e e e e and welcome to City Hall I'm calling this meeting   to order before we begin we will  stand for the Pledge of Allegiance I pledge aliance to the flag of the United  States of America and to the Republic for   which it stands one nation under God  indivisible with liy and justice for all thank you Madame clerk can you please call the first  item approve the minutes of the special meeting   February 11th 2025 a supplement to the February  11th regular meeting minutes and regular meeting   minutes for February 18th 2025 are there any  items to be uh corrected from the minutes I see   none I move to approve the minutes of the special  meeting February 11th 2025 as well as a supplement   to the February 11th 2025 regular meeting minutes  and regular meeting of February 18th 2025 second   motion and a second any further discussion I see  none all those in favor say I I I all those oppose   same sign motion passes 60 Madame clerk please  call the next item public agenda the public agenda   allows for up to five speakers to have five  minutes each to address the council no action   will be taken relative to items on the public  agenda other than referral to the city manager   for information as necessary speakers will please  State their name and address for the record a Time   clock will display the speakers remaining  time to speak order and rules of decorum   will be observed we do not have any scheduled  speakers which now means there are up to five   individuals who can address the council all  you have to do is step forward to the podium hello my name is Henry Davis and I will  be reciting the gaybook address I live   in district one and I'm very privileged to be  here reciting this for you 4 score and 7even   years ago our fathers brought forth on this  continent a new nation conceived in liberty   and dedicated to the proposition that all men  are created equal now we are engaged in the   great civil war testing whether that Nation  testing whether that Nation or any Nation so   conceived and so dedicated can long endure we  are met on a great battlefield of that war we   have come to dedicate a portion of that field  as a find a resting place for those who here   gave their lives that that Nation might live is  altogether fitting and proper that we should do   this but in a larger sense we cannot dedicate we  cannot consecrate we cannot hallow this ground   for the brave men living and dead who struggle  here have consecrated it far above our Pro Power   are to add or detract the B below not no longer  remember what we say here but it can never forget   what they did here it's for us the living rather  to be dedicated to the unfinished work which they   who F here have thus so far nobly Advanced it's  rather for us to be here dedicated to the great   task remaining before us that from these honored  dead we take increased devotion from which they   gave the last full measure of devotion and that  we here highly resolve that these dead shall   shall not have died in vain that this nation  under God shall have a new birth of freedom   and that that government of the People by the  people for the people shall not perish from the [Applause] earth thank you very much  Henry can I ask you a couple questions   yes so how old are you what grade do you  attend school and which school do you   attend I am 9 years old I am in third  grade and I attend the classical school of witch next up Declaration of Independence uh Henry right Henry I just wanted to tell  you good job that is very impressive that   you memorized all of that so very good job  well done thank you thank you very much [Applause] Henry we now have time for four  additional individuals who would   like to address their councel during public agenda I see none we will now ask the city clerk  can you please call the next item consent agenda   items 1 through 26 are there any it items to  be pulled from consent I'd like to pull item 19 I will also pull items 11 and 13 no additional items to be pulled I will move   to approve the consent agenda  all items without 11 13 and 19   second motion and a second any further discussion  I see none all those in favor say I I all those   oppose same sign motion passes 60 we'll start  with consent agenda item in numerical order 11 good morning Gary good morning mayor and council  members um my question is about this project this   is a um nearly $36 million doar project along  Kellogg and Elm can you talk about this Blackley   Drive drainage Improvement and what it aims  to do and kind of a little bit of a history   uh regarding this area sure thank you mayor  council members Gary Jansen public works and   utilities Henry's a tough act to follow but  I'm going to see if I can I can do that so   the item before you today is some additional  funding to keep this project moving forward   particularly with what's going to be the first  phase of construction at the South End of the   project towards Kellog uh but I did want to  take the opportunity to kind of go back in   time and talk about some history of why why  we're doing what we are with this project   so uh Blackley is just east of Oliver from  Kellogg up to north of Central in this area   I always tell people if you ever have the  opportunity to go stand on Blackley at first   or second Street and look both East and West you  can see how much of a valley you're standing in so   this area this this neighborhood developed where  there used to be a creek many years ago a natural   drainage way pretty large Basin that came to this  area so it doesn't take much of a rain event to   create some real issues there's been historic  problems for many years uh we just haven't had   the opportunity to get to this point be able to  address them so got a couple pictures I wanted   to show you and then a video if I can get it to  play uh so believe it or not it has rained in   the last few years in Witchita but this wasn't  even that large of an event in summer of 2023   less than a 1inch event you can see what happens  with uh taking trash carts away uh water starts   to get curb to curb which which really becomes a  challenge for safety uh and I'll talk about that   more in a moment what's happened historically over  the years again this is a pretty small rain event this has happened often over the years when  you see uh this depth of water in the area   the upper right hand picture over the years W  Fire Department Public Works have had to put   out barricades for the safety of the public to not  go through the area uh when you get typically six   in of water will get to the bottom of most cars  where you can lose control and steering a foot   of water uh will float a vehicle and then 2 feet  of water especially with the type of velocity we   see in this area there's a lot of grade from  north to south it'll start carrying Vehicles   away uh we've seen and heard stories over the  years Don Henry our assistant director I know   was at a meeting at one point in time and  heard from a parent whose teenage daughter   had a carload of friends that their car was washed  away down Blackley towards Kellogg luckily it got   caught up at one point but you can imagine how  scary that was for them and for the parents uh   back in the 70s there was a fatality related  to the flooding uh luckily we haven't seen a   lot of that but there's some serious issues  that happen here with life safety over time   which is what we're aiming to address I'm  going to see if I can get this video to   play this is one you can Google um many videos  uh this was 19 or 2019 is 2015 is [Applause] [Applause]   so you can imagine five words you pronounce wrong  two years before your brain starts shutting down   dementia is now becoming a new epidemic according  to the Mayo Clinic I I kind of needed to see the   five words sorry let me see if I can get back  to this that's funny good job I'm about there   I'm there that happens uh has happened a  lot over the years so fortunately most of   the houses were built up high enough that that  I don't think there's been a lot of issues with   uh flooding into the structures uh but you can  imagine uh dealing with that especially if you've   got vehicles in the street um and it's just not  a safe situation at all that happens even in some   of the smaller events so um took us some time to  look through many options uh we got to a point of   really wanting to optimize cost versus benefit we  first started looking uh you've heard us probably   heard us talk over time about uh certain side  of events we talk about 100y year reign events   and we kind of started heading down that path to  see if we could take on what would be the largest   events we got to a project cost that exceeded  $100 million pretty quick and realized that   was just not going to work so we looked at the  actual rain events in this Basin over a 14-year   period I won't spend a lot of time on this but  I just want you to see some of the method how   we approached this and we started focusing  on what was those two largest events in 2015   and 2016 what we could do for infrastructure  improvements to try to really help because if we   can handle those types of events then the majority  of rain events that happen in this Bas and we're   going to see so much improvement and generally  not have those types of issues that you saw in the   pictures in the video uh this is kind of how we  depict what we're going to do uh and what we would   see for improvements and again I won't spend a lot  of time on this but just so you know what you're   looking the top map is an aerial view obious  obiously of blackly of what happens now during   that we modeled that 2015 event over to the right  you can see this where it shows the the as the   darker the blue gets is the deeper water so if you  just compare from top to bottom bottom is after   the proposed improvements you can see how much  lighter the blue gets it's narrower we're going to   really make improvements with this we've got some  cool technology uh that we can model these events   with the proposed improvements and really make a  difference Robinson uh Middle School is right in   about the middle between second and Central you  can see a much smaller area impacted there by the   school uh I know the Robinson principal said they  had a new teacher just in the last couple years   that had their car total during a rain event so uh  there's a lot of those stories out there a lot of   the problems that are associated with this area so  we took a look at uh the the US Geological Survey   looks at I mentioned depth of water and velocity  the combination of those two becomes a real issue   um and I can provide this detail to anybody if  you want to see it later this is something we   talked about early on in the project uh but  there's a factor that's put together between   depth and velocity where it starts to become  really life safety issue that's what we wanted   to combat first and foremost so with our proposed  improvements for what it's worth if you go to the   right side you see a lot less colored boxes  that means we're getting to a point that it's   not near as risky for anybody to be involved in  the area uh just talk about construction schedule   real quick again the item today is to provide  funding to move forward uh with what we would   call the bottom end of this project which is just  about as important as anything it's going to take   us some time uh to work through this project in  multiple phases we have to relocate existing Water   and Sewer this is a large underground structure  a large culit that needs to go in the ground uh   an Associated conveyance system uh there's some  at T&T relocation work that has to happen some   major fiber optic duct banks that serve all of  East wiah which will be a timing Factor right now   we're expecting that we could go all the way into  2028 with construction but we're trying to look   at multiple phases hopefully multiple contractors  and find ways to get through this quicker uh but   we will be kicking off the first phase pending  your approval today uh probably in the next 3   to four months total project costs mayor is you  mentioned is $36 million that's split out over   three different years funding from the storm  Water Utility Fund uh we have been there was   a base rate increase to for the storm water  utility back in 2017 We have basically been   building up this fund since that point in time  hoping hoping that we could find a way to build   this project so we're excited to get moving ready  to get first phase going we are going to make a   big difference here and it's definitely needed  so with that I'm happy to answer any questions   Gary one of the questions a Community member had  was there are other areas in the city that also   experience some major flooding events why  this one rose to the top and not the other   ones and I know that uh two or three weeks ago  this Council tried to apply for federal grants   regarding another flooding concern in district  6 unfortunately that Federal Grant application   is no longer available um but can you just talk  about you are still still looking at the other   areas of Witchita this just became a top priority  sure sure I think the combination of what happens   during the rain events in this Basin with the  depth of flooding and the velocity of the water   which are two important considerations made this  really rise to the top um there's not a lot of   areas that have to be barricaded as this one does  in an emergency situation even for smaller rain   events uh we've known I mean this is historically  been just been our worst area within the community   for many many many years but the cost Factor  has been a big part of that not knowing if we   could ever get to that point and when we first  looked at 100 million project it didn't seem   like it was attainable uh we do know there are  issues around the community you you mentioned   the the grant that we talked about and kind of  the core area some of that probably could be   considered a little bit more nuisance flooding  it is a problem it is impactful to development   but it doesn't generally have the same life  safety issues with it I think is really the   big difference between blackle and most others  what we would like to do once we get this project   moving forward and know that we've got the we  still don't know what the final cost is going to   be we feel good about our estimate at this point  at the $36 million is is sufficient once we get a   little bit further along nowhere we're out on this  project we'd like to start looking a little more   holistically with the council again of flooding  issues across the community and what it might   take to start uh future funding outlook for that  so we've got some thoughts on that and some ideas   I know I've talked to generally all of you at one  point in time about drainage issues within your   District so we have been developing a decision  support tool that prioritizes areas based on   Life Safety factors based on economic impact uh a  variety of things but especially Public Safety and   that's something we'd like to have a discussion  with the council hopefully relatively soon any further questions for Gary what you say uh  CF skin would be the next big big project that   we would focus on maybe the next biggest project  I guess of this scope potentially the so there's   different types of flooding and drainage  projects if you will uh that one is more   impacting development because there's a lot of  open areas there right by very nature of it um   I think we need to start looking at where some of  these fall into as part of that overall discussion   uh of where the focus should be next I think  it needs to be out there but the size of that   project is really going to lend itself to in my  opinion outside funding I just don't know that's a   place we can ever get to with our current funding  structure nor nor probably should we yeah I know   we we speak to our federal de delegation every  year and ckin is always up there so looking for   any help from the outside that we can get for  that expensive pro there's some development   that's beginning to happen in that area out  there um kot is is beginning a impact study   for what could be a future Northwest bypass the  combination of those two at some point in time may   end up addressing some of that flood it'll have to  if if any type of facility like that's ever going   to get built that flooding is going to have to get  addressed uh basically at the same time thank you   thank you Gary and again this is funded by the  storm water utility not the general fund correct   well I move um I see no further questions  I can't move it yet actually we have public   comment now so we stop with staff questions are  there any individuals from the public who would   like to address the council regarding this  item I see none I'll bring it back to the   bench I will move to approve the revised budget  adopt the amending resolution and authorize the   necessary signatures second motion and a  second any further discussion I see none   all those in favor say I I all those oppose same  sign motion passes 60 the next item is item number 13 hi mayor good morning Paul G one Public Works  and utilities um I pulled this item because I had   some residents in the community that did not  know that sidewalks are the responsibility   of the property owner um so this item in  particular can you talk about um have you   seen a Rise um a decrease or a steady uh  regarding sidewalk repairs and having to   put those on the tax role so I I went back a  few programs um starting in 2021 through 2022   and that program was in place from June of 21  through June of 22 um we had approximately 90   or 80 complaints that we had received that we  reviewed um we repaired approximately 990,000   feet of sidewalk and 111 wheelchair ramps the  following year 22 through 23 again that same   time period from June to June um again that was  um we received uh 90 complaints and again we we   repaired 990,000 ft of sidewalk and 88 wheelchair  ramps um since that time from July of 2023 through   December of 2024 um so far which is approximately  18-month period we have received 50 complaints we   have repaired 50,000 squ ft of sidewalk and 45  wheelchair ramps to date within that program   and yes it is per Charter ordinance 88 it is the  uh adjacent property owners's responsibility to   repair the sidewalk along their Frontage does that  also include snow removal it does yes any sidewalk   yes maintenance thank you any questions for Paul I  see none we will now open it up for public comment   I see none I'll bring it back to the bench I  again wanted to just point that information   out as some individuals in our community did  not know uh that information so I will move   to approve the proposed assessments place the  ordinance on first reading and authorize the   necessary signatures second motion and a second  any further discussion I see none all those in   favor say I I all those oppose same sign motion  passes 60 next item is consent agenda item number 19 thank you mayor good morning Scott good  morning um I pulled number 19 just because   it seemed a little bit unusual and so I just  wondered if you could give a brief overview   sure absolutely so this is a vacation case and  in this uh instance what's happening is that the   neighbor is is