This transcript appears to be from a **Lake Elmo Parks Commission** meeting. Based on the dialogue, the primary staff representative is **Adam Swanepoel** (Public Works Assistant Director). The meeting is led by a **Chairperson** (addressed as **Hank** by the public speaker). Other active board members identified by name in the dialogue include **Pat**, **Tammy**, and **Ellen**. [00:00] **Chairperson (Hank):** care for it here welcome everybody to the City of Lake Elmo Parks Commission for the 17th St Patrick's Day of March March call it to order first thing is the Pledge of Allegiance [00:12] **Commissioners/Staff:** I pledge aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to theic for which it stands nation under God indivisible with liy and justice for all [00:25] **Chairperson (Hank):** all right all right we have in front of you the agenda does anybody wish to make a change to the agenda hearing none all in favor of approving the agenda as written say I [00:36] **Commissioners:** I [00:37] **Chairperson (Hank):** opposed all right all in favor next is approval of minutes now it's unusual we have two minutes here we'll take them one at the time starting with the January 22nd are there any changes or comments to the minutes from January 22nd hearing none all that are in favor of approving the minutes from January 22nd 2025 signify by saying I [00:58] **Commissioners:** I I I [01:00] **Chairperson (Hank):** all in favor now we go to February 19th [01:02] **Commissioner Pat:** I have one question for the collective memory the let's see the agenda and the minutes were approved 60 and yet the Motions were approved 5 somebody didn't vote I think there was Mike was gone so the first two then need to be changed [01:17] **Chairperson (Hank):** Mike was gone yeah so those should be 5-0 yes any other comments [01:23] **Commissioner:** I thought somebody laughed didn't you didn't you call the meeting to order yeah that's interesting too who's taking notes [01:31] **Commissioner Pat:** there's another change they can't let you go even though you're trying to move to the side they can't we call that probably a cut in the face [01:39] **Chairperson (Hank):** all right other comments all right all in favor of these minutes with the changes to the voting on the approval of the agenda and the approving of the minutes changes the 5 and the fact that I called the meeting to order um all in favor say I [01:54] **Commissioners:** I [01:55] **Chairperson (Hank):** everybody oh proved it okay next we have public comment and we have Susan done um come up and talk show us your overhead and just remember uh it's we're not really acting on anything here we appreciate you being here um but we'll take this into consideration and in general you have six minutes to talk I will so you have the floor introduce yourself with your address please [02:22] **Susan Dun:** Susan dun 11018 upper 33rd Street North um Lake Elmo Minnesota I had the pleasure of serving on the Parks Commission for like 16 years so I thank you for your service to our city one thing I brought up to our city planner several weeks ago was a a map app that I had gotten from the Washington County Conservation District and I think we have often times have a lot of resources available to us that maybe some of us aren't aware of and thank you very much Sophia for putting that in the in your computer system in my file huh and what you're looking at there and I do have a hard copy for you Hank is everything in pink is called critical habitat in this section of Washington County and you have like Highway 36 and then 94 but as I look at that it really becomes uh concerning because we also already lost what I referred to is The Tartan Park area that's pretty much deforested now and others like the shulan farm and some others that have just kind of slowly degraded and I have a concern we're not only a park commission but we're also environmental stewards and I'd like to maybe just bring that back up to you folks is something to think about as you go through your ways um I I'm old and I kind of walk around Lions Park a lot and I just want to let you know that the pickle ball courts are going to dire need of some help this year for the pickle ball players I'm not a pickle ball player but I do eat pickles one thing that concerned me on our our city council meeting that's coming up is a parking lot in sunfish Lake Park this is used by a lot of the mountain bike Crews and so on and it it does need some assistance but I would like to remind you when the gentleman from Elk River that came proposing Sunfish park being turned into a mountain bike park they offered to help assist any financially and I was wondering if perhaps the city had reached out to them for some Financial contributions for the repaving or putting a hard surface down in that area if that's what they're going to go ahead and do but otherwise I really appreciate your service we've got Arbor Day coming up I'm also a daughter of the American Revolution and we are going to be putting in a tree again at Sunfish Park on their tree track so it's kind of a part of a fun program that they have and we try to put in a tree every year for that but n thank you very good we are a tree City so I'm going to leave this hard copy for you if you would like it's a little easier to see sometimes than the old heads but thank you again [05:14] **Chairperson (Hank):** thank you for for being here do you have any does anyone have any questions [05:18] **Commissioner Pat:** no questions I would like to request for the um minutes I don't know if we always put in the attachment but to add the attachment to the official minutes [05:27] **Chairperson (Hank):** thank you for coming appreciate it you're always welcome all right item number six Inwood e8th Edition Town's Inwood preliminary plat and P all right [05:40] **Adam Swanepoel:** thank you Mr chair the applicant for tonight's application is m& homes the property is currently zoned and guided