okay good evening hello um it is 7 o'clock so I am going to call the meeting to order and before we get started um a reminder if you have cell phones with you please turn them on silent or airplane mode so they don't disrupt the meeting and second uh would you please join us in Pledge of Allegiance I pledge alance to flag of the United States of America to the rep for IT stand Nation indivisible withy and justice for all so welcome everyone we have a big crowd this evening um so welcome glad you're all here um I'm going to start out with introductions I'm Lisa whan I'm the mayor and to my side over here let's see it would be your right my left our council members Kathleen rekin an McGregor Peter vicory and Claudia Lacy and then on the end we have our city engineer with WSB Alison fski and then we have our director of Public Works is Gary Peters and then Ally is um Ally paulus is in the back she's going to be taking some pictures shortly not of all of you but um special guest tonight and then on my right staff members are Brian Grim our finance director David AEL our community development director and then Sarah s Salo who is our uh legal councel with Kennedy and Graven and then on the end we have our Lieutenant I think it's still Lieutenant okay July 1 it'll be deputy chief so uh Craig Squire so everyone welcome um I have a couple of changes to the agenda if you'll entertain me here so we're going to add um an item it's um going to be approve our task order number 10 um it's going to be 6E what it is is the water main improvements in Woodland Cove and then I'm going to move an item that is currently on a consent agenda it's um approve the Wetland replacement plan at 3900 kingspoint Road I want to move that down to be a business item and I'm going to add it as a second business item is that okay with Council yes all right is there a motion to approve the agenda as um amended so moved thank you Miss Lacy is there a second second thank you Mr vicory any further questions changes hearing none all those in favor signify with i i i all those opposed motion passes 5 so tonight we have a special presentation um we have a a long time 24 years right 24 year um almost to the date we talked about this earlier um Public Works person retiring and U Mike Pollock is here with us this evening and his family and we ALS always like to especially when they're longtime Good Wonderful employees we like to recognize you um so I'd first like to read a resolution and this is um a resolution recognizing Mike poock for his contributions to the Minista through his position as water operator with the Minista public works department you know what I'm going to do Mike if you don't mind I'm going to ask you to come to the podium there so sh mik's never sh I hope they only have any wanted posters that way Al can get your picture all right so whereas Mike po was hired on July 171 as a public works maintenance worker where he served in this capacity until he was promoted to water operator on December 1st 2016 and has been an integral member of Min team for nearly 24 years and whereas my colle was the city's first water operator and gain valuable knowledge in all the operations of the water powers water treatment plants lift stations water me and making modifications to them for Peak efficiency and whereas my colle has successful obtain has successfully obtained and maintained the necessary Water and Sewer operator licenses for 20 years which allowed him to perform necessary duties of this position to keep our water supply safe and whereas my PO was spent countless late nights in cold and snowy conditions plowing the city street repairing broken water me and sewer and working above and beyond the duties of his position to ensure the Public's safety and whereas my has become such a Valu member and greatly appreciated among among Min many of which know by first and last name whereas humor teamwork institutional knowledge hard work good attitude and care for his fellow staff and residents will be greatly missed whereas the city admin of Staff elected officials and Community are forever grateful for M's contribution to the city of system over years Serv and he will be greatly missed by all so now by the city council of the city ofe and for service to City of all do I have ation so thank you do I have second thank you [Applause] [Applause] well I want to say thank you to everyone in this room and it's amazing how time flies uh throughout the years I met a lot of people and it's amazing how we can work together to get things done and make life easier for everyone um there's always a word you said you never can get things done you can just by working together I love the public the taxpayers and all the people that are employed you got a wonderful group uh I wouldn't change a thing well then you have to stay then you have to stay there is an exception yes thank you Mike so again thank you Mike um it's been a pleasure I've been here most of the time while you've been here so um been a pleasure getting to know you and working with you you've done an excellent job and um I you you're a hard act to follow so so thank you yeah thank you [Applause] so I know we have a lot of people here this evening no one signed up under persons to be heard because most of the people wanting to speak will be um under an agenda item and I will give you um all a brief opportunity to do that at that time so we're going to move on to our consent agenda items and those now consist of approve our work session meeting minutes from May 20th 2024 approve our city council regular meeting minutes from May 20th 2024 a resolution to approve claims a resolution to approve the Lakeshore setback variants at 343 kingspoint Road uh approve the midyear step increases for non-union employees effective July 1st 20124 and then accept notice of retirement for water operator Mike Pollock effective July 5th 2024 and approve a permanent promotion from Public Works maintenance worker to water operator for Adam hegle effective July 5th 2024 and then a change order number 03 for the Reconstruction project completion date is there a motion to approve those consent agenda items so moved thank you is there a second second thank you miss rekin any further questions comments hearing none all those in favor signify with i i i all those approved motion passes 550 so we'll move on to our business item since we don't have any public hearings we have a conditional use use permit for a Farm Winery at 3330 Highland Road so how this is going to play out let me give you all the instructions okay so um we have had I'm going to give everybody a brief opportunity if you would like to speak you need to come up to the podium you need to state your name and address I'm going to ask that you do be brief 3 to four minutes please we have all of your emails all of your um letters we've read them I can guarantee you have and um so and also we've had two public hearings this is a public meeting but it's not a public hearing however I do open it up for public comments with that we're first going to um give staff an opportunity to re to give us the background and history of this cup um application and then if the um applicant has anything they wish to add you may do so again I'm going to ask you try and keep it brief and then I'm going to take it to the public and then it's going to come back to the council and we're going to have a discussion and make a a determination so Mr Abel I think you are on yeah thank you Madame mayor and members of council um application has been made for a conditional use permit to operate a Farm Winery at 3330 Highland Road property is located on the screen um the applicant would like uh to make and bottle wine throughout the year and sell sell that to local liquor stores and restaurants in addition to that they're asking for eight dates each year the last Saturday and Sunday in August and the the first three Saturday and Sundays in September with limited hours from 12:00 p.m. to 6:m on a reservation basis that would allow for customers to come to the site and drink and taste wine on the property uh when the council is considering a conditional use permit they should consider the effects that the proposal prop used has upon the health safety and general welfare of the city um as you noticed in your staff report we have those five criteria that are located in city code that outline um what the criteria is to consider for a conditional use permit and those are uh located throughout your staff report um as the mayor noted earlier there were two um actual public hearings and two public hearing notices that were sent out um for this request the first was a uh 500t radi is uh sent out for an April 22nd Planning Commission meeting the Planning Commission opened that hearing at the April meeting and they took testimony during that that meeting they then continued the hearing to their May 28th meeting and the uh the Planning Commission actually at that meeting asked staff to Ren notice that public hearing at a greater radius of 1,000 ft per some of the uh discussions that were uh had during that meeting so that was done for the uh May 28th Planning Commission meeting all of the written comments as the mayor mentioned have been received and put in your packet um as part of uh the public record this evening the Planning Commission ultimately did make a motion um at their May 28th meeting they did recommend approval of the conditional use permit with conditions as outlined your staff report it was a 3-2 vote um and as I mentioned there were a number of conditions that are outlined in your staff report that went along with their recommendation to you um as noted in the report there throughout this process there has been some concerns raised by neighbors and the nearby Property Owners regarding the applicant's request what the city council needs to consider with these concerns and determine how you may be able to condition an approval to as to mitigate some of these concerns that have been brought up um if the council determines that the concerns cannot be mitigated through the conditions the city council will need to cite reasons as to why the use is not appropriate for the site and we' need to have bring back some findings of fact as such um and hence then why staff is looking for direction from you this evening uh as you notice we don't have a resolution in your packet so we'd be looking for direction and a motion as to what resolution you'd like us to bring back at your next meeting okay staff can stand for any questions Council any questions at this time all right um applicant do you wish to add anything sorry hello I'm Sarah Trel I Bar's wife 3330 Highland Road I'm going to be super quick um we've listened and read through all of the comments surrounding our conditional used permit I understand how much everyone here loves this community and your desire for it not to change however from what I've gathered from all the information is primarily most of the concerns are about existing traffic and noise that are per requ Quest really has nothing to do with um however we heard what you said we edited down our ask in order to appease our neighbors I thought perhaps with all the back and forth I could clarify some questions that have come up just to be clear we will have no music not Amplified music no speaker no live music no music none no events I know it was listed in there no large events but it's no events large small otherwise no size All We Are asking for is the 48 hours to be open for people restaurant owners friends family other people to come taste the L on our property and see the land where we grow pick bottle and sell it that's it 48 Hours a year I looked up the definition of a Farm Winery just to be clear because I think there's been a lot of confusion between farm wiery and agricultural entertainment which we are not asking for nor will we ever for our property isn't large enough to have that large amount of people nor do we want to do that ever ever ever ever so Farm Winery is a winery operated by the owner of a Minnesota farm that produces table sparkling or fortified lines from grapes grape juice or the fruit bases or honey with the majority of the ingredients grown or produced in Minnesota and that's from Southern Minnesota statute 34811 subdivisional woman just to be clear again we are asking for a Farm Winery permit and for the Farm Winery to be open four weekends a year the last weekend in August next consecutive three weekends in September 12 to 6 Saturday and Sunday 48 hours per year by app pointment only we will regulate this all reservations will be online we only let however 25 people on the property at a time two hours at a time 12 to 2 2 4 4 to 6 so that people have time to drink their two glasses of wine vacate the property and then we can let more people on the property um the