requesting that the city would give  up land that is currently in use is RightWay so uh   in this area it's a the neighborhood was developed  as a grid pattern this is on the Northern end of   that neighborhood where it abuts uh the the river  and so uh where the grid hits the river we have   one piece of street that has been developed as a  culdesac and is essentially used as just a private   driveway for the adjoining neighbor now what's  interesting about this case is that to the north   of it there is still some undeveloped land in  between the river and where the houses are located   and where this RightWay is that undeveloped land  is owned by the city there are three different   ways to get to that undeveloped land it's quite  a long piece of land because it's Where the River   bends this is the middle portion that you can  use to get to that land there are others to   the west and also to the East and as part of the  packet I would encourage you to look at the aerial   photo which is included in that packet because it  gives you a better illustration of this one so U   what we did with any vacation Cas is that we send  out information to the utilities um and a variety   of folks and in this case because the uh land  to the north is owned by the city we also sent   out information about it to the park Department  uh now with that said uh with this case as is   typical with vacation cases we do not typically  take these to the dabs we don't typically present   these to the park board unless requested so at  this point the only organization that's looked   at this has been the subdivision Committee of  the mapc and then the full mapc uh now there's   no deadline or anything with this in terms of  a time frame but um but that's the circumstance   uh is there anything any other questions that I  can help address I don't think so okay thank you   any further questions for staff I see none we'll  open it up for public comment on this item please   uh go to the podium state your name and address  and you have up to five minutes to speak on this item Stephanie Pitman uh 2828 North Wild Rose  Court which talk hands is 67205 um why if you   are and just uh question if you're considering  taking away uh public land especially in a   neighborhood area and giving it either to  a a private resident or for other use why   would you not take that to the dab in that  area and allow public comments from the neighbors that's just a open question to to the  council what what would be what would be the the   public purpose for not providing transparency to  this type of of action after your five minutes   we'll have staff answer but you have up to five  minutes to continue speaking I I think this goes   to why we are all here and why we uh identified  some transparency issues it's for issues like   this where neighborhoods are impacted people are  impacted this is the loss of of public land of   green space or of a right that individuals care  about and if we don't know that this is even an   option or if this is happening or this is about  to be an ordinance I I I feel like the Gettysburg   Address that we just heard really encompasses why  we're here it is government for the People by the   people people we want to know what happens in our  community if it's not transparently provided to   us we don't know and we can't comment so I would  just really challenge the council in situations   like this I noticed that there's a second one  uh for at 151st and 21st also uh land that's   about to be seated hopefully that goes before  some sort of a dab or uh at least Community   comments that is not not um in this where  you have to see an agenda so that that's my comment any further public comment I see none  we'll have staff address sure absolutely so   I think uh this gets to the nature of how much  public involvement how much public comment how   much uh public notice so for vacations vacations  run a wide Gambit it can be something as simple   as a water line easement or a setback on  a property that really just affects that   individual property all the way up to uh a  vacation of RightWay which is in this instance   a part of a street Network that then the request  is for the adjoining property owners to acquire   that part of this goes back to the history  about how RightWay is typically acquired   RightWay is typically acquired from the adjoining  properties that's why if it's vacated it goes to   the properties that are adjacent to it because  that's how originally it was typically acquired   the second thing is about the notification that  we do notifications for vacation cases require   a sign we also distribute letters to all of the  affected property owners that ABD that vacation   property so there are those opportunities for  public input because they are notified about   the upcoming subdivision meeting as well as the  Planning Commission meeting so they have those   opportunities and if we receive feedback  it can prompt a more intensive discussion   and review of that at other boards and other  committees but in this case that simply did   not happen uh we did reach out again to other  departments and organizations to see if there   were any concerns or issues with this and there  were not uh so it proceeded through the regular process Scott just for conversation is this  something that you guys mail letters out to the   neighbors as well I'm I'm sorry could you do you  guys mail letters for situations like this or does   that just for zoning no uh great question so we  do uh mail out notices for this one but it's only   to the abing property owners uh because those are  the ones who are primarily affected thank you and   again Scott notification was sent out regarding  this specific item to the adjacent properties   correct that is correct and did you guys receive  any type of feedback uh no I don't believe so   because one of them is the applicant and then on  the other side uh it's a neighbor I don't think   they had any issues with it otherwise it would  have been listed in the staff report thank you   and just as a reminder the difference between  an item that is um like this in consent versus   a new business can you just just address that  to the community um just in terms that uh a new   business item uh typically ends up there because  in some form or fashion it's been deemed to be   somewhat controversial that it warrants additional  discussion so at that point we know that it will   be discussed at the city council meeting uh  we prepare a presentation we've got talking   points point and then uh we go through that uh  deliberation and discussion when it's a consent   item uh we prepare the material of course in the  staff report there's the opportunity for a council   member to pull it um and if it gets pulled uh  then it's up for discussion similar to this   fashion with the ability for public comment uh  mayor if I could Council also has a policy that   it has approved that outlines the items that are  suitable for consent and anything that doesn't   fall into the categories listed by the council  must go to new business thank you Scott thank you   Bob any further questions this resides in council  member Maggie Ballard's District thank you mayor   I'd like to take the recommended action follow the  recommendation of the metropolitan area Planning   Commission and approve the vacation order um  SLE majority of seven votes will be required and   authorize the necessary signatures second motion  and a second any further discussion I see none all   those in favor say I I all those oppose same sign  motion passes 60 Madame clerk please call the next item Board of bids and  contracts dated February 24th 2025 morning mayor city council  Josh laber Department of Finance   the board of bids and contracts convened  February 24th 2025 for the following items   we have for engineering the water distribution  system sanitary sewer Street improvements to   serve Cotton Creek Estates Edition tied with  sanitary sewer to serve Cotton Creek Estates   and Colt Meadows addition for noat Construction  Company Incorporated for an aggregate bid total   of 8433 161.50 this is subject to your approval of  a new engineer estimate and budget authorization   on February 25th today we have the 2024  sanitary sewer Rehabilitation phase C for   AK construction for $326,500 for purchasing  we have the self-contained breathing apparatus   cylinders for municipal Emergency Services LLC  in the amount of $180,700 we have grip removal   services for the water treatment plant for Waste  Connections of Kansas Incorporated for the rates   listed for one year with two one-year options  to renew we have the transit facility electon   electric vehicle infrastructure rebid for Atlas  electric LLC in the amount of $135,100 we have   the scissor style 100K recessed vehicle lift for  automotive Equipment Incorporated for an aggregate   bid total of $188,500 we have the mowing mowing  of drainage way for contract change order for   commercial lawn management of witcha Incorporated  for an amended estimated annual usage of $57,400 80 we have four Skid  Steers for Dusen Bobcat North   America Incorporated for an aggregate bid total of $317,200 trailer with grapple bucket for  John Schmidt and Suns Incorporated for $10,750 we have one Bobcat tah Handler for  Dusen Bobcat North America Incorporated   for 9,433 38 we have the Cisco wireless  controllers for logicalis Incorporated for 9,736 69 this is how to become a  vendor with the city this is our   purchasing calendar of events that the  city is hosting or participating with our   small business Resource Partners and these  are open public opportunities out on the   street today and I be happy to try to answer  any of your questions and I recommend your approval questions for staff I see none I move  to approve the board of bids and contracts for   February 24th 20125 second motion and a second  any further discussion I see none all those in   favor say I I I all those oppose same sign motion  passes 60 Madame clerk please call the next item   petitions for public improvements good morning again Paul gunselman  Public Works and utilities for the record I have a   few petitions for your consideration this morning  the signatures on the petitions represent 100% of   the improvement district and the petitions are  valid per Kansas statute schy Johnson addition   phase three located in District 4 the project  will provide drainage improvements required for   a new residential development and to cover cost  of a private bid shy Johnson addition phase three   located in District 4 on on September 22nd 2020  the city council approved water sanitary sewer and   Paving improvements required for new residential  development the developer has submitted revised   petitions with revised budgets to shift the  project F financing from publicly bid improvements   to acquisition of privately constructed  improvements Pike addition Pike Third Edition   and Pike fourth edition located in District 4 on  December 3rd 2024 the city council approved water   and sanitary sewer improvements required for a  new residential development the developer has   submitted revised petitions with revised budgets  to reflect current market conditions and to cover   cost of a private bid and finally nrd Edition  located in District 2 on June 1st 2021 the city   council approved sewer improvements required for  a new residential development the developer has   submitted a revised petition to reflect current  market conditions it is recommended that city   council approve the new and revised petitions and  budgets adopt the new and amending resolutions   and authorize the necessary signatures and I  will stand for questions questions for staff   Paul just a reminder petitions for public  improvements are all on specials that is correct   yes thank you I move to approve the petitions for  public improvements second motion and a second any   further discussion I see none all those in favor  say I I all those oppose same sign motion passes   60 Madame clerk please call the next item council  member appointments and comments are there appoint   ments we'll start in numerical order number one  thank you mayor I would like to reappoint Kristen   stennet to the ethics board Lori Lawrence to the  sustainability board nikaela pack Natalie meron   Chelsea Jackson twiler Pur to the district  Advisory Board as well as kin Jackson as   the youth member to the district one Advisory  board thank you I would like to appoint ton   win to The District Two Advisory Board and  Chris staner to the transit Advisory Board   I've sent their names to the clerk thank you  thank you mayor I would like to appoint Dominic   gura reappoint Dominic gura to cultural  funding board uh Gary Schmidt to the land   bank Ibrahim Abdullah to the sustainability  board and Vicky Cheney little to the ethics board next y sorry um I would like  to reappoint um constant parasa to   the ethics board I'd like to repoint  Marv shellenberger to the uh housing board and I will appoint the following  individuals for the Witchita employees   retirement system Board of Trustees Jamie  Buster and to the wo executive board JV Johnston   I will move to approve the appointments  by council members and mayor second motion   and a second any further discussion I see  none all those in favor say I I all those   oppose same sign motion passes 60 we will  now move to council member comments we'll   go in numerical order thanks mayor today is a  day to go vote you have until 700 p.m. you're   voting yes or no on 259 and want to encourage  everybody to be informed and go cast their vote today I'd like to thank everyone coming  out I see a lot of golf cart people here   so I appreciate you coming out um won't be able  to speak today um but on the 18th we have our   night meeting March 18th please come to that  you will be able to speak and you'll see how   kind of sausage is made today and what ordinance  we come up with so I appreciate you coming out thank you all very much for attending the  workshop today I see no further comments so   I will move to adjourn the meeting for  February 25th 2025 second motion and a   second any further discussion I see none all  those in favor say I I all those opposed same   signed motion passes 60 we will now pass it  to city manager Leighton thank you mayor uh   we have a an very um packed agenda for you  so we'll jump right into it the first item   as the vice mayor mentioned has to do with uh  the operation of golf carts on public streets   we're going to share with you feedback from the  district Advisory board meetings and then seek   Direction on what you'd like to see brought  forward on March 18th for your consideration good morning Sharon deckra City Law Department I'm  here today to talk about uh the operation of golf   carts uh for background uh Kansas statutes  preclude the operation of golf carts um on   interstate highways on roadways with a posted  speed limit greater than 30 mph between sunrise   and Sundown and less they have a slow moving  vehicle emblem and motorcycle lights um cities are   not golf carts are not allowed in cities unless  they have passed the appropriate legislation   currently the city does not have an ordinance  allowing golf cart operation so the operation of   golf carts within the city on any City street is  illegal um any ordinance passed by the city could   not be less restrictive than state law we can  always be more restrictive but we can't be less   restrictive so any ordinance that would be passed  could not allow operation on highways or roads   over 30 mph could not allow operation during the  evening unless they have the slow moving emblem   and motorcycle lights penalties also cannot be  less restrictive U for most violations under the   state statute it's a fine of $75 in court costs uh  background several neighboring a smaller suburbs   have passed legislation allowing golf carts larger  cities uh have either specific Ally precluded the   operation or have not passed an ordinance allowing  such operation those are ovland Park Kansas City   Kansas top and Manhattan the current proposed  ordinance would allow operation of golf carts on   certain streets um it would prohibit golf carts  on highways arterial streets streets with speed   limit more than 30 miles hour and in the core  area the core area is essentially defined from   the river to hydraulic on the East uh us54 on the  south and Sy and then it winds kind of along the   river um golf carts under the current version uh  may not cross highways or aerial streets currently   the provisions that were uh recommended were that  all golf carts have the slow moving vehicle emblem   and a city registration the registration fee  proposed was $75 per year proof of liability   insurance is required and golf cart operation is  prohibited on sidewalks walking trails or paths   operation is prohibited between the uh hours of  30 minutes after Sunrise 30 minutes before Sunset   prohibits the operation of golf carts on public  streets unless the driver's 18 uh requires that   the golf cart require uh comply with General  traffic laws including maintaining liability   insurance um a spreadsheet has been provided  to you as part of the packet that outlines   the provisions from other neighboring cities  um there was a lot of discussion at the dabs   as to what other cities did or didn't allow so I  wanted it to be clear to the council as to what   what those Provisions were um most of the suburbs  around Witchita do allow golf cart operation at 16   Hayes has a limit of 18 um most of the Suburban  cities allow golf carts to cross streets with uh   speeds in excess of 30 m hour or arterial streets  most prohibit the crossing of major highways those   would be K15 and Derby uh us54 andf Ed um all  cities require driver's license and insurance   um no cities allow the operation of golf carts  on sidewalks or bike paths they do allow them   to cross those types of uh areas uh but require  the driver to uh essentially yield to pedestrian   traffic Derby and ala do allow for operation um  during the evenings with the slow moving emblem   and motorcycle lights which would be required by  state law the registration fees range greatly from   a one-time fee of $25 to $100 per year little  history uh the proposed ordinance was passed   on first reading on January 14th January 21st  when the ordinance came back it was pulled from   the consent agenda second reading and referred  to dabs uh dab presentations have been made to   five of the six dabs the presentation for dab  one is scheduled in March and the dab comments   were varied you should also have in your packet  a detailed summary of those dab comments the   next couple slides have General comments from the  dabs dab one has not had their presentation made   um spoke with council member Johnson uh the one  comment that he has heard is that the excluding   operation in the downtown core isn't fair to  core residents dab two comments um felt that   the ordinance was not needed um police didn't have  time to enforce um golf carts on roadways could   lead to more traffic accidents parking issues and  traffic congestion um overall my reading was that   the group was not supportive of the changes dab  three um was concerned that it may not be good for   all neighborhoods um seem supportive to operate  allowing uh folks to operate at 16 concerned as   