the city's comprehensive plan as mixed use commercial and high density residential the property is just over 19 Acres The Proposal before you tonight has roughly 272 units between an apartment building and town homes ivywood Park was dedicated with the Inwood development leaving an existing Park credit of 1.16 acres to be applied to the area south of Fifth Street which is the development before you tonight so the part credit yet to be satisfied is 0.77 Acres so here's a visual of The Proposal the uh purple star represents the apartment building the red star is generally where the town homes are going to be located and then I added a green star just off to the side this is where ivywood and stonate park are in relationship to this proposal so park dedication can be satisfied in one of three ways less the ex existing credit that that will be applied here the city May accept fee in Le of land this is going to be about $90,000 this was based off the Washington County GIS assessor uh value for the land the final amount would be established in the final plat with the da the city May accept 10% of the land area which would be 77 Acres again without that existing credit or a combination of both and no trails are proposed that meet the credit criteria so in interviewing the comp plan staff has two findings related to Parks the first that is that the project is not within a park search area the second is that the property is less than one mile from two neighborhood parks stonate Park and ivywood park uh for reference Stonegate Park is 6 acres and ivywood park is about 12 acres uh staff has three findings related to the comp plan for Trails the first is that the property is along a neighborhood Trail search Corridor along Fifth Street a second finding is that there is an existing Trail along the north side of Fifth Street that satisfies the search area and the third finding is that there's a sidewalk along the south side of Fifth Street so there is connectivity just not via Trails So based on those uh findings in the existing credit staff recommends the commission recommend fee in Li of land to the city council for this project and I can stand for any questions we do have the applicant here tonight [08:24] **Chairperson (Hank):** questions from the commissioners [08:27] **Commissioner:** this is maybe a little bit out of the purview of the our topic but uh is there going to be a crosswalk or anything that goes across Fifth Street so people residents can get to the park [08:41] **Adam Swanepoel:** you not at this time but I we are working on a crosswalk policy so I I would anticipate that would come into play here at island and um Fifth Street [08:52] **Chairperson (Hank):** okay other questions [08:54] **Commissioner:** this is a also off to the side a little bit because they talked in here about having some private roads that the city would not maintain correct are you aware of any um housing developments within the city that have Park City Park land within them [09:12] **Adam Swanepoel:** sorry I don't understand question [09:14] **Commissioner:** so are there other housing developments in the city that have private roads that also include City Park land with [09:21] **Adam Swanepoel:** okay so even if there were a larger space here we would not put a park where there are no public roads correct if this if the commission were to recommend um Park land it would probably have to be located off of Island Trail okay so directly off of a city by the apartments [09:41] **Commissioner:** okay thank you [09:42] **Chairperson (Hank):** other questions if there are no questions then this is the time in the meeting when we would um appreciate a motion they have given us a recommended motion doesn't mean you have to follow it but we're looking for a motion [09:56] **Commissioner:** I move to recommend approval of the Inwood 8th Edition towns of Inwood preliminary plat with the acceptance of cash in Lee of Land Based on the findings listed in the staff report [10:07] **Chairperson (Hank):** is there a second [10:09] **Commissioner:** I'll second that [10:10] **Chairperson (Hank):** now we have discussion on the particular motions any comments I'll start it out it looks like the ible thing to do since we already have not one but two parks right there and that um the money would be uh utilized so seems to make sense to me I don't know if anybody else has their opinion [10:32] **Commissioner:** I wonder if the money could be utilized in ivywood park since it was part of that development [10:37] **Chairperson (Hank):** that would be something that we could that's a question yeah we can pose the staff okay of course then again when we get to the budgeting part that's also a good place to make a case for that too is it too late at that time I don't know what I'm wondering that's but I think there's two times we could do it but we should ask right now not now but now any other questions or comments that you'd like to present on the motion hearing none uh we will vote on the motion to recommend the approval of the Inwood 8th Edition towns of Inwood preliminary plot with the acceptance of cash in lie of Land Based on the findings listed in the staff report all in favor say I [11:18] **Commissioners:** I I I [11:21] **Chairperson (Hank):** I oppose say nay even though we did not ask a lot of questions thank you representative for coming in we appreciate it you have the floor Co our next topic um they're bringing in front of the Parks Commission tonight is our Park use policy... Adam? [11:41] **Adam Swanepoel:** Co our next topic um they're bringing in front of the Parks Commission tonight is our Park use policy this is brought up on our uh our work plan for 2025 again the um again from the Parks Commission um we we've seen some issues in the past for uh it's a potential of gaining opportunities for not only funding but also just to reconstruct as we as we begin to update our parks of like what is a reservable park and ways to benefited