e e e e e e e e e e 5 6 7 8 9 10 all right it's 7:00 I'll call the uh to board meeting for December 16th 2019 to order uh first item on the agenda is the approval of the agenda Patrick we have a little some supplements I gu yes we've added supplements uh under consent for 5B 5c uh We've also added um 5D of 2020 Li tobacco license renewal and then we've also added uh some additional information for 9g specific to our Electrical uh inspector services that we did an RFP for about 6 weeks ago all right so that supplement covers some questions we had about uh the liquor license yes um we also have some clar or clarification in the language when you get to consent agenda Mr chair all right uh hearing that do I have a motion to approve the agenda with the supplements move to approve the agenda with the the uh supplements I'll second that motion M second on Fair say I hi oppos motion carries item number three is approval for payment of the bills move to approve payment of the Bills second that motion made second all in favor say I I I oppose and item number four I need a motion on the approval of the minutes for December 2nd 2019 I'll move to approve the minutes of the December 2nd 2019 uh agenda minutes with no additions or deletion I guess I'll second that whatever I said you'll second Meg it'll figure it out I mumbled through that but all right motion M second all in favor say I I all right item number five is the consent agenda we have quite a few of them but unless someone has an issue with something Mr chair if I may um with respect specifically to consent item 5 C the 2020 liquor license renewals um I would ask that the board in any resolution that you may pass add the additional language of uh when all requirements of certificate of liability have been met okay okay now that's strictly for liquor license that doesn't apply to the tobacco license uh tobacco and liquor okay because I noticed we did add Cub Foods yes that is in your supplement okay all right hearing that unless there's no other objections I would look for a motion to I will move to approve the consent agenda as amended when all required certificate of liabilities have been met for both the tobacco and liquor licenses did you get that Megan all right have a second on the motion I'll second that motion any further discussion all in favor say I I I I all oppos that motion carries right item number six we have a water grimlin update yes Mr chair uh board if uh just an FYI uh the memo that has been sent to you outlines water gin's legal requirements that are being met through um Department of lab and Industry uh specific to uh safety requirements regarding lead and their employees um they are going through the building permit process to meet that requirement they plan on making a presentation to you the board um specific to that water or to that uh building permit your first meeting in January so this is just an FYI for you this evening that's uh the January what uh was that the 4th I think I think yeah uh six all right January 6th all right anything else on that one nothing further thank you all right moving on item number seven old business we have none so we'll go to item number eight we have a public hearing for the 2020-1 street Improvement project this is a public hearing so I would be looking for a motion to wave the reading noting it's been properly published I'll move based that this properly published of a hearing notice and newspaper and wave the reading of the notice I'll second that motion made second all favor say I I I'll opposed and then I would look for an a motion to open the public hearing I'll move to open the public hearing I'll second that all in favor say I I I I all opposed all right Larry are you going to take this yes uh thank you Mr chair and tell board members um on December 4th we held the neighborhood meeting and I have few copies of the um of that presentation in the back um I'm going to just touch on the the the high points of that meeting and uh it's also in your agenda packet for the board members um we are looking for imp to do improvements to the southeast area phase one which includes the neighborhood between Southshore Boulevard and County Road f um we're looking to do that neighborhoods to the south of of uh that neighborhood Hood in subsequent years um we prepared a feasibility study for the neighborhood including reviewing the soil conditions um the conditions of the the streets as well as took uh questionnaires that we sent out to the public and use that to prepare the um feasibility study the high points that we're recommending um for this project we're recommending a kind of a hybrid Rehabilitation SL reconstruction project uh where we grind up the existing asphalt and base material and reuse that material for the new Street improvements we are looking to um add concrete curb and gutter to the neighborhood specifically we're recommending surmountable curb and gutter which is drive over type curb um for the neighborhood due to the um narrow streets in this neighborhood as as well as uh to minimize some of our soil export costs um we're looking to add storm sewer um extending storm sewer from specific points on um on uh Lakewood and Arbor to better accommodate the drainage for the neighborhood um we are also looking at Street width reductions as well as increasing in the street width we're recommending the street width for Lakewood um Homewood and Arbor Drive Drive be increased from the 24 25 ft width to a 28 ft width to better accommodate uh emergency vehicle access when when vehicles are parked on both sides of the road those those roadways are are more of the main um roadways in and out of that neighborhood for Ralph's Street which is uh the only dead end in this neighborhood we're recommending a reduction from 30 ft to 28 ft um we did hear some feedback at the neighborhood meeting from from an individual that they weren't in favor of that reduction um the other streets in the neighborhood are left to the left at the same width due to um RightWay um limited RightWay or short uh shorter driveways um we're looking at some geometric changes we're trying to um engineer this uh these roadways to um meet current standards squaring up intersections at the county roadways um um meeting uh 30 mph design guidelines for engineering the roadway um we're also as well as a storm Su we're also looking at a rain Garden program for those that might be interested in a rain Garden in their yard um rain Gardens are are basically a depression off the curb we put a curb opening in um along the street and direct drainage to the Rain Garden um it's planted with specific plants that can handle the the storm water and so if uh people are interested in in that type of amenity it does require some maintenance but um it's some once it's established it's the maintenance is pretty pretty standard of of any type of uh V uh landscaped area um again it's a voluntary program for those that might be interested I do have a signup sheet here for them those that might be interested and we can evaluate whether your property is a good candidate um this is in combination with or partnership with uh Rice Creek Watershed District as well as Ramsey County and so there's a funding aspect from them and they'd be looking at properties that are um not on the top of the hill more on the way down the hill um or down the slope of a roadway or um it wouldn't probably work for properties that are very steep coming to the road but um in certain cases uh it's a it might be a good amenity for both the property owner that might have a a green thumb or a and helping with the storm water drainage for the area um moving on to project costs we are estimating just over $3 million for this project um we kind of because we don't know haven't designed it yet we kind of tended to to shade on the higher side for both our quantities and our um unit pricing just because we haven't bid the project yet and we haven't designed it um so hopefully the costs when we get bids would be less than that of that $3 million 2 um or $500,000 is paid by other funds um like the the water fund for valve and water hydrant replacement um sanitary fund for um any um castings that need to be adjusted and then a lot of it comes out of the a lot of that half million comes from the the stormw water fund which extends the sewer or extends a storm sewer for the area um the remaining $2.5 million is divided between uh both assessments and the um the Town Township uh component and so we are uh recommending an assessment rate of $111,000 per per unit this would be an a unit assessment we're proposing a unit assessment where every property is assessed the same amount