE ISSUES. BUT I THINK THE BEST OUTCOME THAT WE'D LIKE IS TO HAVE THE EYES ON THE STREET WHILE PROVIDING PRIVACY FOR THE TENANTS. [31:32] Emily Koski: >> ANYMORE QUESTIONS. COMMISSIONER FORD. [31:36] Commissioner Ford: >> [OFF MIC]. YOU MADE REFERENCE TO -- THAT THEY WERE MORE SUSTAINABLE TO REGULATIONS IN -- I THINK IT WAS CHAPTER 540. CAN YOU TELL US WHAT THOSE ARE? [31:51] Madel Mouta: >> NOT OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD, BUT THEY ARE -- I BELIEVE IF YOU GET A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF [INDISCERNIBLE] CREDITS YOU GET MORE AGREEMENT FOR THE BUILDING. I CAN LOOK IT UP. [32:23] City Staff: >> PRIMARILY THOSE STANDARDS ARE INCENTIVES. FOR EXAMPLE, [INDISCERNIBLE] RATIO PREMIUMS THAT WILL BE AWARDED FOR CMATE FORRD BU BUILDINGS. THINGS THAT ARE REFERENCED IN THE CODE THERE. THERE IS AN ELEMENT OF MATERIALS. SUSTAINABILITY BUILT INTO THOSE RATING SYSTEMS. [33:03] City Staff: >> I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU WANT ME TO -- I HAD IT PULLED UP BECAUSE I MADE REFERENCE [INDISCERNIBLE] THIS IS CHAPTER 527, DEVELOPMENT, THE CHARTER IS 527-2 THIS IS THE ENVIRONMENTAL SUSTAINABILITY RESILIENCY SECTION. [33:27] City Staff: >> THIS IS THE WAYS YOU CAN PLAY A PREMIUM FOR A DENSITY BONUS. SO DEPENDING ON WHICH ZONING CATEGORY YOU'RE IN YOU CAN GET EITHER ONE OR TWO ADDITIONAL DENSITIES AND THIS IS ONE OF THE OPTIONS. SO THE ENVIRONMENTAL SUSTAINABILITY AND CLIMATE RESIENCY ONE I THAT ANY CLIMATE STANDARDS -- SO LEAD PHIUS EJC, ET CETERA, THAT ACHIEVES MINNESOTA SUSTAINABILITY ENERGY STANDARD, A 60% ENERGY/CARBON REDUCTION FROM THE 2003 AVERAGE BUILDING BASELINE. [34:07] City Staff: >> THE EVALUATION SHALL BE SUBMITTED BY A CERTIFIED ARCHITECT, WATER INFORMATION SHALL BE SUBMITTED ANNUALLY AS PART OF THE BENCHMARKG PROGRAM. [34:24] Emily Koski: >> I'M NOT SEEING ANY QUESTION FROM STAFF. ANY DISCUSSION OR KEY QUESTIONS BY THE COMMISSION RELATE TODAY THIS ITEM? COMMISSIONER ALPER. [34:33] Commissioner Alper: >> I PREPARED A FEW WORDS. THIS EVENING I SPENT MOST OF TODAY REVIEWING STAFF REPORTS AND LOOKING AT THE DOCUMENTS THAT WE RECEIVE FROM MANY OF YOU IN THE AUDIENCE. [34:46] Commissioner Alper: EXTENSIVE COMMENTS. I HAVE HAD NOT JUST ONE, BUT TWO SEPARATE COALITIONS CONTACT ME URGING US NOT TO PURSUE THESE REGULATIONS. A RIGHT NOW I'VE BECOME MORE CONVINCED WE HAVE AESTHETIC BUILDING REGULATION THAT IS ARE HAS -- -- YOU KNOW, REALLY APPRECIATE STAFF DIGGING MORE INTO THE EMBODIED CARBON EVENCED TONIGHT, I SEE VERY AS FEW CHANGES FROM OUR JULY 17 -- [35:32] Commissioner Alper: THE VERSION