Heat. Heat. Hello. Down. Heat. Heat. a lot of people. >> We're live. >> We're live. I mean, nobody watch that first part anyway. >> Um, okay. I feel like person. >> Welcome to another meeting of the city council this week. This is a special meeting as everybody knows. So, I call the meeting to order and we're going to move into item number two. Before we do, I think um just some ground rules given that we have a lot of stuff to cover today. Uh we have a lot of presentations from working groups and from uh city departments. Let's see if we can and this is to me first and then everybody else. Let's see if we can let them get through their comments and then >> he says that looking at me and you [laughter] >> I've never interrupted someone in my entire life. >> That's why I told you you use your disclaimer. >> It's cultural. >> Slow down later. >> We over talk. That's right. >> We'll start with item two council administrator. The floor is yours. >> Good morning everybody. Um, so like councelor Lincoln said, our agenda is on the schedule. It's also in the first page of your binder for the public watching. Um, all of the materials are loaded online, so when we refer to things in the binder, it should be online as well. Um, schedule is very important. It's in a page protector to signal its importance. And so the first thing um just to frame this meeting a little bit um every year the mayor count the mayor and the city council and this year the auditor have a retreat to establish their operating budget priorities. Um after that retreat we try to get a consensus around um those things that we are going to really focus on. Um if you remember this year um we had a focus of living um within our means finishing things that we started. And so um in the front pocket of your binder is the action plan that is developed after the mayor council retreat. And so going through I'm just going to go through some highlights from the action plan. it is very long. Um, and you have had some recent presentations on that and so um I'm not going to go through some things that you've already had some recent presentations but just to give a highle overview there were four themes and priorities that were developed. So homelessness, public safety, economic development and children, youth and families. um the implementation plan. Um the things on the far left are kind of those how are we going to do this um problem statements. But then the second column that was developed with the help of the departments, the people that work in this space every day to develop some action plans that were usually budgetary neutral or we knew we had a funding source on these um to carry out. And then a very I think I I told you this a couple weeks ago, very scientific method of red, yellow, green on whether these were um completed or not done by the arbitrariness of me and Marissa on what we thought was red, yellow, and green. So you're welcome to disagree with with those things. So just to go over the first one, homelessness, um there were um implementing the 3 task force recommendations. The vast majority of 3 task force recommendations were complete at the time of the retreat, but we did have um the outstanding residential care center throughout the year that shifted to safe move Tulsa. And you've had several conversations about safe move um recently. Um for housing infrastructure [snorts] that really focused on implementing the IOT3 housing funds. Um you all spent quite a bit of time in May and June doing some mini sessions on those housing funds. Um going through what an RFP could look like for a third party administrator. Um talking about values and the economic incentive policy that will need to be adopted. Uh you will um see an initial discussion of that economic incentive policy next week on your council agendas. Um and so we will continue to have that. The contract for the third party administrator um is actively underway right now with housing partnership network and that should be completed in the near future. And then um on winter shelter um you received an update as well last week on that item. You know that's going to launch in the next couple of weeks. And then on homelessness prevention um lots of items on that. the mayor's council on eviction started but also um work started on that you know quite a while ago. Councelor Bellis participated in a sprint um and continues that work as well. So um program still actively being developed there on the going down to public safety. Public safety is a really broad category that um and you are going to hear some of the public safety updates today. Um that includes from fines and fees, animal welfare, um and the prehosp update today. Um some highlights though from that work is you continued to scale [clears throat] art back in September that launched to 7 days a week and copes was integrated into 911. That was a path to home recommendation um and a frack a first responders advisory council implementation. [snorts] So, on that one, a couple of opportunities maybe to watch for um under animals and and I don't know if they'll highlight this today, but they do have some legislation um draft legislation coming soon regarding um animal dumping and puppy mills to help with that. Um there is potentially an action item you'll see on the plan um with officer retention um maybe a look at a charter provision. Um I would personally need to explore that one more but as you go through your charter work um that was highlighted as something to look at um during this time. And then um there's also an opportunity to really define what it means to be the safest big city um in America. So um that can mean a lot of different things from pedestrian safety to safety of having uh housing um to crime safety. Um so it you can really explore that one but that's probably an opportunity for next year as well. Um going back up to economic development also have several reports later today in that category the development process Route 66 um initiative and