one unit whether they live on a corner lot or not um Corner Lots on the county road however are only assessed to half a unit because they have Frontage along the county road and the assessment policy states that um Corner lots are assessed one half for each um side that is improved so if only one side is being improved it's a half a unit but all other properties on this on this uh neighborhood are assessed um the one unit the $11,000 is uh recommended because we believe the benefit for this project per property equates to that $111,000 figure um if this project moves forward we're recommending a 10-year assessment period for that $11,000 so it's um divided over those 10 years at a interest rate that's undetermined yet but um last year's rate for the 2019 Street project was 3.5% um the schedule moving forward on the schedule tonight is the public hearing where um we take input from the public on the project itself as well as uh uh feedback on specific elements um after that when the plans are completed or mostly completed we would have another me meeting with uh um the neighborhood to show the plans and how the the project affects the specific each specific property we will have um cross-sections to show how the slope of your driveway will work after the project um and driveway as well um which is which is important for for you to see how the project is going to affect um affect you um after that that we would put the project out for bid and sometime in March receive bids to present to the board we'll have a better idea on the cost and we'll have a better cost breakdown at at that time and the board can consider those bids for award and then spring construction um later on in the process uh we would have a assessment hearing where um when the final costs are tallied we will have a um the either the same r or a different rate for the assessment at that time and there's an open public hearing for that as well so those are kind of the high points for this project um at this point uh it'd be appropriate to take public testimony and I could answer either questions from the board now or questions from the uh individuals that um approach and offer testimony Scott anything I think I've asked a lot of questions of them already so I'm good Steve I would agree with that we've had lots of discussions on this topic already the only thing I'd want to know there is is how well you're staying um informed with Ramsey County on this because of the obviously the county road we're buting up to so now I have you heard yet what they're are they getting closer to a timeline on their portion of it or not well there's two things there we're we're abing County Road f um and we're abing uh sou Shore Boulevard um and talking with with uh um Ramsey County they do they do not have a timetable yet for any improvements on sou Shore Boulevard um and in fact they don't they are resurrecting that discussion very soon but they don't have any answers for us on that project yet on County Road F uh they are we heard at one point that they might be doing improvements next year at the same the same time we're doing our project but now I've learned that they have uh they are not doing that project next year and it' be a future year it's the lak Lings Trail kind of dictating what they do there or they waiting for that um I think they're going to reopen kind of the the whole Concepts all the concepts so all right any other questions Larry well the the fact that that we're doing these improvements now whenever they do make their improvements they would have to adjust to what we've already done right okay all right hearing other questions I would look for a motion to open up for public comment I'll move to opening the Public Public comment portion I'll second that motion made in second all in favor say I I I all right anyone who would like to speak to this if you please come to the podium state your name your address and then we'll uh we'll do do the best we can to answer your problems good evening Mr chairman members of the board my name is Dennis Welsh I live at 2644 Arbor Drive all right come with a um maybe an unusual comment yes we really want this our our neighborhood or our portion of the neighborhood um has seen some pretty rough roads and uh one of my neighbors uh told me this afternoon that he almost lost a white dog in one of the holes so uh but it's it's time and we thank you for considering this site and uh for um making it your first um renovation project in many years as I understand it um I also wanted to take just a moment to thank you for going through the road Improvement program that you did this past year that was really informative and it helped me understand just how bad our roads were um by comparison to some of the others and I'm hoping that those benefits will be passed on to succeeding neighborhoods because because of now you've got the information um one thing I would like to ask that um and I've been through a number of these types of programs before um that staff and Larry really concentrate from our perspective on Communications it's so important to know when something is coming um along in terms of when the start and stop of the construction is when the mailboxes are moved if they are moved uh when the driveways will be cut off when they won't so if there could be something created on the on the township website or or uh use one of the other email uh Services it' be wonderful to get um more rather than uh um have to guess about it um and finally uh I I am concerned about storm water and I do want to be part of your um green a rain rain Garden concept um I will want to know more about it Larry and uh particularly about we're on a hill so how much of the salt I don't really want all the salt thank you well just in response the township has been working on this for a couple years now and we've been kind of kicking it down the road and it's just come to a point where we have to address this and some sticker shock for all of us but we just we can't put this off any longer it's we're way past du and when it comes to um rain Gardens I know balam is part of Wier Township and so is Rice Creek Watershed they do a lot of cost sharing which means they go out for Grants and depending on what it is it could be a 25% 50% cost share so it is it is an advantage for somebody who's looking to do ring Gardens to at least pursue that Avenue but we appreciate it thank you anyone else I'd like to make a general comment on communication you know that that has been one of our our key things and the projects we did in 2019 I I I think the residents in general would say that the communication process was very very good um we do put it on our our website and we do want to keep the public informed and I think they went over overboard to make sure everybody was uh kept current as where the projects were going so I think that's a key item I agree with you so all right anyone else um name is fer 2688 Arbor Drive in the township um I too want to thank the board for going forward with this project it's been a long time coming and uh should be really nice when it's when it's done I just had a couple of questions from our last meeting um some things were brought up that I just didn't have a chance to digest and I was looking at the one is is on the widening of the roads um four of the eight roads that are proposed to be improved were going to be widened from uh 25 to 28 feet um and I think Larry you mentioned that because of that there were some concerns about grading if we go wider it's going to cause some problems on grading if you will I'm thinking mostly of Arbor Drive which is the main road running through there I I I question whether it's necessary and maybe you can help me with this to widen the roads um and the reason being is that I know you said it was for the emergency vehicles um I've lived there for 38 years um most of the people that live on that street have a driveway we're parking where most of the vehicles are parked um the only time that vehicles are parked on the street or maybe for somebody that's visiting for a short period of time or a service vehicle to drop off mail or what have you very seldom have I seen you know 30 cars parked on the street at night there's partly no cars there so I don't see that as a real threat for an emergency vehicle coming through there I I still think they can and I think the downside might be that it's going to cost more because we have we're adding three feet of materials and labor if you will on that whole stretch plus there's going to be more excavation and and and whatever else so unless there's reasons that I'm not aware of as it relates to the storm drainage um