to how this would affect other types of vehicles  the micro Vehicles the smaller motorcycles um ask   if it could be limited to certain Geographic areas  was generally not opposed but wanted some uh fewer   restrictions and appeared maybe some additional  restrictions on Miners and seat belts and trying   to keep folks safe dab four comments um felt  that the ordinance was needed uh that however as   written the restrictions were prohibited um golf  cart should be be able to cross streets age should   be reduced to 16 golf cart should be allowed  in downtown and that the annual registration   fee seemed excessive and that golf carts should  be allowed on wider paths and sidewalks and I   want to address that issue I spoke with um Paul  gunselman on the width of sidewalks um the width   of sidewalks in older neighborhoods is 4 feet some  may be 5T newer subdivisions the sidewalks are 5T   wide um sidewalks on arterial streets um are now  most of them six feet if it is a multi-use path   it is 10 ft um thought that information might be  helpful in looking as to whether uh we wanted to   allow some operation on those types of paths um  dab five was supportive of the ordinance however   felt that it was too restricted um wanted to  reduce the age to 16 allow nighttime operation um   address the seat belt requirement for older golf  carts that may not have come with them from the   manufacturer um had concerns about the amount of  the registration fee and felt that the golf cart   should be able to cross arterial streets um and  would like to allow operation on sidewalks if they   if the golf cart would yield to pedestrians um  dab six comments were kind of all over the board   um was initially supportive of the ordinance  um but felt that some comp compromise um and   some of the provisions might be necessary citizen  input um supported lowering the operation age to   16 opposed the core limitations or restrictions  and wanted to allow nighttime operations General   overview of the concerns that were expressed um  age to operate should be 16 golf cart should be   allowed to operate at night registration fee is  too high uh should it be a one-time registration   fee golf cart should be allowed to cross highways  and arterial streets um they should be allowed in   the downtown core area and a reexamination of  the seat Bel requirements um was also suggested   the current penalties are a infraction or a fine  up to $500 the judge will establish that amount   there are certain offenses that to be consistent  with state law are going to have to have a minimum   fine and a potential of jail time and those the  no insurance and no driver's license those are   minimum requirements that are set by state law  um I am here for questions I believe Lieutenant   Fort is here for questions from the police  department and we would stand for any questions or Direction go ahead Sharon uh one quick  clarifying question when when you say   one of the general ordinance concerns was golf  cart should be allowed to cross highways is and   arterial streets by Highway are we talking like  Kellogg and Oliver like going across Kellogg on   Oliver or like the actual highway I don't know  that that the commenters made a distinction um   I'm fairly certain that the police department  and certainly the Law Department wouldn't be   supportive of having golf carts cross Kellogg  K15 k96 254 um and those seem consistent with   what the Suburban areas are doing if you want to  cross Oliver we would need to tweak the current   ordinance but I think Highway highways um should  be left as we've defined it in the ordinance and   we've outlined what those actual highways are  um and and would clarify that the big if it's   a Highway by state law definition you shouldn't  cross it I agree that that was why I was I was   a little concerned about that a followup  question to that Highway question the city   of witchta doesn't maintain highways right Kellogg  is not maintained by the city of witta that is a   k do um maintenance issue is that correct I  think Paul left but yes generally speaking   that's true so K uh k42 would be another yes so  could the maybe the language regarding that say   only city owns streets it could it could yes you  you're you're still going to have to maintain the   limitation of the 30 m hour or less um but yes  I mean you could you could put that that golf   carts could cross streets take out any kind of um  distinction of arterial streets um and just not highways which we listed in the initial draft thank you Sharon I appreciate it you and I  have spent a lot of time on this so we have I app   appreciate your uh your effort on this um just for  discussion purpose just like to like to propose   the new ordinance include the following items  they would be allowed to drive on side streets   which 30 miles per hour or less uh would require  a valid driver's license so basically 16 and over   uh can drive at night with appropriate lights  and slow moving emblem per state regulations   uh may cross artillery streets at  controlled intersections allow on   sidewalks but must yield to pedestrians  uh the penalty would be lower to $200   I'd propose there be no City fee  and uh no requirement for seat bels just a followup um for anyone really the um  that was the next thing I was going to ask about   so allowing for crossing of arterial streets  that control um intersections a little bit   of maybe my concern is if we have sidewalks  that are 4T 5 foot and these golf carts are   probably taking up that whole Space are we if  we allowing them to legally drive on the road   as well how do they then cross the street like  cuz it would be if we just take Douglas you go   up to Douglas and market and you want to make  a turn to the north you don't have to go at a   controlled intersection if you want to turn there  I mean that's you're just regular traffic at that   point well Market is not would not be allowed  but I'm saying so this would allow this on on   the streets in the downtown market downtown  core though that would be the corri it would   allow in downtown Corridor but it have to be  on the sidewalk okay and the sidewalks have to   yield to pedestrians okay so you can only then  go you you can't be on the street but you can go   on the sidewalk and you have to go across the  street at the intersection correct does that   also include a crosswalk yes okay but we can have  bikes on sidewalks actually you can have bikes on   sidewalks just not in the downtown court right  that's what I mean yeah because are you alls yes in the core too so so okay so so your  exception would or your proposal would be   to remove the prohibitions of golf carts in the  downtown courp yes and then you want those golf   carts to be operated on just the sidewalks in  the downtown core that's correct the reason   for that is parking situations in downtown is  are limited and we were looking for other place   other means of Mobility bicycles uh walking and  I think golf carts is another one of those that   allow that Mobility deleno Oldtown downtown  so I think I think it'd be good to allow them   but they must yield to pedestrians so one one  concern or I guess to add to the conversation   maybe not a concern so I just had a really good  conversation with two downtown residents District   one and so our scooters are allowed in the  streets but we wouldn't say the golf carts   could be allowed in the streets and the golf  carts I think overall are probably safer than the   scooters CU you're just sitting on the scooter so  is that something we should also consider is just   letting the golf carts be in the streets and  not just on the sidewalk since less protected   scooters are in the streets I would answer that  is scooters are similar to bicycles bicycles are   allowed in the streets not in downtown and I BCL  are allowed in the street and downtown down street   I've driv downtown on streets I apologize  so I would say that's why scooters could   be allowed in downtown very s to bicycles golf  carts are wider and bigger take up more space   could impede the especially with the two Raceway  streets now yeah could impede traffic that's why   I would not allow them there and move them to the  sidewalks and and I've pulled up the ordinance on   electric scooters um the ordinance provides  that scooters are not to be on the sidewalk   um I see them on the sidewalk so I'm not going to  comment on that but but the ordinance does not I   mean the ordinance puts the scooters in the street  um and doesn't have them on the sidewalks so you   would be having golf carts in the sidewalks and  scooters in the streets I'm just I'm just looking   for clar clarification I've had a resident ask  me if this the golf carts are on the sidewalks   downtown what if there's someone on a wheelchair  downtown right there isn't going to be room like   a pedestrian a pedestrian I understand can maybe  skip to the side but I have a resident who had   concerns because they've seen it happen before  I don't know but what happens when a golf cart   would come and uh you know meet a wheelchair  then what would happen because one's going to   have to go in the street and piggybacking off  of that we have a lot of disabled residents   who are centered downtown uh perhaps blind  individuals who that might be an issue with them   walking along the streets we get knocked for that  already or along the sidewalk and then not see a   golf cart coming those that's the concern I guess  with the sidewalks downtown for myself as well I   I can't think of a sidewalk that couldn't  handle both of them in downtown maybe you   can give me an example but I can't think of  one yeah I'll drive through it today and see   what I come up with go just the field study yeah  there we go that's usually Dalton's things but to cross at a controlled intersection other  drivers if you come to the intersection are   going to be more likely to look for a  golf cart going across in the crosswalk   at a control intersection um rather than it  just zipping between maze or zipping between   Maple and Central and I see a lot of those  golfers just zip across maze um and and and   if you're not looking for them you're not going  to see them so when we say controlled that means   crosswalks is that the definition okay okay  or could could be a stop light or a stop sign too I got some concerns with the stop signs uh  so are we talking the stop sign on the arterial   Street to where the arterial traffic comes to  a stop yes I might more open to that if the   arterials come to a stop I don't like we said I  don't want them zipping across for sure right um   also the seat belts I think we need to at least  have seat belts for miners that is something my   district Advisory Board was um pretty pretty  adamant about I think especially uh one quote   was I would feel prettyy bad if I hit a baby that  fell out of a golf cart so I'm glad that District   three is against running babies over I'm proud  of that one but um there's concern about that at   least um and that's that follows in line I guess  like if you're under 16 I believe you have to have   a seat Bel regardless in a car I can't remember as  of 16 IR regardless of where you're sitting in the   in the car I I would answer that is manufacturers  don't have the option of seat belts at this time   it's an add-on uh which is pretty expensive to  add add seat belts onto a golf cart um we may   want to limit the the golf cart to the number of  riders in the allowed in the cart so if it's a if   it allowed for two riders only two people can can  ride in it if it's four only four people can ride   um there was a lot of conversation about the seat  belt situation at many of the meetings that I went   to as well because some of the older um golf carts  like I said they don't come with those um from the   manufacturer and I think either at the reflection  uh meeting or District 5 maybe it was even mine   they said it would like5 or $600 to um figure out  how to add the um a seat Bel on so while I'm a pro   prone of driving with cars but I think there were  also comments that if it tipped over something and   you're strapped to it you wouldn't be able to  get out um so I don't know these are just kind   of comments um that were shared at some of the  meetings that I was with in regards to seat belts   five or $600 I can respect that but it's still  safety of children that we're talking about here   so um if you're wanting to drive a golf cart if  you don't if you want to have kids in there you I   think maybe you should have the safety devices in  there so I that that's just a concern of me um and   then the $75 fee um if we're going to permit this  we need to make sure that we pay for it somehow so   that way we're not digging out of the general fund  for licensing golf carts or permitting golf carts   so I do um I am on board it can be a one-time fee  you know so that way we don't have to continue to   go back to it and the permits can last a couple of  years it doesn't have to be a yearly fee but I do   believe that if we're going to permit it that um  paying for the additional work that's going to be   done would be needed so we don't what if we don't  permit at all which is the case now so we wouldn't   have to regulate it the ordinance could say it  has to have you have to have insurance on on the   golf cart yes I mean you could require that the  golf carts have insurance the the issue is going   to be one of enforcement for the police department  that if I see the 14-year-old kids that we all I   think agree we don't want operating on the roadway  and there's a golf cart and no one's going to say   who owns the golf cart where does a golf cart go  what happens to the golf cart um who is notified   that the golf cart um may or may not be impounded  if there's nobody there to take the golf cart and   then there's absolutely no way for the police  department to notify hopefully the kids tell   their parents what happened to the golf cart um  but there's no way for the police department to   notify because these aren't a registered vehicle  so there's not a not a VIN number to look up in   the state database because there's no no tag I I  did talk to a couple policemen about that issue   and and they said and there is a a problem with  12 13 14 year olds driving golf carts with six   or seven people hanging off of it so there is  a problem there um he said if if they see that   happening they pull that golf cart over there's  no way they're going to let that golf cart leave   without those kids telling them where they live  and who owns that golf cart so if they run home   he's got the golf cart there parents going to  wonder where the golf cart is so if if you're   okay another question I guess would be if your  license is suspended or restricted due to maybe a   DUI or something like that how does that apply to  the golf carts does it mean that your golf just I   think you have to have a valid driver license  so like fully a fully instated M um driver's   license to where there's no restrictions on it or  anything cuz a lot of times if you get that DUI or   you have your license suspended you know a lot of  times you might just get a restricted license to   where you can drive maybe to the grocery store  or to to work um or to church or something and   you know people still might be using the golf cart  to do something like that drive to work or I don't   know necessarily if they drive to work but maybe  to the grocery store or something like that so   uh how would that apply if we have um restricted  license to the to the golf cards we we we can't   be outside whatever restrictions the state of  Kansas is given on the golf cart um and I think   the conversations that I have seen at the dabs  were that they wanted it to be a non-restricted   license but if I have a restricted license and I'm  operating go a golf cart golf cart cards a motor   vehicle so depending upon what my restrictions  are um we can't override those restrictions I   think it needs to be a valid license just flat  out I mean otherwise it just starts to get really complicated like you be 16 and  I have a valid license you know any further discussion does that give staff enough  to redraft something to bring forward and I know   that council member Johnson's going to have his  dab meeting on Monday um would there be enough   time to even start sharing it with some of the  dabs again before the March 18th meeting we won't   have a draft by Monday and we're already going  to be at that dab so if there are are dabs that   want to rehear it again we might be able to do I'm  just thinking what the schedule's like and whether   your dabs are cancelled that week when you're all  gone for NLC um won't work mine is no won't work   ours is Monday also okay that FES Monday and then  we're going next week and I hate to read I mean I   yes I I could have a draft of of some of the  changes by Monday but do you want and I'm   looking at council person Johnson do you want the  old version or the new version um good question   that is a really good question if you if it  cannot be ready on Monday the old version is   okay because I would give my dab an opportunity  to give the same type of feedback if it is done   the N will be able to give feedback on on what  has come of all the other feedback okay I don't   really have a preference on that okay I do have  a going back to my original thing um I kind of   have a concern if we're treating scooters and  golf carts differently and I don't know if that   impacts whatever you draft but I do think we  may need to continue to talk more about that   if if we're going to have golf carts on the  sidewalks and scooters in the street but the   golf carts are bigger and the scooters are and  I I understand how they could be seen as similar   to bikes but I just think that's a little I  think that needs further clarification those   are policy questions um and and you know can  you allow scooters on the sidewalks yes um my   thought is if you're going to allow scooters on  the sidewalks are bicycles in the downtown core   should they be prohibited and that's been a long  kind of internal conversation since most of the   unh hous have bicycles and they're in downtown  um whether that's enforced whether that should   be enforced and again those are policy questions  um but I would tend to agree that consistency   would be nice whatever that consistency ends up  to be jie would you mind repeating the proposed   the new proposed ordinance please sure sure I i'  propose that they be allowed to drive on streets   30 miles per hour or less um per state statute uh  have a valid driver's license um drive at night   with appropriate lights and a slow moving  emblem also per state ordinance St state   law uh may cross artillery streets at controlled  intersections allow on sidewalks but must yield to pedestrians um no City fee no fee  to permit it and uh no requirement   for seat belts I'd also like to  lower the penalty to $200 from 500 think 500 a little excessive I have a question  for Sharon how um as far as the fee Go I mean the registration do you think that's something  important to include regardless of the fee   do you think the registration portion is  something that needs to be included I I   think the registration would be helpful so that  we know who owns the golf carts um whether they're   abandoned