concerns that we've seen over and over again um some of them written in the letters the load on our sewer and septic um there concerns about wine making process um and it's I guess whatever whatever sorry the wine making process does not use large amounts of water that was the concern or chemical for that matter even our cleaners are labeled food safe by the FDA so there's nothing there to create end problems for anyone around us the only irrigation we even use is for the apple trees we have 500 apple trees they're very small and I would guess that it's the water we use is only a fraction of what it takes to water a small residential lawn over the course of the summer I think we probably water maybe five or six times a year and it's through a drip line so it's very small I'll H Noise We Barry my husband has conducted deciel tests on the property because of the concerns using um 50 people as like a baseline meting the noise of 50 people on our property we will only have 25 people at one time at 50 people the B the measurement was 85 to 90 DB of noise even when you're outside on our property and there's nothing that we're doing it's at like 45 just to give you a frame of reference um when we went 200 ft away from our main patio area nothing was even detectable I know that the mcgall are behind us and they're concerned about the noise they live about a mile away from us by road but they're directly behind us about approximately 1,400 ft through swamp horse barns and woods I find it really difficult to think that the no music no noise 25 people would even be detectable on their property The Vineyard House completely Shields their property from the courtyard where we would sit outside or the Press Barn where people would potentially sit um alcohol our two glasses of wine in two hours I mean we have to follow all of Minnesota and federal Reg ation for any alcohol that we serve um I would hope that that's not enough to make any problems for anyone around uh we just want the opportunity to share our small family farm with a select number of visitors in order to allow them to taste the wine that we intend to grow Harvest process bottle and sell on our beautiful farm for 48 hours of beer the reasoning behind choosing the last weekend in August and the next three weekends in September and also and had question that that they were our best weekends of the year I guess that is one person's opinion I like to think that we have a lot more nice weekends but um anyway I guess they were just because they were chosen because it's the most beautiful time for us out there that's when we Harvest things and and when there's you know all the vines are full of grapes and the apple trees are full of apples it's it's magical it's just fun to be able to think of sharing it with people um the wine making requirements from the state of Minnesota and the federal government will be met their inspections to assure compliance this is just our first step if this goes through then we still have to go through the state and the feds and it's a long long process it's probably many many months out we will never be able to plant more Vines this is not a commercial um property we are a small family farm that wants to sell its produce suon the form of wine and just so you know anyone who's ever driven past there and I know a lot of people do because a busy road Barry is primarily 99% of the time the only person out there he's pruning the plants he fertilizes the plants he goes through the entire Vineyard and removes all the suckers and and and makes sure every plant is trained perfectly every year so that it's healthy and happy out there in the sunshine no one even knows this but he sits up there on his on his porch and looks out over the whole Vineyard and he's he's showing me before and he's going to laugh at me but he's like I just imagine my heart like exploding over the whole Vineyard and sharing all of my love with the vineyard and I swear it works because he grows a lot of grapes and it's such a lovely place anyway he does that he harvests The Grapes he does all the testing to determine whether the vineyard is ready to harvest or not he processes the grapes and this is just for the small home home wine making that we do now he I don't know if youve noticed but he built an ancient wine press on the property it's like from Jesus's ttimes like that's how old this this this technology is and you can't even explain it until you see it it's not just a press it's a lever and it's complicated and it's cool he we can probably ask questions if we have questions regarding How It's Made I'm sorry that's not really necessarily that I understand but I it's really exci so anyway it's one farmer doing all of this Zoe his daughter and I maybe help him like 10 hours a year literally he does it all himself and I know that's irrelevant but it's not going to be a commercial operation there is no possible way we have no plans to hire employees and I just I hope that everyone understands clearly what our intentions are because I think there's been a lot of confusion and I just wanted to I don't know clear that up a little bit and make sure that everyone understood sure thank you thank you yeah thank you all right um any questions of the applicant we can always come back to that but um so I'm going to take comments at this time again I'm going to ask that you be Peter I'm sorry did you have one question in your application you mentioned growing flowers and and pumpkins uh is that under that same 48 hours that people would be coming okay thank you so so people can drive up anytime and buy flowers or just during the just like any other okay can I just ask a question um you said 48 hours but it's not really 48 hours it's six weekends right or four four weekends four weekends and um how do you police how many glasses of wine each person is drinking it's only two it's only people oner at timey and you know we're selling Mr treble could I ask that you come to here otherwise it's hard to hear on the recording bar treble 333 Z Highland Road um I guess um you know we could have flags on our on our when we take the order or process the the order for I think okay any any other questions all right we can again if we have more that come up we can certainly ask you that all right so again um I'm going to start on this side um first row if you wish to make a comment okay so we're going to go to the second row come forward if you'd like and state your name and address for the record my name is Judy nor and I'm at 8300 Hallstead Drive I didn't write a second letter after the first Planning Commission because I felt like I was too emotional I guess too invested in the whole concerns that I had and so I spoke at the second Planning Commission but I would like to read just a couple thoughts I had I want to thank you for the opportunity to be heard but you know we heard a enormous amount about uh Mr treble character his vision and all the things that he wants to do well we all have visions we all have Charities we donate to we all have the same Visions for our property and things and you know it's just so irrelevant because what we're interested in is the change of land we're not interested in the Nitty Gritty little I at least I'm not so here's what I WR never in the 26 years 26 years I've lived on that property have I ever made a complaint or called about anything I am not in the habit of causing trouble or rocking the boat I'm not interested in causing any division of neighbors we respect and have always gotten along with I nearly have a need to have my voice be heard about an issue I am deeply concerned about I believe that the whole emphasis should be on not allowing a c a cup land use change that changes the existing rural area to become more commercial retail one with events that's what we were originally told is Paramount it's the par it's the most concerning thing I have is about the change of Lo use land use the residential yet open rural areas as it exists now better represents what the comprehensive plan were foursided individuals worked long hours to produce a plan which would keep mines to the sought after and desirable place to live that it is now we have a Prairie Reserve right down the road from us it has walking trails it has places to meditate it is in keeping with the Minista idea of Rural Life a cup with conditions will not accomplish that goal put forth in the plan for 2040 the cup would open the door for advancement advancement of commercialization and event atmospheres the city I mean it's an event when you have 25 people come and taste wine to me that's an event um I know they said no events but do them to me the city talks about conditions which would be monitored the only only monitoring I have heard is the burden would be placed on neighbors who live here we should not be required to make complaints after the fact which go nowhere by the way prevention makes more sense once again I would emphasize that we live here and Mr treble resides nowhere in Min Trista we are your constituents and lastly I would ask who has monitored what Mr treble sprays every time he mols he told my husband I spray something every single time I'm old well what's he spraying is it harmful to the bees in the environment has anybody checked does it require a chemical license by the Department of Agriculture how are those chemicals disposed of we haven't had answers to any of these questions and thank you for thank you Miss norling is there anybody else in the second role um Steve Roman 8155 F thank you for talk I appreciate it I will keep it very quick because I was part of writing letters and you guys have heard my concerns already my wife's also um quickly the areas of concern um noise big time uh we heard um and you've heard you've seen the letters um we know how the sound carries in our area so noise is of utmost concern to us uh traffic it is um a big concern uh on our road on 110 and uh especially on island uh people drinking and driving um that is uh something that's not consistent with a neighborhood um we're worried about that um commercial use of the land just doesn't seem to fit with a neighborhood in the way the place is laid out um Judy spoke very uh eloquently to that and I that um the another concern we have is once uh requirements are put in place how they are enforced U Judy also talked about that and I wondered you know if if if there is noise how do we uh uh how do we make the complaint and how do we get that enforce and is there any um action that is enforceable after something happens um the uh s mentioned um that the chemicals used uh for wine use uh for the winery are okay for a septic system they are not the of the county um sewer and septic told me that any wi has to have a separate uh system to collect any runoff from the wine making process uh because the chemicals will row in a septic system and they cannot reach into the ground so that has to be addressed as well um two more things quickly I don't know why this process played out the way it did um normally if I were to build something on my property I go and get a permit first if I have a fire to burn brush in my property I go get it first I don't do it after the pile's been burned I don't do it after I build my my structure so I don't know why this U indal use permit but the uh was sought after the winery was up and running and built um the last thing is that a vast majority of our neighbors just don't want this and in so thank you thank you Mr Roman anybody else mayor council me members and staff George norling 8300 H Drive I'm sure you've all read my May 22nd letter regarding minust to comprehensive plan and uh land use zoning regulations so to be respectful of everyone's time I will just point out a couple things in my letter and I'll start with the comprehensive plan developed by the city over several years of extensive analysis and planning is critical although the tendency maybe you simply look at the current zoning code applicable to Mr trel's property to see if this proposed land use change be allowed that would be chapter 50529 subdivision 4 it is equally if not more important to be sure that the intended use will be consistent and supported by the comprehensive long-term plan which is the focus for 2040 in further review the agriculture preserve District 50529 culture District 50531 land use and Zone regulations in the descriptions in subdivision one a b CDE e f and I attached copies to the letters that I furnish to you a to include areas necessary and desirable to preserve promote maintain and enhance the use of the land for longterm term agricultural purposes e protecting and maintaining open space for the creation of an attractive living environment F to preserve protect and maintain unique rural lifestyle your attention further directed to B protect areas from encroachment by non-agricultural