I wonder if we can relook at that and and determine if it's really necessary if our only reason is emergency vehicles um and I don't think we've ever had a complaint from any of our emergency people if you will to that extent uh I guess I'd like to look at that that might drive down our cost a little bit Larry have you discussed that with um Dale Reed Public Works director or not um well he's been part of the process is it also something to do with the snow removal or U for just for plowing in general or not the main factors were was that access okay and parking the one of the um the questionnaires there was a lot of concerns about parking in the neighborhood and so it would would allow for a larger a larger roadway for parking well the widening of that road I mean it's we haven't cast that in stone yet have we it's still for consideration so yes um it you know we haven't um looked at everything we we it may not even be possible but um we would like to tonight to to kind of know what the consensus is about um moving forward with a a street with so we can um deter determine if we're moving forward with the the 28 ft or um or if we're going to keep it the way it is yeah cuz we don't want to redo the engineering cost on on the street I mean as stated a few minutes ago Arbor is the main the main road through there so well it isn't it isn't we bordered by County Road F and North Drive but in in the area that we're talking about that is somewhat of the main all the other ones kind of feed off of of Arbor or County Road or County Road F or yes or Southshore Boulevard I got you that way um and so for to go with what you're saying you know the we do want to have as much room for parking and Public Safety as possible so I'm not saying we're 100% committed to it but right consideration well another issue was that we wanted to maintain I think a 30 mph roadway through there which I don't think is possible um simply because even the township put up a stop sign halfway onto Arbor Drive a year or so ago to slow the traffic down one of the residents because they have children didn't want cars speeding through there and because we have several turns on that road very difficult to get up to 30 mil an hour so I don't think that's a reasoning for Whiting them either and as again I've lived there for 38 years and I've never noticed a parking problem um I guess I'd have to ask the audience if they recognize that is a a parking problem some some of the problem it's also if there's no sidewalks there correct true so in in the world we are in today more people want to have access along the roadways for walking and things so you you run you start restricting you start getting yourself in a box on providing uh avenues for public to use also and those are again those roads all go down to Southshore Boulevard so if there are people that want to use that for Walking The Wider gives them a little more safety also so well I guess you could always argue that point but as I point out we've not had a problem in all the years I've lived here so but anyway I I I I guess I would like to have you consider that if if the board just definitely wants to enlarge them then I guess that's that's the way we'll go well L that'll come up during the feasibility report knowing some maybe it's not even a possibility or during the design process um yes I we would like to to go away from here knowing which which way we should approach it it's it it it's from uh is it necessary um like Mr fiser says it's been that way for forever but um but we just saw some benefits for that those main arteries for for those parking access and pedestrian so sure well again as you point out there's a lot of the Yards come right down it very steeply so there's going to have to be some a lot of grading to to to bring that up so either way that the neighbors will all be kept in the loop as we proceed Fe along with this so sure okay that'd be fine um other question I had then was well I'm not did you I'm sorry did you finish with that or as far as going forward yeah okay the other one I had just a clarification um we're looking at a 3 million plus project the street improvements alone are about 2.4 million which is just for the you know the the the the actual construction and we've got indirect cost here about 610,000 of which it looks that's engineering and City Administration how does that break down in other words that seems like a lot of money for engineering $600,000 for the street um granted we have sewer and water and so forth and then we have City Administration so how does that break down I mean how much of this is engineering it seems I mean that's 25% of the whole cost of the project is that reasonable I don't know yeah it's it's it's typically an industry standard the 25% and um it's between 18 and 20% is engineering and then inspection we have a person out there during um construction to make sure things are being built properly okay um the rest is is for bonding costs um and uh admin Administration costs okay so between uh 5 and 7% is that amount for the bonding [Music] okay the board is satisfied with that then well we're getting pretty familiar with that number keep every time we do one of these projects that's where they always fall so they maybe our Engineers just charge too much I don't know well I don't know as an aside you know the inspections while while these projects are going on is so critically important because we've found in the past some of the when they've taken some samples of past project way in the past some of there's been discrepancies in in how much they've um ask are binus on there right where if you don't watch it you can get taken advantage of and so it's important to have that piece covered so oh I agree I agree but uh the overall the overall cost this is a very expensive project and so it's just a question of if if if that's what it is that's what it is but I just bring it up because I noticed it was a large part of the whole project yeah and I I will say we just use a percentage now construction costs have outpaced engineering costs so I would say that's that number is high as well okay okay very good um I also brought this up last time regarding the bidding of the project and I said how many bids are we going to get from contractors and I think the statement was well at least one and I guess um I recognize bidding periods are difficult especially in the spring as to when people are bidding but I would I would propose that we we at least have three bids and the reason I say that is because one bid doesn't give you you know it's a competitive nature out there you know unless we have a contractor that we've worked with you know before and we trust him to give us a fair price I think we should bid it one bid isn't enough obviously two bids isn't really enough either because you've got a high and a low and the spread doesn't doesn't really tell you where you are if you have three then you've got usually two that are relatively close together and one is an outlier going one way or the other so I would I would highly recommend that we have at least three bids now you may say well we go out for bids and we only get one well a lot of it's the board's prerogative to just to reject that and then we start all over and go back out for bids again too if we only get one and if it's if it's out of our range we just we reject it yeah what if it is within your range we we've had as many as 10 people or 10 companies bid on certain things and then again we have we struggle getting anybody bidding on it if if the Market's really good and people are really busy then all of a sudden the numbers keep coming in a little bit higher too because they are busy I'm Mr chair I'm pretty confident that we'll get at least three last year we bid our first phase project right in the middle of the construction season it was in the summer and we got two um the plan is for this year is to start more late winter early spring okay and I and I'm like I said I'm pretty confident we'll get three or more and that's why we try to keep on schedule to get this thing out early before before the heart of the season shows up yeah yeah yeah well good I I I you know I've been in architecture and bidding projects and I just know that it's just more advantageous to get more of it is is better than fewer um and then the only other thing I have and I'll I'll let everybody go is just on the clarification of the funding for the project we're having assessments of $111,000 per unit which is 144 units which is the 1 million one .25 million of the um assessments the other funds are covered through Township funds bonding which is a m 1.26 water fund 35.9 sanitary