tourism. You heard obviously on Wednesday a potential long-term initiative for tourism with the hotel motel tax um on housing infrastructure. The city's GIS team did work with public works and our housing personnel at the city to develop um some maps around zoning, water and sewer infrastructure need on those projects that submitted for the request for information for the housing projects. And then on children, youth and family, um most of those items, you had a report back [clears throat] in October on this. Um most of their items were around um establishing that group the children's cabinet as well as establishing the first year work plan. Um you saw a report that both of those um were complete. And then really quickly just to highlight um in the budget process there was about $2.5 million in revenue enhancing um initiatives but a lot of those required um additional proposals to be brought forward. So, those you see in tan on this screen are ones [cough] that have been completed. Um, on the police and fire special event, remember the initial proposal on that was a higher fee. Um, and it didn't have a graduated implementation. Um, so when that ultimately passed, um, I [clears throat] don't think that first increase starts until January of this year and then it goes up from there. Um there are three that have not been um implemented yet. Um there was a parking um potential increase. They decided on that one to wait till the parking study was finished. Um I've not seen the results of a parking study, [snorts] but I think maybe they preliminarily came back. Um so that is something to watch for. Um, we would have uh last week we just ran or this Wednesday uh we just ran out of time, the motor vehicle accident claim. Um, so you will see that on committee next week. And then um the last one to the bottom that's not highlighted, the special event service fee, that one actually does not require council action. That is a contract issue um with B. I don't believe um that has been completed yet. Um but that is essentially uh surrounding police support um when we have those like largecale events outside of the BOK um and the cost for that traffic control outside of the BOK. Um when we were in our budget process in June, there were three items that you all wanted to watch um throughout the year. Some was just a monitor, some was looking for additional funding. So, one item was public safety overtime. Um, at the small budget committee on the 12th, we'll get an update on how we're doing on public safety overtime and then we'll make sure to share that um with the full council after that report. Um, councelor Bellis wanted us to identify and watch the state of mental health funding. Um, maybe we're in the sameish place we were in June. um maybe more unknown still on that one. Um but that could impact some of our programs. And then early settlement um there was a desire maybe to um talk with surrounding communities on contributing to that program. And um that is the very high level overview of the mayor council retreat >> in the year following directions too >> just on the early settlement. >> Did we also recently have a conversation about possibly using those attorneys for some of the eviction work we're looking at or did I dream that? >> Oh no that's a that's a possibility um as well. Um that obviously anytime you increase a workload >> Sure. >> Um would probably come with a funding request as well. So >> So on >> early settlement, >> do we have that slotted in for an agenda item anywhere? >> We do not. And I'm not sure who is who has taken the the lead on that. >> I'd like to go ahead and just do it and start asking people to come to the table so that we can understand. I last night and >> somebody during >> um Mayor Randle's tour >> um I can't remember what the the breakout is of how much comes from Tulsa County, how much comes from the city of Tulsa, what their total expenses are and then how much we would need to raise from them given that in the plan year it's for half of what we allocated this year is >> I would encourage I know like the folks that are currently using the program but I think it would be good to have a civil legal access kind of expert overall like if we wanted to get either someone um who runs like a civil legal clinic or like Katie uh Dilks with access to justice just because per counselor decorates point maybe there's an opportunity to like broaden kind of the scope of what they address or the type of cases they come in on in those kinds of civil legal access proceedings >> a little more efficient with how we spend the dollars >> or it could happen right with some of the like helping [clears throat] people like with eviction mitigation or like you know things like that >> could become robust write a letter to the other municipalities that touch just to asking them to chip in. >> We want to do this much. Countyy's already doing this much. Can you each do 2500 or 5,000 bucks, whatever the number is? >> And I think we encouraged our commissioners to also have that conversation. >> We did. Yeah. >> We're just going to have to I just don't want to have this conversation in May. >> No, >> it's better to have it now. >> Yeah. And I think if I remember, Terry Simson came and spoke to us and then we had the realtor community also explain to us like how that functions. So there's a a broader there's a broader um service pool of how these services are used that informed our understanding. So maybe we >> use all that as we're talking to our nearby communities. >> Yeah. There may be other donor prospects too. