councilmember cool here councilmember schweer here council member Wong here council member nordby is running late and council member mongi here motion to adopt the agenda so moved here a second members all those in favor say aye aye aye all right topics ignite field thank you bear thank you so tonight um we're all going to be talking about the McKnight Field Complex um there's many aspects of this Brandy's put together a really good report but we'll be covering the night field make Fields themselves the Kunkel field the Triple Crown batting cages the polar charity who does the work at the concession stands at the McKnight softball fields and ball field reservations so with that I will turn it over to Brandi and to discuss it's going to be a lot of information dumped for you guys tonight so it's going to be just back and forth and give us some guidance if you're looking for some more information then we'll follow up with what needs to be taken care of for any requests that you guys have okay okay thank you good evening everybody this is going to be another history lesson I think um so I spent a good portion of last week doing another Deep dive into the files to learn about the McKnight field area and this is a presentation of what I found it's not in any linear sort of order but I'll try to make it make sense as much as I can so what I learned is that the total area of the McKnight Field Complex is what I'm going to call it is 21.5 acres and that includes the baseball field which is now called Kunkel field the four softball fields two tennis courts a t-ball field the parking lots and the batting cages in the concession stands which is in the middle of the softball fields part of the land was acquired in 1969 through an eminent domain process and through a head Grant and so there are some limitations on that particular area in terms of what can be done with that land it must be preserved in perpetuity recreational purposes the exact boundary of that 11.7 acres is unknown without having a surveyor kind of draw it out for us but I believe that it's approximately the it's my pointer work I think it's Kunkel field about from I think the 11th Avenue area South is kind of roughly it but that's just going on what I believe to be the boundary based on the old plat map and kind of the legal description that I could piece together so the existing conditions of the McKnight complex kind of vary depending on what you're looking at so in the whole it needs a little bit of refurbishment uh refresh I think is how Ron put it he said that we need a new fencing around the entire site and the interior Trail and parking lots require Paving you can see that from the image here the trail to the concession stand is in some rough shape the tennis courts are also in disrepair and the t-ball field is in poor condition and there's some elements that are missing the softball fields are a native Sim refurbishment and maintenance as well kunkelfield is in pretty good condition it was updated with the efforts of the school district they covered the cost to rebuild the pitching mound which was about fourteen thousand dollars the project included re-grading resetting and spreading AG lime the school also built the Press Box in 2003 I did not have the value of that in the records that I saw most recently the school district has proposed to install a new scoreboard there's an image of it on the screen according to their proposal it would the school district would pay for the scoreboard they would use the four ad spots to pay for that cost and they would not accept any further ad Revenue after that so according to the district Representatives The Proposal does not include any Revenue that would go sorry I said that um if if the school district if the city agrees to accept the scoreboard then staff recommends that we engage with the city attorney to put a prepared agreement that would that would identify ownership and maintenance responsibilities so then we've got a couple of lease agreement agreements that have been in place in one kind of in a resolution really an agreement but it was a resolution that was adopted in 1979 the first one I'll talk about is the agreement with the school district so the city has had an agreement in place since about 1974. the most current one with the school district is dated 2011. that agreement has been in place for over a decade and there's been a lot of changes that have occurred since then the school district has a lot of new staff as does the city the school operations and the city operations are no longer the same as they were 10 years ago the main difference to the city is that we no longer offer a youth program and so we don't have a need to use School District facilities any longer and from what I understand over the past few months of working here and the limited amount of documentation I could find is that there's kind of a muddled history on the implementation of that agreement there's not always been restrict adherence to it by either the school district or the city in terms of the field maintenance Capital Improvements or fees so over the past few months City staff we've been looking at the agreement and we've had a couple of conversations with the school district initially to start the renegotiation process and so what we've learned from that so far is that both parties are in a general agreement that the informal practices of the past are not going to continue and that what we come up with for a future agreement will be the go-to guide and the policy document and all things related to to the use of McKnight field for the maintenance and the and the improvements and then we've got two other agreements Triple Crown batting cages and polar Charities so in 1992 the city entered into an agreement with triple triple crown wherein the um the lysi agreed to construct the batting cage facility in exchange for no rent for 15 years and that terminated in 2008. then in that year a 10-year extension was authorized that terminated in 2018 there was an automatic renewal built into that one and so that will expire in June of this year so in terms of concessions polar Charities was the other lease agreement that we had in place and that was operated the polar Charities they operated the concession stand for many years and that lease expired in