fund 104 storm fund $489 that gets us to that $3 million number the reality is we're paying more than the 11,000 and I just want that to because in reality we as residents pay for the water fund the sewer fund and these other funds as well so looking at that we're we're looking you should really be dividing the 3 million by 11 114 units meaning that the actual cost to us is somewhere around 26 $27,000 per unit now maybe I'm misunderstanding something here but the funds that you're drawing from are funds that were taxed to us as part of our few but all the res right all all the residents are paying into those funds that's true that's true so it becomes a much less per unit cost except for if you continue the next year you do another road and then another road eventually eventually everybody's paying in the number will eventually hit the 267 well but eventually too this is a major project where the roads are fully total reconstruct where a lot of them now in the next rounds are only going to be U Mill and overlay so that that changes the price okay yeah so it sounds like you're wanting to hear more what's the full cost yeah and I'm I'm not trying to undercut your your right I just want to because a lot of people and I'm not one of them but a lot of people are very concerned about the overall cost of this thing and there's a lot of people that are on fixed incomes I think we were very concerned as well you know and um so I just like to be upfront with the cost so that they know what we're paying for that's all so I again I don't want to cause you a problem here but I think it is an issue that probably should be addressed at some point in time and maybe it can be in the next meeting so if I'm hearing you right though um it's more um what what the fully loaded cost would be uh not just what you're writing a check for but really all the incidental pieces and not to belabor that but I think it's important to know you talked about this causing appreciation for our properties on $1,000 well in reality it's more than that so um I guess you could say that for all the residents of the township because absolutely what or or in the county because if a county does a project all the residents pay for it all the residents of the county you may not get a statement for it but you're going to see It ultimately in in the county portion of your tax bill that's true but I'm talking about the township right okay okay um the other part was Larry last year this past year we had our estimat is to the uh Road Improvement project and we came in above below right at yes uh we were um learning from that experience we were uh it was 10% higher than our engineer estimate okay so so there was a lot of projects after that that were 30% % higher than Engineers estimates across the Metro for for projects so that's part of what why we're using those higher numbers because uh the the market right now is is just uh a lot of projects so um hopefully we bid this early enough we get a better price okay all right thank you all right thank you all right anyone else I'm 100% behind this project also I'm sorry name and address oh Phil Carpenter Arbor Drive I'm right on the county uh County Road F in Arbor Drive 2697 okay and I'm 100% behind it you already answered one of my questions about Cony roadel because I always when I talk go to the ran County things they were going to build that road and I thought we're going to all work together so I only have one mass now I'm going have one now and then another okay but anyway well every time we ask we always get a window of like 5 years okay the second one is you got to help me out because my wife and I know people in North St Paul that have just had curbs and Roads put in and North St Paul roads put in I don't have a trouble with 11 but my wife wants me to ask this they're all talking about 5 to 6,000 and I know my sister lives in the township and a few years ago you did their Road it's on uh west side of Goose Lake you know out that area and she said she thought she only paid around five so my wife wants to know why are we paying 11 when North St Paul and these others are seem to be paying a lot less that would be a hard question for Apples to Apples we would I would have no idea what kind of projects they're doing well there it's it's the the concrete curbs in the ashalt pretty much looks pretty much the same but it depends if if it was there to start with if it's total reconstruction if they're recycling if they're uh adding storm and there's so many and then there's the policy part of that where they might have certain policies of assessing um more more percentage the part of the problem is the township doesn't get any LGA State funding or a lot of communities like North St Paul City White Bear they get anywhere from half a million to a million and a half to throw into their funds for projects just something like this we don't have that we get what $17 got C 14 14 that's it well anyway well trust me we're working on that Mr chair yes thank you Mr CH it's great to be here Mr Carpenter you have another tell your wife that there is another hearing uh and that's called the assessment hearing where the amount of the assessment has to equal more benefit to the property in the amount of $1,000 so this uh this board has been very good at listening but you'll have an opportunity the the purpose of this hearing is what we call feasible necessary and what are the costs and a reasonable amount of the assessments so at the next hearing come to it and if you have if you if you believe your property hasn't been improved to the amount of $11,000 that's a question that will become before the well I personally am 100% behind this by way it it you know it's just I gotta answer the you know the No I'm trying to help you but she's watching TV you can say I'm trying to help you there so okay well thanks yeah and different cities have different rates and different types so good evening my name is Michael F I'm at 2661 Arbor Drive and I think like the rest of our neighbors uh this sounds like a great project uh to update the neighborhood um I would Echo that I think a narrower road to keep things slow would be great yeah we just threw in a stop sign up there for that very concern so um that's all I'll say about that you already have enough feedback um and then my only suggestion frankly with all of our opinions on this um let's keep projects moving um that usually does save time energy and money and so um make decisions move on we'll get over it at some point if we disagree so um I think that would probably be the most effective way to make sure we get a good road and um do it cost effectively so anyway thank you thanks for your work hello I'm Denise s and we own property at 4194 Homewood this our daughter Carly who's planning on taking over the property over the next year that's why she's here with us and um we're looking forward to the improvements we also so really admire the quaintness and history that white bear um has I think it's something really unique especially in the north northern part of the Twin Cities and on that note we have um somewhat of a well we considered a bit of a historic retaining wall that isn't very probably efficiently positioned and will be removed because it's going to be in that area there are also number number of other homes around us that have similar walls and I they're just a cobblestone technique um but very cute and quaint and so we're wondering if there's going to be any consideration for building maybe a little bit of that character back in and some of those areas where it's removed and we're looking forward to working with you to maybe come up with some ideas on that you kind of familiar with what they're talking about yes we've had a discussion about talked I'm just kind of officially here making the the comment and I guess we feel somewhat passionate about it so can we address those at another time has there been any discussion or in the planning process have have you worked through any of the Aesthetics part or is it pretty much curb on the on the aesthetic side normally um a replacement for a wall is usually a modular block type wall which is a um not very much character in that yeah um how about Cobblestone we could look at Boulder walls Boulder walls are I I've noticed on 96 Highway 96 where it looks like similar things have been done where they've done a really nice job with um a cobblestone paper it looked like it was kind of the standard maybe but just looking forward to discussing that and wanted to get that Issue request I think feasibility study goes along they're going to know more of what's going to be destroyed or taken down and what's