e e e I hereby call to order the Roseville city council meeting for Monday October 21st 2024 Mr city manager would you call the role please council member St here council member Aton here council member schroer here council member gra here mayor Ro here uh and with us at the D we have our City attorney Rachel Tierney who is back from vacation and is ready to go on this uh heavy legal subject matter evening uh and then we also have city manager Pat truden on my left at the other end of the day and we'll introduce other uh staff and department heads and guests as uh various agenda items come forward I would remind folks if you've got a cell phone to uh silence it or otherwise assure that it doesn't disrupt the meeting uh this evening uh there is a copy of the meeting materials on the back table underneath the big clock by the back door if uh anyone from the public needs to access uh the various meeting materials it is a single copy for everyone to share but we do have uh extra copies of the agenda itself if folks need that for reference as well um and with that we'll ask folks to stand if you're able for the Pledge of Allegiance I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all next our agenda is approval of tonight's agenda and I'll check as always with Mr truden are there any changes from the staff perspective Mr Mayor there's no changes to the agenda tonight all right I'll check with the council then uh anyone on the council uh see a change that needs to be made or an item that council members might like remove from the consent agenda for separate consideration this evening all right and just a quick check we do have a few items on our consent agenda this evening uh which is section 10 items a through e these items are normally taken as a single motion towards the end of the meeting but if anybody is here for one of those items this evening wishes to speak or ask a question uh this would be the time to let us know and we can move though that item earlier into the uh meeting agenda so that you don't have to stay to the very end uh is there anyone from the public who's here on an item in section 10 of our agenda this evening the consent agenda does not appear to be the case uh with that then a motion to approve the agenda as presented would be in order so moved second it's been moved by council member John second by council member Aton to approve tonight's agenda as presented a discussion hearing none all those in favor signify by saying I opposed that passes unanimously we have our agenda for this evening uh next is our first opportunity for public comment uh we will have a chance in most cases for public comment on agenda items as they come up uh but we do also want to provide at the start of each meeting an opportunity for general public comment uh this would be for for items that are not on tonight's agenda but may be uh related to City business or of interest to people in the community uh so we'll check at this time is there anyone here to speak on uh the general public comment on non-agenda items this evening does not appear to be the case all right then we will move on with our agenda uh the first item under uh after public comment is recognitions and donations and we have one Proclamation this evening I'll read Proclamation uh and that a motion to approve would be in order from the council this is a proclamation related to Native American heritage month and it reads as follows whereas the City of Roseville is located on land obtained through a broken tree that was first home to Dakota and ajua people and where many can uh many of those folks continue to reside and whereas the City of Roseville recognizes that this treaty entitled non-native people to live and work on traditional Native lands and whereas despite centuries long an ongoing Erasure of indigenous people from American history uh and unjust Federal policies of assimilation and termination that ripped children from their families uh Native American people have persevered and whereas the indigenous people of this land upon which our country and city now stand have provided values and ideas and have become ingrained that have become an ingrained in American culture including respect for the natural environment and a rich cultural history and whereas the City of Roseville is committed to promoting equity and inclusion equality and justice as fundamental aspects of a safe and welcoming community and to undo the long-standing trauma and harm of unjust government practices and policies of assimilation and termination that have cost countless lives and displaced and broken up families and whereas the City of Roseville invites all members of the community to join the federal government in celebrating and acknowledging the 2024 National Native American Heritage Month and whereas this observance offers increased opportunity to better understand native American Heritage past and present contributions to our communities and to honor the many indigenous people who have sacrificed their lives and Customs for the growth of our nation now therefore be it resolved the City of Roseville hereby proclaims the month of November as Native American Heritage Month in the city so moved thank right it's moved by council member St seconded by council member gra uh any discussion on that motion to approve that Proclamation hearing none all those in favor signify by saying I opposed that passes unanimously and that Proclamation is approved that then brings us to our business items this evening we have uh three business items uh the first is uh uh for our consideration this evening after having seen this item on at on prior occasions uh this is uh looking to potentially adopt our green to go ordinance uh and we have no uh no bakan our uh sustainability specialist this evening with us I'm I'm working on these titles uh to help with uh the council getting back up to speed on this particular ordinance and where we are at this evening Miss Bach thank you mayor Ro council members um so we have discussed this quite a bit over the last couple of years I'm hoping to keep this presentation relatively short so we can move on through discussion but we're already 10 minutes ahead of time so we're already looking good you don't have to that's okay uh we'll do a quick review of our the history of this discussion at the city why we're looking at implementing an ordinance like this um talk through some of the goals that we're going to set for that should this get passed um and then talk through an implementation and enforcement timeline recommendations and then move on to questions and discussion from there so since I've been here I have been discussing this with our Public Works commission and with city council since 20122 I know there have been a few more informal conversations prior to that so the city's been considering their quite a while um between March 2022 and August 2023 I presented three times to the public works environment and Transportation Commission um they made a recommendation to council to consider this ordinance and I came back to Council in January 2024 of this year to talk about an engagement process which Council approved uh we spent four to five months doing community engagement with both residents and businesses in this in the city uh we had two surveys one for businesses one for residents we did did multiple mailings to businesses uh held two Community meetings and also did quite a bit of in-person Outreach as well in the summer um and then we brought back that discussion about that engagement process in August uh the reason why we're looking at this we're primarily looking to reduce the use of Styrofoam in Food Service use as well as any non-recyclable Plastics um there are multiple State plans now that are also in line with this including this the pollution control agency Solid Waste Management plan which is putting forth a goal of us reaching a 75% recycling rate by 2030 which is a short six years away um as well as the recently passed packaging cost and waste reduction act which will require all packaging in minnesot Minnesota to be recyclable or compostable by 2032 um additionally we know that recycling markets continue to change and shift and some things especially things like black plastic that we see a lot of food takeout containers is not currently accepted by our recycling haulers and not even plastic number five is actually not accepted many other places luckily here it is in Minnesota but we need to start adapting to be able to reduce waste for that reason too why we're looking at containers for food specifically there are a lot of issues within Solid Waste when it comes to plastic pollution a lot of different types of plastic are in the waste stream there's a lot of concerns about microplastics and a lot of unknowns yet about how that impacts human health um and there's also a lot of food waste that involved in the the food industry so both being able to reduce plastic in the industry and also find ways to put that food waste into compost and into a more useful um End Market is at the top of our priorities plastic production continues to increase um in food waste we waste about 30% of the food in total and 4 to 10% of that is wasted even before businesses get it to the consumer and so encouraging composting with food businesses in Roseville is also a key part of this um some of the benefits that we noted throughout this process is that Ramsey County Solid Waste fee tax is the highest or one of the highest in the state um our businesses are taxed 70% on solid waste so if they are able to divert things like Recycling and compost out of their trash they can they don't actually get tax on those items and so that could give them significant savings if they're able to reduce the sizes of their dumpsters food waste especially is a really heavy type of waste so they they can reduce a lot of that by diverting that to compost um it's also inefficient they're paying for those containers they're paying to get those containers delivered uh they're paying to dispose of the product they're paying a tax on that disposal so if we can move to more recyclable compostable options that should also save the money in the long run as well uh quick overview of the engagement we talked a little bit about this but we did Reach Out out to places like Hospitality Minnesota and quite a few professional organizations to try to spread the word among different businesses across the region um had those two inperson listening sessions um and we also had those online surveys uh goals of this ordinance should it get adopted um the first goal is to make sure that businesses are actually aware of the ordinance um second goal is to understand that they understand their supply options for what they need to make changes for as well as their disposal options for if they wanted to add a composting Organics disposal to their their waist stream um we also want to increase the residential recycling rate and recognize businesses that are already compliant and I will go into detail with these goals as well to make sure that businesses are aware of the ordinance i' plan to develop a onepage flyer that we can hand out to businesses and have that translated in several different languages including Spanish M Somali Ken Nepali um Minneapolis has taken this approach as well with their green too ordinance and I think that would go a long way to try to make sure that everybody can understand what we're proposing um we'd also include a mailing to businesses several times throughout the next year to let them know about what's going on what's expected of them um update the landing page on the city website so they there's an easy place for people to go to find information uh recommend holding two packaging fairs one in the spring one in the fall uh St Paul PA was planning on doing one this fall but they're pushing it forward to the spring so we would probably look into holding a joint packaging fair for both St Paul and Roseville businesses so kind of join forces with their enforcement staff too um I would also look into doing more significant in-person Outreach with businesses with a goal of meeting with between 10 and 15 businesses per month starting in February which should reach almost all of the businesses if not all of them within the course of a year I track those meetings with in an Excel database which we could use for mapping later on as well um introduce the ordinance side of rosille Business Council meetings so people have a chance to come and ask questions and learn about it and then also hold an online webinar that we would record and then later post so if someone isn't able to attend they can at least watch the webinar and contact me later as far as helping businesses to understand their supply options and there will be some repetition here um update that landing page that there those resources are available on the city website uh hold those two packaging fairs so businesses can connect with suppliers um and as well as do a lot of with that in-person Outreach let them know what their options are as well with things like Biz Recycling and financial and technical support and as far as disposal options same thing those packaging fairs would also include um a representative from bis Recycling and bis recycling does a lot of work to help analy ize huler bills help them find supplies there's Financial opportunities for businesses to offset their costs of a certain amount of packaging um and I have got a slide about that later too um and bring also bring that information out when we do that inperson Outreach I did start doing that actually already earlier this year when we were doing some inperson Outreach bringing that the actual Grant application for Biz recycling so that people could see what was required to apply so I'm hopeful that some businesses are already taking advantage of it uh next goal is to increase the residential recycling rate as I mentioned in our in-person Outreach with businesses um I was I really wanted to stress that this is a two-way street that we expect businesses to make this change but at the same time we also need to take responsibility to help educate residents on how to recycle properly so that when when businesses are investing in these more expensive supplies they're not just going right into the trash because that's just money that's being thrown away so we would like to increase education at community events um I have been doing some of this already but uh really putting a concerted focus on it the next year to focus on education for recycling and understanding the process um with the upcoming change to waste management in our new holler uh do some collaboration work with them so that we understand what materials they accept if there's any changes from our previous holler um make sure that we can get a tour of their material recovery facility so we can understand how their recycling process it works if it's any different from Eureka's um as well as host a recycling 101 webinar for residents just to both explain kind of the basics and also let people ask questions because every time I talk to someone