November of 2022 and that group has decided not to continue so that that is an opportunity to move consider in the future and finally the American Legion in 1979 the legion requested permission to install lighting at McKnight field in exchange for use of the field free of charge indefinitely and the council agreed to that request and they passed resolution 79078 that accepted the lights and indicated that the legion can have free use of the field except for cleanup charges from then on so 1979 to and definitely can I pause you for a point of clarity sure the legion uses McKnight field or the legion uses Kunkel field sorry it was called McKnight but when I say McKnight I'm referring to Kunkel thank you good good point okay operational cost so this is something that we were asked to to take a look at to give Council a better understanding of what it what it takes to operate the facility and what it cost so we um Ron and his team put together a annual cost for all of the materials like chalk fertilizer grass seed Roundup irrigation mowing Etc and kind of came up with a year value of all those things and then we divided that by field and then divided that by day of the of how many days there are in the summer typically and so just the maintenance and supplies costs about 102 dollars per field per day and that does not even touch the electric costs so this I'm going to struggle with but I'm going to do my best to try to explain it so the use of the fields um is a little bit more complicated because to use the fields the customer must pay a demand charge which is an additional fee for large utility users to maintain the constant constant supply of electricity so when you factor in the demand charge for Kunkel field specifically that would be 733 dollars a month and that does not include the fees or the just the rate charges so if they're turning on the lights at all that's what it's going to cost for that month and then in addition to that then you have the use fees as well yep or two minutes or whatever just to flip on the switch correct oh 15 okay so moving forward just to let you know that the ball field rental rates that we have on the fee schedule now they do not include these costs necessarily and so this is what our fee schedule currently um we will We collect four rentals is 75 dollars per four hour time increment or 150 dollars per tournament which is renting the field for the entire day or if you want to have a midday drag or any kind of Maintenance then it would add another three hundred dollars and I think that would typically occur if there's going to be a a tournament for the day so we also looked at planning documents because you know that's very important to city planners so when we looked at our comprehensive plan to see what it had to say about the McKnight Field Complex it did have two specific things the first is that we should promote shared use of the park in open spaces wherever schools and parks are adjacent such as McKnight and North High School and the second thing is that we should continue to provide a high level of Maintenance and make improvements as appropriate and looking at the park Improvement plan that document recommends that we prepare a master plan for McKnight that includes a thorough assessment of the Aging condition of existing buildings and Facilities to give us a better understanding of the future replacement needs and it should also consider the existing facility mix the amenities out there programming needs and then what are the what do the residents want to see cost estimate should also be included so that we can adequately budget for any improvements so far the master plan has not been prepared there was ten thousand dollars that was set aside for for a master plan but I think when that was considered a by the park board it was more of a layout and so I think that the master plan name is a little bit confusing what it really is is what I described and not a layout but it's a hard look at what is the facility what do we want to see out there in the future so the discussion I've got a couple of points just to get us started so recommendations and some questions so the first recommendation is to continue to comply with the HUD agreement like we've done we will continue to partner with the school district on coming up with the shared use agreement for the facilities and we should prepare that community-wide park and rec master plan that looks at not just mcdain but all of the facilities throughout the community and then things to consider in our discussion tonight is the future of the batting cages the future of polar or the polar charity concession stand or the current fee schedule rates appropriate and what do we think about the donation of the scoreboard and with that I will ask questions or have you asked me any questions and I can stand here and keep this on or I can sit down whatever you prefer one question probably more towards you Brian is we met with the superintendent of the schools last Friday and she was going to get a list of what they thought the needs were going to be if you received anything yet not from them but we put a list together and we will have that to you I apologize I don't have that in front of me but we do have their reservation schedule for the summer and it was extensive so I mean it we'll be looking at those rates and coming back with you guys with some more suggestions on what's acceptable to you guys and she also mentioned the superintendent Christine that they are going to be doing their tennis over at one of the newer schools what's the name of the school they it's over in Maplewood yeah they already put a lot of money into that and re refurbished those fields oh the tennis courts aren't needed for for for that position for the schools that would be one of the other ones with a brand new ones they said they couldn't they're the way their policy is they cannot invest money into land that they don't own so that's why they didn't upgrade them so tennis courts those were a couple of questions we had when we met on Friday cool question can I ask a question School District cannot invest in land that they don't own can't invest in improvements on land they don't own that for those that's was what she told us just makes me question this scoreboard yeah yeah correct maybe