THAT WAS PUT FORTH. A LOT OF WEIGHT IS PLACED ON DURABILITY, YET NO DEFINITION OF DURABILITY IN REGULATION. A LOT OF DISCUS -- DISCUSSION OF HIGH QUALITY MATERIALS. [35:48] Commissioner Alper: VERY SUBJECTIVE. HIGH QUALITY MATERIALS SHOULD BE OUR NORTH STAR GIVEN OUR CURRENT HOUSING CRIS, B IT IS N EVEN LISTED IN THE GUIDING PRINCIPLES I ENSCOURGE YOU TO LOOK AT THAT. [36:04] Commissioner Alper: INDEED, IN THE ANALYSIS PORTION OF OUR PACKET, JUSTIFYING THESE REGULATIONS THAT STATES HOUSING AFFORDABILITY CONTINUES TO BE A GROWING ISSUE THAT MINNEAPOLIS RESIDENTS FACE. I AGREE. I CAN GO MORE INTO THAT. IT STRIKES ME -- IT STRUCK THE WRITER OF MIN POST ARTICLE FROM BACK IN JULY WHO EITHER SITS NOW OR FORMALLY SAT ON SAINT PAUL PLANNING COMMISSION, IS THAT THESE EXTERIOR BLDING REGULATIONS COU HAVE THE OPPOSITE UNINTENDED IMPACT ON AFFORDABILITY. [36:35] Commissioner Alper: SO TO SUM IT UP, I FEEL THAT BEAUTY IS IN THE EYE OF THE BEHOLDER. I'D MUCH RATHER THESE REGULATIONS HAD A STRONGER BASE -- PARDON THE PUN -- IN, LIKE, EITHER AFFORDABILITY OR CLIMATE SOLUTIONS. [36:55] Commissioner Alper: THAT IS WHERE I STAND TONIGHT. I'D LIKE T -- WE ARE LACKING OUR PRESIDENT, VICE PRESIDENT AND SECRETARY. [37:11] Commissioner Alper: AND ALSO THAT WE NOTICE AND REOPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING AT THAT MEETING. I'LL CLOSE THERE. [37:30] Emily Koski: >> IN ADDITION TO BEING THE PRESIDENT, VICE PRESIDENT AND SECRETARY, THAT INCLUDES OUR ARCHITECT AND OUR [INDISCERNIBLE] RSON WHO D LIKE TO HAVE INVOLVED IN THIS DISCUSSION AND WE WANT TO HEAR FROM ALL OF YOU, BUT TO MAKE THAT FAIR, WE NEED TO GIVE PUBLIC NOTICE SO THAT EVERYONE CAN BE ABLE TO -- WE WANT TO HAVE YOU ALL COME BACK AT THE NEXT MEETING. [37:51] Emily Koski: BUT I'M STILL GLAD THAT WE KEPT THIS ON THE DISCUSSION INSTEAD OF CONTINUING RIGHT AWAY BECAUSE I WANTED TO GET MORE INTO THIS DISCUSSION AND GET MORE FEEDBACK WITH COMMISSIONERS AND THE PUBLIC ABOUT SOME POTENAL AMENDMENTS TO CONSIDER. [38:13] Commissioner Meyer: >> WE RECEIVED A PROPOSAL, COUNTER PROPOSAL FROM CODY FISHER WHO WAS MENTIONED IN THE STAFF REPORT FOR A DIFFERENT WAYS TO DO THIS. THAT WAS FORWARDED TO THE PUBLIC RECORDS. [38:30] Commissioner Meyer: I DON'T KNOW HOW PEOPLE WANT TO PLAN THAT, BUT IT IS OUT THERE. IF YOU WANT TO LOOK AT IT MORE CLOSELY. I THINK IT IS WORTH DISCUSSING, SO WE HAVE AN IDEA OF WHAT IT WOULD MEAN IF WE WERE TO MAXIMIZEOR THE CLIMATE IMPACT. [38:45] Commissioner Meyer: WE HAVE A LOT OF DIFFERENT CRITERIA TO BE CONSIDERED. WE HAVE AFFORDABILITY, AESTHETICS, EYES ON THE STREET: DURABILITY, AND