there always there's always a lot of confusion about what about this what about that and so giving people an a chance to come and ask those questions and really kind of hear from experts I think would be really key um I'd also like to collaborate with Waste Management on getting residential tours of their material recovery facility because I think especially for myself when I got to see Eureka's facility it was really an aha moment to understand this is why this is not recyclable or this is why we separate these things out like this and so I'd like to give residents that opportunity to do a couple of Tours and see the new facility too same thing with Ramsey Washington Recycling and energy we have our uh recycling energy facility in Newport and that's another really great opportunity they love giving tours to Residents and other people um I'd love to get people down there to see that they also have the new organic sorting technology that's really cool to see in action so I'd love to be able to bring some residents down there to see that um promotion of our environmental service center that's going up on Kent Street there's a lot of new opportunities for education at that place and a lot of new ways that people can recycle so making sure everyone knows how to really take full advantage of that facility um and also promotion of the food SC scraps pickup program once once it eventually makes its way to Roseville and then we will utilize I'd like to utilize holler reports from Waste Management as well to hear how we're doing with our recycling rates and what kind of contaminants they're seeing and that sort of thing and that'll kind of depend on what they provide because that's still kind of yet to be seen so uh as we know there are some businesses that are already compliant with this proposed ordinance and so I'd like to make sure that we do a good job recognizing those businesses early on um and so between that tracking database that I would create for that Outreach um I'd like to develop a map so you'll see a picture this is St Louis Park's map from their zero waste ordinance initiative uh they've created a tracking map where residents can go and see which businesses are already compliant with green too and so if I'm already creating an Excel tracking database we can use that data to create an online map I've already confirmed with our GIS person that she's able to create this for me um I'd also like to recognize those businesses in late 2025 at a Roseville business council meeting just so that they're getting extra recognition that they went above and beyond early on uh as well as us our sustainable Steward program to provide additional recognition uh as mentioned there are are some resources available for businesses that will really be pushing throughout this process U Biz Recycling and wastewise is really the biggest program that's most important here it's offered through the Minnesota Chamber of Commerce we've talked about this a few times they offer grants for materials for extra bins for training for signage and all sorts of different things um couple other resources especially for people interested in reusable materials uh minimize is another program through the Chamber of Commerce and wastewise that focuses on really reducing single- use plastic and rethink disposable is another program through the Clean Water fund and the pollution control agency and their main focus is Shifting restaurants from using disposable materials for dining customers and moving to reusable wear and their representative is really excited to work with Roseville so I've been in touch with her already uh next steps I would recommend as I've been saying uh 12 month phase in for education and adaptation just to give the 170 plus businesses in Roseville a chance to adapt and understand what their options are uh we'd hold those packaging fairs throughout the 12 months observe there's any need for any material exemptions based on what's happening in the market or what people might be having issues um procuring early adopters receive a extra recognition uh then post 12 month phas in once we start actually proposing the uh enforcing the ordinance uh we would conduct annual site visits with restaurants to explain the ordinance check inventory and their onsite collection facilities as well so really much more of an educational versus a punitive approach um and then throughout we would just con connect as as much as we can with small businesses to make sure that they're aware of all the resources that are out there additional recommendations I would recommend creating a specific Greeno inbox for the City of Roseville so that all of those Communications can get funneled into one Central place I manage a lot of different types of programs at the city and so I want to make sure that those emails don't get kind of filtered out in any way or get missed um and that also creates a little bit easier things if there's staff transitions for who might manage what it's nice to have it in one place I know St Louis Park has actually moved to this same kind of communication as well um we are planning on having a summer intern in 2025 so we would definitely be using their support to help with Outreach and education uh the Minnesota the green Corps applications will open open up in early 2025 and I would plan to apply for one of those members to be a host site uh both for our green too implementation and for our climate action plan efforts and finally this is a little bit small I apologize about this but it's kind of a a draft timeline of what we're looking at so anything in red is an event so those um packaging fairs webinars and then we'll we'll have a few mailings go out throughout the year and then that um door to-door visits with restaurants throughout so all right any questions or thoughts all right well thank you for that uh we appreciate the update and all especially the information about sort of the that that next year before we get into the sort of the enforcement phase uh I just wanted to comment one thing that came to mind as you were talking about sort of the database of of restaurants and sort of those early adapters is to uh think about partnering with visit Roseville also so that I can get onto their information about restaurants because I think people that are looking for a place to eat in Roseville might appreciate knowing that uh that the place they might be choosing is or is not a early adopter in that area and with that I'll open it up to questions from the council council member St I just have a quick question about the um compostable materials will those be compostable at home that's a really great question and some of them might be and some of them might not be and that's going to be kind of part of our educational Outreach that would really we have to bring different materials to show people so there's things like compostable Plastics that you'll see especially with silverware kind of those like creamy white color Plastics that's really not something that's going to break down in your home compost um anything like anything plastic like is really going to have to be something that we'll have to go into our drop side on Dale Street and for a previous newsletter I created a little Vin diagram that actually kind of shows what can go on our drop site what can go in your home compost what can go in both cuz there's a lot of differences between the two and so I think refining that and distributing that pretty widely is going to be of an important part of this process do you anticipate any of those going to be able to added to the food scraps pickup program yeah when that happens would those type of items be able to be added to yeah because the food scraps pickup program is all going to a commercial industrial Compost Facility so that that's much higher heat processing so it'll break down those materials much better than your backyard compost would okay thanks so yeah great other questions uh it's number gra I don't know if that was your hand going up you reaching for your glasses okay um not so much a question as I really appreciate the approach of um education rather than penalties because that that's the way I think makes sense to do this and I liked all the uh I like the the fair side of it because I know you bring specific examples to those things and it really helps people to see like oh so that covered to the cup you know is different than that part so yeah and we even had at our um our community meetings we had a few packaging reps at those as well and some of the restaurants had a chance to connect with them there and I I have actually been seeing even shifts in some of those restaurants that attended those fairs I've seen changes in their materials just in the last couple of months which is exciting to see um but yeah that we would we're not the experts the packaging folks are the experts and so we'll definitely have as many different people there as possible thanks any other questions uh council member Sher um yes thank you for working on this I know it's been a um a long process but I like because it's been thought out and there's been multiple conversations around different parts and I really think that important part is that you're going to be doing those visits to the um restaurants um I think that some some of the businesses are so busy and you know to show up for webinars or some of these things can be can be a challenge that you're actually going to go in and talk them one onone I think is really going to be key here because we want to make sure people understand you know not just why but you know how we can help in in making this you know successful for everyone so that I think is really key and I really I really appreciate some of the one-on-one conversations I've already had to be able to understand what are these restaurants seeing what are some of the challenges they're already dealing with between either their hauling situation if they're renting a space or what materials are available to them so it's I'm I'm really looking forward to that part of the process great um just a very technical matter uh on the ordinance itself I did note in talking with staff that there was uh some slightly confusing wording under section two of the ordinance on the very last page at the top and this is the effective date uh and so I believe uh We've incorporated into the actual uh languages added up there no it's probably not that one but anyway new language that is a little just a little more quick and clear which simply says upon its passage and publication this ordinance shall take effect on Fe excuse me January 1st 2025 with the exception of section 41 12.05 which shall take effect on January 1st 2026 I think there was a lot of extra wheels and shells that somehow through the drafting process found their way in there and so that was just just to clarify that that's a little clearer way of stating it and doesn't affect the rest of the content I would defer to uh our City attorney uh Rachel to kind of help us figure out the correct way to word that so our city manager and I kind of worked it out ahead of time okay and Mr Mayor the uh the uh one that's for your signature if you do pass it tonight has the correct word in right that's what I was figuring I just wanted to point that out to folks because maybe nobody else had seen or heard about that council member schorer yeah just and now that we're in the ordinance I just have a small question on um section g it talks about arrange for um The Collection by a licensed s a solid waste collector are we as uh inferring that it has to be licensed in Roseville or just licensed anywhere that's a really good question um these are commercial haulers so it's can be different than our residential huler situation so I believe it would just be anyone who is just licensed properly um and we can I can double check back on that if needed thank you right council member strong um yeah I wanted to check in on the timeline just because you say you're not able to start until February in the the site visits and with 170 businesses in 11 months if you were really ready on February 1st that's 50 15.4 businesses per month um and if you're looking at 10 to 15 per month just wondering on the reath in a buness if it's if it's something that should go into effect sooner but with uh enforcement starting in uh January 1st of 26 just so that there's more reasonable amount of time for it to happen or just making sure that bandwidth wise there's that opportunity um that's a great question and I think I created that timeline with the idea that we would roll it out kind of January 1 so we would prep spend the next couple of months preparing that flyer the mailing materials those mailings would go out in January and we would give restaurants a chance to un to businesses a chance to digest that then we would begin stopping by and arranging those visits after that fact um we can also accelerate that 10 to 15 businesses per month time frame during summer when we have an extra intern as well um I know our parks department also has an Amore member too that's expressed interest in sustainability work and depending on his bandwidth we may may be able to Le leverage some support from him as well throughout the year depending on what he has going on but between myself and our intern support I I'm confident we can get through that and then with if we are able to secure a green Corp member for 2026 that'll also really help that process and just as an aside I've visited three of the new businesses in Roseville in the last two weeks I think and all three of them had were initially started elsewhere and so all three of them were were really far in their process already of adopting the green to go so maybe you will be pleasantly surprised that some of the folks at least those who have um are part of more of a chain might have things happening across their system because they've already had to adapt in other cities yeah yeah and I know some chains actually required an ordinance to be in place before they would actually release those compostable materials so that they locations in Roseville too so um there will be it'll it'll be a transition thanks right are there any other questions from council members do want to provide an opportunity for public comment if there's anyone in the public who wishes to speak and support our opposition to our adoption of the green to go ordinance as it's been outlined or or has any suggestions for changes or improvements this would be the opportunity to speak is there anyone here who wishes to speak to this ordinance this evening all right with that we'll close the opportunity for public comment and move to council consideration council member Aton here I'd like to move the ordinance as presented in the packet including the change language uh on that last section starting on line 148 second right it's been moved by council member Aton seconded by council member Scher uh discussion on the motion as the maker of the motion I didn't have any questions before we changed an email earlier today so I I would like to compliment you on the very thorough excellent