use structures and activities I underlined activities I question how the existing agriculture activity growing grapes and other fruit which does fit with a rural agriculture neighborhood now is to be significantly expanded by permitting retail sales public events on and off alcohol sale consumption and use such expansion results in a misfit to the existing rural agriculture neighborhood and I'll jump ahead to be respectful of your time thank you Mr nerling I consider our current elected appointed officials as the vision oriented Foundation decision makers that are described in the comprehensive plan to evaluate the cup proposal and pay special attention to land use change that attaches to the property it attaches to the property forever it's not not a take put on and take off deal Mr uh treble growing grapes is totally the thing that I think is good for the property the retail sales and everything else that goes along with it and the conditional use permit the the uh cup that is attached to the property is goes forever it's not just on and off deal and it's almost impossible to take it off without a legal action resident residen and preservation of the rural neighborhood should be the best interest of our city officials not a non-resident proposing a commercial business or residing elsewhere this does not fit the neighborhood and the neighborhood does not want it I think that's pretty clear after two Planning Commission meetings and we pretty much beat everything to death over and over again and letters and comments the neighborhood does not want it it doesn't fit neighborhood thank you thank you Mr nerling is there any thank you thank you hi I'm Randy McAllen 8100 fad um been up here multiple times with the other committee but you guys have gotten letters and whatnot but uh I think that what is important is that if you have a vision to do something with a piece of prop property find out what your um what is allowed prior to doing it so again you've heard it over and over from us the P cart before the horse should have found out exactly what is it that is permissible uh and then maybe try to do it not build it and then ask for permission um we are a rural residential area we all have a fair amount of property we love it out there it's beautiful it's quiet um and we want to keep it that way um I'm sure it grows in time we get more traffic but for the most part we want to keep it that way what's hard is that every time an issue comes up um it seems like he changes his story and then we're not sure okay are we going to believe that one or is he going to do a different one and then it it keeps going on like that and I just don't um you know even the wine If you eliminate that and then you got people coming and going for the flowers or the apples or whatever um if you want to grow grapes s into a winery go for it even if you can make your wine uh without any impact on the other residents uh in the land fine but don't sell it there have people do it online you can mail it to them you can sell it to restaurants but you don't need to take our four beautiful weekends we get in Min in Minnesota uh to do this you know tasting and and wine drinking on the property um and I will agree with Sarah I do live it's kind of like a bowl that comes down I live right there I don't touch her property but I see all the way up and everything there um as it stands with no people running around pretty um I'm a little offended by the swamp we have wet Lings that's what we like to call them not swamps um and yes we have a barn but that's almost hidden the thing she's seeing is the arena it's fine structure uh and yes we have some trees but not enough trees to block that bowl that goes up there so we all came here for some reason and whether it was for the was it was for to have our animals was it to have a better school district whatever we came for a reason and thought that we had no concerns that it would change and it's it's not a it's a residential area and the concern is if you do that building across 110 that development it can be inside a little residential bubble which doesn't seem to make much sense to me anyway um I won't keep you anymore uh we've been this left with four times now um that we've been coming and and trying to say our piece but I I I don't wish him ill will I I wish him well but it's just not the right project for this place thank you thank you miss you being here is there anybody else um next role at F 3585 Highland Road I'm going to be the quickest tonight um it gives me no pleasure to go against Barry's plans he is a nice guy I like him for what I know about uh would like you to consider with regards to the area traffic Highland is already bursting it's a Speedway get on the ball um across Highland is a stage development District Nick explained it last time but I also looked it up and it's basically for future development it's planned to be probably some more 10 acre homesteads right across and Highland is already bursting my only concern is for you guys to consider that in the medium longterm future that's also going to be developed it's planned to be developed for that purpose um a lot of people talk about the traffic it is an issue it is an issue up and I'm a little concerned you know the 48 Hours yeah not pretty minimal but he's open for apple picking he's open for flowers he'll be open for pumpkins that is traffic like I said at the other meeting um last week week if you have a glass of water that's full and you add a drop you'll notice it and that's how I describe the traffic on Highland thank you thank you Mr fost anybody else on this side Sonia F [Music] 3585 mayor council members employes I want to thank you for your time tonight all the time that you spent reading our letters and the consideration you're giving to the impact this application will have on us neighbors I want you to know this is not a light matter in their neighborhood we many people du to schedules and such that are very much against this in fact we have a petition with very little effort of over 40 people that have signed it that are not support of the change in the condition use so we are concerned that it's taken its toll on the neighborhood after much thought discussion time research I believe the permit should not be approved the bottom line is that this is a land use change and although the changes appear to be minimal the ramifications going forward are not minimal the cup stays with the property in perpetuity and I do not believe that a 10 acre Winery surrounded by land unlike other others that I do comparisons to last week those are also they have a lake on one side much more acreage what we have here is I do not believe that this 10 acre Winery fits nor belongs and a residential area yes we agree it is a beautiful property and buried in a very what he did and yes we agree that Mr treble is a nice guy who made an investment in his property However the fact is at the end of the day investment is not a reason for land use change each of us here everyone we have made substantial investments in our properties with a permit first unfortunately as my neighbor said the was the head of the horse in this matter and I do not believe it is in the city's best interest to set this precedence after reading the cups and doing great research from the neighboring wineries it came to light that what was written for this cup was not up to the same or similar standards with the other wineries um and those wineries from everyone I talked to and I talked to a lot of people um were all described as good players they communicated they let people know what's going on they tried to work with them even try to one day try to close a road so the neighbors wouldn't have the traffic in front of them but even with all that noise and traffic continue to be an issue with those wineries this cup is Big it lacks details appears to have a lack of forethought or answers on how to actually Implement some of the ch the commission recommended and the controls that need to be successful I won't go into details like they did last time but just briefly if you look at these other ones it talks about how many employees and hours and just great detail but we already did that so um tonight we found out a little bit more even walking in here tonight we didn't know when the flower picking was going to happen picking or this or that all we heard about was the 48 hours so yes there will be more traffic there will be more activity on that corner with the activities of the flower picking and other cers I'm sure we can all agree that the goal for this property was intended as a business venture and not a homesteaded residential home based again on all the facts that were presented last week I believe there should be great importance on the level of DET in any cup that comes before you to also set a good precedence given that I ask each of you to consider how this immediately affects us neighbors who live right here we are not a non-resident business owner we are the neighbors who here live and see the noise the noise that can that does relate to alcohol and potential safety concerns to our pedestrians to our bikers to our horseback Riders our children I do recognize that Mr trouble has limited his application and I appreciate that but we cannot say with certainty with other what other future plans he may hold as my neighbor said the story has changed throughout the process we can't say tonight that this will never ever have us back here in your Chambers I also ask you to consider how this application contradicts nr's comprehensive plan and the impact a decision to change this plan affects the future of our beautiful quiet community that we are all proud to call our home thank you thank you Miss B um anybody else in in the back there otherwise I'll um I'll go over to this side anybody over here wishing to speak hi I'm Larry Alman Patty Alman and Joshua Alman we live at 3450 Highland Road we also own the property right next to uh Barry which is 3404 Island Ro um we are the closest home to Barry and Sarah on the south side of 110 uh there's another home just across the highway that's close to Barry and Sarah um we feel that he has beautified the property has built a a small farm operation using grapes and other uh farm products and the size of that property would in my opinion not change the traffic we're talking 20 people every two hours uh we have Patty and I built our home uh in 1994 so we've been residents of Minista for 30 years um we've seen lots of changes in 30 years there were hardly any homes where we are there wasn't uh Turtle Creek or all these other things so traffic has changed everywhere in the Metro traffic has changed Highway 7 traffic has changed 110 change happen happens we're not going to stop change but through the hard work of the mayor the councel and staff you guys have kept the rural nature of Minista and have uh made it a community that its residents can be proud of and I feel that way uh I think this rural small Vineyard is an improvement to Minista and I've seen other communities and cities where planning commissions and councils want to stop any kind of development or businesses that are coming in and this is really a business that isn't really a big commercial or retail operation it's a farm all he wants to do is be able to sell his product to let other people share in the finished product which I have to tell you is very good if you haven't tried his wine you should um and the yield on his grapes is one of the I mean compared to other Vineyards that grow grapes that he sells his grapes to his yield is two to three times the yield of uh these other Vineyards so he's just a tremendous farmer and his wife Sarah's a great designer they made something beautiful and want to share it with other residents of Minista and bring bring other people into Minista to see what kind of community it is and that in my opinion is what you're trying to do is make it even a better community and I think Sarah and Barry and their uh second residents which we they are our neighbors uh even though it's not Homestead they're it appears as though they're there more than their other residents in excelsia um and we share wine with them and um they should have the opportunity to share what they produce no different than other Farmers that are selling things uh uh if you want to call it retail uh by a sign out front for eggs hay whatever or people that have a business running through their home uh that isn't necessarily um promoted uh by a sign outside or anything but there's traffic that people have when they have have uh their customers or clients come to their home um and anyone is open to do that without giving a conditional use permit unless you're selling alcohol or some kind of so-called legal controlled substance so thank you for your consideration and uh I hope that