from that and making it fair to all citizens correct so um Park reservations has been within the city for over 10 years in 2014 the city adopted a park um use policy which was reviewed in 2016 and 2019 with changes to increase Simplicity as well as Park shelters and incorpor a user priority chart over the last few years staff has seen an increase in Park reservations um ultimately due to more Park amenities and updated facilities the policy was discussed in 2024 by The Parks Commission as an addition as additional way to help uh future funding for the parks department um in your packet um I do have some information in there and just kind of the things that we charge currently for our our reservable uh parks that includes ball fields shelters our our Parks um our Lion's uh Park shelter which is our concession stand correct and then our courts as well so you'll see that the fees that we have lined up there um are all refundable um and I think that's what kind of brought up our discussion in 2024 was um you know why don't we keep any of that back you know is there ways of of you know as we we're finding the costs of redoing our pickup ball courts red redoing our basketball courts um you know and just updating our our baseball fields and things like that is like excuse me is like we do have um fees for that but none of it is ever really kept unless something actually happens or something's damaged right so um so those are the fees that we charge for the fields pretty much $50 a day um and those do range based off resident versus non-resident um but then um the one feed that we do keep is in that next paragraph is field lighting so again this is uh 100% geared towards baseball um you know when they do Reserve that it's you know it's $150 for the season so we are getting one club that reserves it for Lions one club that reserves it for VFW so that's where the $300 comes from right so um so keep that in mind as you as we look and we discuss that as like um as we see that our fees for the total year are granted are over $6,000 and lighting fees are $300 isn't you know isn't helping that in any way right so if we are going to you know increase those funds or uh change anything there remember that we got two possibly three major groups that are using those those facilities um and not that we have to get all the money back from that but keep those things in mind as well so um again our reservable Parks um you know would be the VFW the Lions tablin par Park you know that has our courts or sledding hill um that does have lights there as well that we're charged for correct Pebble Park you know we do have a security light there but we do have new updated LED lights there um a lot of that you know that not a huge cost there but um a lot less than what we see at um that are at our ballparks you know when I say less I'm saying that now because LED I don't have those differences of what we used last year in power because we haven't had a full season of that yet so um as well as Reed Park and de manille Park as well so um some of the questions or some of the things as staff as we see that you know just a take in mind to address as we as we discuss this and maybe you know lead staff in a direction of how to write up this policy for this next upcoming year is you know as we do put more shelters and should they all be reservable you know are we just looking at our parks that um our par parks on our list do we just keep it as that or or do we make all those shelters reservable um should all courts be reservable or sites limited only 50% of those reservable space one of the biggest complaints the staff that we get back is from you know with those new updated facilities at Pebble um tablin and here at Lions is like um our clubs are reserving all the space so those early those early mornings um they reserve it and so then there's nothing left open for the public and so we've been asked a number of times could it be possible if one Court was left open or possibly two half of half the courts be left open for just open people coming down um or do we open it up to maybe not having tablin reservable and you know uh Pebble and um lions are reservable just just some options right so um next would be should the deposit be increased for zero Fields courts and shelters again in and keeping those funds right versus you know we we assess those fees but they're all being reimbursed um maybe um several communities around us um there's a flat fee of $100 it's it's about average so you still Water Oak Park Heights Oakdale it's about 100 125 just depend on the size of the shelter and facility that they're using what's all what type of amenities are there open space is another um one that was commonly used by other other cities you know in a larger Park where they had three Open Spaces each one is reservable so um should summer all the deposits be non-refundable um again keeping some of that uh money for future upgrades or um to our amenities that we we are seeing are do cost um money in the long run uh for organizations or clubs uh should anything be different for them when reserving um should deposits be required at a different rate versus you know just a yearly um because one of the things we do find is once that January 15th date opens up um they have a long list and it's they're the first ones in there and again granted there is a priority list and so once they're in there a lot of those are you know people um they're the first ones in there so then it becomes questionable of like going back through that that priority list and you know calling people back and you know making new reservations and things like that so um with that um I'll open it up for discussion some ideas some things for staff to review um my future is to uh put your ideas and suggestions together and bring that back um with a potential motion uh to city council for the 2026 season [18:23] **Chairperson (Hank):** so again tonight we are just putting comments in and as was said we'll