work not only what you've already done but your plans for the uh coming months and couple years um uh you you are an excellent employee and your team has done a fantastic job moving this forward I brought this forward in 2019 and want to retire in two months and I'm super pleased this is this is happening here I appreciate your work well thank you so much yeah I think there were two things you were looking to do before the end of your time was was this and getting a raise for councilman especially for the mayor as the secret of the motion council member shter no and and again we've had multiple conversations you know too and and I've been supportive of this and I'm just really pleased as well that we could get to a point where we're finally going to do it well I I just want I appreciate all the really great discussions we've had over the years and it's been very helpful for me to kind of formulate this plan as well so it's a two-way street and I appreciate all the all the conversations we've had great other discussion on the motion and I'll just Echo the appreciation that's been expressed and I'll include in that uh some of the early adopter cities who gave us an example to follow uh both as what to do and perhaps as what to not do uh we always appreciate our our daring uh and fearless uh fellow cities in that regard because I think it helps everyone do better uh with that we've got the motion before us to adopt the green too ordinance as presented with the change on the effective date language all those in favor signify by saying I I opposed that passes unanimously that ordinance is adopted and I think we do have a summary yes we do is there a motion related to publishing a summary second right been moved by council member gra second by council member St uh any discussion on that motion once again this is to allow publication of a summary this does require a 2/3 vote which in our case is 4 fifths uh all those in favor of approving the publication of a sum signify by saying I I opposed that passes unanimously me meeting the 2/3 requirement thank you again miss bachan thank you very much appreciate it all right Switching gears but still in the realm of ordinances although not for adoption this evening we have uh a different topic and this is in relation to uh the changes that have been made at the legislature over the last couple of years with respect to cannabis uh in Minnesota and how cities need to adapt our regulations to those changes uh and we've had some discussions on that earlier this year uh and this is our next touch on this with some draft ordinance language that's being brought forward uh so without me going into the whole presentation I'll turn it over to Janice gunlock our community development director uh to kick off the conversation here no doubt ay supported by our City attorney uh Miss Tyne I was just going to say thanks mayor members of the council um myself and the City attorney are take some turns going through some slides here quickly um just to reiterate everything in these slides is in your packet we just thought it would help organize the discussion a little bit better we also have a slide with some questions that have come up over the weekend since the packet went out so the full Council can get an idea of what the other questions are um really quickly just a little bit of background information for those who maybe are just coming in at the on this discussion um chapter 342 of Minnesota statutes was adopted by the legislature in 2023 they amended again this last session um it relates to the adult ed cannabis law the city enacted a moratorium on July 8th of this year related to adult use cannabis businesses this was an anticipation of potentially early license issuance happening although if you've been hearing in the news I don't think any of that's really happened but we do have a moratorium in place right now um the uh Minnesota office of cannabis management will refer to them as ocm released model ordinances in July of this year as well the actual legalization takes effect on January 1st that's when our moratorium expires um to date we've had three meetings two with the Planning Commission one with the city council related to uh the adult use cannabis regulations locally um those three meetings have informed the draft ordinances that are provided in your packets this evening and what we're asking for feedback on um the three ordinances uh each address a different topic one relates to the zoning aspect of this legalization the other is registration of certain businesses and then the last one is related to Temporary cannabis events I believe this slide our City attorney is going to handle so this first slide here is talking about the portion of your ordinance that um regulates the registration of businesses and the zoning certifications if you recall that part of the conversation um and um I won't I won't bore you with all walking through the entire ordinance it's it's before you but there are a few choices um for you to make um and one was the source of a question that uh mayor Ro sent today about um the cap on registration when we met um whenever that was like a month ago to discuss this um the council had indicated that they did want a cap on registrations and maybe one point of clarity that I should have covered better was that there are actually two ways to impose a cap on registration and you can choose either or both so the first way is to put a cap on registration as one per every 12,500 residents in the City of Roseville so for Roseville that gets you a three but you can also put a cap on registration that is actually governed by how many licenses have been issued in the county and so in this case it would be if Ramsey County had one per 12,500 residents without any of those being in Roseville Roseville could actually have zero so you can use that County cap as your cap many cities are choosing to actually use both of these caps that's how the draft is but you can choose one the other both neither your own number however you want to do it but those those it's a little odd that we're calling it a cap cuz it's actually kind of a floor for how many you have to allow you you can allow more than that number in kind of any configuration you could come up with just to clarify though I think it can be used by cities as a cap yes even though you talk about it it's sort of a floor because we could allow more you could you just can't allow you can't have any fewer than that yes you cannot have fewer than that but you may have more than that and you can have no cap at all so okay thank you for clarifying [Music] that um the the drafted rate so you will see that there's there is um we talked about the pre-licensed certification of cannabis business if actually added a little Clarity to that section based on some conversations that we had with staff um the pre-license certification as described in the statute indicates it's a it's a a zoning certification but then it's also for um for building and fire code um it's pretty likely that at the time of this zoning certification the the business won't be built out it won't be ready to go so the idea of doing a fire and building code inspection for some businesses will be able to happen but for others that will have to wait until later and so we've just added that Clarity to this section that there will be businesses that will not be able to be certified for purposes of Fire and Building Code at the time that this pre-licensed certification happens um the next section 38.0495 is the section that sets the cap on registration and it offers some detail about how that counting will happen um and and how that will all work and how you'll know how many it is again there's there's not a lot of guidance for us at at the state but there's an assumption that most cities that that the the 12,500 number how will you know will come from the state demographer about how many how large the population of Roseville is um now there is a choice for you to make here down in section B of that of that 31804 05 pardon me and that is um there are a few different um choice to make about what you will include or not include in that cap so there are two kinds of licenses related to Li licensing um related to Native American tribes and um there are two different kinds of Native American licenses that may happen one is uh is issued by a tribe for operation on tribal controlled property it really unlikely that's going to happen in Roseville um but it could potentially happen in Ramsey County depending on any number of factors um the more likely issue would be that either Ramsey County or even the City of Roseville could be impacted by a compact that the state enters into with a tribe which is it appears going to allow um tribal oper a tribal entity to operate off tribal property and so they're could be a license that's issued related to a tribe that isn't on tribal property if there is one of those in Ramsey County or in the City of Roseville you can choose to have that license be included in your cap of three or you can choose to make that an exception to your cap and have that business operate um in Roseville and not have the cap apply I know that's very complicated but it the question is whether or not you want to include those kinds in the cap of three or allow those to operate independent of the cap and then there are two kinds of licenses lower potency hemp retailers mechanical combination businesses those are simply not um included in the retail cap so the really only choice here to make is whether you want to include those tribal licenses if they are issued as taking up one of those cap business one of those potential Li potential registrations I'm struggling for the right way to describe this um one of those potential registrations or not I have a question about that so if we don't include it with that say then they can have as many of these in Roseville is so if we don't include it basically there's no number saying all this so just hypothetically they could have 20 in Roseville that wouldn't go towards the cap or how how I mean if we don't include it is there you know we can't cap that council member schroer I wish I could explain better what this compact Arrangement is going to look like I I simply don't know I spent a fair amount of time today based on council member Eden's question trying to figure out um whether there's guidance on it and I wasn't able to to understand what the tribal cont might mean um what I will say is if you choose to include it in the cap because we don't understand that is something you could always change your mind on later it's it's much harder to go the other way okay um than it is to use that as part of your cap at this point and decide later that you'd like to lift it and just to be clear to included in the cap we would not have an exception for it correct Okay so a inverse thinking there now you know why I'm having trouble yeah it is yeah Council strong um are the troply issued licenses given priority in that cap my understanding is well if the license is issued by the tribe the tribe is a sovereign Authority that is a license issued by the tribe and governed by the tribe so that that is entirely separate within the compact I'm not sure it appears from the from the language of the regulation and some of the other materials that the state that the state will actually issue the licenses as part of those compacts but that's not perfectly clear all right just like M Food For Thought food for thought all right um okay so then 38.0 7 um is oh and just also 38.0 7 just talks about what the application for registration would require um the fees that would need to be paid um and we do we did put language in there um which is part of the recommendations in the ocm um model ordinance just to indicate how are you going to choose who you're going to give license to what what I've recommended and what frankly I think what's easiest for everyone is a simple first come first serve maybe someone will think of a creative idea aidea um in the future that we could steal from but at this point that feels like the best way to go in my mind but if you have any creative ideas we can certainly um figure out how another option um 38.0 n outlines the various basis for denial um these are straight out of the the um the state statute there's a within this ordinance there are some redund redundancies with the state statute I I generally don't like to put redundancies in ordinances but sometimes it's helpful just to provide that guidance to your staff and to anyone who comes to apply so when you hear me say this is just echoing state law that's mainly the reason for that you could take it out and then we could just defer to state law because you're you're bound by it anyway um let's see is issuance of registration or renewal um if they are eligible you will issue the registration um registrations are non-transferable either from person to person entity to entity or place to place um enforcement I think we talked about enforcement um being a fine or a suspension it doesn't appear from the statute that you would have the authority independently to revoke um if you do impose a fine or suspension you would still give notice and right to hearing that old do process and notice an opportunity to be heard we build that into these um in an emergency if there is an emergency situation at the discretion of the city which means that the business poses an imminent threat to the health or safety of the public the city can immediately suspend you also have to immediately notify the Office of cannabich Management who they will give expedited attention to um if the ocm says you have to Res you have to um reinstate you have to reinstate um and then mayor did you want to wait on on your question until later um this is since we're here we could probably just at least introduce the topic so the only thing that came to mind as I was reading this section about enforcement was there could be a scenario where the ocm revokes a license a license and we've got a registration in effect and just to let avoid any misunderstanding we may want to say that if a license is revoked by the ocm the registration you know is revoked needs to be reapplied for or something like that you know automatically I'm not sure we need a due process in that situation for our action on a registration um but that's my suggestion is we think about a way to to incorporate that because even though it seems fairly unlikely that if they've got a revoked license they could somehow use our registration to continue to do business it probably just from the point of view of keeping things straight makes sense for us to track with the state's action in regard to a license so that was my my suggestion there uh and we the attorney and I had some thoughts as to how that could be incorporated and since we're not adopting this evening I think we can just have the conversation as to whether it makes sense to to incorporate something like that at the appropriate time um did you want to I don't want to steam forward if the council wanted to discuss I think we're good