whether we impound them whether we reach  out to the owner um that would also be important   that currently there are Provisions that the owner  shouldn't allow their 14-year-old to drive the car   um and without some sort of a way to track down  that owner um and I don't know what that would   be um without the registration regarding the fee  um most types of registrations we have we try to   offset staff costs um public or not Public Works  uh purchase uh Finance um indicated that the cost   of staff to process the fee to buy the decals and  and mail them out get them out um would be about   $35 so even if you brought it down to 25 which  is consistent with what the other cities are   doing whether that's a one-time fee of of 2550  or whether that's a 25 renewal um I don't know   that and again I don't know where the police are  um that a yearly uh registration is necessarily   required um as long as we build in some sort of  a requirement that if I sell my golf cart lease   my golf cart that they notify the the person  or notify purchasing or not purchasing notify   Finance um that they no longer own that golf  cart so sorry Sharon just to clarify and maybe   vice mayor if you can clarify so you don't you're  proposing no rec no registration no registration   fee that's what I'm proposing but you have to have  a slow moving vehicle sticker that's per state law   okay yes the the slow moving vehicle is just  the tri Tri angle so that's not something that   the city would provide anyway you would have they  would have to go to I don't know Auto shout Zone   whatever um Tractor Supply um to get that type of  an emblem and those would the way I understand it   those would only be required if the individual  wanted to operate their golf cart at night so if   I if I know that I'm just going to drive my golf  cart from my house to the pool and the pool closes   at dusk or whatever and come back you wouldn't  necessarily have to have the motorcycle lights and   the emblem on your golf cart if you know you're  going to drive it to the humodor and stay until   midnight then you better have lights and you  better have the triangle do the other cities   that you looked at do they require registration  I'm sorry the other um cities comparable cities   that you look to do they require registration as  well yes okay thank you except could registration   be at the point of purchase instead of coming  down to City Hall to do it what if you buy your   golf cart in Oklahoma they wouldn't know well no  it'd be another option for people to get them if   you buy in Oklahoma you have to come to City Hall  to do it but I would imagine easier places or the   library or most of our license and registrations  are done electronically uhuh so I don't know that   the person would necessarily have to come to  City Hall it would be a matter of do it online   and again I can't speak to finance for for  finance but to me it would be much like the   dog registration that I'm going to register my  dogs I'm going to fill out all the paperwork I'm   going to submit my my credit card online and then  when they go oh yep Sharon has three dogs she can   have an animal maintenance permit they're going  to mail that to me okay okay I know when I did   my the vet did my mother's dog uh came with the  annual visit he filled out the the paperwork said   here here include check for 30 $25 something like  that $25 and mail it to this address you mail it   you can also scan it do it online yeah or you  can do it online okay yep okay another concern   from my dab is the possibility of other types of  vehicles sneaking in under this um could you could   you give a description as to exactly what the  parameters of it being considered a golf cart are we tried to address that the best we could in the  definitions um which Define an allterra vehicle a   golf cart a micro utility truck um a golf cart is  a vehicle that has less than three wheels weighs   less than 1,800 lb is designed to be operated not  more than 25 miles hour and designed to carry not   more than four people um and the goal um was that  we would not include the ATVs the Gators um micr   trucks um micro bikes um within those definitions  so certainly the intent is that this is just a   golf cart um and if you don't have a place in the  back for your clubs it's probably not a golf cart   if it goes 45 miles per hour it's probably not  a golf cart do we have any examples of any um   of the the places that have allowed this as to  maybe some other types of vehicles um being snuck   in under this um I don't have any information or  knowledge I will say that there are other again   there Suburban cities that do allow Gators and  do allow ATVs and they have an all-encompassing   group of special purpose Vehicles definitions  um but certainly I think it's staff's intent   and again the intent of the city council to limit  this to golf carts so that we don't have a sudden   influx of microt trucks and and micro bikes  all around witch do and throw a bag of clubs   over the the back seat of a riding llow and ride  down the street right maybe I I know that shaie   and OA both have it limit to to just golf carts  not all train Vehicles yeah okay I yeah I just   want to make sure we're not getting uh sneaking  something in here so that that's a concern not   to continue belor in the point but I this whole  sidewalk thing like really has me thinking and I   don't know if we talk to bike walk witchar or  anything but no matter what we do on this I do   think maybe we should engage um bike walk wiah  the partnership especially with the downtown   survey about to start I've already talked to them  a little bit and um shared information with Gary   and Paul about Douglas because they kind of  want to put that in their surveys maybe we   can look at the core in general what's allowed  on the sidewalk in the street and maybe give   more broader feedback in that way and at some  point council-- wise align our ordinances with   that public feedback to where we have consistency  rather than some things here and some things there   yeah I think that's a good idea and and I I don't  you were here I think Becky was here when they   allowed did not allow scooters on sidewalks so  I mean I'd like to kind of hear the reasoning   for that um because for me like Sharon I see it  all the time on sidewalks and I I think they're   safer on sidewalk than they are in the street  I think I think it had to do with the downtown   congestion on the sidewalks which was the same  thought process with not allowing bicycles on   the sidewalks in the central business district is  if you have people trying to walk to work um and   you have scooters zipping and bicycles zipping and  do you want your sidewalks to be for pedestrians   or do you want your sidewalks to be essentially a  multi-use path well at some point in time I hope   we have enough people walking to work on the  sidewalks in downtown haven't seen it yet we   had also mayor if I can we had safety data from  other cities uh that put prohibitions in place   because of uh conflicts between pedestrians and  uh scooters and that's why the council forced them   out into the street we were also worried about the  safety of the scooter riders right because they're   going at a faster Pace than someone walking  and somebody leaves a restaurant or a retail on   list for example in somebody's going on a  scooter 10 or more miles an hour it could   cause them to be injured so we're worried about  pedestrians but also scooter drivers I just want   to reiterate one more thing I said it during  the council meeting um my dab also reiterated   it um we do the community survey every year and  we find that crime prevention is one of the top   three issues in our community and my dad was very  concerned about this is an issue that police just   don't have time to enforce so that's still going  to be on the back of my mind during this it's um I'm not sure where I'm going to land yet but  that is probably my number one concern especially   after speaking with the witto police department  many times that you know what is going to be the   burden on them that's going to take away the  core function of what they need to be doing so   thank you I did I did talk to Chief Sullivan about  that issue how can we get it enforced and he did   mention the same points you did which I  do agree with he suggested that the uh   traffic his traffic team uh would  enforce it instead of the police officers his traffic team may not always be it's  not just going to be the core right it could be   down web road or it could be you know whatever  so the point is they're all over the city so   they could they could do yeah yeah just safety is  still a concern but also our police officer time I'm not going to belabor the conversation but I  did have a quick question when this was originally   proposed to us there was a $75 annual fee I wanted  to know the justification behind that now knowing   additional information that just came forward  which is it's going to cost $35 if it's a one-time   fee just the processing staff time Etc I always am  mindful that there is Staff time to be considered   in any new item that we do and I want to know  that we number one cost recover that's number   one um but then now 75 seems very excessive so I  just want to know the justification why it was so   excessive the the initial draft had 25 and then  when we started looking at actual costs for that   first year startup to get the the licenses printed  or the decals printed um staff felt that it was   that 25 was not going to be a cost recovery and in  talking with Mark Manning 25 won't be a complete   cost recovery for his staff um so whether you  wanted to have the first year be 50 which would   allow more of that cost recovery when we have  the decals and then every renewal be 25 um that's a process that some of the other smaller cities  have used um that they do still have the annual   fee it's just the first year it's higher  the you get the decal it's it it it's in   effect it's going to go or reduce it to 25 each  year and again that's a policy decision I think   75 was what staff felt needed to happen at least  that first year to make sure that we could get the   appropriate documentations online staff time to do  the registrations um the cost to have the labels   printed or the decals printed um so somewhere  between 25 and 50 would recover most of Staff time   so I'll be on the record by saying that I'm in  favor of council vice mayor Johnston's idea of no   registration fee the whole idea I I believe when  this came forward was to legalize uh the usage of   golf carts and not further put restrictions and  so it was a first step and now that first step is   getting additional steps obviously with Community  input through dabs and an additional Workshop   so I'm going to just go on the record by saying  that I'm in favor of coun vice mayor Johnston's idea any further questions for staff I see  none thank you very much Sharon thank you city manager you're good mayor I have the next item um I'm concerned about  timing because I know some of you have to leave   um around 11:30ish so I'm going to start my item  actually Mark Manning's here I'm going to switch   the order I'd like Mark to talk about the status  of our budget and then I'm going to talk about the   five budget research projects that we have done  in the interim since the adoption of the 2025   budget the reason we originally wanted to talk  about those was that they they're feeding into   the narrative for 26 and 27 but I can I don't  think we'll miss anything by switching the order   so with that Mark I'm going to turn it over to  you to talk about our forecast for the upcoming budget well good morning uh mayor members of the   city council I'm Mark Manning  with the Department of Finance you can stand on it if you want to uh  today I want to kind of kick off our   2627 budget process and we typically  do that uh Pro by providing you an   updated forast on where we think we'll be uh  we'll focus uh primarily on the general fund today uh and then I at the end of the presentation  just very briefly I'll touch on three other topics   I think I have one slide on each we'll talk about  the RNR just very briefly and we'll talk about   the budget calendar then we'll talk about some  next steps so uh we do a financial plan every   year we typically start about February and we do  a preliminary one and we update it continuously   throughout the budget process and ultimately it  leads to what we consider the adopted financial   plan which is included in your adopted budget  that is to say The Current financial plan is   the adopted budget financial plan which we did  back in August so obviously it's a little dated   because that was about 6 months ago so we'll go  over some uh things that we're seeing and and   some potential changes to our environment uh now  I would tell you with certainty there's only one   thing that I can absolutely with 100% certainty  tell you about our financial plan particularly   what I'm going to present to you this morning and  that is that it will change uh because again this   is an iterative process so how do we develop the  financial plan uh we look at a lot of empirical   data and Trends on all our revenue streams  they're all influenced by different things   and we study and analyze that and try to use that  to uh provide a educated estimate into the future   we spent a lot of time on that uh we also look  at our external environment there's a lot of   influences on our Revenue portfolio uh Federal  monetary and fiscal policy uh State legislation   economic conditions a variety of factors we look  at we coordinate with our departments particularly   in the area of revenues that they generate  uh for example user fees and things of that   nature we incorporate any update policy Direction  anything that you have approved since August that   would impact our forecast and finally uh I would  point out that when we do this our objective is   to try to provide a middleof the road forecast we  try not to be too optimistic we try not to be too   pessimistic our objective is to be as accurate  as possible but we try to mitigate both upside   and downside risk to some degree so I'm going  to go through four large uh revenue streams into   the general fund uh those are the ones that are  probably most relevant for our purpose purposes   uh we have a lot of other smaller streams but  again they're they're they tend to uh operate   fairly predictably and are far less relevant  property tax as you know is about 36 37% of   our general fund Revenue stream so it's very  important to us it's based generally speaking   on three variables assessed valuation which  is the size of the tax base it's based on the   mill Levy rate which uh we set or city council  sets and then it's based on delinquencies so   we won't get our assessed valuation estimate  until July 15th that's a date based on statute   however uh the county I think last week gave some  preliminary indication about assessed valuation   which is very helpful for us and so we'll use that  to kind of inform what we think our guidance may be so assessed valuation growth has several  components really two that are are really   relevant and that is new construction which  is expansion of the tax base and that's at   the top of the chart and and then reappraisal of  the existing tax base which is the reappraisal   line there those are really the two key drivers of  our assessed valuation growth the new construction   generally in most cases increases about 1 to 2%  a year fairly consistently uh we might have a   3% year and really booming times we might have  a 0% year but that one's relatively stable in   the 1 to 2% range and you can see that's what  our guidance is reappraisal on the other hand   if you look at the long term reappraisal growth  is going to be somewhere in the 2 2 and a half%   range longterm 20 25 years but there's a high  degree of variability on reappraisal primarily   due to economic uh situations during the great  financial crisis we had four years of zero growth   in reappraisal uh the last couple years we've had  pretty aggressive growth in reappraisal so it's   a high degree of variability but it generally  speaking is around 2 and a half% a year uh if   you look at the long term you can see last year  in 2025 our reappraisal or our total assessed   valuation growth was about almost 8% which is very  high for us here uh locally uh you can see uh what   we're expecting now again kind of informed by what  the county told us trying to make some inferences   into some of the indications that they provided  uh we now expect somewhere in the neighborhood   a 6% growth in 2026 and maybe a little bit of  a taper off in 2027 again this is really early   uh so I have no doubt that number is going to  change uh I think the county mentioned that the   appeals process is next uh and that undoubtedly  will reduce valuation to some degree there's a   few other nuances State assessed utilities aren't  done typically until June or sometimes even July   so there's there's many things to continue on  this story but we the just of it is we do think   assessed valuation growth will be stronger  than what we initially projected which means   uh based on our current M Levy policy that our  property tax revenues will probably be stronger   than what we had previously thought so let's  shift to sales tax sales tax is probably the most   economically sensitive Revenue stream we have it's  usually kind of serves as our Canary in the coal   mine if we start seeing changes in our economy  we're probably going to see it on sales tax first   uh we had a relatively slow growth year last year  uh but since we really weren't in recession we're   going to attribute that primarily to the stimulus  that uh happened during the pandemic uh that's our   that's our hypothesis so to suffice to say we  expect more normative growth in the future uh   that's generally around 2 and a half to 3%  obviously this is one of those ones that we   will keep a very close eye on we get monthly data  so it's pretty easy to kind of identify Trends   I want to point out another thing on sales tax  that impacts our growth in sales tax and this is   somewhat out of our control based on state formula  our portion of the countywide sales tax is based   on a state formula half is based on population  of the city of witto Vis ofv everybody else in   the county half is based on taxes levied in other  words uh we can control what we Levy but we can't   control what the others jurisdictions Levy so our  percentage tends to change a little bit which can   also have an influence on our sales tax it's  generally been declining over the last 10 or   15 years typically not a lot but generally  our percentage of the countywide sales tax   has declined and the inference there is that the  taxes levied by the city of witto over that time   time period generally has become less of a portion  of the total taxes levied in our County so let's   uh jump to franchise fees I think I talked about  this last week and talked about the difficulty in   projecting franchise fees this is probably the  most difficult Revenue stream that we tried to   project uh weather conditions uh I am not I I'm  not qualified to to forecast weather conditions   at all especially in Kansas uh commodity