[1:17] Mayor: how many of those are you all right good evening we will uh call this meeting to order for the December 12th 20124 Apple Valley city council meeting uh welcome everyone this evening as you are uh as you come up to speak this evening please uh come to the podium and state your name uh for the for the good of the audience in the in the meeting the first item on our agenda is the Pledge of Allegiance I would ask everyone to rise and join us in the pledge pledge alleg to the flag of the United States of America and to the rep for it stands na God indivisible withy and Justice all all right thank you the next item on our agenda is to approve the agenda and Tom are there any changes this evening [2:03] Tom (City Administrator): good evening Mr Mayor members of the council just an acknowledgement of some additional uh items that are related to item 5C on your agenda the city budget uh two letters from uh residents regarding the city budget [2:17] Mayor: great thank you Tom with that we would take a motion to approve the agenda second motion from council member grindall and the second from council member Bergman all those in favor indicate by saying I I and opposed uh the agenda is approved the next item is our audience participation portion of the meeting this is for items that are not on the agenda uh do we have I did not see anyone signed up to speak would anyone like to speak at this time all right seeing none the next item is our approval of the consent agenda [2:49] Mayor: these items are considered routine and will be enacted with a single motion unless a council member or a citizen request to pull an item and council members are there any items you would like to pull this evening seeing none uh says citizens excuse me are there any items you'd like to pull all right we don't see any there either do I have a motion to approve the consent agenda second motion from council member Mander and a second from council member grall all those in favor indicate by saying I I opposed the consent item carry items carry the next uh our first excuse me regular agenda item is 5A and that is to adopt a resolution except a donation from Planet Fitness for use by the city of Apple Valley and Matt Nelson has this one for us [3:36] Matt Nelson: good evening uh mayor and Council so the Planet Fitness had reached out to um the fire department about a month ago and asked if we'd be potentially willing to accept a donation they were going through a renovation or a um up uplift at their um Apple Valley location um so they're getting replacing their current cardio equipment um so after speaking with them and talking with them apparently they um when they do this kind of an upgrade um they reach out to the local fire departments that kind of thing to see if um or cities to see if they could use the equipment um so after speaking with them they were very generous and offered um basically whatever we could use or need um so after kind of taking a survey of um what we could fit at the different fire stations um speaking to the police department or the um City Hall staff here what we have um in our act Center at City Hall um gave them a list they were great gracious enough to donate um what we had asked for the only caveat was we had to pick it up on December 3rd between 10: a.m. and 8:00 p.m. because that after 8:00 P.M their moving company was coming to move it all out and start moving in the new ones so they were only closed for like a day or day and a half um so um the fire department was um more than willing to make that accommodation to um get some very nice equipment that will uh replace some broken equipment we had and actually add a few different pieces um to the new Fire Station 2 is that actually has a little bit more room in it um really couldn't accommodate much more at the other fire stations besides just replacing um what was currently there so we're just looking for your you to actually accept the donation um the Chad U district manager from plan of Fitness wasn't going to be here tonight um but at the last minute had an emergency come up and wasn't able to make it so [5:23] Mayor: perfect thank you Matt there's no questions we would take a motion to adopt the resolution accepting the donation second motion from council member Bergman second from council member Goodwin all those in favor indicate by saying I and opposed Matt there's there's no truth to the fact we're painting the fire trucks purple or anything right not going to match the equipment perfect I'll say since thank you to Planet Fitness that's a probably six figure donation worth of equipment that will put to Great use and uh so thank you um our next item is to Proclaim February 1st which is coming up really really quickly here 2025 as Apple Valley mid Winterfest and bill has this one come on forward [6:00] Bill Bird: all right well first of all thank you Mr Mayor and members of the city council um I'm excited to be here tonight to announce midwinter Fest is being held on Saturday February 1st and once again it's out at Johnny Cake Ridge Park on the west side near the Aquatic Center parking lot uh we're hoping for nons spring-like weather like we had last year kind of put a kabash on a lot of snow and ice activities but uh 30° day would be nice um so much you know much of the activities uh will look the same uh however you know we always try to freshen freshen it up try a few new things um this year we're looking to add well it's a new event for this year because it didn't go last year we're doing a uh the Greg dalstrom was uh organizing a ice fishing event for kids and at Cobblestone Lake and it was you know near 50 for a week or so and that never happened um so that will be taking place they're organizing that in partnership with uh Joe's Sporting Goods that's a great partner and then um ice bowling uh we're trying ice bowling this year we've looked at various forms of ice bowling how we can do it um but we'll be coming up with something fun for families to do um on the ice that could be interesting if you're the kind of person who does not like cold weather um can't keep warm please come anyway because we've got a lot of places to keep you warm we've got fire pits we've got the Johnny Cake activity center and we've got the Minnesota Valley Transit Authority warming bus so there's plenty of opportunities to get out of the cold get back in the cold get out of the cold you can keep warm that's all I'm trying to say um the day kicks off um let's see there we go there we go um so the the DAT kicks off as we usually do in the morning uh with a M's hockey Jam Bri or tournament that runs from the morning to the afternoon um something not on this slide that I wanted to mention too is we will have Klondike our mascot for midwinter Fest who's always present at midwinter Fest and a kids favorite we'll have other mascots there as well um and the other thing that was not on there was oh we have a kids DJ and that was huge last year very popular um they do a really good job the kids dance people um so as you can see I mean we've got a lot of this the traditional things and Medallion hunt I was told is this maybe the second or third longest continually running Medallion hunt in the state um I was told that by some Medallion Hunters that go to all the Medallion hunts that keep track of these things um so that's kind of exciting it's always fun um so you can see you know we've got our disc golf snow Shing indoor coloring contest the police do a great job with the garden cart train rides it's a lot of fun um and uh so we get through we get through the bulk of the day there and then the the evening concludes with live music and that's 5: to 7:00 p.m. this year we've got a band that plays part country and then part rock cover songs called the whiskies they've been around quite a while and they're excited to come down to Apple Valley and play I've heard the drummer I think lived in this area so so was a little local connection um so that's kind of how the day breaks down does anyone I'll just my mouse is not working there we go and we'll have food trucks we will have uh the Rotary Club of Apple Valley will be providing hot beverages cider hot chocolate and they'll have water rascals will be there uh providing wine and beer um like I mentioned the mascots some other activities that we've captured over the years in the photos and the fireworks right around 7:30 after the band shuts down the fireworks go up and it's really it's a lot of fun um if you've never seen a fireworks show in the winter it's a little different the the molecules in the air you know it carries the sounds carry different and it's quite brilliant so I recommend and that takes place on the south side of the park for those people that