going to kind of go through this and then come back for discussion if that's right um and again all enforcement actions get reported to the ocm um there are penalties a misdemeanor violation um administrative fine and um also enforcement of this chapter can happen through licenses held by that business that are issued by the city so while the city will not have the authority to revoke a license issued by the state uh the CATE could still take action against a license held by the business that also held the registration a City License held by the business correct okay um so we do have some retailer operations um first is compliance check um again this city is required by state law to do one per year you could do more um as we discussed La when we discussed this last we've added the hours of operations um we came as close as we could to the off sale liquor hours and so that's reflected in the ordinance um we require display of the license and registration and then also indicate that they're subject to the um City Sign code and again that's something that's permitted by state law but if it isn't in here there'd be an open question as to whether it applied so that's why it's included um lower potency hemp it's going to look a lot like the Cannabis ordinance again compliance check minimum of once per year um must and requires display and then advertising and based on our conversation last time we did not include an hour's requirement in the lower potency hemp regulation and I think we got to everything all right event oh we have a new SL for that oh sorry more more opportunities so uh this is the first of the three ordinances we're looking at uh does the council want to take up each ordinance and have discussion about each one in turn or do we want to do the presentation of about each one and then go back to have conversations about them do one at a time one at a time all right so we have the the registration I should looked this way too but I'm hearing agreement from both both sides of me here so as to the uh registration ordinance um thoughts from the council or questions certainly for our attorney uh or Miss gunlock I think the first you know question to talk about maybe is that notion of whether we we put a for lack of better word a super cap on our cap by using the county um number um you know and just my initial thought on it is is kind of twofold I'm not sure the County May ever get to their cap right countywide but you never know there could be 40 in in St Paul or something like that and my second thought is I'm not really sure that we should be artificially capping our numbers based on that to say that say if the county gets to its number we aren't going to have any if nobody's gotten one yet uh that seems kind of unfair to our business Community from my point of view but I'd open it up to other thoughts from Council Members council member Scher yeah I I think my thoughts are the more we can control within the city and not give it to the county to figure out I think that makes sense that we'd want to keep um keep it here so yeah I agree with what you said mayor on that piece of it that um you know if we especially if we're looking at our population we're talking about three you know and and so I would I would agree with that and then of course I know you haven't quite gotten it but I would also think we'd want to include that um and not exclude the the tribal U registrations as well in that and just exactly what the um attorney was talking about it is much easier to take it out later this thing is so um not defined and I think I think we lock it down more than less and then and then go the other way because you know I think it's going to continually evolve and and on once it's out of the you know they say this you know Genie's out of the bottle or whatever you can't put it back in so I I I would support that as well and just to be clear you're saying uh you support uh not providing exemption to the cap those don't put exemptions to the exemptions so yes Mr Mayor could I could I just make sure we're all understanding what that Ramsey County uh or the county cap is so uh that is an and so it's we limited to three and if the county has the amount of caps the amount of licenses that are equal to the cap of 12,500 which is 44 45 in the whole County then we don't need to issue any more licenses so if we have two in business and the third one comes but the count is at capacity we're not required then to issue another one right so it works in conjunction not separately well I think I understood that but I think the point being is that if the county gets filled up and we don't have any in Roseville why would we say we wouldn't allow up to our three in Roseville that's my only point with that um so I would say just to push back a little on that the one only reason I see is if everything's lined up on our border in St Paul and we have 30 of them maybe we don't want a third in Roseville it's possible um but once again yeah I think the point being is that we that it looks at the whole County corre regardless of where they are in the county so so unlikely to happen so they could all be lined up on larpenter Avenue or Rice Street I suppose but not knowing that I don't know you know three three is already a limit yeah and and it would just be one one like you said one more it wouldn't be if there are already 30 there one more if if Ramsey County just snap is up to 44 45 and we haven't issued any registrations the way we've got it worded we couldn't issue any even even any of our three so that's where it just seems to me maybe we're we're pushing a little too far but that's just me and this is for the council to decide so I thought it could be either way I thought it could be well like uh C manager Tron said it's an and so if we haven't issued all of our three yet I see and the county is above their total then then that's what we're limited to whatever we've issued uh thoughts from other council members on either or any of these items council member I'm okay with us having our own cap and not worrying about the county per se and I too would remove the exemptions on line 13 lines 137 through 140 for the tribal businesses that could be included Ed in our cap rather than being separate thoughts on any of those points council member strong I I'm agreeing that um the city cap of three gives us a little bit more control than um and allows us to know kind of where we're at and um I agree with the exemption to the exemption I think again it provides us an opportunity to it's always easier to make changes later on if we find that things are different than we expect but it's good to come out of the gate with a little bit more understanding um I do approve of the establishment of the hours as indicated and I think it makes good sense to have that Echo our offsale um alcohol sales um other thoughts I'm trying to think if there were other items that were brought up that were discussion points well certainly the the discussion about whether we automatically revoke if the license has been revoked by the state I mean it seems kind of administratively appropriate doesn't seem to be any objection to that challenge will be how we word that but uh that's we've got folks for that uh council member strong um I'm not sure we haven't addressed this yet this evening is the buffer requirements I don't know is that another slide miss tyy the buffer requirements council member St the buffer requirements are not included in this draft because at the when we met with the when the council met last there was a decision that I understood that there was desire not to impose buffers we could of course add that back in but that's why they're not in here okay I had a opportunity to speak with a a business that is adjacent to a daycare and um they were concerned about the empty store front between them and the daycare potentially being um available um and so I think I would be open and I know that I believe council member Ed and I were both in support of considering um some type of buffer zone I think between a daycare center a residential treatment facility I actually thought that all of the buffers as indicated as optional or something that uh could be advantageous we noted that um most of our schools are not going to be in that position um but that doesn't necessarily take into account a charter school that might be in a non-traditional location um and I think for me it's more about uh obviously on-site consumption is not allowed but U parking lot consumption in a liquor store is really common uh just looking the parking lot and so um odor and um and uh consumption around the vicinity so I'd be in support of um maintaining the buffer zones on the school the daycare the residential facility and the parks um and I'm open to discussion on uh buffer between that and other uh cannabis businesses thoughts on the buffers Council yeah and I believe I I supported that as well last time we talked so I would I would definitely Ely support those um you know all the locations you talked about um I think makes sense because I'm sure you've seen the um a couple of people just talking about the odor just from a plant being grown let alone if you light it up and so if you're next to a daycare or school or treatment center and you're in the parking lot and you're doing that yeah I think you know it's amazing how far that travels so I I would be in support of buffer zone what are the state laws about public consumption within distances of those types of um places seems to me there was something in the state law about something to do with with that if I remember right mayor r i I don't recall seeing that I I cannot swear it's not there but that's not a regulation that I recall what I do recall is that cities May regulate public consumption um and so perhaps that's what you're thinking of well I thought there was something in state law though specific to schools it comes to mind if not other in other types of places so you may have to do a little more research on that but I could have sworn there was something in that regard I'm of course not going to find where it is I thought there's something about that you could do it and they had certain uh footage or something so somewhere cuz I cuz I was thinking that we were sort of deferring on the consumption side of things to the state law but I think we're going to have to do some checking on that to be sure I guess I would be I would be concerned about putting in these buffers um if consumption is already regulated in those locations and I just don't know for sure at this point that we know the answer to that um but that's that's my thought on that other thoughts Council Ron I would love to not that if there if that rule is there even if it was maybe a common wall um buffer thinking about the odors that um certainly again we have someone with something in their yard that several neighbors are complaining about so um so I I would look at that I think our discussion last time really came around to where do you draw that line how many places are really dealing with this what how much control are we going to do over the over the market right so I would not if there's open consumption want a marijuana business next door to a child care center that I think that makes sense I think that makes sense so however we would uh tackle that I would be open to that I don't not ready for 500 Foot rules around everything so yeah I think it was more of you I think we need to look at it I don't I don't think I have the answer how much or was that look like but I do think we need to figure out a way to do that yeah that makes sense there thoughts on uh buffers as a topic I know we talked a fair amount about this at the last and if I remember right sort of our conclusion was that we didn't feel that because we were limiting the number to three that the buffers really entered into it be very rare I you know being that the topic has been raised again I guess I'd like the clarification on state law regarding consumption or what regulation there is on the consumption within certain distances and then you know um figuring out if we how we would handle buffers in in in the case of if we want to put them in because it doesn't look like state law is adequately addressing it other thoughts they do have um in in the um ordinance the model ordinance they're talking about um buffer requirements under section three but you just may do it and they have um right but that's talking about what cities may do right that's at least it gives us an idea because we're talking about 0 to 500 ft or whatever so it kind of gives a parameter around that maybe we want to look at well anyway Let's uh we're going to have to follow up on that I think just to have an understanding of where we're at actually mayor good good spot council member schroer it I'm looking at the um if you I think you have it in your materials um page seven of it says consumption is only allowed on private property or licensed businesses with an on-site consumption endorsement consumption is not allowed in public right ah what I was trying to remember too an on-site consumption endorsement is that part of our registration process or is that part of the State Licensing process it is part of the State Licensing process but what's a little deceiving here is the there is not a place where there is not a state license that would allow on-site consumption of smoked cannabis it's only edible or it's Edibles drinkables that kind of thing but not there's no you can't smoke there's no smoking other other than at cannabis events right which we address in our other ordinance right so is that saying that there is there is no consumption allowed in public under the state law I'm just trying to remember what you said there in terms of that I am looking at the I am looking at what the what has been published by ocm um I'm not looking at the statute I tried to search that quick in too many words are repeated I can't I can't narrow it down quick enough but what the where in the model ordinance is that I'm actually looking at the the manual itself look at page got it that might be the piece that I didn't print out of course would you like my printed packet man that's all right oh I have my own book pretty letters over here it's in there okay so where is that now specifically on this page seven if you look at this page it says for individuals and then it says consumption only allowed on private property or at licensed businesses with onset consumption endorsements consumption is not allowed in public consumption is not allowed in public okay is alcohol consumption allowed in public yes I believe so yes we've had a discussion before with our other exemptions of driving in our Parks um so is how is private property defined here is it is it individual residence type property or is it because I mean a business is considered private property mayor what I'd like to ask is that because this is in their manual and I'm not looking at the statute I don't want to guess right and so I will come back to you with an actual answer of what I think all of this means I just want to point