going to be replaced so right now there's might be some question as to how much and where and when and right so we're we're getting there we're not quite there yet so and I'm pretty sure we're we're going to have to do something different than what's there I mean it's quite obvious and understand the reasoning behind it I'm just hoping that we can work something out maybe work together cuz we have a bit of a unique area as you move into the driveway where there's a little stairway and doesn't necessarily have to be there but it's cute but maybe if we removed it and widened the entrance it might help the project and maybe we could do something around the curve to maybe build a little bit of that back in maybe not have the whole wall there but that kind of stuff and and there are number of other homes down the block there that have similar um features and it just looks really neat so the township would try to be sensitive to all the neighbors concerns so yeah and at that next open house where we have the plans we will we will be able to show how it's affecting those features okay and then we could get your preference on you know from a cost perspective um the modular block and the boulder are pretty close but when you get into more of a cast in place okay that's a lot lot Coster costlier so that's understandable and and boulders are are great I mean that's what's there now and so that's kind of why we ask so so we can kind of get your preference at that meeting okay and and we can see how it's impacting the property sure all right well that was all I have thank you thank you thank you all right anyone else yeah I'm Brent Mason 2660 Southshore Boulevard it's on the corner Summit and we just bought uh that home in July so we're new to Whitebear Township we're excited about the project is it 100% sure that it will happen this year next year or 2020 it's it's a for sure well and like I said unless the bids just come in astronomically too high that's good question about this where the storm sewers where will they tie into to they tie in on Arbor and on County Road F okay so along Southshore there's more of a ditch that we'd uh um um beaver tail the curb down and they would spill off into the ditch system okay my understanding is that ditch system doesn't drain today yeah and I've had conversations with the county about um how do do how do they want us to handle that and until they improve Southshore Boulevard um it kind of is what it is um we're not going to be putting in storm sewer along um Southshore Boulevard with this project because they have plans to do some improvements in the future to that area and it would those Investments would be lost yep so that was you partially answered that question earlier if this was going to be tied to sell shore that is some of this money as let's say Summits redone and then in 2021 or 22 they come in and tear it up to do Southshore and then we get assessed again to fix it what they did they'd be tying into yeah what we what we do okay so you wouldn't be double dipping to if they came back and tore up something and usually our count the county road improvements are are funded aren't assessed okay so okay I hope it goes through thanks guys thank you all right anyone else hi thanks for your time and all your hard work on this uh Jan Barnes and I am at 4223 Homewood Avenue so a couple of little things that I've listened to tonight and have because I came in for one other reason um but in consideration of the widening of the roads to allow for more parking or for emergency vehicles have we ever considered that we just do not allow parking on one side of the street or the other because I've only been here 3 years but I haven't noticed that there is a huge amount of parking that needs to happen on the streets so would it be more cost effective to keep the streets at the width that they are and just absolutely no parking along one side of the street um because again I'm think I'm in agreeance with a lot of you that do we want a full 30 mph drive because as it on to home would people come speeding around that corner and even though my little neighbors have moved out now I was kind of petrified for their lives if they got stuck in the street while somebody came ripping around the corner to go um but maybe some kind of a speed deterrent some speed not necessarily the big bumps but just humps I guess they call them so that it slow Township doesn't like doing that the township doesn't care for doing speed bumps but it's just not parking obviously as Steve said it's it's safe for pedestrian walking it's emergency vehicles if there are Vehicles parked there you got to have at least room to get by there's a number of things that go into consideration if if if it's if it's available to widen it the town preference is to to get it a little bit wider just so we're not looking at this 10 years down the road and having somebody say why didn't you widen it what is a standard Road width that you typically try to aim for is it 28 oh I've actually reduced a lot of streets to the 28 it's it's it's something that's worked really well that I've seen in other communities but normally don't don't we normally stay around 30 normally a street standard is 30 to 32 right okay and then I guess the other thing and maybe this goes back to the assessment here in that Pat informed us about tonight but I guess the question I had for all of you was in the fact that we're being assessed by units not by Lots or by linear footage and how we arrive at that conclusion given the fact that I've got maybe a 30 foot lot the guy across the street has maybe 65 to 70 feet um and then the people that sorry for those that live on the corners but they live on the um Southshore but yet their lots and their driveways are coming in off of Homewood or one of the side streets that are being improved and they maybe take up an additional lot behind that I would be or the smaller Lots any of the smaller lots are assessed at the same rate as what somebody that has a double or maybe a two and a half size lot and why we're doing it the way we are per unit versus linear footage per lot yes I can answer that okay so it it's these are all kind of residential all residential lots there's certain projects that uh you might have a commercial property um um industrial property and residential mix or apartment um in those cases it's more um where you'd use a linear footage in my experience use a linear footage or an area assessment for those type of properties because you have different types of properties in this case all all the properties in this neighborhood are Residential Properties M now in the life cycle of of a a family you might have just one driver you might have two but as as you get teenagers you might have three drivers and and your neighbor next to you might only have one but over the life cycle of uh of of home of a home you're you're eventually that home is going to turn over and it might have four or five drivers it just it equates evenly over the life of everything to have a unit assessment for for this cuz it's it's used that you have one access to to the to the uh to the roadway and it's used by a a residential family MH yes no and I understand that but again you're going back to a house that sits on a double lot probably has four or five bedrooms versus the house that's on the smaller lot that has two maybe three bedroom rooms are they going to have the same size family over the lifespan so there would be less wear and tear coming out of the smaller units and I based this off of my previous life I was uh condo dweller and in the condo development all of our assessments and all of our association fees were based by square footage because they calculated that somebody that lives in the 4,000 sq ft unit is going to have more people living in it so they're going to go through more water more utilities um more drivers going in and out so more wear and tear and maintenance coming from the larger units than it is the smaller units so I guess that's kind of where I was questioning should we not be looking at that and that gets into additional detail that I mean you could have a a home on a large lot that only has two bedrooms I mean mhm it's it's more detailed than we can even get into into with uh with trying to determine what's your square footage of a of a of a property of the of the dwelling it just gets into more minutia that um further complicates an assessment than it really needs to be okay so the person that has the $500,000 house should pay the same as the person with the $200,000 still using the same road but only one of them versus two so and I'll just leave that with my thoughts and my