you can let them share their product thank you Mr Alman um anybody else second row anybody okay Bonnie P singer um 3500 Highland Road um I'm just I I don't I'm compelled to tell you that I grew up on the land that is Barry's Vineyard now helping my dad in the fields that are now this beautiful Vineyard um and then for the past 30 years uh I've lived on part of that farm um after Dad subdivided it uh we have one of the Lots next to the Altman so we so ironically the people that really have the land closest to the proposed Vineyard or the proposed Farm Winery have the don't oppose it I we have our son lives across the road from from a CFT 110 and we live two lots away and um uh we we think it would enhance the land I I love the land very much and it's my opinion that the Farm Winery would enhance the neighborhood I appreciate what Barry has done with his property so far and I don't feel like he's put the horse in front of the cart at all it's been a a wonderful evolution and I also believe that his sweat is a big part of the land just like my grandpa's and my dad's sweat went into the land and even though he doesn't sleep there I appreciate him and respect him as a neighbor just as much as I appreciate and respect my other neighbors um the traffic is has we've lived there for 30 years so there's been a lot of increase in traffic but I'm not conc concerned about the traffic increase with the Farm Winery and as far as the noise um I'm a nature lover and my husband and I both spent a lot of time outside and it occurred to me while working in my garden this past week that my awareness of noise in the neighborhood has been heightened and there's a there's a lot of noise out there there's lawnmowers there's pickups with loud mufflers there's dirt bites and there's motorcycles with blaring radios there's farm machinery the there the baseball game in St Bonnie it's crazy how loud that how that can carry but you know hey it's it's life the um uh actually I have a loud voice and I'm sure you guys hear me out there uh it's it's all it's all there's noises that we live with on a daily basis that are actually more disturbing to the Tranquility of of the neighborhood than the voices and laughter of folks enjoying two glasses of wine 8 days out of the year and I realize that this conditional use permit is going to stay with the land but I also realize that the conditions will stay with it too and so it'll be whoever evolves into this land they'll have a conditional use permit that it allows them eight days out of the year and they'll have to come back through all of this if they want to change that and I and I I'm comfortable with that and I just want you to know that um I think that Barry and Sarah's request is reasonable and I believe that they are folks with integrity and my husband and I both support the conditional youth permit that they're applying for and thank you for serving our community thank you Miss ging Cher anybody else thank you guys for your time my name is Zoe treble I'm Barry's daughter um 3330 Highland by or Highland Road sorry um so I just wanted to say that I've been here this entire process while my dad first had the idea of making this property into a Vineyard in the very first place and he's always dreamed of it being a very intimate thing it has never you know been intended to be a big thing he is just a Craftman or yeah he's an artist and he has everything he's ever touched has turned to Gold basically so I don't think he's ever put the cart before the horse this is just who he is he loves to build things and he loves taking care of his plants he's a farmer and I am just in full support of whatever he wants to do because I know his heart and I know that he's a good person and he's going to do good things with the property and he genuinely really cares about what people think and that's why he's changed what he's wanted to do with it so much throughout this process so that everyone feels heard and he would invite everyone on the property to be friends because he just genuinely cares about people so I just wanted to say that um thank you guys for your time thank you Miss treble anybody else hello my name is Mary Beth Ginger I live at 82000 County Road 110 West that's the property that's directly across the street from B um our property is a 17 acre lot on the corner of Highland Road in County Road 110 and our house it's about 50 ft away from the county road it's very close and so when we look out the front of our house all we see is Barry's property which is amazing I love that um I attended the first meeting in April regarding the fair's conditional use permit to gather more information for my family and to hear the concerns of my neighbors after LIF listening to the information and the views that were presented at the meeting we took time to consider our own position I sent you all an email which stated that Dusty and I along with our in-laws douan Bon G singer of Three Z Highland Road support fa's conditional use permit and I'd like to reiterate that tonight I believe he's asking to use his land in a very reasonable way that would only enhance our neighborhood especially with the changes that he's made to his proposal by only being open 8 days a year with no music at all I can't imagine the Farm Winery would cause any extra noise or a noticeable increase in traffic I can speak to the enforcement of noise violations in our area I had my wedding at at 85 I mean sorry 3500 my in-law's um property in 2016 and the police came at 10 p.m. because there was a complaint in the neighborhood um it was quite the welcome like we had just bought the property and then our wedding got shut down but I respect it it was loud it was Amplified music that's fine um but needless to say the complaint was taken seriously and we had to stop the music and the police came um like our neighbors we would not be able to support Barry if he sought to turn his property into a large event or wedding venue which he has expressed he does not want to do thankfully he'd have to go through this exact same process with a new conditional use permit to change the way his Farm Winery operates this gives us peace of mind knowing that what is approved will be the extent of the Farm Winery without encroachment beyond that in the seven years that we've known Barry he has been nothing but considerate friendly and honest he clearly loves the land and producing beautiful things we love having him as a neighbor and we believe um he has the right to pursue the things that bring him Joy on his property we value our property a lot just like our neighbors and we don't take the formation of our opinion lightly Dusty's great-grandparents bought our farm 100 years ago in the 1920s and our house was built 30 years before that um Dusty's Great Grandpa died unexpectedly in his 30s and his great brother grandmother Mary kept the farm as a single mother with four little ones through Great Depression Dusty was incredibly close to his grandma and grandpa Barrett spending much of his childhood on our current property our children are the fifth generation of Dusty's family to live on our farm and our son is named Barrett in honor of the G and love of the Barrett family many of the or several of the Lots our neighbors live on including berries was once part of the Barrett Farm we feel we are uniquely invested in this discussion because of the family history of our property and our very close proximity to the trouble property we feel confident that we are honoring the generations before us by supporting Barry and we believe that the bar the barretts that watch over us would support the too we are really peaceful people so it's hard to feel like we are in conflict with some of our neighbors um over the conditional use permit we think it's important to be able to agree to disagree sometimes and we respectfully disagree with their opinions but that does not change how we feel about them as people we hope that although we disagree with our ERS they will extend the same respect to us thank you so much for your time and effort that you put into overseeing our community thank you Miss Ginger anybody else all right um no you've already made your comments I'm not going to do double time here sorry if we have questions then we'll we'll get to you too um so uh now I'm going to take it back to council do you have any further questions of Staff or the applicant okay yeah I do okay David on page 126 okay and it's um subdivision for conditional uses okay what's the legal definition of a Farm Winery sorry um well it's the state the state stat we we copy with the state statute it's directly from the state okay when we adopted the farm wire use it's it's Verbatim what the state has adopted so okay so is there a difference between that and a farmed Vineyard and what Mr TR wants to do well I think that's open for interpretation that at uh it's it's ambiguous in how it's written it's obviously while you're answering the question the eye would be in the beholder okay Sarah do you have any comment Madam mayor members of the council the statute that David's referring to is 348 315 that's the F firm Winery license so that's in the liquor statutes and um basically it's talking about selling W um wine that has been grown on a farm and there's certain types of of grapes that have to be used um it has to be Minnesota producer grown grapes can't be you can't be trucking them in from somewhere else and um it's basically governing the sale of the wine to the public so he would need to get this fine Farm Winery liquor license in addition to the conditional use permit that allows him to operate the Farm Winery on the property there's the land use and then there's the business license and so even if he didn't sell retail on site he would still need a liquor license and approval from the state uh M mayor of the council I don't think he would need a liquor license if he's not selling the wine at retail that's kind of what triggers this whole process he can grow the grapes and make the wine you know just like a farmer would do with any other agricultural type product but once he starts selling it to the public that's when this both the cup and the farm wiering license are okay triggered okay public you mean like a business wholesaler any any sales correct yes okay is there is there a difference between selling the bottles of wine and having off sale like pouring the wine and drink is that two different licenses St like a wine bar kind of versus just selling the bottled wine U Madam mayor remember like the council it looks like it's kind of both on sale and off sale okay so the on sale is allowed so that's what he's proposing to do but then he's also permitted to sell at off sale okay okay I have some questions okay so um it's my understanding that the um Planning Commission said 25 cars um and you're saying saying um correct me if I'm wrong that you're going to be taking um um people would call in and make a reservation so you be taking reservations every two hours so 25 cars every two hours could potentially be 75 cars with two people to four people per car you're looking at 150 to 250 people per per weekend is basically well you might be shaking your head but I'm just running the numbers I I just per weekend correct so you're you're you're right so when you say 25 cars again when you run the numbers for the number of hours with the number of people we're talking 150 to 250 people I mean well is it 25 cars or 25 custom well the Planning Commission said 25 cars probably never okay so you're saying 25 customers every two hours okay um I I I don't think that any of us would I think there's a few things here I don't think any of us would say that you've made this property less beautiful I think there's it's quite obvious it's it's very beautiful very nice I don't think any of us are going to um question that or say that it's not I think the real only issue here is whether or not you should be allowed to sell retail at this location and I think that's that's the hangup and I have several concerns the um one of the concerns is and the biggest concern that I have is enforcement how in the heck are we going to know that there's going to be 25 people here or less there is just no way for the city to be able to count the number of people that are there nor would we want to do that we do not want to be in the business of telling a retailer a commercial Enterprise how many people can be on their property and how many how much you can sell that's that's just a nightmare waiting to happen so either it's all out and you can do whatever number you want or the city says no I I don't see I don't see a middle ground here because I know we've gone through this before with other other cups and know um and and it's impossible to enforce because we have no right to go onto your property and count the number of people