that out to you because it appears that that's what the statute is going to say but without the language in front of me I I'm not comfortable offering up a guess Y no and that's why we I think it made sense to bring it back for for more discussion with more information so I know we even had some discussion about consumption as it related to our ordinance about consumption of lots of things in our Parks uh and so we had information that was timely and fresh at that time that we don't have at the tips of our brains right now uh council member Aton actually what I was going to ask about as you look at this we we created a Zone in our Parks as well as on our City Campus and a few other facilities that did not allow smoking does if that because I feel like this was a change that happened in the 2024 session does this supersede that in the sense that it actually is going to be more expansive than what we passed with regard to cannabis with regards to public uh use of cannabis I imagine that the attorney's response may be maybe let me look it up that's exactly the attorney's response I know that we made changes regarding public um cons smoking in public and that that was that was to apply to both tobacco and to cannabis and so that's what's giving me a lot of pause about what I'm reading here because it doesn't my memory is not matching up so I will I will get back to you on this point yep great all right all right there was one other thing now I've got to find my page here just a question this very very technical ordinance construction question I want to ruin trains of thought here I'm looking at three 18.06 of our ordinance proposed under processing registration and it says the date of this the last sentence starting on line 154 uh the date of a certification under 38.0 3 which is the essentially the zoning certification is issued will have no impact on the applica applicants registration processing and is not an indication that the cap on registrations I think that should say has been met because we're saying that a certification doesn't create a registration um so I think it's it's it's saying is not an indication that the cap and registrations has been met but I wanted to ask the question because I wanted to be sure that we were all on the same page with what we were trying to say there and how we were saying it that may be in Artful Drafting and maybe the fact that it's giving us this much pause means I should take another crack at that um the intent of the language is what we don't want to do is have someone come and say but you gave me zoning certification how can you tell me there are no registrations available exactly so exactly that's clearly a poorly drafted sentence give me another shot you get another shot we'll even give you to if needed I feel like the intent of the sentence is kind of the same whether it has a word not in it or not right but but but it needs be clear without it yeah I agree okay that's all I had on this one is there anything else on the uh registration ordinance that we may not have covered that people had the flagged in their notes or anywhere doesn't appear to be the case all right then I believe so just to clarify so we I think we've we've as a council said we don't want to put in the Ramsay County uh limit with the and on our cap uh we are not doing the exemptions for the tribal type uh and compact tribal tribal compact type uh exemptions to our cap um we're checking on that 3806 language we're checking on how we want to talk about State revocations and we to to be determined on buffers pending more information and research on various points uh council member St um did we discuss the signage as indicated and what the Ros sign code would be that would per be permitted in this situation uh I think it's the same signs that any other retail establishment can have under code we just wanted to make sure that we were clear that as I understood it from the attorney that the code applies that's correct I will say that there are some state regulations um on on signage as well those would apply under state law but the city's code will lay on top of those as well all right so what's next zoning or events looks like events it's events all right which is still I believe mystery it is I was trying to give you a break I know I um okay so temporary events just for a little context um a lot of cities have an event ordinance that regulates special events in their Parks sometimes special events everywhere every City's a little bit different but since Roseville doesn't have one um this is a lot more robust than what a lot of other cities are doing a lot of other cities are just slipping canabus events into their event ordinance but what we've done here G is given you a stand alone and that's why um if I may just clarify ahead of the start we do have a an event policy and a process for events primarily related to I think Amplified sound um so I'm guessing that that Echoes those parts of that in here if not more strict and you can you can highlight those when we get to them I just was not really no they weren't cross referenced at all okay that's fine I just wanted to check and and I will say that I I I strongly advise you to get this in ordinance and not policy just because of we've got the state law that and in you know in order to although the state is giving cities in my opinion quite a bit more authority over regulating events than it's giving you over regulating Standalone businesses I still would highly recommend they be in ordinance I don't think anybody's questioning that okay just check all right um Okay so we've defined some um some different terms we don't necessarily need to go into that but the first kind of point of conversation here is I've defined Park feature residential treatment facility and school um you only need those definitions if you want to regulate the locations of special events as they relate to those uses so I think we had a discussion about whether you would allow events in Parks um or whether you would allow them near Parks so this is kind of teeing up that conversation for you those terms are included they don't need to be included if we're not going to um use them for anything um we do Define special services essentially what what the city's role in these events is going to be um is pretty minor the state law is fairly robust with regard to its requirements of these events it requires on-site licens security and in fact I noticed today that um the security Personnel are prohibited from using canabus or low potency hemp for 24 hours before the event um I I didn't realize that was there I thought it was kind of interesting um it does the state law gives you a little regulation of fees it regulat Ates um where you have to in your application for the special event you have to explain where consumption would be allowed if you decide to allow consumption um uh where how you're going to get rid of how you're going to dispose of particular cannabis waste pretty robust regulations so what the majority of this ordinance is for is to kind of make some regulatory choices but also if you were to get a really big event and you were to need extra Police Services to block a street or or or what have you this allows the city to recover those costs from the event itself that's a lot of what you're going to see here is for that purpose and it also allows you to deny an event if it's happening at a time that the city's resources will be stretched so right around your uh your yeah right around rosefest you probably don't want a giant cannabis event coming to town cuz that would overly tax your resources this gives you the ability to use that as a basis for denial um okay so you require a permit for your temporary cannabis event um outlining the permit application again um the main purpose of this is to get the information from them um to allow you kind of to be able to get in touch with them but there also going to give you a copy of the state application and like I said the state application is very robust and that will give you the information that you need about the layout and what kinds of vendors they're going to have and if you allow consumption where that consumption will happen what is their security plan all of that is contained in the state application um I have required in this that you would have an application file filed at least 30 days in advance of the event um some cities don't require any notice at all some cities would require significantly more 30 days is is a ballpark you could decide to go longer or shorter that's really just just again to tea up the conversation um permit application review again the main review for the city is going to be determining whether special services are required um you may be in a situation where an applicant doesn't ask for special services but once you review the application you decide that special services are necessary this is allows you to say no actually you do need to block off that street no actually we do need extra squads on site um so this gives you the authority to do that um gives you the authority to deny for for several reasons um these are lifted straight out of ordinances from other cities for bases that they use for denial um you know you could add to this or take away from it as you see fit um fees for special services again this is how you're going to recover the cost that the city ends up spending in order to support the event um generally you would set the rates in your in your fee ordinance so you would say this is how much we charge for police services this is how much we charge to block the street whatever it is you would put those in your annual fee ordinance so that those charges would be transparent um you could um choose instead of publishing it to just choose your actual costs I'd encourage you not to do that I'd encourage you to get those published they just when you're charging actual costs you're more vulnerable to a challenge or you're just trying to raise money um it looks more transparent to say oh those are the fees they're right there in black and white and I can see what they are but you can definitely do it either way um I do I included a requirement that the event organiz or indemnify the city and purchase liability insurance um and then again if on-site consumptions prohibited you would want that to be a specific provision in the insurance policy to make sure that the insurance company's aware that the invent there covering allows on-site consumption um I did provide an ability for the city to wave the insurance you wouldn't have to include that provision a lot of cities do you wouldn't have to particularly for cannabis Events maybe it's not as good a fit for cannabis events as it is for other kinds of events um so then we have the um cannabis event regulations um the draft just has that you would prohibit cannabis events on city-owned property again you can choose to do that or choose not to do it um I did put a buffer in here just as kind of a placeholder again totally a choice and then if there's other location restrictions for example whether you'd want to prohibit cannabis events from occurring you know a budding residential property or or you know whatever whatever other requirements you would you would want to put in place um you can have an hour's restriction if you choose um again you should say in this ordinance whether or not you'll allow on-site consumption even if you choose to allow it I would put that in black and white as well um I did prohibit overnight sleeping um and honestly I thought that I read that in state law but now I'm doubting my memory again um but you could prohibit um people from staying overnight um reg an explicit regulation of noise so that it's clear that they are required to follow your noise ordinance and then if it they did violate the noise ordinance that would give you a basis to shut the event down at that point as well um and then of course we require that they follow all of state law the enforcement's going to look pretty familiar uh misdemeanor administrative fine and um grounds for revocation of the permit so the questions for you um are whether you would like buffers um whether 30 days is a sufficient notice too much too little um on-site consumption and then hours of operation um also if if you do want to require a fee deposit for special services that might be something we should discuss although I think that could probably be left to staff discretion um I I think that's probably enough of a of a enough of a of a uh variable situation that that allowing staff discretion on that one is probably pretty defensible all right thoughts on any of those uh options we have and I think probably it's potentially possible that um some some things may follow from whether or not we allow consumption at events so that might be one of the big questions to maybe address uh first and then we can go from there uh council member schroer just to clarify the consumption would we possibly break this into two between smoking and consumption of Ables and drinks cuz I'm thinking you might have you know where you have the um drinks that have you know the product in it or the Edibles where there you know there's not that smell versus if you're going to allow smoking of the product so you know can you divide that into two separate events or can you is it I'm not sure how would we address that council member Schroeder um I don't see why you couldn't um you know the the state right the state law talks in terms of on-site consumption versus not on-site consumption it doesn't split those two but I think that certainly makes sense and as I think I said the legislation at this point appears to give the city pretty broad authority over regulating these events so I think you could certainly say well we'll allow consumption of Edibles and beverages but not um no smoking smoking or vaping probably right yeah and then one more question on that when you talk about the deposit are we thinking like coming up with 100% of the cost as the deposit or would the deposit be part of it so I guess that's I was a little um um unsure what that meant by when we say uh special service fee deposit you know this is this is one of the one of the challenges of you not having an ordinance right now is a lot of cities will require a deposit and depending on how big the they expect the fee to be the deposit will change if it's going to be a huge fee they'll take 50% if it you know so it really is up to you how you want to handle that and we can draft it in in however you'd like to handle it okay great I just wanted to get clarified on those two pieces right uh Council M Aton I think you would yeah um I I would be in favor of a regulation that prevented smoking and vaping I actually if you can't smoke or in public and you can't smoke indoors in Minnesota I don't know where you would but I would be willing to make That explicit here um yeah and I'm thinking about the events should we be looking at some events ordinances that other cities have to try to clarify some of that rather than us I think that's taking a basically in here or you feel like you already