[Music] good afternoon mayor and Council today's work session is just an update on our assessments and we will kick it off with Wayne ma who will talk about storm water Capital Improvements program thank you ma'am mayor council members thank you very much for the opportunity to come talk about storm water today um we're excited about this I am Wayne miles I'm the storm water manager in Engineering Services um I'll be assisted by Barbara baranta who is our division manager over planning and asset management and when I assisted by that means Barbara is going to give the bulk of the presentation um storm water is on the minds of our community right now and and and right rightly so um we are developing community um and we work hard every day to mitigate the impacts of those development uh we are see seeing statistically the changes in rainfall that support we are seeing climate change right right now um and we are working hard to be more resilient in terms of grainstorm or infrastructure in terms of flood plane buffer mitigation and and management and we all last fall were starkly reminded in the southeast of the potential impacts of larger tropical storms and and um and and we are working every hard every day to get ready for those impacts um we are being smarter about the technology we use to understand and predict those impacts of of flooding and using technology to help um alert our citizens and we are helping our community be smarter themselves about how to prepare and what to do um when when those impacts are are forecast and when they are seeing storm storm impacts in short to be stormwater smart so what we're going to talk about today fits in very well with the ongoing preparations uh that our team is is doing especially related to Capital Improvements and capital Improvement needs we're going to talk about our our our overall categories um our summary of our 10-year Capital Improvements plan and then at the end I want to take a few minutes on a very specific project related to Rose Lane safe access that is one project that is very profile and we are at a milestone that I want to want to keep city council informed of that project uh before we we take the next steps with that I'll turn it over to Barbara bonto right good morning everyone uh before we jump into storm water categories I did want to provide some context so flooding water quality and aging infrastructure are storm water challenges and risks that our community faces and our Capital Improvements plan is aimed at addressing those challenges es we have 920 million in known storm water Capital Improvement needs in five categories major CIP projects water quality Asset Management flood plane management and then other programs which is a combination of other smaller programs um using our current uh in our next part of the presentation we're going to go over each one of those categories talk about how the projects are generated and then provide some EX examples and I'd like to point out that using our current pay as you go strategy it would take us 66 years to deliver these known Capital needs so as Wayne is going to talk about in April we're proposing a debt and Grant strategy to improve this to a 25-year delivery all right so first category major capital projects major capital projects address flooding renew assets improve water quality these are larger projects like neighborhood conveyance improvements big asset replacement Dam Rehabilitation many of these uh major capital projects are developed through Watershed planning process which looks at collecting data like survey or stream walks analyzing that data um through hydraulic modeling or water quality modeling to to Define projects and we have studied all of our water sheds and we're in the process of renewing those studies and updating our storm water needs one of the big changes we've made is including Community engagement throughout this process and this is really important to us we're making decisions in how to spend millions of dollars and we want to make sure the community is involved and we want Equitable Community engagement so we want to make sure that the people we're talking to are representative of the area that we're studying so to do this we reach out to our Department of Community engagement we incorporate best practices from the community engagement Playbook engage stakeholders hold online surveys public meetings and then we track the demographics to confirm that the input is representative okay so that's kind of the process and how a lot a lot of these major projects are developed and now we'll look at to examples one is the camp Pon Dam project and this is an 11 million project in West Raleigh uh the city has a road over the crest of the dam and this road is a oneway in one way out access for about 40 homes under that road is the dam Spillway which is eroding is corroded and in uh impacting the dam embankment so this project will maintain access for the community and address a notice of deficiency for North Carolina Dam safety and then we'll look at one more example example and this is the one that Wayne is going to talk more about at the end of the presentation but again this is a oneway in oneway out access point uh Rose Lane for this community and it floods a couple times a year preventing people from entering or leaving that community so this project is intended to provide safe access all right so switching to the second category in our CIP which is water quality and there's two parts there's stream and Wetland restoration and GSI so we'll talk about stream and Wetland restoration first so stream and Wetland restoration improves water quality and natural habitat so wetlands are like Nature's filters they remove the pollutants and sediment from the water stream restoration also provides water quality benefits and it connects the stream to the flood plane so that Pro that allows water to spread out during rain events and slow down and protects Downstream areas from flooding uh this is an example of a project that we did in partnership with the parks department so Wooten Meadow Park where we had a wetland and stream restoration and all the pictures on the right are show that people are enjoying the space they're taking pictures of all these Critters they find at the park and posting them