want to just pull up and watch the firework show look South and I think that's about all I have is there any other questions and I guess at this point I just um you know would like to ask the mayor and city council for their support in Pro proclaiming February 1st as midwinter Fest the premier Apple Valley winter event in the city and I invite everyone to participate in this celebration [11:42] Mayor: great thank you Bill thank you we're looking forward to it once again like said some not 20 below and not 50 above in the middle would be ideal be nice all right so we do we have a motion to Proclaim February 1st 2025 as Apple Valley midwinter Fest Mo second motion from council member Goodwin and a second from council member grindall all those in favor any by saying I hi hi all right that carries thank you everyone we'll move on to 5C which is our 2025 proposed budget and property tax levy and Ron Hedberg please come forward [12:24] Ron Hedberg: thank you Mr Mayor members of the council uh as the mayor mentioned tonight is the uh 20 oh look at that 25 budget and tax levy uh consideration for adoption this evening as part of the annual truth and Taxation process so we we um look at the agenda for this evening purpose of the meeting is to present the proposed budget to the public receive public comment and then consider adopting the budget and Levy for the coming year uh we'll cover some of the changes since the pimary budget in September and the U kind of point out that the purpose of the meeting this evening is not to address Market values of individual properties all of that is determined in the spring by the county assessor I've got their I guess Assessor's number there um one one thing as we go through it this evening valuations are are U always important but I do want to point out that the time to appeal that or question your value is when they send out the notice which comes with the property tax bill in the spring so that is the time encourage everybody to look at it and seriously consider um the valuations that the county is determining at that time tonight's agenda we'll look at the overview we'll look at uh the valuation increases we'll talk about the valuation process we'll look at the statements of estimated taxes that everybody would have received right around Thanksgiving we'll look at the tax impacts we'll look at the tax levy and cost drivers that are driving the tax levy increase and we also look at a comparison to other cities and as well as any changes included for payable 2025 homestead credit market value exclusion program um has some changes coming for taxes payable in 2025 that uh will uh benefit a number number of parcels in town budget climate uh the economic Outlook is improving uh interest rates are falling but remain unsettled inflation is moderating a bit currently year-over-year October to 24 to October 23 2.6% compared to uh 7.7% two years ago so inflation is moderating which is an excellent sign state budget uh state is currently experiences surplused recently announced uh that they have an unbalanced budget going forward so projected $3.7 billion Surplus projected for the 2425 bium and a shift uh to a budget 3.1 mil billion dollar shortfall for the 26 27 bonum and this is the the state just announced in November here leaves a balance that Surplus will leave a balance of 616 Million by the end of the 26 27 banum but when they look out the next bium they're they're uh looking at a a deficit of uh structural imbalance of 5.7 billion that they will have to address sometime in the next uh two to four years um because of that uh we likely don't uh expect any change in for the city of Apple Valley in form of local government Aid uh for the coming year unemployment rate is at 2.6% for for the uh for Dakota County the overall residential property values are rising uh overall Total Property class at 0.58% which is probably the lowest that we've seen in quite quite a while we'll explore that a little further medium value home actually is decreasing the coming year 9/10 of 1% to 358,000 the overall all uh commercial property values overall are increasing 10.8% 3 point uh or 4.3% is new construction new commercial construction valuation coming online for payable 20.5 and the other 6.5% of that is appreciation in existing commercial value values talk about the budget process starts each year in the spring with the city council goal setting where the goals are set for the coming year at that time we typically have the preliminary values received in the county we're able to estimate uh the impact to the median value home at that time and this becomes the target Maximum Impact for the budget setting process that we then uh work with staff in preparing a two-year budget uh to Sol uh to address the city council's goals and operational needs of the city and then in August this year we had two meetings in August to discuss the uh the budget with the city council at their informal work sessions in September uh the city council uh adopted a preliminary budget in Levy that is certified to the county assess or auditor that they use those values in preparing the notices of estimated taxes that were distributed in November to each of the property owners and then that brings us to this evening which is the uh the annual uh truth and Taxation budget and Levy me meeting for uh present presenting to the public the very minor updates since the preliminary budget uh there was a final resolution uh distributed this evening or with your Council packet included with that is an exhibit 8 through the resolution resolution the only change was take uh like the preliminary one in September needs to include the word proposed or preliminary or something like that and then the county require that the final one not include that type of language so um those were distributed and then the exhibit there were a couple summary totals the individual budget summary totals were not reflected on that uh summary page for exhibit a so um we did well we did a distribute a couple memos uh U on the valuations from Property Owners we don't have any other significant changes to the budget numbers we did when we did the preliminary in September we had the the fiscal disparities numbers and and the valuations were all are pretty uh pretty consistent with what we were seeing at that time so only a minor adjustment to values and in rates so what we saw in September is what we're seeing this evening uh changes included in the upcoming budget probably the biggest change of course is the levy impact related to the investment in the city's facilities we've got the uh Park Bond uh referendum that passed in 2023 authorizing up to 73 million the uh city has issued 16 million of those bonds and The Debt Service ISS should have been 24 Debt Service starts in 2025 and will continue for 20 years and then we also issued at that same time Capital Improvement bonds uh in the amount of 10 million that plan authorizes up to 41 million for to be used for the fire station upgrades the new fire station at uh uh Station 2 on 140th in Galaxy as well as the police operations building on Flag Staff those are the projects that'll be done well the fire station is done and the police garage will be operation building will be completed over over the coming months leaving a piece of that uh Next Issue would be for the uh approximately 30 million are left of that Authority which would be uh to address the facility needs out of the central maintenance facility look at the total budget of the city the total budget on the expenditure side is $113 million 20,3 239,900 we say the total budget includes not the general government operations that people think about but this actually includes all of our Enterprise funds such as the water and sewer and storm water utilities as well as the U uh liquor store operations so we'll see items for resale 8.6 million that is the liquor store operations uh we've got uh personal services as I mentioned 32% or 36 million got capital outlay and depreciation making up 38 million of our ongo uh 2025 budget we've got Debt Service 1.5 million and transfers out and administrative fees of 8.2 million on the we've got two of these this is the oh just another way to sorry about that just another way to look at it is breaking it down by fund type uh the general fund makes up 41% of the total budget the Enterprise funds liquor water sewer utilities um storm water utility makes up 34% or 38 million of the total budget the road fund is a significant uh piece of our budget at 14.2 million and that includes not just the levy supported uh portions of the street and infrastructure replacement program but also the utility share of of those same projects and then all of our other funds which would uh