that are there unless there's some proof that you're not abiding by the conditions and we went through this with a um with a um halfway house and they wanted so many people to be able to live there and we said and we and because of federal law we had to allow it and we said we're going to restrict to eight people but there's no way there's no way we know that there's only eight people there and so to enforce that is a nightmare and that's what this could become too and when you say you know 25 people even 25 people times 6 hours I mean there's 75 people every six every well more than that 600 yeah so it's a lot of extra people it's it's not just a couple it's not just your family because you can quite honestly invite your neighbors in and they can sit down with you and have a glass of wine you can invite your family over they can sit down and have a glass of wine with you I don't think your neighbors or anybody here would want to prohibit you from doing that my other concern is and and again I it's a beautiful property it's a wonderful idea I don't believe that this location is the the best location here's why nobody has mentioned this and I am very concerned about this and that is your driveway how close it's located to County Road 110 I've driven that and I've gone whoa if I have to stop and wait for traffic in order to turn into your driveway that's an accident waiting to happen especially if you have people coming and going and coming and going I I do think that's an issue um I I don't I think the other thing is when you add in because now we're finding out for the first time that you also are going to be selling flowers pumpkins and apple sales add that to the mix of the 25 people that are going to be there for for the wine tasting how again there's no way we can we can we can control this there's just no way so um I'm concerned I want to answer from our attorney can you explain or David can you explain the difference between an iup and a cup because we' we've already known you know cops run with the land in perpetuity so tell us what an IOP or what the difference might be uh Madame mayor members of the council as you just stated an I cup is it runs at the land so if the property changes hands and somebody else owns it they also have that cup so they could do their own you might say well I really like what Barry is doing like his operation well somebody else could take it over and run it a different way but they are subject to all the conditions that you put on it and they can't change those unless they come back and ask for an amendment and you can't change them either so unless they agree to change them um so that's kind of you're kind of stuck with whatever conditions you put on it today unless there's an agreement on both parties to change those um it can be revoked so if there's a violation of the conditions you can give them notice and have a Ing and revoke the cup so you can take it away from them but obviously you'd want to make sure that there are actual documented violations of the cup iup is pretty much the same as a cup but it's an interm use permit so that means it's usually for a period of time or a period of ownership so it has kind of an expiration date so it doesn't go forever it just goes for a period of time and then it expires and that's usually used for things that kind of no longer work anymore like mining you know you might mine the P property and eventually run out of things to mine and then you don't need a mining cup there anymore you just need iup because your use is done so they're kind of used for the more temporary type uses as opposed to a cup okay they have conditions as well and same thing you can amend or thank you roke um again so then I have a question for Mr treble what do you have about three acres and grapes two acres and grapes okay and so um um how much how many pounds of grapes do you usually our best Harvest is 1,000 grapes and our app we don't well you don't make wine with that well yeah so 17,000 lb and it takes about 2 and a half pounds to make a bottle of wine yeah more like three or four pound depending on the wi the the the grapes so you're producing around 6,000 bottles of wine a year yes okay so you already are figuring out how else you're going to be selling your product I mean you can't sell 6,000 bottles to in four weeks right so um we uh we sell most of our greatest s States that's where the main part of our go we only small am in relation a micro wiy is considered a thousand a th cases of 12,000 bottles could we could only ever produce half of what a micro do which kind of limits us in a way we could only ever be a very small operation which is all we've ever but nonetheless I understand but my my comment is there's no way even if you did 6,000 bottles a year um that you could sell all those bottles during your wine tasting that would never happen so you have to have another venue another Outlet so you're going to be selling to uh grocery stores or well I'm not here uh Liquor Stores um possibly um restaurants for being open for those eight days is so that we can invite restaurant owners and you know small wine um uh stores we can invite them over and have wine casings on our property so that they can see our process how we make the wine and then hopefully build relationships with them to sell the wine throughout the year and that way we won't have many people on our property we can keep this real small small family farm little operation here without okay that's a little but that's quite different that's quite different from what we've been what we understand you want to do um if it's if you just want to invite liquor owners or restaurant owners in to taste your wine so that they'll buy it would he even need a cup for that because he's not really selling it just open up the wine and give it to him right I'm asking I don't know that he would need a cup for that mam mayor members of the council I think he would okay um because you know it says f it says Farm wiery in our code okay and then if you look at the definition of Farm Winery under the statute it talks about you know selling the wine at on sale or offsale in retail or wholesale so I think it's the selling of the wine that's the issue but if he doesn't sell it on making it and selling the product to someone else even somebody's lying right okay but what I'm saying is then I think the sampling part as the sampling part is is the it says in sampling okay as well all right CU this that it's whole different spin if you will if you invite I mean there's how many I mean how many liquor store owners or how many restaurant owners would you be you know inviting in probably you know yeah a Max a 25 right every two hours um so it it to me the story is changing a little bit um because you we're saying family and friends and neighbors is who you would be inviting and you would be taking reservations over the Internet so that's that's a little different okay yeah um at the Planning Commission meeting um some of the Planning Commission people brought up this thing about how Farms here are allowed to sell whatever they have honey whatever they have they're allowed to sell it does that fit into this same thing because they don't all have conditional use permits do they no but that's what they were just saying thing so that he can sell flowers he can sell pumpkins he can sell apples without a c he doesn't need it but he does need a cup for a wine for a Farm Winery and so we could issue a cup for a Farm Winery where he can grow grapes he can he can Harvest his grapes he can make the wine there and then he can ship it off that would be one option the other option is what he's asking for is to add the addition of being able to serve and have certain time frames open he can serve the public and sell wine on site that's the difference well okay correct me if I'm wrong I'm under the impression that he wants to be able to invite restaurant owners and stores and whatever to come and see his Vineyard and then be able to taste the wine on the on the property does that require the cup yes yes it does even if he doesn't sell it to them then they well if I have friends to come over and I've made lemon cello and I want them to just taste it I don't have to have a cup I I'm I mean if they're just coming over it's because he even if they don't buy a bottle there he's wholesaling selling it I can't talk to other people the cup covers everything so they can sell it in any capacity not just people coming on site so if you own a restaurant want to go out and taste it get your two glasses and you're like I want to buy 60 bottles of this for my business he needs a cup to do this M oh he needs the actual cup the C right so the cup any capacity but the cup can state that he can grow it he can Harvest it he can make his wine there he can invite people in but he can't have a tasting room or he can't invite the public in so that's one option okay um okay I mean it he's not going to invite 25 restaurant owners in at a time I mean so but and in State Statute in our ordinance says that he is allowed to have a Farm Winery is that correct so we we have to provide a cup for the Farm Winery is that correct Sarah uh Madame mayor members of the council he if he wants to sell the wine he needs a Farm Winery license if he wants that license for our zoning code he needs a you right but it's allowed and because it's an allowable use in this zoning we we're kind are we obligated to provide that only if you believe the conditions are being are going to be met and they're reasonable conditions okay what if he doesn't want to sell his wine and he wants to have eight parties and invite people over to drink his wine he can do that without a c that's what I'm saying I mean I have eight parties the summer and 50 people a th so I just I really want to be clear it's the selling selling but because he makes it and he's going to want to sell it somewhere let's say he only wants to sell it at the liquor store next to mckin he can't have these people come and just have a couple glasses of wine on his house like you would come to my house or the mayor's he can you just can't sell the wine selling the wine yeah so so to date you've only been selling the grapes you haven't sold any bottles of wine we've just been I think you're only allowed 200 yeah okay but you sell your grapes you sell the grapes yes okay does he need to see he doesn't need to see no not not for the so we're back to the retail sale sale of the bottles M right one now so you could say well you could say wholesale or retail either one I mean he could go to Mac and tunes and and say hey let me set up a table here and sell my wine directly to your customers and that would be retail he could go to you can do that no not without a cop without a cop it there and sells it yeah so I guess so let's kind of wrap this thing up so there's two things and I think what the neighbors are saying and that not some of the neighbors not all of them but that some of the neighbors are saying is they don't have a problem with him growing the grapes and making his wine and and shipping it offsite okay and he could he needs a cup for that okay but he's asking to grow The Grapes to make the wine and to have these four weeks open with weekends yeah four four weekends open and have people come and taste and buy the wine on site that's that's the part that is the sticking point okay but is he doing that we need to ask no he's not doing that currently is he doing is he asking this yes because that's what he knows to ask for maybe option the option you're proposing is the one that would work and it would work because he could do tastings at a local restaurant you could do that um to promote your wines you could do tastings at liquor stores um to to promote your wines that's done all over and if he wants to have people out there he can have people out there he just can't sell the wine from there or drink it yeah can't open it or taste it I think right I and do not buy wine from local Growers I would assume most people who buy it for a restaurant nowadays go out to the site to see how it's made and what the environment is that it's grown in okay I don't not necessarily but yeah because they have to meet certain Health standards and certain procedures that they have to go through in order to be deemed a wine if you will okay so okay so back to this so you came down to the number of hours and days you want to be open but the true reality of it is you want to be able to sell your wine to restaurants and whatever and nobody really cares about the hours the only reason that you're doing the hours has to do with the neighbors who don't want the noise or the traffic right well that's for the wine tasting well I I don't know whether there has to be a wine tasting there well that's what we're what we trying to get yes right right I