pricing  natural gas is a huge influence uh just to give   you a little example some of our franchise fee  Revenue over the past few years if you look at   Electric in 21 we collected $27 million in 22 we  collected $31 million and then in 23 we collected   uh uh 29 million so we had a $2 million dip and  then last year as I noted last week we collected   31 million very variable natural gas is even  worse in 21 as far as variability in 21 we   collected about $8 million natural gas in 22 we  collected 11 million 23 we collected 13 million   and then last year we collected 10 million  so my point is it's it's it's a challenge   for us to project we typically uh project very  conservatively on franchise fees to try to D   drisk our estimate one other thing you should know  about franchise fees a lot of our franchise fees   are a cake uh we tax where we have franchise  fees on landline phones for example uh I don't   know too many people maybe some but not a lot of  people have landline phones anymore so okay we got   one thank you very much sir you're contributing  to us I'm I'm a 98y old stuck in a 42 year old body another archaic source is cable TV oh okay  thank you uh back you know 20 years ago 30 years   ago cable TV was it if you wanted anything  other than Network TV now there's hundreds   or tens of choices you know YouTube TV peacock uh  Netflix the list goes on and on so point is those   two are are are downward drags on franchisees  so it's a challenge to forecast and we don't   expect a whole lot in that area uh a whole lot  of growth typically I talked about court fines   last week so I won't say a whole lot suffice  to say it's based on activity levels in our   court system and those have been declining  we view that as a systematic change uh not   as a transitory change and you're going to see  that reflected in some of our estimates uh that   also have an impact presumably on the expenditure  side I noted last week that we underspent   significantly on operations for example last  year in court we underspent by about a million   dollars on the expenditure side not a direct  offset of the two million we lost on Revenue   but the point is both expenditures and revenues in  court are impacted by uh activity levels so let's   talk about interest earnings this is probably the  most relevant Revenue stream that tells our story   over the last three or four years and tells the  story of what we expect in the future uh so let   me back up just a little bit and and give you  a quick summary of Where we've been and where   we think we're going to go on a global basis  so after the pandemic uh we uh by policy we   determined that we needed to increase employee  wages due to maintain competitiveness and due to   the inflationary impact on our city employees uh  we successfully did that uh through contractual   Provisions with several of our bargaining units  but that increased our wage base uh however uh   during that time period we also had very very  strong interest earnings and growing interest   earnings and we also had some years of good  AV growth so that essentially allowed us to   accommodate that growth in the wage base but our  our hypothesis going forward has consistently been   for several years at some point we expect interest  rates to decline we expect assess valuation return   to normative amounts and when that happens  we do not believe that our organ organic   Revenue growth will be sufficient to cover our  organic expenditure growth which is to say we   expect structural deficits that's we talked  about that last year we talked about that   the year before that that's been a consistent uh  theme that we expect to happen the only question   is when and to what magnitude in my opinion and  you'll see we think the magnitude will be a little   bit less and the wind keeps getting shoved out a  little bit which are both good but fundamentally   that's the uh presumption that we uh have based  all our projections particularly in the the very   long term on uh that structural challenge that  we have also point out that interest earnings   are not my highest priority when we're investing  the pool my first priority is safety of principle   and this is by policy the investment policy that  you approve the second priority is liquidity we   don't want to run out of cash when we need  it earnings is only my third priority now   we take it very seriously and we've been I think  very successful in maximizing earnings but just   suffice to say it is not our highest priority uh  is in in terms of managing the pool uh actually   I should point out on this slide to give you a  scope of the magnitude in 2021 we generated about   $1.4 million 1.4 million uh back then if I could  invest something and get four bips I was really   excited I mean that was a good day if I could get  four bips on something four bips by the way is 0   4% uh you know now we're investing basically  at 4% or literally a 100 times greater than   the rate back then so uh that kind of explains  the magnitude on why we went from 1 million to   about $35 million in interest earnings so uh  that that's what's going on there when that 4%   rate starts to drop that's when you'll just see a  decline in our interest earnings last thing I'll   point out is that decrease will be extended into  the future because we invest relatively long term   we typically extend the duration of our Investment  Portfolio when we expect to be in a rate falling   environment which is where we're at today so we  we have extended our duration generally to the   max of our policy limit which basically means  our our interest earnings are relatively stable   for at least a year year and a couple months uh  so our risk is actually after that time Horizon   for the most part a lot of technical information  but I wanted you to have that background because   you'll see that in the numbers here just a minute  so let's put that all together what does that mean   for our Revenue side well the top line is what we  would consider our current forecast which again   is six months out of date the Pim forecast is  what I'm telling you today uh which you'll see   is more favorable which is a good thing and 25 uh  Court revenues is going to impact us and we think   that'll actually decrease our revenues a little  bit from where we were before but what you're   seeing here is the impact of more aggressive  assessed valuation growth assumptions and more   aggressive interest earnings assumptions got  a little bit more detail on this slide uh same   thing you'll see you'll see the property tax tends  to compound as the base increases uh so that's   why you see 27 a little bit higher than 26 uh  interest earnings again we expect the decline   to occur but to be slower than what we previously  expected and then as I mentioned Court findes we   expect to be a systemic problem and ongoing uh  so those that's the detail of how we got to our   preliminary estimate I can't emphasize enough what  I've already said I think twice this will change I   have no doubt this will change but this is where  we're at today so let's shift to the expenditure   side uh as you know expenditures are generally 75%  salaries and wages uh which is a lot now those are   relatively easy for us to project uh conceptually  uh what we typically do is we update that every   year we look at our employee demographic wage  base in January or February we literally look   at every single employee and we literally project  out their wages based on what we know about their   demographics what their contractual Provisions are  and a variety of other things so we're typically   pretty accurate there based on the assumptions we  make uh we do assume when we do that that every   single Position will be filled and that's really  important I I'll mention why that's important here   in just a second uh we do that because we have no  idea who's going to terminate or quit or resign   between now and you know the end of 2027 so we  don't make that assumption specifically so we   assume all our positions are filled and then the  last thing we do is we look at everything else   all our contracts all our Commodities and right  of influences on those uh we're working through   that right now that's a lot more timec consuming  a lot more detailed uh so we will continue to work   on that as we go forward so let's talk about  the two key assumptions on salaries and wages   I mentioned that we use the contract Provisions  that we have we generally have three bargaining   units that impact the general fund two of those  are under contract through 2026 that's very   helpful for us for projection purposes uh we don't  have to estimate we know pretty much exactly what   wage rates are going to be so that gives us a high  degree of certainty in our forecast for that wage   base uh one unit will expire at the end of this  year so we have two years of uncertainty with that   one particular unit uh so what we're going to do  is we're going to make an assumption on what wage   growth is going to be when those contracts  expire again that is just an assumption for   planning purposes uh and we generally have a more  conservative assumption than what wage rates have   been in the past as I noted in the past we spent a  lot of time and energy on addressing inflationary   concerns and uh comparability concerns I think  we largely achieved that objective and so our   assumption is that wage rates will moderate to a  a more normative level in the future and I'll show   you that in a second let me introduce to you the  concept of shrinkage I mentioned that we budget   to fill 100% of all our positions we know that  is not going to happen it's not true today for   example uh so we know that again we don't know  who's going to terminate when we know based on   historical Norms generally what our turnover rate  is and what we generate and then we're going to   customize that a little bit based on what we know  today uh which is the number of vacancies we have   today shrinkage is a very important assumption  that we make uh if we guess too high then we   come at the end of the year and I tell you that we  have a deficit we we overestimated the amount of   turnover or like like what I told you last week  ago last week we tell you we underestimated the   amount amount of shrinkage we had more turnover we  were less successful in filling positions and we   over shrunk which is fundamentally uh part of the  message that I provided to you last week so those   are the two key assumptions we'll continually  look at shrinkage we'll continually consider the   appropriate amount for employee compensation when  our contracts expire but those are really what are   going to drive our expenditure uh forecast in a  in a macro sense so you can see here we expect   our expenditure base to be smaller than what it  was particularly in 20 25 and 26 I think in 27   what you're seeing is just the uncertainty by  not having contracts in place and some of our   assumptions on what those contracts may be again  that's couple years down the road based on a lot   of assumptions but uh it's at this point it's uh  uh the best we can do we'll continue to tweak that   but the good news is we think our expenditure  base will be smaller than what we thought last year uh this is just the detail on that  what you're seeing on the top line there   the fop contract was basically front loaded into  25 that's why the impact's a little bit greater   in 25 than in 26 and in 27 what you're seeing is  what I mentioned to you that's our that's not the   total amount but the what's influencing that  number up is what our assumptions are for uh   settlement uh amounts in in that year shrinkage  you'll see we are increasing shrinkage again   that's to be more in line to what we think is  going to occur and you can see it significantly   higher in 25 that's because we know where we're  starting point is we know what our vacancy level   is now and uh Elizabeth was telling me that just a  couple days ago and if I recall correctly what she   told me our positions filled are only marginally  different than what they were most of last year   which is really not where we want to be but it  is where we are so because of that we think we   will over shrink this year so we've adjusted our  estimate to reflect that that's also indicative   of a lot of stuff that we've talked about and  stuff that the manager is going to talk about   next and that's all the initiatives that we  have going on uh we're doing everything we   can to accelerate those to the degree possible  and that probably will contribute to some under   expenditures there so uh the long and short of  it is that number is increased which hopefully   will mean that when I come to you a year from  now and report to you results for this year I   won't tell you that we underspent by $6 million  or so because that we underestimated our turnover savings so this is the elevator speech version  of everything I just told you we think fines   and penalties are systemically lower which is a  bad thing but we think interest earnings and AV   growth will more than offset that at least  in the next couple years uh we think our   wage base expansion uh will be manageable in a  couple years but that's again based on what we   assume for uh shrinkage estimates and what we  assume for contract settlements uh in the out years so uh this is my disclaimer slide I guess  uh this is to take the things that we continue   to look at and as I mentioned this forecast will  change here are probably some of the reasons it   might change maybe to the positive maybe to the  negative we'll continue to monitor our ability   to fill positions and make adjustments there uh  as we think necessary again our act our objective   is accuracy and the more data points we have the  generally the more accurate we can become so we'll   monitor our position fi Trends throughout this  year through the months uh again you know if if   settlements actually occur that are higher than  the amount that we uh a budget that'll obviously   have an influence on what our expenditure base  will be in those out years property tax growth   again I'm just giving you our interpretation of  what we have heard from the county I won't know   for sure until June 15th uh so you know they  ultimately they valuation growth may be more   may be less than what we presented here today uh  I think we're probably pretty close to the ballp   part could even be a little on the conservative  side uh so I think our risk is probably on the   upside and not the downside but again I won't  know that until June we monitor the economy I   mentioned that particularly in sales tax we'll  keep an eye on sales tax and see what happens   there I doubt of a whole lot will change between  now and May or June when we lock in but you   know in the environment we're in who knows and  obviously we'll keep an eye on monetary policy   uh I.E specifically what the Federal Reserve does  that has a pretty direct correlation to what we   can invest in since they typically change the  short-term into the curve and that's typically   where we we live on our Investment Portfolio so  here's a slide you've probably been waiting for   this puts it all together maybe I should have let  off with this slide but I was afraid if I did that   maybe you wouldn't pay attention to the last 18  slides if you knew this summary from the get-go   so uh this is where we think we're going to be  now the good news is it's materially better than   what we thought last August for the reasons that I  previously identified we continue to believe this   year will be balanced uh we think that we'll  be pretty close to being balanced in 26 for   the adjustments that I noted and you'll see that  our appap in 27 will be materially different than   what we had initially thought initially we thought  somewhere in the $9 million range uh today I would   tell you maybe closer to the $5 million range  uh again we still are structurally imbalanced   if I kept that chart going out further you're  not going to see that Gap narrow you're going   to see it widen uh but the the takeaway is our  position is improving which is which is really good uh that that's the end of my forecast uh  portion I'm just going to wrap up with a couple   really quick slides here to tell you a few other  things that will impact our ability to produce   the budget this year first is the revenue neutral  rate or what we call the RNR which is our current   budget law uh you know that we have to abide by  uh that means that we have until July 20th to tell   the county whether we choose to exceed that RNR  which we have done here in the city for the last   few years in fact most municipalities in the state  of Kansas exceed the RNR uh that's because if just   a reminder the RNR means that we cannot Levy $1  more than we levied the previous year if we Levy   $1 more than what we levied the previous year we  exceed the RNR so it's a very incredibly High bar   uh to achieve like I said most municipalities  have not been able to achieve that bar and so   most of them choose to exceed the RNR uh just a  ballpark estimate where we're at today uh if we   do not exceed the RNR that's roughly $10 million  that we would not have in our Revenue portfolio   in 2026 and just a reminder that generally  compounds forever because it's going to reduce   our taxes Levy base so really it's $10 million  annually every year from 2026 into Infiniti   uh so it not exceeding the RNR you know would  significantly reduce our our Revenue portfolio   uh just a reminder based on our assess valuation  base which by the way is about $5 billion uh every   1% of assess valuation growth is in the ballpark  of about 1.6 neighborhood million dollars again   it's very complicated calculation and I'm giving  you the ultra simplified version but generally   speaking each 1% in assessed valuation growth is  somewhere in the neighborhood of $1.6 million uh   finally as I noted before on sales tax anything we  do on the property tax side influences our sales   tax collections as as it does all our Pure cities  in SED County as well as the county itself not   to the magnitude of the $10 million but it will  have a impact on our sales tax revenues because   it'll decrease our percentage of the countywide  levy or the countywide sales tax so tentatively   here's what we think the calendar looks like uh  we would expect to have potentially Workshops the   next uh three months uh I mentioned our assess  valuation estimate will come in in June that's   very key we typically make last minute adjustments  when that occurs because it it's a significant   Revenue stream for us uh July 15th is when the  city manager is scheduled to present the proposed   budget uh we do that on July 15th because as I  noted by July 20th we have to provide guidance   to the county clerk on what our intentions are on  RNR so we have to have that first budget hearing   prior to uh July 20th and that July 15th is the  Tuesday prior to July 20th we would expect to   have two more budget hearings one of which would  be an evening meeting uh we still have the date   a little bit tentative on that but we will plan  on two budget hearings one of which will be an   evening meeting and finally at this point our  scheduled adoption of the budget is on August   26th uh that's that's when that will occur so what  are