U is the future capital projects fund the Municipal Building funds the park facilities funds all of that make up the remaining 12% or 13.3 million on the revenue side total total budget uh on Revenue side is 9,65 th000 difference is the investment in capital outlay and depreciation um user franchise fees again this includes the utilities so this would be the water and sewer utility fees as well as the liquor store sales uh we do have the intergovernmental Revenue this is a um the predominant share of that is in the MSA Construction in our road uh and infrastructure replacement program we got licenses and permits which would include building permits and business licenses um other fines and revenues debt issued is zero we don't uh actually we currently in the budget don't have the budget uh The Debt Service funds budgeted so it's not shown as a revenue and then transfers and admin fees of 13.6 million into the utility funds and and then leaves 36% of the budget 35 mil 468,000 is the portion of the total budget that is property taxes and the biggest piece of that is the is the general fund the general fund like I mentioned is a service provider so uh on the revenue side taxes make up 75.6% % of the total budget of the general fund which is the general General government operations police and fire and administration and Building Inspections and imedia development and engineering and public works and park maintenance Park and Recreation um we do have uh fees and charges for all those that makes up the other uh approximately 25% of the budget on the expenditure side for the general fund the total general fund expenses 46 6, 733,000 again we're a service provider 2third of our budget or 64% is just uh personal services which is wages and benefits we also have uh uh Capital outlay which it include the Char ver charges that we set aside money each year for equipment replacement we've got a transfer to the road Improvement fund 4,670 th000 that is the property tax levy support portion of the uh infrastructure and replacement program each year and then we have transfers to the municipal various Municipal Building funds and the remainder is all the other Commodities and contractual Services anywhere from office supplies and motor fuel to contractual services with uh service providers utilities uh another way to look at the general fund is by Department uh our Police Department makes up 31% so this is everything in the general fund related to police Park re Recreation s just over 7 million 15% of the budget Public Works is 177% of the total general fund budget um go around the uh around the pie chart there but just the uh overall view of the general fund by Department talk about property valuations property valuation is a two-year process it starts with the county assessor reviewing properties in this case for the 2025 taxes they start reviewing properties in 2023 and on January 1st of 2024 is their date that they use to assess the value or assign the assess valuation of a property um so then in they use that January 1 valous determination to use for their March property value notices that are sent to the uh property owners and then in March to June of 2024 uh is when the county assessor uh appeal period is and they have a open book meetings during that period where people are welcome to uh make appointments to meet with the County Assessors in June of 2024 the County Board of Equalization met to hear any evaluation objections and take action on that and then in November of 24 the values are then used reparing the parcel specific notices for taxes for the coming year which is what brings us again back to this evening the there is a lag because it's a two-year process there is a lag um between the property's selling price and the assessor assigned estimated market value typically we're looking at values that are increasing rapidly and there's a uh the county assess value is behind what maybe the market value is this year there's been a reduction so the kind of flips so there may be uh a value changes that have occurred since January 1st of 2024 that are not being reflected in the payable 2025 tax notices and then as we look at that calendar two-year calendar this will all start again on January 1st 2025 for the for the coming uh values for the 2020 six tax period again with the property valuations overall property valuations are increasing for all property classes uh 3% which uh uh brings us to 8 8 billion 92 million in property values and we can see that the very top uh property classification residential is actually in total going down 58% to 6 b470 million we'll see the next line there commercial industrial is actually going up 10.8% and when property classifications change dramatically at different rates will result in valuation and tax impacts between between the property classes and we're going to we are experiencing that for the coming year um utilities are going up just 2.2% uh Apartments actually going down we've past few years the apartment valuation been increasing pretty rapidly this coming year um it's showing a total total property class valuation going down 1.4% and again in total 3% uh increase for the coming year as I mentioned the uh when there's a a valuation classification increase in valuation it'll shift the property tax um burden to the other property classes and in this case for the coming year commercial is up much more than residential 10.8 versus residential at 0.58% decline this will result in a shift of the property taxes to the commercial property class it uh actually mimics the shift that occurred last year except last year also included a shift to the apartment class so now this has come back from the apartments um reversing the shift that they experienced last year and even uh with when we look at the taxable Market values in a minute few minutes the even the expanded market value Homestead exclusion program will actually cause a result in a shift to the other property classes including even the regular residential property classes we do have a couple examples of uh that we'll look at with that visual representation this is a a map of the uh the limited market value or the taxable market value is a percentage increase from 2024 to 2025 shades of blue are increases and the darker the shade that larger the increase uh conversely on the on the uh decrease value side shades of red um represent decline so we can see that there's a few pockets of uh certain neighborhoods that have increased for the coming year looking at a two-year change or oneyear change that uh experience larger increases than than others uh it's hard to make out on the map we all know from the map you know we've got Lac laavan Cobblestone uh Long Lake um farore in that areas you can see that those areas have been experiencing uh larger property increases than the other parts of the residential community and then the predominant in the center of the town is the uh commercial areas that are experiencing increases if we look at a 2-year average uh just kind of feather out the impact in the increases in market value we can see the commercial value for just over the last two years is much greater in the commercial area and similar uh with the same residential areas that we just saw increasing uh overall the preliminary tax capacity tax capacity is a variable used in the in the uh calculation of the property tax bills and we'll look at how to calculate that in a minute but we'll look at uh new construction tax capacity added so residential property class increased 1.2% uh for the coming year versus Industrial in tax capacity new construction added 4.17% of tax capacity and the utilities and all the other property classes basically have stayed the same for the coming year if we look at the appreciation or the increase in the existing property values we can see that the residential property class went down 1.57% and the appreciation in the commercial industrial went up 6.3% utilities is up um uh in tax capacity 2.2% and again departments for appreciation is up 3. five or decline 3.56% for the coming year look at them together we can see that uh the commercial industrial both sides of that bar are on the positive side uh 6.3% of appreciation and 4.17% one way to think of uh the valuation changes in uh tax capacity is the new construction adds tax dollars into the into the pool and the appreciation and the change in the appreciation is what shifts it between classes so everybody benefits by new construction and then the appreciation will shift the uh tax burden from one class to the other so when the residential and apartment's gone down the tax uh impact valuation will shift to the other property classes and this is probably more dramatic than we've seen in quite some