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Any other questions? >> What else? >> Public safety meeting national standards. I heard what you said like there's a lot of ways we can define that. So, >> um I guess just my question is do we already know what national standards we're not meeting or that we're striving to meet or is this for us to kind of >> more broadly look at? >> It seems like to to me just based on that um we tal we started talking around that a little bit and how you left the retreat was hey there are standards in certain areas um that we can go look and try to meet. It's so broad and and diverse of what they could be and so it seems like you need to pick three to five or or something like that. Um Laurel sent me an initial link um that was lots of broad different categories. Um and so I think you kind of have to think what have you heard from citizens? >> What what do you want to look at? Are these are our key areas? And then we go find those standards to see how we measure up. But I can share the length out. >> I would say that we should also look at the equality indicators to inform like >> maybe how we get to the three to five. Well, I was going to say maybe what we could do because there's the really classic things you think of when you think about public safety related to like you know like crime and like um what kind of criteria we're meeting whether it's like has to do with like staffing or like you know like in a very traditional public safety lens and then I am thinking about when you think more broadly for um Sarah's point earlier about you know is it safety when it comes to accessing I don't know healthcare housing like all these other concepts that's where I do think more of the equality indicators or neighborhood conditions index. So maybe there's like kind of I just am hearing like kind of two tracks of traditional concepts with public safety like police, fire, right? Compared to more related to kind of socioeconomic safety maybe and so maybe there's like a two track kind of way we look at it to determine if >> I think we already have indicators that we've been monitoring to inform policy. So >> yeah, >> like the conditions index, the equality indicators. Um but yeah, we could use national certifications that we already achieved. Really establishing those that also helps you align any um program outcomes. It helps you align your data collection. So all those things are are huge things to do. And so if we're if we're too scattered, you're not going to be able to do it. So really honing in on that >> um >> and like measuring outcomes >> I think would be helpful. >> Yeah. Well, I might think too, if I may, that that would work across all the aspects that we're talking about as well. >> That's interesting, especially if we could find data points that are good proxies for like a broad array of them. So, that way it's >> I don't know, we're like getting kind of an more encompassing look. >> I have one more question. So um on the children, youth and families >> before the end of last fiscal we moved 110,000 to kind of exceed the start and then in this budget year we have 275. Is that correct? >> Yes. So the all in >> maybe 115 275. Yeah. >> 115 plus 275. >> Okay. So all in right now we're at three. >> Which one? >> Children >> just I'm trying to wrap my head around the initial investment we've done. So there was a 1:15 like springish launch >> probably in March or April >> of last year and then at budget time we appropriated 275 for the year. So all in right now we've invested 3.90 on the launch >> and so I just um wanted to remind myself that's what we have committed to doing at this point because as we know some of the other conversations that are ongoing is you know to what level are we going to provide more funding and things. So, I just right now we're at 390 and there was some sort of talk about some matching dollars or private funding and that's what came up a few weeks ago from councelor Gilbert. I think we saw 70 or 90 plus inind technical assistance. But I just I really want to >> keep monitoring what the investments are compared to what >> outcomes outcomes are and what folks want it to be or think it needs to be. I know I'm getting a lot of calls right now from people who are on the front lines of this thinking that the city is going to get to a place where a lot more money is going to be coming to them and I just want to really level set and set expectations >> for what we're doing right now. And >> did we hear what the outcomes were of the 115 >> or is that startup costs? >> Well, we've got the advisory >> group and the >> and we haven't even gone through that. um with the advisory group um councelor Hall Harper, you're on on that as well, but we've >> that hasn't been discussed in our meetings uh any financing. Yes. >> So, >> we're focusing on uh initiatives and areas of >> right strategic planning. >> So, it is start [clears throat] to develop the work from what I I don't go to those meetings, but it was to develop the work [cough and clears throat] plan. Um, and then I know they have different I'm going to call them work groups, but I think they call them something else. >> Action, >> action, >> circles, alliances, >> alliances. >> Um, that that they work in key. So, I think it was to set up that structure was that first investment. >> Okay, we're at time for this section. >> Oh, thank you, Council. We're at time for for [snorts] this section. So, [laughter] >> I even have the times on my agenda. They're on the page on the eliminated >> if you recall the the page protector. >> Do I need to go downstairs and get the timer? [laughter] >> Animal services working group. So this is Gilbert and I >> um I'm kicking off but then I don't have to then we really have yeah Sher and Caes >> saying the wealth of expert >> minutes for this. >> Um yep. Um, >> I'll open up with the most important thing, which is that councelor Bengals a cat person on the record. Okay, next. >> Okay, >> so um, as as we've previously Oh, I'll give a sec for the slides to pop up real quick. Um, >> or I could I could just start. Whatever. I want to make sure we get straight to the info. All right. So earlier this year, you know, this working group, we, you know, came to the table and shared our goals, um, of what we would be working on, um, which includes, of course, one, the progress for pause campaign to fund raise, um, and secure funding