Impressions because again you know again I know you want to hear what we all have to say and I think there would be a lot of people in the community as well that would feel the same way so thank you thank you all right uh anyone else all right seeing none I'll look for a motion to close the public portion of the hearing so moved second fa say I I I I'll opposed all right any further discussion with Larry um Patrick do you have anything to add I think uh the engineer thank you Mr chair the engineer uh do you have to tackle that with problem tonight or that's what I heard him say that he needed some direct not speaking for you so you tell them it would be it would be nice to hear from the board what their pref if we want to start with the 28 foot or just want to roll with a lower or a reduced WID Scott what's your opinion would there be a meaningful difference in the price meaningful difference in the price no okay and because you're you're still doing curb on both sides it's a three-foot difference on um several of the streets I I wouldn't say it it' be a drastic improvement it would be less it' be less asphalt T minut but it'd be the same amount of concrete um same engineering or would there be a difference in engineering or anything else that or base a little more engineering with the wider Street cuz we're having to fit it with uh with streets that are of a smaller width well those were I guess you know I I those were my questions Steve well again I if the standard width is 30 and we're trying to get somewhere in between in in the case of Homewood 25 to 28 um I I think we need to go with the The Wider roads because we have other areas with all we hear about is that we were resort community and our roads are too narrow and where possible this is the time to do it if we're going to if we're going to go through the expense and energy of of redoing these roads they should be as best as they can for the future and the future is a wider Road I'd prefer the wider road so prefer the wider Road I'm not going to argue against it just my main question was would there be a meaningful difference and I basing it on your experience in in doing this I I guess too Larry if it gets down to it where budget constraints or or for some reason it's just is going to get caught then we can always decide to take that out but I think we should proceed with it trying to put it in so you're hearing a consensus from the board that way that what you're looking for yes thank you all right so you're looking for are there any other questions or comments all right then uh you're looking for an motion to adopt the resolution for ordering the improvements for 2020-1 based on the town Engineers uh and staff review and recommendation I'll move to adopt the resolution ordering Improvement 2020-1 I'll second that motions made second all in favor say I I I all opposed all right thank you everyone for your uh comments and trust me we we hear them loud and clear boy Mr chair can I just uh State once again the for the rain Garden program I think I heard one person at least that might be interested if you're interested at all it doesn't commit you to sign up to have us take a look at it um and if if you're seeing this on uh television you can call me at 651 292 4457 or email me at Larry l r y.p p o p p l tk.com if you're interested at all in in having us take a look at whether a rain Garden might fit on your property thank you all right move on um item number nine we' have some Finance officers items Tom a few uh the first one uh is a resolution uh that you're being asked to adopt that will reduce the tax levy for our bonds when we issued the bonds in 2019 for the street projects uh there were uh different parts uh similar to what we were just discussing where there were assessments uh a Township share and then uh different parts for the utilities when the bonds were issued uh the parts that were there for the utilities was also uh the only way they could show it in the bonding documents was to show it as a uh tax levy and we do not need to Levy for that as we have the funds in the water uh fund the sanitary sewer fund and the storm sewer so the resolution before you is taking our debt Levy uh from 85,3 and reducing it by 18, 80235 and so we'll have the debt Levy of 65 392 that was uh part of the uh tax levy that was voted on last Tuesday uh at the uh special Town budget meeting Steve any questions I have no questions Noe uh only that the resolution should that state for the 2020 tax levy uh it's the uh no it will actually uh uh just reduce the levy okay all right hearing no other discussion looking for a motion on the resolution I'll move based on staff review and recommendation adopt the resolution reducing tax levy pursuant to Minnesota statute section 475.894 [Music] uh we reduced it uh and had a lower Levy that was sent to the county in September that was used in the tax notices and since then we've reduced it uh further and so uh last week uh at the annual Town budget meeting we presented a uh Levy for 2020 of 3,662 778 and that's made up of the pro the general operating property tax of 3,293 500 our fiscal disparities of 303 866 and then that debt Levy that we just passed of 65,0 392 and so once again you're asked to uh adopt uh the resolution uh for the amount to be collected for uh 2020 taxes got anything no NOP obviously the board's been reviewing this for most of the year so I think we beat it to death um hearing no other discussion do I have a motion I'll move based on the staff review and recommendation adopt the resolution adopting the amount to be raised by property taxation for the year 2020 I'll second that motion M seconded all in favor I I I will oppos that motion carries uh the next one is the 2020 CIP all right uh again this is something that uh you've been reviewing uh for some time as we've gone through the budget process um each year we develop uh part of our 10-year uh CIP or Capital Improvement uh program uh the items listed in 2020 are included in our 2020 budget and uh the items that are in 2021 through 2029 are there kind of as a place marker and can be changed all the purchases for 2020 that are listed uh still have to go through our normal uh purchasing policy uh and get board approval um there is one change that I found uh this morning that uh we forgot to delete out and that is uh in the water fund uh out of the Capital Equipment uh we still have the water truck uh listed there for 2020 and seeing they just bought it I don't think we're going to buy another one next year so I need to remove that but uh other than that uh uh before you is the uh summary of the CIP and your handout material and uh we're looking for uh the board to adopt our uh 10year CIP and obviously this is still kind of a uh work in motion because some of the stuff can be moved around it can be moved around as I said all the items that are in the CIP still need to go through the normal uh purchasing policy uh depending on the cost of the item they either need to get bids or quotes and uh then it has to go through uh Town board approval and and so forth so uh it's always something that can uh be pushed off or uh moved up uh and as I said the stuff in the uh from 20121 to 2029 are really there just as placeholders as we think of items that when the trucks will wear out when Street Improvement projects will take place and so forth I mean I know we've been trying to get uh restrooms at polar Lakes Park for a while so that that number bounces pretty good well we have restrooms we just want permanent restrooms versus Porta poodies all right any other questions of Tom on the CIP no again we've reviewed this and pretty much tried to massage it as best we can to fit into the program so uh do I have a motion for or or am I you can do it yep based on staff review and recommendation approve the 2020 to 2029 Capital Improvement plan or CIP have second second all favor say I I I all opposed that motion carries next is adopting the 2020 budget uh this was presented to the residents last Tuesday at the special Town budget meeting uh we're looking uh for you to adopt uh I think it's a resolution that's in here I guess it's not in here but uh we're asking you to uh adopt the budget uh the general fund budget as recommended by the residents last week uh is proposed at 4,488 213 which is just over a 6% increase over the 19 budget and uh again it includes the tax levy that was just adopted and this is what was presented and recommended by uh the township residents that were in attendance of last week's meeting and again you guys have been through this uh at various workshops yeah uh Tom does it doesn't that have to be a resolution or am