he'll bring it back with the comments before it goes to the city council so we're looking for lots of comments tonight it's open for comments somebody has a list right there I know I can see it [18:41] **Commissioner Tammy:** well I started doing some research today um because I didn't get to it on Friday and there must been a big meeting of all the five closest suburbs to us today because none of their Parks people answered the phone or returned my calls so I was left with the websites uh which uh was basically about the picnic shelters like you said and most of them charge more than we do um often times there's a damag deposit so they'll get back a portion the damage deposit M mainly um and they had the same criteria about you know residents non-residents they also mentioned nonprofit groups like in MIDI um nonprofit groups that were based in MIDI and the school district one so they were listed in their priorities also above the um like corporations are out of out of City people um which was another thing to look at uh everybody charged more and I I kind of looked at um similar buildings you know without a kitchen without Refrigeration things like that and I was surprised some of them were like $100 for not very much at all yeah um and then I was trying to find information about the courts and the ballfields there's more information about ballfields um and they they charge for prepping the fields to you guys don't do that do you Adam [20:09] **Adam Swanepoel:** no so we do do uh basic grooming of our Fields but our reservable Fields lions and VFW are are groomed or taken care of by uh the club LMA yeah LMA baseball association [20:25] **Commissioner Tammy:** but but then the other fields because I see people that CCE grooming throughout the summer whether someone reserves it or not so there's a standard [20:34] **Adam Swanepoel:** yeah so our seven other ball fields are groomed by Public Works staff so y [20:39] **Commissioner Tammy:** okay so that's included um so so they have all like $150 a day for for some ball fields and still water in that so um I don't know it there's there's a big price difference between what we charge and what they do um still water does not Reserve pickle ball Courts at all um and other ones I I wasn't able to get back information about it but there seems like there's quite a range between cities nearby us thank you [21:12] **Chairperson (Hank):** other comments [21:14] **Commissioner Pat:** I have a question actually the can you go to the first page of the um policy itself it it would be the other direction oh it's not um so the user priorities when this when it says Priority One City of Lake Elmo is that referring to Residents or actually the city [21:35] **Adam Swanepoel:** that is referring to Residents [21:37] **Commissioner Pat:** okay I would just I would have the comment of adding adding that word okay just because um for clarity um and then I think was looking at the just the title of this as far as the lake ELO Park use policy this is more of a reservation policy I know in the the end there's a um I think it's referred to sportsmanship or something like that I would be in favor of I I could be wrong about this but I don't think we have a standalone code of conduct and I would be in favor of taking this out changing it to code of conduct and of you know at some further time probably revising some of this what it says but I I would think that um our code of conduct it doesn't matter if you're reserving or not we've got a code of conduct for people that use Parks so I again this is probably separate I mean obviously it's separate from the discussion of user fees but just from a language perspective those are two things that I saw um that would be my comment about those items [22:42] **Chairperson (Hank):** so you would be talking about two policies then [22:44] **Commissioner Pat:** yeah I I mean a code of conduct for Parks as a policy posted on our website that says if you're coming to our Parks playing basketball or reserving a ball field it doesn't much Ma matter um I I noticed in here it number one it says in use of Athletics field good sportsmanship rules apply to all players doesn't really Define that so I think that there is opportunity in the future again in a code of conduct to list probably number one is no fighting you know that sort of Fairly standard language but again that's that that would be yes a second policy revised at a later time that's my perspective on it um certainly there could be a sentence in our part reservation policy that says if if that was necessary I don't think it would be necessary but uh to say that the park user um code of conduct applies to all reservations I don't think that's necessary but okay [23:42] **Chairperson (Hank):** other comments [23:43] **Commissioner Tammy:** adding to kind of what Pat was talking about because I looked at some of the sites too and Woodberry and a few others um so a couple other comments where shelters you could reserve for half a day or a full day and of course there was a different charge for half day or full day so that would be one opportunity to kind of I mean it makes it a little more complex but but it also gives a few more options um and then I think this is Woodberry the lights fee was $20 an hour um so versus $20 what for the day or whatever it is or six hours [24:19] **Adam Swanepoel:** yeah so I mean I don't know that's just another option for an hourly fee [24:23] **Commissioner Tammy:** um and then I think I found a field charge I think this is Woodberry where it was it was an hourly fee for the fields um $35 an hour for residents $60 non-residents and then there was a daily fee but that fee also changed whether it was weekday or weekend was more expensive on the weekend so there's again it adds more complexity but there's certainly a lot of options um for different types of fees [24:51] **Commissioner Ellen:** um I don't have any specific questions I guess I just have more um comments