have done that Mayo has outed me I did not invent this out of whole CLA there are there are many other samples if you want a pile of samples I can give you several this one I think is a little bit oio and a little bit Oakdale I'm trying to remember um who where my inspiration came from um but yeah this is that that's what this is there are certainly um more robust ordinances and there are certainly less robust ordinances out there when I say that I guess I was referring to the debate about deposits and things like that right that that most of this I understand I appreciate that you have looked other things to help us round this out but one piece that isn't in there is some of the things then you're referring to say hey some cities do it this way for their deposits for any event so to look at that as a framing for any further discussion there without us sitting here with no reference point right Council um do we have any further explanation of what these what constitutes an event because I was like I mean are we talking a cannabis convention or are we talking about any music con concert where they decide to seek a cannabis event status so that it's permissible to utilize cannabis during that uh concert um council member St good question and I think the answer is yes I think it is all those things it is anything they go to the state for to get a cannabis event organizer license um it it's it isn't entirely clear to me when the states I mean I think what it would do is it would allow the sale and in some cases consumption of cannabis and cannabis products and are we indoor and outdoor Yes again okay so the thinking if you've ever been to a concert at First Avenue there's a lot of consumption happening there without a special events license you can smell it everywhere you go um council member strong I don't mean to interrupt it that would be you know so that's an example of a business that has a liquor license so they're going to be able to serve low potency hemp beverages at their concerts um but because they have a liquor license they would not be able to be a cannabis event there's no consumption of alcohol at cannabis events I don't know that these people are sanctioned but that's an enforcement question exactly they're wandering um I had another question about the um I would be in support of the nonsmoking events especially if we cannot uh we don't have any control or understanding of whether or not it would be indoor outdoor or what the purpose of the event would be um you know I think I appreciate the 30-day uh notice um I don't know if it has to be that long but I think notice is helpful for our staff to be able to be prepared um and I don't know I think that our hours of operation should follow our special events if they're outside and follow our bar policy if they're inside I would think or I think we definitely should have some hours of operation imposed you know I don't know house party would be fall fall under you know a a party 75 or more people they have an event permit so I think people would have to realize that they maybe would have to pull multiple permits or that would be the expectation if they were in that situation council member graph well the easy one is yes I would support the no smoking part of it that that makes sense um I do I am concerned about the size I mean would they be able to like rent The Oval for a any like this of course we would have control over that space since it's City owned and I think we had somewhere in here that it was not allowed on City owned property is that cor Parks that's one of the choices for you to makeo it's currently drafted because I'm not as concerned about a small event whereas like if you compared it to a wine tasting or something and there were 20 people but if we had 800 people coming it would C certainly overwhelm our services which of course would be another out for us because we could say that's just too much for our our services so I I think there are some built-in things but I those are the concerns that I came up with um mostly other than that the buffer I would not want that right next door to residential property I was trying to see with our regular events policy if we have something about um the only thing we have in there is about sound measured for hours of operation and hours of operation for for Amplified sound it doesn't look like the hours we don't have anything relate to just the event itself it's just that for Amplified sound we do have limitations on the hours which certainly would make sense um I was trying to find there there was something about thought there was something about a distance no I don't believe there is I think it was sound oh here we go okay notice to Property Owners on our regular event policy uh applicant shall provide a 10-day notice to properties within 500 ft of the event that the event is going to happen so that's presumably after they've been given the permission to do it so that's the only thing we have in our in our policy for just general events related to distance it's not really a buffer per se um I would tend to think that we would want to bring in anything related to Amplified sound that's in our event policy into our ordinance related to these events and hours and it says also um there's an hour an overall limit plus you can only do it for four hours at a time within that time frame so I think those are both good things to to bring in there I think I concur with the no smoking or vaping um what were some of the other ones um 30 days the 30 days you know um I think that's reasonable um and I wouldn't be surprised yeah I mean I think that uh that let's start with 30 and we can always shorten it if we need to I think if it's especially if it's a big event it's not like they're going to plan it within 30 days of it happening anyway or get the idea within 30 days of it happening anyway You' be surprised if people show up at the last moment saying we're going to do this event this coming weekend no doubt nope no doubt n um and that's a reason to say know right I'm once again I'm I'm unsure on the buffers um but I'm trying to think of how we you know because we these types of events especially if we don't have smoking or vaping um we don't have buffers for our other types of events that have Amplified sound we just have sound time limits and sound level regulations um do we need to do anything different with these types of events I'm not 100% sure especially if we don't have the smoking or vaping I just don't know so I need to hear more from council members on that council member we go in reverse I think you make a good point that if they're meeting or other things they have to have security they have to have controlled entrances it's not like they're like throwing gummies over the backyard fence of someone's he right so um so I think that there may be some question as to whether we need buffers um thinking about bringing in the event policy should that just be part of 31804 under permit application that that has to be completed or should we bring in the language and put it in here that would my question is whether we dump it all in here or whether we put a reference to that under 31804 our policy could change over time so is it would track with that if we do change that policy if we just make reference to it you mean right um but I would defer the City attorney what's stronger if we want to make sure we can enforce some things I would let me let me think about that there I generally struggle with the enforceability of a policy that stands beside an ordinance if that makes sense it it's you know an ordinance is an ordinance it's adopted by the council it expresses the will of the council and a policy is is a an administrative decision and it can never conflict with an ordinance it can supplement them sometimes but it shouldn't it shouldn't stand on its own if that makes sense so I suppose one way to do it if we were to make reference to it would be to say meet all these requirements and appropriate and in addition appropriate requirements under our event polic our general event policy maybe or or what I would do is I would use the um and thinking and talking at the same time can be dangerous but what what I would you do it all the time um what I would recommend maybe is is to put a provision into the ordinance that allows um allows imposition of conditions um you know at the discretion of staff and then obviously you're going to be held to a reasonableness standard that you can't just impose a random condition that doesn't have anything to do with the event but then staff could use the events policy to guide when and what conditions they would impose and there would be the ability to be consistent with what we've done with other events yeah and then your policy actually really supplements your ordinance and insures consistency is applied when the staff is exercising discretion right okay and certainly if there are certain things that are in our general policy that Mak sense to put into the ordinance specifically I don't think any of us have a problem with that and if it if in in the best Judgment of our attorney that's the recommendation by gum we're probably going to do it probably from strong I was just curious I mean there is reference to treatment facilities schools Park features we have indicated already prohibits use of city-owned property for events obviously um the school properties are not in our jurisdiction to make um I would assume we aren't going to make any type of sweeping um information about their services or their ability to um utilize the same uh event policy and the same cannabis ordinance but I don't will that we are if we don't specifically note it is there is there harming doing not making a specific notation of all these other items no as I said the reason that those definitions are here is so that we can have the conversation about whether or not you want to require a buffer from those uses and so if if you're not going to require the buffer I would just pull those definitions out because they're unnecessary but that raises the question though we we could not prohibit a temporary cannabis event on a school district property by city or ordance could we but does the state law approve it I don't know I'm just to kind of think this through mayor I think you could I there'd be arguments that you've overstepped um but in the same way that you can tell me that I can't hold I can't hold a concert in my backyard you know it's not property that you own but it it is within your jurisdiction to regulate how property is used so it may be overstepping but I think you might be able to do it right and I'm not saying we necessarily want to do that but I was just trying to understand sort of what what we're bumping up against here because I could imagine theoretically a school district a fictional School District could decide that an excellent fundraiser for their school Foundation might be a temporary cannabis event at one of their facilities I don't PTA fundraiser I bet it's a charter does this get though to the next section when we talk about zoning and just you wouldn't allow it on that way on school property on educational properties have we said anything about cannabis events in our zoning language no I would encourage you not to use your zoning code to regulate the location of cannabis events okay and we don't use that to regulate location of parties for instance on private property that's Poli Powers what you'd be doing is you'd be you'd be calling a zoning event a use and then you you raise the issue of whether once you've allowed it in a location you have to allow it there forever whereas if you just regulate it under your traditional police Powers you're not going to have that problem they would have to get an interim use permit to have every temporary event yes that sounds awesome our planting Department people are are bailing on it they're they're getting out their pitchforks all right um okay so on the events we've got some things that need to to be looked at and brought back as well so so can I can I give you my list to make sure I didn't forget sure sure sure um so I understand that you don't want smoking or vaping we'll work on hours of operation using the the current policy and then your noise policy as well um will add regulations about Amplified sound and we'll look at um including some language to impose license conditions which would then probably come out of your policy those are my notes on the events ordinance have I forgotten anything that 30-day piece I think we're pretty pretty okay with the 30 days 30 days was in there yeah did you want some sample language about about fees yes yes okay yeah definitely the other note I had and I don't know if it was talked about during buffers I was looking something up but there was one point brought up about prohibiting need events next to residential property OB somebody brought it up I don't know if it wanted to be Incorporated in if it wanted to apply only to an outdoor event versus an indoor event but that's the other note I had you didn't mention well I think our our policy on events does not have a limitation on it does not being next to Soy it it talks about notifying right you have to notify people with oh that was the other thing do you want to provide a 10day prior to notification like is currently in our events policy well that's once again do we leave it and refer to the events policy and make that a requirement there or do we bring it in from that policy into this ordinance council member I may or mayor Ro I may have misunderstood my understanding was that the notification requirement applied to Amplified sound or does it require all for any event for any special event any special event that we're permitting at the city over a certain number of people no there's no no limit well yeah I think that if it qualifies as a special event and it's being permitted by the city then there has to be that notification of people and the one of the key things with that notification was so that the people in the neighborhood understand who to contact if there's an issue or concern and what you know both whether it's at the city but also I think the organizer has to have a contact from the organ like you're having a any part dinner party for 20 you don't have to do something if you have a a reception in your backyard and for 50 or more people isn't it 75 we we don't I I don't believe we have any any number there if it's if it's outside if you're holding it inside it's just a sound it's the sound okay well yes but we issue special events permits for for large Gatherings that may not have so also what the impact to the neighborhood if you have all the cars there and the and the so how do you define a large Gathering well a they come to us if was like a wedding or they're going to have a retirement celebration they can put up a tent they need to get a tent permit it it it's imperfect okay you know um it's really we reach out uh if somebody comes to us um or they come to us and asking if there's any questions but whether or not there's other things that happen that are not Amplified