online so how do we find these projects uh stormw water has partnered with USGS to look at the condition of the stream Citywide using liar data so this is helping us to identify erosion hotspots this uh project is wrapping up this spring uh they've shown that over 40% of Raleigh streams have moderate to severe erosion so again additional opportunities for stream restoration to date most of our projects have been in uh city property so here's an example of an upcoming project again a partnership with Parks this is a 1.9 million project in southeast Raleigh it's utilizing a million dollars in grant funding and we'll rest streams and wetlands in the park the next project is upper Durant Wetland conversion this is a 9.4 million project up in North Raleigh converting upper Durant Lake which has a failing Dam infrastructure into a storm waterer habitat Wetland okay so this is the second part of the water quality which is greenstorm water infrastructure or GSI so GSI is a nature-based solution so traditionally storm water um includ included having pipes and gutters and moving that water away as fast as possible from buildings and Roads uh that doesn't help water quality and can promote Downstream flooding so these nature Solutions use plants permeable soils to wa allow the water to infiltrate where it falls naturally and this provides water quality benefits it also provides amenities for the community so people can enjoy these spaces and these green spaces also help mitigate Urban heat so there's a lot of benefits to GSI and Raleigh stormw helps provide GSI funding for other departments so we help support planning design and construction of GSI on other City projects such as Gibson play Plaza which is opening this spring or the Civic Tower which is currently under construction and then thanks to council support we now have a GSI maintenance crew which is house and parks to help us maintain these devices after they're constructed which brings us to our third category in the CIP which is asset management so Asset Management improves Public Safety protects water quality and reduces cost we have three Asset Management Programs one for green storm water infrastructure another for dams and another for storm water conveyance and this is the inventory that we maintain and it's important to go out and inspect these assets regularly so you can find defects especially for the underground assets like pipes because if you're not proactively looking for problems you may not realize you have them until they manifest at the surface and and in the form of a sinkhole or a depression in the roadway just do you have Smart Technologies that could help you identify problems yeah so um so storm water does fund um um about 70 positions in transportation and we have a crew that goes out and does inspections of the pipe using a pole camera or a robotic um camera that runs through the pipe and they scan for defects and those are are coded using a national recognized coding system and that coding system is loaded um is what we use to prioritize repairs okay that answer your question okay all right so this team the asset manage management teams go out they look for problems and the idea is to find them and fix them while they're small before they become expensive emergencies so an example of this is our storm water U pipe rehabilitation program so the inspection Crews go out during our Watershed studies they inspect all the undergr Assets in the roadway they identify um pipe and poor condition that's critical to the system these assets are bundled up into Rehabilitation projects and we are looking to line these pipes which is a much more coste effective technique than digging down and replacing them all right moving along to the fourth category which is flood plane management flood plane management protects Public Safety and enh enhances Community resilience so this program has a lot of public Outreach to tell people um hey you live in a Fluff Throne area here's the risk you're facing and here's how to prepare for larger storm events and we're working on improved uh assessment and mapping to help convey that risk this team also does planning studies for areas that are frequently flooded and looking at ways to make them more resilient and also has a excuse me voluntary flood Hazard mitigation program so folks who have repetitive losses due to flooding can participate in this program could you just say more about the voluntary uh participation what do what does that look like sure so um it's really looking at houses that were built before flood plane regulations that experience frequent flooding structural flooding and so this um program offers to buy the house using uh grant funding helping leverage with grant funding and there's also a component that helps um with with a relocation cost and is that fair market value purchase or yes well Barbara when did the storm water regulations go into effect so I have a sense about those properties that were built that were not part of those guidelines I get tons of emails there's a storm water problem when I look at it I can tell it was a homebuilt in the 50s or 60s so when was do those rules go into effect I decade is fine yeah yeah so good great question um so the history of our program is we had sediment erosion control regulations were the very first thing that went into place in 1974 and then flood plane regulations flood plane Maps were around 1978 um and then those were really the major programs regulatory programs we had here in Raleigh until really 2003 is when our regulations related to post construction storm water detention and water quality started to to kick in and that's where the bulk of our storm water control measures on the private and the public side started I'll have a follow question on that later but I want you to continue okay and just one other quick follow up on the voluntary how many houses have we actually bought through that program so if you um if you go back in history there were quite a few I don't have an exact number but the bulk of the houses we've bought here in Raleigh were after Fran um so they were in the late 90s and the reason for that is there was a disaster declaration and there was a lot of federal funding that came in as as a result of houses that flooded and were deemed