and things that maybe the other Parks Commissioners would like to discuss um I guess my what you know I what I want to make sure is that the parks cons continue being used um like I would hate to put any type of punitive thing that would um reduce use of parks and um you know I think we want to make or at least I want to make the parks and the amenities accessible to all residents um particularly residents that already pay taxes and I think that the $6,000 like spread across the entire city is you know we're not talking very much overall so that's kind of um keeping the parks accessible for all residents is kind of my number one priority um the second thing that I was thinking about is that um the lighting fees do seem fairly substantial um but I again just kind of thinking about the equity of charging fees and that um it doesn't make a lot of sense to me to charge to try to offset that utility fee um by charging people reservations proportionate like to that $6,000 at fields that or courts that don't have lights so I guess that's another thing that I'm thinking of I I think it does make sense to try to offset and to recoup some of that utility fee for the um sites that are using utilities um but I guess going along with that is kind of this realization that Lake Elmo baseball seems to be the primary user of a lot of these things and I year ago we accepted a a donation worth thousands of tens of thousands of dollars from them and so just trying to balance the working relationship that we have with um these groups I think is something that I currently see reflected in the user priorities um and I I guess kind of echoing what Tammy said I saw that Woodberry um had different fees based on the priorities and so I would I guess urge us to think about that balance there and then the third thing is um just because this is like the world I'm tapped into a little bit more um for state parks and national parks reservation fees what's like the discussion that's happening with those right now is the fact that reservations are very easy to make and people don't cancel and they don't show up um because it's all like it's so cheap to not show up and to like make multiple reservations um and so I guess I just want to be cognizant of the fact that if we are allowing um groups to reserve these places I guess it feels important to me to make sure that they are being used and I recognize that it's probably not super feasible to uh do any type of enforcement and I don't think that would be like a good use of Public Works staff per se um but just thinking about if there's a way to fold in um something like if you know a spot check or something if folks are out there and they notice that no one is using the reservation then the deposit won't be refunded or something like that just to make sure that we're getting Fields opened up um when they're not being used so those are the three things I was thinking about thanks for letting me ramble here [28:44] **Chairperson (Hank):** I mean I agree I that's up my brain goes back and forth between you don't want to penalize residents for using the par you know but then at the same time there's there's um resources to manage all of this and give the money back and you know that and there's no money being kept but then but then I think the other thing my number a big thing for me is non-residents aren't paying anything either so I mean even if he would charge non you know I mean there's there's certain options but to me a non-residents should for sure have to pay something I mean there should be I mean there is a difference in what they're paying but everybody's getting their money back so yeah that's my comment I would get rid of the refundable just for everyone [29:34] **Commissioner Pat:** for everyone okay it's just going to cost [29:36] **Chairperson (Hank):** okay and whether you give a portion back or whatever but I'd probably phase this in and just say okay it's not refundable and I wouldn't jack up the rates because again to me I didn't even do the comparison the rates look low okay um and I don't know when the last time the rates were adjusted but you know we've been in a period of inflation and even since I think 2016 I ran the numbers and like the 50 bucks would be an extra it'd be 70 bucks just that one number since 2016 so I but I wouldn't double hit him in the first year I would say get rid of the refundable is the primary there the and the lights I would I would up those because again um they're being used we've provided them um yes they don't need to offset everything but I think they should be uh raised um I do like the thing about not reserving every especially the pickle ball um but I would probably go more like 2575 or something like that I don't know to me if there's a court open okay and you didn't Reserve well okay there's something there available and you're going to have the ability to get in there um I mean even if they're there and didn't reserve it they're still there I mean there's nothing you can do about that but I do like the fact that they would keep some of that open to the public just as a bit and back to the policy I'm fine with the potential of separating those but I think I also agree that we should really look harder at those policies you know the sportsmanship and behavior it's 2025 there's nothing about guns there's nothing about camping there's a lot of things and know that might be car uh covered by some other city ordinance but um I would say that's down the road I would not say that in this particular revision we would need to do any of that but that's something definitely that needs to be looked down the road to make sure we have updated and and modernized it and I think that's all of my comments [31:39] **Commissioner Tammy:** to be transparent I have grandkids who are involved in Lake alob baseball but and I know they do a lot for maintaining the fields and you know the two here and re Park and everything and I really I think all of us agree we