our next steps again we continue to analyze   scrub everything we continue to refine what we're  doing that is an ongoing process and we continue   that literally through June so we're at the front  end of that process we'll continue continue to do   that and that'll that'll cause variability in in  the forecast that I gave you today uh we'll work   with departments on the expenditure side again  reviewing their needs and and making sure that   what we have are appropriate amounts for them  to achieve their organizational objectives but   probably the most important next step I would  tell you is the Strategic prioritization and   the initiative implementation strategy that's what  will allow us to constrict our base or realign our   base uh so that we can avoid some structural  problems that we have potentially down the   road and that's I think kind of ties into what  the manager is going to present next on on the   initiatives uh that's the end of my presentation  I know I threw a lot of information out at you   the short takeaway is our positioning is improved  uh long term we still have structural challenges   but in the short term next couple years we think  we're in materially better position than what we   were last August so that I'd be happy to answer  any questions thank you Mark questions for Mark   uh Mark and I I guess maybe um city manager  assistant city managers uh it talks here about   the reappraisal 4.4% 3.9% um slide six um what's  the status of the um the Constitutional Amendment   with the state because I know they were talking  between four and 5% they were also talking um   a rolling three-year average um so are there any  concerns with that Constitution amendment I guess   what the current status is on it what what does it  look like as far as what the state is proposing I   don't think there's any doubt that if either  of those pass it will reflect a reduction in   what we're assuming here again this is based on  current law uh both of those you know it depends   I'd have to do the math but based on what I've  calculated preliminarily I think one proposal was   to capit a 3% if I remember correctly uh obviously  that's lower than what we have assumed here uh the   average you know I'd have to remodel that uh but  I would tell you that it's most likely going to   be lower than what the amounts are here okay and  that would have to also go to the public for a   vote after they pass that if I'm not mistaken  correct I I'm not an expert on implementation   date but in all likelihood it will not impact your  26 budget but it could impact your 27 budget if it   were to be adopted by the legislature and then  taken out to a public vote okay thank you and I   just realized I forgot to mention one key thing  I wanted to communicate on this slide when we   talk about reappraisal growth recognize that  we are talking about the entire existing tax   base that's 125,000 or so residential parcels and  it's even more commercial Parcels I'm not sure the   number on the commercial side but this literally  is an average of the varying growth patterns for6   65,000 individual properties this does not mean  that every single homeowner in witch's assessed   valuation is going to go up 4.4% for example it  doesn't mean that if we keep our Mill Levy flat   that every single homeowner in witto will see  a 4.4 increase in their property taxes what it   means is on average the assessed valuation will go  up 4.4% every single individuals literally will be   different depending on if their house appreciates  or depreciates in the degree they're in so   uh Mark the the news is reporting a 9% increase  for evaluations across edri County yeah what   what's the difference I think what they said  is that 87% of Residential Properties are   going to increase in average of 9% if I remember  correctly okay which is different than saying 9%   overall and that infers that 133% are either  going to stay flat or or decrease but you've   identified correctly the challenge that I have in  trying to interpret what the county has provided   uh and same on the commercial side I think it  was even higher on the commercial side I can't   remember the percent I think it was 11% growth  in 50% of the commercial properties if I remember   correctly you're right that is that that means  our av is probably going to be materially higher   but it's not enough information for me to tell you  what that growth is going to be again uh there's   a variety of other factors involved so in that  same presentation of the commission there was   a question from one of the Commissioners and  if I remember the response that about 50% of   the Appeals are upheld um by the through their  process so I think what you're seeing would be   the maximum and as Mark said you can't it's hard  to interpret that even as a 9% but if there's a a   significant number of appeals uh you could you'll  see a a drop especially on the commercial side okay Mark I have a couple questions so I  remember um back during the summertime and   obviously by that point you've already  presented a proposed budget and one of   the things I asked for and the reason why I did  not vote for the budget was uh due to not being   able to see a second option which is one that  would not fully capture all of the uh increase   in reappraisals so I would like to know if  it would be possible to create two budgets   one that takes your assumptions into account  which is a mill Levy of approximately 32.749941 ask for like a 3% cap so that you have two budgets  to compare and see what services would look like   with a reduction but really it's in line with  what community is asking which is well uh we   do understand that things cost more over time so  there is some inflation and there's obviously new   construction uh so take that into account with  increasing your budget but not increasing it to   either 6.5% overall or 9% on the extreme um  so would you be able to provide two budgets   well let me ask you a question this way  mayor we constantly through the budget   development process one of our objectives  is to provide options to the city council   and to relate those options in terms of  how that would impact outputs and how   that would align with your strategic  priorities so we typically do that   uh I don't know that we've actually formulated  that into an entire budget plan but conceptually   we routinely relatively routinely uh do what  you're suggesting probably what would make   that strategy less laborious for staff uh would be  policy Direction earlier uh that that is what the   objective is it's much easier for us to prepare  information like that if we have a sufficient   amount of time uh to do that uh but that's how  I would answer your question mayor mayor I think   the short answer is yes and I appreciate that  conversation today it's so much easier for us   to be able to give you good information now versus  an RNR discussion in June and so um what we would   do is prepare a base budget with the council's  previous assumptions over the last number of   years and then what what I'm hearing is bring back  as um an option to that budget what it would take   to get us to CPI or inflation and new construction  so we would calculate what that reduction would be   and we would then bring a supplement in terms of  other actions that would be necessary in order to   balance that budget we won't give you two solid  documents like that but it'll give you uh uh the   kind of input and frankly some of the information  I'm going to share with you we'll do that kind of   analysis for you that'll be based on outcomes and  on the priorities that you established when you   um worked at the last workshop on that thank you  I um would like to I hate to do it cuz I don't   like adding more work but I talk to a different  part of the community and I would like to see   some options for what it would look like if the  meal Levy increased by one or two so we could   have that whole conversation with multiple options  to see how that would be impacted we continue to   maintain our service levels but I also hear from  people who would love to see opportunities to   improve those service levels and we can't do that  at the current rate so I would love to have that   conversation as well I think this would be a great  opportunity I know that there's six of us and uh   council member Glascock was not able to be here  today but he did tell me that he was interested   in the CPI inflation plus new construction so  that's one person in addition to me who would   be interested in seeing that option we can now  open it up to see who else would be interested   in either the reduction that I'm proposing or an  increase in M Levy and we could have because I   think that it would be very laborious for staff to  create three different options versus two options   um so maybe let's have that discussion  who is interested in increasing the mill Levy so I think the question is who is interested  in having the most information available to make   an informed decision and we won't know that  unless this actual work happens it's not about   saying you want to raise the mill every two I've  been very public I would or one or two but um as   this council's always talking about having the  most information and being able to as you just   said with with your option be able to see what  that would look like I think it's only fair that   us and the public who will be attending all of  these workshops watching and participating be   able to have that information as well and also  I'm not asking for again a document it's looking   at how much that would be uh Revenue wise for one  or two Mills and then the option package really   is just adjustments from work that's already  going to happen from what you've requested yeah I I I I would not favor a mill increase  I I'll tell you that um I I I very interested   in seeing the uh option you proposed um Tak  in account some kind of inflation or or cost   of living or something like that plus new  construction uh see what that budget looks like I don't think we're doing all of our  homework if we don't look at all the options   so um while I'm not sure that I would be in  favor of a mill Levy I certainly think um   it's important to propose all of the facts  and all of the different options and sides   to the public so you know it sounds scary but  maybe if it's 10 or $15 you know I know we've   talked about it in the past um but what  you could get for that 10 or 15 million   increase um I think that's something that is  to the community for us to present all the sides I like to look at options so we're down to 33 dton did say he wanted to see the CPI  uh inflation plus new construction I'll ask   right now well I I'm not sure I mean I think  that we're all in agreement of just options   helps Bob can you please address that sorry I didn't know my it we have a very  tight process and um I'm not quite sure how we   can give you what you need with three different  options I know so much Focus will be on trying   to maintain service levels and meet the council's  priorities with the existing policy that's been in   place um and I'm sorry just to be candid because  the amount of work if if the council is not going   to approve an increase in the mill then it  becomes an exercise to look at options but   if you're not going to seriously consider those  options it it takes time away from the rest of   the budget process so that's that's my only issue  if if there if you believe that there could be a   possibility of some increase then of course we're  here to serve and we'll we'll do that but it's   going to take a lot of work I think to try to get  this other option as well as our base budget and   and I it's a whole different thought process in  terms of what we would do if there was additional   revenue and how that would what those priorities  are for the council it would require a lot more   feedback from you during this process um so it's  it makes it complex but one thing let's decide   today because again I we're scrambling we'll not  be able to give you good information the later we   get into the process I'll just make a statement  um we're not voting we can't right so we need to   make that clear this is just comments and then  staff can infer what they want from that at this   point I would not be interested in a discussion  on a m of the increase especially because we do   not know what's going to happen at the state and  I heard some information yesterday yesterday that   I chatted with the manager about that was really  alarming in terms of potential caps that could   influence our budget significantly so at this  point I would not be interested in in learning   more about a mivia increase but again this is not  a vote this is just a conversation right I'll also   go on record um and say um affirmatively I  will not support a budget that um does not   exceed the revenue neutral rate so this option  that was requested is not one I will support   uh I'm happy to look at the information because  I like to be informed but if we go forward and we   um are looking at trying to not exceed the revenue  neutral rate I will not be supportive of that and   let me clarify I have not heard any direction  that we try to adhere to the RNR what I heard   was our base budget and then also a CPI and new  construction growth I will clarify anything that   does not take in all of it I am not supportive  of got it thank you for that robust conversation   and Mark I just wanted to double check um in our  budget book it shows the 115 Mills that are levied   um only 28.4% of the total really is the city  of Witchita uh the next actually the highest is   actually usd259 at 45.1% then its city of witchat  28.4% uh SED county is 20 3.9% WSU is 1.3% and the   state is 1.3% is that correct yes ma'am that's  correct the city to use round numbers the school   district's roughly half the county and the city  are roughly quarters you put a finer point on it   but that's generally towards at thank you very  much ma' does that provide enough direction for   staff I think so I think the manager mentioned  this but I want to reiterate he's correct under   what you've suggested still would exceed the  revenue neutral rate you just wouldn't capture   all the growth yeah correct it would still be  a increase in exceed the revenue neutral rate   but not capture the full growth yes ma'am yep I  would also like to highlight that it then begins   to set the example that we are not investing in  ourselves at a level that we could and that has   been one of the challenges that we have faced as  a city by not investing in ourselves not only in   local government government but in other ways as  well and to work to improve service levels and   provide what we really need for those who are  spending their time day in and day out for the   city we know that salaries are going to continue  to need to go up to be competitive and um all of   our service levels truly will be there at some  point people will begin to say like just just like   with street sweeping why is my street not being  swept the three four times a year it was those   things are going to come those things are going  to cost and the more time we spend just trying to   adhere to doing the least that we can instead of  recognizing that we really need to make more of an   investment the harder it's going to be for future  councils because we continue to talk about similar   dollar amounts and again I think that if we're not  looking at an opportunity to increase then we're   going to have some challenges in the future mayor  if I can um one thing I will point out a reminder   from markk slides 2027 still shows a structural  deficit so if you want to have a discussion about   service level erosion you're going to have in  just getting to our normal basic budget you're   going to have some tough decisions to to discuss  on what it would take within our defined Revenue   so I think it does let you then talk about those  service level changes and whether or not that is   too much so so I mean I think you can get to where  you want to go without us doing an artificial   con construct about what would happen if we had  additional Mill so it it could just be a asteris   that says one mil is an additional $5 million two  Mills is an additional 10 and as we look at this   deficit we know if we raised the mill we wouldn't  have that structural issue in uh 26 27 so it it   helps so even just having an aster there right  and we'll highlight we'll have to highlight what   all of those actions that will take us just  even to balance the basic budget so that'll that   could te that discuss I'd be happy with that  I just want the public to know that there is   an opportunity to not have to make the decisions  like that and we can continue to improve service levels thank you for the discussion  this has been very helpful to us so let's um let's talk about one of  the issues that's influencing the   financial projections that  Mark just shared with you um at the end of the budget process last year  you asked us to work on some interim projects   so that we could get a running start on what we  knew were going to be structural deficit issues   for both 26 and 27 and uh that what we said is  we would look at 10 different projects to see if   we could start uh to make some changes most of  them are centered around um uh departments and   operations that have had struggles or challenges  in being fully staffed over the last few years so   um we looked we have um these 10 projects that  are going on uh and the issue was to look at   Staffing equipment and operational issues in each  of the operations before I go any further I want   to thank staff for the significant work that they  have done in each of these service areas the five   I'm going to show with you now they looked at uh a  number of options and they were all of the options   and the recommendations are based on outcomes and  so we can tell you I have a stack of reports that   are about that thick that can talk about all of  the outcome uh impacts from the options I'm not   going to share those with you today because you're  going to get lost in all that you have an attach   report that I think talks focuses more on  outcomes for the recommended options but we   have that same kind of data for those options  that were also considered but not recommended   so I'm going to just jump right into it and  we have subject subject matter experts from   each of the Departments that were involved in this  process the first one has to do with M Municipal   Court Mark talked about a drop in Revenue in court  which is then translated into a drop in activity   and so what we looked at were three different  options if we did something with our uh kind   of locked in our current Staffing because we've  had some staffing challenges but also as I said   some workload changes we looked at what if we  maintained a budget that had full Staffing and   maybe shifted the resources and the third is what  if we further reduce staff our recommended option   is that we would eliminate a docket Clerk and  two clerk positions because of a drop in uh work   activity and we would lock in some salary savings  or Shrink AG that has been built in the budget   before and we this would now become a permanent  part of the budget we'd also reduce about $100,000   from the