think it's very important to have the people out there to see how we grow it specifically how we press how we um our manufacturing process for the wine itself because it's really and it's and it's not like anybody else and I think that's what's going to sell our mind and so to have that opportunity though those eight days is GNA help us to sell our line to basically but you you don't need those specific eight days to do that need those specific eight days what if you what if you had and doesn't and he doesn't need a cup either does he yes he does he need a cup he wants to be able to sell his product he has inter thing can't we just issue an interim well he didn't apply for an interim no and that's currently not allowed by code yeah you'd have to yeah so great thank you um Kathleen I think it's realistic if we're going to allow him to sell it to any business that those people get to come out at some point and see the profit process I've I've been to wineries a Napa the wine makers there love showing you how it works where it goes what they do with all of it it's like their pride and joy no different than if you have a horse farm people might want to come out and see the horses the difference is between horses and wine is you taste the wine obviously but it'd be like offering a cup to a HSE saying sorry you can't ride the horse like this is part of making wine at this property the problem that we get into there is there's no way of controlling it then and there's no way of enforcing it now he could invite them out to show them his facilities you know and like I said there's going to be you know if you want to you know there's going to be a handful of people that he's going to have out maybe periodically but it's not going to be regulated um for these four weekends these these hours that's more for the wine tasting on site so if if a cup for the winery is is issued then he can figure out how he's going to run his Winery but I think it needs to be clear that it's not going to be open to the public if if that's what the council wishes it's not going to be open to the public to come and taste the wines and for him to sell the wines on site he's going to be selling them but they're going to be going to the restaurants or going to the liquor store or the the warehouses so and and they can come out and they can see how he operates and how he does things he can that can be part of the the cup so you would do it with no restrictions on the hours and he can just invite people whenever he wants he just can't let them taste apparently which I've never heard of in my entire life I've been to 16 bilon Vineyards in California and all over but it's because you're the public I am the public yeah and that he's saying he wants to be able to invite liquor store owners or um restaurant owners out he you can say you don't invite the public also and do online sales and that sort of thing throughout the years so this allows us restaurant owners the public everybody on those days and then hopefully we can through the whole year based yeah versus not having any restrictions on the dates and times and then just they want no I'm not saying that I'm just say 25s and the whole thing there's no way to enforce it there's no way to enforce it that's that's the big issue so um my recommendation is just cup for a Farm Winery they can grow their grapes they can Harvest their grapes as many as they want they can make their wine and then it gets shipped off site and they can do their tastings at local restaurants at local liquor stores it's it's basically the same thing it's just just that it's the tastings aren't on site that's that's basically the difference and I think that's how it's going to end up tonight yeah that that's I mean and and we're not telling him he can't make money because he can make money that way I mean um we're not hindering his income yeah it might actually be better it it might might actually be better yeah then you're not restricted to days and hours but nobody can go out there and taste it but they can go to a restaurant or they can go to a some of the neighbors are fine with it let me ask um right I'm not sure that that's what you would want to do because it's yeah yeah yeah Claudia you want to weigh yes um you are the most lovely people I mean and your place is incredible and you're trying to be so accommodating but the whether it's 50% of the people don't want it or 10% of the people don't want it we have to listen to the rest residents of Minista and and the conditional use permit does change the use of this land now again I'm still a little fuzzy here I I believe you should be able to sell your wine at all these different places in the community I I would love to support you and buy your wine I think this is a wonderful thing I don't like the idea and this is me and I don't I love the idea but I don't live next to you and you know someone over there said I can hear the baseball game that's really far away so laughing people which would definitely be happening on your beautiful piece of property you know 75 people times you know eight nights laughing having a wonderful time which they would be is disruptive to the community and I I think if this is possible you know maybe it I don't like the idea of selling wine in glasses to people on your property um if it was maybe like a the little plastic cup don't even go there okay I'm not going to I don't know I'm just saying I think you can have people come to your property I mean invite me over I'll come and drink wine there with you I know I'm not a commercial buyer but you can can't they still have a a friends over the neighbors over just is that allowed because they can have friends and neighbors you can have friends and neighbors over you know it's uh I think but it's not going to be 25 people two hours so I mean just so you I I I would love you to do this but I have to listen to the people that live here live yeah well I know but but but it's not 100% if everyone in here wanted it maybe the council would say sure everyone wants it yeah Peter you want to weigh in well I think Madam mayor I think you've come up with a reason compromise speak into your mic that would be what I would I think you come up with a reasonable compromise so I would back that okay thank you I would as well okay yeah okay kathen I think they should be allowed to do tastings I I mean we could limit the hours more I I I don't know how you expect them to sell their wine and be profitable if people can't taste it they can taste it at restaurants or yeah I've never been to a wine I buy lots of wine but met a lots of wi really quiet I've sat out in rocking chairs and I could hear everything going on around you with no music coming from the winery so you've never gone to a store and bought a bottle of wine that you didn't taste previously no I'm saying I I that's how I buy all my wine yeah yeah I mean it it's it's not um how do you say feasible to taste every single bottle of wine that you buy if you like variety and you buy different wines all the time I mean I we buy different wines all the time and we don't taste them before we buy them Mr treble and Mrs treble can still sell their flowers and their things and people can still go in there and look at this beautiful place and experience I know you want the experience I know you want to share your experience um I think you can do that without selling glasses of wine to people well what we can do too is you can start out like this and see how it goes but I I would recommend um uh providing the cup for the Farm Winery where they grow their grapes they um make their wine they bottle it and they ship it offsite that's my that's my proposal okay okay but since we know that there's going to be traffic and everything else that has to do with the pumpkins and the apples and everything else that situation doesn't go away it doesn't it's probably worse well it and The Winery tasting thing might even complicate things more so why why don't we see how things go and maybe after a year or two or three or three seasons or whatever we can see if there's room for expansion but I think okay and so they would reapply no they just have to come in for an amendment correct correct so but I I I I don't know how many people are going to be coming and going for the flowers and the pumpkins and the apples and then and then to add wine tasting on top of that it could be a lot it could be a lot more than we're thinking and they're allowed to do the flowers and the pumpkins and the apples without without a cup correct without a c yes without a cop it's a how many how many uh Farms ad Min to sell pumpkins flowers apples we don't know very minimal they just put them up on the roads they'll put carts on the roads and you know system so so let's put this thing to rest I'm sure everybody would like to go home and um ask question sure so no wine on the property but when you sell flowers and app sell a bottle of wine and just can't drink it site I don't think that we can control that that's the problem um what's not actually a problem it's not a problem yeah he's selling his product we're never going to know yeah that's that's what I'm saying difference between it's let me put it this way it's not going to be included in the cop so um so with that is there a motion to that effect thank you Mr Victory is there a second second thank you Miss McGregor all those in favor signify with i i i n nay okay three eyes tun um you have your cop cup for your f farm wiery and uh we'll see how it goes um Madame mayor one clarification we will be bringing back a resolution to your next meeting for you to adopt that will have these conditions and that that will serve as the cup so the official action will take place at the next meeting yeah do you need any more information think so you got it okay thank you all right we are going to move on to our next item and I'll allow some time if people wish to leave but you're welcome to stay no we're going to do the uh Wetland yeah okay so next on the um under business items we are going to be discussing approval of a wet land replacement plan at 3900 kingspoint Road I who wants is it Allison or David I'll let Allison go ahead and take over if you would please all right good evening mayor and Council um before you this evening is a wetland alteration permit for the property located at 3900 Kings Point Road um the the Wetland on duration permit um is to as proposed is to accommodate construction of a new home um so the applicant proposes Wetland replacement uh via purchase of the Minnesota state Wetland Bank uh in kind replacement of a type three Wetland um we've included in the packet all the information that was originally submitted and then handed out to you this evening with some additional information which um was to meet procedurally um from the Board of Water and Soil resources perspective um in order for the council to have obtained all the information and comments from uh the board of uh Board of Water and Soil resources just say Bowser Bowser thank you I said that was the last time I was going to say it um and henpen County um so again that was just a procedure um just to make sure that the council had received all the comments um includ for consideration of the Wetland alteration permit um so just a little bit of clarification because there is a um um there was a discussion quite a lengthy discussion today with regards to the application as it as it came through so I apologize because um this is this is not your city engineers's um area of expertise and I am I am speaking on behalf of a colleague who helps the city process these applications so um this item again this item was removed from the consent agenda for procedural reasons the comments from Bowser and H henpen County needed to be provided to the council before considering the Wetland alteration permit the initial comments were received from henpen County and Bowser um on May 9th and 13th respectively and then a technical evaluation panel was held May 15th um the technical evaluation panel or te is comprised of the Regulatory Agencies um associated with the Wetland Conservation act and um a t panel meeting is held when um these Regulatory Agencies receive the application and have not necessarily just a concern but maybe questions with regards to some of the information included in the um in the application um which could could include things like um the avoidance if the application has shown um appropriate means of avoid to try to avoid Wetland impacts as an example um so uh based on the comments of the the T meeting the applicants team provided an updated application on May 28th and requested that the item remain on this June 3D agenda because there's a a deadline um that there the the applicant um has later this week so um the environmental scientists that assists the city with processing the