I mistaken uh yes it should be a resolution and I don't know why it's not in here so so so Mr parot Mr attorney what's the you can can you walk them through a verbal resolution Tom uh basically the resolution uh would just uh outline uh the uh the U budget amount and uh say that it is for the 20 20 budget so all I would say basically is uh you've had the different workshops we started the budget process in in March with the annual meeting and we're now down to the 4 million 488 uh 213 is it just pretty much confirming your memo that's in our packet yes okay so if the board's comfortable with that um yes so for this motion though we say what's here and then put it in the form of a resolution with a either he or I making the motion is that what we're going to do yeah because uh SC all wasn't drafted that way um I'm assuming either one of you could do it well I'll I'll move based on the staff review and recommendation approve a resolution for the 2020 budget uh as outlined in your uh consideration for adopting the 2020 budget memo dated 121619 and put it in the form of a resolution Mr Kelly does that work that's perfect sir I'll second that all right motions made and seconded all in favor say I I I I all opposed all right what M you got next here uh transfer of funds transfer of funds this is again a resolution uh that we need adopted by the town board uh in order to transfer money from One Fund to another fund uh we do this every year as part of our uh budget process uh a lot of these transfers are included in the uh 2019 budget uh the first one we are asking is a transfer from the Eda fund of $7,500 to the general fund uh to help Co cover the cost of the annual Township Day Festival and uh it'll be paid out of the eda's loan payback account and that was uh included in our 2019 budget the second transfer again is from the Eda fund of 7500 uh to the general fund to cover the cost of the historic town hall management by the Historical Society uh they're uh kind of running the the town hall uh for programs and that sort of thing and charging the township uh I think it's $1,500 or $155,000 and half of it's coming from the Eda fund and again it come from the loan payback fund of the account of the Eda and was included in our 2019 uh budget the third transfer again is from the Eda this time going to the 2011 C Tiff Bond uh it's actually coming from the compal district and it's in the amount of 90 uh 97,3 75 and again that was part of the 20 2019 budget our fourth transfer uh is for the annual seal coat project it comes out of the general fund and goes into our Capital uh Improvement fund uh that transfer for uh 2019 again it was part of the budget uh and and it's in the amount of 81,500 and then uh the next uh two transfers uh are uh one is from the general funds Park and Recreation fund of 200,000 and the other one is for from the park acquisition uh fund for $685 and both are going to the park Improvement fund uh for Park improvements and again both of those were included in our 2019 budget in the past we've had transfers from the general fund uh to other funds uh to meet our fund balance bance policy of maintaining uh 40 5% of the next year's operating budget for cash flow and 5% for contingencies and right now it appears that uh with the way our 20 our 2019 actual revenues and expenditures are coming in uh we'll have a fund balance somewhere between uh 47% or 49% so we do not have any transfers for those so um uh we're still within our fund balance policy uh but we got to get it back up to that 50% level be and above before we make other transfers to other funds uh for excess uh reserves so with that you have uh resolution 1951 uh before you uh to approve these uh transfers questions comments yes um just for my education um is this similar to where we have been setting funds aside knowing we were going to need them at a certain point specifically targeting certain areas that we knew we were going to spend them and now we're just simply moving it from one account to another account to actually account for the expense yes and no uh some of it is is as you say kind of knowing we've got to set money aside the the transfers that are there uh that were asking you to approve tonight are actually items that we've actually spent in 2019 but they're funded through other sources such as um the 2011 C Tiff bond has to get paid out of our uh bond funds but the money is actually collected as part of the the tax increment from the comtal tax district and so we need to move the money from the Eda fund over to the bond fund and that's what all of these uh transfers are doing is is where we've budgeted uh improvements in One Fund uh in the case of the park uh and are funding it from other Town sources and so we're moving that money likewise the Eda funding the township day and the uh Town Hall management those are uh general fund expenditures but the Eda shares in it so they transfer the money over to the so you're just syncing up your ledger accounts yes okay um the fund balance policy of the general fund as I said is to keep uh 50% of the next year's operating budget as a reserve uh because uh we want 45% because we don't get those those tax settlements will they come in July and December so we need about uh 45% of that tax settlement uh to get us until we get that tax settlement in July and then like we like to keep 5% just as a contingency in case something happens that you know a storm comes through and we got to remove trees and are spending a lot of overtime and that sort of thing uh but unfortunately uh we're a little bit below that 50% so we're not actually transferring money to set aside for future projects where in the past we had over 50% general fund and we transferred it to like the street Improvement projects okay Steve I have no questions I just I would actually I would like to publicly uh complement our town finance officer that that game we play of hitting that 50% % is a lot of bouncing around you do a fine job on it so thank you all right hearing no other questions or comments uh looking for a motion on this resolution I'll make a motion based on staff review and recommendation adopt resolution 19.51% fund balance classifications yes this is another item that we get to do every year uh this is a gby requirement for our bookkeeping uh gby stands for the governmental Accounting Standards Board uh they classify our fund balances into uh nonspendable uh restricted committed or assigned and then unassigned uh fund balances and there are certain things that that we have that uh fall into those uh first four categories and in order for them to be in those categories we need the town board to actually approve them and so uh tonight what we're asking is in the general fund we're asking for uh Public Safety to be assigned uh $3,417 and what that is is are false alarm money uh less any expenditures they spend on either the school carnival or lately they've been spending it on a giveaway at uh Township day uh last year they bought a uh iPad to give away at township day and so that's uh the balance of that fund when we started charging for uh false alarms uh the idea was that that uh money would be set aside for the public safety uh committee to uh use for uh Public Safety events so that's why that is being assigned and then in the park acquisition uh fund a number of years ago uh we were uh given a donation uh to develop uh Rutherford Park and that uh when the money was donated it was was designated for uh that Park development and so we need to set that up as a restricted fund balance and that's in the amount of $638 5.36 and then in the Eda fund we've purchased a number of lots uh some uh which we are planning on reselling and uh that is nonspendable because it's no longer in cash but in land and so that uh right now totals the value there totals uh 1,345 75629 and then finally uh we've had money set aside for a number of years in the storm water fund uh which is uh falls into the assigned classification of $250,000 uh for drainage improvements along Stillwater Street whenever that gets done so tonight I'm looking for the board to approve uh those fund balance classifications as submitted and again that's required by uh the governmental Accounting Standards Board questions comments I know Tom over the years these fund balance classification they really haven't changed much have they uh the ones that change uh are the public safety one in the general fund uh based on the number of false alarm uh Revenue we bring in versus what the Public Safety Committee uh spends on the different events and then um it doesn't really change well in certain years it changes uh we have to Val get the