Professional Services budget because  we're having decreased collection activity so   as we're recommending it in 2025 we would come  in with about $263,000 in savings from Municipal   Court operations B can I ask you a question why  are we seeing a dude cson Municipal Court okay um   I don't want to speak for the Chief but there  has been a change in philosophy over the last   several years in terms of traffic enforcement  primarily by the police department it's a focus   uh a greater focus on property crimes and  on um personal uh crimes um and proactive   policing instead of reactive policing so most  of our traffic enforcement has focused on um   areas of high uh accidents or where they know  that safety is jeopardized by highp speeding   so it's a much more targeted enforcement not as  broad as we had in maybe 10 years ago so we have   seen a steady decline over the last several years  in that Revenue Source uh a much bigger change in   the last year or two many more warning tickets  that are given trying to actually recognize some   of the adverse impact from running traffic tickets  especially in places where it doesn't seem to be   as Justified or it's just spot enforcement I I'm  and I appreciate that thank you so much for the   response I just you know my concern is if there in  some in the future becomes a change in philosophy   of that model then where does that put us so go  ahead and go does that make sense no I'm not quite   sure because our staffing it's uh we haven't CH  we still have a Traffic Unit it's just a matter   of how they do their enforcement work and where  the chief assigns uh members of the department and   I think he's decided that there are areas that  are higher priority for residents and probably   higher priorities for the Department where we  can have make you know better impact on our crime   statistics by focusing on those and pulling  it maybe a little away from a heavy traffic   enforcement now we still have to look at keeping  people safe so it's we haven't ignored Traffic   Safety sure but in the future if they were to say  oh we've got we've gone too far we can always make   that adjustment and of course that Revenue we  we always have the ability to add positions   to this to Municipal Court to process additional  that's what you're asking yes like heaven forbid   if Chief Sullivan won the lottery and left and we  had a new Chief and that wasn't their philosophy   I just want to make sure we have the flexibility  built in to be able to address that well the good   news is youd have the additional Revenue to be  able to pay for that's exactly what I wanted to   hear thank you y have we ran Us by judge Jones  and uh does Judge Jones feel like this is okay   uh judge Jones doesn't control the operations  the actual administration of the court but I   Nathan have you had discussions with the  judge I haven't but what I'll say is that   the docket Clerk and the two clerk positions  are actually savings through Benchmark and   through our process changes and so regardless  of whether there's an uptick in actual ticket   writing these are not positions that would  be impacted by that the big impact on ticket   would be that uh $100,000 that uh we're reducing  from Professional Services that relate directly to   monies that were not paying a collections agency  because they're not bringing in those revenues so   um this really is capturing some of our process  improvements and and and areas we identified that   are improving in uh due to technology and then  the $100,000 refle that reduction in collections   Nathan thanks for their clarification and I'm  jumping ahead of myself but we're also going   to have an opportunity in the future when the  new police record system comes on it will have   impact in the uh uh Court as well and so we have  probably another opportunity to reorganize and   probably reduce staff because of the benefits re  that we realize through that technology thank you Doctor uh and this talks about that uh looking  in 26 and 27 as axon project get moves forward   we believe that we can maintain the service  levels as they currently exist in the court   so don't see a real significant controversy in  this uh recommendation um we did look at what   if we maintain the existing budget as it is um the  recommendation that came from the Municipal Court   team was they would like to have a position  that would um be uh a grant writer and Grant   administrator that would allow the courts to take  uh greater advantage of opportunities for funding   from outside sources I will tell you that we're  looking at this on a city-wide level in re uh   response to some questions that come from council  members in the past we're doing a cost benefit of   creating a grant position for the organization and  so uh again not recommending option two here and   then the last one is what if we took Staffing  down even further that would have an impact on   our customer customer service um work and it would  produce significant savings from 345,000 roughly   to 46,000 but it would uh have these kinds of  impacts you could have call weit times that would   jump from less than a minute to up to five minutes  depending on how many positions you eliminated   you'd have increased call EMB batment rates and  you'd have increased Lobby weight times those   are all things that we had previously if and we've  not always been successful in in the past in being   able to move people quickly through the courts but  over uh the last several years we've seen improved   service levels and and so we're not recommending  this option because we really not want to we don't   want to inconvenience those in Municipal Court  after we made this much progress and being able to   accommodate um I think in a way that we get great  compliments from people going through the court   system uh and as you know they don't want to be  in the court system anyway and so um I think we're   serving the public well so that's that was it on  Municipal Court um and I will tell you inless I   hear from you I'm I'm probably going to be moving  forward with these recommendations so we can get   them implemented in 2025 and hopefully early in  2025 again to have the impact that market talked   about uh in his previous uh presentation because  we've built many of these into the our projections   for 25 26 and 27 next one has to do with Park  and Recreation ma uh maintenance now this one's   a touchy one because it impacts a service or  could impact service areas that you've had a lot   of discussion about over the last couple years  especially forestry and so we think we have an   option that will allow us to reduce cost recognize  what's going on especially because of our drought   um and realize some savings or lock some Savings  in the first one has us adjusting our mowing cycle   for non-park ground I'll talk about that in a  second another one would eliminate current open   positions and maintain service levels that we  have but you have not been satisfied with those   service levels so when I show you the impact I  think we're right not recommending that option   and then the third one also will would impact  tree and stump removal which again I think the   council's expressed concerns about in the past so  what we're recommending as this option is that we   would increase our non-park mowing Cycles from 14  days to 21 days and uh where we currently have a   14-day cycle and where we have a 50-day cycle we'd  go to a 70-day cycle We believe We Can Save about   $260,000 by going to the this uh the new Cycles  we don't think we're going to have significant   uh changes especially while we're in the drought  we're not irrigating these are mostly rights of   way uh and as I said U other spaces that are  not Park um and not heavily utilized by our public our second option was eliminating  six positions that are currently open it's   in forestry and park maintenance we could  produce about a $287,000 savings but it   would increase the time to close service  request and increase the time for uh tree   removal which again is not consistent with  what I've heard from the council previously   and then the third would eliminate a $250,000  contract we have for tree and stump removal I   don't need to explain the impact that would  have on increasing backlog so at this point   I'm assuming that I'm not going to get a  thumbs up for either options two or three and   so we but we are comfortable at this point with  recommending option one and proceeding in in that direction the third item is a little different uh  in that this is a cost recovery issue um it has to   do with getting increasing our cost recovery for  our planning fees and this was discussed in the   last budget um but we've had some push back from  uh the development community over a 10% increase   that we recommended that be implemented in 25 what  we'd like to do is get a process established so   that we don't have to come to you on a periodic  basis and get increases but you approve a policy   that allows us to recover cost at a certain level  and then increase it every year based on CPI   um it's not a lot of money it's $34,000  in increased Revenue that we would get   from that 10% fee we were currently get  somewhere between 400 and $425,000 in   fees which is only today about 25% of  cost recovery we'd like to get to about   28% and that's shown here on the slide the  last time our fees were increased was 2018 um since we talked about cost recovery just a few  minutes ago um on the golf cart issue um can you   explain why cost recovery is not higher because  be because of uh push back I don't I want to be   fair concerns expressed by the development  community and the feeling that those costs   ultimately get passed on to a consumer to someone  who's buying a property or leasing a property and   the council has always said that given and let  me come back to this the cost recovery pyramid   that it there was a certain public purpose being  um represented here uh that the council didn't   want to go to full cost recovery so that's why  we've hovered around this 25% but I will Point   down to the last bullet point and that our actual  cost for processing applications is $1.5 million   so we don't believe that we're being overly  aggressive just to inch up from 25% to 28% uh   but again the development Community has pushed  back specifically the home builders indicating   that the market is down and as a result of that  they don't want to see additional cost added to   them at this point and I just want to be fair and  representing that that's their position I'm I'm   still making the recommendation that we at least  increase our cost recovery a little bit I think   according to our recovery model we should be at  least at 30% and that's what at one point I was   looking at trying to be that 30 to 50% but that  would be a significant increase from where we   are today and I again I'd love to have Council  guidance on what you think is fair and whether   or not we do it at one time or over a period of  time and that's why again a process approved by   the council would be helpful to us and to the  development Community I think we should have a   discussion um I I believe that it would be prudent  to have either a town hall and have de development   community and also provide these facts of it  costs an estimated 1.5 million and how much   are we receiving each year roughly $400,000  so we're not cost recovering which then the   reason why we're not cost recovering is because  we do want development to happen we I think uh   housing was one of the top four things that  uh Community survey said we need to focus on   housing SL homeless bu and so I'm kind of  concerned about the cost recovery portion   I want to be a good partner but at the same time  at what expense and if people know clearly that   they're getting a a um a great partnership  because we're trying to increase housing in   our community I think people need to know that  but I don't like not having cost recovery at a   level where we're able to even just pay the St  member that processes this information another   one that I would also challenge is are there any  technology um enhancements that could help with   that uh courts did that um and so are there any  opportunities on the technology side I think we   have done a lot to allow for electronic filings um  if you want to get into that Scott I I don't um or   we can bring that back mayor one of the things I  think would be a helpful discussion is not having   this thee in isolation but you talked about a  housing strategy and so I anticipated this year   later this year we would talk about what our rle  is going to be in creating greater opportunities   for affordable housing and that could be fee  reductions or waivers in some cases but it's   in a targeted way that is defined by the council  you may want to focus simply on our core or our   Redevelopment areas and say we're willing to do  this in order to encourage residential development   in these areas but we want to go closer to of  cost recovery in other parts of the community   but that'll be your kind of that'll be your policy  discussion hey Bob uh two quick questions one if   it's a 5% increase do we have like an average  that would cost an applicant per project yes Scott don't have ofes and so our Varan all these an actual Fe list can show  you what the impact would be increasing on fees   we round that up to the nearest $5 increment  either down or up depending on where it lands   just to make it easier for the transaction just  simply taking cash or check we don't take pennies   anymore right well we still have to but I prefer  not to appreciate that and second uh question is   you talked about 30% kind of the target is that  what most like communities do is around 30% or   is there kind of a standard that we're looking  at here I think we're a little unique in terms   of talking about cost recovery and using the  pyramid model we I know other cities do it but   I think with the comparable cities that we looked  at I don't know that they have a defined policy   either the Kansas Cities Tulsa Oklahoma City or  Omaha for that matter I just add we are doing so I think the guidance here is maybe not ju jump  into the 10% increase immediately but make sure we   have an opportunity for dialogue with the Comm  the development Community but more importantly   talk about an overall strategy on our role in  housing is is that accurate or do you want us   to move forward with the 10% and then start  that discussion I think moving forward with   an increase but then having further discussion  because I again it it concerned me knowing that   we're not cost recovering and I understand the  reason we want to encourage development but I   don't believe that uh to the extent that it  currently is so we do have to have a greater   conversation with the development community and  local government again I just want to make sure   that we're paying the staff that needs to be paid  to make sure that this happens but at the same   time we're still encouraging the development  that we need because we still need new growth   and we still need Construction in our community  we just saw it from Mark's presentation so um I   feel like there's a balance and we need to have  everyone at the table you don't have to decide   today because I believe it takes an ordinance in  order to lock into these new fees so we'll bring   that forward to you I just wanted to highlight um  council member Johnson and I had the opportunity   to participate in a meeting with some developers  about an unrelated topic and and assistant city   manager Troy Anderson was there as well and one  of the things that they were hoping to see and we   agreed I think and some discussions will need  to happen is the city because of it's one of   the and the four top priorities of the community  surveillance affordable housing SL homelessness   housing that's affordable troice trained me  well um to be able to come up with some sort   of maybe longer term strategic plan for housing  in our community and the developers want to be   involved in that conversation to be a good partner  and this could be an opportunity to weave this   into that as well I just wanted to add I agree  with the mayor I think we should go forward with   both and definitely have the conversation  but we got to do something okay thank you okay so let's talk about um Public Works  and utilities facilities division um they   are responsible for maintaining um all of our  facilities we had we have three options U that   we looked at the one that we're recommending is  an adjustment on our custodial levels both inhouse   and what we contract um with outside uh providers  the second one had to do with one that um act and   that's only on custodial the second one is a mix  of a change in custodial levels but also a change   in our maintenance uh approach in the buildings  which includes regular inspections and repairs   which I think goes against what the council wants  us to do in terms of preventative maintenance and   maintaining our existing assets and the third  one is a mix on that as well so I will let you   know that what we're looking at um is eliminating  three vacant custodial positions that we have and   reducing our custodial contracts in order to save  about 387,000 in 25 and over a half million in 26   it's really going to have a minimal impact on our  critical work because again it's on what it'll   mean is garbage cans are going to be emptied  maybe a day or two less than they are right   now there are we have a list of other custodial  services that will be at a little less service   but it recognizes that we haven't been able to  meet our standards that were created for these   buildings because we haven't been able to fill the  positions and keep them full so we're basically   going to lock in at a current service level  and I I'm I personally have not received nor   has our staff received many complaints regarding  those service levels in this building so we would   lock in savings that has actually been created  over the last few years by our inability to keep   a constant Staffing level option two and I'm not  going to spend much time on options two and three   we would have had reduced Heating and Cooling  maintenance um in some of our facilities we would   have reduced inspections of our buildings and spot  repairs and maintenance everyday maintenance and   we could have had additional um savings but when  you look at that we would lose an HVAC mechanic   and some other maintenance positions and the  same would go with option three so um unless   I hear otherwise we believe the prudent thing to  do is adjust custodial level adjust expectations   a little bit with our staff and still be able to  realize up to a half million dollar savings by by   26 and the last one which I don't expect you to  necessarily jump on this today but I wanted to   share with you a lot of work went into looking at  this option um or looking at this area and that   is recognizing that we have had a challenge on  Staffing for again few years in Street Maintenance   we have an Optimum level of service we have what  our current level of service is and then we have   the resulting levels of service from each of our  options our recommendation is to eliminate nine   positions in the Street Maintenance