donated or something when when you referenced ball fields and the schools What fields is does that Encompass and what what does the high school use of city land and do they have their own Fields as well that's where I in Brady awesome job putting the packet together there's a lot of history in there to to unpack I got confused when it started talking about school fields and City Fields and I don't know who uses what um is it can you guys hear me all right yeah um so the the school district uses their the boys baseball the varsity baseball team um and JV team use the Kunkle field the girls fast pitch softball used two of the fields on the McKnight complex so that that is their home Fields they don't have a ball field on their school property for you know any of that and then they used to use our tennis courts for their tennis team but like Randy said they'd invest the money in John Glenn and that's where they play their varsity games there JB so so girls fast pitch softball I believe RC JV and I believe maybe a ninth grade team and then the boys uh baseball Varsity or the boys baseball so also use the the t-ball court for practice on occasion too yeah they'll they'll use that for practice you know overflow but mostly that mostly the high school practices at that complex okay so like Richardson has a ball field that's considered a school ball field or a city ball field that's that is a school ball field so they maintain yes that Richardson has two ball fields uh Colin has three ball fields um Harmony oh yeah Harmony um Harmony has a baseball field it is that under well that's under 622. it is okay so piggy backing off of Tim's question um Tartan High School do they have ball fields and own their own ball fields they do they have their own uh full-size baseball field and a girls fast pitch field on their property okay okay okay you know last year there was a concern of course this year with all the snow we have that it took them almost you know the season before they could even use our field because it was so so wet out there correct we have a problem with that on quite a few years because of the drainage out there well we do I mean they have a short time to get their games in you know in the in the spring before school ends and I mean that complex is built on a swamp I mean it it is they filled in a swamp basically to make that complex so it doesn't take much to you know make those fields unplayable I mean we we do go to extreme lengths sometimes to make sure that um you know we have to put those fields away in the in the fall ready to go because we don't have any time in the spring to do any kind of major project or even a minor project we pretty much have to once it's dry enough to get out there where we can get the bases set and get the fields drug you know they're out there wanting to use a moment they want to if they have some dry spots in the grass to use they'll use that just because it you know it they have a short short period of time to to use them or to get their games in another thing we talked about too is that um t-ball field you said the last time it was a signed out officially for any kind of games was like 2018 is that correct it was used last but the high school really doesn't they might use that to go take batting practice I mean that's not their primary field that they would use um there's a fast pitch group over the summer that used it and I'm not sure the organization that put you know that who organized that or had that together but they'd practice on there a lot there's a tournament that they use the whole complex down there and they use that field five or t-ball field as uh they played some games on that for some overflow so that was for like a three or four day weekend tournament and then there was one other night that we prepped the field for actual actually a game other than that it was used for practices and in 2022 and then I think 2018 through 2021 um we didn't prep it at all for anything there was nothing scheduled or on it at all so and so does that mean that the they're warming up or practicing out in the um that field without any maintenance yes yes pretty much yeah and normal mowing of course yeah yeah we you know Moet we we irrigated that's an irrigated feel too so you know we make sure that the grass is we fertilize it you know to keep it the best that we can we drag that field randomly just to keep the grass from growing in it but it's not something that you know it's done every single day um if on our field maintenance calendar that we have um like that group they gave us their schedule and basically on our field maintenance calendar it said practice no maintenance needed um so that's like I said we just kind of drag it once a week just to keep the weeds out of it in regards to the operational costs I don't believe I saw labor in there um was there I think there was Labor in there yeah we assumed one hour of time at 58 an hour so that would be for one field and you know when I was trying to come up with how I was going to break these costs down is really hard because I so basically what I did with the whole thing is hey this is what we have to do whether the fields are used or not fertilize it irrigate it mow it um and then I just had that hourly charge so I had to take an hour to prep a field and then I took chalk what we paid for chalk for a year what we paid for fertilizer for a year for there and just broke it down to a daily cost say hey it cost four dollars a day to have fertilizer down there chalked on there or whatever and then you all are talking the lines we track the lines we paint so there's paint in there we paint the Outfield lines because they're on grass we chalk the infield lines um so when there's adult softball down there versus girls fast pitch softball there's three different base lengths that are out there so if the girls use it on a Monday night and they have their games on it and we have something and they don't use it on Tuesday night and we have adult softball on there Tuesday night um the bases are longer they're at 70 feet the girls bases are at 60 feet the girls have uh use this there's three different pitching Mounds out there which we have they're installed permanently but the girls have a circle that we that needs to be chalked around the the pitching Mount the girls