appreciate everything they do but it seems and I know some of the lights are used probably for volleyball and skating when you're talking about the year round light feat at Lions Park but I I think they could and and I don't know what the percentages of how many the kids are from Lake Elmo the city of Lake uml cuz I know it's the whole school district who can can sign up for it um but but I think it would be okay to raise it not not a whole lot but but something you know to to make it more [32:32] **Chairperson (Hank):** it was a sizable number of kids they came in a few years ago right and it was a sizable number of kids um so that's that's my point about that as far as the pickleball courts um I've talked to a number of people who reserve them and like there was uh one person who reserved on Sunday mornings and she said they use two courts they don't need the whole park but if you were to look on the calendar or look somewhere I they used to have a sign outside the the um the court it would say it was reserved but it didn't say how many courts were reserved so I think it would be really nice to say for for groups to say we need this many courts and I think they should not get all eight courts or six courts or whatever so that the public can come and play [33:15] **Commissioner:** I I just think it's more MH [33:17] **Commissioner Ellen:** other comments um I was thinking about the number of courts that would be reservable in the fact that a lot of tennis courts have moved to pickle ball courts um and I guess coupled with what you were just saying there pet I guess I would be in favor of thinking about um reserving the courts like by the pair um kind of like shelters are for or fields are for um a certain number of hours um a chunk of the day but I think that the fees would need to be adjusted proportionally like I think that $50 a day to reserve two pickle ball courts feels feels like a lot to like I wouldn't make a reservation in that instance personally [34:04] **Commissioner Tammy:** I think most of the people who Reserve do it for the season would you say that Adam [34:08] **Adam Swanepoel:** correct and Al it's every Sunday or it's every Monday Wednesday Friday morning and things like that I don't know that people reserve it just for a few days they just show up [34:19] **Commissioner Tammy:** yeah and especially if you do it a lot you know the highs and lows of the usage of the courts and you figure out for yourself when you need to be there to get yourself a court but [34:31] **Chairperson (Hank):** other comments [34:32] **Commissioner Pat:** well I'll just I'll just state that I'm totally in favor of having that fee not be refundable I I'm don't really see the point of having a fee if it's if it's returned um the in the cost incre I hear Ellen I hear you about the equity I think for me the distinction is you're making a reservation for for exclusive use um anybody can use the park for without a fee without a reservation um so when you're talking about exclusive use I don't have any trouble charging for that I don't have any trouble paying paying for it myself if I if I have the expectation that it's going to be my ball field for the day or or My Shelter I would I would have the expectation personally to to to pay for it um I don't think just thinking of residents i' don't think it's I don't think that's unreasonable to not re receive your feedback I am in favor certainly of a higher non-resident fee so we we do um prioritize residents um and I don't I think the equity a little bit comes in when if we do find a way of leaving some of those Courts open and not reserving the whole thing I know that happened to my family last last year with pickle ball being rented out for a for an event and you know you get there and you go well I guess we're not playing if there was just one open I don't know how you do that so it's easy to easy to manage on the you know the city administrative side if you just say that one is always open like all of them are reserved or Ellen you said pairs whatever is going to make the most sense management wise and to be able to communicate through the sign have you know you don't want to have four different signs i'say four different things [36:26] **Adam Swanepoel:** most courts are numbered within our in our Parks so you know you could always say like one and two are always non- reservable or five and six right [36:34] **Commissioner Pat:** yeah or you know there a different color code on them or whatever it might be in the future so or at a at a minimum that yeah I think that's what you were saying is you could somebody could reserve pairs of them and still make two reservations that doesn't alleviate the concern of not having access for non reserving sorry I'm talking out loud here thinking thinking out loud rather um but I am in favor of keeping keeping a um portion open [37:05] **Commissioner Tammy:** as far as the Tammy the shelters being half day or full day I think I've even seen specific hours rentable that that I would be in favor of or full day half day so again other people can use them um to the point of like your point of people not showing up it's probably unlikely that majority of events for shelters if somebody's having a reunion or something are going to be there all day so to to you know not have others be able to have access to it because they're using it the half day doesn't seem to make a lot of sense so I'd be in favor of that as well [37:44] **Adam Swanepoel:** I think there's some I think there's some balance to be struck here some of our neighboring communities you know th those prices of those shelters are a little bit higher if they have public restroom or if they have restroom restrooms there versus just a portable right so um but you know we do have those offset expenses of our portable toilets at our Parks too [38:05] **Commissioner Tammy:** so I also noticed that several cities had information there about Inflatables and that they would have to