A NEW ONE THAT WE BROUGHT INTO THE DISCUSSION IS THE CARBON POLLUTION. [39:08] Commissioner Meyer: THE WAY I SEE IT IS WE CAN KIND OF INCREASE EACH ONE OF THOSE, WHICH -- WE MAXIMIZE FROM ONE AND WE ARE SRTIN THE OTH SOMEWHAT. THE COUNTER PROPOSAL THAT IS WHAT I WOULD ENVISION AS CARBON 1 MAXIMIZING, SO THEY TALK ABOUT SET AGO CARBON BUDGET FOR EACH OF THESE THINGS AND ESCALATING THE BUDGET EACH YEAR WHICH WOULD HAVE THE EFFECT OF -- AFTER IT IS FULLY IMPLEMENTED MEANING THAT BUILDERS WOULD BE PROHIBITED OR WOULD HAVE A VERY DIFFICULT TIME MEETING THOSE CONDITIONS IF THEY WERE BUILDING OUT OF THE HIGH CARBON MATERIALS. [39:50] Commissioner Meyer: LIKE [INDISCERNIBLE] . THAT IS MORE ON THE MAXIMIZING ON CHLIMATE. I'M NOT GOING TO PROSE THAT AT THIS TIME, BUT IT IS GOOD TO HAVE THAT IN THE BACK OF OUR HEADS OF WHAT WE COULD DO IF WE WANT TO MAXIMIZE ON THAT. [40:13] Commissioner Meyer: MY AMENDMENTS WOULD PUSH -- I WOULD SAY MORE TOWARDS THE CARBON FRIENDLINESS. AND I HAVE FRF THEM -- I'M GOING TO START WITH THE EASIEST ONE, AND THIS E-MAIL -- I PROPOSE THE AMENDMENTS SHOULD BE IN PUBLIC RECORD SO PEOPLE CAN SEE THE WHOLE THING AND MY REASONING BEHIND THEM. [40:39] Commissioner Meyer: SO MY FIRST ONE -- I WAS GOING TO SAY THAT I PROPOSE TO REMOVE THE GUIDELINE THAT THE USE OF BRICK, CONCRETE, GLASS, STONE MASONRY IS INCLUDED IN ALL BLIC REALM.PRESENTATIONS IN THE STAFF REPLIED TO ME AND SAID THAT AN ALTERNATIVE THAT THEY WOULD BE HAPPY WITH, THAT I WOULD BE HAPPY WITH AS WELL IS TO SUBSTITUTE THAT GUIDELINE FOR THE USE OF MORE DURABLE MATERIALS IS ENCOURAGED WHERE PRACTICAL AND ALL EXPOSURES. [41:19] Commissioner Meyer: THAT SPECIFIC LIST AND JUST SAYS MORE DURABLE MATERIALS. AND THAT IS IMPORTANT TO ME BECAUSE WHILE I DON'T WANT TO GO DOWN THE FULL ROUTE OF TAKING ACTION THAT IS WOULD PROHIBIT OR MAKE DIFFICULT OR BREAK OTHER MATERIALS, I'D LIKE US TO STOP ACTIVELY ENCOURAGING THEM. [41:39] Commissioner Meyer: TAKING THAT OUT OF THE LIST, SAYING MORE DURABLE MATERIALS WORKS FOR ME. SO IF NO OTHER COMMISSIONERS HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT, I'D SUGGEST STAFF INCLUDE THAT REVISION. WE WOULDN'T NEED TO MAKE AN AMENDMENT ON. [41:57] Commissioner Meyer: MADEL, CAN YOU BRING UP THE CHART THAT SHOWS THE CARBON TENSITY BYOW OFTEN YOU HAVE TO . IT SHOWS THE BOTTOM. [42:15] Commissioner Meyer: WHEN WE TAKE THE FULL PICTURE OF -- THE INITIAL INSTALLATION AND HOW OFTEN YOU HAVE TO REPLACE IT, WOOD IS -- WOOD SCORES REALLY HIGH ON THAT I WANT TO TAKE AN EXTRA LOOK AT WOOD IN PARTICULAR. [42:35] Commissioner Meyer: I'M NOTECESSARILY