have batters boxes that they need to have chalked in their adult softball we just talk straight lines down there's no batteries box boxes or you know anything like that so it any thing different than girls softball on there you know it has to be adjusted and we've had you know there's been nights where there's girls softball and then there's adult softball after so we have to have a guy standing by normally we have about a half hour to get in there switch the fields over to adult softball drag them re-chalk them um so that you know that requires some overtime sometimes to to take care of that so nobody from the district does any of that but you but the city no the city does it now just so you guys have some background now when I started here I don't know 15 16 years ago just as a maintenance guy I was doing the fields and when the high school is using our Fields they their Crews came and prepped all their fee all the fields our fields for their games um and I believe I believe it was that first year that I was here halfway through the season um their maintenance guy came up to me and said hey I guess we're not doing it anymore you guys are doing it and I believe that was because how they were taking care of the fields now again I wasn't in any position to know the the backstories of this I was just out there and Guy handed me hey here's some batter's boxes the sizes and I'm out of here so um and I believe the back story was is that how they're taking care of the fields they were kind of it wasn't up to probably the standards that they should have been it was my understanding no I again this is all just hearsay so I don't know this for sure but from that point on we took care we took care of them you know prepping those fields so it's kind of a catch-22 on that because if we got to go down there and they're not they're doing a subpart you know maintenance on what the fields are and you know that's be dragging egg lime out into the grass you know hitting our sprinkler heads or whatever it might be so I believe and I believe in our field maintenance agreement that we're working on with the school district and I think it was in there prior to that us working on this too is that the city would take care of all their field stuff I mean we take care of our the fields that we own the school district would take care of the fields that they own and when I started here too we had the nspaa was big there everything was going on we used coworn we used Harmony we use Richardson and we use Webster so we went and we would do like 15 Fields a day is what we would prep on a daily basis using the school district fields because we needed them we didn't have enough fields for all the the ball that was going on but like brandy said we don't have any of that anymore so I mean we don't need there's no use need for us to use any of the school district Fields well then question for the city and Brian well it's like you would know this or brandy did we rent those fields from the schools sorry did we rent did we pay for those School spaces in the past couple of years when um and well historically I wasn't able to find any records of payments except for um last year the year before we did have we were the conduit for people that were from outside of the city to rent school facilities we've stopped that practice now and in those instances they didn't get charged for the use of the field but we were charged a transaction fee of 25 dollars back in the back in the day I believe there it was just kind of a hey you use our fields we use your Fields again I don't have any proof of that because I was just a maintenance guy then so I I I don't know that there's any money exchanged or we had to rent their fields and last year we did use the school district we used column Fields because of an organization that came up um a youth baseball group a group of guys got together to start up a youth baseball because their kids were like hey we have no place to play in North Saint Paul so you know I believe some of these people got together and they wanted to use coloring Fields because there's three Fields there you know it could be in one area and they could kind of manage it better there so that's where we actually went over and prepped their fields we used cower and Fields last year and I believe that's where that 25 dollar fee came in registration fee and I don't know if that was per night or one time a year or or what I don't know what that was oh that fee was just for the one time that it took for Lisa to make the phone call to reserve the fields yep okay so the pictures clearly show that there needs to be maintenance on that circling back to the school using it the city caring for these fields who are we obtaining a Certificate of Insurance from the city to utilize these fields and the tennis courts as well if they are and we have our Certificate of Insurance if somebody gets hurt who is liable and what property is liable for that as a city what how liable for that because of the fact that it hasn't been up kept is District liable for the individuals that are utilizing it that's where my concerns would be on that level I mean I'm just I'm just talking to you directly now yeah I'm sorry I believe I believe in some of the conversations again this is my first year being involved with any of these conversations but from what I gather is that that is they are given proof of insurance I believe there is language that says something about that in there like hey you're using our Fields it's on you yeah there is language regarding Insurance in the in the agreement whether or not we have that on in in our records I'd have to double check and find it that's definitely something we're going to want to look at make sure we have record Avett the biggest concern on a park end though too is because they're utilizing the services and we are required to maintain those areas it is now it falls on the city because we have not maintained them so if something happens you we it would I'm not a server I am not an insurance expert but I can easily say that because we have not maintained it that we would probably be liable for that situation are you talking about the tennis courts specifically yeah I the pictures that you had shown and yeah I mean even if there were gosh the school district is not reserving