for, um, additional and important amenities for the new shelter. Uh, two, collaborating with the animal welfare commission to develop policy recommendations and pursuing those. and then three to collaborate with the animal services team to develop a staffing and budget proposal for the new shelter which is what we're largely here to talk about today. Pass it over to councelor Gilbert. >> Absolutely. Before we get started, um I'll be doing a quick overview of what we'll be covering in this presentation. Uh, one, we will walk through the core objectives for the new facility, then take a closer look at the latest animal uh, service data, and finally present a proposed staffing plan and budget recommendations. And I will hand it over to our one wonderful director of animal welfare. I >> think we're still uh looking for the slide deck, so I'll go ahead and start while we're finding that. um start with new shelter goals and I just want to express um our deepest gratitude for you all for your support um to continue for continuing to prioritize us at animal services. We appreciate that your dedication and your leadership. So, thank you very much for that. Um, we also want to acknowledge the staffing increases over the last few years and no reductions in staff for 2026 and adding that uh part-time vet with contract has really been beneficial. She just started and we're seeing a difference of animals coming out of the facility and not having the long wait times for spayneuter uh when when animals are adopted to get them out. Um we've worked really hard with the resources that we've had available to us and um we've accomplished many things and we want to kind of talk about what our goals are for the new shelter. Um some of those improving animal well-being, retaining our talented staff that we've recruited, worked very hard to recruit over the last especially three years and then meeting expectations from the public. So goal number one is animal well-being. The new facility enhances the ability to manage public health and safety concerns. uh whenever we have to close for significant reasons, disease, whatever the case may be, it really uh hinders us in providing services to the public. We have to euthanize more animals that are sick and it impacts our ability to secure our transfer partners to get animals out of here to different states. And just as important, this shelter was designed with animal well-being in mind. So we have a modern approach, additional space, outdoor areas for exercise and enrichment, more kennel uh more kennels than we have now. And then we have expanded veterinary clinic and surgery uh clinic options. Now goal number two, we want to keep the talented uh team that we have created and uh with sustainability. So we we will have a better working environment for our staff at the new facility, much better than than the old one. Our team is doing just incredible work under stressful um conditions and multiple animals in the facility every day. Very challenging and we've been under staff for a few years. So we're we continue to strive to work on that and again we we appreciate you all and your support for that, your leadership. Uh our current staffing levels are below recommended standards, national standards, and um our kennel workers are caring for about four times the number of animals that national standards suggest that they do. Um, without enough vet staff, we can't offer more community spayneuter events and services and animals taking up space in the shelter because they're waiting um to go home, which the the part-time vet has kind of uh helped with that, assisted in getting animals out faster. But with the bigger bigger facility, more kennels and more animals coming into the new facility, we'll definitely have to address those issues as we move forward. Goal number three, public safety and expectations. It's very important for us that we're serving our community. Um we're trying to do that the best of our ability, what we have right now. And moving forward, um we're looking at protecting residents from at large dogs, providing more services to the public than we are currently, and increasing our live relief rates. So, we talked about when we talk about protecting residents from out at large dogs, uh, public safety is one of our top priorities. And I know it's also the cities, our new facility and additional staff. Um, give us more space and more resources to respond more quickly and effectively. Our numbers are trending upward. Um, in 2024 we had a 6% increase in stray intakes compared to 2023 and we are projecting 19% increase in 2025 over 2023 for stray intakes. So to help address this, we've made some policy changes uh in our intake process and for citizen surrender and we are implementing more targeted proactive patrols in certain area of our areas of our city uh for the challenging number of animals that are coming out of there. We have been consistently over capacity for multiple months and years. I think our last report card last week, we were at 130%. Um, regularly operating beyond what the facility is designed for currently. So, this does put the stress on our staff and animals. Uh, limits our ability to take in new animals and respond quickly to public safety concerns. So, if we can staff the new shelter properly, it's going to ease capacity issues, give us more space to take in stray animals, stray dogs especially, and it's going to give us time to get dogs that are adopted out of the facility so that we don't have to decide other outcomes for them, providing more services. Um we're also seeing significant rise in other services like owner owner surrendered animals. So in 2024 our owner surrendered animals increased by 40% compared to 2023. Um leading causes of surrender cost of food veterary care financial burdens also housing issues. Uh people are moving breed restrictions in apartment complexes. Um, not only is there a deposit for apartments now, there's also a monthly fee. So, we're definitely seeing the