Wetland alteration permits reviewed that updated application and felt that the material sufficiently addressed the comments that had been previously been been received however staff from Bowser and henm County would like some more detailed information um particularly the Alternatives evaluated to um to avoid or minimize the impact uh we also heard from henpen County that um there was uh there's a wetland setback that is shown on the um on the drawings that were submitted both their preferred um preferred uh layout if you will and the Alternatives that they uh considered and henpen County um expressed that they that the there should have been a a request for setback variants to to further avoid some Wetland impact tax um so what does this mean to the council so the council is um the city is the local government unit when it comes to uh Wetland Conservation act regulations and the Wetland alteration permits and um as staff we seek to provide the council with information associated with these these permit applications and again we have these regulatory agencies that are notified when there's a wetland alteration permit and certainly seek to provide council with those comments um so that they can take the council can take that into consideration um when coming up with a decision um so again we we did provide a recommendation just looking at um at what was submitted um on May 28th as a as you know a high level yeah they took a look at some um some options here um to to avoid those Wetland impacts and we're hearing from um to a certain degree Bowser but certainly henpen County as far as looking at um you know a little further investigation wanting to to know a little bit more about the process that the applicant has gone through to try to avoid some of these these impacts so there's some options that the council could look at um this evening as far as some as far as action um certainly I anticipate that there will be some questions and I would do my best to answer those um but some options um that the council may want to consider as one to approve the Wetland alteration permit as as submitted this evening um second one would be to deny the Wetland alteration permit or to table action and request additional information um just kind of playing it forward if since we do have a regulatory agency that has indicated um that there's some additional information they would like to see should they um disagree if the council were to approve the Wetland alteration permit um and and um any any agency from that technical evaluation panel um could um appeal that decision um it's it's it's again my understanding of the the process is is very limited so um I'll speak just very generally so an appeal would certainly be the onus on the applicant um wouldn't be brought through the city necessar I I don't believe it comes back through the city I it goes to Bowser I believe it goes through the state and so B you know they've they come through the local government unit if if there's an appeal from the local government decision it it's it's moved upward so to speak well let's let's discuss the project first before we talk about potential next test I just weize again it's not my area of expertise so I wanted to get my thoughts out in somewhat a cohesive Manner and I think more importantly if I can um miss bsky here thank you very much you've done a great job um the the information you have in front of you is basically it's for public um it's it's for public record and they wanted it on public record that they made these comments so that's basically in a nutshell that's why it's here they are under a gun I guess no I shouldn't say that they are under a date um they I think uh June 6 is their uh kind of deadline um it has to do with the purchase of the property and so um we need to make a decision here tonight up or down so um I just have a quick question for the um applicant if you might have to come forward and just um answer in the microphone here but um so one of the comments by um henan County um is you know you could reduce the patio size is that something you could do I mean have you considered that we have we've considered a lot of different options um Madam mayor council members staff um do I toce no oh well I suppose you should I'm sorry yes um Sarah Callis um my address is 32 East Main Street Brookside New Jersey um we are looking at moving back to Minnesota after U moving in New Jersey and and this is the community that we wanted to join um for lots of reasons but um we went through I think we version 12 of the home plan design we're on version like 20 of the site plan that the engineers we've engaged Wetlands site Engineers building Engineers an entire you know construction crew with many many generations of experience and we we've cut back as much as we physically can with the constraints of the property the property is very unique in that even though it's 9.56 Acres over six acres of that is wet um and then there's steep slopes there's steep slopes there's Wetland and and the challenge with not impacting the Wetland that is on the property and that is actually contained um would result in an impact the Wetland that feeds into Lake vaka and so the idea of reducing one Wetland impact results in a greater impact to the other Wetland could you explain that yeah of course um the the lake vatanka Wetland so the northern portion of the property um that's the bulk of the Wetland that um is on Six Mile Creek and that feeds directly into hallstone Bay right okay this the Wetland on the south portion of the property is wholly contained within the lake it doesn't have land it doesn't it's a holding Pond basically exactly um and and we've had that Engineers like review process to make sure that it is Holy contained so that we can make sure that as we're redesigning the site and thinking about the impacts of the setbacks um the traffic um and the ability to turn around on the property because where it's at is a Kings Point Road across the street is an entrance to the wood Co so we were really thoughtful in making sure that we were not impacting like backing up into that road I would not want to create that traffic Hazard we can't have um a basement on the property because there's a wetland we can't have the building structure too close to the Wetland because otherwise we will have long-term issues with the structure um and the the water steeping into the foundation um so what we've done is we've taken sort of a beautiful parcel that is extremely complicated it's taken us 10 months to get to where we are that is only because I do have a history of understanding iups and cups and and my background I'm I'm a lawyer by trade and so um I've done some of this work and when I looked at this property everyone said it's not possible it's not possible to build a house on that property my husband was me he's like you want to do what um so to that point how did you pick this lot yeah so um because we live in New Jersey right the idea is where do we want to come back to um we want to come back to a a community that is more rural in nature um I grew up on a farm southern Minnesota my husband and I both met in high school in alberly um so it's very important to us to not be in you know Minneapolis for example um we looked at the size we really wanted to have the property not just the a postage you know I I grew up walking um corn and bean Fields as my summer job for my dad because he believed in manual labor and um you know I we love gardening we love taking care of the outside of the property and and making it our own um but the idea of having the ability to have a wet land and have that extra space where we wouldn't have neighbors but you were close enough to the neighborhood across the street that our children would still have the benefit of growing up close to a neighborhood um our children play hot feet well I'm going to interrupt you because it sounds wonderful but we want to get home tonight sorry I'm still not clear though I because as I understand you want to fill part of the cell that contained Wetland is that right okay so how does that doing that um are you saying that it's an Either Ore so you either fill that or something closer to lake vatanka is that what you're saying or yes so um the width of the house itself is not abnormal it is not a wider width house than what um you would see so so when we're looking at the patios for example in the rear if I if I move the house very close to the edge of the rear setb what happens is I know that my grill is is going to be for example on the hill that is going down straight into Lake Minon and so the idea of not having that patio space and not having that area is all of our runoff go straight into that Wetland and we aren't able to use the grading to our benefit we aren't able to create the the living space in the rear of the house um on the southern end where the Wetland is we We Shrunk the size of the garage we actually are putting in a a rink we tried to figure out where to put that in the house and you know talk to Structural Engineers about that if I can if I can um you can look on the um in the packet so they have a lot of different issues with so they have steep slopes and lots of wetlands and the Wetland that she's referring to is is contained so therefore so when you're talking about water quality for Hallstead especially you want to try and mitigate um water run off into um untreated if you will water runoff into um holstead and of course the wetlands are treating the water before it goes into holstead so that's what she's saying is it's better to impact if because of the constraints of the property they have to impact one or the other one and it's better to impact the contained one versus the non-contained one because that's what runs right into Hallstead all right and and we've even um worked with the builder to make sure that all of the runoff from the property itself is to the contained Wetland so like there's going to be piping underneath from all the um gutters so that it goes into that contained butland and not into Pula Bay um so we're we're trying very hard to work with the constraints of the site yeah while still recognizing that it's a complicated site yeah okay thank you I understand okay so they're looking for approval for the um Wetland um plan I guess and it's 0686 ACR thought it was at 088 something like that it's yeah yeah it's it's 088 whatever yeah and um and you're buying um Wetland Bank banking credits so at a two to one ratio yeah yeah you have to that's Wetland that's the whacka rules anyway so okay um yeah well one thing that concerns me about is that that you're buying credits outside of henan County and you know all of our uh Lakes are impaired um with the exception a little Long Lake which is very small so um think that I had that same question yeah yeah so well first off I'm really glad to hear all the work you've done to um deal with the runoff that that's impressive um but it would be great if you could have uh done something in h County where we really needed so yeah we we looked at the various banks that were available and both looking at the type and the size and quite frankly you know the costplay is onet because the henen county cost is double outside in a henen county and and so when when I was thinking about um other projects so because ours is such a small fraction of the larger Wetland potential projects my thought was well h County should be reserved for those larger projects that do have larger Wetlands um or that maybe have more impact right and then when we work with our Consultants would be yeah that because we've done so much on the site to mitigate the impact we're trying very hard to be economical and everything else too okay thank you I mean I'm sure it's dollar based but yeah um I think um kudos to you for trying for mitigating some of that um storm water runoff too that's that's important so all right what is your wish Council need a motion to approve some thank you and is there a second did you second I'm sorry no I didn't okay anybody second that I'll second that are there uh further questions okay comments hearing none all those in favor signify with i i all those opposed motion passes by V okay we look forward to having you as a new Resident all right um I have to get my thing out again so next we're going to move on to consideration for quote for West Branch Culver replacement project and I told my husband I was going to be home at 9: oh I'll make um Madam mayor members of council before you this evening um is a is a consider itation for a quote that was received for replacement of a culvert underneath West Branch Road over by sunnyfield uh we sent the quote package out to three contractors we received one complete quote in the amount of $61,200 uh taking a look at the the amount listed in the quote um I did consult with a a colleague