time medium value home uh for the coming year is declining three uh .9% to 358,000 that kind of moderates that increase we saw two years ago from 22 to 23 where it jumped uh close to 8% so that's kind of a good sign that this is kind of stabilizing a bit the me I mentioned the statements of estimated property taxes payable for the coming year sorry this should actually say 2025 we'll kind of walk through we'll kind of walk through the U kind of the notice I know it's small and nobody can see this so we have two areas that want to point through point out the first area is up in the upper right hand corner and that's where you find the the property classification for the property in this case this is uh this is an actual notice that I found as close as I could find to the median value home that experienced the median value uh increase so it's within a few hundred dollars but on the uh this one it's a residential Homestead Property so if you have a homestead of property take a look there make sure it says Homestead residential Homestead the second place to look is the estimated market value because that is what is driving the whole calculation and then the Third piece to look at is if your home is under the threshold and we'll look at it that in a minute you'll receive a Homestead market value Homestead exclusion which is a reduction in the estimated market value to determine the taxable market value so in this case this property under the previous market value Homestead exclusion they received $467 of reduction in for taxable market value next year with the changes in the Homestead market value exclusion program they'll receive 14267 in value reductions for tax purposes and we'll explore that a little closer the notice also includes the list of addresses and contact info and the tax rates or taxes for each of the jurisdictions in this property here they went up 4/10 of 1% and again this is uh very close to the median home for actual property out in Apple Valley and the other important part of that is it includes all the contact info for each of the jurisdictions and I have received a couple contacts and we'll cover those in a minute on the back of the notice is a recap of all the jurisdictions within the county showing the 2000 previous year 2024 prop total property tax levy and then the tax levy for the coming year and then of course the percentage change Apple Valley on this list second from the top 13.76% increase in the total ly and we'll explore that in uh well in depth in a few minutes and then a breakdown of that and notice some where the property taxes paid actually go the city uh makes up 36.3% of the total tax bill for this residential property for the median value home schools makes up 44.1% count gets uh 16.8% and the remaining 2.8% is uh all the other jurisdictions the Met Council Transit mosquito control uh the Watershed districts we'll explore the changes in the market value Homestead market value exclusion program um the exclusion uh the maximum exclusion every every property will Ex will receive a market value EX usion of 40% of the value and then once it hits the the uh threshold in this case for the coming year 2025 it is reduced by 9/10 of 1% until it's totally phased out at 57,200 and we can see that the maximum exclusion last year and prior years was 76,000 which is the maximum exclusion is when the value any value above that begins to be phased out so that is increased from 9 76,000 to 95,000 expanding the the market value exclusion values for for a number of homes um and then also the the total phase out or the limit uh increasing from 43,800 to 57,200 so this is a lot of uh homes get picked up in that threshold so there's a lot more quantity of homes that are benefiting from the market value Homestead exclusion program for the coming year again the exclusion is 40% of the estimated market value and then the maximum is at that 95,000 and then anything above 95,000 is reduced by 9/10 per of the value over 95,000 until it's fully phased out at 57,200 for the coming year another visual representation you can just see that as the uh value of the r goes up on the bottom the percent of the exclusion received goes down until it's totally uh eliminated 517,000 property tax levy one of the uh components in the property tax levy of course uh our Levy for the coming year is 39,5 29 or 524,000 an increase of four 4,780 th000 or approximately 13.76% we can see the general operations which is well uh operations of the general government general fund um make up 88.8% or increase 88.8% makes up 2.5 million of the increase the street maintenance program went up 310,000 or approximately 7.1% and we have uh facilities Capital Improvement bonds we had a levy last year it's going up approximately some 73,000 700,000 of that is the 2024 uh Capital facilities bonds that we issued in 2024 and then that leaves us with the park referendum bonds we had existing Park referendum Bonds in the past and we still have a few years left on those those are last issued in 2013 um last year the levy on those bonds was 1.1 million it'd be going to 2,3 89,000 an increase of 1 M 1, 255,000 predominantly is the new 2024 uh bonds the park bonds that were issued make up that 1.2 million increase another way to look at it is breaking down that same 13.76% how is each of those pieces how do they make up that uh share of the property tax levy and the property tax bill General operations of the total 13.76% 7.23% is related to General operations the street mogram makes up 89% the facility Capal Improvement bonds makes up just over 2% and the park referendum bonds make up 3.6% in total It's Going Up 3 13.76% this gives you a better way to visualize how what is driving the increase in the Lev uh so 5 uh 5.63% is just related of the increase 5.6% of the increases related to just the the investment in the in the capital facilities for the police and operations building the fire station for the capital Improvement bonds then on the park referendum all the park improvements that were improved in the 2023 referendum look at uh some of the details that make up and is causing the the levy increase again the levy increases 4 mil 780,000 approximately 13.76% and again the voer improved uh Debt Service which is the park referendum bonds is 1, 255,000 we've got the increase in the capital facilities uh Debt Service this is existing and the new bonds 73,000 for the coming year so of the 13.76% 5.6% is the related to the new debt coming online for payable 20125 we've got additional Capital which is the increase of Levy support of the street and infrastructure replacement program and then we have uh actually we reduced the levy we we have reduced uh the transfer to the facilities fund approximately 195,000 for the coming year brings us to the remainder of that we've got a reduction of revenues of um in the budget we budget for court fines and cable franchise fees sell Tower rentals those re revenues are declining so that puts pressure on the property tax levy so the levy this coming year will be going up 160,000 because of those Revenue reductions and then increased salary and wages uh not just colda but step increases for newer employees 1 million 236,000 you got in increased health and tental insurance along with workers comp rates 304,000 and then the course the required uh Medicare F pair 184,000 we do have two Levy supported positions in the general fund that are supported by the property tax levy one's an IT Tech U it technician and then a park admin person uh for the coming year total of 161,000 impact and then we have just increases in contractual Services utilities uh 340,000 and additional capital outlay 262,000 for the coming year one of the things uh we do a lot of comparisons uh with neighboring communities and communities of the same similar size and this is a one of the uh comparisons we do every year and this year uh we uh the Apple Valley Levy is going up 13.76% and you can see were on the high end of this chart uh for the coming year our bar for the city of Apple Valley has a green a green segment and a a uh an orange segment and the green segment is the portion of the levy related to the uh Park bond that is coming online that we just explored a minute ago and then the other U orange or color is the capital Improvement facilities making up that so if we took that off just the percent of or portion of Levy attributable to the park Bond and the capital facilities bonds we'd be right about 8% of our Levy increase which would put us closer back to where we historically had been in the middle of the pack when we look at these Levy comparisons another comparison we do is um the levy increase over the past five years just to kind of uh show the history and this is for uh