impact of that at the shelter for people that are living in apartment communities. We have made some policy changes that are pretty important um with the reasons behind surrender and offering resources to try and help people keep their pets in their home so that we don't get them in the facility. uh and timing intake appointments based on our capacity at the shelter and um obvious obviously emergency situations that uh people have that are coming in. So we really have to be diligent about making those decisions so that we're not just packing in more animals than we already have. So we go to our live release rate. Um, I'm sure you've heard the term no kill shelter, which is equivalent to 90% live release rate. Our public expectations around municipal approaches to animal services have kind of shifted over the years. So, we are in a current facility that was really made for uh capture loose animals and euthanizing. And that is not where we are today. Our residents expect to demand that the city house, rehabilitate, and adopt our animals. Um, using humane euthanasia only for health and behavior issues. And um, industry standard for the expectations is the 90% live release rate. So in the last uh, three years, we've gone from 66% to now trending 78% today, which is a significant increase. And um our staff, our team is just trying their best to keep on increasing those rates to release as many healthy animals as we can to the appropriate families and to other cities and states um so that we can save those lives. So we'll get into the data. I'm going to let uh Colton Jones explain some of those statistics for you. [clears throat] >> We've kind of talked through the goals. We want to take a little bit of a look at the data behind our operations. These numbers help tell the full story of the progress we've made, where we're stretched then, and where we've identified opportunities to improve outcomes for both animals and the community. So using 2023 as our baseline just to illustrate the progress we've made. Uh first want to say in 2023 we had 7200 animals enter the facility. In 2024 uh 8,500 so that was an 18% increase. And projections this year will be uh above 9,000 animals. So that is another that's total increase for 2025 projected at a 20 26% rise. However, in light of those circumstances, we have still been able to do what Sher just mentioned in from 66% to 73% in 2024 to now trending at 78% 2025 year to date for our live release rate. That includes numerous internal policy changes, fully leveraged our community partnerships. Uh but we're still working to reach that uh kind of industry standard of 90%. [snorts] The adoption rate has increased by 43% in 2023 to 2024. Streamlining that process um expanding our social media presence, especially with the help of some of uh the friends of TAS to highlight adoptable and at risk animals. uh for 2025 we're projecting about a 51% increases above to where we were in 2023. >> And I just have to give a shout out to our communications department who have really worked with us over the last several years to increase and boost our social media. They've been amazing to partner with and get that that information out to the public and increased our followers. So without that and the success of what we've established with them and the partnership, there's no way that the increase in adoption rates would have gone up. >> So [clears throat] likewise, the reduction in youth in Asia rate in 2024 dropped by 9% as opposed to 2023 projected this year around a 22% reduction for 2025. biggest things there are really promoting at risk animals. Um we have done significant work, enhancing our shelter diversion strategies and a lot of effort into increasing our transfer to rescue organizations both in state and out of state. But [snorts] we've maxed out those transfer partnerships, increasing our transfer rate by 11% in 2024. And so far we're up 21% for 2025 as opposed to 2023. >> And I just want to ping off of what Colton said about those transfer opportunities. So the being the facility we're in right now with really no proper HVAC system, no proper uh quarantine areas, that is huge. that's so successful for us to be able to maintain the health of animals to get them transferred out of here into different states. Um the new facility is really going to change that concept. It's going to be much easier for us to do those things. So I just wanted to make sure that you all aware that it's just a significant impact from going to this old facility to the new facility to be able to enhance those services and make sure we're getting animals, healthy animals out of here. So, our staffing plan and budget recommendations, um the numbers show what's possible with our strong teamwork, uh smart policy, and committed partners. It also shows the limits of what we um can do uh without unleashing additional space and staffing. So, um, without staffing and space, it's going to be very difficult for us to, um, move forward with expectations of the community and for our animals. So, our current facility is 16,000 square feet. We're we're moving to 24,000 square feet. Um total kennel space increased approximately 240 kennels to 374. Current facility is equivalent of about eight dog pods with 162 [snorts] dog kennels, one cat pod and 76 cat kennels. The new facility will have 11 dog pods, 234 kennels, two cat pods with 140 kennels. Um each individual kennel will be about twice the size of what we have now. Uh it's about 4 by seven which is a standard. We're managing the current shelter with 45 team members. Um stretched pretty thin to date. We're managing the uh or excuse me to open all the kennel space in the new shelter. We're going to need about 54 employees. With 45 employees, we probably will not be able to open uh three dog pods and one cat pod. and um would not be able to manage the space and the needs of the animals with the current number of employees that we have. So our budget recommendations, we recommending in FY27 