of mine uh with regards to what we were seeing for pricing um and he indicated that it's it's in line with what he would would have anticipated for a project of this magnitude uh so staff went back and took a look at options to try to get this project more in line with what was budgeted for this project which was $50,000 total um so we looked at um specifically the seating and the um grubbing areas um and that that constitutes basically tree removal area um that is um necessary to install the pipe and then the seaing to restore it um so we looked at those two options um to reduce the price of that and we anticipated that um we would see about 9,000 just over $99,000 9,180 reduction in that and ask the contractor if they would be amable to that and they indicated yes um so with that um we do realize that we are still over the anticipated budget for this project however uh we um there is adequate budget for this work um as presented in in the storm water budget um including our contingency and indirect cost we would be just under 63,000 for a total project cost um so we are recommending approval with this but understanding um the budget uh concerns that the council may have we did include a resolution in the packet this evening um should the council uh direct staff to uh should the council reject the quote and direct staff to either requote the project or put it on hold well we're not going to requote it cuz you've already put it out for quotes and you only got one quote so let's just move on okay I'm trying to stay under my no no that's okay I'm just saying that you know if you go out for Reb bitting it it's G to come back I mean did hening ever get back about why no I did not hear back from them yeah so I mean Weir it is what it is I I just don't think that we're going to get more quotes or even better quotes and here's the other thing generally quotes are going to be limited what 30 days 60 days something like that so by the time we go out for another another quote it might this one might go away and then we might end up with something even more so um I'd also and I apologize I should have included this in the packet Madame mayor if I may um minger construction has done has done work in the city and and um there's no concerns with their ability to to complete the work on um in a timely fashion and in in in good repair so all right okay Council all right um then I need a motion to approve approve uh the the quote for the West Branch Calbert replacement project city project number those in favor signify with i i all those opposed motion passes 5 and next um The Joint Powers agreement with henna and Cony for the assessing services for 2025 and Beyond I believe that's Mr Grim counil this should be one of the easier resolutions we've had in quite a while basically Uh current year cost was 205,000 for the city for Henman counting assessing services and a couple Fridays ago uh joshman of the county said we're GNA provide that service for free and I said you're joking right and then he said no it's actually MCO one you know it's like and may right and you can see in the packet some of the correspondents the Henman County Board took that on as a part of their countywide Levy you know they're you know leving another five million dollar or whatever and it's taking off the the city Levy for okay 2025 and Beyond so I just want to put it on business just that actually it's finally you know a way you know everything costs are usually going up for everything or whatever this is actually one thing that'll help in our city budget process for 2025 so ra our County taxes yeah but but you know what sh but yeah no basically but look at it this way the entire county is helping to pay for this so correct yeah are you gonna say a word about the double pay that we were doing well yeah we were actually paying the county and then we're actually paying them again from our coffers so yeah their 205,000 was ultimately to allocate out you know how much it took for them Kevin wi and stuff to do the work in our city so that I however much they were living on at at the county for those service I have no idea but I know what for we had to charge the 205,000 on our city Levy and show it under our city portion of our and I remember a time when it was 144,000 not 205,000 so six years it keeps going up and up and up because we have more and more homes so this will be this will be good I mean so um do you need a resolution just a mo to approve that resolution that's in the all right so I need a motion to approve the resolution that was in the packet um for the joint Powers agreement with h County for assessing services for 2025 and Beyond so move thank you Miss refkin is there a second thank you Mr Victory all those in favor signify with i i all those opposed motion passes and next um we're talking about amending the city code the temporary liquor license background requirements can I make this really quick mhm yes thank you um so we talked about this at our work session any other and we're just going to eliminate the background check for the um three2 um temporary liquor licenses uh is there any other questions that you wish to ask or comments all right is there then a motion to approve um ordinance number 489 amending city code temporary liquor license background requirements so moved thank you Miss Lacy is there a second thank you Mr vicory any further questions hearing none all those in favor signify with i i all those opposed motion passes 5 and next we're going to move on to approve our task task order number 10 with a2s for the water main improvements in Woodland Cove we've heard about this before can we make it quick staff wants to go home staff wants to go home um it was in our packet um it's needed we have to do it uh they're going to I think it was 52,009 000 okay um for the um not to exceed uh for the design and um specifications everything yeah y yeah no no you can ask questions it seems like $225,000 for preliminary and final design seems a bit High considering we're putting pipes exactly where we need to put pipes that are already there like why why is it so much well the these are going to be side by side we're pulling new pipe in we're not going to be um replacing the pipe that's there this will be new pipe so there's a little bit of um strategy involved when you're pulling that to make sure we're going under the crossing there's a few storm sewer crossings that we'll have to be under and stuff so there's a little bit of strategic planning in the place and we're also looking at changing some of the connection points I don't feel we need as many as they have right now so uh we're kind of looking at reducing um two to three of the connection points um for the crosssections so it may change here and there but um there's just a little bit of strategy when you're pulling that pipe to make sure we're hitting just the right angle and stuff so there'll be a little bit of um engineering Advanced planning that's going to be needed so if once the new pipe is in and it's working the old pipe just stops being used no no the 8 in sets there will still be used because that'll that'll be what's tied into the side into like cation court and all that they'll it'll still remain in service this is just to get the main trunk feeder line transmission line up to the 12 in on um Woodland Co Boulevard to um substantiate uh the best water transmission should we say from the plant from the new plant that we will be building and then just what is the res project representative services for 15,000 um what page is that on it's on page 171 171 some of that GE you like the construction OBS I mean conu Administration is that some of the you know troubleshooting with residents and construction observation and stuff or sorry I'm just looking at the 11 page document page on it's on1 11 page that yeah that little chart there at the bottom we can find out I'm assuming that's going to be because we will be disconnecting some of the we'll be uh temporarily doing some water I mean we're going to have to interrupt Water Services we're going to be shutting off a large area when they do this connection so I'm assuming that's going to be involving trying to get the neighbors coordinated and getting all that done because where this is going to be is on the main trunk line um so there'll be several homes especially to houses that are going to be without water for probably several hours during the day while they make these connections and there's going to be four of them so instead of they want six I'm trying to get it on to four so so there'll be some substantial people uh with I shouldn't say there' be a number of people without water for a while till we get the hookup done well that'll be fun okay who did the calculations a2s does all that they do all the planning and all that so so are we going to be a pain and ask them to actually back that up or we going to let it go what are we going to do well I don't know that this is that time sensitive is it I mean so if there was some questions that maybe a2s could answer and bring back at at that we'd like to get it out as soon as possible um you know we could is there a timing for um bidding or quoting I mean is this a better time well just be because of the time frame of trying to get the project done in a timely matter so it gets done before you know freeze up and stuff like that because you can only pull pipe for so long so we're trying to get out as fast as possible and to coordinate with nodin who's out there right now we hopefully they will get the bid for this since they are putting the new pipe in they're right there on site okay okay we're just trying to coordinate as much as possible to get that before this so that's fine it's just we need to I guess watch closely the hourly what that that seems and I can and I can get up and I can what I can do is I can find out tomorrow from Aaron what exactly that all entails you know and if it will be you know it's not to exceed so I can get a better feel for that much you know and then Gary if we approve it tonight then maybe just come back at our next council meeting with an update on on those numbers yeah I think the overall I mean I think it's six is it like a what's the estimated project 600,000 or 5 600,000 7 7 I looked at at the overall engineering cost I mean probably in the categories maybe are a little bit the 59,000 you know it didn't seem too bad you know 10% or so when you look at it globally or whatever so okay we even Gary can send you guys an email BL car copy guys when he gets the answer and you know okay if there's any pickup you just just remember along the way we are protecting taxpayer do no we're protecting water water user dollars who are taxpayers a lot we have to protect taxpayer dollars and we have to have explanations otherwise we're not do an I I I don't I don't disagree I absolutely agree yeah no that's I mean I more than anyone want the water fixed and the water treatment planing and the pipes and everything just that that number surprised me even yeah all right so you'll um and you can send out an email but it would be good if you just did a quick report at our next council meeting so that it's on record that would be um I think helpful for the public as well so all right um so is there a motion then to approve task order number 10 with a2s for the water main improvements in Woodland Cove so moved thank you Miss breant I knew you would have make that motion um is there a second yeah I know thank you Mr vicory any further questions all those in favor signify with i i all those opposed motion passes 5 um we don't have staff reports um I'm I'm going to pass on I yeah I'll pass on Council reports other than we're going to do the bus tour tomorrow um it be here by five if you would like to join us you're welcome in Council and spouses feel free um anything else I don't think so all right any any other reports we're still trying to coordinate a fire district meeting believe it or not so and should be sometime in the next two weeks yeah it should be sometime in the next two months okay anyhow so it's just been kind of difficult trying to coordinate everybody's um and especially summer um schedules so we're working on that and then um Kathleen and I and Brian and and bunch of people are also trying to coordinate a meeting with a2s and some water people so we can get some answers on the Water Treatment Plant and and that's tentatively the 10th or the 11th yeah they're holding two SP they holding two spots so hopefully in yeah it's with Kathleen and I will be at that meeting so all right then are we done all right then we can be adjourned if there's a motion so moved thank you is there a second second thank you m McGregor all those in favor signify with i i all those opposed motion passes by vot we'll see you all on the 17th if not sooner maybe tomorrow