flood prone um after after that storm and um and a lot of people it was fresh in their minds again this is a voluntary program so people have to agree to be bought out and when a big storm is fresh in their minds they're more likely to to do that um I'd say in the last 5 years it's really only been about four or five houses that we've bought out so that program has slowed slowed down a little bit but that is one that we are hoping to ramp ramp up against can I ask my question now please while let fresh in mind so as we're going through this I don't know if you're going to touch on it but very often U I'm sure a lot of calls that we get uh this is an area that does experience flooding a new case is coming in to do a new project wait a minute don't build because it's only going to exacerbate the flooding even though regulations will make sure you capture the storm water on site so just want to understand in those circumstances is uh how do you advise us to go through that do the current storm water regulations capture any new development storm on site or because there is a problem there is an extra due diligence that must occur to give the adjoining property owners some comfort that that development will not increase Stone waterer impacts on their property yes so um I'll try to be brief because there's a lot that goes into our regulations our current regulations require post construction Peak flows to be the same or less than preconstruction Peak flows for a 2-year storm and a 10-year storm and a 10-year storm for example is about a 10% chance in any given given year and and and those are our existing regulations um where we have documented um occurrences of structural flooding Downstream of a development and that development has um controls more than 5% % of the drainage area going to that area then that increases the threshold they have to control a 100-year storm so much higher level and that is all part of our U Udo now there are other circumstances um sometimes developers will offer above and beyond as part of resoning conditions for example but that's all voluntary got it obviously thank you okay this takes us to our last category in the CF IP which is a couple different programs uh drainage assistance and stream stabilization and the Raleigh rainwater Rewards program so our drainage assistance and stream program is designed to help home homeowners who are having impacts to their property due to flooding erosion or aging infrastructure so this is a voluntary program that they sign up for um this example shows erosion threatening a house so we did stream restoration to protect the house so that's an example of the kind of project that we have uh next is Raleigh rainwater rewards this is a really popular program we um provide funding for property owners to build water quality improvements such as rain Gardens or bio retentions or systemns on their property so in the last six years we've supported installation over 190 separate um devices and with um support from the office of sustainability we now offer 100% financing for disadvantaged communities okay last slide before I turn it back over to Wayne to talk about Rose Lane uh this is a summary of our 10year Capital Improvements you can see fiscal year 26 is a big year for us uh we're looking through debt financing and grants to design and construct a lot of those priority major capital projects and the 10-year total the 4 and 10 million will will get us a long ways through our know storm water Capital Improvement needs can I um ask a question I when we're ranking Capital Improvements we had a great presentation yesterday with a lot of different criteria what I didn't see on there was matching funds whether projects have already been started and then also uh inflationary impacts on projects so that we might also take into consideration those as we uh face massive inflationary pressures and some of the you know concrete and and materials so just how do you factor in the ability for for those other items yeah in terms of grant funding um there are usually limiting Pro limited projects that really hit the priority points that are needed for for grant funding so whenever we see the those opportunities we pursue them and we we've been fairly successful especially at the state level land and water fund is is a program um that we have been able to get some some grants the Durant Nature Preserve upper Durant project um Spotswood project and and and others and this council's been very supportive in allocating some arpa funds to our projects as well so um projects will um move to the to the front quickly if we're able to qualify for those funds and get funding and then that allows us to to accelerate those those projects often in terms of bigger priorities we have a model um a prioritization model that the stormw management advisory commission has helped us develop and that we apply to every one of our storm water projects so that determines the the the ranking order of the priority based on Public Safety water quality benefits in infrastructure benefits all based on risk modeling and barber can go in a lot as much detail as you like it's part of our Masset Management program is all all assets are assigned to a risk which has to do with the probability of it failing and then what are the impacts if that asset fails and that all dictates and drives our priorities as well I had a question on the previous slide uh just for awareness uh for the rewards program is that for individual it says uh public and private properties so is it homeowners is it an HOA a homeowner association could actually apply just need to understand the scale I'm seeing the images and it says public private properties so just want to know who would be the person applying is it the property owner is it a homeowner association individual property if you just and it is it competitive and I noticed it was about 1 point I think about 100 I was trying to see the amount of funds dedicated is it competitive is it being used on an annual basis or we should be promoting it more yeah good questions it is the private property owner okay um and we invest in um in The Green Storm waterer infrastructure on that property so there's an agreement that we sign with those property owners in exchange for for funding their their projects