the tennis courts and I don't even know if anybody is using them are they locked no there's not we don't put the Nets up I mean it's just uh we're taking tennis court right we pull the fences down around them yet we dancers are still up okay yeah so it sounds like there is a big need for for um this the school district to utilize the fields whether it's Kunkel fields or the softball fields and sometimes that um what do they call it the t-ball the t-ball um field as well and so with that said I mean oh you know what kind of either programming can we pull in to make it worth it or is there something we can think about in terms of um looking at what the amenities are now does that make sense so the school district uses what a month and a half probably is what they get out of it on a normal year included as an amendment to the packet that went out there's another attachment in there that shows for the past three years the reservations of all the different organizations for all the fields for the entire summer so it gives you a grand total of how many times each field was rented for the date and and who is renting them normally whenever school I mean as soon as they can get on the fields in the spring the school till basically school is out is when they and I believe I can't I can't remember if they can have playoffs if they make it to the playoffs if that's after school or if that has to be before school ends but basically one school is done um they're done using the fields it looks like they were if it was a a decent spring looks like the March 13th it would have started up there I think they had that scheduled for this year March 13th yeah it looks like it goes it might be a little snow on the field still yep so they had wishful thinking this year we all do yeah looks like the 17th of May is the last time they have the Kunkel that looks like the softball fields go on a little bit till June 2nd and we do not have any Mounds right over at that yeah it's on the in the complex that the four Fields or the pinwheel there's no pitching modes on there that's basically um softball slow pitch fast pitch um I know that the nspa you used that when they got smaller they could kind of run all their different programs up there um any of the youth baseball they could utilize Casey Lake lower Casey or kc1 has a mound on it and upper Casey which is a little bit smaller field but it's a baseball field and that has a smaller pitching mode on it too I know we're talking about McKnight complex but um how much did you do at Casey last year or as far as field prep well that same group that we're as talking about using the group of guys that got that you stop all together um I believe and don't quote me on this but I think it's on the field maintenance calendar for last year I mean I would say there was maybe three times a week two or three times a week we prep that field down there and there's four Fields there's Casey one and two there's four Fields total down there um the two main fields are one and two is what what they use um field one um uh what's his name Jerry Bell yeah Jerry Bell from the twins I think he was the president of the twins for a long time he got some money from a twins fund down there and that was redone I don't know maybe three four years ago maybe five years ago um I was just curious to see what kind of a I know it's a little bit off topic to see what kind of Revenue or what kind of events we had down there as well yeah but that group used that and prior to that there was a there's another like uh um a baseball Traveling Baseball group that for North Saint Paul I mean there were some people from North Saint Paul but they just got a group of kids together and they used it prior to that you gave me a tour of the facility on Thursday last Thursday thank you so I was able to walk around we went into the concession area we still don't know who owns all the equipment in there there was nothing really divided up so nobody has an idea of all the machines in there and different things as far as for that building too going forward so many questions yeah I'm just looking at um the ball field reservations and I see um outside of the school district there are three different organizations reserving the field 3M Minnesota magic and the legion so just to clarify is the legion is not paying for their use no and the baseball field the Legion Field just so everyone knows that ball field is kind of like a it's a premier ball field it's really nice field um the legion over the years have take has taken really great care of it there's Ron Adams that used to be kind of I think he was the coach down there for a a long time 20 25 years or something he was very uh particular about that field he you know always there's a cart they used to own a cart down there we have a cart down there also um because their cart that they had it was really old and kind of dangerous so um we got rid of that we purchased a new one a couple years ago and we put our older one down there but they used to after their games they would drag the fields out and kind of you know we tarp the mountains the mountains are made out of clay the mound is made out of clay down there the batter's boxes have Clay in them down there so it's a totally different field than one of the softball fields and it it's like a high maintenance feel so the legion always did a great job with uh they're like hey we'll help you out doing this you know so after the games they'd put the fields away good you know we'd go down and prep the field for them when we got the the schedule for you know what their schedule was but really the only people that use that field are the high school uses it in the spring in the summertime the Legion Baseball team uses it and the VFW baseball team uses it and I don't know if there's a I think the last couple years again don't quote me on this but I think the VFW they didn't have a team I don't know if there was funding for it or if they didn't have the kids for it but normally there was and then we're basically the people that use that field that field was never rented out to just anybody to go to go use it I mean I refer to it as a Legion Field because that's kind of you know what it is but it or how I look at it yeah so we um looked we found that the legion had some some agreement