market value of the land that we hold in the Eda fund and a couple of years ago uh we had to increase that considerably over what it was on the books and so uh that one took kind of a big jump uh two three years ago but the last couple of years it hasn't really fluctuated that much all right any other questions or comments no thought do I have a motion on the uh fund balance classifications I will move based on staff review and recommendation to approve the fund balance classifications as set out in the memo have a second second motions made in second and all in favor say I I I I opposed all right that motion carries all right our last item here on the agenda is the electrical inspector Services I know our cler Treasurer had to uh make a hasty Retreat he left his briefcase though is that I get to take that so Tom you going to go over this for uh I don't know that I really can I guess I haven't been too involved in uh that but uh I'll kind of give you the background on it uh our uh electrical inspector uh is retiring at the end of the year and as uh Pat mentioned earlier tonight uh we did do an RFP for uh to replace the Electrical uh inspector and they received just one proposal from tokal inspections and uh he does inspections for uh vness Heights Arden Hill Shor view Roseville uh and then of course uh it sounds like uh we're not the only ones uh with this problem so it sounds like uh White Bear Lake and Gem Lake are also going to uh hire him for their services uh with that uh there is uh in your packet the RFP there's a copy of that uh a copy of the typical uh permit uh application for electrical and then um kind of examples of uh the homeowner contractor worksheet uh that is included and then uh copies of his Insurance uh and then the copy of the contract and there's also uh I believe a revised contract in your supplemental packet and I believe the town attorney has gone over the contract I believe yeah do you have the revised uh just yeah I was going to say just on here I can give you my copy I don't have a paper copy paper just a couple of things that uh in the packet is uh his background and responsibility uh Mr Kelly is correct he does uh do a number of electrical inspections for other communities and our research indicated that um they're very satisfied um one of the revised contracts this is this is what I was looking for uh and I've had a chance to review it in other cities and if you look to uh sub paragraph B above files uh maintain own records outside of town office shall be allowed uh to be in full compliance with Minnesota chapter data practices I think that's a very very important item if we get asked about data practices that they understand that they have the obligation under chapter 13 uh to um to abide by that it's also important that that in the contract he does one other thing he refers to the responsibility of the city this is in one of the floating documents it should be the town and he also refers to exhibit a uh which I presume is the resolution that will allow permit fees we don't have a copy what I would suggest uh is that uh um that we uh have approved the contract subject to final review on EX it B finally if you go to the second page uh of this contract it talks about that he's a uh duly authorized representative one of the interesting things in toco's standard form contracts it doesn't put his address so we'll we'll make sure that's in there where is he we know he's a Minnesota Corporation we know where he's out of and where the billing is but it doesn't specifically state it also doesn't give us his actual business phone number cuz I looked through the whole thing I couldn't find that either I thought he had some supplement he's got he's got a sell number which is only prev I think to the to the township but I don't know if he gives that out well we'll we'll clear that up that's a really good point because one of the things that contact what had me a little bit concern he's been around he has a good reputation but you know we're on fine we look at these a little bit tighter and you know the first thing I saw was well there's no business address or no he's a Minnesota Corporation but we understand that we should have an idea and we'll put that as a supplement that he advises us um and uh the basically other standard language about formatting so the supplements uh are the in the supplement materials it's pretty good I mean these were areas when I looked at it uh got the assignment to come out today I I thought this should be in here and obviously it is so good job actually I went to his website to get that information oh is that right yeah because he gives us his his website and like I said some information but I was a little I've known our previous inspector well fact he's still on the job till the first but Jim Manel has been with the township for boy as long as I can remember but when I called Jim uh to talk about replacing them he had given me a couple of names but uh the pet togle was way up high on his list of recommendations so even though we only got one RFP I feel pretty confident that we've got a qualified inspection company and like I said he's working this whole area so and he also has three inspectors that work with him which is kind of nice because Jim has always been by himself so it was a little bit of a strain on him when a lot of inspections come up so this may be an actual a little bit of a benefit for the township so yeah the other thing too that we'll uh I'll tell Chad about is that if he has other inspectors coming out we should have notification you know who's on his team yeah I think there was at least three besides him that you've checked the website so very good does there need to be any kind of comment made that we did only receive one response to our r i i if I may Mr chair I think that this is and um Mr Kelly indicated when you you're a retired person there aren't a lot of people out there and it seems like it's very interesting we're stuck with you know one RF you sent the RFP up you did that well now you're balancing it out that you have a response do you believe it's reasonable in the best interest of the uh Township one of the attributes that you have here or one of the positives is that this particular corporation does inspections for sh view Little Canada vness Heights Ardon Hills and it just a list go chap and list goes on and on so you know that as when you're evaluating biders that they're capable and competent in doing the business so in answer your question you're fine that's part of the things that uh you you haven't made an analysis and if you feel comfortable with it it's good and I don't think you're going to have other rfps because one of the advantage advantages this Corporation has like you indicated he's in the are area so he he knows the terrain he knows the environment and um we'll take a look and see how it works good question you have any questions Steve no I think covered them anything else SC all right I gather looks like staff wants us to do this in three motions yes I'll do the first one based on staff review and recommendation approve the Whitebear Township consultant service agreement in the supplement uh with tokal inspections Inc effective January 1 2020 to continue until terminated by either party upon a 45 day written notice would you like that uh final uh attorney approval yeah added in there uh with final attorney approval for the township subject to subject to yes I'll second that motion man seconded all in favor say I I I I also move based on staff review and recommendation approve amendments to section 2-5 of ordinance number 54 fees and charges which will establish the electrical permit fees by Town board resolution this change will allow us to make any changes to the fees easily without unnecessarily publication unnecessary publication of fees moving forward I will second that motion made second all in favor say I I I I all opposed and based on the staff review and recommendation I'll move to adopt the resolution establishing the electrical permit fees in the town of white bear I will second that Mo me second it all favor say I I I well we now have a new building inspector as of January 1st electrical electrical sorry want to say at the mic replace all right let's see that concludes our agenda we have no added agenda items I number 11 is open time pretty sparse anybody want to want to speak Deb never does either of you all right uh item 12 I need a motion for a receipt of agenda materials and supplements it's all moved second all favor say I I I opposed and then I need a motion for an adjournment so moved have a second second all in favor say I I I we are adjourned at 8:28 e