they have to do a sign a maintenance agreement for a certain period of of time um and it's either 75% or 90% reimbursement depending depending on um the area of the city we have some high water quality impaired waterways that get a higher reimbursement although we're looking at that we also though have partnered with office of sustainability we have a 100% subsidy program now that's available um for um qualified applicants based on the the income and and the rental and they can get 100% of the cost to to build GSI on on on those properties as as well thank you was the last slide okay my turn anyway yeah yeah so real quick um wanted to provide some transparency update on this important um project Barbara mentioned already uh this is a project where 55 home neighborhood many of those homes are Habitat for Humanity homes becomes isolated um during large storms um when Walnut Creek floods the only way in in and out um and that historically has happened about once or twice per per year um now we have already been working to make improvements as quickly as possible um we've installed flood warning signs that are activated based on sensors um we've been lowering Lake Johnson ahead of Storms and that's Upstream so when we preemptively lower water levels that gives us more flood storage and we've been able to use that technique to reduce the frequency of flooding from what used to be once or twice a year it's only flooded twice in the last 5 years now even though we've had some pretty good storm so that's been successful um we also with our flood early warning system have a better understanding to be able to predict when when the road will flood as well as elsewhere in Raleigh so we've preemptively put out construction signs um last fall during Debbie to let residents know we're predicting flooding tomorrow get get ready be prepared and then you heard Communications talk about the wireless emergency alerts we deployed that last fall during Debbie when the road flooded as well specifically to that neighborhood that was flooding so they would know um that that was a safety issue um but we still need to move forward we're not we we've made improvements we're not meeting the level of service we would like which is flood safe flood access for at least a 100-year storm so we're moving forward with a permanent resilient um uh alternate access and we appreciate Council has allocated $800,000 of the city's arpa funding toward this project previously um and we've been moving forward with public meetings lots of support from the residents online survey and we have an engineer hired uh for for this project and we've looked at lots of Alternatives so if you look at um trying to um zero in here this is the neighborhood uh that gets isolated and here's Rose Lane right here is where it crosses Walnut Creek and and floods so we've looked at lots of other options a bigger taller wider Bridge it's a really wide flood plane there um and there's other houses up here that flood so we don't want to make their flooding worse we've looked at going east lots of flood playing in wetlands in this area this one also crosses Walnut Creek so the preferred alternative is this way to put alternative access to the west and tie in to what is wake County's bus operations facility and So based on all of our um Alternatives that's the preferred option um and a lot less cost as is as well so we've been moving forward with that option and the first steps were to have some conversations with weight County Public Schools um about their how they felt about it real estate concerns questions and we've had some very productive conversations with them their real estate staff suggested let's um come up with a memorandum of understanding so we all agree on what conditions and how this might proceed um so that then we can finish design um and then once we get designed the negotiation of the easements is where we would ratify all of those agreements um per permanently right now this is just anou um and they have recommended that that go to the Wake County Public School Board um so we wanted to bring this to you for transparency give you the opportunity to ask any questions about this before it went um went forward to to the school board and so forth so right now we're still in the negotiations phase um with with the school with the school system so here's the next steps um we've had good public engagement but we will continue that we plan planning another community meeting continue to work with the staff um to get consensus on theou we've had our city attorney's office um engaged our real estate office engaged getting lots of good support um once we get thatou we can proceed with design um and then finally negotiate the the final easement in the term of those that easement with Wake County Public Schools and just I I want to make one clarification too um when we tie the plan to tie into the bus facility that is just a an access road it is not a right of way okay so that's their property we will need to negotiate an Ingress erress easement through their entire property the plan is at this point that will only be open and available during emergencies so we have a sensing system at Rose Lane that flashes those lights when those lights are are flashing and Clos that's when we would open up the the alternative as access and allow that that safer access through the so that's the concept at this point hopefully a future phase could make that be a permanent access but that's um that's down the road this is this is step one to give that emergency access so be glad to answer any additional questions on the Capital Improvements or this project itself councelor branch and then Harrison yeah um definitely so I'm assuming the alternate route you're looking at is the least impactful environmentally of all the other routes um also my question is what's say everything is approved from the council level and from the way County Schoolboard level what's the time frame of getting this built out yes so your to your first first question yes environmental impacts as well as costs were all part of the criteria that led to the selection of the preferred alternative to to the West timing wise um we are proceeding into design we think that will take 12 to 18 months there's still some permitting flood