the 5year period ending in 2024 payable 2024 so these are the the levy increases as certified to the uh Minnesota Department of Revenue so over the past five years Apple Valley has averaged a levy increase of 5.7% which is in the lower onethird of the typical cities that of similar size that we often compare ourselves to and if we look at that same comparison over the past five years with just the larger Dakota County cities again where the where the fourth lowest at 5.7% so uh just the past five years we've been um on the low end of our comparables we look at the tax impacts to the median value home again the median value home is 358,000 we talked about the market value Homestead exclusion in this case they'll receive 14,265 reduction to arrive at a taxable market value of 344,000 that amount times the state classification rate of for residential property is 1% of the first 500,000 gives us a tax capacity for this parcel of 3 3,444 and that number times the T property tax extension rate uh preliminary or rate is 41.6 7% gives us tax taxable tax capacity taxes paid of 1,435 we have some existing market market value based referendum bonds that adds $51 to the calculation so total taxes on the median value of Home City share taxes only of course uh 1,486 for taxes payable 2025 but do uh this just compares to the same calculation but uh compares the median value home to 2024 last year in total they paid 1,366 there will be an increase of $120 approximately $10 per month to 14486 an increase in the taxes of the city portion of the taxes of 88.8% for uh 2025 and again this is the median value home that experienced a decline of 0.94% in valuation uh we can look at the impact just show it impact of the market value exclusion and the thresholds the new market value thresholds will provide additional tax value reductions for homes valued between 413,000 and 517 it's a new program that was expanded the limits so these market value thresholds reduced the overall tax capacity by 1.1 million milon so reducing the tax capacity will uh reduce the tax base which increases the tax rate so in 25 had we been on the old arket value exclusion our tax rate would have been 41.114240 exclusion last year but they are this year so they're going to receive this 414 $415,000 home will receive a home market value homee exclusion of 9,200 in the uh uh resulting taxable market value 45,800 again times the state classification rate gives us a tax capacity for under the new uh uh market value exclusion of 4,7 4,058 compared to 4,150 it had we been under had we not had the uh market value exclusion the rate would have been slightly lower so the U taxes under the new rate is 1691 under the old program it would have been approximately 176 so this home will experience a a reduction in the total taxes pay PA because of the expansion of the market value Homestead exclusion program approximately $15 if you run that calculation for homes valued above the threshold it's between 15 and 20 until it phases out uh at 500 177,000 another way to look at the tax impact now again this is the mediate value home the general operations uh in total for 2025 uh again $1,485 64 uh versus 2024 of $1,365 an increase of $120 or 88.8% we can see that the uh percent in change in general operations 3.5% of the tax impact and the street maintenance program 2.4% and again the the bond Levy impact that we talked about earlier for the facilities Capital Improvement bonds 64% increase in the tax uh Bill related to those bonds for the median value home and again the park referendum uh increase of approximately $50 or increase of 99% in that but if we look at it similar how we looked at the levy of what is making up the component of the total increase total increase is still 8.81% General operations is 2 81 of that uh Street maintenance program is 34% the uh of the increase facilities Capital Improvement bonds make up just under 2% and the park referendum bonds 3.67% so a uh good portion of the tax impact is related to the new debt coming online for the coming year um just another visual representation of the uh share of the annual Property Tax Bill and how it is uh uh used in each of the Departments so if a department uh such a building permit uh Building Inspections has revenues that exceed their total budget so they are not receiving any component of the property tax bill so this is just the the levy supported of each of these departments so some departments have revenues uh for example even the police department has a significant amount of revenues but the levy support of that $1,486 is supporting of the of $418 of that is supporting the police department operations we point out that the street maintenance program that uh upper pie shart High segment that is pulled out there 196% of the tax bill approximately 196 goes to support the street and maintenance annual Street and infrastructure replacement program we've got the capital facilities uh bonds this again is the total so it includes the prior issues $70 and the park bonds again we had prior market value referendum that makes up approximately $100 of the tax bill so one thing that did a little differently this year is try and get a uh uh visual representation of the change in the total taxes so this is uh let's I'll call it my attempt at the total taxes and uh so I took the city's tax rate from the notices I took the county tax rate and I took the school district I didn't take the watersheds and all that because just makes the complication the calculation a little too hard too complicated and it is really a minor portion of the bill but we can see that the total uh T increase in the total taxes and again this is all uh this is just the city's portion I'm sorry so this one is the total tax the tax increase by parcel within uh with Apple Valley related to just the city sorry about that we compare that to this one that brings in the county and the school district and the city combined and we can see um we shift uh again related to the increase in the values that we saw earlier will result in increases or decreases in the uh total tax bill for the city the county and the school district for the coming year the median increase and again this is just Residential Properties is approximately 2% in the total uh increase in the total bill for that we do a comparison of our city taxes on the medium value home again our medium value home we're in the middle of the pack there in the green bar the median value home for Apple Valley is 358,000 there's a percentage in the bar our preliminary tax rate is 41.67 resulting in the uh 2025 taxes of 1486 do that same calculation for each of the comparable cities each year so for example in Idina they have a tax rate of 31.5% but they have a higher medium value home than than other communities so their tax bill for the city portion of taxes is $2,415 and we do that same calculation of the median value home in each of these communities times their respective uh property tax extension rate gives us a a feeling of where we where we are when compared to to other communities and again for taxes payable 202 2 we're in the middle of the pack at 1486 just below burnsville's uh 1529 and just above Lake bills $1,455 for the coming year and again we point out that our uh portion of the tax bill includes the annual support of the street and infrastructure replacement program uh many of the other communities uh Levy or especially asset at least a portion of the uh Street infrastructure replacement program but even Din used to be held out as they would assess 100% of the project they are transitioning away from that u based on uh impact or U input from their do that same comparison with some of the larger Dakota County cities and again we in the middle of the pack at 1486 Mota Heights has a higher medium value home but they also have a high uh property tax extension rate resulting in tax uh the median value on the taxes tax home and the medium value home in Min TOA Heights at 2,236 in West St Paul they have a very high tax rate at 72.4% they have a low medium value home so their medium value home is paying 1973 and again when we compare to the Dakota County cities we're again in the middle of the pack with uh for the taxes payable 2025 one uh one comparison we we do is this is uh state auditor data on total governmental fund expenditures per capita and the most recent uh data available is 2022 and we'll update this each year but we can see that in this comparison of the major uh cities similar siiz cities we are our ranking is the third lowest in per capita governmental fund expenditures per capita at the third lowest at 957 per capita do that same comparison in the larger cities in Dakota County and again coincidentally our our ranking in