proposing four additional kennel workers. That would bring our total from 8 to 12 uh working two shifts split. So only half are there at any given time. Um, even when the with the increase, we'd still be operating with a lean team, one additional vet and vet assistant to provide additional animals uh care that we expect to take in. They increased with the larger facility uh to help continue to increase our live release rates and then to also um get those animals out of the facility for spayneuter surgeries and to go home. Uh we are proposing one additional office assistant. Uh in a five-month period, we got 28,000 calls uh that were recorded for our facility. Um one dispatcher has trouble keeping up. It's also a safety concern for us when we're talking to ACOs that are out in the field responding to calls. Uh not answering phones is the number one complaint that we get at the facility. We are proposing two additional ACOs. More animals will be coming in with a larger facility. Um they're already covering a large area um hard to manage with 200 square miles. We also hear from the community at every community uh event and any kind of uh community uh meeting that we attend that we people want us to enforce spayneuter uh with the current acco numbers that we have is just that's just not feasible for us. Um ACOs are also versatile employees. They handle shelter intake. They are uh one of our only euthan euthanasia certified individuals. They go out and talk to kids at school. They contact schools for lockdowns when dangerous dangerous dogs are in the area. Um they're now responding priority calls to schools and attempting to go to schools in the morning and when they release in the afternoons. It's very difficult with the number that we have. Um, so it's extremely difficult to do all that with the staff we have, let alone adding more work with a larger uh animal services facility. In FY228, we would anticipate carrying forward [clears throat] the 2027 and building on the foundation. We would uh propose adding two ACOs, four adoption counselors. Um, this these positions would really increase our live release rates. We improve placement and we would hopefully reduce the animals coming back into the facility that weren't appropriate going out because we didn't have those conversations that probably could have changed the outcome of the animal coming back. Uh, one office assistant and then in FY29, uh, we round out our acco team by including two more officers. um because they're so desperately needed and I think these these staffing recommendations, the adjustments are definitely needed to open the new facility. It allows us to maintain clean safe environments, have enrichment care for the animals coming in, uh avoid the kind of burnout that leads to turnover. We don't want to lose those dedicated team members that we have really worked hard to recruit and retain and um allows for less gaps in service. And I will uh pass back over to councelor Nib. >> All right. As we plan for the transition to the new shelter, there is an additional budget consideration we want to highlight. The potential continued use of the current facility. There are three main reasons this may be necessary. First, uh the existing incinerator cannot be relocated to the new facility. We will need to maintain access to the current site to continue that function. Uh second, the current facility may serve as a quarantine space for emergency intakes and transfers. Uh this would give flexibility during high volume periods in response to public health concerns and during storms or other emergency situations. The space could also host large spay neuter clinics, but the city would not staff the facility. A community partner could lead it. Um, and third, the current facility has large storage containers that there isn't enough room for at the new facility because of the small footprint. The current shelter does need a new roof at a cost of about 500,000, but the annual maintenance costs mainly involve unclogging drains and fixing kennels. We've learned that there's quite a few tennis balls stuck in the drains. Oh, all the cats. >> So, cost over the past 10 years, we're sorry, I had to put some humor in there because we were getting too serious. [laughter] Um, cost over the past 10 years were estimated to be about $190,000 a year. These considerations don't change the overhaul the overall production, but [clears throat] they do require thoughtful planning and additional investment. What's the round number? Sorry, I missed it. Was it 500? >> That's a one time. >> You said 190. >> No, the 190. >> Well, then the 500 actually is going to be 6.90 because the current shelter needs a new roof at about 500 and then um cost over the past 10 years to unclog drains and fix uh kennels were about [snorts] 190. >> So, one time cost 6.90. Yeah, ongoing cost >> would be 190 annually. >> Should be actually a little lower since it's not >> the shelter wouldn't be full, >> right? >> But at least the 690 question. >> I'll turn over because we have >> Hold on. We're not done yet. >> Yeah, keep going. >> Trying to get to the dollar. >> So, we'll we'll close it out. I just want to tell you all I thank you again for your support uh your leadership prioritizing the safety of our community, the well-being of our animals, the needs of our team members. Um we're grateful for your partnership as we move forward. Um the progress we've made so far is a a direct result of your strong leadership. So we can't thank you enough. Our dedicated staff is another uh direct result of that. and um we believe we can build a shelter system that truly reflects the values of Tulsa and the citizens and what they want, what they need, what they expect from us. So um thank you. >> Okay, I'm going to ask a quick question. So, so I know this isn't just continuing what we have done because you're doing it in a different way, but do do other shelters anywhere else in the country infuse half a million or a million dollars in doing this