planes and so forth so we are budgeting in the CIP for construction to start right at the beginning of fiscal year 27 so that would be July August of of of 2026 so a little more than a year from now is when construction would actually start in the meantime we'll get ready for design easement negotiations and and so forth and does it go because I'm looking at this image and then slide 37 does it go around Lake County's property or through their property so phase one and and if you zero in you see alternative two and 2 a two is the shorter segment that would just connect only be used during emergencies um and then the remainder of the AC access would be at an Ingress egress through their existing just operations access road okay um but we do anticipate down the road and this will be part of the terms to negotiate ideally there would be a future phase two that would make that be a permanent right away that could be open all the time but that's yet to be determined and that would be additional cost to build that road okay Council Harrison yeah I'm just switching topics real quick is that okay um I wanted to go back Wayne to the USGS study and I'm sorry if I missed it is it already complete I remembered it was going to be completed in April but I missed that part I think it's really close we're we're I think we've seen maybe a preliminary draft version of it um that we're providing comments to USGS um but yet and then the the additional the final report should be issued around April so we're really close really close we do have some preliminary results as indicated here Barbara mentioned um about 40% of Raleigh streams are either moderately or severe erosion when it is available I just want to put it out there we could either have a discussion about it at the growth and natural resources committee or for Olive Council if everyone is interested I think it'll be really eye opening thanks Wayne thank you Branch had another followup so we're going to ping pong and then we'll go to Mayor protim and then councelor Patton all right so just quickly we we constantly have public comments about storm water in the creeks and connectivity what's the best way for residents to get involved get engaged I see you mentioned Community engagement but what's the best way for residents to get involved if they have ideas about a creek that's going through their backyard yeah absolutely um certainly reach out to um to to me and I can direct them to the right to the right place we did have um Community conversations last December related to storm waterer specifically so residents could go on the website and there was a survey that is still open um as part of that Community conversation that they can provide input any ideas any specific concerns that they that they have um and we're we're still accepting input um as as part of that public input process for the community conversation all of that input is being used to update the city's comprehensive plan related storm water and and set ideas for future policy issues as as well so the website is probably the best source of information and the best way to provide input and there's several input opportunities there thank you mayor Pon yeah thank you Wayne I think I've asked you for this number that's on um on your pie chart uh back when you came to present the same presentation to us what four years ago do you remember you remember what the number was um I think it was more in the $800 million range then probably so it's it's it's gone up um for for multiple reasons escalation inflation construction costs are going up but as our um um Barbara mentioned our Watershed studies are ongoing every time we do Watershed studies we add more detail as to specific projects and we can refine those those numbers as as well yeah so I just wanted to highlight that it's 920 million now um and so what you know what the difference is because I think folks reach out to us all the time about taking care of all the storm water issues throughout the City of Raleigh but I I want to make sure people understand what the price tag is to be able to go and do one fail swoop of doing everything that they are requesting that we do so that's all I wanted to say yeah no that's an excellent point and we're very excited about fiscal year 26 being our first year with Debt Service that is really going to give us a lot more capacity to finance more of these projects you know for example our our um CIP this fiscal year I think is 13.8 million so if we have one of these $ 11 million projects that means we can't do any really almost nothing else that year um but with the debt service we can continue all these great programs drainage assistance rainwater rewards um borrow for these larger projects and I think that's a more fair way of funding storm water because these improve improvements will last 50 60 70 years it's not fair for people paying storm water fees only today or this year to fund all of that so this allows us to spread out the payments for these large Capital Improvements that will serve the community for for decades um over a longer period of time thank you hi Wayne got I've got several questions for you um so for so I'm you know we're hearing a lot about people who are living across the country in um highly climate sensitive areas um and they're facing like lack of insurance and state full States being on like their insurer of Last Resort and so I know you're not an insurance professional but can you talk about how this interacts with the insurance rates that people face and like are rites well positioned should we should they start being concerned that we will be their inurance will be impacted Etc yeah good good question that's a challenging one because um the you know Barbara mentioned repetitive loss that's a statistic for homes that are in the National flood insurance program that are that are tracked how many claims they have made and insurance carriers look at all of that data regionally to look at their risk and set insurance rates so um whenever you get big storms that causes those insurers to reassess their risks and and in in the rate so um we're not immune from that um now I do have and I I can forecast a bit of good news I can't give all the details now but we are going through a process um of the community rating system