those cities remains at the third lowest of of those comparisons and again this is 2022 data 23 data hasn't been released yet uh truth and Taxation uh calls received I did distribute or we did distribute two emails that were received um and the emails were concerned about the levy increase one specifically related to U uh the levy associated with the park referendum I did distribute a copy of that and another one uh home on the uh I'll say on the east side of Apple Valley along Diamond path and their their concern is the overall impact of not just uh the new debt but the overall Levy increases is their biggest concern um and then we had another property owner that uh contact me via phone and there his concern is all of them everything all all above he concerned about the levy increase he's conern concerned about the uh dollar impact uh in his case his value went went up because of uh he finished his basement so that's driving part of his valuation increase when compared to the medium value home or medium value increases um the other one I mentioned uh uh that I did distribute the letter on the east side off a time and path their value has gone up dramatically as well over 8% which is much higher than of of course uh many of the other Residential Properties which um um increases the tax burden on his and he also the value of that property doesn't receive any market value Homestead exclusion so um any like to point out every year property valuation and class status uh Homestead status questions we have to direct to the county uh to County Assessors their number is there 651 438 4200 um want to point out that there's a number a few property tax refund programs that with the coming year there may be uh may be of interest for um any of our property owners there's the homestead credit refund program and this is uh it's based on your income and it also in the formula is based on property taxes that exceed as oops a certain percent of your income and again this is uh similar to the program that's been there for many many years the U income guideline maximum for the coming year is 135,000 for a joint household with a maximum refund of 3,000 $10 also included in that refund program is a renters credit refund uh the maximum refund is 2570 and the maximum income household for that is 73,000 270 for and it's based on 2023 household income those two programs are uh dependent on uh household income there is another one a special property tax refund and it's if your taxes total taxes increase more than 12% and the increase is more than $100 there is a refund that you would receive uh and of course the improve increase can't be related to any improvements made um there you can find more additional re uh information on the state of re Minnesota Department a Revenue website or uh actually write on the property tax uh refund uh form m1pr in the instructions will walk you through that I do want to point out that most if not all of the uh uh income tax software that people use have the ability to calculate each of these refunds and actually we'll print the print the forms for you which is quite handy uh there are other programs there is a c senior citizen property tax deferment this is not a refund it is um and again there's income restrictions you have to live in the home for more than five years you have can't have a mortgage balance over 75% and it any uh property taxes that exceed 3% of their net income are deferred so that it becomes a lean on the property and it would stay with the property it does uh ACW interest and then the L the lean would be paid at the time of sale so again some Property Owners may be of interest in that and then here's a couple property exclusion programs there's one for disabled veterans and there's a couple different uh exclusion levels we do have a number of properties that uh participate in this you qualify if you're be discharge from the Armed Forces you have service connected dis disability rating of 70% or higher and then of course you have to own an occupy Homestead Property and that this program is administered by the county and the forms are on their website and I I remember last year helping one gentleman work his way through the county system with that there's another similar program for disabled and the disabled veteran is a reduction similar to the market value inclusion a reduction in the value for tax taxable value calculations similar to that only it's a reduced property classification rate but for disabled Property Owners so uh it includes a reduc reduced tax classification rate for Homestead Property who qualifies as blind or permanently totally disabled uh and of course there's time limits to that and again this status is administrated by the by the Dakota County and again the forms and information would be on their website uh to summarize uh we do have within the general fund Staffing positions added for 2025 we've got a police officer and Records technician those are in the general fund budget so they're in the total expenditures but they are not uh levied supported for 2025 they're being supported by the P state public safety Aid we received last year there's a grad to an engineer professional level engineer that is be funded by engineering revenues and then we have the three uh uh two ly supported uh full-time positions a it support technician and a park administration department specialist then we have a various uh intern positions included in each year um on the Utility side uh to support the increases in the water sewer and storm water utilities the water rate is uh included in the budget as an increase of 5% approximately $351 per quarter do7 per month the sanitary sewer rate is uh included at an increase of 10% 8.73% $873 cents per quarter storm water rate uh is slighted to go up 10% approximately $33 per quarter and then the street light utility up 5% or 36 cents per quarter in total the uh increase in the utility rates City utility rates would be 8% approximately $15.90 per quarter $530 per month uh the 2025 Levy um continues uh that additional Debt Service Levy for the investment in the facilities not just the park facilities but the capital uh uh facility bonds benefiting the fire station improvements construction of Fire Station 2 along with the police operations garage uh the levy and budget for the coming year continues the city Cil gold to not specially assess for the annual Street maintenance program the levy support for the coming year 4,670 th000 that an average increase of 5.2% since Inception which is uh back to 2013 uh this is included as a transfer from the general fund into the road Improvement fund um and again it we feel it addresses the city city council goals Council goals adopted back in the spring and to again to summarize the residential property taxes on the medium value home would rise three 88.8% approximately $120 per year um $10 per month to 136 from $1,365 to $1,486 we've got uh well lots of information available on our website including the full 400 page budget uh with a lot of detail um and with that brings us to the uh the end I asked the city council to well one conduct the truth and Taxation meeting which would be at this point receiving public input and then following that consider adopting the 2024 budget and 2025 property tax levy for the coming year [1:08:12] Mayor: Ron thank you that's supposed to say questions I think in the big yellow box right uh no that's a stop sign for oh okay cuz we do have a lot more we could do all right let's uh take let's take questions from Council first and then any uh comments from there council member Bergman [1:08:24] Council Member Bergman: thanks mayor um Ron um as usual a great presentation however we generally have this must be because this is might be your last presentation before us we usually get something before you get up and talk that oh you've been asked to cut 10 slides out of this generally speaking so this time around it looks like you've added 25 maybe [1:09:07] Ron Hedberg: no actually we cut about 40 this morning the yellow box you just saw those are all after that but no um thanks for all the good work you've done and um um it's an interesting uh next couple years for us it is it is an interesting feeling for me this is uh I was telling Tom this afternoon that this is the 30th one that I've done which is you think of it that way that's kind of disappointing but or depressing rather only 30 right only 30 [1:09:34] Council Member Grindall: Mr Mayor so are we um discussing the budget right now [1:09:41] Mayor: we're just questions we we can discuss if You'like yeah okay okay [1:09:44] Council Member Grindall: um well first of all the one letter we have here could their City portion really have gone from 298 to $2,624 there