massive spay and neutering program so that we don't have to continue to invest in animal control officers and additional spays and additional kennels and adoption. Is Is there a strategy that works that that dogs and cats can't reproduce that we don't have as many to care for? >> So, I can tell you right now, um, we talked about this a little bit in the working group. Uh, the way we're facilitating larger spayneuter clinics and where we see a need from heat maps or requests from like the neighborhood um, NCI meetings. We did some surveys to see who would benefit from those services, but literally we utilize our partners um because they are they have resources we may not have. We take those mobile units out into the community and we provide spayneuter services. So you could get maybe 50 to 75 a day, but you're literally taking resources from already existing places that are doing those things anyway. So, you're really just kind of moving pieces around the city. Uh, yes. The answer to your question is yes. There are cities and animal services places that have spent dollars to have large spayneuter clinics and that would be something we want to do in the future, but not taking the current resources from our partners and to bring >> That's an important element. What if what if we found $500,000 $500,000 new dollars from any source, private or public? >> Yes. Would would that make a significant effect? >> We think it would. >> What you end up seeing coming into our >> Clinton? I I think yes, we think it would because we could bring outside resources in to facilitate those things. Yeah. >> So, it's a brand new uh mobile concept of not, you know, utilizing the current resources we have, not pulling a vet out of the shelter, not asking a a vet from SPCA or Humane Society to come in and take resources from their already daily work. We would want to bring that outside into Tulsa. If there's any stats on that, if you invest hundreds of thousands of dollars for spay [clears throat] and neutering efforts, how much does it reduce whatever you end up with at the shelter? That would be ideal to know. >> Yeah, we could we could try or something like that. I don't really know how to analyze it, but I I would just like to see what the outcomes are from that kind of investment because I don't know I don't know how its >> Yeah. Just forformational purposes too, the cost amount [cough] of If you had those services done not at a mobile clinic or a lowcost clinic, you're probably looking at four,5 $600. And what we have dedicated the things that we have done and the estimates we have done with our partners, we can do it for about $99. And that is spay, neuter vaccinations microchip rabies leash collar everything. >> Yep. Well, if you ever get any data, please send it. >> We have some now and we can get >> Okay. Okay. Yes. Uh Anthony Carol. >> Okay. Thank you for your hard work and um this presentation. I had a question about the on the budget recommendations page. Just to clarify, we have a a bet that's on halfime. Uh for the 27 budget, there was a recommendation for a veterinarian at a certain salary. Does that represent bringing that vet on full-time or adding an additional individual at that facility? >> It was full-time. So, okay. For the new facility and the size and the amount of animals coming in, we would recommend two and a half veterinarians. >> Okay. So, two and a half veterinarians. Um, and then a newbie question. So, of the 9,000 that are projected to come into the facility, all those animals are coming from Tulsa or are there folks from surrounding communities that are bringing >> We actually turn you away if you are from the surrounding [snorts] community. >> Okay. >> That doesn't mean there's not dumping, >> right? >> Or also animals don't recognize municipal boundaries. >> Exactly. >> Allegedly, >> but we [laughter] don't take >> We do not take owner surrendered animals from outside of the city of Tulsa. Now, stray animals if they happen to come into our jurisdiction and we catch them on our side, then yes, they do come in. >> Bush, >> um, remind me are do we have to staff it 247? You have n people that have to stay there. >> We don't have the shelter staff 24/7. We [snorts] do have ACOs that are on a standby rotation schedule. So, they are able to respond to high priority calls 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. And that includes our on call veterinary supervisor and veterinarian if we have emergencies coming in. >> Okay. Is is the national standard to be 247 or I mean are we not 24/7 because we're underst staffed I guess is what I'm asking or is there a need to be 247? We have actually reached out to um larger partners and other facilities to get recommendations and we have discussed doing like a day and a night shift before but we don't currently and haven't proposed projections yet for the new facility to do that but yes it it does happen. >> Okay. And then a second question. Um, what is the return rate? You said the ones that >> roughly about 10%. >> 10%. >> Okay. So, it's not too bad. >> And so, it's not horrible, but it what happens is animals will leave the facility. Um, because everybody kind of comes in and you shop with your eyes. >> Yep. >> You adopt with your eyes first. Um, and whenever we try to have a conversation with you about, hey, this dog's going to be hyper, this breed is hyper, [clears throat] that they're going to require a lot of time, effort, and attention, people don't hear that. Um, and they also don't like we give them an entire bag that has a whole lot of information. Um, and we try to hit the high points, but whenever we've got 20 people standing in our lobby all waiting to adopt and I've got two front desk people that are just trying to get through the paperwork as quickly as they can, >> we can't we don't have the time to have the conversation with you of, hey, by the way, when you take this animal home, it needs to stay secluded for 3 days. >> Yeah. >> For 3 weeks, it's trying to learn its new environment. It doesn't feel at home for 3 months. So don't just go home, take your three or four animals, whatever you have at home, and dump your new dog into it and expect everybody that's just going to go, "Oh, hey, look, a new friend to play with." It does not work like that in animals. >> And that's why that's significance of the adoption counselor, right? >> Lended family. Boom. >> Boom. [laughter] >> Come on, everybody. Love. >> Okay, we have three minutes. >> Sorry, Dr. Right. >> Yes. Thank you. Uh, just mathing over here. So, uh, fiscal year 27 28 29 is getting us to the 1.8 that we kind of talked about. Just wanted to break that out. And then additional budget consideration, current use of the facility, which is one slide forward, I think. 