FULLY XH COMMITTED TO PUTTING THIS AMENDMENT FORWARD, BUT I WANTED MORE DISCUSSION ABOUT IT TO ALLOW WOOD AT THE BASE OR PODIUM. IF STAFF WERE REALLY OPPOSE TODAY THAT, I'D LIKE TO SEE MORE IN THE SAME WAY YOU SHARED THE STUDY ON EVES. [42:59] Commissioner Meyer: I'D LIKE TO SEE MORE REASONING BEHIND WHY YOU THINK WOOD SHOULD BE DISCOURAGED AT THE BASE OF PODIUM. THOUGHT IS EVEN IF IT HAS TO BE REPLACED FAIRLY OFTEN, IT IS SO LOW ON CARBON INTENSITY, THAT EVEN IF YOU PLACE IT SEVERAL TIMES, IT IS BENEFICIAL. [43:21] Commissioner Meyer: I HEAR THE TWHUSHTH SOMETHING DISRUPTIVE TO PEOPLE LIVING IN THE BUILDING THAT THEY HAVE TO HAVE IT REPLACED, BUT I WANTED TO HIGHLIGHT THAT ONE AND LOOK FOR THAT. [43:41] Commissioner Meyer: THIS IS WRE I BROUGHTP THE SUSTAINABILITY GUIDELINE. SO I WOULD REALLY LIKE TO EMPOWER APPLICANTS WHO ARE REALLY GOING THE EXTRA LENGTH TO BE CARBON -- CLIMATE FRIEND LY. [44:07] Commissioner Meyer: COMPANIES THAT ARE MEETING CERTAIN CONDITIONS, I WANT THEM TO HAVE THE ABILITY TO SEEK ALTERNATIVE COMPLIANCE AND USE DIFFERENT MATERIALS. I WAS GOING TO PROPOSE TO TIE THIS TO -- I'D LIKE TO PROPOSE WE GIVE A DENSITY BONUS. [44:31] Commissioner Meyer: IF THEY MEET THAT STANDARD THEN I WOULD PROPOSE THEY COULD ALSO BE GRANTED THE ABILITY TO USE OTHER MATERIALS IF THEY CAN DEMONSTRATE THOSE OTHER MATERIALS ARE LOW CARBON MATERIALS. [44:50] Commissioner Meyer: AND LAST AMENDMENT AND THE ONE I FEEL STRONGEST ABOUT, THE 2040 PLAN HAS AN ACTION STEP THAT -- THE POLICY FIVE ACTION STEP STATES THAT REQUIRE APPEARANCE AND MATERIALS OF THE REAR AND SIDE WALLS OF NEW BUILDINGS ARE SIMILAR TO AND COMPATIBLE WITH THE FRONT OF THE BUILDING. [45:17] Commissioner Meyer: THAT IS IN THE 2040 PLAN. I WOULDN'T PROPE TO CHANGE THAT WITHOUT AN AMENDMENT, EVENING THOUGH I DON'T SUPPORT THAT. I PROPOSE CHANGING IT IN THE 2050 PLAN. BUT WHAT THE GUIDELINES BEFORE US TODAY INCLUDE IS AN EXPANSION ON WHAT THE 2040 PLAN ACTUALLY SAYS. [45:44] Commissioner Meyer: THE 2040 , SO THE FIRST PART OF THE GUIDELINE SHALL BE SIMILAR TO THE FRONT OF THE BUILDING. THAT IS ALMOST EXACTLY WHAT THE 2040 PLAN SAYS. THEN THE SECOND PART OF THE GUIDELINE SAYS, GENERALLY, THE PRIMARY EXTERIOR MATERIALS INCORPORATED ON THE FRONT OF THE BIDDING MUST BE INCORPORATED ON THE SIDES. [46:05] Commissioner Meyer: THAT IS AN INTERPRETATION, AN EXPANSION OF THE 2040 PLAN. SO I WOULD PROPOSE TO DELETE THAT BECAUSE I FEEL IT COULD HAVE REALLY SIGNIFICANT CONSEQUENCES, INCREASING THE EXPENSE OF BUILDINGS IF AN APPLY CAPTAIN CHOOSESES TO GO FOR MORE EXPENSIVE MATERIALS ONACH SIDE AND COULD