have a permit for that and an Certificate of Insurance so that the city's not liable and at least two of the Cities I looked at had something about that [38:23] **Chairperson (Hank):** I think that goes along with my general comments it looks like a lot of this needs to be just updated okay you know maybe in 2016 people wouldn't even thought about putting a jump pit you know next to a thing in a park and now they would so that's kind of that General comment there it's a good comment [38:43] **Adam Swanepoel:** last year pilot Park we had a um an animal um birthday party right right so petting zoo [38:51] **Commissioner Tammy:** yeah petting zoo so you know other things come into play with that as well so unnown to the city oh something else that just reminds me that I read at one of the Cities I don't know if we have anything like this or not but food trucks like is there something around food trucks like because they'd have to have a license like one of the Cities I was looking at to have a food truck come for an event they had to have a specific license or something that [39:18] **Chairperson (Hank):** so again these are all things I think could be could be in the future not necessarily for this revision are there any other comments [39:27] **Commissioner Ellen:** yes yeah Adam I have a question can you speak a little bit more about the user priorities and how that works in practice you mentioned that sometimes it does get confusing where you have to go make some calls um kind of what's the timeline that you look at for that [39:46] **Adam Swanepoel:** so um our clerk normally takes these reservations right so I don't see them at firsthand but for instance a club may send in they send in one reservation for the whole season so they'll say every Monday Wednesday Friday from 6:00 a.m. to 10 I want the pickle ball Courts at Talon right so um so and that's only geared at who puts in the reservation so if Adam puts in the reservation I'm a you know I put my address is Lake Elmo um I'm a resident right so that can be very skewed as well when maybe the the club is in Mamita right and they have they have members from Lake emo that are part of it or they're in stillw water and they have members that are part of it and that club utilizes different communities and different parks to spread their Club around right so but again as a so what our clerk would do was normally she'd go through them as first come first served she puts them through the list she puts them on the calendar our reservations have moved from being posted every day um because that's where we're were finding as staff as we'd go out and post them every morning um for weekends for daily activities but then by then that day it was being changed because it was raining that weekend or whatever it might be right so we've got kind of got rid of that posted a QR code that directs the users right back to the website where they select which Park um and then it'll have the times and dates of who's reserving it right so um so going back down to that um of the that policy of how they're reserved again those are just a a couple instance that we as staff run through in that situation but if somebody were to submit one later in April you know having asking for the same things that clerk would go through this priority and and and decis and a lot of times it's just asking them back and forth like would you be accommod to this group to using the facilities you know from 9: to noon versus you know cuz we you have a book till 10 you know okay cool [41:48] **Commissioner Ellen:** um I guess so I would be in I I feel like one thing that I've heard here and fit what seems to make sense with me too is I feel like I would be in favor of changing these user priorities to more of a user fee schedule with the lowest fee being a resident of City of Lake Elmo and the highest fee um being one of these other groups and maybe this priority or the fee schedule will get shifted Consolidated parsed up different ways I don't know um and then I guess just thinking about that like how do you put a fair uh fee across the board for um you know if you're thinking per court or by season versus by day or by hour blah blah blah blah blah um one thing that struck kind of my eye about what Woodburry does is for camps or teams they charge a per user fee so that's just kind of something that I thought was kind of Novel um it might be a way to I don't know equalize some of those fees [42:51] **Adam Swanepoel:** a good example would be Reed Park last year so we had the lake emo baseball association reserve the ball field but we also had a a frisbee Ultimate Frisbee Club in Lake ELO that also had reserved the open space actually had their application in January 15th prior to Lake ELO baseball putting theirs in more towards the end of January so it does put you in a pickle of both Community programs like you said who's funding who's donated like things like that and really coming down to a clause of like really talking to both groups and see what works what we can make work right [43:29] **Commissioner Tammy:** other comments um maybe I would just consider adding a a paragraph on there or saying something like the reservation is nonbinding like because there is some negotiations that happen it sounds like um and just so so users um are aware that that might happen and you guys are transparent and there's just kind of cover [43:53] **Commissioner Ellen:** and that kind of builds the sense of this is a community that we're working together yeah to use yeah like we're not competing against each other we're trying to get the parks used but in a responsible way [44:06] **Chairperson (Hank):** other comments So Adam what's the timeline on this you think we'll see it again when do you want to see again [44:14] **Adam Swanepoel:** no I would say probably uh probably won't be next month but month after we'd be looking at implementing it like next year right correct that's what I would suggest you know it probably