when it came to the field itself as far as that we so that's one section of what we need to look at has been the part of that is just they have to take care of cleanup and things like that but they don't pay for the for the field rental itself is what is that correct Brian okay so that's one piece of the puzzle because they we did find that agreement um is the legion able to take care of their own shocking so we don't have to have City resources do that do you I would think being they're a high grade team and they have uh I would think they'd be able to take care of that part themselves and then we would charge rent for anybody that uses the softball fields so we can maintain those I mean that could work there I mean they're going to need the right person you know on nobody plays on that but then so if they screw up they're screwing themselves up sure yeah I mean the other one we rent out to other people so is what I'm saying yes yes so there's a yeah the group that uses that is they're pretty specific yes on that yeah yeah we I would add that we wouldn't restrict the use of that field to just the legion though if somebody wants to rent it it will be reserved well we have to I don't know they provided the lighting the booth and stuff like that that's kind of a different avenue I think compared to the regular Fields themselves do we own the land purpose it's a donation did they donate okay well the legion donated the lighting and that is all okay well it's all that I have record of they were they donated land too so no the land was from a grant from from HUD so the the federal government and so with that Grant there is specific uh restrictions on the Perpetual use of that has to remain open to the public um as as open space or Recreation so that's why the boundary of that which we don't have access to at this minute is pretty important because we can never take it out of recreational use without permission from HUD sure and I would think we'd look at that as a different rental agreement then as far as the pricing because that's a different style field Maybe potentially yeah but as it stands we if anybody wants to rent the field that's not the school district or the legion they would rent it for 75 bucks for four hour increments has that been included as Kunkel as part of that agreement for 75 was that specific the the seven or anything except for the softball fields for the 75 bucks I'm asking the question that that the 75 is for the um it's per the fee schedule so that was adopted back in December so the fee schedule is everything that Under the Sun that somebody might have to pay the city for like a building permit for example reservations for Park shelters for example or the or the ball fields so the 75 is any of the fields um you have any idea how the last Council came up with that number I don't know that it was the council necessarily that came up with it maybe maybe there's some guidance here but somebody or isn't it generally Staffing staff can I do a look at that address that okay um so yeah it was a group effort so we would get input from public works and electric to pull together the cost that they have for those fields um and they came up well what the final was for the 75 charge that's actually probably about half of what the cost is to actually do it um but we thought you know it's a public good it's for the kids in our city and our community um so we thought that was an appropriate price at the time we didn't talk about residential non-residential or anything like that justified fees was pretty much looked at no historically it was separated out correct run with that uh yeah I I again I wasn't involved I mean with coming up with the numbers but if just from here saying what I heard it's just to Echo what Brian said is that I believe that not I want to say the numbers 150 to 60 or something per field prep and and I think they had discussion about it and talked about it and they're like that's crazy it's too much money they can't people can't afford it or the organizations can afford it so I think they cut it in half and I and again I don't know how that number K was you know come up with but but there was a separation between residential non-residential or non-profit based organizations I think that probably over the years there was something residential versus non-residential I'm just guessing based on the the users of of the fields and the community center for example I know that when there was the Community Center membership fees there was resident versus non-resident so I would imagine I don't know for sure that it could have been that way in past fee schedules for the for the field rentals um certainly a discussion that we could have now there's no reason why we couldn't modify the fee schedule to to benefit residents versus non-residents information where it came from I was just curious if I may we are talking a lot about the cost of things and I see that 3M is well represented on the schedule I would like for us to kind of entertain a kind of a public park private partnership there I think that is something worth investigating um if if we want to continue to invest in these fields and that might be helpful yeah we learned that from the one we took the tour of Conway the dedications and things like that very doable then the tennis courts of course we were looking at that and the fees for um the conditions so you know is there any anything else that came up with that as far as uh know that that there's two sets of ten there's two sets of tennis courts which have three tennis courts in each one and the the main I get I guess the ones if you drove into the parking lot that are directly to the north of all I there's a set of tennis courts down there there just in disrepair I mean the fences someone stole all the Hardware off of them and replaced the hardware I think two times on it and someone keeps stealing the hardware off it just to keep the polls from falling down and they're kind of all over the place um the the courts are like I said we put Roundup on them because the Grass Grows through them and I mean they're just they're they're shot and the fencing looks terrible because all the hardware is gone again and the poles are hanging you know my opinion we should take the fencing down and you know we have some money this