right now with FEMA um that looks at our programs and we get we get rated and the better the rating that gives our um community members who have flood insurance discount on their flood insurance so I want don't want to get ahead of FEMA but I think we'll have some good news to announce here and then not too distant future that will benefit our community in terms of flood insurance rates sound good to hear um another question I have a little bit of a different angle um the stream Bank stabilization program is very important to our community members as council member Branch alluded to we have a lot of folks who um are very dedicated to the creeks in their backyards but you have limited resources and can only tend to so many projects in a year um using the neighborhood traffic management as a parallel you know they will rank order the requests and then they'll be pretty transparent with the community like we can do 20 in a year and you're 36th on the list so you can somewhat forecast out like how many years it'll be before their thing is attended to um when like do you all have a comparable sort of forecasting out for residents like your stream your particular stream in your particular backyard is 50th on the list and so that means we might get to it in 2030 we we do and that's all online projects um that have applied for and qualified for the program are are rated in terms of the priority score we put those projects on on the website um in in ranking order and the other part of that though is there's no guarantee with that order it's not first come first serve if another project comes in that happens to be scored higher you may move in that list and and I understand that can be a little bit frustrating to Residents but we we do basically go with the the priority scoring so we can give some some predictions now the other programs that we have though is we have buffer Builder bags we give stream restoration workshops so we have other avenues for community members to do some work themselves because you know the other part that folks don't often realize is streams on private property are private property owners responsibility for for maintaining them they may not have the resources or knowledge of how to do that um but we hold workshops to help teach them how they can go and and put in live stakes and put in reparan buffers and encourage vegetation to help restore some of the streams themselves and so even if they're maybe low or not not on the Stream stabilization list there are other ways that we can help them thank you thank you councilor silver no I had a had a few questions um one just on on this most recent point you made is there chance for citizens to volunteer I mean as you get these rain Gardens and green infrastructure um that may be in right along Greenways Etc do you have citizen volunteer opportunities we we do we do um there are lots of citizen opportunities probably the most visible one is one called adop a stream that you may see some of the signs around the community now those are more um litter um related and Community organizations will organize litter cleanups um but we do also ask those Community those organizations to report water quality issues they may find while they're out picking up litter or erosion and extreme stabilization um is as well the other one though is the workshops we have partnered with NC State agriculture extension to hold these these workshops and we've been holding quite a few a year um and those are are free um community members can come and learn the techniques um sometimes community members will volunteer their property for a workshop and we will pay for all the the the materials the plantings the life staking the trees um and all the other erosion and sediment matting that's needed to to restore the stream as part of the the workshop as well um and then we bring folks in um we've even been training a lot of our Parks and Recreation staff in these stream restoration techniques so they can help apply those on city parks and other city property where there's stream erosion uh issues as well okay yeah incredible um evolution of this whole program uh so second question when you look at and I'm not picking on Rose Lane but just since we have the facts that was almost 200,000 a house is there a is there a point at which you know you look at the cost per unit of what you're uh saving and what what are those thresholds yeah no fair fair fair question and that's the top we do we we did that calculation just as as you did um and we do consider that there are other societal considerations too right those are all affordable houses so what would be the cost of finding other comparable affordable housing were we just to go buy all those all those houses right um so that's that's a consideration um so it's it's challenging uh and similar considerations with the flood plane buyout program um it's voluntary a lot of people they want to be in their community so they are hesitant to to leave um and and we would we we try to find comparable housing in the same area so um that becomes increasingly challenging as as well so whenever possible we like to try to keep people in their homes as long as they're safe and the thing about the Rose Lane project is the houses don't flood the houses are safe it's really just the access um that is that is not safe so it's a little bit different situation than a house actually being in a flood plane and or in a very flood prone area I guess that's just going to the city manager as we think about what we're investing in affordable housing this 10 million almost should be right uh attribut to that effort because it's essentially uh preserving 55 naturally occurring affordable housing units if we were using creative financing um just the final thing is I recently got to sit down with ex secretary Elizabeth viser from DEQ and she was mentioning to me that there is uh and this may be more suited for our uh water sewer division but that there is a bill in the legislature around pasas and seeking uh uh money and Orange County water aasa is leading that effort she asked did did Raleigh uh want to be included in that so I'm just putting that out there and then related to P since you're dealing with some of those um she was mentioning another thing is that when firefighters