HAVE THE UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCE OF THAT AN APPLICANT WHO WANTS TO REALLY INVEST IN THE FRONT FACADE WOULD BE THEN FORCED TO DO ALL OR NOTHING TO MAKE THAT SIMILAR INVESTMENT ON ALL SIDES AND I JUST DON'T THINK THAT'S NECESSARY WHEN [46:51] Commissioner Meyer: SOMETHING IS FACING AN ALLEY OR SOMETHING. WHEN WEIGHING THE DIFFERENT GOALS WE ARE TRYING TO MEET, I THINK THAT ONE PUTS TOO HVY OF AN EMPHASIS ON AESTHETICS AND NOT AFFORDABILITY. [47:06] Commissioner Meyer: I WOULD BE OPEN TO SOMEWHAT OF A COMPROMISE TO MAYBE MAKE THAT GUIDELINE APPLICABLE TO SAY, BUILDINGS THAT ARE OVER SIX STORIES WHERE THE ENTIRE PART OF THAT IS GOING TO BE PRETTY VISIBLE TO THE PUBLIC. [47:27] Commissioner Meyer: BUT IF THE GUIDELINE REMAIN THERE IS AS IS, AND APPLIES TO SMALLER BUILDINGS NEAR THE STREET, LIKE WHERE THE VISUAL IMPACT NOT GOING TO BE VERY HIGH, THEN THAT WOULD MAKE ME NOT VOTE FOR THE OVERALL PACKAGE. [47:43] Commissioner Meyer: THOSE ARE MY FOUR PROPOSALS. THANK YOU FOR LETTING ME GO ON ABOUT THEM AT SOME LENGTH. THANK YOU. [47:50] Emily Koski: >> OKAY. I DID HEAR SOME CONVERSATION. I WAS INTERESTED IN RECEIVING MORE TESTIMONY ON THIS OR CONTINUING THIS ITEM AND I WOULD SAY I WOULD ENTERTAIN A MOTION TO SET AN ADDITIONAL PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD. [48:07] Emily Koski: AND I SEE COMSSIOR ALPER -- [48:09] Commissioner Alper: >> YES. THANK YOU. I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION TO CONTINUE THIS ITEM TO OUR NEXT PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, WHICH I BELIEVE IS OCTOBER 16 AND ALSO TO REOPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING ON OCTOBER 16. [48:36] Commissioner Meyer: >> SECOND. [48:38] Clerk: >> CHAIR KOSKI, IF I MAY. THE PUBLIC HEARING HAS BEEN HELD ON THIS ITEM AS REQUIRED BY STATUTE. THAT PUBLIC HEARING HAS BEEN OPENED AND CLOSED. THE PUBLIC HEARING NOTIFICATION PERIOD FOR THE OCTOBER 16 MEETING HAS PASSED. [48:56] Clerk: SO IN LIEU OF HAVING A FORMAL PUBLIC HEARING, WE COULD HAVE A PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD AT THAT HEARING, WHICH ONLY REQUIRES A THREE-DAY NOTIFICATION VERSUS 21-DAY NOTIFICATION FOR A FORMAL PUBLIC HEARING, IF THAT IS ACHIEVING THE SAM GOAL. [49:15] Commissioner Alper: >> IS THAT ACHIEVING THE SAME GOAL? [49:17] Emily Koski: >> YES. [49:18] Commissioner Alper: >> CHANGE THE MOTION TO PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD. [49:33] Emily Koski: >> ALL RIGHT, THAT HAS BEEN MOVED AND SECONDED? ANY DISCUSSION. [49:37] Commissioner: >> COMMISSIONER MEYER, DID YOU MAKE