year to redo that parking lot down there but I mean it wouldn't be enough to I don't believe if we just even paved over that whole tennis court area that's there right now there's a whole nother set of tennis courts uh back further to the West um that they're not great either they're not nearly as bad as these ones but I think last year we only put up one or two nuts in there because there's some big cracks and it needs it's really kind of dangerous probably to play out there with those but the one set of Courts I mean I'd like to do something to make it look a little better I think at this point the the courts the tennis courts are not in use there there's not any plan to use them or reserve them they're they're just kind of sitting mothballed at the moment um future considerations I think will come forward as we do like a system-wide recreational plan and that will take a little bit of time and some Outreach um so I know that the one cent is really bad taking the fence down from that but is there any other things until we did get that far I know there was some outdoor storage maybe we talked about there we could be able to fence in some some of the things that the city has troubles storing right now and looking into that um and speaking with Brandy as well it's it's not zoned for that and we don't know that it was even unallowable use when with the HUD situation that we have but we're still looking into it even temporary we'd have to change Zoning for one but um we'd have to look at the wording on it that's no information it is big long park benches so then I would probably take them all down advancing or at least lock them up so people can't get in there yeah and get hurt no it's I mean my opinion tennis courts everything just needs to be pulled out and leveled and there's nothing really left to be used so the other part we're gonna go to the batting cages yes thank you batting cages and then the kind of the middle of the where the cooking or the concession is is pretty much a kind of a Dead Issue right now because nobody stepped up to say hey we want to run that or can we rent that from the city so we'll just worry about that one but the batting cages themselves it sounds like we need to address that as far as the how long the lease has been and it's gone on quite a few years after the original agreement 15-year lease originally at the end of that they renegotiated for a 10-year extension on that that was just a one-time fee of one dollar for them to be there for those 10 years they took care of all the expenses the city doesn't take any or pay for any expenses through the building but at the end of it that'll be up this uh June and so we need to decide do you want to extend it you want to extend it for how long do you want to keep it at a one dollar do you you know so we have a lot of information that we could we own the building we own the building I was closed when I was there with Ron so I never seen it we know yeah they do have online pictures in there see the inside of it but uh yeah they're there's a rough age and there's original everything original on the thing the furnace has been replaced twice the roof has been replaced twice um so that part is good and it's been replaced since the hail that we saw last May so that's good asphalt roof things it is there has been upkeeps they've done inspections on it before where they've updated the railing and a few other things on the building as well so have you said jackets for the how many people they're they're serving uh we spoke with uh Dennis Bartholomew who will speak later at the council meeting but uh he was saying that this time of year like on weekends they could get 500 to a thousand people in and out of their um in the batting cages during the day paying or like correct coming okay nope taking one minor step back um to what council member Wongs had just out of curiosity if we found a partner for any of these facilities I would be curious if we found a wonderful donor what the cost would be to convert um those old dilapidated tennis courts to the pickleball courts just to have a number in the back of her head where let's say 3M wanted to step up and fund these just to have a number in the back of her head so we could talk apples apples would kind of be nice in my thinking we can look into that you'd be starting over you'd be taking it out and starting over and rebuilding it but we can look into that yes I think the master plan for the parks would be really informative to see what kind of amenities would need to be there of course pickleball is super popular at the moment so that could be extremely likely but I do look forward to that Master Plan I think soccer is very popular around too so we have we don't have much when it comes to soccer either so it seems to be quite a bit compared to to some of the other to the baseball over the years huh it's for myself I'm thinking that the batting cages at this point in time is an asset if they're bringing that many folks in to recreate um in terms of a lease extension what that looks like I'm considering a shorter lease just because we do have a master plan potentially coming so to be mindful of that so maybe like on a year to year or year to two year basis would be my my thinking how big is the batting cages our square feet do we know I sorry I don't know that off top of my head and as for the batting cages do residents get a different rate there or is that kind of like a cross-the-board these are going to be great questions to ask Dennis I apologies thanks anything else anybody wants to I think we kind of and as far as if you don't mind uh moving on to the concession stands themselves I mean we could take it to um I'll put it on RFP we could speak to some agencies around town that might have the ability to do something like that for next steps if you'd like that traffic wise how much we got to find out what we owe and what we don't own to up there first I think part of it too and and that gentleman did reach out um and I was waiting to find out some information before we met with them to go over the exact piece of equipment but that will be happening soon does the high school have like a booster club or something like that that was an idea the VFW was an idea we have a foundation that we were looking at um so there were some