wouldn't hurt if you did it this year I mean a lot of the reservations are completed right now the only thing you would have as you know individuals that might grab a court or um field in the fall I would wait till next year get it all so then you can take your time too and if we're revising this we might then revise the the code of conduct or whatever we're going to look at that but one of the things I asked that for is um is there a problem since you're not doing this in the short short term with Commissioners emailing you singularly additional questions or comments let's say for the next week and well till the end of of March definitely [45:12] **Chairperson (Hank):** okay so you know we had a lot of good discussion here tonight if you ask this is what happens to me I get halfway home and oh I should have asked that or that would have been a good idea so because of the time frame here um if you would email those to Adam and remember don't copy everybody just email him directly if you have any more comments or questions or suggestions or enhancements or any of those I [45:41] **Commissioner Pat:** I I would like to say that it would be really good the summer to have at the pickle ball courts if if like the Monday Wednesday Friday I don't remember the name of that group if they're only going to use Four Courts to have that listed because people drive up and they see people that you know it it will just they think if it's if it's reserved they can't use it even if the courts are empty [46:11] **Commissioner Ellen:** that's a really good point Pat I would be so in favor of putting a QR code in like opening up a little survey for I don't know through that June or something for people that are using these fields to weigh in or something um and feel like at least if things are going to change that people's you know it's more than five people making it well to talk to the clerk to make sure that we just didn't quadri the person's workload yeah yeah okay yeah we made it so complicated so get that input too which I'm sure you will [46:50] **Chairperson (Hank):** okay thank you for asking us though yes obviously a good discussion Communications number eight Adam what are you communicating [47:01] **Adam Swanepoel:** um biggest things over the last uh month here have been our um the buck Throne removal at uh Sunfish had a lot of questions and comments in regards to the future of that Park you know what's um the invasive species that are being removed and the down trees um there um the salaman zeros has had a couple uh meetings with local residents as well so continue to watch their site as well as the city like almost site as far as Communications with um the activities that are going on there um it is a difference if you do walk in there there is a lot a difference but I think you know if the if people do look at the progress that you guys have set forward uh of what your intents are as well as the communities that um there is a plan um and to reach out to salera Center as well as stantech to review that plan and just have a a better uh hindsight of what what the what the project is so I mean that's been our biggest biggest uh questions here in the LA the last month for sure um with that being said some of that work has been limited just with our lack of frost uh the large equipment's been removed from there but they are doing some additional uh Mowing and things like that so some of those trails are closed uh during that time so continue to watch that website as well for um bike trail closures as well as um walking path closures um with the spring uh amongst us so we have a lot of things that will come up our dog park you know the water will be turned back onto that coming up here soon uh as we find that the temperatures stay above our freezing attempt but we've had some questions about that already this year um but otherwise Park cleanup has already started with par with uh Public Works staff I've been through a lot of our Parks just cleaning up the leftover hats and mittens and um sticks and branches and things that are left there too that'll be get ready for our mowing season which isn't probably too far out as well our ice rink is completely out of ice now ready so we will be looking at our pickleball courts we do have our Nets up in ivywood as well as two up already in um at Pebble but as um the weather starts to progress we'll eventually put the rest of those up one of the biggest things that we do get is with these large snowfalls in the spring is that um it does weigh down those and stretch those nuts out in one of our biggest complaints throughout the years it's not at 34 in it's at 33 and a half so um so we are adjusting those uh for those requests um as as we can so um so that's why we only have a partial of those nuts up right now so as we clean those quarts we'll eventually get them all up um and we'll post that up on the website as well as our volleyball nets um those will go up U around the same time so with that um next month I do plan to open us back up to POS possibly doing some Park walkthroughs again um as the weather gets better we can get out there and kind of get get a sight of some of these parks with not so much green foliage on them as well so very good [50:56] **Commissioner Pat:** um question yes uh when will the portable toilets go out [51:00] **Adam Swanepoel:** so a lot of times we uh those are out um by the end of April a lot of times they're uh out there by but with the early spring like this last year as well as this year the priv bu sooner so [51:15] **Commissioner Pat:** okay thank you [51:16] **Chairperson (Hank):** other Communications seeing none uh would somebody like to make a motion to adjourn [51:24] **Commissioner Tammy:** sure I'll make a motion to adjourn [51:26] **Chairperson (Hank):** is there a second [51:28] **Commissioner Ellen:** I'll second [51:29] **Chairperson (Hank):** all in favor I [51:30] **Commissioners:** I [51:31] **Chairperson (Hank):** a none meetings