probably okay I think that's just the reality of it yeah I was just looking at the policy it's uh it's not exactly clear as to what qualifies as a special event CU I remember the discussion on it and we had talked about a number people but I guess that got left out of it this is more related to the special do our special events have uh have language about having to adhere to the sign requirements no don't talk about signs at all okay I've just noticed that quite a few temporary or special events in the city you have all things in the city must comply with our sign code which was developed by in very skillful and knowledgeable hands when I was on the Planning Commission years ago a really a while back okay yes we can improve that sense and not to belabor the point uh Mr Mayor but I think I maybe bespoke so under our policiy these are exempt any graduation parties weddings or funeral Gatherings located on property that is used as a principal place of residence of the host of the event and the event does not have Amplified sound or music so we don't we do not require uh if they don't have Amplified it's when they do have Amplified music for those type of events for those types of events right okay there you go thank you all right thank you for finding that and Miss smoke all right have we covered the event ordinance then and given given miss tyrany a healthy assignment to work on get muddier all right zoning woohoo believe it or not this is the shorter of the ordinances of the three that we just talked about um so there's really not a ton of questions we have just because we did have a introductory conversation with the city council in September I think early September following a Planning Commission meeting that same month um the ordinance that's in your packet is the abbreviated version so we didn't put you know every single paragraph from every single affected section in this ordinance but just really briefly we Define all of the types of cannabis businesses that the state will license in the definition section um we have added the types of cannabis businesses in the mixed use District table of allowed uses so that's section 105.3 you'll note that obviously there are not permitted uses permitted and conditionally permitted you'll also see reference to a lot of footnotes and I want to note that these are requirements that are already in place for our limited production and processing and warehousing uses so they would apply to the similar cannabis uses but because we want it to be very clear that these apply we added the footnote and then we added it in a later section too so I just want to note that um we've also edited the table of allowed uses under Section 106.3 for our employment and Industrial districts um one note that did come up at the Planning Commission meeting that I just want to highlight is you'll see under cannabis Lounge in the industrial district that's listed as not permitted and that's simply because um retail isn't permitted in our industrial district so those micro businesses that would be able to do retail are not going to be able to do it in the industrial district and um I want to point that out um we also added um a couple of conditions into the conditional use section of the code um this is in section uh 109.2 paragraph D so the businesses that are conditionally permitted we added a odor mitigation requirement um and then we also added it added the trucking limitation again this isn't made up this is something that's already in place and we wanted to again be very clear this applies to those cannabis related businesses and then lastly that last section 111.2 paragraph e those all relate to the footnotes um we just wanted to spell it out more clearly this was presented to the Planning Commission uh this month um while they had a lot of conversation about cannabis in general they were pretty satisfied with the draft ordinance did not make any recommendations to the draft that's before you this evening and then I want to clarify um last time we were before you we brought you one big table with all of the businesses and how they would be allowed in the various um districts in this particular ordinance we had to break it up to match the zoning districts but what's in there reflects what you saw at your conversation on September 9th so that's really all we wanted to present on the zoning side of things um the city planner is here to help me address any questions related to the footnotes and how some of those things are already applied but the biggest question is do you have any changes on the not permitted permitted versus conditional and then are you satisfied with how we drafted the odor mitigation requirement for the conditionally permitted uses which are the combination businesses the cultivator V businesses and the transportation uses right thank you for presenting that uh questions or feedback from the council council member Aton I'm supportive of what you've done thank you I'll Echo that other thoughts okay I would Echo that too I agree right that's clear to me not only is it the shortest ordinance it's probably also the shortest conversation but the most impactful all right um we created a slide for some of the questions that came up I think we've touched on all of them except that third one which is how will ocm enforce the law we talked about this very briefly in the equity and inclusion toolkit that we provided in your ordinance because we already have had some experience in getting complaints and not being able to do much about them other than referring them to the state so that's all I want to say about the enforcement but of course the City attorney probably has a much better answer for it or if you have a specific question we can try to address it I don't know that's putting a lot of pressure on her to have a specific answer to it because she'd be speaking on behalf of the OC yeah way to sh her down yeah jeez well I was just giving her an out mayor R council members it is it it simply I think the ocm just isn't isn't up and running enough to understand what their what their enforcement mechanism are going to look like what I will say is there is a a section of the ordinance related to criminal penalties and for the most part and maybe that's underselling it it may be simply exclusively those criminal penalties apply to um businesses that are are are you the operation of cannabis businesses when we're talking about cannabis for personal use or something like that I'm not seeing criminal penalty in that ordinance or elsewhere in state law C wanted to um bring up question number two for events can access be controlled to ensure age compliance um as the Cannabis law is written to be for 21 plus is that implied or do we have to specifically outline that these cannabis events are 21 plus ccil member St great question those um state law requires that the cannabis event is 21 and over only and that they have a specific plan to regulate um age how are they going to control who gets in and then there's also a requirement on top of controlling who gets into the event itself that anyone that sells cannabis has to also verify the age of the individual that they're selling to okay so doesn't seem like there needs to be an added piece in there to discuss that or is that just a just to be sure I I think I think that for in this example I think that the state requirement is clear enough and then within the the your regulations of cannabis bus cannabis events temporary cannabis events you also require compliance with the state statute and I think that's enough for to cover those cover that base I think that's pretty parallel to our liquor ordinance too if I remember right we don't restate the age requirement in state law but we enforce it and we say the consequences for not enforcing it as a business or licy all right I think that gets us to the end of our cannabis discussion this evening I thank everybody again for their involvement including the the Planning Commission um and all the staff and and attorney work and we've got a few things uh that will be no doubt coming back to us for further discussions so stay tuned to that uh and uh I believe that gives us an opportunity uh to uh continue with our meeting although I'll check we're 10 minutes to our break time does the council want to take a short break or do you want to let's go proceed let's just keep going all right you had your chance all right with that then uh the next item on our agenda this evening is item 7 C which is uh bringing back a topic before the council just to give us an update and and perhaps seek Council feedback on uh the uh shopping cart issue uh at uh Snelling and B in Roseville and I'll turn it over back over to miss gunlock to bring this item before us uh thank you mayor members of the council uh my understanding is a council member asked for this to be put on the agenda staff wasn't quite sure what wanted to be talked about so we just put some background information together in your packet um I'm not going to present any of it uh Dave England our building official is here who uh his staff tries to do whatever we can related to the carts so between him and I we'll just address any questions you might have all right and can you just give kind of a brief outline of what our process is just for the members of the public may not be a to why don't you give a brief outline of how you handle complaints uh when we receive complaints uh related to carts especially at that location um we verify that they are there and then we contact each store individually um whose carts are observed there we give them 24 hours to remove them if they're not removed then we'll contact our vendor to remove them and then we charge them an administrative fee of $100 per cart and then whatever the vendor charges us to uh remove and dispose of those carts and to clarify I think the first time we did dispose of the carts that's really not sustainable so we've the second time the carts were brought back to the store but they were still charged for that effort um just so they weren't being rewarded for not picking up their carts but so it was $100 per cart plus the cost to gather them up and bring them back to the store okay thank you for clarifying that uh council member Aton are stores do stores seem to have a system of proactively gathering their carts on some sort of time frame or is this only when someone gets annoyed it seems that drive by that intersection that we don't end up with a 100 um so I'm I'm curious what you know about what these stores are doing looking at the numbers it's really around Target and cub and uh maybe you know smaller numbers of other businesses depending on kind of Cycles but what do we know I know Cub picks up their carts Monday Wednesday and Friday okay um Target is I don't know exactly what date but it's for sure on Wednesdays that they gather theirs the other carts that are on site from Goodwill to HomeGoods to Burlington it's much more infrequent those are the ones that tend to stay there the longest um but that's my opinion because they don't have the staff that the other stores have to dedicate just to carts um and a lot of it is that they just don't see them because they're at their store at their location they're not yeah viewing them there but but they have been the last couple of years very responsive to our requests coun strong thank you well I've brought this up a couple times because I have one person in particular who reaches out to me quite regularly specifically about this um as you may know uh HomeGoods is no longer in Harmar and it did look like they had a fairly large representation of the carts given the size and amount of sales compared to the others I think what this um something that else came to mind is in uh door knocking for campaigning the amount of people who live in the apartments who have shopping carts in their homes um one gentleman had about six I don't know how he had room to sleep actually because they were all different brands they were all different stores um and I was like oh what do you need those for and he's like you never know when I need them I was like oh okay so and they took the place of like a couch and you know he may be individual but I have seen other folks um just the other night I saw some folks with like a caravan of them um going down the street and I live right by harmer so you know I'm going to see them more than most folks um but I do note that Aldi at um on larpenter does have uh wheel locks on granted they had a more recent build than other locations I don't see that that Cub has um as many because they don't have the busing issues and stuff they don't see as many carts in that area um but I you know I I know that there are changing Technologies um some of the technologies have relied on like that invis invisible fencing which is pretty much impossible I for an existing business unless you're going to dig up the outside of your um parking lot but that there are the possibility of having Geo fencing um of course people figure a way to circumvent it if they want to lift it up carry it around whatever there are wheel locks um I just wondered if there was a possibility of us considering um requiring that on new builds or new businesses moving forward not retro not going back to people who already have them but if another business went in to say you have to have that I know that um I if you do a quick search it looks like half the world's talking about it right now um all of California is you know like there's five or six of them that have had it on their city council agenda in the last 5 days so it's very common um but I think what a lot of other folks and other people are seeing is there are no carts left in the stores for them to utilize and then some other cities have required that they use the quarter method like Aldi does um so it's interesting that Aldi utilizes the wheel locks as well as the quarter method um and I am one who never pays a quarter except for the one day when I was pouring rain and I found out that about the wheel locks but um I always only take what I can carry um but that you know that's also seen as a theft pres prevention method too is a people if they don't have the cart or they can't get it off the property I just want to know if obviously there's there's a lot of issues at play I know some of the people have mentioned you know it's convenient for uh people who are getting on the bus but I I I think I know in many stores in Minneapolis there are signs that say that carts belong to Target or um I did see some of the ordinances require that the carts do say this cart warning this cart belongs to this store and if you take it off property you are stealing or whatever but I just think we've there's a nuisance and it's everywhere it's not just here it's um but trying to look at various possibilities of ways I don't think I I love that it's convenient for people who maybe don't have a car or do use public transportation but I don't know that Target owes people who don't have a car um a free Transportation vehicle and maybe that's something that we could reach out to area nonprofits who