division six  of those are currently vacant and we're targeting   about a $600,000 savings each of the next two  years for if we do this what we would want to do   is to preserve to as much as possible our current  s service levels in pavement M maintenance Lane   Market works and traffic signal maintenance in  order to do that shifting staff around and and   recognizing what we can do in terms of filling  positions we would see some erosion of service   from in terms of our street sweeping programs a  Slowdown in graffiti removal and litter removal   and then a very almost not noticed change in  our service level for snow removal with the   upside being 13 hours instead of 12 hours to  complete cycle so that would result in about a   $600,000 savings now again we we understand Street  Mains as a high priority for our residents and so   we're trying to keep from getting into areas  where we're reducing the number of potholes   that would be filled and all of the other things  that I think people associate with our day-to-day   Street Maintenance activities to positions that  are F we'll wait until those positions become   vacant in other words we would not lay anyone off  at this under this plan in 25 We Believe between   now and the end of the year we'll have vacant  positions that we would just freeze and not fill   Bob can I ask a question and maybe I should let  you go through it but stet M maintenance we know   is in the top four priorities according to the  community survey it's what the community thinks   is really important but we're not doing it maybe  especially well so will op3 be impacted by this   okay no good question that's a great question no  op3 not well not this is just the work we do with   our crews on a kind of on a daily basis if you  want to idea about service levels if you go to   the attached report there are like three or four  pages of service level um data and that will give   you an idea again as I indicated what our most  what our desired at full Staffing levels are what   our current service levels are and the impact  of adopting this option and you'll see that in   even in some cases we're going to be under what  we're recommending we'll actually do better than   we're currently doing because we're putting more  resources into some areas that would allow us to   get to Optimum but what we sacrifice then will be  the current service levels in street sweeping it's   not that we're not doing them but we're going to  change the Cycles in street sweeping and and the   graffiti and litter removal areas thank you I  am 100% against this I get dinged on this all   the time in my district graffiti removal South  Broadway way uh litter removal um once a month   and once every 3 months that's the cleanliness  of our community street sweeping what we used   to do every 6 months and now we're going to talk  about every 12 to 18 months I hear that all the   time at my neighborhood association meetings yeah  I'm against this one again that's why I told you   this one would be I wouldn't be implementing  it yeah well I'll make this one look better   let me show the other options option two would  reduce service levels across the division option   three targets street sweeping even more and then  the fourth one is a mix of street sweeping and   shifting some maintenance expenses over to the CIP  which is really just um it's a financing mechanism   and moves it out of the operating budget but we  still have to pay for it um I well just so you   get a feel for what this would mean the option  two eliminates 12 positions I'm not going to   go through all of this but here's an idea when you  do a balanced approach now you're reducing repairs   of PVE streets pothole curban gutter unpaid Street  repair none of this we knew would be acceptable   to you or to the public so I'm not going to spend  time on that the same in terms of going deeper in   terms of street sweeping cuts um and what we had  an option for so I guess what I need before I go   into the last slide what I needed to hear is from  others about adjustments do we is this hands off   do you want to see a smaller reduction that at  least gets us to the service levels that exist   today because I'm not confident I'm going to  be able to hire staff to be able to get to the   optimum we haven't been able for two years so  then Are we more targeted in what we preserve   and re what we recognize we can't do if you go to  that second column we could maybe tailor our work   to what we're getting done now that will result  in some savings and I'll be able to lock in on   savings that currently we're just realizing  through um our um shrinkage at the very least   I think we need to maintain current levels  at the very least yeah I agree with that I   mean why are we having such a hard time hiring is  it because you can't get competitive with wages or what is the problem well I think it depends who  you talk to I think you have a limited market um   we have increased wages significantly through  the SEIU contract to try to become competitive   but it just it's in some cases we're able to  hire but we don't retain uh and in other cases   it just there aren't the market just isn't that um  significant in terms of the number of people that   are available for the work that we're doing I mean  with Mike I think we have to stay at least where   we are and like he said I'm constantly getting  DED for graffiti that is all over down it gets   they do a great job in the Parks and the bridges  and stuff but you know on the side of the crest   building it's been like n months um the littering  you know all the way up on Broadway I mean there's   there's no way we can reduce in my opinion um and  it's the core it's what everybody sees and the   graffiti is what they see the trash is what they  see um okay I am in agreement with maintaining   where we are okay okay so if we bring any savings  to you it'll be lock because we're locking in the   what has been salary savings over the last few  years okay or increase in the mail Levy I also   think that right now we're only looking at certain  um departments what are other departments that   could see savings um knowing full-heartedly that  the CommunityWide survey specifically said crime   prevention Street repair Economic Development  and also housing homelessness uh targeting one   of the major portions of uh the community survey  seems a little off well we brought that forward to   you back at the end of the year because we knew we  were consistently having shortages in Staffing and   so at that point it was whyde budget at the full  Optimum level when we know that there's going to   be some savings so we're just trying to lock in  that savings we were trying to emphasize Street   Maintenance to maybe to the exclusion of some  others or reduction in other service levels like   I said a lot of time and effort went into this  trying to determine what's in the best interest of   the community let me answer answer your question  two in two ways first of all there's still five   more projects that we identified for you that  are inter projects that are ongoing right now um   excuse me oh so this is the savings with with if  you had accepted the option on Street Maintenance   we would have had about a $1.5 million savings as  a result of just these five projects that'll be   reduced as we make the modification these are the  projects that are on on still ongoing the accounts   payable and accounts receivable function moving  to the finance department and out of each of the   specific departments we think that will be result  in a pretty significant savings but we're only   partway through that work right now we're doing  some things on animal control dog licensing we'll   bring that back to you um the issue of Equitable  management model is really talking about our   middle level management um in the organization  and making sure that's right sized we also want   to make sure that we are right sizing our Fleet  we have looked at Fleet operations and I don't   think there's a lot of savings that can we can  get through the through that operation because   of things they have done over the last several  years to use technology and equipment and training   to to I think really appropriately address um our  maintenance needs for our Fleet but we have under   identified a number of underutilized vehicles  that we think we can Shed from the uh Fleet and   that will ultimately res result in Savings in  terms of service but more importantly in terms   of Replacements going forward and the last thing  is naming rights and we're going to be bringing   something back regarding that now mayor back  to the other question about some of the other   areas that are that that's all part of our budget  process that's why we brought forward to you that   discussion last month you've now given us guidance  through the pillars through the goals of what it   is you want to accomplish and so as we go through  the budget review we're going to try to hit the   places that you've identified as priorities and  then look at what can we do differently probably   in Ser terms of service reduction or even service  shedding in the areas that don't fit because again   I can't address a $5 million structural deficit  by trying to do everything that we continue to do   today so that's why it was so important for you to  come down with those goals and give us Direction   on what was important to you so our recommendation  going to be built around that and how we comply   with uh or come adhere to your your direction I  did want to again I feel like my comments were a   little dismissive so I want to say I respect all  the work that went into that when I said I want to   maintain service levels but for me a lot of those  issues really hit at the heart of the quality of   life stuff that I hear about and care about and  especially I joked about the street sweeping but   I really hear about that now so much so that was  why I said I thought we should maintain ref find   way to really impact those things the least  possible but I know a lot of effort went into   that and that was the best of the three options  that you present it but it's just I feel like we   should try our best to maintain that right again  we're trying to leave no stone unturned in that   regard and see if there are opportunities um and  that's why we introduced the 10 projects and we   didn't believe that all of them would come forward  with maybe you know something that everybody would   accept but I think we're never going to move  forward if we don't don't challenge some past   assumptions and the way we're doing business so  okay I'm going to add one more additional comment   on options regarding the Street Maintenance I  know that two three and four I believe definitely   did not have any support whatsoever right from  this Council right um but option one these are   currently unfilled positions correct a majority of  them six six of the nine that we recommended yes   I would Challenge and say that I appreciate seeing  that that um is one of the options if that could   be further explained I guess because I I feel like  um since those positions have not been filled the   current uh service levels are still maintained so  why why wouldn't you just take away those six if   service level right now is acceptable without the  six why wouldn't you take away the six May prob   where we'll be that that that's what I'll bring  back is how do we lock in the salary savings   that we've been capturing informally how do we  do that formally in this budget and recognize   we're going to have that consistent vacancy rate  U but again what I'm hearing is don't shift any   resources among the division to you know to to cut  back on on um um uh street sweeping or something   like that so we'll probably be focused on the  service levels that exist in that second column   uh to two things real quick one um I think a lot  of people in the community don't find the current   service levels as acceptable and that's why we get  beat up at a lot of the neighborhood meetings and   whatnot uh second what are the six open positions  um I'm sorry I don't have it Aaron do you know off hand while aon's looking for that I just wanted to  share the sentiments um as council member hoisel   I mean without knowing all the jobs and all the  details it looks like we have three people doing   nine people's work is that fair to say well not  really there's um no no because or does that mean   just work's not being done it we're just not able  to achieve everything that we want to do on our   streets and so I mean I can't remember Erin how  many staff members do you have in the division   in the division so I mean so it's whatever is  less I mean we have six vacancies out of those   115 I think there's probably a few other vacant  positions depending on what you're looking at   but so you've got a lot you got over a  hundred people that are doing that work okay two e1s from P specifically e so all of them are from pavement  maintenance all from street main okay okay okay all right mayor we have one last   I just it'll take you three minutes  it's a summary of where we are with ARA okay I think I need to is the best way um good morning I'm Elizabeth goldry from  the finance department and I'm here to provide   a quick update on the arpa recovery plan um Mark  presented the quarterly reports last week at your   city council meeting um and but the arpa plan  was on the schedule for the workshop um and so   it seemed like a good opportunity just to provide  a brief update um of what we were able to achieve   in the fourth quarter of last year and you know  celebrate that success um this pie chart um is an   update of um the final allocations in our city  of wiah arpa recovery plan um how we allocated   the 72.4 million um an initial spending plan was  developed in 2021 with the goal of allocating $20   million for negative economic impact initiatives  um all told in the end over 23 million was   allocated in that category um the increase is  due to the funding of Mac operations at a total   of $5 million um that allocation to the negative  economic impacts Pro projects does Place some   pressure on the CIP because we had initially  intended on cash funding more capital projects   out of arpa but prudently 7 Mills was shifted  from the general fund to The Debt Service fund   um in 2025 so that provides some more capacity  a little more capacity than we had had before   um but also as a reminder I know Mac is top of  mind for many people um infrastructure projects   as a category well you'll find the construction  projects um the renovation projects related to   the Mac um and then this um pie chart is a zoom  in on the ne negative economic impact initiatives   projects um so um it includes the Mac funding and  then also some small changes um Minor Adjustments   as projects were closed um all told there were  um in the Workforce Development in small business   projects category there were a total of 24  projects there um at this point those have   been fully expended and we're in the reporting and  monitoring phase of those projects um as a part   of monitoring I've been able to visit a number  of sites that um use funding to Pro to purchase   Capital assets um such as breakthrough win and  WSU Tech and it's always inspiring to see the   funding being put to use out in the community and  how it's impact ing residents particularly in the   areas of small business and Workforce Development  um we shared this um table with you last time in   September um we had there was a lot of work that  happened between September and December in order   to obligate all funds um not only um were funds  obligated by the end of 2024 um there's been um   additional spending through the end of January  um and the current monthly spending which we   monitor is on track to be fully expended by the  end of September 2026 um this award has a total   of 57 projects which is more projects than there  are cards in a deck it's a lot of projects um 38   have completed spending um and then there are  14 projects that have some spending and we're   monitoring those that's the activity that you've  seen from September most of the activity from   September to the end of last month and then  there are five projects that we're monitoring   the timelines for that haven't had expenditures  yet but at this point um we feel that they're on track so um getting in summary I know that getting  to this point of being fully obligated hasn't been   easy um the feedback that we received in  September um and also your commitment to   O that that November 5th meeting was pretty um  instrumental and getting all the funds obligated   so um the guidance that the city council  provided and the guidance we got from the   community starting in 2021 and then having the  flexibility to incorporate additional um funding   for homelessness um has it's it's been pretty  incredible um that we've continued to address   the needs of the community that's in many  cases still persist even though the pandemic   is behind us um this will probably be the last  presentation that you receive about arpa so I   just wanted to take the opportunity to think and  or you know to acknowledge other people who you   don't see today but that I work closely with in  the finance department um it's been we recognized   it's been a unique and weighty responsibility  to receive this amount of funding it's been   very unprecedented um and so Josh lobber who he  regularly a purchasing manager Nikki Babcock our   controller and then two of our grants and projects  accountants have been very involved Amy Belcher   and Jordan Miller as well as Aurora Gonzalez  in the budget office we've all really worked   closely as a team and um this this is our last  presentation so um there's there's there's been   a lot to it so um it's been a neat project so you  know we just want to thank you for your trust and   partnership in this process and we'll continue to  report quarterly as funds continue to be spent and   we learn more about outcom so thank you so it's  not the last presentation correct it's not the   last presentation it's we will still report  on a quarterly basis but I think the hard um   the hard work of the allocations and obligations  is behind us so if I could just say um also to you   and the team members that you mentioned fine job  this was um an opportunity that came out of what   was a global issue but seeing that we aren't  returning one penny to the federal government   and we have spent it as wisely um as we could on  the city team as well as making these strategic   investments into the community and doing so  much good and not having any issues I I think   it says a lot about you all in the team and how  um incredibly hard that probably was and all the   things you had to navigate and then making sure  that all of those things happen so I just want   to take my hat off to you all as well fine job and  I'm I'm really excited about the work we were able   to do as a City team Council and and staff uh in  the community so it was a unique opportunity but   everyone did a great job yeah I expect even though  I still have a lot of your years ahead of me in   my career that I'll still always point to this as  being a pretty Monumental accomplishment so thank you thank you very much that's  it mayor thank you have a great day for