says yeah [1:09:47] Ron Hedberg: is uh that would be the one over in ever and it's a couple in their 80s are living off Social Security and conservative invested savings yeah their value increased uh uh as he pointed out 8.9% so when the value what we just saw when the value increases more than other properties I guess it shifts the burden to that so they were they're impacted by that they're impacted by the all the other shifts the shift of the market value exclusion they do not receive any [1:10:31] Council Member Grindall: was my question in the valuation so for a 25% increase I assume we're going to just the city portion yeah um I assume we're going to make them aware of any um refunds and stuff that be out there because I don't want people having to move out of their houses because of of what we're doing [1:10:46] Ron Hedberg: yeah the the area there I pointed out there's a few areas around around lakes and ponds and open areas and they are in one of those that those areas experienced uh greater increases in their County assessed values which makes no difference if you're not going to move or anything those numbers are just yeah absolutely um [1:11:13] Council Member Grindall: and so you know I guess you know tonight we were asked um the other letter here has asking us not to go out for all the park referendum dollars and we were asked tonight we only gone out for 16 million me 28 million next year and 29 million the next year and was it 20 or 25% of the of the residents voted in the park referendum I think how much 26 26% so I think we're going to be seeing more pressure if only one one of every four voted if they're saying now we've seen the implications of this and they didn't vote and so now this one is saying um it it it appeared the person probably voted for it just by the wording and it's costing more than what voters thought it would have when it was approved and I I assume all we said was $73 million I mean the dollar amount people didn't know how was it going to impact their house right [1:11:58] Mayor: we did though Ruth it was in every one of those presentations was a breakdown of median and upper and lower numbers so I I take a little objection to that letter and that I think Parks did a did a great job of telling us exactly what to expect along the process so [1:12:12] Council Member Grindall: I'm just saying I think we're going to see more pressure disagree for it and and minimally there right now and I when we had the September meeting I was I said I was going to vote no if we didn't find any more savings and obviously it's the same what we voted for in September so I'll be voting no tonight um bottom line is we never talk about businesses what's this doing to businesses if they're going up 11% what's that going to do to prices in Apple Valley and are we going to become a city that is not business friendly um so we don't even really know what it's going to cost um whatever Ras schools or whatever businesses out there um that has to be passed on um and frankly I saw one um a property tax for a business I didn't know phys fiscal disparities was a separate line item on there I was totally shocked and it was was large um um so anyway like I said for businesses I didn't know that that was a separate line item that we benefit from but our businesses still pay it so anyway um I like I said said I was hoping we'd find a few more um dollars out of out of this um and I know we've all heard this before I mean we can find 2 million dollars for irrigation at at um Valwood and and that didn't go to the voters um so like I say I've I've said my piece and I'm not voting for the budget tonight because it's too high thank you Ruth [1:13:56] Mayor: council member Goodwin [1:14:00] Council Member Goodwin: thank you mayor council member gr to point to only 26% of the people what citizens Apple Valley voted on the park referendum price people should get out and vote they should understand what this is now the park referendum is the biggest cause of the increase in our taxes this year but the people voted for the people who voted voted for it it you got to remember that I mean if a lot of people a lot of people voted for it and a lot of people against it and a lot of people just didn't vote there's nothing I can do about that but that's the way this works [1:14:32] Mayor: R well before you leave this slide do you want to just you want just talk about fiscal disparities a bit and then Ruth I saw you sorry to cut you off but just because I think it's the most confusing part of a commercial property tax bill especially for those who don't pay them and how that works just for the since we brought it up for the good of everyone [1:14:52] Ron Hedberg: sure what I did uh each year we do track or I do track um a couple samples properties this one happens to be right over across the uh Street on 145th I believe or sixth um this property was valued at 1 M 1, 223,000 it did experience an increase of 6.8% which is lower than the overall average of the commercial properties but we have so few commercial properties that we can't really find one at a median value with a increase of that but anyway for example on this property the city the shading didn't come out there very well but the city portion of the taxes went from 5,462 to 6,576 increase of $1,114 or 20% this Recaps their whole notice the notice is would be too small to to actually see but fiscal disparities for commercial property uh 40% of the value is contributed to the Metro White Pool Apple Valley is is a benefit or so those those values the value gets contributed into the pool and the uh uh properties will pay based on a areawide uh fiscal disparities rate so of 40% of their value is uh taxed at fiscal disparities Down Below on that line in this case it's the largest uh tax burden or tax part part of the bill for this property so they'll pay in 2025 $103 45 in fiscal disparities so that those dollars will go to the Metro Wide pool and then that Metro Wide pool consolidates that for the whole metro area and then they redistribute that back out to each of the communities in town and and a it's based on U um the valuation in each commercial valuation in each community so the more you have the less you would get we are as far as the commercial tax base we are lower than many of the rental area communities so we actually do receive uh money back out of the pool as a reduction in the levy so I don't have a slide on how it C the calculation of how it impacts the U the tax rate it's a reduction in the lobby paid by fiscal disparities this just gives you an idea of the various components commercial property pays a state general tax property tax uh for 2025 that's. 29% but they pay to the state they'll pay $6,279 we get uh very little back from great from the state [1:17:33] Mayor: no thanks right the the pooling was kind of the piece I was after there right it's a call it NFL revenue sharing for State commercial property taxes so yeah I got there eventually Ruth you had something else [1:17:42] Council Member Grindall: thank you Mr Mayor so well as long as we're on fiscal disparities I mean the bottom line is the city budget gets money back but our business is actually pay into it right so I mean our business is paying into it corre back for more city taxes to come back to us um but the other thing is the council member um Goodwin's point and I'm not suggesting we scale back at this point on the park referendum but the bottom line is that's up to and we were asked tonight if we were supportive of the 28 and 29 because we're going to be signing um signing contracts um so it's up to council member good when it's not that you can't do anything about it [1:18:41] Mayor: all right any other uh council member questions or comments there'd be time for the public yep or anything yeah I was gonna you you beat me to it thank you Ron or any public comments of course we've taken the ones that were uh emailed to us which always works as well hey Cindy come on up you mind just stating your name and address for the record I that we don't know who you are but uh make the city clerk sh be here sure [1:19:24] Cindy Deos (Citizen): hello thank you for seeing me CC members um my name is Cindy deos I'm at 169 juy Lane um I would just asked that um in your final budget that you do prioritize natural resources I saw that it was rounded up to 1% here but it is technically slightly less than the last version I saw um as you know during the parks buun referendum uh there was a survey performed and 79% of the residents do prioritize natural resources so I would just ask that you consider that in your final budget thank you [1:19:55] Mayor: thank you thank you good to see you too any other comments if not I think we are ready to uh