could maybe help people get a grant for a cart or something if that's something they need to be able to utilize the bus but um I I would just like to find a way that these expensive fully plastic non-recyclable materials aren't just wedged into the woods um over by Rosebrook park there was quite a few over there for a while and I that's kind of a distance from those businesses and so trying to find a way that we can um have that be still a service that's available at the store doors but that they're not creating a public nuisance sometimes they're in the rway sometimes they're in the middle of the street they certainly don't look great and it makes the the neighborhood look like we just don't care even though um obviously Wednesdays is a long way from Sunday night when there might be 20 of them there and they're stacked up all different brands you know all different ones but sometimes they are in the middle of the street or you can't even get near the bus shelter um which is already kind of compromised because of the access so just trying to think of other ways and maybe considering if we could consider putting an ordinance in that new builds would require some type of mitigation not saying everybody who's out there but maybe just trying to think forward as we go on we don't have a lot of opportunities but when there's a new place new dicks or whatever just to say Hey you know everybody from here on in has to I because I don't think that's unique to us and I don't think it's something that's not being asked elsewhere cuz Minneapolis it's pretty common in a lot of their facilities that they have especially newer all of it I just blurted at out your sory other thoughts from Council Members related to the shopping cart issue I was somewhat factiously thinking that maybe we could uh combine two potential Solutions together and and figure out a way for uh folks that that uh are are on the street corner doing other activities to have some kind of Peace work payment to to retrieve carts since they're outside enjoying the weather anyway in that area but I'm not sure there's a real good mechanism for that but uh um and or an incentive built into that but uh but I you know it sounds like at least two of the larger retailers there are at least one of them more than once a week the other one once a week addressing the issue I mean you know I don't know I'm I'm not sure that it's so widespread of an issue in the city that we need to have an ordinance affecting all the businesses in the city but I'm not sure of the answer so that it's just a thought that's out there um maybe we just need to work more with our retailers especially in that area to figure something out maybe we work with the management company to see if that's something they can you know work with their tenants on and or even have some kind of you know obviously we can't force lease requirements necessarily but um I don't know other thoughts or staff thoughts council member Aton um one of the thing you brought up I think that we have to remember that we there's no perfect system here but the aine went in to allow people to have access to things and like Target or cub and get food and there's a significant percentage that we saw in the staff support people who are doing that um and so I think we want to make sure we are not creating a problem there I think it's big enough it's hard to say hey it's not a it's a thing we can just get a grant or get people to stop doing it it's just too much of a big thing I would be more in favor of working with these companies to make sure that maybe they have a more regular schedule or a more frequent schedule um it looks like the other place besides Target and Cub that have seemingly a lot of carts is HomeGoods not HomeGoods I'm sorry Michaels um which is a little confusing but you know um so that we maybe are going to them and saying hey you know this continues to be an issue U council's talking about more regulation we prefer you to step up your schedule what can you do for us I don't know I I think on a somewhat regular basis our staff does go out and remind the stores that they need to do this we we'll continue to do that I would also note this is the only location where there's a regular occurrence of cart collection I don't dispute that there might be a random cart here or there throughout the city but is it a problem regularly not that we see or ever receive complaints on it is solely this this corner my neighbor finds it to be a very big problem yeah I think we've both talked to him multiple times I have multiple neighbors some that never tell you anything so and I think it's because of the proximity to harmmer but I also think I guess I I I just think we could be more creative in how we look at it and not just say well we'll just kind of when you drive by it every morning and you see this large stack it just looks like nobody gives a rip about the neighborhood and it has a appearance that you know it doesn't it's not well attended and so I just think if we had a way somehow even if it was to look forward and say okay if another Aldi if we got our fourth Aldi in in Roseville or third but close um you know if they would maybe they would do it automatically but maybe if we you know had some type of suggestion or program or some kind of recommendation to how people could do that or you know we've talked so many times about how poor you know we we have all this poor in nonforest space and I mean how could we find a way to just build what we have and look forward some we are thinking ahead because if if that Harmar was filled with shops that all had carts that corner would be impossible I mean that there's hardly anything in haror so that saves them I one of the answers could be to actually have a cart Corral near each of the bus stops you know and it's at least you know a certain percentage of the population uses those when they're presented to them at stores not everybody um but that might help a little bit at least with the organization of it now it also it could also be looked at as an encouragement to use a cart and take it hey because they've got this neat place to put it um but if it's happening anyway at least it's yeah you know I don't know also that would keep them from drifting out into the traffic lane which doesn't happen and often but if it does it's a pretty dangerous thing you know because that is such a busy Corner well and if it could keep them on the one side right because that's just kind of like a you know it's it's just a strip of land between two roads there where the bus shelter is and there's not even a good um like entry point to it so it's really I don't know it's a it's a feat to get it in there so so some conversations maybe with the the management there I I didn't mean to jump on your what I didn't mean to interrupt you either mayor I just wanted to note um we have reached out to Metro transit to see if they would put a cart carral at the platform they're looking into it I was told there's only one other bus station in the Metro that has one and they said well it doesn't really work but we looked at that one and it's not at all comparable to our situation loc Al and after looking at the pictures and seeing the situation she agreed to look at it and get back to me I she hasn't gotten back to me yet but we are investigating that just because State County Roads the city doesn't have any Authority we tried to work that into The Pedestrian study with some future uh intersection Improvement designs and that didn't go anywhere because me that wouldn't entertain it so I just went right to Metro Transit and so we we're attempting that and we think we could good idea uh we could pull our met Council representative into it as well potentially I I would let's see if we can get somewhere with the staff first because they are talking to me about it so I just sent a follow-up question today for an update I haven't gotten anything back yet but thank you we are looking into that all right more on this to come no doubt but uh looking forward to hearing what that response is and what else uh we might be able to do all right that then brings us to uh consideration of city council minutes we have um a couple of sets of minutes from strategic planning sessions uh as well as our minutes from the October 7th regular council meeting are there any uh changes or Corrections that need to be made to any of those minutes uh prior to approval or is there a motion related to approval of those minutes I move approval of those second I can we split them please oh we need a do an abstention on one or more okay which one should we split out uh the the 11th the 11th okay so do we have a motion on then the September 25th special meeting and the October 7th council meeting is that what uh thank you by seconded by schroer to approve the September 25th and October 7th minutes as presented any discussion on that motion hearing none all those in favor signify by saying I I I opposed that passes unanimously those minutes are approved then we have the minutes of our October 11th uh strategic planning session special meeting is there a motion on those Mo second been moved by council member Aton seconded by council member Scher that shrug was just because I wrote the wrong letter for your initials no other no other editorial comment there meant uh uh discussion on the motion this is once again to approve the October 11th special meeting minutes hearing no discussion all those in favor signify by saying I I I opposed uh abstentions obain uh one abstention from Council M ston I'm barely keeping it together here all right those pass four to zero then without that one exstension that brings us to our consent agenda Mr Tre if you'd give us a brief outline of those thank you Mr Mayor fairly short uh consent agenda item 10A approves payments the amount of 2,296 3718 item 10B approves purchase of five uh police department Mark Vehicles as part of our vehicle replacement program this request is part of the 2025 uh CIP but uh due to the long lead time to receive the vehicle staff is requesting approval of the purchase now item uh 10 C receives the quarterly Grant applications update to date the city has received $1.3 million in awarded Grant funds item 10d accepts grant funding in the amount of 250,000 to fund the Personnel cost for of a temporary staff position to lead the police department's accreditation process this process is expected to take up to two years once the position's work is done the ACC accreditation manager position will be eliminated then finally agenda item 10e accepts $100,000 in grant funding from the state of Minnesota to provide financial support for the training and and education of candidates looking to transition from another career to become a police officer this amount will fund two candidates tuition and salary and that is the consent agenda all right thank you Mr Tren is there a motion on the consent items as presented so moved second right it's been moved by council member gra second by council member St excuse me discussion on that motion thank you for going on and get these grants pry amazing and they really provide us Great Value Police Department is doing a great job that all right we have the motion before us all those in favor signify by saying I I opposed that passes unanimously those items are approved uh that then brings us to uh future agenda review Mr Tran yeah and I would uh note this is slightly different from what's in your packet we had some shifting here so um just a reminder uh this Thursday we have our strategic planning uh second session from 3:00 to 7: or in the Fireside oval room on the fourth uh we have several items at a regular council meeting um donations uh from the uh to the Rosal Parks and Recreation Department and also U recognition of their accreditation and re accreditation we'll also be discussing the 25 fee schedule and the utility rates and also be looking at the city council and Ed meeting calendar on November 12th uh I think in the packet is said November 8th which is that Friday we learned today from the county will'll be getting uh the final report sometime on the 8th which is a Friday so in order to make sure we have until the 13th November 11th is uh Veterans Day so November 12th I put 12 noon down but it really can be anytime so I think the council should maybe discuss one would be a good time for uh at least the quorum to um certify those um canvasing of the general election result results uh the following uh day we would have our third session for strategic planning we're still uh looking for a location we do have one park building Reserve I I talked to the facilitator today and we're going to check to make sure that's the appropriate uh location so stay tuned for that on the 25th you may have noticed in the thing in the packet we thought we were going to try to have have a special Eda meeting on the 4th uh the housing study uh information just won't be ready by that point so we do want to hold that on the 25th uh this is the housing study just to check in a little bit and uh we'll look to approve that calendar and then at the regular meeting we'll have the public hearing for the city uh and Eda Levy we'll look at the canvas ordinances again uh begin the discussion legislative priorities um then also receive an update on the Parks and Recreation natural resources management plan and then we h slew of business license approvals for the start of the year so those El liquor licenses and pretty routine stuff so we'll be having it November 25th and the December 2nd meeting as well and that is the future agenda all right thank you uh Mr treas questions on the future agenda or items council members wish to add council member shorter um I am not available on the 12th at noon I just want to make sure this going to be enough you going to be there to certify are you available at 6 PM that night and whatever time you you think is the council M are you available that evening let me just pull that up again um the 12th yeah it'll be a FIV minute meeting um yeah I could yeah definitely um I could do a six p.m. yeah I have a me I have uh something at 7 so if it's as quick I could do it it's very quick it is I know I do maybe five minutes yeah so unless the mayor decides to exp that would worth better never happens yeah at those meetings does that work for other council members to do the 600 p.m. time frame on the 12th be fine mhm all right that sounds like when we'll do that special meeting then any other dis any other items related to Future agendas or reports and announcements Communications I know everybody's entering an appointment into their calendar now um I I'll take advantage of that and I'll say the only thing left on our agenda is Mayor ra a journal no adjournment I should say it's so moved second all right it's been moved by council member m gra in between typing second of by council member shorter in between typing uh all those in favor of the motion to urance since there's no discussion signifi by saying I I I opposed that passes unanimously and we are adjourned at 8:14 p.m. thank you everyone wanted to get that time e e