A MOTION OR ARE YOU JUST SHARING TO PUT ON PUBLIC RECORD FOR THE PURPOSES OF THE MEETING. [49:46] Commissioner Meyer: >> SHARING FOR FEEDBACK. IT IS ALREADY IN PUBLIC RECORD WHAT I'M THINKING ABOUT. I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY PEOPLE READ THROUGH THESE DOCUMENTS. I WANTED TO SAY IT TO EVERYONE. [49:48] Emily Koski: >> ALL RIGHT. I DON'T SEE ANY OTHER DISCUSSION BEFORE THE CLERK CALLS THE ROLL. I'LL ASK THE CLERK TO CALL THE ROLL. [50:04] Clerk: >> COMMISSIONER ALPER. [50:05] Commissioner Alper: >> AYE. [50:06] Clerk: >> CAMPBELL. [50:07] Commissioner Campbell: >> AYE. [50:08] Clerk: >> CONLEY. [50:09] Commissioner Conley: >> AYE. [50:10] Clerk: >> EMERICK. [50:11] Commissioner Emerick: >> AYE. [50:12] Clerk: >> FORD. [50:13] Commissioner Ford: >> AYE. [50:14] Clerk: >> MEYER. [50:15] Commissioner Meyer: >> AYE. [50:16] Clerk: >> KOSKI. [50:17] Emily Koski: >> AYE. [50:18] Clerk: >> WE HAVE SEVEN YEAS, ZERO NAYS. [50:20] Emily Koski: >> THAT MOTION PASSES AND THIS ITEM WILL CONTINUE TO OUR 10/16 MEETING. [50:28] Emily Koski: THAT CONCLUDES ALL OF OUR ITEMS TODAY. ARE THERE ANY ANNOUNCEMENTS FROM STAFF? [50:33] City Staff: >> YES, ONE UPDATE ON SOME BUSINESS THAT WAS BEFORE THE COMMISSION A FEW CYCLES AGO, BACK IN JULY. WE HAD AN APPLICATION FOR THE PROPERTY AT 2648 MARSHALL STREET NORTHEAST, WHICH WAS FOR A CLUSTER DEVELOPMENT THAT INCLUDED VARIANCES TO ALLOW DEVELOPMENT NEAR A STEEP SLOPE AND BLUFF IN THE MISSISSIPPI RIVER CRITICAL AREA OVERLAY DISTRICT. [50:55] City Staff: THE PLANNING COMMISSION DENIED THE VARIANCE TO ALLOW DEVELOPMENT WITHIN 40 FEET OF THE TOP OF A STEEP SLOPE AND THE VARIANCE TO ALLOW STRUCTURE PLACEMENTS NEAR THE BLUFF IN THE CRITICAL AREA. THE PROPERTY OWNER AN APPLICANT APPEARED IN DENIAL OF THOSE TWO VARIANCES. [51:12] City Staff: THOSE APPEALS WERE CONSIDERED BY THE BIZ COMMITTEE OF THE CITY COUNCIL LAST WEEK THE BIZ COMMITTEE OVERTURNED THE PLANNING COMMISSION'S ACTION ON THAT ESSENTIALLY APPROVING THE VARIANCES AS REQUESTED BY THE APPLICANT. AND THAT WL BE CONSIDERED BY THE FULL COUNCIL THIS FRIDAY. [51:31] City Staff: AND NO FURTHER UPDATES. [51:33] Emily Koski: >> THANK YOU. ANY OTHER ANNOUNCEMENTS FOR THE COMMISSION? ALL RIGHT. WITH THAT, WE HAVE COMPLETED ALL ITEMS ON THE AGENDA FOR THIS MEETING. I WILL -- WITHOUT OBJECTION, I WILL DECLARE THIS MEETING ADJOURNED AND OUR NEXT REGULAR MEETING IS MONDAY, OCTOBER 16. [51:54] Emily Koski: AND THE NEXT PLANNING COMMISSION COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE MEETING WILL BE THIS THURSDAY, OCTOBER 5. THANK YOU, EVERYONE. [GAVEL]