put foam out like there's usually a notification because then you might know right that you you need to remediate that before storm water hits it um just any general commentary about p G and the storm water program yeah it it it's an emerging emerging field as it is with with water and wastewater as well it's something we're keeping a close eye on it's ubiquitous um in in the uh throughout the natural environment it's not only in water it's it's in air you have air deposition that creates pasas throughout our community so storm water run off make may contain it um you know long term it's a challenging um Environmental policy issue that I think until you really get good source controls um on the pasas it's going to be really challenging for us to make an impact long long term um and and those types of source controls really it's a it's a national policy issue uh at this point but it is something that we're we're keeping an eye on and if and if we see um you know hot spots or something um we can do further follow-up investigations under our illicit discharge and other storm waterer regul ations to try to address any specific areas um but the Ubi ubiquitous CommunityWide aspect of it is is really challenging okay thank you Council Jones thank you so much um first off I want to thank you for last week I'm able to join you guys at the storm water management Advisory Board and I got to take a tour and I think that was on here the upper Durant is that where we toured yes it was yes it was um so it was really crazy looking at that and learning how that is being created because because of the development that has been placed on there with all of the the runoff has created this stream which now we have to mitigate so I think it's important for us to take that into consideration as we make these uh decisions on development and having that conversation uh that was number one um I do want to delve a little bit into the survey because you did a great survey and you put it in the back of materials and I wanted to highlight uh less of questions but more of uh highlights here that 88% of survey responders said that they can commit to throwing away grease instead of pouring it down the Dr that's huge and I want people who didn't take the survey to hear that that is a way that you can substantially help um our efforts as well as the same number of people said that they can help by keeping GL grass clippings and leaves out of the storm drains I think there were a lot of great suggestions in that survey of how we as individual residents can take part in this without necessarily going to do a volunteer thing or or whatnot but it will have a bigger impact so thank you for highlighting that and then the last thing that I just want to highlight is that 91% of responders want us to build uh green storm water infrastructure and repair in place aging infrastructure which I think is definitely what we're talking about here and how you're going to uh go to a debt model to do that is there any other tool that you can think of that we can help with that you could make your job a little bit easier you mean tool tool that city council could could provide um it's hard to say you all have been very supportive and I appreciate apprciate that I think support for um these Capital Improvements um as Barbara mentioned will be coming back in in April at our budget presentation with some more specific suggestions and recommendations related to the budget and supporting programs moving forward um but really I think support for all the programs that we are doing already which you have been very supportive the drainage assistance program rainwater rewards programs we are we are looking to grow those programs as as well um funding wise and incapacity wise for us to to manage those so ongoing support of those I think we'll go a a long way to to to getting us where we would like to be and be more resilient and keep our our community safer awesome thank you so much for your work thank you for your support yeah I just wanted to follow up on the P conversation I attended a regional meeting last week um there were about 200 experts um looking mostly at Jordan Lake um and P issues there but we also had staff from the City of Raleigh um uh water and um a lot of different municipalities representing talking about how they are dealing with Pas and I'd be curious um I think marshelle if we could get a manager's report about any activities that we have to deal with pasas because it does affect various areas of our life and so whether that's storm water drinking water supply um firefighting foam um there are a lot of products or uh essential life um assets that are affected by this forever chemical and it is complicated I mean the science is um vast and I think what I learned from last week was okay there's a lot of different ways that it can get you know we can have exposure some are worse than others and you know there's a lot of costs that are incurred in treating so I'm just curious what our treatments are now I know of some but you know um even what our businesses do for example fast food containers are have a high exposure um so there's a lot of products in our everyday life that perhaps we can reduce um and there could be an educational opportunity for our residents to be aware of that um but I also don't want to you know kind of scare anyone unnecessarily I just think there is some conversation to be had for the level of pasas exposure that we have in our state MH well and then just follow I think well water right is one of the ways people might be ingesting I don't know how many people we have on well in the City of Raleigh um that was another program um there is a Bernard Allen who was you know house rep from uh Southeast Raleigh drinking water fund um that particularly helps lowincome people who may be on well and it's a testing program so it seems like there are resources and programs I'm sure we're already participating in some but given the size of the issue helpful to know um some of these additional ones that I hadn't heard of sure any other questions for Mr miles all right well billion as just asking for a billion dollars yeah thank you thank you all very much appreciate it all right uh that is all to come before us today so the work session is adjourned [Music]