other options but uh we haven't reached out yet perhaps an RFP would be appropriate struggle with a lot of school functions as it's run during the summer you know North High used to have Deca which used to run the coffee shop the community center that was really run during the school year so um and again I understand that there's the the you know it's like a dollar lease or whatever and there was um I've heard numbers anywhere from forty to sixty thousand dollars a year generated in um in revenues from that um if we put it out for RP I would like to see it maybe be two dollars double Armani will start low but um there's money generated there's money earned depending on where it goes City also has expenses to the building as well that again Parks don't pay for themselves and but it would like to see where we can make a slightly larger return I'd like to see that part of it put into consideration could that be a percentage or something some yeah nothing it's reinvested back into the field okay leery of a dollar agreements on anything because it's just you know we have a lot of expenses to be able to to keep up things and be able to make it whole but still be able to provide for the community and some Charities yeah it's hard to go down that road for me the 40 to 60 number is kind of in the Heyday of it over there I'm sure it was and nowadays it's people are really having issues with trying to get volunteers to show up them at them the firefighters had it for a while they did staff where do you want us to go um as Council where do you want us to go I apologize I think we have some good direction on the RFP for that you guys will still be able to hear some more input for the batting cages this evening and then um fields and well the fields just to make with the legion 75 yeah that has been passed by Council last November I believe it was um so unless you guys come from another resolution that's where we will be at um and his Legions as their their their contract their agreement so I think we have to stick with that even in my mind because it's it was there but I think they have to take care of their own field okay and then the cleanup or everything's about that is there a written there's a written agreement from mayor 1979 that they donated I looked it up because it was 50 000 for the lights so in 1979 so I looked up in a house cost 63 000 in 1979. so just to kind of get an idea what the value of fifty thousand dollars where the lights were compared to nowadays so there was that agreement there and it was going forward that type of thing so it was lifetime what's considered a lifetime that's why I don't like these contracts where we and anything where we have such open-endedness and I don't mean to put you on the spot they're Soren but I was going to ask oh yeah no Brandy and I talked about this a little bit and we looked into it um you know the you can enter into there's some technical nuances on this you can't enter into some forever contracts um it depends on the wording what you have that candidly is just plain as day as an intention for it to be forever um and that was kind of the deal that was cut with the city at the time and so I think there's the issue of sort of a pragmatic aspect to it it says what it says and you did get the lights we're still using the lights um I think we have arguments to suggest that you know contracts that are forever are disfavored but this was a resolution by the city you accepted the lights they're still being used so if we were to want to walk away from it I think we'd have to have some more involved discussions on that but in general that the resolution is pretty clear yeah and it was good faith on both sides so for me I would think we would be able to continue with that but just have them take over the the chalking and not you know like they had it before and all of a sudden some somebody handed you the equipment said here you're in charge of fields now goodbye so I think if that would and plus there was an agreement too that they would do any kind of cleanup so there is written language for that as well and you would like that in moving forward to do it that way do we need to vote on something like that Soren or no I think what we can do is Brian if you have Direction I mean there's an opportunity to reapproach them and just talk about kind of it's something we've looked at the agreement or the resolution was done in 79 we'd like to clarify some things it's been a while my lawyer math is failing me at the moment but it's been a while 60 70 years if I round up Tim you know I don't want the bill that much yeah [Laughter] um but I do I think it is a tricky situation because in general there are legal and Technical arguments to say that look the foreverness of it is presumptively invalid um I think what you have to just purely deal with is in the language on that resolution is clear as a governmental entity you accepted the lights you've been using the space that's been the deal do you want to create some sort of technical argument to get out of it to a community partner I think they're willing to work what the people that have reached out to me everybody's willing to work with what we have so I don't think it has to be anything like that in my opinion but if they will pitch in and get some of the costs for some of the you know the maintenance as far as the chalk and we'll mow like we always mow I mean that's not going to change because if Kunkel wasn't there you would still have to mow otherwise we'd look like Hillcrest Golf Course like so there's things that as owners of property we have to do no matter what it's the above and beyond in my mind hey let's work together on it anybody does that sound okay I think it's worth engaging in the conversation if if that's how people feel yeah they've been good to the community and we just I just want to make sure that we're Fair we're not going to give it away but we're going to be fair we have good direction from you guys so I think within regards to time okay we could wrap that up all right thank you so much thank you all right I'm gonna call do I have to do anything because I do this wrong every time just adjourn the meeting got your call for to adjourn the meeting um motion let me return the meeting sorry all right all in favor say hi thank you especially after