690 onetime cost, 190 annual. Well, this is outside the 3 million that is this friends of Tulsa services that is in a kind of close the gap on nice to haves at the facility. >> Yes. Which are also onetime expenses or maybe ongoing as the fundraising continues. >> We would hope that the 190 that was over the 10-year period uh would be a significant decrease yearly because we wouldn't have animals full-time in the facility. >> Okay. Can we get a better number at some point where we think that is? that would be funded out of a general fund, not philanthropic donor dollars in this other fund. >> I think it could be both. >> Okay. I'm just trying to get a sense of dollars. And then for those of us who are here for IOT3, >> the the keeping the facility open, was that something we discussed with dollars? >> We discussed it. I don't think we discussed dollars. >> I think there was a question like what we would do with it. And at the time the IoT3 package was crafted as if that would be surplus or closed down. >> Like this is the first time I'm hearing that the incinerator and things can't move. So >> red flag on the play is what I'm going to say to that. Okay. Thank you. >> Okay. Councelor Dutton. >> I have a short question. When the new facility was approved, was there initial consideration about staffing and the cost of staffing? >> So, a new facility was already in design whenever both Sher and I came in. >> So, I think it was on a 10-year plan >> as of doing this for a long time. Well, I just wondered if there was this initial cost associated with the new shelter for the staffing and the vet care. And >> so, I've only been here seven years and there's people who've been here longer. >> Three years ago, they didn't even have like an X-ray machine over at the current facility. And the vet was part-time part-time. >> We had a full-time vet, but then we had a little lag per week of no vets. So >> contract >> um I think the city has known staffing has been a challenge and equipment and all the things as we went through the IOT3 process. We were very focused in on the capital side. So I don't remember when we were talking about like building a facility also having a parallel discussion about what the staffing would look like. >> My recollection is the first time we really kind of honed in on what that like on-ramp was going to look like was last budget. Um although they have been asking for positions just in the current facility but when we really like looked at like how do we get to opening a new facility that conversation happened last year >> right I knew that conversation had happened last year but it just seems delayed in the fact that we wanted this new facility and we funded the new facility and there wasn't that conversation initially about how we're going to budget for >> all the needs. So that that's it that's thank you. Do you have anybody else? >> Oh, >> I just want to say thank you to the working group. I was on it before and you all continue to do the work with Sherry and Colton and also the commissioners and I know it's one of the most passionate topics of discussion amongst the constituency and Tulsa loves their animals and you know there's some upstream solutions that we really need our state and federal partners to look at especially at the state level. So, as we continue to, to your point, counselor, like how much investment do we have to to get to, right? We need the state to come through with some of these things that we've been asking for for a long time. And maybe the way we do it, cuz I know the rural urban thing happens, is we restrict it to municipalities of greater than 400,000 residents. So, it really impacts the urban areas where we have a different situation than how our more suburban and rural communities. handle their pets. >> How do you what do you ask from the state? [snorts] >> What what >> some of this puppy mill stuff and selling pets from >> retail establishments. I mean, there's just been some things that impact how animals >> show up in our community. >> Okay. So, we were not asking the state for money? >> No, just some policy change. >> I don't believe there was a monetary ask. It was just policy. >> The policy. But we could. >> But but seriously, if there's a disruptive element of of this cycle that we're in where we're going to continue to do things similar to the way that we've been doing, they're not the same way because obviously we're doing stuff differently at this new shelter compared to the previous shelter. >> But if spay and neutering really does provide a a very high return on the number, it decreases the number of cats and dogs that we're going to have in. Why wouldn't we why wouldn't we figure out a way to do that >> like just inject a whole bunch of money in to this problem so that we don't have an ongoing >> Yeah. There's it's an upfront that you can then sunset later. Totally. >> Okay. Councelor Gil Gilbert, bring us home. >> Yeah. So, I just want to give a big thank you to Megan and Marissa because they lead us in our working group and have they always put together such wonderful uh agendas. well thought out and uh they take great notes and uh they put up with all of our >> and rain y'all >> all of our jokes and shenanigans.