I get back on track here ready to adopt the resolution approving the budget Ron is that our next step all right so we will be looking for a a motion to adopt the resolution approving the 2025 City budget and property tax Lobby and we have a motion from council member Goodwin second a second from council member Bergman excuse me Al those in favor all those in favor indicate by saying I I that opposed I thank you that item carries you okay no I'm good I'm going to just have Christina bail me out and talk about a fee schedule while she does that I will finish choking on the water I just swallowed [1:21:23] Christina (Staff): miror and Council I apologize I don't have any slides um all right look at your staff clapping Mary mayor and councel um this evening we have before you our annual improve approval of um the city fee schedule um so the city fee schedule is a a fairly large document that incorporates all of our different um Cemetery City fees material fees consultant and Engineering Services building inspection and permit fees license and permit fees development fees utility fees and Zoning fees um so we want to put it all in one spot so it's easy for members of the public to find our fees and to find um to find them in one location and that's nice and organized for them um but most fees are generally set to reflect the cost that it um the cost that the city has to either provide that service or um to provide that license manage that particular business activity um and so generally those fees um where there are increases those increases are range from three and a half to 5% um and those are usually driven by either the Consumer Price Index um which has seen an average of about 3.5% over the past couple years or our staffing costs um which in the 2025 budget contemplate about a 5% I shouldn't say contemplate you just approved it have about a 5% or greater um increase in Staffing costs and so that's where those increases then are reflected in the fees um the 20125 budget did include you know Revenue projections based on the fee increases that you now see before you in the proposed um resolution um a public hearing has been noticed um and is required for some of these fee so we just hold it for the entire fee schedule um and I I'm open and available for any questions [1:23:02] Mayor: great thank you any questions if not we'll go ahead and open the public hearing would anyone like to speak to the fee schedule anyone like to speak to the fee schedule one last opportunity we will close the public hearing and we're looking for a motion to adopt a resolution approving the fee schedule effective January 1st second motion from council member Lander a second from council member Bergman all those in favor indicate by saying I I and opposed the schedule passes and we'll have Christina come back up and talk about the renewal of the on sale liquor Wine and 3.2% maltt Liquor licenses for 2025 [1:23:48] Christina (Staff): yes mayor and Council this is another annual item before you tonight um we by city code are required to hold a public hearing for the renewal of our on sale alcohol licenses so before you have you have renewals for 21 on sale liquor with sunde one on sale concessionaire license at the zoo six on sale wine and three2 beer licenses and one on sale 32 beer license um public hearing has been noticed we have not received any public comments regarding these licenses um review has been done by the police department um the finance department for any outstanding taxes or fees we've checked with the state to ensure that their restaurant licenses or Department of egg licenses are um up to date and we have found um no reason not to renew their licenses for 2025 and again I'm available if you have any questions [1:24:34] Mayor: great thank you are there any questions we'll go ahead and open the public hearing for the liquor licenses when any would like to speak to the liquor license renewals anyone who would like to speak one last opportunity last chance all right I seeing none we will take a we look for a motion to adopt the resolution approving renewals of intoxic liquor Wine and 3.2% maltt Liquor licenses subject to completion of submissions so motion from council member grindle do we have a second from council member Mander all those in favor indicate by saying I I I opposed that item carries and that is the last of our regular agenda items and Tom do we have any staff updates tonight [1:25:15] Tom (City Administrator): yes Mr Mayor we do have two staff updates uh I'm going to ask Bill Bird to come back up he told you what was happening in February but the student students are about to let out for the winter break here for school and we have some things going on in December that they may wish to know about [1:25:21] Bill Bird: thank you um a few things even that aren't on there I'd like to mention um are we've ex during holidays when the kids are not in school we expand our open gym opportunities um definitely want to mention that um we have plenty of practices and tournaments and what we really wanted to prioritize drop in times for kids and families as well so we have expanded those are all on our City website um or the park and wreck portion of the website um another thing that's not on here um we have a Christmas program what we've done the last few years it's quite amusing um it's a call from the North Pole where the little ones get a call from Santa or Mrs Claus and if you've been around kids grandkids or even Babys set if you don't have kids you know how you know how those conversations go so it's quite amusing um we have a skating with Santa program this Sunday at the sports arena uh no registrations required we've got some uh art and craft uh programs coming up right before Christmas and then kind of like our um open gym times we're off offering two days of free indoor skating so that's a perfect opportunity to um take your son daughter grandchildren try skating and skate rental are available right so they don't even have skates yes skate skates are available thank you [1:27:18] Tom (City Administrator): thank you may Council I'll take the next next one Tim will call up my slide so there we go as was in pointed out uh council member Tom Goodwin uh has announced and uh will be leaving the city council retiring after 40 plus years on the city council so uh at our next city council meeting which will be on December 26 uh we intend to recognize Tom for his amazing contributions to our community it will be part of the regular agenda at 7 o'clock and then after that it'll probably be the last action item on your agenda for this for that meeting and then after that we will adjourn to a reception so we wish to invite the public uh Tom has met and worked with a number of people over the course of 40 years we certainly want to uh recognize him and uh relive some of the Great accomplishments over the course of that time it's interesting to reflect that back in 1969 when the city council had its had its very first city council uh January of 1969 Tom Goodwin has been on the city council for about 73% of all of the city councils that have ever been in the city so it's an amazing accomplishment uh we want to celebrate with with him and with his family and with those in the community that would like to come forward so I just want to point that out and invite everybody to come on the 26th [1:28:55] Mayor: great thank you where do I get a copy of that we'll get you on we'll get you on how big you want you want to going in Apple Valley by that a good picture though um thank you council members any updates I don't see any uh the next item on on our agenda is to approve our calendar and I know our council meeting on the 26th is on the calendar but the reception for Tom is not and do we need to add that item since we will have a quorum of council members at that event the attorney says it's a social event so um just do not talk business okay perfect and so so I just want to know the attorney said it's okay if I get myself in trouble she said it's fine so we're we're in good shape there'll be cupcakes there'll be cupc all right there will be cupcakes all right so our next regular city council meeting is Thursday December 26th at 7 p.m uh and do we have a motion to approve the count the uh calendar so mov motion from council member grandall and a second from Council M Bergman all those in favor indicate by saying I hi opposed just a reminder that City offices are closed Tuesday and Wednesday December 24th and 25th for the Christmas holiday and with that we'll take a motion to adjourn a second thank you motion from Council M grandall and the second from Council M Mander all those in favor indicate by saying I hi hi hi all right thank you we're injured he didn't like